RANTING/COMPLAINING ABOUT MOOCHES: CHAPTER 20!!!

The end of the year approaches...

Lives are hectic....

Tempers are shorter....

Wallets are thinner....

But still we mooch onward....

and grit our teeth at the challenges this mooch-life hands us...

Here's to smoother mooches!!!

First one here...with no Mooch complaint

wot?

;-}

From the thread just closed:

Message 200: Conachair
Maybe this is me, but I think it is pretty rude of someone who apparently isn't to diligent in sending out requested books, and who doesn't meet the dates for sending he promised to keep sending reminders for book HE apparently wants. I always thought you should behave the way you want people to behave toward you. Or am I too optimistic ?

I have been waiting for one book for over three months. The person I mooched from has 30, yes 30 mooches on delayed status. Yet, she blithely mooches on, sending reminders to people after a month.

I reported her as an abuser at least a month ago, but apparently she wasn't abusing the system enough.

Can someone explain "forced receive" to me?

I think a book someone has sent me has been lost (I requested it August 4th), but can't yet mark it as lost.

On the other hand, a book I had requested August 11th has been marked received by sender, even though I haven't received it yet.

When can you start force-receiving stuff? I have two other books missing, I want to mark them as lost before losing points again. Apparently I have to wait until freaking December. Can the senders force-receive them sooner than December if they've "reminded" me?

I understand the concept of force-receive when a member has gone AWOL or has a suspicious history, but I think I'm a good BM member, I send books on time, I always mark books received, asap, I smooch more than generously... so I'm really not a happy camper right now over this.

#4: ok, Spinifex, let's say that I sent you a book & it has taken a long time to get to you... I think too long.

So, I send you a reminder to mark it received. It is an automated message, not one that I write. (I think)

After six weeks, a button appears on my pending page saying force received.

OR

A button appears after a certain time period (I think 3 months for international) that allows you to mark the book lost.

I think I've got both of these correct, but others can add to make both descriptions sound clearer.

Good Luck!!!

I push that button.

I think part of this problem stems from the fact that you can "remind" someone about receiving a book immediately after it's been marked sent. Since this is the case I surmise that you can use that fact to get around the extended "lost" period for international books, though I don't know for sure since I have never tried to do so. Personally I think that that 'remind' button also shouldn't show up until after 3 or 4 weeks to prevent this kind of thing. Reminding after only a week or two is a little obnoxious anyway.

6: Hmm, that's a good point. I get those annoying reminder-right-away sometimes, but I never thought about what that meant regarding force-recieve.

Spinifex, have you emailed them to make it clear that you haven't recieved the book? A good BMer would probably apologize for the mistake if they find out you actually haven't gotten the book yet. And be sure to leave your own feedback about the transaction, saying it was forced-recieved even tho you are an active member and haven't recieved the book.

I had two of these 'reminders' recently - and I find them insulting and offensive and very worrisome as they importantly do start the 'force-received' option. I know, I know; there has to be a certain time before it can marked - but they start it.

What's more, IMHO, they remove (in most member's minds) the need to actually personally communicate with the said member, or check their personal history. I always reply to the ones sent to me with a query as to why they felt the need to remind me when I obviously mark books received when they are! The latest answer was that he always sends a reminder to everyone at a certain point even though he knew it often took longer for books to reach my country, never checks their history (doesn't have time) and it was 'his system' etc - Whhha-a-attt!!!? Oh, and the book arrived the day after his reminder - proving just how necessary that one was - and vindicating my annoyance.

Personally I find them plain and simply rude; especially when they just arrive out of the blue and well before I am expecting to receive the book. I never send a reminder unless I have emailed the member at least twice and had no response.

It is understandable if a member hasn't been active for ages; it is understandable when a member has so much red on their history that your eyes hurt when looking at it; it is totally acceptable when it is well and truly past the time the book should arrive plus a few months; and justifiable if your emails remain unanswered...
But your experience Spinifex exemplifies all I find wrong with this present system.

ETA: and as it cannot be reversed, you lose the opportunity to get your points back if the book is genuinely lost. So points paid for no book. Not good!

I even looked among my emails and cannot find the reminder. I never trash emails of unfinished mooching, heck, I even have the reservation for the book.

I emailed her and she told me to contact BM about it... I don't know if it will do much good for getting my points back.

I know it's just 2 points, but I'm annoyed. I'm not stingy, but in this case losing them smarts.

Unfortunately Spinifex, there must have been a formal reminder sent to allow an eventual force-received; but it may be in a spam folder - like many of BM emails.

There is also a definite time-constraint regardless of when the reminder is sent - a certain amount of time must elapse from the original sent notification depending on whether it is a local or international mooch - and I think skittles has the time frame correct - or very close.

As well, now, the reminder appears under the transaction but I'm not sure if you can see it on your pending - I can see them on other members' pages - but it would be good to see them on my own pending so I can mark a book 'lost' before it gets marked 'forced-received' and I lose my points for a book which hasn't arrived! I made a note to myself and kept the reminder so I would know when six weeks from that reminder had elapsed - though I was hoping my email made then consider communicating with me before they did so. But both these books arrived well before so it was moot.

I had my first send marked 'lost' just recently *sad* and after some emails back and forth and a reminder on my part I informed the member I would not do anything more, and she should mark it lost after six months (as it was sent air mail it had been lost) which she did and got her points back.

I would contact admin but I think I have seen a reply from Mark mentioning that the points have to be sorted between the two involved members - and yours doesn't sound helpful in this regard. :(

ETA: and you have every right to be upset IMO - you don't have a book you 'paid' for... and losing a book is bad enough without losing the points as well!

OK - found this on the wiki: here is the time-frame for lost books and I think the time-frame for forced-received may be the same ...

eta: but I think you have to wait for a certain time to elapse after you have sent a reminder (which now appears under the book) and before the 'received' button appears - I know it is six weeks for international in my experience, and despite what others say, it is from the first reminder and regardless of any more reminders sent. It used to reset after each reminder but not any more - in my experience any way.

thanks Lman!

I'm not sure if you can see it on your pending - I can see them on other members' pages - but it would be good to see them on my own pending so I can mark a book 'lost' before it gets marked 'forced-received' and I lose my points for a book which hasn't arrived!

You can't see on your pending when you have been reminded - I know that because I've been "reminded" for another book and I'm communicating on the subject with the book sender, but it doesn't appear on my pending page.
You're right, that's absolutely something that should appear, along the lines of "You've been reminded x days ago".

12: You can see on the other person's pending page though. I know it's tedious, but it's an option when you're concerned about specific books.

That's weird, because I could definitely see on my pending page when I'd been reminded about a book the other month. Maybe it was because I had sent them a reminder first when they weren't responding to my mooch request? It said "you reminded them {X time} ago" and then had "they reminded you {X time} ago" as well.

I finally ended up marking lost the book I got an early reminder for that I've been ranting about across three threads now. I made a note in Google Calendar of when the book was sent so I could mark it lost right away. I didn't want to loose my point for a book I never received because I had a feeling the sender would try to force receive. All but two of the books she sent at the same time arrived quickly so I don't know what happened to my book and the other person's book. What really made me angry about the whole thing was that she took forever to accept and mail, then reminded me a few days after sending, then we communicated, but she reminded me again after I had told her I would mark it received if I received it. I've used force receive a few times for people who have disappeared from BookMooch, but I think it sucks when active members have their lost books force received on them.

I've had to mark two books lost recently and have a third this month from a member who joined, said they sent a few books six weeks ago that haven't been received (including mine), and then went AWOL.

I'll email the book owner one last time, and frankly, if we can't find an arrangement, I'm leaving negative feedback.

.

I tried...really I did. We are a little short on cash flow right now but I am just as much addicted to sending books as I am at receiving them. I don't even need the points but I can't stop myself. I love sending books to people who really want them. On the flip side, I get a rush when I get a wishlist hit and am able to successfully mooch it even though my bookcases are overflowing into boxes which are filling closets. Thank goodness for LT or I wouldn't even know what I have at this point.

I have given up on trying to control this addiction. I don't drink, do drugs, eat uncontrollable or mainline coffee all day. This is my only vice. There are worse things in the world.

eta** edited for grammar

I think my best attempt lasted for almost two weeks. That was just not mooching, though... I don't think I've actually been able to stay off the BM website for more then 2 or 3 days. I sometimes try to only mooch off my wishlist, and not mooch random books that I come across, but it's so haaaard!

I have learned to step back from a potential mooch for an hour or so (unless it's highly wishlisted), just to be sure I actually want it. For awhile there I was doing a lot of spontanious mooching and ending up with books I didn't really want.

