Get Real Authors!

By the look of the posts here in Hobnob you would think that authors are only capable of writing self-promotion. No wonder authors get a bad rep in LT. Just who do you think will come to Hobnob to read page after page of self-promotion? Get real, authors and contribute to the group. Can't we make this interesting?

Could not agree more!

I know authors want us to read their books, but too much self-promotion can be off putting to the Readers.

What would you like us to write about? Writing process? Publishing woes? What interests you about a writer's life?

Mary

Have you ever had pie with a President?

Amen!

I'd add that authors don't need to feel restricted to this group, either; while self-promotion needs to be kept here, we'd love to have you talking about your favorite books (those that you didn't write, that is!) on other groups as well.

# 4

Anything in addition to self-promotion. Of course, self promote, but I would venture to say that an author does more to self promote by not self-promoting, if you know what I mean. haha I will start a new thread asking authors to list their top five favorite genre books. If a potential readers knows what works have influenced your writing, they just might be more inclined to give your work a try.

Although, to be fair, I wonder how many authors there are who we don't even realize are authors because they aren't self-promoting. I might not have realized that @Marissa_Doyle was an author if I hadn't actually read her books, for example.

I like it when authors do some self-promo. Otherwise, like Zoe said, I might not realize they have a book out that I might like to read. I come to this group to see what's going on, if there are any new books that I might be interested in, as well as to see what writers are talking about in general.

As I recall, this group was one of two places created specifically so authors could self-promote without getting into trouble elsewhere on LT. So of course we're going to talk about our releases and what we're working on here. This is the place to do it, and not elsewhere on the site.

If non-authors would like to talk about something else besides, they should step forward and post questions for us.

People should also remember that self-promotion isn't always about getting sales. Quite often it is also the author saying 'Wow! I did it! Look at this!' because we like to share the times when we have created something we think is extraordinary and worth showing to the rest of you, even if you are not interested in buying it. You may not read the genre I am writing in, after all.

I like to talk about the entire process of writing. I've written books on it (ha!), taught on-line classes on it and I generally still find the art of writing a fascinating subject. So my posts are often going revolve around writing in one form or another. Sure, I could post about my cats, my photography (with pictures that show up in print now and then), 3D digital art and history books. I could post about the weather in Nebraska and living in the American Midwest . . . but over all, I doubt people come to a board called Hobnob with Authors to talk about things other than the writing, in one way or another.

Am I wrong? Maybe I just haven't made that connection properly.

No, zette. You're correct. At least as far as I am concerned. I believe this is one of the groups (I thought it was the only one, so learned something new today) for self-promotion. Also, what people write about on their own threads in, say, the 75-Book Challenge Group or Green Dragon Group is their own business, and if you felt like mentioning your cat, say, in this group, that would be fine with me. But come to LT mostly to talk about books ~ reading them, reviewing them, writing them, buying them, storing them, hugging them, sleeping with them, whatever ~ and I've thought that this thread is more for discussing the process of writing, editing, publishing, what people are writing and what they've published, and for writers and readers to interact, that sort of thing. At least that is my opinion. Others may disagree.

You make a good point about making this place more interesting, Gary. In response I've set up a thread for fantasy authors here: http://www.librarything.com/topic/131147

Hooray authors! I'm sure we've had some good threads about writing and publishing and LT is the only place I feel I can always find someone to connect with. I like to hear what others are reading and I have given up expecting folk on here to want to read my books.At first I thought it was a good place for promotion but now I use it more for reviews. As I have begun to write another novel I will be using LT to stop myself feeling lonely. I thank you all for getting me reading again but that period is over and I'm back to writing. It took almost 7months to get the reprints of my first book done but now they are up in the loft I feel free to start on something new. I did catch a thread about writing more than one book at a time and wondered how that was possible. I disappear into fictionworld. Meals are late, appointments get forgotten and some nights I can't sleep. I love it!

I also find that my writing interferes with my running. A few days ago I did a nice four miles in the woods and when I got back all tired and sweaty all that I could remember was an outline of another book with my human hero searching for the souls of the aliens in the empire of the Omniscient Eternal Father.

# 14

It is probably good that I don't run. The way my mind works I might wind up in the next town, trying to figure out how I got there.

You know, the lack of a comma in the title made me think that we had non-real authors around here, making me search for these REAL authors that the OP wanted to point to...

>16 gilroy:
Yes, what we really need here are imaginary authors. Or even better, complex ones.

>16 gilroy:-
I thought it was in response to another thread Gary posted ((and the snarky response he got) when I first saw the title. ;)

( , ) There ... fixed

# 18

(Laughing) Yes, that would be a good response.

> 17 Thanks for a laugh today!

4> What would you like us to write about? Writing process? Publishing woes? What interests you about a writer's life?

Not so much interested in writers' lives or woes really, but I do follow some author blogs. Those that do hook me in are authors writing about (dropping tidbits from) ongoing/upcoming projects. Share information from their research. Even ask readers for assistance with research.

