Planning for 2015 -- The Bingo DOG

There were bingo cards popping up in various threads this year, leading to the idea of us coming up with our own card for next year. Here's the place to plan and discuss the 2015 Category Challenge Bingo Card.

Volunteers to fill a Bingo square:

MarthaJeanne
RidgewayGirl
PawsforThought
PolymathicMonkey
cyderry
Samantha_kathy
LoisB
DeltaQueen50
LittleTaiko
christina_reads
BookLizard
majkia
sturlington
-Eva-
electrice

Er well, I think we need a bit of direction. How about settling the main two questions first:
1) Is there going to be a "free space" or are we filling all 25 squares? We need to know how many items we're to come up with. What do people prefer?

2) How are they being chosen? Everyone can submit one idea? Everyone can submit as many ideas as they can come up with? Voting? Random generator? Anything else I'm not thinking of?

Determine how the ideas will be chosen, and then start working on the ideas themselves.

The free space could be "read a CAT"?

As for how to choose; we do have a lot of people participating. I think we could fill most of the spaces on a volunteer basis. No idea about any left-over spaces - maybe then voting or random generator? Voting on all of them would take years!

Hahaha well, it could be a simple -these are the ideas, yes or no- and the top numbers win, wouldn't need to be totally debated over first and all that. But it could get a bit chaotic, indeed. Lol. If there's not too many people who want to fill a space, then volunteering would certainly be easiest. I think it'll be a lot easier to fill than the monthly thread volunteers, though, I mean in this case it's not actually running anything, just coming up with a simple one-off thing.

It does sound like having volunteers each fill a space is the easiest way. If after a deadline has passed there are still spaces, then a second run.

On the other hand, if too many people want to contribute, a second card could be made.

I volunteer to fill a square.

Once again I'm going to offer up my services of creating a bingo card. I know there was at least one more person willing to do that so there could be several cards to choose from.

Now, the spaces. I think the easiest thing would be to just ask for ideas and make a list of them all. If there are more than 24/25 we'll have a vote and the ones that get the most votes stay in.

Yup I think multiple people making them would be nice, variety is the spice of life and all that. ;) This would come later but I suppose we may as well discuss it now before the ideas come along and the things move that direction, so, do we want to make sure all cards would have everything in the same spots? Does it matter if they're different?

Actually, thinking about it, I bet not everyone will even attempt to fill their whole card. Surely there will be some that some of us simply won't read, for various reasons. So maybe having the cards sorted differently would be nice, in that people could kind of eye them and see which ones would work out for them to be able to "win" here & there, you know?

My only hesitation on this is that when we vote we're likely to end up with squares that overlap or infringe on other squares, as happened with the mysteryCAT and geoCAT.

So is there some way we can try to select squares that are different enough rather than just popular, and are more clear-cut rather than mushy around the edges?

I have no idea how to do this, you understand....

Also, is there a way we can avoid repeating winning CATS if we can help it? Nothing wrong with having something 'like' a yearly CAT but exact repeats might be not so much fun.

>7 .Monkey.: I hadn't thought about that but it's a good idea. Doesn't matter to me (or anyone else making cards) which category goes in which space, it's just a matter of moving text boxes.

I would vote for the middle space being a free space, or as RidgewayGirl suggested, "Read a CAT". Otherwise there's a risk of the middle space being something you don't want to read and that'll make it a lot harder to "win".

And "my" bingo card will be a BingoCAT. Just so you know. ;)

>8 majkia: I'm sure we can talk about any issues surrounding the squares if/when they show up. I'm sure people won't have a problem with discussing the squares and maybe modifying them slightly to make sure they're not overlapping or fuzzy.

Also, do we want a 'theme' for the bingo card so the squares are sort of related? Or not?

I was wondering about a theme but decided to leave it out. I figured since the CATs and most of our own challenges already have themes, that maybe enough was enough and it should just be the entirely arbitrary thing that it is by nature, lol. Plus picking a theme would be even more discussion & voting! :P

I think if there's a theme it might be difficult to make the squares different enough from each other.

Seems like the popular idea is just to let everybody submit ideas for the various squares, which I'm good with. I'm also in favor of the free space.

If there are too many ideas for the number of squares, I'd prefer to use a random generator to pick the ones we include on the Bingo cards. Voting on 25 different ideas for squares just seems like a lot of work to me -- especially if some of the ideas are similar to each other -- whereas choosing randomly will be really easy.

Also, I have been imagining that everyone will be working from the same card. But it seems like some people want to have variation among the cards...I'm OK with that too, but how would it work? Making multiple cards seems, again, like a lot more work. :) And if we are all trying to fill the same 25 squares, I think that will generate more discussion. What are people's thoughts on this?

>14 christina_reads: We're not talking about different cards in the way you seem to be saying. We're talking about making cards. As in, open up GIMP, Photoshop, whatever, and make the card. No one is talking about having 50 or 75 or whatever squares out there.

>15 .Monkey.: Ohhhhh. So by "different" you mean "each person opens up his/her own graphic design program and creates the actual card, but we all use the same squares." That would definitely make my last paragraph in #14 irrelevant. :)

Haha, yup. There's at least a few of us who do stuff like that, so we may as well get some different styles to choose from, and like I mentioned earlier, maybe it'll help people pick one that allows them the chance to "win" where some others wouldn't. :)

>17 .Monkey.: OK, but now I'm a bit confused again. I'm all for having different visual styles for the cards. But would this also mean that there would be different topics in the squares (i.e., some cards would have a "Read a book older than you" square, but others wouldn't)? Or the same topics but in different squares (i.e., "Read a book older than you" would be in B1 on one card but in O5 on another)? Or the same topics in the same squares, and thus identical except for visual style variations?

the same topics but in different squares (i.e., "Read a book older than you" would be in B1 on one card but in O5 on another)
This is what we've been discussing.

>19 .Monkey.: Ah, OK. Yeah, I'm fine with that!

I think when gathering ideas for squares, it would be a good idea to limit it to 1 idea per person. Then, when we have a list, we can combine ideas that are too similar - say "read a mystery" and "read a historical mystery" are too similar, so we'd combine them. The big question then would be, do we want more specific squares (historical mystery) or do we want more general squares (mystery) when we combine ideas.

Looking forward to trying this out this year. I agree that one suggestion per person would be best and see how it all falls out from there.

I am always up for a reading challenge but I am also computer inept so I am really looking forward to seeing what PawsforThought is going to put together for us.

I'm intrigued to see how this Dog plays. I'm inclined to prefer PolymathicMonkey's "these are the ideas, yes or no- and the top numbers win, wouldn't need to be totally debated (@ 4), rather than a generic randomizer.

Also like the "Free Space = CAT read".

I don't understand how conversations and shared reads can happen much with multiple cards in play at the same time.

But, mainly, I'm just following the conversation and looking to see what we end up with.

I like the idea of a group Bingo card, but I'd like it to be general enough so that everyone can participate. My suggestion is that each square finishes the phrase: "Read a book . . . " So instead of "a historical mystery" the square would be "about a historical mystery." Subtle difference, but it would allow people to interpret it how they like, so someone who reads mostly nonfiction could read a history book.

The other thing is do we want to discuss guidelines for the squares? For example, "no squares about the cover of the book" or "no squares that require a certain number of pages."

I participated in the 100 Books in 2014 Bingo challenge this year. One of the members (LShelby)generated the Bingo card that was used by the group, and it provided the capability to place semi-transparent markers over the squares that you had completed. Here's a link to that thread:

http://www.librarything.com/topic/164113

If we could use her card with our own squares, I think this would be a great activity!

I'm hoping to do this one, as well. Though I currently have nothing to really comment on, I wanted to post, so I can easily find any replies to the thread. :-)

>26 LoisB: - how did they get the semi-tranparent markers to work? Would we need photoshop or other fancy programs?

>28 VioletBramble: She apparently made some sort of utility for it. I could try asking my husband if he'd be able to replicate something like that (which seems likely), but I'm afraid it's out of my own range of abilities.

>24 countrylife: I don't understand how conversations and shared reads can happen much with multiple cards in play at the same time.
Please see the above conversation with @christina_reads in >14 christina_reads:-20

The biggest question seems to be whether we'll allow volunteers to freely choose the topic for a square or do we want parameters set, either by voting on which ideas we like or by setting parameters so that the card isn't too challenging or too easy.

What do you think? Will it ruin the card for you if there are a few spots you're unlikely to fill? Is the card more interesting if it's difficult or something we can all easily race to complete?

A good place to start might be by seeing how many people we have volunteering to fill a space. If we have more than 24 volunteers, then voting on the top suggestions makes sense, otherwise not. So far, only one person (MarthaJeanne) has volunteered. So line up and tell us if you'll come up with a square. I'll put the list of volunteers on the first post and we'll see where we are in a week.

>23 DeltaQueen50: You're making me nervous now.

>26 LoisB: I don't have the tech capabilities to do something similar to the utility she used but if anyone else does, that sounds good. The card she used is the Random House one used in several of the groups this year.

>28 VioletBramble: They're using some sort of online utility that you just slightly change the URL code and then get the bingo card edited to your needs.
If you want to download the bingo image and mark your progress "at home" you'll need some for of image editing software (doesn't have to be something as advanced as Photoshop, as long as it has a brush tool where you can decide for yourself the size of the brush and the opaqueness of the colour (I believe even MS Paint let you do this) you can "dot" the squares). There are (free) online editing sites where you can do it, too.

>30 RidgewayGirl: I could probably come up with a square, so I'll volunteer.
Personally, I don't mind if there are a few squares that are a bit more difficult to fill (we have a whole year to do it) but I'd rather it's not something that is more or less impossible for me personally unless I want to torture myself. It would be nice if I could fill the bingo card without being forced to read a genre I can't stand (like gore or romance novels or what have you).
The idea in >25 BookLizard: about making the squares finish the sentence "Read a book..." is a nice one, I think.

>30 RidgewayGirl: I'd said in the previous thread where it was first mentioned that I'd do one, especially since the idea originated due to my "timeless" question. :)

I'd prefer things not deal with covers or explicit publishing years (something like "between 1900-1930" or whatever would be alright, though, but not "in 2015" or "last year"), or something broad like genres. I'd like to be able to fill them all, but I expect there may be at least a couple I'm not interested in, unless maybe I can sort of flex them to squish something to fit. I'll live, if that's not possible. But I think a medium-line would be good -- not stupidly easy that almost anything would work, but not so difficult that jumping through hoops is needed to find something suitable.

Should we all specify what we would not like to see on a bingo card? Is that a direction we want to go? Sure, there are topics that could be put out there and my reaction might be that I don't want to read that, but isn't the point of doing a bingo card to stretch us and that it can be "completed" by doing a line (five squares) with several options on how to do so (horizontally, diagonally, vertically). I know a lot of us are compulsive completists, but still!

If we all list things we don't like, we'll end up with the most boring, general card imaginable. I expect to find a few squares to be an effort to fill and a few I'll just skip because I don't want to read that particular thing, but that's the fun of it, isn't it? Otherwise, we're best off just filling out our own personal cards. If someone wants to specify "a werewolf romance originally written in Swedish with a blue cover" I suspect most people will skip it, but what fun for those who are actually able to find a book to fit! And a bingo card of only acceptable topics will end up with topics like "read a book with "The" in the title," "read a book with a pretty cover," and "read a book with a mystery in it." In other words, for every book I read, there will be several squares it could fit in.

But if most people want a series of guidelines, let's do it.

I'm not talking about specifics ("I don't like books about birds") but broader things. Don't be explicit about dates, it's horrible to try and find something in an explicit year (and not all of us buy brand new books, hence 2014-5 excluded altogether). Don't do just "fantasy," that's way too broad, do "something with a nonhuman race." And so forth.

>34 .Monkey.: I agree with everything you said.

>33 RidgewayGirl: 'And a bingo card of only acceptable topics will end up with topics like "read a book with "The" in the title," "read a book with a pretty cover," and "read a book with a mystery in it." In other words, for every book I read, there will be several squares it could fit in.'

There are people who don't usually read mysteries. And people who read in other languages don't have 'the'. We already have people not wanting the cover to be used, so your acceptable topics won't work!

You just can't please all the people all the time. But if most of the topics work for me, I can probably find a way to do the others if I really want to, as long as those who pick them watch their wording.

I said I'd prefer no cover stuff, for the reasons discussed in the other thread (by myself and others) about doing covers as one of the CATs. If people seriously want one or two dealing with covers, whatever. The things I'm serious about are the ones mentioned above that would make the card actually work better, they have nothing to do with personal preferences.

Nobody has said that a particular topic is forbidden or anything of the sort. We've only stated what our personal preferences would be, and things that are excluding people (like very narrow genres) or made the possible books selections so broad there's no point in actually having the square in the first place (anything could fit).

>31 PawsforThought: I'm hoping that someone with current technical abilities could contact her and ask if we could use her program, script, utility, or whatever it's called. My technical skills are so out-of-date that I don't feel comfortable even acting as an intermediary (Being retired for 5 years does that to you). I will leave a note on her profile page indicating that we are interested in using it and see what she says.

>39 LoisB: Great. PM was going to check with her husband, too, but the more possibilities, the better.

Would there be interest in a completely separate Bingo card for non-fiction catagories?

I read about 50:50 fiction and non-fiction so I've been thinking about this idea for a while now. It interests me enough that I'll probably generate one for myself but the more, the merrier, so I thought I'd see if anyone else was interested.

