Tarot Readings Are Quicker; or, Understanding the Arts Through Tarot Cards

When it was revealed that both Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung were "into" tarot cards, I immediately realized that they — meaning tarot cards — were okay. Sort of like the guy who was standing in the seemingly endless line before The Pearly Gates — which were not even visible yet from his vantage point — and who was impatient to find the Answer to The Burning Question, asked the spirit of the dead immediately behind him in line to hold his place while he ran a reconnaissance mission up to the front of the line. Several days later he could be seen in the distance running back to his place, yelling and waving his arms, but it wasn't until he got close that his placeholder heard him screaming: Fornication is okay! Fornication is okay!

So, since tarot cards are "okay" in the Campbellian and Jungian sense, if not the intellectual and hoity-toity sense, I'm thinking we could use them to advantage here in Le Salon to ferret out the inner meanings of our individual and collective relationships with the arts. This may provide the shortcut we have all been searching for!

So would everybody please give us a list of your favorite authors, books, movies, paintings, mountains, or even streetcars — whatever comes to mind — and then we can pair them up with tarot cards and presto! chango! If all goes according to plan, we will experience a collective epiphany of sorts. Everybody is encouraged to list, comment and do tarot readings at will. No rules are allowed. No special understanding of tarot cards is necessary. After all, they represent archetypal images from the collective unconscious sphere, and should readily provide insights both expected and unexpected. Illustrations from your favorite tarot deck are welcome. I have no idea where this is going, but please, dive right in!

Let the games begin!

Here's my list:

Actors — Buster Keaton, Lawrence Olivier, Vivien Leigh, Cary Grant, Alec Guinness, Marlene Dietrich, Meryl Streep, Emma Thompson, Jeremy Brett, Jeremy Irons, Jeremy Northam

Directors —Jean Cocteau, Alfred Hitchcock, John Huston, James Ivory, David Lean

Writers — Plato, Shakespeare, Melville, Ibsen, Terence Rattigan, Joseph Campbell, Louis Carroll

Dancers — Fred Astaire, Ginger Rogers

Composers — Handel, Mozart, Schubert, Mahler, Richard Wagner, Monteverdi, John Barry, Patrick Doyle,
Singers — Beverly Sills, Marilyn Horne, Placido Domingo, Paul Robeson, David Daniels

Movies — La Belle et la Bete, Top Hat, Casablanca, Maltese Falcon, Amadeus

Operas/Oratorios — L'Orfeo, Lucia, Theodora, Magic Flute, Ring Cycle

Theaters — Carnegie Hall, Severance Hall

Mountains — The Matterhorn, The Magic Mountain

(Streetcars — A Streetcar Named Desire)

Flowers — Anemones (the big red ones with black centers)

Whatever . . .

Poquette, thanks for starting this very important thread.

Question:

are crystal balls (not that I have any. mine are fury) and navel gazing allowed?
Yours in anticipation of great events.

Till later then, anon.

I have a beautiful navel and gaze at it often. I am also a certified navel gazer instructor. I will be back presently. First I must compose a nonlist of categories which I wish to fill with other nonlists. This is a complicated and difficult procedure and can only be accomplished via integrated zen navel gazing and pilates. Do not try this at home without a certified instructor. When I emerge from this deep process, I will have achieved urlistlessness, which I will (given my generous nature) share with all.

>3 QuentinTom: Crystal balls are welcome, as are any divinatory devices. I chose tarot cards merely because they are so colorful and carry the all-important archetypal images. But what the heck, we can use our imaginations, can't we?

>4 urania1: are crystal balls (not that I have any. mine are fury) and navel gazing allowed?

Navel gazing is allowed so long as you post a picture.

But please don't forget we are juxtaposing our comments in relation to great or lesser works of art in an all important search for "meaning." If meaning comes to you through other means, by all means, flash it before us! We solicit all inspiration, no matter the source.

Poquette,

Thanks for your really inspiring comments. I feel somehow lightened and enlightened at the same time. For the first time in my long and troubled life I feel as if I am on the brink of achieving urlistlessness. Oh and thank you all for being so supportive. I feel surrounded by love and ommm.

Urania — such a lovely name. So pleased we can oblige. ;-)

But . . .

I said there were no rules. But where are your lists, Peuple? Puleeeeeze! I mean, how can you be publicly psychoanalyzed without a LIST?????

Here's my list:

New Age avant la lettre:

Jung
Campbell
Boethius

Robert (my signature, not a member of the list; I was New Age apres la lettre)

I'm really not supposed to be here, but how could I resist such a beautiful thread of lambasting as this? This was and maybe still is the heart and soul of le Salon: satire and skewering....

Mountains

My favorite mountain is Over the Mountain by Ozzy.

Pay special attention to the genius of what Randy Rhoads does at 2:54 -- 3:00 (advice for maybe the .25 of you who'll actually click on the link) and the lyrics, coincidentally, are rather apropos of such a tasty thread.

Is that a crystal ball he is covering with his not-so-bare hands? The crystal ball can be equated with the suit of Discs or Coins.

