Because you can't fix stupid !!!

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/2-men-detained-after-showing-up-with-rifles...

Why ? Cause my gun is bigger than your gun ? Cause I am the meanest dude in town ? Cause I am going to show you how "I" handle things ? Cause the gun's go well with this outfit ?

Geez.....the stupid are in control here when it comes to guns....and then there are those who should know better, insisting that "stupid" can be fixed. I don't think so !!

I suppose....a couple of AR-15's will deal with anyone who may have a desire to mess with the wrong cucumber or interfere with a person's peaches.

Let's all of us play war......we can all walk around packing......wonder how long before someone decides to tote around a rocket launcher ? We can bet who will be the first and who will have the biggest and/or the most. Just like the Middle East ! What fun ! The gun as status symbol.....cause that is where we are headed.....all those in the know have jump on this. Kind of makes one think of who is really the stupid one....the guy with the Uzi or the guy who doesn't want to own a gun. I fear the Uzi's will win the day.

NOPE....stupid can not be fixed !

Jeannie, there is a term which we can borrow from theology: INVINCIBLE IGNORANCE. It means something a little different from what you're discussing, but certainly fits. As Ebenezer Scrooge put it, in a slightly different context, "I shall retire to Bedlam". Cheers, -- Goddard

>3 HarryMacDonald: "I shall retire to Bedlam".

This may be appropriate reading material with which to retire :

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/10/rush-limbaugh-has-no-business-t...

Was ever anyone so full of themselves ?

I should think this fits well under the title of this thread.

Will be interesting to see how many of these things sell.

Invincible ignorance--I like that one. Theology you say...

Someone may not be liable for divine punishment IF he/she cannot comprehend the correct theological point, e. g., the "immaculate conception" of Mary.

One is therefore "forgiven" that lack because of his "invincible ignorance" -- Shaw makes a good joke of this in his "Saint Joan" re Harry Andrews as the belligerent monk lusting for Joan's execution...

I am safe!

But I??????????? Hmmmm...

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/15/20506324-in-their-own-words-opinio...

"There are death panels in there, and they’re going to decide whether people get treatment or not. "

Either the people who are objecting have had little or no involvement in our current health care system or they are simply not paying attention to what is going on. We have death panels now !
For every Dick Cheney who gets a new heart there are 20 poor people who die because they can not afford a new heart.......YOUNG people. What is that called ? Paying your way perhaps ? I would argue that the tax payer paid for Cheney's heart....given a choice I would have given that heart to someone younger. (someone who actually had a heart to replace)
Everything mentioned as a downside to the Affordable Care Act has already been happening ...... since the conception of HMOs......some get a lot....some not so much....some not at all. Some pay a lot....some not so much....some not at all.

Because if some heartless corporation decides who lives and dies, well, that's just business. But if the gov't does then that's Evil!!!

But in any case, under Obamacare that doesn't change. It's still you're health insurance company that will be make those decisions.

There's stil only 'x' resources for 'x+y' number of people who need those resources.

No matter who pays, how much they pay, or who's administering the allocation of resources.

However, business allocation of those medical resources is based on what is good for the business, by people who are legally not accountable to the public they are making decisions for.

Government allocation means that (alledgedly) the people making the decisions are accountable to the public.

Politics is going to be a part of that decision making either way, though.

So, yeah; either way, 'death panels'.

Giving Dick Cheney a heart did no good...

They put it in the wrong place.

Apparently...

http://news.yahoo.com/contract-worker-behind-navy-yard-shooting-rampage-11184753...

Chuck Todd questioning the mayor of D.C. :

"Is your city secure enough ?"

Ha ha ha ha ha !

About as secure as an American embassy in Benghazi I would say.

What is the difference I would ask ? People died...BOTH situations. Must be Hillary's fault...or Obama's ? Who can we blame for this debacle ?

We need more security DAMN IT !!!!

You will be pleased to hear that the district will be hiring 4000 more police officers to deal with the crazies who are exercising their second amendment rights. This makes everyone feel all warm and fuzzy I'm sure. More cops more guns more crazies more guns.

Who said what about bedlam ? Indeed !

How long before we are known as the country that ran out of candles before it addressed a surplus of guns ?

Guy had a record....violence and guns....just as Zimmerman...unfortunately he also has "rights" which allow him to continue to exercise poor behavior until someone else loses everything. Sorry...this guy, in my book, lost a right to carry a weapon...so did Zimmerman...too many incidents...too much heartbreak. Other's have rights as well and these people trample all over them with impunity and are protected by our "freedoms" and "rights" system. BS !
Like children...if we can not play with our toys with out hurting each other, than we need to have the toys taken away. Since we are refusing to enforce any rules as to who can or can not "play" with guns, it would seem that soon, the only answer will be to take the damn toy away !

16 'Like children...if we can not play with our toys with out hurting each other, than we need to have the toys taken away. Since we are refusing to enforce any rules as to who can or can not "play" with guns, it would seem that soon, the only answer will be to take the damn toy away!'

This seems an eminently sensible notion to me at the moment.

What about this line from the Washington Post?

“We don’t know what the motive is,” said D.C. Mayor Vincent C. Gray (D). The mayor said there was no reason to suspect terrorism.

Good to know what a man who takes a shotgun and kills 12 other people is not a terrorist! I guess that means he has the right last name?

>18 Arctic-Stranger: I don't get it.

If his last name was Abdullah, it would have been an act of terrorism. But no, fortunately for us, it was a home grown shooter, so this is just multiple murders.

Well, I have a certain lack of trust in government agencies, but I figure coppers and such have their ways of determining whether or not such killing sprees are or are not what is commonly understood to be an act of terror. An Abdullah no doubt is also capable of a school shooting spree that would not be called an act of terror after the initial suspicion brought on by the name.
If what you are saying is simply that killing people is an act of terror, of course you are right, though in order to discuss various matters more effectively we use accepted terms (and try to add to the list--for instance, state terrorism is no longer an out-caste term).
Anyway, I think when such a sick and senseless act occurs there is a tendency to make it an act with some sense, and therefore if it could be called an act of terror in the commonly understand meaning of the word that would be the official version.

I was being sarcastic. If killing 12 people is not an act of terror, then what is? Defining terrorism by the nationality of the shooter seems to diminish the term. DC was on shut down.

I guess the person has to MEAN to terrorize people?

I am sure there are technical terms for what is terrorism and what is not, but you of all people should be quibbling with what a word means.

We're talking past each other. I get the sarcasm. I quibbled to make a point I don't even care about.

This is an example of responding to a post out of strange momentum. I'm not arguing with you here.

Come to think of it, though, is it surprising that in such a case as this, yet another of these, that a babbling ensues?

I serial killings just brings it out in people.

it is not like people seem to be able to talk sense when these things happen. More guns! That would protect us!

Yeah.

If Trayvon Martin had a gun, he might be alive today. But in jail for the rest of his life.

Life's Irony's Abound.

#4--I can't wait to see School Library Journal and Kirkus' review of Rush's book. I can guarantee it will not be found in my school's library.

26
The book will be popular amongst those who home school. When working for a book store I ordered some very odd books for people who were home schooling children.
Never get tired of telling the story of one woman who shopped at the used book store for her kid's books. She didn't want to pay full price for books and she did not want the kids to use the library cause she could not tear out the pages she did not want the kids to read. Still gob smacked by that customer....not sure I will ever get over it.

I suspect Limbaugh saw how much Bill O'Reilly was making out of his "history" books. His advertising revenues are down. All those ex-wives are expensive, as is defending family values.

#28

Not to mention his 'prescription' medications.

Ahh, to have the problems of the wealthy...

http://nbharbinger.wordpress.com/2013/09/17/frack-waste-spills-into-colorado-flo...

Humans....the only animal who poisons themselves. And they say that we can think and reason...might be better off if we didn't !

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2013/09/20/colorado-state-senate-president...

Limbaugh is a cartoon character; he is NOT a "human being"...

Not sure if that makes me feel any better since the Right is considering having a cartoon figure as a moderator for their primary debates. And we really have to run against such nonsense ???

Yes; the Ted Cruz GOP LOVES "non sense"!...

>34 Michael_Welch:
He is a man who is full of himself. 21 hours of listening to himself speak ? I get sick of myself in way less time than that ! The mail counterpart to Ms Palin....always flapping so as not to think to hard about what they may be flapping about or how it may sound to others.

As Jon Stewart put it -- it was more than a little ironic that he chose to oppose the ACA with a story about a cranky monster who wasn't willing to try something new, but liked it when he finally did.

I don't get it. A filibuster is something you do to prevent a vote. But he did not block a vote. He voted the same way as all the other republicans. Yet all the other republicans said that he was wrong. Is there a republican out there than can explain it to me.

>37 SimonW11:
The Republicans are like a bunch of wind up toys......all cranked up and spinning in circles. Not sure if any of them know what they are doing much less why they are doing it.

Guess one would have to go to the source....Koch Brothers or some such....they MAY have an answer for you, though I suspect that since they are all in it for themselves, they are probably just as tightly wound.

http://news.yahoo.com/palin-new-jersey-wwii-memorial-175935879.html

Was in a different room...not even near the television...heard the voice. Said silent prayer for thanks for the fact that she is not VP and we don't have to hear that voice very often.....then wondered aloud as to what the hell she was yammering on about now. Same old same old. Those old Vets are a perfect audience for Ms Palin.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-hero-project/articles/2013/10/14/the-army-s-5-b...

Make sure that those lazy bums get off the food stamps.....cut the Head Start Program.....tell those old people that they should have saved more money...to hell with SS......We spend too much money in this country. Rein in that unnecessary spending.....nobody is entitled to anything......especially when the military is in need of a new camo design !

