Next year

I hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by setting up this thread, but it seems like time to start talking about the 2015 challenge! I'm particularly thinking about next year's CATs, as I know they generated a lot of discussion and controversy this past year! Should we keep the same CATs or pick new ones? Should we stick with three CATs, or should we have more (or fewer)? Who will be in charge of them? And how should we vote on these issues?

Basically, I think we should start talking about what we'd like the 2015 Category Challenge to look like. Hopefully everyone will get a chance to voice an opinion, and we'll have a great, thoughtful discussion!

Do folks still want an unofficial AlphaKIT? Quite a few folks participate.

Thanks for setting up the discussion, Christina.

I know that several people have ideas for new CATs, but first can we all discuss what we liked and disliked about this year's CATs? Did you use them to stretch your reading or more as a way of choosing which book from your TBR to read next? Did you have a category for one or more of the CATs in your own challenge? Did the CATs change what you read, and was that good or bad? What did you think of hosting a month, if you did so? Would you be willing to host a month next year?

We had an explosion in participation this year, which is awesome! And the KITs were also popular, especially the AlphaKIT, which is beginning to look like a fixture of the Category Challenge.

This was my first year participating.

It was difficult for to me to try to participate in both the GeoCat and the MysteryCat, and I felt like that spread me out too much. I think it would have been more enjoyable and interesting for me to have focused on one, rather than trying to do both. But that doesn't mean I think we should only have one, because not everybody may be interested in the category. This was really my personal learning, and next year I would probably only pick one to focus on.

I ended up choosing more mysteries than geoCAT picks. This did stretch my reading, as I don't tend to read in this genre, and I was able to read several classics in the genre that I had been meaning to get to. I also enjoyed all the introductions and suggestions for reading.

I did like the RandomCATs a lot, and participated every month so far. They provided some fun and spontaneity.

I liked our CATs for this year. The GeoCAT is probably the one I'm most fond of, and the one I would most like to see come back in 2015. My reading tends to be very U.S.- and U.K.-centric, so it's good for me to be "forced" to read books outside my own culture. I would be OK with varying the format somewhat, though -- maybe focusing on different regions, or perhaps specific countries?

I really liked the MysteryCAT too, but I would prefer to focus on a different genre next year. While I (and many others in this group!) love mysteries, I know some people don't. So maybe we could try a different genre in 2015 -- SciFiCAT? FantasyCAT? HistoryCAT (fiction and/or nonfiction)?

The RandomCAT has probably been the most challenging for me, since its very nature prevents planning in advance! Also, sometimes I'm just not as interested in a particular topic, so it's harder for me to find something to read. But I do enjoy this CAT and would be happy to see it return.

I don't really have ideas for any other CATs. We did an AwardCAT in 2013 that could be fun to revisit (although I personally don't tend to follow literary awards). I'm not particularly invested in the AlphaCAT and probably would not participate in it, although I don't mind if others want to do so.

Also, I'm happy to host a month for any and all of the CATs! :) I have already hosted a GeoCAT month this year, and it's not hard or time-consuming at all! All I had to do was post the discussion thread and write a little intro about the region. So if anyone is hesitant about hosting, I'd encourage you to try it out!

(edited to fix typo)

I have participated in all of the CATs this year as well as last year, but not the KITs. Three is as many as I want to keep up with, particularly since I do other challenges like Reading Through Time. I haven't had nearly as many outstanding reads this year as I did last year, and more disappointments. I attribute the difference to last year's AwardsCAT. I've enjoyed the GeoCAT, but I haven't enjoyed the MysteryCAT so much. Mysteries are my go-to genre so I'm going to read them anyway. I use the CATS both to stretch my reading and to move books out of my TBR stash. The MysteryCAT has helped with the TBRs but it hasn't stretched my reading too much. I'd love to see the AwardsCAT again, but I think just for major book awards and not genre based awards. I still enjoy the RandomCAT and I'd like to see that one every year. I'm hosting a GeoCAT but not until December, so I can't comment on how it's gone for me this year.

Let me start out by saying, KIT? I missed something there, 'cause I don't know what it is. Not that it would matter much, I think, as I'm already having trouble keeping on top of the mysteryCAT, which I love but is also fairly 'easy' for me because I read a lot of mysteries. I tend to let the theme of the month decide which mystery book I'm picking up next.

As for another genre CAT next year, I do think it would be fun to try out another genre. I'd definitely be in favor of a HistoryCAT.

I did try the GeoCAT, but wasn't able to do it together with the MysteryCAT. I do like the fact that there's more than one CAT to chose from. If, say, the next genre CAT would be Sci-fiCAT, I wouldn't join in, but there'd be another CAT for me to enjoy.

As for possible CAT topics, I don't have any particular ideas. I do like CATs that are broad (like the GeoCAT and the RandomCAT) because it increases the change I can find a book for it that I like. On the other hand, the AlphaCAT was too broad for me. Too much was allowed, taking the challenge out of it entirely. I really like the GastroCAT and that's the kind of CAT I'd perhaps participate in next year.

>7 Samantha_kathy: KIT is the name attached to the unofficial CATs.

And to put this out clearly at the beginning, before people become invested in one idea or another: please remember that CATs are optional. If you dislike a CAT, you can just ignore it. If your favorite doesn't get picked, that doesn't stop you from reading as much of that kind of book as you want in your own challenge, or from running your own KIT -- which has the advantage of knowing that it will be run exactly the way you want it to -- the regular CATs tend to be stretched into a different shape from the one they started at when the idea is first proposed. The sad fact is that by running everything through a vote, nobody will be entirely pleased.

And could everybody keep an eye out for people who might like to participate in designing next year's CATs? Christina put the word out everywhere, but it can't hurt to bring it up to anyone who hasn't weighed in that you think might be interested. Tell them we have cookies.

This was my first year participating in the 2014 Category Challenge and I limited myself to creating my own 14 categories. I didn't really understand how the CATS worked, but now that I've seen it roll out over the past few months, I think I've got the idea. I will probably only commit to one in 2015 (mysteryCAT most likely) though I would be adverse to trying something completely different (sffCAT). And I'm totally bewildered by what a "KIT" is!

Oooh, it's always exciting to talk about next year! I think three is still a manageable number of CATS, and we should keep the RandomCAT and vote on new CATS for next year. What were the runners up from last year?

I did not plan accordingly this year, but next year I would like to have a category for the CATS by itself in my own challenge. I use the CATS primarily to weed out my TBR, but every once in a blue moon I tiptoe out of my comfort zone just a bit.

I enjoyed the MysteryCAT of course, because that's mostly what I read. I find the RandomCAT to always be fun, since you don't know what it's going to be ahead of time. I would definitely host a month if we continue with either of those CATs next year.

I think that the way we did it last year with the voting, was great, I never get that emotionally tied to an idea if it gets vetoed, I'm a "go with the flow" kind of gal:)

I haven't participated very much in the CATs and KITs this year. I have been using them mainly to see what I might read off my TBR that will fit the monthly themes and my other challenges. I have spread myself a bit thin this year with 4 different challenges on the go, as well as the Bingo challenge. Next year I am thinking of creating a CATs/KITs category so that I can participate more.

I enjoyed hosting one of the RandomCAT months and would be willing to host another CAT monthly theme next year.

I also really liked seeing the monthly themes posted a couple of weeks early.

I haven't participated as much as I meant too as real life got in the way but I do enjoy the CATs and would like to have some version of the GeoCAT return. I'm another who would like to choose some genre other than mystery since I'll read some of those anyway. but whatever is decided will work OK for me.

For those inquiring about KITs: basically, they are CATs that weren't "officially" adopted by the group at the time of voting, but were added later by interested individuals. You may also see KITs referred to as "unofficial CATs." I believe they have a smaller participation than the three official CATs, although the AlphaKIT appears fairly popular.

Edited to add: So basically, the KITs are evidence that no matter how thoroughly we discuss our options ahead of time, the challenge will still grow and change throughout the year, and people will add elements that interest them!

>1 christina_reads: I like the RandomCAT and would like to continue with it, but switch out the other two.

>2 majkia: I like the AlphaKIT. It can help me get to things I might not otherwise get to.

>3 RidgewayGirl:. I use the CATs to help me pick out what I'll read next. I have so many books on my tbr that it's a nice way to focus.

I might be able to help host a month next year, but I might need some help/guidance in what I'd actually be doing there!!! :-)

I was just thinking about this and wondering how others are planning to structure their personal categories. I'm having trouble coming up with something that will work for me, so I'm looking forward to seeing what others do.

I've never done the CAT challenges so can't comment on those. Have fun with them, though.

Ok, I specifically replied to a few questions at the start of the thread, and will now "freestyle" my own comments. :-)

I think RandomCAT gives a mix of things throughout the year and that's why I would like it to be one that continues.

I only joined at the start of this year, so I missed out on any voting or figuring out how it would all work. It was already set up. That being said, I think voting is the best way to go to figure out which ones to focus on. Maybe nominations, then voting? For voting, we could each pick a top three (or however many CATs we decide to go with)?

I see a few people are throwing out ideas already. I had two ideas (or maybe three, but two are similar): HistoryCAT (or HistFicCAT, Historical Fiction, but a HistoryCAT could potentially include fiction, I guess) and BioCAT (Biographies).

I liked the AlphaKIT, as mentioned above. I thought I might also try the Gastro one, but I just had too many games/challenges/etc to be able to add an additional one in (one that was trickier for me to come up with things, as it was more focused).

>17 Nickelini:. Oh, the categories? I often use games/groups/challenges as a category. I keep mine pretty broad, as I have so many different challenges and groups to fit books in for, it would be too difficult otherwise. I do have other broad categories, like Canadian, nonfiction, continuing series, off the shelf (books I own, I get so much from the library that it's nice to try to get to some of my own, too!).

One idea I had was a GenreCAT, which would focus on a specific genre each month. Sort of an opportunity to dabble in a bit of everything. I would also be interested in a SFF (science fiction/fantasy) CAT or a HistoryCAT, if it included both fiction and nonfiction.

Did you use them to stretch your reading or more as a way of choosing which book from your TBR to read next?
I try to do a bit of both.
Did you have a category for one or more of the CATs in your own challenge?
No, that's not how I work.
Did the CATs change what you read, and was that good or bad?
Since I mostly try to work with Mt TBR, and I read a huge variety, no, they don't really change things. They help try to pull out ones that are getting ignored, or maybe ones I'm overlooking at the library.
What did you think of hosting a month, if you did so? Would you be willing to host a month next year?
I would certainly be willing.

I think 3 is a good number, RandomCAT stays, mystery definitely goes. I don't like alpha, either (sorry). I mean it was fine last year, but I don't think it's something that needs rehashing. I think any popularity is because it's easy and people are already reading things that fit a lot of the time. Last year I didn't even try for it past the first 3? months and still managed to do a lot of them. I think mystery is pretty similar, it's an easy way to tick things off the list. I think they should be more of a challenge. I liked geo (even if I wandered off and haven't wound up doing many of them).

We voted to change things up each time (aside of random, because duh, lol), and I think that's the way to go. I also think picking a single genre is not a way to go. It ought to be something with variety. Otherwise anyone who isn't a big fan of that genre is out, not for a month, but the entire year. Crappy.

History (which includes fic, provided it's part of the story and not just a setting, and bios) is super broad, a good option. Maybe classics could be one. I'm not especially fond of them but possibly short stories could be a thing. Or maybe something that's more random, a theme with a word for each month, where some aspect of the title or content would need to tie in somehow (kind of like the randomCAT only, planned out); such as "sins & virtues," where each month would be one of them and (e.g. right now I'm reading Moll Flanders, it'd be a shoe-in for greed or pride). But that's just one example, the "theme" could be anything at all. Something like this would be a more simple one, because there's always creative ways to consider that things fit, which is part of the fun.

Oh, one thing I wanted to bring up-- I like the topic-per-month challenges, however, I hate having to plan to read things in specific months. It's not how I work. And sometimes it's checked out of the library, or a group read can only work out in a different month, or whatever. And then, even though you're reading something that qualifies, it doesn't count. I know the point is just for fun and it's not like it matters, but still, missing out when you're reading it is sucky.
What if, for at least one of them, we had the list of 12 things, but not assigned to one particular month, where we just read them when it works out for us, and try to cover all 12 according to our own timetable? All 12 threads could be started in January, and a list made somewhere easily accessible with the links to those threads, so they wouldn't get lost during the year and anyone could go toss out what they've been reading for the particular one with ease. Opinions?

19 - LibraryCin - Sorry I wasn't more clear. What I'm wondering about is how everyone is going to structure their categories. For example, in 2008, most of us read 8 books in 8 categories, and in 2009 we read 9 books in 9 categories. But now the year doesn't align so well with that strategy, unless someone wants to read 15 books in 15 different categories. Not me! Just wondering what everyone plans to do in 2015.

>22 Nickelini: A few years ago there was a big discussion that resulted in this forum's name being changed from the 10 in 10 (or 15 in 15) Challenge, to the Category Challenge, to allow everyone to adjust the number of categories and books in each category to best suit themselves. I've been doing ten categories with ten books in each every year since.

And more than a few here are able to do 15 in 15! It's when we get to, say, 2020 that we get into serious trouble.

I do the number of categories for the year (so, unless I run into trouble trying to sort them, next year will have 15), but the number of books is is more up in the air, just a min. for each category.