Speaking of archetypal images . . . is this The Magician?

Ah, yes, Boethius, so dear to my heart. Peuple, did you know Boethius was the first in Western Lit to speak of a "wheel" of fortune? As tarot cards go, this one takes the cake!

"Having entrusted yourself to Fortune's dominion, you must conform to your mistress's ways. What, are you trying to halt the motion of her whirling wheel? Dimmest of fools that you are, you must realize that if the wheel stops turning, it ceases to be the course of chance."

—Boethius, Consolation of Philosophy Book 2:1

Others picked up the image*:

Marlowe (Tamburlaine) "I hold the Fates found fast in iron chains / and with my hand turn Furtune's wheel about."

Marlowe (Edward II) "Base Fortune, now I see that in thy wheel / There is a point to which when men aspire / They tumble headlong down."

Shakespeare (Henry VI part 3) "Though Fortune's malice overthrow my state / My mind exceeds the compass of her wheel."

Ariosto (Orlando Furioso) and Spenser ("Daphnaida"): the inexorably turning wheel used primarily as an image of the impermanence of worldly wealth and success, a very Boethian notion.

Tennyson ("The Marriage of Geraint" in Idylls of the King) "Turn, Fortune, turn thy wheel with smile or frown, / With that wild wheel we go not up or down . . . / Thy wheel and thee we neither love nor hate."

W.H. Auden ("In Time of War") "Abruptly mounting her ramshackle wheel, / Fortune has pedalled furiously away."

(*Cribbed from another thread. ;-)

Tricky Dick! Who said you shouldn't be here? I'm expecting great things from you! And thank you for your contribution! ♥♥♥

Wunnerful, wunnerful! Bravo, tomcat! You have incredible aptitude for a cat!

*getting a bit tipsy on champagne and caviar*

"list of your favorite authors, books, movies, paintings, mountains, or even streetcars"

I'll be short, here is a shortlist

Mann, Golding, Joyce, Flaubert
Magic Mountain, Brothers Karamazov, The inheritors, Salammbo, Ulysses
Apocaypse Now ( the first non edited, non directors cutted version ), Aguire, everything by Herzog ( I like movies where rivers play a central part )
Werner Herzog, ( I wish I was Werner Herzog ) Coppola,
The Flemish primitifs, Caravaggio, ( religious painting in general )
Kilimanjaro, Mount Pélee, Popocatepetl
Giuseppe Tartini from the devil sonate, Bob Marley, any black woman singer

i have no favorite streetcar.

( Poquetje, either you never sleep, or you have cloned yourself, where do you get the time ? )

btw If you like tarot cards, Italo Calvino has written a book where he got his inspiration by laying out Tarot cards in front of him. It is called Il castello dei destini incrociati, The Castle of Crossed Destinies

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Castle_of_Crossed_Destinies

Italo Calvino is a very interesting writer for those who don't know him.

Oh Mac,

One of my favorite books. It would go on the list . . . if I had one.

Excellent list, Mac! There is much food for thought there. Can't wait to start analyzing!

So far you and Mr. Durick have provided enough food for a feast. And I did not properly acknowledge you, Robert, except to jump straight into Boethius, I was so excited to see his name. Of course, Campbell and Jung — and now Boethius — are the mascots of this thread.

Mac, I'm somewhere between 8 and 10 hours behind you. I go to bed very late, and sleep late to make up for it. At this moment it is 9:55 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time. Just for reference.

Tarots. The Visconti Pack in Bergamo and New York by Italo Calvino

I have this in my library. Love Calvino! Should have him on my list!

Did someone mention Charles Williams? Another pregnant source.

Can I do one at a time?
artists first: Paula Modersohn Becker, Kathe Kollwitz, Alice Neal, Leanard Baskin, Maurice Sendak

I can always resist another list but here goes

favourite authors
J K Rowling
J R R Tolkein
Merman Helville
Dan Brown
Tom Clancy
Clive Cussler

Favourite books
Bible
Koran
C

Favourite movies
The plague of zombies
Zombie High
Zombie Honeymoon
Zombie night 2
Zombies, zombies, zombies
Zombie Mama Mia
Zombies at St Trinians
Zombie E T

Favourite Directors
Steven Spielburg
Michael Winner

Favourite musicians
Niel Diamond
Paul Simon
Noel and Liam Gallagher
Herbie Mann
Abba
Bruce Springsteen
Liberace
Russ Conway
Mrs Mills

Favourite Actor
Arnold Schwarzenegger
Ronald Reagan
George Bush
Steven Seagal
Chuck Norris
Hugh Grant
Brendan Fraser
Sarah Jessica Parker

Favourite Underground Line
The Northern LIne

Favourite Lawyer
I love 'em all

Favourite Builder
Bob

the northern line.......lol

memories. my god, bas!

bas,

Let me break my quest for urlistlessnes to complement you on a list that reveals a high degree of sanity and dare I be so elitist as to call brilliant. Breathlessly awaiting Solla's tarot interpretation.

I have always been fond of anonymous, though she doesn't make enough movies.

Bas, I am stunned

baswood in 2012!

