Next year's CATs -- much discussion and more voting!

Time for more voting! It's time to begin narrowing down our choices. In this round, we'll vote on which CATs appeal (no obligation to participate, of course). When votes are counted, early on August 25th (please vote by the 24th!), the eleven CATs with the fewest "yes" votes will drop out of the running.

Please keep the number of "yes" votes you place to five to eight. Since voting is anonymous, however, you can vote "yes" as often or as little as you want. Only "yes" votes are counted for this round of voting.

The CATs under consideration are:

BioCAT: Biographies of different types (to be determined) to be read.

HistoryCAT: Books set in different eras, or historical works following common themes (to be determined, although some discussion in previous thread) can be either fiction or non-fiction.

Bio/HistoryCAT (name to come?): A combination of the previous two suggested CATs.

GenreCAT (with all the variations): Some discussion in previous threads. Each of four genres gets a three month time frame, with a sub-genre featured each month.

PoetryCAT: Not much discussion on this one. Format to be determined later.

ShakespeareCAT: Again, specifics still need to be determined.

CoverCAT: Books chosen based on characteristics of their covers, for example, a cover that is predominantly blue, or features a vehicle, etc…

SFFCAT: science fiction, speculative fiction, and fantasy

HorrorCAT: The various kinds of horror novels are to be featured, for example, gothic or suspense.

P&PCAT (Poetry and Plays): Poetry and plays to be chosen based on various themes to be determined. Some discussion on adding a strong Shakespeare element.

RandomCAT (is this going to be a regular thing?): Different volunteers each get to choose the theme of that month's CAT. This is our "wild card" challenge.

AwardsCAT: Reading books that have been shortlisted or won various awards. Which awards would be featured is still to be determined.

AlphaCAT: An alphabetical challenge where two letters are featured each month and participants read a book that has a word in the title beginning with that letter, or that letter begins the author's name.

ListCAT: Choosing books based on various lists, such as the 1001 Books to Read Before You Die, or the Booker shortlists. Actual lists have not yet been determined.

ForeignCAT: Reading books in translation, books not originally written in English.

WomenCAT: Books written by women.

Non-FictionCAT: Non-Fiction of various kinds.

HomeCAT: Books set in the participant's city or region.

GeoCAT: Different regions are featured each month, with participants reading books set in the area or written by authors from that region.

FamilyCAT: Exploring your family tree through books. For example, choose a book about an occupation an ancestor had.

DreamCAT: Places and themes the participant longs to explore.

TravelCAT: Similar to GeoCAT, with an emphasis on places we'd like to visit.

If there are additions or corrections to the descriptions, please let me know. I hope this helps those who look at the previous discussions and realize they don't have time to read it all, but would like to vote. If you have any questions, please ask!

Two things. A) We're supposed to have voted days before the thread existed ;) and
B) There shouldn't be a separate history and history/bio vote. Bios of significance are still history and would obviously be acceptable under that category.

>24 .Monkey.: I put the Bio/HistoryCAT in for a vote because there was no clear consensus that it was not needed and some discussion as to how it would work specifically. You can always not vote for it on the grounds of redundancy of you choose. : )

Ehm, August 14th/15th? Today is the 18th...

Oops! The 14th/25th. Thanks. Off to change the first post.

>24 .Monkey.: I think there was also at least one significant difference, in that Bio/HistoryCAT would include a 21st-century element while history alone probably wouldn't?

Would it be worth separately listing a CAT that's half general P&P and half Shakespeare? There was some discussion of that in the previous thread.

ETA: Reading through the descriptions more carefully, I guess this is potentially included in the basic P&P.

>28 _Zoe_: Exactly, with some follow up conversation as to whether the History/BioCAT could alternate time periods with themes (monarchy, exploration, modernization, etc…) which would allow for more recent biographies and those who prefer straight history to coexist. But the discussion is very much on-going.

I've voted!

>26 PawsforThought: That was what my "A" was saying, but it seemed not to be understood somehow, lol.

>32 .Monkey.: I posted before I finished reading all the posts, and didn't see that you'd already pointed it out. Great minds and all...

>32 .Monkey.: You're right, PM. I took it to mean that I should have already posted the voting some time ago. My misunderstanding. Luckly, Paws was there to put things right.

Haha oh no no, I'd never say when something "should have" been posted!

Still following along and very curious where this will all lead.

I think things are shaping up for us to have three very interesting Cats next year.

I'm surprised how well the non-fiction CAT is doing.

>38 March-Hare: Yup, I was pleasantly surprised by that as well. That should be a promising theme for a KIT if it doesn't get chosen.

This could very well change my "set-up" for 2015...

>40 March-Hare: Yeah, I'm considering a change, too.

I'm just curious about something related to CatWoman, and by the way I'm okay one way or the other on this one. I was thinking I read a lot of books by women anyway and decided to see what the percentage is for the year. As of today 72% of the books I've read in 2014 are by women and my favorite top 2 of the year are by women (Sontomayor and Tartt). Now I'm curious about past years and I'm going to go back and take a look at the past 2 or 3 years just for fun. Anybody else want to share?

I'm surprised about the non-fiction votes too! I'll participate in this one if it comes to pass.

Sorry, just another random post so I can follow any further discussion here. :-)

>42 clue: I just checked and 81 of my 124 books this year were written by women! And, most (23) of the books that I rated **** or better were written by women!

>42 clue: 30 out of the 47 books I've read this year were by women. That's about 68%. I think I read more books by women every year.

Just a comment about bios whether they would fall into a BioCAT or HISTORYCAT - my book club have chosen to read Biographies twice and each time we were not necessarily reading the same but different books about the same person. Our two choices were Katharine Hepburn and Teddy Roosevelt. Each time it led to a very lively discussion because of the different viewpoints of the authors not just the person written about.

