Are we ready for another shared read?

This time I'd really like to try some 'Classic' Science Fiction.

I'm just throwing out titles here. Some I've read and some I haven't.

The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula Le Guin
Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
The Caves of Steel by Isaac Asimov

Any and all suggestions will be welcome.

Curse those lazy touchstones! I'll come back and edit later, cuz they just aren't doing their thing. :oP

Out of those three, I'd pick the Caves of Steel.

Reasons: Fahrenheit 451 is too full of 'message' - yawn. Left Hand of Darkness is too full of symbolism - yawn.

Caves of Steel is just a mystery with good old fashioned Asimov exposition.

Those were suggestions, not the only choices, PeaBee.
;o)
Don't you have any books to add?

Don't you have any books to add?

Yeah, but that requires thought at 5:15AM - yawn.

Yes, I have other thoughts, but I think Caves of Steel is such a good choice that I don't want to encourage another one.

I would second that Asimov recommendation - I can't remember if I've ever read it but have been in the mood for some classic SF!

I'm on.

I've been meaning to reread The Left Hand of Darkness for the umpteenth time as I want to look for some certain references/similarities. So that one would suit me fine. I'd also enjoy discuss that book with the rest of you!
Last time I read The Caves of Steel was circa 20 years ago but as I liked it back then I'm OK with rereading it.

I do not care for anything by Ray Bradbury. I felt his writing style dated when I first read him in the 70's and recent experiences haven't made me re-evaluate. Feel free to chose this one but I won't join in reading it.

May I offer Asimov's The End of Eternity or
Le Guin's The Dispossessed as alternatives?

*touchstones! gah!*

I'd be keen for The Left Hand of Darkness as I picked up a copy cheaply recently and haven't read it yet... (Plus I'm on a book-buying embargo so really shouldn't buy the Asimov. I suppose I could try mooching it...)

The End of Eternity is Asimov's attempt at a love story - for him - YAWN YAWN YAWN.

Le Guin uses big words that aren't technical in nature - yawn.

Busifer, just stick your tongue out at him.
;o)

Seriously... I'm just keen on Caves of Steel as it is FUN. :)

I vote for The Caves of Steel, but don't have a strong preference.

I've had mixed reactions to the "classic" sci-fi I've read (i.e. didn't really care for Dune, but am nearing the end of Ender's Game and have really been enjoying it). I love Bradbury but Farenheit 451 is probably my least favorite of his stuff. I had to read Left Hand of Darkness for a college writing class, I wonder if I'd like it any more if I were reading for fun.

I've never read any Asimov, so I guess my vote is for Caves of Steel.

OK OK OK!

I'll admit The Dispossessed is a tough one if you don't enjoy her books.
The Left Hand of Darkness is quite slim, though, and could be read without trying to interpret this or that into something or the other while at the same time offering something for those of us who enjoy these symbolisms/tries at discussing society/societal structures.

As for The End of Eternity I just wanted to offer something less obvious.

I'll admit, The End of Eternity is a good read. :D

And I wasn't all serious, Bussy :)

And to Clammy for suggesting it: :P~~~~~~~~~~~

* EDITED to add insulting phrase for Clam.

I'm up for any of the above, although based on my previous experience with Asimov I'll probably be holding my nose the whole time because of his "style." The man had lots of great ideas, but did he ever write a third draft?

Note - The Caves of Steel could function as a starting point for discussions on ethics etc. and so is not solely a "for fun crime novel set in the future". But it's really lightweight compared to just about anything Le Guin ever scribbled on a used napkin ;-)

#12 - Lots of the "classic sf" was written decades ago and both writing styles and prejudices have changed since. A few classics are still "readable", and some of them discusses topics that still are valid. But in many cases that does not make for a good reading experience.
I'm not sure if Ender's game is a classic yet? A modern classic, perhaps.
To me not even Le Guin qualifies as classic - I'm thinking more of Heinlein, Simak, Bester, etc.

*editing to see if touchstones are working again*

Oh. I should have made the above a 2nd post to add to our post count!

Yes, Caves of Steel is very lightweight; that's why I am pushing for it. It's a popcorn book :)

Oh! It's edible, too?

:oP

But of course?! Cellulose is edible, if not digestible. But I'd say that could be said about a lot of eatables ;-)

"Parts of the pine tree are edible..."

