HomeGroupsTalkZeitgeist
This site uses cookies to deliver our services, improve performance, for analytics, and (if not signed in) for advertising. By using LibraryThing you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. Your use of the site and services is subject to these policies and terms.
  • LibraryThing
  • Book discussions
  • Your LibraryThing
  • Join to start using.

Your library in Dewey

New features

Join LibraryThing to post.

1timspalding
Jul 24, 2017, 12:31pm Top

Read the blog post: http://blog.librarything.com/main/2017/07/your-library-in-dewey/

Try it out with your own: https://www.librarything.com/profile/MEMBERNAME/stats/ddc (if you’re signed in, “MEMBERNAME” will work to get you there)

Here's what it looks like:


Also, try posting your page to Facebook and Twitter—it will look nice, will a full-sized graphic. (It might take a moment to look nice.)

Discussion questions:

1. What do you think?
2. What problems do you see?
3. What do you think about the Facebook and Twitter posting?
4. We should deal with the problem of bad work-level DDC numbers. I suspect you'll find some. I regenerated our calculated DDCs across the system, but there are definitely problems. I need to decide how members can fix them. Options include just having a Common Knowledge field for the top-level DDC, or having a voting system.

2Lyndatrue
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 6:01pm Top

I'm rather surprised that many of my books are even counted as having DDC information. I looked, because I was curious, but it's not really information that I (normally) care about.

I'm not sure about your having a voting system, since it seems as though it's (not always, anyway) not helpful. I'm still waiting on cover voting to matter (and I care a LOT more about that, than about Dewey stuffs).

It's clever, though.

3yoyogod
Jul 24, 2017, 12:47pm Top

The only surprise I came across was in the Arts & Recreation section, where I was a bit shocked to discover that I had 152 books in the "Drawing, Decoration, Design" section. Then I looked at it and saw that all of my comic collections, graphic novels, manga, and books on comic history are lumped in that category. I suppose that's the way Dewey is supposed to work, but it seems odd to have so many works of fiction in an otherwise nonfiction category.

4prosfilaes
Jul 24, 2017, 12:49pm Top

I'd like to see a range or standard deviation marked somewhere, maybe just on the popup tip. So instead of 79X saying Others: 27.7%, Others usually, 2.0%-30.0%, avg. 27.7%.

5lorax
Jul 24, 2017, 12:51pm Top

Does it use work-level or book-level data?

6PhaedraB
Jul 24, 2017, 1:14pm Top

We're pretty close on religion (you've got me by two percentages) but I blow your numbers away with occult! Actually, I'm surprised I've got so little coming up as ancient and medieval; I imagine most of it is lumped into occult.

7Taphophile13
Jul 24, 2017, 1:24pm Top

Interesting to see that most of my books fall within expected categories although a few individual books sort of surprised me.

As for Facebook and Twitter posting, I couldn't care less. LT is my only social media site.

8timspalding
Jul 24, 2017, 1:37pm Top

>5 lorax:

Book, failing to work, like on your catalog.

9timspalding
Jul 24, 2017, 1:39pm Top

>6 PhaedraB:

I'm recataloging my library at present. I'm part done. But it has my occult at 57% https://www.librarything.com/profile/thomasldintypig/stats/mds — still not touching yours.

10jjwilson61
Jul 24, 2017, 1:41pm Top

My biggest surprise was that most of my History of Science or History of Mathematics books are classified under Science or Mathematics, not History.

11Vecna
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 1:54pm Top

>6 PhaedraB:

Tim directed me here from a Twitter conversation and it looks like you've just beaten me out on Occult as well. Sad times.

No wait, happy times. Now I have to buy more books and reclaim the percentage trophy!

12Crypto-Willobie
Jul 24, 2017, 1:53pm Top

I'm surprised it doesn't break literature down into fiction, poetry, drama, criticism, etc. But maybe that's just my ignorance of the Dewey system..

13prosfilaes
Jul 24, 2017, 2:02pm Top

>12 Crypto-Willobie: If you go to the MDS page, like https://www.librarything.com/mds/81 , you'll see that each individual language level is broken down by poetry, drama, fiction, etc., but it's broken down into languages first, so it doesn't show on this new page.

14casvelyn
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 2:05pm Top

I love it! I love Dewey and statistics and bar graphs!

>1 timspalding: Re Q. 4: You've probably thought of this already, but there are some books where I think we'd all agree the current assigned call number is wrong, but we'd disagree on where it should be. >10 jjwilson61: is a prime example; I would put History of Science/Math in the 500s, but apparently he wouldn't. My thought process is this: I'm a historian. History goes in the 900s, History of Math goes with the rest of the math. Because even though it's a history, it's really about math. I suspect a mathematician might want his History of Math in the 900s because the 500s are for actual math, and History of Math isn't math, it's history.

(While in library school, I worked on a project involving epistemology/gnoseology, taxonomy, controlled/uncontrolled vocabulary, and crowd-sourced cataloging. Sadly it never really went anywhere. I still love the subject, though.)

ETA: I'd love it if the graphs went to the XXX.X level, but I suspect down that path lies madness...

15drj
Jul 24, 2017, 2:08pm Top

Hi! I am a retired librarian and had cataloged my own library long before the internet and LibraryThing. Thanks so much for this feature. I am not surprised by my peaks or valleys. Great tool and a lit of fun.

16timspalding
Jul 24, 2017, 2:09pm Top

>12 Crypto-Willobie:

Public libraries rarely use Dewey for fiction, actually. It's for everything else.

ETA: I'd love it if the graphs went to the XXX.X level, but I suspect down that path lies madness...

Yeah. Go look at it in your catalog. Otherwise, madness.

17lorax
Jul 24, 2017, 2:11pm Top

>8 timspalding:

Good. What I would have expected, but the reference to "bad work-level" data made me worry. (I assumed, perhaps wrongly, that anyone who is interested enough to use this feature would have checked their data, and have book-level data available.)

18tardis
Jul 24, 2017, 2:11pm Top

Very cool! I don't have time to play with it properly right now but will spend some time with it later today.

19lorannen
Jul 24, 2017, 2:16pm Top

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by how overwhelmingly my "literature" class outstrips all others in my library, but I kind of am, anyway. 64.3%!

20lorax
Jul 24, 2017, 2:18pm Top

>14 casvelyn:

History of math is in math because that's where Dewey thought it should go. The whole point of classification is that it's consistent. You're free to file your own history of math books in history, but then you aren't using DDC.

"History" in DDC seems to be a very old-fashioned use of the word (which is completely understandable given the age of the classification), referring only to histories of geographic regions. History of math or technology or even of a social group doesn't go in 9xx. (Black history and queer history and so forth are in 305, for instance.)

21Crypto-Willobie
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 8:21pm Top

>12 Crypto-Willobie:
Thanks
>16 timspalding:
So, do poetry, drama and lit-crit count as 'fiction' then?

ETA -- ah, I see now -- should've have read the blog post and clicked around more...

22timspalding
Jul 24, 2017, 2:40pm Top

>17 lorax:

So, I think the answer should be a CK field, and then we just DEAL. If someone says they want their copy in 123 not 321, great, they can do that to THEIR copy.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by how overwhelmingly my "literature" class outstrips all others in my library, but I kind of am, anyway. 64.3%!

That's above the average (mean). I also calculated the median--the middle number. It's higher—68%.

In other words, most people have mostly-fiction libraries. But the people who have non-fiction books in abundance have more books. If mean is charted against library size, it goes steadily up. This makes intuitive sense to me.

Here's the raw data from 0-9.



