"This is going to be something that's really amazing"

Donald Trump's biggest draw is perhaps the claim to great business acumen, the art of the deal. This article just popped up and speaks to his brilliance in business, or perhaps brilliance in self promotion.

His voters think he is rogue like Sarah Palin, business savvy like Warren Buffett, and tell it like it is as no other.

This article speaks to recent businesses for which he used his name to lure believers. I suspect like those who will support him even if he shoots some one.

The statements in the story sound like his campaign statements.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/trump-leaves-trail-of-loss-regret-quest...

I remember another business start up he had, in mortgage lending. There was a big start up and little after that.

If I were going to debate Trump, I think the weakness is in his claimed strength, a reputation for business. I am a little leery of his business acumen and reputation.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/despite-bankruptcies-trump-defends-his-record-in-atl...

It might be more instructive to read a financial site on this subject.

• How Did Donald Trump Get So Rich:
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/08/07/industry-focus-financials-08-03...

• How Donald Trump Became an American Billionaire Icon
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/10/25/how-donald-trump-became-an-amer...

• What Is Donald Trump's Net Worth?
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/08/01/what-is-donald-trumps-net-worth...

• 3 Money Lessons Donald Trump Can Teach You
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/08/30/3-money-lessons-donald-trump-ca...

barney67

What is your take on Trump's net worth and his business skills.

It looks like he has played personality, risk and bankruptcy very well.

I saw another report that he has made less than he might have with simple stock investments.

http://www.moneytalksnews.com/why-youre-probably-better-investing-than-donald-tr...

http://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/090215/how-donald-trump-be...

I am having some trouble finding him anything other than a lying self promoter who has had business dealings with many people who were burned by trusting his promises.

Based on what I read at The Motley Fool, Trump knows how to get government to fund his projects. That hardly makes him an outsider in politics or anything else. Who's more of an insider than Trump?

He promised to restore a building into a profitable hotel if the government of NY (I guess) waived property taxes for x number of years. A good deal, a big risk. He did it. Just those external facts suggests he knew what he was doing. But I don't know the details beyond that, of how the work actually got done and everything else that is involved in making a hotel successful. I really know almost nothing about the business world. I maintain, I hope, a healthy skepticism balanced with realism. Terrible things sometimes benefit many people other than shady bosses.

I don't know enough detail to determine whether Trump's business acumen is something I admire. As someone with Italian blood, I find it hard to believe that Trump has had no dealings with certain swarthy characters in New York and New Jersey, among other places. A prejudice of mine, no doubt, based in part on the history of construction, real estate, and waste management. And the concrete business.

And gambling. It always floors me when a casino can't make a profit. Casinos are "rigged" so that the house always wins. Even in craps, the odds are against you in the long run and in favor of the casino. All those games favor the house. You can go and have a good time. But if you want to make money in the long run, the odds are against you.

Add to this the cheap immigrant labor, or illegal immigrant labor, the high room costs. I'm not sure how a casino can lose money unless it was a huge, megalomaniac project to begin with, like the Belaggio and the other giants that roam Vegas strip.

Regardless, there's a lot more to being president than the ability to make money in real estate. I've never been a Trump fan. For decades I've thought the guy is a douchebag.

I'm not interested in how much money Trump has. As soon as you get into the billions, money ceases to have value, more or less.

Except: Trump says that because he has his own money, he can't be bought off. Maybe. But like I said, there's a lot more to the presidency than that.

I would vote for anyone but Trump, Clinton, or Sanders. It will probably be Trump v. Clinton. I don't know what I'm going to do. I suspect I will not vote. I never thought I would be in this position. I really am repulsed by both of them.

You and I are in the same boat as far a the vote.

Except, the current line up, all inclusive, has me excluded.

I might write in barney67.

I guess Trump's not showing up to this Republican debate tonight because one time Megyn Kelly asked him a question that he didn't like. Sounds like the makings of a great diplomat.

My opinion on Trump ? Trump is not a stupid man...he is dumb like a fox. What Trump is , is a mirror on the face of America.

Think of some of the things he has said......
When asked about his bankruptcies and the unfairness of a system that would allow him to do what he does ?

