Next year's CATs -- Preliminary discussion and some voting!

So far, our suggestions for possible CATs are:

BioCAT
HistoryCAT
Bio/HistoryCAT (name to come?)
GenreCAT (with all the variations)
PoetryCAT
ShakespeareCAT
CoverCAT
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy)
HorrorCAT
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays)
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?)
AwardsCAT
AlphaCAT
ListCAT
ForeignCAT
WomenCAT
Non-FictionCAT
HomeCAT
GeoCAT
FamilyCAT
DreamCAT
TravelCAT

ATTENTION: The first round of voting is open and begins on post 101.

And, as promised,

And for those of you who don't do caffeine in the evening…



And just for Tanya-dogearedcopy:

Thanks, I'll have the teapot!

I've brought some pie and Ice Cream too.



We had talked about combining BIO and HISTORY.
Should we have that as a possibility too?

I think AlphaCAT was mentioned, too.

Post 1 amended as suggested.

mmmmm, refreshments! Thanks!

leaving my trail of breadcrumbs . . .

not a fn of the genreCAT, but like the idea of tying into the Group Reads

I like the idea of trying to coordinate across CATS, Groups reads. I think that might be helpful, promote more discussions. I do have to confess that I can be poor at participating in group reads but I would sincerely look at trying to make it work. And thanks to the hostesses for the refreshments.

BioCAT.....I do not like reading Bio's enough to want a whole year of them
HistoryCAT, I think this might be very interesting.
Bio/HistoryCAT (name to come?) I could possibly live with this though I think history would naturally be inclusive of bio's.
GenreCAT (with all the variations), I am just not sure if I would really like this but would try to make it work
PoetryCAT, do not want a CAT, prefer this be a KIT
ShakespeareCAT, I just bought a complete Shakespeare and set a personal goal to get more familiar with Shakespeare because it is the foundation for much of literature. So I am in favor of this.
CoverCAT: not really
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy) I'm okay with this one
HorrorCAT, maybe not
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) no
BingoCAT (or make this its own thing), make it separate, not a CAT
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?), this was hard for me this year but it would really vary every year so probably okay
AwardsCAT, I would love this but maybe should wait another year before it comes around again. I only started participating this year but last year I was lurching and thought this was interesting.
AlphaCAT, I think this is good as a KIT
GeoCAT- yes

I think most people on sites like this love lists, has anyone thought of doing a ListCAT

>10 Kristelh: What would ListCAT entail?

Back to the previous thread, thank you casevelyn for all that information about speculative fiction! That definitely seems promising.

And I agree with Kristelh that biographies would fit naturally under history.

I think my conclusion from this is that I like CATS that are broadly unified around a content-based theme (e.g., historical or SFF, rather than just a group of 4 unrelated genres) but that are fairly inclusive and allow for different types of things within them (biography within historical, all the non-fantasy and non-science-fiction within speculative).

So on that note, I wonder whether some of the more specific CAT suggestions could end up fitting as months within broader CATs, if they don't get chosen on their own. E.g., I could see Shakespeare within an Elizabethan or Renaissance month in historical; horror could go within SFF, etc.

Wow, I went away for 3 days and came back to 189 unread messages and then a jump to a brand new thread. You've all been busy!

I've never paid any attention to the CATS, which all the chatter seems to be about. If there is anything I missed about the group in general that is interesting, please let me know. In particular, I'm interested in how people are structuring their challenge.

Or has this just turned into an All-CAT group? In which case, never mind and have fun!

I went away for a week and missed an entire thread about next years CATS. I'd be interested in a PoetryCAT or a P&PCAT. And, of course, RandomCAT. I really like the Bingo idea.

A list CAT could be Times 100 books, Modern library, 1001 books, Summer Reading list, NYTimes reading list, Banned books, Oprah, Children's Choices, ALA, etc. There are many lists. Various libraries make reading lists too. It is a similar idea to Awards I guess, without redoing awards.

Bio/HistoryCAT - I would like this one
GenreCAT - would like this to be quarterly that way 4 genres would be covered in the year
CoverCAT: not interested - sounds too much like the 75 grp TIOLI
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy) - okay
HorrorCAT - definitely not for me
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) definitely a possibility for me
BingoCAT - BINGODOG should be on his own
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?) - I'd prefer to see this one suspended for a while
AwardsCAT - didn't care for it last year maybe because of the awards selected - needs revamping before being reconsidered IMO
AlphaCAT - perfect as a KIT
GEOCAT - maybe a KIT in 2015?

I thought I'd enjoy the AwardsCAT more than I did. Too many of them offered me no real choice I wanted to read, and some had few books, mostly ones I'd already read. So if we do that again, or choose a ListCAT I'd suggest we make them fairly wide ranging if we can to garner more participation.

>13 Nickelini:
Not at all, the CATs are still very much a side, take it or leave it thing - there is a thread discussing our regular challenge set-up over here.

#18 - Thanks, Eva!

>12 _Zoe_: You're welcome! Spec fic is my favorite genre, so I'm just trying to spread the love.

We're doing thoughts about each one?
Ok, here goes:

BioCAT - I'd go for this
HistoryCAT - I like this
Bio/HistoryCAT (name to come?) - This one, too.
GenreCAT (with all the variations) - I would do this one
PoetryCAT - not for me
ShakespeareCAT - not my thing
CoverCAT - Maybe a KIT?
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy) - yup
HorrorCAT - yup
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - not my thing
BingoCAT (or make this its own thing) - make it its own thing
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?) - yes
AwardsCAT - undecided
AlphaCAT - still like this as a KIT

My 2 cents:

BioCAT - not for me - there was a quarterly bio group read over in 75ers group this year - how much participation was there?
HistoryCAT - yes
Bio/HistoryCAT (name to come?) - for me, this is just history, so OK
GenreCAT (with all the variations) - maybe
PoetryCAT - for a whole year? probably not
ShakespeareCAT - interesting
CoverCAT - don't think so
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy) - increasingly interested in this
HorrorCAT - probably not
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - um, no
BingoCAT (or make this its own thing) - let's vote, but I think I'll vote no as a CAT, maybe yes as a DOG
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?) - regular? probably, automatic? no, let's make it survive the vote each year
AwardsCAT - maybe, but would like a different set up than we had in 2013
AlphaCAT - no
GeoCAT - yes

BioCAT - No, it's part of history already.
HistoryCAT - Yes.
Bio/HistoryCAT - The name is "HistoryCAT."
GenreCAT - Nope.
PoetryCAT - Nope.
ShakespeareCAT - Nope. Maybe as a KIT.
CoverCAT - Nope.
SFFCAT - I don't hate it, but would really rather not.
HorrorCAT - Yes.
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - Nope.
BingoCAT - Already decided to be separate.
RandomCAT - Yes.
AwardsCAT - Eh. It's been done, I'd rather see it wait longer before returning.
AlphaCAT - No.
ListCAT - No.
GeoCAT - No. We just did this. Give it time.

Edited to add the extra ideas:

Foreign(translated)CAT - Yes.
WomenCAT - Maybe. Dependent upon theme ideas, and how much they coincide with my reading.
NonfictionCAT - Maybe. Dependent upon theme ideas.

Alright, I'll do one too...

BioCAT - I read very few biographies and so this wouldn't work for me.
HistoryCAT- Yes. As long as that includes both fiction and non-fiction.
Bio/HistoryCAT - It'd just be history for me, and anyone who wants to read a biography could do that with just a "HistoryCAT", no?
GenreCAT (with all the variations) - I'm on the fence. I probably wouldn't take part much.
PoetryCAT - I love poetry, but I don't think it'd work out for a whole year.
ShakespeareCAT - Same thing as with the poetry. I love Billy Shakers, and I'll probably include him in my own challenge, but not every month of the year.
CoverCAT - No. I just don't like when challenges are centered around something arbitrary. I prefer when there's a connection in the material itself.
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy) - On the fence. It's a category I read a lot in but not sure I'd want a whole CAT for it.
HorrorCAT - Maybe. I do have a lot of books that I want to read that works.
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - Yes. This is broader so could work for a whole year. It gives people more choice.
BingoCAT (or make this its own thing) Absolutely. But have it be its own thing.
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?) - Yes. I like the combination of consistency and change that RandomCAT brings.
AwardsCAT - I wouldn't mind this at all but as someone else said, maybe wait another year. And make sure the awards are chosen wisely.
AlphaCAT - Not for me. I thought I'd like it when we had it last year but it didn't work out. Like the covers, it's too arbitrary for me.

>24 PawsforThought: I just love how in sync we are about, like, everything. Lol. Soooo agreed re: arbitrary.

>25 .Monkey.: I'm just shocked I agree with anyone at all! I'm usually the lone dissident voice. :)

Me too! The lone voices have found each other at long last! Bahaha xD

My thoughts:

BioCAT - Maybe
HistoryCAT- Maybe, as long as it includes both fiction and non-fiction.
Bio/HistoryCAT - Yes, as long as it includes both fiction and non-fiction.
GenreCAT (with all the variations) - No
PoetryCAT - No.
ShakespeareCAT - No
CoverCAT - No.
SFFCAT - No
HorrorCAT - Definite No
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - No
BingoDOG - Definite Yes
RandomCAT - Definite Yes
AwardsCAT/ListCAT - Definite Yes
GeoCAT - Yes

#27 by @PolymathicMonkey> Another loner here.

SpecCAT: definitely!
BioCAT: no interest at all
P&P and Shakespeare : not really
BingoCAT: YES! But probably would work better as a side DOG
RandomCAT: love it
AwardsCAT: I'm not really interested in whether books earn an award.
AlphaCAT: It worked fine as a KIT this year, and I'll run it again that way for those who like it to weed out their ROOTS
ListCAT: like it much better than an AwardsCAT

Toward the beginning of discussion I suggested a GenreBenderCAT but that could work as part of a SpecCAT

>29 majkia: Yay loners! :P

You seem to have left a few out of your list: history, genre, cover, horror. Did you have no opinions on those, or...?