Question is - do those parts go into the books?!

I've read Caves of steel fairly recently, so I won't reread it, though I could probably participate in the discussion.

I have copies of booth End of Eternity and Fahrenheit 451 (new acquisition) so I'm more than willing to try them. I've never read Dune but plan to sometime. is 1984 considered classic Sci-Fi? or how about 20000 leagues under the sea, or Heinlein's The cat who walks through walls.

I'm just throwing out titles I have (except Dune) in hopes to work on my TBR pile.

>16 Busifer: I'll admit to playing fast and loose with my personal definition of the word "classic".

Basically, I use it for any book where I've had someone say "Oh, you like science fiction? I can't believe you haven't read __________ yet!" :) Dune, Heinlein, Philip K. Dick, Ender's Game, Asimov, Bradbury, and LeGuin have all been put in that blank. (Well, not so much Bradbury, since I read his stuff before anyone ever got the chance to ask.)

Of the ones recommended The Left Hand of Darkness is on my TBR Next list.

For Asimov, I'd prefer to read I, Robot.

A classic on my TBR Next list is The Forever War by Joe Halderman.

A recommendation from my TBR Soon list is Childhood's End by Clarke

Uck, touchstones are NOT loading.

Yes, the touchstone are on vacation this morning, apparently.
:o/

touchstones dead all day. So is search. :-(

Read: SIMAK mentioned above, I'd find this more fun than Asimov, where there's little to say other than when did you guess what the ending was going to be ...

Simak's a classic, short, full of meaning, and can really make you think. might be hard to find these days?

I like that we are doing a classic. As much as I enjoyed seeing an author comment on his/her book, I felt uncomfortable making any comments. This way I can be as nice or as mean as I want to be without worrying about someone's feelings. :)

I'm afraid I won't be up for this one. I'm still trying to get through Hell's Chasm. For some reason I've been very slow.

I guess its all those real life issues getting in the way!

23&4: I have a terrible confession to make about Dune. I got to the end of the first part and basically had a throwing it across the room type reaction :-( I'd been really enjoying it up til then, and I feel like I should finish it (this was only February...)

Maybe I should vote for Dune... at least then I can talk to people about why I got angry and book-throwy (but not actually book-throwy, because I'm too obsessional about keeping my books pretty. Tragic, eh?) Would mean I have to finish it though. My husband does say it's worth it and so many people seem to think it's amazing...

I'll skip out on this one. I'm not a fan of science fiction despite multiple attempts and I'm very busy now that I'm back at school. Sorry everyone!

#30 - I hated Dune. I also hated The Left Hand of Darkness (despite loving the four books of Earthsea I've read). Like I said, I'm not a science fiction person.

#15 As to "Did Asimov ever write a third draft" - the truth is - he rarely wrote a SECOND draft. His skill was in writing competently, if not with great satisfying flair, the first time through. Then, he moved on to his next project. How else could he have published 100s of books on so many subjects?

The world gave him no encouragement to do anything different. If he got a rejection, he sent the work to another publisher, and they usually accepted. And after a certain point, people published whatever it was he wrote.

I haven't read any classic scifi in decades, but I do have A Canticle for Lebowitz on my TBR. I'd be wiling to read the Asimov or LeGuin or a different Bradbury. 451 is tired.

How about Old Man's War? It's about senior citizens trained to kill!

#27 - reading_fox, what the hell is SIMAK? LOL

#25 - I could reread Childhoods End; I haven't read it in ages and it would be interesting to see what I'd think of it today.

#35 - Should be WHO the hell is Simak ;-)
(Clifford D, to be precise)

*still no touchstones*

Ahhh! Thanks, Busifer. I thought it was an acronym for one of the books we're discussing! (Such as LHoD and CoS)

#35 if only search or touchstones was working you'd be able to find his author page ...

106 works listed on LT. wiki says three hugo's and 1 nebula plus GrandMaster. Apparently he is an american author. i always thought he was easten European, like Stanislaw Lem who could be another option.

I wouldn't know which Simak to choose though, City might not be a bad choice?

Stranger in a Strange Land might be good, I think it's a sci-fi book...

Or maybe not. The LT page on it sez it's HORRIBLE...

