Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials

I don't know if anyone here has read them but I heard to day the following email is making the rounds in the USA:

"THE GOLDEN COMPASS, a new movie targeted at children, will be released December 7, 2007. This movie is based on a the first book of a trilogy by atheist Philip Pullman. In the final book a boy and girl kill God so they can do as they please. Pullman left little doubt about his intentions when he said in a 2003 interview that "My books are about killing God."
The movie is a watered down version of the first book and is designed to be very attractive in the hope unsuspecting parents will take their children to see the movie and that the children will want the books for Christmas.
The movie has a well known cast, including Nicole Kidman, Kevin Bacon, and Sam Elliott. It will probably be advertised extensively, so it is crucial that we get the word out to warn parents to avoid this movie."

I just wanted to say that the originator of the message obviously hasn't read these books only heard what the author said about them. particuarly with the sentence "In the final book a boy and girl kill God so they can do as they please."

Do you think this means they'll stop hating on Harry Potter for awhile? ^ ^

OK, it's a mass e-mail with a spoiler and no spoiler warning. Bad e-mail etiquette!

This came across my wifes toddler playgroup and caused a bit of a fuss. The person who sent it didn't see how it might be offensive.

But, it's actually a very clever e-mail. The message implied is that to be a good Christian you must say bad things about this movie. This then gives it lots of exposure, helping to sell a lot more tickets and books - which gives more opportunities for people to be even better Christians and really criticize it.

So, we are coming from the standpoint that if you shelter your kids from alternate views they will become total heathens. Wheither you are a Christian or not, sheltering your kids from other points of view really only makes them curious about what you are sheilding them from. Better to go to the movie together and talk about it.
Besides, kids need to get in touch with their inner Nitchzie.

"If you don't like it, don't watch it" is the appropriate reply. Then again, a Christian group (for kids) I know of used it as reading material and discussed it afterwards. Sure, they were discussing why they were supposed to disagree with it, but they're allowed to.
It's amazing the damage these sorts of emails can do. A friend of mine was not allowed to read C. S. Lewis, especially The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe when she was growing up, because her parents had heard on the grapevine that it was required reading for becoming a witchcraft initiate. I had no chance of keeping a straight face. Luckily the friend in question is sensible, and has learned to think for herself. She has chosen to keep her faith (of her own volition) and doesn't take her parents word as gospel.

How ironic given all the Christian subtext in that book.

"witchcraft initiate"
Bwha ha ha ha ha ha!!! Happy Halloween! Is there an epidemic I missed where droves of Christian teens are becoming witches? They should make an after school special about that.

But how could you miss such an obvious clue - it has 'witch' in the title. It *must* be evil. It features 'god' and it's not written by a Christian. It must be evil.
Sure, Phillip Pullman isn't exactly hiding the fact that he thinks Christianity is a load of tripe, but he's open about it, and. like I said in #4, if you don't like it, don't buy it for your kids. If they want to see the movie, say no. You're their parents.

We'll see if this keeps The Golden Compass from being a hit film. The Narnia film was marketed quite heavily to churches, and counted on those big church dollars for their success.

The same folks that last night, put on a "Wild West Fun Fair" to a packed parking lot, rather than have their precious lovelies out with the devil and his minions asking for candy, would probably not let their kids go see this.

Yup, October 31st is now the traditional "Wild West Fun Fair" night. With Jeebus as the greatest gunslinger of 'em all, I'd suppose. We didn't drop in to check it out.

Golden Compass is going to be a hit, regardless of what critics say. When Da Vinci Code came out in theaters, the local Catholics had a protest outside of our movie theater, but that didn't stop it from being packed. And this is in Louisiana, a state which is very Catholic! Controversy sells, and it doesn't hurt that Compass has an awesome trailer.

#8 ... hmmm, I don't see how the controversy could do anything but help the film. Churches were never going to drive ticket sales to this movie - so the loss of sales should be minor. But criticism has already lead to a lot more exposure - if it's a hit, credit the e-mail and other criticism

(note, I had never heard of this series before, and now I must read the books.)

I tried to read it years ago, when my children were reading it, and didnt care much for it. My reasons had little to do with this current "controversy."

When Dogma came out, it was picketed in several places by various groups. The director, Kevin Smith joined in with as many pickets as he could. "You better not see this movie, or Western civilization could decline overnight," he would tell people.

I'm about 1/2 way through it, and really, I'm disappointed. It has stock characters and no humour.

But the movie has Daniel Craig.

#9, 10, 11
And yet none seem to realise that people are encouraged to see films and read books that are objected to. Of course, it's always possible that the e-mail was started as a deliberate viral marketing campaign, like A-S mentioned for Dogma (which was, by the way, quite funny).

12: Agreed. I've read only the first book of the trilogy so far (that is, The Golden Compass itself), and I was pretty disappointed. The protagonist felt emotionally wrong -- nothing she was feeling seemed natural to me -- the pacing seemed off, I don't know. The alternate universe was great, very well fleshed out, but that's about the only positive thing I can say about it. I do want to press on and try the second book, but I don't have very high hopes. So disappointing after hoping for a nonChristian antidote to Narnia.