#30 by @PolymathicMonkey>

Yeah, true.

HistoryCAT: that's a yes, so long as it includes fiction.

HorrorCAT: I'd say that would be included in SpecCAT. I don't read much horror although a few GenreBenders I read have elements of horror.

CoverCAT: I could live with it, but I'd prefer that as part of BingoDOG

GenreCAT: yes, especially with GenreBenders in mind.

>1 RidgewayGirl: Oooh! Thank you! Just what I needed! :-)

Cheers! ***Takes a long sip*** Now that I'm refreshed...

Likelihood that I will participate in each of the categories if selected (favorites starred):
BioCAT - YES
HistoryCAT - YES
Bio/HistoryCAT - YES
GenreCAT - MAYBE (Still not really sure what this would entail)
PoetryCAT - NO (Outside of epic poetry and Shakespearean sonnets, poetry is a Herculean struggle on par with Umberto Eco for me :-/)
ShakespeareCAT - YES
CoverCAT - NO (A few years ago, DH decided to re-organize the main library shelves at our home and he did so by organizing all the books by size. That was as close to a divorce as we ever got: I couldn't find anything, and he seemed genuinely perplexed that I couldn't remember the size of the book I wanted to pull from the stacks. To help him understand, I re-organized all his CDs by color. Aha! Comprehension dawned and order was restored to our respective collections! My point is that my brain simply doesn't recognize color and size when it comes to books, and it would take me ages and ages to find a book from our shelves that might qualify for any given month!)
SFFCAT - YES
HorrorCAT - MAYBE (but probably would)
P&PCAT - NO (I love reading and attending plays; but the poetry component is a deal-breaker)
BingoCAT - YES (as its own thing -> BingoDOG)
RandomCAT - MAYBE (but probably not)
AwardsCAT - MAYBE (but probably not)
AlphaCAT - NO

ETA
WomenCAT - NO (This is just a personal, admittedly knee-jerk response on my part. I feel like I've been battered by the feminist literati enough in the past year or so :-/)
Non-FictionCAT - NO (A bit too vague for me to even commit to even on a non-binding basis)
GeoCAT - MAYBE (If different parameters were set)
ForeignCAT - NO (I've dipped my toes in bodies of translated works before and found myself too often frustrated with a kludge of passages that don't ring true to the lyricism of the original. Finding the really good translators is difficult, and really beyond my ken and patience.)
ListCAT - MAYBE (dependent on the list(s) itself/themselves)
HomeCAT - NO (It's actually an interesting idea; but I find it more appealing as a personal category rather than an official CAT.)

My preferences:

BioCAT - no, would rather do bios as part of HistoryCAT
HistoryCAT - yes
Bio/HistoryCAT (name to come?) - yes
GenreCAT (with all the variations) - yes
PoetryCAT - might participate occasionally
ShakespeareCAT - yes, but maybe better as a KIT
CoverCAT - no
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy) - yes!
HorrorCAT - yes
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - yes
BingoCAT (or make this its own thing) - make this a separate thing
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?) - yes, but let's make the decision about it year-to-year
AwardsCAT - yes!
AlphaCAT - no

BioCAT
HistoryCAT
Bio/HistoryCAT (name to come?) yes
GenreCAT (with all the variations) no
PoetryCAT no
ShakespeareCAT no, much too specific
CoverCAT no
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy) probably not
HorrorCAT no
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) no
BingoCAT (or make this its own thing) maybe
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?) probably not
AwardsCAT no
AlphaCAT no

Kay:You are the best! I think the snacks and beverages are all gone but I'm enjoying my morning coffee.

Here are my preliminary thoughts:

History/Bio Cat :whether combined or separate, Yes.
Genre Cat: Maybe?
Poetry Cat: Definitely No
Shakespeare Cat:No
CoverCat:No
SFFCAT: No
Horror Cat : Maybe
Poetry and Plays Cat: No
Bingo Cat: Maybe
Random Cat: Yes
Awards Cat:No
Alpha Cat:No

I think I forgot GEOCAT , Yes.

>34 MarthaJeanne: Since you seem to only favor one of these, did you have any other ideas?

At this point new ideas may be overlooked but might as well try, eh? Trying to think of anything else myself (since I also am not keen on most of the proposed things)--what about a ForeignCAT (TranslatedCAT?), where everything is from languages not originally English. Could be things like "written by a woman," "about subject X," "from X region of the world" and so forth. I'm not even sure how many I'd be able to do myself without needing to buy things (which is unlikely to happen), but it's something I try to work into my reading, maybe others want to also?

I'll throw out a couple of more ideas, just for consideration.

WomenCAT: all women authors, maybe with a monthly theme or genre.

NonfictionCAT: could be a bit too broad, but this would be a stretch category for me and I'm wanting to read more of it.

I think I'd probably only pick one CAT to do, plus Random or Bingo, but probably not both. I'm most attracted to history, sff and genre. I wouldn't do poetry, plays, Shakespeare, cover or bio. I might do awards, lists or horror depending on the monthly focuses.

My personal preferences:

From OP:
BioCAT: No as a separate CAT
HistoryCAT: Yes!
Bio/HistoryCAT: Yes!
GenreCAT (with all the variations): Yes!
PoetryCAT: No
ShakespeareCAT: No
CoverCAT: No
SFFCAT/SpecCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy): Yes. (Not my thing, but would like to try it more via CATs.)
HorrorCAT: No. At least not as a separate CAT. Maybe one month under SpecCAT?
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays): No
BingoCAT: No to a CAT; Yes to a sideDOG
RandomCAT: Yes. Loved this one in '14. (Or maybe skip a year since there are so many great ideas here.)
AwardsCAT: No opinion.
AlphaCAT: No.

From further discussion:
GeoCAT: Yes. Loved this one in '14. (Or skip a year.)
ListCAT: Yes
ForeignCAT (TranslatedCAT)*: Not sure about this.
WomenCAT: Maybe *
NonfictionCAT: Yes. *

* From PolymathicMonkey (at 36) re: ForeignCAT: Could be things like "written by a woman," "about subject X," "from X region of the world" and so forth.
These kinds of things would also be good applied to WomenCAT or Nonfiction CAT.

Also agree with Zoe (at 12): ...CATS that are broadly unified around a content-based theme (e.g., historical or SFF, rather than just a group of 4 unrelated genres) but that are fairly inclusive and allow for different types of things within them (biography within historical, all the non-fantasy and non-science-fiction within speculative). . . . some of the more specific CAT suggestions could end up fitting as months within broader CATs, if they don't get chosen on their own. E.g., I could see Shakespeare within an Elizabethan or Renaissance month in historical; horror could go within SFF, etc.

I would like to see the nonfictionCAT, or, as was suggested last year, a quarterly non-fiction group read.

As to the others, I would do the HistoryCAT (including the History/Bio version) and maybe the SSFCAT.

>38 countrylife: Yes, those things could apply to various topics, but the idea is to read books written in languages other than English.

I really like the GeoCAT this year. I am doing that and the GastroKIT.

The minute you go for specific genres, you exclude people. Maybe something like that is useful for younger people, but, for example, if several decades of living first with my parents, then with my husband, all of whom devour mysteries haven't gotten me to be willing to read them, I'm certainly not going to start now. That goes double for horror. Even Science fiction and fantasy, that I do read, I'm picky about.

Foreign CAT? Neither you or I live in the US, but I read a lot more non-English than you do. I read a lot of German language books, and a lot of material translated into German from other languages. Searching that out is not really an issue for me. Although a GeoCAT with an emphasis on reading works of the people in the region might be interesting.

I'm doing a lot of group reads this year. (>22 sjmccreary: the quarterly biography reads are in this group. I know, I set them up. The first quarter went quite well, I thought. I wasn't part of the second quarter. Several of us have read the third quarter book now, and serious discussion is planned for September. I'd like to see that continue next year.) That means that between the CAT and KIT, all the group reads, and the ER and MG wins, I'm probably averaging at least a book a week that I am reading because I 'should'. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy them, but is probably one of the reasons I am not very enthusiastic about tying myself down to things I wouldn't otherwise read.

HistoryCAT: Yes, with biographies included
GenreCAT: Maybe. it would probably be pretty easy to participate, but I'm not really excited about having just a collection of separate genres as a theme.
PoetryCAT: Maybe. I like some poetry, but I'm not sure how much I'd want to read, or how much I'd want to try other types.
ShakespeareCAT: No. This one is just too specific for me. I might participate a bit, but certainly not every month.
CoverCAT: No. Like PawsForThought and PolymathicMonkey, I prefer non-arbitrary connections.
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy): Yes. I think this one has the potential to encompass a broad variety of books while still maintaining a unified theme.
HorrorCAT: No. This one just seems too specific to me. I'd probably participate a bit, but not every month.
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays): Maybe. This one would be a stretch for me, but that's a good thing. On the other hand, I prefer to see plays performed rather than reading them.
BingoDOG (or make this its own thing): Yes, as its own thing.
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?): Yes, even though I'm not super excited about it myself. I think it works well for the non-planners, and it's easy enough for other people to participate.
AwardsCAT: Later. I don't see a need to repeat CATs yet (other than RandomCAT, which is a different story).
AlphaKIT: This seemed to work well as a KIT, so I don't see a need to change. Again, I'd rather have a couple of new main CATs.

WomenCAT: Maybe. This would depend completely on the monthly categories chosen. I'd imagine that I could participate a bit, but I'm not sure I'd make it a priority throughout the year.
Non-FictionCAT: Yes. Maybe this would help with my Dewey Decimal Challenge :)
GeoCAT: Later. I love this one, but I prefer to wait a while before repeating non-random CATs.
ForeignCAT: Maybe. I'm also not sure how much I'd be able to do without buying/borrowing new books, and ones that I wouldn't otherwise choose, so I'd probably participate only partially in this one.
ListCAT: Yes. I do love lists. I'm not quite as excited about this one as about the ones with a stronger unifying theme, but I'd almost certainly participate.

