More 2016 Ruminations on Books By jillmwo

Okay, so I'm just a day late in starting up the next thread. (Everyone else in the Pub already had their motors revved up and started new threads yesterday.)

I tied up the previous thread with a few stats (nothing very in-depth in terms of analysis). Just a few observations regarding the number of new authors read, female vs. male, etc. I have vague thoughts about reading with intention but can't formulate anything with sense at the moment.

Besides, reading is supposed to be fun.

I am hiding here, behind the curtains.

I'm also lurking, even if I don't comment.

If you remember your Shakespeare at all, you'll recall that people who lurk behind arras tapestries run the risk of being skewered by mad Princes of Denmark. Do be careful. (You see? My only concern is your welfare.)

I'm not lurking. I'm wandering boldly around the room, checking out the bookshelves, admiring the artwork, looking in the cupboards and drawers, rifling through the desk, checking the contents of the fridge. Oh, look . . . there are people behind the draperies!

I'm dancing on the tabletop!

I am holding a shield between myself and the curtains.

Well, let's review some books here. It's been about two weeks since I've done so and I have attended 3 conferences and hosted two events in the meantime with some airplane time mixed in there.

(1) Penric's Demon was a title I had saved for at least one portion of my air travel. It's a novella by Lois McMaster Bujold and I knew it wouldn't be too long to finish in the time available. I found it less satisfying than The Curse of Chalion and/or Paladin of Souls, but it was a good distraction and I found it satisfied my objective of blocking out the flying experience. A young man acquires a multi-voiced demon and must learn how to handle himself as a result. (Is anyone else as tired of coming-of-age stories as me?) Edited to add: However, when I discovered that there was another novella -- a sequel -- published, Penric and the Shaman, I immediately grabbed it. It opens four years later.

(2) Murder for Lunch was a selection for one of my two book groups. I'd recommended it -- on the basis of an opening chapter -- to the others in that group and because the ebook was cheap, they went for it. Frankly, I'd trusted the opening chapter and the reputation of the publisher, but that was a mistake. The fictional case was a murder committed in a law firm in the upper echelon of New York City firms during the 80's. It was written by a lawyer so one rather assumes that the novel would reflect the attitudes to be usually found in such an environment. But would a law firm really try to complete the investigation of a partner's death before the police had completed their own job? I suppose a sense of privilege might support that behavior but it still seems odd. Not particularly recommended but it was the author's first published novel and the first in a series of six or eight, so your mileage may vary.

(3) A couple of weeks back, I got to see the movie, Love & Friendship, written and directed by Whit Stillman. It's based on Lady Susan, an early epistolary novella by Jane Austen and one that too many ordinary Jane-ites overlook. It's really not a romance like P&P. Instead it features Austen's attempt at a truly wicked female villain. Once I saw the movie, I subsequently picked up the text version of the screenplay, Love and Friendship: In Which Jane Austen's Lady Susan Is Entirely Vindicated (note a wonky touchstone may be in place there), also by Whit Stillman. His version of affairs really works pretty well; there's quite as much slyness in his re-telling as Austen put into the source material. (By the way, if you pick up Stillman's book, he includes the original text of the novella as an Appendix. Quite handy for purposes of comparison.)

Now if you should read Stillman's book -- including the appendix -- then you may also want to read the e-book, Lady Susan Plays The Game by Janet Todd. Hers is a less witty but perhaps a more historically sound retelling. Todd happens to be an Austen scholar in her own right and an editor for Cambridge University Press on the topic.

Actually, whether you realize it or not, I've just provided those with an interest in Austen with a nice, tidy little reading project of manageable size. Nothing too long, nothing too serious or complex, nothing too closely tied to the 21st century when you're trying to escape from reality on vacation.

(And I've got another reading project coming soon to you as well. A nice little pairing that is well suited to avid readers with insufficient ideas of what to read next as well as provide historical background on how publishing works at times.)

>8 jillmwo: "avid readers with insufficient ideas of what to read next "

I don't think that could possibly apply to anyone who hangs around here.

9> Are there any of us who don't have a shelf (or shelves) of books we mean to read but just haven't gotten to yet?

>10 pwaites: Well I certainly have a few that I haven't gotten to yet... (possibly a few years' worth).

Another Reading Project Suitable to the Summer

Not in the mood for Austen? My second recommended reading project consists of two titles that make an interesting and/or intriguing pair. The first one is When Books Went to War and the second one is A Great Idea at the Time. Read together, you get a much better sense of how and why publishing mushroomed into big and profitable business during World War II and in the post-war era. Both are relatively short reads; minus the various appendices, indexes and acknowledgements, neither is longer than 200 pages. In terms of the proper order for maximum value, one should read When Books Went to War first and then follow it up with A Great Idea at the Time. The first will explain the rationale for the great Armed Services Edition reading program, developed for the servicemen in the U.S. Military as a means of boosting morale. The ASE proved the viability of the mass-market paperback book as a format. The second book, A Great Idea at the Time overlaps a bit in time with the first, discussing a publishing venture that might be seen as building on the wartime reading experiences of servicemen by exposing returning veterans to the canon of Great Books. When Books Went to War is both heart-warming as well as wrenching upon occasion. Who would have thought that A Tree Grows in Brooklyn would have been one of the most popular titles for men serving overseas? (Although it did occur to me that that fact might have explained -- at least in part -- why it was required reading for me in eighth grade. Some old codger remembered how reading it helped a brother during the War and thought we’d all benefit from it as well. It certainly wasn’t because my school district was worried about pushing women’s lit.)

By contrast, A Great Idea at the Time which I initially read back in 2010 is a bit breezier and a bit more skeptical about the value of exposing less-well-prepared readers to the classics. Alex Beam's entire presentation of the development of the publishing program behind The Great Books suggests that the initiative was more about driving visibility and profitability than about real education. On the other hand, the author is less snarky when he begins talking about the Great Books Discussion Groups that sprang up in the ‘50’s and continued through to the end of the 20th century. The stories in that segment of the book matched some of the stories in When Books Went to War in terms of touching the heart about individuals actually trying to better themselves through reading the canon as set forth by Mortimer Adler, Robert Hutchins and their advisory board.

What makes both books worth hoarding on one’s shelf is the list of titles contained in the closing pages -- in particular, in When Books Went To War. Some of the titles might be easily predicted given the demographic being served; Raymond Chandler and Erle Stanley Gardner appear with some frequency. But there were some surprises! For those Sayers’ fans here on the thread, Busman’s Honeymoon was one of the titles that was printed and distributed to soldiers. And there’s another title -- Strange Fruit by Lillian Smith -- that gets mentioned as receiving a surprising amount of interest. (The book has to do with inter-racial romance. I really want to see if it's still around or even still in print.)

The friend who recommended When Books Went to War to me was incredibly enthused over it, simply because she wanted to pursue so many of the titles referenced in it. (I’m the one who came up with the idea of pairing it with A Great Idea at the Time, simply because of the timeline of events covered. I’d actually read and reviewed it back in 2010. It was originally published back in 2008. Some of you may have already seen it and passed it by…)

Edited to make minor grammatical correction and to clarify meaning in one sentence.

>8 jillmwo: & >12 jillmwo: Those are not book bullets, my dear. Those are book RPGs... at the very least.

>12 jillmwo: You are the second person I've seen mention When Books Went to War, and since I love books, and I have a collection of sorts of WWII stories, I think it is time to put it on my wishlist and radar.

>12 jillmwo: Busman's Honeymoon seems like an odd choice to distribute, since there is so much backstory to Peter and Harriet's romance.

>15 SylviaC: I thought that as well and reviewed the list in the back of When Books Went to War to see if any other Sayers' books were included in the ASE. But that was the only one. I can't explain it.

>12 jillmwo: I can't figure out Busman's Honeymoon either. I thought it might be because it was newly published, but it was published in 1937. A film was made in Britain in 1940, so perhaps it was in peoples' minds.

>15 SylviaC: I don't know--I can kind of see it, thinking about the underlying basis of the story--coming home, finally being with the woman you love after overcoming many trials--even while there's a mystery to be solved. And the descriptions of the countryside and house are very appealing and...well, homelike. So maybe it wasn't such an odd choice.

>15 SylviaC: Were these books for American GIs? Maybe it was to foster good relations and help explain the Brits to the American GIs. ;)

I think another book on there was Chicken Every Sunday, which is a pretty funny story. As is Busman's Honeymoon, so perhaps the idea was simply light-hearted-escapes-to-happy-homes.

Looking back, I think it was either the first or second Sayers book I read—certainly before I read any other Harriet books. My mother had Busman's Honeymoon and The Nine Tailors in print (others were in Braille or on tape), so I started with those two, and loved them both. So it did work as a standalone book for me.

It was a casual online exchange between me and a co-worker just within the past week that sent me off on an unusual direction -- away from my lighter reading selections of mystery and fantasy. She was telling me what she was reading, a book of essays by Aaron Swartz. I reacted when she mentioned his name because I’d followed his court case, writing an article for my industry colleagues about the tangled situation with his court case that ultimately led to Swartz’ suicide. Swartz was facing an indictment on 13 counts of violating the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. I promised her a copy of my 2013 article and that plunged me back in time a bit, once I dug it out. I re-read it, and then spent a half day re-visiting the issues that were associated with his activities. That led me to the same book my co-worker was reading as well as a quite good second title, written by a journalist sympathetic to his situation. That book was The Idealist: Aaron Swartz and the Rise of Free Culture on the Internet.

If you’re unfamiliar with who Aaron Swartz was, he was (literally) a young genius who actively engaged with emerging technologies back in the first decade of this century, being heavily involved with the code/creation of RSS, the open access movement, as well as an increasing political activitism. Swartz was worried that we weren't building the sensible legal and social constructs needed to allow society to adjust to all the new technology available to individuals as well as multi-national corporations. Among other prominent Internet figures, Swartz worked with the likes of Lawrence Lessig and Cory Doctorow. His suicide at the age of 26 may well have cost us more than we may ever know

I have really mixed feelings about the young man and I have trouble sorting those feelings out even now. I can’t help but acknowledge his brilliance but I do question some of his acts of civil disobedience and to some extent, the unconventional adolescence that allowed him to miss some degree necessary social maturation and/or acculturation. I do feel that one ought not to commit acts of civil disobedience as an act of protest if one isn’t prepared to accept the legal consequences of doing so. The legal consequences are an integral part of making others aware of a disproportionately negative consequence associated with a behavior ultimately revealed to be a moral one. But at the same time, I am horrified that he was experiencing such depression over his legal situation that he felt there was no way out for him. It's a heart-breaking story from all of the different perspectives of all the different stakeholders. It's just painful.

People may not wish or need to read this book this week, given so much of the current news in our lives, but I have to say that if you should be interested in learning more about the context of Swartz’s civil disobedience and how it played out, this book (particularly if read in conjunction with The Boy Who Could Change The World: The Writings of Aaron Swartz) would be worth your time.

>21 jillmwo: I definitely need to look for either/both those books. I watch the documentary, The Internet's Own Boy, on an irregular basis and it never ceases to move me. A terrible loss of such a gifted person.

I told my boss today that I was going to take an immediate and unplanned vacation, beginning as soon as tomorrow's staff meeting was done. I've had it. I don't want to think about work or the information community or even about the library environment for the next ten days. My spouse and I are thinking about going out to a nice local art museum. I'm thinking about reading a book, sitting in a cafe of some sort (but not one in Philly itself next week, given that there's the Democratic National Convention. Security measures are --ahem-- rather stringent...) I'm thinking about cleaning house (and you know it's bad when I'm sinking to that point.)

But I've hit the WALL and I want to binge watch something unrelated to work or real life. Mind you, it can be historical, but it can't require any real brain.

Pride and Prejudice? Buffy the Vampire Slayer? Veronica Mars? Firefly? Arsenic and Old Lace? My Fair Lady? Damn Yankees? Some Like it Hot? Star Wars?

Sorry you hit the wall at work, but it sounds like you're taking care of yourself with the two weeks off. Breathe....

Thanks, @karenmarie.

Where's @pgmcc? He should read this:
http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/brexit-difficulty-of-british-universities-is-i...

>25 jillmwo: I love it when a plan comes together.

Bwaahahahahahaha...!

>25 jillmwo: After the UK has departed the EU Ireland will become the only English speaking country in the EU. Many American companies that have invested in Ireland, England, Scotlan and Wales have had this as a key evaluation criterion when deciding to where to set up operations operations in the EU. Some of those companies that have set up operations in the UK are now looking at transferring to Ireland. The next few years will be interesting and strange, but full of opportunity.

Some organisations, e.g. the European financial clearing organisation, has already started the move away from the UK (moving to Frankfurt in Germany) even though the UK has not triggerred the exit mechanism yet. The uncertainty it has introduced is causing companies to start their move before it is too late.

The university opportunity is fascinating as it should, as mentioned in the article, reverse the education cutbacks put in place by our current government.

@jillmwo, thank you for posting the article.

>23 jillmwo: Enjoy your break! Read some nice, relaxing books, watch some shows, and don't worry about the cleaning unless you get really desperate.

>23 jillmwo: Times like that is when I reach for my favorite comfort read.

And I'm in need of comfort. The wretched a/c in the living room just gave up. On a weekend when we're expecting triple digit temps. So much for relaxed vacation time. (Although depending upon the timing involved, we may spend at least one night in a hotel.)

>30 jillmwo: Oh Jill! Bad timing on the AC giving out. Sorry, and hope you can manage to stay cool, even if it involves spending time in a hotel.

Enjoy your break, Jill. Perhaps chasing Pokémon would be a suitable distraction. ;o)

>30 jillmwo: I am so sorry! We have triple digits here as well and I worked two days with no A/C due to remodel going on at work, so I feel your pain.

If we lost air conditioning here I might be able to tolerate it, but husband would definitely come unglued and we'd be in a hotel. He absolutely cannot tolerate the heat and humidity.

My Reading/Thinking Process:

1. Read the book in print.
2. Question Occurs: what was going on in the world when this book was published in 1934?
3. Google it
a. Visit Wikipedia
b. Visit two or three other results (evaluating and sifting as I go)
c. Modify search query to rummage about further
d. Find particular title in Google Books (The Remarkable Case of Dorothy L. Sayers)
e. Read a few pages in that title online, scribbling notes
4. Go to bed but remember, as I'm lying in bed and drifting along, one relevant book on shelf that might have information.
5. Downstairs the next morning, look on Kindle (don’t we have that title in digital form? Can’t recall correct title; rummage about in my Amazon order history to determine the correct book title, download it to device in hand, search the book on my Kindle and clip relevant note.)

The result:

Finally read Sayers’ The Nine Tailors with full attention, with my brain switched on and able to process meaning. The first time I had tried to read it, it had been unsatisfactorily demanding of my brain -- convoluted thread of detection, heavy info dump regarding campanology, with the result of TL;DNR.

Stranded this week in the midst of a heat wave weighing heavily on the house, I finally read it with a certain amount of active brain activity and focused attention. I was blown away. Of course, this is one of the two or three titles considered to be Sayers’ best. There’s a theme and a sub-text that supports the mystery without overwhelming it. It’s thoroughly crafted and well-woven together. There’s some clever and humorous writing -- for example, a rapid exchange of telegrams between scattered characters (Superintendent Blundell, Lord Peter Wimsey, and the French Inspector). In that instance, the use of telegrams supplies needed information to the reader (perhaps confirming one of the reader’s suspicions), moves the action more efficiently, and conveys the conviviality of the working relationship between two of the main characters.

By the time I had finished the novel, I had a few flashes:
OMG, it’s about the first World War. (Triggering events take place in 1914.)
OMG, I think the sub-plot regarding the sluice system around the fen is actually a metaphor. It’s foreshadowing Sayers’ concerns about the ways in which inconsistent government policies may contribute to the rising dangers of a second World War in Europe. FenChurch St. Paul is symbolic of England and the story expresses her fears for the rural communities most vulnerable to War.
OMG, it’s about the importance of the Church in aiding/preserving/protecting the community in Sayers' society, time and personal experience.

(And yes, I really do think that way, at least in terms of a linear series of brain flashes, connective meaning, and use of the acronym, OMG)

The question that came up in my head (see process above) was whether Sayers’ really did foresee the possibility of a second world war. What signs might have been visible in 1933 or even earlier? For the record, it took her two years to research and compose The Nine Tailors. Adolf Hitler had just been made Chancellor of Germany.

The Nine Tailors is in some ways a daunting read (all that stuff about bells and how peals are rung in a highly structured and meaningful way, figuring out ciphers, etc.) but it’s also remarkably a satisfying one. One worth re-visiting. It's about the cycle of time and how we humans may cope with our own finite lives. So worth your time. I love it and may have to go back and re-read it all over again soon.

Edited to tidy up punctuation, typos, etc. and to clarify meaning in one or two sentences.

>35 jillmwo: I am glad you enjoyed, The Nine Tailors.

>35 jillmwo: I'm glad you were pleased with The Nine Tailors. I can't say it was one of my favorites, because they are all favorites, except Five Red Herrings, which I actively dislike and have read once and tried to re-read and abandoned 3 or more times over several decades. I've read The Nine Tailors perhaps 5 or 6 times over the decades, loving it more each time. From your library I see you have and highly rated Unnatural Death and have a lot of her non-fiction writings. What, if any, of her other Peter Wimsey books have you read?

She is one of my absolute favorite authors.

>35 jillmwo: I'm interested in your process and your analysis of it. I like a book that you can dig into in that way. My notes often consist of things to look up: the actual etymological meaning of "colony," the years when kids bought and collected Wacky Plaks (not Wacky Packs, though, as Tartt had it), what "Yamato" means to the Japanese. I also like themes that resonate and deeper meanings that emerge on reflection. Your discoveries concerning The Nine Tailors are wonderful.

