Navajo Mystery(Joe Leaphorn and Jim Chee)/Walt Longmire Project

Welcome to the Yearlong Navajo Mystery(Joe Leaphorn and Jim Chee)/Walt Longmire Project!

Last year we (luvamystery65, Donna828, Crazymamie and Berly) read Spenser by Robert B. Parker but we got a little burned out by him midway. Fortunately, he somewhat redeemed himself before the year ended. This year we decided to split two series in order to avoid burnout. I hope it works!

Join us as you like. Post your reviews and comments. If you've read the books and would like to follow along please comment. The more the merrier.

January - The Blessing Way
February - The Cold Dish
March - Dance Hall of the Dead
April - Death Without Company
May - Listening Woman
June - Kindness Goes Unpunished
July - People of Darkness
August - Another Man's Moccasins
September - The Dark Wind
October - The Dark Horse
November - The Ghostway
December - Junkyard Dogs

Basically chime in whenever you would like about your thoughts, feelings, rants or post questions if something leaves you baffled.

It is most helpful if you state where you are in the book, Chapter 7 etc..., if discussing a particular point.

Since this is a multiple book group read then after we start the second book please post the book you are referring to. Some of us read the books late and then come back and post.

Always use the Spoiler function when talking about the plot or something a character did if you are way ahead of everyone else. Just assume you are. There will be a lot of beige blank spots as people get going.

When you have finished the book then post a link to your review or if your review is spoiler free then post it to the thread.

That's about it. Feel free to comment as much as you want. Rants about the books, the characters and the author are welcome!

January we begin with The Blessing Way


Book Description from the publisher: Homicide is always an abomination, but there is something exceptionally disturbing about the victim discovered in a high lonely place, a corpse with a mouth full of sand, abandoned at a crime scene seemingly devoid of tracks or useful clues. Though it goes against his better judgment, Navajo Tribal Police Lieutenant Joe Leaphorn cannot help but suspect the hand of a supernatural killer. There is palpable evil in the air, and Leaphorn's pursuit of a Wolf-Witch is leading him where even the bravest men fear, on a chilling trail that winds perilously between mysticism and murder.

well, darn. I have The Blessing Way in the TBR but have way too many commitments for January.

I've read the first three Walt Lngmire books. I may join you for the next three later this year.

Looking forward to this. Thanks so much for setting up the thread, Roberta!

I read The Blessing Way in 2013, and am in the middle of my first Walt Longmire, which I'm loving! I think I'll join you!

I hope we get lots of people interested in our new Project. By the way, I like that word better than Challenge, Roberta. Good job setting us up. I have read The Blessing Way many years ago but I see it is not in my LT library. Good! An excuse for a reread. ;-)

I've got this starred. I'll try and join in on several of the reads, esp the Hillerman. I also have the first Longmire book in Mount TBR. I failed by attempting too many challenges/group reads in 2014 - I agree that Project is a good term for this.

>3 majkia: See if you can read it by March and catch up with us then for book 2. That is the nice thing about rotating the two series.

>4 cbl_tn: Sounds great! I've read the first two Longmire. I don't know if I'll reread or just jump in later. No rules. No worries. Welcome!

>5 Crazymamie: Crazymamie and >7 Donna828: Donna have checked in! Our original gang. Now to find Kim...

>6 countrylife: Welcome! Glad to have another one on the journey.

>8 RBeffa: I completed way too many challenges this year. For 2015 I am all about not committing myself to anything. This is a personal project that initially started with reading Spenser novels. I didn't want to gobble them up one after another as I tend to do. So the project actually let me slow things down and savor the stories.

I'm first in the hold line for The Blessing Way, so I expect to have it well before the end of January. I'm looking forward to starting a brand-new series, and especially reading it with you all!

Although ... can I still play along if I don't have a 75er thread in 2015? I'll be quiet, I promise.

>10 rosalita: I don't have a 75 thread in 2015 either. I joined the group but won't start a thread until later in the year. (Maybe?) I have my reading documented over in the 2015 Challenge because I started my thread there in October but I won't begin my challenge until January.

Please don't be so quiet! At least not in regards to your thoughts on the books. Your commentary during Spenser was invaluable.

>11 luvamystery65: Thanks, Ro! I'm actually not planning to have a thread at all in 2015; that's why I was wondering if I can still play. I'm looking forward to discovering these new-to-me books with your help.

>12 rosalita: Why shouldn't you play? You can join the group and not make a thread. You are still a 75er.

I've got The Blessing Way on hold at the library. Just need to get it picked up in the next couple of days. I'm looking forward to our "project."

>14 Morphidae: Morphy I am thrilled you will be joining us. My book is requested from the library. Not even in transition yet. I'm a little worried until it gets to me as I have had 2 books lost in the black hole of shipping before.

In for the Longmire books - I'm up to date on my Leaphorn/Chee.

I'm in for the Hillerman books, and found my copy of The Blessing Way.

I found my copy of The Blessing Way also. I read several of these early ones so long ago that I can no longer recall story details. This will be fun to revisit and read some new ones as well.

I am here! And totally in. : ) Roberta, thanks for setting up our project. I thoroughly enjoyed the Spenser reads last year and love that this year is split between two authors. Can't wait! I am really going to try to use my library more this year (and spend less), but I want to have at least one representative book on my shelves. Off to investigate...

>16 drneutron: Welcome aboard Jim!

>17 AuntieClio: Glad to have you Stephanie.

>18 RBeffa: I'm glad you found your copy of The Blessing Way Ron.

>19 Berly: Kim is here! Now the Spenser group is all here. What a nice group we have this year.

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For those that have already read the books, please know that your input is invaluable. Several people that had read the Spenser books chimed in and really supported us during that project. It made it very exciting to look forward to some books and helped not give up during the ones that disappointed.

Hi! I am totally in on the Hillerman books. Have almost all of his books but have not read them in several years, good excuse to revisit them with different eyes and experiences. I have not read anything by Longmire and look forward to trying out his books.

>21 ulliowl: It's great to have you on board! I've been wanting to read the Hillerman books. Now I will with company. :-)

I've read all the Hillerman novels (eons ago, admittedly) and a few of the Longmires but I plan to lurk here. :-)

I have read all of the Hillermans in my public library- long ago-before LT. Have not read any Longmire. Will have to go looking. I'll watch this and may get into the Project. I also like the term project better than challenge for this.

I'm waiting for my first book. I love a good mystery and am looking forward to being introduced to a couple of new to me authors. The Blessing Way is in transit to my local Library Branch

I have decided to participate in some challenges this year for the first time. I like Tony Hillerman and have never read Craig Johnson, but as a true westerner from southern Colorado these should be fun reads for me so count me in. I will pick up The Blessing Way tomorrow at the library and put The Cold Dish on audio.

I'm not sure if I need a thread to participate in the projects within the75 books challenge for 2015.

You don't need a thread to participate - just jump in and join us!

Blessing Way is only $1.99 on Kindle...

>23 EBT1002: Ellen I would love for you to lurk but I would love it even more if you chimed in on occasion.

>24 Helenoel: You are welcome to join for the reads, the comments or the company.

>25 ccookie: My library sent me an email that it was ready for pickup!

>26 dallenbaugh: Welcome! George Guidall narrates the Longmire series. He is phenomenal.

>27 drneutron: Indeed. Thank you Jim!

>28 Berly: Kim!

I just found The blessing Way at the library -
I know I've read it, but long ago- before LT, so no record. So I'm for this month.

>29 luvamystery65: Yes, I've listened to Guidell narrate on other audios. He is first rate.

I am about to start reading The Blessing Way. Since this is my first group read, how does this work?

>31 dallenbaugh: He's kind of the King. ;-)

>32 AuntieClio: Stephanie I didn't realize this is your first group read! Whoop!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Basically chime in whenever you would like about your thoughts, feelings, rants or post questions if something leaves you baffled.

It is most helpful if you state where you are in the book, Chapter 7 etc..., if discussing a particular point.

