Posting should take you to the bottom

When you post or reply, it should take you to the bottom of the topic, where the new post is.

I'm not sure if it worked this way before or not. @ConceptDawg says there's no code to do it, but I feel like it did it before.

Anyone else notice this?

What I've always seen is that making a new post doesn't move the window at all. In order to post at the end of an ongoing thread, I scroll to the bottom, type in my message, and click "Post message." My new message then shows up immediately above the now blank text box for typing a message. The page hasn't scrolled at all.

Surely I'm not the only one.

>2 lorannen: Well, that was different. When I posted that, the window moved, but it merely brought the "Add a message" box to the top of the page. Very odd.

I'm finding it somehow "off." But, honestly, I'm not sure how.

Note: If you want to play, post here https://www.librarything.com/topic/116766

>4 timspalding: Now, in that thread, it's exhibiting the behavior I expected (as described in my first thread).

It might be dev vs. live, no?

Surely I'm not the only one.

Only one what?

I went and posted in the thread you linked to, Tim - now normally, I read all of a thread, scrolling down through the whole thing, then type in the Add a message box. But I have clicked Reply in the middle of a thread now and then - and I don't remember a box opening right there! In fact, I seem to recall having to scroll up to find the words I was replying to.

The box at the place you click looks very much like a threaded post - I think it will confuse people.

ETA And both there and here, the window didn't scroll to show me my post. There, I was looking at the first post; I had to scroll down to see my post. Here, I was looking at the Add a message box (because to reach the Post message button I'd scrolled past all the posts) - my message was immediately above the box, but it was not at all visible on the screen.

I haven't tested what you're talking about here, but on a potentially related note, after reading this thread I went to a different one, where there were posts from a member I have blocked, but given the topic I wanted to see them, and clicking show sent me up to the top of the page. That has definitely never happened before, and is a terrible behavior!

PolymathicMonkey, fixed that (code typo). Thanks for the report.

Woo! :)

>10 .Monkey.:-11

I almost feel that might be a good thing. As it is now, blocking is too easy to override. Perhaps conversation would be better if seeing a blocked message required watching a twenty-second clip from Ishtar, or something.

LOL. It is simple, but there are times you want to be able to see, like bugs or the occasional topic that doesn't seem likely to involve much opinion or whatever it is that made one block them in the first place, or just because of a reply someone made to them. In a long thread, that would be insanely irritating!

(*ahem* that being the jumping to the top, not watching a clip of Ishtar ;))

I posted a message on the test page, it posted, but left the add a message box open below. I think I had actually noticed this behavior earlier, but was too busy to note details.

Something has gone wrong with the "reply" button. The second time, it won't work.

15: Do you mean the "Add a message" box the bottom of a talk thread page like this one? If so, then that one is supposed to stay there (and always has) after you post. If something different then let me know and I'll see what's amiss.

2/25/14, 5:15:56 PM Christopher Holland: You are the worlds worst bug reporter.
2/25/14, 5:16:00 PM Tim Spalding: Sorry.
2/25/14, 5:16:05 PM Christopher Holland: We should get you a hat.
2/25/14, 5:16:11 PM Christopher Holland: A trucker hat with that on it.

My new bug report:

1. Edit or post a new message.
2. Try to edit it again or to reply to anything else on the page. The area opens, but nothing is in it.

See http://cl.ly/image/0N1b0W1e2T0p (edit) and http://cl.ly/image/3c1i0k1T2R1f (reply)

19>I've been seeing this today, but hadn't reported it as I couldn't figure out when it did that.

That's a much better bug report. You no longer have to wear the hat. Not all the time anyway.

cD: How much to ship that hat to my boss?

17> Something is behaving differently, but I suspect it is not a bug, just a difference. Should only post in a thread like this when I have time to think things through....

brightcopy: How much you got? We're in dire need of that hat here. Can't let it go. ;)

23: I'm still looking at an error when doing edit->reedits. But that should be solved quickly.

19> Is is possible you're clicking the Edit/Reply button and then hitting space or delete? I'm finding everything selected (as someone complained elsewhere) when I hit Edit - so if I hit space or delete there'd be nothing in the box.

The yellow flashing of a new message has also gotten much darker - I'm seeing people complaining about it. There's no yellow flash on an edited message - don't know if there should be (not quite sure what the point of the yellow flash is, anyway).

ETA If you reply to something else, after posting a message in the thread, there _shouldn't_ be anything in the box. That's correct. There should be something if you edit, though.

2/25/14, 5:16:05 PM Christopher Holland: We should get you a hat. (#18)

Tim can buy a boat with the millions that he bathes in, Scrooge McDuck style.