Black history and queer history and so forth are in 305, for instance

Oh, Dewey is a mess in so many ways. There's been an effort to change all the horrible labels, but the classification itself is semi-fixed. Until the heat death of universe we're going to be using a system that gives Christianity about 90 top-level classes, and puts Buddhism to the right of the decimal point.

The one I find very revealing—Unitarianism (500k?) gets the same amount of space as Catholicism (1.6b). But in 1870 central Massachusetts this made perfect sense. It made demographic sense in that context. And Dewey was a notorious bigot--such a bad bigot, against Jews, and skirt chaser than the ALA sanctioned him BACK THEN.

23PhaedraB
Jul 24, 2017, 2:53pm Top

>11 Vecna: I thought my late husband's library would beat mine (ibonewits) but he's only at 77%. I separated our books a couple of years ago, so now I wonder what it would be if they were combined again. But his library has more books than mine, so although he might beat me on raw numbers, I've got the percentage.

24lorax
Jul 24, 2017, 2:55pm Top

I just now noticed that you say we're being compared to other libraries of (similar) size, which presumably normalizes out that "larger libraries are more non-fiction" effect. Cool! (I'm at 56.1% 8xx myself, but the grey bar says 51.6% for similar-sized libraries.)

25gilroy
Jul 24, 2017, 3:12pm Top

My lit is only 61.4%... I feel like I'm slacking or something. :)

26timspalding
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 3:16pm Top

>24 lorax:

Ugh. Now I forgot about that too!

Here's 8XX (literature) by size.

27jjwilson61
Jul 24, 2017, 3:24pm Top

Well, here's one that just wrong, https://www.librarything.com/work/5110874. It's classified under Religion/Bible but it's a collection of texts from all over the ancient Middle East, many of which have nothing to do with the Bible, or even religion.

28EMS_24
Jul 24, 2017, 3:25pm Top

Hi
I do not have any knowledge about Dewey, but i see that my Dutch Books are listed in American language and in German language in 8XX (literature), and none of them in 'otherlanguages'.

29gilroy
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 3:29pm Top

>27 jjwilson61: That book only has 4 copies listing in in the 930s, while the rest have it as a 220 or 221. So it looks like work level is putting it in 221.93 .

30davidgn
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 3:31pm Top

>28 EMS_24: Probably this has to do with translations of the same work providing the Dewey data. Another argument for 1) UDC (& Bliss) and, more importantly, 2) an editions layer. ;-)

31gilroy
Jul 24, 2017, 3:32pm Top

>30 davidgn: But Tim said it grabs book level first, then work level should there be nothing on the book level. This suggests needing to check the DDC listed on your personal book.

32davidgn
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 3:42pm Top

>31 gilroy: Thanks for that detail. It adds complexity, but the analysis still works out the same in this case. Dutch libraries mostly use UDC, not DDC, if I'm not mistaken. So DDC info is going to be missing at the book level (unless it was catalogued by some -- presumably foreign -- library that does use DDC, and that library was used as the Add Books data source).

ETA: I guess I am mistaken. http://www.udcc.org/index.php/site/page?view=users_worldwide
The Dutch have their own homebrew system. https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/SISO
(And their own BISAC equivalent too, apparently: http://www.nbdbiblion.nl/product/pim )

33lorax
Jul 24, 2017, 3:39pm Top

>28 EMS_24:

DDC classifications are based on the original language of the work; a book by an American author writing in English will remain in 813 even if it is translated into another language.

34_Zoe_
Jul 24, 2017, 3:42pm Top

>27 jjwilson61: Honestly, I don't have a problem with that. The original work was called Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament.

35davidgn
Jul 24, 2017, 3:45pm Top

>33 lorax: That makes sense... and shows how much I know. :-P

36casvelyn
Jul 24, 2017, 3:47pm Top

>16 timspalding: Yeah. Go look at it in your catalog. Otherwise, madness.

Hey, in 11 years I've never once asked for a pony. This is my pony. :)

37EMS_24
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 4:03pm Top

Thanks >30 davidgn: , >33 lorax:
fyi:
The 'German' listed books have all:
DDC/MDS Literature > German > Literature in other Germanic languages > Literature in Dutch or Flemish > Dutch literature > Fiction >
And the few 'American' listed:
DDC/MDS 813 Literature > American And Canadian > Fiction >
and the non-listed: DDC/MDS Not set/calculated

38jjwilson61
Jul 24, 2017, 4:09pm Top

>34 _Zoe_: The original work was called Ancient Near Eastern Texts Relating to the Old Testament.

It's not called that anymore and I believe the contents have changed. In any case I've moved my copy (and volume 2) to 935.

39prosfilaes
Jul 24, 2017, 4:23pm Top

>28 EMS_24: None of them should be in Other languages; literatures in Germanic languages besides English and German are found under 839.

40abbottthomas
Jul 24, 2017, 4:51pm Top

Someone please explain why https://www.librarything.com/work/12154777/workdetails/19754424 - Basil the Great Mouse Detective is coded 268.81 Christian Organisation, Social Work, Worship - Christian Education.

41Lyndatrue
Jul 24, 2017, 4:54pm Top

Well, now, that's strange. Encyclopedia of Fairies and Mirrorshades are both classed in Social Sciences. I can't decide which choice is funnier. If I knew how to move them out, I'd still probably not bother. I love funny, it's my favorite thing. :-}

42lorax
Jul 24, 2017, 4:56pm Top

>40 abbottthomas:

Because it was wrong in the source you used to enter it. It happens.

43davidgn
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 5:03pm Top

>40 abbottthomas: Yeah, that's just wrong. http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/ClassifyDemo?search-standnum-txt=%09078882659...

>42 lorax: Looks like they used amazon.co.uk , actually. So unclear where the data came from. Add it again from British Library using the ISBN (0590705954 ) and it should be fixed. (Insofar as their opinion of 823/.914 is suitable to you).

44Lyndatrue
Jul 24, 2017, 5:01pm Top

I also note that Galileo's Daughter is under Astronomy. Now I'm thinking there are going to be lots of things I'd want to change. It's an interesting book, albeit one-sided (we have his letters, but not hers). Astronomy? Not really.

45Taphophile13
Jul 24, 2017, 5:03pm Top

>40 abbottthomas: Church mouse?

46timspalding
Jul 24, 2017, 5:03pm Top

>40 abbottthomas:

Yeah. I've got some too. I'll post about them soon. We're trying to see if the MARC is somehow coded differently for those.

47amanda4242
Jul 24, 2017, 5:10pm Top

There are some interesting results with my movies:

Face/Off is Information > Manuscripts and rare books
Life of Brian is Information > Formerly "Biographies"; Currently unassigned (I must admit I'm fond of this one)

48lorax
Jul 24, 2017, 5:16pm Top

>47 amanda4242:

Why on earth would you expect the results of a book classification system to be anything other than complete nonsense for something that is not a book? That's like asking what language an apple speaks.

49davidgn
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 5:20pm Top

50amanda4242
Jul 24, 2017, 5:19pm Top

>48 lorax: I wasn't expecting it; I was just sharing some odd results that I found amusing.

51amanda4242
Jul 24, 2017, 5:20pm Top

>49 davidgn: Thank you! Off to make some changes...

52casvelyn
Jul 24, 2017, 5:23pm Top

>47 amanda4242: I have movies in my other account and quite a few of them had some odd and entertaining autogenerated call numbers. I ended up reassigning them to the call number for film and television (it's somewhere in the 700s under recreation and entertainment, I don't remember where). I briefly toyed with the idea of putting them in the 800s, as they are works of fiction, but it skewed my data too much.