Since this is a multiple book group read then after we start the second book please post the book you are referring to. Some of us read the books late and then come back and post.

Always use the Spoiler function when talking about the plot or something a character did if you are way ahead of everyone else. Just assume you are. There will be a lot of beige blank spots as people get going.

When you have finished the book then post a link to your review or if your review is spoiler free then post it to the thread.

That's about it. Feel free to comment as much as you want. Rants about the books, the characters and the author are welcome!

I hope this helps.

Spoiler function is done how?

>34 dallenbaugh: You can go to this Wiki link to find out how to do things to fancy up your posts. They don't have the spoiler function listed but just substitute the word spoiler for the word strike in the underline example.

http://www.librarything.com/wiki/index.php/Basic_HTML_/_How_to_do_Fancy_Things_i....

Feel free to test it out here. It looks exactly like this. Good luck!

I think I've got it. Thanks.

I read this book Blessing Way years ago but will be going to the library tomorrow and will get it and start. I spent last year reading tons of YA dystopian novels so returning to westerns will be a real treat.

I think I'll be popping in and out of this thread during the year. I've read all the Longmire books so far -- he's a real favorite of mine -- and I'm interested in reading Hillerman.

BTW, I didn't notice if anyone mentioned this, but the Longmire audio books narrated by George Guidall are excellent, IMO. I get them on audio whenever I can. It's like listening to an old friend recount his adventures.

Started last night and am about 40 pages in. Ho hum so far but I know I have to give it a bit more time before I decide for sure!

>36 dallenbaugh: Glad you got it working.

>37 benitastrnad: I'm excited you are going to join us for the Hillerman books as well as the Longmire ones. You are half responsible for the Project this year. You hit me with the book bullet for the Hillerman series over on Mark's thread when we were discussing Tricked by Kevin Hearne. You mentioned this series and after a little research I knew I wanted to read these books. Welcome!

>38 tymfos: Glad you are in for the Hillerman and I hope you comment on the Longmire books. Yes, we were discussing King George in >29 luvamystery65: >31 dallenbaugh: & >33 luvamystery65:

>39 ccookie: I've been Googling some of the locations and mythology mentioned in the beginning of the book. It's taken time away from reading but I think I'm getting it and I hope to settle into the world of Joe Leaphorn.

I'm enjoying The Blessing Way. I thought I'd read all of Hillerman long ago, but may have missed this one before. It is interesting to see how Hillerman develops Leaphorn's character by showing us little details slowly. I think he improves as a writer through the series.

There was also a PBS Masterpiece Mystery or PBS Mystery series based on the Joe Leaphorn/Jimmy Chee novels. This series was done in the early 1990's. It is available on Netflex and might provide a different kind of viewpoint on these novels for some of us. If I had a DVD player I would be doing this as I remember them as being quite good.

I like the novels of Tony HIllerman. At their heart they are westerns and perhaps that is why I liked them. I agree with #41 in that I think Hillerman improves his writing as he writes more books. That is probably true of many of the great writers and might be why they are great writers. (Jane Austen - Wilke Collins, etc.) However, that doesn't mean that I think that Hillerman is in the same category as Austen, etc. It simply means that he does improve as time goes on and the depth found in his novels reflects that.

I'm also enjoying The Blessing Way especially since I have spent many days hiking and driving through the type of slick rock country Hillerman describes in the 1st chapter.

After reading the 2nd and 3rd chapters Hillerman has hooked me on the combination of science and superstition that always seems to be such an important element in his stories. Although we might find out who did what some aspects of his mysteries are never quite solved.

Finished The Blessing Way during the New Years readathon. Enjoyed my sojourn in the southwest.

I'm up to chapter 11 now, and it feels like coming home. I lived in New Mexico when I was a teenager, and although Albuquerque is far from Navajo country, I am reminded of how much I miss it.

This is a re-read for me and it's holding up very well. The way Hillerman slowly builds the details, the theme of science vs. mysticism/mythology ... it's all so good.

Reading this immediately after Margaret Coel, whose mysteries are set in Arapaho country, made me realize who the true master of the genre is, and is making me consider just not reading the rest of her work anymore.

I nibbled on a little of The Blessing Way before bed last night. I'm unsure if I have read this particular one before. I'm thinking no. My wife has read every Hillerman but I've only read half a dozen or so. I think I missed this one. I will say this - reading this is like comfort food.

Introducing Joe Leaphorn and his understanding of both the mystical beliefs of his people and the supreme logic it takes to solve a crime.

This re-read felt like going home in so many ways. It made me hungry to return to New Mexico.

It's a good murder mystery set in the vast and complicated landscape of Navajo land. Interesting questions occupy Lt. Leaphorn's mind like who would steal a hat but leave the very expensive concho hatband behind and, why is that Navajo man's hair so short?

The only true nit I have with this cast of characters is Ellen Leon. So clunky, too obvious a plot device for my taste.

>47 AuntieClio: Why do you think of Ellen as a plot device? or rather, as one to single out of most things that occur in the story. I thought she adds a slight bit of mystery to the start of the story. I'm far from done, but getting there, so maybe something stupid comes along.

apropos of nothing, does anyone besides me remember an early X-files episode "The Blessing Way"?

>48 RBeffa: I single her out because she's so poorly written, in comparison to the rest of the characters, and it becomes quite obvious that without her, the whole thing would fall apart. There's no reason for her other than to get from one plot point to another. Her presence is just so clunky.

On Chapter 11....just following along with the comments. The beginning was a little rough but I a enjoying the story more and more as it goes.

Yes, 50Berly I agree the beginning was rough I think because Hillerman tried to include so much information on the "Navajo Way". The information was interesting but it did not lead to a very smooth story. The second half was much better in terms of tension and narrative drive.

I liked when Leaphorn is asked whether he believes in witches he remarks "I have learned to believe in evil."

I finished the book last night and look forward to reading more Hillerman.

>49 AuntieClio: my apologies Auntie. At the time of my post I had not read far enough. There are some problems with the book and characters but none as bad as the way Ellen is presented. I'll finish the novel up shortly - not many pages left to go. I was a little annoyed with some of the storytelling. Jumping ahead in scenes and then backfilling. It was done a number of times and I'm not sure why, other than throwing the reader off balance. I kept thinking I had accidently skipped a page.

For a first novel this isn't bad.

>52 RBeffa: No need to apologize :-)

#51
I also noticed that particular quote as I was reading the book over lunch today. So far I have not found the information on the Navajo Way distracting but rather find it enlightening. I wonder how an anthropologist of today would view this information and how the author worked it into the story.

It is surprising to learn that this book was published back in 1970. I knew it had to old when early in the book the talk about the missing rocket happened. To think that they had to install a radar station to track the rockets launched seems funny now, as it would be done from satellite tracking systems. Overall, as somebody mentioned, up-thread, I am not finding this book dated. I seems more like an Agatha Christie novel in that regard - more of a classic kind of mystery that is not dependent on the time in which it is set, but more on the characters and the plot.

Just finished The Blessing Way , I read it ages ago and was surprised that I still found it as exorbitant as it was in 1972. It seems that I am not the only one that sort of feels that Ellen is just sort of there. She seems to be in the way when McKee is trying to escape the witch and then is no help when they are held captive. I thought for a while that she was in on the scheme with the bad guys.

It also felt strange to me that these characters were children of the 30s and had probably were Veterans of WWII. One thing that makes it timeless is that the mystery could have been at anytime and still been exciting.

I've finally gotten The Blessing Way from the library hold list and am up to Chapter 11. So far, so good. I'm avoiding reading any of these comments because I really prefer not to know anything about a book before I read it, even things that most (normal) people would not consider spoilers. But I'm looking forward to coming back and catching up with what everyone thinks as soon as I finish it!

>56 rosalita: I'm on Chapter 13 myself Julia so I am also skimming the comments. I hope to finish soon.

Such a shame work gets in the way of my reading. ;-)

#55
I believe there is a reference somewhere later in the book that Leaphorn was a veteran of Vietnam. Also that McKee was in Korea and involved in the retreat to the Pusan beachhead. I also noticed the timelessness of the story. Expect for the lack of cell phones and GPS. This is just a good classic mystery.