When editing a post it now inserts the cursor at the end of the previous text. I think that's the right thing to do.
Incidentally, the original code always intended to select all of the text but it never really worked. Upgrading some backend framework actually caused it to work as originally intended...though that was a poor intent. Anyway, it's now just moving the cursor to the end of the text block and not selecting anything.

Posting now takes you to the bottom. Feedback is, as always, welcome. Good feedback is even more welcome. If you're going to complain there's a line in the building next door.

:P

#18, 22, 24: I'm seeing real potential for this item in the LT store.

> 29

I don't like this. I find it disorienting.

(And what's with the weird fading?)

It's always faded. Did you not see it?

> 33

I have never seen it fade until yesterday!

If you mean the yellow pulse, it's always done that. Now, you weren't taken to the bottom of the page so you may have missed it, but it also did/does it when doing an edit.

It must have been a long while since I've edited a post (or even added one). I intend to post this JUST to edit it, so as to see the effects being spoken of.

I think the "yellow pulse" thing is more accentuated than it was; perhaps a different color, or more intense? I don't know that I find it pleasant, but I probably wasn't noticing it before. It seems before that when I'd written something, I would then see merely the empty box for adding a message, and the message appeared above it (but I needed to scroll up to see it).

Having the cursor go to the end of previously typed text is fine, but I'm fairly sure that I never noticed the yellow flash before (and my eyes are old, and don't much care for clever transitions, so I'm sure I'd have noticed).

I don't like the new behavior, but I expect I'll get used to it. Presumably the intention is to make people read a thread all the way through before posting; I'm not sure it will do that, though, and expect that it may instead just make people post early and then not read the rest of the thread at all, rather than posting early and then reading the rest of the thread afterwards.

And yeah, the yellow pulse is much brighter/stronger for me than it previously was. By a lot.

I agree with @lilithcat, that it's disorienting. I'm not sure whether it was there before, but I think I'd have noticed it. I deliberately use an older version of Firefox just so that most clever things don't work. Books are good. I like them. Text is also good. I've even returned to mostly paper (rather than digital) because it's easier on the eyes.

I also agree with @lorax, who said ...it may instead just make people post early and then not read the rest of the thread at all, rather than posting early and then reading the rest of the thread afterwards.

37 & 39: I tend to agree with you about the disorienting and the result being that people are less likely to go back up and continue reading. We'll see what other people have to say before changing it back though.

Are there people that really LIKE the move to the bottom after posting a reply?

Love you, @conceptDawg, appreciate your hard work, no, I hate it. It doesn't help the conversation move along at all. I like that "reply" opens up a dialog directly below the thing I'm replying to, although I think that "save message" is a misnomer, and should only show when I'm editing, rather than posting.

Sometimes things aren't broken, you know. Please please PLEASE get rid of that yellow crap.

Love you, @conceptDawg, appreciate your hard work, no, I hate it. It doesn't help the conversation move along at all. I like that "reply" opens up a dialog directly below the thing I'm replying to, although I think that "save message" is a misnomer, and should only show when I'm editing, rather than posting.

Sometimes things aren't broken, you know. Please please PLEASE get rid of that yellow crap.

Hey, if I click on "Reply" to a message I've replied to already, it just takes me to what I'd typed, rather than letting me make a new reply. That's not what I'd expect it to do. I don't find it a good thing.

"Edit" should be the only thing that takes me to a previous post. "Reply" should continue to create new items. Really.

Note: After I posted this, it created a new reply (I'm leaving the previous one so that what I say makes sense for anyone trying to follow along).

That is to say:

I posted the original reply, using the "Reply" button.
I clicked on the "Reply" button again, and it took me to the text I'd previously typed, so I added text. When I selected "Save message" it posted it as a new reply.

I'll bet that's not what you meant it to do.

42: Thanks for the input. I'll check on these things.
It's just the reply isn't getting cleared correctly after it's submitted.

Still no input from anybody that likes the "drop to the bottom after reply" behavior?

Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?

It's always been my opinion that there shouldn't be a reply option on every message but only at the bottom. Having the reply on every post makes it seem like it's threaded when it isn't.

What I have always disliked about the old behaviour is that people who don't know the site well expect their answer to be with the message they are answering. Therefore they don't label it. it gets really hard to figure out what they were answering.

Well, Tim obviously thinks "warp to end" is the desired behavior, or he wouldn't have opened the bug. Maybe he'll explain his reasoning?

I clicked on this thread - it was at the top of my talk list It did not jump down to the unread entries (47 to 50) but stayed at the top (1). I have seen this happen occasionally but I don't know if it related to being the top entry in the list after clicking the talk tab or not.

I'm running on Windows 7 professional running on Chrome.

