December 2010 reading

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December 2010 reading

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1sf_addict
Dec 1, 2010, 9:54 am

Allow me to begin the countdown to the end of another literary year with Cemetery World by Simak,a re-read.

2auntmarge64
Edited: Dec 1, 2010, 9:59 am

Still reading Blue Mars by Robinson.

ETA: Also, Fate of the Jedi: Vortex by Troy Denning

3anglemark
Dec 1, 2010, 9:59 am

I'm reading Makers by Cory Doctorow. A bit preachy and patches of too much info dumping, but also engaging and interesting.

4Beezlebug
Dec 1, 2010, 10:09 am

I'm about a third of the way through Necropath by Eric Brown. Reminds me a little of the Hamilton's Greg Mandel trilogy.

If anyone else has read this, is Bengal Station supposed to be a space station, terrestrial or a combination? From Sullivan's cover art I thought it was a space station since his artwork usually ties into the book very well. However there are some other descriptions that give me the impression its completely on Earth.

5andyl
Dec 1, 2010, 10:23 am

#4

The station is supposed to be on Earth. I think it actually says so specifically in the book - but you haven't got to that bit yet, but there are textual clues earlier - oceans and dhows etc. Always go by the text of the book not the cover illustration.

6dukeallen
Edited: Dec 1, 2010, 12:21 pm

Just started reading Jane Bites Back. Not my usual cup of tea, but it's a Proof and I got it for 35 cents at a thrift store and thought I'd give it a shot.
Also working on the Ace double The Key to Irunium, having finished The Wandering Tellurian.

7nhlsecord
Dec 1, 2010, 5:42 pm

Just finished Cryoburn by Lois McMaster Bujold. It was nice to have Miles back for a visit but this grown up Miles isn't as much fun as the young one. Still, the characters were enjoyable and the reactions of everyone to Miles are enjoyable too. The book came with a CD of essays and interviews and other things which I've been enjoying. I really like LMB.

8bj
Dec 2, 2010, 3:34 am

Am battling my way through Accelerando. I'm not loving it, I'm finding it very disjointed with way too much technobabble but I will finish it. I think that it may be too hardcore cyberpunk for me. Someone please tell me it gets better!

9iansales
Dec 2, 2010, 3:38 am

Am reading Axiomatic, Greg Egan's first collection. Never really got on with his fiction but decided to give him another go. I think I know why it never caught my fancy - his stories seem to consist of one implausible idea stretching to breaking point, and often beyond.

10gailo
Dec 2, 2010, 11:58 am

Last night I finished The Bookman by Lavie Tidhar. Steampunk, sort of, with automatons and pirates and revolutionaries trying to overthrow their lizard masters. It was a hell of a lot of fun.

11Beezlebug
Dec 2, 2010, 9:37 pm

Finished Necropath tonight. It was different than I thought it was going to be but still enjoyable. I think I'll go ahead and start reading Xenopath next and then Cosmopath to finish out the trilogy.

12SimonW11
Dec 3, 2010, 4:08 am

oh never got round to posting my reading last month. what was it umm Old Man's War was one.
Another was The lost Steersman, which I am still reading since I left it on a train and had to order a replacement.

I suspect Rosemary Kirsten Of being the secret lovechild of Ursula K. Le Guin and Hal Clement.
this is what Science fiction should be fiction about science, More it is about the nature of Science. Her books should be on a University's science foundation course. I can think of no better intoduction to critical thinking and the scientific method.

13iansales
Dec 3, 2010, 5:00 am

I have The Steerswoman on the TBR. Picked up a copy in a charity shop after seeing a recommendation for it.

14SimonW11
Dec 3, 2010, 5:22 am

13>. The starting book is is fair to middling, but this is a series that really should be started at the beginning. It grows with the telling.

15pjfarm
Dec 3, 2010, 9:16 pm

Picked up Bujold's newest, Cryoburn, at the library. It was a good book but not her best. Outside of two scenes, (I'm not giving more info to avoid spoilers) I never felt as if Miles felt like he was in danger of failing (or dying or anything else negative). His fast talk and misdirection is still entertaining but there wasn't any dramatic tension for me.

16majkia
Dec 4, 2010, 9:55 am

Just began an Early Reviewer copy of The Half-Made World by Felix Gilman. Too soon to have any real thoughts about it as yet.

17randalhoctor
Dec 4, 2010, 4:23 pm

Finished Surface Detail (audio) great story and the audiobook reader did a great job. Iain M Banks books seem to translate very well to audio. I suspect it is because the readers are fans themselves. I read about half and have listened to about half of nearly all Culture books. I cannot seem to get hold of Feersum Endjinn in any format.

My review of Surface Detail is posted.