My hope is that most topics will work for either.

I'll volunteer to fill a square. I've actually got an idea for it already, so it's not a problem at all. Just don't ask me to make a card, I'm not that good with computers :D.

>41 streamsong: I'm not opposed to the idea, but I don't know that I'd really read enough nonfic to make it feasible. If the card were smaller, maybe...

>42 MarthaJeanne: Yes, that's a possibility. I would probably do the general card as well as a NF once. I know the 75'er's thread has a general and a YA card and people choose either or both.

>44 .Monkey.: You wouldn't have to do a blackout for a Bingo - a single line would only be 4 books if the center square is free, 5 if not.

Finally popping in about the BINGO card. I could do a square if needed.

Question: Are Audiobooks acceptable? E-Books? or do we have to have actual, physical books?

My personal preferences would be not to specify whether a book is Fiction or NonFiction. I also know that some people don't want to read large books but I do think that there should be a minimum number of pages. I say that because I'm sure that I could find a book with less 50 pages on any topic at the library. That seems to defeat the purpose, but saying that the books have to be at least 150 pages means there is at least an effort required to read it.

>47 cyderry: I'd be very surprised if anyone had any objections to people reading non-paper books. A books is a book.

I don't know if a minimum amount of pages is necessary. We're all book lovers here and if someone wants to read the shortest book they can find to fit a square, well, that's up to them. It's not (really) a contest. We don't win anything if we get a bingo (other than honour and pride). And people who want to read more substantial books than 50-60 pages will do that anyway. I'm going to try and read quite a few plays next year and as they are generally rather short compared to books, a lot of those probably won't work with "at least 150 pages".

>48 PawsforThought: Agreed.

I'll volunteer to do a square!

We're up to seven volunteers!

I'd be ok with a nonfiction one, as I read both fiction and non, but I think if they are mixed on the card, or if either one will work for a square, that would be fine, too.

I agree with >48 PawsforThought:. Ebooks and audio should all be fine. And, really it's your own challenge for yourself, so if you want to give yourself a limit (or not), I think that's ok.

I believe I have a bite on putting together a utility for the card marking. My husband hasn't done that sort of thing (he's only a for-fun programming type) so he's not sure he could, but my friend is pretty much one of the best there is and he said it should be too hard for him to do. So as long as I can nudge him into it once the cards are created, it should be all good.

>53 .Monkey.: Whohoo!

I will volunteer for a square.

I'll volunteer for a square!

Personally, I don't read lots of nonfiction, so I probably wouldn't participate in a separate nonfiction Bingo. But I'm very much in favor of a Bingo card that will allow for both fiction and nonfiction!

As for the actual content of the Bingo squares, I agree with both RidgewayGirl and PolymathicMonkey. The topics shouldn't be so general that they're boring, but they also shouldn't be so specific that they're impossible to complete. I'd trust anyone in this group to come up with something appropriate!

I'm definitely in for a square. Just let me know when you need my suggestion.

34 & 37> Agreed.

56> I'd also trust most people in the group to come up with something appropriate as in not too easy or not too hard.

I suggested "Read a book . . . " mainly to avoid genres. Some people don't read certain genres or read mostly nonfiction. I think this would qualify as a serious issue (see post #37) because it could affect whether or not people participate in the Bingo challenge and not just whether they can complete a certain square.

I don't think this is a race or a contest, and I would hope people wouldn't be trying to challenge each other to find the most obscure book ever. I don't know about the rest of you, but I read for fun and I come on LibraryThing to connect with other readers and talk about books. I say the more merrier and the only "challenge" I'm interested in is challenging myself to make connections that I might not make otherwise. I'm not interested in challenging myself to read books I don't want to read - that's what high school was for! ;-)

My suggestion is that instead of voting, we set up a wiki. Each person who volunteers to do a square would post their suggestion and if others want to comment/object/suggest rewording, they can do so underneath. Then when everything has been decided, we can delete the comments, maybe put the final squares in alphabetical order, then use the wiki to list the books read for each square.

Oh, and I volunteer for a square.

>58 BookLizard: Hear, hear! :)

I like the idea of a wiki. Never been much of a user of those things (except for posting what I'm reading in the TIOLI challenges and such) but I'm sure I could get used to it.
I just hope the extra step (away from this thread) won't discouraging people from taking part (as it sometimes can do).

And seeing a list of what other people are reading for the squares can be helpful if your mind is a bit stuck.

I've already volunteered to do a square but think that may have been lost in the shuffle

Sorry, majkia. List should be up to date now. If your name's not up there and you'd like it to be, just speak up. Twice, if necessary.

We're halfway there! :D

I don't think this is a race or a contest, and I would hope people wouldn't be trying to challenge each other to find the most obscure book ever.

Very much agreed. I mean I think it should be "challenging" in that you can't just pick up any ol' book and have it match half the squares, it should take a little effort to pick out things that fit, but it shouldn't be a big ordeal to find something. And yes, I agree that at least most of the squares should be able to be filled by both fic or nonfic alike.

Peeking in and happy to see the Bingo discussion in full force! Looking forward to seeing the finished product!

I would like to see the free square remain and I really like Christina's comment that "If there are too many ideas for the number of squares, I'd prefer to use a random generator to pick the ones we include on the Bingo cards."

I also like BookLizard's suggestion that each square finishes the phrase: "Read a book . . . " So instead of "a historical mystery" the square would be "about a historical mystery."

>65 lkernagh: Ditto what Lori said

I'll volunteer to fill a square.

I wouldn't mind if it was more of a challenge and I have to stretch a little to fill a square (but perhaps I'll regret that if I'm stuck with one square left and no way to fill it...). :)

I'll volunteer to do a square as well.

>68 -Eva-: You can always make it more challenging for yourself if you find the LT card too easy. Setting page limits or deciding that a book must be in a particular genre or written by someone from a certain area...

I volunteer too to fill a square

Nine volunteers to go and we'll have every square spoken for!

I agree with everyone else that the squares should be challenging enough to be meaningful, but flexible enough that they don't restrict people to a specific genre. "Read a book about", "read a book involving", etc. sound like good guidelines.

Okay, so now for some voting.

Does that cover our discussion so far? If you think something else should be voted on, please let me know, or just put it up for a vote yourself. Vote will be up until the 24th, with the votes being counted early on the 25th.

I find it very difficult to vote on these matters. I wouldn't say there should be rules but we do seem to roughly agree on guidelines. Is that the same thing in this case? And the second one, would that mean that whatever bingo squares people come up with, we are not to make comments or suggestions that might make them work better? I might have misinterpreted but I got the impression people were okay with constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement.

I wasn't sure what we wanted, hence the voting. Should I have worded things differently?

>78 PawsforThought: I agree: I like the idea of guidelines, but not rules.

>79 RidgewayGirl: I do think it's very strongly worded now.

I've changed the word "rules" to "guidelines." Is that better? If that affects your vote, please change it accordingly.

'They're just guidelines anyway'

I like constructive criticism but I think the person doing the square should have the last word.

I'm thinking >76 RidgewayGirl: could be worded better. Does anyone have a suggestion on what to say?

>82 RidgewayGirl: Works better for me, at least.

>83 majkia: Agreed.

>84 RidgewayGirl: Well, I don't know of a better phrasing for that exakt meaning. And everyone should okay every square? I don't think we'll ever get that. Maybe a majority?
Anyone else?

I've altered the wording of >76 RidgewayGirl: slightly. Not sure if it's exactly what we're aiming for, but it's a bit better. What do you think?

>85 PawsforThought: I agree we will never get consensus on every square.

I'm also concerned about the wording "Read a Book About" or "Read a Book Involving". What is wrong with "Read a book by a French author" or "Read a book written in the 19th century"?

LoisB, the idea behind that suggestion is that there was concern that not using that wording might lead to squares that were harder to fill, if the reader did not like the genre or topic suggested. This way they could fudge things a bit to find a book that, while not technically what the square required, was close enough to work. It was a work-around to make the bingo card easier for everyone, regardless of their reading preferences.

Is that right? That's what I took from the discussion, but I'm happy to be corrected.

>86 RidgewayGirl: I think it's better phrased now, though I'm not sure we'll ever get a "perfect" phrasing for it.

>87 LoisB: / >88 RidgewayGirl: I think the original suggestion was for it to just be "Read a book..." and then it was encouraged that people find ending to that phrase that were more inclusive than "longer than 500 pages" or whatever.

I voted "No" on the phrases "Read A book About" and "Read a Book Involving" as that seems to limit us to only Bingo squares that deal with the subject matter of the book. I like the phrase "Read A Book" much better as expands upon the possibilities.

Hi!

I'm the person who did the Bingo Card utility that is being used in the 100 in 2014 group.

The idea was to make updating your card fast, easy and convenient. You don't have to alter any images or upload anything. You just copy the card url, and add the numbers of the boxes you want marked.

I can easily provide the same service to any other group. :)

The utility is designed to handle as many different cards as you want to play with, as long as all the cards are the same size/shape.

All I need to set it up for you, is the card image(s). Just have someone drop me a message with a link when someone has the card (or cards) posted, and I'll get it set up.

(Although... if the person making the cards uses the cards we're already using over in the 100 group as a template, that would be a time-saver for me. I wouldn't have to work out new marker positions.) :)

As long as I'm working with cards that are the same size, setting them up is fast and easy. I upload a card image and add one line of code for each card being used. It's no problem at all.

>91 LShelby: Thank you, that's very kind.
I'm one of the people who has offered to make a card. I was planning on using the Random House card (that's been used in the 75's group and seems to be the one you used in the 100's group, too) as a guide but haven't started tinkering yet.

To the other people who were planning on making cards: The Random House cards were 1146 × 1219. I was, as I said, planning on using those cards as a guide for "my" card, does anyone have a problem with us deciding to all do that (and putting the bingo grid mark in the same place)?

>92 PawsforThought: I think that is fine, and I thank you for doing it! I'm a firm believer in the "if you don't like the way I do it, do it yourself" motto for all volunteer efforts.

>91 LShelby: Thank you for offering your assistance. I think it will be a fun challenge, and I know from experience how easy it is to use your card utility.

BTW: LShelby is a LT author!

>91 LShelby: So 563px × 600px with the same top/side margins?

>92 PawsforThought: That was the size of their original image, it's not the size used. You could work on it at that size, then you'd need to shrink it down when you're done.

If my friend does make the utility then I will use that instead, to make the cards more different.

>94 .Monkey.: Ah. Okay. It's the size of the ones I downloaded to I assumed there was no difference.

Right, but have you looked at it that size? It would take up all, or a good portion of, your monitor. Which, obviously, we cannot have the images in our threads do. lol. If you look at the properties of the images in that thread you can see what size they are. :)

>96 .Monkey.: I tend not to think much about the size a image looks like in a thread as you can choose how big you want it to appear when you post in on LT.
When I've used the image myself (to mark squares finished) I've used the full sized version.

Question: Are we planning on more than 1 card? If we all use the same card content, why do we need more than one card?

Variety is the spice of life.

>99 .Monkey.: LOL!

>98 LoisB: More than one person has volunteered to do cards and in addition to variety being the spice of life (as PM said), there is also the fact that with multiple cards you can jumble the squares and LT:ers can pick the card that works best for them (makes it easier for them to get a bingo).

;) And yup, as I explained near the beginning of the thread, it allows people not only to choose different styles, but to choose the organization of squares that they prefer. Since the only "prize" involved is the joy of "winning" when we complete any of the various sorts of bingos, only good can come of being able to choose from various card options. :)

What? There's no prize?

Erm... you get to treat yourself to a new book? xD

>101 PawsforThought: >102 .Monkey.: Sorry, I'm being dense. Are we using the same 25 squares and just rearranging them? I guess I'm confused because all the other Bingos that I have participated in used the same card.

>105 LoisB: Haha, you're not being dense -- I had this same question! Check out messages #14-20 above.

>106 christina_reads: Thanks - I had forgotten that conversation!

>94 .Monkey.: LShelby: So 563px × 600px with the same top/side margins?

That's it.
The important thing is that the boxes end up in the same places, so that when the utility adds the markers, it puts them in the right spot.

I can rewrite the marker placement bits if there's some reason to want the card size changed. It'll just take a little longer. :)

>108 LShelby: Thank you so much for giving us a hand.

So, we're agreed on trusting each person to come up with a Bingo square on their own. We still need nine more volunteers, although we could just randomly choose from our current list of fifteen, nine people to design two squares. Does this seem reasonable?

Who would like to be the keeper of the squares? It would be easiest if one person could collect all the squares on their profile page, and then send lists to everyone designing a bingo card.

I think you should first ask who has two ideas.

I have no problem compiling the list and sending it to whoever wants. I'd been planning on doing it for myself anyhow :P

I'd also do 2 squares if we need.

I can do two squares, if needed.

Are we coming up with ideas for squares only? Or are we designing the squares. I'm a bit confused (nothing new!)

Just the idea, majkia. The "Read a book in which no one dies" type sentence.

I could do two squares as well, although we do need to make sure that if everyone comes up with 1 (or 2) ideas as assigned, we don't have the same idea from different people. If that happens, we still come up short. Maybe have everyone give 2 ideas, in order of preference for a square and eliminate the (too) similar ideas? We might not even end up with extras then.

>116 Samantha_kathy: That's a good idea.