>42 clue: After a quick check of the books I've read so far, it's about 60% female authors and 40% male.

Am afraid I haven't held up the women's author percentage very well - with only 32% being women.

>42 clue: Of the books I've read so far this year, just over 2/3 of them (68.4%) were written by women. Last year was, oddly enough, almost the same percentage (67.4% women). It's not intentional, but I guess that's what I naturally gravitate towards!

>42 clue: OK! I'll play!

In 2013, 42.01 % of the books I read were by women, with another 1.18% authored by a male and a female.

So far this year, 39.55% if the books that I have read are by women (with none co-authored by a man & woman together.)

Since I don't take authors' genders into consideration when I'm picking a book, it will be interesting to see if the approximate values hold up next year as well.

I haven't checked any percentages but I'm fairly certain my numbers will be something like 10% women.

60% of my books this year are written by female authors. I was surprised by this as I thought the percentage would be higher.

I'd think the genre you read wold affect the percentage of women authors you read. Sci Fi and Fantasy has fewer women writers, whereas mystery seems to have a lot more.

I read a lot of fantasy by female authors. In fact almost all the fantasy I read is by female authors.

Cozy* mysteries have a lot more women, suspense mysteries (which I much prefer) are more dominated by men. The amusing thing about that observation (>53 majkia:) is that the first few names I think of for scifi/fantasy are women (most notably Ursula Le Guin), plus Heinlein. Also, aside of cozy mysteries, chicklit, and romance, I don't think there's anywhere that women dominate or even come close to the number of men, so unless one reads almost everything from only those 3 options, it is very unlikely they'd read more women by chance.

>55 .Monkey.: I don't know. I don't read cozies, but like dark crime fiction, and that's been an area where female authors have surged ahead in recent decades.

My percentage is somewhere between 60 - 65% female. It would be higher, but I do love an awards shortlist and those still tend to be male dominated. It's changing, but slowly.

My percentage of female authors so far this year is 44%. I didn't count two compilations of poetry and a book coauthored by a man and a woman. That percentage may be lower than usual. I haven't looked at previous years.

ETA: Of the 9 books I've rated at 4.5 or 5 stars this year, 2 are by female authors and 7 by male authors.

I'm at about 61% women so far this year and was at about 75% last year. I'm guessing I'll be about the same at the end of this year.

>56 RidgewayGirl: I'm not saying there's none, I read some of them myself. There are, indeed, a lot more than there used to be; but it's still dominated by males.

I checked my last 100 books and ended up with

57 by women
40 by men
3 with corporate authors or I can't tell.

(This is strictly by primary author.)

I'm finding a lot more female authors of nonfiction lately. I certainly don't pick books by the gender of the author, but there certainly is a sense in which I tend to more interested in the topics written about by women.

>55 .Monkey.: I don't read any cozy mysteries, chick lit, or romance (except for one Georgette Heyer this year) and I have 68% women authors. I find a lot of authors through the Bailey's Prize for Women's Fiction (formerly the orange prize) and also read a lot of classics - Virginia Woolf, Willa Cather, etc. I also love contemporary authors like Hilary Mantel, Toni Morrison, Margaret Atwood. Also, I read a lot of nonfiction by women.

I don't read these authors because they are women, I just tend to enjoy their books.

>61 japaul22: I think you're missing what I'm saying. I'm not remotely saying the only way to read women is through those. I'm saying those are the only areas that women dominate. Everywhere else, it's men. You have to actively seek out the women, and if you don't actively seek to read them, you wind up with a lot more men.

>62 .Monkey.: And what I'm saying is that I don't think you have to actively seek out women authors to read a lot of them anymore. There are many "household name" women writing now that readers of both sexes follow without regard to whether they are men or women, and not just in genre writing.

I wholeheartedly disagree, sorry. Progress has been made, but it's not come nearly that far.

#65: agreed

>65 .Monkey.: I think what I wrote was pretty moderate. I didn't say there doesn't need to still be progress in the publishing world as far as women authors being taken seriously both in terms of getting published and in marketing, or progress in women being taken seriously for prize lists (this year's Booker long list had only 3 female authors!), but there is a good amount of quality writing by women being both published and marketed. I've been happy to see that in the last 5 years or so, that if you walk into a bookstore, female authors and male authors are pretty evenly represented in displays and recommendation tables. I also find most of my friends who read choosing talented women authors over male authors regularly - not because they are women, but because they like the books. There is progress to be made, but I don't feel women authors being hidden away or completely relegated to chicklit or genre writing. I also see more and more men willing to read books by women. Maybe I just have progressive friends!

Anyway, I wasn't trying to cause a big argument, I just felt my comments weren't completely understood.

My library is split exactly 50/50, with respect to male and female authors. I'm a big SFF fan, and it's true that the genre used to be dominated by men, and it's probably still true that women writing in that field face more challenges. However, looking at the Hugo Award winners announced this past weekend, it seems as if the women are doing all right. Ann Leckie, winner of Best Novel, has won practically every major SF award this year.

I see that CATWoman is getting a lot of votes. If this ends up being a CAT, I really hope that the topics will focus on women's issues or female authors that are underrepresented in certain regions or during certain time periods. Given this recent discussion, I don't think many of us need to be encouraged to read more books by female authors. :)

>67 japaul22: It's too bad there are only 3 women on the Booker longlist this year, but I think women have been pretty well represented on the Booker lists lately. Last year, there were 7/13 women on the longlist and 4/6 on the shortlist, and Eleanor Catton won. The previous year, there were 5/13 women on the longlist, 3/6 on the shortlist and Hilary Mantel won.

Anyhow, I'm not trying to get into any debates either but just noticing that the situation for female authors seems to be improving. :)

>68 mathgirl40: agreed!

>68 mathgirl40: Maybe before the next round of voting we could spend a bit more time fleshing out the structure of the top contenders, so that we'll have a better sense of what we're voting for?