#14, 15: My runs are usually to the refrigerator. Last night I started reading Sharon Kay Penman's "Lionheart" because I'm in a 12th century zone right now. So far I'm unimpressed and I love her work. It's starting way too slow. So what did I do last night when I put the Nook Color down to absorb the chapter and then tackle the next chapter of my own writing? Went to the fridge and foraged for anything my grown sons hadn't already attacked. I think I'll resort to "Wind Up Knight" rather than eat next time. I read books one at a time for pleasure reading.

I'm as unreal as author as you can get - I'm clergy by vocation and calling, writer out of passion for most of my life, and a legal secretary out of necessity. My kids wouldn't love me if I was 'normal.' I'm sure there's a book in there somewhere.

>17 thorold: The Princess Bride springs to mind...

#22 - I for one would love to talk about my current/upcoming projects. But I'm very uncertain what I could say about them that would actually be interesting to people other than me.

#25: Ah yes, the elusive Morgenstern...

I'd be happy to get real. What would you like to know?

As for being real, I'm working on the companion to my latest novel, "Tallis' Third Tune;" it's not technically a sequel, but the same story from the male protagonist's point of view and so far I'm having a blast. I'm on sabbatical from the church so I don't have to interrupt the writing flow with sermons or parish newsletter articles - though sometimes, the secular writing finds its way into sermons and vice versa with interesting results.

How do you write a book? I'm assuming it takes a certain amount of focus to separate yourself from the real world. I think I would find that difficult. Life would interfere. Does the story come to you ready to be put down on paper? Or do you "work" through it? Does it speak to you? Or does it drive you?

I've always thought it would be fun to write a book. I've always loved books and thought someday I might like to write one...or two. I was always excited to open a gift and find out it was a book! Yay!!! That being said, I think I've found one of the basic differences between a person who loves books and loves to read, and a person who loves to write and tell stories. I spoke to a writer recently, who said there was nothing more wonderful to her than to be given a new package of paper! She couldn't wait to fill it up with words! Stories! I look at a blank sheet of paper and don't know where to start. That would likely be because I'm a reader and I'll probably never write that book.

Comments anyone?

Ah yes! That feeling when someone gives you a matching set of notebooks, and you think "Yes! I know exactly how I'm going fill these. Yes! There are just what I've been waiting for." And if you got a set of new pencils to go with them .... Just like Christmas day when I was a child. That feeling hasn't changed one bit.

#30: Never say never!

How I write depends solely on what I'm writing. Historical fiction demands more research than my flights of fancy, like what I'm working on now. It always starts with an idea that I carry around and once I sit down, I just write, no matter how bad it is until I have something established, then I go back after a few pages are written to review, edit, flesh-out. I then work through it and I try to write every day. Stories like "Scarborough", the companion to "Tallis' Third Tune," is driving itself, though it has been speaking, or rather shouting, at me since I finished "Tallis."

I'm able to zone out of reality to write - my best work comes when the house is quiet and the TV, video games and iPods are silent, though I can write through any domestic event. My life and the life around me works its way into the story.

I think about the characters all the time, the plot development, dialogue. I start thinking like my characters. I enjoy the editing process more than the initial creation, too. Finally, I had no real preparation beforehand, I just write. I open up the laptop or tap on the tablet and go. Somedays are better than others.

Me I'm not understanding why zoning out reality is a necessity.

... maybe I've never zoned in reality?

#33

I think this is less about zoning out of reality and more about connecting with your story. The manuscript takes over the forefront of your thoughts and 'reality' isn't where you are focused.

I love those times when I'm 'living' the story and not the real world around me.

#30

Not everyone is meant to be a writer. And most certainly, not everyone wants to do the hard work of being a writer, either. That doesn't mean that one day you won't be looking at a blank sheet of paper (or, as with many of us, a blank screen) and suddenly now exactly what you want to put there.

Writing is an art, though. You can't expect to write the perfect story with the first try. The good news is that you can redo that story as many times as you like.

Thanks for all the great comments everyone! I enjoy learning how it is from the author's viewpoint.

>31 MalcolmNoble: - MalcolmNoble - You sound just like the author I was speaking to! I can imagine that feeling but in a different context. Charcoal and a pad of sketching paper used to make me feel the same way. Or a new book to read!

>32 EllenLEkstrom:/33 - Re: zoning out...I used to draw. It was an actual feeling of tingling in my fingertips that drove it. I would see something that caused my fingers literally to NEED to draw and nothing else mattered until that drawing was done. That's why I wondered about focus. In art classes, being told what to draw was much more difficult and it would take a long time to get my head in the right place. Literally no internal inspiration. Being inspired randomly worked much better. Now, I find that it's difficult to get into that place and that's mostly due to my head being mired down in day-to-day life.