Queen

My favorite queen, besides Freddie Mercury, is ...

The Dancing Queen! (w/mispeled lyrics, for easier comprehension!)

memory sparked by bas' mention of ABBA.

I'm just temporarily missing "the bright lights" of Muse's brilliant History addendum. I'll be back in my "rude hut" shortly...."shortly," of course, is a relative term.

Somebody read my palms! They're sweating. What does it mean?

Hey Gang! Glad to see everyone is having fun! ;-)

Thank you for joining us, Solla, Barry and A-Musing. Thanks everyone for your very thoughtful — might I say provocative? — and imaginative lists. We are all excited to see where this is taking us! Things are progressing faster than I could have imagined!

Dick, the sweaty palms may indicate Pentacles in your future — but read on.

Okay, Peuple! Can't think how I could have forgotten this: We all need to choose a Tarot card to represent ourselves.

If you are a Tarot afficionado, you probably already have a card in mind. Please post an image. Any Tarot deck will be fine. Failing an actual Tarot image, any iconic image that you relate to will do. By "iconic image," I mean something like #10 above.

If you are not a Tarot afficionado, there are many pictorial references on line. Follow your instincts and select an image that pleases you. To help in your selection you can ask the following question:

Are you a Senser, Thinker, Feeler, or Intuiter?

In the world of Tarot, the suits are associated with these areas:

Sensation – sense perception – Suit of Pentacles
Thinking – analysis – Suit of Swords
Feeling – evaluating – Suit of Cups
Intuition – clairevoyance – Suit of Wands

The Major Arcana all constitute archetypal images with ancient connections and understanding. If you relate to one of those, pick one you relate to. Otherwise, a court card from one of the suits will be ideal.

If this sounds vaguely Jungian, it probably is. More about Jung in due course.

After I post my Tarot image, I have to go play a poker tournament! But I'll be baaaaaack! Keep posting, Peuple! This is YOUR thread! Make of it what you will!

The High Priestess is my personal card. But of course, that figures, doesn't it?

Robert

cumulative :
artists first: Paula Modersohn Becker, Kathe Kollwitz, Alice Neal, Leanard Baskin, Maurice Sendak

movies: MY life as a dog; la strada; Fanny and Alexander

I'm also quite partial to the hanged man

Lists, lists, lists

Authors: Aristophanes, Ovid, Plotinus, Pseudo-Dionysius, Plotinus, Augustine, Boethius, The Pearl poet, Dante, Chaucer, St. John of the Cross, Shakespeare, Cervantes, Austen, Blake, the Anti-Wordsworth, Kafka, Faulkner

Plays: King Lear, Lysistrata, The Frogs, The Revenger's Tragedy, Measure for Measure, The Tempest, Bartholomew Fair, Hedda Gabler, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Agamemnon, No Exit, Hamlet, The Bald Soprano, Endgame

Movies: Annie Hall, The Seventh Seal, Saw II, Stripes

Prose Fiction: Absalom, Absalom!, Bleak House, Sense and Sensibility, Persuasion, Don Quixote, Alexander and the terrible horrible no good very bad day

Cities: London, San Francisco, Chicago, New York, Rome, Yoknapatawpha County

Instruments: Piano, acoustic guitar, African drums, bassoon, electric guitar, banjo

Animals: Hippos

Nonsense words: Yawp, bleh, giggity, freep, discourse

Poquette, don't you think at this point it would be really helpful if you could give us a detailed summary of all the posts so far, preferably in an extremely patronising tone?

Great lists everyone, I will be doing my own list shortly.

More anon then....

Okay, Peuple, so much to say. My goodness!

Robert and, by proxy, solla, your selection of The Hanged Man as a personal icon shows us that you have an unusual ability to see between people's legsfrom a completely different vantage point all the BS about us and the topsy-turvey nature of life in the modern world. That trick you do with your legs that looks like the all important numeral 4 while suspended upside down is pretty cool as well!

wrmjr, so pleased to see you here, and I am hyperventillating over your list! Not that I haven't been hyperventillating all along. Unfortunately, hyperventillation doesn't show up very well on the printed page. I'm really not the gushy sort except for unusual circumstances, and well, let's not go there. But I'll try to gush more in future so you'll know that I'm in an elevated state. The best Tarot readings are conducted in an elevated state. But you probably knew that.

Looking back through your lists . . . I am also salivating over all the forthcoming analysis that will be forthcoming before the forthcoming week, unless I am interrupted by the forthcoming exigencies of life, as so often happens. But we shall do what we can. That is all we can hope for.

Tomcat . . . summarizing??? What??? And rewrite what has already been posted and is right there for you all to read in the original??? Sorry, I love reminiscing as I am the romantic type as you probably knew what with my affinity with Boethius and all that, but I don't think summarizing at this time is called for. Perhaps later on I'll do a spread sheet and pass it around . . . somehow . . . we can deal with that later.