53jjwilson61
Jul 24, 2017, 5:42pm Top

Is 005.2/76 the same as 005.276? Because the catalog code with MDS turned on seems to be treating it as just 005.2.

54anglemark
Jul 24, 2017, 5:53pm Top

For languages with long words, like German and Swedish, the fixed positions of the staples make the category names close to unreadable in several places on the localised site.

55Lyndatrue
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 6:12pm Top

Okay, so what ought we to do with all this data? I ask in the generic sense, not because it's important to me. I often clean things up, when I recognize that the data provided is "ratty" (it's a compulsion, and I'm talking about my own books, for the most part).

Should I correct my copies, where the data is clearly wrong? Should I start asking where things *ought* to go, or where things should be assigned? Is it helpful to others for me to correct data on a copy, or does it not matter to the general population?

I note that I have books with DDC numbers that seem odd to me, since they're (in some cases) 200 or 300 years old, but I recognize that it doesn't prevent them from being classified. I'm more interested in such things as the collection of science fiction short stories, Mirrorshades, being incorrectly classified (as an example) than in the strangeness of DDC entries in general (poor Barry Stevens is off in the Occult).

It does make me want to enter more books, though, just to skew the data a bit (in my own library).

ETA: I find it interesting that 12-13% of my library has no DDC entry at all. :=}

56PhaedraB
Jul 24, 2017, 6:15pm Top

I have a fair number of manuscripts cataloged in ibonewits but none show up in the Manuscripts category. I'm not surprised, since they're all manual entries. Is there a way to fix that?

57_Zoe_
Jul 24, 2017, 6:26pm Top

>38 jjwilson61: Of course you're welcome to classify it however you like, but when Pritchard begins his preface with the statement that "The aim of this volume is to make available in convenient form those ancient Near Eastern documents which are important for an understanding of biblical peoples and their writings", it seems a bit much to declare that the bible classification is "just wrong".

58_Zoe_
Jul 24, 2017, 6:34pm Top

Anyway, perhaps more significantly, the 221.9 classification is actually printed inside the 2011 edition. Presumably the publisher's classification holds at least a bit of weight here?

59lemontwist
Jul 24, 2017, 6:47pm Top

Pretty neat, I like it! I actually have something very similar in my books spreadsheet (which I will stay faithful to regardless of how much I love LT) with library of congress categories. I'm always excited to cross a new one off the list.

60timspalding
Jul 24, 2017, 6:58pm Top

>55 Lyndatrue:

Bathe in it!

I'll be rolling out a few more things like this soon. Frankly, I find it fun in the way that the tag mirror is fun, or something that tells me what time I tend to post on Twitter, etc.

61bragan
Jul 24, 2017, 7:19pm Top

This is fascinating and I think I'm going to be spending quite a while playing with it.

But I did notice one thing: it's including books from my wishlist collection. Is there a way to exclude that so we can get a look at the stats for only the books we actually have? That would seem much preferable to me.

62AnnieMod
Jul 24, 2017, 7:25pm Top

>61 bragan:

I just stopped by to ask the same - can some collections be excluded (in my case Read but unowned)?

63timspalding
Jul 24, 2017, 8:26pm Top

If you're on the "Board for Extreme Thing Advances"--a private group for beta-testing new features--check out https://www.librarything.com/topic/265793

If you want in, PM me.

64justifiedsinner
Jul 24, 2017, 9:05pm Top

Shows you how skewed Dewey is to Christianity. Everything else is dumped into "Other Religions".

65timspalding
Edited: Jul 24, 2017, 9:12pm Top

Yup. It made sense in 1876 Northampton, MA, maybe. I mean, the goal of a system like Dewey might be misunderstood as an attempt to map realit, but really it's trying provide as much accuracy as possible, with the shortest numbers possible. This means mapping the system to the books you have.

In his time it fit. Now it doesn't. Still, it has its strengths.

66lorannen
Jul 24, 2017, 11:53pm Top

>54 anglemark: Staples? What staples are you referring to?

>56 PhaedraB: They probably don't have any DDC info associated with them, even at the work-level. Add a Dewey call number, and they should populate there.

67PhaedraB
Jul 24, 2017, 11:57pm Top

68WholeHouseLibrary
Jul 25, 2017, 12:49am Top

When I first joined LibraryThing, over ten years ago, I was already in the throes of reorganizing the books in my house according to Dewey. They had been shelved by order of acquisition. Being overly obsessive-compulsive, I included forty columns of information about each book, including its dimensions and weight, and four different cataloging types. My wife, being a librarian, owned a Dewey classification manual, which used more than she did.
To the point: We had over 2,400 books. Other sheets included the dimensions and number of of shelves of every bookshelf in the house, and a quantification of the number and linear footage (width) of the Dewey numbers, grouped by tens and by the hundreds. Another sheet told me which book went on which shelf and its neighboring books. In the end, it took less than two hours to completely rearrange all the books in my house according the Dewey (Melvin, really).
And whereas I was impressed with seeing the numbers, I never thought to graph them.

69anglemark
Jul 25, 2017, 6:19am Top

>66 lorannen: The actual staples. Isn't that the term? The staples whose height tells how many books we have for that call number? There are ten of them for every category and they are equidistant, which makes the descriptions for the call numbers overlap so they can't be read, if the descriptions contain long words.

70gilroy
Jul 25, 2017, 7:40am Top

>55 Lyndatrue: ETA: I find it interesting that 12-13% of my library has no DDC entry at all. :=}

How'd you find this number? I kinda want to dig for the same. :)

71waitingtoderail
Edited: Jul 25, 2017, 8:12am Top

>69 anglemark: I've always just heard them called "bars." Staples are metal fasteners that hold paper together. Or a chain store of office supplies.

72anglemark
Jul 25, 2017, 8:23am Top

>71 waitingtoderail: Ah, of course. I'm being fooled by the Swedish word for 'bar' here. Thanks!

73gilroy
Jul 25, 2017, 9:56am Top

Question as I start poking through the various books I have:

How are things like Fic or E being parsed for the sake of these lists? If there is a Dewey number to replace them, should we?

74StJosephIssaquah
Jul 25, 2017, 10:34am Top

Should we comment on or try to correct errors? I've got one listed as "OXX - Information - Library Information" that is clearly wrong:
Going to the book page and expanding "Show All" Under "Work Details" lists 2 correct categories but the main one is wrong.
https://www.librarything.com/work/9358515/workdetails/95365639

75Lyndatrue
Jul 25, 2017, 10:42am Top

>70 gilroy: You're going to be disappointed to hear the answer. It's a math thing. I know how many books I have (LT told me). I added up all the books in each of the categories (Literature has 434, for example), and then subtracted the one from the other, and then divided the lesser number by the greater. Voila! Guesstimate.

I should note that I took the number of all the books in my collection, including things like "read but not owned," since we're talking DDC which will be there whether I own them or not.

Here's the thing, though. I've seen an SF book classified as religion, and any number of similar foolishness. Now that I have that top row of classifications, I'm just going to make up my own numbers when I see something nonsensical. I've already learned that if you just remove the number, the system knows there should be one, and you get the fearsome green crap instead. I don't want it to be green, so I will just go in and put a book in its proper main category (everyone can now breathe a sigh of relief).

I've done this already with a book, where the classification was so terribly far off. I just go look at a similar book that *isn't* wrong, and use that number. Piece of cake. I may get around to doing this with all my books, sooner or later. Probably later; I'm busy with other things right now.