OK, OK, my first comment was "Ho-hum" at 40 pages in. But I knew I should persevere because you are all enjoying it.

Now I am at page 80 and loving it! I like the mysticism and it kind of puts me in mind of Dr. Siri Paiboun in Colin Cotterill's books. I read all 8 of them one after the other in late 2013 and early 2014.

Thanks for introducing me to this series.

I love this quote from the book "He was suddenly acutely conscious that he was probably setting the time limit on his life. 'I think thirty minutes,' he said. It was eight minutes more than Eddie allowed him." This is straight up creating tension writing found in so many of the good mystery/thrillers. The author tells you what is going to happen but does it in such a way that you can't wait to keep reading to find out what happens. That is good technique - and this in Hillerman's first novel! Cool.

I finished this book today during my lunch hour and I must say that I enjoyed it. I gave it a 3.5 rating and that is pretty good for me as I have never given a book a 5 and rarely do 4 or 4.5. I may change my mind on the rating but this was a good introduction to the series.

I have to echo the comments of others that this was slow going at first but it really picked up and held my attention all the way to the end. I would agree that it seems pretty timeless, although I did flip back and check the copyright date after one of the characters made reference to having served in the Korean War.

I did not have as much of a problem with Ellen Leon's characterization as some did, but on the other hand I completely understand the criticisms and don't entirely disagree with them. I know several people have said that Hillerman's writing improved through the series and I can believe it, although this is remarkably well written for a first novel. Does anyone know how old Hillerman was in 1970 when it was published?

The only other comment I have is after reading this and Death Comes for the Archbishop last year I am definitely putting a trip to New Mexico near the top of my travel destinations wishlist. Such beautiful descriptions of a landscape utterly alien to what I grew up with and am used to.

I'm looking forward to getting to know the "Blue Policeman" better throughout the year!

>61 rosalita: Hillerman was born in 1925, so he would have been about 45 in 1970.

Ah, thank you for that, Helenoel. So not a callow youth (although 45 seems younger to me every year).

I finished The Blessing Way and agree with most that it was a little slow to start. I agree with Benita's assessment in >54 benitastrnad:. I do think that the explanation of The Navajo Way was very informative and probably necessary for continuing with the future of the series.

I do wish we had spent a little more time with Joe Leaphorn in the book versus McKee. I love his thought process but I want more!

For those that don't realize this, because I really didn't, Joe Leaphorn is in the first three books and then Jimmy Chee is the detective in books four through six. They don't work together until book seven, Skinwalkers.

>65 rosalita: I wondered where this Chee guy fit in — thanks, Ro.

>65 rosalita: I thought they started working together in book four Julia but I was mistaken.

Now I feel like I shouldn't get too attached to Leaphorn if he's going to disappear for a few books. But I guess he does come back so it's OK. I just have abandonment issues. :-)

>67 rosalita: Me too! Plus I felt we didn't have that much time with him in his book.

The payoff will be when we get to Skinwalkers it is supposed to be really good and we can watch the PBS Mystery movie that was based on the novel after we read the book.

>68 luvamystery65: Oh, that will be cool!

I didn't know that we were going to get to watch a movie! That wasn't in the brochure.

>69 rosalita: Right!

>70 Crazymamie: You are correct. I it was not in the brochure. Mamie, technically it is book 7 in the series and we aren't on target to read it this year, but we can decide if we want to throw it in as an end of the year bonus later in the year. If not, then we will start next January with a bang!

VERY exciting!

#64
I also thought it was very different that most of the story was centered around McKee instead of Leaphorn. It wasn't a bad idea but for the first book in a series it seemed like a very different approach to setting up the series. I did like the way the Leaphorn character was used - as a way to let us know about the culture and the beliefs rather than concentrating on the person. It seems clear to me that the author wants his readers to appreciate the land and the people as he moves through the sequence of this series.

How interesting that the first book centers so much on McKee and not Leaphorn and now you say that Jimmy Chee takes over later? Hmmmm. As I said before, for me, the beginning was rough, but then it smoothed over and became a pretty good mystery. Although I enjoyed the Navajo information, it felt like roughly inserted patchwork. As to Ellen's presence, I was not as bothered by her appearance in the book. It was a necessary plot device to introduce someone or something in order to slow down McKee so he could be caught by the Witch and it also caused me to trust her fiancee for just that fraction of a second before realizing he was the bad guy. On a side note: I was peeved with my Kindle edition. I can only see the percentage read indicated and can't cheat and look at the end of the book. So I was at 90% when the story concluded (the rest was filled with promos and other stuff) and that made the ending feel very abrupt to me. Not the writer's fault. All in all, a very enjoyable first book and an even better group of fellow readers! I look forward to more.

I'm three chapters in and about the start chapter four. I see what you all mean about a slow start. I haven't gotten into the flow yet because there is so much head-hopping and info-dumping.

>75 Morphidae: chuckle ... "head hopping and info dumping" ...

I finished the book yesterday and while I enjoyed it I do think that the few I've read from later in the series are better books. I rather have the impression that he may not have been intending a new series when he wrote this one.

I've just begun reading The Blessing Way and liking it so far.

Leaphorn just saw what the "scalp" is. Now it's starting to get interesting.

>79 Morphidae: I'm at the same place you are. I am enjoying this read very much. I have been to the internet and researched the mythology of the Navajo and it has been really interesting. I love it when a book prompts me to find out more. Plus a mystery to boot!

>73 benitastrnad: It seems clear to me that the author wants his readers to appreciate the land and the people as he moves through the sequence of this series. I agree completely. I got a sense of Hillerman's respect for the land and the culture of the Navajo from his writing.

>74 Berly: I'm going to address the first part in another post. I agree with you about Ellen as a plot device. I ended up reading the Kindle version as well and had the same reaction. "It's over? I'm only at 90%!"

>75 Morphidae: Yes it does bog you down in the beginning. >79 Morphidae: Joe gets on a roll pretty soon after this.

>76 ccookie: :-)

>77 hailelib: Not sure what his intentions were when he wrote The Blessing Way but I look forward to the rest of the series. If I didn't know there were more books I would be disappointed because a large section of the book was centered on McKee not Leaphorn.

>78 tymfos: Looking forward to your thoughts.

>80 ccookie: Google was my friend during the first third of the book!

I'm not sure how much I like McKee. He seems a bit of an idiot. If I got a note from a friend saying "see ya Monday" with the wrong name signed, I'd go to the police immediately. It was obviously forced and the name was a clue.

>82 Morphidae: I agree but remember that it was getting dark and there was no easy way out of that camp. No cell phones or satellite phones at the time. He was stuck deep in Navajo country. He new the "woman" was coming and he didn't want to leave her out there alone with a possible "bad guy." So yes, he was an idiot but the story gives us reasons for an intelligent man to behave so dumb.

Now let's roll our eyes together. ;-)

Warning! I will start ranting if the characters frequently find themselves in this type of predicament.

Hillerman adored the Southwest, especially the Navajos and wanted to impart this love to his readers.

It's been fun reading all of your comments. I may need to reread the Hillerman series with you...but my agenda is already full of various commitments :

I finished it a few days ago. Thinking it over, I think my reaction isn't much different from anyone else's. I wanted more Leaphorn, less of McKee, I didn't like the woman one bit. The ending felt a bit abrupt (you didn't have to be reading an e-book to feel that way) and was a bit hazy as to the details of the scheme they'd uncovered. I'd guess that one character was a baddie way ahead of the reveal. It was his first novel, so I can cut him some slack. I've heard that the series gets really good as it goes along, and so am eager to continue.

T--Well said! On to the next one. In March!

I have pulled the Longmire book off my shelves but right now I am reading a book for the British Author Challenge. I will be juggling these two reading project while taking two college courses this semester, so I will have a full reading life.