As for a patronizing tone, hmmm, haven't I already been patronizing enough? I'll have to work on that. It is very important that you all realize what an authority I am in the field under discussion. A quick perusal of my library will show that I personally own more books on Tarot than probably anyone on LT. And Joseph Campbell and Carl Jung — and Boethius for heavens sake — are not far behind. I was working on a special certificate in Tarot Reading from the Brotherhood of the Adytum (B.O.T.A.), but it turned out the group I became affiliated with was an unauthorized chapter. So I would have had to start all over and the heck with that! So here we are. This does in no way reflect negatively on my authority with respect to Tarot cards.

More later, dear friends . . .

Francesco Clemente's "The Fool"

This just in from The New Yorker: "Francesco Clemente’s New York City Tarot Cards"

New York artist, Francesco Clemente, has created a set of 78 mixed media Tarot images featuring drawings of well-known people who are among his personal friends as described by Calvin Tompkins in The New Yorker. It will be shown at the Uffizi Gallery in Florence opening in September. Edward Albee sat for the Emperor, Salman Rushdie is the King of Swords while Scarlett Johansson is the Queen, Jasper Johns is the Pope. Clemente, himself, is the Fool.

If you are as fond of Francesco Clemente as I am you will enjoy viewing a slide show posting some of his cards. Check it out:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2011/08/tarot-cards-francesco-cle...

Peuple, did you all know that T.S. Eliot wrote a little ditty concerning Tarot cards?

Madame Sosostris, famous clairvoyante,
Had a bad cold, nevertheless
Is known to be the wisest woman in Europe,
With a wicked pack of cards. Here, said she,
Is your card, the drowned Phoenician Sailor,
(Those are pearls that were his eyes. Look!)
Here is Belladonna, the Lady of the Rocks,
The lady of situations. . . .



Here is the man with three staves . . .



and here the Wheel . . .



And here is the one-eyed merchant . . .



and this card,
Which is blank, is something he carries on his back,
Which I am forbidden to see. I do not find
The Hanged Man. . .



Fear death by water.
I see crowds of people, walking round in a ring.
Thank you. If you see dear Mrs. Equitone,
Tell her I bring the horoscope myself:
One must be so careful these days.

—T.S. Eliot, from The Waste Land, 1922

Francesco Clemente's "The World"

Speaking of Hermaphrodites — which we weren't, but no matter — Jung had this to say:

“Another strange field of occult experience in which the hermaphrodite appears is the Tarot. That is a set of playing cards, such as were originally used by the gypsies. There are Spanish specimens, if I remember rightly, as old as the fifteenth century. These cards are really the origin of our pack of cards, in which the red and the black symbolize the opposites, and the division of four—clubs, spades, diamonds, and hearts—also belongs to the individuation symbolism. They are psychological images, symbols with which one plays, as the unconscious seems to play with its contents. They combine in certain ways, and the different combinations correspond to the playful development of events in the history of mankind. The original cards of the Tarot consist of the ordinary cards, the king, the queen, the knight, the ace, etc.,—only the figures are somewhat different—and besides, there are twenty-one cards upon which are symbols, or pictures of symbolical situations. For example, the symbol of the sun, or the symbol of the man hung up by the feet, or the tower struck by lightning, or the wheel of fortune, and so on. Those are sort of archetypal ideas, of a differentiated nature, which mingle with the ordinary constituents of the flow of the unconscious, and therefore it is applicable for an intuitive method that has the purpose of understanding the flow of life, possibly even predicting future events, at all events lending itself to the reading of the conditions of the present moment. It is in that way analogous to the I Ching, the Chinese divination method that allows at least a reading of the present condition. You see, man always felt the need of finding an access through the unconscious to the meaning of an actual condition, because there is a sort of correspondence or a likeness between the prevailing condition and the condition of the collective unconscious.

“Now in the Tarot there is a hermaphroditic figure called the diable The Devil card.

"That would be in alchemy the gold. In other words, such an attempt as the union of opposites appears to the Christian mentality as devilish, something evil which is not allowed, something belonging to black magic.”

—Visions: Notes of the Seminar given in 1930-1934 by C. G. Jung, edited by Claire Douglas. Vol. 2. (Princeton NJ, Princeton University Press, Bollingen Series XCIX, 1997), p. 923.

Jung had a quaint notion of the history of Tarot, but he can be forgiven for having seen in them only their archetypal and even divinatory value. By the way, I think The World was also a hermaphroditic figure.

From time to time I put in bold type what I think are key words that will interest many of you.

35> Please! Stop making me howl. My reserve of howls has emptied out fast today.

Listen, is this Le Salon Tarot Court or what?

Well . . . humphhh! I say! Are you howling at the moon or what? Somehow I shall think of you when I see The Moon card in future.

BTW, you haven't picked your very own personal Tarot image! Please take a recess from your . . . er . . . howling, and make a selection. This is not a laughinghowling matter!

Speaking of Jung, If you have half an hour to kill, here is an historic portrait of Jung captured by the BBC a year or so before he died.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQNb23X8PRI&feature=related

And another thing . . . just to be clear about my status as an authority on Tarot, it will please me very much if you will all address me in future as "Madame Poquette."