I love Lem, never heard of Simak....

I'm up for whatever. OK, maybe I'd give Heinlein a pass.

Ok, maybe something like Neuromancer?

#39 - I haven't read anything by him since I was in my early teens and back then (I now think) he was too complicated for me and so nothing much registered. So, no suggestions from me.

Oooh, Nineteen Eighty Four is really good!

To bolster the claims for city - it's got talking dogs, intelligent ants, ghosts, robots, nursery rhymes, and deep meaningful social comment, it is also short.

Wahey! touchstones for books worked. Until I tried to edit in 'ghosts' when the touchstone just died. Like about the authors.

Here's a touchstone. The Caves of Steel.

I wouldn't mind City either. I've read 1984 and SiaSL far too recently to read them again.

City sounds good (the one by Clifford D. Simak, not the one by Alastair Reynolds). But I am not sure I can get it in time since the local English science fiction pusher dosn't have it.
I would second Ursula K. Le Guin's The Dispossessed. It's the only Hainish cycle book I have I haven't been able to work my way through, so it would be great to get 'forced'.

Trying to come up with some title that strike me as 'classic' in the sense described above I would suggest
Geoff Ryman - Air, or, Have not have. Mentioned in a 'classic' thread.
Gene Wolfe - Claw of the Conciliator. Since it is part of a series it might not be a good idea as a shared read, though.
John Wyndham The Day of the Triffids - flesh eating plants and biological warfare, oh my:-)
It sdosn't get more classic than Jules Verne, does it?
James H. Schmitz - all I know of him is The Lion Game, Telzey Amberdon, The Universe Against Her
Theodore Sturgeon - More Than Human. Maybe only a classic b/c I read it at a very impressionable age?

I'd put in a vote for almost any of the classics above. Maybe not Left Hand of Darkness cause I had to write an icky paper on it in college (bad memories) but I'd read something else by LeGuin (Wizard of Earthsea perhaps?).

Otherwise I would love to have a good reason (i.e. discussion group) to dive into Dune or pretty much anything by Asimov.

Phillip K. Dick was just added to the Library of America Series. I think that makes him classic. I would love to read some of his works. I have a few, but have not gotten past the first chapter in any of them.

I think it would be a good idea to steer clear of any author/book that any of you can't 'make' yourself read on your own.

The whole point is to pick something FUN and ENJOYABLE. Not something that feels like work.

Simak's City is fun, but it's a collection of connected shorts rather than a novel. That's not necessarily bad, but I think it's good to know what we're getting into. The other one of his I know is Way Station, which is also quite good.

I would greatly enjoy hearing other's thoughts on A Canticle for Leibowitz, one of my favorites from a zillion years ago, but I'd also enjoy reading somethig new. Flexible people are frustrating sometimes, huh?

I hated Canticle and could never see the attraction.

I'm still voting for Caves of Steel. I suggest Clam decide and we'll all read along or not...

Well we usually take a couple of days to babble a bit before we vote.

Heinlein has popped up a few times, but I would argue against Stranger in a Strange Land. It is the one Heinlien book I strongly dislike. Personal opinion is to fully appreciate The Cat Who Walks Through Walls you need to have read other Heinlein works. So the Heinlein title that I would suggest would be The Moon is a Harsh Mistress. No prior Heinlein reading necessary and a really good "classic" sci-fi read.

People seem mixed on Dune, how about a different work by Herbert, The Jesus Incident. A synopsis from wikipedia: "The book takes place following the events in Destination: Void where the crew of "The Tin Egg" has succeeded in their attempts to create an artificial consicousness. Instead of creating a "rogue consciousness," as had been the case with the original Earth-bound experiments, the crew created an omnipotent artificial being known as Ship. Ship effectively becomes a deity, and immediately transports itself and the crew to a planet known as Pandora.

The planet Pandora is highly inhospitable, leaving the colonists deposited there in a constant battle with their environment. The novel opens with the awakening of Raja Flattery, who has been in long hibernation since the completion of Ship's consciousness, and who is therefore aware of the origins of Ship, as well as the fact that all of the occupants of the original mission were clones of scientists from the Moonbase which conducted the experiment. The planet-bound colonists have been led to believe (by Ship) that they are not clones, and that they are superior to the clones which they themselves have created in attempts to better adapt to Pandora's environment.