I love my job, surrounded by books, and I get to read a lot! I've been putting everything I have into my job. I think, although I could be wrong, that I would need to be able to do that with any book I might try to write. I have the greatest respect and admiration for people who are able to write wonderful books and still carry on with the everyday life!

>35 zette: - zette - I recognize the hard work that goes into researching and writing a good story. I've had lots of failures with writing assignments at school although one stands out because I actually got an A+ and comment from the teacher that I really had him going with my story. I might just be one of those who isn't meant to be a writer. Maybe some day when I can afford to take a couple of weeks vacation, I'll take a chance. Mean while, I'll be the other half of the equation.....the reader! :)

34,36 - Maybe I just find focus so easy to achieve that I don't think about it? If I'm involved in a project, my kids really have to work at getting my attention. ::rueful::

But it doesn't seem to me that writing focus is that different an achievement from, say being focused on programming.

I also draw a bit, and I tend to be much less focused while doing that than when I write or code. Two of my daughters are very into art, and they like working on their projects while listening to audio books, or tv programs. And I seem to recall a webcomic artist of my acquaintance saying something similar about webcasts.

Re Zoning Out: I'm able to block out the outside distractions when I'm writing and that came from years of discipline and learning when was the best time to write when the children were little. Writing for me is reality - it's a craft that I continue to work at with a passion. I find as I type, I go into that "movie theatre" in my mind and see everything and hear everything as if I'm sitting in a theatre, it's all from the character's point of view. Given my ecclesiastical and secular work, I am very steeped in reality - writing becomes a vacation from that.

In answer to your questions:
How do you write a book?
By putting words down on paper or into a computer.

Does the story come to you ready to be put down on paper?
No. That would be like watching a two-hour movie in one second. A story comes to me like a movie comes to me, line by line, shot by shot, and scene by scene. Or rather like a TV series, over the course of days, weeks, even years. I usually watch the entire thing in my mind a few times before I write it down.

Or do you "work" through it?
It's not really work. It's daydreaming. Then it's writing the daydream down. And then there's a lot of editing.

Does it speak to you?
Sure...just the other day my story was saying, "Hey, writer girl, why aren't you writing me?" And I said, "Leave me alone. You're an inanimate object, and inanimate objects can't speak." And it said, "Then how do you explain the charges for those phone calls to Japan?" And I said, "That was you?" And it didn't say anything, because inanimate objects can't talk. But it did snicker.

Or does it drive you?
Drive me? Like a chauffeur? Do other writers' books do that? Wish mine could. That would be cool.

No, my stories don't drive me, though they do sometimes pester me when I'm driving. When they do, I have to tell them, "Cut that out, or I will turn this car around right now!" Oh, wait a minute.... Sorry, I was thinking about my kids.

Now to answer the one question you didn't ask, the difference between the person who has written a book and the person who always wanted to write a book is confidence.

Do you know why you look at a blank sheet of paper and don't know where to start? It's because you think writers start with a great first line. We don't. We start with what is commonly referred to as the sh***y first draft. A real writer knows that a sh***y first draft can be edited into something pretty good, but you can never edit a blank page. So don't be so intimidated. Writing is fun. You just have to dare to have fun.

Do you remember when you were a kid and you created something? Maybe it was a story, but it could have been a drawing, or a sculpture, or even a dance. No one told you you couldn't do it. You were a little kid, and you could do anything. That little kid wouldn't be staring at that blank sheet of paper. That kid would just create. And that's how writers do it.

I guess for me, focus is difficult. I used to be accused of daydreaming because I didn't focus on my schoolwork. I'm easily distracted and I imagined writing would require an ability to be focused on the task at hand, namely putting the story down on paper...or these days, on the computer. I think for some, like LShelby says, focus comes so easily it isn't something to be thought about. I'm not always able to block out outside distractions and therefore lack the confidence to think I could actually maintain the thread of a story over many interruptions. That's one thing I've wondered about. How do you handle the balance between the demands of day to day life, and finding the time to write. Do you set aside certain times when you write? Do you write every day regardless of what else is going on? Do you write whenever the mood takes you, like jotting down ideas in a notebook? I guess what I'm wondering about is the writing process as referred to by #4, 7, 22, 26 above, and also what motivates you to write.

My Dad used to say that the only way to make money from books was to write them! I think that comment is what prods me occasionally to think I might like to write a book. After all, I do know what I like to read! I'm often accused of talking to much and going into to much detail, but as I always say....there is no reader's digest condensed version from my perspective! For me, it just has to be told the way I experienced it. I'm very detail-oriented. That may or may not translate well into good writing! LOL

>39 sheviarnold: sheviarnold - I love your sense of humour! And yes, I do remember creating as a kid. I did a lot of that through many mediums. :) Your kids have an interesting and fun Mom!

For all authors who have been responding, I'm sad to say we don't have any of your books in our store. It's a used bookstore, so we get what we get. I'll be keeping an eye out for them, tho.

