SandDune in 2014: September thread

Welcome to my September thread. For those that don't know me from previous years, I'm SandDune (aka Rhian), a 53 year old Finance Manager working for a local charity. I live about thirty miles north of London in the UK with my husband of 25 years (aka Mr SandDune), our fourteen year son (aka J), our 2 year old sweet-tempered Staffordshire Bull Terrier Daisy, and 11 year old cat Sweep, who is not sweet-tempered at all as far as Daisy is concerned and whose life ambition is to drive Daisy out of the house. Mr SandDune is an Assistant Principal at the school that my son attends and so our lives tend to be rather dominated by school issues during term time. I'm half-way through an English Literature degree with the Open University and currently studying the Nineteenth Century Novel module.

My reading tends to be quite varied. Historically, I've read a lot of literary and classical fiction, but in recent years (thanks largely to LT but also my University course) I've been branching out and exploring science-fiction, fantasy, children's and YA fiction, and graphic novels. I read very little chick-lit, thrillers or detective fiction. I haven't read much non-fiction during the last couple of years but I hope to remedy that this year.

My selected painting for this month is:

'Belle of Bloomsbury' 1948 Sir Cedric Morris (1889 - 1982)



I particularly liked this one as it features a bull terrier, not a breed that you often see in paintings (not aristocratic enough). The dog is Swirl, who was owned by the artist's sister Nancy. The portrait was painted after her death from a photo.

Reading Plans for 2014:

This year I'm going to be a little more flexible in my reading plans. Last year I joined the 2013 category challenge but I didn't find that it really suited how I wanted to read, so in 2014 I'm just going to have some general overall goals:

First World War Centenary
As it's the 100th anniversary of the outbreak of the First World War, I'm intending to read at least some fiction connected with this period:

William: An Englishman Cicely Hamilton

American Author Challenge 2014
I am very poorly read in some of these American greats from the 20th century and so a lot of these authors will be new to me.

January Death Comes to the Archbishop Willa Cather
February William Faulkner not finished
March The Road Cormac McCarthy
April Bluest Eye Toni Morrison
May Eudore Welty not finished
June Galapagos Kurt Vonnegut

Vorkosigan Year Long Challenge
I read Shards of Honour in 2013 and I'm really looking forward to continuing this series.

Barrayar
The Warrior's Apprentice
The Vor Game

Open University reading
The Nineteenth Century Novel earlier in the year and then Twentieth Century Writing coming up.

Far From the Madding Crowd Thomas Hardy
Germinal Emile Zola
Madame Bovary Gustave Flaubert
The Woman in White Wilkie Collins
Middlemarch George Eliot
Heart of Darkness Joseph Conrad
Dracula Bram Stoker

RL book group
We read a book a month (mainly literary fiction), as well as the Booker prize short list every year.

January: Christmas meeting
February: No meeting because of illness
March: Tulip Fever Deborah Moggach
April: Brazzaville Beach William Boyd
May: The Sense of an Ending Julian Barnes (read previously and didn't reread.
June: missed meeting

In 2013 I read just over 100 books so this plan should leave me plenty of room for random picks and book bullets!

. The Faster I Walk, the Smaller I Am Kjersti A. Skomsvold ****
2. Barrayar Lois McMaster Bujold ****
3. Mr Penumbra's 24-Hour Bookstore Robin Sloan ***1/2
4. Turned out Nice: How the British Isles will Change as the World Heats Up Marek Kohn **1/2
5. We Need New Names NoViolet Bulawayo ***1/2
6. The Encyclopedia of Early Earth Isabel Greenberg ***1/2
7. Longbourn Jo Baker ***1/2
8. The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian Sherman Alexie ****
9. Servants A Downstairs View of Twentieth-Century Britain Lucy Lethbridge ***1/2
10. Far From the Madding Crowd Thomas Hardy ****1/2
11. Germinal Emile Zola ***1/2
12. Death Comes to the Archbishop Willa Cather ***1/2
13. The Lowland Jhumpa Lahiri *****
14. The Testament of Mary Colm Toibin ****1/2
15. William:An Englishman Cicely Hamilton ****
16. Madame Bovary Gustave Flaubert ****
17. Instructions for a Heatwave Maggie O'Farrell ***
18. Harvest Jim Crace ***
19. The Woman in White Wilkie Collins ****1/2
20. Tulip Fever Deborah Moggach ***1/2
21. The Wall Marlen Haushofer *****
22. The Road Cormac McCarthy ****1/2
23. The Portrait of a Lady Henry James ***
24. Farthing Jo Walton ***1/2
25. Excellent Women Barbara Pym ****
26. The Awakening Kate Chopin **1/2
27. Brazzaville Beach William Boyd ****
28. Giving up the Ghost Hilary Mantel ***1/2
29. The Undertaking Audrey Magee ****1/2
30. House-Bound Winifred Peck ***
31. The Rosie Project Graeme Simsion ***1/2
32. Shades of Grey Jasper Fforde ****
33. Jhereg Steven Brust ****1/2
34. Sargasso of Space Andre Norton ***
35. Eleanor and Park Rainbow Rowell ***1/2
36. Bluest Eye Toni Morrison ***
37. The Presence Dannie Abse ***
38. How to Read a Novel: A User's Guide John Sutherland ***1/2
39. Middlemarch George Eliot ****1/2
40. Heart of Darkness Joseph Conrad *****
41. The Diary of a Nobody George Grossmith Weedon Grossmith ***1/2
42. A Society Clown George Grossmith **
43. Journey to the Centre of the Earth ***
44. ^The Warrior's Apprentice Lois McMaster Bujold ****1/2
45. The Vor Game Lois McMaster Bujold ****
46. Dracula Bram Stoker ****
47. The Long Earth Terry Pratchett Stephen Baxter ***
48. Galapagos Kurt Vonnegut ***1/2
49. Wild Strawberries Angela Thirkell **1/2
50. Yendi Steven Brust ****
51. Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency Douglas Adams ***1/2
52. Whispers Under Ground Ben Aaronovitch ****
53. Rivers of London Ben Aaronovitch ****1/2
54. Orlando Virginia Woolf ****
55. Moon over Soho Ben Aaronovitch ***1/2
56. Doctor Thorne Anthony Trollope ****
57. The Bees Laline Paull ***
58. Americanah by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie ****1/2
59. Angelmaker Nick Harkaway ****
60. Some Kind of Fairy Tale Graham Joyce ****
61. The Waterproof Bible Andrew Kaufman ***1/2
62. Way Station Clifford D. Simak ***1/2
63. Cat Sense John Bradshaw ****
64. Teckla Steven Brust ****
65. Elizabeth is Missing Emma Healey ****1/2
66. The Life of Rebecca Jones Angharad Price **1/2
67. The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August Claire North ****1/2
68. Foreigner C.J.Cherryh ****
69. The Many Coloured Land Julian May ***
71. Invader C.J. Cherryh ****1/2
72. Major Pettigrew's Last Stand Helen Simonson ***
73. The Matchmaker Stella Gibbons ***
74. Addition Toni Jordan ***1/2
75. What I loved Siri Hustvedt **
76. Taltos Steven Brust ****1/2

And the prizes for 2014 are:

My five star reads:

The Lowland Jhumpa Lahiri
The Wall Marlen Haushofer
Heart of Darkness Joseph Conrad

My four and a half star reads:

Far From the Madding Crowd Thomas Hardy
The Testament of Mary Colm Toibin
The Woman in White Wilkie Collins
The Road Cormac McCarthy
The Undertaking Audrey Magee
Jhereg Steven Brust
Middlemarch George Eliot
The Warrior's Apprentice Lois McMaster Bujold
Rivers of London Ben Aaronovitch
Americanah by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
Elizabeth is Missing Emma Healey
The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August Claire North

Least favourite reads:

A Society Clown George Grossmith
The Awakening Kate Chopin
Turned out Nice: How the British Isles will Change as the World Heats Up Marek Kohn

Favourite new series:

Jhereg Steven Brust

And for 2013:

My five star reads:

Barchester Towers Anthony Trollope
The Garden of Evening Mists Tan Twan Eng
Tooth and Claw Jo Walton
The Unknown Bridesmaid Margaret Forster
The Lighthouse Alison Moore
The Ocean at the End of the Lane Neil Gaiman
Suite Francaise Irene Nemirovsky
Heart of Darkness Joseph Conrad
Northanger Abbey Jane Austen
Salvage the Bones Jesmyn Ward

Least favourite reads:

Narcopolis Jeet Thayil
The Damned Busters Matthew Hughes
Perelandra C.S.Lewis

Favourite new series:

Mapp & Lucia E.F.Benson

67. Foreigner C.J. Cherryh ****
I read this now because: I noticed that this series is on Audible, whereas the hard copy books are fairly difficult to get hold of in the UK, so I thought I embark on a reread (relisten) on the first one in the series that I read last year before embarking on the rest.



Here is my review from last year:

Several hundred years ago the spaceship Phoenix had discovered itself hopelessly off course and completely lost. Generations later The descendants of its original passengers attempt the first colonisation of the planet of the Atevi, an alien species that are similar to humans in appearance but built on a much larger and more robust scale. While neither side are initially hostile it soon becomes apparent that Atevi and human brains work in subtly different ways, and misunderstandings ensue that lead to war, a war which despite their more advanced technology the humans are too small in number to win. So to obtain peace and the island of Mospheira on which to live, the humans agree to gradually hand over their superior technology.

Fast forward two hundred years in the future: humans remain isolated on the island of Mospheira while the Atevi civilisation has advanced to the brink of space travel. But only one human is allowed onto the continent controlled by the Atevi: the paidhi, who acts as the only contact between the two species. But after a status quo lasting generations, it seems that the equilibrium is breaking down as an unknown assassin tries to kill Bren Cameron, the current paidhi. While political assassinations are a way of life amongst the Atevi, for the paidhi to be attacked by an unknown assailant in the house of Tabini, one of the most powerful Atevi rulers, is virtually unheard of. And as Bren is spirited away to the fortress of Malguri under the control of Tabini's unpredictable and ambitious grandmother, his situation becomes more and more precarious.

In Foreigner Cherryh has created a very believable world which focuses on the differences between the humans and the Atevi. The growing confusion that Bren feels as he finds everything that he thought he knew about the Atevi being challenged is clear. A slow moving book at the start, with little apparently happening for the first third or so, as Cherryh concentrates on building the world of the Atevi, but the world that is created more than makes up for this.

66. The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August Claire North ****
I read this now because: the idea of the multiple lives really appealed.



Harry August is born in 1919 the illegitimate son of a maidservant and her employer, the owner of a large house on the north of England. When his mother dies in childbirth he is brought up by the estate gardener and his wife who have no children of his own. He serves in the Second World War (but doesn't see much active service) and returns home to follow in his adopted father's footsteps by tending the gardens of the estate until his death at the end of the twentieth century.

An ordinary life and an ordinary man, you might think. Except that Harry finds himself reborn in the body of the child that he once was, with every single memory intact, an adult's consciousness and memory in a child's body. Unsurprisingly finding this difficult to deal with he finds himself shut away at a very young age in the local asylum, where a successful suicide attempt seems to offer the only escape from what he can only assume is madness. Except that the cycle starts again, Harry is back as a young child with the memories of two lives now rather than just one. And in his third life the conundrum is explained, Harry is a kalachakra, an individual who is destined to be reborn again and again into the same life. And as his lives continue, they settle down into a successful pattern, after all, knowing the future has certain monetary advantages. Until the day when on one of his many deathbeds he receives a message from the future by means of a young child, a fellow kalachakra, that the world is ending, and that it is ending faster and faster with each psuccessive life, and that it is up to the kalachakra of Harry's generation to prevent it ...

Claire North is a pseudonym of Kate Griffin whose A Madness of Angels I enjoyed a lot earlier in the year. But this has a quite different feel, less urban fantasy, more SF, and I enjoyed it even more. Highly recommended.

Happy New Thread, Rhian.

Thanks Barbara!

Happy new thread, Rhian!

The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August sounds intriguing...

Happy new thread, Rhian!

>9 katiekrug: Intriguing is the right word... I love time travel stories, and this is an unusual variation on that as the kalachakra have only to die to be catapulted back eighty years or so to the period of their birth, but with all the knowledge that they have gained during their life. I enjoyed it a lot

Hi Rhian - Happy New Thread. Nice comments on Harry August- I thought it was a very original take on time travel.

>2 SandDune: Did you skip the July and August AAC authors, or do you just need to update your list? I skipped Philip Roth, myself.