>112 .Monkey.: Do you want to set up a separate topic for us to post our Square ideas Or, post them here? Or, PM you?

I like the idea of two per person and then weed out the closest ones.

Is anyone unwilling to do two squares? Should we just let PM weed out the most similar, or do we want this to be a group endeavor?

I'm fine with 2 square ideas. Maybe once everyone submits them, the full list can be posted here, and then we can collectively weed out duplicates? Or is that too much? :)

No, that would be easy enough.

I wouldn't think we'd have too much disagreement on weeding out near duplicates. If we have more than we need though, maybe we need random.org to select which ones go in the bingo card.

It might also be a case of combining similar topics to form one square that incorporates them both.

So everyone will drop their ideas on me and then I post the list once completed for group perusal? It works for me. Are we setting a -submit ideas by- date?

>125 .Monkey.: That was my next question! I'm still thinking about my square topics!

>125 .Monkey.: Just to be clear, all the volunteers will send you a private message with 2 square ideas. Is that how you'd like the ideas given to you?

That's fine with me. :)

Okay, everyone, leave a message on PolymathicMonkey's profile page with your two square ideas. Shall we set a deadline of August 31st? PM, if we all manage to get our ideas in before that date, feel free to let us know!

And thank you, PolymathicMonkey, for being willing to head this up!

I left my two ideas for the squares. I'm actually pretty excited about the bingo - maybe more than the CATs because it has more possibilities - single line bingo hitting just some of the squares or full black-out, or an X or +. Fun!

I've left one idea. If I come up with a second I'll leave it later.

>129 RidgewayGirl: Sure thing, and no problem. :)

Well, haven't you been chatty while I've been at work...

I still have some mulling over to do so I'll post my square ideas later.

I've left my two ideas, I am looking forward to seeing the list. :)

I have to give mine at least a little thought. It's been a busy day.

I sent in my two suggestions - this should be quite fun!

I've sent my two suggestions, looking forward the results.

I've left my suggestions, too.

And me as well.

Y'all have fun. I'll be running my precinct Tuesday. Assuming I survive Primary Day (and the way things have been going so far, that's a fair question) I'll check in on Wednesday to see the latest.

I'm sure you are all aware of the ongoing CAT discussions for next year, but just in case...

For anyone interested in shaping next year's CATs, final voting is happening on this thread: http://www.librarything.com/topic/179634.

Sorry if you see this more than once; I wanted to post on several popular threads to give as many people an opportunity to vote as possible!

I just submitted my squares! Now I'm really excited to see how the card will shape up! :)

>142 christina_reads: I know! I'm hoping that there is a good mix of easy, medium and very hard squares.

It's definitely an interesting list. So far there's only two different submissions that have another similar "match," though they're slightly different.

How many do you have so far? (ie How hard should I be working at figuring out another?)

>145 MarthaJeanne: I've got 20, and a few people still to drop theirs in the hat, so unless a few more wind up overlapping it shouldn't be a problem if you don't do a second one. :)

I'm excited about this!

Me Too!

I really can't wait to see what the squares will be!

Only two left to get their ideas in! :)

Only one more person. Though, right now we have 26 ideas, 2 of which are the near-doubles, which would make the proper 24 that we need...

Yay. Almost done!

Did we ever come to a decision regarding the free square? There was talk about having it be "Read a CAT" but I don't think we ever decided. Should we have a vote? Either just "free square" or "read a CAT". Or something else?

Good idea, Paws. Here we go again. Unless anyone objects, can we say that the vote closes Tuesday night?

One vote each, folks (although that's pretty much understood) and only YES votes count.

I think everyone will read at least one book that qualifies for one CAT (or KIT, what if it's "Read a CAT/KIT"?) at some point in the year. It doesn't even have to be during the specific month, as far as I'm concerned. So I think it should be CAT/KIT because that's a given anyhow.

It doesn't actually matter to me, as I'm hoping most - if not all - of my reading for next year will be CATs, but I think it'd be fun if the middle square was "Read a CAT". And it sort of ties the Bingo in with teh other CATs, so that's a nice bonus.

BINGO DOG - center reads DEVOUR A CAT?

>157 cyderry: In that case I'm definitely doing a BingoCAT!

oh YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>157 cyderry: Ok, I have to vote that one down!!!!! ;-)

>157 cyderry: {Like}

I think you all took that the wrong way - haven't you ever devoured a book?

Alright! All ideas are in, and we're in luck, once we choose the wording we want for the three ideas that have similar counterparts, we will have the exact right number.

So, here we go, 2015 Bingo!

Read a book translated from a language you don't speak/read
Read a book originally written in a language other than English
Read a book someone else chooses for you
Read a book picked for you by a fellow LT member
Read a book you loved as a child
Read a book that reminds you of your childhood
Read a book about a subject/topic of which you're (mostly) unfamiliar
Read a book about autism
Read a book about language(s)
Read a book about/with scientists
Read a book with a natural disaster
Read a book centered around a major historical event
Read a book about/with correspondence, epistolary, or letters
Read a book with a LGBTQ main character
Read a book with a protagonist of the opposite gender
Read a book set in a country other than your own
Read a book where an animal is of importance
Read a book that is based on a fairy tale or myth
Read a book with a mythical creature
Read a book where prophecy, signs, or portents are part of the plot
Read a book that's a genre bender
Read a book inspired by another piece of fiction
Read a book that's completely outside your comfort zone
Read a book published in 1915
Read a book whose author has the same first name as your mother or grandmother
Read a book you've owned for more than 1 year
Read a book by an LT Author

As you can see, the first six are the near-doubles. They're not identical, but they're close enough, and since we need 24 ideas...

>163 .Monkey.: Yeah, interesting ideas ! Thanks for collecting the suggestions PM :)

Read a book translated from a language you don't speak/read and Read a book originally written in a language other than English : The first one will work better as it would allow the non-native english speaker to read a translation of a foreign language other than english.

Read a book someone else chooses for you and Read a book picked for you by a fellow LT member : The first one also, as someone else could also be a LT member.

Read a book you loved as a child and Read a book that reminds you of your childhood : The second open more possibility, so yep I'm for the second choice.

ETA : Change my input as I didn't read carefully the post of PM. I've the pleasure to have a double otitis for the price of one so, I might be a little bit confused at time ;)

Awesome list! As for the near-doubles, here's my suggestions:

Read a book translated from a language you don't speak/read
Read a book originally written in a language other than English

Make it into: Read a book that's translated (as in, the translated version, wording might need to be slightly better) --> this will encourage people to read a language they don't speak/read (their own language wouldn't be translated) and eliminate English-written novels, unless you read the novel in a translated version.

Read a book someone else chooses for you
Read a book picked for you by a fellow LT member

For this one, I'd go with the first one. Someone else still includes a fellow LT member, but includes other options for letting someone else pick.

Read a book you loved as a child
Read a book that reminds you of your childhood

For this one, I suggest going with the second one. The first one locks you into reading a book that you read as a child, many of them will have been children's books, which might not be everyone's cup of tea now. On the other hand, a book that reminds you of your childhood can be a book you loved as a child, a book you haven't read yet by an author you loved as a child, or a book with a theme/setting that reminds you of your childhood. It's a bit broader and since the list contains several fairly constrained ones (like a book published in 1915), one that's a bit broader might be nice.

>165 Samantha_kathy: Good job combining the similar ones, Samantha_kathy

I like : Read a book translated from a language you do not read/speak. For the first pair.

I like : Read a book someone else chooses for you. Agreed, that can certainly be an LT member

I like: Read a book that reminds you of your childhood. Memories can be fun things (at least the good ones). Others maybe not so much, but still evoke a not so happy childhood.

Also, I'm scratching my head about the read a book whose author shares a name with mother or grandmother. I had only one living grandmother, and frankly I can't remember her name (Polish name). My mother's name is also problematic as it is Polish too. Can we maybe add something like Translations of names allowed?

>167 majkia: Ok, I would have the same problem there, both names would be Algerian and there's not a lot of books out there that I know of that would fit ...

What a fun list! And now I'm dying to get started. It'll be hard to ignore it until January.

Since I was the one who suggested "Read a book originally written in a language other than English," I'd like to say that the other suggestion, "Read a book translated from a language you do not read/speak" is much better.

I prefer that an LT member be the one choosing since one of the reasons we do these type challenges is to connect us to each other.

As for the last, I don't know.

Majkia, I laughed at your concern a bit -- my maternal grandmother's name was Lodema. Luckily, I have my paternal grandmother and mother who have easier names. But we always allow everyone to interpret the challenges as they choose, so there's no reason to not count the English version of a name.

These look like a lot of interesting categories. Some of them will be very challenging, but I think what I'm going to do is read as normal and match my reads to squares as they come up instead of trying to find books that "fit". It will also be fun--and probably inspiring--to see what everyone else picks to read.

> 163 My thoughts:

Read a book translated from a language you don't speak/read
Read a book originally written in a language other than English
Read a book someone else chooses for you
Read a book picked for you by a fellow LT member
Read a book you loved as a child
Read a book that reminds you of your childhood

- Between the first two, I think the first is better to encompass people who speak all languages.

- Between the next two, I like "someone else chooses", so it can be a personal recommendation or someone from another site... Although, as I think about it, for people who aren't as social here, it might be a way for people to connect to other LTers, so maybe I'm more open about that one.

- Of the last two, I like "reminds you of your childhood", in case there are some who don't reread books, or are afraid of ruining the experience if it doesn't live up.

>167 majkia: >168 electrice: What if it included father or grandfather (more options)? I definitely think it should include translated names.

>172 LibraryCin: Great suggestion, this would work for me :)

The 2015 Category Challenge has been created and can be found OVER HERE.

/drive-by post

>172 LibraryCin:, 173 Me too!

I can see some easy and some challenges which appeals to me. I might even need help with a couple. Now to decide how to fit it into my 15 challenge.

I would definitely agree that including more relatives is better. What if it were "read a book by an author who shares a name with someone you're descended from" or something like that? For most people that's not going to be further back than great grandparents anyhow.

I like all the squares! Some will definitely be a bit harder to get (for me, the LT author as I don't read very many books by people who are still alive, much less authors active on LT) but they all look interesting and sort-of doable.

I agree with the general consensus regarding the double-posts.
Books that reminds you of your childhood, book written in a language you don't speak. To me, it doesn't matter if we go with book picked by LT member or just book picked by someone else. I'll probably have someone of you pick it anyway (was thinking of including it in my challenge, so...)

Regarding the mother/grandmothers, I think that you should definitely be able to go with a variation of the name if the name your mother or grandmother has is very regional. Like, my one grandmother was called Helga which I don't imagine is very common outside of the Nordic countries. And my other grandma has a name that definitely doesn't exist outside of Sweden. Or indeed, like someone suggested, switch to "parent/grandparent" to include fathers and grandfathers.

This will all work out just fine, I think.

>178 PawsforThought: The LT author is going to be horrible for me also. I read a lot of classics, almost nothing brand new (ER is pretty much the extent of my reading anything from within the past 5 yrs or so, generally), and yeah I don't even have a clue who LT authors are. I'm thinking I may bend the line on that one and go with a GR author because I know Wil Wheaton is one.

>179 .Monkey.: I'll have to investigate the matter more thoroughly, but yeah, it'll be tricky. I've never been on GR so have no clue who's on there, but I think it sounds like a good idea.

There are over 13,000 LT authors ...

And quite a few "big name" authors, too.

I'm sure there are tons, and I've looked through a list a couple of times before, but the LT authors whose names I even recognize aren't ones that I generally read (nor am interested in reading).

Like PM, I mostly read classics, and as much as I wish they where, Charles Dickens and William Shakespeare aren't LT authors.

Well, there is the Legacy Libraries project. Lots of dead authors there! and Charles Dickens has been proposed as a future project.

Yes, I was just going to say, why couldn't a legacy author count?

I had no idea there was such a thing as legacy authors. I thought LT authors where only the ones who are somewhat active users on LT.

For reference: http://www.librarything.com/legacylibraries

That feels like cheating to me (if someone else wants to go with a legacy author, that's up to them, but it wouldn't feel right to me). I mean, that list could eventually include every author ever. So it's sort of pointless to use as a means of exclusion.

What an eclectic and challenging list! Not sure if my TBR pile is up for the challenge but I'll give it a go. I had fully intended to try for a blackout, but we'll see how that turns out.

As the person who suggested Read a book selected by a fellow LT member, I made that suggestion with the hope of having people interact more, especially those who may not be as sociable (like me). In hindsight I probably should have made it more specific and said fellow Bingo DOG members so we could all have fun picking and choosing for each other. However, I'm really very flexible and if everyone prefers to have it read a book picked by someone else then I'm fine with that.

>189 LittleTaiko: I like the idea of getting to know our fellow BingoDOGgers

>189 LittleTaiko: I'm up for having Bingo players pick a book for me.

Of course this year I have read a few member giveaways, which would all work for LT authors. Maybe I'll win some next year.

I love pretty much all the suggestions. I came up with the "read a book whose author has the same name as your mother or grandmother" and I would certainly think that (a) we could stretch it to include more relatives and (b) translations would work.

Of the three that are similar I like:

- The wording of "Read a book translated from a language you do not read/speak".

- At first I thought I preferred the "Read A Book Someone Choses for you" but I also like the idea that we chose books for each other as well, so I go with whatever the majority feel on this one.

- "Read a book that reminds you of your childhood". I think this widens the choice without taking away from the challenge aspect.