Do you set aside certain times when you write?
Hmm...sometimes. Sort of. It's more like a decide to sit down to write and I stop when I feel like stopping or I get hungry or I realize I left a pot on the stove and I might have accidentally set the house on fire. I know a lot of writers stick to schedules, but that doesn't work for me. Starting is usually the problem, because I get caught up in, you know, life, the demands of being a spouse and parent. But once I decide to write and I tell my family that's what I'm doing, it's very hard to get me to stop. I love it so much.

Do you write every day regardless of what else is going on?
No, not unless it's NaNoWriMo and I haven't reached 50,000 words yet.

Do you write whenever the mood takes you, like jotting down ideas in a notebook?
Absolutely! I have to do that, because otherwise I tend to forget stuff. Sometimes I'll come up with an idea as I'm driving, and I'll repeat it to myself over and over so I don't forget it before I have a chance to write it down.

What motivates you to write?
Like you, I have been a life-long daydreamer. A few years ago I found a few of my old report cards from school. Every year, another teacher wrote something like, "Shevi is very bright and could be a great student, if only she'd stop daydreaming."

But those daydreams were my stories, my entertainment. Classes were boring, but I could always escape in my mind to other worlds and live other lives.

I used to be a journalist, and I've only ever made a living by writing and illustrating. When I could no longer work for newspapers or magazines, I started thinking about all those stories that had forever been playing in my head. I loved them so much. Wasn't it selfish to keep them to myself? Wouldn't it be a loss if I died and my stories and characters died with me?

And that's what motivates me to write. Those stories gave me comfort and joy when I needed it, and I know they can do the same for other people. So I write for the people who need my stories. I write for my characters, so they won't die with me. And I write because I am and have always been a writer, and that's what writers do.

I have discovered that a regular schedule makes me feel productive, but even without it stories will get written.

#42

I thought about the 'productive side' and realized that isn't why I write every day. It's definately a benefit if you have the imagination to sustain it, though. However, I realized I write every day because I enjoy it.

>41 sheviarnold: - sheviarnold - Thanks! Your comments are very encouraging! My report cards are the same as yours. Like you, I found school to be mostly boring. There were whole other worlds outside that window! I was even more entertained by the clouds drifting by than I was by some of my teachers. I've always thought it would be really cool if we could be self-directed learners! But that's another subject. I can definitely understand your motivation now. I agree...it would be a loss if writers didn't share their stories and then were would us readers be?

>42 LShelby: - LShelby - I think that's one of the things that keeps me from trying. I chafe at being constricted to a schedule, even though I know that others need that. I can understand how it would help with productivity, though. It's nice to know that it can work both ways. Knowing myself, I don't know which way would work for me. I know at this point I don't have the time for anything scheduled. I've felt inspired enough with chatting here that I might try something unscheduled. I know I've felt the lack of anything creative in my life for awhile now, and think that is something I need to address. Who knows what might come of it?!

Thanks for all your comments!

#44

The real, honest truth is that you have to want to write. Most authors I know do not have a schedule. Most don't write every day. What keeps them going is want to tell the story they have in their head.

If you get that feeling, then writing is just a matter of time and patience -- and a willingness to learn to write better with each try.

>43 zette: - zette - Good to know! After all, what is the point of doing anything if we don't enjoy it! For about 3 years now, whenever I've been talking to young people who don't know what to do with their lives and are feeling a little lost, I say "Find your passion....that which you are most passionate about...and follow it!" It took me a long time to "find my passion", even though it was staring me in the face most of my life! I am happiest when I'm working with books. I've always loved them, the look of them, the look of a bookcase full of them, libraries full of books! Reading them admiring the artwork of the covers and sometimes there is artwork inside, too. Learning from them...when it's a topic that has caught my interest. I love the feel of them. What is more perfect than a book I haven't read yet? It makes a huge difference when you go to work each day knowing you'll be surrounded by the thing that lights a fire for you.

#45 - Zette: So very, very, true. I write because I want to, I have to, even if no one will ever read it but me.

I write because I have something to say and I want as many people as possible to hear it so, unlike Ellen I definitely want others to read what I have written. OK, so it isn't a political essay or a philosophical treatise but it is a bunch of ideas formed into a story with characters I hope the reader can identify with and a situation I hope they will get some enjoyment out of experiencing.
When I am writing the people I am writing about are more real than my ordinary life and I write as soon as an idea comes to me, almost wherever I am, so I have to have a notebook handy at all times.
I think perhaps the authors who write autobiographies are different from those of us who write fiction and if you are a 'detail' person perhaps non fiction would be more your thing, neverwithoutabook.
As a 'words' person I don't find drawing very easy and I cannot cope with mathematics. Vive la difference!

Hi oldstick! It's interesting hearing so many different viewpoints! You could be right that non-ficiton might be the way to go for me. I'm still giving the idea a lot of thought. When my Dad passed away, I had an idea to write his life story. Maybe I should start there.