Hi Rhian, just marking my spot on your new thread. Love the painting of the bull terrier.

>6 SandDune: Straight to the wish list!

>12 BLBera: Beth, I hope she writes some more in the same vein, although this one doesn't lend itself to having a sequel.

>13 laytonwoman3rd: Linda, I did skip July and August. Not really by design, but I tend to have less reading time over the summer (apart from our two weeks away) and just didn't get around to Mark Twain or Philip Roth. Also I've been on a bit of a SF / Fantasy kick. But I'm intending to do James Baldwin in September.

>14 lit_chick: Nancy, I love the way she's sitting. Although Daisy is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier not a Bull Terrier there's a definite similarity in their posture! And also her very bare tummy - Daisy's pretty nude underneath as well!

>15 ronincats: Hi Roni, welcome to the new thread.

Oh, the Harry August books *does* sound good - thanks for the review!

For those that were reading my last thread, you'll remember the sad sight of my chewed shoes. So I decided Daisy might need some more toys to distract her from other crucial parts of my wardrobe. So on Sunday I bought her a new chewy bone and one of those large 'tennis' balls that are made for dogs. This was the state of the ball by Sunday evening:



I don't know if they make these dog versions to a lower standard than real tennis balls, which usually do last longer: a week at least! I know tennis balls aren't the most robust things in the world but she does like them. She gets hold of them by the fluff and throws them about herself which she thinks is great fun.

Just catching up... a few things from your previous thread :)

Regarding lamb - I'm from the western side of the US, and I don't know very many people who eat lamb regularly. For one thing, compared to beef, pork and chicken, it's pretty expensive. The places it would be seen most often are Indian and Greek restaurants. My father grew up on a sheep ranch, and we often had lamb. I quite like it. My grandmother could make the most delicious roast... When I started buying groceries here in NZ, I was surprised to find lamb to be more economical than chicken. Consequently, my family eats it more often than we used to.

Oooh Daisy. If you were my dog, I'd put you in the cone of shame.

I'm sort of intrigued by The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August. I'm considering it anyway. lol

LOL, Daisy! Well, the tennis ball saved your shoes for as long as it lasted. You may need to keep a substantial supply of these on hand, Rhian!

LOL I guess you need a big box of supplies for Daisy.

(Darn; new thread and already two book bullets. *grumbles*)

Happy new thread, anyway, Rhian ;0)

I can just imagine Daisy with her tennis balls! I like the picture at the top, too. Is that the whole painting, or did you focus on just the dog portion of it?

>17 scaifea: Hi Amber I'm sure you'd like the Harry August.

>19 nittnut: cone of shame? I suppose that's one of the disadvantages of having a staffie - they do love to chew, and they've got strong jaws and can demolish most dog toys in an hour or so. She is much better than she used to be but those shoes probably rank as the most expensive thing she's chewed, along with my sheepskin boots when she was a puppy, although they were quite old. I did think she'd swallowed quite a nice earring that I'd dropped once. She hadn't (I took her to the vets to check) but when the earring turned up three days later it was discovered in Daisy's mouth so my suspicions weren't altogether groundless.

>20 lit_chick: >21 Ameise1: She's actually quite successful at finding balls that other dogs have lost, when we're out for a walk. She's never really got the hang of 'fetch' though: she loves to chase after a ball but has never got the idea that she was supposed to bring it back.

>22 humouress: As far as I can tell it is the whole painting. She looks such a lovely relaxed dog.

>23 SandDune: Have you seen the film UP? It's a line from that. We are nerdy film quoters over here. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R58kSuIhURI

I suppose it would be a disadvantage to have a dog that loved to chew all the time. We had two dogs growing up, a Beagle and a Basset Hound. Neither of them were puppies when we got them, so we didn't really deal with a lot of chewing. One epic disaster though was the Beagle chewing off the hands of my baby doll. I had left her outside though, so I was somewhat to blame.

>6 SandDune: - Ooh, that sounds good.

Daisy reminds me of my sister's dog who is a lab/pit bull mix. Not exactly physically, but more energy-wise. They are both adorable.

>24 nittnut: Oh yes, I remember that bit. Daisy does have advantages: she virtually never barks (I suppose that could be a disadvantage if you want a guard dog, but a distinct advantage if you've got a husband who can't stand yappy dogs) and she's very friendly with everyone.

>25 DorsVenabili: I've discovered recently that Daisy would be quite likely to be considered a pit bull if she lived in the States. Here she is definitely not considered one, as pit bulls are illegal, and she is a pedigree Staffordshire Bull Terrier which is definitely legal. I think most people in the UK would consider a pit bull as something a lot larger and heavier than Daisy, but I've read recently that the definition in the US would include staffies? But according to the Dangerous Dogs Act anything which 'looks' like a pit bull can be classed as one and thus destroyed even if it has no actual pit bull in its gene pool at all. There is a lot of controversy about the act, as it seems to have done nothing to reduce the number of dog attacks, while condemning large number of healthy dogs to death.

I have got really behind on my thread again this week. Had a great day out on Saturday with Darryl, Fliss, Luci and Rachael (as I'm sure you've read much more promptly on Darryl's thread). I don't think I've had a day where so much time was devoted to eating in a long time! No sooner had we finished lunch, than it was time for coffee (or tea) and cake (or scones and clotted cream in the case of some people)! Got home absolutely stuffer only to be confronted by Mr SandDune just about to serve dinner, so had to eat more food.

This week has been busy. Today I'm feeling a bit frazzled with having had a plumber here most of the day to fit a new sink (we finally gave up trying to fix the leak) as well as a carpet fitter putting down the carpet in J's bedroom. And I hate having people doing things around the house, especially when I can't even get at the kettle to make a cup of coffee. But it's all done now, and everyone seems to have done a reasonable job.

But yesterday there was some upsetting news here. The dogs' home in Manchester, which apparently is the largest one outside London, was the victim of an arson attack and went up in flames. Sixty dogs were killed with a lot more injured: I find it quite disturbing that someone would do that on purpose. The police have arrested a fifteen year old on suspicion of arson:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29168971

How awful about the dogs' home. There are no words for that kind of cruelty.

>27 SandDune: >28 laytonwoman3rd: Unspeakable.

I heard about that fire - so awful. I have no words.

How lovely about your LT meetup. It sounds like lots of fun.

So sad about the dogs' home. Awful.

Why anyone would arson anything is disturbing. Arson on a dog's home.... Words fail me. Those poor animals.

>27 SandDune: Rhian this arson thing is so awful. I don't know why people can be so malicious.

I've read over at Darryl's about the 'eating day'. I thought than that I wouldn't be to do so.

There's been much debate in our house about the referendum on Scottish independence (to be held next week). From a strong lead a few months ago the 'No' campaign has gradually been losing ground and most recent polls are showing the campaigns neck and neck. I find it quite concerning on purely selfish grounds, as an independent Scotland would tend to lurch the rest of country politically to the right. At the moment, Scotland sends 59 MPs to the UK parliament, of which 41 are Labour and only 1 Conservative (there has only been one Conservative MP elected by Scotland since 1997). Removing all these MPs from the UK parliament is therefore greatly to the detriment of Labour, but not at all to the detriment of the Conservatives. So, as someone who is a Labour supporter (and one who already feels isolated in the Conservative heartland of South-East England I find it worrying. And as Scotland is consistently more liberal on social issues than is England removing that influence would allow potentially more hard line policies to prevail much more frequently.

I'm of the view that it is for Scotland to decide whether they are independent, and certainly don't feel personally affronted by the 'yes' campaign as many English people seem to be. Mr SandDune is more attached to the union for its own sake, but he jokes that if Scotland becomes independent and joins the EU, while the rest of the UK decides to leave it (quite possible in my view if the promised referendum is held), then maybe we should consider emigrating to Scotland! We wouldn't, of course, but we would be left with a country that would be moving far from our own views, which is concerning.

>34 SandDune: thanks for sharing your perspective, Rhian. I am not informed enough to have an opinion, but have been following the news coverage with interest. It's helpful to hear from a real living breathing person about potential consequences of a "yes" result.

Rhian, I wish you a lovely weekend.

Oh, those poor dogs! I just can't even process this properly - it makes me so sad.

I work with a couple of Scots who are now resident in England, and neither of them are in favour of independence. In fact one of them turns quite apoplectic as soon as it is mentioned, which has a certain comedy value, if nothing else. They also don't get a vote, not being resident. There was, apparently (I haven't checked), some rule that Scots who owned property on Scotland could vote - as long as they did not live in England. If so, that strikes me as getting awfully close to trying to fix the result. I'm not in favour (not that I get any say in the matter). Not being a political person, I don't have the party loyalty that Rhian does, but I do think that diversity is important, and that by losing the range of people, occupation, landscape, history, culture etc that Scotland has we'd be doing both sides a disservice.

Rhian
Thanks for all these wonderful lists. I note that you, like me, thought highly of The Testament of Mary. I thought the author had a wonderful way of making Mary into a real-life person. In particular, the way in which she doubted her son, is so different from the way in which religion tends to paint her as a sainted martyr.

Today's poll result is "no" = 54% apparently, but one of the news people made an interesting point, which is that they are only polling people who have voted before, and not the young ones who have registered to vote for the first time this time. He said that their decision could sway it. I'm not sure why they're not being polled - maybe the register hasn't been published yet. The doom-laded economic predictions for a "yes" vote are certainly increasing, aren't they? I wonder how long it will take to count the votes, and then exactly what happens afterwards if it's "yes".

>28 laytonwoman3rd: >29 humouress: >30 katiekrug: >31 nittnut:>32 >33 Ameise1: >37 scaifea: There has been an incredible outpouring of support with over a million pounds raised for the charity in forty-eight hours, so at least they will be able to help a lot more dogs in the future. And apparently its sister home has been overwhelmed by offers of support:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29192558

>35 lauralkeet: >38 Helenliz: >40 susanj67: I think the 'no' vote will win, but I'm finding it a little too close for comfort at the moment. Over the last week I've encountered two Scots living locally to me, one enthusiastically supporting the 'yes' campaign and the other equally adamant that it would be a disaster, and both extremely annoyed that they don't have a vote!

>36 Ameise1: Lovely autumn picture Barbara!

>39 Whisper1: Linda, yes The Testament of Mary was wonderful. I'm certainly going to read it again in the not too distant future.

My other half and I are watching the Scottish vote very closely as he is Scottish born. I agree with Rhian's statement that a removal of Scotland - and its strong Labour presence in Parliament - will have a predominant impact on the governance Great Britain. I am reminded of a conversation I had 18 months ago with a new work colleague on the subject. He was, at the time, a recent English immigrant to Canada still going through his landed immigrant status process, and he was asking me why Scotland would want to leave the UK. Half of me wanted to ask him way he was going to all the effort to obtain citizenship in Canada if he was questioning why Scotland would want to seek their own independence, but I decided to bite my tongue and not go there.

Interesting situation in Scotland, Rhian, and as you say there are cogent arguments either way which makes it understandable the vote would be close and hard to predict.

Horrifying news about the dog shelter - it even made the news here. Arson and animal cruelty are two of the strong early signifiers of adult psychopathy (most serial killers commit one or both as teenagers), so if they've got the right person immediate intensive therapy is vital.

How absolutely horrible and sad about the dogs' home. Why would anybody do that!?!?

The media here on the continent have finally started covering the Scotland referendum, probably because the polls now show a chance that it might end with a victory for "yes". For a long time all you read was how well-organized and fair and exemplary the referendum was going to be, with no-one really looking at the potential consequences. While I am neither for nor against it, it makes me nervous how many other (half-)autonomous regions hope for a separation, as an example for their own wishes for independence. My region is among those although it is too small, they are hoping for Gross-Tirol as an autonomous part of Austria - for me that would be a reason to move further South, I like Italy. The other Northern parts of Italy once again started phantasizing about forming an own country. Then there are the Catalans again...

That's interesting about Labour, I haven't seen that mentioned anywhere. More the usual EU/ non-EU or Euro/GBP question. It's not my business, but for me it feels like the UK better shouldn't lose too many Labour MPs.