As to the Read an LT author, I have no problem with this one. I think we have to be careful not get too nit-picky about these topics. The fun part is seeing how people interpret each square to fit their own particular reading, so if someone want to read a legacy author for that square I say that's creative interpreting and more power to them.

I just checked GR's author list and Stephen King, Margaret Atwood and Neil Gaiman are all there. So yeah, I might go with PM's idea.
Happy days!

I thought we were going to trust people to pick squares on their own?

I'm not thrilled by some of the choices, but I'll just interpret them creatively. For the mother/grandmother square, I say go with a translation of the name if you have to - or a nickname if they had one. A great grandmother is a grandmother. There's birth mother, adoptive mother, mother-in-law . . . get creative if you have to.

We have 4 months to plan for the challenge. Let's have fun helping each other come up with titles to fit each square.

There are 13,215 LT authors! The most popular is Diana Gabaldon.

>195 BookLizard: I might go with the name of my foster-grandma, as her name is fairly common (and international). That or mum's.

>196 LoisB: Not very many of them are household names, though. At least not in my part of the world.

>195 BookLizard: I'm not sure what you mean. Everyone did pick their own. We also decided we would sort out any doubles. We're obviously not going to repeat squares...

Someone had suggested something about using LT lists in the other planning threads, people could make lists for the different squares (those that aren't personal ones) and anyone can add titles they think appropriate? It might be a less messy way to go about it.

199> PolymathicMonkey, I wasn't talking about the doubles. We do need to decide on those, and everyone seems to be leaning towards the more general version. I was talking about the mother/grandmother and LibraryThing author, and any other squares that people might find difficult. We agreed to trust people to pick the squares, so we shouldn't be talking about changing them, but how to creatively interpret them.

>200 BookLizard: I'd say that's what we're doing, but we all see things differently, I suppose.
If people find that certain phrasings or words make that square too difficult for them (or even impossible), shouldn't we be able to discuss minor edits? DeltaQueen - who came up with the idea for the mothers/grandmothers - seems to have no problems with it.

I was prepared for people to ask questions about the ones I came up with (and make adjustments if it makes it easier for people) but no one's asked yet. If they do, I'll be more than happy.

Can someone clarify what a genre bending book might entail or give some examples?

>202 LittleTaiko: I'd like to see a few examples, too.

>177 .Monkey.: "read a book by an author who shares a name with someone you're descended from"

I'm good with this wording.

>178 PawsforThought: for me, the LT author as I don't read very many books by people who are still alive, much less authors active on LT

How do we find out who is an author on LT? I assume for this to be a square there must be an easy way to see a list or something? Thanks!

>205 LibraryCin: On the LT menu bar, go to Zeitgeist, and click on it. That will bring up a page of interesting stats. In the top right corner, is "Authors who LT". You can click on the link at the bottom of that list to see the complete list.

>203 PawsforThought: Can someone clarify what a genre bending book might entail or give some examples?

Good question!

>206 LoisB: Thank you! I'll go check it out.

>202 LittleTaiko: Regarding genre-bending.

That's a book that really straddles more than on genre. Jim Butcher's Harry Dresden books are a good example. Urban fantasy/private detective. London Falling is another: horror/police procedural. Ben Aaronovich, Diana Gabaldon and many more fit.

>209 majkia: Thank you for the explanation on genre-bending!

>209 majkia: - Thank you. That helps. That one will require some searching/thinking on my part.

would mystery/romance fit?

Do we have to fill the card or one line, four corners, picture frames, etc?

>212 cyderry: I'd say it's up to each player to decide when they have a bingo.

>212 cyderry: Yeah it's definitely up to you whatever you want to do with your card!

I sort of dropped out of following this discussion, but I must say that I'm very intrigued by the result. This looks like a really exciting challenge!

>212 cyderry: As was explained to me -- there are no prizes, and therefore no hard and fast rules. I'm going to approach it like retirement home bingo -- scattershot and hoping to coincidentally line up a row of some sort by the end of the year.

Just a word to 'my' square.

A book about language(s).
The nonfiction possibilities are fairly obvious, but what intrigues me are the fiction possibilities. These range widely with Tolkein's books playing with the various languages. (Think of the entry to Moria.) Pygmalian (My Fair Lady) is a drama where language is a major element. Many science fiction books deal with communication between humans and aliens or animals. I might try The Guild of Xenolinguists.

The tagmash 'fiction, language' http://www.librarything.com/tag/fiction,+language
and the related tagmashes have a lot of suggestions. I'm not convinced that they are all fiction, or that I would consider them all to have language as a main element, but there must be something in those lists for everyone.

>217 MarthaJeanne: What's your perception on using Nabokov for that? They're not exactly "about" language, but everything he did was playing with language. Does that count, or is it toeing the line a bit much?

>218 .Monkey.: I think that sounds intriguing. I'm not familiar enough with Nabokov to know what I'd to in that situation.

Pygmalion is a good suggestion, I'll keep that in mind for myself. I imagine there are quite a few other books where language barriers play an important part - that'd work really well too.

As for sci-fi with human/animal language interactions, Slave Ship was one I read last year.

edited to fix touchstone

Nabokov

I don't think I have read anything by him.

Besides, I'm not going to police people's bingo cards. If you think it deals with language, count it.

Just thought I'd add something.

I'm the one who came up with "Read a book inspired by another piece of fiction." The reason I chose that particular phrasing was so that people could easily choose whatever type of fiction they want. I have no idea what I'll read myself for that one, but I'll have no qualms whatsoever about reading something based on something other than a book. Poetry, movies, tv shows, whatever!

>221 MarthaJeanne: No I know, but I'd like to try and find something that properly fits, not fudging it in if I can avoid resorting to it!

>222 PawsforThought: When I saw your square, I immediately thought of Wide Sargasso Sea. Too bad I just read it this year.

222 & 224> I was thinking of Dorothy Must Die or Wicked.

224> Have you read The Eyre Affair?

Wicked is one of those books I've had listed on TIOLI after TIOLI but never read. Maybe this year I can get to it!

>225 BookLizard: No, I haven't. A BB for next year!

>224 LoisB: That'd be a perfect idea. Shame you've read it. I might read it myself.

>225 BookLizard: All great ideas.

>226 majkia: Do it!

Woohoo, I'm excited about these Bingo topics! Well, I'm not nuts about a couple of them, but I will try to find something that works anyway. I'd love to do a blackout Bingo if I can!

>222 PawsforThought: - I have a couple of books by Lynn Shephard that fit the bill for your topic - Murder at Mansfield Park and The Solitary House. The first is obviously based on Jane Austen's Mansfield Park and the other is loosely based on Bleak House by Charles Dickens. Not sure if either are any good, but I own them so it will be a good way to clear one off of my TBR list.

>230 LittleTaiko:: I loved The Solitary House and the rest of that series. Hope you enjoy it too.

>230 LittleTaiko: Sounds great! I have quite a few choices for myself, including Longbourn, which I bought for my mum on her birthday.

I'm responsible for the Read a book about autism square. As I look at the others, it doesn't seem to fit. My intent was to find a scientific/medical topic that would be of general interest. I'll try to come up with some suggestions. Right now, my best suggestion is Memoirs of an Imaginary Friend by Matthew Dicks. It's a novel that I rated *****.

>225 BookLizard: and >226 majkia: Wicked is a fantastic book! It also has important animals (a goat and also flying monkeys) and mythical creatures, so this one book could cover several squares.

>233 LoisB: There are a surprising amount of books with autistic characters. Look Me in the Eye is a recent one, and The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time is perhaps the most famous. Temple Grandin has a few books out and I'm sure we'll all be able to find something.

>233 LoisB: I'm rather addicted to The Gauguin Connection series by Estelle Ryan. The main character is autistic, and is a hoot as she gets, urm, adopted by a thief.

>233 LoisB:, 235 Too bad I just read The curious incident of the dog in the night-time. I thought it was really well done.

>233 LoisB: The London Eye Mystery by Siobhan Dowd was excellent. The main character has Asperger's syndrome, an autism spectrum disorder.

>235 RidgewayGirl: >236 majkia: >237 MarthaJeanne: >238 VivienneR: Thanks for the suggestions. It looks like the square may not be as difficult as I feared. I'm beginning to think that I could concentrate on the BingoDOG challenge next year and not get bored!

>233 LoisB: - Love Anthony by Lisa Genova was a wonderful book that features a young autistic boy. Highly recommend.

I just looked at the tagmash http://www.librarything.com/tag/autism%2C+fiction and realize that I read another great book about an autistic boy this year: The horse boy Never mind that it isn't fiction.

>233 LoisB: Regarding your square Lois, the 75ers has had an April Autism Awareness Month for the last few years, hosted by our own Terri (tymfos). Here is the link to the 2014 thread, the first few messages list quite a few books, both fiction and non-fiction.

Autism Awareness Month

>240 LittleTaiko: Yes! As is Still Alice by Lisa Genova - another of my ***** ratings.

>242 DeltaQueen50: I wasn't aware of that, thanks! I suspect a lot of us will be doing my square in April.

226> Group read of Wicked?

232> I read Longbourn this year and really enjoyed it.

233> Rules by Cynthia Lord is an award-winning children's book about a girl and her autistic brother.

>233 LoisB: Could fiction work for the autism one, too? I'm thinking along the lines of The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime?

ETA: I see others have already suggested this!

>235 RidgewayGirl: Yes, Temple Grandin for autism, too.

Perhaps we can set up a Bingo wiki in the 2015 group? (And by "we," I mean someone who actually knows how to do that. I can edit an established wiki but have no idea how to set up a new one!) Then we could all leave suggestions of books that would fit some of the trickier squares, like the autism one that's already generated several suggestions.

>247 christina_reads: I think we're going to need something. A wiki list of the books people are reading for each square, a topic for each square, ... something to help.

>245 LibraryCin: Yes, fiction, non-fiction, biography - anything goes!

Yeah, a wiki is a great idea. There's been talk of LT lists too - I don't really know what that entails, though.

The lists are really easy to set up. I can set one up, if you like, but the question is whether you would want a list for each square topic.

>251 sturlington: I think we should have a separate list for each square.

251> Can anyone edit a list?

OK, I think it will be easiest when we have a wiki page going. Then I can set up the lists and post a link to each list, so they don't get lost in the general list clutter. That's my main complaint about the Lists feature--it's very easy to lose one once you make one and they're a bit hard to find unless you know exactly what you're searching for.

After the lists are made, each person can add any suggestions they have and then check them off as they read.

ETA >253 BookLizard: I don't think anyone can edit the basic list parameters (title, description, etc.) but anyone can add books to the list.

>202 LittleTaiko: - I assume "genre bender" is the same as (or very similar to) slipstream/interstitial fiction?

Slipstream/interstitial fiction blurs the boundaries between sff and literary fiction. Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell is an excellent example, as is Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell by Susanna Clarke. Both are decidedly speculative fiction but were nominated for the literary Booker Prize.

Or am I totally wrong about what "genre bender" means?

>255 Her_Royal_Orangeness: I hope you are right. I actually have Cloud Atlas in my TBR pile.

>255 Her_Royal_Orangeness: I certainly think "genre bender" would include slipstream, but my impression was that it would encompass any book that fits in multiple genres (or puts a new twist on an old genre). So for example, Ben H. Winters' The Last Policeman would be a genre bender because it's a police procedural set in a sci-fi universe (just before an asteroid destroys Earth). Or am I reading this square way too generously?

Oh, I have Cloud Atlas too!

Oh. boy. I sure hope "genre-bending" is broader than sff+literary! I just don't think I could do it if that's what it is! (I almost commented that I'd rather gouge my eyes out, but that might be exaggerating just a bit! LOL! ;-) )

Someone else earlier said it was just a book that straddles two different genres.

Like LibraryCin says above I also thought that a gender bender is a book that straddles two different genres. Hope that is correct.

It's both. Every genre has its "rules." Books that bend those rules are genre benders. Everyone knows that Literature is wordy, serious, depressing realism, so a "good" book that has a fantasy or science fiction element to it is a genre bender. (I'm being facetious, so please don't jump all over me.) A romance without a happily-ever-after ending or a mystery where you never find out whodunnit would be genre benders (and annoying as all hell).

But the more obvious kind would be the books that don't fit neatly into one genre or another. It would have equal appeal to readers of different genres. Many books have a love interest as part of the storyline, but in a romance, it's the most important part of the story. So just because there's a little bit of romance in a mystery or fantasy, wouldn't make it a genre bender. A zombie love story would be a genre bender (Warm Bodies).

The early Sookie Stackhouse books were called the "Southern Vampire Mysteries." You could make a case for putting them in either the mystery or fantasy genre. Same for the Harry Dresden books.

Some genre benders have become so common that they've become subgenres, like paranormal romance. Can you imagine in the early years, trying to sell a vampire romance to a publisher? "No, the vampire is the love interest. He's a good vampire. He only kills bad people. When he says he'll love her forever, he really means it!" LOL.

I'm responsible for the genre-bender tile, and yes, what BookLizard and others said. :) I'm a rule breaker!

ETA: edited for clarity. I've only had one sip of tea and still not quite awake.

So, slipstream/interstitial fiction is like a subset of "genre bender" rather than a synonym?