>21 .Monkey.: I like the idea of having at least one of the challenges not tied to specific months.

Maybe we could do something with the number 15 - books published in 2015, books published in 1915, authors born in 1915, books published 15 years ago (i.e., 2000), books published in the last 15 months, etc.

>21 .Monkey.:, >25 sturlington: Several people have been using a book bingo from one of the publishers (maybe Random House?) this year. Maybe we could have a BingoCAT and design our own bingo card. It wouldn't need to be tied to specific months. You could choose whether to just complete a single column or row or try to fill the card.

I decided that my goal for the year would be 100 books, so I divided my 14 categories into 100 and decided that I would aim for 7 in each category. I liked all he CAT's and would participate in all of them if they were continued next year. My favorite was the GeoCAT. I'm also wiling to host one month next year.

I wouldn't be so crazy about publishing dates as a thing, personally. I'd skip it if that were chosen.

By "design our own" you mean as a group, select what each of the squares would be? I'd be down with that.

>26 cbl_tn: I kind of love the idea of a BingoCAT! As you say, it would be a way to avoid tying specific themes to specific months. Plus it would lend itself to more variety than a CAT focusing on a specific genre.

>28 .Monkey.: Yes, the group would somehow select each square. We'd have to decide whether we want to vote on each square or designate a different person to pick a category/theme for each square. Or maybe let everyone who wants to suggest a category, then have someone write the categories in a random order on numbered slips of paper and let others pick numbers (without knowing what category goes with that number) to determine what goes in each square.

I like the BingoCAT idea!

I really like the bingoCAT idea. I personally find the AlphaKIT helpful so I'll do my own version or do an unofficial one for others if they want it again.

A HistoricalCAT sounds cool, so long as it includes fiction. As would a GenreCAT using different genres every month.

Loving the BingoCAT idea as well--very creative!

Well my own take on it is that historical includes fiction so long as it's more than simply a backdrop.

I personally don't like the idea of genres. I read plenty of them, it's not that I'm against genre fic itself, but I don't know, I think either people read specific ones or they don't, and if they do, then it's not a challenge, they're reading it anyway, and if they don't, they'll just sit that month out, so, I just don't see it as a fun challenging thing to do for a group.

If categories got numbers to randomly pick, a random generator should be used to pick them. I think I'd prefer a vote, but, first we'd have to see how many were suggested, nominations limited to one per person to keep it from being crazy. Bingo cards have a bunch of squares, so who knows, maybe we wouldn't even have too many not make it on.

>22 Nickelini: - Good question! Right now I am planning my 2015 to include three categories with a minimum of 15 books read in each category as it is an easy mathematical variation on the theme.

I participate in the Random Cat as a way to challenge myself and the Alpha Kit as a way to clear TBR books from my shelf. Even if it weren't an official CAT or KIT I would still do my own personal Alpha challenge.

Other than that, I'm fairly flexible and try to work the challenges into my categories if they interest me. This year I participated in the Mystery challenge since I'm a fan of mysteries but wouldn't be heartbroken to see it go away next year. Did not participate in the Geo challenge as that was too much of a stretch for me and I had enough other books to get through.

Like the idea of the Bingo challenge. It would be fun to have some sort of pick a book for another member challenge, but would also be a headache to try and organize I fear.

I am definitely going to have to add a CATs (and group reads) category to my challenge next year! Whatever form the CATs take is fine with me.

>22 Nickelini: Oops, sorry!!! Good point. I am generally able to do 12x12, personally (or come close to it). Last year I did try a 13x13, but wasn't able to finish it (I knew I wouldn't). This year, I set up a 12x12 to start and later added a 13th category of "Overflow" for anything that didn't fit in the other categories. I suppose I'm not really aiming for a number there, but there aren't going to be very many for that one, anyway.

BingoCAT might be fun.

There is a list on LT with the top ???? tags, yes? All those tags could be put in a randomizer (http://www.random.org/lists/) and placed in order on the bingo card, starting with B and go down, then I and go down.

(That is, the top 25 from the randomizer would fill the squares.)

I can just see trying to come up with a consensus for 25 squares a bit... interesting! :-)

We could set it up like a TIOLI challenge where the first 25 people get to specify a "square".

what we liked and disliked about this year's CATs? The categories were fine but I think they should change every year. I regret that I didn't participate in the awards CAT last year and hope that one will return. Mystery cat was the easiest. Geo CAT was good bur my reading didn't seem to coincide very well with the current location and Random CAT was the most difficult. Some months I didn't do very well. I think 3 is enough and works well for the CATtricks.

Did you use them to stretch your reading or more as a way of choosing which book from your TBR to read next? Mostly tried to stick to my TBR and also tried to make them work with other challenges and group reads.

Did you have a category for one or more of the CATs in your own challenge? No, but next year I hope to so so.

Did the CATs change what you read, and was that good or bad? Yes, some times. It was good, usually.

What did you think of hosting a month, if you did so? I didn't and it looks to be too difficult for me.

Would you be willing to host a month next year? See above

first can we all discuss what we liked and disliked about this year's CATs?

1. One of the things that I didn't like about the CATs was that there were months when it was really impossible to get a CATtrick because the MYSTERYCAT and GEOCAT were set in difference areas. If we keep the GEOCAT (which I would love to see happen) I would like to see the placement of the months to consider the other CATs as well in working toward a CATtrick. (does that make sense?)
2. I think 3 is a good number but I think that the Alpha Kit was better than an AlphaCAT.
3. I loved the GEOCAT because it really did make me stretch my reading. Normally, the majority of what I read is set in the USA or Great Britain. With the GEOCAT I have read books that were set in the Polar Regions, the Atlantic Ocean, Egypt, India and I am planning to visit South America, Australia, and Ethiopia later this year.
4. Loved the GastroKIT and wouldn't mind having as a CAT in 2015

Did you use them to stretch your reading or more as a way of choosing which book from your TBR to read next?
Because I was really interested in participating in the MYSTERYCAT and GEOCAT, I did stretch my reading to do so.

Did you have a category for one or more of the CATs in your own challenge?
The theme of my Category Challenge was TV networks and one of my Categories was the Travel Channel which was designated to take GEOCATs as well as other books for my US state Challenge and European Challenge.

Did the CATs change what you read, and was that good or bad? Yes, because I was able to read books that fit some of my multi year challenges

What did you think of hosting a month, if you did so? Would you be willing to host a month next year? I hosted a month for both the GEOCAT and MYSTERYCAT and doing that, getting prepared for "my" month just made it more interesting for me. I highly recommend that part of the participation.

as for suggestion for next year, I like the idea of a BINGOCAT in place of the RANDOMCAT.

I would also like to see us consider an AUTHORCAT where we could possible get LT Authors to participate. Possible combine with the Alphas and do an Alpha Author.

I have been working on a history challenge , so a HISTORYCAT wouldn't hurt my feelings but would we be pick an historical event or historical era?

I'm not sure I understand how a BIOCAT would work - we all read the same person?

As for my Category Challenge will be structured next year - I'm considering either a pyramid (120 ttl) or a halfer+ (each category has either 7 or 8 books =112 books). I'm still working on my theme.

I'll be watching and waiting for more suggestions and the voting!

335 - Lkernagh: Right now I am planning my 2015 to include three categories with a minimum of 15 books read in each category as it is an easy mathematical variation on the theme.

That's not a bad plan--I may just do that. I'd have to make the categories super broad though--15 books in any one theme is a lot.

I've been doing the GeoCAT and the GastroKIT

I have used the CATs to broaden my reading, although I'm still missing April GeoCAT.

I wish there had been discussion of the GastroKIT categories, as it is rather US-centric. I'm probably going to end up using two wild cards.

GenreCATs are a problem, as mentioned above, because people either read the genre or not. I basically don't read mysteries.

I did RandomCAT last year, but this year the categories haven't appealed to me, so I haven't.

I would strongly object to a "first N people get to choose" option for bingo, or anything else ever. That's not remotely fair, we have people in all different time zones around the world, people work, have other things going on, no, definitely do not not not like that. If there's too many suggested then they get random numbers and a number generator is used, either that or voting is the only fair way.

I wouldn't be in favor of authors. Aside of it being too promotional-like, it's also way too restrictive. If things are so tight, it just means few people will wind up doing it. The broader something is able to be, the more people will manage to work it in somehow.

As for bios, each month having some focus, I'd think. Time periods (could do a thing like the geo focus, e.g. "1900-1950, focus: WWII," "1800-1850, focus: Napoleon's reign"), regions of the world, significant periods in history...

This is my first year in the challenge and I just wanted to push myself to read more from my TBR. In that respect it is a success already.
The CATs are an unexpected bonus, I haven't always found the time, but they have stretched my reading into areas long neglected or entirely new.
I don't have any strong preferences there, I'll be happy to go along with the majority vote and hope to explore more new things.

I have been enjoying the CAT challenges the past two years. I use them both to push myself to explore new authors/books and to pick things off my TBR shelf. I've participated in and liked very much the MysteryCAT, GeoCAT and AwardsCAT. I've also done the RandomCAT, but not every month.

I haven't participated in the AlphaCAT or GastroCAT but I certainly don't mind keeping them as KITs. Indeed, I don't mind if there are any number of KITs, as long as the maintainers are happy to keep them going. I see these as no different from group reads, while the CATs require a bit more commitment from all of us collectively.

I like having 3 CATS, and my preferred approach would be to have one in each of these three categories:
1. A fun one with lots of variety, to help us pick things off our TBR pile: RandomCAT or BingoCAT, or some other variation.
2. An "educational" one that encourages us to try things outside our comfort zone or explore ideas/themes: GeoCAT, HistoryCAT, BiographyCAT, etc.
3. A genre CAT, which might not appeal to everyone, but has enough participants to keep it going: e.g. MysteryCAT, SFFCAT, or other.

I think it will be hard to find a selection of CATs that appeals to everyone. If most people find at least 2 of the 3 CATs interesting enough that they'll participate some of the months, I'd say that's pretty good. By rotating the topics every year (and maybe coming back to the popular ones more frequently), we should be able to cover most people's interests.

My personal preferences for next year would be BingoCAT, HistoryCAT and SFFCAT, but I'll most likely join in whatever is chosen. If people think SFFCAT is too narrow, I'd suggest "SpeculativeCAT" to cover speculative fiction, which could include apocalyptic/dystopian literature, alternative history and magical realism. That would encompass a large number of authors (e.g. Margaret Atwood, David Mitchelll, Kazuo Ishiguro, Diana Gabaldon) whom people don't normally think of as SFF authors.

I would be happy to host a month or two again. Also, I want to express my gratitude to the organizers! You've been doing a great job so far this year!

I use the CATS both to stretch my reading and also to help clear my TBR if I can. I think 3 is a good number to have. For readers who are slower readers ( or read books with LOTS of pages), it's not too many and if you're a faster reader, you could read multiple books in a CAT if you want.

I like the idea of a BINGO card for a year-long CAT but wonder if, instead of going through all the discussion of finding topics for each square, we couldn't just use the BINGO card for next year if another one is put out by whoever did it this year?

>48 dudes22: That's a great idea. The Bingo card was offered by Random House of Canada, and this is the second year they've done it. Perhaps one of us could ask them, closer to the end of the year, whether they intend to publish one again.

Bah I dislike the idea of using a premade publisher one. These are supposed to be group things, not publisher-sponsored, and, while it might end up the same given random suggestions by people here, I've found around half the items on the publisher ones don't appeal/are not do-able for me. If we go that route I may make a half-hearted attempt at it just because, but I doubt I'd really care much to do it.

>50 .Monkey.: I agree. I didn't find the Random House card very compelling. While a couple of the topics were creative--a forgotten classic, a book with non-human characters--most were bland or way too broad. The RandomCAT categories so far have been more interesting and creative, I think. I'd also like to see Bingo categories that are actually categories, rather than items that would better belong in a TIOLI challenge, such as "a book with a blue cover".

Here's the link to the Random House card if anyone wants to refer to it: http://www.retreatbyrandomhouse.ca/2014/01/reading-bingo-challenge-2014/

>50 .Monkey.: OK, fair enough. That's a good point. However, the one advantage I see with the one proposed by the publisher is that it was (presumably) carefully thought out, so that the categories did not overlap too much and had enough coverage. If we did our own bingo card, I'd prefer that ideas for topics were collected from everyone but then compiled by one person or a small group. If we just took the 25 topics with the most votes, we may get an uninspiring collection.

Did you use them to stretch your reading or more as a way of choosing which book from your TBR g
to read next? stretch my reading - I used the CATs to help plan my reading for the year

Did you have a category for one or more of the CATs in your own challenge? yes "Thriller" for MysteryCAT and "Around the World for GeoCAT

Did the CATs change what you read, and was that good or bad? yes - mostly good

What did you think of hosting a month, if you did so? Would you be willing to host a month next year? I hosted the RandomCAT at the last minute when the planned host had a family emergency. I enjoyed doig it and would d it again.

>52 mathgirl40: I don't think they took any special thought. As >51 sturlington: said, they were utterly random things, like "book with blue cover" "book that became a movie" "funny book" and the like. I'd imagine more that someone whipped it up in about 5 minutes.

I'm the opposite of a couple of other new people here: I didn't set up a category thread, but I've enjoyed participating in the three Cats this year

I mostly used them to read books on Planet TBR; but I've borrowed a handful from the library, too.