>35 jillmwo: As much as I love that book, I had not tumbled to the thoughts on foreshadowing of WWII, although I really stink at finding that kind of stuff in books, so it doesn't surprise me. I am also glad that you enjoyed it. I think that Dorothy L. Sayers is a writer that readers at many different levels can enjoy. The very intellectual have plenty to sift through, and those like myself can treasure the characters and story being told without feeling stupid.

>35 jillmwo: Even without your revelations, The Nine Tailors is one of my favourite Lord Peter books. Like MrsLee, I read Sayers with the awareness that there are layers and layers that I'm missing, yet her writing still makes me feel particularly intelligent as I read it.

I looked up references to The Nine Tailors in her letters, and I didn't find anything relevant to your observations, but there was one interesting little tidbit. Sayers wrote to Victor Gollancz in September 1932, about Murder Must Advertise : "The new book is nearly done. I hate it because it isn't the one I wanted to write, but I had to shove it in because I couldn't get the technical dope on The Nine Tailors in time. Still, you never know what the public will fancy, do you?" . . . "Not one of my best efforts. The Nine Tailors will be a labor of love — and probably a flop!!" As a matter of fact, Murder Must Advertise is the book that shares top spot with The Nine Tailors in my own favourites.

In 1936 she was invited to attend the dedication ceremony of a new ring of bells at Croyden Parish Church. In her acceptance letter, she said, "I am afraid I have to confess that I really know nothing of Bellringing and have never, as a matter of fact, even seen a peal rung!"

>35 jillmwo: I've also heard it said that TNT related Peter's maturation into a person who is worthy of Harriet.

>41 Jim53: I have read that as well. However I have to be honest and note that I wasn't picking up on that aspect of the story so much as I was reading it. Instead I was caught by how much of the story tied into the lingering effects from the upheaval caused by the first World War. How much that was still being felt in rural England (particularly as it's not a strong thread in Murder Must Advertise which preceded the publication of The Nine Tailors). What did strike me was something of Lord Peter's distancing from the various sufferings of others. Ultimately, we see him placed in more of an cosmic cycle of time and good and evil. There's a pivotal moment when he speaks to the local vicar (Venables) about the consequences of his sleuthing and a more dramatic moment when he is on the roof of the church looking down on the landscape. I would need to go back and review it again to be able to parse exactly how she might have pushed his growth along. (There's also the realization that Bunter's function in this book is minimized. He's there, but...)

To all (>36 pgmcc:. >37 karenmarie:, >38 Meredy:, >39 MrsLee:. >40 SylviaC:), let me note that with regard to Sayers' foreshadowing of WWII, I may be reading something into the novel that isn't really there. I'm not a Sayers expert by any means and am just as prone to misreading her as the next person. I'm not sure. It's just that the sluice systems fail some 20+ pages before the end of the novel. The death due to that failure provides the final resolution in terms of "justice" and perhaps that's the real point where Peter matures. But the massive church serves as shelter to the villagers and their livestock for three days due to the Venables' organizational order and planning. The church is essentially an island during that three day time frame. But it's still a rather dark ending to what might have been considered light leisure reading in 1934.

Now one other thing came out today. I was rummaging about in the various book boxes upstairs, trying vainly to cull the numbers, when I came across the very lightweight Wild Strawberries by Angela Thirkell. Being on vacation and being in the midst of a pile of books, naturally I plopped down and flipped through it. (As you all would as well, I know.) Casually, I happened to check the original copyright date on Thirkell's book and lo-and-behold, it too was originally published in 1934. Just like The Nine Tailors. It was a particularly good year in British literature it would seem. Agatha Christie published Murder on the Orient Express that year. Goodbye, Mr. Chips was another classic novel published then. Similarly I, Claudius and Invincible Louisa. So if we're whipping out a Tardis for purposes of time travel, I think I would want to go spinning back to that period of publishing.

By the way, if you know Wild Strawberries at all, it's a very light bit of froth, but Lady Emily there is very close in personality and behavior to the Dowager Duchess found in Busman's Honeymoon. It's hard to imagine the real existence of such loving (albeit faintly air-headed) women. But two very different women authors, both gifted in rendering character and voice, had encountered them somewhere...

And, @Meredy, you have an equally interesting process. So what does Yamato really mean for the Japanese? Google isn't much help with that kind of thing.

One other item that occurred to me today. When Sayers was writing, the voices of the various characters were each distinct. Now this might have been due to the class/educational differences found in a highly-stratified society, but when I read something more modern (but still within the same genre, same geographical setting, same mix of urban and rural), I realized that those specific differences in voice were missing. In the more modern work, the characters' dialogue all sounded as if it emerged from the same person. There was no distinguishing who was who by dialect or by cadence or by vocabulary.

Makes me appreciate Sayers' deftness and skill even more!

>43 jillmwo: Hear! Hear! This is something I have noticed without knowing what I was noticing. Probably why her novels are on my "keeping forever" shelf.

Okay, remember back up there in msg #8, how I was talking about Jane Austen, Lady Susan and various retellings and reinterpretations? One of the things that had been sitting on my ottoman was a book by Stella Tilllyard from the 1990's, Aristocrats along with another book on Georgian England entitled The Beau Monde. In the mood for some non-fiction again, I had picked up the latter title during vacation. It was very serious, although still readable. But there were references in that to the scandal associated with Sarah Lennox. That was somewhat titillating as a story which sent me off into Tillyard's biography of the Lennox sisters. In turn, that sent me off to YouTube, because the entire six part BBC dramatization of Aristocrats is available there. (Can you say binge-watch? I can...)

At any rate, it's great fun. And all very informative. The four sisters were quite something. I rather think Jane Austen must have been aware of some of their activities when she was writing the aforementioned Lady Susan. I don't think real wimps did well back in Georgian England so it's possible that Lady Susan as a character was entirely justified in her behaviors.

>44 MrsLee: Following up on the discussion of voice, I would recommend to anyone fond of Golden Age Mysteries the 1933 mystery, An Oxford Tragedy. The story is told in first person by a sixty-year-old don, the Senior Tutor of St. Thomas' College, Francis Wynn. It isn't as lively as a Sayers' mystery but J.C. Masterman captures the voice of a sixty year old man very well. He's not presented as an absent-minded professor, but rather as a caring man getting well-on in years, rather like the elderly gentleman Mr. Satterthwaite of The Mysterious Mr. Quinn. (Although Winn isn't as lighthearted as Satterthwaite.) He's distraught by the rending of his community by the murder of a colleague and at the end, he acknowledges that nothing will ever be the same for him. There is a sense of the tragic in his perceptions of how both innocent and guilty will suffer.

One notable quote from early in the novel as Winn explains himself: Providence gave me, I think, an imperfect appreciation of the beauties of nature; I can’t enthuse over the grandeur of hills or seas, nor even over the more placid loveliness of the countryside. But as some sort of compensation I have a real aesthetic love of the lighted interior, the scene of social intercourse and good fellowship at their best. For me a Dutch interior by Maes or Terborch, or an eighteenth-century conversation piece is worth more than any landscape or seascape that was ever painted. Nor was it only the externals of the Common Room which I loved; it seemed rather that life there suited itself to my every mood.

>45 jillmwo: I do not have the time to tell you about it now but I had a wonderful evening in Castletown House a few years ago when the author of Aristocrats, the BBC screenwriter and the BBC director for the show, discussed the making of the show and the choosing of locations. A fascinating evening.

Oooh, @pgmcc, you can't leave me hanging like that. When you have more time, I hope you'll feed us more information regarding that evening and what you heard!!!

>48 jillmwo: Bwahahahahaha! The power. I feel it surging through my veins.

>49 pgmcc:

aka - heartburn.

>49 pgmcc: and >50 suitable1: *snort* It occurs to me that I'm sitting in a pub at 7:30am, trying to hold an intelligent conversation and getting back guff from a power-mad Irishman. All without having to incur the cost of a plane ticket...

I'm struggling to work out whether that's an even exchange.

>49 pgmcc: Beware! You are heading into >51 jillmwo: territory very soon.

>52 MrsLee: I believe there are pubs in Boston. Cheers!

(Do you see what I did there?)

>53 pgmcc: I wanted to make a squinty face, but LT is only showing one side of the squint, which make no sense. Oh well, I'm sure you can imagine the face I made.

I just want to add that one of the benefits of reading Aristocrats by Stella Tillyard while also watching the '90's adaptation is that one begins to understand how far reaching the influence of the Lennox sisters actually was. From an architectural standpoint, both Emily (married to the Earl of Kildare) and Louisa (married to the richest commoner in Ireland) left their stamp on houses that are still noteworthy. Go look at photos of what Emily Lennox did at Carton (sadly now a hotel) and what Louisa did at Castletown. Really quite marvelous! And today I got a used copy of Aristocrats: The Illustrated Companion which is thoroughly well illustrated with photographs -- not just publicity shots. Tilllyard wrote new text to accompany the photographs and further expound on life in town vs. life in the country.

And these women had amazing lives. Emily had 19 children with her first husband, the Earl, and then another three with her second spouse. (Of the 19, only 12 lived to maturity.) Caroline, the eldest, was intellectual and created a welcoming open home in the interests of her husband's political career. Louisa may have married a stupid man but she was the one who kept the peace between all the sisters; she was happy with her spouse and again created an outstanding country home. Sarah, the baby of the four, created all kinds of scandal for her family even though she failed to marry George III.

If I had the brain this evening, I'd write something about presentation of content across biography, illustrated companion and television screen play, because that's an interesting aspect of my experience in learning this week, but the important thing for you to take away is my fascination with these women taking on a world that had such stringent social protocols.

I have placed an ILL request for Aristocrats (the book, not the dramatization), because I didn't already have enough to read.

What makes it worse, @SylviaC, is that Stella Tillyard later wrote a biography on one of the Lennox descendents, entitled Citizen Lord which gets into some of the Irish revolutionary history. I'm resisting (because I've no time OR money) but it's a fascinating family and cultural/political period.

Jill, if you liked Aristocrats you might enjoy Princesses: the Six Daughters of George III--similar time period (overlaps with the Lennox sisters) and well-constructed and -written.

Flora Fraser looks like she has a number of interesting titles >58 Marissa_Doyle:. At the moment, I'm being conservative with my book buying funds but I'm going to keep an eye out.

For the record, since tomorrow night is a book group discussion, I did read The King's Hounds. One word review? (Yawn). Workmanlike in its execution as the first in a series. And usually, I love a good historical mystery.

I must go root about in the book boxes for something new and intriguing.

>59 jillmwo: It's always fun looking for a new book to read. Good luck finding a good 'un.

So I'm at book group last night and my friend has put a book by my place at the table. Is it a new mystery? Is it some fascinating social history? Nope. My friend thinks that the perfect book for me is *drum roll* Volume 21 of the Dictionary of Literary Biography: Victorian Novelists Before 1885 by William Fredeman. (The touchstone is wonky for that title, but you can see it at: https://www.librarything.com/work/18203810.)

Now, how well does that woman know me? *snort*

>61 jillmwo: Wow! That's just so perfect for you. How old is it?

>61 jillmwo: Wow. 2 million LTers, over 107 million books, and YOU have the only copy. Aren't you da bomb?

>62 clamairy: and >63 karenmarie: The printed volume dates back to 1983. My friend handed it over to me because the full series is available to her online via her academic institution. Now why mine is the only copy listed on LT is another question. Not everyone will have online access and I can't believe there are not print versions lurking somewhere on shelves.

>64 jillmwo: Maybe they are listed as sets rather than volume by volume.

>65 Meredy: Good point! That may well be the case.

Prepare for whiplash. After all, I was reading Georgian, eighteenth century history last week. I just finished Vanishing Point by Michaela Roessner. Some of you were talking about post-apocalyptic science fiction and I think it was @Sakerfalcon who first mentioned this one on her thread. I don't know what prompted me to find a cheap used copy on Amazon, but I did.

Imagine an event, an utterly disruptive event -- an anomaly that was unforeseeable in the normal course of events. It takes two or three decades for the remaining society to re-attain some kind of equilibrium. But there’s no obvious or reliable explanation of the disruptive event. Consequently, various segments of the population develop their own interpretations of its cause and appropriate reactions. What behavior is best in the wake of the event? What protections are needed? How should human beings move forward in an inherently threatening environment?

That’s the key question in Vanishing Point. When the larger universe reveals itself as uncontrollable (beyond the more familiar unpredictability of fires or earthquakes, etc.), how do human beings wrestle with and manage their fundamental need for some degree of control?

The tale is primarily (not exclusively) told through the female point of view. Central to the story are Nesta (a middle-aged scientist, beginning to enter the elder years), Renzie (an active young woman -- an outdoor ranger of sorts), and Minda (a little girl). As you would expect, age influences your worldview in the wake of the original disruptive event. But to what extent and how? Whose worldview is truly fragmented?

This was really interesting speculative fiction. It may not be the Great American Novel, but it’s definitely good speculative fiction, a playful exploration of “What If”. I would recommend picking up a copy of this one and then I would advise you to allow plenty of time to read it and consider all the possibilities. This one might actually give The Thrilling Adventures of Lovelace and Babbage a run for its money as my best book of 2016.

>67 jillmwo: It is very inexpensive on Kindle, too. I couldn't find it in other ebook formats, though. I have it, and hope to get to it soon.

>67 jillmwo: Yay! Vanishing Point is part of KOLL. I just borrowed it for free as part of my Amazon Prime membership.

BTW, your touchstone is pointing to a book with the same title but different author.

>69 ScoLgo: I edited and hopefully have fixed the wretched touchstone. Heaven knows I tried... (BTW, what is KOLL? Is that the subscription service that Amazon has? I thought that was a separate service from Prime.)

>67 jillmwo: I justified buying Vanishing Point and The Thrilling Adventures of Lovelace and Babbage by Sydney Padua by telling myself that I won't buy any more books this month. Ya got me, Jill!

Sorry, it stands for (K)indle (O)wner's (L)ending (L)ibrary.

Included with Amazon Prime membership is the ability to borrow one book per month at no extra charge. Of course, not all kindle books are included, but the good part is that there is no time limit. Once I borrow a book, I can keep it for as long as I like. I just can't borrow another until I return the current one.

KOLL is separate, and pre-dates, Kindle Unlimited. Ever since rolling out the subscription model, Amazon has done their best to bury the lending library.

Still, even with the annoying limitations imposed on KOLL, it remains an occasional free e-book - which is especially nice when my library doesn't offer the title on Overdrive.

>72 ScoLgo: I have Amazon Prime and a Kindle, and I never heard of it. How do you access it?

>73 Meredy: A couple of ways...

To browse KOLL titles from the Amazon main page:

1. Change Amazon main search to books and click search tool, (or press 'enter')
2. Scroll down left-hand navigation and click the 'Prime' box.
3. Find and choose 'Kindle Edition' in the left-hand navigation menu.
4. Choose filter in left-hand nav menu, (e.g. History, Romance, Science Fiction & Fantasy, etc)

Once you are in your category of choice, you can search for specific titles, authors, etc. HOWEVER, you will need to re-enable both the Prime checkbox and Kindle Edition filters after each search.

To search for a specific title, author, etc, just search from the main page and then apply the Prime and Kindle Edition filters.

From your kindle:

If you know the title you want, it's easy to search for it from your kindle. If it's available to borrow, it will show a 'Read for Free' link on the book page. That link disappears from all book listing if you have a book checked out - or if the timer (one book per month) has not yet reset to the new month. Once your account is enabled for borrowing a new book, those Prime/read for free links will reappear where applicable.

Hope this helps!

I forgot about the koll too!

>75 MrsLee: How could you forget? LOL

>74 ScoLgo: They have made the books a bit harder to identify.

>73 Meredy: It easier a little easier to do it from your Kindle. Don't you have a PaperWhite? This is how it works on mine.

- Open the Kindle Store.
- Click in the upper right hand corner where the three lines appear. The seventh link down should be Kindle Owner's Lending Library. You can search by category in there. There are 1,316,715 volumes to borrow!

>76 clamairy: I was distracted by trying Kindle Unlimited for awhile. Now although I've been steadily purchasing Kindle books on sale, I haven't been reading many of them because I'm trying very hard to read the solid books in my house.

>77 MrsLee: Don't tempt me, Frodo! I am staying away from Kindle Unlimited. I would never read them fast enough to make it worth the cost. I'll wait for the occasional $1.99 sales, and borrow from OverDrive & KOLL.

>78 clamairy: The cost is what keeps me away from KU as well... I figure I am already paying $100/year for Prime. Why give Amazon another $120 for e-books when I already have an out of control TBR?!!? Besides, BookGorilla finds me plenty of freebies that I also don't have time to read... ;)

You all are just enabling each other! I have adopted the policy of largely buying print/elec in tandem (although not necessarily at the same point in time). If I read it in print and feel as if I want to be able to search the book (for purposes of analysis or study), then I also buy the e-version. If it's something that I doubt I'll revisit, I may buy it in electronic form initially, read it and then determine if I want or need the rights of actual ownership (as opposed to licensing the content, which is what you really do in gaining access to e-books. I am suspicious of the idea of licensing in perpetuity. There's really no such beast in my experience.) This puts a bit of a crimp in how much I actually buy, because a single work represents a substantially greater investment. (Unless it is in the 1.99 or 2.99 price range. But even that can add up. Can you tell I'm really trying to be good?)