I'm nearly done reading Timelike Infinity

18gailo
Dec 4, 2010, 7:03 pm

I've just started New Model Army by Adam Roberts. I'm really enjoying it so far.

19pjfarm
Dec 4, 2010, 7:13 pm

Read Spider Robinson's book Callahan's Con. Hadn't seen any of his books for a while, (this one dates back to '03 but I just bought it at a used book store) so I got curious and checked. I've intentionally skipped his Heinlein book and Spider had the sad experience of his wife, Jeanne, dying, so Spider hasn't published much else in the last five years.

Anyone read the Heinlein book, Variable Star? I typically avoid that kind of thing and am curious if that was a good call in this case.

20randalhoctor
Dec 4, 2010, 8:45 pm

Just finished Timelike Infinity. Enjoyed it. You guys were right about reading Vacuum Diagrams first.

Might read Flux next (the next book), or may take a break from the Xeelee series and read dhalgren

May listen to The Starry Rift.

#19 Yah. I remember liking Variable Star but nothing more. Read it years ago.

21RBeffa
Dec 5, 2010, 1:04 am

#16, ditto. My reading habit has been seriously impacted the last couple weeks by finally getting an HDTV. I generally watch little TV but the dvd's look so incredible on it. I'm still in the WOW stage.

22iansales
Dec 5, 2010, 3:37 am

#20 Dhalgren is quite a break from Baxter's novels...

23johnnyapollo
Dec 5, 2010, 9:12 am

Just finished Recursion - not a bad first novel in my opinion...

24kcmay
Dec 5, 2010, 9:43 am

I'm reading Bright of the Sky by Kay Kenyon. It was recommended by someone on the nookboards, and so far I'm really loving it! Granted I'm only about 7% of the way in (and I recently gave up on The Blade Itself at 60%), but I suspect this one will hold my attention. I'm already finding the characters & plot fascinating, whereas I found The Blade Itself difficult to get into.

25RobertDay
Dec 5, 2010, 10:29 am

> 17: The idea of an audiobook version of Feersum Endjinn is rather worrying...

26SimonW11
Dec 5, 2010, 10:46 am

I am reading the language of power.

27randalhoctor
Dec 5, 2010, 12:00 pm

>25 RobertDay: From what I've heard about Feersum Endjinn having a lot of phonetically spelled out dialect audiobook may be the way to go. A talented reader can do wonderful things with the written word. I stumbled across an mp3 of Wilfred Owen's Dulce et Decorum Est that was truly remarkable. In my opinion many audiobooks are serviceable at best. Some however are pure butchery, Stephen Baxter's Manifold series comes to mind. And some I can not even listen to. However, I do occasionally come across an audio rendition that is well crafted and "acted", and clearly demonstrates the reader or readers understanding of the text.

I always read one and listen to another. I like audiobooks because I'm a bit of an insomniac and hours of computer work tire my eyes terribly. Feels like demented hummingbirds are tugging on nylon filaments super-glued to my corneas.

28RobertDay
Dec 5, 2010, 12:16 pm

It would all hinge on how well the dialect was handled. Given that the film 'Trainspotting' was subtitled in English for some English-language markets, and my impression that the dialect parts of Feersum Endjinn were broad Glaswegian, you'll appreciate my concern.

30randalhoctor
Dec 5, 2010, 7:12 pm

Decided to go with Flux 'cause its an ILL/hold and no telling when I can get it back. But then definitely Dhalgren. The sub-genre looks a bit out of my ken (get it 28+29?), but I gather its like a Neil Gaiman .

28+29: Yeah. Glaswegian goes way beyond accented English and is a true dialect. But the question is mote because I can't get a copy of Feersum Endjinn to begin with.

Listening to The Starry Rift

31iansales
Dec 6, 2010, 7:51 am

I was planning to tackle Surface Detail next, but ended up with Yellow Blue Tibia instead. Enjoying it so far.

And I've still got to read Stretto to finish off the Marq'ssan Cycle, so I can write it up on my blog.

32edgewood
Dec 6, 2010, 3:23 pm

#8: I would have been happy with just the first story, "Lobsters". The rest of Accelerando takes the Singularity concepts to their absurd conclusions. I enjoyed the whole book, but I can't say it gets better as it goes along.

33randalhoctor
Edited: Dec 7, 2010, 7:20 pm

Stopped listening to The Starry Rift about two-thirds through. It wasn't bad. The reader was. Started Haze (audio). Still reading Flux.

34bj
Dec 7, 2010, 2:48 am

#32 I can't say that I'm enjoying the book, but I'd agree with everything else you said. I'm hoping to finish it off tonight and I'm not expecting it to be a great ending.

35pgmcc
Dec 7, 2010, 9:07 am

#17 I'm glad you liked Surface Detail. I bought it when it came out and my wife grabbed, stuck it in a drawer, and said, "You'll get that on Christmas Day!"