I don't always find drawing easy. It has to come from the muse I guess. I do visualize, though. And when it's going well, I do enjoy it. Math I hate. Words I love! When I was in high school, I started many of my days with a quick stop at the dictionary. I sit down with it, open it at random, close my eyes and put my finger on the page. Whatever that word was, was my word for the day. I'd read the definition, and then try and use that word that day. Even if all I did was tell someone else about the word. Just a fun little game I played. :)

What an interesting thread. Started out as a sort of reader hates writers who self-promote (I should tell you about my dog, garden, books I liked etc. before I tell you anything about my book) and got into something way more interesting. Is a link allowed here? I can't remember. I'm always breaking rules I can't remember. Here's my summary about the writing process and necessity thing:

http://www.randyattwood.blogspot.com/2011/08/reflections-from-aging-writer.html

#50 "Started out as a sort of reader hates writers who self-promote"

Actually, Gary Babb is an author.

#48: I have a few things I'd not share, but most of my writing is for public consumption. One book in particular, I thought I'd never show anyone, and it's out there and doing well for its genre. My ramblings and rants, however, I keep to myself...

>50 randyattwood: - randyattwood - Thanks for the link! It was interesting and I'll follow! :)

This interviews sets out my writing method better than any other interview/press feature. Hope it's useful http://jeanzbookreadnreview.blogspot.com/2012/01/guest-post-malcolm-noble.

#52
Ellen, your rants and ramblings might be interesting. Use a different name that no one knows. haha

When I lived in California, in the armpit of politics, I would write rants concerning what ever burning topic was hot for the day. After a couple of years I discovered that I had hundreds of them. I organized them and sent it to my publisher. He jumped on it and designed cover art depicting the a statue of "The Thinker" perched on a commode and named it "Bathroom Politics". So, you never know. haha

#55
Gary, perhaps to a fellow theologian or a parent of a teenagers, yes, my rants and ramblings might just be of interest. I do most of muckracking on Facebook and Twitter.

>54 MalcolmNoble: - Malcolm Noble - The link appears to be broken, but it did get me to the blog and from there I managed to find your interview. Very interesting! I'm enjoying the many different ways that authors approach their writing.

>56 EllenLEkstrom: - EllenEkstrom - Sometimes rants and ramblings are very interesting and you never know where they'll take you! :) I rant rarely, but I ramble quite a lot! ;)

#57: Ah, but when hermaneutics get jumbled with character development...

# 57

Well, I had to look that word up. That's a 25 cent word. haha (Hermeneutics) having to do with interpretations of the Bible.

Gary: yep, and it's usually used with exegesis. Ah, the things we learn and stick with us. I wrote a chapter yesterday and it had nothing to do with that 25 cent word or any with it. : )

Never Without ... I see we both run bookshops. Is there an LT Group for that. I could do with some counselling!

>61 MalcolmNoble: - Maybe we could start one! I'm coming to the conclusion that almost anyone who loves books could do with some counselling myself! Working in a bookstore just compounds the problem! LOL Don't ya just love it! ;)

Nothing like the smell of a bookshop. Up there with the smell of a bakery. Even though I've segued to digital to give my family room, save my back, and more importantly, trees, the smell of a book when you open it - nostalgic, wonderful. There's a new book coming out February 7th about a bookshop - The Thorn and the Blossom. It looks interesting - two stories in one. There's a medieval romance as part of the plot. Okay, I'm rambling, time to call it a day. Day.

@ Gary
re: hermeneutics

I once had to write a definition of hermeneutics for a literary dictionary I contracted to do a few years ago -- along with sentences! I think I had to look it up 25 times and it still didn't make sense. Give me onomatopoeia any day!

Mary: it's one of those words that make it into parish interns' first sermon from the pulpit - that and the word eschatelogical. I'm with you on onomatopoeia.

OK smarties! I had to look that one up, also. You mean something like KAPOW? hehe

Exactly!

There is also a more "secular" hermeneutics if you read Gadamer. I remember pulling apart some of its assumptions in a grad school class on deconstruction. The halcyon days when "high theory" was not such a dirty word in academia.

Seems to be another rash of drive-by-authors here again. I know I sometimes post slightly less than perfectly friendly comments to those posts, but truly, if you can only be bothered listing a handful of books in your inventory, what on earth makes you think I'll be willing to give up my time to review your novel? So it's free. Good for you. My time b***** well isn't!

Ok, got that off my chest. Ahem. Sorry.

I think we need to have some sort of sticky post, or page on the Wiki that we can just refer drive-bys to, not so much to stop them spamming, but so that the ones with good intentions don't get jumped on.

I've got two questions (especially looking to those who have used Hobnob for promotions):

1. What do you wish you'd been told about the best way of approaching this community when you wanted to promote your work;

2. What form of words would have been definite enough to make you pay attention, rather than breezily assuming that the guidleines were for other people, and who was going to mind, really?