I think the problem with the book is that he DID try to write a non-Christian antidote to Narnia instead of a damn good story.

Sometimes...often Narnia comes across too heavy handed as well. When Lewis was telling a story he was good.

Tolkien just told the story. You might not know from LotR that he was a very devout Catholic, and he and Lewis had a falling out because Lewis did not become RC.

I see the parallels to Narnia, but that's not the part that bugs me. I do like the idea of a "novel of ideas" for kids, I really do. But don't leave out the whimsy! (Adult novels need it too, actually.) There's some real interesting stuff in there, but that's all it is: interesting. There's no laughter and no one to care about.

Follow up: My wife just got the "Stay away from the Golden Compass" email from some ladies she knows. Many people 'cced, with the admonition to stay away from this horrible thing.

Yes, people like to go to see controversial movies. But parents, as a rule, won't take their kids to them.

Me? I'll be going three times, to make up for some others.

I wonder if the film will be good, independent of all this k-rap.

We took our eight year old son to see The Da Vinci Code. (We could not find a baby sitter.)

His response?

"I guess it is good that they are making movies about Jesus."

Of course this is the child who, when asked by his scout troop why he likes being an American, he answered, "Because all the superheros live here."

Except Bicycle Repairman, of course. Oh, and Mr. Neutron. Honestly, Arctic - don't you educate your child?

As long as it's good, who cares? I didn't know this movie/book was so controversial. I read it as a kid and loved it.

Then again, when I worked at a video store in a small New Jersey town, the following movies were picketed:
All the Harry Potter
Dogma
Holes
Lord Of The Rings

I just read some stuff on the message boards, and I'm pretty depressed by it. Most of the people denouncing it have never even read the books. If you don't like them, fine. But at least KNOW what you're disliking.

I mean, I sat through 'Passion of The Christ' and gave it a fair chance. And when I tell people I dislike it, it has very little to do with the religious aspects, and a hell of a lot more to do with the fact that it was basically a really expensive snuff film.

I've started an email debate with the person that sent me the email. Yes, I have far too much time on my hands.

>6 januaryw: januaryw

I've asked the same question regarding Harry Potter. In another thread on LT I pointed out that nobody has actually provided an example of someone who read HP then left Christianity and became a "witch" (I guess they mean Wiccan) and did it only because of HP.

My mom, april_in_ca, has used Golden Compass in a children's lit class. I wonder if these hardcore Christians who oppose the book so much would read it if they had to get a passing grade.

#15: "I think the problem with the book is that he DID try to write a non-Christian antidote to Narnia instead of a damn good story."

That's totally ironic because of what he is quoted as saying in a 2005 New Yorker story: " 'In adult literary fiction, stories are there on sufferance. Other things are felt to be more important: technique, style, literary knowingness. . . . The present-day would-be George Eliots take up their stories as if with a pair of tongs. They’re embarrassed by them. If they could write novels without stories in them, they would. Sometimes they do.' "

It could also be that he tried to write a good story, and just...well...didn't.

I loved these books as did every person I know who has read them. I also love every book I've read by Pullman. I think his characters are rich and he does a wonderful job of creating twists on very traditional story ideas... Just MHO on the books.

As to the controversy, I find that people who get upset about these kinds of things will get upset about just about anything which doesn't fit their mold of the world. Say what you will about JK Rowling, Harry's aunt, uncle, and cousin are a great poke at people like this. Right down to the perfect son who can do no wrong but is actually a big creep.

one thing I find interesting about the original email is the line "n the final book a boy and girl kill God so they can do as they please" that isn't what happened in any way shape or form. They didn't kill God and they didn't get to do as the pleased which was one of the reasons it was such a great final book.

#25: "that isn't what happened in any way shape or form"

That, of course, is not surprising ... the odds are very slim that some Xtian fundy would have gone through the effort to actually read the books! It reminds me of an e-mail that was recently fowarded to me by my father-in-law (who has married a rather "fundy" lady) ... this was all breathless in indignation that the US Mint had supposedly removed "In God We Trust" from the new Presidential Dollars. Obviously, NONE of the hundreds of people who had forwarded on this piece of twaddle had bothered to actually look at the coins, which have the phrase incised around the rim of the coins, along with "E Pluribus Unum". I copied some images from the Mint's website and sent them back to him suggesting his friends had better get their eyes checked!

By the way, I just ordered a box set of the His Dark Materials as a b-day present for my daughter who is turning 12 in a few weeks!

 

>26 BTRIPP: I spell it Xtian as you do, but I have seen Xian. I wonder which it is.

I believe that there was a mint error (nothing more nor less; it happens) where the impression around the rim was omitted. Some folks got hold of a bunch and are now marketing them.

It may be that someone eager to be injured took that error to be purposeful.

Robert

#27: "I spell it Xtian as you do, but I have seen Xian. I wonder which it is."

Well, I was a Religion Major in college (among other things), and "Xtian" is a fairly standard abbreviation in those fields.

"Xian", of course, is an ancient capital of China, and I read it that way every time I see it, so if they're talking Xtians, I have to make the mental shift away from seeing clay soldiers!