The fading on a new message is a bit different as well. When I click on 'post message' it goes from white quickly to something that looks like a light brown background and then fades to white. I thought the background was either sort of pink or yellow before but I don't remember. The fading is faster than it used to be. I have not changed hardware or OS or Browser.

Yeah. I'll be changing the color of the pulse to be a lighter shade of yellow.

But let's not get sidetracked from the main question of "move to the bottom" when you reply to a post at the top of a thread.

Is that behavior a good or bad experience?

And to be clear, Tim wanted it but I'm not sure he wants it now that he's seen it in action (I haven't chatted with him about it). Many things are like that: they sound good on paper but once you use them it's obvious they aren't the correct choice. This may or may not be one of those occasions, because there are also times when I think some action is completely annoying or obvious and everybody else thinks I'm wrong.

This is probably not one of those times because they are rare. ;) (there would normally be a rimshot sound here)

I am in agreement with #45 -- there shouldn't be a "reply" option after each post. Of course, if you were to take it away, I'm sure you would hear all about it from those who are accustomed to using it.

#45 by @jjwilson61> This is already prevalent on the majority of non-threaded web bbses that I can think of, so I don't think people are really confused by it. It's much more annoying to have to go to the bottom of a topic and then not be able to easily refer to the specific post without scrolling back and forth and back and forth. Kind of like how I'd have to do replying to this post which is a screen away from the bottom at this point.

I think the "Reply below each post" ship has sailed long ago.

A few quick points:

1. The "reply" option is going to stay. I'm afraid this is a case of "a foolish consistency." I understand the reasoning, but it's very convenient to be able to write something next to the text you're replying to. My posting would be altered completely if I had to keep scrolling up and down as I replied in depth to someone. Do people get mislead into thinking it's threaded? Maybe occasionally, if they haven't spent any time looking at topics before jumping in. But they're quickly disabused. Anyway, not changing.

2. The yellow pulse is not to make people read stuff through, but to indicate what has changed on a page when you do something that adds text but doesn't reload the whole page. I agree, @ConceptDawg made it too prominent. I'm glad he's dialing it down.

3. I like the way it slides to the bottom. I'm a pro at moving around a document. If I want to get to the bottom, I hit "end" on my super-wide keyboard. But that's atypical, and I think the functionality is optimal.

I think the "Reply below each post" ship has sailed long ago.

And I'm sailing on it, drinking rum and yelling at the landlubbers.

> 56

1. Thank you.

2. I think it's weird that I never noticed it.

3. One of the things I dislike about this is that I sometimes reply to a post in the middle of a thread and only then read the remainder of the thread. I also sometimes read the whole thread, and then go back to reply to a post, or multiple posts. Being automatically sent to the bottom of the thread would mess me up when I do that. And, as I said earlier, I find it disorienting to be taken someplace on the thread other than where I put myself. This would be true if I were sent to the top, too.

#57 by @lilithcat> Yeah, gotta agree with #3 there. I'm big in favor of the Reply on every post, but as part of that reasoning I don't want it to jerk me out of my place when I hit save.

Maybe when the new post is inserted at the bottom of the thread, it could provide a link for "back to message 39" or whatever it was you clicked Reply on (as long as it wasn't the last message on the thread).

>56 timspalding: @timspalding: I'm fine with reply, and with it opening up a window. If I'm replying to something, then I don't want to go to the bottom after I'm through. I stopped to reply but am NOT through reading.

I caught onto conventions here quickly (but I've spent my life in the tech world, so you'd expect that). Yellow pulse is still extraneous information. It doesn't add to the conversation, but I'm fine with not reloading the page (which would be bad).

I don't like going to the bottom after I've posted a reply. Watch for potato guns from the shore, boyo. I'll scuttle that ship before you know it. :-}

Off to the day. No having fun without me. Reply shouldn't send me to the bottom; I'll lose track of where I was reading. Really. Have a heart.

56>

Nobody has problems getting to the bottom. Getting back to post 56, after responding has automatically jumped you to the end (which may be post 217 in a large thread that's fast-moving or which you haven't checked for a while) is less trivial, and I suspect many people won't bother. So I think this functionality is solving the wrong problem.

It's not like I think the poll is going to do any good. This is something Tim says he won't find useful, that only one person on this thread has said they like, that AFAIK was never requested earlier, and that won't affect Tim's famed Non-Talk-Using User that he often uses to discount poll results he disagrees with, but yet it's "optimal". Maybe some people really do like it, though, which would make me feel better about it.

I'm fine with reply, and with it opening up a window. If I'm replying to something, then I don't want to go to the bottom after I'm through. I stopped to reply but am NOT through reading.

If it doesn't take you to the bottom, are you sure it really posted anything?

I dunno. Seems like the default should be to show you what you did—indeed, THAT you did something.