Honestly, I think I could go a lot longer in between mooches if it weren't for LT. LT has become my top source for finding new books that I want to read.

.

>8 Lman:

I find the (standard) text and formulation of the reminders, including the usage of the exclamation mark offensive and bordering on rude.

>21 edwinbcn: I really, really hate that we can't modify that text. You can't even see what it says, just that you're sending someone a reminder. I feel like the text of the reminder to mark received is trying to sound personable, but it is not quite there.

I am fairly positive I remember that we *used* to be able to modify the message. I have never understood why it was changed and why we can't even see what the message we are sending says.

Accck! Why o why do I torture myself? I got an email from pbs that my wish had been granted for the 1st ed of The Clan of the Cave Bear and of course I have no credits and all my spare monies have to go towards shipping my pending mooches. meh! I should just close that dang account. It's torture I tell you!

>17 I-_-I:/20

Two weeks. Right now I don't have much incoming (well, I mean, not much as long as you count 40 books from 2 people as 2 mooches, which I do, because I *have a problem*) but I have very much curtailed sending out simply because I had too much on my plate.

5 weeks ago I took a 2 week break which was followed by a record 2 weeks to make up for it and now I'm in slow time. I think it's just that I've had to focus all my online time on shopping for presents.

#24 Hugs Tani :-(

24> Since it is the holidays and I am trying to control my hoarding tendencies, I am offering up my 1st Edition copy of Clan of the Cave Bear (which I will probably never read again) for your mooching pleasure. It is in very good condition. The dustjacket has some wear but it is in a mylar cover.

Now turn that frown upside down, lady!

Awww #27 that is a beautiful gesture. :)

*warning: controversial topics, religion, homosexuality....*

I.... don't really know where else to post. This is a rant/cry, but not about BM. I just... need to be around friends right now. And please, I don't want to start any kind of religious debates with this. I just... I just need to get it out, need to be here around friends.

A one-on-one meeting the my mom's pastor (this was her idea, NOT mine) ended with me crying uncontrollably and taking 3 anxiety pills as soon as he left. Lots and lots of uncontrolable crying.

I'm a lesbian and I don't "flaunt" it like my mom sometimes says, but I am comfortable with myself and I don't feel guilt or regret and I certainly don't feel sinful for being the way I am. But in that little half hour I was told, over and over, that I am *not* really a lesbian and it's just the devil telling me that, and if I go with God I'll be able to fight my way away from it and.... Well, anyways. Basically I had to sit there for a half hour feeling like this horrible sinful person, listening to all of that, and I just... I have *never* felt that way before. I have never faced an actual homophobe that way, had to listen to words like that...

And it hurt. Not because I believe them, because I don't. I don't belive that the devil made me a lesbian, and I sure don't believe this is a choice I've made (seriously? why would I *choose* to have all this hatred and phobia directed at me??) ......

But it hurt. And it upset me soooooo much, and I just.... I just needed to get it out. If this is an inappropriate place to talk about this sort of thing, I'll understand if someone moves or deletes it. I just.... needed to get it out, to my friends.

*Squealing like a schoolgirl* You all Rock! It is so awesome to be a part of a group of people with such generous spirits. I absolutely adore all of you. *sniff*

Thank you, Heather!

Awwwwww!!!!! Bella! Thank you so much! You are my hero! Another sweet angel has offered to swap a credit for a bm point (before I came back to the thread) and I have already ordered it. My cheeks hurt from smiling! I LOVE this place!

♥♥♥!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Heather19}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

♥ tc

>29 Heather19:: Heather19

I am so very, very sorry. It's horrible that your mom and her pastor were so hurtful. Please do vent whenever you need to.

:( You'd think that the coming holiday season would encourage family love and togetherness, not confrontation.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{****Heather****}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I am sorry you had to go through that. I wish I could give you a real hug right now.

That totally sucks.

30> Well, if it falls through for some reason, let me know.

#33 - Thank you, Bella!

Sounds like an awful experience, Heather :(. If the pastor was presenting what he believed was a biblical view, he is misinformed on a couple key points. I would love to go into it more, but this probably isn't the place. If you ever care to hear what the Bible actually teaches about homosexuality, I'd be happy to look into it with you.

In the meanwhile, hugs all around!

29> Arghh. I hate that sort of thing. I'm Christian, raised Catholic, but also raised to think for myself and to judge people as individuals, not by 'what' they are. It's not quite at the level of the sexual abuse, but it's the same sort of thing - someone who is supposed to be loving and supportive to _all_ his 'flock' is emotionally abusing one of them (and I don't care if you don't go to his church (why (in God's name!) would you?), if he's your mother's pastor you're part of his flock. Or at the very least he should be teaching her how to be supportive of her family, not destructive).

He needs to read the Bible some more - the New Testament, not the Old. Jesus' words, not Paul's, either.

#29 Heather, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I've had similar experiences (on different subjects) so although I don't know exactly what you're going through I know it feels really horrible.

I'm a BookMooch newbie but a longtime LibraryThinger and...a card carrying lesbian (did you know that we have a club?).

Anyway, I was raised in quite a Catholic family and still feel like my relationship with God is important to my everyday life, despite my many issues with the Catholic Church. If you want to get this off the list, send me an email at cms519@yahoo.com and I'll be glad to chat with you a bit about it. I fell in love with my best friend at age 15, came out to my parents when I was in college (ages 19-20), and now live with my partner of nearly 12 years (I'm now 32). My parents have found a way to make it work despite the issues with their faith (that they believe in an all-loving God certainly helps).

On a book topic, I found Portia de Rossi's new memoir, Unbearable Lightness about her eating disorder really interesting-- and her experiences with her mom's acceptance (or lack thereof) of her sexuality was really interesting to me-- and the closest to my own experience that I've ever encountered.

Hang in there, Heather. Don't let the muggles get you down!

Oh, Heather. What a crappy thing to have to go through. I'm so sorry that happened to you. :(

we love you Heather!! Just consider us your "family" and put that terrible experience behind you. I am proud to know you, to know that you are brave enough to be just who you are and whether or not you are gay or straight is totally irrelevent in the overall scheme of things. You are a very nice person and that is what count for me!!

Hugs Heather. I'm not sure what else to say aside from you have my support (and I hate homophobia).

Heather,

I am so sorry you had to endure that. At a recent party with friends I ran into this particular combination of topics. I am not a lesbian but I respect those who are. I have many homosexual friends and some who a bi-sexual. I was raised roman catholic, and like those above I was taught to think for myself. I personally believe that those who learn through life experiences that they are homosexuals were born the way they are. God (which ever one you believe in) created you as you are. He or She has given you a hard road to walk along, and I hope that you know you are never alone.

I spent an hour arguing that God accepts those with different sexual orientations as they are because he is an all loving God. I agree with you when you say why would you "choose" to walk this path. I used it as one of my arguments with those who choose to join the disscussion.

I finally gave up when I realized that they were never going to listen. I left them with a small word of advice, "would you love your child, the one you created in love, any less just because one day they came to you and said they were in love with a person of the same gender." The responce I got was a silence I've never herd before. It certinally gave those I were speaking to pause.

One last note of the changing times. 10 years ago when I was in 12th grade I attended a school dance (a catholic high school). One of the couples at the dance were two young men who had been dating for a little over a year. The entire school was very accepting, and the young men danced together for every slow song. I thank God for introducing me to all of my friends of differeing orientations, they make me a stronger, better person and friend. If you ever need someone to talk to please feel free to message me. I may not know what you are going through but I am willing to be a sounding board and a friend.

~ Missy

I'm so, so sorry, Heather. My thoughts are with you. I can only imagine what this must be like. I know I've been through the wringer given much less homophobic incidents. I'm so very, very sorry that you had to sit through that, and I'm even more sorry that your mother was involved. It makes it so much worse when the people engaging in the abuse know without question they are in the right and you're just being sensitive or trying to avoid hard truths. I'm so sorry. Like cms519, please private message me know if you'd like to talk or rant off-list.

I sent two Priority Mail flat rate envelopes with angel mooches in them on the same day to the same person in Egypt. One arrived promptly (fortunately, it was the one with several books in), the other (contained one large book) has still not shown up more than a month later :(

That will be my first book sent overseas gone lost.

*huggles everyone SOOOOO much* Thank you all. I had a feeling I was among friends here.

I do feel better (after a calming nap). And I didn't mean to hijack to thread! Oops!

*commence on-topic-ness*

In BM-related news, I've finally gotten through to the complaint department for USPS... Ie, I'm "going over their heads" 'cause the local office obviously isn't doing anything about my complants. I recieved another "bent and shoved in the box, damaged while being shoved in" package Saturday. So yes, I'm going higher and higher until it actually gets dealt with.