I hope you find Feersum Endjinn. It's a hoot.

36pgmcc
Dec 7, 2010, 9:12 am

#31 iansales

Yellow Blue Tibia is a good, though not brilliant, read. I posted a review on it and would be interested to hear what you think of it when you're finished.

37sf_addict
Dec 8, 2010, 11:42 am

Just started Vertigo by Shaw

38johnnyapollo
Dec 8, 2010, 5:18 pm

Re-reading Saberhagen's Complete Book of Swords currently - actually more fantasy than SF. Just finished OSC's latest Lost Gate and tackling Spin by Robert Charles Wilson after completing Swords. The books are very different from what I remember...

39yeschaton
Dec 8, 2010, 8:07 pm

Me: Walter Jon Williams' The Green Leopard Plague. Always thoughtful and well-written are his books.

40DugsBooks
Dec 8, 2010, 11:01 pm

Just put The Forever War on reserve at the library. After reading some discussions it looks like a classic I missed, the YA listing puts me off a bit. Question, is the ibsn #0312536631 a version that is "complete"? It says this was published 2009 as opposed to the earlier publications I guess.

41brightcopy
Dec 8, 2010, 11:05 pm

The Forever War as YA? That's kind of odd. If so, then a LOT of other regular scifi is YA.

I wouldn't be put off by the publication date, as it's constantly being republished.

42randalhoctor
Dec 8, 2010, 11:13 pm

#40 I enjoyed The Forever War and Haldeman's related books.
It's probably a re-release. No worries.

43Valleyguy
Dec 9, 2010, 1:50 am

Reading Snow Crash by myself and Hunger Games with my wife. Snow Crash is my first Stephenson read, enjoying it so far. I want to read his newer works sometime, but his plot buildup is so slow I wonder if I could make it through them.

44Shrike58
Dec 9, 2010, 7:03 am

Finished Eifelheim (B), which is really two novels, between the tale of space aliens stranded in medieval Germany and a near-future story of scientific detection with a past-its-sell-by-date romantic relationship apparently turning sour thrown in. That more could have been done with the near-future portions of the book characterwise is why I mark it down a bit.

45beniowa
Dec 9, 2010, 10:41 am

By today's standards, a lot of old scifi would probably fall into the YA category. They often had a different style of writing back then.

I finished The Quiet Woman by Christopher Priest. It wasn't as fulfilling as some of his other work, but it was pretty good.

46cosmicdolphin
Dec 9, 2010, 1:38 pm

44:

Wreck of the River of Stars is the best novel by Flynn.

47randalhoctor
Dec 10, 2010, 7:07 pm

Finished Haze on audio. I rather liked it. Started The Best Science Fiction and Fantasy of the Year Volume 3 also on audio. The reader is irritating and I may bail on it.

Still reading Flux.

48randalhoctor
Dec 10, 2010, 9:29 pm

Yeah. I tried The Best Science Fiction and Fantasy of the Year Volume 3 on audio and just couldn't hack it. The woman's voice began to seem like nails on a black board. I had to keep myself from whipping the CDs out the window. However, I don't think my library would buy that the product was a travesty and a crime against humanity. That's the second Jonathan Strahan anthology on audio with a terrible reader. It's a shame because The Best Science Fiction...series has always been a good read.

So. For audio I'm doing Tides of Light by Gregory Benford. I liked Furious Gulf of same series.

49davisfamily
Dec 11, 2010, 8:57 am

Code of the Lifemaker by James P. Hogan.

50randalhoctor
Dec 11, 2010, 12:28 pm

I've decided to drop Flux after reading the first 1/4 book. Feels like I'm being unfaithful to one of my top 5 authors, but I've looked ahead and it seems to be the same story unfolding throughout. Still gonna try the other Xeelee books.

I'm starting to read Spin State.

51sf_addict
Dec 11, 2010, 7:10 pm

#48
you do know that Furious Gulf comes AFTER Tides of Light!
http://www.librarything.com/series/Galactic+Center+%284%29
(I've read the whole series )

52randalhoctor
Dec 11, 2010, 10:53 pm

#51
Yeah. I know. I've been limited by what my local public library has to offer, and only recently started using the ILL/hold system state-wide.

53SimonW11
Dec 12, 2010, 2:34 am

I am reading and enjoying halting state

54iansales
Dec 12, 2010, 3:43 am

I started Surface Detail last night and am about a third of the way into it.

55Noisy
Dec 12, 2010, 4:17 am

Just finished Transition by Iain Banks. Not overly impressed.

Just starting Cowl by Neal Asher.

56johnnyapollo
Dec 12, 2010, 8:29 am

I liked Cowl quite a bit...