Phew, I think that's everything.

>41 MarthaJeanne: That makes sense. Although I wish people (in general) wouldn't be so quick to dismiss horror, as it includes Gothic works even if nothing else appeals, which has subgenres of Victorian Gothic (e.g. E. A. Poe, Wuthering Heights), parody (e.g. Northanger Abbey), pulp (e.g. Lovecraft), Southern Gothic (e.g. Faulkner, Eudora Welty), contemporary (e.g. Joyce Carol Oates)... Something for all, I'd say.

But yes, I agree, that's why I am anti-genre for the challenge. I wasn't so much suggesting horror than simply replying to someone else that it was broad enough to work as well as any of the others and would be something *I* would actually like (as opposed to every other genre idea, be it all-encompassing or select ones), and thought aloud about planning it for myself, or a KIT if a few people were interested. Not that I'd object if it were an "authentic" one, of course, but that wasn't the idea.

I'd love to read more non-English, but since it's the only language I can actually read, I'm quite limited. The library here doesn't do translated works into English, at all, even the classics. If something is foreign, it's translated into Dutch only. So I'm limited to what I randomly find in 2ndhand shops and classics I can find for cheap. I still think it'd be a nice category, though, and I'd like to see more people, in general, branching out that way, as I think many English speakers don't. (Not because they have something against doing so, but because those things tend to require more searching out, unless they've hit some best seller/award list, and because people get set in their habits.)

>43 .Monkey.: Can you give some more examples of potential horror sub-genres? That might help people in seeing how much they'd be likely to participate. I can imagine that I'd read a Gothic novel, a classic along the lines of Dracula or Frankenstein, maybe something that's not really horror but involves vampires or other supernatural beings.... But that's about the extent of it. What other monthly themes would you suggest?

I like the idea of a ForeignCAT but for me personally, a lot of the books I read already fit that category. It's not something I need to explore more, really. (I can see how it'd be more of an issue to people in or from English-speaking countries.)
At least two of the categories in my own challenge for next year will include books not originally written in English, so I'm set either way.

I'm honestly not sure how much I'll participate in the CATs, but I'm getting lots of good ideas for my personal categories! Shakespeare, books in translation, horror/gothic - fun and thanks for the ideas!

It's true that doing a genre-based CAT will exclude people, but any choice of CAT will exclude people not interested in that topic or the structure of that challenge. I don't care for an AlphaCAT, so if that's chosen, it would exclude me, but I can live with that. Also, some genres encompass a great variety. I often claim that "I don't read romance," but at the same time, I've greatly enjoyed books like Pride and Prejudice and The Fault of Our Stars, that could arguably be called romance.

I think it's more important that we choose CATs that can attract enough interest to make them viable, whether they're "exclusionary" or not. Also, it's important to choose a group of CATs (a clowder??) that are different enough in nature, so that at least one might appeal to each member of our group. To me, that is the meaning of "inclusive".

I also worry that some see these CATs as an all-or-nothing activity. There are many ways to participate: do the challenge every month, do the challenge the occasional month, don't do the challenge at all but participate in the discussion (e.g. by recommending books you've read before that are relevant to the topic), or just browse the threads to get ideas.

Anyhow, I'm just trying to say, in a rather long-winded way, that not every CAT has to satisfy everybody. :)

>26 PawsforThought: & >27 .Monkey.: I often enjoy your dissenting voices. It's a learning opportunity for me.

>41 MarthaJeanne: I hope you continue this next year if it doesn't become a category.

I like

Alpha
Horror
SFF
Geo
Random

I'm pretty flexible. Whatever the majority wants. This year I have been faithful to my CATS but I may not be so structured next year. Once it narrows down further I'll vote. :)

>47 mathgirl40: Agreed :)

>44 _Zoe_: Well, aside of all the Gothic subgenres listed above, which encompass a huge range of things—plenty of which isn't what someone typically thinks of with "horror" (Jane Austen? Horror? heh)—there's also the various "regular" sorts: the "altered humans" i.e. vamps zombies & were-animals, supernatural (monsters & demons, witches, etc), ghost stories, "slasher" (serial killer-esque stuff), there's those with a light-hearted comedic style (Koontz's first few Odd Thomas books, for example), there's psychological (a good bit of King, things like House of Leaves, etc), there's always the options for short stories (My Favorite Horror Story is the best collection of any short stories I've ever read, Roald Dahl wrote some, etc), and for "foreign" horror (i.e. not English)...

>47 mathgirl40: I don't think anyone sees the CATs as all-or-nothing. It's a fun thing and I think most of us want to participate as much as possible.

>50 .Monkey.: Thanks! That's helpful. I can see a lot of potential for blurring the lines there with genres like urban fantasy. I still don't think horror would be my first pick, but I can now imagine participating in half of the months rather than only a quarter :)

>51 _Zoe_: Indeed, there's tons of blurred lines when it comes to horror! :)

#43 by @PolymathicMonkey> If you did a horror KIT I'd try to particpate. I'm not crazy about gory horror but do like the psychological kind and especially like books like London Falling and Sandman Slim.

It looks like there's a lot more people than I anticipated who are either interested or on the fence about it, so I'd totally do it as a KIT. :)

>43 .Monkey.: I didn't like Wuthering Heights, Northanger Abbey I can't get through, although I love the rest of Austen, ... Feminist Theology I will force my way through because even though I usually don't enjoy it, I get something out of it. All I get out of horror is nightmares.

>47 mathgirl40: Yes, I know, and I'll be pleased to do one CAT if there is one that appeals to me. I probably don't want to do more that that.

If we are looking for three, it actually makes sense for one of them to be rather open. AlphaCAT, coverCAT, ... something that is easy to fill a CATtrick with, (Alpha is a bit easier, as it is always clear that any copy of the book will fit, although I did settle last year for one where I could only get it in German, so the title of my copy did not fit.)

How about a HomeCAT? Pick your home city or area, either where you come from or where you now live or even a place you would like to live, and learn more about it. Maybe start with a history, then local author, phototography book, guide book, cookbook or other book about local food, a biography about someone local, a book about the city/region by a travellor from somewhere else ... the big disadvantage would be that our choices of books won't help others, on the other hand, if you choose your present location, libraries and bookstores should have enough material.

>48 luvamystery65: I want to do it again, but was planning on starting planning in a few months.

I've "Yessed" 5 categories but would probably participate in 3 max.

BioCAT - Maybe
HistoryCAT - Maybe
Bio/HistoryCAT - Yes
GenreCAT (with all the variations) - No
PoetryCAT - No
ShakespeareCAT - Maybe, but unlikely that I would read Shakespeare every month
CoverCAT - No
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy) - No
HorrorCAT - No
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - No
BingoCAT (or make this its own thing) - Yes
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?) - Yes
AwardsCAT - Yes, if reorganized
AlphaCAT - No
GeoCAT - Yes

From OP:

BioCAT: no, I'd rather it be possible to read biographies in the historyCAT for those that want to.
HistoryCAT: yes, as long as it contains both fiction and non-fiction options
Bio/HistoryCAT (name to come?): yes, the best of borht bioCAT and historyCAT, but with the caveat that fiction is allowed as well.
GenreCAT (with all the variations): maybe
PoetryCAT: no
ShakespeareCAT: no
CoverCAT: no
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy): maybe. It could be interesting, but some of the genres/themes I can see popping up would not appeal to me (dystopian, apocalyptic) so I'd have to skip months.
HorrorCAT: no
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays): no
BingoCAT (or make this its own thing): no to it as a CAT, yes to it as its own thing.
RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?): maybe. The randomness is fun, but I like planning ahead so often times it gets 'forgotten' or the book I'd planned to read is on the bottom of the pile for that month, due to late addition, and I never get around to it.
AwardsCAT: no
AlphaCAT: maybe. I like reading letters, but with more structure than this time - maybe having it be only for author last name (or first name) or starting letter of the title. Not so much 'everything goes' as this year's KIT, because that took the challenge and thus fun out of it for me.

Other suggestions:

WomenCAT: maybe. Depends entirely on what the monthly themes are
Non-FictionCAT: no.
GeoCAT: no, I already participate in the global reading group and that's enough for me.
ForeignCAT: no
ListCAT: maybe, it would completely depend on the lists and if there are books on the list I want to read.

>41 MarthaJeanne: - thanks for the correction. I knew it was you who first set up the quarterly bio group reads, I just had you in the wrong group. Sorry about that!

Some thoughts about genre CATs in general: Even though I love reading mysteries, I was apprehensive about doing a MysteryCAT this year. But I think it worked out pretty well, and I've read - and enjoyed - subgenres that I normally avoid.

I don't normally read science fiction/fantasy/etc. I enjoy a good time travel now and again, but I don't really know about the other subgenres. I'd be willing to use the monthly CAT themes as a way to try some new stuff in a safe environment, as it were. Make it appealling to "outsiders". I think the planning for MysteryCAT must have been a huge turn-off for non-mystery readers, everyone arguing for their favorite little slice of the genre. Talk it up, make it open and inviting - entice me.

Likewise, I will turn my nose right up at the mention of horror, but explain to me what subgenres might be included and give me some examples of what they would look like. Sell it to me - you might win me over.

The other suggestion of doing a genreCAT that includes several different genres, for just a few months each, throughout the year could also work if it were made up of genres that aren't broad enough to have 12 different, easily accessible, subgenres. I'm not opposed to this idea.

Other thoughts: ForeignCAT? How is this different from GeoCAT? Just limited to works not written in English - only books in translation? What would monthly themes look like? Authors writing in different languages? Authors from different parts of the world? And what about the ESL people in the group, must they forego books written in their native language? Even if they read them in English?