#69

Do you realize that this group is designed -- and pointed to specifically -- for advertising?

Of course the drive by author is going to post adverts here. They were told to do so.

While your questions are valid, they will be ignored because these people are just looking to get their book out to the masses. If they are posting here, they are following the base guidelines that are required.

Unless you want every revelant group with relation to that author's book to get a thread to advertise it...

This just proves that it is better to find your interested reader first and then ask if they would like to review your book.
To answer your question #69. I think just finding folk who like the same books as you is a start, then seeking out ones that don't live too far away, then chatting to them on their profile and telling them what kind of books you write. If they ask for a copy then you could introduce the request for a review.
Is that just too civilised for you?

#69

This is the place where we're supposed to post such things. And there was never a rule about how many books they own or list before they can post. The best answer in these cases is to ignore the posts if they bother you, but it's hardly fair to complain about them when people are told this is what they're supposed to do in this particular group, and not to do it elsewhere.

Oh wow, I go away to do some writing and deal with looming unemployment and I miss interesting conversations.

As for book numbers, I thought you had to have at least 50 to be listed as a 'Library Thing Author.'

I must admit, I am getting 'gun-shy' about mentioning my work anywhere online for fear of reader backlash. If it weren't for authors, what would people read?

I'm climbing out of my pulpit now, and I didn't use any big words this time! (I'm on sabbatical.) : )

73>

There used to be a minimum number of books required to be listed as an LT Author, but that limit was eliminated quite a while ago. About when I stopped looking at the lists of "LT Authors", not coincidentally.

And despite what some people may tell you, nobody here is hostile toward authors; some are hostile toward aggressive author self-promotion outside of this group, or think that authors who do nothing but self-promote aren't doing themselves any favors. I'm hardly short of books to read, after all; I don't need to go delving into the slushpile to find more. I'm here because I have discovered one good self-published author through LT, and maybe I'll find another because of their interesting posts. But I'm not desperately seeking anything with words in a row to read -- or to indiscriminately give a gushing review to anyone who asks -- the way many of the authors posting here seem to think.

#74 (Lorax): Thank you. I've discovered some wonderful books, new and old, and rediscovered some, by joining Library Thing and joining in the discussions. I also enjoy reading about my colleagues adventures in reading and writing. Just this morning on the train, a woman sitting across from me was reading something that really made her laugh and while others were annoyed (geez, they were plugged into their iPhones, et al.) I thought how great it was that someone else found so much joy in reading. She was reading Bossypants by Tina Fey. Now I'm going to check it out.

I do my promotion and marketing at my blog and on my Facebook page and leave it there unless someone asks me about it.

Ok, I appear to be in a minority of one ...

I'll try to rephrase. My problem isn't with authors promoting their books here. My problem is with people who sign up for no other purpose other than to promote their books. The ones whose entire library consists of their own titles, and who take no part in discussions that are not directly related to promoting their own books.

What I'm hoping to find out is what could usefully be put somewhere prominent so that those people can be gently redirected in their attempts so that they don't end up annoying either potential readers or general members of the community. I do understand the need for promotion, but I also think that we can make it a little less hit-and-miss for new people coming in to the group. I'll repeat the OP: who will come here to Hobnob when so many posts seem to be just self-promotion? (And often not even interesting or informative self-promotion!)

#76 I think that we should have a handful of check out my book threads that are linked to in the group description, with instructions to the new poster to add their book description and information to the relevant thread, just like the 75 Book Challenge has a "Introduce Yourself" thread and a "Quotes" thread, and so on. I think collecting all those types posts and putting them in one specific place would work better than starting a new thread for each individual book, and if there were links right there at the top of the page, I think even the drive-by posters might do it.

But last time I mentioned this possibility it was not enthusiastically endorsed by the rest of the group. ::shrug::

@77 Good idea!

MGP

@76 Well, I agree an author should make every attempt to be one with the community. I have enjoyed my time on LT, and I like it quite a bit better than GoodReads. We have had some interesting topics rise up in HobNob. I do think the suggestions LSheby made might help redistribute things to everyone's satisfaction.

MGP

People do sometimes join because they think a group of readers would like to know about their books and it does take a little gentle prodding for them to be instructed to put other books that they are reading on their profile and stop giving all their own books five stars. I think they must be the folk #76 is talking about. I'm not sure many of them stay or maybe, like me, they find the groups so interesting that promoting their own work takes a back seat. ( odd metaphor?) This is SO much better than goodreads.

@80 I just get entirely lost on GoodReads in terms of navigating the site. LT is far superior. :)

MGP

Wow! I just re-read the entire thread, and it was very interesting, something like I think Hobnob SHOULD be like and was meant to be.