 

Xian is the one I've always used, because of the X being Christ/Xpistos (Christos), I keep the t in the abbreviated bit. I doubt it matters much.
BTW, technically the ancient capital of China is romanised Xi'an to contrast with the single-syllabled xian (which can have a number of meanings).

I'm inspired to read Phillip Pullman by the movie's appearance, and motivated by its appearance in the Green Dragon. It'll provide discussion, whether I agree with him or not.

I went to a nominally Christian high school, and the headmaster and chaplain (both priests who team-taught the one religion course) always spelled it 'Xian' on the blackboard.

Plus, I've seen 'Xmas' all over, but never 'Xtmas.' Still, English has never been much for consistent spelling. I suppose it's a matter of which one you were exposed to first.

Vaguely on topic: cectic

#26-30 - Actually, Xians are the Aliens from Planet X from Godzilla vs. Monster Zero (aka Invasion of Astro-Monster)

They dress spiffier than most Xtians...

lol I like it... Some that i know act like aliens. Did I just say that outloud? Oops

Anywho fikustree said it right in #25. They most definitely hadn't read the books as it's no where near what happened...

And as for you who have only read the first book and saying that the characters weren't lovable(or whatever you said lol), read the next one. The boy who is introduced in The Subtle Knife was easy to care for :)

The Baptist Messanger (newsletter for Baptist) last week had a 2 page article quoting from that damn email. They went on at length telling all the baptist to be good christians and boycott the movie. I can promise I will be standing first in line tomorrow to see the movie. They (the baptist) have even gotten some youth minister to write a good christian book that they want everyone to run right out and buy instead of Mr. Pullmans books.

I saw the film this evening with my son at a benefit for his school. He is 7, and told me that one of his friends told him that his mother told him that the film teaches kids not to trust God.

I probably don't have to tell you that in the context of this movie, this is complete b.s.

What we got from it (from a child's perspective) is a fairly good yarn about the value of friendship. Clearly the film has a subtext that doesn't think highly of organized religion, but I caught no whiff of atheism per se.

I fully expected my son to be ready to leave after half an hour. But he was transfixed and really enjoyed the film. I won't give any spoilers, but the only scene that made me nervous for him was the bear fight. I asked him to shut his eyes at the appropriate time, and he was fine with it.

I'm not a great fan of fantasy films (only lukewarm about the whole LOTR thing), but this was pretty entertaining. I would think of it as a modern story along the lines of Peter Pan or the Wizard of Oz.

Before and after the film, we talked about the value of finding out things for yourself, rather than taking the word of someone who criticizes a book or film without bothering to read or view it. The bruhaha around the film helped us make it into a learning experience.

According a story in NPR this morning, Hollywood is trying to tone down the anti-religious nature of the books for the movie. The story says the first installment does that, but then wonders how they will keep it down for the latter installments, where according to the story, things are much more blatant.

I wonder how Pullman feels about taking out something that seemed to be fairly important for him.

We probably will not take our eight year old, unless he really wants to go. This has to do as much with finances as it does with anything else though. (This is the kid who, after watching the Da Vinci Code said, "It is good they are making movies about Jesus.")

> 36

I wonder how Pullman feels about taking out something that seemed to be fairly important for him.

From interviews with him that I have read in the past, he's fine with the way The Golden Compass was filmed.

When I read the book, I didn't spot the atheist message hidden it. After seeing the movie and reading the complaints from catholics it's obvious! They should have shut up and nobody would have noticed.

Hubby and i just got home from seeing the movie. Enjoyed it alot. A few things changed but for the most part it was went along with the book.

Philip Pullman interview

I would not have noticed this work except for the fuss. I noticed that Roger Ebert thought the fuss was inappropriate, and he liked the movie.

I will probably see the movie.

Barny Noble will send me the three novels in one volume edition as soon as they can find it. It remains to be seen whether I'll read it.

Robert

rdurick, please show me the face of this lovely generous man, Barney Noble. ;o)

I tried. It would highlight, but it wouldn't copy to the clipboard.

He finally sent the set rather than the single volume. I wonder whether I will ever read it.

He also sent me The Pillars of the Earth but without the Oprah logo on it in order to save money.

Robert

For anyone interested, Pullman was on the Charlie Rose show last night...

Having read the three volumes and finding them to be a genuine entertainment but of very little substance, I finally saw the movie at a second run theater on Wednesday. God didn't die, nor was he threatened.

The story was ill-told and different, of course, from the book, but visually it was sumptuous. I did not feel I had wasted my dollar on a ticket to it. To the movie's credit the religious figures from the Authority did not seem to have evil intent; they were more poisoned by their own authority and desire to people good.

I can't imagine why Ebert liked it though.

Robert

>44 Mr.Durick:

Ebert will like anything that he finds more entertaining than touching. He also seems to really like great visuals that tell the story rather than visuals that are there to just fill up the screen.

Take his favorite sci-fi film of all time: Dark City.

:)

Sigh, my father in law is one of those people that firmly believes these books are evil, and warned my husband and I against them (we did not go into the fact that we read them years ago, and loved them). I think it is amusing that people are so willing to judge books that they haven't even read.