ListCAT - I do like this as an alternative to AwardsCAT. Are there 12 good lists? How about 6 lists and then repeat?

WomenCAT (needs a different name) - I'm willing to make a point of reading female authors, but how would 12 monthly themes be defined?

ETA - >32 Tanya-dogearedcopy: Love the cover story!

>58 sjmccreary: For lists, I think you would need a large variety of lists so that you would have at least two to choose from each month like we did for Awards last year.

I think I've added all the suggestions to the master list up in post one, but yell at me if I missed one.

Excellent discussion. I find myself changing my mind.

#60 I don't see GeoCAT on the list

>58 sjmccreary: I already gave plenty of examples re: horror, in two different posts above (>43 .Monkey.: & >50 .Monkey.:), as well as some examples of themes re: foreign in the post where I proposed it. I don't think it's going to go anywhere, so I don't really see the point in making concrete plans when that's not even been done for the most popular ideas yet. That said, the geoCAT was books that were about regions, they didn't have to have come from there. The point of this idea was to read authors from different places in the world, whose writing is not English (the popular language of books today). I don't know where the idea that people can't read books of their non-English-speaking location would have come from. However, if they regularly read books that come from their country, that would somewhat defeat the purpose to read them for the challenge, as it's meant to broaden horizons and read from other places.

I've noticed references to various group reads of which I am unaware. I don't want to hijack this topic, but I would ask that if any of you coordinate these groups and want new members, please let me know. Thanks!

I have some ideas off the top of my head for a WomanAuthorsCAT. These are very rough but just to show it might be able to be done.

Classics by Women
Modern Novels by Women
Bailey's Prize Winners or nominees (formerly Orange Prize)
Other Prize Winners (Nobel, Pulitzer, etc.)
Regional reading (Middle Eastern women authors, Asian, African, etc)
African-American Women Authors
Children's Book Favorites
Feminist Literature
Biographies of Women
Autobiographies by Women
Genre Reading (mysteries by women, SciFi by women, Poetry, etc.)

I think it might be fun!

For a WomenAuthorsCAT it could be organized in a couple of ways. One obvious way is to read different genres but limited to books written by women.

A possibly more interesting way would be to pick themes and read books by women that address that theme. Examples of themes off the top of my head might be Family, Marriage, War, Religion, Wealth, Coming of Age, Journey, Survival, Revenge. This might be more interesting than genres but also make it harder to pick books.

A third way to structure it might be through the lens of culture and identity. For example: Jewish, Lesbian, African-American, Chinese or Chinese-American, Hispanic, Native American, etc.

I'm not overly advocating for this one -- I'm planning to focus on women's writing no matter what -- but it might be easier to vote on it if it was a bit more defined than just books by women.

ETA I also like the idea in >64 japaul22: for this CAT, which is a little of everything. (We cross-posted.)

Also, how serious is the voting that's taking place now? I'm not quite ready to rule anything in or out yet, but I don't want to miss the boat on voting and have a category excluded that I might be interested in.

>65 sturlington: I like your ideas too.

I'm not overly advocating for this one -- I'm planning to focus on women's writing no matter what -- but it might be easier to vote on it if it was a bit more defined than just books by women.

And agreed on this. I read lots women's writing anyway, but I think that having some suggestions of how it could work could help everyone decide yes or no for themselves.

>64 japaul22: I like your ideas. I think I counted 11, so we'd need one more (maybe Lesbian). BTW, I'd want to call it the SheCAT.

>61 sjmccreary: Well, the popular ideas don't need as much help in winning support, do they? If you like your idea then sell it, that's all I'm saying.

The idea about different rules for non-English speakers came from my own mind - I was sharing thoughts, asking questions, trying to stimulate some discussion.

So, getting back to the topic at hand, ForeignCAT is for books that are from a particular location. Now what is your thought about when an ex-pat living in a certain location writes a book which is from and about that location, but does the writing in their native English? What do you think?

As you said, it defeats the purpose for Swedes to read the same Swedish books as the rest of us, as an example. Especially if they're reading in the original Swedish. But what if our Swede reads a Swedish book in English (or some other language) translation? What about a Swede reading an American book in Swedish translation? Discuss.

>66 japaul22: We're not voting yet, we're still discussing. The voting will be announced and polls will be set up for each of the "nominations". If you're checking here regularly, it will be hard to miss.

I see extra suggestions to comment on:

Foreign(translated)CAT - Probably not.
WomenCAT - I would likely do this.
NonfictionCAT - Yes

ETA:
ListCAT - probably; like this better than AwardCAT
GeoCAT - am enjoying it this year, but probably best to wait longer before bringing it back.

>68 LoisB: SheCAT is a much better name than WomenCAT!

>64 japaul22:
>65 sturlington: I like these suggested theme structures - I think this could be a very interesting CAT

>46 japaul22: This discussion is very fruitful for my challenge too! I've got tons of ideas for next years reading.

>48 luvamystery65: Thank you. That's nice to hear.

>55 MarthaJeanne: HomeCAT is a nice idea (I know similar things have been up for TIOLI challenges in the 75ers group) but it's one I'd definitely sit out of. Not only do I come from a very small town so in order to even find something to read I'd have to expand it to include a very large region, but I also don't think I'd want to read about my home town even if I could! :P
Though the idea of making it about somewhere you'd WANT to live is interesting to me, at least. DreamCAT? Or something. I can definitely think of a few things to read there. It's a bit similar to GeoCAT, but a personal version of it.

>68 LoisB: My naughty little head wants to call it a PussyCAT. Or, if you're not into naughtiness: CATWoman.

>69 sjmccreary: Well, speaking as a Swede... I'd never read a Swedish book in an English translation if I could possibly avoid it. I always try to read in the original language if that's possible for me (if it's a language I can understand). And reading an American book in Swedish? Well, that's about 60% of my current reading...

>73 PawsforThought: Ooh, I like CATWoman. Then we could have CATastrophe, dealing with disasters, CATalog for lists, etc. I better stop now . . .

I occasionally end up reading English language books in German translation because of availability, but if I really want to read the book, I buy it. It really jars badly. If you can read AND get the book in the original, do so.

how about a Bechdel test CAT. Could we find enough books in enough genres to make it work.

For those who don't know the test: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

>58 sjmccreary: AlphaCAT: maybe. I like reading letters, but with more structure than this time - maybe having it be only for author last name (or first name) or starting letter of the title. Not so much 'everything goes' as this year's KIT, because that took the challenge and thus fun out of it for me.

I think you can structure it your way for yourself. I only joined here in January, so for January, I was much more "loose" about it and did read something where any word in the title fit. BUT, after that, I've made it so the first word has to fit OR the first or last letter in the author's name, mostly I think I've used last name.

>73 PawsforThought: Right - so in an effort to make the CATs inclusive, how would a ForeignCAT be organized in order to accomodate all of us? (I didn't realize you are Swedish, I hope you didn't take offense at my example.)

And I agree that HomeCAT has some interesting possibilities - especially if it is places you WANT to go, or perhaps places you've lived in or visited in the past.

CATWoman is another good suggestion for a title.

You're revealing both our ages by implying that PussyCAT is naughty. When I was a girl, that was a common way of referring to felines - especially in books - it was mostly the older folks who would actually talk like that, including my grandma. (Of course, that was back when "gay" meant carefree and happy, and nothing else - times sure have changed, haven't they?)

I like the different ideas for a WomenCAT/SheCAT or whatever it would be called.

I haven't had a category for genealogy/family history in my challenge for a couple of years, and however I end up structuring my challenge, it's one I want to include. I know there are a few other category challengers with an interest in genealogy/family history. Maybe there would be enough interest to try a Family Kit. Monthly themes could be topics like occupations, military service/wars, religious history (any Quakers, Huguenots, or circuit riding preachers in your family tree?), immigration, DNA, local history, pets (yes, they're part of the family!), clothing/dress, photography.

I've enjoyed the quarterly biography reads so far this year. I participated in the first two, and I have the third quarter's book checked out from the library ready to start after I finish my current non-fiction read. A monthly BioCAT would be too much for me, though.

I'm like >41 MarthaJeanne: when it comes to horror. I'm old enough to be certain that it will never appeal to me. I could probably find one gothic novel to fill a slot on a BingoDOG card. I rarely read science fiction, but I'd be willing to try a few of the subgenres. I'm not interested enough to vote in favor of it, but if it's selected, I would likely participate in some months.

>68 LoisB: I love the name SheCAT!

>79 cbl_tn: Family history and genealogy could probably also fit in HistoryCAT, either topically, geographically, or by time period.

For that matter, so could HomeCAT. State and local history, urban history, all those county histories from the 1870s, etc.

ETA: On one of the other threads, I mentioned a "catalog of history" project I did once. I can't find the original project, but here's a link to part of it that I'd put online: https://sites.google.com/site/encyclopediaofreading/history-sliced-and-diced. It's heavy on US and British history because that's what I know. It's also very incomplete, because like I said, I can't find the original, and it was never more than a proof of concept for a catalog of history anyway. I think the Topics in History page is particularly relevant, because history includes everything.

>79 cbl_tn: I'm with you on the horror & SciFi stuff.

>78 sjmccreary: And I agree that HomeCAT has some interesting possibilities - especially if it is places you WANT to go, or perhaps places you've lived in or visited in the past.

Ok, instead of calling it HomeCAT in this instance, what about a TravelCAT? I suppose that could be too much like GeoCAT?

>78 sjmccreary: I don't know. I'm not terribly interested in a ForeignCAT, for that very reason. And I'm not offended, just amused. :)

And I might be showing my age, but I think I'm probably mostly showing my dirty mind.

>79 cbl_tn: I like your FamilyCAT idea! (Or KIT)

>84 PawsforThought: LOL!