"Looney Tunes"? "Th-th-th-that's ALL folks!"...

>42 Michael_Welch:
What is it in the psyche of the Republican American that allows them to overlook the billions of dollars spent on military uniforms while focusing on food stamp programs ? My mind can not go there....I need some help to understand this. If we need to "make ends meet" then everyone needs to "make do", including the military, who seems to think that it is justifiable to spend billions making changes to the chamo design in the uniform.

Republicans are, as a party, off their meds. A dose of a good lost election may be the "doctor's order"?

Vote next year and vote the STRAIGHT Democratic ticket -- it's your "best revenge"...

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/lawbook.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Wisconsin

New law in state of Wisconsin. Deer hunters may now use rifles to hunt deer. We are sitting right next to Richfield Sportsman's Club hunting ground. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy about walking my dogs.

Seriously screwed up !

Umm
rifles are what deer hunters use just about everywhere. could you clarify?

Because you can't fix stupid...........

RUN BAMBI RUN!...

They burned his forest. They killed his mother. Now, he's back... FOR REVENGE!

Bambo! Coming to a theatre near you.

Better watch out! Better not cry!...

Shotguns.....not high powered rifles

Gun rights voters are one voting bloc the GOP has not completely turned off--like hispanics, blacks and gays. To me it's incredible that a major political party would drive away voting blocs en masse but…anyway a lot of it is about certain districts which keep sending the same guys/gals back to DC because they do have the pulse of their particular district even if it is out of touch with the majority of overall national voters. The republicans would have a fighting chance nationally if they would moderate their words and their actions. Instead they're getting more and more extreme. By the way Dick Cheney approves the extremes. His daughter Liz is running against the much too nice 6th most conservative Senator in the US Senate Michael Enzi. I wonder where it's going to end for them?

The interesting thing about Cheney is that his background is actually more "liberal" as per his service as Jerry Ford's chief of staff and as a better sec'y of defense (than W had) to W's "pa" eh.

What is doubly interesting to me about the tea dominated Republican party is that it doesn't seek MORE voters per se, rather its objective is actually to NARROW (shall we use the word "purge"?) the party; it wishes to EXPEL rather than add, e. g., note that in Florida recently former GOPper gov Charlie Crist has changed his registration to Democratic as there is no "place" for him in the current GOP.

Let the RINOS ("Republicans In Name Only," i. e., moderates) depart! Instead of the "big tent" GOP of Ronald Reagan (recall RR's "eleventh commandment": "Thou shalt speak no ill of any other Republican") wherein Bob Dole and Mark Hatfield could both flourish, the tea(s)ers want say John McCain defeated in '16, NOT, may I say as an Arizonan, likely to occur even though Big Little Mac will be 80 by then.

Liz Cheney is running in the "noveau" party of tea eh; consequently the absolute necessity to seem an unbridgeable gulf re "the other side." You keep doing that and you may find a more "conservative" Democrat winning the seat as Demos want to win, not "purge"...

Charlie Crist
Carlo Key (Texas judge)

Shall we start a list of heroic Republican dissenters?

Why not? Remember Arlen Specter then also, the current "pioneer"...

http://news.yahoo.com/shooting-reported-at-lax-international-terminal-171446507....

ONE man.....ONE gun

THOUSANDS of people's live disrupted......Really ? I do not believe that this man should have the right to own something that could cause this type of chaos, disrupting the rights of thousands of others to go about their lives.
Big mess...planes grounded, traffic backed up for miles, people leaving cars parked and walking with luggage towards airport.....a dead TSA personal, a wounded TSA agent.....
Think of it...ONE gun...ONE person.....all this mess. Must be a very fun toy !

Thank you for the right to bear arms !

Perhaps there will be dialogue now ?

How on earth are we going to monitor every entrance to every crowded public place to make sure some idiot isn't exercising his 2nd Amendment rights ? And at what cost ?

Pain in the rear getting into sports stadiums now....but rather the pat down than something like this.

LAX has some of the best security of any terminals in the U.S.......too many opportunities for this to happen anyway. I suggest if there were less than 300 million guns floating about in our society, the statistics supporting something like happening this would be a lot less.

Good for nothing....not a thing. No use for the things in the general public.

Only one commentator made perfect sense in all of the yammering going on. He said this "Security in this country is an allusion. We can not have as many weapons, in society, as we do today and expect to be secure. It is the price we are going to pay" Bravo !!! So gun owners...... the blood of others is paying for your right. Exactly ! Thus far, for many of us, that price is not too high to pay. Makes me rather sad......it does. Will there be a turning point ?

Note that he was firing at the security checkpoint. Adding more security checkpoints isn't going to solve that.

Security in the U.S. of A. = illusion

and getting more so every day. Just learn to tuck and roll.....I believe we have that right under the Constitution ?

One commentator was incensed because the guy wasn't stopped BEFORE he entered the building. Dealing with guns is kind of a whack a mole proposition, don't you think ? Find one loony and another will pop up somewhere else....of course if they all had licenses and safety courses under their belts we would all be fine. Yeah Right !
We are stupid.....or we simply do not give a rip about the lives of others. Which is the saddest......I find them both to be despicable when it comes to the careless, thoughtless loss of life of those who have found themselves on the wrong end of someone's toy.

We out lawed lawn darts as they were deemed to dangerous to play with. ?

"Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti said at a news conference later Friday that the gunman had with him at least 100 more rounds of ammunition that “literally would have killed everyone in that terminal.”

The only way to stop a terminal full of bad guys is to have one good guy with plenty of ammo !

Oddly, the message I got from the incident was that the TSA were exposed as true bullies.

Quite capable of harassing, humiliating, and intimidating hapless civilians unable to fight back; and completely helpless when faced with actual combat.

>62 BruceCoulson:
REALLY ? I didn't get that at all !
What I got is another insane attempt to figure out how a guy with a gun could do so much damage. Coupled with another,"work around" the issue, news conference from the government as to how they are going to improve security by adding more people with guns (which will cost more for those who want to travel by air), They will spend time and money investigating the how, and the why, the guy got into the building and every other bit of trivia other than the fact that we have too many guns in the hands of too many idiots to ever secure any public place anywhere in this country. (out side of doing a strip search at the doors......ALL of the doors. Don't like the x-ray machines ? Guess what folks....coming soon.....2nd amendment rights and all...you know how it is....better naked than dead.)
Plain as the nose on your face....is the answer.....so hard to figure out, so much time, money and blood spent on foolish speculation when the answer is crystal clear but "unmentionable" to lawmakers.

A search at the doors wouldn't help. That would just make the doors another security checkpoint, with large crowds of people to shoot at.

>64 Amtep:
"A search at the doors wouldn't help."

As things are, there is no help.

What ever....when a society has more weapons than people....it is not a secure...safe society. Telling us that they are going to make something secure is pure folly. Any body believing it is foolish. Holding airport officials, TSA agents and police officers responsible for something like this is unconscionable ...... it is not their JOB to do the impossible. Blood spit is a down payment on the "rights" of others. Should be viewed in that manner. Anything else is just not true.

#65

Umm, it's the job of police officers, security people, and military personnel to protect civilian lives...even at the risk (and possible loss) of their own.

I'm not holding the TSA 'responsible' for the actions of the shooter; I'm holding them responsible for THEIR failure to do their jobs. Are you saying that we can't criticize people and organizations when they don't meet their obligations? Just because that doesn't emphasize what you feel is important?

>66 BruceCoulson:
"I'm holding them responsible for THEIR failure to do their jobs."

Of course....it was the security guard....not the gun.

LOL............Why don't we load up society with 300 million weapons and blame some poor schmuck, whose job it is to filter 100s if not 1000s of people through one building, when some else gets shot. That way we do not have to look at what the real problem would be. Blame security NOT the gun, the person who had the gun and what that person thought the damn thing was for.

How typical this is.....are we to have security forces with x-ray vision ? Posted at every doorway in every public building....EVERYWHERE ? What the heck are you thinking ? Did not do their jobs indeed. Damn them.

They DID their jobs...the guy is probably a vegetable.....due to bullet to the head. Eye for an eye ! Fine with me...he probably didn't have insurance...we all pay for that garbage as well. Guns are nasty type toys...expensive and destructive.

"we can't criticize people and organizations when they don't meet their obligations?"

NO what I am saying is that we can't make someone's job damn near impossible and they blame them for the results....considering what went down at that airport....the hired help did a good job.

NOBODY security force has an obligation to fix stupid. It can not be done. They can only do what is in their power to do and we are handing them a loaded deck....every single day. To somehow BLAME them for the death at the airport is insane.
The fact that there are shootings every single day in this country is not the fault of security forces, police men or TSA agents. The responsibility lies solely with the hand that shoots the gun....and this country has almost no restrictions as to whose hand can hold a gun, who can hide a gun, what kind of gun they are allowed to hold or how much ammo they can stock pile. The attitude fostered around this behavior ? "I have a right" No you do not ! Not to my way of thinking. Nobody has the right to carry something around that may harm others. Sorry.....does not work in my world. When individuals insist that they NEED a weapon, generally, they are lying to themselves and everyone around them...they do not NEED a weapon. They WANT a weapon....and people are paying for that WANT. A heavy price. Selfish egocentric behavior on the part of those who would not make any attempts to stop what is going on in our schools, malls, airports....where ever some fool thinks he has a right to make a statement with a weapon.

You seem intent on mis-construing my meaning.

If he had a knife and had stabbed people, would you still absolve the TSA from their obligations?

This person was a problem. Let's forget about all the polemics, the 'it's the guns that are the problem' mindset, 'we can't ask people to do the impossible' excuses.