57Noisy
Edited: Dec 13, 2010, 9:13 am

>56 johnnyapollo:

I'm trying to get back into the habit of reviewing, so I've made an attempt at a review of Transition (not easy), and with any luck I'll provide one for Cowl as well in a week or so.

58jnwelch
Dec 13, 2010, 9:29 am

Just started the newest Miles Vorkosigan book, Cryoburn.

59Aerrin99
Dec 13, 2010, 3:39 pm

> 58 Hey, me too! I was just coming over here to post that.

60randalhoctor
Dec 13, 2010, 7:04 pm

Still reading Spin State. Seems like my kind of Hard SF or the sub-genre I once tried to define as "Ultra SF" named after the Ultra faction in Alastair Reynolds books.

Gave up on the Galactic Center audio books (tech difficulties). Definitely plan to get the books someday.

Starting The Gap series on audio. Decided to skip The Real Story and start on book 2.

61jnwelch
Dec 14, 2010, 12:25 pm

>59 Aerrin99: Aerrin99 It's good to be spending time with him again! It's my train to work book, and the ride zips by.

62FicusFan
Dec 14, 2010, 4:19 pm

I read Agent to the Stars by John Scalzi. Light, funny and quick.

63davisfamily
Dec 14, 2010, 6:49 pm

Just bought Brave New Worlds. A collection of dystopian short stories. Has on of my favorite short stories of all time, The Lottery by Shirley Jackson.

64AlanPoulter
Dec 15, 2010, 2:50 am


Just started Greg Bear's Quantico - seems more like an episode of '24' than an SF novel so far...

65Aerrin99
Dec 15, 2010, 3:21 pm

Finished Cryoburn at lunch today (a mistake - the ending is not made for public places). It was a solid Vorkosigan caper, but nothing special, certainly not up to the standards of some of the middle books like Memory. I feel that Miles is starting to show his age and I'm happy that the next book is going to be an Ivan one.

Next up, ARC of Across the Universe, which seems to be hotly anticipated by many, so I'm looking forward to it!

66iansales
Dec 16, 2010, 3:53 am

Finished Surface Detail. I think, on balance, I preferred Matter. Review to follow on my blog soon-ish. Will post link here when done.

67avaland
Dec 16, 2010, 6:46 am

Not SF but I thought some might be interested:

I have started "Doc", a forthcoming book by Mary Doria Russell. I have enjoyed her previous work but this one gave me pause as it seems to be a western of some kind, with Doc Holliday (and family), and the Earps (and family) on a rather daunting list of characters that may outnumber her character list in A Thread of Grace. But, I was intrigued and started it last night. She's a great storyteller and had me after the first page...

68pjfarm
Dec 16, 2010, 3:57 pm

Picked up The Kingdom of Ohio by Matthew Flaming at the library. Not bad, certainly one of the more original novels I've read. Had elements of steampunk, alternate history or universes, and time travel in it, but in the end, it just didn't quite work for me. I'd give it about a 3 out of 5 rating.

69jnwelch
Dec 17, 2010, 12:35 pm

>65 Aerrin99: Sorry I'm a little slow getting back, Aerrin99. Yes, solid but not at the level of others in the series says it for me, too, with regard to Cryoburn. (I've always had a soft spot for Cetaganda, for some reason, which others probably wouldn't pick to highlight). I also wish Ekaterin had been featured in this one; her character has been one of the better developments in the latter part of the series.

How do you know the next one is about Ivan? Did I miss something?

70AHS-Wolfy
Dec 17, 2010, 4:30 pm

Reading Xenocide because it begins with an X and that's the letter I've reached for my Alphabet challenge.

71Aerrin99
Dec 17, 2010, 11:33 pm

> 69 No problem! And it came from an interview she did recently.

72ronincats
Dec 18, 2010, 12:26 am

>69 jnwelch: and 71 And also the fact that she was reading from "the Ivan book" at the book signings she did for Cryoburn, so that I have heard the first chapter. :-)

73johnnyapollo
Dec 18, 2010, 6:51 am

Reading Ender in Exile...

74jnwelch
Dec 18, 2010, 9:55 am

Thanks for the link, Aerrin99, Really interesting interview. I like her idea of dropping Bertie Wooster into Hamlet or Othello. The mind boggles.

A book centered around Ivan - I'm already curious. How did the first chapter sound, ronincats?

75DugsBooks
Dec 19, 2010, 11:27 pm

Finished reading The Forever War by Joe Haldeman and I am guessing I would not be the first person to compare it to Heinlein. I thought it was great.

From the hype around it I expected it would be quite the tome but the book is almost a novella {as most here know}. I was surprised to find that out and might scan through it again to look up some of the physics concepts tossed about very sparsely & appropriately.