Based on what's been said here so far, it might be fairly easy to combine a HistoryCAT and a BiographyCAT. If every month gets a different historical era, then we could read (1) a novel set during that era, (2) a nonfiction book about the era, or (3) a biography of a person who was influential (or at least alive!) during that era.

I do think that a HistoryCAT should be able to include fiction as well as nonfiction...and I don't mind if the setting is only a "backdrop." For example, if one month's era is the 19th century, and I read a Regency romance novel, I think it should count. I understand that if the CATs are too broad, there's no challenge; but I would rather err on the side of inclusion.

I agree history & bio ought to simply go together, and that it should include all three. However I don't see how something simply taking place within a hundred-year time span is really inclusive of any kind of challenge. There has to be a line somewhere, these are meant to be challenges, after all. The point isn't to simply be able to pick up any title and find a way to weasel it into a category, but to seek out things to read that fit. If a category is history: 1800-1899, romance does not fit. Not unless it actually deals with some sort of historical plot points.

Let's not get side-tracked into worrying about the specifics of CATs we haven't decided anything about yet! (Although it is fun)

It's great hearing how the CATs have been used differently by everyone and I'm so pleased that so many participated this year. I'm also excited that those who hosted a month enjoyed themselves and are willing to do so again. I think it keeps the CATs fresh to have a new voice each month.

The Bingo idea is wonderful. i enjoyed watching several people filling them out on their threads this year. Don't worry about how to make it work. Do you think the Bingo card should be a CAT, or it's own thing? It could even be put up at the top of the forum page and have it's own following outside of the CATs, or be a CAT with unusual parameters. And as for coming up with the squares, we're good at that sort of thing. With 24 or 25 spaces, there are more than enough opportunities for everyone who wants to fill one in, time zones and everything. Last year, it took a good week for volunteers to fill in all the twelve spots in each CAT.

Should we try to better coordinate the CATs so as to make it easier to get CATtricks? Is the timing of the monthly CATs working for you (list at the beginning of the year of all themes, thread posted on or after the 15th of the previous month)? Should the RandomCAT remain? How can we make the CATs easy and non-threatening to new participants? How can we make them both a challenge to those who like challenge, but comfortable for those who want to participate using their TBRs or personal reading plans?

>56 christina_reads: >57 .Monkey.: One of the characteristics of the category challenge and the CATs has been that individual participants make these kinds of calls for themselves. For example, in last year's AlphaCAT, some of us chose to make our challenge more difficult by selecting books with titles that began with that letter, while others used any title word beginning with that letter, including "the". Some participants may find reading a regency romance or other historical romance challenging if they don't typically read romance or don't like history.

If we do a BingoCAT, I think it's a good candidate to replace the RandomCAT. I like the timing of the monthly CATs--gives me plenty of time to pick my reads.

Should we keep the same CATs or pick new ones?
I think new ones would be good with the exception of the RandomCAT. I think that can easily be yearly.

Should we stick with three CATs, or should we have more (or fewer)? I like 3 "official" CATS - Random plus 2 more. Any extra "KITS" are fine by me, but don't need to be part of the voting process.

Who will be in charge of them? We had plenty of volunteers last year and likely will again.

And how should we vote on these issues?
I think the voting process worked well last year as long as we leave the polls up for long enough for everyone who isn't on LT daily (horrors!) to have time to vote.

As far as how the CATs worked for me, I must admit that I didn't participate in many, even though at the beginning of the year I thought I would. I had the idea that the CATs would lead to a lot of discussion, more like a group read, but with such a wide variety of books eligible to fill each CAT, I didn't find that. Honestly, that is fine with me and now that I can approach it this year as a fun challenge and a way to pick what to read next, I'm excited about it. I will look for discussion in the group read threads and individuals threads instead of in the CAT threads.

I like the timing of how CAT threads are set up. Because the GeoCAT and MysteryCAT monthly themes were decided before the beginning of the year, that let advance planners have their fun and having the RandomCAT released a couple weeks ahead was a good compromise for spur of the moment readers and planners.

How can we make the CATs easy and non-threatening to new participants?
My suggestion here would be to have a thread linked on the group page on how to use the wiki pages. I am really inept at it and it definitely affected my participation. One of the neat things about the CATs is seeing what everyone is reading and how many people are participating and that is most easily seen on the wiki page. I think there are quite a few people like me, though, who haven't gotten comfortable with those yet.

>58 RidgewayGirl: I don't see why we should wait to get into specifics; knowing how they'd work is a big part of what would make someone vote, or not, for particular ones. Thinking a topic sounds interesting and voting for it, but then it turns out that would work an entirely different way than you'd want and would rather prefer something else, would kinda suck. I think before we vote on any topics we should have at least a basic idea how their challenge would go. The full details can be hashed out after, but we should have an idea.

Personally I think I'd like the bingo to be separate, it's not really what I was thinking when I said I wanted at least one of them to be timeless. I was just meaning a regular one, minus the monthly boundaries. I may be in the minority there, though, not sure.
Don't forget, there were 12 spots in each CAT, plus specific criteria for them to fall into, and volunteers to lead them. Bingo would just be any random thing, and no volunteers needed (or maybe just one overall one), a lot simpler. I doubt it would take long at all to fill those squares.
I also didn't mean that it should take the place of the randomCAT. I like the surprise themes each month, and it seems others do also.

I don't think they need coordinating. I seem to be a minority but I think these are challenges and it should take effort to try and manage CATtricks and the like. I don't think they are threatening, they're merely an extra that folks can take part in, or ignore. And I use mostly my TBR & plans, I think that's the challenge, trying to find things that work for you, that meet the requirements. I don't like the idea of being able to include practically anything, to me that just negates the entire point of it. If things start swinging more that way, I'll wind up just ignoring them and doing my own thing, because that just takes the fun right out when anything at all goes.

It seems to me that there are really two issues in this discussion: (1) How many CATs are we going to have? (And if we are doing Bingo, is that a CAT or its own separate thing?) And then (2) what kind of CATs should we have? If we can clarify our thoughts and come to a decision on issue #1, it will make our discussion of issue #2 easier. >58 RidgewayGirl: I think this is what you were getting at earlier!

So, speaking of issue #1 -- so far, it seems like most people are happy with three CATs, a random plus two more. And then perhaps Bingo could be its own thing -- just another fun addition to the group, like CATs were a few years ago. How do people feel about this?

So, speaking of issue #1 -- so far, it seems like most people are happy with three CATs, a random plus two more. And then perhaps Bingo could be its own thing -- just another fun addition to the group, like CATs were a few years ago. How do people feel about this?

I like this. RandomCAT, 2 other CATS that we'll vote on and Bingo on the side.

You're clearer than I was, Christina!

PM, the only thing that we can be sure of is that the end result will differ greatly than what we start with. It can be jarring, but it ends up being better. It helps to not get too invested in any one idea in the early stages. No one will get exactly what they envisioned. There will be tons of voting and discussion and the end result will be nothing like anyone's initial ideas, but better. But don't despair of the process yet!

Is three a good number for everyone? Especially given that there will be a few KITs as well as whatever group reads are set up?

Should Bingo be it's own thing? I think it sounds awesome, but difficult to squish into the CAT-mold. We can do it, of course, but do we want to?

And the RandomCAT. A staple of the CATs or is it time to say good-bye?

I like three CATs, and I like RandomCAT being one of them. I'm also in favor of Bingo as a non-CAT side project. However, despite my chattiness on this thread, I'm very open to whatever the group decides!

I'm in favor of three main CATs with Random being one of them.

I've become a big fan of the CATs (my favs have been last year's Award and this year's Geo) and have been able to read at least one book for each CAT so far this year. This has been a stretch in some areas, but also serves as an incentive to pick up a book from my TBR pile or list. Three CATs is about perfect, imo, and then it's nice having the KITs available if you're game for more at times.

I liked this idea >47 mathgirl40: for which a rough parameter of what CATs are voted on, an educational, a fun/random, and a genre. Although with a genre, I don't think it needs to be necessarily one genre for the entire year and for some genres a month isn't long enough. Maybe one genre per quarter with a more specific focus within the genre for the month? That would help for those times you're reading a book for a CAT and the month runs out.

Also, I hosted a Geo CAT this year and thought it was fun and very manageable. Would be willing to host again next year. And I'm interested in a Bingo for 2015 in whatever form it takes.

>63 christina_reads: I already answered in in my previous post: I agree with 3 CAT, one being random, bingo on the side. But then this brings back my question of what does everyone think of one of the CATs being non-month oriented?

>65 RidgewayGirl: I think pretty much every single post has said they like the randomCAT, I don't think we need to keep asking if it should stay or go, lol. And yes, I know things can & will change some, but again, basic plotting is good so we have an idea of what we're looking at.

>68 aliciamay: I'm not keen on trying to do all sorts of different time tables. Anyone is free to read whatever genres they're enjoying whenever they want to, however many they want to. You're not restricted to only reading something you like during its assigned month. ;)

Personally, if genre gets chosen, I'll be ignoring that one. I don't see the point in a challenge for something that people already read or will be ignoring because they don't read. I think challenges are meant to nudge us in different directions, so I'd really rather it be something more original than that.

The way the CATs are currently structured, they are tied to specific themes with monthly topics. Is this an important part of the CATs? Should it be scuttled? Why or why not?

PM, there is a lot of repetition and discussion. Give people time to find this thread and comment. There has been more that one instance in which the first people commenting all had the same opinion, but later participants had other ideas. We'll get to the actual voting eventually! Give people time to think of ideas and figure out how to word them. And no one is ever equally excited about all the CATs, and there are always CATs that are uninteresting to some. Remember that the slogan for the CATs is "CATs are optional." After all, our own personal thread/reading challenges are much more important -- CATs are just a way to get us talking and making our book choices more fun.

>69 .Monkey.: I don't think it's that simple, regarding genre reading. You suggest that people either read tons of books in a genre or ignore the genre altogether. I believe that many of the people who have been participating in MysteryCAT this year fall somewhere in between. I read a lot of mysteries but have read very little Noir, and this past month, I tried three new-to-me Noir authors because of the challenge. Also, there have been participants who don't normally read a lot of mystery but are using the MysteryCAT to learn more about the genre. I agree with you that challenges are meant to nudge us in different directions, but I'd argue that genre CATs do exactly that.

>70 RidgewayGirl: I like the monthly aspect of the CATs, but I also agree with >68 aliciamay: that we don't have to do one genre for the entire year. Mystery and SFF might include enough subgenres and attract enough participants to cover the year, but some other genres might not. I would think it would be fun to do, say, 6 months of horror followed by 6 months of romance, or even alternating months. :) However, I'm not stuck on the idea of a genre CAT and would be OK if an alternative challenge were chosen.

Three official CATS, with Bingo on the side, sounds good to me!

Personally, if genre gets chosen, I'll be ignoring that one. I don't see the point in a challenge for something that people already read or will be ignoring because they don't read. I think challenges are meant to nudge us in different directions, so I'd really rather it be something more original than that.

I found in the MysteryCat that it is actually challenging sometimes to me. I love mysteries, but I stick to several basic kinds. For instance, last month was noir - I've never read noir and I really didn't think I'd like it. Turns out, there was one book on my TBR stack that qualified as noir and I loved it. Never would've known that if I hadn't joined the MysteryCAT. It does nudge people in new directions, just by exploring a genre.

That's not to say there should be a new genre CAT next year, but it's something to keep in mind. Even genre readers get pushed outside their comfort zone in a genre CAT. Actually, now that I think about it, genre CATs would make perfect KITs.

>69 .Monkey.: Well, the Bingo would be non-month-oriented, if we decide to do that. Otherwise, I'm having trouble imagining how a non-month-oriented CAT would be organized. Would we just pick 12 different topics for the CAT, then post all 12 threads at the beginning of the year?

I've been avoiding weighing in because I have a really bad record of following through on this challenge, but I always get so excited during the planning stages, so what the heck:

I used the GeoCAT to help me plan my reading for the year, and actually stuck with the plan through January and February. While it didn't take long for my reading to diverge from schedule, I did continue to read some of my planned GeoCAT books in other months, and I found it really helpful at the beginning of the year to gather all my planned GeoCAT TBRs in one place. That made me more likely to finally pick them up and get through them even later on.

Basically I'm happy with the ideas suggested here so far: one more serious CAT like history—though I'd have absolutely no problem with people including historical romances there—, one lighter CAT like speculative fiction, and one random CAT. I also love the idea of the bingo.

So, just a couple of points to add: I don't think a genre CAT is necessarily too easy or too exclusive, especially if it's something broad like speculative fiction. People who read fantasy don't necessarily even read science fiction, and there are plenty of potential sub-genres that could include more "literary" works: Marquez in magical realism, Atwood in dystopia/post-apocalyptic, Beowulf or the Icelandic sagas in legends, etc.

>69 .Monkey.: I'd stick with the month oriented CATS (with the addition of non-month-oriented bingo), for the same reason you gave yourself:

Anyone is free to read whatever genres they're enjoying whenever they want to, however many they want to. You're not restricted to only reading something you like during its assigned month. ;)

Having a recommended time to read in a specific sub-category encourages discussion and group reads, but no one is obligated to follow the timetable.