The TSA's job is to deal with problems. Along with the police, the military, etc. Now, are you going to continue to defend the TSA on the grounds 'well, the problem's too big for them, so it's fine that they made such a poor showing'?

I'm not 'blaming the TSA' for the initial actions; I'm pointing out that when those actions occured, they demonstrated how useless and pathetic they are; how, when faced with the sort of problem they are supposedly in place to prevent or resolve they proved utterly ineffective. Despite their proven track record of being able to harass, humiliate, and otherwise punish unarmed civilians.

If part of your job is to deal with terrorists, and you fail to handle a problem closely related to that issue.... I think some sharp questions are in order.

68> I don't understand your objection. From everything I've seen the TSA did a professional job. Whenever a person pulls out a gun in a crowded place and starts shooting at people, if only one person dies the security is probably doing a good job.

>68 BruceCoulson:
"I'm not 'blaming the TSA' for the initial actions; I'm pointing out that when those actions occured, they demonstrated how useless and pathetic they are; how, when faced with the sort of problem they are supposedly in place to prevent or resolve they proved utterly ineffective. Despite their proven track record of being able to harass, humiliate, and otherwise punish unarmed civilians."
I have been searched every time I've gone on a plane....I have a titanium knee. I have NEVER been harassed, humiliated or punished by a TSA agent...never and I've met a lot of them. I am glad they are there. I don't envy them their job. People are asshats....complain when someone gets shot......complain when someone tries to do something about a serious problem.....complain that security is going too far. Complain....just to complain I guess.

This BS rhetoric is probably why the kid was gunning for them in the first place. If one does not want to be harassed in public places by security forces, one does not live in a society with 300 million guns floating around in it somewhere. Can not have it both ways. They did their job.....

"I think some sharp questions are in order."

Yeah like.....where did this kid get the gun ? Was it licensed ? Who the heck lived with him and why on earth did they not know what he was up to ? Why and how did he get so many rounds of ammo ?

Airport employees did their job. Sadly, "we the people" are not.

>69 jjwilson61:
Not to mention that the TSA agents do not have guns....when faced with a gun, they need back up. Which arrived very quickly.

This is so indicative of how we operate today. I do NOT want my freedom's impinged upon but if I am hurt due to someone else exercising the rights they don't want to give up, well then someone isn't doing their job right.

NO.....more guns than there are people mean that people are going to die. I don't care who is standing where with another gun or whose "job" it is to stop them. It is really very simple. Not complicated at all. And certainly not the fault of those who are only trying to secure the airlines.
I imagine Bruce to be one of the first to cry foul if a "police state" were enacted but in all reality...the number of weapons out there and the ever increasing population means that the only way to "secure" anything at all is by instituting police states. Stop and frisk would have been in order outside the airport......metal detectors....licensed police officers on security lines at check in points. Welcome to America ! If we do not have intrusive measures we can not "blame" security for not doing it's job.

>71 dekesolomon:
Oddly you've made your point by proving mine :>0

Ah, the conservative mind at work.

What? Don't you see the well-reasoned arguments and careful fact-checking?

75> I just wish more people had her phobia (although maybe not her tendency to rant).

Actually, my favorites are all those who tell me they are "progressives" while they hope to shitcan the Second Amendment. Then they turn and tell me (as > 73) that I'm a conservative because I support the Second Amendment.

They're so ignorant that they don't know "liberal" from "conservative." They don't understand that a conservative is one who wants to weaken our civil liberties and/or reduce their number whereas a liberal (a true progressive like me) wants to strengthen our civil liberties and/or increase the number of liberties we are permitted (See the Ninth Amendment).

These trendy "progressives" have no solutions and are instead a large part of America's problem.

#77: They're so ignorant that they don't know "liberal" from "conservative." They don't understand that a conservative is one who wants to weaken our civil liberties and/or reduce their number...

Yes, it's ignorance to not agree with you on your idiosyncratic definitions of words. Like or not, in American English, conservative and liberal are based off the Republican and Democratic Party. More classic definitions don't help you much either; conservative is merely a desire to support the status quo or revert to an older one, something you've espoused several times. Liberal has some senses that talk about freedom and personal liberty, but the ones about being open to change are just as common if not more common. "Progressive" has nothing to do with liberty, except when it's simply a synonym for liberal; it's about going forward, about progressing into a brave new world, even if it's literally Brave New World.

>75 dekesolomon:
If it is considered a form of insanity to desire a safer less "armed" society....so be it. It is my opinion that interpreting something that was written in the 1700's in it's literal form is just as nonsensical as those who claim the earth is 6000 years old and that Jesus rode a dinosaur.....

The definition of "arms" has changed......as has the definition of "organized militia" Yet......if it is to the self serving advantage of those who would see others sacrifice their lives so as to up hold ideas that are clearly outdated...they will continue to interpret as they choose, no matter what they sound like or whose life and liberty it may cost.

I do not use flags......by the way. What you are seeing on your posts, I've addressed before. "Discussions" are not "belittling" sessions, nor should they be a platform for bullying. Yet you insist that somehow, the way you interact with others is affective. To some extent it is but I suspect not in the way you think....says far more about who you are than who I am.

>76 jjwilson61:
Yes....I rant. I am a child of the 60's....many of us learned to rant. Frustration often leads to ranting tendencies. Not sure why it is but every times some innocent person dies of a bullet wound and some idiot quotes the 2nd Amendment....it brings out my full "rant" mode. Because, as plain as the nose on my face, the second Amendment does not mean that a single person "militia" has the right to carry enough ammo to wipe hundreds of individuals, into a public place. I venture to guess that our "Fore Father's" may be inclined to have a good rant themselves if they knew just how their words have been twisted so as to make the innocent pay for the "rights" of other's. Arming yourself against the government today means owning personal arsenal of drones ..... who is kidding who ?

Unfortunately for me....I take the death of innocents personally......my first thought is how to avoid such a thing happening again. Currently, nothing is being done at all....in fact.......I suspect an uptick in gun sales every time some bonehead exercises what he feels are his second amendment rights. Going the wrong direction is rant worthy ?

I'm not sure that Mr. Solomon is the best person to learn not-ranting from.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/07/21350998-family-demands-charges-after...

And another one bites the dust !

> 79 -- prosfilaes writes: "Yes, it's ignorance to not agree with you on your idiosyncratic definitions of words. Like or not, in American English, conservative and liberal are based off the Republican and Democratic Party."

Solomon sez: I guess YOU don't understand that liberals were those who wrote the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution. Conservatives in those days were first called Tories and later Federalists. Liberals were known as Jeffersonian Republicans. There WAS no Republican Party as WE today know it and no Democratic Party either, at that time.

> 79 writes: "'Progressive' has nothing to do with liberty except when it's a synonym for liberal."

Solomon sez: OK. I get it now -- "Progressives" have no interest in liberty other than hiding behind the word "liberal" when they find it convenient and advisable to do so. It's nice to see you admit that. I've always been a liberal, so if what you say is true then I'll never refer to myself as "progressive" again. No wonder you Progressives can't get elected.

You'll never have a majority in America. But if you're lucky (and the rest of us are not), you'll get what you want one day. After that, you'll wish you had been a liberal and you'll look for someone to help you rebel from your own idiocy.

> 79 -- faceinbook writes: "as plain as the nose on my face, the second Amendment does not mean that a single person "militia" has the right to carry enough ammo to wipe hundreds of individuals, into a public place."

Solomon sez: I see. Your multiple phobias drive you to incoherence. Good news is, I think they can treat you with drugs, so you don't necessarily need to be confined.

> 81 -- faceinbook posts a link to a story from NBC News.

Solomon sez: I don't read the lamestream media, so I didn't chase the link and don't know how to respond.

>84 dekesolomon:
You could always respond as per usual......as it seems it doesn't require a firm grasp of what is happening to continue replying without taking into the consideration what you are responding to.

> 85 -- faceinbook writes: "You could always respond as per usual......as it seems it doesn't require a firm grasp of what is happening to continue replying without taking into the consideration what you are responding to."

Solomon sez: I always take into consideration what I'm responding to. If you don't always get respect from me it's because I don't consider that what you wrote in that particular post deserves any respect.

Having explained that to you (once is enough) I'll resume my usual treatment: thoughtfulness gets respect; idiocy gets trashed.

And by the way -- because you know nothing about killing, how it's done or why people do it -- I'll refer you to an excellent book written about killing by a retired Army psychiatrist who formerly taught psychiatry at West Point. It's called On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society, by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, US Army.

WaPo calls the book "An illuminating account of how soldiers learn to kill and how they live with the experience of having killed."

Give that a try. The latest edition has been updated to treat "suicide bombings, school shootings, 21st-century military conflicts, recent trends in crime and more." Maybe it will help you adjust to the reality of what you see going on around you. By helping you to learn what you vainly screech about at present, I hope to see you better armed (psychologically) in the future.

>86 dekesolomon:

" If you don't always get respect from me it's because I don't consider that what you wrote in that particular post deserves any respect."

You are probably correct...however, refusing to look at something is not always the best way to come up with a good response to anything. My responses come from my gut......killing is not something I find acceptable and though I understand it is bound to happen, I feel strongly that we as a society are not doing enough to make it more difficult to kill, in fact we are making it ever easier. If my response to this sounds screechy to you, perhaps it is because it is based on emotion......a desire to "act" against such tragedy, rather than justify it.

Thanks for the suggested reading. I do know one thing about killing, it is easier to accomplish if one has a weapon at hand. It is especially easy considering the weapons available to the general public....easy to do a lot of damage in a matter of minutes.......it need not be this way no matter who wrote a book about what. It doesn't take much to figure that out. One does not need a major in psychology to see that weapons are easier to obtain than a driver's license.......hence settling things with a gun becomes a viable option.
I do not believe I want to live in a society where it's citizen's are at "war" with one another, this means physically or verbally. Sadly many people have jumped on the "ugly" band wagon and treat other's like shit. Especially online......where words become weapons and "belittling" someone is a way of making a point. Sorry, it is not......just a way to show off who and what we ourselves are made of.