Heather - my own niece Heather is a lesbian who just married her girlfriend in October in a BIG ceremony with both in white with flowers and a minister and the whole big deal. Her brother stood up with her.

My sister and her husband, Heather's mother and father, did not attend because of their religious beliefs. It stunned me and obviously hurt Heather and Amber.

I do not discuss this with my sister anymore because she still thinks Heather can be "cured". She loves Amber and they socialize with "the girls", but she just couldn't bring herself to attend her daughter's wedding. I do not understand it and never will understand it. Sigh. You just can't change people like that. I have found that it's not worth trying.

I'm so glad you're strong in your belief in yourself. Hang in there. You're loved and cared for here.

Oh Heather, what a nightmare for you! Yes, you are among friends here, and we like you the way you are!

First time commenting here, looking for some advice.

I mooched an international book on the 21st October. The owner accepted almost immediately, and set the postage to be "in a week". I haven't heard a thing since. A few days ago, I sent a reminder, but I haven't heard back from that either.

I am aware that I have yet to even give this BM user a month, however firstly, they did say they would send within the week. Secondly, looking at their history, other people from my country have mooched from this user since I did, and have given feedback saying they have received their books.

Interestingly, the user's current stats stand at: Pending mooch/give: 211/105. Perhaps they have bitten off more than they can chew? I am normally very patient, and don't mind waiting, but I like to be told that much, rather than be told it'll be sent within a week and then hear nothing more, whilst other books to my country are obviously being sent.

Am I over-reacting, or should I email/cancel?!

#48 Looking at their pending page (which took a while!) of the 105 books which are pending for them to give the majority have been marked as sent with 40 or so still to send.

As you say it looks like they are sending books out which I think means they are probably more likely than not to send yours at some point although it's frustrating that they won't let you know when. I'd be much more worried if they hadn't sent any books for a while and had a string of people cancelling.

Ultimately, I suppose it depends how much you want that book and whether it's likely to be offered by someone else while you're waiting for this moocher to send it? I'd probably hang on for a while longer myself but it does depend if you've got points to spare. But if the book is listed by someone else and you still haven't heard from the original owner I'd cancel and mooch the other copy.

And welcome to the BM group :-) I can see we have quite a few books in common on our wishlists!

>48 clearillusion:
Your reminder may be not getting through - from the accept email (if you hopefully kept it) will be their email address - I would try another nice message using this, asking them if they would be so kind and give you an update on this mooch? Otherwise I would send a personal email through their BM profile page.

I have mooched from this member, with no problems, and I would say the mooch will get sent - but if you are worried about when, a nice message may help you to find out. Really, it is not too much to expect, but I think there is a system happening here. :)

And I echo souloftherose - welcome!

>48 clearillusion:-50: I've mooched from him too. The book arrived in good time, but was totally inadequately packaged and was very badly water damaged (and still damp). Another book he sent at the same time to someone else (another country) was also water damaged. I also remember that he doesn't communicate.

Another thing to consider is that most of his books have BookCrossing stickers on the front cover, which has resulted in people giving negative feedback because he doesn't use condition notes. So if that bothers you, I'd cancel the mooch.

edited for clarity

51: Er.... Has anyone contacted admin about this person? If he doesn't communicate, packages inadequitely, AND has book defects with no condition notes, it sounds like maybe he needs to be gently schooled on BM policies/expectations. That would PISS ME OFF if I mooched from him and didn't know these things.

>51 crimson-tide:: I mentioned the water damage and packaging in my feedback and also sent him a polite email about it, to which I received no reply.

It's strange, 'cos he also has lots of positive feedback, including comments like "well packaged". It appears to be somewhat random. Weird!

I personally wouldn't consider those sorts of things enough to contact admin about. They'll only tell you to communicate with the other member directly . . . ;-)

edited this time for a typo!

>49 souloftherose:-51: Thank you for all your responses! Looks like I'm over-reacting a little! I've added the book back to my wishlist, but will keep on waiting until someone else offers the book!

I'm not sure what to do about a situation I've just discovered. I had someone request a book from me and I accepted. I emailed the moocher a few times to see if they wanted a second book since I have the sequel to the book they requested. Then out of curiosity, since I hadn't heard back, I checked their account and it's a sea of red. They had requested a bunch of books and canceled most and they are rejecting everything that got requested from them, saying they can't afford to ship. Should I reject this mooch and is that okay to do?

>55 Quaisior: I think the procedure is to delay and contact abuse, but as for how long or what happens if nothing changes I don't know.

>56 macsbrains:, Thanks, I've delayed and contacted abuse.

Man, two zip code problems for me in only a few weeks...

I've been on vacation, so I had a number of books to ship that were delayed. I was getting one packaged up today when I noticed their zip code had one too many digits!

This one I looked up since I was already delayed getting it out, but I included a note in the Sent message indicating they should fix that.

*sigh*

I think this time I may actually *have* to step back from BM, whether I want to or not.

My mom's new job is not working out... long story, but the short of it is basically it's a new company that doesn't know what the hell they are doing, and mom is getting really stressed about it, and it's starting to affect her mental state, and I will NOT let her get sick again just because of this stupid job. It obviously isn't the job for her.

But there are precious few other jobs available around here, and out of those, none that mom can do or qualifies for. We are working on it, applying everywhere she can, but.... yeah.

Things are SO stressful right now, and the fact is that the $25 that I have right now for BM shipments really should be saved for when mom ends up leaving this job. Same for the $25 that will go for the December shipment. I just... I feel like CRAP because I don't want to let anyone down, I have a lot of pendings, and...

I'll get the pendings out, eventually. But I don't think I'll be accepting anymore mooches until things get better. I thought it *was* getting better, mom finally had a job... But no.

Sometimes I really, really hate life. (*ahem* that statement was made by a stressed bipolar individual who is off her meds and flailing, it should not be taken as any indication of suicidial thinking. thank you. *ahem*

♥s & hugs {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Heather}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} !!

So earlier in this thread I mentioned that it was odd that I had sent two packages Priority Mail Flat Rate Envelope to the same person in Egypt on the same day, but they only got one of them.

Well today I got the second package back! There's some writing on it in Arabic or whatever, and on the back is an English sticker that says, "Did not attend."

I interpret that to mean the receiver never picked it up, but since they did pick up their other package, I assume the mistake is on their local post office. But of course there is nothing I can do about that, I will just have to re-send.

I told the receiver to mark the book as lost, then I would re-list and they could re-mooch. I assume that was the correct thing to do? If they had put a bad address, or otherwise been negligent, I'd be inclined to try something else, but in this case, I know that neither one of us did anything wrong!

Awww, Heather... that is a rough week for you. If you ever need to talk, feel free to email me (danikaellis@gmail.com). It's tough stepping away from Bookmooch (I miiisss iiittt), but when you have to, you have to. I hope everything works out, and hopefully a better job will come along once your mom leaves this one. Take care of yourself (and your mom). Bookmooch will be waiting here for you. :)

I love you all, yunno that? *hugs*

62: Hmmm. Yeah, if it was neither of your faults, the best thing would probably be to... well, just what you said. lol Hope this time things go smoother!

(Stepping away from BM will, obviously, not mean stepping away from this group.)

62:
I had a very similar experience when I sent a parcel to the Middle East - they also returned it and said undeliverable / wrong address or something to that effect, from what we could figure out. They sent it back by slow mail too even though I had used air mail - it took 2 months to get back to me - though that may have been fast for all I know.

I was really lucky because I went to my P.O. and told them the story, and they even knew about it as I had posted it from there. They sent it back (free) for me in an official bag and with the same address on theirs - and funnily enough it arrived back at its destination in three weeks and WAS deliverable this time. I fear it is the foibles of sending mooches to some places...

I didn't think to do what you did - what a good idea!

>65 Lman:

Hmm maybe I can talk to my postmaster tomorrow and see if there is any way I can get it redelivered at no cost. My guess is no, but it's worth asking!

Two months might be the shortest time (almost) it takes sea mail, in my experience (from the UK anyway), so that is probably what I'd call quick for sea mail. I've had sea mail coming to me take 2 to 2.5 months (from UK) to 3.5 months (first mooch from Canada, but most take 2-2.5 months from there too).

67: I was just bemoaning about how long it took to arrive back; who knows how long it sat there before they did finally send it back. I just felt, with all the difficulty that I had, they probably threw it on a ship. As it usually takes six months for sea mail to this country (I have now found out) and as you say bookel, they may have actually sent it back by air. :)
I should just be grateful I got the books back - there were three in the parcel - and they did eventually arrive safely. I was very pleased about that - I can't tell you how much.