I have read several of the Hillerman books - but not in order - and Blessing Way was not one that I had read previously. Compared to some of the later novels - in my opinion, the series improves as it moves along. I agree that it has some problems with plot but overall I find this a very tightly edited novel compared to some of the floppy sloppy behemoths that are being published today. I am starting to have problems with mysteries that are over 450 pages in length.

What Terri said.

I spoke with another book reading friend of mine about the Hillerman/Johnson reading project and she is interested in joining us. She thought that the idea of reading these two "western" mystery series could be compared and contrasted was intriguing. She is not an LT member but perhaps soon will be just so she can join us.

I read The Blessing Way today and really enjoyed it. In particular, I loved the setting, which was totally new to me, and which I'm looking forward to revisiting in future books. I was a bit surprised that it was published as long ago as 1970 (in other contexts I would argue that 1970 isn't that long ago at all!), but then again the total lack of gadgetry created the story, in a way. With a mobile phone or GPS everything would have been solved pretty quickly :-)

Time to catch up on some comments.

>84 AuntieClio: Stephanie Hillerman's love for the Navajo and the land comes shining through.

>85 justchris: Welcome! I hope you join us for comments even if you don't find the time to reread. Please feel free to post here when you do get around to rereading The Blessing Way.

>86 tymfos: I'm eager to continue as well.

>87 Berly: Here here Kim!

>88 benitastrnad: I've been reading some of the Nordic crime mysteries and I agree that some of these stories could use some tighter editing. Honestly they get so convoluted it's hard to keep up.

>89 Crazymamie: Yep.

>90 benitastrnad: I hope she does join Benita. A year long read with a group is a great way to get your feet wet in LT.

>91 susanj67: It is amazing how technology or the lack of it can affect the way the mystery gets solved. I love the Cadfael mysteries because how in the world would you prove a crime way back then? Cadfael knew how. Of course you didn't need to prove guilt without a doubt before they would run off and hang you.

It will be interesting to see how technology starts appearing in the books the further along we get.

My favorite part was when Leaphorn was at the ceremony. Learning about the ceremony and how he dealt with the various people was fun. I didn't like McKee much at all. I'm not sure what put me off about him. Perhaps a bit uncaring and cranky? As others have said, the first part was rough going but the second part zoomed along. Lastly, I think it was too much a product of its time - too male oriented and biased.

If I was reading this on my own, I doubt I would read another in this series since I wouldn't know, as many of you have said, that they get better.

I'll give it 6/10 stars - good not great.

>93 Morphidae: I think it was too much a product of its time - too male oriented and biased. Agree with you on this point Morphy. That was ultimately my problem with Spenser. He changed with the times on the surface as the series progressed but Robert B. Parker's attitude about women came shining through and I had to give the series a break.

There was a BBC radio series done on how mysteries reflect the culture of the times in which they were created. The series concentrated on several different European authors. There was a Czech author - the Lieutant Babka series - or I think that was the name of them, a spanish author, a couple of British authors, a German of Turk ethnicity, and the Swedish duo of which Maj Sjowell was half. The wrote the Martin Beck books. The radio series pointed out that each of the authors wrote about, what was then fringe movements, or fringes of the societies, that have since become mainstream. For instance, the Martin Beck series, wrote about the Scandianvian Neo-Nazi groups many years before they exploded onto the scene and made world news.

Perhaps, the Joe Leaphorn books are documenting a past attitude, but what if they aren't?

I also wonder who was the main character in this book - McKee or Leaphorn? Was the book simply a vehicle to introduce the Navajo way of life and thinking to the public? It makes me want to read the second in the series just to find out how Hillerman develops this character.

Just requested The Cold Dish from the library..

>95 benitastrnad: I listened to some of that series Benita. It really did have a lot to say. Maj Sjowell really were one of the first to feature social issues in their mysteries. The crime was really a symptom of what was going on in the larger society.

Perhaps, the Joe Leaphorn books are documenting a past attitude, but what if they aren't? I don't know if the author intentionally meant to document a past attitude but I suppose all works and authors are a product of their time. It's remarkable when an author intentionally wants to bring about a change in attitude with their works of fiction. Maj Swojell are perfect examples that come to mind.

>96 Helenoel: Speaking of Cold Dish...

February we begin with The Cold Dish


Book description from the publisher: After twenty-five years as sheriff of Absaroka County, Walt Longmire’s hopes of finishing out his tenure in peace are dashed when Cody Pritchard is found dead near the Northern Cheyenne Reservation. Two years earlier, Cody has been one of four high school boys given suspended sentences for raping a local Cheyenne girl. Somebody, it would seem, is seeking vengeance, and Longmire might be the only thing standing between the three remaining boys and a Sharps .45-70 rifle.

With lifelong friend Henry Standing Bear, Deputy Victoria Moretti, and a cast of characters both tragic and humorous enough to fill in the vast emptiness of the high plains, Walt Longmire attempts to see that revenge, a dish best served cold, is never served at all.

If anyone is still reading or plans to read The Blessing Way please feel free to continue and post. I just ask that you mark your post with the title at the beginning so we know you're not commenting on the current month's selection.

Now on to Walt Longmire!

I really enjoyed The Blessing Way and all the interesting comments on it. I am looking forward to exploring Montana with a new-to-me author!

>100 Donna828: Longmire takes place in Wyoming Donna. I've read the first two but it's been a couple of years. I'm going to reread them and get settled here. ;-)

>100 Donna828: I am halfway through The Cold Dish so I have the advantage of knowing that Johnson's books are set in Wyoming. Another reason I know is that the author lives in (near) Sheridan, WY which is very close to my mother's home town of Buffalo, WY. I was born in Jackson, WY so we are Wyoming ladies at heart. I am really enjoying this author who is also new to me.

>102 dallenbaugh: My nephew lives in Sheridan.

>103 thornton37814: A small world as they say.

Wyoming is a cool state, too!

I've started The Cold Dish today and I love it so far :-) If anyone has the Kindle version and it seems to be missing chunks of text, which you can only find by changing the font size all the time, change it to size 5 and that should fix it. I've never had Kindle problems before so this might just be a buggy file, but it was pretty annoying until I worked that out!

>102 dallenbaugh:, >103 thornton37814: & >104 dallenbaugh: It's nice that you have a connection to the location of the novel.

>105 Donna828: Indeed! It's on my bucket list.

>106 susanj67: Thank you for that information Susan. I am tinkering with getting the Kindle version and if I do, I'll just change the font to 5 to avoid any bugs.

Thanks for the debugging advice for the Kindle! Downloading it today.

I've got my library's print copy and, several chapters in, I'm enjoying the story and having fun comparing it to the video version.

Done! I liked this one a lot. (The Cold Dish)Not as much NA background as last month's, but a more cohesive story with a lot of snarky humor and lovable characters. I didn't want the mystery to be solved and I don't want to have to wait two months for the next one!

>110 Berly: I'm 2/3d's the way through The Cold Dish on audio but your comments describe it and my feelings perfectly.

The only thing I didn't like about it was the snarky humor. I don't really like the character of Vic either, but all that goodness in Longmire and Henry has to be countered by somebody. Why not a foul mouthed mean spirited woman? I think it is really original to have a career woman so obviously unhappy with herself and her life fill that role. And another question - why is it that police characters have to have their career choice be in the "family business?" There are other careers where family members follow family members why is it such a big deal with police?

>112 benitastrnad: I understand why you would see Vic that way but it seemed somewhat normal to me that a woman would have to act that way in a career that is very male dominated. I was on a paid fire department for 17 years and as one of three women out of 60 or so men I was always having to defend myself to them and to the public (and maybe to myself) that I was capable of doing the job which I was. It took a long time for me to discover I could be more than just "tough" and that I brought different sensibilities to the job and could point out there were ways to make the job easier for all involved. It will be interesting to see how Johnson develops Vic's character in the future.