>68 mathgirl40: You hit upon what I was thinking when I first looked at my percentage of women read vs men read. By what we're seeing above many of us do read books by women but may want to read a different type of book rather any book by a woman. I have read more cozy mysteries this year than I normally do because I've accompanied family members to Drs' appointments and had several days at the hospital after surgeries, and I wanted easy to put down and pick up reading. All of those (about 10) were by women. I'm in my sixties and read a lot of feminist fiction and nonfiction in my 30s but don't particulary want to do that now. I'm interested in more literary fiction and nonfiction by women though. It will be interesting to see what shakes out if the Cat is chosen.

Most of the ones I voted for, my participation would depend a lot on the final form the CAT took. I think this is particularly the case with HistoryCAT, but also with CATwoman.

>72 MarthaJeanne: I agree about HistoryCAT - it could be great, but it could also go so wrong!

We can start discussing, can't we? If something we've discussed doesn't make the cut, so what? Let's start putting more form to what we have so far.

So why are people voting for a HistoryCAT and not a History/BioCAT? Disinterest in biographies? And do we want to have straight time frames (e.g.. 1801-1850, 1851-1900), eras (Victorian Era, Crusades), themes (civil unrest, monarchies), or some combination of those?

What would a CATWoman look like? A Non-FictionCAT? The ListCAT? How do we want to work the SFFFCAT?

I don't want bio/history because I don't see current events as history. They'd make the cut for history in another decade, or whatever. I'd still read bios, if I have something applicable to the theme, for history. As for content, I'd say perhaps a mix of dates & eras, with themes being the optional focuses like for Geo.

I voted for history alone because I wouldn't read that many biographies and the ones I would read could still fit under history most likely.

Themes or time periods would work for me but since I intend to read some more about WWI there may be some eras or themes I don't choose to participate in.

I would hope for a variety of both sub-genre and perhaps themes for the SFFCAT but would like to hear some ideas about this.

I think people will read bios in a historyCAT. I'm with >71 clue: - I don't want to read women's 'issues' or other such. Been there done that. My votes will probably depend on how they develop.

>74 RidgewayGirl: Given the discussion in the last thread, I think the preference for history alone was basically about the time periods: people don't want a "21st century" month. But I'd imagine that plenty of people will still read historical biographies.

My preference would be for straight time periods with an era as a focus, in the same way that GeoCAT had broad regions and then more focus within them. So a 19th-century month with a Victorian focus (and maybe even with a more specific sub-focus) would still allow people to read books set in places with no connection to England.

I'd also be happy to alternate time periods with themes, as someone suggested earlier.

>74 RidgewayGirl: I approached voting from a slightly different angle. Instead of choosing one CAT over another (e.g. HistoryCAT over Bio/HistoryCAT), I voted for those CATs that I would participate in if they were offered. So I ended up voting for both HistoryCAT and Bio/HistoryCAT. I voted against BioCAT however. I like the idea of exploring a time period though Bios and NF History and Historical Fiction; and reading just biographies/memoirs is too restrictive for what I want to get out of my reading. I realize that a BioCAT wouldn't restrict any reading I would do outside of the CAT; but at the same time, I know I would fill out my personal CATS with something completely different. I am hoping the HistoryCAT will actually include biographies and allow for participation from the 21st Century crowd.

I liked the idea of alternating the HistoryCAT (or Bio/HistoryCAT) with time periods and themes for the reason that it would provide more flexibility for those who would want to read material closer to Current Events with biographies. I have a more ambivalent attitude about demarcating a cutoff time for "history" for other people, and like the idea of being more inclusive rather than less. Nonetheless, I didn't vote for NFCAT because, without any possible parameters set so far for the CAT whatsoever, I have no idea what it would look like, and the vagueness or "anything goes" perception doesn't appeal to me. As discussion continues, and the CAT develops, I might be persuaded to vote for it of it survives voting (which it currently looks like it will.)

I popped up my percentages on female vs male authors, and while I have duly noted the imbalance to the disadvantage of female authors, I'm probably not going to consciously redress that with my reading next year. I was briefly tempted by the idea of a CATWoman that was also a ListCAT/AwardsCAT (e.g. Orange/Bailey List) but after some soul-searching, realized that I wasn't really committed to the cause per se.

I generally don't read a lot of SFF, but I found myself reading more in that genre this year "by accident!" I don't really know enough about the sub-genres as a whole, but it seems it has a lot of promising possibilities: Atomic Age SCI-FI, Dystopia, Post-Apocalyptic Fiction, Paranormal Romance, Urban Fantasy... and/or there could be a Hugo Awards Winners list, Women writers in SFF... or even an author-centric month (e.g. Neil Gaiman, Ray Bradbury...) This is one of the CATS that I feel would be better hashed out when/if it survives voting. There's certainly enough interest in it that I don't think there will be any dearth of ideas or a significant drop-off for any reason.

It's been mentioned that the P&PCAT (Plays and Poetry) might also include some Shakespeare. As Shakespeare on its own doesn't look like it will survive the voting, I hope The Bard makes does make an appearance in whatever limited way :-)

I agree very much with what >79 Tanya-dogearedcopy: said about the HistoryCat/BioCat. I like the idea of a HistoryCat that would also include the reading of biographies if they fit and the debate of when something is history or not aside, I would be more than willing to include a month for those who wish a 21st century time slot.

I also really like >78 _Zoe_: idea of time periods with particular focus on certain eras, much like the GeoCat was done this year.

I voted yes to the CatWoman although I admit to now having second thoughts, would need to have a clearer idea on what this would entail. I have also spent my time reading about "woman's issues" and have no real interest in visiting that subject again. Now seeing everyones male:female author split, I don't know if we really need a challenge dedicated to the reading of women authors.