In the intro the author did explain it was a version as he had originally conceived, not truncated as his publisher had insisted in the first editions.

76sf_addict
Dec 20, 2010, 5:08 am

Finished Bob Shhaw's Vertigo last night/this morning, very good!

Now onto a long overdue re read of Clarke's Childhood's End

77iansales
Dec 20, 2010, 6:31 am

Just started Christopher Hodder-Williams' Ninety-eight Point Four, another one from my list of British sf masterworks.

78iansales
Dec 20, 2010, 8:18 am

Have posted a review of Surface Detail, the latest Culture novel, on my blog here.

79andyl
Dec 20, 2010, 8:55 am

I've just finished Finch, and am currently reading Merlin's Wood.

After that I will probably take Guardians Of The Phoenix and Damage Time with me over Christmas.

80pgmcc
Dec 20, 2010, 9:09 am

#78
Ian, did you review "Yellow Blue Tibia"?

In relation to your "Surface Detail" review, I will read it after Christmas when my wife has given me the book and I've had a chance to read it.

81iansales
Dec 20, 2010, 9:18 am

No, I've not reviewed Yellow Blue Tibia. I was going to save it for my next reading round-up. But, basically, I thought the first half was good, very funny; but the second half lost the plot a little.

82trandism
Dec 20, 2010, 9:41 am

I'm halfway through Iain M Banks' 'Excession'

83pgmcc
Dec 20, 2010, 9:51 am

#81 iansales

I think that sums up my view on it too.

84RobertDay
Dec 20, 2010, 10:24 am

Just finished Reynolds' Revelation Space; now starting Banks' The Algebraist.

85rgurskey
Dec 20, 2010, 4:17 pm

Finished Weber's Storm from the Shadows which was all talk, as one review mentioned, and the collection The Power of Illusion by Christoper Anvil. Not the best collection of stories from him, but it contained many that I hadn't read before so that was good. Now working through an Eric Frank Russell collection.

86Noisy
Dec 20, 2010, 8:23 pm

"... working through ..." an Eric Frank Russell collection? Surely " ... basking in the glory of ..." would be more apposite?

87Noisy
Dec 20, 2010, 9:04 pm

Finished Neal Asher's Cowl. You can read my (unimpressed) review here.

Now started a non-fiction work: Mendel's Demon by Mark Ridley.

88johnnyapollo
Dec 20, 2010, 11:00 pm

Currently rereading Forever War - quite a bit better than what I remember...

89iansales
Dec 21, 2010, 2:15 am

Noisy, Asher's books are not held in especially high regard. He sells well, and he has a lot of fans, but no one's ever claimed his books were anywhere near the top-end, literature-wise, in the genre. He writes fast-paced gory space operas, and it's a style that's worked for him over a dozen books.

90brightcopy
Dec 21, 2010, 2:26 am

89> Agreed. He's not literature; he's the kind of author that is actually enjoyment to read instead of a chore.

;)

(And seriously, "Asher's books are not held in especially high regard"? By who - the people who don't hold his books in high regard? So, anyone that holds his books in high regard must be part of the "lot of fans" and are therefore removed from the category of people whose regard is consequential?)

91iansales
Dec 21, 2010, 4:05 am

Fans tend to be uncritical readers. Reverse snobbery doesn't make Asher's books any better, either.

92Noisy
Dec 21, 2010, 4:14 am

Well, I enjoyed The Gabble and Other Stories (and wish I'd written a review, now), so I was expecting something of the same quality. Perhaps it was the verbosity that let Cowl down. Perhaps he's better in more condensed form. I'll find out over time.

93iansales
Dec 21, 2010, 4:31 am

His story in Conflicts was rubbish.

94pgmcc
Dec 21, 2010, 5:11 am

#90 Brightcopy

Agreed. He's not literature; he's the kind of author that is actually enjoyment to read instead of a chore.

So it's true, a book is not really literary unless it is a chore to read. I was starting to think I was the only person who suspected that.

95iansales
Dec 21, 2010, 5:12 am

Er, it's not the book, it's the reader.

96sf_addict
Dec 21, 2010, 6:43 am

Re Asher's books: sometimes its good to kick back and have fun. But having said that Gridlinked didn't quite do it for me the way that Prador Moon did.

97iansales
Dec 21, 2010, 7:08 am

Ha. That just shows you how different people's reactions to books can be. I thought Prador Moon was terrible, but I remember Gridlinked as okay. Of the ones I read, I thought The Skinner and Cowl were the best, but I gave up reading him after Brass Man.

98brightcopy
Dec 21, 2010, 10:16 am

91> Reverse snobbery doesn't make Asher's books any better, either.

So disagreeing with your blanket statement full of weasel words makes me a "reverse snob"? This just gets better and better!

That just shows you how different people's reactions to books can be.