Now on another point, I wanted to share this quote with you from my latest read, Power of Reading: From Socrates to Twitter. It's from Frank Furedi's preface to the book.

Throughout the Anglo-American world, reading is confused with literacy. Literacy is a skill oriented towards the decoding of written texts and in a modern society that relies so much on communication, this is an essential skill to possess. But reading is much more than literacy. Reading involves interpretation and imagination. It is a cultural accomplishment through which meaning is gained.

Now, consider that and discuss your own definitions and use of the two concepts -- reading and literacy. Do you use the terms interchangeably? Or are you aware of the nuance there in meaning?

Personally I always have to remind myself; it's too easy to use them interchangeably.

For the record, I did buy this title in print (British edition and more expensive as a result) because I wanted to concentrate on the argument, but I'll probably spring for the additional e-version which brings the grand total cost all the way up to something between $45.00 and $50.00. (My impulse for purchase was for work, so eventually the investment will pay off.)

>79 ScoLgo: Exactly! I might consider KU if my library stopped using OverDrive.

>80 jillmwo: I'm impressed, Jill. I'll often borrow ebooks that I own in print, just because they're so much easier to read. But if I buy a double it's usually a mistake. Although I have bought the Kindle versions of things I own multiple copies of like The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings and To Kill a Mockingbird.

>80 jillmwo: I've seen "literacy" used for so many things, from being able to read words in a language to understanding a particular domain to being able to discuss texts meaningfully. I do tend to think of it as a capability rather than an action. Reading, OTOH, is primarily an action (yes, it's also a capability). I think of reading a good book as performing it: I'm taking the box of words provided by the author and applying my knowledge, my culture, my imagination, my current mood, and all sorts of things to create an experience of understanding, enjoyment, sometimes inspiration (sometimes, um, not). The more the author invites me to do this, the better I like the book, when I'm reading for this sort of experience. Sometimes, of course, I just want a comfort read or some information about a topic, which is a different sort of reading.

>82 Jim53:

I think of reading a good book as performing it: I'm taking the box of words provided by the author and applying my knowledge, my culture, my imagination, my current mood, and all sorts of things to create an experience of understanding, enjoyment, sometimes inspiration

Very nice description of reading engagement.

>82 Jim53: >83 LolaWalser: Yes, that's spot on. Well stated!

>82 Jim53: - 84: Spot on. I can't help being reminded of the scene in First among Sequels (I think) where Thursday Next has to hide quickly as the book she's working in is read by an innocent outsider.

>82 Jim53: >83 LolaWalser:, >84 clamairy: >85 hfglen: I have the notes assembled for an article (as yet unwritten) with the working title something along the lines of "Value Is Determined At The Moment of Engagement", meaning that content creators and publishers should be looking at how the presentation of content/information fosters the reader's engagement and it's when that happens that readers are willing to fork over hard-earned cash. While I agree that's not an earth-shattering revelation, that realization should drive publishers' (and scholars') thinking about what is the best way to present particular bodies of knowledge in the interest of broad dissemination. Remember in the Harry Potter movies, how the newspapers in reporting the escape of Sirius Black have moving photos as part of the coverage? That kind of presentation strikes me as what the rising population of students and readers may hope for. Why shouldn't publishers be thinking about bringing greater depth to my learning experience by grabbing the Aristocrats videos off of YouTube and weave that in with the text of Tillyard's biography while picking up the images from Google of the two great houses that were fostered by Emily and Louisa. Wouldn't that be a better way of capturing the attention of students and expose them to a variety of fields (history, architecture, adaptation of book to film and the associated constraints)?

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying let's do away with the simple printed text. (I still want @Jim53 to exert his capabilities of imagination and prior learning in absorbing knowledge.) I'm saying that the role of publishers and authors is to consider different combinations of content presentation with an eye to improving the overall experience.

(Now must go stand at stove to eat my breakfast before I sit down at the office computer in my dining room and re-invent a professional scholarly event. I swear I can't make up my mind if I want to retire or not.)

>86 jillmwo: That certainly meshes well with my recent experiences as a technical writer. Today's customers (pardon me if I sound like an old grump--it's only because I am) demand embedded videos and all sorts of other bells and whistles, and I have to keep my paragraphs short to avoid the appearance of impenetrably dense text. I mean, it's not as if they were trying to learn some complex technical skill . And yet, if delivering the information in different ways helps them to grasp the concepts and succeed with the tasks, it's clearly the right thing to do. It just seems to me that they're receiving the material quite passively rather than engaging with it.

>86 jillmwo: & >87 Jim53:

Fascinating ideas. Early in your post, Jill, I was reminded of an exchange between Merlin and a young Arthur in "G and the Part I Played in his (can't remember full title)..." Merlin was training Arthur and Arthur had to fast for a long time. At the end of the fasting prriod Merlin prepared a bowl of soup for Arthur and Arthur was anticipating it with relish (the one that goes with anticipation, not the one on the side of a plate).

Merlin sits Arthur down infront if the bowl and tells him to start eating his soup. As soon as Arthur has eaten one spoonful of soup Merlin snatches the bowl away.

The ensuing conversation relays the message that the greatest value of a feast is in the first bite. A graphing demonstration of diminishing returns the economic concept of propensity to consume.

I don't read books anymore without my smartphone nearby. I love being able to look up photos of the people mentioned in the story, or whatever the subject is. Of course, it takes me a lot longer to read a book that way, but I feel much more involved if I can look up the flower mentioned, or the type of clothing, etc.

>87 Jim53: So is that passive learning? I'm not sure that it is. I think it might be recognizing that there are different learning styles. In the past, much information was not available to those who did not do well with processing the written word on the page. I don't know a lot about this, but I think learning styles, and presenting information in more than one way might be a step forward.

I am wondering (based on comments above as well as on the presentation of the history of reading found in Furedi's book, Power of Reading: From Socrates to Twitter) at what point we truly have *read* a book. Western culture has laden the act of reading with a huge cultural expectation, and engagement with a text is supposed to yield great benefits. There are different ways of measuring it, I'm sure. For example, I might read a lightweight novel as a non-stressful means of passing an evening. If I can't recall the plot of the novel a month later, have I truly engaged with or *read* the book at all. Do we measure engagement by means of my recollection of what I have read? What then is the right time frame for recalling something in measuring engagement? Furedi's book is interesting (if a tad long-winded in some respects). If I don't take notes, I won't remember from beginning of chapter to end what it is I've just waded through (read). If I take notes while reading (and I do), is the accomplishment of engagement due to the skill of the writer or due to the impression made on my smooshy brain when hand-copying out the thesis statement found in a paragraph or chapter.

If I think about my reading in 2016 in that light, which books have I truly read -- that is, engaged with to the extent that I can even now remember a specific character, plot point or crux of an argument? In honesty, if gauged by depth of engagement, I haven't truly read all that much this year for all the hours spent with the book in hand.

And there's another question that pops into my head. In light of some of what I've read this year that was tied to film or television, is my memory of the book or novel given greater advantage because I saw it on screen? (How much do I remember about Strangers on a Bridge as a book as opposed to the movie with the outstanding acting renditions by Tom Hanks and Mark Rylance?) The visual on screen does reinforce what's on the page, but I have to read the book to properly understand what the screenwriter glossed over to suit the other medium.

Thinking out loud here... We've had for centuries the single vehicle of language in print to use as a means of engagement. We measured it according to the act of completely reading a volume (and note that looking something up in a book is not the same thing as reading the book). What happens to human civilization if we break apart the act of reading according to specific use cases? If it's not about a scientist reading a journal article but rather the scientist wrestling with a data set that constitutes engagement, then the act of reading (as opposed to the mechanical practice of literacy) becomes less important because we have video and data visualization tools that can be used to replicate the original experiment and its outcome. Is reading more the act of a historian/researcher? Is what is meant by "reading" going to become something more complex? Something closer to what the elite "reading class" do -- that kind of close reading that requires one to examine and cogitate over every sentence one by one? (And one level, wouldn't that be dreary? Does everything have to become work to be meaningful activity?)

Of course, I haven't the foggiest notion. I just am aware that it is much harder to execute in real life when it's an economic requirement to publish in a sustainable on-going fashion. Is a publisher the person who pays the developer to create an app, in the interest of making the content usable? Or is publishing more about the craft of identifying good writing and packaging it for dissemination to the marketplace?

Yes, I know that I'm blethering. Yes, I am pontificating, and I'm really kind of sorry for that. (Apologies. Will consider deleting message.) I am just wondering what it will all look like fifty years from now. Of course, by then, I'll be dead and likely won't have to endure any poorly considered avenues of approach.

>90 jillmwo: please don't apologize for grappling with these questions. I, for one, find them fascinating, and I don't have any easy answers. I do think that different texts invite different approaches to reading, and that you can't expect to engage with a light comfort read in the way that you do with a more challenging piece.

I remember an interview with Ursula LeGuin in which she said that she was delighted if after reading one of her books, the reader remembered the name of her protagonist, and maybe a few other characters. That seems like a reflection of her priorities as a writer, which I guess I share, as far as fiction goes.

Some reads seem more like a bubble bath. Deeply relaxing and cleansing of stress, but you don't have to memorize each bubble. Enjoy the moment. Others strike deep and leave their mark. Both are necessary for me.

You're a very smart woman, @MrsLee. But my weekend brain is still considering what various genres might require in terms of effective presentation. Think about Tolkien's poetry. Read "The Hoard" or "The Man in the Moon Stayed Up Too Late" to yourself and you may enjoy them quietly (Your bubble bath, if you will.) Read them aloud to your child and the intonations and pronunciations acclimate the child to the sound of unfamiliar words and the possibility of re-inventing Mother Goose. Listen to Tolkien (should such a recording exist) recite the same material and there's the possibility of picking up a different emphasis from the one you read into the poem yourself. Set it to music or add in gorgeous Alan Lee illustrations and memory of the work becomes more deeply set into our brains. Why don't we treat Tolkien's poetry with the same reverence that one might accord that written by Poe? Properly set off in the correct framing presentation, would the two be equal? I might think that the way Tolkien plays with unfamiliar words and rhythms is better than Poe's macabre imagery and rhythms.

The second thing that came to me this morning was the reminder of Pierre Bayard's How To Talk About Books You Haven't Read. That one is still rather above my head but he references Balzac in a discussion of how to view literary criticism of work. How you needn't *read* in order to be able to share in the collective cultural library that exists. (His idea is more than simply knowing bits of vocabulary -- muggle or horcrux in Harry Potter, for example -- but knowing the themes and ideas from the books that allow Hogwarts to resonate with the generation that grew up reading it.) I can't recall most of the plots of the HP books, but I know/remember enough that I can discuss them with or understand the points made by my sons (who have absorbed them deeply growing up). And we each have a collective "inner" library of titles we've read.

I seem to have spent a certain amount of time this past two or three months thinking about reading. There's a cluster (unintentionally assembled) of titles: When Books Went To War, A Great Idea At the Time, and Power of Reading. I'm sure there might be others that fit into the cluster, but they are eluding me.

>93 jillmwo: Caedmon issued at least three discs of Tolkien reading extracts from The Hobbit, Lord of the Rings and, if memory serves me well, Tom Bombadil way back in the archaic days of vinyl. I have all three, somewhere. He spoke with a distinguished Oxford growl -- almost Churchillian in places. Somehow I can't imagine @MrsLee sounding similar.

Lurking too. But arriving newly to your thread, I'm wondering whether you might have time to provide some context for your interest in literacy vs reading? Maybe some sense of what may be the personal resonance for you and what has come out of recent reading?

What a thought-provoking question, @stellarexplorer! It sent me off to ponder a truthful response (unfortunately on a week day, so this may be a short response with a longer one later to follow.)

There are both personal and professional reasons. On a personal level, in order to properly determine what portions of my book collection might be downsized, I need to think about the purpose of why I buy books and why I retain them. For my purposes. there are three reasons to engage in reading (1) education or to pursue intellectual stimulation; (2) to verify needed facts or arguments; and (3) to entertain. My book collection actually reflects that assumption. The formats needed to serve those purposes are different. I can read Agatha Christie's novels on a Kindle without any problem (Reason #3); however, I might want print volumes for purposes of researching some of the background to those novels or for purpose of analysis before talking about them at the local library (Reason #2, and Reason #1). If it's just a question of verifying facts but I don't have access to the online version of the Dictionary of Literary Biography, I have to think whether the shelf space for the printed volume is going to be justified by the degree of use I'll make of the book over the span of years. Vying with all of those considerations is the fact that I have an emotional attachment to my books because they tie me to a particular point of time in my life -- the copy of Alcott's An Old-Fashioned Girl was a gift on my eleventh or twelfth birthday. I hold on to the hard copy because it's a landmark for memory. Then there are the books I read for work-related reasons -- Power of Reading: From Socrates to Twitter or Patience and Fortitude. How long do I hold on to those?

And then there are the books I own that I haven't "grown into" as yet. Books by Pierre Bayard fall into that category. I have to think hard when I read him so I hold on to him because one day I'm going to really be able to absorb his thinking.

My personal collection in some ways reflects my professional way of thinking about library collections at an institutional level. What is the role of an academic library in the current higher education environment? What purposes do the books in the collection serve for a particular educational community (undergrads, faculty, Ph.D candidates, etc.). Many academic libraries see their role as shifting -- they aren't just a storage facility for books. They are putting their spaces to other activities as the workflow of researchers shifts to incorporate other tools. And if the output from the use of the tools by those scholars doesn't communicate their findings appropriately, what new formats are needed. That question may not have an answer for another twenty years (as technology moves) and the answer may be different for each discipline. (What need do archaeologists have for data science tools? They are wrestling with soil types, etc and therefore geo-spatial data is part of their workflow. They use databases of various sorts in much the way that they used to use books. When it comes to disseminating their new findings, is a book or monograph the best way to capture and present new knowledge? What should publishers be producing in service to that particular disciplinary community?)

Libraries are not all the same -- there are research libraries, academic libraries, public libraries. Their practices in collecting content (books, software, formats, etc.) are going to diverge as we understand more completely what purposes each community has of various types of publications. As a quick example, we know that scientists have historically made more use of scholarly journal articles than books; those working in the humanities are the ones working with full length monographs. How communities need to engage with content, how individuals like me need or want to engage with content should be the great concern of publishing businesses (in order to remain viable) and of libraries (so that they archive what is needed in the form that is needed to maximize the collection's value to the broadest possible set of readers or users?).

I am fifteen minutes into my work day so must end here, but does this somewhat off-the-cuff response make sense? Or have I misread the question on the basis of just a single cup of coffee and no breakfast?

No, that helps. And thank you for taking the time. I contend with some of these issues, but purely regarding my personal library. Yet with many books, constant new acquisitions, and limited shelf space for traditional books on paper, consideration must be paid. This is probably not the place to describe my own process with this on your thread.

So you are an academic librarian, if I understand correctly? Dealing with complex decisions about what resources are needed, how to manage them, and in what form(s)? What a fascinating job!

I'm still not completely clear on the literacy vs reading distinction, though I understand that it does pertain to your personal library as well as your professional duties. And as you've been kind enough to take time already from your busy work day, any more you can say can certainly wait until you are at leisure! Explanation appreciated!

>93 jillmwo: I'm just catching up after an internet-deprived weekend, so I still need to do a lot of reading and digesting here. I just wanted to mention that Voices of Poetry - Volume 1 has "The Hoard" read by Tolkien. Its Audible listing is here: http://www.audible.com/pd/Classics/Voices-of-Poetry-Volume-1-Audiobook/B00328810...

>97 stellarexplorer: My rambling with regard to literacy has to do with mindless consumption of a book (where literacy is all that's required) as compared with mindful ingestion of a book (reading). If you slurp down a book in a day, did you really read it? Is our definition of what is meant by reading changing?

I work at the corner of Academic Library Street and Scholarly Publishers Road (a non-profit association for libraries and publishers). I frequently have to act as traffic cop to keep one set of vehicles from running over the other set of vehicles. (And when I'm not doing that, I'm leading book groups at the local library).

>98 SylviaC: and >94 hfglen:, On one hand, I'm not sure I need to hear the reading of Tolkien's poetry. But I could see where the incorporation of that audio with the text might enhance the experience of poetry for some readers. Weave it into a wonderful app with animation and art. Personally, I love the rollicking "The Man In The Moon Stayed Up Too Late" I wish it were more well-known. (Why couldn't Peter Jackson have included more poetry/music in his version of LOTR rather than all those overly-long action sequences?)

>99 jillmwo: I'm reminded of something Woody Allen said:

"I took a course in speed reading and was able to read War and Peace in twenty minutes. It's about Russia."

>99 jillmwo: I have to say I was never very impressed with Tolkien's poetry until I listened to LotR read by Rob Inglis and he sang the songs instead of reading them. It made them a ethereal, lovely and moving.

Notice what Agatha Christie did here in a clip of conversation between Poirot and Hastings in The ABC Murders:

“They’re quite sure that this is the crime?” I asked, as I hastily lathered my face.
“An A B C open at the trains to Bexhill was found actually under the body.”
I shivered. “This is horrible!”
“Faites attention, Hastings. I do not want a second tragedy in my rooms!”
I wiped the blood from my chin rather ruefully.

No mention there of the act of shaving. Just the reference to lathering his face in the first sentence and then reference to wiping the blood from his chin. And she completely avoids the cliche of Hastings actually saying "ouch".

I finished this easy-read sitting in bed this am with my first cup of coffee. I had seen the television adaptation with David Suchet, but hadn't been particularly taken with it. What actually makes the book interesting (and much more interesting than the television adaptation) and what you can't entirely transfer to the screen is Poirot's particular motivation in solving the case. He is primarily concerned with the why behind the series of murders. He is pretty sure the individual held in police custody is not the murderer, but he has to work out logically the why underlying the crime in order to be able to pinpoint the real culprit.