66: Well, it will be worth trying. I was so surprised when the manager offered to do this - but I go there with all my parcels so they know me well. Very well. :-) And they are so very nice too! I went back and told them about the ultimate success of the 'operation' and thanked them profusely and they were very pleased to hear it had worked out.

Okay... meh. I get frustrated about reminders, sometimes. I'm well aware that media mail often *is* delivered in a timely manner, but I'm also aware, as I'm sure most BMers are, that it's not uncommon for media mail to take 4-6 weeks or longer to get to it's destination.

Which is why I get a little peeved when I get a reminder to mark a book recieved after 2 1/2 weeks... and then, in response to my polite email saying that I haven't recieved the book yet, I get a forwarded PayPal confirmation where it says that media mail will only take 2-9 days. WHAAAA?? This shipping website/method/whatever is definitely misleading this poor moocher. I sent another polite email, explaining that media mail usually takes anywhere from 2-6 weeks and I have no idea why it would say 9 days, and that BookMoochers have learned not to worry about media mail for at least 6 weeks, and I will tell her when it arrives.

So I guess it's not her fault, but really, 2-9 days?? The USPS website itself says longer then that!

I've actually had a Media Mail book arrive in 2 days. Ridiculous! That is, I sent it Media Mail, and two days later the moocher marked it Received and commented on my packaging. I agree that 4-6 weeks is far more common, and the timespan that reminders should be based on. But MM is sometimes actually faster than 1st class (rarely, but sometimes).

lman, yeah that doesn't seem fair to send back by sea when it was sent by air!

>69 Heather19:

If they used PayPal, why didn't they just check the delivery confirmation? Or give you the tracking number to "prove" (ahaha AS IF it always works) that the book arrived? So strange!

#69: Send a link to the USPS website that says that.

and if they are using paypal postage, they will have a tracking number!

Yeah, I thought of that. There was a tracking number in the forwarded email, I tried it, but it only says

"The U.S. Postal Service was electronically notified by the shipper on November 04, 2010 to expect your package for mailing. This does not indicate receipt by the USPS or the actual mailing date."

Wait, isn't that the message that normally happens before the departure scan? Maybe they should take a look and make sure the package isn't lying around somewhere . . .

or it was printed on an inkjet (not a good printing) or if there was a problem with the tape on top of so it isn't easily scanable.

My post office will hand enter the barcode number when I pickup packages. They're GREAT!!!

Do you think it's because you keep them in business? :P

#77: er, uh, oh, eeei, ummm, ah..... maybe....

But Woody likes my smile!!!

Just a little grumble. One of the Toronto bookmoochers kindly arranged a meetup to do some book exchanging. I put some heavy books in my inventory for the meeting. I added condition notes that said that these books were only there for the Toronto bookmooch meeting-I would not send those books by mail.So, two people from out of country asked me if I would send them. ( I guess condition notes are not read) I did send messages back explaining why I would not accept the mooch,. One person ( country not mentioned) within 24 hours asked me for a book , didn't wait for my answer, mooched the book and then cancelled it. So I withdrew the books from my inventory. I left a message for those going to the meeting that I would add and reserve any book from that list for meeting goers.
So- I am exchanging a book at the meeting- nice idea but wonder if there is anyway to avoid the problem of people mooching without reading condition notes.
As I said a minor grumble .

Maybe there should be a "reserve for meeting" option if you're set as attending a meeting.

can you still reserve for friends? with the 7-14 day option

or just reserve for a person you know... and then release it when the meet & mooch happens??

Reserving a book in your inventory for yourself actually works too, oddly enough. That might be the easiest solution.

So, conclusion of my rant (message 4) about the force-received book: after an exchange of emails with the Abuse team, I got my points back! Yay!

#83: YAY!! Congrats!!

I know! I'm celebrating by eating Ossau-Irraty cheese with black cherry jam! Hmmm!

*is French, is thus addicted to cheese*

*is now hesitating between Brie de Meaux, Pont-L'évêque, Pouligny-Saint-Pierre, and Epoisse.*

.

#85: Am currently in Wisconsin... LOVE CHEESE!!

I just have to be careful which cheese I eat..... long boring story....

But a life without cheese (& wine) is not a life worth...... well, it isn't as fun!

mmmm... cheese and apples and sausage and baguette or crackers and roasted garlic... I love the holidays. *sigh*

I'm eating a grilled cheese sandwich as I read this. Now I think that one of ya'll has some really good mind-idea-throwing power cuz I made the sandwich before I read this thread... lol

>55 Quaisior: I think I know exactly who you mean, and I'm still irritated beyond belief with this person. She joined BookMooch a few weeks ago, listed a bunch of books (so got points), mooched as many books as she could (received 22), never sent out a single book, and is now rejecting mooches because she can't afford to send books!

Her account has been suspended--looks as though I'm not the only person who reported her for abuse.

And, not to start anything, but her profile made a big deal of her Christian beliefs. Hypocrite!

I sometimes take quite a while to send books (I freelance and my income is variable and unpredictable), but I always send them eventually and didn't mooch until I had sent books--only seems polite ;-)

So this is actually a small USPS rant... I got a book today where they stuck one of those square zip code bar codes on the package... right in the middle of my address! How does that even happen?

Fortunately I have a tiny PO and I'm sure my postmaster had no trouble figuring it out... but seriously?

I seem to have terrible luck with newbies who join the site and never send anything. Fortunately I have plenty of points to spare, but it gets old after awhile...

>94 rainbowgirl28:, I totally get what you are saying and I recognize that this is the rant thread. That said, the talk about newbies in this group is fairly negative. I joined BookMooch about a month ago and was petrified that I was going to do it all wrong and be the subject of ranting posts. Now, I will admit that I'm a neurotic over-achiever who then read every post in all of the Newbie threads and several of the past Ranting and Great Experience threads just to make sure I knew what was going to annoy people so I wouldn't do it. But really, this group can be very intimidating for a newbie.

> 93

It's put on by one of the automated machines which sort parcels. The machines are supposed to be adjusted so as to NOT put the labels over the address.

However, occasionally the machines aren't adjusted very well.

95: *hugs! and welcome!*

I think that if newbies take time to look around BM, read the wiki, poke around a bit to see what it's all about, then there's no problem. And most newbies obviously do that. The frustration often comes from newbies who sign up and list tons of books, often highly-wishlisted books, but don't read the wiki, the rules, don't know anything about the community, etc. I had a case where a newbie was listing books *without knowing* they had to spend their own money to ship them! People like that, who charge in there and offer up books without making sure they know what they are doing, are frustrating because it creates bad experiences and false hope... "omg a book I've been wishlisting forever!! (two weeks later) they want me to send them money for the book?? wth?" yunno?

imo, most experiences with newbies are indeed positive. But in a rant thread, you'll hear about those minority cases where newbies cause lots of frustration, because it does happen.

95: Please don't be intimidated...as you say this is a rant thread.

We do have a newbie thread and a "happy' thread; so just go with the flow and instead of worrying and being intimidated ask all the questions you need and all help will be forthcoming... I promise.

Unfortunately, IMHO, it is one of the most frustrating repetitive occurrences - new members joining, listing heaps of highly-wanted books and then disappearing, even after accepting etc; even more so if they mooch heaps themselves but send none. Do not take all this too personally; it is often a very general vent and really helps relieve our disappointment. We are an obsessive bunch with our mooching, so we get emotionally affected. :)

I say welcome to BookMooch and happy mooching! And I mean it. That's all you need to worry about.
If you list and send books, and communicate well, you will have very little to worry about...

(edited to fix my grammar - in case another pedant pops by)

#98: WE'RE OBSESSIVE ABOUT OUR MOOCHING??????????

What are you talking about?

You have got to be kidding!!

We are the most laid-back, relaxed moochers in the world!!

No stress at all!!

No obsessive-compulsive disorder here!!

No fussing about the exact & proper way to package & mail books!!

No worrying about the 3 millimeter tear on the dustjacket of a 75 year old book!

No horror that someone wrote their name on the flyleaf!

No fear that the gorillas & elephants in the postal system & customs areas decide that our packages are perfect for practicing their crunch jumping & racket ball!! They don't throw our packages around!! They treat them with complete & proper dignity worthy of the knowledge (& smut) enclosed!

NO WAY!!

WE ARE NOT OBSESSED ABOUT OUR MOOCHING!!!