#76 You are not a minority of one. I totally agree with you. In fact, that is what I was talking about when I kicked this thread off. I like your term "Drive by Authors". I must admit that I was once a "Drive by Author" when I came to LT, and I was quickly put in my place by the LT Police. haha Now I never self-promote, and I have since come to enjoy the discussions, opinions, debates, and even some of the arguments. haha

@82: If someone writes a lot of interesting messages in the forums, I check out their profiles. And if they're an author, I check out their books too :) So having a good profile text with clear links to your books is always a good idea, I think.

I'm strangely in agreement with all of the posts that have been added to this string. And I do like the term "Drive by Authors." I wonder if anyone has been approached while on public transit by Drive Byes? It happened once to me - I was reading and the guy asked if it was a Nook or Kindle and then launched into a sales pitch! He wanted me to go the shop and download his book.

@83 Good advice too :)

MGP

>83 mene: Even more than a good profile, how about filling in the description of the book the author is pushing? I can't tell how many times someone has done the drive-by thing here, said something like "Exciting new fantasy mystery" (making this up), I've clicked on the name of the book to read more about it, and the book's page is basically blank. Yep, I'm going to click through to Amazon or Powell's to buy the book for $19.95 when the author can't be bothered to write a simple 2-3 sentence summary! Grrr....

Phew -- got that off my chest!

I am a reader who loves authors (or we wouldn't have books, she said). I applaud #83. Of course you talk to each other but we're delighted to be in touch too. For the record: I have reviewed books by three members.

I think the authors should spend more time in this community, too. However, I also know that many new authors are nervous, uncertain -- and they post the one thing they do know about which happens to be their book. Unfortunately, they've also been told by 'experts' that they should go everywhere and post links to their work. So some just don't know any better.

A gentle nudge to say join the community or asking for more information about their work would be helpful, I think. Then, at least, you would be able to tell the true 'drive-bys' from those who just haven't gotten the knack of this whole social media interaction yet.

Authors need to be part of the reading community. How else can we share what we ourselves enjoy in reading, and find an audience for our work? This particular group introduced me to an LT author that I've found is a wonderful storyteller and whose work kept me up past my bedtime because I couldn't put the book down.

I'm discovering that LT is a welcoming, diverse literary community. And if new authors really want the bee-geezus scared out of them, try lurking at the Amazon boards. You're safer here and there are groups at LT where you can safely market your work by the guidelines and find friends with common interests and passions. Once in while, you may even find a beta reader by accident. Got a private message from someone who offered to review one of my books. Now who's gonna turn that down?

Back to the writing - I've been avoiding Chapter 4 all day...

Testing, testing. Is this the sort of thing readers want to see in self-promotions?

In many ways, One More Victim is the oddest work I've done. I'm not sure it's wise to write about the genesis of a story.

Joseph Conrad did so in a series of fascinating introductions for a collection of his stories. And I think of One More Victim as my own sort of Heart of Darkness, not that I would ever try to compare myself to that great master. I remember circa 1975 looking out the back door of our house in Hutchinson, KS, in February, and seeing a group of crows pecking holes in our black garbage sacks. It started a poem in my head. The poem stated the essence of a story that took me almost 30 years to finish as I found the tale that expressed the poem and then finally wrote the last stanza of the poem that ends One More Victim.

The Holocaust is critical to the plot, not so much the atmosphere. Deep love -- not betrayed, but deep love not fully realized -- is an emotion most people don't want to explore. Writers do.

89

Well, I don't know -- but it seems to me that authors found readers without being part of any community before the Internet. (grin)

But yes, they should take more part. Many of them just dont' realize it, and they're not likely to find the answer buried here in this thread. So perhaps encouraging them to join in, even when they've started out badly, is the best answer.

91
Yes, zette. In the past readers could rely on two filters. The filter of the publisher accepting a book and publishing it and then a reviewer. Now...those filters are pretty much gone. The reader is liberated, but they have to sort through a lot of material. I guess my hope is that a reader who encounters one of my works will see a style, an approach, a non-genre exploitation that will lead that reader to check out another work. But, then, I've always been an idealist.

True on the publishers as a filter and, on a more limited field, the reviewers. From years of working in a pre-Internet days book store, I can tell you that most readers never looked at reviews. In fact, reviewers seem to have acquired a lot more power these days.

But still, people found things to read. Granted, it was a lot easier to merely walk into a store and search for something in the section the person normally enjoyed. We have more freedom now, but it's not always a better world for the reader or the writer. Too many factors which can keep the two apart.

The filter of the publisher accepting a book and publishing it and then a reviewer. Now...those filters are pretty much gone.

Speak for yourself.