(This is one of Christie's novels that is considered to be one of her ten best and her use of a serial killer in the late thirties is a forerunner of what we find commonplace in more modern crime novels; I think that's why one should have familiarity with it. But while the puzzle element may be excellent and the use of an alternate point of view (beside the first person account by Hastings) is novel for her, I don't think the writing style of the novel is particularly good.)

>102 jillmwo: That is a cleverly designed clip - thank you!

You expressed fleeting double blink at The Unusual Second Life of Thomas Weaver, and apropos of the above, I don't know whether it will generate any more interest (and this is not a spoiler) to know that a serial killer plays a role within. Not that I want to over-recommend it.

>102 jillmwo: That is what I miss with so many mediocre writers. They have to describe everything in detail, as if they don't trust the reader to be able to make good connections. Love that. I didn't even know the word "shaving" was missing until you pointed it out, but I had the entire picture in my head.

Excellent clip, Jill! I love Agatha Christie, have read many of her books half a dozen times or more over the years. The only ones I don't like at all are the Tuppence and Tommy books. But Poirot, Mrs. Marple, Harley Quin and Mr. Satterthwaite, Parker Pine, and Ariadne Oliver are all quite wonderful, IMO. If you like autobiographies, hers is quite good. And on another thread somewhere someone mentioned The Grand Tour, a book about Dame Agatha edited by her grandson, which I just bought.

At the beginning of her 2016 personal reading thread @clamairy noted that she had read A Gift Upon The Shore. I remembered it (at least to some extent) because there was a booklist that was peripherally bound into the premise of that post-apocalyptic science fiction tale. By peripherally, I mean that the titles that were on that booklist were never specified in the novel itself, but were added to the inside of the dust jacket for the first edition hardcover (and in some editions of the paperback). Clam’s reference sent me to dig it out (at least to see what was there) and as I re-read the book, I suddenly had one of those OMG moments that had certainly not occurred to me during my initial read of the book.

The protagonist is Mary Hope. At a point in time where every human excess has spiraled into the end of civilization, she ends up on an isolated farm situated in either Oregon or Washington (I think the former). Society collapses in on itself and Mary survives, living in isolation with Rachel Morrow, an artist who is possessed of both sense as well as sensibility.

My OMG moment was when I realized that The Gift Upon The Shore (published in 1990) had a great many parallels with Jane Eyre (published in 1847), if you view both as coming-of-age tales set in specific historical timeframes. There are decided echoes. Mary when she arrives at Rachel’s farm is young and naive, just like Jane upon her arrival at the Lowood school. Rachel imparts the same life wisdom to Mary as Helen Burns imparts to Jane. At some point (on the grounds of biological imperative for preservation of the species), Mary must leave the farm and travels to a religious community headed by a particularly fervent Prophet and his son who together serve the same narrative function as St. John Rivers plays in the Bronte narrative. Just as Jane refuses to marry St.John for the sake of his religion, so does Mary refuse to marry Luke and join the religious community. Ultimately Mary’s journey to independent selfhood does not perfectly mirror Jane’s; the cultural expectations of and differences between the fully-realized woman of the nineteenth century and the fully-realized woman of the twentieth century won’t support that. But both are portraits of women who achieve some degree of self-realization and self-sufficiency, within the specific constraints of the time.

One quick side-note -- I noted to my husband that one of the triggers of the crisis in Gift Upon The Shore was over-population. And yet, we don’t hear nearly as much in this current day about that as a trend of concern. He and I talked about what that might suggest about the here-and-now, but didn’t come up with any ideas that were particularly striking. It’s just that the things that worry me now are not the causes of civilization’s fall that were put forward by M.K. Wren. Whether rightly or wrongly, I don’t fret much about over-population or nuclear war. When I think about the fall of civilization, I am much more likely to attribute it to the break-up of sovereign nations with their different philosophical approaches in the face of social control defaulting to multi-national corporations. That sentence may tread too closely to the forbidden areas of religion and politics here in the Pub so I’ll just leave it there.

For my money, Gift Upon The Shore has aged fairly well -- even in 2016. It stands up to a re-reading and I think in part that is because I could detect the echo of Jane Eyre. Anybody who has read it recently have any feedback on my theory? (Dead silence and/or sound of crickets chirping or (depending upon where you are living) sound of cicadas rubbing their wings together might be deemed sufficient response.It is the end of August.)

Perhaps the above really belongs over on that post-apocalyptic thread. I didn't think about doing that in time...

You should copy and paste it over there....

I haven't read Gift, but the comparison to JE, perhaps unnecessary to add "one of my favorite novels", adds considerable interest.

On the other issue, I do wonder whether apocalyptic fiction makes it hard to avoid some of the off-limits material. Can we read it without assessing its plausibility? Are we able to take it as literature without adding our own thoughts, our areas of agreement and disagreement?

For myself (to hold as much as possible to books), while I am less worried about overpopulation than I was in my youthful exposure to books like The Population Bomb, I am acutely aware of the urgent pressure to maintain food production to feed 7 billion plus people. I read recently that world grain reserves stand at around three months' worth. It is an observation from history that population has fluctuated considerably based on a cycle of boom-and-bust related to famine and plenty. The more people, the more potential for catastrophe if supplies are interrupted. But was I was really going to say in response to your thoughtful take on the fall of civilization was that I share those concerns but also note that non-state actors operate with far fewer constraints on their activities than do state actors. Apologies if I have veered too close to the sun...!

>106 jillmwo: >109 stellarexplorer: *sirens blaring* Just kidding. You guys aren't even in the ballpark, so to speak.

>106 jillmwo: I had not thought of the Jane parallels, but I see them quite clearly now. (I haven't read Jane Eyre for a couple of decades, but I listened to the audio back in '08. So it's not completely gone from my brain.)

>106 jillmwo: A gift upon the shore is on my Tbr pile, and your comparison to Jane Eyre will move it nearer the top. JE is probably my favourite book of all time.

I'm glad you enjoyed Vanishing Point, btw.

Clip from my work related reading today:
http://www.pewinternet.org/files/2016/08/PI_2016.09.01_Book-Reading_FINAL.pdf

Or if you prefer to read the HTML version: http://www.pewinternet.org/2016/09/01/book-reading-2016/

Essentially, those of us who are reading are still preferring to do so via the print version. The percentage of those reading ebooks has largely leveled out and the bulk of that kind of reading is done on a tablet. 73% of Americans asked said they had read a book in the last twelve months.

That's quite interesting - I hadn't known that ebook readership had reached a plateau. Wouldnt have guessed.

The only result in there that surprised me is that 18-29 year olds were the group most likely to have read a book. But the last graph wasn't entirely clear. The text said that explicitly, but the final chart was labeled "% of U.S. Adults in each group who ..." and then gave categories for reasons for reading. So it wasn't entirely clear that this was a survey of percentages reading books or percentages reading in general for the purposes described.

The reason this surprised me is that as I observe people's reading habits in my own life, I find that younger people, (such as my teenaged kids and their friends, as well as others) are more likely to opt for another medium over books for taking in content, the most common among the being video/YouTube. Of course that is why it is risky to rely on anecdotal wisdom with limited objective verification. But still, were they really reading books?

And a follow-up clip:

"According to the NEA, the share of adults who report reading literature has steadily fallen in recent years, from 47 percent in 2012 to 45 percent in 2013 and 43.1 percent in 2015."

The study referenced is here: https://www.arts.gov/sites/default/files/aabs-research-brief-1.pdf (see page 5)
The quote itself came from https://psmag.com/we-are-reading-less-literature-17066cfaeb2d#.g6nj5hi2k

>112 jillmwo: Hmm. That's somewhat reassuring: print books aren't dead. Thanks for sharing this report.

More and more of the books that I want from the library, though, are available only electronically, and in those cases my recourse is Amazon.

Some of you may recall in the wake of my binge celebration of my Thingaversary that I was worried about how long it might take me to work my way through Kathryn Harkup’s excellent volume, A is for Arsenic. It’s a presentation of the various poisons that Agatha Christie used in her novels, and how those poisons affect human biological processes to the point of death. The author has a doctorate in chemistry, so you might understand how I’d fear (as a humanities person) that I wouldn’t be up to the challenge of grasping the actual science contained in Harkup’s work. That proved to be true to some extent but my own dim grasp of science was to blame rather than Harkup’s work. As a matter of fact, she did manage to educate me a little bit about toxins and their impact. In fact, I think you should all go out and read this one. Keep it on the shelf in case someone you love is hit by either digitalis or ricin. (Did you know Christie used ricin in one of her books? I didn’t. I’d always thought it was one of those new drugs developed in the age of bio-chemical warfare but ricin is rather older than that.)

Each chapter deals with a different poison and contains a series of sub-sections. These are:
-- The _____ story where she gives you some historical background on the specified poison;
-- How the particular poison kills;
-- Any available antidotes;
-- Some real-life cases of the poison’s use for purposes of murder;
-- Agatha Christie’s inclusion of the poison in a particular novel, including where she had errors in understanding.

The author’s professional expertise is used in discussing chemical structures and the ways in which the poison might short-circuit the body’s operation. The chapter on digitalis includes an excellent set of pages explaining how the heart works (including diagrams). To relieve the nerves of some, I can assure potential readers that the information specified by Harkup is never so detailed as to actually allow the text to serve as a DIY handbook. But I feel comfortable in noting that this work is probably as enjoyable as some of Mary Roach's scientific discussions. (So I'm targeting you, @clamairy and @MrsLee and other fans of Roach with this particular book bullet.)

BTW, if you’re on Twitter, you can follow the author there as @rotwangsrobot. Her tweets include shouting out the following about her activity: FIFTY THOUSAND WORDS. Not all of them are the right words. And they may not be in the right order. But 50,000.. (I’m sure some of the writers here on LT can identify with the emotional commitment to spitting out a manuscript in those 140 characters.) Harkup specializes in scientific communication and she’s currently writing about Dracula and Frankenstein so you know I’m going to buy her next works as soon as she alerts me to their publication. I love Frankenstein. (Minimal previews of her talks are available at: http://harkup.co.uk/talks.html) I'm keeping this one as a good reference; in fact, there's a useful appendix with a table of Christie's novels and the specific instances of poison's use as a weapon.

>116 jillmwo: Hi Jill! A is for Arsenic sounds wonderful. I'm a serious Agatha Christie fan and think the combination of forensics and Dame Agatha's books would be a really good read. Onto the wishlist it goes!

I can't remember which book has ricin offhand - care to spill the beans?

>116 jillmwo: Drat you, you dastardly shooter! Onto my wishlist it goes.

A is for Arsenic looks wonderful! One of the things that made me happy when I read Christie's autobiography was learning that she had real life pharmacy experience, so actually knew what she was talking about when it came to drugs and poisons.

Ok, paperback pre-ordered. Due in November. Another score to @jillmwo.

>117 karenmarie: It appeared in one of the Tommy and Tuppence short story collections. If you have an in-depth interest in Christie's work or if you might be quietly contemplating a useful murder, there is another reference in my collection, The Poisonous Pen of Agatha Christie, that is much more academic in its treatment of Christie and the use of poison in her works. Definitely more reference than something you'd sit down and read the way you would read A is for Arsenic.

>118 MrsLee:, >119 SylviaC:. and >120 pgmcc: my dearest buddies, it's called payback. You're welcome. And to be fair, I really am quite serious about looking forward to anything this woman writes about Frankenstein.

I am bringing a book to your attention, simply by virtue of a technique used by the author that I have only otherwise associated with Jane Austen. The book is entitled Crime at Christmas by C. H. B. Kitchin, initially published back in 1934. I actually stayed up late last night to finish it and hit the next-to-last chapter where the guilty party is revealed and immediately dies on-stage (so to speak). Very dramatically handled. So then I flip the page to get to the final wrap-up and rationale and the author suddenly switches from a first-person narration to an interview format between the reader and the narrator. It was entirely abrupt as a switch without any build-up for the reader and therefore not overly successful, although there was a certain degree of humor evident. But it did wake me up!

But it was just like the way that Jane Austen handled the ending of Lady Susan. Austen had done her novella as a series of letters exchanged. But she too (without preamble) used an entirely different narrative voice in the final chapter that told the reader essentially how all of the players had ended up. The work has been criticized for that structural twist.

I wonder if Kitchin was equally new to writing as a craft. For the record, I think the primary value of this one really is as a snapshot of life at the time. None of the characters are particularly engaging as one does pick up on a sense of entitlement pervading the atmosphere in the house. There is a muted tone to the Christmas celebration that doesn't match up with any of the Hallmark holiday commercials you get over here. The narrator is a stockbroker who is "invited" to share the holiday with his client and his family; he whines a bit much for my taste and, having injured his wrist in what appears to be a minor fall, seems to wallow in the fuss made over him through the three or four days he's with them. (By the way, the author presents Christmas as a not terribly chilly time of year over there. Folks are out watching fireworks with barely a wrap over their shoulders! What am I missing? I thought England was cold and dreary in December for the holidays, with snow blowing through the cracks of the window.)

Edited for punctuation and clarity.

>122 jillmwo: Winter weather in London was mild when I lived there: not usually below freezing, and with no plans in place for the ice that did happen to accumulate once when it dipped below freezing. The Gulf Stream helps. Other areas might be different. Ah, found this.

I've only read one of Sayers' mysteries. I think I might need to remedy that.

The Lies of Locke Lamora

The Lies of Locke Lamora is not a novel I could ever have written. That’s not surprising. I”m of a different generation and gender than the actual author; to further complicate the difference between our world views, I tend to be a stickler for adhering to the rules. The thing about Locke Lamora is that it is a novel about con artists and their capacity for flouting or circumventing rules (or at least rules that other people see as being reasonably settled upon for the common good). It’s an adventure novel along the lines of Scaramouche with themes that echo The Count of Monte Cristo, but this adventure story definitely upped the ante in terms of modern appeal.

The world building is amazingly well-done. I think that’s the aspect with which I’m most impressed. The lead character has brains and ingenuity -- as one expects a con artist would require in order to succeed. While not averse to violence, it’s not usually his leading gambit. He has no regrets about his conning others out of their money -- why would he? It’s the way of the world and the objective of the game is to amass more than anyone else and thereby win.

Come to think of it, there are just two takeaways from Lies of Locke Lamora. First of all, one must always remember that nothing is as it appears on the surface; secondly, one must always remember that the point of the exercise is to beat out everyone else. There’s no level playing field, and the wise player is constantly assessing the weaknesses of other participants. Roll the dice. Play the game. Bluff your opponents (if you can). Guard against their counter moves. It makes for a compelling and enjoyable read.

It’s a roller-coaster of a novel. It’s not however aimed at a female reader over the age of 40 and with a belief in the principles of order and fair play. In fact, I think that is the point. Locke Lamora is the very spirit of chaos and he doesn’t benefit from any idea of imposed order except by exploiting the trust that others have in that established order. The only important bonding in his world is that comradeship that ties together the Gentlemen Bastards. Unfortunately the novel gets darker by stages as it goes along in its tale of Lamora's band of masquerading thieves working their way up the towers of the wealthy and powerful.

I didn’t find Lies of Locke Lamora anywhere near as dark or as bloody as the novels in George R.R. Martin’s Ice and Fire series, because there is a certain thread of humor here that is not preent in Martin's work. But I suspect it's the same target audience because there’s a definite connection in the thinking of the two authors. It's all about power politics. (Final assessment is that I might one day read subsequent titles in the Gentlemen Bastards series, but I'm not so enamoured of them that I'll seek them out immediately.)

The shock of going from a book like The Lies of Locke Lamora to a book like Peril at End House is fairly significant. You move from a thoroughly realized fantasy world to a mystery novel where the author with some legitimacy assumed the reader would not need to have the specifics of her contemporary world supplied. You know the way of the world presented, because it is the world in which you live and details regarding dress, manners, etc. are largely superfluous. It’s only when that world disappears that the need arises for someone to make clear to the reader what’s missing from the page.

Christie doesn’t spend a lot of time on specifying particular details of behavior unless those play a role as clues. What is left unsaid is supposed to be supplied by the reader at point of need. And that works. As a mystery, there’s nothing wrong with Peril at End House. In fact, it has an excellent twist to it. There’s even a bit of character development that plays into the central point of the novel. Poirot notes that anyone can catch a murderer after the fact, but that it takes a particular talent to prevent the murder prior to the event. The fact that Poirot doesn’t manage to prevent a murder in time is upsetting, to the point where even Hastings is trying to bolster the little detective’s spirits. Christie even shows a bit of friction between Hastings and Poirot that underscores the two characters’ key behaviors. Poirot mocks Hastings’ conventional protests at the Belgian’s need to rifle through a young lady’s bureau drawers while Hastings gets a certain satisfaction out of the fact that the same young lady doesn’t appear to recognize Poirot as the international celebrity he fancies himself to be.

Peril at End House has a number of elements that date it -- references to hearing news over the wireless, excitement over around-the-world flights, even shops that promise to deliver same-day delivery of a dress to the purchaser. No wonder the teachers’ guide to this novel recommends explanation to students of what social conventions were in place. There must be something to supplement the inadvertent gaps in Christie’s world-building.

I'm planning to give The Lies of Locke Lamora to my son for Christmas. (It should be safe to say that here—it's unlikely that he would happen upon this one thread out of the whole internet.) I suspect he will probably fit within the target audience.

My sons and one of my daughters loved The Lies of Locke Lamora. (My other daughter did not read it.)