*bursts out laughing*

>99 skittles:

The elephants and gorillas are just upset that the smut isn't for them. :)

#101: You're probably right!!

99: I do love it when I'm proven right.
*smug sigh*

101: That's why they throw them thar packages around...

My rant is actually aimed at the postal service, rather than a particular experience with a fellow website user.

So, I sent out two parcels last week. One was very light, and so I decided to indulge in the Christmas spirit and pay for airmail rather than surface mail. This was 10 days ago, and no word that it's been received (and I have no reason to doubt the moocher will let me know when it does). The second parcel was a bit heavier, and so I went for surface mail. I posted this a week ago today, and I woke up to notifications saying it had arrived.

Seriously, this doesn't make me want to splash out for airmail, when surface mail actually gets it there quicker!

>95 cms519:

Don't worry, you'll be fine :) I have had some great experiences with newbies as well. I keep taking chances on them since I have the points to spare. Sometimes it works out great, and helps them build a good reputation on the site.

#104 That's odd, I find airmail out of the UK is generally pretty reliable. Surface mail seems to jump on an ship with wings quite often though!

Re incoming packages though... I have recently received two parcels from the same person in Germany - one took 3 days, the other took over 2 weeks. Go figure.

#95 welcome!

95: Just keep this in mind. If you're reading rants about newbies, then you're not a newbie we're ranting about. Those don't pay attention. :)

#104: They may have gotten tossed in the opposite bins.... the airmail may have been tossed in the surface bin & the surface pkg tossed in the airmail bin. Most postal workers are so busy that it is easy to mix up what goes where.

#95: welcome!! we've all been newbies here & if you've read the threads, most of us all make 'stupid/didn't think/whammer/thump the head' type mistakes.. we just own up to it & smooch points all around. The other LT/BMers pat us on the shoulder & we just carry on with our mooching....

You are being careful & cautious and that's all to the good. You'll do fine & then you can come here & to the Happy thread & we can cheer & commiserate with you in all your mooching fun!!

Grrrr! I just received my first-ever zero because, although I'd described the book as battered but perfectly readable, the moocher decided I had mis-described it. The book was intact but, as I said, battered ... And, yes, I smooched her a point and apologised, but it really rankles (especially as I had to remind her to mark it received!). Okay, rant over :-)

>108 skittles:

I didn't post them on the same day - the airmail had a few days head start over the surface mail package. I'm near certain the SM one got an accidental upgrade - it seems to happen a lot - but I'd be surprised if the AM one got downgraded.

Pfft. It's not a huge deal. Just frustrating to spend the extra money and get a slower delivery.

Thanks everyone for the welcomes and reassurances. I love this group. I have been reading these threads daily for a few weeks, jumped in cautiously but with both feet, and am (already) obsessive about my mooching. I'm WAY too proud of the feedback I've gotten about the great conditions of the books I've sent and the careful way I've packaged them. (The packaging in particular is a credit to what I read in this group-- I read every post in the thread about packaging!)

I'm sure I'll be ranting soon enough. I'm in the honeymoon period. After about 3 weeks of receiving mooches nearly every day, the feeling that every day is like Christmas hasn't worn off. I hope it never does. On another note, my partner is ready to KILL me. She won't even pick up the packages from our front desk anymore! She knows they are likely books for me and she refuses to carry any more books into our already crowded-with-books apartment.

Thanks for the welcome, everyone!

111: Only 3 weeks and you've already got the partner mad? :P It took about 6 months before my mom started complaining about all the books coming in.

(oh, and that "squeeeee it's a package for me!" feeling never goes away. lol)

#111 & 112: .... which makes me glad that I live alone, although my cat sometimes complains when I'm reading and not feeding/petting/playing/paying attention to him!!!!

and if you know cats at all, that is all the time, except when they are sleeping.

Ooh, this is going to drive me nuts. I just received one of those "We're sorry, but we received this package damaged, with no contents" envelopes from the USPS, with an empty brown paper package from the UK. No return address. A person's name printed on the customs form, but it's no one I recognize. And I don't have any missing mooches from the UK! I've gone back thru my mooching history, but I can't figure it out.

So, I didn't receive something I'm not sure I mooched from someone I don't know. Argh!

The post office also included a helpful note to tell me that they received the package that way, but they may have the contents there, if I'll just call them up & describe the contents. But I don't know what the contents were!

Waah! :'(

>113 skittles:....my old cat loves my books, as substitute "laps"...where she can perch while I'm doing People stuff..trouble is, she's an OLD CAT and drools copiously...not good for books...but my BM stash is in a place she can reach only if she's "determined"

>114 iwillrejoice:...the only time i received one of THOSE notices was for a Domestic package (Daedalus Books)..and all i got was a "corner" of the original box. I'm sorry for your bad luck..sounds kinda hinky to me....but I don't do International Mooches..I guess I'm just commiserating.

;-}

>114 iwillrejoice:

Is it possible someone used a pre-used envelope to send you something? I got a Mooch the other day from someone in Germany, and got very confused at first because the packaging had a load of US postal stickers on it. Further investigation of the package led me to the conclusion the German user I mooched the book from used a pre-used envelope sent to them from the US. So maybe something similar's happened here? Someone who received a book from the UK has used the same packaging for the book sent on to you?

It's a long shot, but a possibility.

>116 clearillusion: That sounds like a pretty good theory to me! I always reuse envelopes, and I print my label and tape it on. If one of my books got completely mangled like that, it's possible an old address could be exposed.

I have kind of a rant/question... I mooched a book as an angel for someone in September. I forget if I got no response or a delay (I think no response). I sent them a reminder, and in late October, they marked the book mailed.

I never got it (and we're both in the US). I am pretty sure they never actually sent the book... no one has listed a book as received from them since late July.

I know I should just mark it lost... should I contact abuse first? They have three other books sent that day that also mysteriously never arrived...

118: I can feel your frustration. I currently have 1 book that both the sender and I know is lost, 2 that were sent in September and have yet to arrive, (the moocher is now on vacation with close to 20 losts) and another 3 or 4 more that I suspect that were not sent. I have reported these individuals to TPTB, and have not heard anything back. It would be nice for these accounts to be closed, permanently. I'm looking at them thinking that it's over 10 points that's tied up for months waiting for the day I can mark them lost.

Once, when I submitted an abuse report a year or so ago, I included a message that stated I thought the member I was reporting was a scammer and I explained why, and I received the most wonderfully responsive email back from the abuse team agreeing with my opinion and letting me know the account was now closed.

I really liked getting that feedback.

>95 cms519: As I'm one of the ones who ranted about a particular newbie, my apologies, I never meant to tar all with the same brush. Another very irritating thing about this particular person is that she opened her account with a bio saying that her husband had been unemployed for a year and a half, then used that as an excuse for not having sent any books out!

Grrr . . .

What I'm basically saying, I guess, is that I think this person opened the account with an intent to defraud the system. Which is a completely different thing than oops, I didn't understand how I should package books (and I didn't, originally, realize the value of wrapping the book in plastic first, until I sent someone a book that got damaged from being out in the rain after postal delivery but before he'd taken the package inside).

I think most bookmoochers are fairly forgiving of honest mistakes, but like people anywhere, don't much care for being lied to or "intentionally misled."

Short rant about my computer re-vamp... It's the re-vamp from HELL. I will be sharing da Mama's computer for awhile and am being herded away from it as I write this. meh. ;p

>118 rainbowgirl28:

I would send a mail to the user first - my last batch was actually stuck in my post office for months...

Yay! It didn't take as long as I thought! Back on my own computer. Phew! *wipes brow*

> 95

Please stick around - you'll fit right in here. I have found most folks here to be both welcoming and helpful. As with any message board, it helps to assume positive intent, even if someone is slipping an edge in wordwise.

We sometimes cast covetous glances at new members, but this is because we recognize that most books sitting in existing Inventories are tired and picked-over, while books added by new members are by definition better than average. But the same folks also generously push new members up the learning curve so they too can get the most out of BookMooch.

If someone feels uncomfortable here, they likely stop visiting the group but continue to use BookMooch. Of greater concern is when a new member is chased away by mis-features in the BookMooch system itself. These cases are sad and largely preventable.

Consider the recent case of a new member who was too enthusiastic, listing and immediately Sending several books. They tripped unawares over a system fraud-prevention criterion and their account was frozen with no explanation. Fortunately they found their way here to LibraryThing where experts diagnosed the likely problem and updated them on the status of their pending Sends while they waited to hear back from Support. Hopefully they endured this system hazing and went on to become a happy BookMooch member. Fraud prevention is necessary, but one improvement would be to tell people up front why their account is frozen. Another improvement would be to give new members higher Support priority.