>112 benitastrnad: re: Vic in The Cold Dish: You also have to remember that she's from Philadelphia, and started her career as a Philadelphia cop. As a former resident of the "City of Brotherly Love", I have to say >113 dallenbaugh: is right on, and with it even more so from that background, especially in a houshold full of police -- and that "family business" thing is really strong in Philly, at least in some quarters. I think she would have to be one TOUGH cookie to survive in that environment. You can take the woman out of Philly, but you can't take Philly out of the woman. (And yes, a lot of Philadelphians hate the nickname "Philly," but I'm not one of them.)

I just got notice that I have surfaced to the top of the library holds list for The Cold Dish. I'm looking forward to digging into it tonight, and then finally I'll be able to read what you have been saying about it. The suspense is killing me!

I was astonished to read this passage on page 112 of my paperback copy of Cold Dish.

"...fine dining at its best. The steam rolled out as I opened the container and prepared to eat Dorothy's famous Brookville, Kansas, recipe chicken. It was a religious experience."

I nearly fell out of bed when I read that sentence. I have been to the Brookville Hotel in Brookville, Kansas and had that fried chicken. The Brookville Hotel was famous for that chicken and their homemade ice cream. The hotel was a historical original. It was located in Brookville. Brookville had a population of about 30 people. It was a railhead located between Ellsworth and Abilene on the cattle trails back in the 1870's. Somehow it managed to survive and it was a destination for people for miles around for many years. Back in the 1970's my grandparents took all of their children and grandchildren to eat there. It was one of those family events I still remember. The hotel sold postcards with a picture of it on one side and the recipe for one of their famous dishes on the other. My mother has the recipe for their coleslaw and ice cream and still uses the coleslaw recipe.

Sad news is that the Brookville Hotel closed down about 5 years ago and moved to Abilene where, ironically, it is still called the Brookville Hotel. Only it isn't. It is in a new building built specially for this restaurant. It was moved to Abilene because the new owners thought they would get more tourist traffic because Abilene is home to the Eisenhower Museum and library. I was horrified when I learned of the move. How can it be the Brookville Hotel and not be in Brookville?

Brookville is also famous for the CK Ranch. This huge ranch is owned by the Vanier family. Descendants of this family also owns Archer Daniels Midland Co.

It blew me away to see this famous landmark mentioned in this book.

I finished The Cold Dish tonight and thoroughly enjoyed it. I thought the beginning was a little bit uneven, with Longmire's snarky humor a bit over the top, but I think it was a function of the author trying to establish his character quickly instead of letting us get to know him over the course of the book. Once the murder happened I thought the writing style settled down and while there was still humor and snarkiness, especially from Vic, it seemed much more natural to the story.

I enjoyed all the characters, especially Vic, who is the quintessential tough sassy broad doing a man's job. You go, girl!

>116 benitastrnad: How cool is that! That you know the landmark and actually ate there! So sorry it moved.

>117 rosalita: I totally agree. Can't wait for book #2!

It was really good and it seems like April is too long to wait to read the next Longmire. Maybe we will rewatch a few of the TV episodes.

I just started The Cold Dish on audio yesterday. This is a reread for me. I was struck early on when Longmire is remembering something that he makes a a very brief mention of a mystical experience. When I looked up, it was as if she had read my mind, that we had shared a vision.

I've only read the first two and I love this mystical aspect of the Longmire stories. I do hope the series continues on this vein. This is one of the main reasons that I thought the two series would pair well together.

>120 luvamystery65: Since this is a re-read for you, you probably remember that there are more mystical elements throughout the book. I thought they were very well done and added to the depth of the narrative. Sometimes those sorts of things take me right out of the story, but not in this case.

You were so right about these two series going well together. Ro's a smart cookie!

I started A Cold Dish yesterday- enjoying it so far. so far I see some points of similarity to C.J. Box's game warden series. Who knew I was familiar with so many series set in Wyoming...

>122 Helenoel: Do you like the C.J. Box series? I have the first book but haven't dipped into it yet.

>123 rosalita: I like C.J. Box's Joe Pickett series a lot. Interestingly different law enforcement issues - strong characters with human flaws and interesting side stories. Try to read them at least approximately in order, as the story develops and later ones could be spoilers for some early ones. He has a few books outside the series- I've only read one- it was good too.

>124 Helenoel: Thanks for the advice! I like knowing that they should be read in order.

I've also finished The Cold Dish and I loved it. Vic's constant swearing *is* a bit of a bore, but there are lots of other great characters so I can tolerate her.

I agree with >122 Helenoel: Helen that there are some similarities with the C J Box novels (but I think Johnson is a better writer), and I am also surprised that I have read so much about Wyoming! (I also agree that the C J Box series should be read in order as there is often as much happening in the family story as in the murder story).

I'm looking forward to the next Craig Johnson one in April. Roberta, this is a great project - thank you for setting it up!

I finished this yesterday and really enjoyed it. I had a little trouble with the dialogue in the beginning and thought the investigations could have been tightened a bit, but I loved the mysticism and thought it fit in well with the story rather than being tacked on.

>116 benitastrnad: Yet another cool connection to the book. I drive right by Abilene on my way to and from CO several times a year. I wonder if I could get an order of fried chicken to go? I carry an ice chest with me. Might give it a try!

#127
I think you could get whole meals to go. The old Brookville Hotel served all meals family style in the same false front building that was built back in the 1870's. They had several dining rooms and up until sometime in the 1970's rooms were rented for overnight stays as well, but the place was noisy and crowded on weekends.

As I understand it the reason the place was closed in Brookville was that the state insisted that modern sewer and water facilities had to be installed due to the numbers of people who were eating there. The town was too small to make the needed repairs and the owners were retirement age so decided to pack it in. Then somebody came up with this scheme to move, what had become a Kansas institution, it to Abilene.

In all fairness, Abilene is also an old Cow Town, so I shouldn't be so hard on the owners and the city fathers who pressed for the move.

I finished The Cold Dish last night. It took until about the middle until I saw why we are pairing Longmire and Chee. Enjoyed it very much.

I'm just starting The Cold Dish tonight before bed. This one seems to have prompted much less discussion here (which I've skipped over for now) than the Hillerman book. My penguin paperback does have a plug by Tony Hillerman on the top of the front cover and it also has a penguin reader's guide at the end of it. I'll check back in when I finish (or sooner perhaps ... )

I'm another fan of C.J. Box's Joe Pickett series, and I think most of those who are enjoying the Hillerman and Longmire series will enjoy the Joe P. books, too.

I'm about a quarter through Cold Dish and enjoying the storytelling. This is easy to read with lots of local color. I note that both this and The Blessing Way were the first novels for the authors, so that is something to keep in mind.

I wondered why there was less discussion about this book as well. I liked this book, but didn't think much about the women in book. They all seemed like window dressing, or stage props. I also think that Longmire is attracted to needy women.

I got past the halfway point last night with "The Cold Dish" and I am finding I like this much more than "The Blessing Way". There are elements that detract for me: the snarkiness wore thin pretty quickly and I do not like how he has amped up the foul mouth of Vic. I like her quirkiness but not the f bombs in every other sentence. There is otherwise an interesting cast of characters. Vonnie seems the odd one out in this community tho - that may not be the right description but she doesn't seem to quite fit. I don't feel like digging back through the pages but I feel like I missed some backstory with her and her budding romance with Longmire. High school friends or something? I like how the small town makes anyone's business everyone's business, including Longmire and Vonnie. I think the writing improved a lot from the beginning of the book. I like a story that drops in bits of history here and there. I also like Longmire's relationship with Henry - feels like a real friendship and a modern update of the Lone Ranger and Tonto. (I mean that in a good way). Henry is my favorite character.

I've got jury duty this week - that may or may not let me finish this up soon. I'll check back in when I'm done.

This was a good pairing with the Hillerman.

I agree. I also liked The Cold Dish more than The Blessing Way. I found it to be richer and more complex with deeper characterizations. I also loved the humor. Unlike >134 RBeffa:, especially the snark. However, like >134 RBeffa: I got tired of the f-bombs and I hope Johnson eases up on them. I get the point. I did find it amusing when Longmire said that old guy in the cabin and Vic would get along just fine though.