At my younger son's prompting, I read it. It was enjoyable but I will not be reading the sequels. I can understand how my kids liked it and why they read the sequels. I have the fourth book preordered for my youngest. It is due out here at the end of September.

>124 jillmwo: and >125 jillmwo: Hi Jill! I've added The Lies of Locke Lamora to my wishlist. And, it may be re-read time for Peril at End House. teacher's guide to this novel makes me realize that I'm getting old. Sheesh.

Hope you're doing well on this Wednesday.

>124 jillmwo: Great review. This doesn't sound like a series I'll try, but it does sound like a fascinating read.

Dreaming Spies

I discussed this one with the township library group this afternoon. I was somewhat but not entirely surprised that they didn’t fall in love with it. As a mystery, it has a really slow build and some of the negative reviews of Dreaming Spies centered around the problem presented by that style of pacing. The first two-thirds provides a solid introduction to the insular culture of Japan in the 1920’s, but that may well be insufficient to keep the reader’s attention. There’s not a whole lot of criminal activity in evidence until you make your way into the final section of the book whereupon readers encounter a murder accompanied by indications of forgery and blackmail. This is definitely more a book about the various geo-political tensions that form the basis for World War II than about solving a particular crime. It’s not immediately obvious but the “road” motif throughout the novel is supposed to reflect the road taken by various powers to that war. Russell and Holmes may aid the Imperial family in resolving a potentially embarrassing situation but the real meat of the story is about the conflicts of culture between two societies that have surface similarities. Both are class conscious societies, both are monarchies, both have the dignity of their historical heritage of accomplishment. But the codes of honor (while somewhat related) have differences in how they are acted out -- a situation made clear by the novel. This one may not be the best of King’s Russell-Holmes series, but it is an ambitious attempt to build a story that might transcend the genre.

Killer Verse: Poems of Murder and Mayhem

This is a rather -- errm -- interesting thematic collection of poetry that brings together verse about the act of murder. Not too many of the old ballads sung by anonymous medieval sources nor too many about Cain and Abel (although those too appear), but rather brief bits of crime noir that are not written to entertain, but shock and horrify. These are largely modern works that reference everything between infanticide and Esso gas stations. Honestly, that’s what makes it so unsettling and creepy. I got this because I thought I’d prepare for the onset of autumn with appropriately dark thoughts, but this is not a warm fuzzy read. However, it proves itself to be a memorable one. (And one that makes me think, EEEeeeuuuwww.)

Happy Autumnal Equinox...

>130 jillmwo: Dreaming Spies is one of my favorites, for precisely the reasons you stated, but I hesitate to recommend it for those same reasons. :)

Hi Jill!

I've read the first of the Sherlock Holmes/Mary Russell mysteries and remember liking it. In your opinion, do they have to be read in order? I've got 2-4 on my shelves.....

>132 karenmarie: I know I'm not Jill, but I have read all of the Russell/Holmes mysteries. Each book is a story/mystery unto itself, but the character/relationship development is very much in book order. So if you don't mind spoilers on how the relationship develops, reading order wouldn't matter, but if you like continuity and no spoilers, read them in order for sure. I have read them in published order, because I read them ASAP as they come out, but a couple (or one?) of the later books goes back to the beginning, so that would be up to your preference where to fit that one in.

>132 karenmarie: I seem to recall that I read the initial four or five Russell-Holmes novels roughly in order. I was late in finding The Beekeeper's Apprentice until it was out in paperback but know that I read Monstrous Regiment of Women in hardcover. By that time, I was thoroughly hooked and bought A Letter of Mary as soon as it came out, a big deal because I really couldn't afford to buy a lot of books at the time. I was late reading The Moor and then read the next two out of order. (There were distractions of children and work and other things. It might be a good idea to follow the series order for the first few installments.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for King's work. She does try to address more complex themes, whether personal to the individual or on a more cosmic geo-political or social level. Beyond her series work, I was totally blown away by A Darker Place, which was initially a stand-alone novel. That's not an exaggeration; it was a tremendously emotional and almost devastating read for me. (She did a subsequent novel called Folly with the character but I don't think it measured up in any way to its predecessor.) She has a remarkable way of examining how her protagonists must come to grips with severe trauma.

Oh, and don't let her fool you there in >133 MrsLee:. She's actually my evil twin, Skippy. (Or maybe it's the reverse because she's actually much nicer than I am. I'm HER evil twin, Skippy.)

"The Twins Called Skippy" Now there's a title for a book. I wonder what genre it would be in.

>135 pgmcc: Since there is a distinct possibility that we are both evil, I'm guessing horror? But I don't read horror, so maybe suspense. I think jillmwo and I could get a good du Maurier vibe going.

>136 MrsLee: and >135 pgmcc: Actually, my sons say I can get a specific expression on my face that is somewhat severe. I suspect that it's the "Mrs Danvers" look from Rebecca.

>136 MrsLee: & >137 jillmwo:

Based on your last comments I am thinking Gothic.

>137 jillmwo: I've been working on my Lady Catherine de Bourgh look, though a Mrs. Danvers one might be useful too.

And now for something completely different. I purchased from the Apple App Store a publication called iLondon which is an app that encompasses three short stories by Jack London. The titles included are:
--The Story of Keesh
--Moon-Face
--The Law of Life

Now I have never been a big fan of Jack London's stuff. It generally strikes me as being too stark. But this is one of those rare instances where the illustrations included in this particular app make London's story come alive for the reluctant reader. For example, go look at this example of the artwork on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/p/BDiwfeUBAlN/?hl=en

Now that's not romantic at all. But, The Law of Life, the particular story it illustrates isn't romantic at all either. It's actually rather bleak. But this morning I was late sitting down to my work desk because I was so caught up in the mix of artwork and London's prose. It seemed to me outstanding. (The other stories have different tones and thus different styles of artwork to accompany them.)

The people who created the app/book are with a company called iClassics Collection. See http://iclassicscollection.com/en/ilondon/. I don't know why these folks haven't done anything for Android...But I have purchased every single one of their publications. Ooops, that's not entirely true. I have avoided the Lovecraft, but there's nothing that could make me go back to Lovecraft. I need my sleep.

I'll talk about some other ghoulish tales later. I read Robert Louis Stevenson's story of the Body-Snatcher this week. And it's another instance of EEEuuueeewww.

Murder, mayhem, body-snatching, wolves, ghosts - Reading tied to the turning of the season to autumn is delectably depressing. (Speaking of murder, did you all see that Kenneth Brannagh is going to direct a movie version of Murder on the Orient Express? Isn't that nice?)

For those SF fans among you, this was today's Coffee Break Distraction (Fair Warning!)
http://blog.scienceborealis.ca/visionary-science-fiction-after-star-trek/
Follow all the contained links which amplify discussion.

>140 jillmwo: Oh great. I looked at that link just before I have to head down the hall to bed. Think I'll play Candy Crush for awhile.

>140 jillmwo: that instagram link image just gave me the heebie-jeebies. Unlike when MrsLee looked at it, it's daylight. I won't think of it when I go to bed tonight!

Well, for the sake of clarity, the illustration is of a tribe's dying chief; he is sitting alone in the snow and death is very close. That's what The Law of Life is about. Jack London didn't write soothing stories. (Although the other two stories in that collection are far less bleak.) But Law of Life is about a man weighing in his mind the instinct for survival against his own acceptance of death in the interest of allowing others to survive. It's bitterly cold, the fire is dying, and the wolves are closing in....

>144 jillmwo: I suppose I should have known, I have read all of London's short stories and felt suicidal afterwards.

>140 jillmwo: "The Body Snatcher" is my favorite RLS short story: super creepy.

Let's start with the “The Withered Arm” by Thomas Hardy. Less a ghost story than simply a story of an unhappy relationship triangle. The beautiful young bride of a well established man in town is (unconsciously) cursed by a village woman. Her son is the means by which the bride and the older (middle-aged) woman are brought together. The withered arm of the title is the result of the curse and the question in the mind of the reader is how the injury done may be relieved. Being that we’re talking about Thomas Hardy, you might reasonably assume that there is no relief to be had and the assumption would be a valid one.

Not a tale I’d choose to revisit. Not soothing, decidedly dreary in its telling, and the final punishment of death does not strike the one seemingly the most deserving of retribution. No ghost, but a sense of the inexplicable or the supernatural at work.

So move with me now over to Stevenson’s tale of “The Body-Snatcher’. Here we are initially met with the town sot, Fettes sitting in the local inn’s drinking parlour and on his fourth glass of rum. There is an encounter with a Dr. MacFarlane from London, called to the small town to care for a wealthy man, suddenly stricken. There are words spoken between the two with loud ill-will expressed by the drunken Fettes. Dr. McFarlane -- embarrassed -- seems not to harbor the same ill will, but he is at the same time rather anxious to get away from the company gathered in the doorway. What’s the history between these two? The next day, the narrator notes that Fettes shows up sober and serious, departing with only a minimal amount of alcohol in his system. His compatriots in the pub are so taken aback at this reform that they feel that they must pursue the truth.

Which man has the better ethical stance? The failed medical student who is aware of murderous acts and receives the cadavers of murder victims (but does nothing to stop the criminal behaviors) or the successful doctor who commits an act of murder and who is also aware of the criminal body-snatching activities? I’m not sure that this was the point of the RLS short story as the story itself ends with a paranormal twist. That said, it’s worth noting that the full length of The Body-Snatcher is given over to an examination of the moral concessions made by the student that ultimately lead to his failure. However, the student ultimately seems to grasp the heinousness of his behavior whereas we’re left to wonder if the doctor does. Yet the doctor appears to be the more successful individual in this life.

I am not sure that either Thomas Hardy or Robert Lewis Stevenson intended us to read these two stories as morality tales. They are supposed to be somewhat inexplicable, woo-woo tales of shock and horror. I’m not sure either short story really qualifies as ghost stories outside of that very loose definitions of ghost stories being tales of the human being wrestling with the Invisible. The Everyman’s Pocket Classic book of Ghost Stories edited by Peter Washington appears to be using that definition. No transparent white figures floating down a hallway -- just the unsettling prickles up and down the back of one’s neck.

More to come later this week...I did read yesterday M.R. James' short story "The Stalls of Barchester", which requires a re-read to decide whether he intended the story to be a playful shot at Trollope's affable and down-to-earth Barchester stories.

I should add that the short stories by Hardy and by James were NOT included in Ghost Stories referenced in the previous entry. The Hardy is available out on the open web and "The Stalls of Barchester" is available in the Collected Ghost Stories of M.J. James. But given the nature of the web, Stalls may also be out there on the Internet somewhere.

If you slurp down a book in a day, did you really read it?

Actually, yes. Growing up, my parents and teachers tried to trip me up on this all the time and it never worked.* I remembered what I read and I was and still am an exceptionally fast reader. The memory isn't what is used to be in the last couple of years due to age and/or meds, but until then, I had no problems.

*For instance, my father told me I could have a gerbil once I read a book on it and could answer any question he gave. A few hours later I said I was ready. He took the book from me and I answered all ten or so questions he asked perfectly (and some verbatim.) My much chagrined father took me to the pet shop the next day to get my gerbil. And, yes, I kept the information long term for some time as well.

I ended up getting two - Sam and Suzie - after the song Muskrat Love that was popular at the time. :D

sequel Penric and the Shaman

*perks* Sequel? I'm like you and thought Penric's Demon was just a nice distraction. But nothing wrong with a distraction and I'd love to know what happened next.

Ghost stories? Bennett Cerf's anthology Famous Ghost Stories was in the living room bookcase when I was a youngster, and I read some real chillers in it. I don't know what became of that copy, but a few years ago I found the same 1944 edition on Amazon. And some of those stories are still chillers.

One of the scariest stories I ever read, though, was in some other collection: "Don't Look Behind You" by Fredric Brown. It creeped me out for days and had me peering into shadows and tiptoeing past trees and bushes. Because it broke the equivalent of the theatre's "fourth wall," it was just plausible enough to unnerve me as a young single woman who lived alone and went about on foot, often after dark.

That Fredric Brown story is apparently quite well-known, based on what I found by Googling it. Lots of people found it just as unsettling as you, @Meredy. I checked Amazon for anthologies or collections that might contain the full text, and the collection of his work that I could immediately locate started at $58.00 for a used mass market paperback. (See Carnival of Crime: The Best Mystery Stories of Fredric Brown.)

I will have to continue rummaging about. ($58.00 is a bit pricey for my tastes these days.) There is another paperback at $25.00 entitled Miss Darkness: The Great Short Crime Fiction of Fredric Brown that has it. Sadly, no Kindle edition though.

>151 jillmwo: There might be a couple of more options for the Frederic Brown story on this link that you might not have been aware of.

>151 jillmwo: And you have to read it in print, not electronically.

I'm bummed. Penric and the Shaman is a Kindle novella and I can't get it from the library. :(

>152 AHS-Wolfy: Wolfy, you're amazing. Thank you for that link!!

>153 Meredy: I will commit to reading it in print. (Although is it permitted to ask why that's important?)

>154 Morphidae: I know. It's a real irritant when that turns out to be the case. The only print version of which I'm aware is off in the distance and is due from a specialized small press. Not immediately accessible by any stretch.

>155 jillmwo:, uh...no. I mean, ok, ask, but I won't be telling.

I don't know how many of you may be familiar with JSTOR but they have a fabulous blog. This entry is from a day or two back, and I thought it might appeal here:
http://daily.jstor.org/a-belief-in-ghosts-poetry-and-the-shared-imagination/

Here's another entry that's about Octavia Butler's work
http://daily.jstor.org/when-science-fiction-becomes-real-octavia-e-butlers-legac...

That's your coffee break distraction for the day.

>157 jillmwo: We have access to a couple of the JSTOR collections at work, but I didn't know about the blog.Thanks for the heads-up! The Butler article has convinced me to move Parable of the talents up my tbr pile - I read Parable of the sower last year and thought it was excellent.

>157 jillmwo: Hi Jill! Thanks for the JSTOR link, I wasn't familiar with it.

I just read Wild Seed by Butler and really liked it.

I recently picked up Octavia E. Butler by Jerry Canavan via NetGalley but had to stop reading because it is full of spoilers for books of hers that I have not yet read.

And look what I found today! A Halloween "advent" calendar:
http://www.oldstyletales.com/single-post/2016/10/05/31-Classic-Horror-Stories-Ev...

And not recommending the same-old, same-old stories.

Ooh, that is very, creepily cool.

>162 jillmwo: What a great find! Thank you.

I read the October 15th selection many, many years ago, and it was among the first of its sort that I ever read. Even now I can remember the creepy feeling it gave me. Most of these are new to me. I think I will do this. Will you? Who else?

Work being what it is at the moment, I'm just dipping in now and again to various short stories as those can be done in a single sitting. However, I will say that one of the short stories referenced on that site, @Meredy, was one entitled The Horla by Guy de Maupassant. Now I happened to have read that short story just this morning in the volume Ghost Stories referenced above in #147. Initially, I'd found it rather hard to get into. Today I read it in full and I'm amazed that I'd had that initial reaction. It's very nearly science fiction -- more about the Invisible Alien than about those wispy spirits of the dead. Not gothic, but certainly alarming...

If you like feeling the hair on the back of your neck prickle just a bit, consider this quote below. The narrator has just awakened in the middle of the night:

At first I saw nothing, and then suddenly it appeared to me as if a page of the book, which had remained open on my table, turned over of its own accord. Not a breath of air had come in at my window, and I was surprised and waited. In about four minutes, I saw, I saw - yes I saw with my own eyes - another page lift itself up and fall down on the others, as if a finger had turned it over. My armchair was empty, appeared empty, but I knew that He was there, He, and sitting in my place, and that He was reading. With a furious bound, the bound of an enraged wild beast that wishes to disembowel its tamer, I crossed my room to seize him, to strangle him, to kill him! But before I could reach it, my chair fell over as if somebody had run away from me. My table rocked, my lamp fell and went out, and my window closed as if some thief had been surprised and had fled out into the night, shutting it behind him.

Read that short story and then you may find yourself like >142 MrsLee: needing to play an hour or so of Candy Crush before you're able to fall asleep. Do any of your much-cherished books come alive in the hands of some Invisible Force?

I can't imagine how I never properly processed that short story before. It's a chain-jerker, for sure. Speaking of which, >150 Meredy:, a used book containing that Fredric Brown story you and @AHS-Wolfy recommended is en-route to me. If I die of fright after having read it (in print as you recommend), I shall most assuredly come back to haunt the Pub. As a thoroughly grumpy, grey-haired librarian in spectacles. Just like the librarian ghost at Columbia University in Ghost-busters!

Speaking of which, why don't we have any ghosts in the Pub? Isn't that a thing? Oughtn't it to become a thing? What type of ghosts actually haunt pubs in the UK and Ireland? Based on what I read of Edinburgh in conjunction with reading The Body-Snatcher, I'm sure there are plenty 'round and about Scotland.

Edited to Add: There is apparently a trilogy of novellas written by Maupassant ,known (as one might guess) as The Horla trilogy. One of my favorite boutique publishers, Melville House, has published the trilogy in its wonderful series, The Art of the Novella. I have ordered the print volume, to see what's going on in the madman's mind. Had any of you known that Maupassant died of syphilis? He was only 43 years old when he died and he apparently wrote this as he was succumbing to the disease. Yet another horrifying element added to the literary trivia.

Maybe I should go read some of the more soothing Hercule Poirot short stories....

I think our ghosts are more like Casper or Slimer (Ghostbusters) than scary ones!

>165 jillmwo: Boy, that narrator really doesn't like sharing his books! Whatever it was wasn't even bending the corners down!