In another case, a few weeks ago I watched a new member fall into the familiar "Add To Wishlist" error-prone interface trap. She added several books to Inventory by mistake, didn't notice right away, had to cancel several mooch requests, and garnered a -1 feedback from someone. I tried to help, but she walked away from BookMooch in frustration. I am like a broken record about this, but the "Add To Wishlist" feature reminds me of old Uncle Ned who gets handsy after his third Pimm's Cup. To all of his nieces Uncle Ned is a joke, but to a new guest at the party he is less an amusement than a hazard.

125: Oh yeah, that's another bug/error that causes lots of headaches. So many people add to their inventory when trying to add to their wishlist... I can't imagine someone leaving a negative feedback for that kind of mistake tho! Wow.

I'm starting to get a little worried about the package I mentioned up in msg 60. It hasn't showed up yet, it's been nearly a month since marked sent, and I'm a little concerned that the person may try to force-recieve it because of the fact that she sent me a reminder so soon and seemed fairly defensive about my response.

I would *like* to politely ask if she actually sent it, since the "confirmation" she forwarded me was *not* a notice that she had actually sent it anyways... but I have no idea how to ask that without sounding rude, especially since she seems overly-defensive in the first place.

#126: If she force-receives it, contact abuse.

Heather, maybe ask her if she remembers where she put the package for mailing? Did she hand it in at the post office, put it in her mailbox, etc. I know several people here have mentioned a package falling under the seat of their car, sending it with someone else who completely forgot to mail it, (another) etc. It's especially bad if someone has put on the postage instead of going to the post office, because putting the postage on isn't the same as the package actually winding up in the hands of the USPS worker, but to the memory it might be pretty much the same thing!

If the delivery confirmation still hasn't been updated, that would be a pretty good sign that it just didn't go in the mail somehow.

I don't think you can mark a book 'forced-received' in a shorter time span than the 'lost' time-frame. So Heather take heed for the earliest you can mark it lost - and jump in first. :)

What you can't do is mark it forced-received WITHOUT a reminder - gives the member a heads-up about you checking on the mooch and your intentions. You have to wait a certain amount of time after the reminder but in that is also the time since it was sent out - that's been my experience anyway.

Has anyone had this happen to them?

Okay, so I'm still fairly new to BM but I've been sending lots of books out, including international requests. So today at the PO they had 'something for you that you will not want'. I've requested several books from Germany from different moochers but this one came with $13.45 postage due. It looks like it just a paperback so it would have been cheaper first class. I didn't know it was possible to send out a book with no postage - it was in a priority envelope!

Now I'm trying to figure out which request it is and if I want to pay for it - they're holding it for me - but I think not. Funny - my name and address are printed very clearly but the return address is totally illegible. I have a feeling that if it's sent back they will not pay to receive it. That is if anyone can figure out where to send it!

But how can anyone send out a book with postage due, especially an international request, at least without having an agreement to do that first?

130: Yikes! Not good.

130 -

Are you sure it's actually from Germany? US moochers can send Priority Mail overseas, but people in other countries don't have access to our Priority Mail packaging. So if it's in a red and white Priority Mail package, I would think it's from a US member.

Also, an international package would have customs forms on it. Does your package have a customs form attached?

I also don't think it's possible for an international package to arrive postage due? It's up to each country how much money they want to charge, and those countries have an agreement with the US. So by the time the US gets the packages, it's assumed that the postage is correct.

I'm also not sure how a small paperback book could rack up $13.45? Most of the Priority Mail envelopes are flat rate which are $4.90. Even if they added delivery confirmation, that's like 80 cents. Even if it wasn't a flat rate envelope, Priority Mail for a small paperback book wouldn't be more than 7 or 8 bucks.

You could look at the history of all of your incoming mooches. Members who are brand new or have negative feedback are the most likely culprits.

Whatever you do, do NOT pay the postage due!! Not unless the member is willing to send you the money via several points or paypal you some cash.

>130 muyilusionada:

What's the most strange is that it doesn't make sense to only be one paperback; aren't your current mooches from Germany all multiples?

I can't tell if I am parsing this correctly, but did the book arrive from Germany in a German priority envelope, or one from USPS? If USPS, it's possible that something happened to the original package in transit, and USPS copied over your address and stuck the thing in a priority envelope. (And then charged you the flat rate.) That could explain it being only a single book, and one of your moochers has a feedback note about packaging.

It's also possible that the postage fell off, or someone reused a priority envelope from USPS without realizing that it is not permitted, in which case they would still charge you the postage.

It is from Germany - the priority mail envelope was just like ours except it was bilingual - English/German - I didn't know they had those either. Of course the customs form is in German which I studied in school but well my German is not perfect but it looks like there was no postage paid in Germany. The PO workers also believe no postage was paid on it. I have to go over my requests again because I think you're right - mostly when ordering from overseas I try to get more than 1 book. It could possibly be 2 skinny books. I'm a bit disconcerted over all of this and don't feel like rechecking my requests right now. But I guess I should. Sigh!

>134 muyilusionada: That does seem really, really strange! If there is a legible date on the customs form at all, you have different "sent" dates corresponding to each of the other moochers. It's weird, because timing-wise it makes slightly more sense to be from one of the more experienced moochers, but they have such excellent feedback it seems unusual.

I just can't believe any self-respecting postal worker would actually let a package go out of the country without accepting payment first!

This is not the sort of BookMooch fun you were hoping for, is it. :( Unless you like mystery novels. Whodunnit? BookMooching is on the case! *pulls out giant magnifying glass*

While I am also mystified about how something can actually be sent without postage being payed, I am wondering whether the $13.45 are somehow related to what it would have cost in Germany to post the package. Depending on weight, the things I have sent recently were either €6 or €12.

If all the other mooches are multiple, I might see if a single book arrives? I have had people from overseas split up the books, thinking it cost less to send them separately when they were different sizes. That is all I can think of.

>136 Conachair:

US$13.45 is the amount it costs to send a priority mail flat rate envelope from the US to most countries in the world, including Germany. So they are treating the German envelope as if it happened to be a US one, because that's the easiest way to calculate the postage.

I've seen domestic mail come with postage due, but for it to not have anything put on and then go to another country seems a bit much.

I wonder if the postage fell off in transit?

Okay, I have noticed this site glitch a few times but ARGH. It is rare to see Doctor Who episode novelizations that I don't have, so when two came up just now on my keyword search I was really excited. I clicked on the titles and got "no copies available" on both of them.

They were both mooched over an hour ago and are still showing up as available for mooch. Someone won't send to my country? Fine. Someone got to an "ask first" first? Fine. But this is just mean! If something has been well and truly mooched, I don't want to see it.

140: Awww, hugs!

>141 Mareofthesea: Much appreciated, as they are still there! Noooooooo! :)

Ah well, it got me to finally actually wishlist everything. It took a while, which is why I've just been going on keyword searches.

>140 chelonianmobile:

I've noticed that since the last big site change, the site is very slow to update which books are actually available. My wishlist seems to work fine, but on other searches, they are never up to date.

muyilusionada,

I wonder if the fee your being asked for is an import tax. In the UK they have recenty changed the rules so you now have to pay import duty on any parcels worth over £18 including used books and gifts. Whilst the tax works out at pennies the handling fee for the post office runs to nearly £11.

#144 I haven't come across that import tax before (although I'm not sure I'd have received any parcels with a value of more than £18 from outside the EU either).

The HMRC Customs page seems to say that commercial parcels of more than £18 will have customs duty and import VAT charges but for gifts the value has to be more than £40 before these kick in. Printed books should be zero rated for VAT purposes anyway.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfp...

I hadn't come across it either but the last few parcels I've had have had HMRC Customs stickers on them advising of the recent change and requiring a fee to be paid to Royal Mail one parcel was books and one was a dress both were well under the £40 limit.

#146 Ah, ok. I'll have to watch out for that.

148: You're not an evil newbie. Evil newbies are the ones who list a ton of books and
a. never come back
b. mark books sent without sending them
c. mooch a bunch of books without sending any

People get antsy over 0's. A 0 means that they're not getting a positive feedback for a transaction.

I don't think her response about lack o'padding makes any sense. A standard response to problems is profuse apologies and to offer points back, essentially a refund.

148> Personally, I also would be upset about receiving a 0 or a -1 after having had +623 feedback and no previous 0s or -1s. I send almost all of my books wrapped in plastic wrap and heavy brown paper and have never had anyone complain about the way a book was received. (in fact, many people comment about great packaging) If I had, I probably would also email the person, apologize and offer the point back in hopes that the feedback would be changed.