I am sorry Madame Poquette but Gene Rules

whoa, have to revise my artist list. Now includes Francesco Clemente.

Years ago I read a book on the Jungian tarot that I wish I could find again, or even remember the title. You don't own that one by chance?

>43 baswood: Well, Barry, that being the case — both your statement and the implications of Giotto's personification of Foolishness, need anything further be said?

Jung and Tarot: An Archetypal Journey by Sallie Nichols (1980) Weiser Books

Would this be the book you had in mind, solla?

If I had known we'd be talking things hermaphroditic, I would have put some of my favorite Ganymede-inspired works on my lists. Oh well, maybe next time.

Lists may be revised, dumped, rewritten, folded, spindled or mutilated at any time and in any way.

May the lists be fondled . . .

I am playing with mine even as we speak...

>35 Poquette:

I INSIST ON BEING PAtRONISED IT IS MY RIGHT I DEMAND IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>37 Poquette:
I love this post, the illustrations really bring the poetry to life. Poquette, allow me to lick you.

*purr, purr* oh — that's supposed to be you!

Murr,

You are so sexist. List-less cats get stroked; listless women are called out for being disruptive. I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF MEN'S WHINING ABOUT BEING PATRONIZED. IT'S TIME FOR WOMEN TO STEP FORWARD AND DEMAND THEIR RIGHTS TO EQUAL PATRONIZATION. RIGHT NOW WOMEN (without lists) GET THE HONOR. AND THAT'S FINAL. If it's not clear to you what this thread entails, observe the others and learn from them. They are all quite splendid. If it turns out that you aren't on equal footing with everyone else, then I'm sure not only we two -- but everyone else -- will instantly recognize it, and we'll take steps to see the problem is swiftly resolved.

GET WITH THE PROGRAM CAT!!!

exits stage left (with list or tarot card) in a state of high dudgeon

well, really, I ask you. I was only asking for equal patronization rights!!! How dare you imply that I am sexist by doing so?!!! What about your inherent speciesism? why do you automatically assume that your species, even if you are only the female of that species, is above other species on the list waiting to be patronized? HOW ABOUT YOUR GOATS? EH???

WE DEMAND PATRONIZATION RIGHTS FOR ALL SPECIES TWO LEGS AND FOUR LEGS AND ALL SEXES SO THERE!!!!

exits stage right having ripped Madame Poquette Sosostris's veils and overturned the crystal ball in a state of suppressed sulks.

cue army of dancing cats carrying Mausers

Becalm thyselves, children!

tomcat, here is a lovely blue fish to entertain you! After you eat, I have a plush purple pillow tufted with shiny pearl buttons for you to play with and go to sleep.

Now I must go away and do some research . . .

urania, dear, don't allow yourself to be taken hostage by negative feelings, else I fear this could be your fate!

Recommendation: Say 3 Hail Queen of Hearts and take a long soak in a bubblebath.

Poquette, I submitted my list a few days ago. You promised something I think ?
Are you going to read my future ? my past ? my today ?

#46 that could be it,

perhaps Pekoe needs to join this thread to make sure female cats are adequately patronized

Pe-Koe! Pe-Koe! Pe-Koe!

Mac Darlin', I am SO sorry to be such a sloth in getting to the analysis of everyone's lists. I've been so busy reading books and doing reviews, this has all unfortunately taken second place in my priorities. Of course, there are several people who are ahead of you, but considering who you are and everything, I shall take you out of order and hope those who posted their lists before you will understand. I promise to get to all of you in due course.

Mac, it does not require doing a Tarot reading to extract from your list certain salient facts about you. However, I did ask the cards to confirm what I thought I already knew about you, and the most amazing cards came up. I did a three-card spread because you asked me to read your your past, today and the future. The cards that I drew were the following:


The Chariot, The Tower, and the VII of Cups

We know you are a kind of Renaissance Man as demonstrated by the wide variety of your interests. This is confirmed by the rich symbolism depicted in the first card, The Chariot. Your identification with Werner Herzog is suggestive. We can also see from this card that you are a man of great confidence and personal charisma and that you are seen in both your personal life and your business dealings as a strong leader. You have a strong and healthy ego and you are skilled in getting people to do what you want.

The Tower confirms that you may be prone to apocalyptic thinking and cultishness which can be seen in your highlighting of movies like Aguirre and Apocalypse Now, the Tartini selection and your preference for Dostoyevski. The obvious connection with Biblical symbolism also suggests an indirect connection to your interest in religious art.

The Tower is a fascinating card in the sense that it first of all evokes the idea of the destruction of the Tower of Babel. It definitely signals some sort of upheaval. But since Tarot cards deal in large part with the life of the mind, it has been said that important changes that occur in one's life can wreak violence on the psyche because it is human nature to resist change. So the Tower represents dramatic change that either you may be contemplating or have recently undergone that has caused a certain amount of consternation. However, because of your outstanding personal attributes, it is nothing you have not been able to handle.

We also know that you are a foward thinking individual as seen in your appreciation of avant garde literature. That you are an imaginative and creative thinker is demonstrated in the VII of Cups. (Cups are the antecedents of the suit of Hearts in our modern playing card decks.) Your creative spirit and energy will continue to fortify your endeavors throughout your life.