Now, I read a lot of fantasy so magic and spiritualism doesn't bother me in the slightest. However, Longmire's visions on the mountain were too woo-woo and stream-of-consciousness for me and I skimmed much of it.

Overall, I enjoyed it and gave it 7/10 stars verses the 6/10 stars I gave The Blessing Way. I almost gave it 8/10 stars but some of Longmire's actions and characteristics annoyed me. I hope there is character growth in the upcoming books.

Somehow I liked the idea of the Blessing Way as a way of life and a way of policing better than the mysticism in Cold Dish. I think that the Blessing Way was presented as a religious way of looking at everything, including police work. I think the character of Leaphorn in the first book felt more authentic to me, as well. Perhaps because I felt that the Blessing Way was a holistic philosophy accepted by Leaphorn. Somehow the Cold Dish felt like modern woo-woo. I felt like the reader is supposed to be understanding and accepting of the spirits of the old ones, the Old Cheyenne protecting one of their own (which Longmire clearly is by virtue of his connection to the Sharpe's Rifle that was given to him). The Blessing Way, on-the-other-hand is clearly a way of life for Leaphorn. It is who he is.

I also think that Vic is the old character out in the Cold Dish. She simply doesn't fit. If she worked in my home county she wouldn't have worked for long. The natives don't tolerate mouthy foreigners easily and in a public service job especially. Snookie from New Jersey wouldn't be working long in Western Kansas.

#135
I agree with your spoiler statement. Very good observation and description about that scene in the book. That whole scene bothered me. I just didn't find it plausible. I lived out west and in a snowstorm like that you don't last long and walking is so very difficult. (but being from up-state New York, you would know about mountain terrain as well.) I would find it believable to have rescued one person, but two? Even with the help of the spirits - just not happening for me.

>136 benitastrnad: I agree that Vic was really the odd one out, but it was very clear that she was intentionally made so. I find it hard to believe she would have been accepted and tolerated despite her skills, and even less believable as the heir-apparent. As I read further I found Vonnie less sticking out, but she stuck out as someone who came from the county, not a Philly import. Omar sticks out quite a bit too. I guess Vonnie and Omar being so obviously filthy rich contrast pretty strongly with the rest of the people.

Here are my thoughts/comments on The Cold Dish.

I had mentioned that I thought I had missed some backstory on Vonnie, and I may have, but when I resumed reading I got some backstory on Vonnie on the very next page. cracked myself up.

I rated The Blessing Way as 2.5/5. 2.5-3 is an average read for me on the 5 star scale. That would be 5/10. I was mentally considering "The Cold Dish" as a 3.5+/5 or a 7+/10 until the end game. I thought Craig Johnson had done a very good job on elevating the suspense, broadening the character development of just about everyone, adding local color especially with the Cheyenne, casting suspicion all over the place .. in other words, writing a good mystery/suspense story and one that was a little different. I'm not a fan of guns so all the "gun worship" in the novel was a bit wasted on me. The mystical stuff on the mountain added some color and started well, but I thought it went on a little too long as well as strangely. Without being more than a little bit spoilery I thought the story fell off from there when Longmire came down the mountain trail through the blizzard with Esper. When he went back up we suddenly lose an entire scene - half a chapter worth perhaps and everyone wakes up in the hospital. That bothered me quite a bit. Finding their bones next spring might have been more believable. Moreso when I thought about how could anyone get up there and not see the "Tuff 1" truck coming down the mountain road? We had been told a number of times about how they drove for miles and saw no other vehicles. So I think someone might notice the Tuff1 Mazda making the great escape. If the reader can even accept that. I saw it coming, I'm sure everyone did, but wished it hadn't come. That part of the story failed me.

I noticed a few glitches in the storytelling. The conversations were hard to follow more than a few times, esp between Henry and Longmire - I'd read and re-read trying to figure who was talking and even what they were meaning. Not always successfully. Sometimes it was in the colorful expressions ... for example on pg 198 "I was looking forward to our next meeting like Grant did Gettysburg" I'd never heard that before. Probably no one has. Grant never did Gettysburg. Grant was busy elsewhere (Vicksburg I think). Gen. George Meade led the Union against Lee at Gettysburg. I suppose if he had written "looking forward to our next meeting like Longstreet did Gettysburg" there might have been even more puzzled readers. Or maybe not. At least it would be accurate.

I was disappointed with the end. It is not quite a Dues ex machina. To use and slightly mangle a cultural reference like the author loves to do, I'll say "it came out of the sky, landed just a little south of Moline. Jody fell out of his tractor, couldn't believe what he seen." So I give it a 3 star rating. With a bullet.

The moral of the story? Perhaps all of this could have been avoided if justice had been applied a little fairer in the first place. Bailiff, whack his pee pee.

#137
I noticed that reference to Grant and Gettysburg as well. I noted it in my book diary and put it down to poor fact checking. Poor fact checking is a common fault nowadays, along with poor editing. Publisher don't like doing it, so leave it to author's to hire it done.

The gun worship wasn't so much gun worship to me as it was faulty history. There were no Sharp's Buffalo guns in the American Civil War. There was a 45 -.70 that was made by Sharp's. The earlier 45.70's were not known as buffalo guns until after the Civil War. The things are big and ungainly and very hard to carry around on horseback. Where the story fell apart for me was that the woman was small enough for him to carry a lengthy distance, which means she was probably under 100 pounds. A person that small would have lots (and I mean lots) of trouble shooting a 45.70 as it would be almost as heavy as she was. Also, many people out west have 30-30's or 30-06's. It would be much harder for law enforcement to trace one of those than a rare gun. But like you said, overall it wasn't bad for a first book.

I just started on Dance Hall of the Dead and find it very different than the first book in that series. I do think it is a good thing to compare and contrast these two series and I am surprised at how much there is to compare and contrast.

>138 benitastrnad: Good comments. Years ago when I was pretty deep in Civil War history I might have noticed the Sharp's glitch. I did twitch a bit with it but let it go.

One thing I forgot to mention. The Blessing Way, from 1970, felt like 1970 when reading it. Cold Dish was first published at the end of 2004. Despite a couple mentions of cell phones it feels like it was set a decade (or two) earlier. All the references to old cars and trucks in particular. I think there was a notable lack of current cultural touchstones.

ETA: Did anyone expect the ending of the novel? As noted by benitastrnad, the weight and size of the gun ... made it a hard sell for me.

I always notice how old the cars and trucks are when I go home. Compared to the beautiful shiny pickups I have to dodge in the parking deck they look positively ancient. Up until about two years ago there were few new pickups to be found in farm country. Then grain prices started going up and the first thing most farmers did was go buy a new tractor and pickup. My relatives included. Now corn and wheat are half what they were a year ago and they are mighty glad they made those high dollar purchases when they did.

I think it is one of the crimes of this country that most of the pickups and SUV's sold in the U. S. never get off of a paved road. That means they are being used by commuters to drive to and from work in a city. Farm trucks are old and beat up because they are used for work.

I also think that culturally things are slower out in the boonies. That doesn't mean that some places don't serve a mean latte but it does mean that the term granola parent or crunchy mom doesn't have the same resonance out there as it does in Denver. On-the-other-hand, the Starbucks at the Oasis on the Plains in Colby, Kansas is one of the busiest Starbucks I have ever seen, and craft beer is a big deal out in the hinterlands. I would also bet a good part of my paycheck that most city folks wouldn't be caught dead in a pair of Carhartt insulated coveralls, which are standard winter equipment on the Plains, or know what wind really feels like when it has been blowing all the way down from Saskatchewan, or coming off the Staked Plains in Texas in the summer. I am also sure that if Johnson put in all those details they would be lost on the average reader and would not help gain him an audience.

Johnson made some mistakes with this story, but as a westerner I am satisfied with the authentic details he did put in the novel. But I also agree that something seemed to politically correct in this novel. I am not even sure if the term politically correct is the right term to use, but I can't put my finger on the term or word that describes how I feel about it. I think there is room for improvement in the authors work and hope that he will find his feet.