If only you could apply this principle and realize that much of what you say is just subjective rather than some objective standard for what gets the Official Good Literature Stamp of Approval.

Cheers. :)

99iansales
Dec 21, 2010, 10:25 am

Enjoyment is subjective, quality is not (although there are some subjective criteria involved). If you can't handle "literature", it's not the books' fault.

I know more people who hold Asher's books in low regard than hold them in high regard. I have also seen many less-than-flattering reviews of his books.

Sneer all you want, it doesn't make them good books.

100brightcopy
Dec 21, 2010, 10:38 am

99> Enjoyment is subjective, quality is not (although there are some subjective criteria involved).

Quality is subjective. There's just a consensus view that is often mistaken for being "objective" simply because enough people's subjective opinions align in the same direction. It given an air of objectivity that ignores the entire history of what is considered proper literature.

I know more people who hold Asher's books in low regard than hold them in high regard. I have also seen many less-than-flattering reviews of his books.

And I can say the same thing about some of the books you've previously pointed out as the "correct" way of doing SF "literature" and the opposite about Asher and others you label as unworthy fodder good only for fans (a tautology there). Did it ever occur to you that maybe it depends on who you hang out with and the reviews you read?

If you can't handle "literature", it's not the books' fault.

Ah, yet again, attack the reader. Did it ever occur to you that I CAN handle books written in all sorts of styles? Currently I'm quite enjoying some Mark Twain. Perhaps he should be demoted from literature due to being a good read.

Sneer all you want, it doesn't make them good books.

You seem to be thinking I'm sneering. Far from it - I'm advocating NOT sneering at a book, and categorizing things into "literature" and "fan service" based mainly on the criteria of a certain writing style.

101iansales
Dec 21, 2010, 11:04 am

Quality is subjective.

Well, so much for all those people who study literature. not to mention all the critics out there. It's good to know their opinions are entirely worthless.

Ah, yet again, attack the reader.

I believe your comment about "weasel words" falls into the same category.

102brightcopy
Dec 21, 2010, 11:30 am

101> Well, so much for all those people who study literature. not to mention all the critics out there. It's good to know their opinions are entirely worthless.

And how you could possibly read that from a statement where I said there is often a CONSENSUS of opinion is really beyond me. Perhaps it is sometimes the fault of the reader after all...

I believe your comment about "weasel words" falls into the same category.

I'm not attacking the reader, I'm attacking your statement. I didn't call you a weasel or imply anything about you. How else would I possibly respond if I disagreed with your statement? Perhaps you just aren't familiar with what a "weasel word" is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word

"Weasel words is an informal term for words and phrases aimed at creating an impression that something specific and meaningful has been said, when in fact only a vague or ambiguous claim has been communicated."

Your original comment was chocked full of that. What does it actually mean that "Asher's books are not held in especially high regard"? By whom exactly? What is the actual quantification of this beyond "some unspecified group of people somewhere"? And how about "He sells well, and he has a lot of fans, but no one's ever claimed his books were anywhere near the top-end, literature-wise, in the genre. " Who is this nebulous "no one" of which you speak? Do you have some kind of survey going?

Your original post was just some vague personal opinion that you tried dressing up to give it a sense of authority. It simply falls apart upon logical examination. And then you try to couch that analysis of what you said as an attack on you? Well, in that if someone says something foolish and someone else points it out, it doesn't reflect well on the speaker - sure.

103johnnyapollo
Dec 21, 2010, 12:27 pm

For an author who is so "poorly regarded" (sic) there are an awful lot of fans and owners of said books on LT. Both "snobbery" and attacks aside, books that sell and are read are more highly regarded than those that aren't, in my opinion. The masses decide who is kept in print and what authors continue to be published.

104geneg
Dec 21, 2010, 12:36 pm

Have you looked around lately? The masses are responsible for all this shit. I don't think applying to the masses for anything is a winning strategy.

105brightcopy
Dec 21, 2010, 12:52 pm

103> I'm not unsympathetic to the opinion that popularity does not equal quality. For example, I thought Perdido Street Station was terribly written. However, the only thing I have to go by to gauge popular opinion - ratings and reviews on sites like this and Amazon - gives it a glowing recommendation. So clearly, I am going against popular opinion on this one. From the excerpts of some of Dan Brown's works, I feel like there would be a similar situation with his books and the popular opinion.

However, I think the difference is that I realize that everything is subjective, and it's completely dependent on the pool of people who are sampling as to what the outcome will be. Sometimes that largest pool agrees with me, sometimes not.