I am very intrigued by the idea of a ListCat, but would like to know how this would be set up.

I am also interested in the Sci-Fi/FantasyCat and like the ideas that Tanya provided. I think this would be a fun one.

Does anyone have any ideas for non-fiction?

I think it would also be nice there to have general themes with more specific sub-themes.

The obvious place for inspiration on themes is the basic Dewey Decimal classification (Philosophy/Psychology, Social Sciences, Language, Science, Technology, Arts and Recreation, History and Geography), but ideally we could choose themes that were a bit more flexible than that so that people could work in different sorts of books that were more appealing to them.

For example, instead of Language, we could have Communication, so that people could read books about language, but could also read about the invention of the telephone, or social media, or code-breaking in WWII.

Similarly, taking Science as inspiration, we could have a category like Discoveries, which would include scientific discoveries but also the discovery of America.

Basically, broad thematic categories that would cross disciplinary boundaries, with specific sub-focuses as well?

I was just about to suggest a Dewey Decimal-type classification for the nonfiction CAT, but >81 _Zoe_: beat me to it! :)

For the CATWoman, I don't think the books would have to be about feminism or "women's issues" per se. I was imagining monthly themes like "award-winning books by women," "books by women of color," "female authors using male pseudonyms," "books with female protagonists," etc. Maybe ONE month could be "read a feminist work" or "read a book about gender," but it certainly wouldn't have to be the focus of the entire CAT.

For a SFFCAT, subgenres would certainly be an obvious (and fairly easy) way to go. The CAT could cover everything from sword & sorcery to steampunk to space opera. Or we could approach the monthly topics a bit more thematically: "books with anti-heroes," "books set in the future," "post-apocalyptic settings," and the like.

As for the history or bio/history CAT, I don't really have anything to add to the discussion...lots of good points have been made, and I will be interested to see how things shape up from here!

i too was thinking that the Dewey Decimal system would be a good jumping point for the non-fiction CAT.

I voted for a non-fiction CAT, without having any idea how it might look, but I like Zoe's ideas (@ 81).

I like the Dewey Decimal system but I also like Zoe's idea of broad themes that open the categories to a wider choice. I always enjoy seeing how people interpret these kind of themes to fit their reading.

I would probably not participate if it were just Dewey based, although I read a lot of nonfiction.

Here's a list of my non-fiction reads for the first half of this year. They cover a wide variety of subjects (historical topics, disasters, sports, war, medicine, etc.). Some are memoirs and biographies; some are just accounts. Most were excellent!

Killer Boobs, a memoir of how my breasts tried to kill me...
Devil in the Grove: Thurgood Marshall, the Groveland Boys, and the Dawn of a New America
The Immortal life of Henrietta Lacks
Dark Tide: The Great Boston Molasses Flood of 1919
Notes from a Small Island
Why I Married A Murderer: And How I Survived the Divorce
The Shetland Bus: A WWII Epic of Escape, Survival, and Adventure
Behind the Beautiful Forevers: Life, Death, and Hope in a Mumbai Undercity
Let's Just Say It Wasn't Pretty
My Accidental Jihad
12 Years a Slave
Last Train to Paradise
One Knee Equals Two Feet

I like the idea of more specific topics than the Dewey Decimal System provides.

I also like the idea of having broad but specific topics for the non-fiction CAT (if it materializes) rather than having it based on the Dewey Decimal System. There are areas in the DDC in which I have no interest in reading. Also, it includes history, which has a good chance of being a separate CAT. Several of the broad but specific topics might be in the social sciences such as race relations, gender issues, etc.

I'm not too keen on using the Dewey Decimal system to structure the non-fictionCAT, but I can't think of another way of getting twelve monthly subcategories out of something as broad as non-fiction.

It seems to me that the RandomCAT is popular because you get the "game" of trying to find something that fits a limited theme without that theme being either too restrictive or too arbitrary. I'm not sure how you reproduce that starting with non-fiction. My sense is that the Dewey Decimal system tends towards too arbitrary while the theme idea tends towards too restrictive.

Some specific ideas for non-fiction monthly categories:

War
Science/Medicine
Natural Disasters
Travel
Third World Issues
Sports
Politics/Government
Social Issues
Technology

Most of my NonFiction reads fall into these categories:

Food - food, nutrition, GMOs, farming
The Arts
Spirituality/religion
Pop Culture
and books about specific places - cities, rivers, sewers, buildings, etc

>90 LoisB: I like this as a starting point for non-fiction. There are 9 on that list - we need 3 more. How about expanding science/medicine into 2 months, perhaps medicine vs other science, or life sciences vs earth sciences - something like that. I would add a category for music, literature & arts. How about a month for home & family life that could include historical lifestyles, agriculture, handicrafts, and interpersonal communications? Food and clothing is another possibility for a theme, or could be included in home & family life. And, taking a cue from >91 VioletBramble:, spirituality, religion, and mythology is an excellent topic, also infrastructure (buildings, roads and bridges, cities, production of energy, etc).

>91 VioletBramble: >92 sjmccreary:
How do these sound?

War
Science
Medicine
Travel
Home & Family Life (including food & clothing,historical lifestyles, agriculture, handicrafts, and interpersonal communications)
Sports
Politics/Government
Social Issues
Technology
Music, literature & arts
Spirituality, religion, and mythology
Infrastructure (buildings, roads and bridges, cities, production of energy, etc. including natural disasters).

I think that is a nice mix of topics. And they are broad enough that I think anyone could find something they're willing to read each month.