I do believe that the term "Lame Stream Media" came from a lame stream media source as it is. Your posts are chuck full of such whittisms and I've heard most of them come from a media source. So, you are watching or reading something.

If you don't always get respect from me it's because I don't consider that what you wrote in that particular post deserves any respect.

Nothing that you write in any post deserves to even be read. I've rarely seen such worthless brain-diarrhea as contained in your posts. How does all that shit taste while it is pouring out of your mouth?

> 88 -- StormRavin: I just dropped in on you to see what you're writing lately. What comes to me as I read your post is that you formerly accused me of talking shit out my ass. I replied that the shit coming out of my ass probably smells better than anything that comes out of your mouth. Now you assert that I'm talking shit out my mouth, and you want to know how it tastes when I do that.

Frankly, the taste is indescribable. So you're just left to wonder about that. I don't know what's wrong in your head that makes you want to know how shit tastes but if I ever see you, I'll let you steal a big, wet kiss from me. Then maybe you'll understand that what comes out of my mouth surely tastes better than anything your mother ever poured on your pancakes.

You're such a clever, witty fellow it's no wonder you've got so many clever, witty friends. But I'm tired of arguing about whose shit comes out of which orifice. So, even though it's obvious that's the direction in which all of your conversation runs, I'm going to pass on continuing that particular discussion.

I'll start blocking your posts again. No doubt your friends will enjoy your splendid rhetorical skills. If they don't, you'll have to troll for your own pleasure because I won't be listening. I think it's called oratorical masturbation, and I'm sure you do a lot of that. I expect you learned it from reading 7,000 sci-fi adventure novels and all of obushma's white house press releases.

Take care of yourself. Enjoy the smell.

Your friend,

Deacon

Nice ! Grownups debating using today's social media.

Sounds like a 2nd grade classroom if the teacher has to leave the room for something. The only thing missing is the mention of someone's mother.

> 87 -- faceinbook writes: "My responses come from my gut......

Solomon sez: It's clear that your responses come from your gut. If they came from your brain, they'd probably be more impressive.

faceinbook writes: "killing is not something I find acceptable and though I understand it is bound to happen, I feel strongly that we as a society are not doing enough to make it more difficult to kill, in fact we are making it ever easier."

Solomon sez: We certainly do make killing easy. When I think how many hundreds of millions of motor vehicles run the roads in this country and how many tens of thousands of people they kill, it comes to me that we DO indeed make killing easy. So maybe you should quit worrying about firearms and surrender your car to the Authorities. After all: hundreds of millions of firearms cause only a few thousand deaths annually whereas people like you (drivers) cause MANY, MANY more.

faceinbook writes: "I do not believe I want to live in a society where it's citizen's are at "war" with one another, this means physically or verbally.

Solomon sez: If you move overseas, most of us who live in the real world probably won't miss you.

faceinbook writes: "Sadly many people have jumped on the "ugly" band wagon and treat other's like shit. Especially online......where words become weapons and "belittling" someone is a way of making a point. Sorry, it is not......just a way to show off who and what we ourselves are made of."

Solomon sez: Read Orwell's essay, "Politics and the English Language." Maybe you'll recognize yourself in that. I doubt it because you are utterly deluded. You seem to think that an insult isn't an insult unless it's couched in four-letter words. That's how we got here.

Read Orwell. Take it to heart.

> 90 -- faceinbook writes: "sounds like a second-grade classroom"

Solomon sez: You ought to know.

Translation fairy

"You ought to know." = "Sez you!"

Gone.....as I suppose most other's have fled earlier. I am a ranter, a rambler.....not always clear as to what I am saying and I have often put my foot in my mouth but I will not continue to engage with "nasty". Discussions can be heated, sarcasm is a tool I am familiar with and a banter back and forth is fine but childish garbage is just that......childish. Done....

Can we rename this topic "The Children's Hour"?...

Children's SEASON

"Seasoned" children? Hansel and Gretel call your office?...

My children would not behave so poorly. It takes an entitled adult to act as though other people are only their for his endlessly repetitive "witticisms".

Let me add to this: yet it goes on (post 99)

Alrighty then ! Time for security personnel at every street corner.....across the country! The city needs to come up with some answers for this ! Every business located near this corner should be held responsible ! We simply can not have our children shot in the legs while coming home from school. MORE SECURITY PLEASE !

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Child-Shot-Brooklyn-Sutter-Avenue-Euclid-Av...

Folks.....let's remember to turn OFF those cell phones ! Yes, indeed, there are places where a cell phone is inappropriate ! (possibly deadly irritating to those around you)

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/shot-tampa-bay-area-movie-theater-21517384

So much for the idea that an armed society is a polite society. Fucker was texting during the previews.

During the previews? Throw the book at him. Everyone knows it's not justifiable until the movie starts. But then, out of politeness, you should always use a silencer.

He was just preserving everyone's right to see the movie (AND the previews) without unconstitutional interruptions. (The shooting was a constitutional interruption.)

Yep Our governor was quick to give ever more rights (conceal carry law) to gun advocates and/or owners but doesn't have time to deal with making sure that they have any responsibility (back ground checks....although I don't believe that this will be all that beneficial......goofballs and trigger happy idiots come in all stripes....including those with clean backgrounds) what so ever when it comes to those guns. Good one Walker !
Yeah....you are supposed to put your phone away in a theater......nothing about waving a weapon around though. Not to worry....the guy will never interrupt previews in a theater again. He will never text his daughter again. He will do nothing for ever more. Pissed off the wrong gun owner. Apparently a TRAINED gun owner at that ! What we need to keep in mind is the thrill of hitting a target on a shooting range at several hundred yards out. Puts things in perspective.

>105 Jesse_wiedinmyer:

I repeat : "What we need to keep in mind is the thrill of hitting a target on a shooting range at several hundred yards out. Puts things in perspective."

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/student-held-in-fatal-shooting-at-purdue-university/

Kinda gives "sending your kids off to collage" a new meaning ! Are we proud of ourselves yet ?

http://news.yahoo.com/39-several-injured-39-mall-shooting-outside-washington-171...

It will change because this is not acceptable !

Logical ???

Today there were individuals tucking and diving into hiding places inside of a huge shopping mall. People who were just going about the business of a Saturday morning. I heard one young girl say she started running and ran till she got to where she worked in the mall.
Three of them are dead now due to gun shot wounds.

What the hell is wrong with us ?

The excuse we are going to hear is that nothing can be done to prevent this due to the interpretation of a thought process, an idea and the words of a few men back in the 1700's.

Does this sound logical to anyone ? If it does, I would argue that they care very little for the lives of the three people who died this morning......actually they can not care a whit or they would have to try to do something to prevent three more from losing their lives tomorrow.

"But, our forefathers said" ? Really ? It doesn't even sound sane let alone logical.

OR
We can institute a police state with a police presence everywhere.....we can be frisked at will.....x-rayed before entering public places and accept the fact that Big Brother is watching us. Not for any malicious reasons (yeah right), simply for our own safety. A giant powerful force, protecting us from each other.

Sounds to me like those who would not demand a change are fulfilling a self made prophecy in which we are at the mercy of a militarized police force. BIG GOVERNMENT ! Heck it's enough to make the tip end of your gun curl ! We will have to demand more security and comply with a huge armed force (for our own good of course)......or get rid of some of the weapons....there are no other choices.

Just the other day....in the wake of yet another collage campus shooting, it occurred to me that some of the earliest shootings of this type took place in post offices and that there hasn't been a "postal" incident for some time....seems that people have issues other than postal problems. In fact most post offices are posted as a gun free zone. Schools, airports and shopping malls are drawing more ire from the "One Man Militia" than is our postal service. Rand Paul would like to fix this situation....Rand Paul hates to see innocent people at the mercy of marauding gun users. Arm the postal worker and allow guns on the premise....THAT way there will be less shooting in post offices. What do these guys use for brains ? Ahhhhhhh....forget I asked that.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/01/30/3227921/senator-rand-paul-rallies-re...

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?id=9421549

One wonders how this incident would have evolved if the old man hadn't been "packing" Watched his daughter trying to get him some leniency. Tears from her and the old man.....he should have listened to :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlBzre4-Krc

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/25/blind-florida-man-who-killed-buddy-gets-his...

Getting closer. As the insanity raises the bar....the pressure to make a change will increase.....and the changes will be harsh ! Clearly this is insane !

I am guessing this dude does not qualify for a valid driver's license.......he could kill someone. What he does with a gun on the other hand is protected by our forefathers. Right !

http://www.jrn.com/tmj4/news/West-Bend-man-accidentally-shoots-man-through-apart...

Guns in apartment buildings ! What fun ! Couch placement in one's living room takes on a whole new meaning !

Surprised he did not claim self defense. Clearly the guy needed this weapon for self protection.

For FIB: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10202827032690679&set=np.38037972.10...

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-march-10-2014/the-amazing-base---power-of-...

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/5/5683504/gun-control-the-nra-wants-to-take-smart...

Miserable idiots !!!!

Gun rights advocates don't make their arguments more convincing by threatening to shoot anyone who disagrees with them.

From the article in >119 faceinbook:: "It backpedaled less than 24 hours later, after gun-rights advocates lashed out on Facebook and called the store, threatening to shoot Raymond, his girlfriend, and his dog."

Also saw this one yesterday about bullying women who advocate for better gun laws: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/guns-bullying-open-carry-women-moms-...

