De la politesse

I suppose that Montaigne wrote some essay on politeness--I see that he wrote, "la politesse coûte peu et achète tout," politeness costs little and (literally) 'buys all, '" --but I haven't made a study of it.

Instead of exhausting my views here in this introduction on the contemporary use and abuse of standards of polite behavior--especially in speech and in writing, the freedom of which we're supposed to cherish and defend as a primary principle of political freedom--I'll elaborate them in my comments in the thread.

Suffice it here to say that, today, as in former periods, claims for what's called polite speech now do as much, if not more, to serve vile and dishonest motives as to serve anything worthy.

If too little or nothing at all in politeness is socially dangerous and destructive, then so, too, I think, is the raising up of politeness as a supposed virtue that is allowed to trump all others--even honesty and fair-play.

Many a cheat and a liar have no trouble at all behaving with the utmost in polite speech and gesture.

We've greatly over-valued the real and over-imagined benefits of politessse and this is now doing us much real harm.

That is my thesis here.

Mr Trump represents the cultural vulgarity of the nouveau riche. However, his buffoonish bombast is that of the political demagogue from the gutter. He's the American Berlusconi, the Falstaff of Park Avenue. This makes him a soft target for any rational politician.

And yet, for a man who tells it like it is, he's remarkably inconstant and disingenuous.

>2 theoria: Mr Trump represents the cultural vulgarity of the nouveau riche.

He also reminds me of two colleagues with boarding school backgrounds. One at least had an overbearing, often absent, father. I asked a retired headmaster if my colleagues were typical and he allowed that for some of his students, boarding school was the most reliable, nurturing aspect of their early lives. Small sample, I realize!

Can we point to Donald Trump's upbringing as the source of any dysfunction.

What of his sister?

I think concerns and fallout from Trump University will overcome the email problems of Clinton.

Some might be happy with one or the other candidate. For me, the candidates seem to get worse each cycle.

Can we point to Donald Trump's upbringing as the source of any dysfunction.

What of his sister?

I think concerns and fallout from Trump University will overcome the email problems of Clinton.

Some might be happy with one or the other candidate. For me, the candidates seem to get worse each cycle.

(Sorry about the double post. I think I may need a new mouse.)

Let's keep in mind that few American even know what nouveau riche means.And that most Americans aspire to be the nouve riche. America itself is nouveau riche.

Let's also keep in mind that few Americans care all that much about manners, and that many people positively despise them – and proud of it.

And, loudmouthed New Yorker. And, spoiled child. And, Barnum & Bailey. And, TV. And, democracy. And, politics.

>8 barney67: "Let's also keep in mind that few Americans care all that much about manners, and that many people positively despise them – and proud of it."

In other words, they make a virtue of necessity.

This is fun. Theoria and barney generally agree here. As do I.

Not saying it will last, or should last. But worth pointing out. Ah, June.

Not necessarily. I don't know that they (whoever they are) act with necessity in mind. I'm not sure they have anything in mind.

One can win the presidency without acting like Trump. It's been done. To people who think you have to act like him to win I have nothing to say. I'm not a huge fan of democracy.

Briefly: All those crap shows on TV? Someone watches them, wants them, otherwise they wouldn't be there. And movies, music, franchise food, lousy airplanes, ticket prices, sports corrption. Lowest common denomintor stuff driven by money and little else. Do mush-heads run the world? Maybe.

Disliking this state of affairs doesn't make me an elitist, a word that doesn't have much meaning at all anymore. It makes me anti-egalitraian, anti-democratic, when it comes to some things.

Look, if you haven't see the movie Idiocracy yet, you really should.

Briefly: All those crap shows on TV? Someone watches them, wants them, otherwise they wouldn't be there. And movies, music, franchise food, lousy airplanes, ticket prices, sports corruption.

I'm reminded of Kakonomics.

https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10993

Then again, if it's an outcome that pleases both parties, is it low quality?

A person once told me that the minimum is good enough, or it would not be the minimum.

For somethings and for some persons the minimum is at a higher level than for other things and other persons.

Montaigne had an upper class/aristocratic outlook on the world. There's a lot of contempt that comes with that--always looking down on the 'lower' strata of human society. I really don't care for the hierarchical outlooks that most people seem to have.

FWIW I've always looked at the 'f' word as extremely pliable. It has almost infinite contexualities and variables. It's also great for more direct and blunt speech.

Pretty much being uneducated and working class I don't feel the need to be too cute in language. The way politicians---the media will parse things--I don't care for that at all. I'm not good at all at schmoozing. I can yak at someone for a little while but then I need some space. I've never sat down to watch 'Friends' or 'The Simpsons'--I've avoided shit like Star Wars my entire life--so I'm lacking in a lot of cultural signifiers. There are all kinds of jokes that will go right over my head or that I won't find the slightest bit of humor in and you won't find me laughing even if everyone is. Roberto Arlt is on my profile page for a reason. One of the greatest writers of all time and very few have heard of him but he and the characters he drew up pretty much encapsulate a lot of the above.

There are of course cultural signifiers and cultural SIGNIFIERS, and as any Lame Whore or Melancholy Ruffian could tell you some islands are profundities.

#15--aka Hipolita and Haffner.....but also the Astrologer is a fantastic character. Erdosain kills his underage girlfriend and then shoots himself in the heart in a subway train. Between the Seven Madmen and The Flamethrowers it's a really wild ride. All the Astrologer's plans to overthrow the government break down and his house in Temperley goes up in flames but he and the Lame Whore (Hipolita) escape together.

I've never been able to find a translation of The Flamethrowers.

Anyway, your signifier tells me that you have pondered the question At what precise moment did Peru fuck itself up; and have come to distance yourself from Dr. Diaz Grey; have made some of the same choices as Artemio Cruz; imagined crossing two planks that meet above a street in Buenos Aires; maybe even pondered the horrors of the imbunche!

#17--there isn't one yet. I toyed around trying to make one for myself for about a year.

#18--Peru like everyone and everywhere else has always been fucked up. Erdosain's soul was definitely an imbunche.