Zoe (@81) started with Dewey (her DD list boldened below), and had other great suggestions to broaden it. Adding those together along with others that have been put forward in this thread, the list of nonfiction possibilities so far suggested looks like this:

Philosophy/Psychology,
Social Sciences, Social issues(race relations, gender issues)
Language, Communication (the invention of the telephone, or social media, or code-breaking in WWII)
Science, Discoveries, which would include scientific discoveries but also the discovery of America.
Science, Medicine
Technology,
Arts and Recreation, (music, literature and arts)
History and Geography,
Historical topics
War
Travel
Third World Issues
Sports
Politics/Government
Food - food, nutrition, GMOs, farming (or Food and clothing)
Spirituality, religion, and mythology
Pop Culture
Specific places - cities, rivers
Home & Family Life (including food & clothing,historical lifestyles, agriculture, handicrafts, and interpersonal communications)
Infrastructure (buildings, roads and bridges, cities, production of energy, etc. including natural disasters).
Natural Disasters (separately)

If we wanted to go with broader themes, maybe something like "Around the World" for geography/travel? That would include all the travel books, but also immigration, books about food from different regions, etc.

How about broadening Sports to Sports and Hobbies?

If the History/BioCAT doesn't make it, how about a month for biographies?

>98 RidgewayGirl: I don't really see the point in that, to be honest. If people want to read biographies during HistoryCAT they can do that any month of the year (whatever time period/theme the bio fits in with). Having a separate biograhpies month just means that people who don't want to read biographies have to skip that month.

It would certainly fit in the nonfiction. As for history, it depends how it is set up. If there are theme months, any theme chosen could exclude people.

A lot of people seem to like reading crime and mysteries so maybe a true crime section in the non fiction cat. Also, people who like bios could read a bio related to those topics. Eg bio on Stephen Hawkins for science etc.

I would think that true crime would fit into biography. I wouldn't want to see it as a month for itself. I think crime is one of those genres that people either love or hate.

>94 sjmccreary: Strongly disagree. I would read almost none of those.

>95 countrylife: Those are good additions. I'd actually participate a fair bit with those.

Also agree with >96 _Zoe_: and >97 MarthaJeanne:'s suggestions, and agree with 99 & 102.

Non-fiction is such a broad category and seems mostly characterized by what we don't want to read. Can we think up monthly themes that are outside of "technology," "biography," "true crime," etc…?

I'm not entirely sure what you mean? >95 countrylife: has a pretty large list... Are you talking about like, particular themes rather than larger umbrellas?

Also, I voted no to historyCAT at there is already a Reading Through Time group that does exactly what has been suggested for historyCAT. So anybody who is keen is welcome to come and check it out. August is WWI month so feel free to pop over there and join in. I can insert a link if anybody is interested.

>106 Roro8: Anyone can read anything they want whenever they want. But this is for challenges within the group.

>107 .Monkey.:, no problem.

I'm not saying people shouldn't join that group or whatever. But the CATs are about here, so it's irrelevant what any other group is about. There are groups for nearly all of the suggestions.

Well, Reading Through Time was a group formed by members of the Category Challenge in order to read history/historical novels together. It was created before the CATs and was always an offshoot of this group. So mentioning it here is germane -- we didn't go with a HistoryCAT last year in part because Reading Through Time already filled that role.

Check it out -- http://www.librarything.com/groups/readingthroughtime

I also voted no on the HIstoryCAT because I already participate in the Reading Through Time group. As much as I love history, I don't think I would want to participate in two different history challenges each month.

>95 countrylife: This is getting closer. I wouldn't duplicate a monthly category (if that is what you were intending with Science, discoveries... and Science, medicine). Maybe we could set the monthly categories roughly based on the Dewey Decimal system and then have discussions picking the themes throughout the year. We could encourage participation by having two or three themes for each month.

Examples of how it could end up:

Politics/Government Political Science, Current Events, Biographies of World Leaders
Philosophy/Psychology Ancient Philosophy, Psychoanalysis, Logic

To preserve the 'game" aspect I would suggest allowing a wildcard so that someone who didn't like a particular category could do a non-fiction wildcard for that month and still complete the challenge.

I think "wildcards" are carrying things a bit far. It's all for-fun optional stuff. There's no requirements to participate. If you're not interested in a month, and there's nothing you can toe the line with for it, that's fine, just skip it.

Of course, but the option would be there for the completists.

March-Hare (@112): None of the ideas in my post were my own. I was just assembling all the ideas that had been suggested into one list, to make it easier to see and to facilitate discussion. (Which is why Science showed up twice, using different members’ suggestions.)

Here is the list including the group's most recent ideas.

Philosophy/Psychology, Ancient Philosophy, Psychoanalysis, Logic
Social Sciences, Social issues(race relations, gender issues)
Language, Communication (the invention of the telephone, or social media, or code-breaking in WWII)
Science, Discoveries, which would include scientific discoveries but also the discovery of America.
Science, Medicine
Technology,
Arts and Recreation, (music, literature and arts)
History and Geography,
Geography, Travel / Around the World (travel, immigration, regional food, etc.)
Politics/Government, Political Science, Current Events, Biographies of World Leaders
Historical topics
War
Travel
Third World Issues
Sports and Hobbies
Food - food, nutrition, GMOs, farming (or Food and clothing)
Spirituality, religion, and mythology
Pop Culture
Specific places - cities, rivers
Home & Family Life (including food & clothing,historical lifestyles, agriculture, handicrafts, and interpersonal communications)
Infrastructure (buildings, roads and bridges, cities, production of energy, etc. including natural disasters).
Natural Disasters (separately)
Biographies
True Crime
Wildcard

>104 RidgewayGirl: I was trying to think of slightly broader themes that could each encompass at least two of the Dewey classes, if that's what you mean? So no one would be forced to read one specific type of book.

Instead of a topic like "true crime", I would look at the other groupings and see what it could be associated with. Maybe it could go along with psychology as something like "human behaviour"? Or with wars and natural disasters as "When things go wrong"?