>165 jillmwo: The Horla was the first Maupassant story I read. I have re-read it a number of times and your comments are likely to have caused me to read it again.

In terms of hauntings in pubs and the like, my wife and I went to dinner in a restaurant on Montpelier Hill in the Dublin mountains. It is near a building called The Hellfire Club. (See picture below)



The Hellfire Club was the scene of much debauchery and Satanic practices. As the story goes the Devil appeared one night and the place was destroyed by fire and has never been used since other than as a destination for walks, ghost tours and sightseeing.

What has this to do with the local restaurant?

Well, the building in which the restaurant is located was built using rubble from the Hellfire Club after its great fire. People have seen a black cat in the building on various occasions and it is rumoured to be the spirit of the Devil in feline form. Bwahahahahahah!

The website here describes nine haunted pubs in Dublin. I have been in three of them (Mulligans, The Gravediggers (Kavanaghs), and The Lord Edward.) My trip to The Gravediggers was part of a Dublin Ghost Tour. I did not encounter any of the ghostly residents on my visits but I can vouch for the quality of the Guinness in those establishments.

I did not know that Maupassant died of syphilis.

I did know that he had a mentor in the person of Gustave Flaubert, author of Madame Bovary amongst other works. Apparently Flaubert was a close friend of Maupassant's mother and she asked Flaubert to advise her son on his writing. It was through Flaubert that Maupassant gained entry into the literati of the time. Suggestions that there was any romantic connection between Flaubert and Maupassant's mother was strenuously denied by the academic who wrote the foreword in which I found this nugget of information. The effort Flaubert put into supporting Maupassant was obviously down to the level of goodwill Flaubert had towards the younger man. ;-)

The Hellfire Club is also an excellent novel by Peter Straub.

Yes, well, today we received the printed copy of the anthology containing Don't Look Behind You by Fredric Brown (see >150 Meredy: and >152 AHS-Wolfy: above). As my afternoon coffee break, I sat down to read the short story, even though I was ALONE in the house. @Meredy is right that it must be read in print, and she's right that it was entirely creepy. While not frightened to death by it (hence no haunting), the story has got a specific vibe to it that makes it memorable. I don't want to say more than that because one doesn't want to spoil it for anyone else, but I do think it's brilliant construction. When my pulse stops racing, I may have to give it a re-read to properly analyze it. But not today as the darkness is faliing...

I may have to resort to Jane Austen or some soothing historical non-fiction to get things calmed down.

>170 jillmwo: If I were a user of emoticons, I would give you a row of grins.

Not, of course, menacing grins. Nope, not I.

>170 jillmwo: Glad you managed to find a copy and more importantly enjoy the story.

>170 jillmwo: My husband loves Fredric Brown's scifi stories. He's looking to see if that one is in one of his collections. Since this is my DNBR day, I will attempt it if we have it.

Now trying to figure out if I want to read non-fiction about adultery in Jane Austen's time or if I'd rather read a low-key travelogue/archaeological tale like The Road to Ubar, which has concrete ties to Josephine Tey's The Singing Sands. The moment Josephine Tey's mystery novel is winning. Predictable with a certain sense of an ordered universe, and it justifies the wicked expense of the used Folio Society edition which arrived today.

Last year I bought upper-end handbags; apparently this year, I've bought Folio Society editions. I don't know if I can afford 2017.

And my thanks to all who offered good wishes for my mom's health. She's back home now, and being as stubborn as ever.

>174 jillmwo: Stubborn is good. Glad to hear your Mum is back home.

Your comments on your book choices reminded me of the extract from one a schoolboy's exam paper:
"The joys of infancy are great but they are nothing to the joys of adultry,"

Hi Jill!

I'm glad to hear your Mom is back home now. Stubborn is good. My Mom's been having health problems recently and we are seeing her feistiness come back too.

>168 pgmcc: and >169 Bookmarque: - Fascinating info, Jill and thanks for sharing. I was just able to score a Bookmooch copy of Peter Straub's The Hellfire Club.

Recent Reads: Not one of which I can speak to in any great depth. It’s been a really, really busy period.

The Talented Mr. Ripley - For me, this one prompts consideration of how much sympathy an author can create in the reader for an unlikeable protagonist; Tom Ripley is a con artist (small-time) but seemingly has a winning opportunity when a wealthy man wants Tom to travel to Europe to bring home his son. Tom samples the life of the privileged and wants to sustain it. The rest of the story involves murder, hints of homosexuality, and deception. But why or how does the author manage to make us care about what happens to Tom?

The Amateur Cracksman - a precursor to Ripley, but much nicer in how he views the world he's conning. Raffles is a gentleman who has no means of support. He steals jewels but does so in situations where the missing item won’t hurt the individual’s chances at survival or success. He too wants to make his way in the world without grubbing. Yet Raffles and Bunny, his sidekick, have a modicum of good intentions and ethics.

The Singing Sands -A re-read. I had a hard time immersing myself in this, even though I love the book. The book has as its central theme a discussion of losing one’s center, and then re-orienting oneself in terms of the outside world, tied in part to the particular location in which one feels most at home. There is a crime to be solved by Detective Alan Grant but it’s a literary device and not the real point.

Labors Of Hercules (Agatha Christie) Short stories, albeit not particularly memorable work. Building the collection around the twelve labors of the hero, Hercules, is a bit “cute” for my taste. There was the one where Poirot is stranded in a ski resort in Switzerland…

Mrs. McGinty’s Dead (Another Christie) Operating w/o Hastings, Poirot has to solve a current crime as well as work out the connections between his case and another one that goes back in time. Most of the key characters are not particularly memorable, but we do get to see Ariadne Oliver.

Way too much stuff simmering in the various pots on the stove of daily existence.

Way too much stuff simmering in the various pots on the stove of daily existence.

Wonderfully put!

Hi Jill!

I agree with Jim, wonderfully put! I've got way too much going on, too, and now have to contend with a (*shudder*) Trump Presidency on top of RL!

Agatha Christie is one of my comfort authors, and I have always enjoyed Josephine Tey.

I don't think Agatha Christie mysteries will be sufficiently comforting reads this week. They posit a long-vanished and seemingly simpler world and I live in a complicated one. Let me moan a little bit about my library discussion group.

As I think I posted elsewhere in the Pub, I had compiled a list of 67 mystery titles published in the years 2013-2015. I winnowed that list down to 30 of what I thought might be the most likely titles to be available for borrowing from other libraries within our county system. I then asked my library liaison to review it and let me know what quantities of those titles might be accessible for our book group's use. Now mind you, I have a group of 9-12 women, which translates to an ideal number of roughly 10 copies for practical use in lending out. I have just gotten finished with the list returned to me by the librarian.

Of the thirty titles I listed, about of third are not owned by any library within the county system. Of the remaining two-thirds, only six titles have the requisite number of copies available. Those six are best-selling authors, but not necessarily award-winning authors. In fact, some of the Edgar-winning authors have fewer than five copies of their award-winning book in our system. Further, of the titles where there were 10 copies in the system, only 2 had large print editions available in the system. I have to come up with a list of nine titles for the nine sessions that the library is willing to support and only six of the titles I had specified meet the basic requirements. And right now, I've got six.

Excuse me while I strike my best Shakespearean pose and quote King Lear, "Blow, winds, blow and crack your cheeks. Rage!." That's a bit more melodramatic than it needs to be perhaps, but when you're trying to provide a satisfying experience to female library patrons of a certain age and when you know that there are certain types of books that they just don't want to read, then it's depressing to look at those numbers. Days like this make me wonder why I bother. Except that I know these women look forward to the monthly gathering, and rely on the group as a means of fending off isolation.

*sigh* Yes, it is a first world problem. And, in terms of baseline priorities, providing reading materials isn't on a par with the priority of providing food or shelter to the homeless. I'm not preventing orphans from being deported or standing as the lone protester in the way of armored tanks. The limitations on libraries are long standing. I work in the industry and I have a basic handle on the economics. But it is still depressing.

The next time you visit your library, say something encouraging to the person working the circ desk. It's got to be a lousy gig these days.

>180 jillmwo: My county's library system is small, and the book club options are very limited. Almost exclusively award-winning Canadian literary fiction. Book club membership is also small, so there aren't any groups catering to individual interests. It must be a real struggle for the library staff to select each month's books.

Good luck finding the rest of your books!

>180 jillmwo: Glenda Jackson is returning to drama after her excellent political career as an MP in the British House of Commons. She will be playing King Lear. I mentioned this to my wife and she said, "Oh! Chickspeare!"

>180 jillmwo: This occurred to me while reading your post, and I'm sure you have probably thought of it and discarded the thought, but would it be possible for 1/2 of the group to read one book, while the other 1/2 (or even 1/3s) read another, thence limiting the number of copies needed? They could then report at the monthly gathering to the other groups on their read? Just a thought.

>182 pgmcc: LOL

>182 pgmcc:, I take it you married a woman who loves puns as much as you do. The joy you spread with such wit at cocktail parties and family gatherings is undoubtedly well-received. *snort*

>183 MrsLee:, It's an idea. I'm thinking about it. You know, we have DNBR days; why should we not think of a good way to have DNBTAB days? (DNBTAB: Do Nothing But Talk About Books). Book groups are just 60-90 minutes of that kind of activity.

>181 SylviaC: I did finally manage to come up with nine titles. And really it wasn't so very difficult, given a bit of thought. I suppose I just wanted to indulge my own bit of melodramatic self-pity.

Hi Jill.

You really had me going with the pity once you pulled out Shakespeare..... I'm glad you came up with the 9 titles. Share?

Our book club is a combination of women who just go out and buy the book, women who price shop THEN buy the book, and the women who get it from the library or borrow the book from those of us who buy the book. It all works out in the end.

>184 jillmwo: Isaac Asimov's short story, Jokester, tells the story of a researcher analysing humour. His computer aided analysis comes to the conclusion that puns are the only purely human form of humour and that every other form of joke or witticism is implanted in our brains by aliens. My puns are simply an expression of my humanity.

;-)

>182 pgmcc: and etc. My husband is amazed that I come up with the greatest puns but don't realize it until after I've said them. He just shakes his head in wonder.

>187 karenmarie: You're a natural!

My husband and I are both punsters. Mine are the more average, every day, kid type that you hold your nose and groan over and they happen frequently. His are more rare, more thoughtful, and they are the type that you either stare at him in horror over or break out into hysterical laughter.

>189 Morphidae: So conversation in your home is pun-ishment?

>190 hfglen: Ha ha. Very punny.

>188 pgmcc: An infrequent natural, Peter. When my husband was working at Nortel with his friend Geoff, they would pick a topic and pun their way through lunch. We still get together with Geoff and his wife Diane and Bill and Geoff sometimes get going and it's so much pun, er.... fun.

>192 karenmarie: That happens in our house with my sons. One of them is studying Electrical Engineering and that is a great source of current affairs, etc...

>193 pgmcc: that could be re-volt-ing.

>194 hfglen: way to amp up the level. you'll meet no resistance here!

I'm shocked!

>192 karenmarie: See what I mean?

Electrifying posts . . .

It's just impossible to insulate oneself from this sort of behaviour.

What's Jill going to say when she gets back and sees what we've done with her thread? There'll be sparks.

You people need someone to keep you grounded.

Oops... did I short-circuit the thread?

(Don't do this to me. Electrical engineering was my fave in high school. I can solder on all night.)

There's no resin to go on.

Should we switch to a different topic?

If we keep this up, we'll all get charged with battery.

Let's all calm down now. Everyone say "Ohhhhhhhmmmmm." It's the law.

I'm giggling so hard it hertz.

>204 SylviaC: Are you positive? There seems to be some resistance to that charge in the circuit courts lately.

I'd put in a plug for reducing the frequency of these posts, but surely someone would re-fuse.

Well, this has certainly been enlightning.

Watt have we started here?

This topic appears to have generated a lot of energy.

OMG Kids! What's been going on in here?

(For the record, I see those shifty-eyed-looks going between you @pgmcc, @hfglen, @karenmarie, @Jim53, @LolaWalser, @Marissa_Doyle, @Meredy, @stellarexplorer, @SylviaC, @ScoLgo, @jnwelch, @Morphidae. And I'm pretty sure I can tell who the ringleader was...)

Honestly, I'd claim to be shocked, but @SylviaC already used that one...

>182 pgmcc: and >187 karenmarie: - >212 jillmwo: *smile*

This is what you get when you don't show up on your own thread for 4 days. To borrow from >206 Marissa_Doyle:, I'm laughing so hard it hertz.

This reminds me of that old saying, often heard during my school days, "Run! Here comes the teacher!"

Hahaha, I wondered what was happening in this thread with all the new posts. A Pun-fest!

Here, have some more Shakespeare! Claudius had a flow chart for how to kill off Hamlet in the final act...
http://www.shakespeareflix.net/2016/08/claudiuss-flow-chart-for-duel-in-hamlet.h...

>216 jillmwo: That reminds me of a wonderful app I have on my iPhone. It's called "To Be or Not To Be", and it is a choose your own adventure version of Hamlet. You can play as Hamlet, Ophelia, or Hamlet's father.

Oh, I want that one! I will have to look for it on the weekend.

It's called "Ryan North's To Be or Not To Be." I think I paid about $8 for it, but it was worth it. It can be quite time consuming.

>212 jillmwo: Surely you didn't expect things to remain static in your absence . . .

>81 clamairy: Not to drag things back to bitter reality, but I'm sure this is one of the main reasons why the book group I used to attend for many years (but couldn't for the last three or so) has gone on hiatus. The facilitator had too much trouble getting enough copies through our state's ILL service. (The website for which has been offline for almost a year while the program undergoes changes.) I think it will be a mere shadow of its former self when (if) it does return.

Okay, now you can resume your shenanigans. ;o)

>220 Meredy: I don't think Jill was expecting quite such an electrifying experience.

>219 SylviaC: An app? I have that as a book, cool to make it into an app!

>223 zjakkelien: How big is the book? It must be huge if it has all the endings. I see on Amazon that there is a book for Romeo and Juliet, too.

>224 SylviaC: It's pretty fat, with funny illustrations. You can play as several people, and I spend some time reading the most important story lines. Often enough, if there are several choices, most branches are very short, but one continues, so I would try to follow several. Otherwise it becomes quite repetitive...

>219 SylviaC: I went ahead and got the app. I've chortled over it happily and taken turns being Ophelia, Hamlet and The Ghost. Frivolous amusement is heartily welcome.

>226 jillmwo: I find it a handy little diversion when I have a few minutes to fill.

Lunchtime diversion for you all! Again, I had to do my Best Book of 2016 for the industry blog of which I'm a part. Were you wondering what I picked? If so, click through on https://scholarlykitchen.sspnet.org/2016/11/22/chefs-selections-the-best-books-r...

If you're not on lunch break or if you are thinking about other important matters (like prepping for Thanksgiving or fretting over the freaky weather patterns), feel free to ignore this notice....

Oh, and I did read Connie Willis' novella, All Seated On The Ground this past week. Not bad as fluff goes, but not a particularly memorable read. She did have a point though. (I like reading things that have a point.)

>228 jillmwo: Is Connie's point memorable?

>228 jillmwo: I still want to read your chosen book. It should be available for interlibrary loan by now, so hopefully I can get it sometime soon.

>229 pgmcc: Is her point memorable? Let me put it this way. You think she's going to do something hackneyed with aliens finally arriving on earth with music being the universal language that brings people together, but she gives it a good twist. If you think you might read it, don't click on the spoiler tag. The moral of the story is that we are most harmonious during the Christmas season when we gather to sing together without reference to a particular creed or tradition. The emphasis of the holiday season is to come together as one when the effort ceases to be about the words and instead is about courtesy and sharing as a group. .

It manages a nice holiday message and doesn't totally lapse into sappiness.

>230 SylviaC: It stands up to a second reading eight months later.

>231 jillmwo: I would agree with that sentiment. It does, however, resonate with the sentiment of the book I am currently reading, Albert Camus's The Fall. The book is about being totally honest about one's inner motivation. This is along the line that all charity is driven by the selfish desire to feel good about oneself. He hasn't said that exact phrase but a quote I read this morning plays with that kind of paradox:

"I realized that modesty helped me to shine, humility to triumph and virtue to oppress."

I enjoyed reading one of Connie Willis's works but I do not think I will be going out of my way to read more. There are so many other authors whose work I want to read Connie is not making it into the leading pack.

She was one of the guests at WorldCon 2005 in Glasgow. I attended any sessions in which she was a panelist as she proved to be very pleasant, interesting, and had a good sense of humour.

I like the hidden one-liner from Camus, @pgmcc! The Willis' novella is a bit of light cheer which isn't bad at this time of year. (I'm not sure I'd be up for anything more challenging than that.)

In the meantime, I've been busy, having baked pumpkin bread and gingerbread. I'll do a chocolate loaf cake this afternoon as well as some good homemade chicken soup for dinner. Going to pretend that I need to fatten up the offspring (as if he isn't capable of fending for himself).

Thanksgiving isn't going *quite* as planned, but some years you just have to roll with what you've got.

I hope that your not-quite-as-planned Thanksgiving is a happy one, Jill.

I made a pumpkin pie and a pecan pie yesterday for the traditionalists in the family, but chocolate loaf cake sounds absolutely yummy. I might make a chocolate pound cake on Friday.....

Sticking with novellas at the moment in the press of other activities but must also finish the book for tomorrow's library discussion group (which is a full length novel). I am somewhat satiated by Agatha Christie at the moment, but it is interesting at times to see how she managed her various narratives.