>73 PawsforThought: PawsforThought: DreamCAT has an interesting ring to it. It wouldn't have to be just a place you would like to live, though. You could expand it into twelve months of 'dreams'.

A place you'd like to live that exists
A place you'd like to live that doesn't exist
A time period you'd like to visit/live in
A book with a character you'd like to be
A book with a character you wish was real
Etc.

>87 Samantha_kathy: I like that idea.

>87 Samantha_kathy: How would you pick books to fit that? How would you know before selecting it that you'd fall in love with the character, or that it had a super developed world that you wish was real, etc? It'd be insanely hard to complete a challenge for one of those in a specific month without having read the book first.

>89 .Monkey.: That's an excellent point.

The DreamCAT concept might actually work better as a category in someone's challenge - or as a square on the Bingo card. It does sound nice, though - place I'd like to live, person I'd like to be, event I wish was real....

Right, those sort of things would work for non-timelined stuff.

#87 by @Samantha_kathy> Oh I really like that idea. I can see it working. You know characters in series you're reading for instance, places too.

So it would be series-only, and only #s 2+ in series? Plus many series don't take place in the same location each time, introduce different characters, etc. I do not see it as feasible for a monthly choose-before-reading thing.

>63 LoisB:
The group reads picks for 2015 haven't started yet - there'll be a different thread set up for that discussion.

ETA: And, of course, all are invited to join in!

#93 by @PolymathicMonkey> well, you can use CK to figure out where novels take place, so not only series. granted some series jump all over the place for location (I'm looking at YOU Steven Erickson), but others stay fairly local.

As for places I want to be, that would let me use nearly any off world book :)

I was quite keen to join the CATs last year, but I quickly discovered that I'm far to much of a mood reader to wish to tie myself down to reading books in a particular month. Whilst I quite like reading mysteries, I found having to try and find a book that fitted a particular category of mysteries for a particular month simply didn't sit well with my reading style. So I will not be joining again.

Having said that, I have enjoyed the biography reads, as organised by MarthaJeanne. And I'd like to partake of those again, when/if it comes around.

>89 .Monkey.: Very good point. It's pretty much impossible to know you'd like a fictional place before you've read the book. It'd work for real-life places, but then that would cut out several months out of the CAT year.

Well, they were just ideas. I'm sure brainstorming can come up with categories that are doable without a series. Things that are often in the blurb of the book, so you'd know in advance: time period, place, a certain type of setting (rural, small town, big city), continent, profession of main character. A different kind of dream could be a cover that shows a place you'd like to visit. You know, those covers that show a gorgeous house or garden or room... Or a theme like 'classic you'd like to be a main character in' (sense and sensibility for me, but I'm sure others would pick a different book), because classics are often re-reads or the storyline is known. Also, it's okay for some months to have a theme that needs familiarity with the book, so a series read or a re-read is encouraged. It gives it a kind of mixed bag.

In 2014 we started a wiki for group reads so that members of the Category Challenge and and 75 group could join together and read books. I hope we'll do it again in 2015.

Some of these new ideas would work well to make a History/BioCAT more than just a list of time periods. So one could be "choose a book of local history", so a bio of a local hero, a historical fiction set in your region or a guidebook to a local historical landmark would all work. Same with FamilyCAT, DreamCAT or TravelCAT. One month could be reading a book by a writer writing in a language other than English, or read a novel in translation.

On the subject of voting. I'll put up a few administrative votes tonight, and leave the votes open until the 14th. I'll count the votes the morning of the 15th, but since I'm in Munich, that's pretty much midnight of the 14th for those of you on the east coast of the US. Votes will stay up so long because of vacations. After those votes are counted, we'll put together a vote on which CATs. I'll get your ideas on how to put that vote together when it gets closer.

For the past two years, there have been three CATs. Should that number remain? Should we have more CATs because more people are participating, or fewer to concentrate our interest?

A bingo card challenge has been suggested and received with enthusiasm, but there has been talk of making it a separate optional fun challenge because it isn't a monthly challenge.

And the RandomCAT has been a part of each year of the CATs. Should it continue on as a regular CAT or should it be retired?

Are there any other preliminary questions to get out of the way?

I thought I would show what a possible group of 12 lists might consist of;
1. New York Times 100 best books of all times
2. Oprah's Bookclub List
3. Modern Library
4. ALA notable books
5. Top 100 Banned/Challeged Novels of the 20th Century
6. BBC Big Read
7. 1001 Books You Must Read Before You Die
8. NPR--Top 100 Science Fiction
9. All-Time 100 Novels
10. Guardian Top 100 Novels
11. Guardian The 100 Greatest Non-Fiction
12. Persnickety Snark: Top 100 YA Novels

With regard to CATwoman, I think we could consider women authors from your home country as well, or maybe in place of the African-American women authors.

This CAT is probably my favourite of all those suggested. I really like the randomCAT too, as I am not a big planner and I like to read a book while I am excited about it.

I like the list idea too.

weighing in on the more recent suggestions
ForeignCAT yes, could do
WomenCAT yes, seems it would have possibility
Non-FictionCAT, not sure I would want to read a year of nonfiction, so no
HomeCAT, no
GeoCAT,I could see this being done different so that it could be done again, such as authors from......
FamilyCAT no
DreamCAT could have some possibility, but my first response is no
TravelCAT would be okay but then would recommend that GeoCat not be done.

BioCAT - maybe, but I prefer it combined with History
HistoryCAT - yes, but I prefer it combined with Bio
Bio/HistoryCAT (name to come?) - yes
GenreCAT (with all the variations) - no
PoetryCAT - probably not for the entire year
ShakespeareCAT - yes
CoverCAT - no
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy) - absolutely not
HorrorCAT - absolutely not
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - maybe
BingoCAT - make it separate
RandomCAT - tired of this one for now
AwardsCAT - maybe, but better lineup than the last time
AlphaCAT - no
GeoCAT - probably ought to give it a rest this year although I like it
ForeignCAT - maybe
WomenCAT - maybe
Non-FictionCAT - maybe - it depends on how it comes together
FamilyCAT - maybe
DreamCAT - no
TravelCAT - maybe

>109 Roro8: It could be turned into a "minority women" category if that doesn't already exist.

BioCAT – NO, it can be part of HistoryCAT
HistoryCAT - YES, I would like if it could be both fiction and non-fiction
Bio/HistoryCAT (name to come?) – NO, redundant see above
GenreCAT (with all the variations) – MAYBE, on the fence on this one, need to think about it …
PoetryCAT – NO, I regularly mean to read poetry but I doubt that I would read more than on in a year, if at all
ShakespeareCAT – NO, I think it’s too narrow in focus for a CAT but definitely as a KIT. I like the initial proposition of Tanya-dogearedcopy about fiction by the bard and non-fiction about the Bard/his work.
CoverCAT – NO, too random for me
SFFCAT (science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy) – NO, I feel like the theme is a little bit too broad perhaps … Thanks casvelyn for the definition :)
HorrorCAT - YES, PolymathicMonkey could you please do it as a KIT if not picked? I’m rather interested by the subgenre that you suggested so far :)
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) – no for reasons mentioned for the PoetryCAT
BingoCAT – NO, but definitely as a DOG. That’s a great idea; it would be a little bit like a RandomCAT in content or possibilities but with the added bonus of doing it whenever I want in the year as I’m a moody reader :)
RandomCAT – NO, see above reasons for BingoCAT
AwardsCAT – NO, it was not working for me last year
AlphaCAT – NO, no theme-oriented …
GeoCAT – NO, maybe next year? There are some other great suggestions for next year.
ForeignCAT – NO, a great part of what I’m reading is already translated and I’m not versed enough in what make a good translation to be critic about it. I can feel that something is off about a book or that it’s coming about right while reading it but that’s about it …
WomenCAT – YES, I was not convinced by this one but there were great suggestions made both by japaul22 and sturlington. PawsforThought, I rather like the PussyCAT option :)
Non-FictionCAT – MAYBE, if suggestions are made, it could turned out to be great, like the WomenCAT. Unfortunately, I don’t have any idea at the moment …
FamilyCAT – NO, not really interested
DreamCAT – MAYBE, valid points have been made about the difficulties to implement but why not, Samantha_kathy had a great idea there :)
TravelCAT – MAYBE, on the fence on this one, need to think about it …

Also I second >48 luvamystery65: about enjoying your lively comments, PolymathicMonkey and PawsforThought. It made me rethink about subjects with a new perspective :)

Loving the discussion so far …

The CATwoman idea is grabbing me. I like it. And we could work in themes like "a woman in translation," "a local woman writer," etc...

One thing that made the MysteryCAT and GeoCAT so fun and easy for me was the ability to search for tags on LT and see the results already flagged for books in my collections. If we do a CAT based on the author's characteristics, rather than the books, is there a way to search the CK information for, say, female authors living in a certain place?

>107 RidgewayGirl: I'd like a clarification on the RandomCAT. As of right now, with 32 total votes, 20 people want the RandomCAT to conintue and 19 don't want it to be retired for 2015. A majority. But there is a significant minority that has NOT voted in support of the RandomCAT.

Up above, in the discussion and comments of all the different suggestions, there were several instances when someone would say something like, "it's already been decided" or "everyone already said they want it, except one or 2 people", referring to RandomCAT coming back for 2015. The poll in progress is showing that, while the RandomCAT has strong support, it is far from unanimous.

I think RandomCAT should be included in the voting, regardless of the expectation that it will win one of the 3 spots. We've already seen evidence that not everyone posts comments on here (or posts their true opinions) because, if they did, there'd only be 2 or 3 dissenting votes.

I voted undecided. The way it's done now the run-up is too short if I need to aquire something. Or I could have the perfect book - but read it last month. I would be a lot more enthusiastic if the theme was announced earlier. I did most of it last year, but decided it was too much hassle this year.

I voted undecided too. If we had both random and bingo cats, I probably wouldn't do both, and bingo is more appealing to me.