Some gun news: http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/bad-guys-guns-hold-patrons-outside-gun

ETA: http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/responsible-gun-owner-day-was-showing-his

more gun news

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/gun-seller-second-amendments-customer-gun

http://www.news10.net/story/news/nation/2014/06/17/man-accidentally-shoots-himse...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZG43nFJOw8

10 minutes of a overweight guy in a kilt with a huge military gun walking around a Wis. Target store.
Skip to the end. He films himself checking out and he films his pin number. 2353 Plain as day. The intelligence level of the heavily armed is a scary thing indeed.

William Polster is well known in these parts:

http://www.jsonline.com/news/ozwash/open-carry-supporter-walks-with-guns-in-germ...

https://gma.yahoo.com/15-old-stopped-more-killings-texas-111335439--abc-news-top...

Just another day in the land of the free and the home of the brave ! Can I have a drum roll please ??

"Gunfighter, gunfighter where do you ride,/what do you fight for today?/Gunfighter, gunfighter who's on your side/-- gunfighter ride away..."

http://www.jrn.com/tmj4/news/TRAFFIC-ALERT-Traffic-slowing-near-I-43-and-Good-Ho...

Keeping our roadways safe !

Keep gunfighters off the roads!...

>129 Michael_Welch:
Nah.......What we need is cars equipped with bullet proof glass. Wouldn't want to interfere with "2nd Amendment Rights " !! We all need Pope Mobiles !!!

http://www.jrn.com/tmj4/news/10-and-11-year-old-Milwaukee-children-shot-while-ri...

2nd Amendment collateral damage !

http://www.jrn.com/tmj4/news/Chief-Flynn-Mayor-Barrett-call-out-remorseless-reck...

Does the pope have "conceal and carry"?...

Here's a good one.

http://kitchenette.jezebel.com/armed-men-with-soiled-baby-arrested-at-new-mexico...

It does pay to look at the first picture in the comments.

Well "Jack's in the box" all right (what? me worry?!...)

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/local/door-county/news/2014/08/22...

Another responsible gun owner ! Registered and all ! Just misplaced the thing.....Sorry ! GUNS ARE NOT FUCKING TOYS !

We need a police presence at amusement parks !!!! Better safe than sorry ! Stupid stupid people !

Toy guns were MY joy as a child -- but when I became a man I put away childish things?...

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-police-chief-shot-dead-during-traffic-stop-041459378...

It may seem as if this is unrelated to Ferguson, Door Country, Trayvon Martin, etc. etc. etc. AND militarized police forces....but it's not.

http://news.yahoo.com/texas-police-chief-shot-dead-during-traffic-stop-041459378...

It may seem as if this is unrelated to Ferguson, Door Country, Trayvon Martin, etc. etc. etc. AND militarized police forces....but it's not.

The police are NOT always "thrilled" with the idea of everyone in the general public packing guns as per NRA...

http://wtvr.com/2014/08/26/gun-instructor-killed-by-girl/

Can ANYONE justify why on earth a nine yr. old girl needs to know how to shoot an Uzi ????? Self defense ? Tyranny ? Anything besides playing with a weapon. The problem is that most people who want these type of weapons are morons. License or not ! They want to play with guns.

>141 faceinbook: Ethics aside, I'd question whether a nine year old, even a beefy one, would have the physical strength to handle such a large weapon. Surely someone was aware of how much recoil one of those packs? Maybe the dead instructor?

>142 RidgewayGirl:
"Surely someone was aware of how much recoil one of those packs? Maybe the dead instructor?"

He should have known. The parents should have known. Someone should have had half a brain. The problem is the more we as a society "play" with guns the more cavalier the attitude towards safety and the less thoughts as to what a gun is actually made for. If guns are now toys, we will start treating them as such.

At some point automobiles became deadly weapons and we devised all kinds of laws, licensing and registrations around the usage of them. It appears that our Constitution protects guns from being taken as seriously.

There are so many things wrong with this particular situation. The guy lost his life, the girl has to live with it the rest of her life.....the parenting thoughts that went into thinking this was an amusement of some sort. An instructor who obviously was not familiar with 9 yr olds. Just a mess. For entertainment ! To "play" with a deadly weapon. NOT what guns are for. They are NOT toys ! and kids should not think they are.

#141--I was just looking at that on the yahoo front page. Just fucking crazy. The parents are off to the side videotaping this shit. Absolute morons. Why anyone would allow a business like this I have no idea.

>144 lriley:
"Why anyone would allow a business like this I have no idea."

Because, as my old soul child, would say : "America has taken the gun and turned it into a hobby, a toy, entertainment and then hidden behind an outdated document, written in the 1700's, so that no matter who gets hurt or how many die, they can continue to do so." "And behind it all mom ? Money"

The saddest part is that the gun means more than the life of anyone. Even if, and I am not saying this would happen, the gun were going to have to be given up...isn't a life worth more than your stupid gun ? Seriously ? A dead child is worth less than a hunk of metal ? Apparently so.

the parents probably thought this was "cute"....they have absolutely NO concept of what a gun is FOR...none. I would argue that they are among a great many individuals who don't understand.

One of the comments on Yahoo, AGAIN, was the fact that guns do not kill people, people do. I agree and most people should not have guns. Many people are too unpredictable, intellectually challenged, too young, too old, too stressed, too tired, too sick, there are a myriad of reasons for not picking up guns on a daily basis. Not having them "at the ready". We are just plain insane on this issue.

the owner said that they had 5 and 6 year olds shooting shot guns....if this is not a play time, then what the hell is it ? 5 and 6 yr. olds should not have guns. Kids can not get a hunting license until they are 12 or 13 and they have to pass a gun safety course. What the hell is wrong with people.

this issue pisses me off.....royally. If I were standing in front of someone right now and they said that "gun's don't kill people", I think I would bust them in the chops....it may be an old lady swing but I would give it all I had.

What amazes me about this story is that in every other area of American life, children are ridiculously overprotected. Take a look at any modern playground. Children are shielded in every conceivable way from potential danger and lawsuits. It's hard to believe that in this one area, it's anything goes. I agree--on the subject of guns, this country has lost its mind.

>141 faceinbook:, >142 RidgewayGirl:, >143 faceinbook: Based on the photos that ran with some of the news stories the whole thing was being treated as the equivalent of an amusement park ride. For instance there were signs on the premises which said something like "Here's your chance to fire a real machine gun" so the "justification" would seem to be that of an amusing diversion. (And just so we are clear on this - I think the whole idea is about a stupid as one can get).

It's not so much the recoil as it is the muzzle climb. When I was in basic one of the first things the instructor did when demonstrating full auto fire with the weapon we were going to use was to hold it "Hollywood style" and pull the trigger. The end result was the first round went down range and the rest when anywhere and everywhere.

I've forgotten the name of the movie but around the time of my basic there was a war movie in which the good guy grabs two German MP-40's (one in each hand) and blows away an oncoming horde. In real life, if he had held and fired the weapons in that manner, his first two rounds would have gone in the general direction of the enemy and the rest would have been shot in a rising arc and the weapons would have flipped out of his hands as his arms reached the vertical.

Based on the brief YouTube clip (pardon the pun) it looks like that is what happened only, because of the way the young lady was holding the weapon the climb was in an arc to the left.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/nra-tweets-ways-shooting-ranges-can-be-more-f...

GUNS ARE NOT TOYS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hold a profound distain for every commentator , every gun instructor, every person interviewed about this story who used the words "I am surprised" REALLY ? Where the hell have you been ? Nine yr. olds with Uzi's, militarized police forces and EXCESS military weapons. What did you think was going to happen ?

At least we broke up the collective bargaining for teachers in Wisconsin. We are on the right path at last !

When did American's get so dumb ?

There are no words...

>151 SimonW11: We are one messed up country.

In Munich, ten year olds take public transportation with friends or on their own. The kids' school even let us know explicitly that this was acceptable. My kids walk up to the park on the next block on their own all the time. We have been warned, however, that while children do love the greater freedom and responsibility they get here, there are often problems on returning to the US and they having to adjust to being restricted on what they are allowed to do. And people leave their sleeping infants in the car when they run into the post office or grocery store all the time. Of course, they take the weather under consideration and don't do this on a warm day and the stores are smaller and it's easy to get in and out in five minutes. And there isn't a culture of fear here, but one of watching what people do -- everyone keeps an eye on loose children, more to make sure they don't, say, litter or jaywalk, than to keep them safe, but eyes are on them nonetheless. But the very idea of letting a child shoot an automatic weapon for fun? That's not even a possibility.

>151 SimonW11: this editorial sums up my feelings exactly.

It is official ! As a society we have lost our collective marbles. Some are surprised, many saw it coming and even more are frustrated. Not sure we can turn this ship around but if we do, it will not be the government that will be making the changes needed to do so. It will be us, our neighbors, those we work with or associate with. It won't be for our own selfish reasons either, it will be because we are thinking of someone other than ourselves. It will be for the future of our young. Living for what will be the best in the future rather than for instant gratification.

Good luck with that !

Now how come this doesn't surprise me ??

http://www.amazon.com/Concealed-Handbag-Christian-Symbol-Crosses/dp/B00MJ28SIS/r...

And then this little, well thought out, beauty.....LOCKED emergency weapon ? I suppose the "bad guy" with the gun will wait for the "good girl" with the gun to unlock her weapon compartment ?

http://www.amazon.com/Premium-Leather-Crossbody-Locking-Concealment/dp/B00B2AQFO...

MORE !!!

http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Toten-Mamas-Concealed-American/dp/B00EG41I84/ref=sr_1_...

http://www.amazon.com/Concealed-Carry-Messenger-Purse-Cross-carry/dp/B00LS2AN06/...