76gilroy
Edited: Jul 25, 2017, 11:11am Top

>75 Lyndatrue: Math I can handle...
Then again, I started going by tag and trying to fill in numbers using davidgn 's link to the oclc classification site. And guessing when it wasn't there. So I think I dropped it down to 5% uncategorized.

77lorax
Edited: Jul 25, 2017, 11:12am Top

Even though I know how important data visualization is, and to never underestimate the power of a good visualization, I'm still always amazed when something like this rolls out at how many people seem to have not only never looked at the data before, but never even knew it was there.

So, some generalities:

* Any bad data is not the fault of LT, should not be blamed on LT, and should not result in LT being mocked here. It is the result of bad data either in your import source, if black data is present, or in aggregate if green data is present.

* Many public libraries do not use Dewey for fiction. If your fiction/literature number is unexpectedly low, check (by including DDC/MDS as a column, and sorting on it) whether you have something like "FIC" appearing.

* This data is editable at the book-level. If you have bad data, fix it, don't complain. The only situation in which it's an error is if the count of the graph does not match the actual data in your library.

* To that end, please consider looking up a title in something like OCLC Classify, rather than "making up" a number when you edit. DDC data bubbles up to the work level, and careless entry can affect others.

* Similarly, please understand that there's no "fuzzy" Dewey - if you enter 500, it will be understood as being exactly 500, rather than "somewhere in Science" (represented in the graph by "5xx").

78Lyndatrue
Jul 25, 2017, 11:27am Top

>77 lorax: Thank you for the OCLC Classify link. I have only changed one book so far, and that will be enormously helpful for when I get serious about this, later in the year. I certainly always knew that the Dewey entries were there, but (until now) I just ignored them.

I care about page numbers, but I care because it helps to identify which edition something is. I care about covers because they're as much a part of the history of books as they are an identification of the work itself. I've lost count of the number of covers I've scanned in that I'm sure look pretty much the same as any other red book (but they're NOT the same to me).

Numbers in general are pretty interesting, even when the focus is skewed (by having all the other religions clustered off in a tiny bucket, for example).

Thanks again for the info; I promise I'll be careful.

79jjwilson61
Jul 25, 2017, 11:32am Top

This is fun. I had The emperors new mind classified as 530.1, Theoretical Physics, but I didn't remember it primarily being a physics book. So I looked it up on that OCLC Classify page that someone posted and it turns out that the majority of the time it's classified as 006.3, Artificial Intelligence, but also sometimes as 153.4, Judgement and Reason. I agree with the majority in this case and changed it to 006.3.

80PhaedraB
Jul 25, 2017, 12:01pm Top

>77 lorax: Thanks for the OCLC Classify link. Every time I think I'm mostly done with my books, I find another marvelous LT time sink. :-D

81bethuneco
Jul 25, 2017, 3:28pm Top

Tried posting mine on FB but the picture was blank.

82StJosephIssaquah
Jul 25, 2017, 4:08pm Top

Thanks - used OCLCClassify and public libraray catalog to correct mine

83Lyndatrue
Jul 25, 2017, 4:49pm Top

I've already solved one of those puzzling errors (and thank you, lorax, again for the OCLC Classify link). There was random garbage data in the Dewey column (an item I've always ignored, before today, but will watch with interest from now on).

I'd pulled Implied Spaces (by Walter Jon Williams) from the Seattle Public Library, and it had "SCI-FIC WILLIAM 2008" where 813.6 should have been, and is now.

I'm through with the 1XX and 2XX categories, and I'll probably do 7XX later on. I will also examine every book I add from now on, making sure that they're proper.

84SusanTahiti
Jul 25, 2017, 4:50pm Top

My library shows I have half English and half Italian books but I don't have any Italian books, so not sure what that means. Also, I have hundreds of books about Africa and the same for South America but it shows only a tiny percentage for each. So really confusing so far.

85timspalding
Jul 25, 2017, 6:07pm Top

>84 SusanTahiti:

I think perhaps you're looking at someone else's data. Here's your data https://www.librarything.com/profile/SusanTahiti/stats/library

86timspalding
Jul 25, 2017, 6:21pm Top

I'm redoing the work-level data right now, mostly so that it can go in a new table that has a place for a canonical answer. But I'll see if I can't twist it slightly toward better data. We're currently letting the data bubble up from the book level, but that ignores that the book-level data is of varying quality, and we have lots of library records we're not using.

87emilyesears
Jul 25, 2017, 7:23pm Top

Just wanted to say this is a cool feature! Definitely accurately displays my nonfiction interests--low on the math/science, high on the history/literature.

88lorannen
Jul 25, 2017, 7:37pm Top

>81 bethuneco: Shoot us an email at info@librarything.com with some more details (i.e. a link to where we can see your post), and we'll be happy to take look and help you from there.

89kleh
Edited: Jul 25, 2017, 8:42pm Top

As an ex library assistant, I shelve in Dewey sequence, so the graph of my books has a pretty good correlation with the size and shape of my bookshelves (an entire bedroom devoted to the 9XXs).

I have a manual entry for every book, and source my numbers by a mixture of reference to http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/ , a second hand copy of Dewey decimal classification and relative index and guesswork.
I occasionally modify the numbers, where I want to keep certain books together, but I note the conventional classification in the comments field.
This probably doesn't help the accuracy of the calculated work-level number.

Please can we have the data displayed as pie charts too.

90kleh
Edited: Jul 25, 2017, 9:42pm Top

>25 gilroy: Ha! My literature is 14.9%, and I still haven't catalogued half of my travel or my IT yet.
And I took a literature degree...

91casvelyn
Jul 25, 2017, 8:58pm Top

If anybody really wants to get deep into assigning call numbers, the Dewey Decimal Classification and Relative Index Edition 20 (1989) is available free on archive.org. Only three editions behind, so probably not too horribly out of date. It's in the OCLC collection, so I figure they know it's there and don't mind.

92ScarletBea
Jul 26, 2017, 3:45am Top

I like that Bringing Up Baby Dragons is under "Customs, Etiquette, Folklore" :)))

93eromsted
Jul 26, 2017, 10:08am Top

I would very much appreciate a collections selector settings as per the "Physical properties" stats subsection. Of course, I'd actually like this for every stats subsection.

94RaucousRain
Jul 26, 2017, 1:08pm Top

I love the Dewey feature! Just spent the better part of two hours enjoying it -- thanks so much!! I always thought my 900s were about equal to my 800s ... such a surprise to discover I have way more lit than I thought. Then I looked around a bit more & clicked on physical properties ... learned my book stack is higher than Big Ben. Wow! Very cool.

95Carnophile
Jul 26, 2017, 1:42pm Top

The best thing about the blog post on this is the phrase "library cartel."

I knew this guy who messed with the library cartel once. He woke up one morning with his first edition of Gutenberg's Bible ripped to shreds in his bed.

96macsbrains
Edited: Jul 26, 2017, 1:45pm Top

And now I can visually see why Dewey has never made any sense to me whatsoever. To me browsing in a library has always been akin to shopping in a supermarket or department store where it's impossible to find that one thing that you're looking for that you know they have. (I tried to buy vinegar once in the supermarket last year and was searching for over an hour until I resorted to methodically eliminating every shelf in every aisle. By that point I was expecting to find it with baby wipes, and indeed, I eventually found it in the last aisle next to vegetables. Apparently "un-cold bottled wet things" is not a category?)

I'm still in the process of adding and fixing the standard Dewey numbers in my catalog, but in my mind my non-fiction is categorized into Science/Science, Science/Math, Science/Language, and Not-Science. This is a definite spur to go back to working on the developing a useful system for the custom call number field.