>116 sjmccreary: I'm wondering about that, too. Let's wait until the vote is final and then discuss what to do. I'm not inclined to declare this a win for the RandomCAT because, unlike the other two issues, the vote is not clearly for it. But by the end of the week, the question may have resolved itself.

If the proportions stay similar, though, would the easiest solution be to add RandomCAT to the list of ideas to vote on? Presumably, those who voted yes will do so later, and it will be a strong contender, without any hard feelings of it getting preferential treatment.

>119 RidgewayGirl: Yes, I think that it would be the best compromise for the RandomCAT. This way, it will win or not, fair and square.

>113 electrice: Heh, thanks :) and yes, I definitely will! :D

>119 RidgewayGirl: Yup, if it's not clearcut then it belongs in the vote with the rest.

>121 .Monkey.: Splendid :)

>119 RidgewayGirl: I'd like to see it included in the vote regardless of the outcome of this poll - as you said, just to avoid feelings of it getting preferential treatment.

>113 electrice: Thank you, I'm glad I'm not alone. :)

Also, I agree that RandomCAT should be up for voting with the others. If everyone had voted YES on it we wouldn't need to, but as it is, it needs a vote. This is a democracy, after all.

Which is why I like running a KIT. It isn't ;)

>125 majkia: ;-)

Interesting to see all the feedback on the possible CATs.

Sounds like the PoetryCAT will probably be out, but I would be happy to do a Poetry Corner thread, where anyone interested in sharing their latest poetry read are welcome to chime in, as well as with monthly book suggestions (possibly based on styles or themes).

>127 andreablythe: - Sounds good. I'll join you in the Poetry Corner.

I love that the discussion of the CATs has broadened into discussions of lots of side challenges, like Bingo and the Poetry Corner! We really love imposing structure on ourselves, it seems! :)

>129 christina_reads: If we didn't we probably wouldn't be in this challenge group.

>54 .Monkey.: Chiming in late to say that I took a look at my TBR/Wishlist and I could easily manage a Horror KIT, so I would likely participate. Hope that motivates you to host it. :-)

I am definitely taking part in the HorrorKIT if it happens (which seems likely considering the interest on this thread). I've got a few Poes and Lovecrafts that I want to get to, and I'm sure there are other books too, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

>128 VioletBramble: I'll definitely join you in the Poetry Corner. (Poets' Corner like in Westminister Abbey?) (Or maybe it'll be (Dead) Poets Society? In honour of Robin Williams?)

>131 sturlington: Don't worry, I am duly motivated! :D

I'd be up for most any of the challenges noted, with the exceptions of the Shakespeare and the Awards. Shakespeare I have to really be in the mood for, and the awardscat is the one challenge I started trying at some point that just didn't accommodate my going through the books already in my library.

I'm also in for anything horror, but I must have missed what KIT stands for...? I'm seeing it all over the thread, and maybe I'm just tired, but I'm not sure what it means. Either way, I'll be curious to see how things come out...

>134 whitewavedarling: I forget what the acronym itself was supposed to mean (I think that was figured out after the "word" was chosen, lol), but KITs are the unofficial CATs :)

>135 .Monkey.:, ah, good enough--thank you :)

>134 whitewavedarling: Like PM said, it's the nickname of the unofficial CATs. I think it was chosen because they're "small CATs", i. e. kittens so KITs. I haven't been involved with any of the KITs so never knew about the acronym having another "proper" name.

Yeah when it was decided to do them I think someone came up with something it could stand for, but that was really secondary to just being an "appropriate" word, lol.

Well, you learn something new every day.

>132 PawsforThought: - When I called the April RandomCAT thread Poetry Corner I took that name from The Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoons. Poets Corner and (Dead) Poets Society both have classier pedigrees. We could vote on a name - if there are enough of us participating.

>140 VioletBramble: I have no idea what Rocky and Bullwinkle is.
I don't mind what it's called, but we could definitely have a vote on it. :)

So, preliminary results and some further things to think about:

There will be three official CATs next year. There will be as many KITs and other side challenges as people are willing to set up and organize.

There will be a Category Challenge Bingo Card, but it will be separate from the CATs. I've set up a thread to plan for it's creation here:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/179222#

We'll need someone to head up the discussion and someone to make the actual card as well as plenty of people to come up with challenges to put in the spaces. All discussion on the topic now moves over to that thread.

The fate of the RandomCAT is less certain. While the people wanting to continue with it outnumbered the undecided and those voting against it by a 2:1 ratio, it wasn't unanimous. Do we want to vote on it with the rest of the possible CATs, or say that the margin was high enough to keep it? My personal feeling, as a big fan of the RandomCAT, is that it will win a spot easily enough in the regular contest. Does anyone feel differently?

Now it's time to fine tune the suggested CATs. Can a few be combined into a single stronger contender? Let's discuss that for a few days and see if we can come up with a set of CATs to vote on that's a bit smaller than the current field of 22.

I do think it will clearly win a spot, it's got a huge majority even if not unanimous, but it may as well go amongst the voting list just to make things "above board."

As for the others, it's already unanimous that Bio/History are one thing, so that drops it to 20. I think there were few enough yay votes on Shakespeare alone that it should just be considered part of Poetry/Plays, and the same goes for Poetry alone (anyone actually disagree there? besides, there's KITs for them otherwise). The Foreign idea was a flop, I'd say drop it. No one voted yes for Covers, so I'd say drop that. That's 16. A lot, but better than it was. So:

HistoryCAT (inclusive)
GenreCAT (with all the variations)
SFFCAT (scifi, spec, fantasy)
HorrorCAT
P&PCAT (Poetry & Plays)
RandomCAT
AwardsCAT
AlphaCAT
ListCAT
WomenCAT
Non-FictionCAT
HomeCAT
GeoCAT
FamilyCAT
DreamCAT
TravelCAT

The WomanCAT (or CATwoman) could incorporate the monthly themes of traveling women (books about women traveling or living somewhere foreign), dreaming women (a book by a woman living somewhere or doing something you've dreamt of), family women, local women (a book by a local female author or about a local woman), women of SFF and even award-winning women (a book that has won a literary award written by a woman).

Yes, personally I think it would be better if some of those later ones that had less support and seemed less feasible as year-long monthly things were dropped in favor of incorporating them into others instead.

>142 RidgewayGirl: I agree that even though RandomCAT has enough votes behind it to be a sure thing already, we might as well include it in the final voting. It doesn't harm anyone so why not?

>143 .Monkey.: Wholeheartedly agree with everything you wrote.

>144 RidgewayGirl: Yeah, those are all good ideas for CATwoman (hey, there could be a PussyCAT month with LGBT women! ;P)

Even though logically Shakespeare seems like a subset of Poetry and Plays, it actually looks like there was slightly more real interest in Shakespeare alone (and surprisingly few people were in favour of both).

I wonder whether there would be more support for something like a "Shakespeare and Plays" CAT that alternated months of Shakespeare with other plays.

Here are the comments from people who didn't just say no to both:

More in favour of Shakespeare than P&P

Kristelh:
ShakespeareCAT, I just bought a complete Shakespeare and set a personal goal to get more familiar with Shakespeare because it is the foundation for much of literature. So I am in favor of this.
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) no

sjmccreary:
ShakespeareCAT - interesting
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - um, no

Tanya-dogearedcopy:
ShakespeareCAT - YES
P&PCAT - NO (I love reading and attending plays; but the poetry component is a deal-breaker)

clue:
ShakespeareCAT - Maybe, but unlikely that I would read Shakespeare every month
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - No

thornton37814:
ShakespeareCAT - yes
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - maybe

More in favour of P&P than Shakespeare

cyderry:
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) definitely a possibility for me

PawsforThought:
ShakespeareCAT - Same thing as with the poetry. I love Billy Shakers, and I'll probably include him in my own challenge, but not every month of the year.
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - Yes. This is broader so could work for a whole year. It gives people more choice.

mathgirl40:
ShakespeareCAT - yes, but maybe better as a KIT
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays) - yes

_Zoe_:
ShakespeareCAT: No. This one is just too specific for me. I might participate a bit, but certainly not every month.
P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays): Maybe. This one would be a stretch for me, but that's a good thing. On the other hand, I prefer to see plays performed rather than reading them.

Even though I loved the AwardCAT and GeoCAT, I'd prefer that they be dropped from the list for next year, so that we can have brand new CATs. Last year, many liked the idea of rotating through the CATs, and I'd certainly like to do them again in a future year, but perhaps not so soon. Same goes for the AlphaCAT. I'm OK with keeping the RandomCAT because it will be, by its very nature, a different set of challenges next year.

>144 RidgewayGirl: >145 .Monkey.: I agree.

>147 _Zoe_: I think here it would depend so much on how the individual months were set up.

I could see something like

June is for lovers
Shakespeare - Romeo and Juliet
Or choose another play or book of poetry based on love.

July is for parents
Shakespeare - King Lear
Or another play or poetry based on the relationship of parents to their children.

If a month is specifically set for one of the three, I think a lot of people who like only one of the alternatives will drop out.

Also: I agree that many of the later suggestions are very unlikely to be chosen, but I don't see much benefit in actually excluding them from the voting unless they're so closely connected to another category that including them both would lead to vote-splitting.

>147 _Zoe_: I would be interested in a combination of P&P and Shakespeare. Maybe P&P alongside a year-long Shakespeare read? Or P&P with a special focus on Shakespeare for several of the months? Or 6 months of P&P followed by 6 months of Shakespeare?

>147 _Zoe_: Huh. Well if it's spread that thin they it sounds like they should all be KITs... It doesn't look like any of them would get enough support. My thought on combining was there might be enough interested that together it would have more of a shot.

>151 mathgirl40: I like the idea of it being a P&P with focus on Shakespeare. That way everyone sort of gets what they want. People who don't like Shakespeare don't have to read him but can still take part in the challenge, and people who prefer Shakespeare don't have to read anything else but, again, can still take part in the challenge.