>73 christina_reads: That was my notion, yeah. Each gets a thread started, and either a thread or wiki can be made with the list of them all (links, obviously), so people have no problem locating the thread for whichever one they're reading for at the moment. I have no idea if it would go over well, of course, but it seems like it could work, anyway.
I just get frustrated when I have books that match things we're doing but am unable to read them at the "required" time, thereby not being able to complete the challenge (yes, I know it's just optional for fun, but I like doing it, we all do, obviously! :P), partake of the discussion (yeah, you can go dredging up a dead thread later, but conversation rarely sparks back up, and whatnot), etc. It's one thing to choose to skip one for whatever reason, but it just is annoying to have something that fits but not be able to join in.

>72 Samantha_kathy: Yeah, of course there can be times, here and there, where someone branches out slightly. But we've all got our own categories to read from as it is, so I really don't think most people go out of their way to read a genre they're not already interested in, especially when they've already got their own list of things they're doing. Maybe it's less common than I'm picturing, but I know I've seen a lot of comments to that extent last year and several in this thread also. I just think it'd be better to choose something more original. Especially since genres have already been done this year with mystery and last year with the genre awards. Why not something different?

ETA
>74 _Zoe_: Yeah but that comment was in relation to extending the time period so people could read more of a certain thing because they liked it so much. Not about reading randomly completely off the time-table. It was about "Feb is mystery month, wow I'm loving these, I want to read more mysteries, let's have March cover them too!" as opposed to "I have a mystery I want to read but I'm unable to read it until July when everyone is long done with the mystery thread, sucky."

>75 .Monkey.: But we've all got our own categories to read from as it is, so I really don't think most people go out of their way to read a genre they're not already interested in, especially when they've already got their own list of things they're doing.

Can you give some examples of what you think would be appropriate CATs? I'm getting confused because I thought you were arguing earlier that the categories should be strict and challenging, not allowing for romances in the relevant historical period, etc. Or was that someone else?

I didn't say romances couldn't be allowed, I said anything could so long as it had a historical aspect and not just "oh this love story happens in 1852." I wouldn't (didn't) say "strict" >_> just that if you stretch a category so thin that practically anything can fit in it, what's the point of the category? There has to be a line somewhere. I think part of the fun with the RandomCAT is seeing how people can finagle their reads into it somehow, that's all well & good, but there's still an effort to make it truly fit somehow.

>77 .Monkey.: Ah, okay, so I think we're mostly on the same page after all. It's possible that what I thought was disagreement about the general concept was actually just a difference in how we're defining history in particular. I would say that events of daily life taking place in a particular time period are just as much history as major events.

I also don't think a genre category necessarily excludes people who don't regularly read that genre, as long as some effort is made to choose sub-categories that allow for cross-over.

Well, the way it works, if someone wants to include something, it's included. It's an open, for-fun challenge, there's no moderators going through the list that can go "Oh no, this book doesn't (have/do) ___, it can't count here!" or whatever, so it really makes no difference in the end. But personally I don't agree with calling something history just because the author says the date it's happening was Such&So. If the story doesn't actually deal with historical things, e.g. is merely a character-driven romance where the guy just happens to live in a castle, that's not history, it's just backdrop and I would object to it being labeled otherwise. But anyone can call any book whatever they want, so, what I'd object to really makes no difference.

I like the idea of a HistoryCAT, but I'm not sure what is meant. Do we mean historical periods (e.g. the Renaissance)? It might be tricky to divide up the ages, as such categories tend to be associated with certain cultures.

Or do we mean time periods (e.g. pre-1000, 15th century, 1800-1850, etc.)? If so, maybe CenturyCAT, TimeCAT, or something along those lines would be a better name. In that case, any book written in that time period, set in that period, or about people/events in that period would fit the category.

>75 .Monkey.: OK, gotcha. I would be fine with having the CATs (except for the RandomCAT, of course!) be non-month-specific, meaning that we could vote on a number of topics for each CAT, then post all the threads at the beginning of the year. That way we won't run into the "right book, wrong time" problem that you've mentioned.

On the other hand, though, isn't part of the fun of the CATs that we're all reading the same topics at the same time? I worry that if we don't make the topics month-specific, discussion will be really unfocused and sparse. For example, this year some of us are doing a Vorkosigan group read, but we're all reading different books within the series at different times. And from what I can tell, there's not a lot of discussion in that group read (especially regarding the later volumes of the series, which seem to have fewer readers). So I do wonder how the discussion will be affected (or maybe even reduced) if we get rid of the month-specificity.

TL;DR -- I think the idea of non-month-specific CATs is worth considering, but there are definitely pros and cons. What does everyone else think?

Yeah, that's why I asked, I was curious if others would be interested also and if so, to see everyone's thoughts on it. :)
And I was thinking just for one of them, too, to see how it'd go and to not change things up that much and all.

I could see where there could be trouble with discussion. But maybe having a volunteer "in charge" of a few threads each, to just bump them every few weeks, with some prompting questions and whatever, to try and keep interest alive and conversation going, could work to offset that.

My experience with non-time-specific challenges/group reads is that there's lots of discussion in January, then it fizzles out pretty quickly. That happened last year with a year-long author read, and it's happened this year with a World War I thread in the 75 Books Challenge. I think the Sandman group read last year might have been an exception rather than the rule. I didn't participate, but I kept seeing mentions on various individual challenge threads and it seemed like there were several who were reading about one per month throughout the year. I think if we dropped monthly themes for one or more CATs, it just might kill them.

Took me awhile to catch up, and I'm not sure I read everything closely. I'm so behind on everything this year. I've been participating in the 3 main CATs if I have something to fit, but I haven't been going out of my way to find something. I have not participated in the KITs much except that I may have done a GastroKit in Jan or Feb. I actually haven't been bothering to keep up with them. As someone else said, more than 3 is just too many to keep up with, especially if you are participating in other challenges such as the American Author Challenge.

I haven't enjoyed the MysteryCAT as much as I had expected since that's my "go to" genre. I have enjoyed the GeoCAT although I didn't have anything for the polar regions; however, I only read 4 books that month too, so I might have found something if I'd had more time.

I, however, like the idea of mixing things up and finding new challenges. Since I know that we'll probably end up voting on the slate of prospects, I'm going to just wait to vote. If my plate is as full in 2015 as it has been in 2014, and I fully expect it to be as full or even more so, I probably will have limited involvement in the CATs simply because my reading numbers will be low. The more books I read, the more chances I have to fill those spots. When my reading is off in numbers as it has been this summer, then I know that I'm not going to be able to have something for every challenge as much as I would like to participate.

I like the idea of 3 CATs, one of which could be Random, and a separate Bingo CAT. I don't want to make it too easy to get CATtricks, but I also don't want to make them impossible as happened some months this year.

Three CATs seems to me be the perfect number and I like the idea of BINGO (why not a DOG?) We could all suggest something to put on a card and then have one person rearrange them each month?


Someone above mentioned maybe a quarterly CAT or KIT, that would be good, IMHO for genres because we could have a genre that was smaller like Classics or Young Adult or Horror or Fantasy that wouldn't necessarily command an entire year. Four genres taken care of in 1 year. Then readers could take those book fatties and read them through the quarter.

ETA -FYI the Reading through Time group has an entire list of Time periods that might be used for a History CAT. It runs from B.C. to Post 9/11.

http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/Reading_Through_Time_Challenge

I loved the GeoCAT and MysteryCAT this year. The other day I realized that last year we seemed to agree that we would not repeat CATs from one year to the next and I was sad. I want to do them again - especially GeoCAT.

I don't like RandomCAT - I completely ignored it this year, and paid only scant attention to it last year. I'd like to see something a little different replace it for next year. However, I realize that I am definitely the minority opinion on that subject, so fine, then, keep your RandomCAT if you must. Just make sure I get something good on the other two!

I'm one of the long-term planners that someone referred to earlier. After the MysteryCAT and GeoCAT were set up last year, I went through my wishlist and identified a book that would fit each month for each CAT. I put them on hold at the library right then, and then suspended the holds until just before the appropriate month. (I realize that many libraries don't have such a wonderful feature. I feel sorry for you.) So every month I have books showing up like magic and it's great fun remembering why I ordered them. So far, I've participated in every month of MysteryCAT and GeoCAT, although there were few times when I finished late, and once I finished early. I still posted in the thread and on the wiki and proudly announced my achievement.

I have a GeoCAT category in my challenge, and another for general mysteries that many of the MysteryCAT books have showed up in. Even though every book I've read has come from my wishlist, most are not books that I would picked up this year had it not been for the CATs. I love mysteries, but I've read several sub-genres that I don't ordinarily read, just because they fit the theme that month (e.g., classics, hard-boiled, cozies). So far, there hasn't been a single dud.

I hosted one month in each CAT and thought it was fun and easy and would be willing to do it again. No one should be reluctant to volunteer.

The bingo idea is interesting, and I'm still mulling that one over in my mind. I think I'd be opposed to the idea of a non month specific CAT. That would spoil too much of my fun. (How would I know when to have those books show up?) I want the GeoCAT again. I'd be willing to try the SpeculativeCAT, as long as the subgenres are varied and well defined - it would definitely be a stretch for me. HistoryCAT would also be appealing to me. Hey, how about a GeoCAT?

>86 cyderry: Once upon a time I made a catalog of history, outlined by location, theme, time period, topic, theory, pretty muchly time sliced and diced any way you'd want it. I need to find where I've put it, but if we go with a historyCAT of some sort, I'm quite willing to share.

Maybe we could do a GEOKIT With some of the same locales but different focuses?

#88 ooo - that sounds interesting

#89 Maybe. Let's see how the voting goes first. I'm still hoping for an official CAT.

I love the discussion here! I won't weigh in on CATs and KITs as I like to just dip in and out of them when the monthly topic catches my fancy.

I will weigh in on the Bingo discussion. The Bingo should be a year-long stand alone piece separate from the monthly CATs and KITs. Either we use a publisher's Bingo card, or have someone come up with a Bingo card and just run with it. As hookey as some of the Bingo squares may appear to be on the current Random House Bingo card, there is enough variety to push every reader a little bit outside of their usual reading. Besides, it is going to take me most of this year just to complete the current Bingo card, unless I want to be completely flippant about it. ;-)

That is my two cents. Discuss away.

>42 cyderry: What I was thinking for the BioCAT was that a different place or era (or event, or any other suggestion...) could be chosen (to keep it broad enough... personally, I think the CATs should be fairly broad) each month. Then, people could choose someone from that era or place or event to read about.

>47 mathgirl40: I like having 3 CATS, and my preferred approach would be to have one in each of these three categories:
1. A fun one with lots of variety, to help us pick things off our TBR pile: RandomCAT or BingoCAT, or some other variation.
2. An "educational" one that encourages us to try things outside our comfort zone or explore ideas/themes: GeoCAT, HistoryCAT, BiographyCAT, etc.
3. A genre CAT, which might not appeal to everyone, but has enough participants to keep it going: e.g. MysteryCAT, SFFCAT, or other.

I like this idea!

Discussion re: the BingoCAT. I'll mention again my idea of using the top however-many tags are listed on this site and putting them in a randomizer. The top 25 could be entered into the Bingo card.

(Randomizer site: http://www.random.org/lists/)

I would be happy to take the time to do this.

That would probably be much faster than trying to discuss each of 25 options to put on the card!

And as I read more of the replies, I think I've figured out why the GastoKIT didn't appeal to me as much as I originally thought it would. I think because it's more specific. Personally, I like the CATs to be fairly broad.

>58 RidgewayGirl:. I think the Bingo could be its own thing, and we could have three CATs separate from it.

Better coordinate the CATs? I read pretty fast, so I do ok even if they aren't, but I bet that might appeal to a few more people if they were better coordinated (but that makes it a little trickier for those organizing it, doesn't it? Especially if it's someone different organizing each one?).

Timing worked well for me, even without knowing the RandomCAT till later. I only start planning my reading in the last week or two of the previous month, anyway.

>64 japaul22: I like this. RandomCAT, 2 other CATS that we'll vote on and Bingo on the side.

With all the extra discussion, this is what I'd lean towards, too

>70 RidgewayGirl:. The way the CATs are currently structured, they are tied to specific themes with monthly topics. Is this an important part of the CATs? Should it be scuttled? Why or why not?

I like it this way. I like the monthly topics. Would it be awful if someone was allowed to post what they read for a CAT, even if it fell outside the month, though? I mean, if the majority of us stuck to the month, but if someone missed one and wanted to come back to it later, could they not just post later?

I think with genres, as long as the main one is broad (and I think it would have to be), you get more specific for each month, and those can/do vary.

With MysteryCAT this year, I don't read a lot of mysteries, but I read some, and it got me to focus on different types (and even learn what some of those types are!).

>98 LibraryCin: That already happens. And sometimes people cannot wait and post a book they've read as soon as a thread opens, even though the month in question hasn't begun.

>88 casvelyn:. Wow, that sounds perfect for planning a HistoryCAT (if that's one that's decided on)!

>100 RidgewayGirl: ok, thanks! I guess my opinion, especially then, is that having it month to month is fine. Most of my challenges go per month, so I guess that's what I'm used to.

>94 LibraryCin: To reply to my own post, I guess I'm just not understanding how populating the Bingo card would go if everyone is picking something. I'm just seeing chaos! ;-)

I would hate the idea of popular tags for the bingo, and frankly, would probably avoid it if that were how it wound up going.