97PhaedraB
Jul 26, 2017, 3:41pm Top

>96 macsbrains: My goodness, you have far more patience than I. When I can't find something, I ask an employee!

98macsbrains
Jul 26, 2017, 4:10pm Top

>97 PhaedraB: I have considered drawing a map in case I ever go back. I was since informed that for people who cook it makes sense for the vinegar to be there because of salads. But since boiling water in the microwave counts as cooking to me, I didn't even know there were things on the other side of the vegetable aisle at all. I just needed the vinegar to mix with baking soda for a mild sink clog. I had slightly better luck finding the baking soda (though it was not with other sacks of white powdery substances) but I kept expecting to find the vinegar with either Drano or the tomato sauces. Yes, supermarkets are basic knowledge for most people, but I am a product of 2 generations of "eat out of the can and don't even bother to heat it up."

I'm currently trying to place my mythologies, which apparently go under the 200s, except for one that's in the 300s because folklore is in the 300s. And I have no idea what to do with The Lands of Ice and Fire which I want to put with maps and atlases, but Dewey wants me to put with fiction because it must matter if it's a map of a real place or not. I also need to look into why graphic novels are shelved under arts and recreation instead of fiction, because this causes my actual artbooks to be placed with them, whereas in my house they're not even near each other. Other people have such strange logic! :-)

99Kuiperdolin
Jul 26, 2017, 6:25pm Top

1.I think it's terrible.

2.There are two main problems with this feature : the concept and the execution.
a- as others have already noted, there are lots of goofy classifications around (my favorite : the Devil's Dictionary in Language/English. Its gut dickshunary in it!), which make my stats (and presumably others') a joke. With a lot of work this might conceivably be improved to an extent.
BUT
b- as others have already noted, ultimately the Dewey classification is terrible, impractical and outdated. It's a rigid, hierarchical classification where a given work could fall in hald a dozen arbitrary places and yet not really fit in any of them. It might have been a necessary evil in the time of quills and typewriters but trying to drag it into the digital age is like insisting tank men wear spurs.
Librarything has a fine classification systems in tags; it's flexible, it's usable, it can deal with books having more than one subject, it does not have weird parochialisms like languages classified into "English/Frog/two or three other European languages with no noteworthy author/Others". There are some bad tags floating around bust mostly the good ones crowd them out. It's a thousand times better than Dewey. That, if anything, is what should be developed; although as I said it's fine as it stands.

3.Nothing.

4.You should not do anything. Fixing individual numbers is a false, superficial solution that will do nothing to address the real problem. Maybe rollback the feature if practical, otherwise just let it stand in perpetual beta.

100Lyndatrue
Jul 26, 2017, 7:14pm Top

Oh, dear. I broke it. Well, someone did, in any case.

The reported error was:

Problem with the concurrent query manager in the LibraryThing Bureau of Garbage Collections.
We have an entire room of trained monkeys working to solve the problem..


Please fix the new toy. I don't have any spare monkeys, or I'd offer some extras up.

101bw42
Edited: Jul 26, 2017, 7:51pm Top

I just got this error while trying to edit Copperheads by Sherrie Bargar so maybe it has nothing to do with the new toy.

And got it again trying to edit Abraham Lincoln by James M. McPherson .

102timspalding
Jul 26, 2017, 7:56pm Top

Okay, should be good.

You'll find the work-level DDCs updated. The new data is better. The old would see some oddities like "123.12.99" and read it as 123.99. The new uses the right cleaning techniques on it.

103jjwilson61
Edited: Jul 26, 2017, 11:15pm Top

>98 macsbrains: And I have no idea what to do with The Lands of Ice and Fire which I want to put with maps and atlases, but Dewey wants me to put with fiction because it must matter if it's a map of a real place or not.

Dewey put my You are here : personal geographies and other maps of the imagination in 912 with the other books on maps. The OCLC Classify page shows that at least some libraries are putting "The Lands of Ice and Fire" there as well, so I wouldn't have any qualms changing the number on the book record to that.

104lorax
Jul 27, 2017, 9:39am Top

>98 macsbrains:

I kept expecting to find the vinegar with either Drano or the tomato sauces.

Stores very rarely mix food and non-food items. The one exception I've seen frequently is baking soda, where small containers are with food (in the baking section, near flour and sugar) and large ones are with cleaning supplies, since it serves both purposes. I'd look for vinegar near things like salad dressings and other sauces, but not with canned vegetables. (Tomato sauce goes next to canned tomatoes and other canned veggies in most stores; sauces with tomato as an ingredient that are not tomato sauce, like ketchup and barbecue sauce, are elsewhere.) But if you were thinking "I need this to clean my drain!" I can see why you'd look by the drain cleaner.

105lorax
Jul 27, 2017, 9:39am Top

>99 Kuiperdolin:

Oh, for Pete's sake.

LT has had Dewey classifications available since forever. This is a visualization, nothing more, and problems with either misclassification of individual books or with the DDC classification in general are not the fault of LT.

106gilroy
Jul 27, 2017, 9:52am Top

>99 Kuiperdolin: Always at least one negative wet blanket in every crowd...

107Lyndatrue
Edited: Jul 27, 2017, 11:17am Top

Often, when new things like this show up on LT, I note them, but (mostly) ignore them. This one has really appealed to me, because it helps to remove the ratty data that otherwise percolates up, and in books that are more rare, can really have a strong effect.

I do have a question, though. I've gone through all the categories except literature (which is where the majority of my books are), and I know that there are many of my books that are not categorized at all. Should I go through them, and see whether the OCLC tool recognizes them, and has an opinion? I don't mind doing it, here and there, as I come upon them, but wonder if it's useful, or even wanted?

Here's an example (although this one probably doesn't matter that much, since there's only two entries for it here on LT):

http://www.librarything.com/work/3973720/book/119784579

There is, indeed, an entry for it.

http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/ClassifyDemo?wi=39457199

(621.385)

I think I'll add it, because it affects, at most, one other person than myself. I love that little book; it's fun, and still informative.

ETA: One of the most gratifying things about this is that a change, or a new entry, shows up immediately in the system.

108gilroy
Jul 27, 2017, 2:34pm Top

>107 Lyndatrue: Looks like there is one to combine, but I'm not sure how close it is to the same book, so I'm leaving it alone. :)

109Lyndatrue
Edited: Jul 27, 2017, 4:57pm Top

>108 gilroy: I really love the workbench. Needless to say, I combined them. All the same book. I love that book.

ETA: I looked in the library of the one I'd just combined, and it was added after I'd added mine. All fixed, now. :-}

110Kuiperdolin
Jul 28, 2017, 6:32am Top

This message has been flagged by multiple users and is no longer displayed (show)
>105 lorax: : "LT has had Dewey classifications available since forever."

So what? The new change brings it to the homepage and timspalding specifically asks what we think of it. It's like putting Drano on my breakfast, asking me how I like it, and when I answer not very much, saying : "But it's been under the sink forever and you never complained!".

"problems with either misclassification of individual books or with the DDC classification in general are not the fault of LT."

Of course they are, if Librarything endorses them.

>106 gilroy: : well there's always a majority of happy-go-cucky enablers claiming that everything is fine, and if it weren't, it would be a matter of taste. That's not useful feedback. This feature is objectively bad.

111gilroy
Edited: Jul 28, 2017, 7:09am Top

>110 Kuiperdolin: if Librarything endorses them.

I fail to see how this is an endorsement. It's using existing data to do something other than gather dust. It's buried under the profile, not out front where everyone can see. So NOT on the home page, unless one choses and it's not a module so will never be out there on the home page. And it can be ignored by those who so choose.