Has anyone counted the number of YES and NO (and MAYBE) for all the suggested CATs? I haven't actually counted but just looked for general trends.

>149 MarthaJeanne: Yup, I agree that much would depend on the actual outline of months. I'd probably be more inclined toward focused months that would encourage more discussion, even if it meant that not everyone participated every month. For example:

Shakespeare: Tragedies
Shakespeare: Comedies
Shakespeare: Histories
Shakespeare: Sonnets
About Shakespeare: Biographies and History
Ancient Greek Plays
Modern European Plays
Modern North American Plays
Epic Poems?

>152 .Monkey.: Yeah, I agree that the category seems unlikely to win, whatever it is. But I can't help trying to figure out what would be most appealing, even if it doesn't actually accomplish anything. And I do think it has an outside chance.

I think MarthaJeanne's idea in >149 MarthaJeanne: is excellent, and maybe the best way to combine the different ideas.

If poetry isn't chosen, alone or part of a larger CAT, I'll bring up the idea of a Poetry thread in next year's challenge.

>154 _Zoe_: Sure, like I said, my "attempt" at combining was merely an attempt to combine those votes and give it a shot. It's something I have zero interest in personally and would definitely rather it not do well, but it's an option on the board, so.

>155 RidgewayGirl: I think the assumption poetry won't win has been made and folks are planning a "poetry corner" already. :)

What are people's feelings about going with the Bio/History CAT instead of the BioCAT or the HistoryCAT? It might include a "twenty-first century" theme to accommodate more modern biographies. Are there any reasons not to combine them?

>157 RidgewayGirl: I think a lot of people were hoping for a combination of them instead of splitting them up. Having the broader theme be history and then a focus on biographies shouldn't be too hard.

Yeah I don't recall seeing a single response that wanted them to be separate. History includes people, people are part of practically any historical thing there is to read about, so bios are without doubt included. I don't think we need to make any special themes for including them, but I suppose a focus here & there on something more specifically of that nature would work.

>157 RidgewayGirl: I definitely think they should be combined, though I was hoping all the months would be able to accommodate both—I'd say 21st c. is too recent for a history challenge.

ETA: Especially since a lot of people (including me) are in favour of including fiction in the history challenge. Once we get into "fiction set in the 21st century", I feel like a lot of the history element is lost.

>160 _Zoe_: Agreed.

>160 _Zoe_: Yeah, I'd feel weird about calling anything post-1990 "history".

>162 PawsforThought: I feel strange calling anything that occurred during my lifetime "history". Could we establish a date? For example, history includes anything that happened before the end of WW II (1945).

I don't really like the idea of setting a "cutoff" date for the potential History/BioCAT...or if we do, I think it should be really late, like the year 2000. Personally, I consider Eleanor & Park to be historical fiction, because Rainbow Rowell wrote it a couple of years ago but set it in the 1980s.

>163 LoisB: Me too. I guess I don't like to think of myself as "part of history," LOL.

I would suggest up through 1970 (or thereabouts) so we could include the Civil Rights Movement, the Vietnam War, and the other pivotal events of the '60s.

ETA in response to >164 christina_reads: Or maybe 2001 would be a good cutoff date, so that September 11 could be included if desired.

I know people tend to get all "but I was alive, it's not history!" but, that's not true. Vietnam, Korean War? History. Man walking on the moon? History. Apartheid, including its end? History.

For me, history is WWII and before but things are changing so rapidly that the world is a rather different place than it was in the nineties. So I could go with a 2001 cutoff.

(I would also be interested in a poetry and plays category.)

>165 sturlington: I like the 2001 cutoff, or anything pre-9/11.

I think that the 1960s should definitely be considered history even though many of us probably lived then. Now there are/have been celebrations concerning the 50th anniversary of events such as Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech, JFK's death, the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights bill, Freedom Summer, etc. Also, I'm assuming that many of us are different ages; what would be in the lifetime of some of us, would be prior to other people's births, which makes considering one person's lifetime not a good starting point for history.

FWIW, I personally shelve "History" to time periods before I was born, and "Current Events" to the year I was born and afterwards. Yes, it's somewhat arbitrary, but it works for me and perhaps something similar could be set up in Bio/History. I don't know how the categories *within* the CAT is going to be set up, so it's just a thought :-)

Is there a way GeoCAT and a TravelCAT could be combined?

I will give in on the definition of history and subscribe to the 2001 or earlier suggestion.

>171 clue: I like that idea!

>170 Tanya-dogearedcopy: We're all different ages, that's not remotely possible. Also, very arbitrary, not somewhat. ;)

>170 Tanya-dogearedcopy: What I meant was that there could be a qualification of "Current History" or "Modern History" that would deliberately be different for everyone. The results mights be an interesting variety of titles that would promote discussion about transitions between the generations.

Ahh, hm, maybe for one of the months something like that could be done, but how would that work with the themes? I'd imagine they would mostly be more specific than such giant gaps of time would allow for.

I don't really like the idea of a cutoff date, because to me, history includes the examination of historical events, their causes and their effects on the world. Books about the 2006 tsunami, the 1986 Challenger shuttle disaster or the 1990 tearing-down of the Berlin Wall would all be considered "history" to me, even though I was alive and learned about those events through the current news reports at the time.

I think that a cutoff of 2000 (or 2001 if we must) would suffice. I understand that there are still big things going on (of course), but those are recent events. Is it really that important to have the option to read a book about something that has just happened, as a "history" challenge? It's not like you can't still read books about modern events whenever you want.

>174 Tanya-dogearedcopy: & >175 .Monkey.: It can’t be such a gap, I mean gap-wise not theme-wise, even if some of us are 20 year-old and others 80 year-old?

We could decide to do, after all, a month about Renaissance in which case the gap would be 66 years going from 1492 to 1558 …

It was just a thought to toss out there as a monthly, not as an overall, theme. It sounds like monthly themes are going to break down by time periods in which case it could be as broad or as specific as you wanted: By century, by era, by generation...: 20th century; Post-War; or Baby Boomers, GenXers, & Millennials...

As for overall theme, I'm speculating that every one has their own was of approaching history whether it's general, art, military... so I'm not exactly sure what to offer or nominate as an overall theme. Were you thinking of having an overall topical theme (e.g. The Middle East conflicts, The English Monarchies...) or leaving it wide open?

I thought history was the theme? Are we doing themes within themes within themes? >_> I think that's rather much, and then the theme would be "Middle East conflicts" and not "history"...

>180 .Monkey.: I was just confused by "... one of the months something like that could be done, but how would that work with the themes?" I incorrectly inferred from this that there were monthly themes and and an overall theme outside of the chronological markers.

Again, the idea of a floating reference point for the more modern history topics was just something to throw out there. I'm not married to it one way or the other :-)

But really, before we get into the nitty-gritty of it all, it would probably best to find out if the HistoryCAT survives voting? :-)

I think History should be the theme and anything else could be a focus. e.g.. Vietnam war, French Revolution, Victorian Britain . . .

All we have to do is find the youngest person in the group and make his or her birth year the cutoff date!

Really, the definition of history is more about the sort of analysis being done and less about the date in which the event happened.

I think we could use the GeoCAT model for a HistoryCAT. We could have a broad monthly theme with an optional focus. For example:

Broader theme: wars / focus theme: Vietnam War
Broader theme: 19th century / focus theme: Victorian Britain
Broader theme: religious history / focus theme: Crusades
Broader theme: exploration / focus theme: Vikings
etc.

First, I was the one who suggested combining Shakespeare and poetry and plays - I'll go either way - just Shakespeare or P&P.

Second, I'd love to see GEOCAT and Travel combined.

Last, I'm thinking that if we have HISTORYCAT then each month would have a era of focus just like the GEOCAT this year has an area of focus each month.

Something like:

Ancient and Biblical Times
Greek and Roman Empires
Arthurian Britain
Medieval Times (includes the Vikings)
Renaissance/16th Century
New World Colonization(16th and 17th centuries)
Industrial Revolution and wars for Indeprndence (US,France) - 18th century
Napoleonic Era - 1799–1815
19th Century - except North America
19th Century - Northern America (includes Civil War)
World Wars - 20th century
Communism/fascism/nazism

I'm sure there are others but the monthly focus/themes can be decided when and if the HISTORYCAT wins a spot.

>184 cbl_tn: Well if HistoryCAT is picked, this would be a great way to do it. Something to accommodate everyone, those that love broad theme and those that love more focused theme.

>163 LoisB: Well, I feel much the same about my own lifetime being "history" but then I thought about big event life the fall of the Berlin Wall and I definitely consider that history even though I was alive (and old enough to remember) when that happened.

>177 .Monkey.: Yeah, I agree about that. You can still read the books you want, even if they don't fit into a particular CAT.

I would prefer if we do have a cutoff point and not just go with whatever years we're all born in. Personally, I think 2000/2001 is a bit too close to now but if everyone else wants to go with that, fine. I don't have to read a book set in the 90's so doesn't really matter to me.

I was hoping that the monthly themes would be time periods and not just general themes like "war" or "religion" or whatever. The focus could still be used to "catch" things like that if people want.

Or work our way back through time

Since 1980 focus Iraq wars
1900 -1980 focus cold war
19th century focus Victorian Britain
18th century focus Mughal India

>185 cyderry: Yes, that's the type of structure I'd want for the HistoryCAT.

Also, I don't understand why people would want Shakespeare but not P&P. If all someone wants to do is read Shakespeare, that's perfectly possible to do in a P&P challenge, but it still invites more people than just the Shakers fans. It's a matter of picking the best monthly themes to accommodate everyone. Maybe go with more broader things like "love poems", "odes", and whatever instead of ones based on time ("18th century", "post-modern", etc.)