Those filters are no longer required -- readers can choose to "turn them off" and dive into the slushpile. But not all of us have so chosen -- my reading time is precious enough that I'm certainly not going to read random crap that nobody but the author thinks is worth publishing. If it's self-published it had better have damn good reviews, and the author had damn well better have demonstrated that they're competent, before I'll take a look. I'm quite confident that even if existing publishers go away entirely something will evolve to fill their role -- there will be some set of trusted reviewers that put a stamp of approval on books so that ordinary readers don't need to try ten books to find one that can write a coherent paragraph, and a hundred to find one that can write a coherent plot. These may not be called "publishers" but they'll fill the same role as far as readers are concerned.

Lorax, you optimist!
Although it does beg the question – how then do you wade through all the puffery and rubbish to find the good reviews? (Good in the sense of well-written and of some value to you, the reader. Not necessarily – or even often – positive reviews.)

The rise of self-publishing puts even more of the filter on the shoulders of the reader, that's basically what's going on here. More books being published, lower quality books being published, drop in professional editing. It's forcing the reader to look even closer than before at the books being published to find one worth reading.

It's not all bad, of course. Self-publishing means that more niche books are being published, the kinds of books that big publishers aren't interested in regardless of quality, and writers with good books that just can't find someone to take up their books have a way of getting directly to the readers.

I think what it comes down to is that sites like LibraryThing and GoodReads become more important than ever, because these sites allow readers to talk about and recommend the self-published books that ARE good.

95>

Well, there's still a bit of trial and error, of course, to find reviewers whose tastes align with yours. Still, it's pretty easy to exclude those who just give a glowing review to everything. (Which is why I think the reviewers, like some I've seen, who have a policy of never posting an negative review do themselves and the authors they review a disservice -- are they just not posting if they don't like the book, or do they just say something nice no matter how awful the book?) That leaves you with, at worst, the one-in-ten problem of finding the writers who can write a plot from those who can write a paragraph.

I mean, it's not like all published books are good, either, but they at least pass the threshold of "basic familiarity with the English language". Even if the reviewers just establish that cut it's a big step up from the raw slush that is the universe of self-published books.

I've read a few traditionally published books from the big seven that were poorly written and edited. Welcome to the world of Spellcheck and nothing else. And there are the highly-touted "Must-Reads" by the famous few that I've thought were crap. It's a matter of taste. I've been lucky in the books I've chosen to read; lately they have been excellent, except for the last one. I want people to be honest when they read my work, and I have to do the same. Case in point: At "Night Owl Reviews" the reviewer of "Tallis" said she didn't get the shift in focus and it made it difficult to read and it took her a long time, but she recommended the book and liked the characters, thought it was a good story. Another reviewer picked up on the focus-thing and had no problem with it. Another wondered what drug I was on when I wrote it.

I have always found the term "slush pile" to be a really loaded and negative phrase.

MGP

"Slush Pile" IS a negative phrase! Still, we all know it for what it is...usually a pile of crap. Of course, many good books get caught up in the volume and never make it higher. Lorax has a point. She just says it bluntly.

99>

It is the standard phrase used in the publishing industry for the pile of unsolicited manuscripts that must be sorted through to find the publishable material, as determined by that publisher; some good stuff is sadly lost, but far more bad stuff is weeded out. Self-published books have no such preliminary filtering system, so the reader is in effect sifting through the slushpile on their own. Since I am limited by reading time rather than availability of good stuff I'm more than happy to let someone else do the first pass of filtering for me. Others may choose otherwise, or may be interested in a particular type of books with a sufficiently small audience that no publisher finds it worthwhile to publish them regardless of quality, and may make a different decision about the value of having someone else make the first cut. There's no shame either way.

I recall an SF convention where a published author talked with great glee about a book in his publishing house's slush pile. It seems the story revolved around Jupiter getting knocked out of orbit and heading toward Earth like some gigantic bowling ball. It was more than 30 plus years ago that I heard this tale and I still remember the details. This story may not have made it as a straight up SF story, but as an SF comedy it would have been inspired. It was simply in the wrong pile. And I think that is what happens when books get to publishers. Many good stories are just in the wrong pile and never migrate to the right pile. I'd like to find another term for the unsolicited pile that does not denigrate. Even the Eye of Argon eventually found its audience.

For myself, if I am buying books, I tend to buy Indies because I am always surprised by new voices. I usually let serendipity show the way.

MGP

> 102

The book sounds a bit like somebody trying to do a fictional riff on Worlds in Collision by Immanuel Velikovsky, and 30+ years ago would be about right for Velikovsky to seem like a hot topic. Velikovsky wrote about Venus being ejected from Jupiter, and the whole "cosmic billiards" thing was one of his central ideas.

Given that, I'd bet the price of lunch that the author intended the book not as a comedy but as a serious "What if it happened again?" speculation . . . hence the manuscript's permanent residence in the slush pile, along with (straight) stories about perpetual motion machines.

@103 yes, the author was probably serious. But think of all the missed potential.

MGP

>104 NineTiger: But even having the most fascinating idea in the universe behind it doesn't help if the book itself is poorly written. The idea is only a small part of the equation.