If you choose to hate the DDC, that's fine. Ignore the feature, delete that data point from each of your individual books.

Some of us find it interesting historical research of library cataloging and nothing more.

112rosalita
Jul 28, 2017, 9:24am Top

>110 Kuiperdolin: happy-go-cucky enablers

Wow, that's an incredibly offensive and inappropriately political term for an otherwise innocuous discussion about book classification. Like dropping a nuclear bomb on a Justin Bieber concert.

113lorax
Jul 28, 2017, 10:34am Top

>112 rosalita:

That particular choice of words tells everyone exactly how much worth Kuiperdolin's comments have, I think, as though equating a new data visualization with murder didn't do the same.

114timspalding
Jul 28, 2017, 11:02am Top

Hmm. Well, now I've got Despacito stuck in my head.

115rosalita
Edited: Jul 28, 2017, 11:06am Top

>113 lorax: Agreed.

>114 timspalding: I do, too, but for different reasons. I can't seem to escape hearing that song anywhere I go, including Twitter. It is quite a catchy tune (at least the original version; I've not heard the Bieber mashup), so it's not the worst earworm I've ever had.

116gilroy
Jul 28, 2017, 11:11am Top

>114 timspalding: Somehow, I feel fortunate to avoid that song. Heard a snippet and didn't see the draw...

117timspalding
Jul 28, 2017, 11:13am Top

>116 gilroy:

Bieber adds nothing whatsoever to it. I suppose he was roped into making a minor contribution to get it into the conscientiousness of the average American teenager. It worked. The original is catchy, though.

118Lyndatrue
Jul 28, 2017, 11:23am Top

>117 timspalding: As long as you're here, and paying attention, I'll ask this again:

...I know that there are many of my books that are not categorized at all. Should I go through them, and see whether the OCLC tool recognizes them, and has an opinion? I don't mind doing it, here and there, as I come upon them, but wonder if it's useful, or even wanted?

119jjwilson61
Jul 28, 2017, 11:27am Top

Is there any way to see how other books for the same work on LT have for their Dewey number? It would be more convenient than copying the title and pasting to the OCLC Classify page.

120PhaedraB
Jul 28, 2017, 11:29am Top

Sometimes I think I'm in an alternate pop culture universe. I heard it once.

But back to the topic, while taking a stab at finding codes for my really obscure no-code books. I found this reference:
http://bpeck.com/references/ddc/ddc.htm#table100

Many of my titles have LCCs, but not DDCs. Anyone have a suggestion of how to ballpark the latter from the former?

121PhaedraB
Jul 28, 2017, 11:32am Top

>119 jjwilson61: Many of my books have a green text number, which is what bubbles up from the other books. However, I have found different numbers for them in the OCLC tool, or the same number with more/different stuff after the decimal point.

122lorax
Jul 28, 2017, 11:33am Top

>120 PhaedraB:

This looks promising, but I haven't tested it myself:

https://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/classwebtutorial/9dewey.html

123gilroy
Jul 28, 2017, 11:33am Top

>119 jjwilson61: I go to the work and look at the work detail. If it has more than one DDC listed, it offers a section to expand and see where it is listed. Then I check my own book to see if it is part of the group or blank.

124PhaedraB
Jul 28, 2017, 11:35am Top

>119 jjwilson61: Short answer, no matter how you do it, it's a bit of a pain. It's def a project for the more compulsive of us. A long, tedious project that is ultimately only of use to me? Sign me up!

125casvelyn
Jul 28, 2017, 11:37am Top

>124 PhaedraB: A long, tedious project that is ultimately only of use to me? Sign me up!

Me too!

126PhaedraB
Jul 28, 2017, 11:39am Top

>122 lorax: Looks like that link uses WebDewey, which is a paid service. The forms on the linked page are all screen shots. I didn't find a way to find the forms themselves to try. Maybe you'll have better luck.

127jjwilson61
Edited: Jul 28, 2017, 12:16pm Top

>121 PhaedraB: Many of my books have a green text number, which is what bubbles up from the other books.

Yes, it would be interesting to see where that number comes from, and if it was the only choice or a result of a 49/51 split.

>123 gilroy: Thanks, that just what I was looking for.

128lorax
Jul 28, 2017, 2:15pm Top

>127 jjwilson61:

Yes, it would be interesting to see where that number comes from, and if it was the only choice or a result of a 49/51 split.

In the Dewey section of the Work Details, click on "Show All". It's slow to populate, so may not be up-to-date for recent-ish books, but it's better than nothing.

129Kathleen828
Jul 29, 2017, 6:26pm Top

I LOVE this! I love it! I love it! I love it!

As a cataloging librarian, this tells me volumes about my own books with just a cursory glance.

This is great!

Thank you so much!

130Kathleen828
Jul 29, 2017, 6:29pm Top

Dewey does do that breakdown, but at levels with more numbers after the decimal point.

131Kathleen828
Jul 29, 2017, 6:30pm Top

:-) :-) :-)

132lorannen
Jul 29, 2017, 6:37pm Top

>118 Lyndatrue: Sorry we missed your Q earlier. It's entirely up to you. It certainly wouldn't hurt—and would actively help the feature, in that the more data we have, the more accurate the average percentages are in the calculation for the All LT part of the graph. So, you're not just helping your own chart's accuracy, but everyone else's, too. If you feel so inclined, please go ahead! But it's certainly not required.

I've never been a Dewey fan, myself—I cut my teeth on LoC, and it was somewhat habit-forming. However, I'm going to update my own books over the next few weeks, for exactly the reasons I've outlined above!

133Lyndatrue
Jul 29, 2017, 7:29pm Top

>132 lorannen: Happy day, then! Even though there are things that are kind of dumb about it (such as the antiquated opinions about all religions other than christianity being relegated to their tiny little corner), it's still appealing to me. Pity I didn't find LT before I got rid of most of my books. Extra data is almost always useful.

I'm still going through my "Literature" books, but then I'll start on the end of my library, and work forward in time.

134oregonobsessionz
Jul 30, 2017, 12:10am Top

So here is another data point that I have ignored, but now that I can see it in a graph, I feel compelled to clean it up.

Started with hiking guides, as I have quite a few, and most are unclassified. The OCLC site puts them under biography & history in 917, along with histories of polar exploration, but that does not seem right.

Some of my books on climbing are in 796.5 outdoor leisure. That seems a better fit for hiking, but Dewey really shows its age in 796. Horse related sports, shooting sports, and winter sports all have specific categories, apparently leaving 796.5 to cover everything from suntanning to BASE jumping and wind surfing.

135oregonobsessionz
Jul 30, 2017, 12:37am Top

My Sasquatch (bigfoot) books are in 001.944. I thought knowledge was an odd category, but 001.9 is controversial knowledge, and 001.944 is monsters & related phenomena, including cryptozoology. =)

136davidgn
Edited: Jul 30, 2017, 12:48am Top

>135 oregonobsessionz: Yeah, but your squatch himself was last seen in https://www.librarything.com/mds/979.5 :-D .

137kswolff
Jul 30, 2017, 11:22am Top

I like the new feature. It's cool seeing how my books stack up.

Request: Would there be a way of parsing out "My Books," "Wishlist," and "Read But Unowned," especially for Physical Properties. Since I have a sizable Wishlist, this throws off the metrics of my Library stats. But Physical Properties would probably be the only place where this parsing would be necessary. I'm curious to know what others think.