63> Has any user ever said that this confused them? Because I see posts every day where someone has added a reply which can't be made sense of because they were responding to a post way up thread and didn't realize that the rest of us can't tell that.

May I humbly suggest an automatic addition of "Reply to nn" to the top of any reply to a post that isn't the last one. And to satisfy brightcopy you could make it a link to that post.

I need the reply option on all posts, because scrolling down and up is a PITA and would be miserable. However, I do not post until I've read everything (what if someone's already said it and made my post totally redundant? what if there's several more things I want to reply to? etc), I simply ctrl+A ctrl+X as I move down the page. Maybe I'm just weird, I can't say, but I find it the best option.

I agree with Tim that being at the bottom once you've posted just makes sense.

I also agree that tons of new users have to be told that "Reply" under a post does not actually do anything to connect to said post and their responses are therefore confusing (you'd think they'd notice this themselves, clearly they're seeing what we're seeing, but somehow until being told they continue to think there's some relation between the post and their reply), and it'd be nice to have some sort of automatic text included that points to the post, like brightcopy's script does.

testing - replying to post 60.

OK - no, I don't like this. As others have said, getting back to where you were (particularly since replying now marks the whole thread read) is a pain. 99% of the time I don't reply until I've read everything, and I just remember which posts I wanted to reply to (by number) and scroll back to them once I get down to the bottom. So having this won't actually change my system. But on the rare occasions when I do hit reply immediately on some post, it would leave me highly confused and make it a pain to go on and read the rest of the thread.

It _might_ make more new users notice that their message came at the bottom instead of where they replied - but without any means of determining where that message was that they replied to, I think it would cause more confusion, not less.

And yeah, the yellow flash has been here a while but not this dark. I'll be glad to see it lightened up again.

We do have another indicator that we've posted, too - the yellow flash. I'll take the darker flash if we get the previous "stay where you were" reply behavior back.

We do have another indicator that we've posted, too - the yellow flash.

No, because the flash happens where the message is posted. If you are replying up at 20, you submit and then… nothing. You have to scroll to the bottom to see if anything happened.

68>

So change where the flash happens, then. I had thought the previous behavior was post-flash-disappear, but it's possible I'm remembering that wrong.

>69 lorax:

Can you say that a different way? I'm not following you.

Hit "post message". Have the complete message appear wherever you were, and flash just before it vanishes away to the bottom. I thought that was what had happened before, but apparently I'm misremembering.

I've implemented a possible compromise. When you post a reply to another message it stays where you are so that you can continue reading the thread without losing your place (as it always has) but it now also displays a small message letting you know that your reply was posted at the end of the discussion (with a quick link to take you down to it, if you wish).

This has the bonus of helping new members by showing them where their reply went.

This is an example of it.

Also, I toned down the yellow flash/pulse on the message background.

>73 timspalding: and >74 conceptDawg:: Is MUCH better. I prefer this compromise.

How long does that "your reply was posted at the bottom" message stick around?

(Or until I refresh the page, which works just fine)

Forever—until you go away and come back.

#73 by @timspalding> I like it. I think it's a good compromise.

Yeah, this works fine for all.

74>

Thank you!

#64 by @jjwilson61>

Testing... I like it!

Could I also request the automatic addition of a link to the message you're replying to, as added to this message by brightcopy's LT Auto Link Replies greasemonkey script: http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/103613

Not only is the link useful for later readers to see what you're replying to, but it's also useful for the poster. After posting your reply, you can click the "bottom of the topic" link to see your reply, then click the back link to continue reading where you left off.

#80 by @r.orrison> Hop on over to this thread:
http://www.librarything.com/topic/170872

Just noticed you took out the "you post is at the bottom" notification if your post was already the last message in the thread (though I'm not sure how it handles if new messages come in while you are typing). Good call. I thought about complaining but figured it was going to get too fiddly.

I don't think it shows it when messages have come since you loaded the thread, I don't recall seeing it.

I don't think it shows it when messages have come since you loaded the thread, I don't recall seeing it.

What's the it?

The message that your reply has posted at the bottom. Was in response to "(though I'm not sure how it handles if new messages come in while you are typing)" from brightcopy.

So, you're saying that if there are new messages, it doesn't show the message now?

I wasn't really paying that close of attention, honestly, I could've just overlooked it.

Huh. Well, I just replied to the last message in the thread and got the "your post is at the bottom" message even though no new posts came in or anything.

A bit more testing shows that it ALWAYS happens when you use Reply (even if it's the last message in the thread) and never when you use the regular new message form at the bottom of the thread.

looking for that your reply is at the bottom link - test

ah, there it is. Ok. not bad.

Just showing this as fixed.

Just showing this as fixed.

Just showing this as fixed.a