"I used the American legal system to do it "

Building giant walls and making other countries pay for it. Mexico ? Seriously ? We took everything from Mexico that has value and are now supplying weapons so they are killing each other off over the one thing coming through the country that does pay off. He knows that.

Muslim hate ? Trump does business world wide.....he has interest in Dubai...he doesn't hate or mistrust Muslims.

Shoot someone and not lose a vote. Indeed...it is true.... VERY sick but true. Trump would run at a shooter shooting back ? BS....he has spoken out against gun control in the past. He is NOT stupid.

Women's rights ? He is sexist, married three times but you better believe he is happy about birth control and abortion rights or he would probably have a flock of kids by now.

Every nasty thing he says has a point, every idiotic stance he has claimed is pointing out the stupidity that has become part of our society.....and not just society but our government...our lawmakers lost their marbles and decided to "hate" on each other rather than do their jobs. And enough American's cheered them on so that they still have jobs.

What if Trump's entire set up is a giant show ? He doesn't want to be President......he is holding up a mirror to our faces. The picture is not pretty.

The Fox News debacle was my eye opener.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/view-how-trump-bungled-the-deal-of-a-life...

"Losing the Yards also deprived Trump of bragging rights. When the reality TV show “The Apprentice” debuted in 2004, it featured Trump telling viewers that he was the “largest real estate developer in New York.” By any real estate measure -- square footage or value -- this simply wasn’t true (and it’s still not true today). Trump had become a major personality, but he wasn’t New York’s top developer."

>9 richardbsmith:

Trump can flip flop, bungle, disparage everyone and everything. He can talk stupid crude and nasty, evoke Ms Palin and decide when he wants to show up or not show up. He is free to operate at will. It doesn't matter.....as long as he is "against others" he will be fine.

What does it matter what a man says when he could possibly hold the office of President anyway. It simply doesn't matter who he is or what he says. Whether it is an act or if he is sincere. Enough American's are crass enough, selfish enough and stupid enough to think he is a "good idea". Seriously, what does it matter ? Lack of education, critical thinking , a moral compass and personal responsibility is at an all time high....so you have your Trump.

Obama........Trump. Think of the difference between these two...in deportment and speech only. Obama has been literally HATED for who he is.......why would the haters not embrace a Trump ? Trump is everything Obama is not. I think Trump is well aware of this and is making a fool of the Conservative base. That is what I think

Trump is a mirror of a segment of American values goes astray. A pretty big segment judging by his standing in the polls.

Where did the Republicans go?

infrastructure, investment, limited government, conservation, free enterprise meaning trust busting, limited wars, progressive society-freedom and equality

>11 richardbsmith:" Where did the Republicans go?"

Good question.

As much as a Republican would hate to admit it...Conservatism only works as far as what is good for the social welfare of all.

When infrastructure, due to a larger population, became a social issue...it fell by the way side....

Investment ? A joke since The justice system in our country is more focused on arresting young Black men in possession of a doobie then holding to account those who are playing fast and loose with our money.

limited government ONLY when it does not interfere with creating laws to limit faith based beliefs and freeing gun owners from the nasty business of having to be responsible before owning a deadly weapon.

Conservation......I truly haven't met many Conservatives who are conservative in their own actions....I mean on a personal level. I am dead serious on this.

free enterprise......only works when one refuses to be "bought out". Don't see much of that either. Free enterprise is dependent on long term thinking. Who is thinking long term any more ?

Limited wars.....Hahahahahahahaha

Progressive society ? Please ! If they could they would all go back to the 50's. Progress demands change. Somehow the idea of "change" became much like the idea of pouring water on a gremlin.....

Equality.....never going to happen cause nobody works as hard as I do so I have more coming. I earned everything I have. Pull yourself up by your boot straps. "What"? "You say that I have your boots ?" "Must have made better choices than you did" "Sorry about that"

Republicans went the way of the ego.

Maybe a better question is

WHY did the Republicans go ?

I am a Republican who holds all those ideas.

We must not have met. : )

My opinion on Trump ? Trump is not a stupid man...he is dumb like a fox. What Trump is , is a mirror on the face of America.