We wouldn't want to "pack" without style !

http://community.aarp.org/t5/Politics-Current-Events/Militia-Group-TARGETING-Min...

Oh Goody !!!!! Who said guns were about self defense ? Who ? I want to hear that again ! Cause I think we've crossed a line folks.

http://www.jrn.com/now-trending/Louisiana-restaurant-offers-discount-to-gun-carr...

Again. I need to know WHY the need to arm one's self. Get a cheaper breakfast ? What the "F" are we doing ? Just plain nuts. I hope I live to see the day the push back comes.

And then there is always this type of crap :

http://www.jrn.com/tmj4/news/two-dogs-shot-one-killed-near-state-line-278593991....

Have gun will use ! Why the heck not ?

"Paladin Paladin where do you roam?/Paladin Paladin far far from home..."

And even more crap. Someone laughs at you? Shoot them!

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/indiana-man-shoots-and-kills-13-year-old-neig...

Then there is this genius......
http://www.whby.com/index.php/News/WHBY_News/414733

There are far more people who shouldn't own guns than there are those who are able to handle it.

http://article.wn.com/view/2014/10/27/Washington_state_shooting_Second_girl_dies...

We should be ashamed of ourselves and the wussey way we are handling guns in this country. Led around by the nose by a bunch of moneyed CEOs and lobbyists. While children die. What kind of country does this ? My answer ? A very selfish country.

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article2593223.html

Let the games begin :>000

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/shaylee-chuckulnaskit-third-marysville-school-shootin...

SHAME on us !!!!

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ohio-police-fatally-shoot-child-carrying-toy-gun

Saw this one coming for a while.

I just read that on the local news website here in Australia. it was just above the the following story:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-24/fatal-police-shooting-officers-deserve-ben...

Queensland is one of our states, about 1/5th the geographical area of the US, though a population of not quite 5 million. The south east corner (where the capital is) is probably about the size of L.A. (?), and with 5 shootings since april. It's a worry.

Here in the UK no one has died as a result of a police shooting in two years. One policeman is currently awaiting trial for murder. after a shooting in 2005.

The most troubling aspect of the Cleveland shooting is that while the person who called the police reported that the person of concern was not an adult and that the weapon was probably a fake, the police responding did not apparently have that information. I suspect that "juvenile waving around a probably fake gun" would be approached differently than "adult with a weapon at a playground."

>170 RidgewayGirl:
TOO MANY GUNS IN OUR SOCIETY ! Twelve yr olds take guns to school. Grade school kids take guns to school. Young kids shoot each other on purpose and by accident. There are no assurances that parents are careful with their guns, in fact just the opposite seems to be the norm. IF the cops assumed that the gun was a toy, decided not to shoot and the kid started shooting other children, they would have been in big trouble.
I would not want to make the calls that cops have to make today.

My middle child (the Glenn Beck groupie) and I had a huge argument about this a couple of months ago. He bought his kid a toy gun. I had a fit. We do not live in the 50s or the 60s or even the 70s or 80s. Toy guns are made to look real and real guns are made to look like toys. Any parent who buys their kid a toy gun is putting their child in danger. It is a fact that we can not assume anything any more when it comes to guns. There are 300,000,000 chances that the stupid thing is real.
Of course my grandson got in trouble with his stupid toy gun......stuck it in a kids ear and pulled the trigger. It was an air gun but the mother of the kid called the cops.....cops came to the house and my grandson at the age of 10 has an incident on his juvenile record of mishandling a toy gun. I do not blame the cops.....I blame my son for this insanity. My son does not own a gun, my grandson has no idea how to handle a gun and if he came upon a real one he would not know the difference between a real one and a toy . Stupid, stupid, stupid. Not the cops fault, not the kids fault......completely the parents fault. Guns are not TOYS !!!!!!!

>171 faceinbook: '...real guns are made to look like toys' Can you post an example?

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0LEVya6jXRU1pkAXB9XNyoA;_ylu...

https://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=AwrBT8lAjnRUMTEASxRXNyoA;_ylu...

Do NOT blame the cops for this crap. The gun manufactures make them and they sell or they wouldn't make them any longer.
If we, as a society, are this stupid, than we have to be prepared to sacrifice a few kids here and there. It really is quite simple. Not complicated at all.

I wish someone had the kahuna's to just come out and say it....just lay it out there, quit with the "bad guy with a gun" crap, the "self defense" and "fighting tyrannical government" shit.
Just man up :
"My gun is MY toy and I will not give up my toy cause some kid died" "Not going to do it" "Pry the thing out of my cold dead hands and don't whine to me about your cold deal loved one cause I don't give a crap"
THAT is exactly what it is.... the person would be telling the truth for once ,not using dead forefathers and NRA talking points to make their case.

Leave the 2nd Amendment out of it cause our forefathers did not mean for us to do what it is we are doing now with "fire arms" as they understood them to be.

Quite often Europeans express to me their...shock, dismay, anger, bemusement, relief...at what a bizarre, fucked up place the US is. I generally try to get across to them that until they have actually been there they can't truly understand that it is worse than they think. Occasionally something suggests that it is worse even than I think. Link in 174 served that purpose.

>177 RickHarsch:
Yeah....self defense ? BS Tyrannical government ? Crapola Bad guy with a gun ? Anyone can become the "bad guy with a gun" Anyone at all. A cop, a father, a brother....anyone who so ever.

Guns are now toys and it seems that the cost of our children lives is not too dear a price to pay. Can't tell who the kids are with the real guns or the adults with the toy guns or visa versa......cops will need to shoot first and ask questions later. Not their fault. No time for sorting things out when guns are concerned, not any more.

http://news.yahoo.com/atlanta-dog-dies-protecting-family-shooting-police-2040486...

No arrests made. Probably not looking all that hard either. Who wants to find the delightful human specimen who decides bullets are the way to settle a road dispute ?

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/02/01/2-3-million-triaminic-theraflu-product...

FOUR kids ????? Nobody can have any flu symptom relief cause of four kids ? Bullets ? Who the hell cares about bullets ? When did we lose our collective minds ?

I know ! I know ! The only way to stop a bad baby with a gun is a good baby with a gun ! OR if only more people in the store would have been armed they could have shot the kid first ? OR maybe if mom had TWO guns she would have been able to draw and shoot before she was shot ?

Stupid frickin people and their stupid frickin guns......gun owners are looking more stupid every single day. Granted they have the power on their side but power doesn't equate with intelligence....that is pretty obvious.

Heard on the news.....and this is the problem in a nutshell
"Grandfather of child who shot his mother claims that his daughter was a responsible gun owner !"

THEY ALL ARE....every blasted one of them...it just doesn't matter. Guns are made to kill something and they do and will. People have them to use them.....or misuse them...does it matter ? Nope...not at all.

Calling out all gun advocates as self centered selfish idiots ! You want to hunt ? Rent a gun....you want to shoot at a range....rent a gun. Owning a gun puts everyone at risk. Thanks a lot !

It is a terrible story. I suppose what gets me is the way we've settled for living in a world where carrying a gun is considered the responsible thing to do. The mother carried a gun with her as a matter of course. It was a habit. Why, I wonder, is a trip to WalMart considered dangerous enough to go armed? And why, if it is so dangerous to go shopping, are we spending our energy arming ourselves, instead of spending it on making a shopping trip a less hazardous endeavor? Why is having a gun better than living in a society where you don't feel the need to carry one?

From the outside, the relationship with guns that the US has looks like just one more facet of their Bold Experiment in Freedom.
Clearly enough US citizens believe that the freedoms they have are worth the costs. A sort of "Live free or die" mentality.

>183 faceinbook: Guns are made to kill something and they do and will.

(sarcasm) But guns don't kill people! People do!!! (/sarcasm)

It seems like anytime there's an "accident" with a gun, almost all the owners are "responsible" owners, but if that was so there'd be a lot less accidents happening.

>186 rastaphrog:
Every gun owner is a responsible gun owner until the one time they are not. The more guns the more chances for that "one time".

>185 binders:
A fair number of American's value their guns over the lives of anyone or anything....up to and including their own children. Says a lot about a society. What amazes me is that the same people are constantly surprised by the increasing violence in the forces that police their society. They also seem somewhat amazed at the cold heartedness of the powers that be. Really ? This is the society they are creating.....things mean more than people. Self means more than "other".......don't get it.

>187 faceinbook: "A fair number of American's value their guns over the lives of anyone or anything....up to and including their own children. Says a lot about a society."

Apparently a fair number of Chinese value their New Years celebrations over the lives of others. Does that say anything about their society?

http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/01/world/asia/china-shanghai-new-years-stampede

>188 cpg:
You are comparing apples to oranges.

>189 faceinbook:

You are comparing fatalities to fruit.

>190 cpg:
No actually I am comparing deaths to bullets.

Buying a gun is not an accident...loading a gun is not an accident.....carrying a gun is not an accident.

Stampedes are spontaneous events.

Guessing you own a gun.

" Does that say anything about their society"
In answer to this question......yes it does....just as trampling fellow shoppers on Black Friday in the U.S. of A. says something about OUR society but it has nothing to do with the gun culture we've fostered in America and continue to put up with. One is accidental and stupid the other is calculated and stupid....the most they have in common is stupidity.

I'm trying to imagine what the response would be if that Idaho mother with a gun had been black. Instead of a picture of her smiling with her kid, there would be a pic of her on her worst day, glaring at the camera with a cigarette dangling from her mouth.

"Irresponsible"
"Criminal"
"Thug"
"So stupid"

And now we have a gun lover who's built a "shooting range" in his backyard...