Well you left out sports - and I read a lot of maritime disaster books (ships sinking aren't natural disasters) - don't see where they would fit in -

I do realize that the CATS are optional and I can read anything I want, whether it fits a CAT or not, but it's nice when it does. I sometimes, but not always, choose my next read to fit a CAT.

>117 mysterymax: Who are you addressing?

I also think wildcards are carrying it a bit too far. And, I still think the Dewey Decimal categories are a bit too broad. Regarding biographies, I think a biography would fit in any of the topics mentioned. So, the business analyst in me asks the following questions:

1. What is "non-fiction"? The easy answer is anything that is presented as true. This would include biographies, memoirs, autobiographies, accounts of actual events, essays, opinions etc.

2. Should the focus of each month be on the "types" of non-fiction or on the "topics" that non-fiction addresses? We haven't identified 12 types of non-fiction, but we have identified more than 12 topics. I would prefer topics.

3. What is the primary purpose of the "topics"? Is it to allow us to pull a book from our TBR pile and slot it somewhere? Is it designed to focus our reading? Is it supposed to encourage discussion of the topic? I use is to focus my reading on topics that I might have skipped otherwise.

4. How much overlap should the topics have with other CATs? If there is a HistoryCAT, do we really need a History topic (month) in the Non-FictionCAT? As much as I love searching for and getting CATtricks, I prefer clear lines of demarcation between CATs.

5. Do we want broad topics with narrower foci or narrow topics? I prefer narrower topics, but would participate in either choice.

>117 mysterymax: Not sure why I limited the category to "natural" disasters - senior moment! I agree that it should include all disasters, including man-made ones.

.118 Sorry! Found it. Haven't washed my glasses or had my coffee yet!

>119 LoisB:

1. Is there any particular debate about this? I guess there might be some fringe cases, but for the most part I think people are in agreement here.

2. I prefer topics.

3. Ideally, the topics will encourage us to broaden our reading a bit, but without forcing us to read things that we're completely uninterested in. I think this is best accomplished by having particular foci within broader themes, like GeoCAT this year.

4. If both HistoryCAT and NonfictionCAT are chosen, I wouldn't include a specific history category in the non-fiction challenge. But I think people should be able to read history books for various other non-fiction categories (history of science, history of religion, etc.).

5. I prefer broad topics with narrower foci. That accommodates more people while still encouraging discussion of a specific topic.

"Disasters" sounds like a great topic. It could be anything from a mountain climbing accident to a book about the aftermath of a hurricane.

Could we consider themes like "Opinion," "Personal Essays," "Travel" and the like? Food and Drink might also work for a lot of us -- cookbooks, memoirs, travelogues featuring food, etc...

>122 _Zoe_: My intent with question #1 was to identify that biographies are a type of non-fiction, not a topic and would be appropriate in all topics.

Regarding #4, I totally agree.

>123 RidgewayGirl: Disasters sounds good to me.

What sort of books would you include in "Opinion"? I like the idea in general, but I'm not quite sure what it would entail, and I might expand it to something like "Opinions and Ideas".

>124 LoisB: Ah, thanks for clarifying! I would say that biography is a topic since it's defined by its content, but I agree that it easily overlaps with all sorts of other topics.

>125 _Zoe_: Ooh, I like that. "Opinions and Ideas" encompasses everything from Let's Explore Diabetes with Owls to The Boy Who Harnessed the Wind to I am Malala to books about Henry Kissinger.

I also like broad topics and agree with whoever said that it's fun to see what people choose to read in any given topic.
>115 countrylife: list has no place for reading about nature. So science, discoveries and science, medicine is too restrictive imo. As to biographies, I think we should leave it up to the reader and if she wants to read a bio related to any given topic that would be a fit.

OK, so here is this week's NY Times top ten non-fiction bestsellers with suggested categorizations:

1 UNBROKEN, by Laura Hillenbrand. (Random House.) An Olympic runner’s story of survival as a prisoner of the Japanese in World War II after his plane went down over the Pacific.
-------------> War

2 THE BOYS IN THE BOAT, by Daniel James Brown. (Viking.) The University of Washington’s eight-oar crew and their quest for gold at the 1936 Berlin Olympics.
-------------> Sports

3 THE FIRST FAMILY DETAIL, by Ronald Kessler. (Crown Forum.) A reporter divulges details from Secret Service agents about the lives of presidents, ex-presidents and candidates, as well as about the service’s failings.
-------------> Politics/Government

4 THE PATH BETWEEN THE SEAS, by David McCullough. (Simon & Schuster.) A history of the creation of the Panama Canal; first published in 1977.
-------------> Science (Engineering)/Infrastructure

5 IN THE KINGDOM OF ICE, by Hampton Sides. (Doubleday.) An 1879 polar voyage gone terribly wrong.
------------> Disasters

6 HEAVEN IS FOR REAL, by Todd Burpo with Lynn Vincent. (Thomas Nelson.) A father recounts his 3-year-old son’s encounter with Jesus and the angels during an emergency appendectomy.
-------------> Religion

7 THE HOT ZONE, by Richard Preston. (Anchor.) The discovery of the Ebola virus, and the efforts to keep it from spreading; first published in 1994.
--------------> Science (Medicine)

8 ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK, by Piper Kerman. (Spiegel & Grau.) A memoir by a Brooklyn woman whose relationship with a drug runner gets her sentenced to a year in prison. The basis for the Netflix series, originally published in 2010.
------------->Social Issues

9 A SPY AMONG FRIENDS, by Ben Macintyre. (Crown.) An account of the British Cold War spy Kim Philby focuses on the two close friends whose trust he betrayed.
-------------> Politics/Government

10 ZELDA FITZGERALD, by Sally Cline. (Arcade.) A biography of the high priestess of the Jazz Age; first published in 2002.
-------------> Arts(Literature)

Clue (@127): I’ve added your suggestion of nature to the list, along with the other suggestions given since I last updated it. I get that you think some of this is too restrictive, but I don’t want to take off the other sciences or biographies, or anything else, at this time. Again – this list is just a compilation of everyone else’s ideas. I just thought it would be easier, as we’re discussing, to see all the suggestions together.

eta: RE: biographies, I personally agree with sjmccreary, PolymathicMonkey, Samantha_kathy, LoisB, clue (and others who may have mentioned it), that biographies would fit inside any thematic month and wouldn’t need a separate month itself.