>43 lkernagh: >44 lyzard: >45 Deern: I suppose the difference between Scotland and some of the other European regions is that it did have a long history as an independent country, and even after the Act of Union, still retained distinctive legal, educational and religious systems. And for the last thirty years or so it's been moving in a different direction politically from England, or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that England's been moving away from Scotland. So under the current Scottish assembly, the Scots have no University fees, no prescription charges, free personal and nursing care for those assessed as needing it, all quite ideological differences with England. There seems to be a belief among certain sections of the English population that the Scots are a poor relation that are somehow being 'ungrateful' for all England has done for them, whereas in fact Scotland overall is a reasonably prosperous part of the UK with the second highest GDP outside London and the South East. Even if there is a no vote I think the ramifications will run and run, and will certainly reappear if the UK as a whole votes to leave the EU (which isn't beyond the realms of possibility by any means). A lot of the 'Yes' arguments seem to rest on the fact that Scotland, as part of the UK, has access to the much wider European market, an argument which is of course irrelevant if the UK as a whole were to leave.

Finished Invader yesterday, the second book in the Foreigner series, which I enjoyed hugely. I very much wanted to go straight on to the next in the series Inheritor but I'm listening to this on Audible and I've run out of credits, so I'm going to have to wait.

Also finished The Many-Coloured Land by Julian May which I read years and years ago and remembered enjoying but never read any of the sequels. Unfortunately, that one wasn't as good as I remembered, and I'm not as eager to read the second book as I'd hoped: if it comes my way I'll give it a go but I'm not going to expend much effort searching for it. It's certainly not as appealing as continuing with the other sci-fi / fantasy series that I'm reading at the moment: the Foreigner series for a start, the Jhereg series by Steven Brust, and the Vorkosigan series by Lois McMaster Bujold.

Feeling rotten today, but am feeling duty bound to drag myself into work as there is something I really need to do. J has had a cold for several days, and has now given it to me with a vengeance, and Mr SandDune also woke up this morning feeling groggy. And the worst time to be ill is when everyone else is ill as well so you don't get any sympathy!

A very belated happy new thread Rhian. And sorry to hear you've come down with a cold. I agree the worst time to be ill is when everyone else in the house is (and I suspect you still have to look after J and Mr SandDune as well as yourself!)

>5 SandDune:, >6 SandDune: Really enjoyed your reviews of Foreigner and The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August. I enjoy Cherryh's books but I'm concentrating on her shorter series for now because a 15 book series is a bit overwhelming!

>27 SandDune: I saw the news about the dog's home. Very upsetting. I feel for the dogs and the staff who worked there.

I don't know what to think about the referendum. I don't want Scotland to leave but I think it needs to be their choice. I'm more concerned that there doesn't seem to have been much thought about how things will work if Scotland leaves.

Oh, no! I'm sorry that you're not feeling well - I hope it passes quickly!

Have come home from work early to cuddle up on the sofa with Daisy. I got done what absolutely had to get done and decided that the rest could be left for another day. Now feeling even worse. Tea will need to be something from the freezer, I think.

>51 SandDune: Tea will need to be something from the freezer, I think.
Now there's a phrase that sounds funny to the American ear. I know you mean tea as a light evening meal, but on this side of the pond tea refers only to a beverage, served hot or iced but never frozen!

Dog snuggles can be the perfect cure for what ails you. I hope Daisy works her magic, and you're feeling better soon.

>52 lauralkeet: Exactly my reaction. And "from the freezer" doesn't evoke the warm and cozy that I'd expected is needed.

>52 lauralkeet: >53 qebo: Now there's a phrase that sounds funny to the American ear. Actually, as a fully paid-up member of the middle-class of South-East England I shouldn't say 'tea' at all, I should say 'dinner' or 'supper' instead! I should only refer to a meal as 'tea' if it's afternoon tea with cakes and scones and sandwiches, or if only children are being served (with the adults eating later). But actually both myself (being Welsh) and Mr SandDune (being from Yorkshire) were brought up to refer to our main evening meal as 'tea' and we've continued to do so, probably (at least on my part) as a deliberate act of reverse snobbery. So what I mean by 'tea' is not necessarily a 'light' meal at all. Tonight, I know that there is some moussaka in the freezer (probably the thing that requires the least cooking on my part) so we will have that, with some French bread (also in freezer) and a green salad.

That sounds pretty tasty, Rhian. and perfect comfort food! I'm a veteran of tea as it refers to a children's meal -- that was a custom we had to adapt to pretty quickly when we lived there. It was expected if a child came over to play after school, that you would feed them (or your child would be fed if they visited a friend). Fortunately we discovered this practice before we had any young visitors to our house, and avoiding offending any parents (at least where matters of tea were concerned ...)

>55 lauralkeet: When J was younger I got the impression that we were considered 'odd' as regards children's tea. Even when J was tiny we virtually always ate together as a family about seven pm, whereas most of his friends were fed at around 5-5.30 at the latest, with their parents eating separately at around 8-8.30. I got the distinct impression that some mothers felt it was a clear dereliction of my child feeding duties to feed him so late. (Of course we had to conform to the norm when he had friends around). And eating separately meant that most of his friends were given distinct 'children's food' whereas J ate what we ate with no exceptions. I remember a couple of occasions when an impromptu play date found me with nothing at all in the house that the visiting child would eat! One occasion I'd made barbecue chicken with rice and peas, which I thought was a safe bet, but the boy didn't eat rice or vegetables or anything with sauce on it. So we tried some bread and cheese, but then we had the wrong sort of cheese, and it ended up being just bread!

Hope you're feeling better, nothing worse than dragging yourself out to do something when you'd far rather be under the covers.
In our house tea from the freezer is called Freezer surprise, as I'm not always entirely assiduous in clearly labeling the tubs, nor in cleaning previous labels from the lids. So while we've not yet ended up with something sweet that I was expecting to be savory, my prediction as to what the tub contains is not always 100% accurate. We also manage to disrupt the north/south naming of meals, tending to have lunch and tea, which manages to be in neither tradition. And seeing as we're from either sides of the north/south divide, that seems an equitable compromise.

>54 SandDune: I'm very glad to have your explanation of the different meanings of "tea" as a meal, Rhian. I've noticed in literature and drama that it doesn't always seem to mean the same thing, but hadn't really sorted it out fully. Feeding the children early and then having adult dinner later always seemed to me to be an awful lot of trouble, leaving very little time for anything else at the end of the day. Of course I realize it probably originated in households where the "help" was doing all the prep, serving the children and cleaning up. But still. Once our daughter stopped going to bed before 8:00 p.m., we all ate together around 7 in our house too. It didn't fit in with most of her friends' home schedules either, and was awkward when she had evening activities, but we all accommodated, somehow.

Get well soon, Rhian.

>56 SandDune: >58 laytonwoman3rd: We've always had dinner as a family, too. It felt strange whenever the kids had friends for tea, and it often meant my husband and I had less of a sit-down dinner ourselves, just grabbing something quick instead of cooking a decent meal.

I've nothing to add to the conversation, but just wanted to chime in to say that I'm really enjoying the Tea discussion!

Also, I hope you're starting to feel a bit better today, Rhian...

Terrible about the dog's home, just heartbreaking. I'm glad folks are pouring out the support.

Fascinating about the referendum - I, too, really appreciated the personal perspective. I've tried diligently reading about it elsewhere but it doesn't stick very well. It reminds me of the various cycles Quebec has been through (of interest to Vermont since they are a major neighbor). So far they haven't made the jump, but it could happen and everyone knows it.

Finally, your troubles with tea/supper/dinner time resonated with me. I grew up in the country eating our last meal at around 7 p..m. - and in fact, we normally had something we didn't call tea, but was, in fact, tea (and included tea once you were over 12) when we got home from school. Then chores and homework and then we ate supper/dinner. It was a fairly formal meal as well, in the dining room etcetera. Friends found it all quite strange then..... fast forward..... in the Philadelphia in the city years we did all right eating at 7 but here in the country, it was back to square one. And most of the meetings for various Boards my spousal unit is on and my music practice and everything else all start at 7 p.m. so we eat ping-pong style now. Hasty meal at 6 on meeting/music nights and otherwise, 7. Our daughter's friends were always kind of amazed -- and I know some of them got rather hungry waiting -- but they were very good about eating everything, except maybe vegetables. Vermont kids were surprisingly sophisticated about food. Many of them seemed stunned even by the simple things I cooked them (say, a big meatloaf....) and I got the feeling that many of them were on their own with the cheese and noodles most nights.

I should add, boarding school was much the same. There was tea at 4 after school was out if you weren't doing any late activity and were back at the dorm, dinner was at 6:30. Coffee hour, 7-8 was when the boys could come and hang about, so lots of coffee-drinking to set you up to do homework!

Hope I wasn't too boring about the tea stuff - I find comparing things we all do in different places interesting. I've always assumed that my parents were (somewhat stubbornly) pursuing some folkway from their own upbringing.... or in my mother's case, blithely swimming upstream, as was often her way.

Neither my husband or I were brought up to eat particularly late. We both came from households where supper was on the table (or nearly so) when my mother (who was usually later home than my dad) came through the door. She always left instructions for me and my dad to get things started (peel the potatoes, set the table, put the meatloaf in the oven, make the salad, etc.). Although often my grandmother would be on hand to help, or even to cook the whole evening meal. I think we rarely ate later than 6:00 p.m.

I grew up in a suburban neighborhood on a small dead-end street, lots of families with kids around my age. After school we played outdoors (there was a woods behind our houses), and some families had their own way of calling their children home for dinner, like ringing a loud cowbell. I don't remember my parents having any special way to summon us, I just knew to be home by 6 and the neighbor's cowbell was usually my cue. Everyone in the neighborhood ate dinner around the same time (6ish) and, tbh, we usually still do so in my family unless we're going out.

Missing dinner when I was a kid wasn't a big thing, as dinner/Abendessen =evening meal was always breads, cheese, pickles, cold cuts and soft drinks or in winter herbal teas. If you weren't there in time, a sandwich was put into the fridge. If there was a fried egg or boiled potatoes with butter and curd cheese it was already a big affair.
Lunch was the only warm meal, but once I started high school I often only returned after 3pm and my mother stopped cooking altogether, so it was more sandwiches. No school cantines then, this has changed now. Tea or coffee in the afternoon, often with danishes or cakes are still popular in Germany. And back then kids of every age got their cup of coffee or black tea unless they refused them and insisted on chocolate. I quite liked my cup of coffee, best with a jam sandwich.

Completely different in Italy. Most people really eat 2 warm meals per day, and they do cook and usually include a salad or vegetables. Breakfast is sweet (cake, danish, cookies or jam croissant). Living here has improved my diet considerably.

Okay so I *will* add something, re: timing of evening meal:

I grew up in a house where we usually ate 'supper,' our last meal of the day, at 4:30. This was mostly because we've always had members of the household (my brother and my uncle at the time, and now my mom) who were/are Type 1 Diabetics and they were/are on strict schedules as far as eating times go. Now, in my own home, we sometimes eat dinner that early on the weekends and during the week it's usually no later than 5:30 or 6:00 - just whenever Tomm gets home.

>57 Helenliz: I have to admit that I didn't actually make the moussaka myself, so no problems with the labelling. Most of our leftovers that end up in the freezer end up for my lunch, and with a husband and son with large appetites there isn't usually that much left anyway! I do have a bit of the same problem when it comes to labelling though - a couple of weeks ago I took what I was sure was chilli to work, turned out to be something completely different!

>58 laytonwoman3rd: Linda, this extract from Watching the English by Kate Fox might throw more light on tbe subtle clues that use of these words might be throwing out in an English context. This is from the chapter on linguistic class codes:

There are, however, seven words that the English uppers and upper-middles regard as infallible shibboleths (Pardon, Toilet, Serviette, Dinner, Settee, Lounge, Sweet). Utter any one of these 'seven deadly sins' in the presence of these higher classes, and their on-board class-radar devices will start bleeping and flashing: you will be immediately demoted to middle-middle class, at best, probably lower - and in some cases automatically classified as working class.

Dinner:
There is nothing wrong with the word 'dinner' in itself: it is only a working class hallmark if you use it to refer to the midday meal, which should be called 'lunch'. Calling your evening meal 'tea' is also a working-class indicator: the higher echelons call this meal 'dinner' or 'supper'. (Technically, a dinner is somewhat grander than a supper: if you are invited to 'supper', this is likely to be an informal meal, eaten in the kitchen - sometimes this is made explicit, as in 'family supper' or 'kitchen supper'. The uppers and upper-middle use the term 'supper' more than the middle- and lower-middles). 'Tea' for the higher classes, is taken around four o'clock, and consists of tea and cakes or scones (which they pronounce with a short 'o') and perhaps little sandwiches (pronounced 'sanwidges' not 'sand-witches'). The lower classes call this 'afternoon tea'. All of this can pose a few problems for foreign visitors: if you are invited to 'dinner', should you turn up at midday or in the evening? Does 'come for tea' mean four o'clock or seven o'clock? To be safe you will have to ask what time you are expected.