I heartily agree with your choice of Best Book--it really is wonderful on many levels.

Also, I'm an unabashed Connie Willis fangirl and have also been re-reading her novellas recently (after finishing her latest, Crosstalk.) I'd vote Inside Job as her best novella effort.

There! I'm done with all the obligations of the Thanksgiving weekend! Just got home from today's library book discussion of The Language of the Dead which is set in World War II England. (Imagine the tension arising from expectations of bombing raids coming at any time during the day).

As the first in a series, there was a danger that the murder itself would be too readily subsumed in the interest of presenting the ensemble of characters upon which the series would be built, but there was far less of that and handled far less clumsily than most. Given that before we were done, there were three corpses across some 250 pages, I was glad that no one was too appalled by the various plot points having to do with themes of abuse -- domestic and otherwise. But the women at the library commented on how well the book read in terms of pacing and holding the interest of the reader and did say they'd read another by Stephen Kelly. Detective Chief Inspector Lamb and one of his cohorts have memories of World War I which play into their reactions to the general environment. Fans of the PBS series, Foyle's War, will undoubtedly enjoy this series. I will say his descriptive prose in setting the locale is quite good.

>236 Marissa_Doyle: I will seek out Inside Job, given your sound recommendation. I am very nearly done with my current supply of novellas, so the suggestion is most welcome. Given that you write full length books (and congratulations on the new representation you mentioned somewhere!), does the form of the novella ever appeal to you? Or do you think you'd find it either (a) too constraining in terms of creativity or (b) lacking in terms of economics (sales potential)? I ask because it's not easy to identify short narratives in the marketplace and I wonder if the short form is just generally viewed as un-marketable. For me, at least, during the busier seasons, such are the most manageable reading material. What can I read in just a two-hour or other single seating?

>221 clamairy: Your point regarding the challenge of finding reading material for reading groups in straitened circumstances is well-founded. My other group has decided that they'd prefer to not pay more than $4.99 per title each month. That imposes all kinds of challenges. Now I'm wondering if there's not a market trend that's running under the surface. I think I asked at Thanksgiving dinner what the top price that people were willing to pay for an ebook and the general consensus was that the ceiling really was $9.99. Anything more for ebooks would meet with real price resistance.

>237 jillmwo: I've sworn not to pay more than $6.00 for an ebook, and I stick to it faithfully. The idea of e-readers in the first place still bothers me, and this is how I express it. Insist upon it, actually.

In your group, though, isn't there any chance that people could share resources?

But why, @Meredy? Speaking just from your own perspective, why is the content in digital form worth less to you as a reader? (Apart from the price of the device itself, that is.) If the specific interface -- whether print or app -- permits you to engage with the content appropriately (that is, the format doesn't pose itself as a barrier to what you need to be able to do with the content), then why the price resistance? Shouldn't we expect as consumers to pay the same amount for either print OR digital?

I am very aware myself that if I need to read something for purposes of comprehension, retention, review and analysis, then I may well prefer to do so in print. And I myself have a certain degree of price resistance that is invoked when I know that I am licensing access to a file rather than paying to own the physical item. There are a different set of rights and privileges that I receive as the consumer, depending upon which I choose.

But the publisher still has to perform the same set of tasks in taking the author's work from manuscript to finished product. That's not changed, nor has the process been made cheaper. Shouldn't we as consumers expect to pay the same amount for the content, regardless of format? That's not a challenge, but rather I'm really trying to work through the problem myself -- if only because I simply CANT continue to purchase the same work twice -- once in each format. And yet, I want to be free to work with any content in whatever way I may feel I need to do upon any given occasion. And I do resent publishers trying to wring profit from that just as much as I resent them charging full price for content when I know perfectly well that the author is dead and therefore not getting the same price paid in royalties. (Can you tell I still haven't come to grips with this? I don't want to cheat either writer or publisher, because I value their labor, but I do get cranky when I can't afford the books I want when I want.)

So help a girl out! Can one of you people help me by explaining how best to come to grips with working this out in fairness to all?

BTW, to answer your question about sharing of resources, Meredy, in print there was a certain amount of that done throughout the private group and with minimal (but still with some bit of) resentment.

After all, borrowing/sharing too imposes its own set of constraints. How good is the library that one can borrow from? If borrowing from another member in the book group, how convenient is the hand off to make (and on whose head should it be to work it all out)? And what if its only ONE member who is always the one borrowing? (You must know the drill. And it's a book group after all. What's the point of having a book group if not to share books and ideas, but we all know sharing simply won't always be without its frictions. It's hard enough to teach children how to share; if we haven't got it yet as adults, is there any hope for humankind at all?)

By the way, >185 karenmarie:, I will eventually share what we ended up with for the library group in 2017. But before that, I do need to do something about fixing dinner pretty soon.

>239 jillmwo:

Well, for one thing, you can resell a physical book.

I will not pay more than $10 (and that only if I REALLY want to read it immediately),and usually far less for an ebook.

Here's why. It doesn't seem substantial to me. I still have the thought in the back of my head that the internet and everything about it might disappear one day. The physical books I purchase I can loan to a friend, find references easily, leave to my children and feel in my own two hands. They are mine, precious. Ebooks only feel borrowed or temporary.

Also, it doesn't seem to me that reproducin ebooks, once they are made, involves the same costs and resources as physical books.

I realize there are argumentsome against this, but I can't help what is in my head.

That said, I have an abundance of books, so any purchasing is more luxor than necessity. If it is a book I am chancing by an unknown author, I won't spend much on it whether it is physical or ebook.

>239 jillmwo: Speaking just from your own perspective, why is the content in digital form worth less to you as a reader?

I think this is a complicated topic and probably varies by individual. For me it's two fold.

First it comes down to production costs. Electronic books do not have to deal with printing, shipping, warehousing fees, return fees or the cost associated with books that fail to sell after they've shipped to stores. Unless you're talking print on demand, electronic books also do not have to have a minimum number to even have a print run of your book. Since digital distribution eliminates these fees, I as a consumer expect this cost savings to be passed on to me. I would also be happy with the author getting a bigger cut but I would bet that doesn't usually happen. Can anyone in the industry confirm this?

Second is, digital rights management (DRM). I get it, publishers and authors want to protect their works and with good reason. This has drawbacks for consumers:

• Hidden limits to the number of devices a user can load their ebook onto. 6 copies is generally the magic number. If you have a lot of devices or like to change devices frequently, you can lose access to your books once you reach your download limit.


• Bought the book for your Nook and now you want to go Kindle? Have to rebuy the book.


• Time-limit access. Mostly this will just be library lending, which makes sense. But what if the place you bought the ebook from goes out of business or looses the distribution rights of the book you purchased? Your copy could also go poof.


• Prevents book lending. My family frequently shares books. That is hard or impossible to do with ebooks.

For the reasons above I will never be willing to pay as much or more for an ebook vs a physical one no matter how much more convenient electronic format is.

Everything that people have said above. When I buy a physical book, I own that object, and can do anything I want with it, except copy it for gain or whack someone over the head with it. Well, technically, I could do those things, but not legally. But I can lend it or give it away. I can display it as an art object. I can resell it. I can use it as a component of a book fort. I can read it as many times as I want, no matter how much technology changes or what companies go out of business. When I buy a physical book, I am buying more than just the content—I am also buying the object itself, and all the rights inherent in ownership. When I buy an ebook, I buy access to content, convenience, and variable font, which all have value, but are of less value to me than outright ownership.

I still like and stockpile ebooks, and have over 400 of them on my Kindle, and at least another hundred in ePub format. I could probably count on one hand how many of them I paid over $5 for. It has to be something that I want to read very badly, right NOW, that isn't readily available to me in a solid copy. But at $2 or $3 apiece (or better yet, free), I'll toss then into my virtual cart with reckless abandon.

I'm another one - I struggle to pay more than £5 for an ebook for all the reasons stated above. If I want the book that much and it's that expensive, I'll pay slightly more and buy the physical copy.

Here in the UK, physical books are exempt from tax - but ebooks aren't. This isn't the booksellers' fault, but this adds 20% tax to the price and goes some way to closing the theoretical pricing gap between formats. It's arguably a great way to push physical book sales, although I don't think that's what the government had in mind ;)

I'm conflicted about e-books and have less than 100 on my reader, compared to over 4,500 physical books. On the one hand the publisher has to create a file once and feed to an interface that's a computer program and doesn't take any ongoing maintenance to disseminate. On the other hand, the author put her/his heart into a book and deserves commensurate royalties to print books.

Since I actually prefer physical books to e-books and have only read one e-book out of 87 this year, it's not a huge issue to me. However, I don't think I've paid more than $9.99 for an e-book so far.

>237 jillmwo: Funny you should ask about novellas, Jill, because I've been working on a--um, I don't know if it would be called a series or a serial--of linked novellas that can be read individually and provide a satisfying story, but also contain a larger story arc (or two) that develop over their course. From a writing standpoint, I'm enjoying the heck out of them--it means being able to play with lots of fun research and plots and characters while still be anchored with a core cast and that bigger developing plot (these are adult historical fantasy.)

Unfortunately novellas individually are a hard sell for print--they take as much labor and development as a full length book in terms of production etc. etc., but can't be priced to reflect that. On the other hand, I think they're a natural for e-books for all the reasons you've stated--and I'm willing to bet there IS an audience of e-book readers similar to you who would like this idea of a series that can be read in manageable chunks and provide that "complete" reading experience over a couple of hours. I would love to convince Shiny New Agent Lady to find a publisher to take on my series, releasing them individually in e-book, then doing print compilations of them in sets of 4 or so (they're in the 20-30K word range.) But we're working on getting a YA ready for submission first...and publishing is a very risk-averse industry, alas.

I'm with what Narilka, SylviaC and imyril said.

I'd like to add, as well, that indie authors and small presses influence consumers' perspectives on pricing as well, though this is likely to depend on individual experience. Indie ebooks are often priced between $0.99 and $5.99 and there are quite a few of them. If I'm browsing around, say, Amazon and most of the books that the algorithms throw at me are around that price point, why on Earth would I want to pay in excess of $20 for one? I could buy at least three for the same amount! For me, at least, it's a combination of cost-conscious shopping due to a small budget and having good experiences with indie books. (It's a very competitive field. Standards for the authors who are serious about their work are on par with or higher than the standards in traditional publishing.)

I do think that part of the reason big publishers manage to keep their ebook prices higher is... Well, I suppose 'brand recognition' is a good way to put it. They can charge more because people are willing to pay more for what their brand represents. There's still a lot of stigma against self-publishing/indie publishing, so the name of a big publisher adds a lot of perceived value. After all, it's been selected by a publisher, so I'm guaranteed to have a high quality, entertaining read, right? The book might turn out not to be my taste, but the quality is still going to meet a certain standard.

But mostly, as Narilka said, it's a complicated problem and it varies per individual. Some things seem to be relatively universal, such as expecting the savings to be passed on to consumers and the issues around DRM. But even then you'll often find that people have slightly different motivations or objections.

Another reason I thought of because my Nook battery is running down - what happens when your device goes kaput and you can't access your ebooks? That doesn't happen to a physical book.

>248 Morphidae: You can still access them on a computer, tablet, or smartphone using the Nook app.

Well, to further follow up on the comments above (scanning everything between #240 and #249), I'll just share with you some survey data that popped up on my desk this morning. The published results were dated November 2015 so just a year ago:

Most Important Criteria Used In Deciding to Read in Print or in Digital Formats
Convenience 47%
Price 38%
Portability 34%
Genre 30%
Length of Book 27%

Data came from the Book Industry Study Group. (I'd heard some of this back in June at ALA this year when there was a representative speaking about what had been learned; I'd just forgotten that particular slide.)

I will say that I've slipped almost entirely back into the print column myself. I don't want the additional screen time after I've worked all day at a computer. (murfled whining). I must admit to binging this past weekend at the Book Depository for some specific UK stuff that seems to be absurdly hard to get at a reasonable price here in the States. I'm going to read some Christmas murder mysteries from the Golden Age and something in-depth about screen adaptations of Agatha Christie.

They left out two of my most important criteria: Font and Availability. There have been times when I've bought an ebook because the font in the print version is too small to read comfortably. And some books are much more readily available as ebooks.

Besides the whole ownership thing as mentioned above, another problem I have with ebooks is their lack of visibility. A glance at my bookcase tells me what physical books I own and which ones I haven't read yet. Seeing what ebooks I have requires searching LibraryThing or my kindle, both of which require a fair bit of organization to make my collections browsable.

I agree with every argument I've read here, but especially with this one from @MrsLee:

------>"I still have the thought in the back of my head that the internet and everything about it might disappear one day."

I feel like I've sold a small piece of my soul to Amazon in that I've got to trust that the company (or at least it's digital content) will outlive me. They're pretty solid, but you know how these things can go. If the whole house of cards comes down I have plenty of physical books to fall back on, but I won't be happy. I'll be forced to wear cheaters to read, or take out my contacts which will render me practically blind to all but the pages in front of me. Not that that is without it's own charm...

Edited to add that I have a $3.99 cap for stuff I'm mostly interested in, but I'll go as high as $9.99 for stuff I just have to have.

This is an interesting conversation. I read almost exclusively e-books, so I wanted to toss my perspective out there. I apologize that it’s such a wordy perspective! :)

I definitely understand the concerns people have about not being able to loan, resell, or give away e-books. It isn’t a factor in my purchasing decisions because my friends and family don’t share my reading interests, but I can understand why it would bother people.

I also share some of the concerns about pricing. However, just like I used to do with physical books, I watch for sales and use the library. On eReaderIQ, I have a watch list with lots of books I want to read. Most of them are set to send me an e–mail if their price drops below $3. So far this year, I’ve bought 88 e-books. 57 of them cost less than $3 each. Nearly all of them were books I had already wanted to read before they went on sale. It helps that the books I read are usually a few years old; it’s probably harder to find sales on newer releases.

I really don’t have concerns about format changes, companies going out of business, etc. Yes, file formats and hardware change over the years, but people inevitably develop conversion tools, emulators, etc. to allow old formats to be used by new technology. My main uncertainty would be the potential legal issues of breaking DRM to convert the files. I guess the Internet, and technology in general, could die through some sort of cataclysm, but e-books would be the very least of my problems if that happened.

I also don’t have concerns about the device limit set by some publishers. Just to clarify, this is a limit on how many e-books you can have downloaded to different devices at one time. I know some people download every e-book they’ve ever owned onto every device they’ve ever owned and leave them there forever, but I don’t.

The touch and smell of books, so lovingly described by many people, is something I just don’t get. I want to get lost in a good story, not get distracted by the desire to stroke or sniff my books. :) But seriously, I’ve seen enough people say this that I do realize it’s a real factor for people. It just isn’t one for me. For me, the value of a book is in the words it contains and the ideas and imagination it sparks. I just want the least-distracting format that will allow me to focus on the content of the book. For me, that’s an e-book.

Here’s an excessively long list of the reasons why I prefer e-books:

• In-depth reading. I can get dictionary definitions and Wikipedia entries just by touching a word with my finger. There’s also a moderately-useful translation function. With these features, I can quickly get the background info I may need to appreciate a story better. I can also search for all occurrences of a word within my book, which is helpful if I forget who a character is. It shows me quick excerpts from the book, and reading the earlier excerpts usually jogs my memory. (There’s also an X-Ray feature intended for this purpose, but I avoid it due to spoilers.) With a physical book, it usually felt too cumbersome to look up info I wanted so I’d keep reading and figure things out as best I could from the context.
  
• Lighting. I have perfect lighting wherever I read, and no matter what position I’m in. (I have a front-lit e-reader, which doesn’t strain the eyes like a backlit computer, tablet, or phone might.)
  
• Adjustable font. If my eyes are tired, I can increase the font. If I’m on an airplane, I can make the font really tiny to discourage a nosy neighbor from reading over my shoulder.
  
• Portability. I can take lots of books on a trip without using much luggage space. If I’m out running around and I have to wait for something, I can sync up my smartphone to the same book I was reading on my e-reader at home and keep reading.
  
• Weight. A large book can get uncomfortable to hold, and reading positions are also a little more limited.
  
• Page turning. I used to turn pages in a new physical book carefully to avoid messing up that beautiful, pristine book. That was a bit of a distraction from the actual act of reading. My Kindle Oasis is easy to operate one-handed, and I’m usually not even aware that I’m turning pages. I’m just focused on the story.
  

Sorry for the e-novel! I might be overly passionate about my e-books. :)

>253 YouKneeK: Ooooh, an Oasis. I've been eying that. My Paperwhite still seems new to me, but it's four years old. My only complaint about it is that even at its lowest setting sometimes it feels too bright to me when I wake up at 5:00 AM and decide to read for a bit.

I also agree with you on how wonderful it is being able to touch words for definitions, or look things up on Wikipedia with a couple of taps. And yes, the translation function is awesome, except there is no Latin!!!

Ha, yes, the Latin thing has annoyed me also!

I love the Oasis. I've had mine since it was released in late April and it's still my favorite of the e-readers I've owned. I've had four previous versions of the Kindle, including the original. It’s comfortable and unobtrusive to use thanks to its odd shape and the return of physical buttons. I think it does have more light settings, 20 instead of 10, but I don’t have my Paperwhite any more so I can't compare the brightness of the lowest settings. I tend to range from 7-15 myself, depending on the ambient lighting, but I rarely read in complete darkness.

>255 YouKneeK: I usually read by LED candle light in bed. Just checked and the Paperwhite has 24 light settings. The lowest is fine by candlelight, but is jarring when I first open it in the pitch black.

Sorry for the hijacking, Jill!