Ship informs Flattery that for centuries the humans have failed to learn how to WorShip him. He tasks Flattery with intervening in the society which has developed on Pandora to solve this riddle of WorShip, or else Ship will destroy all of humanity under his control.

The book deals with concepts such as Artificial Intelligence, worship and the inherent problems of totalitarian systems. Clones and genetic engineering take up themes of racism."

I've never read Destination: Void and at the time that I originally read this book was not aware that a book preceded The Jesus Incident. Not having read Destination: Void did not have any affect on reading TJI. I haven't read it in about a decade, but remember really liking it.

Otherwise I have not read any Le Guin or Asimov so would be happy with a title by either.

Agree. Some one must set down the proverbial foot!

Well, at some point I'll throw out another thread with a few more choices, and we can stick to picking from those.

Oh, and I don't think Stranger in a Strange Land will have aged too well, but I could be wrong.

I couldn't read SIASL again without thinking of those creepy Church of All Worlds folks. We might as well read Dianetics.

I recently bought Fahrenheit 451 because of all the talk about it, now you guys say it's boring. Great. Anyway, I have that one, I probably won't join on any sci-fi I have to buy unless my husband wants it, he's the sci-fi fan in this house.
I just finished When Worlds Collide, which is classic, but I think it would make most of you mad. I guess if you felt like ripping on someone, that would be a target. ;)

All in all I advice against Heinlein. Not even (?) his YA stuff has aged with grace...
And as Clam said - the read should be fun & enjoyable!

Here's a decent list, if anyone is interested.

http://home.austarnet.com.au/petersykes/topscifi/lists_books_rank1.html

Well, if we're going to consider Heinlein, how about Starship Troopers (which could lead to some interesting comparisons with the news these days) or The Puppet Masters? Or both, since they're both short.

>61 MrsLee:: I don't think Fahrenheit 451 is boring at all! I read it in one sitting, but then, it's short. I think you should really give it a shot.

Thank you Thalia. :) I will try it, if for no other reason than to know what everyone is talking about.

How are we going to decide this?

In the Quaker tradition we work on a consensus basis, which may be impossible here, but there are some fairly good principles at work.

When making decisions we have 3 options: For, Stand out of the way, Stand in the way.

"Stand out of the way" means "This is not something I would chose to do, but if everyone else seems to be for it, then I won't object."

"Stand in the way" means "I will not support this decision" which means we dont act on it.

Can I suggest we use this as we discuss.

For example, some of you may really want to participate, but NOT if we read certain books. You can use the Stand in the Way.

Some of you may participate, or may not. You dont want your reactions to negate a decision. Or, you may not LIKE the book, but you will read it if everyone else so chooses. You can Stand Out of the Way.

And some of you really like certain books, so you are for it.

From what I have gathered so far, there seems to be Stand in the Way responses to SiaSL, and Fahrenheit 451.

Do you find this helpful?

Also, given Madeline L'engle's recent death, maybe something by her?

Well, I'll include something of hers when we get to the 'narrow down the choices' phase, Arctic. The thing is I've only read A Wrinkle in Time and I wasn't terribly impressed. Does anyone who is familiar with her work know a book that won't seem so dated?

>60 littlegeek:

AHEM!

Morphy, you're not CAW, are you? Ooops, sorry......I'm really sticking my foot in it today. Must stop posting.....

I call Stand in the Way of consensus processing. I'd rather submit to PB's tyranny.

I'm a Stand Out of the Way. I will participate if the book chosen suits me, but do not want to be a deciding factor, because I'm O.K. not participating too.

I 'stand in the way' of Madeline L'Engle... primarily because I agree with Clam... whatever we read should be fun and enjoyable and light. I do not want to read something that is allegorical; I do not want to read something that contains 'social significance'. I do not want to read something that speculates on anything at all, or wrestles or deals with any particular concept or has undertones of shaded meaning, or gives me a greater understanding of the spiritual.

I just want to take all of you by the hand, as it were (with a book) do the equivalent of running outside and playing on the swingset. That's why I like Clam's idea of classic SF so much. At its truly best... that's what it does... it lets our minds have recess :)

I bow to the wisdom of the Peebster. Plus, I agree. The mystery/scifi option is looking better & better.