>68 SandDune: That sounds like a book I would love to peruse. Thanks, again, Rhian!

>68 SandDune: >69 laytonwoman3rd: I enjoyed that book. Thanks for reminding me of it.

70. Major Pettigrew's Last Stand Helen Simonson ***
I read this now because: I'm still feeling poorly and I thought it would be a nice feel-good read

Major Pettigrew is a sixty-eight year old widower living in the quiet village of Edgecombe St. Mary near the south coast of England. When Mrs Ali, the widowed owner of the local corner shop, knocks on his door one day to collect his payment for his newspaper deliveries, she encounters a shaken major who has just had the news of his brother Bertie's sudden death. From this unpromising beginning they discover that they have more in common that they had ever realised, both sharing a love of books. But the Major's friends, and Mrs Ali's family, do not approve, and the course of true love, as ever, does not run smooth. And there is also single-parent Amina and her young son George's problems to share, as well as those of Mrs Ali's nephew Abdul Wahid...

I have very mixed feelings about this book. On the one hand the story of the sixty-eight year old widower Major Pettigrew's growing friendship for Mrs Ali, the slightly younger widow of Pakistani origin who runs the local shop, is a sweet and touching one. On the other hand ... well the first thing that I did on finishing the book was look up exactly how long the author had been living in the US. Because the main problem for me was that despite the book being supposedly set in twenty-first century Britain, the social attitudes and concerns of the inhabitants of the village of Edgecombe St. Mary are firmly those of a previous generation, people who would be in their eighties or nineties now, not in their fifties or sixties. If you took out any reference to mobile phones and the internet, I'd have set the book in the 1970's, no later. A real-life Edgecombe St. Mary today would be worrying about the influx of Romanian farm workers and Polish plumbers, not one shop run by an Asian family. As the son of an unmarried mother George is supposedly ostracised (as he says 'If you have a Mum and not a Dad, they don't play with you') because he comes from a single parent family. But this seems far fetched in the extreme when over a quarter of children in the UK live in single parent families and nearly half are born outside marriage. And I can't see rice being deemed too exotic to serve for the golf club dinner in a country where chicken tikka masala is supposed to be a national dish.

This could have been a much better book in my opinion if the author had just got the background right. I've noticed some reviewers commenting on various 'Americanisms' creeping into the text. I didn't notice too many, but there was one glaring one: Major Pettigrew's son Roger attempts to secure the rental of a cottage by waving a 'cashier's check' in the face of its owner. We don't actually have cashier's checks (and if we did they'd be spelt cheques anyway): we have banker's drafts. Nitpicking I know, but in a novel that trades on its Englishness I think you ought to get the details right.

>60 lauralkeet: >61 scaifea: >62 sibylline: >63 laytonwoman3rd: >64 lauralkeet: When I was growing up we had 'tea' around 5.30 to 6.00pm but then my Dad worked only a few minutes up the road and was often home by 5.15pm. In this area, most people travel into London to work, and frequently don't have the sort of job where they are home early, and I think that has a lot to do with the different meal times.

>65 Deern: When J went on his exchange to Germany, he complained that he was given bread and cheese and salami to eat every most evenings. I'd put it down to a peculiarity of his host family, I hadn't realised that it was a normal thing! He does like bread and cheese and salami but found it quite monotonous every day, and he's used to two cooked meals a day (one at school and one at home) so it was a bit of a shock to the system. Italian food is probably his favourite so he's got great hopes of his trip to Italy in a few weeks time.

>71 SandDune: Well that's a pretty thorough and informative review for a comfort read. :-)

>66 scaifea: I think I would really struggle with no food after 4.30! I think I'd have to have a little something later on.

The place where we have visited where we'd struggled the most with the food times was Northern Spain (I may have said this before). We were staying in the Picos de Europa mountains and the restaurants in the local town didn't open until 9pm. We were frequently standing outside ravenously hungry waiting for them to open, and even then we'd probably be the only customers until about 10pm. And it was heavy, meaty cuisine too - not at all the sort of thing to eat late at night in my opinion.

>73 qebo: I always tend to write longer reviews when something has annoyed me about the book! Not as comforting as originally intended.

>71 SandDune: Excellent review and I completely understand why the book irritated you -- those same issues would have bothered me as well. Did you get an answer to your question, exactly how long the author had been living in the US ? Were they basing the story on "what things were like when I left"?

>76 lauralkeet: From what I could find out she'd been in the US at least twenty years, so for most of her adult life. I think some of the characters were probably based on the type of people she'd encountered when growing up. But the whole feel of it was wrong to me, which was a pity because overall it was a well written book with a sweet story.

>71 SandDune:. Very interesting review of Major Pettigrew's Last Stand, Rhian.

I liked that book a lot, mainly for the sweet relationship at the center you mention, and I was impressed by the quality writing coming from a first time author. But as an American the inaccuracies sailed over my head. That kind of thing would bug me, too, if someone from another country set a story in the U.S. and blew details like that.

Although it does remind me that Kafka's Amerika was hilarious in being about a country only he knew.

Looks like we're not going to need a passport to head north. 85% turnout is reassuringly high and 55% to 45% is close but decisive. Phew! sums that up.

I liked Major Pettigrew's Last Stand better than you did, but there was something that sounded wrong. Now I know what it was.

>72 SandDune: Just remembered that last year, when my neighbour's son was due to leave for his 3 months stay with a German family, I told him he shouldn't believe bread, cheese and sausage were just the antipasti, but that this would be all he was going to get. :)

>71 SandDune: Rhian, what a good review. I agree with you about the things that bugged you, although I didn't really notice at the time. Perhaps I was reading it from the point of view of someone in London, assuming things are different outside the capital, but I think you're absolutely right.

>79 Helenliz: Helen, yes, at last there is an answer, but I wonder for how long? I wasn't really paying attention to how the referendum got off the ground in the first place. Could they call another one in a few years' time? I had a disturbed night with a big electrical storm here, so I kept waking up and checking the BBC website on my Kindle. Now I'm drinking very strong tea! It looked closer at the beginning than it ended up being.

I replied to everyone this afternoon, and then lost my post completely. It's so irritating when that happens!

>78 jnwelch: I know if a book was set in the US with similar issues they would go right over my head and I wouldn't worry at all, so I'd end up giving it a much better rating. Very unfair I know! What worried me more than anything was the fact that the generations just seemed wrong: Major Pettigrew and his friend seemed as if they should be in their seventies and eighties rather than their fifties and sixties. I'd have believed an eighty-eight year old Major Pattigrew, but not a sixty-eight year old one.

>79 Helenliz: >81 susanj67: I do find it worrying though, that 45% of the population of Scotland is so disatisfied with the current situation that they want to change countries. I think the referendum process has opened up a whole can of worms though. While logically I can't argue with all these shouts of English votes for English laws, but for someone of my political views I think that's going to result in a country that isn't going the way I would personally like.

>80 Deern: Just a thought, but what about vegetables? Or fruit? Does Germany have a recommended number of fruit and vegetable portions, and if so how does anyone manage it? It's 'five a day' here, and I thought we were quite low internationally (France is 'ten a day' I know).

>81 susanj67: I don't live in a village, although I know lots of people who do, and we've got lots of traditional villages around here with all the trappings: manor houses, timber-framed houses, thatched cottages, medieval churches, even the golf club. And I'm not saying that there aren't issues of class consciousness, snobbery and probably racism as well, as there are in all parts of society. It's just that the particular combination of deference to traditional hierarchies, extremely conservative social attitudes, and blatant racism shown in this book seem something out of E.F.Benson's Mapp and Lucia, rather than what things are like now.

68. The Many-Coloured Land Julian May ***
I read this now because: I'd read it a very long time ago and remembered enjoying it and thought it might be worth a reread.

A hundred or so years in the future humanity, together with other intelligent species, are part of the Galactic Milieu. But not everyone adjusts to the new arrangements, and an escape valve for those who crave a simpler life, and in some case for the criminals of the future) is a one way ticket to the distant past, the Pliocene era of what is now France. But when a group of disparate time travellers make the journey they discover a very different situation from what they were expecting: the Pliocene is controlled by an alien species from a distant galaxy. Far from the freedom which they craved, the thousands of humans who have made the journey previously have been effectively enslaved.

Unfortunately, this wasn't as good as I remembered, or maybe it just hasn't aged well, but anyway it's certainly nowhere near as good as some of the other sci-fi and fantasy series that I'm working my way through at the moment. It's one of those books that gives you a little potted history of each of its characters at the beginning, rather than letting the reader discover them over time, a device that I particularly dislike. Neither was I very interested in any of the characters, there were far too many of them for a start (mostly quite stereotyped), and several of them disappeared into the sunset half way through, possibly to reappear in book two. I has great difficulty keeping them straight in my mind at all. So, while it passed the time I'm in no hurry at all to shell out any money for the second book in the series.

70. Invader C.J.Cherryh ****1/2
I read this now because: I enjoyed Foreigner the first in the series.

It'll be virtually impossible to write this without spoilers for Foreigner, so ANYONE WHO HASN'T READ THE FIRST BOOK STOP READING NOW.

The return of the spaceship Phoenix, which had left the human colonists on the world of the Atevi several hundred years previously, has thrown both Atevi and human societies into confusion. Invader begins only a few days after the end of the events depicted in Foreigner, when Bren Cameron, as the Paidhi and the only point of contact between atevi and human societies, is recalled from his hospital bed to assist the Atevi ruler Tabini to deal with this crisis. For many conservative Atevi refuse to believe that the ship's arrival is not a human plot to deprive the Atevi of the technology of space travel, and unless handled carefully the situation seems likely to escalate in a way that will destroy Tabini's government, as well as dangerously destabilising relations between the two societies. But in his efforts to perform his job to the best of his ability, Bren has no choice but to disregard the instructions of his own government, leaving him in a limbo between the two societies...

I enjoyed Foreigner a lot, but I really loved this one. Bren is a thoughtful, intelligent and conscientious man who desperately tries to do his best in a virtually impossible situation. He frequently makes mistakes (who could not in the minefield that is Atevi politics) but he acts with the best of intentions. But what I particularly like is the complexity of the political situation: this isn't a simple story of Atevi interests versus human interests. Both sides are drawn with the sort of political infighting, factions and strongly held beliefs that you see in a real political situation, and the novel is the much stronger for it.

Strongly recommended. As soon as my next Audible credit comes through I'm going to be buying the next one straight away.

71. The Matchmaker Stella Gibbons ***
I read this now because I really enjoyed her Nightingale Wood (and Cold Comfort Farm is an all time favourite).

WW2 is over, but with her own house being destroyed by bombing, Alda Lucie-Brown finds a home for herself and her three daughters in a somewhat unsuitable cottage in rural Sussex. Her husband is still serving as a major in Germany so Alda amuses herself with matchmaking for her friends and neighbours, in particular for her friend Jean who comes to stay with the family, but also for their slightly disagreeable neighbour Mr Waite as well as the local Land Girl Silvia, and the Italian prisoner of war, Fabrio.

I had great hopes for this book, having really enjoyed Stella Gibbons's Nightingale Woods but this one didn't grab my attention in the same way. Part of the problem was that I didn't find Alda a very appealing character, she's very Emma-like in some respects but she remains oblivious, and indeed completely unconcerned, by the damage she is doing by her meddling. It's never 100% clear whether the reader is supposed to be laughing at Alma for her machinations, or applauding her efforts. Her friend Jean is probably a much kinder character, but dull, with her main characteristic being a desire to be married to pretty much anyone who will have her. And in this sort of book it's probably fairly essential to like at least one of the major characters.

So this isn't really one that I can recommend hugely, but I'll certainly give something else by Stella Gibbons a try.

>84 SandDune: I guess young families handle that far better nowadays. When I was a kid, recommended dailies were unknown. We had no garden and the small shop didn't really offer fresh nice produce. Now kids even finally can get school lunches. We certainly didn't eat enough fruit and veg, and if we did, they often came from tins (fruit, peas, carrots), that was seen as time-saving and modern. I always got a sandwich and an apple or a banana for school, and sometimes after Abendbrot we shared an orange or an apple or two.
It changed a bit in the 80s when frozen food became widely available, I then often just had a pack of broccoli or Brussels sprouts (loved them) or carrots heated in broth with a slice of cheese on top. Not great, but it felt half-healthy.
I just recently thought that my parents now on normal days maybe have 1-2 portions of fruit/ veg at max. They just aren't used to more at all.