...in a residential neighborhood, and, IT'S LEGAL!

http://crooksandliars.com/2015/02/florida-ammosexual-builds-homemade

I propose a National Voluntary Gun Registration movement.

The clever people without guns would have a large sign on the front and back doors (and windows) of their homes and businesses: NO GUNS HERE. It should be clear that this sign should be interpreted not just as a declarative sentence, but also as an imperative one: If you're planning to break into my home, or rob my business, you must leave your guns behind ( in the spirit of the 'nuclear-free zones' enacted by certain city councils).

The stupid people with guns would have a sign saying GUNS HERE. (There are already semantically-equivalent signs: "I DIAL .357", "IF YOU ARE FOUND HERE AT NIGHT YOU'LL BE FOUND HERE IN THE MORNING", etc.)

It's time the clever people stood up to be counted!

IF YOU ARE FOUND HERE AT NIGHT YOU'LL BE FOUND HERE IN THE MORNING

I'm betting that the parents and grandparents of the fine individuals posting this sign grew up in "sundowner" towns.

>194 Doug1943: IF YOU ARE FOUND HERE AT NIGHT YOU'LL BE FOUND HERE IN THE MORNING

Always love those people who eagerly brag about their ability and willingness to kill someone.

>196 prosfilaes:
"Always love those people who eagerly brag about their ability and willingness to kill someone."

Heart warming isn't it ? Somehow these are often the people who arm themselves.

The stupid people with guns would have a sign saying GUNS HERE.

That way the criminals know to show up armed and shoot first, while the owner is asleep.

>198 StormRaven: I think that was Doug's point (in his usual sarcastic tone).

199: No, I'm pretty sure he was making a different claim - that people who don't have guns are stupid and should expect criminals to break in their homes and shoot them.

If we could make all handguns vanish, and prevent them from appearing again, I would be all for it, (for a few generations anyway, until we make another civilizational leap).

But in the US, it's way too late. The people who don't have guns, or who would give up their guns, are precisely the people whom we don't have to worry about having guns. The loonies, the criminals, the lumpens, will not lack access to firearms, whatever well-meaning law is passed. This is just the sad reality.

>201 Doug1943: The people who don't have guns, or who would give up their guns, are precisely the people whom we don't have to worry about having guns.

How about, only allow women to have guns. If men are worried about their safety, they can seek out a woman who will be able to protect them.

>200 StormRaven: You're right, my mistake.

SouthernBookLady .... Ever read Kipling's The Female of the Species?

>201 Doug1943:
" The loonies, the criminals, the lumpens, will not lack access to firearms, whatever well-meaning law is passed. This is just the sad reality."

NRA parroting points. Over and over and over and over and over....... Please, I am not stupid.

>201 Doug1943: The loonies, the criminals, the lumpens, will not lack access to firearms,

I'd be much more impressed by that argument if it was being applied to marijuana (which can be grown in a closet) instead of guns (which require sophisticated metallurgy.) I don't know of many illegal items that are as hard to create as a gun.

>201 Doug1943: The loonies, the criminals, the lumpens, will not lack access to firearms, whatever well-meaning law is passed.

Indeed. People will break laws, therefore, all laws are pointless, since they will only affect the people who would follow them anyway.

I apply it to marijuana, and also to every other drug. Any drug you like is easy to get, even if it requires technology that no lumpen would be able to master, because there are clever people who are eager to make a dollar supplying the demand.

If all handguns vanished from America today, my guess -- okay, it's just a guess -- is that they'd be rolling over the Mexican border tomorrow. You could have draconian penalties for possessing one, but, again, I suspect they would deter only the already-law-abiding, and perhaps people on the margins of law-abidingness like me, who would obey through fear, but not the violence-prone, low-IQ, lumpens of America. It didn't work with drugs.

As counter-evidence, that is, against my belief, you could take the UK, or Australia, which have very strict gun controls: I don't know the data in detail, and I only have anecdotes about the actual availability of handguns in those countries, how common handgun use was before and after the bans, etc, so I couldn't counter any argument using them as examples for the US to emulate. The problem here is, as with all comparisons between countries, is their very different prior histories, geographic situations, demographics, and current cultures, which makes it hard to use even good data from one country to advocate something in another. (I know there are people who think, "If it works in Sweden, it'll work in Nigeria". But there are also people who think fossils of dinosaurs were put here by Satan to tempt us to believe in evolution.)

There are studies about the correlation of concealed-carry laws and crime, which appear to favor concealed-carry laws, but as with almost all such studies (pro- and con-) the authors had strong beliefs before they carried out their study, which makes such studies suspect in my eyes. Social scientists tend to find the evidence they start out looking for. (And, as I tell the kids I teach statistics to, 'As soon as the exam is over you can forget how to calculate a correlation coefficient, but you must always remember: correlation is not causation'. Yes, Laramie, Wyoming has lots of guns and concealed carry laws and low crime, New York City has strict gun laws and, relative to Laramie, high crime. But Laramie is populated mainly by horrible old racist homophobic -- remember Matthew Shepard! -- Islamophobic male-chauvinist reactionary flag-waving white Christian fundamentalists, and would have low crime anyway (except for Thoughtcrime of course, which is no doubt rampant)).

It is really very very simple. More dangerous items out and about, the greater the chance of harm caused by such items. Does it matter whether it is crime or accident ? Calculated or impulsive ? The recent shooting done by toddlers to the parents is proof enough.
The huge number of weapons in society is very significant , it is very selfish to assume that everyone handles a gun the same way you do. It is not true. Not realistic. Just a selfish talking point so as to keep something that really is not essential to daily living and has the potential to do irreparable harm.

The answer as I take it is to throw one's hands up in the air and say that it is too late.....yeah well, sadly for many individuals it really is too late. No bringing back a dead loved one. It is never too late to find a solution...never.

Hang on to that toy, enjoy it now.....cause one day the wrong kid is going to die and it will change. Those whose arms were all up in the air are going to look like a bigger fools than they do already.

I thought I might find some further commentary on that toddler who shot his mother in an Idaho WalMart, but googling today, I see some copycat incidents in the past couple of days.

One in New Mexico

Another in Florida.

And Three children are dead all using guns that belonged to family members who are characterized as "responsible gun owners" by other family members.

>210 2wonderY:
" guns that belonged to family members who are characterized as "responsible gun owners" by other family members."

Being responsible doesn't have the same definition for everyone and there really aren't many guidelines with guns......kind of a "free for all".(how stupid are we ?)

It doesn't matter how responsible a person is with their gun....if it is in use, in a purse, or dresser drawer or any place other than a locked case, which makes it useless in any perceived emergency, there is a chance of something happening with the gun. Just is. No talking or excuses or extra special responsibility can change that fact. Guns are dangerous toys. The decision shouldn't be about whether one feels they "need" to have one but rather the degree to which society is harmed or helped by a large number of dangerous toys being in the possession of all types of handlers. Apparently there are those who feel that the loss of life is less important than their right to do what ever it is they feel they need to do with weapons. To me that is about the saddest thing I can think of. I would give up just about anything to keep a child safe and well. A gun is one of the least important things I can think of. If someone wants to harm me.....I will be harmed, screw the gun if it means a child will live.

Seriously, it isn't about anything but giving up a toy. Nobody can convince me otherwise. Not going to happen. Guns were not meant to be toted about on a daily basis. By anyone, if someone is, they should be stopped from doing so, it isn't safe.

If you want to keep your children absolutely safe, one of the things you should not do is own a gun. About a hundred children die from accidental shootings in the US every year.

But before you do that, you should definitely take away their bicycle! . Add up the under-15s killed while riding their bikes (in 2000) in Table 1 ... bikes are seven times as dangerous!

>212 Doug1943:
But before you do that, you should definitely take away their bicycle! . Add up the under-15s killed while riding their bikes (in 2000) in Table 1 ... bikes are seven times as dangerous!

Oh for God's sake... another NRA BS talking point. Yes a child may get hurt on a bicycle.....or a jungle gym or jumping rope or engaging in a ton of other things they play at BUT.......in general, they hurt themselves....they do not drive over their father, their pregnant mom, a neighbor or a neighbor's child and kill them with their bicycle.
A bicycle is a personal choice made by a parent that can possibly cause harm to the child. Gun's are a personal choice made by a parent that could cause harm to.....well hell, who knows to who ?

Who needs a gun for what ?

Don't go there with the bad guy has one crap. In countries where some types of guns are banned the weapons are sold on the black market and cost thousands of dollars rather than a couple hundred. Which makes them far less likely to be owned by criminals (another NRA BS talking point) The harder guns are to get the less likely a criminal will have one. VERY SIMPLE.

>212 Doug1943: This argument gets destroyed by cost-benefit analysis. If your goal in having guns is to protect your family and not to hunt, that hundred children means that guns are a complete fail in that department. One hundred people, not all children, die in the home every year from a violent invasion, so more children die from having guns then could conceivably be saved.

The goal of having a bike is exercise and transportation, mainly, so it's not a simple fail; it's not clear that bikes don't save more lives then they take, and the value of the improvement in life from a bike versus the risk is discussable.

Well, you have an argument against stupid and careless people having guns.

But you don't have an argument against my having a gun (were I to live in the US). All of my relatives in Texas and Idaho have guns -- quite a few, in fact -- and they're pretty responsible about them.

Nor is it clear to me what would happen in the US, where there are literallly tens of, if not several hundred, million guns, were there to be the kind of ban that anti-gun people would like to see. Gun bans have worked in countries where there were few to start with, and which are relatively geographically isolated -- and where the overwhelming majority of the population tend to be law-obeying. Or so I think. But I doubt that such laws would work in the US. I think we would become more like Mexico or Russia -- nice principles on paper, but a horrible reality in practice.