It sounds like Shakespeare and P&P can be conflated if the categories are broad enough to encompass both Bard lovers and others. This sounds like a great idea and could move the Poetry Corner back into contention as a major CAT with more participants.

I agree with combining the bio and history themes into one cat, and I really like the format that Carrie mentioned in >184 cbl_tn:, setting the HistoryCat up much like the GeoCat was this year.

I also like the idea of combining the TravelCat and GeoCat into one.

The list that PM has posted in >143 .Monkey.: looks good (combining Travel & Geo). I believe that last year we had an initial vote and then narrowed the field down by eliminiating the bottom third for a second vote and then a final third vote between the 5 or so categories that were left.

I believe that last year we had an initial vote and then narrowed the field down by eliminiating the bottom third for a second vote and then a final third vote between the 5 or so categories that were left.

I like that, then the vote isn't split and all that.

The very unofficial rankings right now (most to least support):

History (conflating NF history, bios, and historical fiction)
Random
SFF
Geo
Genre
Horror
List
Shakespeare
Awards
Women
Foreign
P&P (Plays & Poetry)
Travel
Poetry
Alpha
Home
Family
Dream
Cover

Is it a good idea/bad idea to combine:
Poetry, P&P, and Shakespeare?
Geo, Foreign, and Travel?
Lists and Awards?

What about a Women's Awards List?
Is there interest for Non-Fiction outside of Bios, History, Poetry, and Plays?

I think it makes sense to combine Poetry, P&P, and Shakespeare, as long as Shakespeare does remain a prominent focus since it's higher ranked than P&P.

I'm less sure about the second combination, especially since Geo is ranking pretty highly as a known quantity right now. How would adding in other categories change it?

Lists and Awards would make sense to me.

I'm personally interested in non-fiction, but I know it's unlikely to be chosen since there hasn't been a lot of discussion about how it would work. But it could potentially include months some months inspired by other categories that didn't get chosen, like Women or Travel.

I'm not against nonfic, and I think there were a bunch of others also, just not sure depending on what it'd actually entail. I imagine some read mostly bios, others like travelogues, some read a lot of religious background stuff, etc. I think most of us have our nonfic niches that we probably don't own all that much outside of a few select sorts, ya know? Nonfic would actually be near the top of my list of -would potentially follow-, as there's few I'm actually keen on.

I really like the idea of combining the Poetry, P&P, and Shakespeare into one category. It's the sort of push I need to read a little bit more of each of those categories. I would also be interested in something involving non-fiction outside of the history/bio but am not sure how it would work exactly. So much non-fiction, or at least the books I tend to read, does seem to be historical or biographical in nature.

I like the various ideas tossed around for a combined Poetry, P&P, and Shakespeare CAT. Especially MarthaJeanne's (@149). Agree with LittleTaiko (@196) - "It's the sort of push I need to read a little bit more of each of those categories."

I also like cbl_tn's idea (@184) to "use the GeoCAT model for a HistoryCAT. We could have a broad monthly theme with an optional focus."

The more I read here and think about the RandomCAT and GeoCAT - both of which I loved this year - the more I think I might be inclined to vote against them when the time comes, just to have something new to fall in love with. I think I'm more in favor of taking them out of rotation for a year.

>197 countrylife: I am feeling the same about the RandomCat and the GeoCat, Cindy. I love them, but there are so many great new ideas as well, I am particularly drawn to the ideas of HistoryCat, WomanCat, Science-Fi/FantasyCat and a ListCat!

Can we do something with non-fiction that would be similiar to the poetry corner? My personal preference would be to set up some group discussions. I like the idea of a quarterly non fiction group read/discussion, but coordinating the book choice can be difficult. If there was a central location, some of that could be hashed out over the course of the year.

Is it a good idea/bad idea to combine:
Poetry, P&P, and Shakespeare? ------ Don't care; I won't be participating in any of them
Geo, Foreign, and Travel? -------- Good
Lists and Awards? -------- Good
Women's Awards List? ------- I'm hoping for a Women's category, so this could be part of it
Is there interest for Non-Fiction outside of Bios, History, Poetry, and Plays? ----- Yes

The listCAT could potentially have a non fiction list at some point I would imagine.

>199 March-Hare: There is a quarterly non-fiction group read in the 75 books group that seems to work pretty well. It is limited to books about science and/or history and/or religion, but the same structure could be set up here with a wider range of subjects. Zoe was instrumental in setting up the selection process, and maybe she can offer some ideas of how it could be translated to this group.

>157 RidgewayGirl: I think it's fine, and I think there should be a twenty-first century theme to go with it, too. I think I mentioned both of them to start, and that was something I wanted with the bioCAT (vs. History) was more current biographies.

>157 RidgewayGirl: One of my initial reasons for keeping them separate is that there are lots of current biographies. If we are combining biographies into history, I would like to see a current month.

>171 clue: Yes, I think I originally mentioned TravelCAT, then immediately qualified with the fact that it might be very close to a GeoCAT. I was surprised the idea (on a whim!) took off as it did!

I will reiterate that the reason I originally wanted a separate BioCAT (though I like both; I suggested both; and a lot of what I read does fit both) was because I thought there were current themes that could be included in a BioCAT (celebrity bios, health bios, travel bios, just as examples off the top of my head).

So.... if we put them together, I would really like to see a current/twenty-first century theme month. Otherwise, they could still be separate. (I'm not really saying they should be separate, though I still think they could be; I just want the option somewhere to include current biographies and not be only reading bios of historical people.)

Is it really that important to have the option to read a book about something that has just happened, as a "history" challenge? It's not like you can't still read books about modern events whenever you want.

>177 .Monkey.: Oh, but remember it's also a biography challenge. :-)

>187 PawsforThought: I was hoping that the monthly themes would be time periods and not just general themes like "war" or "religion" or whatever.

And I was picturing it to be a mix of both.

The Reading Through Time group has the practice of alternating between time periods (the Renaissance, etc...) and broad themes (war, religion) which seems to strike a good balance. I wonder if these broad themes would allow for modern biographies?

>209 RidgewayGirl: That sounds like a good idea.

I also think that time periods need to be set in such a way that they are not limited to a certain part of the world.

>207 LibraryCin: Except that it's not, since the vast majority want them as one thing with the option to read bio or something else (or both, obviously), under history. I think the point was most people were interested in reading the sorts of bios of more significance. I know I wouldn't be remotely interested in a bioCAT like you're talking about.

>211 .Monkey.: I think >207 LibraryCin: has a good point. If we conflate history and biography, we should leave space for the more recent biographies. The suggestion in >209 RidgewayGirl: would do this nicely, I think.

The exact structure of a possible HistoryCAT (with biographies for those who want to read them) will be voted on later, I presume. It's likely - based on the support it has now - that it will be chosen but we're not deciding on the structure just yet.

>202 sjmccreary: Yup, I thought of that group read as soon as the quarterly idea was mentioned. I suspect that I won't be able to do another quarterly read in this group as well, since I haven't even been able to keep up with that, but I like the idea in principle.

My one suggestion after this year would be to choose the books each quarter, rather than all in advance. The choosing phase generates a lot of interest and excitement, and spreading that out through the year seems to increase participation.

On another note, should we separate BioCAT out from History after all? I think that Bio has an extremely slim chance of being selected on its own, but there's no point in merging them if it eliminates what people want out of Bio in the first place. People interested in historical biographies would still be able to read those in the History CAT, but it sounds like what LibraryCin wants is something very different (celebrity, health, travel, etc.).

It can be added back (though we were trying to pare down the list to make it less unwieldy), but there was like two other people who were possibilities on it as solo. It's not going to come remotely close to making the cut, so I don't really see the point in including those with nominal votes. But if people want to include every single option just for the sake of it, it can be done.

I originally voted for Bio & History to be combined, but after reading this discussion, I think I want to change my vote! I would greatly prefer a BioCAT!

>215 .Monkey.: I think the main benefit of combining is to avoid vote-splitting, but if we're doing three rounds of voting, even that is less of a concern. Other than that, it doesn't seem particularly harmful to have a higher number of options on the original list.

*shrug* I guess it's a huge list to vote through after all.

I've been wondering about a separate Bingo card for non-fiction. I'll take it over to the Bingo thread, but since there seems to be interest in the non-fiction here, I thought I'd throw it out, here too.

Interesting, but I don't know that I'd be reading 24 nonfic books. Maybe if it were smaller?

You wouldn't have to play blackout bingo - a single line bingo would only be 4 or 5 books.

>219 streamsong:: That idea has potential, I think! If a theme gets rejected as a CAT, but there is not enough support to make it a KIT (or if there are already too many KITs), a themed Bingo card would be a nice alternative. It would be best if the squares mirrored the squares for the main bingo card. For example, if a square were, "A book made into a movie," that could apply equally well to a non-fiction Bingo card or a Shakespeare Bingo card. If a square were, "A story featuring a wizard or magician," a non-fiction one could be, "A book about myths or folklore."

>214 _Zoe_: On another note, should we separate BioCAT out from History after all? I think that Bio has an extremely slim chance of being selected on its own, but there's no point in merging them if it eliminates what people want out of Bio in the first place. People interested in historical biographies would still be able to read those in the History CAT, but it sounds like what LibraryCin wants is something very different (celebrity, health, travel, etc.).

I also think it has a very slim chance of being selected on its own (though I guess I could always come up with a KIT if anyone wanted to do that).

But, I am fine with it being combined, as long as somewhere along the way - even if it's only one month - we can include something current.

ETA: Oh, and those were only suggestions if the BioCAT had been separate (and for people to see that Biographies are not only historical). If people had wanted/liked a BioCAT, there would have been plenty of months I was also picturing historical biographies, so there would have been both, but it would have been a Biography focus, which yes, would cut out the more general history.

Discussion having tapered off, it's time to start winnowing down our choices. I'm continuing on to a new thread, in which we will begin by reducing our current list of 22 by half.