>41 SandDune: Good to hear that about the dogs' home, at least.

>46 SandDune: Gosh, I want to emigrate to Scotland; or I would do, if I still lived in Britain. I hadn't realised that they got to keep all those things that have gradually been eroded from the rest of the UK.

To chime in on the 'tea' discussion; to be honest, when people refer to a meal as 'tea' (unless it's cake or scones and tea to drink, as you said) it throws me for a second or two. Growing up, we always had dinner with our parents (as I keep saying, the boys are 5th generation expats, so we call it 'dinner'); but then, my poor mum had to come home and cook after work, so she wasn't at home to put food on the table the instant we came home from school.

Since I don't work, and I need the kids in bed early enough so that they can be up in time to catch the school bus, and often they're in bed before my husband gets home from work, I give them dinner earlier than he eats. I usually eat with them, too; it was easier to eat with my eldest when he was a toddler than to sit there feeding him but not eat, with food in front of me :0) so I've continued the habit. Nowadays, I have to arbitrate, too, so I have to be at the table, anyway.

ETA just read >68 SandDune: I'm posting as I read, since I'm so far behind, and there's a lot I feel like commenting on.

>71 SandDune: That started out sounding like a book I'd want to read, but if I started noticing things to nitpick about, I'd just start fixating on them, which would spoil the whole thing for me.

>87 SandDune: On the other hand, that's a book bullet *sigh*. Actually, two, since I haven't read Foreigner yet - so potentially three, eventually.

Interesting discussion about "tea" here. Like Laura and Katherine I also did a double take when you mentioned that you were going to make tea from the freezer!

>89 Deern: Thinking back to when I was a child I very much doubt if I ate five a day portions of fruit and vegetables, although I probably managed three or four most days: I had a half a grapefruit for breakfast pretty much every day, and our evening meal usually had a couple of portions of vegetables on the side. And although I didn't eat fresh fruit every day, we did have puddings and tarts with cooked fruit in them and tinned fruit featured fairly regularly.

There was a report recently that recommended that the target should be raised to seven a day for maximum Heath benefits. There was a big fuss in the media with a lot of people saying that this was totally unrealistic, with even five a day being not practical on a daily basis. They should come to our house is all I can say. Mr SandDune and J could eat fruit for Britain and so hit eight or nine portions quite frequently, and even I probably hit five a day most days, sometimes more.

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/04april/pages/five-a-day-should-be-upped-to-seven-a-...

>89 Deern: We certainly didn't eat enough fruit and veg, and if we did, they often came from tins (fruit, peas, carrots), that was seen as time-saving and modern. It was similar when I was growing up (late 60s through 70s), there was a real emphasis on convenience foods. I also think fresh fruit & veg was not as readily available in supermarkets, although I'm not certain about that. My mom was definitely a "convenience cook," so it might have just been whatever got dinner on the table quickly. I remember a lot of frozen vegetables, and canned fruit for dessert. My brother and I laugh now about one of our favorite childhood desserts: canned pears, with chocolate sauce. Eeew. What was my mother thinking? And yet, we loved it.

>92 SandDune: >93 lauralkeet:
I just had lunch, orecchiette (small round pasta) with fresh tomatoes, chili and fennel. And really, with this thread's food theme still in the back of my head somehow, I realized just today that my new vegetarianism that looks so restrictive for my parents and others, really is a great liberation for me. :)
I kept some German cookbooks from the 70s and love to look through them from time to time. It's amazing how often a tin/can of something is mentioned.
But one thing I'll never forget is how they start the recipe for Baked Alaska in an international cookbook: "That's one of the dishes the American housewife will cook when she wants to prove she's able to do more than to use the tin-opener." Aaaargh! So condescending, and in a book that heavily recommends tinned ingredients. I loved my tinned tangerines and pears. Getting used to the real stuff AND preferring it took me years.

The "7-a-day" was recently mentioned on a German weekly as well and the outcry was enormous. The cost! The time! It's only something for wealthy people!
I easily get there now, even to 8 or 9 portions a day, and I spend less money and less time in the kitchen per dish compared to some years ago.

We go by the 3 veg and 2 fruits version here; or rather, try to. I try to have fruits at tea-time, which is when my eldest comes home from school, but on days that the kids have after-school activities, it messes all that up.

My mum, having lived in parts of the world where you don't drink the tap water, still won't eat salads and things that are only washed. I realised only recently that she'll only eat fruits and veg that are peeled or cooked, even though for the past 35 odd years she's lived in countries where you (can) drink water straight from the tap.

Mind you, growing up, vegetables weren't very exciting. They were either canned, which meant brine or sugar syrup, or fresh ones were rather tough. I was thrilled to discover frozen peas, which were green, and tender, and small, and sweet. And more recently, asparagus! It's not anaemic yellow, or fibrous, or salty. I'm afraid I turned up my nose when my husband's mother (when we were just married), who was rather old-school, wanted to make asparagus rolls with tinned asparagus as the highlight for some do or other that she was hosting. :0)

>90 humouress: I found Foreigner was a book that it took a while to get into for two reasons. First, it's got a couple of prologues that really don't do anything more than set out the back story. Second, for a good chunk of the book the main character, Bren, is completely in the dark as to what is actually going on, and so the reader is too. Eventually, that's actually far more satisfying than everything being set out up front, but you need to persevere at first.

>91 kidzdoc: Sorry to confuse!

>93 lauralkeet: I've been thinking back about what the normal meals were as a child, also in the sixties and seventies. I think I could describe my mother as a good plain(ish) cook, and she virtually always cooked from scratch if she was cooking for the family as a whole. So it was things like pies, casseroles, lamb and pork chops, sausages, boiled gammon, hearty home-made soups, and always a roast on Sundays. I don't remember ever having any tinned vegetables, it was always fresh, although tinned fruit made a frequent appearance. Even frozen vegetables were pretty much limited to frozen peas, and I certainly remember her buying peas fresh at times as well. I think on the whole my Mum was deeply suspicious of convenience foods so they rarely made an appearance, pretty much only when my parents were going out and she was only cooking for me. Then I'd have the luxury of a Vesta ready-meal, which I absolutely adored (although now of course I can't for the life of me understand why).

>94 Deern: I wouldn't want to be a vegetarian - I just like meat too much! But we do eat a lot of meals that are heavy in vegetables and light on meat. And we tend to do quite a lot of pasta dishes in a more Italian style (light sauces and less of it). The only tins I tend to have in the house now are tinned tomatoes, pulses and tuna.

>93 lauralkeet: real emphasis on convenience foods
Hah. My mother emphasized not only convenience foods, but child labor. In the late 1960s, after a decade in traditional mom role, she returned to college to finish her degree, got a professional job, declared that “any 5 year old could do what I’ve been doing”, and put the three of of us who were 5+ on domestic duty, with step by step instructions on how to clean and cook. Cooking in this scheme, as you may imagine, consisted largely of cans, bags, boxes, and boiling water.

>95 humouress: The issue we have with J is not persuading him to eat fruit, it's stopping him from eating all the fruit before anyone else can get a look in. At the moment, this is the amount of fruit that I buy for a week that's designed for snacks: 18 apples; 8 peaches; 8 nectarines; 2 bags of oranges; two bags of satsumas. But we are very lucky if we get to the end of the week with any fruit left at all, a few satsumas if we're lucky. And I eat very little of it, maybe two or three pieces at most, so it's all being eaten by two people. J can wolf down so much fruit that we've had to start dividing it up into separate portions when it arrives so that Mr SandDune can get his fair share.

I spent most of this morning wrestling the old covers off the sofas so they could be sent to the dry cleaners, and then wrestling with the spare covers to get them on the sofas. Daisy regarded the whole exercise as a crumb finding expedition, and rather got in the way! More usefully, we found the remote for the Apple TV which we'd lost two days ago and been unable to find despite turning the sitting room upside down (it was deep down with the crumbs). I can see that the Apple remote is a beautifully designed and sleek object, but I can't help feeling that it is a design flaw for it to be so small that it constantly goes missing. Especially as the Apple TV box is completely useless without it.

I'd remembered the spare covers (which are the ones we always used until we redecorated last year) as having been quite scagged by our previous cat, but when I got them out the scagging wasn't noticeable at all and so I think I'll leave these ones in over the winter. They're a dark red, so a more wintery colour that the blue that we've had recently.

Actually, my kids are quite good with fruit - though certainly not in J's league!

My youngest has always been keen on fruit, in fact, though that seems to be changing slightly now (probably a good thing, because he's getting more carbs and meat into his diet).

My older one is getting better, too. Last week, I bought a fruit bowl for the dining table, as well as a new one for the kitchen where the fruit has always sat, and after dinner (there's that word again!) one night, he picked an orange out of it and peeled it for all of us to share. It's been harder to convince him to eat his full complement of fruit & veg, though we recently discovered that both boys like broccoli; but I've also discovered if I sit on him the first few times, things he initially resisted become everyday habits.

I think that it's changing my (inherited) mindset that's helping. Where we lived when I was growing up, it was harder to buy fresh fruit and vegetables, and what we did get tended to be dry or fibrous. And we often read about things we could only imagine (apples were one of those for a long while). One of my newest discoveries (by which I mean the last couple of years) is figs. For some reason, I always thought of them as related to prunes, so I never searched them out. Now, though ...

>101 humouress: it was harder to buy fresh fruit and vegetables, and what we did get tended to be dry or fibrous

I remember the vegetables my mother bought being reasonably good, but what has really changed since then is the variety of what is available, and the fact that it is available all year around. When I was a kid fruit was apples, oranges, satsumas, bananas, pears and summer fruits in season. Vegetables were potatoes, cabbage, cauliflower, peas, beans, carrots, parsnips and swede. Nothing exotic at all, and virtually everything was available in a single variety.

My favourite item that I buy regularly, but had never even seen as a child, is fresh mango. Until I was about thirty I'd only ever encountered mango in the form of mango chutney, whereas now you can go into a supermarket and expect them to have it, frequently to have more than one variety, at least around here.

Hi Rhian! Just checking in. I hope you had a good weekend, with just enough R & R.

Hi Rhian, I got such a chuckle out of Daisy determining that your changing the sofa covers was a crumb finding expedition. That means your sofas are well loved and well used! Hooray to having found the Apple TV remote … again. Agree it is much too small and easy to go missing.

>98 qebo: My mother emphasized not only convenience foods, but child labor By the time I was old enough to remember I was the only child at home, and my mother never worked full-time, so I wasn't asked to do very much at all. My mother would have loved to get a college degree, she was intelligent and good at aquiring knowledge, but left school age 14 in the mid-1930's. I could never work out why she didn't do something like an Open University degree when she retired, lots of people do, and I'm sure my father would have supported her in it. Probably a lack of confidence.

>103 msf59: Hi Mark! My cold is on the mend now so I was actually able to relax a bit over the weekend, rather than just sit on the sofa feeling sorry for myself.

>104 lit_chick: I have to confess that an awful lot of the crumbs were found in the area that I usually sit. It may just be a pure coincidence of course ....

Well, of course. Because Daisy snuffles up all J's crumbs before they even fall. Right?

>105 SandDune: My mother had dropped out of college to marry (ended in divorce w/o children a couple years before she met my father), and was able to finish up because my father was a professor and she could take courses for free. The one obstacle was the degree itself; the college was all male at the time, and the prospect of granting a degree to a woman was a matter of some controversy. The college went coed a few years later.

All this discussion of meals and food habits is so interesting. :)
My mother grew up on a farm and my father on a sheep ranch, but then they ended up in suburban California. My dad is a meat and potatoes guy, but we always had a garden and plenty of fruits and veg with meals. I would say I eat a fairly vegetable centric diet, but it is difficult to get my kids to eat as much fruit and veg as they should. For some reason, in spite of being raised with great variety, my younger two consider pasta, rice and bread to be the only food worth eating. Therefore, to their dismay, they are often presented with brown rice, quinoa pasta and bread "with stuff in it" at meals.

I eat salad so much that my Grandma once sent me a quote "I worry that scientists will discover that lettuce has been fattening all along." Anybody recognize that one?

seven words that the English uppers and upper-middles regard as infallible shibboleths (Pardon, Toilet, Serviette, Dinner, Settee, Lounge, Sweet)

If this is the case, I think everyone I've met in NZ is in trouble. lol Well, I don't think I've heard "setee" yet. Toilet is only used specifically in the states - "I need to buy a new toilet." Otherwise, we clean the "bathroom" or ask to use the "bathroom" or the "restroom" which may in part be due to the fact that it is all in one room, not two.