Nor do I buy the cost-benefit or crime-prevention statistics from either side in this argument. I think the people who do the work begin with a pro- or anti-gun position, and then find the data to support their cause. And I've never met anyone who appeared to be willing to change their mind, if the data went against them.

At the end of the day, it's a cultural thing. You either trust the government enough to protect you from predators, and don't like to hunt, or you don't trust the government very much and/or do like to hunt. I don't like to hunt.

But you don't have an argument against my having a gun (were I to live in the US).

Everyone is a responsible gun owner. Until they aren't.

>215 Doug1943: Nor do I buy the cost-benefit or crime-prevention statistics from either side in this argument.

Then stop wasting our time with them. If you don't believe in 212, then don't waste our time with it.

And I've never met anyone who appeared to be willing to change their mind, if the data went against them.

What's the point in discussing it if you admit that you aren't willing to change your mind no matter what and that you don't think we are either?

Prosfilaes: I'm all for data, as much as we can get. Perhaps I should have worded my sentiments this way: I don't trust the analysis done from the data, by either side.

Of course, I think that I am willing to change my mind if I encounter disconfirming evidence, as you probably think about yourself too -- although of course that's probably wrong for both of us in lots of cases. I've changed my mind about a number of political/social questions over the course of my life, as I learned more.

However, I don't think that the argument, If all guns were banned, no, or fewer, children would be shot with them, is an argument with much force, given the small number of deaths from guns relative to deaths from other things, such as bicycles.

And I also don't think it's even possible, as I said, to genuinely quantify the benefits in terms of home protection vs the costs in terms of accidental deaths. When the savages were looting and burning in Ferguson, the shops that remained safe were those protected by rows of men with guns. That's a good thing. And when the sub-human white trash of the Ku Klux Klan were rearing their heads in the South in the 60s, I was pleased to be able to raise money on my college campus, and deliver it in person, to the Deacons for Defense and Justice in Bogalusa Louisiana. When the state doesn't want to protect you, you protect yourself. Same thing.

We can argue about details. If I could make all handguns vanish, I would. They're next to useless in combat situations, and are also the most dangerous weapons in the hands of children and untrained people. So if classifying them in the same way we do, for example, hand grenades, would actually make them as rare as hand grenades, I'd be for it. I just don't think that in the American context it would actually work. That's just my judgment, I could be wrong.

In any case, the argument for the right to bear arms does not mainly center, in the eyes of the anti-banning people, on home protection alone. It's a general attitude of the rights proper to free men, and this attitude is different in the US than in Europe, where a much greater degree of state control of people's lives (deny the holocaust, go to jail! ) is accepted.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/suspect-shooting-students-12-guns-stash-ammo-...

We should, as a society, be ashamed of something like this. Self defense ? Hunting ? Sport ? OR just plain toys. Dangerous ugly toys for a dangerous ugly person. Anyone can own one ! Why not ? Three beautiful young people gone.........again.

>219 faceinbook: This happened in my town. All of the media is touting this as a hate crime, but no one is mentioning the stash of guns this guy had. If he hadn't had these guns, whatever his motivation, those kids would still be alive.

http://news.yahoo.com/one-killed-five-wounded-shooting-spree-phoenix-suburb-0120...

Shame on the person who supplied this idiot with a GUN. Where were the other 299,999,999 guns when this little incident was taking place ?? Maybe if we had 300,000,001 guns floating around society this could have been prevented ? Yeah, that sounds right. Let's go with that.

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-blames-obama-racial-tensions-trayvon-martin-shoo...

This guy has huge one's !!!!!!!

So does this guy. How arrogant !

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ted-cruz-signing-obamacare

http://news.yahoo.com/kansas-lawmakers-approve-concealed-carry-without-permit-00...

One more step to gun safety and heightened responsibility ?

Stephen King ✔ @StephenKing
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Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration act is gay discrimination, pure and simple. You can frost a dog turd, but it's still a dog turd.

7:51 PM - 30 Mar 2015

http://news.yahoo.com/two-fatally-shot-van-strikes-toddler-milwaukee-122426320.h...

Guns do not make for a "kinder" "gentler" society. How many people want to stop after hitting something now ? Just never know who is packing and what kind of mood they may be in.

Life in the U.S. of A. INSANE !

So in 2013 the Violence Policy Center awarded the state of South Carolina the dubious distinction of "Number 1 in the nation in the rate of women killed by men. "

This prompted a series of reactions, including an in depth investigation by the Charleston Post Courier into domestic violence that just won the Pulitzer along with a number of legislative bills designed to address the state's reputation for being soft on people who commit domestic abuse.

The legislation has stalled, however, apparently because one of the provisions is that guns should be removed from the homes of abusers.

>228 southernbooklady:
"The legislation has stalled, however, apparently because one of the provisions is that guns should be removed from the homes of abusers."

What on earth would make people think a woman's life is any more important than a second graders ? In line with the thoughts on a different thread, I would say it is not wrong to suppose that our value of the child comes before the mother and if we do not care about dead elementary children we are not going to give a rip about the moms.

Of course....it is apparent that American's value the "right to bear arms" over the "right to life".

We've passed a tipping point ?

Typical answer ? "Well it's not the gun !" " Nothing wrong with the gun !"

http://www.scrippsmedia.com/tmj4/news/4-dead-1-hurt-in-random-shooting-on-Menash...

People do not buy guns to "look" at them. Guns are for shooting. Does anyone think a background check would help with this kind of crap ? OR gun safety lessons ? NOPE.....American's use guns because it is not only acceptable there are those who encourage the use of weapons.

http://news.yahoo.com/wisconsin-man-opens-fire-family-fight-girlfriend-183420312...

OK...now we have the dumb ass reason this idiot armed himself with TWO guns and shot people he did not know. Nobody should be faulting the police in this country for much of anything, in fact I am surprised that anyone wants the job. WE have reached a tipping point. Everyday is a day at the OK corral.

http://news.yahoo.com/york-police-officer-shot-head-dies-injuries-newspaper-1700...

http://news.yahoo.com/video/gunman-identified-attack-outside-muhammad-185334640....
(although what would induce one to want to be a security guard outside of such a blatantly inflammatory event, I do not know. Perhaps money but..... Serioulsy ? I know I know freedom of speech. Makes a bunch of people act like total dicks.)

Guns Guns Guns We love our guns....we love our right to carry guns........we care little what it means anymore as long as that right is protected by the NRA and our lawmakers. To the rest of the world we look like a pack of lunatics.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/chicago-endures-violent-memorial-day-weekend

Hmmmmm lawmaker wants to make stricter gun laws. Really ? Do you really think that those who get in the line of fire may not have gotten hurt if there was less of a possibility of a line of fire ? Geez, what a concept !

http://news.yahoo.com/nevada-man-not-guilty-killing-unarmed-trespasser-070756786...

His property....his fear....his gun....his rights. Seems that individuals are now allowed to inflict the death penalty for crimes and misdemeanors.

http://news.yahoo.com/gun-blamed-rise-la-county-deputy-shootings-174044276.html

Guns do not kill people...people do ! HA......guns are machines...machines made to do a specific thing. Machines are not perfect. We know that. Or do we ?

And now we have a nutter mall cop who killed a woman who worked in the mall that had filed a sexual harassment complaint against him.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/iowa-open-carry-nut-gunned-down-mall-worker-who-...

Well...she should have had a gun. This is where we are heading with all this "my way or the highway" and if not I'll "get you" crap. Throw some more weapons out there. Keep things friendly and nice.
It JUST occurred to me that most people with guns are frightened people (this I knew) and the only way they can try to make everyone feel the way they do it to take an AR-15 with a 100 barrel to an airport.
I don't think that the reasoning behind this is listed in the 2nd Amendment.

http://news.yahoo.com/shooting-erupts-church-charleston-south-carolina-021744448...

It will start.....anyone who didn't see this coming on Nov. 5th 2008, was not paying attention. This is directly related to our top lawmakers....no doubt about it.

https://gma.yahoo.com/shooting-kansas-leaves-4-dead-dozens-injured-090143269--ab...

From article :

"I’m really saddened by this horrific event," said Excel CEO Paul Mullet. "My heart goes out to all of the employees, all of their families.”

Yeah well then, will your heart continue to support lawmakers who refuse to address this madness. Really, if this isn't dealt with I think this entire nation needs mental health care....this boarders on insane. If this is the result of the 2nd Amendment in the year 2016, that amendment has outlived it's usefulness. No excuse what so ever for the gun madness in America....other than selfishness.

And on and on :

http://www.redwoodfallsgazette.com/article/ZZ/20160224/SHAREABLE/160229926/-1/ne...

Because we all know how careful kids are with their things ! A HANDGUN ! Not a hunting rifle, not a sporting gun....a HANDGUN. Meant to aim at other human beings....perhaps their friends or siblings ?
What the FUCK is wrong with this picture ?

I do not know ALL gun owners and while I am sure that there are responsible (law abiding citizens ...repeated adnausium) who own and handle guns, one thing is perfectly clear. Those lawmakers who represent gun owners have lost all filters. They clearly can not self govern in any way what so ever. They've crossed a line. They are using children now to make a sick sorry argument that we are all better off with a weapon of mass destruction for our immediate use. Not for using because we have been invaded by another country.....or because we are being attacked on a daily basis by wild animals.......Hell no ! We have to point them at and threaten our fellow citizens...we have to be "on guard" against those who would not see things our way....those whose values do not match our own.....they will steal our country and destroy our values.

What a crock.....what a sad reflection on who we are. Gun owners who are not dealing with this because of a fear of losing their sidearm are just a guilty as the lawmakers who push the crappy useless laws through. SELFISH ON A NEW LEVEL OF SELFISHNESS. Our children are being USED !!!