I want to see the best in people, and not see evil in opponents. I disagree with Obama or Sanders on some issues, but I recognize they want many of the same things I do. Either way, I know they have a coherent and plausible idea of the good. Even Ted Cruz, whose ideology is legitimately dangerous, has an idea of the good that deserves some respect.

I don't feel the same way about Trump. I detect no real ideals underneath it all, but only opportunism, egom vanity, hostility and pride. If he has an idea of the good, it boils down to "everything would be better if I were in charge."

Do I hate him? I try not to hate anyone. So I hope not. But I don't merely hate his politics; I think he himself is the problem.

>14 timspalding:
" If he has an idea of the good, it boils down to "everything would be better if I were in charge."

It is my opinion that this attitude is pretty much that of those who support him as well. Part of being a strong person is recognizing one's weaknesses, weakness is not something that is allowed in today's political atmosphere. Nor does one need to explain how it is one would make everything better. They've just been going about trying to make everything the "other" person does look horrible.

", but only opportunism, egom vanity, hostility and pride."

How has the Right wing governed any different than this since 2008 ? I grew up in a Republican home.....the values I learned as a kid are often conservative values but I can recognize dysfunction and obstruction when I see it. I am not sure how the party went so far off the rails. The most obvious reason is to follow the money but even at that, one would think that enough people care about the future of their children to think outside of the Republican talking points and see how much fear mongering and lack of forward motion their party has embraced. When did making up one's own truth become acceptable ? When did saying "NO", even though it may be cutting off the nose to spite the face, become a way to deal with governing a diverse nation ? When did acts of aggression translate to the "rights" of people or nations, and are viewed as acts of strength and individuality?

Trump is a mirror to all of that.

He used America in everyway possible for self enrichment. He feels he deserves that right as an American He has the "right" to feel hostile when threatened and enough wealth to insulate himself from any consequences should he act on that hostility (any different than the U.S.A. ?) He doesn't see himself as having to be accountable to anyone but himself.

I don't know the man personally, don't know what may be in his head or his heart but he has successfully hit on every single selfish, self serving, fear based talking point and/or issue that has stuck in the craw of many Americans, those American's whose vision of this country is that things would be so much better if they were in charge. Forget the fact that they wouldn't have a clue how to get there..... it simply doesn't much matter anymore.

". But I don't merely hate his politics; I think he himself is the problem."

How can he possibly be the problem by himself when he leads all Republican polls ? The problem is so much bigger than Trump.

How can he possibly be the problem by himself when he leads all Republican polls ? The problem is so much bigger than Trump.

No question. And indeed we should worry about his appeal to independents and even the "Sanders-Trump" contingent.

What is the 'Sanders-Trump' contingent?

Building on what Tim said, I see Trump and Clinton as empty shells. I'm not always sure what they believe because it changes so often. They seem not to have an identity that persists from day to day. They are often re-creating themselves. They're too slippery to admire. Too unpredictable.

"largest real estate developer in New York"
Trump could have meant anything when he said "large." Large name recognition.

Large hair.

ETA: "day to day"

>17 RickHarsch:

People who are angry and hurting, appreciate "straight," forceful talk, and want the insiders and crooks out—but are ideologically ignorant, naive or unfocused.

New Republic, "What Explains the Trump-Sanders Crossover Vote?" by Elizabeth Brunei
https://newrepublic.com/article/127442/explains-trump-sanders-crossover-vote

“Voters who were on the fence between the seemingly polar opposite candidates said both communicated well with working-class people and made strong cases for how they would improve the economy,” The New York Times reported from Vermont last week, observing the odd phenomenon of voters who consider the two candidates quite comparable. In the words of one voter: “Bernie is my No. 1 choice, and Trump is No. 2. They’re not that different.”

Etc.

Garrison Keillor had a fun take on Trump's proposed wall. Talking to a California audience, he tells them "You don't need a WALL--you need an AQUADUCT (from Lake Superior)." He added something to effect that Mexico probably would pay for it, too, if some of the water went their way!

Jurisdictions on the Great Lakes are preparing defenses against such raids, but Keillor's joke did remind that rabble-rousing doesn't focus on some of the real threats facing our country. A wall is not top on our list of infrastructure needs!

#19--I'm old enough to remember when Sanders became mayor of Burlington Vt.