And sometimes, it's easy to confuse the style of the writing with the content of the story. A story can have compelling content, but be written in a style that's not for any particular reader or vice versa. Sometimes a story can have severe logical errors and characters who can quite arguably act in ways that are out of character, and yet still be considered great by most people. Shakespeare is a good example of this last one. That doesn't make his works suitable only for "fans" who will lap anything up simply because he wrote it. It is actually possible to be a "fan" of someone's writing BECAUSE of the quality of the writing, not in spite of it.

106sf_addict
Dec 21, 2010, 2:22 pm

Despite what you say ian quality in a book IS subjective- it must be or we'd all like the same books! Just because a book is quality theres no guarantee of enjoyment!

107randalhoctor
Dec 21, 2010, 7:05 pm

First; I'll begin with saying that english lit 101 was nearly thirty years ago. Secondly, I've read books, poems, essays etc. that I thought were exceptionally well-crafted. Even beyond a piece of writting making an impression of quality upon myself, there are times when I can point to specific literary devices elements being used skillfully. This is as close as I come to any objective criterion for determining a books worth.

108randalhoctor
Dec 21, 2010, 7:31 pm

That having been said (107) I like the Neal Asher I've read. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

A thick filet mignon topped with blue cheese is truly wonderful, but a big old bacon cheese burger is pretty wonderful too.

109jjwilson61
Dec 21, 2010, 9:18 pm

I prefer a story that I can lose myself in. If the language draws attention to itself, that's a problem.

110brightcopy
Dec 21, 2010, 9:25 pm

109> That's the primary problem I had with Perdido Street Station. I had no prejudices against Mieville, either. But within the first chapter, I felt myself thinking "you've got to be kidding me." But clearly, it's quite popular. So I'm pretty satisfied to realize that my own opinion just didn't line up with the general crowd this time.

111bakabaka84
Dec 23, 2010, 3:03 am

Reading The Rocket to the Moon by Thea Von Harbou a bit pulpy so far but an interesting read with a bit of 1920's hard science and German romanticism mixed in.

112johnnyapollo
Dec 23, 2010, 10:12 am

Currently reading the Algebraist...

113RobertDay
Dec 24, 2010, 11:37 am

Johnnyapollo, me too! What do you think of it so far?

114pgmcc
Dec 24, 2010, 11:56 am

#112 q
I really enjoyed The Algebraist. I hope you do too.

115randalhoctor
Dec 24, 2010, 9:41 pm

#112 +114
Ditto :-)

116randalhoctor
Dec 24, 2010, 9:55 pm

Still reading Spin State. Really enjoying it.

Listened to Valis by Philip K Dick and totally enjoyed the metaphysical weirdness. IMO this is one you either love or hate. I plan to do the Valis Trilogy.

117trandism
Dec 25, 2010, 3:35 am

Finished Excession..

Next is Lullaby

Excession was the best Culture novel I've read so far

118AlanPoulter
Dec 25, 2010, 5:43 am


>115 randalhoctor:
Triple ditto!

119johnnyapollo
Dec 25, 2010, 9:43 am

I also liked Excession quite a bit - just starting Algebraist and haven't made it too far - preparing for a holiday party (today) is taking its toll on my reading time!

120FicusFan
Edited: Dec 25, 2010, 11:40 am

I have read Nekropolis by Tim Waggoner, which I enjoyed. The Iron Khan by Liz Williams (only out in ebook now), which I also enjoyed.

Now reading The Alchemy of Stone by Ekaterina Sedia

121randalhoctor
Dec 26, 2010, 12:28 pm

117> Yeah, it is. I read Excession recently. It was a blast. Decided to listen to it on audio sometime soon (and Consider Phlebas for the same reason and because his Culture books have been handle well on audio).

122RobertDay
Dec 27, 2010, 12:19 pm

Enjoying 'The Algebraist' - the universe is rich and exotic and as interesting in its own way as the Culture.

123trandism
Dec 27, 2010, 12:43 pm

122> I'm planning to read the algebraist in January. I imposed a rule on me not to read 2 Iain Banks' books in a row :)

124FicusFan
Dec 27, 2010, 4:12 pm

I enjoyed The Alchemy of Stone by Ekaterina Sedia.

Then read Hunter's Moon by David Devereux. Quick read, not PC, spies and magic.

Now starting Candle in a Bottle by Carolyn Ives Gilman

125rgurskey
Dec 29, 2010, 12:26 pm

Finished Darker Tides by Eric Frank Russell. It is a collection of some of his "weird" stories, and some of them are quite weird.

126kritzberg
Dec 30, 2010, 5:44 am

#122

Only recently started reading Banks -- seen 'im on the bookshelves for years, but just never got around to it. Then The Algebraist leaped off the shelf into my hands and I decided I liked this guy's world-building chops. So now I'm reading all the Culture novels in a row -- I'm up to Excession, after Consider Phlebas, Player of Games, and Use of Weapons.