Yes, you can go back and post on any thread, of course, but any discussion has already taken place, and in general, trying to restart a dead thread simply doesn't work. (ETA-- And if you're reading something in Feb that is "assigned" for Dec there's no thread to post in, and trying to recall what points you wanted to bring up many months later is not necessarily the easiest thing.) If people aren't interested in a non-monthly thing, so be it, anyone who reads out of turn will just have to be missing out on that month's chatter. It will just mean I continue to not be able to participate in a bunch of them. ...Maybe I will just ignore the months on my own thread in the post where I mark down the CATs and simply list the topics w/o the months and mark them completed if I read something that fits, no matter when. I don't like the exclusionary nature of the monthly set-up, so I will just do it my own way in my thread, then, and people can discuss the CAT aspects of them with me there if they want. I suppose that'll do.

I like that CATs being a month long. I do keep a separate list of the year long CATs in my own thread where I can post late if I want. I am a slower reader.

BINGO, there is a site that is not publisher related that generates cards (new) every time you go there. If you search BOTNS Bingo you will find it. I don't think we should do the random house one because another group already does that one.

I did 2 Bingo cards this year. Some of the squares are OK, but some would need to be changed to make it a real challenge. Here are my thoughts on how it would need to be modified:

A Book With More Than 500 Pages - OK, but make it more it more specific (e.g. Historical Fiction)
A Forgotten Classic -OK, perhaps add a time period
A Book that Became a Movie - OK
A Book Published This Year -OK
A Book With a Number in the Title -OK

A Book Written by Someone Under Thirty - OK (this was difficult!)
A Book With Non-Human Characters - ??
A Funny Book- Make more specific
A Book by a Female Author - change to Bailey Award winner (2000 - 2014)
A Book With a Mystery - change to Edgar award winner (specific years)

A Book With a One Word Title - Make more specific
A Book of Short Stories - Make more specific
A Book set on a Different Continent - Make more specific
A Book of Non-Fiction - Make more specific

The First Book by a Favorite Author - OK
A Book you Heard About Online - change to a book recommended in Zeitgeist
A Best-Selling Book - Make more specific
A Book Based on a True Story - Make more specific
A Book at the Bottom of Your To-Read Pile OK

A Book Your Friend Loves - Change to ??
A Book That Scares You - Change to ??
A Book That is more than 10 Years Old - Make more specific
The Second Book in a Series - Make more specific
A Book With a Blue Cover - Change to ??

Let's give everyone a few more days to find this thread and start the voting this weekend on things like whether Bingo should be a CAT or not, keeping RandomCAT, the number of CATs, stuff like that.

If you know of someone who has participated in this year's CATs, but who hasn't posted here, could you let them know this discussion is going on? And if you've been happily lurking, could you just check in with an, "I'm here and I'll let you know what I think when voting starts," type message?

>106 RidgewayGirl: I think August is generally when someone has been starting next year's challenge group. For instance, this group (2014 challenge) was created 23 August 2013. Should we wait until the 2015 group has been created and carry on the discussion and voting on the 2015 CATs in the 2015 group? That way the discussion threads will be findable if someone searches within the group.

Good idea, Carrie. And as soon as we determine which CATs we want, we'll open a thread in the 2015 Challenge Group for each of them.

You lot have certainly been discussing wildly while I've been away! Geez. I feel almost out of breath from catching up.

Alright. So. New CATs.
I'm with the majority on that I really like RandomCAT and want it to stay. I LOVE the idea of a bingo card (CAT Bingo?) . I could probably make a bingo card if we decide to make out own. It'd be fun, and a way for me to contribute a little as I don't feel comfortable hosting a month/CAT.

I really liked the idea of a GeoCAT that we have this year but haven't participated much because I haven't been reading much. The MysteryCAT I haven't been into at all as I don't read very many mysteries (maybe one or two per year). I wouldn't like another year of GenreCAT but a quarterly genre might be okay.

I'm going to read through the thread again and catch up with what everyone's been saying.

Don't you all remember or haven't you heard of the song...

The farmer had a DOG and BINGO was name. B I N G O.....B I N G O. and BINGO was his name-o.

>109 PawsforThought: Yay for another anti-genre vote and for confirming my opinions regarding it!! lol.

>110 cyderry: So next year we can have CATs and Dogs!

Yay! This dog-lover has been feeling left out....

>110 cyderry: & >112 cbl_tn: No! No dogs here! Nu-uh! Only cats.

>104 Kristelh: and others interested in a non-Random-House-CN bingo card, the site that Books on the Nightstand used to generate their bingo cards is called "bullshitbingo.com." You enter in 25 phrases and then the site's algorithm generates random cards. We can take the previous suggestion of using the top 25 tags and using them as the entries.

FWIW, considering that I didn't participate in any of the CATS this year, I'm in favor of 3 CATs, 2 KITs and 1 Bingo Card (and yes, I think the dog graphic is cute!) As for the CATs themselves, I would be interested in another, different genre cat (SFF, History... I'm a fairly eclectic reader so I'm very open on this count,) and a slightly different GEOcat (maybe one focused on countries bordering 12 different bodies of water all over the world?) I like the monthly schedule.

One of the reasons I didn't join in on the CATs was that I really couldn't figure what was going on! I originally thought it was a monthly group discussion; but it looks like a matter of doing a wiki-edit on the CAT page and then posting threads? Perhaps for others who are also new or for whom the CAT thing is unfamiliar, a FAQ or informative post would help.

>115 Tanya-dogearedcopy: I think that's supposed to be bullshitbingo.net and not .com The .com one is an advert for, ehm, adult things.

I think we'll need to use something other than the top 25 tags for the bingo cards if we do it. Here are the top 10:

fiction
non-fiction
fantasy
history
to-read
science fiction
mystery
read
biography
poetry

The next fifteen are very similar. Not a very inspiring list.

Right, top-used tags are going to be atrocious; like I said, not a good plan. I don't think tags should really come into it at all. It's really not a problem for us to come up with our own, we have brains, we can use them! ;)

Regarding the bingo squares, I agree that the tags don't feel particularly appealing. I looked at the Books on the Nightstand and Random House bingo cards and the ones I like are the ones where you can tell the people behind have put a little bit of thought into it and not just picked a genre or a cover-detail.
Things like: "A classic that you should have read in school", "That you started but never finished", "That you chose because of the cover", "The first book by a favourite author", "A book with non-human characters", etc

Indeed. Actual provocative ideas.

I like the idea of coming up with our own topics for the Bingo card. We are that clever! Volunteering to come up with a square is probably the easiest, since group decision making would take months!

>121 RidgewayGirl: Well, we have 5 months left of the year... ;)

Well I'd obviously toss my name in the hat for choosing one :P

>116 PawsforThought: EEEK! My apologies to everyone! Though the "dot com" site would undoubtedly engender a lot of discussion, it's the "dot net" site that's all about bingo cards!

While I've seen RandomCAT and others floating around my friend's threads, I didn't participate in any of them this year and I'm not really sure what they entail. Beyond them being an optional category are there any rules to these?

>125 andreablythe: I didn't participate in them either, simply because I wasn't clear on how they worked. One thing that I'm hoping comes from the discussion is a FAQ/explanation/instructions posted at the each of the CAT sites to help newcomers and others who are unclear as to how it all works.

>126 Tanya-dogearedcopy:
That would be lovely.

The CATs work really simply. Read a book that fits whatever monthly criteria the CAT sets out. Then update the wiki when you've finished the book.

When I first came on board, I had thought that the CATs were monthly discussion groups. Though there are threads, it's really more like status updates than discussion. I was puzzled and kept looking for a link to something more! And it's just with this thread that I realized that there's group voting on CATs, and a decision that had been made earlier that CATS wouldn't repeat... Just one or two lines to explain that it's really wiki-editing and progress updates would help for newcomers! :-)

To answer the questions:

*Did you use them to stretch your reading or more as a way of choosing which book from your TBR to read next? Both. It was especially fun to try to find books to fit across the CATs , in addition to fitting other challenges.

*Did you have a category for one or more of the CATs in your own challenge? I did not do a personal batch of challenges; just the group CATs. Until I’m caught up with other challenges, I will continue so.

*Did the CATs change what you read, and was that good or bad? Yes; mostly good.

*Specific themes with monthly topics: I personally do not like the idea of a non-time-specific CAT. I like the way it currently works with the topics month-specific. Just a personal preference – plus the discussion is more focused, reads are more likely to be shared.

Note: I think mathgirl40 (@47) had some really good ideas.

My 2014 CAT experience:

*RandomCAT: loved.
*MysteryCAT: liked.
*GeoCAT: loved.
*AlphaKIT: I never looked for books to fit here; I just plug in anything I’m already reading if it happens to fit – just because it’s there. If AlphaKIT survives, I’m planning to ignore this one next year.
*GastroKIT: I did enjoy the challenge of finding a book to fit here. But this category generally yielded books that I ended up rating much lower than my other reads. For that reason, I would probably skip this one next time.
*Bingo: I participated in this year’s Bingo card, and would probably join in it if a better card was created for this group. But the Random House card was NOT my favorite challenge in 2014. I would prefer it not be part of the three main CATs, but rather an extra side pet.

Personal Thoughts:

Ideas mentioned in previous threads that I like:

GenreCAT (with a separate genre each month)

HistoryCAT (fiction and nonfiction) (with specific historical times set each month; I think it would be fun if they were in no particular order)

SpeculativeCAT (as someone said: “as long as the subgenres are varied and well defined - it would definitely be a stretch for me. “)

My personal preferences:
RandomCAT
GenreCAT
GeoCAT (continuing with focuses)
BingoDOG

Wow, I've been away for a couple of weeks so have fallen behind but I am glad to see that the Cats will be continuing on in 2015. I have loved and participated in the Cats both years, and agree that 3 Cats is the right number. The Bingo is an excellent idea and intrigues me - but would like to see it separate from the Cats.

I also prefer the current monthly set-up to the Cats rather than a non-time specific set-up. I think we came up with a very good balance this year with timing.

Having all the Cats up by the 15th of the previous month gave me plenty of time for planning. Also we knew by the beginning of the year what each MysteryCat and GeoCat was going to be, which was great for the long term planners.

I do like surprises however and hope that the RandomCat will continue. I am open to voting on all the choices, but am kind of leaning towards seeing new ones. I am an avid mystery reader so the MysteryCat didn't particularly stretch me as I would have been reading lots of mysteries anyway. I enjoyed the GeoCat, but if it wasn't there next year I would simply include a Global Reading Category on my own thread.

I do like the idea of a GenreCat that explores a different genre each quarter. When we did the AwardCat the first year, we were able to sample a few new genres such as westerns and romance and I found that a lot of fun.

I have hosted 2 RandomCats and will be hosting next month's GeoCat and would certainly be willing to host again, but would also like to see some different people get a chance to host as well.

One of the CATs I'll be doing that could possibly be a decent CAT for everyone is GenreBenders. I love it when authors refused to be categorized and write novels that straddle genres and often obliterate them entirely.

Monthly CATs seem more practical to me. Year long reads just don't generate that much discussion because everyone is off doing their own thing most of the time.

I'd be happy to come up with a bingo card if we decide to do that. I did not do one this year, but watched those who did and thought it looked like fun. But as others have said, I thought the cards could have been more imaginative.

As a suggestion for a CAT, an idea that's been in my head for a few days: UnusualCAT (or maybe UncommonCAT). I'm thinking about unusual or uncommon things in books as themes. For instance: a contemporary romance without sex scenes, a gay main character, a romance with an unhappy ending, a crime novel where the bad guys win; stuff like that. Just, celebrating authors and books that dare to step away from the 'typical' of whatever genre/type of book they're writing. Just as a thought.

>132 majkia: Hey, no stealing bingo-card-making! I already called it! :P

I think it'd be good if several people made them, then there'd be style options and people could use different ones in their threads. :)

"I'm here and I'll let you know what I think when voting starts" !

>107 cbl_tn: I think August is generally when someone has been starting next year's challenge group. For instance, this group (2014 challenge) was created 23 August 2013. Should we wait until the 2015 group has been created and carry on the discussion and voting on the 2015 CATs in the 2015 group? That way the discussion threads will be findable if someone searches within the group.

The only issue I see with this is that not everyone joins the next year's group right away and may miss out on discussion. I think it's ok to do the discussion there, but definitely post on several threads in this 2014 group to let people know it's going on.

This group plans much farther ahead than any other I've seen on LT (I love it!) but it might catch some of our members off guard.

>137 japaul22: The 2014 group was created in August of 2013, and the discussion of the 2014 CATs took place in the 2014 group in October. This is much earlier in the year than we started planning for the 2014 CATs. I do think the discussion of the 2015 CATs belongs in the 2015 group, which doesn't yet exist. First-time category challenge group members, who will probably join the 2015 group around Christmas or in the new year, will not think to look in the 2014 group for explanations and voting on the 2015 CATs. We can certainly link to it in multiple places in the 2014 group threads.

*raises hand* I completely missed out on the planning/voting for this year because I had no idea the new group had been created. I'd been gone for a little bit and there was too many threads, so I switched from "all topics" to "groups and posts" and had not the slightest clue all that was going on in some other group. Just because multi-year group members may be aware that planning goes on crazy-early in this group, doesn't mean the whole population does.