>70 Morphidae: No, not CAW, but close enough as to make no nevermind.

I wasn't offended. It was a friendly nudge in the ribs.

;)

#73, So then we'll all say, that was fun, what's next? I'd rather discuss something with a little something to it. Not some heavy allegory (no War in Heaven, thank you very much), but no Podkayne of Mars either.

Looks like someone want to join in with my husband - right now he's watching/listening at at DVD with some Rolling Stones concert from 1969, lots of hippies ;-)

Edited later for choice of words...

I'm up for a re-read of Dune or pretty much anything else, sans Madeleine L'Engle.

>73 JPB: Is there any good sci-fi that doesn't contain any of those things you mentioned? What are these worlds of the impossible or improbable for if not to show our own world through a funhouse mirror?

I agree with Jim - some depth is preferable.
That said I don't think The Left Hand of Darkness is overly "deep"...

Well, for full bore space opera, it don't get much better than Doc Smith's Lensman series. Doesn't hurt that the main character's name is almost the same as mine!

#75 Thank the goddess, I'm so glad to hear you say that! And thanks for the friendly reminder....

I vote for Left Hand.

Or Caves of Steel.

I wouldn't reread A Wrinkle in Time, or tackle any of the others in the same series. I'd be leery of anything by Asimov, (Foundation really put me off him), but I might give it a go if I could find a copy at the library and if it were short enough. I don't think I'd mind a reread of Dune; it's been ten years now since I read it, and I remember really enjoying it until right near the end.

But how about some really classic sci fi? Edgar Rice Burroughs, anyone? It'd be interesting to compare how Burroughs's brand of science fiction differs from more recent approaches to the genre.

So, xicanti, we talkin' John Carter? Barsoom? (gesundheit). I haven't looked at those in decades, and I don't remember there being much to them, but I'd be willing if others wanna.

I know I'm late here! I'd vote for Caves of Steel or really anything by Asimov. I think Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury is incredible so I'd be up for that one also. Of course, this does fall under the "teaching a lesson" category that many want to avoid. Rendezvous with Rama by Arthur C. Clarke and the sequels are good. I think the 2nd and 3rd books are the best, but I'm sure we don't want to get into sequels. I could go on forever!

Basically, I'll read whatever! Someone just TELL me what to read! :)

Going back to post #54 - I'm with Morphy. I didn't care for A Canticle for Leibowitz at all. I read it, but it was difficult.

#84 Jim53 - I think Burroughs' value in a discussion like this would be more as a comparison piece. The genre's changed a lot since he started writing. There are some interesting Utopian/dystopian themes in some of his books, though; I recall that they came through most prominently in the Venus series.

Dune would be fine too, although I am not picky and will happily give "whatever" we end up with a try. It is just fun to have found people who know there is more to SF than Star Trek (nothing against ST!!)

#84 we could go back to Jules Verne - again deciding on a specific work would be tricky.

Kate Wilhelm: Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang... excellent post-apocalypse treatment of genetic manipulation and its "cost" on "society"

But, I would go with Caves of Steel, or Dune (first book only), or The Stars, My Destination, or Mission of Gravity by Hal Clement, or Forever War, or ... as well.

Clamairy, as the initiator of this thread, I believe that it is your responsibility to pick three or four books as potential group reads, and then call the question. Those that do not like the results can start the next thread.

IMHO, that is. :)

Hi every one, I'm back....

I'd like to read something shorter than Dune as I like being a part of the discussion and sometimes can not finish the book in time to get in on it. I'd rather not go too far back....Tarzan???? Twenty thousand leagues under the sea???? They would be short, but way too dated for an interesting conversation. I can hear it now, "what was he thinking"?

OK, I am ready for the short list. Thanks, Clam, for getting this going.

(edit for book reference correction)

No opinion here. I've only read ~dozen books that might be considered Science Fiction, so, it's a blindspot for me. I'm looking forward to whatever gets chosen. Here are a couple I own but haven't read, just ideas:

Something Wicked this Way Comes - Ray Bradbury
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy - Douglas Adams

Caves of Steel works for me...me not so big fan LeGuin, as Trog say... As for Fahrenheit 451 - eh, not so much to my liking... My personal fave would be The Goblin Reservation by Simak (Clifford D.).