All in all this is a very positive group of cards that amazingly correspond with the items in the list you provided. Maybe there is something to these cards after all!

I especially like the tower...

thank you well Madame Poquette

Can anyone predict the next picture change for the salon?

oh Mackie, if I was 20 years younger and female, and slightly taller, I would beg you to marry me!
*Murr swoons. But gets a grip at the last moment.*

could I beg Madame Poquette Sosostris to hurry up and get to me ASAP please!

Dear little Tomkitten, I will gladly get to you but you haven't yet produced a list. It needn't be long and burdensome. But it's only fair. Mr. Durick, Tricky Dick, Barry and solla and wrmjr are ahead of you in line.

Once again, Peuple, I apologize for the delay. So many readings, so little time! And don't forget, I MUST be in an elevated state!

Barry, I am not in the gambling business even though I run off and play poker when the spirit moves me.

I am also not in the prediction business, my Tarot proclivities notwithstanding. The Tarot have never been very good at predicting the future for me. But what they are good at is affirmation. Those are the vibes that tend to reach me — when I am in an elevated state, of course!

Today I shall take you all through Mr. Durick — Robert's list. His is short and sweet and I relate one hundred percent to the names on his list. Somewhere I believe I have mentioned that I heard about Joseph Campbell and Tarot cards for the first time during a discussion about Carl Jung. This occurred, I believe, around 1970 if memory serves, which was at the very height of the New Age craze that overtook San Francisco in those heady post-hippie days. Well, maybe not completely post-hippie, but it was definitely the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. So, Robert, all these elements are tremendously interesting to me personally.

Because of who these people are — Campbell, Jung and also Boethius, another favorite of mine — I have selected the cards which I believe represent them rather than doing the customary random spread. When I first began jotting down notes for this discussion, I picked The Magician to represent Campbell. But then in thinking about Carl Jung, I thought The Magician was very apropos for him as well. So I crossed off The Magician next to Campbell's name and wrote The Emperor. But then in thinking about Jung some more, I thought of The World. Turning to Boethius, of course The Wheel of Fortune is absolutely the card to represent him, as this ancient image was transmitted into Western culture through The Consolation of Philosophy. But then I also thought The World had implications for Boethius as well.

The upshot is that I decided to list two cards for each of these men because they set up a sort of dialectic that informs their identity, but it also provides an interesting link among the three individuals. The concept of the New Age also gets two cards, The Hermit and The Star, partly for the sake of symmetry. Here are images of the six cards from a New Age-inspired Tarot deck:



1 The Magician, 4 The Emperor



9 The Hermit, 10 Wheel of Fortune



17 The Star, 21 The World

Just to summarize which cards are associated with whom:

Carl Jung: 1 The Magician and 21 The World
Joseph Campbell: 1 The Magician and 4 The Emperor
Boethius: 10 The Wheel of Fortune and 21 The World
New Age: 9 The Hermit and 17 The Star

I have been assuming thus far that everyone is familiar with the standard Tarot deck, which consists of four suits of 14 cards each and a special grouping of 22 cards commonly referred to as the Major Arcana. These 22 cards are particularly pregnant with images that we tend to think of as archetypal, thanks to Jung and Campbell, among others. All of the above cards are from the Major Arcana. This discussion will seem oversimplified, largely because it is, but please ask questions if you want clarification.

With respect to Carl Jung, The Magician and The World represent the beginning and the end of what one might think of as a heroic quest, The Magician signifying a great teacher and The World signifying attainment. Jung has been an important resource in our modern understanding of the archetypal nature of the many steps along the way from education, through trials and eventual attainment of the heroic quest, whether spiritual or physical.

Joseph Campbell has also been a key figure in that educational process particularly with respect to our mythological heritage, and this is why The Magician is an important card to represent him. The Emperor represents a benevolent masculine principle and suggests King Arthur, the mythology of the Holy Grail and the idea of the hero's quest. Interestingly, this was the card actually selected to represent Campbell in a published Tarot reading.

In addition to the obvious connection of Boethius with The Wheel of Fortune alluded to above, The World also seems appropriate because in his Consolation of Philosophy, Boethius worked out philosophically an acceptance of the catastrophic reversal of fortune he had suffered, and in the end he embraced his fate and what the world had given to him during his lifetime.

Your affirmative embrace, Robert, of the New Age indicates you are someone who looks forward rather than dwelling in the past. This is confirmed in your selection of Campbell and Jung, who were both icons of the Sixties at the dawning of the Age of Aquarius. The Star is associated with Aquarius and so it is an obvious choice as a New Age icon. The Hermit, who may be thought of as lighting the way for the questor, is backlit by a six-pointed star, and may be thought of as prefiguring a raising of consciousness engendered by The Star, another aspect of New Age thinking.

Clearly, you have selected Jung, Campbell and Boethius because they have touched you in some way. As you think about these interconnections among them and the inspiration that they may have imparted to the New Age, I believe you will see even more connections among them. Their writings have significance for you that you don't need me to point out.