Re autism - A book I've read and enjoyed that qualifies is The Uninvited by Liz Jensen (creepy dystopian novel). And I have two books on the 2014 TBR pile that are tagged autism - The Speed of Dark by Elizabeth Moon and Shine Shine Shine by Lydia Netzer. The one I plan to read for the Bingo Dog is Banishing Verona by Margot Livesey.

I was only going to participate in the Bingo Dog if I could do a black-out (fill all squares) without making any (or many) changes to my existing reading plan. I can, so I'm in! Yayness.

I was thinking about the idea of using LT lists to track our ideas and reading for the BingoDOG. Not all of the squares lend themselves to a list (a book someone chooses for you, an author with the same name as your mother/grandmother). So I think it would be good to create a BingoDOG 2015 list, where we can add our books as we read them. There is a comment feature that lets you note which square the book fits in. That way, we'll easily be able to see shared reads.

For those squares where it would be helpful to have a separate list for recommendations and so forth, we can create those separately. I'm thinking the autism, genre bending, language, etc. And then there are some where there are already some lists made that I can dig out. For instance, I know there's a list of animal stories and a list of books inspired by other books. Of course, we can add to any of these lists to improve their recommendations.

---

I love genre-bending books! In fact, it's probably my favorite "genre". I almost suggested that myself, but changed my mind at the last minute.

I loved The Last Policeman trilogy, which combines police procedurals with an apocalyptic story. Douglas Adams' Dirk Gently books are a combo of mystery and time travel sci-fi. Christopher Moore's books often combine horror elements with humor. Stephen King has a lot of them. 11/22/63 combines time travel with historical thriller, and The Dark Tower series mashes up sci-fi, fantasy, horror, and Western tropes. Jo Walton's Farthing trilogy mixes British mystery with alternate history. Charlie Huston wrote a book called Sleepless, which is apocalyptic sci-fi meets hard-boiled mystery.

On the literary side, there is Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell, Specimen Days by Michael Cunningham, Never Let Me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro, The Yiddish Policeman's Union by Michael Chabon, Chronic City by Jonathan Lethem, and the Oryx and Crake trilogy by Margaret Atwood.

There are a lot of possibilities too, if you look at combining Historical fiction with Fantasy, Mystery, Time travel, Science fiction, or Horror.

>263 Her_Royal_Orangeness: Hurrah!

263> So, slipstream/interstitial fiction is like a subset of "genre bender" rather than a synonym?

I think so. There's a good definition of interstitial art (including literature) on http://www.interstitialarts.org/about-iaf:

". . . some of the most vital, innovative, and challenging art being created today can be found in the margins between categories, genres, and disciplines. Because such works are hard to classify, they are often misunderstood in a culture that has become overly dependent on branding and selling art by category labels. Border-crossing works of literature, for example, which consciously borrow tropes and themes from both genre and mainstream fiction, are classified as one or the other – and then critiqued according to the terms of that classification rather than on the book’s own terms, often to the detriment of the work in question. "

Basically, a genre bender is a work that defies simple categorization as either/or, and slipstream/interstitial fiction is in the gray area between literature and genre.

This is an entirely new field for me. So would a book like Les lames du cardinal, which combines an historical figure like Cardinal Richelieu with mythical creatures such as dragons, count as genre bending?

I did some research and here are some existing LT lists that might help select books for the BingoDOG:

Natural disaster: http://www.librarything.com/list/436/all/Disaster-Books

Epistolary: http://www.librarything.com/list/721/all/Epistolary-Books

LGBT main character: http://www.librarything.com/list/254/all/Good-LGBT-fiction-for-LGBT-folk-and-fri...

Animals: http://www.librarything.com/list/37/all/Best-Books-About-Animals

Myths and fairy tales retold: http://www.librarything.com/list/337/all/Myth-Reuse-and-Retelling- and http://www.librarything.com/list/169/all/Favorite-Fairy-Tale-Retellings

Novels Inspired By Other Fiction: http://www.librarything.com/list/9722/all/Novels-Inspired-by-Other-Fiction

I would suggest creating the following lists to collect our recommendations:
Books about autism
Books about language (fiction and nonfiction) -- there is already one that seems to be all nonfiction
Books with/about scientists
Books with mythical creatures
Books with prophecy, signs, or portents
Genre-benders
Books published in 1915
BingoDOG 2015 -- to capture our reads as we complete them

The other squares seem a bit too general to make a good list. If this sounds good, I can go ahead and set up the lists to start collecting the suggestions.

ETA: Of course, anyone can make a list, so if I've skipped something that you think would make a good list, by all means go ahead and set it up!

1. Would it be too complicated to create separate lists for fiction and non-fiction for some of these, like language and autism? I rarely read non-fiction so I'd rather see lists of exclusively fiction.

2. Should there be a list for mythic fiction and fairy tales that are NOT related to other works? That's a whole nother thing, imo.

3. The animal list is weird in that it seems to include an abundance of children's books.

Perhaps, we should have a Wiki with our own lists within the Wiki.

>268 sturlington: That sounds great!

The only one I'm not sure about is books published in 1915, because I think it's pretty easy to find elsewhere. Here's one from Goodreads, for example, sorted by popularity.

Don't forget that a book "where an animal is of importance" doesn't mean the book has to be about an animal. It could be something like The Curious Incident of Dog in the Night Time , where the animal in question is dead. Or featuring a fantastical animal (like unicorns or dragons). It doesn't have to be Animal Farm or Watership Down (though those are great books and would be great suggestions), as long as the animal is of importance.

>271 _Zoe_: You can find a list of books from 1915 on Wikipedia, too. Minus the popularity rating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1915_in_literature#New_books

>272 PawsforThought: Do animals like dragons count?

>270 LoisB: The nice thing about using LT's Lists features is that it offers a collection view so that you can view the books in your library that are on the list. I think that would be very useful for those who want to (or need to) read primarily from books they already own.

>263 Her_Royal_Orangeness: So, slipstream/interstitial fiction is like a subset of "genre bender" rather than a synonym?

Yes.

>274 MarthaJeanne: I say it does! The is no rike stating it has to be a *real* animal.

Also the LT List feature lets you make your own sublist for books you have read or own or want.

the list feature is a good idea. PolymathicMonkey, can you set up a wiki for us? we can then point to any lists from there. If you aren't familiar with the LT wiki features, I can set it up for us.

>269 Her_Royal_Orangeness: 1. Would it be too complicated to create separate lists for fiction and non-fiction for some of these, like language and autism? I rarely read non-fiction so I'd rather see lists of exclusively fiction.

No, it literally takes seconds to set up a list, so we could definitely separate out fiction and nonfiction. I think that would be good for the scientists square too. I am trying to avoid too much duplication; here is a list of nonfiction about language, for example: http://www.librarything.com/list/51/all/Great-Books-About-Language

2. Should there be a list for mythic fiction and fairy tales that are NOT related to other works? That's a whole nother thing, imo.

Yes, how about a list of just mythic fiction? http://www.librarything.com/list/9580/all/Mythic-Fiction

3. The animal list is weird in that it seems to include an abundance of children's books.

Agreed. We could make a list of animals of importance limited to adult fiction; we could also make a separate nonfiction list for this category.

>270 LoisB: Yes, when we get the wiki page, I can post all these list links there for easier reference.

>271 _Zoe_: Agreed, it doesn't seem worth it to just set up a list for that when the info is easily obtainable. Same for LT authors.

Just wanted to say that I fully support the idea of a wiki or a list...any place where we can make suggestions for books to fit the various squares. But I think we should post that info over in the 2015 group, since that's the year we'll actually be reading all these Bingo books! :)

Also, lists can be created based on a tag. Sometimes this is helpful for bringing in books you may not have thought of, sometimes it brings in a lot of junk. Would you prefer we just start from scratch or try basing these new lists on a tag, if applicable?

>279 majkia: I can certainly make a wiki, but I'm not sure what the ...structure? of it is that folks are looking for. I mean is it just going to be a list of the lists, or is there some sort of sorting that's meant to happen, or...?

If anyone has an idea of what exactly they want from it, go ahead and make it. Or else just let me (or the group in general, for anyone who doesn't mind working with them) know how you want it to be and I or anyone else who sees it & has time first can make it. Just post here before you go off to work on it so there doesn't wind up being multiples. ;)

>282 sturlington: I think using tags would be likely to wind up in a list full of clutter. I think sticking to already-made lists and populating them individually is a better idea.

>283 .Monkey.: I tend to agree about the tags. And it's easy enough to do a search on a tag if you're stuck for ideas.

Right, it seems better for people to look themselves at tags that may be applicable and add in titles they find there that would be suitable.

I'm assuming that we can move books from square to square? For instance, we read a book that can apply to multiple squares, place it in one and then move it later if we read another book that fits where we put it first? If that makes sense...

Definitely.

>286 sturlington: I think that's fine.

I can certainly make a wiki, but I'm not sure what the ...structure? of it is that folks are looking for. I mean is it just going to be a list of the lists, or is there some sort of sorting that's meant to happen, or...?

I see the wiki as having different sections for each bingo category, and then people can enter the books they have read and/or plan to read in each section. Others could then look over the list if they're looking for ideas. We could also mark each book "completed" as we do so, and maybe include our rating so people have a better idea of whether it's a book they should consider for that category as well.

>289 Her_Royal_Orangeness: That makes sense, and distinguishes the wiki (specific planning and record-keeping) from the lists (general ideas). So on the list I might put three relevant books that I've enjoyed in the past, but on the wiki I would list only the one book that I plan to read for the BingoDOG, and mark it as completed when done?

I suppose, it seems like it'd get awful long, though, with 24 different squares...

>291 .Monkey.: Well, it could be spread out over a few pages.

>290 _Zoe_: - Exactly.

>291 .Monkey.: - The wikis do tend to get a bit long. Look at this year's alphacat wiki, for example.

We are due for a new thread on this subject so perhaps we should move the discussion over to the 2015 Challenge when the thread is renewed.

>293 Her_Royal_Orangeness: No thank you. lol.

>294 DeltaQueen50: Splendid idea.

Do we have a definitive list of the squares yet?
Are there explanations of what qualifies?

for instance I don't understand "Read a book where prophecy, signs, or portents are part of the plot" what does that mean?

#297: see: http://www.librarything.com/tag/fiction,+prophecy

or do a tag mash of portents and fiction, or non-fiction.

ETA: anything where fate or an oracle or some arcane book predicts something or is part of a quest for it.

>297 cyderry: Well there was a clear consensus on Read a book translated from a language you don't speak/read, and Read a book that reminds you of your childhood. As for Read a book someone else chooses for you / Read a book picked for you by a fellow LT member, there was less certainty, with some opting for the former as it could include LTers and others opting for the latter as a group thing. Should we put up an official vote on that one, or...?

Well, we need to decide somehow or we won't know what to put in the square on the card.

Should we continue this discussion in the 2015 group and figure out the final square wording there? That way, latecomers will be able to more easily find it.

>301 sturlington: I hesitate to move this discussion to a new group at this time. We have a lot of meaningful discussion that latecomers would not be aware of. I think it would be helpful to at least have the wording down before we move the discussion. Could we put forward suggested wording, vote quickly then move to the new group?

>302 LoisB: I agree, we should keep the discussion all together. A new thread can be started there for future things that come up about it, but the planning part should all be in one place.

So, okay:Yes for allowing anyone; no for only LT members can pick.

297 > For portents/prophecies/etc. the Harry Potter books would work, as they're all about a prophecy.

302 > I agree. I think we should have the wording of the squares down before moving.

I chose yes to picking anyone, even though I'll definitely ask someone here on LT to pick for me. Those of us who do want an LT member to pick can quite easily talk amongst ourselves and sort that out (create a thread for it, or something) and let the people who'd rather have someone from another part of their life to pick do that.

>297 cyderry: -
for instance I don't understand "Read a book where prophecy, signs, or portents are part of the plot" what does that mean?

A vast number of epic fantasy novels/series have a prophecy at the heart of the story - someone destined to slay the dragon/overcome evil/recover the lost magical thing and thus save their kingdom/village/family from eternal ruin.

If that's not your thing, maybe an historical novel with a fortune teller could qualify. Something like The Oracle Glass, The Mesmerist, or The Lace Reader.

I broadly rethink the category as: characters get Important Information from Out There, which in some way directs and/or influences the plot.

That one is going to be really difficult for me, I fear. I will just have to look through my scifi/fantasy books and see if any seem likely to involve it. The thing is, I hate to read descriptions of books, I want to know only the very vaguest bit I can to determine whether I may like it, and no more! And I don't read that much of it per year so it's not like I can read a stack and figure Well one should wind up with it! or whatever. But we'll see.

I think I might read a Greek play or something for that one. Aischylos' Agamemnon features a very important prophesy by Cassandra and would work well.

>306 Her_Royal_Orangeness: - Thank you for mentioning The Lace Reader - I've had that book for several years now and finally have the push I need to read it. Happy to know it will fit the category!

I'm thinking also about a play, maybe Macbeth ....

>310 electrice: Good idea. Macbeth would work, as well, of course. The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and the His Dark Materials books, too. And stuff with Nostradamus and Oedipus (yay for more choices for me!) The Sword in the Stone and other arthurian tales would be good.

Non-fiction books about people who were believed to be oracles, prophets, etc. should work too, right?

Checking the tag for "prophesy" Un Lun Dun, Kafka on the Shore and Watership Down all show up. Haven't read the first two, so can't comment but there's definitely Fiver the prophet in WD.

You can always read Good Omens. The words omen and prophecies are right in the title. Great book, too. I might reread it...