>139 .Monkey.: Same here. I went AWOL for a bit and discussions were almost over when I made it back properly. That's my own fault, of course, but I did have trouble finding the discussion in the first place. I generally have "starred" switched on because seeing too many thread makes me stressed out, and then check in on "groups and posts" in the beginning of every month to see if anything's up that I've missed.

Exactly. Most annual groups are made in Dec, occasionally someone gets a jump and makes one in Nov. Not in the summer!! Who'd know to go looking for a new group after being gone for just a week or two even?? People are overwhelmed with posts after that and definitely not checking to see if some annual group has been created all super early!

>139 .Monkey.: >140 PawsforThought: >141 .Monkey.:

You're right that discussion of the 2014 CATs went on in "some other group" - this one, where we're doing the reading and participating this year. The 2014 group was announced in the 2013 threads last summer. By the time discussion of the 2014 CATs took place, the 2014 group had been up and running for nearly 2 months. It doesn't seem right for this group (2014) to plan for another group (2015), which will have a different membership than this group. Also, as members join the 2015 group, they need to be able to find the discussion about the 2015 CATs in that group's discussion/talk archives.

I actually don't see any problem with doing the planning here and now. The group membership will be largely the same, and new people who just decide to join in December/January will miss the discussion regardless of where it happens. It's easy enough to include links to important threads in the group description for future reference.

>143 _Zoe_: I disagree. Maybe it's the librarian/archivist in me, but anyone going back later to look for discussion and explanation of the CATs would logically look in the 2015 group talk threads. The next year's group is usually created in August, and I really do think that's where the discussion of CATs, 2015 group reads, or other 2015 planning belongs.

That is your personal opinion, not some kind of global standard, and I (and clearly I'm not alone) disagree. We're already planning it in this group. So now the planning will be split in two different groups. And why does someone who joins after the planning is complete need to find threads discussing the planning that's already been done, in the same group? They can just as easily be pointed out to the threads here if they wanted to look back over the discussion for some reason. And why in the world does it matter that that's how it happened last year? It's "wrong" to plan out the discussion slightly different? Huh?

>144 cbl_tn: I agree that most of the planning should be in the 2015 group with a link back to this discussion.

>145 .Monkey.: And why does someone who joins after the planning is complete need to find threads discussing the planning that's already been done, in the same group?

If you review earlier comments, several have commented that they are new to the CATs this year and have been trying to figure out what they are and how they work. There will be others in a similar situation in the 2015 group.

Yes, the planning is already going on here. I didn't start the discussion, but I do want to be a part of it. I personally think it's too early to be starting the planning and voting for next year's CATs. It seems like the majority of us are in the northern hemisphere, and we're summer mode and not on LT as much as at other times of the year. We'll soon be in back to school mode (if we're not already). I'd like to make a plea to let these ideas simmer and come back to them in a couple of months when the 2015 group has been created. Right now the discussion has been on this thread, and it will be easy enough to link to it in the 2015 group and continue from there.

>144 cbl_tn: Hmm. I think anyone looking for discussion and explanation of major group issues would look first in the group description. That's where information can be deliberately organized, rather than just presented in a haphazard manner via search.

I think discussing it here also makes more sense from a practical standpoint. Unless we're waiting until January to plan the CATs (which I really don't see happening), some of the newest members are going to be excluded from the discussion anyway. Moving it to the new group but discussing it in the current year just means that some *present* members will be excluded too, if they don't join the new group right away.

>147 cbl_tn: And one more thought. Why should anything we might decide here be binding on the 2015 group? Yes, there will be a lot of overlap between the 2014 and 2015 groups, but the membership won't be identical.

>149 cbl_tn: So do you think that CATs shouldn't be decided until January? That seems problematic from a planning perspective.

>148 _Zoe_: Exactly.

>147 cbl_tn: If you review earlier comments, several have commented that they are new to the CATs this year and have been trying to figure out what they are and how they work. There will be others in a similar situation in the 2015 group.

Err, so the people in the 2014 group haven't found out what the CATs were, when you've just said how it was so "right" that the discussions for them were made in the 2014 group, to enable the people in that year's group to find the info? But now you're arguing that people are saying they still don't know. So...??

>150 _Zoe_: No, I suggested in >147 cbl_tn: that we should wait a couple of months and have the discussion in the 2015 group after it's been up and running for a while. That's assuming that it will be created sometime this month as it's happened in the past. The discussion and voting for the 2014 CATs took place in October and November last year and it was wrapped up by Thanksgiving.

Okay, everybody take a deep breath and let it out. CHILL!

This is supposed to be fun and exciting, not a battle.

Wherever it is decided that the discussion should take place, someone or more than one person will miss out. We'll all just have to try to spread the word so that the majority of the readers here are aware of the discussion underway and where that discussion ends up.

I'm sure you mean well, but please don't ever tell people to "chill" (or "calm down" or "relax" etc). The only thing it ever does is invalidate what anyone may be feeling and irritate the crap out of whoever it is aimed at. I don't think anyone here is not "chill." We are discussing/debating things. That's what this thread is for.

Sounds like a battle to me, so I'll just step back and stay out of it.
See you all when the votes start, wherever.

I joined LT late in September 2013 and found this group soon after. I know I joined in some of the final voting, but did not volunteer to host because I had no idea what was involved. I have to say that the whole planning process created such excitement that I knew right away that LT was the place for me, so I said "Goodbye Goodreads" and have been here ever since.

Does it really matter where the discussion takes place? In my mind, no, as long as word gets out to interested parties. Does it matter when it takes place? Yes - it builds up excitement that will increase participation in the long run.

ETA: When I said that it doesn't matter to me when the discussions take place, I should have said that August, September, or October are fine with me. Any later and it holds up the whole category selection process.

I think the reason that many of us are interested in starting the Cat planning for next year is that we are planning on building a category or two around them on our own 2015 threads and can't really get going on that until we know what the Cats are going to be.

>157 DeltaQueen50: I agree - that helps with the excitement. I'm editing my post to make that clear.

I'm actually grateful that the discussion started "early!" It's already answered a lot of questions that I didn't even knew I had!

My understanding is that we're still discussing the larger issues: How many CATs should we have? Should Bingo be included? Do we repeat CATs or try new ones? Which new ones would we consider?

I don't think it's unreasonable for current members of the challenge to discuss these organizational issues and make early plans. I honestly don't think new members will feel resentful that such plans had been made.

On the other hand, I do agree with >156 LoisB: that the planning process builds excitement. Perhaps we can answer the "big" questions here, but leave the planning of details to the 2015 group, to be done at a later date. Such details might include: What are the monthly themes and how will they be ordered? Who will volunteer for each month? How will bingo be organized and what topics do we choose to fill the squares?

I also agree that the "where" doesn't matter. Once the 2015 group is set up, it's easy to add a link to this thread.

I could be wrong but I don't think anyone is objecting to early planning. Only to early planning if it's in a 2015 group several mos before 2015 starts thereby passing by members who are not looking for 2015 groups so early in the year.

I really don't see a problem with having the discussion here in this thread in this group. The membership of this group and the 2015 group are going to be mostly the same and people who join the 2015 later on and want to read the discussions can just ask one of us and we'll point to this thread. It's really not an issue.

While I think it's a bit early to lock down exactly which CATs we'll do (including voting and organising hosting), having some early discussions (and noting who would be interested in hosting or organising) is not wrong at all. I don't think the whole group should have to start early with the locked down plans just because some people want to have all their categories done by October or whatever. And I'm someone who likes to plan ahead (and have most of my 2015 challenge figured out already). That doesn't mean that we have to wait until December 31st to make the final arrangements but we can just spend some time chatting away and coming up with ideas for CATs, helping each other develop ideas into even better ones and THEN vote and decide.

As far as I'm aware, no one has put forth the idea that the official CATs should be any number other than 3. All seem to be in agreement that this is a good number. Everyone involved in KITs seem to be fine with having them be a side-project. Most people (all?) seem to think that BingoCAT is a good idea but would prefer it to be outside of the 3 main CATs.
So the way I see it, all we need to focus on right now is coming up with ideas for the official CATs (and since RandomCAT is very popoular, I'm guessing that we're looking at keeping that one and coming up with ideas for the two others).

I really hope that people who have ideas share them even if they feel nervous about it. The more suggestions we get the better for the group. Just because there are a few ideas out there - and they have a few supporters - doesn't mean that we don't need more. Keep them coming!

While we don't need to get into the nitty gritty details just yet, I think it would be fantastic if we could decide the broad cats in the next month or so. I'm already planning my reading for next year lol so that would help a lot.

As the person who started this thread, I feel like I should apologize to anyone who is feeling frustrated or overwhelmed by the discussion so far. Obviously we are a very enthusiastic and opinionated group! My intention was just to get people thinking about the 2015 challenge and CATs, since I assumed it would take a while for people to digest their own, and other people's, ideas. I think the discussion has been pretty productive so far! And I do agree that voting should take place later, in the 2015 challenge group, once that has been created. But I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing structural issues or general CAT ideas now, so that we can have a little time to think about how we'd like to vote!

Whew! I've just read through all of the above and here's my 2 cents:

I enjoyed the CATs more this year than I ever have. I only participated in MysteryCat and RandomCat. I also did one or two group reads. I'm not sure I would go back to 3 CATs but if the categories are broad I might.

I like the idea of HistoryCAT and I might participate in Awards CAT again if the awards were just the primary awards. I did not like last years AwardsCat because I felt like it was a must do rather than something I really wanted to do because I wasn't interested in some of the genres.

I liked MysteryCAT. Even though I read a lot of mysteries it pushed me into some new to me authors. I had always meant to read The Big Sleep but hadn't until the MysteryCat noir challenge.

Also like the idea of Bingo but would prefer not using genres.

This year, my third, I got my categories sorted out better by using broad categories. I need to add one though for ER books because I sometimes lag behind on them. I would probably not use a CAT category because my categories are broad enough to fit pretty much anything in, except poetry. I might do a small poetry category next year. This year categories were 14 or 7 books per, haven't decided on next year yet.

I would be glad to host a month but would need instructions.

>164 christina_reads: Please don't feel like you need to apologise for anything. You don't. I wholeheartedly agree with you that it's good to start talking early, and then we can leave the final voting and such to later on (if that is in the 2015 group or this one doesn't matter much to me).

This is making for some interesting reading and it is thought-provoking. However, as gung ho as I was about all three of the CATs this year, I haven't been as involved with them as I'd hoped.

As an avid mystery reader, I've probably enjoyed the Mystery CAT one the most. I also like the random nature of the random CAT. Despite my best intentions, the Geo CAT never grabbed me like I thought it would.

For next year, my focus is on what my own 2015 challenge will look like and whatever you all want to do with the CATs is fine by me. For me, personally, 15 categories seems like way too many so I'm thinking about a drastic overhaul and not just adding one additional category.

The reasoning for starting discussion so early is that we tend to find solutions that work the more we discuss. And there are several people who are already planning their next year's reading. I don't want them to get left out. The specifics of the CATs we choose will be in the general threads for each specific CAT and we'll only open that when the new group is up.

Most of the people who are going to participate in the category challenge next year are already here. Most newcomers won't join until the end of this year or the beginning of next year, so they wouldn't be able to do much except take a look at what we've come up with and decide if they are interested. We can make sure that newcomers know about the CATs and we can be welcoming, but we can't wait until after the year has begun to plan the CATs. If you know of someone who is thinking of the category challenge in 2015 and isn't participating this year, let them know.

I've mentioned this discussion on my thread. If a few other people do this, we can catch the people who just haven't discovered the CATs yet. But if last year is anything to go on, we won't have a problem with getting participants. August is a vacationy month, which is why the decisions made now will be mostly administrative (how many CATs, etc…) with votes left open for a full week, so as to make sure that those who want to vote are able to do so.

RE: where this discussion should be held - in the 2014 or the 2015 group.

Speaking as one who was new to the Category Challenge this year, I can say that I enjoyed going back to read the discussion which brought about the plans. But I felt no compunction to enter into it as a newbie CATer. Now I think on it, I believe I found those discussions after the voting was closed, read them anyway, and would not have felt a need to be part of the discussion. I did not feel left out by entering into something that had already been decided. I think others new to the CATs might feel the same way, and would look forward to the following year's discussion after they've enjoyed a year of CATing around.

I see both points of view, but feel that the extra planning it takes to make this big sh-bang go, might trump the very real concern over new CATers in 2015. Though it makes sense to me that after plans start firming up, that further discussion and the actual voting takes place in the 2015 thread, with links back to the initial discussion.

>167 lindapanzo: A lot of people play with the numbers in creative ways, so they still "use" the number of the year, but not just as it comes. Like, 3x5=15, so you could do something with that, or, whatever! You don't have to use it at all, but just as an idea, you can play around with different ways of utilizing it. :)

Both RandomCAT and GenreCAT sound interesting to me.

This may be along shot, as I'm not sure how many would be interested, but I would love a PoetryCAT, which could be recent books of poetry, Shakespeare and his contemporaries, novels in poems, or anything in between, depending on the month.

>128 majkia: and >129 Tanya-dogearedcopy:
Thank you! That's good to know, because I was very confused.

Hi, can I suggest changing to a more specific name for this topic - "Next year's CATs" or something? Both the head of the topic itself and the link to it suggests this is a thread to discuss next year's challenge in general, but the discussion going on is something much more narrow, right from the get-go. I'm not interested in CATs, and this doesn't seem to be the place to talk about how many categories one is hoping to cram into next year, or get ideas for categories or candidates.