I also wonder how many of us have seen the TV series based on these novels and if that has any effect on how we see this novel? Also wonder if seeing the Joe Leaphorn series has an effect on how we read those? Once a novel has gone to TV writers and actors is the vision that the author has still the same as the one he started out with?

>135 Morphidae: I'm from relatively flat Minnesota.

I love all the comments on The Cold Dish. As I said earlier this is a reread for me.

I love the descriptions of the country and I agree the mystic elements are a little stream of consciousness but it works for me.

The characters have a lot of potential even the annoying ones I think. I can't decide if Lucian or Henry is my favorite. A tie for different reasons.

>140 benitastrnad: I also wonder how many of us have seen the TV series based on these novels and if that has any effect on how we see this novel? Also wonder if seeing the Joe Leaphorn series has an effect on how we read those? Once a novel has gone to TV writers and actors is the vision that the author has still the same as the one he started out with?

Excellent question Benita!

The characters look nothing like the book in the TV series except maybe Ruby. I read the first book before I saw the show and I only saw the first two seasons. I think Vic does and says some things on the show that I can't see the Vic from the book doing but I've only read the first two books. Lucian's nephew is also a lot more savvy in the show than the first book portrays.

The book is different from the series and I do wonder if the show will affect the books or if he will continue to do his own thing the way Charlaine Harris did with the Sookie Stackhouse books.

March we begin with Dance Hall of the Dead


Book description from the publisher: Two Native-American boys have vanished into thin air, leaving a pool of blood behind them. Lieutenant Joe Leaphorn of the Navajo Tribal Police has no choice but to suspect the very worst, since the blood that stains the parched New Mexican ground once flowed through the veins of one of the missing, a young Zuñi. But his investigation into a terrible crime is being complicated by an important archaeological dig . . . and a steel hypodermic needle. And the unique laws and sacred religious rites of the Zuñi people are throwing impassable roadblocks in Leaphorn's already twisted path, enabling a craven murderer to elude justice or, worse still, to kill again.

And I've already got a copy of Dance Hall of the Dead from the liberry. Yay, me!

Not going to start it until Sunday, though, because it wouldn't be playing fair. ;-)

>145 rosalita: Go ahead Julia! No hard and fast rules here.

I need to wrap up a few other books before plunging back into the Tribal Lands!

#143
I recently read that George R. R. Martin is taking the TV version of game of Thrones in a completely different direction than that of the books and he has warned his readers of that fact. I am sure that Craig Johnson doesn't have much control over the series once he sold the rights to the series, but I am not sure about that.

I do know that the TV series of the Leaphorn novels was done by PBS and that Robert Redford's company produced them. They were lauded because they used only Native American actors and followed the storyline as laid out in the books. I remember watching one of the PBS shows but have never seen all three of them. Maybe when our year long read is over I will try to find them and watch them just to see how closely they do follow the books.

I am sure that most of the Leaphorn books were written before the series was done for TV so doubt that it would have affected the way the books developed - but I don't know that for sure.

>148 benitastrnad: I don't think Johnson has much control over the series either.

We were talking earlier in the year (way up the thread) about the PBS movies. The first movie is based on Skinwalkers which is the 7th book in the series and the first where Leaphorn and Chee work together. I was hoping we could, as many of us that could, watch it and then read the 7th book. I'll bring up the subject later in the year.

Dance Hall of the Dead was better than The Blessing Way, more cohesive, centering on Joe Leaphorn working out the solution. One of the many things I love about Hillerman - and I've probably said this already - is the way he uses Native American culture in context with solving the mystery. In these books, it's important to understand the culture in order to understand the context of the crime, and its solution.

So now a wait for another two months to read the next one. Who said patience was a virtue? *sigh*

>150 AuntieClio: I agree. Dancehall was much better written. I listened to it on audiobook in the car and it did pretty well in that setting.

I agree that Dancehall was a better novel than Blessing. I was also surprised at how well it stood up. For being 40 years old it still enthralled me. It continues to amaze me that this author can pack so much into a 250 page novel. I think that many authors, including Johnson, should take note and start tiding up their work. There was plenty of material in Cold Dish that could have been left out and not have hurt the novel. I realize that Johnson was setting up the series, but Hillerman is doing the same thing in half the number of pages.

>152 benitastrnad: I think you are comparing apples to oranges a bit, Benita. When you compare the first novel of each series, The Cold Dish is clearly better at setting up a continuing series. I strongly suspect from the way The Blessing Way is written that Hillerman had no real idea that Leaphorn would be anything other than a standalone novel. I didn't feel The Cold Dish was overly long, either, but that's merely a matter of taste and not a disagreement with your opinion.

I do agree that Dance Hall of the Dead is the best of the three we've read so far. I thoroughly enjoyed it and a lot of the flaws we all mentioned from the first book were eliminated in this one. I really got a sense of who Leaphorn is and how he goes about the business of detecting, and how his methods are uniquely informed by his being a Navajo. Also, this one didn't feel nearly as dated as the first one.

Hillerman is learning his trade as he fleshes out his characters both male and female,and brings Lt Leaphorn into focus as a dedicated, precise thinking police detective, but with a twist as he draws on his Navajo heritage.

>153 rosalita: I agree that it is hard to compare the first two novels. Comparing The Cold Dish with Dance Hall of the Dead makes more sense to me. I had a fun time with Johnson's first novel hearing it read on audio by George Guidell. But Hillerman's second book was a winner in an entirely different way. It was a short but detailed novel that held my interest the whole way with its blend of mystery and ethnological details. I didn't like one more than the other but maybe listening to the one on audio made a difference.

Here are some of my observations on Dance Hall of the Dead:

1) It is hinted that Leaphorn's experiences away from the reservation and at school have tempered his belief in many of the myths of his people at the same time he honors them.

2) Archeologists exploring the Indian's lands have figured prominently in his first two novels.

3) At first there doesn't seem to be much humor in the novel but Leaphorn's brand of humor is portrayed in his dealings with the FBI agents and is as subtle as a raised eyebrow at the mystery of how all FBI agents seem to be fashioned out of the same mold.

4)Altogether a fascinating novel told in a succinct manner that fits with the Navajo way.

I noted the hints about Leaphorn's life experiences away from his present job and the Navajo reservation as well. I suspect that they are revealed later. I have read three of the later novels already and know that the archaeology keeps returning to the novels.

#153
I do think that the Blessing Way was probably viewed as an experiment and since the author didn't know if the series would "make" he probably wrote it to be more of a stand alone type of novel. In that regard I agree that comparing the first Johnson with the second Hillerman makes more sense.

I do think that Johnson could have introduced us to some of the characters in his life in a later novel as needed, and that would have taken care of much of the future back story stuff that, in my opinion, clutters the Cold Dish and makes it overly long.

>155 benitastrnad: I do think that Johnson could have introduced us to some of the characters in his life in a later novel as needed, and that would have taken care of much of the future back story stuff that, in my opinion, clutters the Cold Dish

Yes, I would definitely agree with this.

Dance Hall of the Dead was much better than Hillerman's first novel and I liked that archaeology figured in the story. I read this book in 2008 and looking at the remarks I made at the time, I seem to have enjoyed it a lot more this time around. Even so, I prefer The Cold Dish and apparently liked it better than many in the group.

>157 hailelib: I prefer The Cold Dish and apparently liked it better than many in the group.

I think if you read back through the comments, the majority of people either "loved" or "really enjoyed" The Cold Dish, including me.

I am finding that I like both of these series. They are both different and yet similar. In many ways they are very standard westerns. Both Leaphorn and Longmire are taciturn and stoic strong silent types. Just like the western heroes of Hollywood fame. And like the hero of The Virginian. I had read that book on the occasion of its centenary and because it has become so iconic in that time. (I think the centenary was in 2004 but would have to look it up to make certain.)

Another one here who really liked "The Cold Dish". Just finished Dance Hall of the Dead and liked it a lot better than The Blessing Way. For all the same reasons that have already been mentioned.