Updated list of suggestions for a nonfictionCAT:

Philosophy/Psychology, Ancient Philosophy, Psychoanalysis, Logic,
Psychology, (human behavior/true crime)
Social Sciences, Social issues(race relations, gender issues)
Language, Communication (the invention of the telephone, or social media, or code-breaking in WWII)
Science, Discoveries, which would include scientific discoveries but also the discovery of America.
Science, Medicine
Science, Nature, environment
Science, Engineering/Infrastructure
Technology,
Arts and Recreation, (music, literature and arts)
History and Geography,
Geography, Travel / Around the World (travel, immigration, regional food, etc.)
Politics/Government, Political Science, Current Events, Biographies of World Leaders
Historical topics
War
Travel
Third World Issues
Sports and Hobbies
Food - food, nutrition, GMOs, farming, cookbooks, memoirs, foodie travelogues (or Food and clothing)
Spirituality, religion, and mythology
Pop Culture
Specific places - cities, rivers
Home & Family Life (including food & clothing,historical lifestyles, agriculture, handicrafts, and interpersonal communications)
Infrastructure (buildings, roads and bridges, cities, production of energy, etc. including natural disasters).
Disasters (separately), man-made, natural, maritime…
Wars AND disasters (When things go wrong)
Biographies
True Crime
Opinions and Ideas
Personal Essays
Wildcard

Specific suggestions:
January: a piece of nonfiction related to somewhere you want to visit one of these days
February: a piece of nonfiction related to a career, hobby, or place directly related to a family member or ancestor
March: a piece of nonfiction related to a dream (for your future) you had as a child
April: a piece somehow related to the place where you live
May: a piece you discovered via Librarything in the last year

8/22/14: List updated through post 157.

>129 countrylife: Thanks for compiling the list!

>100 MarthaJeanne: Yes, if there is no Bio (not likely) or Bio/HistoryCAT, I would love to have a biography month somewhere in a nonfiction CAT or KIT.

ETA: See, I post things before I finish reading the thread! I do that so I won't forget my train(s?) of thought as I read through... Obviously, this has already been addressed!

I don't know if there's a way to add this to Science somehow (and it's probably pretty specific, but maybe there's a way to fit it in a broader place?), but a lot of science-type stuff I like to read is about the environment somehow.

Just throwing it out there!

ETA: I see >127 clue: suggested Nature. I think that's better and would definitely encompass the environment.

> 129 Okay, that's fine, I didn't necessarily want anything deleted.

Question for the pro-biography people:

I understand why combining biographies with history is an imperfect solution, since that excludes anything that isn't included as a historical period, ie, no 21st C people. But why do you think that Non-fiction CAT needs a month dedicated to biographies? Or do you think that? It seems to me that people whose biographies are interesting have done SOMETHING - they have been performers, or scientists, or government officials, or activists, or engineers, or refugees, or criminals, whatever. There are interesting people who have done things that relate to any non-fiction topic or theme that we could come up with - many of them quite recently.

So, for a biography month, what would be the common theme? Read about a person?

I don't mind having a separate month just for biographies, if that is what makes everyone happy. I'll even pick something out and join in. But I'm having trouble understanding why it is desirable.

>134 sjmccreary: Personally, I'm with you, I don't see a need for a dedicated month when they can go under other things, or at the least, simply fit in someone's personal categories.

I think that if there's a non-fiction month, biographies can be fitted in with the themes that are chosen. If I want to read a biography of Obama, I can read it in a month that has the theme politics. If I want to read about a scientist, there's probably a month for science, or if it's an economist for economy, or something like that. Biographies about writers, musicians, etc. can be fitted into an art theme. That way, people can read a biography if they want (they can even pick a biography every month, making it a bio-CAT for themselves), but no one is restricted to just biographies.

>136 Samantha_kathy: Yes, those were my thoughts, too. But some people are still asking for a biography month in non-fictionCAT - I'm trying to understand why.

>137 sjmccreary: et al

I agree completely. In fact, I think it's likely that you could read a biography every month if the topics are properly chosen. Thanks for clarifying what I was trying to say in an earlier post. Biographies are a type of non-fiction not a monthly topic.

I'm really interested to see where the CATS go in general. On the nonfiction notes, I think that's a great list. What RidgewayGirl got me thinking about was some of those CATS that I originally said no to, and how they'd route into a larger Nonfiction area. For instance, a year of TravelCat didn't appeal to me for the same reason that FamilyCat didn't appeal to me--just too much of either. But, that said, one other way to go about the Nonfiction Cat would be to go in that direction. It would look something like:

January: a piece of nonfiction related to somewhere you want to visit one of these days
February: a piece of nonfiction related to a career, hobby, or place directly related to a family member or ancestor
March: a piece of nonfiction related to a dream (for your future) you had as a child
April: a piece somehow related to the place where you live
May: a piece you discovered via Librarything in the last year

The reads would all be incredibly different, but we might learn a bit about each other along the way. In any case, I'm late to the discussion, but I thought I'd throw that out there :)

On men and women authors, I'm split pretty evenly last time I checked, but I also know that the books I read by female authors tend to run in clusters...ie. the female authors I read, I tend to read over and over again, going back to favorites like Laurell K. Hamilton and Alice Hoffman, whereas I try more unknown male authors. I don't have any reason for this beyond chance, but it is something I've noticed in my trends.