When the group votes on something, is there a voting utility on LT? Or is a consensus arrived at through posts? Or do you use an off-site utility like Survey Monkey?

There's a voting utility on LT.

See https://www.librarything.com/topic/177029#4750147 which shows how to do votes

I don't think of 2013, 2014 or 2015 as different groups. I see them as phases of the same group. You have to join sometime and if you join late then you just go with the group or go somewhere else. I came back late last year and didn't get into the discussion but it was okay. I have this year. Members will come and go, people have to accept the responsibility for their choices and not expect everything to serve them personally. I tell everyone on the other sites how nice and friendly people are on LT but new people dropping in for the later part of this discussion would doubt me. I would expect that this group or this groups moderators to be planning for 2015. I would not expect a brand new group. Are there no moderators in groups on LT? Are they spontaneous combustion? Maybe there is too much democracy?

>175 majkia: Thank you! There are all sorts of goodies in there I hadn't been aware of! :-)

>172 GingerbreadMan: Unfortunately, I can't change the thread title. I can see how it would be misleading to people who want to talk about 2015 but not the CATs…although personally, I would welcome that kind of discussion here too! So far the CATs have generated the most opinions and discussion, but I think this is a fine place to discuss general plans for categories, numbers of books, and the like!

>>178 christina_reads: FYI - if you continue the thread, you can update the title then.

What a great discussion! I'd like to see RandomCAT back and add two other CATs (I liked GeoCAT, but like >131 DeltaQueen50:, I'll still have something like that on my own thread if it doesn't come back as a CAT). BingoCAT is a great idea for a year-long.

My plan was to set up the 2015 by the end of this month, but if the group wants it earlier (or later), I'd be happy to do that too.

>176 Kristelh:
No, we don't have a moderator per se - we're self-regulating. I don't think there's anything not-nice in this thread - having differing opinions is not the opposite of being nice, right?

>176 Kristelh:/>180 -Eva-: No, no moderators on LT, period. That doesn't exist. Everything is a free-for-all "democratic" process. The only rules are those in the TOS--namely no personal attacks. And yes, debating ideas is not being "not nice." I would worry about people who think that passionate discussion/opinions means that folks are somehow mean. You will find people passionate about their ideas & opinions everywhere on LT, it's pretty much par for the course here. That has no bearing on people being nice & friendly.

>180 -Eva-:/>181 .Monkey.:. I am fine with differing opinions and expressing them but this did seem to deteriorate.

I don't see how debating ideas and opinions on a thread dedicated to debating ideas is being not-nice. We're supposed to be discussing, and we are.

>171 andreablythe: I quite like the idea of a PoetryCAT, but it's definitely a genre that would be polarising.

I think I own two books of poetry. Maybe. Unless we're really counting Shakespeare, whose complete works I also own. I'd definitely not be participating at all in that one.

>171 andreablythe: What about having poetry as one of the genres if we end up with a CAT with four genres? Last year there was a poetry RandomCAT that I ended up enjoying quite a bit.

>185 RidgewayGirl:: I like the idea of a genre CAT with four genres, as it would motivate me to explore some of the genres I don't normally read, like westerns, romances, poetry, or humour. A year-long CAT on any one of these topics would be less appealing. Two genres or three would be fine too. Isn't it convenient that 12 is divisible by so many numbers? :)

I'm not sure how I feel about a four-genre GenreCAT but the idea is growing on me. Maybe we could make it six genres? Twelve would be way too many, in my opinion, but four is verging on too few, I think. Three months per genre is dragging it out a bit (especially if you're not interested in that genre). Six two-month-long genres might be better.

>187 PawsforThought: I agree, I don't like stretching such long periods for them. Granted I may ignore them completely as I dislike the idea itself, but I do read genre fic and would therefore still semi-participate when I read matching stuff, but 3 mos per single thing means I'd probably not wind up doing it at all even if I wanted to try here & there.

>171 andreablythe: - I like the idea of poetry cropping up somewhere in next year's group. I don't dip into poetry very often and need the nudge to do so. If it doesn't make it as one of the CATS, a Poetry thread - I see something like "Poetry Corner" or some such title - could be set up and run for the year.

>187 PawsforThought: >188 .Monkey.: I, on the other hand, would prefer to devote at least 3 months to a genre, so that I could examine it in some depth and learn about subgenres. My goal with a genre-based CAT would not be to just read a book or two in the given genre but to explore its scope. What I've loved best about the MysteryCAT this year was being pushed to read more than just the "typical" mysteries and discovering many new authors.

I also like three months better than two.

But you can continue to read in a genre you've discovered you enjoy, why do you need a CAT challenge in order to do so? You can continue exploring it for the next year, or the rest of your life! (That might sound bitchy, looking at it, but it's not! It's a "Hey, I like this thing! I now have some new thing to investigate! More potential awesome books/authors to add to my lists!" etc) I just don't get why this need to put so much focus on genres as a big challenge. Guess I'm just outvoted and will be ignoring one of the CATs though.

Yeah, I don't really understand the arguments made here.
If you discover a "new" genre, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from continuing to read that genre even after the allocated CAT time period is over. Nothing. And if you're already a fan of that genre, again, there's nothing stopping you from reading more such books.

Making sure that sub-genres are highlighted and people are introduced to them would be an important part of hosting that genre. Simply having more time allocated is not going to make more people read a genre or sub-genre, but having those genres explained and exemplified probably would. So as long as the people volunteering to host the genres do a good job and go into detail about what varieties are out there, we won't have any problems.

Well, we haven't even decided that there will be a GenreCAT, so you never know which way the voting will go!

A more general topic that I'd like to bring up is the possibility of having a group read attached to the monthly CAT topics. I can see pros and cons to this. I think that having more people reading the same book could lead to some good discussion, especially of the focus theme. I'm thinking of how the GeoCAT worked this year. It would be neat to actually discuss how the focus topic was reflected in a book which I didn't see much of this year. Obviously, people could still choose to read whatever they want that fit the broad or focused theme and ignore the group book. The downside of having a group read attached might be that we wouldn't get to see as much variety in reading if lots of people chose the group read for their book. It's kind of neat to see the wide array of books that can fit each topic and that might be more the point of a CAT. It also might be a pain to pick the group read, although we could just have that month's host do it.

Initial reactions?

>194 japaul22: I would probably be more motivated to participate, especially in something more educational like history, if there was a group read to join in. Just because the possibility for more in depth discussion would motivate me to pick up something I otherwise might not read. I think the host might suggest one or two possibilities for a group read and folks could join in as they wish. It might also be good to have a suggested fictional group read and nonfiction for an educational category. I don't read a lot of nonfiction and wouldn't even know where to begin but I'm interested in reading more.

As for a genre CAT, I think it would be cool to have more genres but make them more focused. So instead of having science fiction, for instance, we might pick alternate history or Dystopias. If the idea is learning about new genres, that would inspire more discovery, I think.

Edited to fix stupid typos put in by my tablet.

As for a genre CAT, I think it would be cool to have more genres but make them more focused. So instead of having science fiction, for instance, we might pick alternate history or Dystopias. If the idea is learning about new genres, that would inspire more discovery, I think.

>195 sturlington: Yes, I agree. When I was arguing for at least 3 months for a genre, I was thinking of broad genres. Only 2 months for science fiction, for example, would be too unfocused. I'd prefer a 3-month (or longer) challenge where a different subgenre were investigated each month. However, I'd be fine with a 2-month or even 1-month challenge if the genre were more focused.

Could the genres be subdivided to give us both more challenge and more variety? So if science fiction was a genre, one month could be space operas, one month dystopian worlds and one month could be women writing SF? That way we can pick and choose what we like, or delve a bit deeper, without spending too long on any one genre? I'll be happy with whatever we choose (I take the CATs are optional slogan to heart and skip months happily when I don't get around to it or don't feel like reading that theme.) but two months seems skimpy and four an awful lot.

Eh, we'll vote on that if we decide to follow that idea.

Tying a group read to a CAT is an interesting idea. We should keep that in mind when Group Reads are being planned as maybe we could coordinate them a bit?

>185 RidgewayGirl:
That could work. I read poetry all the time anyway, so I don't necessarily need a PoetryCAT. It's more that I want to connect with other lovers of poetry.

>189 lkernagh:
I think a Poetry Corner thread is an excellent idea. That may be the way to go, and it could even have an optional book of the month.

>196 mathgirl40:
I also like the idea of a range of more specific subgenres for GenreCAT, which could range from steampunk to space opera to alternate world fantasy.

A square on a bingo card would be enough poetry for me. :)

If AwardsCAT doesn't come back next year and GenreCAT is in, genre awards might be a good optional subfocus (or maybe a Kit?) to go along with GenreCAT.

I like the idea of more group discussion, but I'm not sure a single title is really needed. I'm sure I'm not the only one w/o the funds to go buying new (whether literal new or 2ndhand) books for group reads and libraries don't have everything (especially those of us not in the US/UK). If there were a more specific focus we could all read whatever we wanted and discuss it from our own perspectives. That's what I like about Monthly Author Reads. One author, various selections of books, discussing the wider points. I think it leads to more discussion when people don't all read the same thing (unless it's some really controversial work with lots of debate over it), because everyone has some slightly different aspects to put forward, rather than the usual "I'm on ch3, really liking it so far" kind of stuff that often winds up happening.

>>185 RidgewayGirl: What if we went with a Poetry and Plays CAT or in the Genre CAT? Then the Bard would definitely come in handy and we could also look at how poetry and plays have changed over the years.

>>194 japaul22: I think a group read attached to the CATs is a good idea depending on the CATs that are selected. I would think, however, that books would have to be carefully selected so that we could be sure that they would be available for the majority at the library. I wouldn't want to buy a book if I had never tried the genre and wasn't sure that I would enjoy it.

As for the GenreCat, Could we possibly have a split - 2 months, 3 months,2 months 3 months, 2 months - then we could get 5 genres and handle those with more subgenres in the 3 month blocks. Personally, I prefer the quarterly division - 3 months each.

I love the idea of a genre CAT. I tend to read a lot of mysteries and quite a bit of nonfiction and not much else. I can't say that I'd try every one but i'd love to give some of them a try.

> 185 >201 cyderry: What about a Shakespeare CAT? It could include poetry, plays, and NF about the Bard/his work. The material would be readily available in libraries and online for those who wouldn't be able to purchase the material. Do you think there would be enough interest?

>203 Tanya-dogearedcopy: It's worth voting on the idea when the time comes! All ideas are welcome. It has the advantage of all the materials being really easy to find.

I think for something like that -- it would be successful if there was someone both knowledgeable and willing to lead the discussion.

I like the idea of a group read along with each month's challenge, though I have a horrible record of actually following through with group reads.

I also agree that any genre CATS should be relatively focused rather than broad (e.g., dystopia rather than SF). I wonder if it would be helpful to start brainstorming specific subgenres, which could help in deciding how many months would be best? (Assuming, of course, that we even did a GenreCAT).

E.g., some science fiction ideas, drawing on what people have mentioned above:
Space operas
Dystopian Worlds
Women writing SF
Classic SF?

Maybe Shakespeare would do better in a KIT - histories, comedies, tragedies, well known plays, lesser known plays poetry. I'm not sure that there would be enough interest but we could put it to a vote. There are advantages to a plays and poetry - you can usual read them quickly.

Personally, I love the idea of a Shakespeare CAT or KIT. There is so much material out there as well as theatres that do performances - maybe we could look in our areas and see if there is play going on and we could have a meetup? I know wishful thinking.

I don't think Shakespeare is broad enough to be a CAT, or even a "genre" in a GenreCAT. He could be used as a focus in a P&P CAT (that's poetry and plays, not Pride and Prejudice), or indeed a KIT, but one author - even one with as much influence as ole Billy Shakers - is just too narrow for a CAT by himself. That's definitely cutting out people. Poetry and plays as a genre would invite a far larger number to participate.

There are also several YA fiction books related to Shakespeare that I am aware of as well as some more grownup fiction. He even shows up as a character in some fantasy novels. One could also read works by his contemporaries.

>205 _Zoe_: To add on to your list:
Apocalypse/Post-apocalypse/Dying Earth
Religious science fiction
Alternate history
Time travel
Parallel worlds/Multiverse
Slipstream
Steampunk/Cyberpunk/Biopunk
Space colonization

Even more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_science_fiction#Genres_of_science_fictio...

Science fiction is the genre I know best, but I'm sure we could come up with subgenres for other broad categories as well. For instance, under horror, there could be gothic or even Southern gothic, paranormal/occult, ghost stories, etc.

There's certainly a lot to choose from!

#203 by @Tanya-dogearedcopy> I'd agree to a Shakespeare CAT ONLY if I could read Verily, a New Hope. :)

There'd be enough horror subgenres to do an entire CAT based around them. Actually that'd be pretty interesting, maybe I'll do that myself. Could do a KIT if others wanted to join in. There's enough Gothic subgenres to make up half of it, even, lol.

Seeing as I like to use the Cats to help with my TBR's, I like the idea of broader Cats that would make it easier to fit in books I currently have on the shelf or on my library list. When we get too specific in terms of author, it narrows or eliminates my choices. I do like the idea of a GenreCat that is broken into focus areas over a two or three month period (I prefer three months). And I would like to see Poetry (a grenre that I haven't explored much) and Sci-Fi or Fantasy.