Historical novels in ancient times will often have omens in them as well - the Romans especially were obsesses with omens and portents. I know for a fact that omens, portents and prophecies play a big part in Ben Kane's The Forgotten Legion Chronicles, which is a trilogy. I read the first book and I can highly recommend it.

>217 MarthaJeanne: Thank you for posting the tagmash search line! I had been frustrated in my attempts to figure out how to search by tags; but now I have almost all of my possibilities lined up for the LT bingo card! :-)

I have the Lace Reader but I already slated it for "Read a book that's completely outside your comfort zone" since it's tagged for mental illness, paranormal - something I don't normally like. I've had this book since 2009 and thought I would finally get it done with BINGO'S help.

I've spent the day trying to find books on my shelves for BINGO. I'm more than halfway there but know that I won't find autism, linguists, LGBTQ, or scientists on my shelves.

Would World War I be a major historical event? or is that too broad?

How do I decide what the opposite gender is for "Read a book with a protagonist of the opposite gender"?

It's both. Every genre has its "rules." Books that bend those rules are genre benders. Everyone knows that Literature is wordy, serious, depressing realism, so a "good" book that has a fantasy or science fiction element to it is a genre bender. (I'm being facetious, so please don't jump all over me.) A romance without a happily-ever-after ending or a mystery where you never find out whodunnit would be genre benders (and annoying as all hell).

Ohhhh, ok. This makes sense. Now, is there an easy way to tell what might be a gender-bender ahead of time?

(Pardon me if this has already been answered somewhere past >261 BookLizard:. I'm just getting caught up and replying before I've read all the replies!!!)

ETA: And it would help if I finished reading even the posts I'm replying to!!!! Sigh...

I got behind too. Have the actual BINGO categories been decided yet?

>311 PawsforThought: Non-fiction books about people who were believed to be oracles, prophets, etc. should work too, right?

Ooooo, maybe something about Rasputin?

>315 cyderry: I would think WWI would definitely be a major historical event!

So, just doing a cursory tagmash search, I was able to find at least one book for every square except the ones where Someone Else will choose, and the one Way Out of My Comfort Zone. The former will be open until the process of having others chime in is finalized; and as for the latter, I suspect that I will go borrow a politically motivated screed from the library! I'm sure however, that my actual titles will vary widely from my list so far :-)

316> I hope the lists will help folks get some ideas. I think it's a bit easier to tell with the books that cross genres than with the interstitial fiction.

317> Mostly. See post 163.

268> The disaster list isn't just natural disasters. A good place to look for ideas, but it doesn't exactly fit the bill. A lot of them also seem to be survival stories. I wouldn't call it a natural disaster if someone climbs Mount Everett and gets stuck in a blizzard. I think of natural disasters as affecting a large number of people where they live - hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc. I'd include wildfires but not nightclub/factory fires.

>321 BookLizard: Thanks. Looks like there has been some fine-tuning since then too.

Just to restate for those unsure of the squares:

Read a book translated from a language you don't speak/read
Read a book that reminds you of your childhood
Read a book about a subject/topic of which you're (mostly) unfamiliar
Read a book about autism
Read a book about language(s)
Read a book with scientists
Read a book with a natural disaster
Read a book centered around a major historical event
Read a book with correspondence, epistolary, or letters
Read a book with a LGBTQ main character
Read a book with a protagonist of the opposite gender
Read a book set in a country other than your own
Read a book where an animal is of importance
Read a book that is based on a fairy tale or myth
Read a book with a mythical creature
Read a book where prophecy, signs, or portents are part of the plot
Read a book that's a genre bender
Read a book inspired by another piece of fiction
Read a book that's completely outside your comfort zone
Read a book published in 1915
Read a book whose author has the same first name as your mother/grandmother(/other lineage)
Read a book you've owned for more than 1 year
Read a book by an LT Author

Plus the one someone else chooses, please vote in >303 .Monkey.: if you haven't yet to settle which option for that one!

>324 .Monkey.: Thanks PM ! I'm happy to see that almost everyone is enjoying the planning for this one, I'm going to do the same thing :)

I don't know whether to be impressed or a little worried that so many people have lists ready.
I won't be doing a list for myself but I like seeing what everyone is talking about reading, great way to get ideas.

>322 BookLizard: I'd say blizzards in general would count for natural disasters, providing it wasn't just a small one (a bit extra wind and snow) but one big enough to cause damage. We've had blizzards more or less mow down entire forests and leaving people - communities - without food or electricity for weeks. I wouldn't hesitate to read about a similar incident.
But the scenario you mentioned is toeing the line a bit more.

I don't know whether to be impressed or a little worried that so many people have lists ready.

Lmao I have much the same thoughts. I do have two books on-line for 1915, the two my library has from the 1001 list published that year. I have a number of translated books (which are also obviously set in countries not my own), won't settle on that until later; same for the unfamiliar topic, I've got a handful picked up from the library sale the past 2 yrs about things I'm interested but haven't looked into, will decide as the year goes on which to use for it. Outside my comfort zone will likely be one of the classics that I wouldn't otherwise read except it's a classic so I will. Maybe Jane Austen, but I might only think she's outside it, once I actually read her I might think otherwise. If she doesn't fit, I may choose from the library. I thought I had some others along those lines but a cursory glance isn't revealing any (and I already read Dr Zhivago, which sat for a couple years for that reason), but maybe I've just tucked them away slightly (lack of space and all that). Most of my books will fit for owned over a year. And that's about it as far as my "planning" has gone. The others I really have no clue about. :P

Nice to know I'm not alone.
I'm actually really relaxed about the whole thing. I'm not going to fret about finding books in various categories. I'll have a look at the lists and see if anything fits with what I'd been planning on reading (and I have fairly open plans for next year so shouldn't be too hard). The squares that will pose more of a challenge to me (autism, LT author, letters, natural disaster) - I might make a mini list to have something to work with.

I thought finding a book for the published in 1915 square was going to be hard, but I've already found two that look promising. A fiction book, The Rainbow by D.H. Lawrence, and a non-fiction book, Travels in Alaska by John Muir.

I'm sure that at least one of the Gutenberg books I have downloaded was first published in 1915. The problem is going to be figuring out which one(s).

>322 BookLizard: More personal disasters than natural disasters, huh?

I went ahead and created the lists we discussed for recommending books. If you look on the Lists page, you should see them under Recent Lists. You can favorite those lists you want to find later.

BingoDOG 2015 Completed Reads Tracking: http://www.librarything.com/list/9870/all/BingoDOG-2015-Challenge

Autism: fiction -- http://www.librarything.com/list/9858/all/Books-About-Autism-Fiction-
Autism: nonfiction -- http://www.librarything.com/list/9859/all/Books-About-Autism-Nonfiction

Language -- fiction: http://www.librarything.com/list/9860/all/Books-About-Language-Fiction
Language -- nonfiction: http://www.librarything.com/list/51/all/Great-Books-About-Language (previous list)

Scientists - fiction: http://www.librarything.com/list/9861/all/Books-With-or-About-Scientists-Fiction
Scientists - nonfiction: http://www.librarything.com/list/9862/all/Books-About-Scientists-Nonfiction

Mythical creature http://www.librarything.com/list/9863/all/Books-With-Mythical-Creatures

Prophecy, signs, and portents http://www.librarything.com/list/9864/all/Books-Where-Prophecy-Signs-or-Portents...

Genre bender http://www.librarything.com/list/9865/all/Genre-Benders

Animal is of importance: adult fiction -- http://www.librarything.com/list/9866/all/Animals-in-Adult-Fiction
Animal is of importance: nonfiction -- http://www.librarything.com/list/9867/all/Animals-in-Adult-Nonfiction

Natural disasters: fiction -- http://www.librarything.com/list/9868/all/Books-With-Natural-Disasters-Fiction
Natural disasters: nonfiction -- http://www.librarything.com/list/9869/all/Books-With-Natural-Disasters-Nonfictio...

These lists were already existing:
Epistolary: http://www.librarything.com/list/721/all/Epistolary-Books

LGBT main character: http://www.librarything.com/list/254/all/Good-LGBT-fiction-for-LGBT-folk-and-fri...

Animal stories (lots of children's books mixed in): http://www.librarything.com/list/37/all/Best-Books-About-Animals

Myth: Reuse and Retelling: http://www.librarything.com/list/337/all/Myth-Reuse-and-Retelling-
Fairy Tale Retellings: http://www.librarything.com/list/169/all/Favorite-Fairy-Tale-Retellings
Mythic Fiction: http://www.librarything.com/list/9580/all/Mythic-Fiction

Novels Inspired By Other Fiction: http://www.librarything.com/list/9722/all/Novels-Inspired-by-Other-Fiction

wow, great work

By the way, if I missed something, feel free to create the list yourself, or if you don't feel comfortable, let me know and I will set it up.

I suppose I'll get working on a wiki, then.

Great! Thanks for setting the new lists up, and locating the older ones. I'm going to look through them more thoroughly later and see if I can add a few things.

Okay, wiki is here, it's been a while since I made one from scratch, and I might not be looking at it quite the same as what people were thinking, so if I missed something, or you have some input, feel free to fix/discuss.

Now we just need our bingo cards. Oh, and for it to be 2015. :-)

>332 sturlington: Thanks for doing all that work!

>338 sturlington: I haven't started on mine yet. It'll take a while.

I was anxious and made mine like a week ago XD but I may wind up changing things or deciding on an entirely different style, hahaha.

>337 .Monkey.: The Wiki looks great. Thanks for pulling that together!

I am confused about one thing. You have a link to the Bingo Ideas Tracking List (http://www.librarything.com/list/9870/all/BingoDOG-2015-Challenge) which I think is for planning purposes, but the description says it's to track completed reads.

>340 PawsforThought: No rush, certainly. I was just chuckling that I feel all ready to go and there's still 4 more months until 2015 starts.

>342 LoisB: My idea was we could use it to check off reads as they are completed, but you can certainly use it for planning purposes as well. I put a few books on there that I might read, but I haven't checked them off yet, since I haven't actually read them. But I can change that wording so it's more general.

>342 LoisB: The comments in the thread talked about putting only those actually read on the wiki, and putting the couple choices that were being decided between up on the list, so that's what I assumed the list was meant to be.

>315 cyderry: I was the one who suggested "Read a book with a protagonist of the opposite gender." In other words, if you're a woman, read a book with a male protagonist. If you're a man, read a book with a female protagonist.

>344 sturlington: I agree with you - my only concern was the use of "completed" in the list description rather then "planned".

>345 .Monkey.: Again, I agree.

So, the list is for possible reads, the wiki is for completed reads.

>347 LoisB: Yes, I changed the wording on the list.

This is all coming together really well. I'm so proud of us!

>343 sturlington: I'm not feeling rushed. Just wanted people to know not to expect my version of the bingo card yet just because so much else is finished already. Promise I won't leave you all hanging until December 31st, but it'l be a while yet. I have a fairly new computer and haven't installed an editing software on it yet. I'm looking into what options I have.

>349 PawsforThought: My personal preference is for GIMP.

You know, it was fantastic to open up LT and find this enormous conversation going one! I can't wait to get started, but will do my best to forget about it until that week between Christmas and the New Year when I put my challenge together.

I love how diverse and interesting all the squares are.

>350 .Monkey.: I've never tried it. I'm used to Photoshop but on my old computer I had a cracked version (as if I could afford to pay for Photoshop, ha!). I can't crack it on my own and my brother who'd help me has moved across the country.
I might try Gimp though; it's free, after all.

I have an old cracked PS as well, and it is nicer for some stuff, but in general GIMP will get you where you need to go. I started using it because I run Linux and PS doesn't play well with it, even using WINE it's not quite right (maybe that's changed in more recent years, but 4? yrs ago it still held true), so I started using GIMP. Since then I've pretty much replaced PS with it. :)

Thank you >332 sturlington: for providing the links to all those lists. It's great having all this information at my fingertips.

I am trying to incorporate the Bingo Dog into my already planned Categories and I am pretty sure I will have all the squares covered. The hardest one for me was to find something I have that would fit the "completely outside my comfort zone" square. A year or so ago a friend gave me a book about the sex trade and I have been constantly shunting that one aside. This will give me the opportunity to read it and get it back to her.

Also thanks to >337 .Monkey.: the Wiki looks great!

So, on the wiki, does "Lists for Finding Titles" mean "I plan to read this book, so if you're looking for ideas, maybe you would also like to read this book"? And is "Bingo Books" only to be used when we actually have completed a book? Couldn't we add the books and then go back and add "Read"?

The problem is I see with using the List feature for our potential reads is if you change your mind and delete a book from your personal list, it still hangs out on the main list. (At least, I think I've seen that happen when I've used the Lists before).

>353 .Monkey.: I'll definitely check it out. If I don't like it, I can just delete it. It's very much a matter of familiarity. I'm not actually very good at computer things - image editing included - but I've done enough small stuff with PS that I feel comfortable using it so it'd be nice to be able to continue with that. But if Gimp is easy for me to navigate (which isn't the same as it being easy to navigate for other people!) I'd be very pleased.

>354 DeltaQueen50: I'll be incorporating the Bingo into my regular challenge, too. I had some of the categories decided before the bingo squares were settled but they're all open enough that I'll easily be able to fit the bingo reads into my categories. And some of them even matched up! I have a category for LGBT books and one for children's books so I'll have no problem at all there.
I'm ruminating a little over the "out of your comfort zone" as I can't think of one at the moment, but I'm sure there are a few titles on my TBR list that are out of my comfort zone.