138LibraryCin
Jul 30, 2017, 2:01pm Top

>19 lorannen: Me, too! I read such a wide range (including nonfiction!), but my "literature" still came up at 65.5%! I guess that wide range also includes a wide range of fictional genres!

Either way, I love stats, so this is fun to check out (even if some of the Dewey numbers might be questionable!).

139oregonobsessionz
Edited: Jul 30, 2017, 9:29pm Top

>136 davidgn:
Maybe, but there are reported to be quite a few in the Dark Divide area of Washington, between Mt. St. Helens and Mt. Adams. That is the area where D.B. Cooper probably landed, when he parachuted out of the plane he had hijacked. He is in 364.15 with various criminals.

140gilroy
Jul 30, 2017, 9:37pm Top

>139 oregonobsessionz: So D B Cooper was a Squatch?

141Kuiperdolin
Jul 31, 2017, 2:47pm Top

>111 gilroy: : "I fail to see how this is an endorsement."

And yet it is.

"It's buried under the profile, not out front where everyone can see. So NOT on the home page, unless one choses and it's not a module so will never be out there on the home page. And it can be ignored by those who so choose."



"If you choose to hate the DDC, that's fine. Ignore the feature, delete that data point from each of your individual books."

That would still not make it a good feature. It's similar to the blokes who answer critical reviews of a book with "Well you don't have to read it." Everybody knows they don't have to read that dumb book, it does not make it a good one. (not to mention the irony that people who don't like my critical feedback don't have to read either).

"Some of us find it interesting historical research of library cataloging and nothing more."

Good for you, that still does not make it a good feature.

142ThomasLDintypig
Edited: Jul 31, 2017, 3:25pm Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

143timspalding
Jul 31, 2017, 3:25pm Top

De featuribus non est disputandum.

144PhaedraB
Jul 31, 2017, 4:22pm Top

>141 Kuiperdolin: #ProTip: make your browser window smaller and you'll lose the News column.

145gilroy
Aug 1, 2017, 10:58am Top

>141 Kuiperdolin: people who don't like my critical feedback

Going back through your responses, I've seen criticism of Dewey. And how it should be destroyed. Yet to see decent critical feedback on how to make the feature better. (Outside of get rid of it.)

Also, your screen shot is only showing the home page with the blog posts, which will disappear as more stuff is posted to the blog. NOT the module.

146_Zoe_
Aug 1, 2017, 11:02am Top

It occurs to me that some of the people excited about this feature might also be interested in a challenge group devoted to reading through all the Dewey categories.

147jjwilson61
Aug 1, 2017, 11:11am Top

>146 _Zoe_: Are you trying to make Kuiperdolin's head explode?

148_Zoe_
Aug 1, 2017, 11:13am Top

>147 jjwilson61: No comment :)

149Lyndatrue
Aug 1, 2017, 11:29am Top

>147 jjwilson61: While I might support the possibility, here's something that makes my *own* head hurt. On many statistics available in Stats/Memes, you can look at the reverse, or at least at those things that aren't included. I've gone through all my books that are marked with Dewey numbers, and realized that there is simply no easy way for me to guess which of my books has no Dewey entry.

Short of editing each and every book that I've added to LT (which is probably what I'll end up doing in any case), I see no easy way to make a collection of books that ought to, and do not, have numbers that put them in those little Dewey buckets.

I'm happy to entertain any suggestions that would help. Please note that ANY book with an ISBN has a Dewey number (just in case someone was considering that as a suggestion). Lots of my books predate the ISBN era. I even own books that are older than I am (and I don't have an ISBN either).

150lorax
Aug 1, 2017, 11:31am Top

>147 jjwilson61:

Either that or to kill the Dewey group entirely by bringing in someone so hostile.

151lorax
Aug 1, 2017, 11:34am Top

>149 Lyndatrue:

Add Dewey as a column to your library. Sort on it, and books with no Dewey will come to the top. (I mentioned this way upthread, but it was a while ago.) You have 74 books without one.

152casvelyn
Edited: Aug 1, 2017, 11:36am Top

>149 Lyndatrue: If you're looking for which of your books have absolutely no Dewey entry, not even a green "calculated data" one, then you can easily find those by going to Your Books, adding Dewey/Melvil as one of the display columns, and then sorting by the Dewey/Melvil column. The blanks will sort to the bottom or the top, depending on whether you want it sorted 000-900 or the reverse.

If you're looking for any Dewey data you did not personally hand-enter, you can do the same thing with the Dewey/Melvil column and look for the green text. There's no easy way I know of to look for the green text otherwise.

You can edit the Dewey/Melvil column right in Your Books by double-clicking on the cell, so at least you don't have to go all the way into Edit Book each time.

ETA: Lorax beat me to it! And I'm a fast typist! :)

153_Zoe_
Aug 1, 2017, 12:42pm Top

>150 lorax: Well, we'll see. I do think there's a difference between ranting at Tim about a particular feature in a site forum, versus just pointlessly trolling powerless users in a reading group. Not that I have any personal experience of the former.

154lorax
Aug 1, 2017, 12:55pm Top

>153 _Zoe_:

Oh, I think there is too, but I think insulting everyone who likes this feature or finds Dewey useful crosses that line and is "pointlessly trolling powerless users", especially given the nature of the insult. (Send me a private message if you want to know.)

155Lyndatrue
Aug 1, 2017, 3:21pm Top

>151 lorax: and >152 casvelyn: There probably *was* this information, upthread, before I was honestly able to use it. Now that I'm fascinated with the concept, I'll make use of this. I've looked at the green text entries, and (at least in my library) they're usually correct, although sometimes they're more general, and I edit them to match what the OCLC tool suggests instead.

Thank you both very much for the suggestion. Now I can add in all the little outliers. :-}

156PhaedraB
Aug 1, 2017, 3:28pm Top

I've been sorting my library and going through every entry. It'll keep me out of trouble for a few months. Why? For fun. One more thing that no one other than me will ever care about, probably, but I like that it's done.

157casvelyn
Edited: Aug 1, 2017, 3:32pm Top

>155 Lyndatrue: You're welcome! The biggest flaw I've noticed in my library (of mostly fiction) is that with the green text, British authors are often labeled as American literature and American authors are often labeled as British literature. But I like the fiddly work, so I don't mind fixing them.

158oregonobsessionz
Aug 1, 2017, 3:42pm Top

>140 gilroy:
No, but he may have been eaten by one!

159LibraryCin
Aug 1, 2017, 8:33pm Top

>146 _Zoe_: Sounds fun! Really don't need more challenges, though!

160.mau.
Aug 2, 2017, 4:08am Top

awesome! (and by the way, the fact that MEMBERNAME is automagically converted in one's name is awesome too)

161lorannen
Aug 2, 2017, 12:02pm Top

>160 .mau.: Thanks! And that's a nifty trick that applies many places on the site—just about any URL that contains your username in it. So, for example: Your Books is https://www.librarything.com/catalog/MEMBERNAME, and so on.

162Lyndatrue
Edited: Aug 3, 2017, 1:40am Top

I'm just now looking at the books in my Catalog via the suggestion about viewing it with DDC as a column. I note that, in some cases, there's a slash inserted within the number. This seems wrong to me, and I expect I'll remove it (after checking with the OCLC tool to verify the number), but it's in quite a few (none in green text that I've seen, though).