We are still trying to figure out "tea" and it is especially challenging in that it means something different to different families. It definitely pays to ask. ;0

Mr SandDune is struggling a bit this evening as he has been to see the consultant about his shoulder which has been troubling him for a few months. Apparently, he has a rotator cuff injury in his shoulder: the cortisone injection which the consultant gave him and which should help in the medium term is quite painful in the short term. He has to have physiotherapy over the next few weeks and then go back and see the consultant again. If that doesn't work it will need an operation but apparently the consultant was quite hopeful that it won't come to that.

Sorry Mr SandDune is having shoulder trouble. Maybe all that shifting furniture and wallpapering... just kidding. ;)
I hate cortisone injections. I try to avoid them at all costs. Physiotherapy should work, and see what they think about massage?

Sending good wishes for Mr SandDune!!

Last remark on the food theme: I never thought about counting the (baked) fruit in a cake as "fruit", but in the end - why not? A steamed vegetable remains a vegetable as well, so why should I make a difference with fruit? Anyway, I happily counted my slice of apple strudel yesterday afternoon as full fruit unit. :)

Daisy regarded the whole exercise as a crumb finding expedition
That's priceless! I so do miss dogs in my life!

>110 nittnut: Maybe all that shifting furniture and wallpapering. I hate to admit this, but he actually fell over Daisy! It was back in the spring when it was very wet here, and he lost his footing in some mud and tripped over her. (He did say it wasn't really her fault though). It was one of those things that didn't hurt all the time, only when he moved his arm in a particular way, and he initially thought he'd just pulled a muscle and it would get better on its own. And when he eventually did decide that he probably needed to go to the doctor he put it off and off because he was 'too busy'. So it's all taken quite a long time. Yesterday, he realised how much he 'd been restricting movement in that arm without even realising it . Hopefully, he won't need to have it operated on, but if it doesn't get better I think he will want to have it done. He had tennis elbow for years that he avoided having operated on, and in retrospect he really regrets that.

>108 nittnut: seven words that the English uppers and upper-middles regard as infallible shibboleths (Pardon, Toilet, Serviette, Dinner, Settee, Lounge, Sweet)

For the record, in those situations I say: pardon; loo; serviette (paper)/ napkin (cloth); tea (already discussed); sofa; sitting room; pudding. What that all says about me I'm not sure! (I took my sofa covers into the dry cleaners yesterday, saying 'I've got some sofa covers here' and the man repeated back to me 'So how many settee covers are there')

ask to use the "bathroom" or the "restroom" .
People might ask for the bathroom here in a private house, although must people I know would probably ask for the 'loo', but in a public place most people would ask for the 'toilets'. To ask for the bathroom in a restaurant or workplace would sound a bit odd to a British ear: we pretty much never say 'restroom'.

I know. My first day here in NZ I asked a lady in a shop where the restrooms were. She had no idea what I was talking about. I thought about it for a minute and then remembered. Toilets! She gave me an odd look and directed me to McDonalds. LOL

serviette (paper)/ napkin (cloth)
I love learning new things about language! I always thought the two were synonymous, serviette being French for napkin. We just say napkin in the US.

Oh, a rotator cuff injury is so painful. Hoping the best for Mr SandDune, that treatment will help and surgery will not be required.

>111 Deern: According to the guidelines in the UK cooked fruit can definitely be counted as can dried fruit like currants or dried apricots.

>113 nittnut: Well at least you worked it out in the end Jenn.

>114 lauralkeet: I'm not sure that there's a hard and fast rule - that's just what I say. People do say paper napkins as well, but serviettes is probably the more common term.

>115 lit_chick: I'd never heard of a rotator cuff injury before yesterday. Hopefully he will avoid the surgery.

Good luck with the shoulder. My aunt tried acupuncture and found that it helped.

>117 BLBera: I think I can guarantee he won't be doing any acupuncture as he has a serious issue with needles!

I have somehow managed to miss this entire thread. Back to top to start reading!

Big announcement from J this evening - he has acquired a new girlfriend! Apparently she is small, blonde and Danish. Actual 'going out' opportunities are restricted though, as she is a full boarder and so is only allowed out from school for an hour at a time (and then only with another boarder)! But he seems happy!

Well done, J! Is she an international student at J's school, Rhian?

>119 tiffin: Hi Tui

>121 lit_chick: Yes, she's an international student in his year at school. His school has a lot of students from other countries in the EU, as well as further afield, which gives it quite a distinct feel. Boarding students are allowed out if invited by other parents, so if this lasts more than a week or so we'll need to ask her over for Sunday lunch. I've requested a photo, as of course I've never met her!

>120 SandDune: how sweet, and how nice that he told you. Will she be good enough for J? Although I get the impression you'd not be that sort of mother (for which any future daughter in law should be eternally grateful).

>6 SandDune:: I have wishlisted this one, Rhian. It sounds good.

Further catch-up: just sick about the arson in the dog shelter. A person would have to be seriously mentally ill to do something like that. The Scottish vote has passed but I was having a lot of fun following it with friends in Scotland. My late cousin would have voted yes in a heartbeat but my friends were split in their opinions. Scots are quite socialist so for the sake of my English friends, I'm glad they are still there to keep things from swinging too far to the right. There is talk of having an English only vote for matters pertaining to England, which is giving some folks problems as those matters could swing to the right. It's all to be seen. As for the girlfriend, perhaps not such a bad idea to have one largely out of the picture at that age.

>123 Helenliz: The announcement was accompanied by a huge hug, which he seemed to think was very necessary. Actually I do think it's quite sweet! And I'm hopeful that a girlfriend might persuade him to smarten himself up a bit and get his hair cut more regularly!.

>124 tiffin: I'm very glad that the vote went the way it did. But as you say there is a lot of fall out now, about English voters getting a fair deal, which may cause problems in the future. Anyone, discussions of that have now been put on hold while everyone discusses bombing Iraq, which I can't say I am very optimistic about.

perhaps not such a bad idea to have one largely out of the picture at that age - to be honest it doesn't really worry me that much. 'Going out' with someone amongst his circle of friends seems to consist of wandering around town holding hands for an hour on Saturday afternoon, and the occasional cinema trip, so nothing too worrying.

Well, this morning we've spent the morning purchasing a new car. A new little second car (a Skoda Citigo Greentech) to replace our 13 year old second car that Mr SandDune usually drives. We don't usually buy a new second car, but as it was on a 0% finance deal and it should be much more economical to run than our current one (bottom insurance group, no car tax, servicing and breakdown cover included, and it should get around 60mpg on the sort of driving that it will need to do) we decided it was justified. We pick it up on Tuesday, which immediately saves us getting the car tax for our old car, which is due on Wednesday).

Congratulations on the car and (I suppose?) the girlfriend. Wishing Mr S. a speedy recovery.

As for the '7 words', here in Singapore - which is the crossroads of cultures; Japanese, Korean, European, British, American, Australian, Indonesian, Indian etc. etc. - I go armed with a variety of alternative words. I know, for starters, that people here have difficulty with my soft voice and 'foreign' accent. Was it your thread, Rhian, that we had the discussion of eggplants / garden egg / aubergine / brinjals (etc.) on?

Was it your thread, Rhian, that we had the discussion of eggplants / garden egg / aubergine / brinjals (etc.) on? No not here - we would say aubergine, but I think most people would also be familiar with the word eggplant. I'd get 'brinjal' as well (in the context of 'brinjal bhaji'), but never heard of a 'garden egg' in my life!

Rhian, I wish you a lovely Sunday and a speedy recovery for Mr. SD.

Oh, congrats on the new car!

Yes, congrats on your new car! 60 mpg! Impressive! I though 35-40 mpg, which is what my little hybrid gets, was good.

Hope you're having a lovely Sunday!

>131 Storeetllr: I have remembered that UK and US gallons are different sizes, which makes a difference! 60mpg in the UK is 50mpg in the US. Our current main car, which is also a Skoda, usually does at least 45mpg (38mpgUS) on my drive to work, occasionally I can get 50mpg (41mpg US) out of it, so as the new one is much smaller and has a much smaller engine the consumption should be that much better. The brochure says it should do 69mpg, but I'm not holding out much hope of that; hopefully 60mpg is realistic. It has one of those devices which switch the engine off and on automatically when you are queuing in traffic: I think that might take a little bit of getting used to as I have never driven a car that did that before!

>129 Ameise1: Thanks Barbara. At the moment he is not seeing any improvement unfortunately. Hopefully there will not be too much delay before the physiotherapy starts.

>130 scaifea: I think the new car will probably become 'my' car, as I actually prefer driving little cars.

Well Daisy completely disgraced herself at dog agility today. She'd been playing up a bit all lesson: usually she's quite focused but today she seemed more interested in charging all over the place. And then towards the end of the lesson, after doing a set of jumps, she decided that she wouldn't come back at all. She squeezed out of the paddock where the training takes place, across a large field and plonked herself down next to the car in the car park! The trainer thought that she'd probably got too hot, and so she'd decided that she'd had enough for the day (it was surprisingly hot today for end September): I certainly got too hot after chasing her back to the car.

Rhian

I very much like what you do regarding explaining why you are currently reading a book! Also, I enjoy the conversations here on your thread. Happy Sunday

But how smart of her to go directly to your car!

>132 SandDune: Rhian, I'm sorry to hear that there is not much of an improvement. I hope he isn't much in pain and you have some painkillers at home.

>134 Whisper1: Thanks Linda. It seems like I've been reading sci-fi and fantasy pretty much all summer. Now that the autumn has come it's time to read some more serious stuff: my course in twentieth century literature starts next week with some Chekhov.

>135 ronincats: She was sitting by the right car as well! (Although there were only five of them as it was only the car park for the dog training). Usually she loves agility - I really don't know what got into her today. She's only ever run off like that once before, when she wanted to find J after we'd split up, and she was very determined - running in a straight line to the car. The trainer recommended a cool coat for dogs, which I'd never even heard of but apparently they wear them for agility a lot, but I don't suppose the weather is likely to be this warm on many more occasions this year. Staffies are not really designed for the heat, they are too stocky: come to think of it, they're not very good in the cold either as their coats are so short!

>136 Ameise1: Well apparently the consultant told him it was a lot worse for women who get this particular injury as it means you are completely incapable of doing up your own bra strap. At least he doesn't have that problem!

LOL - in time like this one needs a good humour.

I love the impressive gas mileage you new car gets, Rhian! My older brother is in the market for a new car and sadly, everything that he sees online as the perfect car for his needs - and his lowering carbon footprint goals - are only available in Europe. He is looking at a Tesla as an option but that is the only North American available car that has made his short list so far.

Smart Daisy!

>139 lkernagh: Going for the Greentech version (i.e the one that switches the engine on and off) was J's idea. We'd wanted to go for the cheapest option and the Greentech version on the face of it was several hundred pounds more expensive. But when the salesman worked out the finance deals it only worked out at 24p a month more expensive as the residual value is higher. And we immediately save £20 a year as it has the lowest CO2 emissions rating and so there is no car tax (car tax in the current car is £205 pa in comparison). It is a very small car though - not a family sized car - although both mr SandDune and J at six foot seemed to fit in!

My hybrid also switches off when I'm sitting at a light, though not always. I think it has to do with how much battery is left at the time. (>139 lkernagh: I'd love to have a Tesla, but my current car isn't too bad: a 2011 Honda CRZ, which is a little sporty hatchback thing with only two seats but lots of space in back for hauling, etc. My only beef with it is the blind spot on either side that is apparently a problem with not only the CRZ but also the Prius and others.)

How exiting, a new car. Mine is only £20 tax per year, so I'm slightly envious of the no car tax. They don't offer me the option of renewing for 6 months, it's a year or nothing. The mileage on newer cars is pretty impressive these days, although I've never met anyone who actually gets the claimed mileage. Mine should give something approaching 70 mpg, but I normally get somewhere in the lows 60s (unless the husband and his heavy right foot take it out on a trip..). I had a hire car that turns itself off at traffic lights, only I didn't know this until the first time it did, when it freaked the living daylights out of me! I suspect that could take some getting used to.

>142 Helenliz: Well the manufacturers' figures are 69mpg for combined driving, so maybe I'll get low 60s as well. I've persuaded Mr SandDune to get a properly small car for our second car this time. He always wanted to get something that was big enough for all three of us (plus luggage) if we needed to take it on a longer trip, but the reality is if the three of us go anywhere together we take the other car. We had our last one four years and we never went further in it than taking J to an away match for football.