Ugh! I'm afraid I got carried away and probably told you more than you wanted to know. All kidding aside on this one.

#66 Pretty cards

don't apologise, it's all fascinating stuff. I always wanted to know more about tarot. and I love the illustrations as well.

In the world of Tarot, the suits are associated with these areas:

Sensation – sense perception – Suit of Pentacles
Thinking – analysis – Suit of Swords
Feeling – evaluating – Suit of Cups
Intuition – clairevoyance – Suit of Wands


Are they really Suzanne? In which case was Jung influenced in his construction of the personality types by the Tarot pack?

As a stalwart of the rival Ruyle thread, which is EQUALLY as exciting, I hope I can join in here as well. Both have so, so much to offer....

Hi Zeno! Very nice to see you here. What rival thread? Everyone is welcome. As stated above, no rules. We started out on a nonsensical note, we can continue in that vein or be serious or both. I prefer the latter. Feel free to post a list if you wish, an iconic image, or whatever pleases you.

The associations you noted above relate to the ancient notion of the four elements as air, fire, earth and water, and the subsequent association of these elements with the four humors of blood, yellow bile, black bile and phlegm. The Tarot suits are associated with the four elements and consequently with the four humors, which Jung used in developing his personality types.

In Tarot parlance, the notions of sensing, thinking, etc., are not really about personality types so much as the impact of the respective suits in the context of a reading on those aspects of a situation, a relationship or whatever it is the reading is dealing with. It is just one of many sets of associations and there isn't total agreement among Tarot afficionados about which associations relate to what. But one has to pick what feels right and stick with it, as in so many esoteric realms. But the origin for both Tarot and Jung is in the ancient humors and elements.

See the following for more information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humorism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element

I'll post if I get a serious response!

And I mean DEAD serious. No flicker of a grin. I'm ... serious.

MM,

Seriously, when was the Salon ever deadly serious (with the exception of a certain thread, which shall remain unnamed, but which I would happily see march to another home). So get serious Martin.

Memo to Martini: JUST DO IT!

U,

Look what you've reduced me to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwxwUiDbRCk

Any way to get a still from that to post here? Lord love a duck!

Here's a long relevant article on readings and stuff.

Robert

I love the Wonderpets. Especially the episode where they confound your expectations by changing all the customary tunes phrases and actions. Also the lack of intrusive auto tuning.

I think 75 means Martin identifies with Tuck, Ming Ming and Linny. Make of it what you will. I'd like to be a Tuck (all about hugs) but I am more of a Ming Ming/Linny person, myself.

Also, nice read, Mr. D.!

Very interesting article, Robert. Hope you don't mind me highlighting a few things from it.

Crowley and Harris had attempted to take centuries of esoteric occult teachings and render them into a single deck of cards, whose regular use would, for the adept, also work as a kind of mnemonic exercise. Slowly you would learn, in other words, the relationships between ancient gods and goddesses, astrological signs, planets, alchemical sigils. Each card felt like it had the ability to be one of 78 windows into the secret life of the world, hidden somewhere beyond the air, under the skin of existence.

Indeed, from a Jungian standpoint, the cards can cause a movement from the unconscious to the conscious mind, and not merely the secret life of the world, but the secret life of the individual — secret even from himself.

Tarot is said to be an ancient system, but it is more a way of knowing ancient systems than an ancient system itself.

This is absolutely key.

The speech [Rachel Pollak's] used the cards as leaping-off points, weaving for us all a sense of the moment, not the future, that was powerful.

Using Tarot to try to predict the future is indeed a mistake.

authors: Homer, Ovid, John Milton, Sir Philip Sidney, Tennyson, Poe, Shel Silverstein

books: Black Jewels trilogy by Anne Bishop, Kushiel series by Jacqueline Carey, Rai Kirah and Lighthouse duology by Carol Berg, The Oyster and The Pearl - Victorian erotica, Wuthering Heights
(And yes, I noticed that it appears I read more female authors in my leisure)

movies (don't judge me): original, animated Disney-fairy tales, The Goonies, Taken, The A-team, The Last Unicorn, 16 Candles

operas: Gluck's and Monteverdi's adaptations for Orpheus; I prefer male voices; also Gluck's Alceste

paintings/sculpture: Botticelli's Birth of Venus and Primavera, Monet's Water Lily series, Rodin's The Kiss and Gates of Hell, relief of Orpheus, Eurydice, and Hermes

And of course I will also add my favorite tarot cards: I relate most to the Queen of Swords, and I love the way she is depicted in my personal decks.
I also love The Tower and Death cards, not just because they are beautifully done, because they are not always negative - as many assume at first glance. (If I was actually savvy enough to post them here I would, so everyone could see.)

Now that I've made a list, it's even more obvious that I'm a strange person...

<79 "Each card felt like it had the ability to be one of 78 windows into the secret life of the world, hidden somewhere beyond the air, under the skin of existence.
Tarot is said to be an ancient system, but it is more a way of knowing ancient systems than an ancient system itself.

This is absolutely key."