I agree that the feedback is for the transaction however, if I end up getting my point back as well as keeping the book, (damaged or not) I would be "satisfied" enough with the transaction to change my feedback to a +1 and just leave the comment about packaging. (and have done just that before)

Again, that is just me.

It just broke my heart when I got my first -1 and believe me, I did everything to make it right including purchasing a NEW copy of the book and sending it directly to the complainer. She never even changed the number to a zero and never acknowledged the new book (send directly by B & N so I know it arrived). This from a so-called devout Christian church librarian.... go figure.
Now I just do my best to make all mooches as good as possible, knowing that in a group as large as bookmooch there will always be a few curmudgeons that no matter what you do to make it right, they take it as a personal insult when it doesn't meet their expectations.

I just had a rather concerning email. I had mooched a book a while ago, back in early October, I believe. Anyways, it was marked sent about a month later. I then got an email mid-November apologizing as the books were not sent as the step-dad forgot them at work, but they would be sent soon. Today, I got notification that the book was 'lost'. After I left my disapointment show in my feedback, I noticed that she had also closed her account. So while I am not out of any points (by marking it lost, I got my points back) she still managed to mooch quite a few books with the points. I guess she decided that BM was too much for her, but I wish she had been more honest from the begining. Her feedback up till mid October was great- it just seemed like from then on she didn't care.

I wonder if she had some sort of emergency in October then. That is sad.

life happens.

I think it's official, the package of 3 books (that i had mooched for my mom) is definitely lost. Thankfully, the sender has been much nicer and more communicative then in the beginning. I'm going to wait until after I am able to mark them lost, before deciding if I want to try to mooch them again from someone else.

I just got a zero for mailing a book that was "not in good condition." On one hand, I can understand leaving a zero for that reason -- on the other hand, it was an old Baby-sitters Club paperback in what I considered to be the usual "used" condition (no major defects, just overall wear). While I didn't list condition notes, I was also not asked. I just returned her point, but...sigh. Grumble. :-(

Okay, so I angel mooched a book for someone in the UK back in September. The book owner accepted the next day saying she would send in a few days. I patiently waited for 4 weeks and sent an email asking if she was still able to send the book. The following day she responds saying it was sent. So I waited again until six weeks had passed and emailed her again asking if she by chance used delivery confirmation (mainly trying to keep a civil tone) because it had still not arrived after six weeks. No response from her at all and after another week I marked it lost on December 3rd. Well, it arrived today post marked December 2nd. When I marked it lost, I told TPTB that I didn't think she sent it and was unresponsive, but there was no way to leave any feedback. I still cannot leave feedback.

Now, what the hell do I do?

General question, I notice a lot of people giving back points because they got neutral or negative feedback, even when it seems the person who gave the feedback might have been a bit unreasonable. I'm kind of surprised that people are doing this -- is it in the hopes they will change the feedback?

Just curious....

The rest of the saga. I figured out who sent the book from Germany in a priority mail envelope but only paying their book rate. She gave me my points back, apologized saying she didn't know she couldn't reuse a priority envelope etc. But I think the German PO should have known better. Anyway I could just refuse the book and it would be returned but she'd have to pay 13.45 to pick it up which I doubt she'd do.

At the PO today I asked why they couldn't at least credit the 4 euros she paid against the 13.45 but no they couldn't. I don't really know why but I decided to just pay to get my book.

Also the envelope was a regular US priority mail envelope - I don't know where I got that bilingual idea from! So that's it!

#157: Just let it be. You tried & tried. She ran late. She got to keep her point & you got your points back.

TPTB have the transaction. If she keeps on "mailing incredibly late" then they will warn her & then shut her down.

#158: It depends upon how generous you feel & how important feedback is to you... and how important you feel feedback is to others.

Yes, many people refund the point to whiners & complainers, whether justified or not.

Personally, I've sent points when I've been incredibly late mailing a package (IMO) and haven't communicated with the moocher. (right now, I'm just dealing with moochers who know my situation)

It just depends upon what you want to do.

I like smooching friends more than I like smooching complainers.

#160 - Yeah, I know... but I feel like I need to let the system know or something. And I totally would not have marked it lost if she had just been honest with me or at least communicated with me. meh ;p

ETA: I think the system needs to know that she marked it sent 6 weeks before she actually sent it. At this point the system has no clue that I received it.

Send a message to abuse, just to let them know & they can put it on their record for her/him/it.

They probably have other 'messages' about her/him/it.

Yeah... Acckk!

>162 skittles:

What I regret about BM is that if you are set to worldwide you are obliged to accept any mooch as it comes.

I check profiles and mooch history of anyone who mooches from me. You can often discern patterns of people being very jumpy and or quick to cancel or prone to giving a lot of negative feedback on grounds that do not always seem reasonable.

Moreover, there is a category of members who looks upon BM as purely business transactions. They show little understanding for delays in shipping. For this reason I have felt the need to specify almost any contingency in detail in long condition notes + additional notes on the profile.

Nonetheless, I try to keep my profile set to worldwide even for single-book shipments.

>159 muyilusionada:

That's so weird... I've received a ton of books from overseas and never had anyone try to reuse a PM envelope! I'm glad you were able to sort it out, sorry to had to pay the postage though.

>165 rainbowgirl28:
I've received a few in reused PM (back in Bulgaria). Which can be a pain if the post office decides to enforce the rules (mine decided to let them slide).

highdesertlady, the inability to leave feedback on a "lost" transaction is a long-time bug that I've complained about several times. Just fyi. And I agree, even if the book eventually arrived, at the very least TBTB need to be aware that this person marked it sent over a month before they actually sent it. Since, yunno, you can't let other potential moochers know (sorry, pet peeve).

164: I am so, so glad that BM works the way it does concerning accepting mooches. If you think someone may be a scammer or breaking the rules, you can delay the mooch and notify Admin. Otherwise it's open game, and I love that. For some BM is basically business, yes, but I see nothing wrong with that. If my status message clearly states a specific delay time, that's part of the "business transaction", that it won't be sent until then.
I know for a *fact* that if the whole "no rejecting for personal beliefs" rule wasn't in place, I would get at least a few mooches rejected because of my "blatant" homosexuality. As it is, if that ever happened I would be able to notify admin and know that the person would be reprimended for it.
The rules about accepting/rejecting are, for the most part, something I think is necessary to keep BM a non-biased place.

If/when that bug is fixed Heather, I've made a special note that you be notified first, before anyone else :) Seriously though, it is on of the toughest bugs to fix on BM as it would involve re-working a whole area of coding. Certain programming tasks such as this might be saved until it becomes more logical to devote the time needed (often 100 hours or more), such as another improvement or fix in the same area. There will be a series of such changes and fixes to the pending page in the future, for instance.

The USPS is very particular about the re-use of their free priority/express envelopes and boxes. While they can levy large fines, what they will generally do is just charge the person receiving the package the full priority rate (although they sometimes fail to do so), even if only media rate was intended. So if a person in another country happens to re-use a USPS flat rate packet, there will be a charge of $13.45 in order to get the package.

If this happens within the US, as it nearly always would, it is probably best to refuse the package which will return it to the sender, who can then correct their mistake by re-sending in any other type of packaging and paying standard media rates (and they can even re-use the original media mail postage paid in some cases). Some carriers might hit the sender up for the priority rate when the package comes back, other will not, it seems to be at their discretion. Alternately if the moocher has paid the postage due, it would only be fair to smooch over a point or two or send a free book in compensation.

As Heather has written, the only legit reason to reject an incoming request is the high cost of international postage. If you have concerns about the moocher's account, you can delay and issue an abuse report, but should not reject if you just happen not to like something about their account. BM would likely see snowballing rejections and counter-rejections if this were not the policy as past experience has shown, for people who feel that have been rejected unfairly often feel the need to do the same to others.

#167 - Heather, my thoughts exactly. It's frustrating because if you look at the history there are several mooch attempts for one book that were canceled due to no response (and now its been mooched a 3rd time), my book was 'lost' and she has a feedback of +17 out of 17. hmmm...

Feedback is just one measure of an account's standing. If someone shows a pattern of acting badly or this way or others, then they will be asked to improve and/or put on hold.

This is also true if someone tries to force receive too many books, as above, marks books as 'sent' without doing so, or 'lost' if not so, etc... all shows on one's record and it becomes apparent through time if one has just made an occasional mistake, or if not.

>167 Heather19:

I have encountered two people who would not send to "Red China".

I though that was an invalid reason, gave them -1 but did not contact Abuse.