>141 Storeetllr: I'm hoping I get used to the 'switching off' business. Apparently you can disable it off if it really annoys you, but it does give better fuel consumption.

Congratulations on your new car, Rhian! That mpg rating is impressive. (Photo, please?)

I'll probably buy a new vehicle next month, too. I've had my car for 12½ years, so I'm definitely due. I want an all wheel drive SUV that I can drive in snow or ice, and I'll probably get a pre-owned Subaru Forester, which my best friends in Wisconsin bought earlier this year to get about in the harsh winters there. It's also the top rated SUV by Consumer Reports magazine. However, if I get a get a good price on a BMW X3 I might get that instead.

BTW, how are Daisy and Sweep getting along?

>144 kidzdoc: Well Mr SandDune is at the car dealers picking it up as we speak, so I haven't got a photo of the actual car, but it is one of these:

http://www.skoda.co.uk/models/citigo-5-door/default

Funnily enough, I was just thinking that Daisy and Sweep seem to be finally getting on a bit better! The critical time was always when they met at the back door when one wanted to come in and the other wanted to go out (happens far more often than you might think). Sweep has finally given up her attempts to swipe Daisy with her claws when going through the door, which is a big improvement (Daisy just keeps still and pretends she isn't there). And Daisy's fear of Sweep has reduced to a level where she is happy to go to sleep in the same room that Sweep is in, even if there aren't any humans around to protect her. Not on the same sofa though!

Well I had a parent's meeting to attend to go over the details of J's trip to Italy in two and a half weeks time. Sounds like it's going to be a good trip incorporating trips to Venice, Verona, Trieste and Udine. Meeting at the airport at 4.45am less good, but at least it only takes fifteen minutes to get there at that time of the morning! And the exchange student stays with us when J is here this time, which will be a lot easier.

I've discovered that I've read one more book than I thought, so I'm now only one short of the magic 75! The news of Dannie Abse's death this week prompted me to check out the book of his that I'd read earlier in the year, and I discovered that while I'd reviewed it I'd forgotten to list it. So book number 74 becomes The Presence by Dannie Abse, which means 75 is either going to be Taltos by Steven Brust or What I Loved by Siri Hustvedt. Probably the first of these, as What I Loved isn't really grabbing me, so it's a slow process: it's my October RL book club book, and I have to say that if I had to pick a topic for a book that would grab my attention, then the New York art scene in the latter part of the twentieth century wouldn't be what I'd choose.

>147 SandDune: Rhian, I read What I Loved 4 years ago and really disliked it. I couldn't get into art scene, didn't connect with the characters, and it all just fell flat. So ... good luck. :)

Excitingly close to 75!

So enjoying all the word discussions along with the mealtime ones! The only thing I can add is that I never just say 'napkin' - always specify cloth or paper. Growing up it always depended who was coming for dinner which we used and the same is true in our household now --although reversed! - especially when the LD has a hoard of friends over and I am feeding them - 100% paper!

Aren't dogs great? I loved the image of Daisy, saying, Ouf! I've had enough and going off to the car. Miss Po is not a huge fan of the beach and I've been experimenting by letting her decide where to go (she's on the leash) a little more once we get there. So lo and behold, she turned right instead of left as I always do at the beach I like to walk on and she was happy as a .... clam! She had a good time and as no one was about I let her off the lead and she led the whole way. I was fascinated, what was 'better' about this direction? That she chose it? Who knows?

The part of the beach walk she likes best is along the inner harbor, where you walk on hard sand that gets inundated twice a day at high tide and there's the salt marsh right there. Lots of things to sniff then. But she is an inland woodsy dog, no question about it.

>148 lauralkeet: Now nearly half way through What I Loved and I can't say that I'm getting anything more out of it.

>149 sibylline: Daisy absolutely loves the beach. She loves the space to run around, she loves digging in the sand and she loves playing in the waves (particularly with J). When dogs are allowed on British beaches (some have dog bans over the summer) there aren't usually any restrictions on keeping them on the lead, so she is able to run around to her heart's content: in fact at certain times of year the beach is mainly populated by people walking their dogs.

I've been teaching Daisy to walk without pulling on the lead this week. We usually use a lead that goes around her nose, so she doesn't pull on that, but for agility she needs a normal lead that can be taken off quickly, so she needs to learn not to pull on that as well. And staffies are very strong for their size, so when she pulls, she really pulls. But since starting in Monday, I'm seeing a real improvement.

I've finished Book Number 75 (and 76)! Hurray!

Number 75 was What I Loved which I finished last night as I couldn't sleep. I really didn't enjoy it very much at all: boring people, boring subject, not believable. Won't be rushing out to buy more Siri Husvedt in a hurry if this one is typical. But on the other hand number 76 Taltos was one I really liked: I'm enjoying this series more and more the further I get through it.

Congratulations on surpassing the 75 mark, Rhian!

Congrats!

Way to go, Rhian!

>153 DeltaQueen50: >154 drneutron: Hi Judy, Jim. Well I'm a couple of weeks later meeting the target than last year, but should be in line for a hundred or so by the end of the year.

Congratulations, Rhian!

75. What I Loved Siri Husvedt **
I read this now because: it's the October book choice for my RL book club.

As an old man, partially blind, the retired art historian Leo Hertzberg looks back upon his marriage to Erica, his experience of fatherhood and above all his long friendship with artist Bill Weschler, Bill's first wife Lucille and second wife Violet, and his son Mark. From the early days of Bill's career (when Leo bought the first of his paintings) to the time when Bill is the darling of the art world (at least in Europe if not quite in New York) the families are close. The Weschlers even move in to the apartment above the Hertzberg's, and the closeness is further emphasized when their two baby boys are born within a few weeks of each other.

Much of the first part of the book chronicles Leo and Bill's growing friendship, the breakdown of Bill's first marriage to Lucille and subsequent marriage to Violet and detailed descriptions of Bill's art and Violet's study of the perception of hysteria in nineteenth century women. But at the start of Part Two a family tragedy occurs which throws the comfortable life of the couples into disarray, and which influences their lives for the remainder of the book.

I have to say that I didn't really enjoy this book at all. I didn't find the general depiction of the New York art world at all appealing, and the specific depictions of Bill's art were tedious and far too lengthy. And I didn't really care about or believe in any of the characters. Bill in particular is supposed to be a charismatic character ('Bill had glamour - that mysterious quality of attraction that seduces strangers' and when Leo was introduced to him he 'felt like a dwarf who had just been introduced to a giant'), but I certainly didn't think that this magnetism was conveyed to the reader. As the book develops it seems to develop more of the characteristics of a psychological thriller, raising certain expectations about how the rest of the book will develop, but then seems to lose these again so the expectations are dashed.

I would probably not have finished this book if it hadn't been my next RL book club choice. To be honest I'd doubt if I'd have got beyond page 10 or so.

>158 SandDune: pretty much exactly how I felt about it. And I've never been the least bit tempted to read more of her work.

ETA: Do you plan to post your review on the book page? Because I would definitely give it a thumb!

Congratulations on 75, Rhian! Woot!

76. Taltos Steven Brust ****1/2
I read this now because: I'm working my way through this series pretty quickly

The fourth book in Steven Brust's Jhereg series continues the saga of Vlad Taltos, the human assassin (as well as an up and coming crime boss) in the alien world of the Dragaeran empire. I say continues, but in fact the main events of Taltos take place earlier than those of the first three books, and tell the story of Vlad's first meeting with Marolan, Sethra and Aliera - key characters of the first two books - and the journey which Marolan and Vlad make to Deathgate Falls and the Paths of the Dead.

What I particularly like about this series (apart from the character of Vlad himself of course, and his familiar Loiosh) is the way the books are structured. Book one Jhereg takes place when Vlad is established as a boss and married to Cawti book two tells the story of how he met Cawti in the first place, book three takes place a couple of months after book one, and book four is earliest of all. No chronological order here! But as well as the timeframe of the main events, each book has at least one (or two) other storylines running through it with a different timeline adding complexity and interest. And each book drops little snippets of information about the events of the past that are picked up in later books, or hints of events to come in the future. It all adds up to the impression that the series of books were carefully planned out as a whole before the first one was written: whether that's true or not I don't know, but they certainly gives that impression. And so the reader's reaction to any set of events is frequently modified because they know how that character's relationship with Vlad will develop later, while assumptions from earlier books are challenged when the reader discovers more of a character's history

All in all I'm finding these books a great read and I'll be moving on quickly to the next one in the series.

>159 lauralkeet: Laura, I've done that.

>155 jnwelch: >157 humouress: >160 lit_chick: Thanks Jo, Nina, Nancy.

And I've thumbed it! Thanks Rhian.

Thumbed your Siri Husvedt review. Must read that Brust series. And congrats about reaching 75! Loved the image of Daisy playing like a free soul on the beach.

Congratulations on reaching and passing the 75 page mark!

So glad you are enjoying the Vlad books. You are approaching a major change, but all the things you like about them do continue. Hawk, book 14 in the series, is coming out tomorrow.

First of all congratulations on reaching 75! What a pity it was with a book you disliked, but at least #76 sounds much better.

I love the Dailsy story. By placing herself next to your car she clearly showed that while she had enough of the training she wasn't miffed with you for taking her there, on the contrary.

Keeping sending good wishes to Mr S and hoping he'll soon be painfree again.

J's trip sounds wonderful. Never been to Udine and to trieste only for a trade show, but I've seen some great pics of Udine and hope to get there one day. Venice and Verona are fantastic destinations anyway, also for school groups, there's just so much to do apart from museums.

Yay for the Skoda! My next car will definitely be smaller and eco-friendlier as well.

>164 tiffin: >165 lkernagh: Hi Tui Lori

>166 ronincats: You are approaching a major change - well that sounds intriguing! I keep thinking that these books aren't ones that I should enjoy, after all the main character does go around killing people for a living, and that's really not my comfort zone at all: I usually avoid violence like the plague in a book. (I had to stop reading the Sandman books because I found them too violent). But the character of Vlad is just great, I love the picture of the Dragaeran empire that Brust has constructed, and I love the way that information is drip fed very slowly. You're given enough information to make sense of the plot, but then Vlad will make some throw away comment that makes you realise that there's something about the way his world works that you don't understand. And that may not be explained until several books later, but the way the books are panning out at the moment I'm hopeful that the things that I really want to know will be revealed at some stage. In my view, these are books that are perfect for rereading, as they are less about the plot (frequently the reader knows in general terms what the outcome will be, because of the strange chronology), it's more about getting there.

I've realised that one of the things that made me less than enthusiastic of The Many-Coloured Land than I was expecting, was the fact that there was just too much information provided. Too much back story in the first part of the book giving a potted history of the time-travellers, and then too many conversations later on where things are conveniently explained to them. Working it out for yourself is just so much more fun!

>167 Deern: The actual place that J is going to is called Maniago, but I believe it's quite small. He's certainly looking forward to it: he adores Italian food and he's hoping to get a family who can cook properly! We've been practicing useful words at home over the last week or so, and I think his Italian is good enough to get by, even though he does have a tendency to move his verbs to the end of the sentences at times (more time spent learning German).

I've been to Venice, but not Verona or Trieste. Both are in my list of places to visit at some stage.

There does seem to have been a huge improvement in efficiency in cars over the last few years. I haven't driven the new car yet, but Mr SandDune is getting better mileage figures driving around town than we would have got from our old one on an open road, so I'm expecting to get much better mileage when I take it to work next week. It's a relatively basic model, as regards optional extras, but as far as I am concerned the one essential is Air Conditioning and it's got that. And it does come with an integrated SatNav which is handy.

Rhian, congrats on reaching 75. I wish you a fabulous weekend.

Hooray for 75! Sorry it wasn't a great read, but it sounds like 76 was more satisfying.

Hi Rhian - Congrats on reaching 75! I have loved the Hustvedt books I've read, but will think twice about What I Loved. Hmm.

Have a lovely weekend.

>161 SandDune: Hmmm .... wondering if I should rejoin the Jhereg read - provided I can find the books.

>170 Ameise1: >171 nittnut: Hi Barbara, Jenn

>172 BLBera: Beth I think maybe that Hustvedt isn't the right author for me, rather than What I Loved being a particularly poor book by her. I've looked at the other books that she's written and none of them appeal. Just not my sort of thing I think.