That's how I like to do it when I run across a new author -- consume the canon. The only problem is I've been digging around looking for other works and I've run across a whole slew (perhaps half a slew) of authors I've only touched on before and now I'm teeing up their canons. So many books, so little time.

127trandism
Dec 30, 2010, 5:59 am

Welcome to LT kritzberg :) I'd love to see your library catalogued some day.
Re Banks I'm on the same path as you.. Reading everything by him but never two in a row. I read sth else between 2 Banks books. Wish you fun around here

128Shrike58
Dec 30, 2010, 6:50 am

Finished Maelstrom (C) yesterday evening, mostly just to see what device by which the author gets his heroes out of their desperate situation. While I don't want to use a sledgehammer on a walnut, this series just got to be a chore, despite the author starting out with an interesting scenario. I found the American mutiny subplot to be unconvincing, the commander of Japanese warship was too cartoonish an antagonist, and there are a few other little details that grated on me. This is especially in response to the characteristics of Anderson's take on the battlecruiser "Amagi."

129pgmcc
Dec 30, 2010, 7:57 am

#126 Welcome Kritzberg.

#126 & #127 I hope you enjoy your reading of Iain Banks works.

Consider Phlebas was my first introduction to his writing. I enjoyed it so much I read what was then his only other published work, The Wasp Factory.

I was hooked, and have been in the happy position of reading his works as the were published.

I bought Surface Detail when it came out, but my wife snatched it from my hands and said, "Great, I'll wrap this up and you can have it at Christmas."

Like Trandism, I look forward to seeing Kritzberg's library catalogued.

130randalhoctor
Edited: Dec 30, 2010, 9:11 pm

#126 Yah. Welcome Kritzberg. Wikipedia has a surprizing amount on the Culture. This includes explanations of nomenclature such as the prefixes of ship names like ROU stands for Rapid Offensive Unit, and so on. I really like Look to Windward. Iain M Banks is one of my top 3 authors.

I put Alastair Reynolds (Chasm City Redemption Space etc.) in the same sub-genre as Banks, but pgmcc or iansales may disagree.

131pinprick
Dec 31, 2010, 3:02 am

I'm tearing through Finch, by Jeff VanderMeer at a terrific rate. I'm in love love love with Ambergris! It's gotten so bad that I made a lot of knit mushrooms this month and have been keeping a list of all the Ambergrisian t-shirts I want to make. (Who wouldn't look great in a Hoegbotton & Sons shirts?). I've been trying to write a review of City of Saints and Madmen for what feels like forever; it feels like there's so much to say about it, and even though I just read it, there are so many different layers that I think it might be one of those books that a person has to read twice before it can be reviewed well. Honestly, given how much I'm enjoying both books, I'm surprised it took me this long to read them. Viva Ambergris!

132pgmcc
Dec 31, 2010, 4:04 am

#130 randalhoctor

I put Alastair Reynolds (Chasm City Redemption Space etc.) in the same sub-genre as Banks, but pgmcc or iansales may disagree.

I can't speak for iansales but I don't get too hung up on categorisations; also, I've only read (and enjoyed) one Alastair Reynolds book Century Rain, so couldn't comment stronlgly on the matter anyway.

As you can tell from my library and comments, I am very keen on Iain Banks' books, with or without the "M"; Look to Windward is a particular favourite of mine.

133Shrike58
Dec 31, 2010, 4:45 pm

Just finished Queen of Candesce (A) this afternoon; a good follow-up to the opening book of the series.

Happy New Year all.

134RobertDay
Jan 1, 2011, 11:41 am

> 122: And when I posted that, I hadn't even met the Dwellers!

135RobertDay
Jan 1, 2011, 11:41 am

This message has been deleted by its author.

136pgmcc
Jan 1, 2011, 12:55 pm

#134 I love the Dwellers!

137johnnyapollo
Jan 1, 2011, 2:04 pm

The Algebraist thus far has been a blast - love many aspects of the novel - he has Swift down pat, and the battles are so "Iron Men and Wooden Ships" it harkens on Steampunk in its feel. The book is winding down to the climax - normally I would have finished by now but have had many interruptions this holiday season...

138drmamm
Jan 1, 2011, 3:04 pm

FINALLY finished The Naked God and therefore the Night's Dawn Trilogy, by Peter F. Hamilton. The series was a bit uneven (dragged in the middle), but I liked the ending, even if it received a lot of criticism (hard to explain why without a million spoilers). Makes you think a lot about death. I tried to time the finish with the New Year, but missed the cut by 30 minutes. All in all, a good series, but I liked the first two Commonwealth books (Pandoras/Judas) better. You could tell he had more books under his belt when he wrote the later series.

The Evolutionary Void is staring at me from the bookshelf (which is struggling to support all 700 pounds of it), but I may take a break from Hamilton for a while.

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