>355 Her_Royal_Orangeness: The lists are for anything suitable to the squares. They're to help people find titles that may interest them. Anything you know of that meets the criteria of a square you should add to the list, to help other people who aren't sure what to read with suggestions.

You can add books to the wiki at any time, but please add only one title per square, that you anticipate reading. Since it would, imho, get unwieldy if everyone just added every potential to it, I think it's better to keep that method to lists and add only the one title you are counting for the square to the wiki.

ETA
>356 PawsforThought: You can always ask me or look up youtube tutorials if you get stuck. :) I don't think it has any steeper learning curve than PS, if anything knowing that should make it pretty easy. It's not all identical, but for most things, if you can do it with PS it's likely you can do it with GIMP in a not-so-different manner.

I'm still confused about the wiki. Sorry. :)

"Lists for finding titles" would be the same things we're adding to the lists that sturlington created or linked to? In other words, "I have read this book and know it qualifies for the challenge and would recommend it to others."

And "Bingo Books" is for potential reads even though the description says "Add the title you've read"?

>358 Her_Royal_Orangeness: The lists are the things sturlington linked above. You don't have to have read books to know they fit. Obviously it helps, but there's tons of books we know enough about, either through their popularity or just from titles/blurbs, without having read them, to know that they qualify as being "about a natural disaster" or whatever. It's just lists of anything that fits the criteria of the squares.

The titles added to the wiki are for what is actually read, not a list of suggestions (though obviously it can be taken as such, if people note a favorable impression of the book). If you really want to add things before you read them, because you've already decided, yes, it's fine. But the wiki is meant for what is read for the squares.

The titles added to the wiki are for what is actually read, not a list of suggestions.

So what is "Lists for finding titles" on the wiki if it's not suggestions of books we think qualify?

If you really want to add things before you read them, because you've already decided, yes, it's fine.

If we're allowed to add potential books to the wiki, could the description for that section be changed from "Add the title you've read" to something like, "Add the books you plan to read. When you have read them, mark them "completed" and indicate your rating."

I just do not understand what goes where on the wiki. I'm sorry to be so befuddled about it!

>360 Her_Royal_Orangeness: They're links to the lists sturlington made and those that already existed.

>360 Her_Royal_Orangeness: You can click on the links to the different lists and use those to look for planned reads, to add books you're thinking of reading but haven't decided on yet, or to recommend books you know of to others that fit the subject of the list. Not every Bingo square has a corresponding list, but they are meant to be helpful in trying to locate a gender bender, for example, or a book with portents--data which may not be so easy to figure out otherwise.

Beneath the list of lists, there are wiki headings for each of the potential Bingo squares where you can add the book you plan to read or have read for each square as we go along.

Aha! They're LINKS! Doh! I thought it was a section where we were supposed to add info. (So embarrassed.)

I've been looking at possible books for the Bingo and I've got a couple of questions regarding squares and possible interpretations. I don't want to cheat too much/twist them too far from their original meaning.

First, the Read a book that is based on a fairy tale or myth square. Does a book like the Da Vinci Code (based on myths/fairy tales surrounding the bible) count? Does a tale like Robin Hood count as a myth?

Secondly, the Read a book about language(s) square. I'm assuming that something like cryptography counts, and I believe Tolkien has been mentioned too. But would a book about reading count? I'm talking about something like The Uncommon Reader by Alan Bennett.

Third, how broad is the mythical creature in Read a book with a mythical creature? Are we talking all creatures that don't really exist? Like dragons, fairies, phoenix, etc.? Would Tolkien's hobbits and elfs count? Would an alien?

Book about language(s):

Cryptography? certainly

The Uncommon Reader No idea until I've read it. Reading by itself doesn't really do it for me, but I can't imagine that you can really get involved with reading without getting involved with language, so I'd say it's a probable.

BTW, I have to read this and my library even has it, so I have reserved it to read as soon as the current reader returns it. It sounds delightful.

>364 Samantha_kathy: Personal opinions? 1) While I don't believe in the bible as more than "mythology," I still wouldn't call something that is derived from it to be "based on a fairy tale or myth." Robin Hood is actually more a legend; myths are fictitious, stories that people came up with to explain things. Legends are based on things that happened, and are supposedly true, but cannot be proved (or at least no more than some simple basics).

2) I wouldn't consider something about reading the same thing as something about language. Cryptography is certainly about language.

3) Mythical creatures do not exist. Tolkien's creatures are indeed quite mythical. I wouldn't call aliens mythical. There's every possibility that they exist. Aliens are usually science-fiction, not fantasy (though there can be fantasy involved, of course).

These are my personal thoughts, no one is going to police your card, yada yada. ;)

What she said. ^^^

>366 .Monkey.: & >367 PawsforThought:: I'm thinking the same ...

While I don't believe in the bible as more than "mythology," I still wouldn't call something that is derived from it to be "based on a fairy tale or myth.

I'm thinking more about the mythology surrounding the bible than the actual bible stories. Things like the bloodline of Christ, or complots surrounding the Dead Sea scrolls.

>369 Samantha_kathy: Things like the bloodline of Christ, or complots surrounding the Dead Sea scrolls.
I'd call those conspiracy theories, but maybe that's just me.

>369 Samantha_kathy: I think some of the things you are asking about might be a better fit with the "Read a book where prophecy, signs, or portents are part of the plot".

But my personal opinion is that books that involve such imaginary characters such as Robin Hood, Zorro, Tarzan, King Arthur could be considered as based on a myth.

>370 PawsforThought: I agree, I don't consider that junk mythology but tinfoil hat time. Da Vinci Code falls into that, from what I know of it.

ETA
>371 DeltaQueen50: Again, I maintain that there is a very distinct difference between folklore/legends, and mythology.

>372 .Monkey.: Well, maybe we should let the creator of that square weigh in on what counts as a myth. I suppose stories like Robin Hood and King Arthur are more correctly defined as folklore than mythology, but why not include them (assuming it's OK with the square creator)? I think part of the fun is getting creative to justify fitting our books into the various squares.

Most sources I've seen seem to make the distinction that myth = involving gods/deities, legends = involves heroes/more regular people

>373 christina_reads: I personally wouldn't have a problem with reading Robin Hood or some Arthurian things for that square but the original question was regarding not bending the rules too much. Which is a personal call of judgement.

>375 PawsforThought: True, but it's not like there are definitive "rules" for many of these squares. Various people have shared their opinions on what would count for that square, but I don't think any one opinion is determinative, unless it's the person who actually came up with the square.

>364 Samantha_kathy: I'm the one who came up with the Mythical Creatures square. I was thinking of any creature that is not real but that we are familiar with from mythology and folklore. Aliens would not fit, but Tolkien's elves, dwarves, trolls, orcs and dragons certainly would. Also angels, demons, vampires, werewolves, zombies, gods, and fairies all fit the criteria.

Here's a really good list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_by_type

>373 christina_reads: I already stated that no one is policing cards. Anyone can do whatever they want. Opinions were asked for, that is mine.

>374 PawsforThought: Not necessarily just gods, myths involve things like creation of the world (and the various things in it), why certain things are the way they are, etc. But yes, it's 100% fabricated, generally to explain things that people didn't understand. Folklore/legends come from reality, but are presumably grossly exaggerated and are not verifiable.

I'm just asking opinions, just to get some different viewpoints on the squares, as well as those of the creator if they weigh in. This isn't about policing, simply forming my own opinion with the help of others who're also planning on doing the bingo.

One last question, about Read a book that's a genre bender. The creator said somewhere in this thread (I'm sorry, I can't find it at the moment) that a book that combines two different genres is a genre bender, but also said there are subgenres nowadays of popular genrebenders. A parnormal romance is two genres but also a subgenre nowadays. Do subgenres like that still count as genre bending?

>376 christina_reads: Bad choice of words, maybe, but the original question included the phrase I don't want to cheat too much, which implies rules.

>378 .Monkey.: Yeah, I was simplifying things.

>379 Samantha_kathy: Yes. And I'll fight anyone who says they don't.

>379 Samantha_kathy: Samantha: I'm the genre-bender creator, and I have no problem with anyone using the subgenres that have been spawned by genre-bending.

>328 PawsforThought: I'm not going to be planning too far in advance, either. I might take a look for some of the ones that I know will be more difficult for me, so I have some ideas ahead of time, but there are some that I will easily be able to read for, so I won't need to plan for it, as I'm sure I'll cover it without the planning!

I will wait till I have more time on the weekend to take a look at the lists and the wiki.

>358 Her_Royal_Orangeness: Me, I don't add anything to the wikis until after I've read them.

Wow! Lots of stuff going on here. I haven't checked the lists yet ( probably later tonight), but I did start looking through my TBR pile to see what I might have to fit some of the squares. Some squares I'll just wait to look at the lists because, despite very good explanations, I just don't think I understand them enough to pick a book. Maybe the lists will help me out. Then I need to figure out how to fit all this into my challenge. I, for one, am glad I've still got 4 months to figure this out.

Re: Read a book published in 1915

Two famous novels published in 1915 are Song of the Lark by Willa Cather and Of Human Bondage by W. Somerset Maughm.

I have work all day tomorrow and won't be anywhere near a computer but if I have some calm moments on Saturday I'll put a few things in the lists.

>364 Samantha_kathy: -
First, the Read a book that is based on a fairy tale or myth square. Does a book like the Da Vinci Code (based on myths/fairy tales surrounding the bible) count?

One of the books in the Canongate Myth Series - The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ - is designated as "Christian mythology" and another - Lion's Honey - is about Samson. So, that is one source that says "yes" to your question.

326> Yes, I'd agree that a disastrous blizzard would be a natural disaster. Brings to mind the Blizzard of '78 here in New England that killed almost 100 people.

331> Yep!

372> I'd say King Arthur would count as mythology because of the whole Merlin/Lady of the Lake thing.

377> I know it's your square, but I have to disagree a little bit. I think more people believe in angels than aliens.

I get what people say about aliens being more science fiction than mythological, but some zombie and vampire stories are science fiction (a virus causes it) while Anne McCaffery insists her Dragonriders of Pern series is science fiction, not fantasy, because it takes place on another planet or something. The list of legendary creatures says it excluded those from modern fantasy fiction and role-playing games - that's how I'm planning to interpret the square. I read urban fantasy all the time, but I wouldn't consider them "mythological." For me, mythological is like "Once upon a time . . . "

I guess my point is that a lot of things are in the eye of the beholder. One person's religion is another person's myth. And I don't think anyone is going to police anyone else's choices, but if you're so unsure of something that you have to ask . . . maybe you should just pick a different book.

379> I'm the one who mentioned the paranormal romance, and yes, I'd say a subgenre like that would count as a genre bender. Marketers like labeling things and putting them in boxes - thus, the various subgenres.

This might have already been covered but I can't find any mention of it: Will there be a separate thread for Bingo participants? Is there any sign-up necessary?

>391 VivienneR: There will be a thread for the bingo. We'll start posting in the 2015 group soon and the finished bingo squares will be posted there too. You don't need to sign up anywhere.

>392 PawsforThought: Thanks. I got behind with reading threads and with almost 400 posts, it was impossible to hone in on details.

Roll on 2015!

>390 BookLizard: People believing in something doesn't make it real, nor does people not believing in something make it not real. Ask any scientist whether they think we're alone in the universe. How many "yes" answers do you think you'd get? The odds of us being the only ones are astronomically low. It's almost certainty that other lifeforms exist out there, somewhere. It's not mythical. Also, "once upon a time" is fairy tales, not mythology. And, it's not the book that is meant to be mythological, it's just supposed to have a creature that is. Urban fantasy can have trolls and fae and goblins etc, just because it's "urban" doesn't mean it doesn't have mythological creatures in it.

>390 BookLizard: The key question for me is whether it's something that we know of from mythology and folklore. For me, aliens wouldn't make the cut, but vampires would, in any incarnation. I know some people don't consider angels to be mythological, but that's probably what I'm going to read. However, YMMV and I'm not going to police anyone's choices, since this is solely for fun. I'm interested to see what people pick. I think it's a lot of fun to read about traditional mythological beings transplanted into modern-day settings, such as in American Gods or Coyote Blue.

There is some medical basis for both vampires and zombies so they are, in fact, "real." But over time they have certainly become mythic creatures.

Also, just a bitty thing about wording that might want to be considered before creating the bingo card (if that hasn't already been done). The category: "Read a book with correspondence, epistolary, or letters." A book can't be WITH epistolary...it IS epistolary. Proper wording would be something like, "Read a book with correspondence or letters; an epistolary novel." (I'll accept my Grammar Snob Award now, please and thank you. :) )

It's a bingo card, there's marginal room in the squares, it's not a place for being proper about grammar.

>396 Her_Royal_Orangeness:

I have my tentative list all ready for all the squares except for the one where somebody picks a book for me. Yes, I'm one of those crazy planning types. Granted, I could change my mind between now and the beginning of the year, but I'm pretty happy with my selections since most of them are coming from my TBR list with a couple of wishlist items thrown in for fun.

>396 Her_Royal_Orangeness: You're among friends here. ;)

And just a side note. Is the "epistolary" bit even necessary? I know the word "epistolary" refers to more than just letters but the erst of the sentence makes me assume that the letter-writing is the part of epistolary that was meant (and that alone). If so, it could be cut out ("Read a book with correspondence or letters"), if that's okay with the square creator. Fewer words will make the square easier to read, too.