Back in the early 90's I used to watch C-Span quite a lot when Bernie was a congressman. I pretty much got to the point where I could recognize and put names to practically everybody in the House and the Senate the instant I laid eyes on them. Bernie was in maybe my top 10 favorites way back then--though I have to say that back then there were even some republicans I liked. The debates over Nafta and the Gingrich revolution which quickly followed on that did a lot to change my particular outlook on a lot of these individuals and on how things or some things got done.

Since that time Sanders has been consistently on point. He's never wavered on his message--he's held to his beliefs and acted in accordance with them. The way he's run his current presidential campaign has been a breath of fresh air--no Wall St or big donor money--no SuperPac money. Not a whiff of the corrupt. He's proven that a presidential campaign can be run contrary to the preconceived notions that most everyone had prior. As well there are ideas and possibilities presented by his campaign that if not immediately conceivable still would make us a nation with common targets and goals to strive for---something that's been missing for a long time. Instead of 'Oh, that's not possible'---it's 'maybe or yes we can'. Whatever--great societies have goals that are common to the people who live within those societies.

You should stop playing psychologist--'People who are angry and hurting'---blah, blah, blah. It really is nonsense. I don't like Hillary and I don't like Trump. So fucking what? It doesn't mean I need to go see a shrink. I do like Bernie. That does not make me angry or hurting---thank you very much for the concern though. If anything even if Hillary were to prevail over Bernie I'm looking at what's happened at least on the Democratic side as something that has been very very positive--that makes me optimistic about the future. Beyond what's going on for the cameras--I see movements and trends below the surface that are pushing candidates in this direction or that--forcing and challenging them to go maybe to places they're maybe not so comfortable but even so--I see our population in the future demanding a lot more from their political representatives. As I see it things are shifting and for the better and outcomes will eventually too.

I look at the youngest voters. This is going to be their world. They seem to me to be the most dissatisfied with the status quo. People who want to see their country begin to reflect their values. They don't look at the term 'socialist' as a pejorative. This is something you Tim need to get into your noggin. Sanders is the politician that by far they flock to the most. They look at our current government and it's leaders as more than less corrupt--to put it another way the congress--the president manipulate outcomes. They're not interested really in fairness--justice. The perception is they don't give the people what they ask for. Naive? Sure. But all in all IMO this analysis is the correct one.

>7 weener:

Donald Trump is the only person, ever, to make me take the side of Fox News. That's an amazing accomplishment.

>8 faceinbook:

Muslim hate ? Trump does business world wide.....he has interest in Dubai...he doesn't hate or mistrust Muslims.

***

What if Trump's entire set up is a giant show ?

Precisely. If Trump is going to enter into a business deal with someone, and he thinks he can get the better end of the bargain, does anybody really think he gives a shit if that person is Jewish, Christian, Muslim, atheist, or whatever? He is just manipulating people's personal prejudices for his own gain. Disgusting. Hardly unprecedented, but still disgusting.

>11 richardbsmith:
>13 richardbsmith:

Either we define words differently or you are a very exceptional Republican, my friend. :)

I would be not be surprised if there are some Republicans here on LT who support investment in our society, infrastructure, limited government, progressive social movements, conservation of resources, and restriction of monopolies.

I think I have seen them post.

Not all of us want a wall built to protect our borders. (That actually sends shivers down my spine.)

I would prefer more open entry to the US. And I don't think I am the only Republican who thinks that.

>23 richardbsmith:

I am sincerely glad to hear that. It gives me hope.

>23 richardbsmith:

I'm largely on board with you here, although there are things under "investment in our society" and "progressive social movements" we might disagree on. I'd add "respect science."

I don't know how you feel about "stop genocide in Syria and Iraq" and "end illegal government surveillance."

My list was not exhaustive. : )

>25 timspalding:

Alas, neither Democrats nor Republicans are really against government surveillance. Certainly Obama, having opposed it, did nothing but increase it.

Surveillance is scary to me. I am not sure what is advanced in the direction of security and what is risked in the direction of privacy.

I am sure that I don't trust the discretion or judgement of those spying.

No government is going to slow down information gathering. It is too powerful a mechanism for control.

We need to realize that if we put something out there - email, FB or LT post, purchase - whatever - Big Brother knows. : )