>173 humouress: The Jhereg books aren't very available here either. They do have the omnibus editions on Amazon, but I've never seen any in the shops and they're not available in kindle versions. I've been listening to them on Audible who seem to have them all, and that's working well, as the narrator is very good.

Congratulations on hitting the 75 books mark, Rhian! I'm sorry that #75 wasn't a good book, though.

This year's Booker Prize longlist is rubbish.

Good for you - passing 75 so easily! Congrats on that AND the new car! Did you say what color it is?

Well done on reaching 75.

>175 kidzdoc: Actually, the ones that I'm particularly interested in reading didn't make the shortlist: (The History of Rain, The Bone Clocks and The Wake). The only one I'm excited about reading in the shortlist is How to be Both as I enjoyed the last Ali Smith I read. I'll be going to a talk by this year's chair of judges A.C. Grayling at J's school in a few weeks time, although it's on the subject of education rather than literature so there probably won't be opportunity for any Booke related discussions!

>158 SandDune: I would probably not have finished this book if it hadn't been my next RL book club choice. To be honest I'd doubt if I'd have got beyond page 10 or so.

I gather the book club discussion hasn’t happened yet?

Congrats on 75!

Congratulations on completing the 75 challenge goal! And, you surpassed it as well! Good for you.

>178 SandDune: History of the Rain was very good, and it deserved to be on the longlist, along with The Narrow Road to the Deep North. I haven't read The Bone Clocks or The Wake yet, but I'll get to them later this year. My least favorite book of the year was chosen for the shortlist, Joshua Ferris's To Rise Again at a Decent Hour, and as you know I disliked one other shortlisted book, We Are All Completely Beside Ourselves by Karen Joy Fowler.

Although I have yet to read many of them there seem to be plenty of books from the Commonwealth and the US that would have been better choices for the longlist; Arctic Summer by Damon Galgut, The Shock of the Fall by Nathan Filer, A Girl Is a Half-Formed Thing by Eimear McBride, The Children Act by Ian McEwan, A God in Every Stone by Kamila Shamsie, The Paying Guests by Sarah Waters, and All Our Names by Dinaw Mengestu come to mind immediately.

I'll be very interested to hear if A.C. Grayling talks about the Booker Prize when you attend his talk.

Rhian, congratulations on reaching 75!

>176 michigantrumpet: The car is not a particularly easy colour to describe: I'd maybe call it pale biscuit! We'd have gone for the red option but there was a twelve week wait for that one.

>179 qebo: The meeting is next Tuesday. Mr SandDune didn't like it either (at least he got half way through, decided he couldn't be bothered to read any more and got me to tell him how it ended).

The thing I like about my book club is that it makes me read books that I would never choose myself, and sometimes they're just marvellous. Sometimes though, we have the books that I'd never choose myself and when I read them I realise there is a very good reason for that! What I loved definite falls into the latter category.

Hooray for 75!

I have the Jhereg series lining up - can't wait to read it - so many here love it.

Right, then ~ yet another series to start! Thanks, Rhian. Really.

Seriously, the Brust series sounds really good. And Roni likes it too! One quick question: Should I read them in published or chron order?

>180 Whisper1: >182 susanj67: Hi Linda, Susan

>181 kidzdoc: I like your list Darryl. Arctic Summer, The Shock of the Fall, A Girl is a Half-Formed Thing, The Children Act and The Paying Guests were all already on my TBR list, and while I hadn't heard of the other two they both appeal. I'm not sure what the format is going to be for A.C. Grayling, but it's probably not hoping to be a huge event so there may be opportunity to ask questions.

>184 sibylline: >185 Storeetllr: Well as you can see the Jhereg books are highly recommended. Certainly with the four I've read so far I think publication order is best: the chronology is complicated and you're probably getting the right pieces of information in the right order if you stick with the year of publication. For instance Jhereg is first in publication order but third in chronological order of the ones I've read so far, if you're looking at the main story that is. But Jhereg also provides a lot of details in flashback dealing with Vlad's childhood, his acquisition of Loiosh as a familiar, and his first steps in the Jhereg organisation, which are quite crucial to understanding what's going on. So although the main story of Taltos takes place much earlier then Jhereg, the flashbacks to Vlad's earlier life follow on from those in the earlier book, and would make more sense if you read them second. Clear as mud I hope?

Congrats on 75!

I agree completely with Rhian--this is one series where publication order is paramount!

Rhian, you do realize that there are 5 more pre-Vlad books, two by Paarfi that deal with how Adron's
Disaster came to be, and three that are Morollan's history? Paarfi writes like Alexander Dumas, taking 3 pages to explain how succinctly he is telling his story, and is lots of fun.

>187 drneutron: Thanks Jim!

>188 ronincats: you do realize that there are 5 more pre-Vlad books, two by Paarfi that deal with how Adron's Disaster came to be, and three that are Morollan's history? I had heard of these, as I've been gradually working my way through What Makes this Book so Good by Jo Walton and she spends quite a bit of time discussing this series. But I was thinking of my reading so far up above.

Rhian, did you see the news today that Labour MPs want Alan Johnson to challenge Ed Miliband for the leadership? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11141992/Labour-MPs-urge-Al... All I can say is, only if he's finished his memoirs! I can't wait for Please, Mr Postman.

>190 susanj67: I hadn't seen that. Maybe that would work - I don't find Ed Miliband very impressive at all, and neither does anyone else from what I can tell. And there seems to be far too many identikit party leaders around at the moment who have all come from a relatively similar prosperous background. Someone who had actually done an ordinary job at some stage in his life might appeal to the electorate rather more. (Reminds me that I must get around to Please, Mr Postman.)

I'm with you on the identikit leaders being uninspiring. They're also hardly gifted with the touch of the common man. I read the obits column every day and those I think the most admirable (whether I share their politics or not) are those that had a proper job and did something with their lives before entering Parliament. Otherwise they seem to move from school to university to politics, all of which are (to a certain extent) insulated; they never actually have to live outside in the real world with the rest of us.

>192 Helenliz: That's exactly what I think Helen, they are too insulated from real life. I don't have any issues with any one politician coming from a particular background, the problem at the moment seems to be that we have too many politicians coming from a very similar background, which must tend to narrow their outlook. As you say, politicians in the past went into politics after doing very different sorts of jobs, and so must have brought a much wider range of experience to it.

J has just returned from football practice clutching his wrist. Hopefully just a sprain, but if it hasn't improved by tomorrow morning I will have to take him to get it x-rayed. It doesn't seem bad enough to rush him off anywhere this late in the evening (local hospital only has a minor injuries clinic open 8.30-5.00, so this time of night I'd have to take him to A&E which is further away) but we'll have to see tomorrow.

Hope the wrist is ok!

Thank you for the info about Brust and the Jhereg series. I will follow advice to the letter!

I hope J's wrist is o.k. by now.

Rhian, I know you know the old icepack trick. It explains why, to this day, my freezer is full of various sizes of ice packs designed to do everything from head to toe. I do hope J is ok. Sprains often hurt worse than breaks.

>194 sibylline: >195 Ameise1: >196 tiffin: Bad news unfortunately. He's broken both radius and ulna in his lower arm. Arm is now in a cast (a split one as he's flying to Italy in ten days time). I was very impressed with the service at the minor injuries unit though: arrived at 9am, booked in, saw nurse-practioner, sent for x-rays, x-rays assessed, second opinion obtained from A&E as to whether it needed manipulating (it didn't), cast put on and back in the car park by 9.55am. Now I just feel guilty for not taking him last night.

>197 SandDune: We did that with Andrew when he was about nine. He came home from school having fallen over and hurt his arm and we assured him it would be fine in the morning. It wasn't and we spent the morning at the local hospital having him x-rayed and then plastered, and wishing we'd taken him the day before. Hope J heals as fast as possible.

aw, the poor kid. So sorry, Rhian (and J, of course). I hope it heals cleanly and swiftly. Maybe a day off school to just go to ground and read?

Oh Rhian, sorry to hear that J has broken both bones but on the other hand the good news are that it didn't need manipulating. I hope it's healing quickly. Wishing him 'get well soon' and he is a lucky boy to go to Italy.

>197 SandDune: Hello Rhian, just stopping by to see what you have been reading still trying to get round on the threads.
However, I am very sorry to hear that J broke his lower arm and I am also impressed by the speed you have been dealt with "woah". I can understand that you do feel guilty, but sometimes it is just not so apparent that something is seriously wrong. I had this several times with Alex over the years and (unfortunately) also always feel guilty. Maybe it's just us being mothers :)

I am glad to see that you enjoy the Vlad Taltos series. I didn't complete it last year, but maybe this year. I read The Shock of the Fall by Nathan Filer and agree with Darryl that it is a fantastic book. Although, very British as it deals with the British Mental Health service. Being a nurse myself and having some experience with mental health patients on different levels, and having friends with psychatric problems, I felt that it caught quite well, the emotions and the life these patients are experiencing. Sometimes, I even had to laugh as some of the parts reminded me so much on what one of my friends tends to tell me.

>198 CDVicarage: We had the same thing when J was tiny. He fell over (but they fall over all the time at age 2) and he'd clearly hurt his wrist but was still using it, so we didn't think it was more than a sprain. The GP agreed that it was almost certainly a sprain but sent him to A&E to get it x-rayed just in case, they said exactly the same thing in the hospital, but when he had the x-ray done he had a displaced fracture of both bones. He had to have a general anaesthetic to allow it to be set properly!

>199 tiffin: I was a cruel mother and took him straight to school! Actually he didn't protest. Among 14 year old boys there seems to be a bit of street cred to be gained by having broken your arm while playing sport, so he was quite keen to show off his cast and get it written on as quickly as possible!

>200 Ameise1: Thanks Barbara. I don't think he's suffering too much at the moment!

>201 drachenbraut23: Hi Bianca - so nice to see you around the threads again. It was incredibly quick, to be honest, so I'm glad we didn't go to A&E the night before. It would have probably taken a lot longer, as we got put behind all the people with more serious problems.

The Shock of the Fall is definitely on my wish list. I've heard a lot of good things about it.

>197 SandDune:, >202 SandDune: Oh no! But glad it gives J street cred.

Oh, boy. Broken bones are one of my recurring day-mares for Charlie. Thinking of you an J.

Sorry to hear about J's arm, right before his trip to Italy. I hope the cast is not too cumbersome. How's the pain level?

>204 qebo: Well - he was the centre of attention yesterday at school which he obviously enjoyed!

>205 scaifea: To be honest on the overall scheme of things, broken bones (as long as it's nothing major) aren't the thing I worry about. They happen, you need to deal with it, and it's a nuisance but there's not too much uncertainty involved. What stresses me is when they don't know what the problem is. J had a couple of bouts of a very non-specific illness which ended with him in hospital for a week and the not knowing what the matter was nearly killed me! Or another time when we sitting in A&E with the doctors saying 'well, we can operate tonight if you want us to, or you can go home and it might well get better on its own'. I don't want a choice in those circumstances, I want an old fashioned paternalistic doctor who tells me what decision I ought to make!

>206 lit_chick: He doesn't seem to be in too much pain at all - I gave him a couple of painkillers yesterday but he hasn't asked for any today. I've been checking today that there won't be any problems with his flight: they are flying with Ryanair which is an airline not known for the high levels of its customer service, and the hospital had advised that we needed to make sure in advance that they were fully informed about the fact that he would be wearing a cast. But it looks like I won't need to get a doctor's certificate for him to prove he is fit to fly.

>207 SandDune: Oh, that's an excellent point. And now I have something else to worry about. Ha! Honestly, though, I think I worry about broken bones because I've never had one myself (knock on wood), so I imagine, likely, that they're much worse than they really are.

I'm sorry to hear about J's forearm fracture, Rhian, but I'm glad that he'll still be able to go on his trip.

Having a cast is definitely a rite of passage among teenage boys!

>208 scaifea: >209 kidzdoc: it definitely does seem a rite of passage! It was completely written on by the end of its first day. It doesn't seem to be bothering him much at all at the moment to be honest.

So sorry to hear J has broken his arm. If it's any consolation, I'd have most likely done the same about not taking one of my boys in, if they claimed to be hurt. Especially my eldest - he's a bit of a diva. In fact, he spent Friday off school, claiming a sore throat. While that was true, it may also have had something to do with the state of his homework (we went to watch the Brazil - Japan friendly on Tuesday, too). But this weekend, I've been hearing his croupy cough, and felt a bit bad at judging him harshly.

Hope the arm heals well and quickly, and the flight isn't too uncomfortable.