I've noticed that there seems to be more participation when the Cats are broader and people find they can find books in their own TBRs. I like the idea of at least one Cat that is on this lighter side - something like a CoverCat. CoverCat would be a Cat that is dedicated to book covers, each month we could have a different criteria.

Examples:

- Plain Cover - no pictures, just the print
- Colorful Cover
- Attractive Cover
- Ugly Cover
- Cover with more than one Person
- Cover that uses a photograph instead of drawn artwork
- Cover that features primary colors - Red, Blue, Yellow
- Cover that has an Animal on it
- A Cover that Features Water in some way

Just something to add to the voting list.

And I would hate an entire CAT devoted to such a random thing, and especially covers. I don't pay attention to covers, I pay attention to content. I think the RandomCAT is enough with the more "frivolous" kind of categories (not complaining, I'm one of the majority, I think it's fun having random ideas tossed out by different people and not knowing what's coming), plus a couple of that sort of thing will likely wind up on the bingo card.

I'm not sure of what I'd end up voting for yet, but I'd be interested in the opportunity to vote for a Shakespeare CAT, a poetry CAT, and a Cover CAT. They are all ideas that I have an initial interest in that could lead either towards getting really excited about them or the opposite. For some reason, I'm personally not all that interested in a GenreCAT though I can't put my finger on why.

Personally, I really don't like the idea of a CAT based around something like covers. Mostly because a lot of the time, covers have nothing at all to do with the book itself. I'd prefer to have CATs centered around the theme of the books themselves. And many books have several different covers so it doesn't matter anyway.

>214 japaul22: No need to worry. I'm pretty sure ALL the suggestions will be up for voting.

I can't remember but when we vote do we have

YES = I would probably participate in this CAT

NO = I definitely won't participate

Undecided = I don't know if I will participate or not.

OR

Do we get a chance to vote down a choice or only say:

YES = I want to do this CAT

No= Not my top choice

Undecided = Might to it.

I'd say first round of voting = I like the sound of that, I might do it, or no, not interested, or, maybe, don't know.

Once it's clear what ones have significant yes votes, then those could be put up against each other in a more firm, these are our options, choose three that you'd do vote.

From a completely neutral, non-interested party, I'd just like to say that the tone of this discussion seems to border on the unfriendly and dismissive at times. Spirited debate and exchanges of ideas are great, but they don't have to go hand-in-hand with an unwelcoming atmosphere.

Just saying.

.........trying really hard not to make a super irritated snarky remark to that.

If I remember correctly from last year, we list each CAT for voting with a yes, no or undecided. Each person is asked to vote yes no more than three times, and three times undecided for their second favorites, no for everything else.

So far we have:

BioCAT
HistoryCAT
GenreCAT (with all the variations)
PoetryCAT
ShakespeareCAT
CoverCAT
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy)
HorrorCAT
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays)
BingoCAT (or make this its own thing)
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?)
AwardsCAT

Did I miss any?

I don't think a single person has wanted bingo as a CAT, so, if you really want you can toss in a vote for it but, I don't think we need one. Same for random, only like two people have said no, everyone else was yes, so it definitely is on the board.

>210 majkia: Absolutely! ;-)

>220 .Monkey.: - I think you just proved my point :)

I really wasn't pointing fingers, just noting that as someone who was thinking about dipping my toes back into the Category Challenge, I was surprised at some of the comments and how they came across. I guess if I were going to participate, and I didn't like a proposed category, I would just vote against it when the chance came rather than devoting a paragraph to why I thought it was not a good suggestion. To each her own...

I'll shuffle off now and leave it to y'all. And keep my toes dry for another year!

So, you think no one should discuss the options and why or why not to choose them... in the discussion thread. Right. You prove my point on why your fly-by remark about those of us actually contributing to the discussion are not being mean by, you know, discussing, and was worthy of the same self-righteous attitude it was left in. Seriously, you think we should just shut up rather than discuss, yet you don't have a problem "devoting a paragraph" to condemn our "unfriendliness."

My little piece of feedback on the CATs is that although I've been a member of the category challenge since joining LTgroups back in 2008, I haven't taken to the CAT challenges at all. I tried this year and managed January and possibly February.

For me, I just can't keep up with the planning discussions, I don't understand the discussions and then during the year navigation to the actual CAT threads is hard to find. The links on the group home page are to the CAT wiki pages and I'd like those wiki pages to link to discussion threads rather than having to scroll through all the threads looking for one if indeed they do exist for each month's CAT.
As it is the wikis list books read, but I'm more likely to join a CAT during the month if I can easily navigate to a discussion thread and I don't see that, I might be blind.

Back in message #154 I thought that things were getting a bit too offensive with people trying to force their opinions on the group. I will state again that this isn't a contest but it's supposed to be a fun project where we express our opinions in a friendly manner. Maybe it's time to continue this thread and start everyone with a clean slate.

Well since we're apparently only allowed to agree or shut up lest we be unfriendly, I'm mostly done commenting here. So carry on where/however you want. I'll be back for voting.

Oh, please. I never suggested any such thing. All I was saying was that as someone potentially new, the tone was disconcerting. But I also acknowledge that I am (or would be) new to the group after a couple-year hiatus so maybe this is how y'all interact and that's fine. It's just not for me.

Now it's a CATastrophe.

>230 March-Hare: CAT fighting :-D

>221 RidgewayGirl: I think there was some discussion of a broader SpeculativeCAT that might be a bit more appealing to people who don't usually read SFF? But I don't know if it would make sense to split the votes by including both.

>230 March-Hare:, 231 Hehe :)

I think if we went with the idea of "SFF" as meaning "Speculative Fiction and Fantasy," it would cover most ground from aliens to wizards. That way it wouldn't split the vote and the genre could be broken down into broad sub-genres each month.

I might be a fool but I really don't understand how people can think the tone here is unfriendly or hostile. Granted, everything seems more harsh written down than when spoken, but expressing opinions and stating when you have a problem with something (and as far as I can remember, usually explaining WHY there might be a problem) surely isn't a hostile thing? This is a discussion thread, what else are we supposed to do? If we don't discuss things, this will merely become a thread where people post ideas for CATs and then we vote on them. That sounds rather boring to me and also dangerous. If no one contests anything there's very little room for development. An idea that was only half-though through will remain that way instead of developing into something that could be great for a CAT.

>226 avatiakh: If you have ideas for how to make the group (and the CATs) more easy to maneuver and threads easier to find, please let people know! Adding links to the top of a group page is easily done and I'm sure the group creator would be more than happy to do it (I think it's Eva who usually sets up the CC group).
We want people to have easy access to thread, wikis and group discussions (like this one or the group reads).

>226 avatiakh: I often have a hard time finding the monthly discussion threads, too. The monthly threads would be easier to find with a link on the wiki. The nice thing about the wikis are that anyone can edit it. It would be easy enough for the monthly hosts to add a link to that month's thread when it's been started. If the host forgets to do it, someone else can.

>234 Tanya-dogearedcopy: If I remember correctly, speculative fiction is a broad category that encompasses fantasy as well as science fiction and a whole host of other subgenres. So "Speculative Fiction and Fantasy" may be technically redundant. It's still brilliant as a category, though.

*Does a bit of quick research, because now I'm curious*

According to the Speculative Literature Foundation:

2. What is speculative literature anyway?
Speculative literature is a catch-all term meant to inclusively span the breadth of fantastic literature, encompassing literature ranging from hard science fiction to epic fantasy to ghost stories to horror to folk and fairy tales to slipstream to magical realism to modern myth-making -- and more. Any piece of literature containing a fabulist or speculative element would fall under our aegis, and would potentially be work that we would be interested in supporting. (http://www.speculativeliterature.org/SLF_faq.php)

According to Wikipedia:

Speculative fiction is an umbrella term encompassing the more fantastical fiction genres, specifically science fiction, fantasy, horror fiction, weird fiction, supernatural fiction, superhero fiction, utopian and dystopian fiction, apocalyptic and post-apocalyptic fiction, and alternate history in literature as well as related static, motion, and virtual arts. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speculative_fiction)

Alrighty then... I think that's broad and encompassing enough. :)

I went back and amended the list in >221 RidgewayGirl: to make SFFCAT into science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy. Does that clarify?

To ramble a bit…I've moved around a fair bit and done some cultural training in different countries. It means that when I'm in Germany, I remind myself to be extra direct, to the point where I feel like I'm being rude. And in Britain I go extra indirect to the point of wanting to scream because we are not getting to the point. I think here we're just hitting differences in communication styles. What one person sees as telling it like it is and having opinions, another can see as brash and bordering on rude. Can we all assume that we are all friends who have differing communication styles and continue to discuss. Words on the internet always appear harsher since we can't see the accompanying smile. If you need to skip someone's posts because they drive you nuts, go ahead and do so, but don't abandon your contribution to this thread.

So now we'll start over and continue this conversation in a new thread. Refreshments will be served.

>238 RidgewayGirl: I am all for refreshments. It's been a long, long day.

LOL, Yes I think we're all on the same page in regards to what a magical, dystopian space CAT might include! :-D

As for that refreshment, I'm going for the appropriately literarily-named cocktail, The Dark 'n' Stormy! ;-)

I really don't understand how people can think the tone here is unfriendly or hostile.

Good statement and if no one objects, I will use it as a impromptu segue into the the topic of tone. While it is true that tone cannot be implied in the written word, it is amazing how tone can be 'interpreted' by the emotional perception of the end reader and I think that is where the 'tone' is coming in to play, and the added rebuttals. Most people posting on this thread have - to some extent or other - a vested interest in seeing what they want to see materialize as the CATS (and KITS) for next year. So yes, it is fair to say that some readers may imply or construe tone when reading posts.

I know LT doesn't have a monitor policy but perception is something that really just comes down to interactive communications. Before anyone tries to rebut or refute this, I lived through a live example in one of my previous jobs where the CFO of the company actually stated in an email that my email had tone when it didn't so I merely ask that people keep this context in mind when writing/reading posts here and weigh in if you feel comfortable to do so, keeping in mind that people will differ in their reactions to the written word.

Let the discussion resume.

>235 PawsforThought: >236 cbl_tn: Thanks for commenting on my feedback.

Personally I'd desribe this discussion as 'spirited' rather than anything else.

>196 mathgirl40: When I was arguing for at least 3 months for a genre, I was thinking of broad genres. Only 2 months for science fiction, for example, would be too unfocused. I'd prefer a 3-month (or longer) challenge where a different subgenre were investigated each month.

I agree with the longer, the better for any GenreCAT. Mystery is a genre and we an entire year of it this year. I am happy to do another full year of a particular genre, with each month being a different subgenre within it.

I do think some genres have more subgenres than others, so the timing might depend on how many subgenres there are in a particular genre.

>197 RidgewayGirl: Tying a group read to a CAT is an interesting idea. We should keep that in mind when Group Reads are being planned as maybe we could coordinate them a bit?

Yes, I like this idea. I have so many different challenges that it's hard to work in an additional group read, even if I'd like to. If the group reads were coordinated with the CATs, that would make it much easier to fit in, I think.

>211 .Monkey.: There'd be enough horror subgenres to do an entire CAT based around them. Actually that'd be pretty interesting, maybe I'll do that myself. Could do a KIT if others wanted to join in. There's enough Gothic subgenres to make up half of it, even, lol.

I'd definitely do a horror CAT or KIT!

Another genre that I think could potentially fill an entire year (I suspect SF might even come close (>209 sturlington: already listed about 8?) is Fantasy.

It's definitely not a favourite genre for me (nor is SF), but I do like particular subgenres (urban fantasy, YA (I suppose this is technically not a subgenre, but it could be something to focus on for a month), supernatural). What I call Epic or Traditional Fantasy is what I tend to think of most often when I think fantasy and that's what I usually don't like. But, I'm sure a fantasy reader could come up with more subgenres, as well.

Have to admit I'm not a Shakespeare fan, so I know I wouldn't do that one, but like someone else said, we should be throwing out ideas here to be voted on later. It's obvious there are plenty of others who would enjoy it!

ETA: Ok, now that I see an explanation of Speculative fiction (not being a big reader of either SF or fantasy, I wasn't sure what that meant), there is definitely enough subgenres there for an entire year!

>245 LibraryCin: Glad to hear it re: horror! If we get at least a couple others who enjoy horror also I'd totally host a KIT (I'm taking a wild guess there's not many and it won't make CAT), otherwise I'll be tossing in a cat. for it of my own (well, I'll be doing that regardless :P) where I'll try and focus on diff kinds over the year (the past two years I've solely done a Gothic cat.) and you're cordially invited to hang out & discuss and maybe even plot some dual-reading of horror with me there. ;D

>246 .Monkey.:. Thanks! I don't fit it in all that often, but sometimes. Certainly if it were a KIT or CAT (I suspect you're right and it will more likely be a KIT, as it won't likely make the cut for a CAT), I will do much better! :-)

>247 LibraryCin: It looks like there's actually a fair handful at least partially interested, so it looks a near certainty that I'll be doing a horror KIT :)

>248 .Monkey.: Nice! Looking forward to it!

PM, I hope you won't be disappointed if HorrorCAT makes the cut! : )

LOL It'd be fine, I just don't expect it!