In addition, what's the full name for the LC Classification (it's a column next to the DCC), and can I use the entries provided by the OCLC tool to make them all correct?

http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/

163casvelyn
Aug 3, 2017, 6:42am Top

>162 Lyndatrue: The slashes denote abridged numbers. I've been editing mine out. Apparently OCLC deprecated them in 2005. (See https://www.oclc.org/content/dam/oclc/dewey/discussion/papers/segmentation_marks.pdf)

LC is Library of Congress Classification. I've never catalogued using it, but the entries on Classify that I've looked at have seemed correct. LC is more common in academic libraries.

The Library of Congress has more details, but they charge for complete access to the schedules.
https://www.loc.gov/catdir/cpso/lcco/

164anglemark
Aug 3, 2017, 7:12am Top

Still no hope of fixing the mess described in >69 anglemark:?

165_Zoe_
Aug 3, 2017, 9:04am Top

This discussion reminds me that many features would be more discoverable if there were a bit more variety in the default catalogue display options.

166lorax
Aug 3, 2017, 9:54am Top

>165 _Zoe_:

Is Dewey really not in any of the defaults? That's surprising, and disappointing.

I agree with that 100%. The defaults should show as much as possible of the full range of available columns - put author and title in all of them, but other than that, mix it up!

167GracePointeChurch
Aug 3, 2017, 10:42am Top

>163 casvelyn: The Dewey Section at the Library of Congress stopped using multiple slash marks in 2005. They still use one slash mark to designate the end of the abridged DDC number. If you want to use the abridged DDC number, delete the slash mark and all of the numbers to the right of it. If you want to use the unabridged DDC number, just delete the slash mark.

168casvelyn
Aug 3, 2017, 11:20am Top

>167 GracePointeChurch: Thanks, I misread the announcement when I was looking it up. I use the full numbers, personally (up to a point; I hate call numbers with a zillion digits after the decimal), so I just get rid of the slashes.

Okay, new question: How would the DDC field handle cutters in terms of the information bubbling up to the work level? I use custom call numbers for shelving, so all my Dewey work is just for fun, but if I was using Dewey, I would be using cutters as well. So I could have a call number that looked something like 929.2 G847s 1977 and the only part of that that is relevant to other users would be the 929.2.

169_Zoe_
Aug 3, 2017, 11:50am Top

>166 lorax: I don't remember perfectly what's in all the defaults, but I know there's not a lot of variation between them, and there's definitely no attempt to show off the full potential of the catalogue view.

170lorax
Aug 3, 2017, 12:43pm Top

>169 _Zoe_:

I checked my catalog in incognito mode to find out.

A: Cover picture, title, author, date, tags, rating, entry date.
B: Cover picture, title, tags, review, comments. (Not an error: there really is no author for this one.)
C: Title, author, publication, LC classification, comments.
D: Author, cover picture, author, title, date, tags, rating, Google Books, swap. (Not an error: author really does appear twice, first-last and last-first.)
E: Title, tags, LC classification, subject, ISBN. (Again, no author.)

Swapping out LC for Dewey in one of the two that include it would fix the immediate problem, but overall the defaults are pretty terrible. Notably, none include Collections, probably because they haven't been touched since before Collections were introduced in 2009. The Google Books column appears to be blank; it's not sortable, but I spot-checked a few pages and it was always empty.

171_Zoe_
Aug 3, 2017, 12:48pm Top

>170 lorax: Thank you for checking that! So much room for improvement there.

172lorax
Aug 3, 2017, 12:50pm Top

And for comparison, here's what I use:

A: Cover picture, title, author, more authors, summary, tags, subjects, series, awards and honors, source, from where, collections
B: Cover picture, title, author, more authors, tags, number of tags, comments, entry date, collections, rating, average rating, media, call number
C: Cover picture, title, author, more authors, tags, LC, Dewey, original language, OPD, rating, collections (This is the one I have as my preferred style).
D: Cover, author, title, tags, ISBN, orginal language, languages, publication date, entry date, lending, collections
E: Title, author, publication, pages, dimensions, source, height, weight, thickness, copies, entry date, collections

173jjwilson61
Aug 3, 2017, 1:58pm Top

>170 lorax: B: Cover picture, title, tags, review, comments. (Not an error: there really is no author for this one.)

That's not necessarily a problem. Since this is your own library the title is probably all that is needed to uniquely identify the book and in the rare occasions where you have two books with the same title the cover will like be enough to disambiguate them.

174lorax
Aug 3, 2017, 2:29pm Top

>173 jjwilson61:

I did not say it was a problem. I wanted to clarify that that is indeed the full and complete list of fields, so that nobody thinks the lack of author is my omission rather than LT's decision.

175Lyndatrue
Aug 24, 2017, 8:32pm Top

I'll be danged. I have been using the tool recommended, and was amazed to see that it only offered the LC classification, and no DDC. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

http://classify.oclc.org/classify2/

Book in question: http://www.librarything.com/work/19521966/143656296

The LCC is PS648.P6 (subject headings are equally split between United States, Trump, and Politics). Yep, not a mention of SF, which actually makes sense. Any suggestions on the Dewey number here? It's fiction, certainly, although I'd not call it Science Fiction, myself. No DDC is okay with me, but if there's a sensible suggestion, I'll put it in for my copy. There's currently six copies here on LT, and I'm betting there won't be many more, but you never know.

176casvelyn
Edited: Aug 25, 2017, 7:42am Top

>175 Lyndatrue: I'd guess it should go under 813.6 (21st century American fiction) unless the anthology is 21st century, but the stories are all older.

ETA: Alternatively, 808.83876 is Science fiction anthology by more than one author.

177Lyndatrue
Aug 25, 2017, 12:31pm Top

>176 casvelyn: Thank you fvery much or the suggestions. Although the book is very earnest in its efforts, I'd have a hard time labeling it science fiction, and am grateful to use the more generic tag you provided. Now I can give it away, with a clear conscience, and think no more about it.

178Faranae
Aug 31, 2017, 11:12am Top

I'd be more interested in a feature that showed me the Library of Congress stats, since DDS is subjective and I don't use it. It doesn't handle a polyglot's multilingual library very well, since most people and libraries would class my non-English books in the catch-all "foreign language" category, while for me the language would be better as a right-hand number piece of information (which is not how DDS does things at all). Also, many of my books don't have a DDS or *are* rare enough on LT that no one has added one of their own, which may or may not be accurate. But some of those still have an LCC (and most have an ISBN, but that gives no cataloging information). So it's a nifty idea, but is only really suited to mostly monolingual* Anglophone libraries. :(

*Just to be doubly clear, I mean that the library is mostly monolingual, not that Anglophones are mostly monolingual.

179prosfilaes
Sep 1, 2017, 4:21pm Top

>178 Faranae: DDS is subjective and I don't use it

It's a way to categorize books. It is of course subjective, like all such attempts.

most people and libraries would class my non-English books in the catch-all "foreign language" category, while for me the language would be better as a right-hand number piece of information (which is not how DDS does things at all).

I don't understand; the language of the book is simply not an element in DDS. (Original language of fiction is, in both DDS and LCC.) I've got nine books out of 4,000 that have a non-numeric entry in the DDS; you have zero, so any such catch-all foreign language category is not much of a factor. Also, books without LCC are more common in your library than books without DDS; use a format that shows you both and look through them.

Which is not to say you can't feel this desire, but your reasons don't seem to back it up.

180peddler410
Edited: Sep 6, 2017, 10:30am Top

This message has been deleted by its author.

Group: New features

44,782 messages

This group does not accept members.

About

This topic is not marked as primarily about any work, author or other topic.

About | Contact | Privacy/Terms | Help/FAQs | Blog | Store | APIs | TinyCat | Legacy Libraries | Early Reviewers | Common Knowledge | 126,423,445 books! | Top bar: Always visible