#171 that's pretty special as a rejection reason! I have to say that would make me giggle, rather than making me grumpy the way that the standard "I don't have this book any more" does.

edited - I left out a word!

>171 edwinbcn:

That sucks! :/ If I had been in that position, I don't think I could have controlled my kneejerk reaction of responding with snark. "You are misinformed; this is actually Chartreuse China."

I would definitely have contacted abuse, that is sick. I wonder how many things in their home should be repossessed since they came from China.

Thanks all here for a dose of book-infused sanity! :)
Kudos to markwp for taking time to read some of these & do administration advising.
Hope you aren't all complaining about me - I don't think you are! ;)

I got a fun package the other day. I could tell they must be a new-ish US-international moocher by their packaging. We've been having snow, wind and ice all over the country here in the UK... a package arrives, paper completely torn, labels need seeing to be believed - and here's me with a free Royal Mail plastic bag holding it together. It was damaged before arriving in country. I'm lucky package didn't come apart completely - book is OK! I stared disbelievingly at it for a while!

176: Speaking of packages? *peers*

#171 The use of the term "Red China" does make it sound as if an uninformed person is just holding a grudge against certain countries. However, I think it would be good to keep in mind that there are people who work in jobs where they hold government security clearances or work for companies where those issues could be a concern. I'm thinking about certain jobs in the military, defense contractors, certain areas of law enforcement; or the government itself (I'm seeing any number of possibilities here), and a person in that position could possibly jeopardize their clearance and therefore their job if they are sending packages to certain countries. We ought to keep in mind that on occasion there are legitimate reasons for a person to be selective about where they want to mail their books, and it would be a shame if someone in that position had to limit their mooching to in their own country to avoid that problem.

Given that they could use any return address/name they want, and given that America is a 'free country' unless they are sending the books from work I do not see that as an issue. Frankly the US has been working hard to improve relations with China rather than restrict them.

Edited to add that I don't think anybody in a sensitive position at work would send an email including the prejudiced slur of 'Red China'.

#179--I agree that I can't see why China would be an off-limits country for anyone from the U.S. because of security clearance reasons. Other countries might, though, like the ones on the U.S.'s sanctions list (Iran, etc.), even if sending the books isn't prohibited by the sanctions.

I agree that the Red China comment probably indicates that the people Edwin are dealing with are not in this position, and tried to acknowledge that in my comment. And I frankly don't even know if China would be on a list of countries where there would be sanctions. I just meant to address the larger issue, which is basically just that some people might have legitimate reasons for being selective where they send their books. In that case they would probably want to either be on an "ask first" basis or set to within their country only.

ETA: And if they send a refusal when asked they would probably want to word it tactfully and not in a manner that sounds derogatory to the asker.

As far as I remember it was an "ask first". I had requested a small paperback. I felt the answer was inappropriate because it politicizes Bookmooch.

#181: I didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing with you. You make a good point about possible reasons for not wanting to send to certain other countries. And China is not on the list of U.S.-sanctioned countries.

I would think allowing people to not send to certain countries for 'political reasons' would be opening up a whole can of worms frankly. Glad to hear China is not on that list.

Still no confirmation that the airmail package has been received (post #104). I've just sent off an email checking that it really hasn't shown up - I know it's only been 3 weeks, but most of my surface-mail packages have turned up faster than this. And the book was absolutely tiny, and weighed almost nothing.

I'm hoping that the moocher has forgotten to mark it as received, or else there really is just a hold up somewhere. I've yet to have a book lost in the post, and I don't want this to be my first on the one time I shelled out for air-mail postage.

I'm always surprised at hearing people won't send to a country because of what the country is doing- I always feel I am promoting world peace simply by simply sending my books to a place where the Government is a bit scary. People are not their Government, and anybody who is on a site like BookMooch must be awesome, until proven otherwise :)

186: Agreed! :)

#186 ditto!!! well said.

I don't know any BMer who believes in censoring books, so why would we deny someone in a politically unstable country the right to ideas, lifestyle, or philosophical ideals? Those might be the very same people who, with information from the free world, could be instrumental in making changes within their own country!!!
( never underestimate the power of people-to-people connections)

Of the last four books I've sent out, two moochers have gone inactive immediately after requesting their books from me, and another has vacationed herself right after I mailed her book. So of course I'm not getting feedback from them. This is getting ridiculous.

*okay, I feel better now*

#189: the one that vacationed herself right away might be vacationing herself because of the holidays... and so you will still probably get feedback.

and those of us who know what a newbie's feedback will look like, we will understand when we see crazy stuff on a person's profile.

Just relax & have fun!!!

190 thanks for your reply skittles. I'm not sure if you're thinking that I'm a new member, but I've been on BM a couple of years now. My frustration comes from the three members sorta disappearing at once. I've had just one or two mooches that I've had to force over the years, so three at once makes me wonder what's up, but I know it will work itself out.
Course I'm someone who gets really irked when I send my niece presents in the mail and they aren't acknowledged ;)

I've given up on expecting notes back from relatives about gifts... and I'm not great about them either...

and on our stuff with bookmooch..

the tide comes in...
the tide goes out...

feast .... and famine...

I just received a water damaged book. Ack! The condition notes said that there were library stickers, discard stamps and such, so I thought, okay... I get it today and the last 1/3 of the book is wavy and argh! It's readable so I left her a +0 with feedback stating that "Condition notes said nothing about the last 1/3 of book being water damaged. I don't mind stickers and whatnot, but water damage should have been noted."

hmmph.

That sucks! Which book?

Tolkien's The Two Towers. It's not like I can't get another one, but it's the same size, publisher, etc as the other two that I already have. I have it in two forms now. One very old (in my bm inventory) and one very damaged. ugh. This version is a trade paperback with Sauron on the cover and is a movie tie-in. *sigh* I am almost afraid to read it because of the possibility of mold. Will probably circular file it.

>193 highdesertlady:

Is it possible it got water damaged enroute?

I always wrap my books in plastic to prevent this, but most books I receive via bookmooch do not use plastic.

No, it was dry, it has some mold spots on the inside back cover and was sent in a bubble wrap envelope with no damage. It was very obvious that it was not damaged en route. *sigh* She has not responded to my feedback nor has she signed in for the last three days. Sucks, but I don't think I will hear from her. I really hate throwing away books. :(

I'm hoping some of you more experienced moochers can help me out with a problem.

I mooched a book on December 10th from a member in the US. I received the book today - the problem is that the book was mailed from and has a return address for British Columbia, the same province I live in. So I "paid" two points to mooch a book from someone in my own country???

Should I email the member or just hit abuse? I've never had anything like this happen to me before and I'm not really sure how to proceed. Your thoughts would be most appreciated!

...For those of you that might be curious, the book arrived in good condition and was just what I wanted. I'm just a bit POed about spending the extra point!

ETA: I have not yet marked the book as received.

Personally? I would hit abuse. Bad form, that.

I wouldn't worry too much about by it - there might be a very good reason for it being sent in British Columbia - for example, the Arizona person might have been visiting, or a person from British Columbia visiting the person in Arizona and the book was sent home with the visitor to post. This happens quite frequently.

A person I mooch from lives in Japan, but he travels home to the same state I live in once or twice a year - if he knows hes visiting, he just waits until he gets to the US to send it. The books still traveled across a border, so I don't mind the points that I spent on it.

There might be other explanations, but this is the first that comes to mind. I hope this helps!

I agree that I'd ask first before assuming it was abuse. TheDivineOomba has several logical explanations for this.

It seems odd, though, that the return address is also in BC. jes sayin'.

Yeah, I'd ask first, see if you can get an explanation about it... But really, if people are going to ship like that, they need to *tell* the moocher. It seems really bad form to take 2 points for international shipping, and then ship it domestically, and not tell the person!

Highdesertlady, I agree with you. The return address is what is bugging me about the whole thing. It's a label, not a handwritten address. I think I will send an email first and go from there. Thank you all for your thoughts!

If the address showed AZ, then Canada Post would probably not take it.

What about the cost to get it from AZ to BC? A little more than what USPS charges.

If the person's home base is AZ, then I have no problem with a 'hand-carry' to BC. or maybe AZ actually did an "angel-type" transaction between the two spots.

For all we know, the person's business might have an inter-office mail system between AZ & BC and have a friend post it from BC to BC.

What if she sent it to the wrong moocher in BC & they were nice enough to just send it on to you??

All situations are supposition. I'd be glad to get the book. And I know points are expensive, especially for Canadian BMers.

MarkWP will chime in eventually. Let's see what he has to say.

Edited to add: when this is completed, can someone start the new thread, please??

New Thread Started here:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/104657