394> Of course belief doesn't make something real or not real. If you asked those same scientists, they would say they believe life exists on other planets - not that it does because they don't have proof. And how many would say that those aliens have come to earth? Built the pyramids?

The "Once upon a time" was a bad choice of words, but it was meant to convey my own plans of the mythological creatures question - not how I think other people should interpret it. I agree that "Once upon a time" is usually fairy tales, not mythology, but that was a separate question that I wasn't addressing. (And that question doesn't actually need to be addressed that way because that category is Read a book based on a fairy tale OR myth.) I think we've conflated the two separate questions because they were both about myths/mythology.

My point(s) was(were) that people have different beliefs and will interpret things differently. That I disagreed with automatically saying yes to angels and no to aliens as mythological creatures. That saying fantasy yes, science fiction no, wasn't a good way to look at it. The square doesn't specify fiction or nonfiction so I would say it depends more on the book and the reader. I wouldn't say a science book about the possibility of life on other planets would count, but a book (speculative fiction or speculative history) about aliens building the pyramids might. So 395> sturlington, in 377 you said no to aliens, but yes to gods, but if the aliens who built the pyramids were worshiped as gods, then it would count, right? And I wasn't disagreeing about the angels counting, it was more like angels and aliens can both be beings from elsewhere that come to Earth, so aliens shouldn't automatically be discounted.

And I think my major point was it's in the eye of the beholder. If you're unsure if something fits, ask about that specific book or pick something else.

396> You had to go there with the vampires and zombies, didn't you? LOL. I guess I read so much urban fantasy that I don't consider them mythological creatures anymore. They're not creatures - vampires are people, too! Or they were once. I guess I consider "creatures" animals, not humans/humanoids. So Pegasus, phoenix, dragons (except for shapeshifting/weredragons) would count as creatures for me. Kraken. Nellie. Maybe Bigfoot or Yetis although I have read books where they were more humanoid than animal. Shutting up now - LOL.

400> I agree.

On the mythological creatures issue, unless the author of the square has some specific guidelines, I say read what seems to fit for you. We're a cantankerous lot and coming up with a list that we all agree on would take years and many hurt feelings.

>403 RidgewayGirl: Don't worry, the one thing everyone is in agreement on is that what everyone chooses is up to them.

No one is going to police anyone else. But it is an interesting discussion that can spark book ideas you might not have thought about. I agree that when thinking mythological creatures, I wouldn't jump straight to vampires and zombies because they've become so mainstream. But I can see where they'd fit. (Especially sparkling vampires *shudders* not that I'd ever read those books).

>396 Her_Royal_Orangeness:, >400 PawsforThought: & >402 BookLizard: I'm the one who has made this suggestion. Good grammar never hurts, so 'Read a book with correspondence or letters', it is.

Writing in English is for me an exercice in formulation. So you all get to read, not too often I hope, these strange sentences and bad grammar ... I'm sorry as it's the kind of things that annoy me when done in French ;)

>406 electrice: I certainly don't think anyone was criticizing your (excellent) English! I like the formulation of "Read a book with correspondence or letters" because it includes books that are not ENTIRELY epistolary. For example, Where'd You Go, Bernadette has large sections of narration from one character, but the book is primarily composed of letters and other documents, so I'd want to be able to count it for this square.

>405 Samantha_kathy: it is an interesting discussion that can spark book ideas you might not have thought about
Yes. Absolutely.

>406 electrice: I agree with >407 christina_reads: that your English is excellent, but also that dropping the "epistolary" makes way for more choices (and, as I stated previously, it makes the square easier to read. Fewer words = larger font = easier to read)

The square containing "Read a book whose author has the same first name as your mother/grandmother (/other lineage)" will be a challenge to read.

>409 VivienneR: For sure. I haven't a clue what I'll do for that.

>410 .Monkey.: Read an author whose first name is the same as one of your progenitors ?

>410 .Monkey.:

Read an author whose first name matches one of your ancestors.

My mother's name isn't something "rare" but it's not very common, either. I don't know I've ever seen an author with her name (same for my father, too). I'm sure there are authors with both grandmothers' names, but none that I "know," i.e. probably nothing on my shelves or that I have a particular interest in reading. Which isn't to say there's nothing good by someone of those names, but nothing I know of. And my main goal is off my shelves, with sparse library reading. I'd probably have more luck with grandfathers. But we'll see. I may come up with something. But that doesn't change that I don't have a clue.

>413 .Monkey.: Do any of them have a middle name that might work?

>410 .Monkey.: Hahaha - I meant the length of the text for the square. This was in response to >408 PawsforThought: and the discussion about the wording of epistolary, letters, correspondence etc.

>412 LoisB: I like that suggestion. I don't see why it needs to be limited to mother or grandmother.

>415 VivienneR: Lol definitely did not read the wording to mean that! :P

>414 PawsforThought: Well my mother's is Lee... haha. I don't know any grandparents' middle names. At "worst" I'll read something for a grandfather instead of mother. I'll figure it out. :)

>>411 LShelby: >>412 LoisB: >>416 VivienneR: "Read a book whose author's first name is part of your lineage" is about 10 letters shorter.

>417 .Monkey.: There are tons of Lees!

>419 PawsforThought: The only one that comes to mind is Lee Child, and I'm not in any current need of more thriller writers to add to my collection, hahaha. I'm nearly positive I have no one named Lee on my shelves.

>420 .Monkey.: You have three books entered by James Lee Burke.

Yup, they were read a couple years ago. :) I do have one of his unread that I got more recently, but it's the first book of a huge series, so I have no intention of reading it for quite some time, or else I'd have forgotten it entirely by the time I got to the rest. ;)

>420 .Monkey.: Lee Martin was apparently shortlisted for the Pulitzer Prize (Fiction) in 2006. Also, people can have Lee as a surname! Harper Lee, Stan Lee...
Maybe someone called Lee has written an autobiography? Christopher Lee, Spike Lee, Ang Lee?

Search comes up with 15,361 authors named Lee. Almost too many to deal with.

Lol, I'm not disputing there's folks with the name. But there's none (aside of Burke) on my shelves. I'll manage, never fear! ;)

>425 .Monkey.: I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

>407 christina_reads: & >408 PawsforThought: Well I didn't take the critics in a bad way, I just think that the wording of my suggestion was indeed awkward. The new formulation is better and make for broader choices. My meaning was indeed to include books as Where'd you go Bernadette, I had a blast last year with this one so it's all good :)

>405 Samantha_kathy: I agree, I love this lively discussion. It makes me think of choices that I hadn't considered ...

The talk of mothers' names made me go have a look because my mum not only has a fairly common (and international) name, but ditto for her much used nickname. Apparently it's a name many famous people, particularly royalty and singers, use, but it's not very common with authors. Not authors I'm particularly interested in reading, at least. Aw, shucks. I may have a problem. There is a poet with that name so if I can find one of her works I'll probably go with that. Otherwise I'll have to go with dad (I know there are people writers with his name). Grandparents are out of the question. If I wanted to read something by someone with grandpa's name I'd have to read something from the bible.

I just found a really good sounding book by someone with my grandmother's name in the library catalogue. You mean I have to wait until next year to read it?

My mother always used a nickname, so I'm going to use that. I know of at least one author I want to read who shares it. As for her real name, I've never seen it for an author, at least not for one translated into English.

RE proper wording: No offense intended toward the square creator. I should have said that! :) Thanks for the badge >398 majkia:

RE wording in squares: Would it be possible to greatly abbreviate? Like: "same name, ancestors" "epistolary" "animal important" "inspired by" "unfamiliar topic" etc. Something that conveys the general idea without using the same exact phrasing as the list of categories.

RE: same name, ancestors (see what I did there? :) ): The book I'm reading for "inspired by another piece of fiction" was inspired by The Turn of the Screw by Henry James. My grandfather's name was Henry; my father's name is James. So, The Turn of the Screw works for me for the ancestoretc cateogry. Love how that worked out. :)

RE: mythical creatures. I've got a mermaid and that's all I need to know about that. :)

>431 Her_Royal_Orangeness: RE proper wording : none taken :)

RE mythical creatures : mermaids are also a possibility for me ... Or werewolf, or vampires or we'll see ... There's a lot of TBR on my shelves so it'll not be a problem to find something fitting for this one !

Well, the "Read a book" part won't be in the square at all so that helps. I haven't started making my bingo card yet so I don't know how small the text will look. Also, the smaller, less important words (like "of the" "in a", etc.) can be in a smaller font to make more room for the more important ones. It'll work itself out, I'm sure. Though it won't hurt to consider rephrasing the longest ones. If that's okay with the square creators, of course.
Like "Read a book where an animal is of importance" (which is mine, and I have no problem rephrasing it if need be) could be "Read a book where an animal is important" (-4) without changing the meaning (at least not that I can tell).

>431 Her_Royal_Orangeness: You're telling me Ariel isn't real?

>432 electrice: It's most likely be dragons for me. I have most of the Game of Thrones books still unread. If not, it'll be Dracula - the only vampire I'm willing to read about. Vamps, werewolves, angels and whatever else is popular nowadays is really not my thing.

Game of Thrones have dragons? I've got them on my TBR list but haven't gotten to them yet. If there's dragons, I might bump them up the list.

>435 Samantha_kathy: I haven't reached that point in the story yet but I believe so, yes. There are dragon eggs, at least.

yes, GOT has dragons, and prophecies and white walkers and a red comet and blue roses. ;)

>437 majkia: Well, is IS fantasy, so it'd be weird if it had none of it.

>433 PawsforThought: Alas, no, Ariel is not real. She's just a mythical creation of Sebastian and the seagull.

405> Especially sparkling vampires *shudders* not that I'd ever read those books Guess you just found one for "Read a book that's completely outside your comfort zone." ;-)

409> If you hadn't mentioned it, I would have forgotten that English isn't your first language.

429> Waiting is hard.

I don't know if anyone else here is a member of Early Reviewers, but I was looking at the new list and saw quite a few titles that would fit in our categories, and since many of the titles haven't been published yet, it will make it easier to wait until January.

I was adding a few titles to some of our suggestion lists last night, and thought it might be useful if we had a list for "super titles" - books that could easily fit 3 or more categories (or easily fit 2 and maybe fit 2 more with a little stretching). For example, To Say Nothing of the Dog; Or, How We Found the Bishop's Bird Stump at Last by Connie Willis:

• genre-bender - it's science fiction, mystery, historical fiction, romance, and comedy of manners
  
• inspired by another piece of fiction - Three Men in a Boat (To Say Nothing of the Dog) by Jerome K. Jerome
  
• centered around a major historical event - the bombing of the Coventry Cathedral in WWII
  
• about/with correspondence or letters - a diary is central, but letters help solve the mysteries
  
• where an animal is of importance - the cat, of course.
  

That's 5 right there - BINGO!

Just to join in the conversation a bit re: mythology. I will likely read something to do with Greek or Roman mythology. It helps that I'm in the middle of reading the Percy Jackson series. :-)

>440 BookLizard:
That's brilliant - I have To Say Nothing of the Dog on Mt. TBR. Saving that one for next year, then. :)

442> Start it in December for the Connie Willis group read, then finish it in January for the BingoDOG. Or read Doomsday Book with me in December since it's the first in the series.

Ooh, very clever!!!!

Just have to say that I'm hoping that we will be moving this thread over to 2015 group or at least continue it here because it's taking forever to load. PLEASE

445> At least there aren't too many pictures to slow things down.

440 > Guess you just found one for "Read a book that's completely outside your comfort zone." ;-) There's outside of my comfort zone, and then there's "not even if it's the last book on Earth" ;-)

>447 Samantha_kathy: Hear, hear! ;)

I created a List for "Faerie Mythology" books, which would work for both the mythology and mythic creatures categories. I added a link in the wiki.

And if you're looking for books that qualify for more than one category, there are a few titles on that list that would work. Ash works for mythic creature, based on a fairy tale and/or another work (Cinderella), and GLBTQ. And (at least) three are based on Shakespeare plays - The Great Night, A Midsummer Tempest, and Ill Met by Moonlight - so those would qualify for mythic creature and based on another work of fiction.

Another book that qualifies for (at least) two categories - Here on Earth by Alice Hoffman - which is inspired by Wuthering Heights and includes a horse that is sorta important.

And one more... A Companion to Wolves by Sarah Monette has wolves (animal), trolls (mythic creature), and is GLBTQ.

>447 Samantha_kathy: Indeed!

>440 BookLizard: Umm, we're not counting books for more than one square, are we??

>450 .Monkey.: I don't hink that's what was meant. I assume (though I might assume wrongly) that it's just meant to point out books that could be good reads for lots of people. Say you filled up your "important animal" square with The Curious Incident with the Dog in the Night-Time but you see that someone else has read Watership Down for that one and you want to read that, too! Well, lucky you because it also fits the "prophecy" square.

>451 PawsforThought: When I first started reading the post I figured it was intended to be a you can choose this for any of these, so if you find a different one that only fits one of them, this can go in one of these others sort of thing. But it ended with "That's 5 right there - BINGO!" so...

>452 .Monkey.: Yeah, that phrasing is a little strange.

Just wanted to point out that there is now a Bingo thread in the 2015 group: http://www.librarything.com/topic/180134.