Well said. I've always thought that anyone who doesn't want to admit to things they should already know about themselves shouldn't even be near tarot cards. Tarot will not predict the future, but it can illuminate those things your mind has pushed to the back - if you are willing to look carefully.

Hello VivalaErin! Welcome to our little thread. Thanks for diving right in with a list. I'm slowly working my way through. If you've read through the thread, you have seen that we're having fun here, not taking ourselves too seriously. Glad to have another Tarot afficionado amonst us! Feel free to dive in with impressions, comments, pictures, links — whatever comes to mind.

P.S. There are no strange persons in this group!

Tricky Dick, you are next:

You say your favorite mountain is "Over the Mountai" by Ozzy Osbourne. But I suspect that is because you have The Magic Mountain on your mind by Thomas Mann.

Freddie Mercury — may he rest in peace. A moment of silence, please . . .



I thought of this image immediately, it captures so much . . . a true king of rock 'n role (notwithstanding he WAS Queen), he delivered real emotion, and he shone like few others have.

Not too many dancing queens in Tarot decks, but this one looks like she wants to . . .



And as I mentioned, there may be Pentacles in your future!

Dancing, Queens, Mountains, all point toward your elevated sensitivity to all things artistic. It doesn't take a Tarot reading to see that you are one of the most creative, imaginative and intelligent guys we know!

The World is your oyster . . .

Tarot Card of the Day . . .



The subject of goats, goat fodder, old goats and urania's goats has been floating around in the ether here in Le Salon.

Here we have the antithesis of urania's goats — make no mistake!

Quoting P.D. Ouspensky, that icon of occultism and esoterica:

Black awful night enveloped the earth. An ominous red flame hurned in the distance. I was approaching a fantastic figure which outlined itself before me as I came nearer to it. High above the earth appeared the repulsive red face of the Devil, with large, hairy ears, pointed beard and curved goats' horns. A pentagram, pointing downwards, shone in phosphoric light between the horns on his forehead. Two large, grey, bat-like wings were spread behind him. He held up one arm, spreading out his bare, fat hand. In the palm I saw a sign of black magic. A burning torch held down-end in his other hand emitted black, stifling smoke. He sat on a large, black cube, gripping it with the claws of his beast-like shaggy legs.

A man and woman were chained to the cube — the same Man and Woman I saw in the garden, but now they had horns and tails tipped with flame. And they were evidently dissatisfied in spirit, and were filled with protest and repulsion.

I see a metaphor here . . .

83> very kind words, Poquette. I've taken them to heart.

More Ouspensky, I think, please. I love that mad stuff.

Perhaps it is time to drop the curtain on this thread as well. The foil is gone and this subject matter is kind of weird for Le Salon, n'est pas?

It was great fun. Thanks one and all for participating.

well done !

What's all this about gene pools?

Brava, Poquette!

Robert

Darn. I didn't have the time to submit yet another list and get a tarot reading. Oh well.

Tarot readings are still available for $15.00 a pop at the kiosk outside.

Oh! Oh! I wanna play! Is it too late?

Poqi, I too have a fondness for the cards tarot. But I've never thought of using them the way you are now. Injeeeeeeeeeenyus.

Authors: ha ha! That's a good one!

Books: Lolita, Harriet the Spy, Rebecca.....

Movies: Pulp Fiction, Breakfast at Tiffany's, Lost in Translation, Heathers, Chasing Amy, Inglourious Basterds, Alien

Directors: Woody Allen, Sofia Coppola, Kevin Smith (the early years), Lumet, Tarantino, Spike Lee, Christopher Nolan

Actors: Samuel L Jackson, Edward Norton, John Cusack, Depp, Pitt (mock if you like), Audrey Hepburn, Helen Mirren (I want to BE Helen Mirren in 30 years). ScarJo, Emma Stone, The Usual Suspects: Streep, Nicholson, et al. Too many really.

I couldn’t do musicians and singers b/c there were too many. But I do believe that Tori Amos is an incarnation of the Goddess if that helps.

Songs/Pieces of Music: Little Red Corvette, Rhapsody in Blue, Anything Baroque. Just love the harpsichord. Hyperballad – Bjork. Sick – Sneaker Pimps. Too many.

Types of People: Gay Men, Chicks Who Kick Ass, Daniel Craig

Cities: New Orleans, San Francisco, Paris, New York

cg you're one of a kind.

Yeah,z, looking back at it, you're probably right (and thanks for the compliment :-). I don't think a tarot analysis will work. I'm not even sure if an archetype analysis will work, but it was fun!

Mallrats is underrated for sure. Can you believe we really have a clothing chain called "Casual Male" now? Or was that always a real spot?

Any sighting of Jay and Silent Bob is a pleasure to be savored.

Yeah, I think Casual Male has always been around, I think there's a catalog that's frequently mocked.

According to WikiP, it's been around since 1976.

Mallrats . . . Casual Male . . . hmm . . .

Hmmmm, I've never tried to be a casual male before. Just off the top the ick factor makes it seem mighty daunting. I think I'll continue on as a committed male.