>256 clamairy: From what little I’ve seen over the past couple months of browsing threads here, Jill may have the most frequently-hijacked thread in the group. :)

Sorry, I just double checked, and the Oasis has 24 settings also.

>256 clamairy: and >257 YouKneeK: For the record, I don't consider this to be hijacking in any way. You're both contributing to the discussion and understanding of what's to be factored into e-reading. (BTW, I love your detailed response, @YouKneeK. No need to apologize for passionate advocacy.)

On-going commentary distracts everyone from the fact that my reading and subsequent reviewing activity has been less substantive this year. I only got through one chapter last night.

I'm so glad it's not just me. LOL!

I'll read in both print and ebook.

Ebooks:
- I can read with one hand, which means I don't have to stop petting the dog to turn the page.
- I can use eReaderIQ to get emailed updates for when a book falls below $3. I generally do this for books that the local library doesn't have.
- Similarly, when I was in high school English, I could use Project Gutenberg to read some of the classics for free.
- I can use it to read ARC books for my reviewing.
- It allows me to take a huge number of books with me, anywhere. This is especially great for college, since I've got very limited space in my dorm room.
- I like the lighting on my Kindle - I don't have to worry about disturbing my roommate by having a lamp on.

Print books:
- I can loan it to friends!
- Sometimes I can find pretty cheap used copies, or I can borrow copies for free from the library.
- I like looking at my bookshelves.
- If the book has illustrations or a really pretty cover, I definitely want to have it in print.
- If I don't like the book, I can resell it or re-purpose it into an art piece.

Generally, I end up with a balance between the two. Between eReaderIQ ebook sales, the library, and used print copies I'm able to read a wide number of books for fairly cheap. If it's a book I really like, I tend to want to have a print copy of it so that I can loan it out to friends. I'll admit it, I'm a book pusher.

>259 Morphidae: I chose Undecided because I read so few print books now that I’m not sure I’ve ever even had the opportunity to do it. But I reserve the right to do so in the future. ;)

>261 pwaites: Good point about e-books being pet friendly! :) I often have a hand tied up petting the cat, or preventing him from falling off my lap since he tends to plop down in odd positions.

>262 YouKneeK: Your username makes me smile. When I was a young girl, I had this conversation with my mom.

Mom: You are unique.
Me: I am not a "nique"! *cries*

Mom and I kid either other about it to this day, forty-something years later.

>264 Morphidae: LOL, that’s funny. :)

I prefer paper books. But I do buy and read ebooks. Mostly they are a matter of immediate access and lack of further cluttering. However, I buy almost all my nonfiction in hardcover and half of my fiction in ebook form.

A few points:
Physical books are fetishistic objects to me. I like seeing them, looking at them, handling them, placing them in suitable places on my shelves. (I don't know how to offer a direct link to one of my reviews, but my review of this one illustrates my deep affection for a beloved book: http://www.librarything.com/work/96972 )

Nonfiction books often have charts, maps, or other accompaniments that I greatly prefer to take in in physical form.

I love fiction, but don't care as much about owning it. Somehow, and maybe this doesn't entirely make sense, I feel my nonfiction more powerfully reflects who I am and what interests me.

>259 Morphidae: I've done the dictionary thing, and on one occasion touched the side of the page to go to the next. When my (paper) page didn't respond, I tried it again...

As for e- vs p-books, I like both. Some books I have in both formats, others (mostly the enjoyable but fluffy ones) I really don't need in paper, others I feel compelled to buy in paper. The advantage of ebooks: I love the ability to carry many books with me, but I don't like the fact that I don't legally own the books, and I have had electronic issues several times to get them onto my reader. I think it's stupid to make reading ebooks more complicated for people who pay for the books than for people who don't...
Paper books seem more durable, more eternal somehow, because then I own an actual object. Also, some of them are really pretty, and I like the fact that I can easily see them all. For instance, kceccato started a thread asking about awesome moments for female protagonists. When I'm thinking about answers, it's great to just stare at my bookcase, and consider every book in it and see if they contain an answer. I like that better than doing it electronically. As for reading quality, the screen of an ereader is equal to paper for me, and the good thing about the ereader is that it has light (front-lighting).

Apologies for the delayed response, but way back at >242 Narilka: asked about author royalties for paper and e-books. I meant to look out the contract I signed for the latest book (which I believe is pretty standard), so am relying on my notoriously erratic memory. This publisher offers 12.5% on paper and 33.3% on e-books, apps and "other electronic media". Hope this is not too late to be useful.

From a publishing perspective, I know pirated ebook copies are also a problem. I've seen Maggie Stiefvater write some about how her books aren't going to get translated into other languages because there are already pirated translated PDFs circulating. I know my roommate reads pirated ebooks, and it annoys the heck out of me. Our college library has free interlibrary loan and it's literally right next door!

>268 hfglen: Does it vary per publisher or is that fairly standard?

>269 pwaites: That's pretty much the same for any electronic format. Remember how up in arms the music industry was over Napster back in the day? As soon as something goes electronic you may as well assume there will be a pirated version. At least there are enough people willing to pay that hopefully it offsets the percentage that don't.

>270 Narilka: It varies. My contracts with a large commercial publisher (Macmillan) have been 10% on hardcovers, 6% on paperbacks (both have escalation clauses) and 15% for ebooks. For a small commercial genre fiction publisher, it was 40% ebooks and 9% on paperback, also with escalation clauses.

Also, DRM is pretty much a joke. Anyone can download Calibre, strip the DRM, and bingo, you can share it. I've been thinking about downloading my ebook library to my hard drive this way, if B&N looks in danger of going belly-up.

>271 Marissa_Doyle: That's a huge variance. What are escalation clauses?

Escalation clauses are increases in percentages paid to the author after a certain number of books are sold--for example, a hardcover percentage might start at 10% and go up to 15% after 30,000 copies are sold.

You all are marvelous, and I say that in all seriousness. I think it's important to understand how avid readers engage with a text in different formats. And bringing in the element of royalties and piracy shows that the thinking is based in reality -- not in "Gee, I wish this was the way it all worked" thinking.

In the meantime, quite seriously, don't mind me or what may appear to be neglect of all of you visiting here. I am cogitating. Mulling. Ruminating even. Turning things over in my mind. I'll let you know if any light-bulbs go on.

Don't sit in the dark.

"Hey! Who turned out the lights?" Doctor Who creepy reference.

Brief flash: I "sort of" read Irene Collins' Jane Austen: The Parson's Daughter this past week. Her Austen biography covers a relatively narrow slice of Jane's life, spanning only that period when her father was alive. What would catch my attention in every chapter would be a few pages that actually considered some element of her life (schooling, reading, etc.) that would be passed over or entirely ignored in more studious biographies like those by David Nokes or Park Honan. Conversational in tone, this one should be viewed as accessible for those readers with an interest in the author but who might be put off by biographies featuring too much political or wide-ranging familial historical detail. No longer in print, one might seek Jane Austen: The Parson's Daughter out in used copies or via the library (although smaller public libraries might have weeded it out of the collection in favor of the weightier biographies published more recently).

I thought that you all might find this particular list from one of the many different tribes within ALA to be of interest.
http://www.ala.org/rusa/awards/readinglist. The group that created it characterizes it as follows:

Established in 2007 by the CODES section of RUSA, The Reading List seeks to highlight outstanding genre fiction that merit special attention by general adult readers and the librarians who work with them.

For purposes of clarification, I'd like to explain that RUSA is Reference and User Services Association (housed under the umbrella of ALA) and CODES is Collection Development and Evaluation Section within RUSA. One of the most irritating things about ALA if you ask me is their devotion to acronyms. Makes me totally nuts. It's overkill.

>278 jillmwo: Nice list, all acronyms aside. I was thrilled to see the winner of the best SciFi was Golden Son by Pierce Brown. :o)

(And I'm thinking I might have to get my hands on that Novik.)

>279 clamairy: Novik's Uprooted is gorgeous. I really loved it, against my expectations.

>279 clamairy:, >280 Sakerfalcon: I loved Uprooted too.

>280 Sakerfalcon: >281 YouKneeK: I got tired of her Temeraire series after the 6th or 7th book because they were so dreary and depressing. The main characters NEVER caught a break. Does the same thing happen in Uprooted?

>282 Morphidae: I haven’t read the Temeraire series yet, although I want to, so I can’t really compare it to Uprooted. However, I can say that I didn’t find it dreary or depressing. I remember laughing a few times while reading it, actually. There was some darkness here and there, but I didn’t find it overpowering.

>282 Morphidae:

Uprooted is not like the Temeraire series

I loathed the Temeraire series (well, only read the first one and was completely underwhelmed, not to mention disappointed. ) Uprooted was nothing like it, and I really enjoyed it

I haven't tried the Temeraire series because it just doesn't interest me, so reading that others of you haven't enjoyed it makes me feel better about my decision! Uprooted does contain dark events, but we see the main character growing as a person and developing her skills in a way that is hugely satisfying. I certainly didn't think it was dreary.

>286 Sakerfalcon:

I did enjoy the first few works in the Temeraire series, but as often happens it was stretched too thin.

Okay, Uprooted has been added to Mount TBR.

FWIW, @Morphidae, I've got Uprooted sitting in my TBR pile as well. I just haven't been in the appropriately receptive mood to properly absorb and/or appreciate the story. I think it's becoming part of the standard operating procedure for me that I only read award-winning, immensely popular titles two or three years after they've been published and everyone else is done with them.

This may be the only book I actually manage to finish during the month of December. Things have been “lively”. (Not in a bad way, but just generally moving at a brisker pace than normal.)

For the British, as I understand it, it’s customary to read murder mysteries at Christmas time. I must say that if Francis Duncan’s Murder for Christmas is any indication, it’s an excellent observance of the season. Duncan’s book is a traditional country-house murder, set at Christmas time with all the standard Dickensian elements -- Father Christmas, a tree decorated with presents, carollers, the village vicar -- the full program of Christmas. Of course, in this one, we’ve several Father Christmases, presents stolen from the tree, and a body left on the rug. It features a slightly offbeat sleuth -- Mordecai Tremaine, an unmarried and rather affable, retired tobacconist with a set of pince-nez that tend to slide out of position on his nose. Searching for a fictional parallel, I’d say he reminded me more of Miss Marple in some ways than of Hercule Poirot. There is a manageable allotment of suspects - among others, an accomplished pianist, a scientist, a politician, etc. and a lovely romantically involved pair (Denys and Roger). This last set has a certain appeal for Mordecai who harbors a peculiar fondness for the type of love stories found in the Romantic Times publication. We watch him intuit and subsequently solve the problems driving the narrative, while interrogating suspects as he twirls them about the ballroom. The Christmas tree standing in the ballroom is by turns a pleasant, a depressing and ultimately even a malevolent presence.

It’s a great puzzle mystery, but if you’re the sort who pays attention to the narrative structure of mysteries, you may figure out who done it fairly readily, even if you can’t think why. Murder at Christmas seems to me to be a meditation on the appeal of murder mysteries at Christmas. Why at this ostensibly peaceful and celebratory time of year, do we enjoy something so dreadful as murder? Because properly speaking, it should really dampen our spirits to be thinking about corpses and suspects; fear, suspicion and terror shouldn’t be the three ghosts of Christmas. And yet, as fictional elements, the tartness of those emotions does appear to enhance our enjoyment of the season.

For more on the author (who did a relatively short series of mysteries featuring Mordecai), you might find this article from the Guardian to be of interest. (https://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jan/03/murder-for-christmas-mystery-of-author-francis-duncan). The other novels in the series are all readily available in the UK; for those of us in the US, however, you’ll have to order from the Book Depository if you want them at a reasonable price and in time for reading in front of the fire on Christmas Eve. I enjoyed Murder for Christmas sufficiently that I may well order the rest.

Edited to Add: It did just occur to me that murder at Christmas may just be an alternative outlet allowing us to divvy up the good folk from the bad. Krampus as Murderer, dragging one off to the netherworld? I like that thought. I may play with it a bit. (Oooh, shiny!)

Another item of interest from the JSTOR blog: http://daily.jstor.org/friday-reads-best-books-lists/

>290 jillmwo: Whew! A prohibitive price on the paperback at Amazon. Not in Kindle form either. Getting a book bullet for a hard to obtain book is like a would with a slow bleed.

I like murder at any time of the year, but mysteries seem to be easy on the mind to read, especially those which follow the formula well. Almost restful, which is what we need in this season of hectic activity.

>292 MrsLee: Go over to BookDepository.com to purchase the book! The paperback is far more reasonably priced over there and shipping is free. (Amazon is absurd when it comes to titles published in the UK. Alas, you are correct that there is no Kindle version available.)

There is a Kindle version available in Canada (and presumably the UK). It's $9.99 (Cdn) and I currently have more than enough to read, but I'll put it on my wishlist and buy it if it goes on sale.

>292 MrsLee:


I like murder at any time of the year

Have you considered hit-man school? I heard that scholarships are available.

>295 suitable1: Oh yes! I might possibly even be able to pay attention in that school.

Books have to be read (worse luck, for it takes a long time); it is the only way of discovering what they contain

Quote from E.M. Forster, Aspects of the Novel

>297 jillmwo: love it!

>289 jillmwo: I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this!

>299 Sakerfalcon: Oh, good! Company!

For the record, I am never revisiting The Black Dahlia; so not my kind of crime novel...

I am about to binge read Agatha Christie novels. And maybe nibble on a piece of tea cake that I baked just at lunch.

I should try to think what I'm going to do for dinner tonight. Might be left-over spaghetti, at the rate things are going.

Note to self: Many folk* here on LT have recommended the novella by Paul Cornell, entitled Witches of Lychford. It's reasonably priced as an ebook at 2.99 (at the time of this writing) and it looks interesting. I need to remember it for Didi's book group as a fantasy/sci-fi selection.

*This would translate to @Marissa_Doyle, @imryl, @zjakkelien, and @Sakerfalcon among some others who slipped away before my brain could seize on their identities.

>302 jillmwo: Oh great... I just ran away from a thread where this book was being discussed (screaming silently from being grazed by multiple bullets) only to stumble in here and take a direct hit.

>302 jillmwo: >303 clamairy: *quietly grins to self*

>302 jillmwo: >303 clamairy: Good work, jillmwo. She thought she could escape, but she's no match for superior GD coordination. *cackles evilly*

I have not fallen for Witches of Lychford yet, but I do like Paul Cornell's work. I have read and enjoyed London Falling, and have the next on in that series on my bookshelves. I will follow that line before I consider "Witches".

(I regard London Falling as a gritty urban fantasy and can best describe it as a cross between "The Sweeney" and "Buffy the Vampire Slayer".

>302 jillmwo: Not guilty! If you look at imyril's thread you will see that I am as much a victim as you! They are a skilful bunch.

Curiously, none of you in reading post #302 seemed to process the phrase in boldface type: Note to Self. I can't be accused of book bullets if I'm in the mode of "little grey-haired lady talking to herself in the corner while twiddling her thumbs".

On the other hand, it's the most plausible conspiracy theory that I've seen espoused recently in the various online environments.

>308 jillmwo: That just constitutes sneakier shooting of book-bullets than usual.

>302 jillmwo: >308 jillmwo: Oh, man. Call it what you will. You got me with it.

Okay so I went and added my Top Five of 2016 to the LT List: https://www.librarything.com/list/11172/jillmwo/

Have the rest of you done that yet?

>311 jillmwo: Oh, that’s cool, I didn’t know LT did that. Thanks for posting about it! I haven’t read any of your top five, although I’d like to read the two fantasy works you listed eventually.

I’ll have to give it some thought and then maybe I’ll do a list in a week or so. My problem is that, if I went strictly by my favorite books read in 2016, I’d probably have the same author and series in at least four of my slots. Maybe it would be better to just pick one book from that series, and from any other series I particularly enjoyed this year, to represent all of them.

>312 YouKneeK: >311 jillmwo: We used to start one Best Fiction and one Best Non-Fiction thread near the end of each year in this group. I can't remember if we did it last year or not. The limit of five was very soft and most of us would have columns of 'honorable mentions' longer that our actual lists. The clouds of book bullets darkened the skies however...

>313 clamairy: That sounds like fun. I’m terrible at answering any question that involves words like “favorite” or “best”, but a soft limit would make it easier.

>308 jillmwo:

The style book says that the contents of notes to self should be enclosed within spoiler tags.

I tag my books with the year read specifically so I can figure out what to add to the lists.

>316 SylviaC: I tag year/month of completion. January often appears very productive because I have managed to finish off a few half read books during the holidays.

I let Paul Cornell know that Witches of Lychford was receiving great praise on this thread (I sent him the link) and he asked me to let everyone know that he appreciates it. He said the third book is due in 2017.

He added the comment that Gaudy Night is the best Sayers novel.

>318 pgmcc: Gaudy Night is a wonderful book, and if Paul Cornell has the perspicacity to recognize that fact, then I am even more likely to seek out Witches of Lychford.

>315 suitable1: Have they finally finished updating the Style Manual? I had not been aware.

And I'm going to do what @MrsLee did and at some point in the next 24-48 hours, I'll launch my thread for 2017. Things have become unwieldy.

>319 jillmwo:

My copy is draft #1296; YMMV

>320 suitable1: Is that draft #1296.01 or #1296.02?

>319 jillmwo: I think Paul is most perspicacious in many regards. He is also a very nice person, extremely thoughtful, and the consummate professional.

>318 pgmcc: & >322 pgmcc: Aaaaaand that bullet finally penetrated my thick hide.

>323 MrsLee: I hope it did not hurt.

>311 jillmwo: Thanks for the pointer! I added mine, but my next five might have been just as good.