Biographies and memoirs could very easily fall under a Dewey challenge. For instance, Mountains Beyond Mountains (one of my favorites) could be read for a 900 Geography category (Haiti) or 600 Medicine (tuberculosis). That would also give a little flexibility in fitting them in.

I obviously like reading biographies, so it's one of the first things I think of when I think of nonfiction (though I do read a lot of other nonfiction, as well). That's why I wanted it to be included (especially if we weren't having a current/21st century month for history).

But, yes, being explained as it was in >136 Samantha_kathy: does make sense and I'm ok with that.

>139 whitewavedarling: I love that list. All of a sudden a Non-FictionCAT looks like it might be fun!

>139 whitewavedarling:, >142 RidgewayGirl: I agree.

Only a few days left to vote! You can change your vote if you want to, too.

Regarding the CATWoman -- what kind of themes do we want?

I do think it would be nice if there was one month for "women's issues." It needn't be some sort of feminist treatise, but anything (any sort of fiction included) involving a woman fighting patriarchy in some way (hell, Pride and Prejudice and Zombies would probably even fall under that large umbrella).

Aside of that I'm not really sure. Do we want to deal more with the authors behind the works, with the characters, with themes in the works, all the above...?

PM, agree on at least one month for social status of women, and I'd like to see a mix of months some for authors, some for characters, like strong women leads, books that pass the Bechdel test, books that feature women and men friends not primarily sexual partners, etc

I'd be pretty scared to know how many of my books would actually pass a Bechdel test. But yes, I'm with you, I'd like a mix like that.

>146 majkia: It might be difficult to know which books fit those criteria before reading them. I'd like to see a mix of different categories, such as major award winner, African or African American women writers, Asian or Asian American women writers, a woman writer not from your home country, social status of women, speculative fiction by women, lesbian writers, classics by women, etc.

ETA a couple more ideas: women in history, women characters in a "man's world" (taking on nontraditional roles like police detective, soldier,etc.)

>145 .Monkey.: & >146 majkia: I agree with both of you. All good categories for the CATwoman.

Same goes for >148 sturlington:.

>148 sturlington: - those are all great ideas.

One of my categories for next year is Tomboys. I have a history of tomboys, a biography of a famous tomboy and a bunch of novels with main characters that are tomboys. I should be able to fit those books into some CATwoman category.

I like the categories suggested by sturlington in 148. Also we might add different kind of literature by women such as poetry, drama, and perhaps essays in addition to fiction. Women in non-traditional roles could includes explorer (such as women in aviation, or hikers or mountain climbers); a good example would be the book about the two women who crossed Antarctica (which I've already read and will not be reading again). Also women in politics.

Ditto >149 PawsforThought: ... those all sound like great ideas. I'm not sure what the Bechdel test is (?), but if something like that were a question, we could perhaps have a thread for people to suggest books (that they'd already read) for others to choose from...

>152 whitewavedarling: I looked it up, and to pass the test the book (originally film) has to have at least
1) two female characters
2) who talk to each other
3) about something other than men

That might be really hard to tell before reading the book.

I'm also not sure how I, as a normal reader, would know whether any author was lesbian (or gay) unless they made a big point of it.

>153 MarthaJeanne: Tags are a big help in discovering whether or not a book has a lesbian character. And whoever hosts that month would provide a bunch of suggestions.

As for the Bechdel test -- almost anything written by a woman would probably pass. And we can discount a few books, the Conan the Barbarian series, or anything by Ian Fleming for example.

another suggestion - female LT authors

Suggestions so far for CATWoman (please let me know if I've missed someone's suggestion):

Female LT Authors
Lesbian Lit
Bechdel Test
Poetry, Drama and Essays by Women
Women in Non-Tradional Roles
Exploring Women
Political Women
Tomboys
Award Winning Women (books written by women that won or were shortlisted for awards)
Asian/Asian American Women
African/African American Women
Books about Women's Social Status
Foreign Women (a writer not from your home country)
Speculating Women (speculative fiction by women (also SFF?))
Classical Women
Historical Women
Women in a Man's World
Books about Relationships that aren't Romance
Fighting the Patriarchy

>153 MarthaJeanne: It's pretty easy to google lesbian authors (though I'd bisexual and transgender authors to this as well) and get some inspiration.

The same goes for books passing the Bechdel test. Obviously not all books that do pass will show up on a list (that'd be impossible) but I'm sure there are lists out there.

>154 RidgewayGirl: I'd say that " almost anything written by a woman would probably pass" is far from true. Sadly.
Also, the original version meant for movies stated that the two female characters have to be named (not just "woman at the coffee shop" or whatever). Translated to the literary world, I'd say it'd be something like "substantial characters", meaning that they appear in more than just one or two small scenes and couldn't be easily substituted.

Incidently, Alison Bechdel would be a good choice for lesbian author.

Also notable is the offshoot "Mako Mori test," due to Pacific Rim and the fact that she was a strong female lead but the movie fails the Bechdel test, which means the movie has- a) at least one female character, who b) gets her own narrative, that c) is not about supporting a man's story.

The votes are in. The top eleven remains, for discussion and the final vote down to three. I'll open a new thread so that the final vote is at the top of the thread. Here are the results, in order of popularity, with the number of YES votes each received.

36 RandomCAT
32 HistoryCAT
29 CATWoman
28 SFFFCAT
27 Non-FictionCAT
22 ListCAT
17 Bio/HistoryCAT
17 GenreCAT
15 GeoCAT
15 AwardCAT
14 P&PCAT

And here are the ones that didn't make the cut:

13 ForeignCAT
12 HorrorCAT
9 ShakespeareCAT
7 CoverCAT
7 TravelCAT
5 BioCAT
4 PoetryCAT
4 HomeCAT
3 FamilyCAT
3 DreamCAT