I have a copy of Tony Hillerman's memoir Seldom Disappointed that I'm getting rid of. PM me if you're interested.

I hope to start on Dance Hall of The Dead as my next book this weekend. My 2005 paperback copy has an addendum with an excerpt from "Seldom Disappointed" that gives brief origins/explanations of the story ideas in some of the books we are reading.

>162 RBeffa: There are some extras in the ebook as well. I am on chapter 6.

By now I think that most of us have read this novel so I have one question for the group. What did you think of the ending? I admit that it surprised me. I have read some of the later Hillerman novels and this ending was a real surprise. Without spoiling anything I can tell you that this sort of ending is not the norm. I expected some sort of shoot'em up scene but this?

It also seems to me that in the end Leaphorn puts a whole lot of faith in a system that isn't his own in order to see that justice is served. It isn't his religion or the law that he is upholding on which he has placed his trust, so I wonder why he, as a policeman and a Native American, choose to do it that way.

I'm just getting started but I'm liking Dance Hall of the Dead so far, much more than the first one.

Me, too - just getting started but agree with Terri and others who said it is better than the first one.

Have to finish up another book and then I am on it!!

I finished it and really liked it a lot, though not sure what I think of how he ended it.

>166 Crazymamie: & >167 Berly: Come back when you've finished and give us your thoughts please!

>164 benitastrnad: & >168 tymfos: Let's discuss this! I'll use the spoiler function so that I don't give away too much if folks haven't finished the book.

The ending is ...

Not sure what word to use, controversial? Different? Surprising for sure!

I have mixed thoughts about this. For sure Leaphorn knew what would be in store for the murderer when he shared his thoughts with Pasquaanti. He also had no respect for the FBI and knew they would care little about the murders. Their main concern was the drug trafficking.

Leaphorn also tells Isaacs, "I guess you'd say there's an old law that takes precedence over the white man's penal code. It says 'Thou shall not profane the Sacred Ways of the Zuñi.'"

Leaphorn is still a mystery to me so I don't know what to think about his letting this just lie. Of course, there is not much evidence except his word and "knowing" how these things work.

>170 luvamystery65: I like your points in the spoiler, and also your point at the end about the level of proof. Having the murderer be punished outside of the criminal justice system is a tried-and-true trope in mysteries, as I'm sure you know. I can think of several Nero Wolfe mysteries where the guilty party was "encouraged" to commit suicide by Wolfe because he knew there was no evidence to get a conviction. Leaphorn is following along in some big footsteps here.

Oh, I finished it the next day. I liked the ending. Poetic justice, I thought.

The ending sort of bothered me. I am not sure about the justice of it. I think that Leaphorn is really counting very heavily on tradition. My experience is that tradition only holds about so far.

I also found the deep divisions between the two tribes - Zuni and Navajo interesting. It reminded me of the same kind of division in the Longmire book. Remember the disparaging remarks the Cheyenne made about the Sioux? Given the deep divisions between the Navajo and the Zuni I wonder if Leaphorn's faith in the tribal justice system is justified? I think that Leaphorn has his doubts but he trusts more than I would.

Here's my capsule review of Dance Hall which I may polish up a bit and post under the book listing later today. Just finished the last bit this morning. I'll give it three stars.

This is the second in Hillerman's Joe Leaphorn series and was first published in 1973. It is a much stronger book than the first book, "The Blessing Way." In the first book Leaphorn was almost a secondary character, whereas here he is clearly in charge and we follow his investigation into the disappearance of two youths - one probably dead and the other either the guilty party or hiding for fear of losing his life also. In fact it struck me how different Leaphorn was in each book - like perhaps Hillerman decided to make him a stronger character and a different one. There is a nice anthropological element to this story that I liked. There is an underlying current of Zuni vs. Navajo cultural differences and resentment. As far as the mystery goes I'm not sure I can give it high marks. The reason is that by the time page 50 came around I already decided who was responsible for the murder and more or less why. I don't try to puzzle out mysteries as a general rule so it must have been pretty obvious. The ending is a little bothersome and caused me to dislike Leaphorn a bit. Or maybe I was just disappointed in him. Overall an OK read.

So, contrary to most reviews of your reviews, I enjoyed this one less than the first in the series. I guessed the ending and did not feel the beauty of the Zuni ceremony as I wanted to. And none of the characters appealed to me. Joe Leaphorn as a standalone investigator was not much fun. Well! I just talked myself into downgrading this from a 3 to a 2.5!! Also, I didn't think the ending was a copout, but I was expecting it. It was mentioned over and over that no violence was permitted during the Zuni celebration. I am angry with Leaphorn for letting it play out instead of trying to get someone to listen. They might have been able to save George. The best part was the unexpected dart scene. And the moral dilemma Leaphorn left for the anthropologist Isaacs. And I might have been a bigger Susie fan if she had only been a better shot!

I am done ranting now. And looking forward to the Longmire book. : )

>175 Berly: Wow! Ok I think we have come close a couple of times but I do believe this is our first true rant of the thread! I do miss some of our Spenser rants! They were fun. Not enough to read a Spenser a month though. ;-)

Your concerns are valid but I do think that Leaphorn and Pasquaanti are operating from a different value system than we are. So to them justice was served. Not 100% agreed with the idea but that was my interpretation of it. It seems to me also, that no matter what Leaphorn would say, George was going to be lost in the wind unless he wanted to be found. There doesn't appear to be anymore trust in the Tribal Police than there is FBI, Sheriff or any other police force.

LOL. Let's see if my rant is any good at jump-starting more discussion!

I think justice was served in terms of what happened to the murderer. Totally good with that. But it could have gone the "legal" way and George might have been saved.

As to my not loving Leaphorn, he just seemed so disconnected from everyone. The FBI, the anthropologist, the boy he was trying to save. His best link was with Susie and most of the time they spent together, drugs were involved (not saying who took what, when!). Perhaps that is the life of a law enforcement official when investigating cases. But it seemed very lonely.

>177 Berly: As to my not loving Leaphorn, he just seemed so disconnected from everyone. The FBI, the anthropologist, the boy he was trying to save. His best link was with Susie and most of the time they spent together, drugs were involved (not saying who took what, when!). Perhaps that is the life of a law enforcement official when investigating cases. But it seemed very lonely.

I suspect that Leaphorn is a character caught between two worlds. He is definitely not assimilated but he is not traditional either. That does make him disconnected but maybe it's what helps him solve crime better.

For those that have read these books before what do you think?

I had read two maybe three of the Leaphorn novels a long time ago, and thought that I knew Leaphorn a little better than what I have learned of him in the last two novels. I agree with the statement in #178 that Leaphorn is a character caught between two worlds. He is not white and not trusted by his fellow police officers. That might be the result of being in the "tribal" police forces because they aren't the FBI or it might be the fact that he is 100% native american. It is clear to me that his investigative methods are in synch with his Navajo beliefs and not appreciated by police officers with whom he has to work.

I was surprised that the author chose to end the book the way he did given that this is the second title in the series. It is a risk to have his hero do something that might not be what his readers are expecting. It makes the novel more interesting and gives the novel legs in that it is still interesting to the reader of today, but I am not sure that readers back then would have liked it.

As I mentioned in my capsule review, I felt like there were two different Leaphorns for each book. I liked Leaphorn more in the first book. In the second however I liked his real determination to find George and puzzle things out. I also liked the adventure he took with Susie. I rationalized the ending of the 2nd because I thought Leaphorn was really disappointed with himself. I expected a bit more out of the Zuni stuff, but Leaphorn repeatedly let the reader know that he was an outsider to the Zuni mystique as much as anyone. I gave Blessing 2 1/2 stars, Dance Hall 3+. I completely sympathize with Berly's "rant" tho because I was disappointed too.

We have one more book with Joe Leaphorn before we are introduced to Jim Chee. I have been told that Jim Chee is very traditional. It will be an interesting contrast to Joe Leaphorn who is very well versed in the Navajo ways but does not necessarily practice all of them.

I started a new thread for April's book, Death Without Company.

http://www.librarything.com/topic/189510