This topic is currently marked as "dormant"—the last message is more than 90 days old. You can revive it by posting a reply.
1barney67
The biggest objection I hear to Trump is that he isn't nice. He's mean, uncaring, unsympathetic, racist, and fascist.
Maybe you haven't considered that niceness has nothing to do with being president. Would you seriously suggest to me that Hillary Clinton is nice? Democrats who have worked with her don't think so. Bill doesn't think so. Obama doesn't think so. Is Obama nice? He's a cold fish whose allegiance is to people over ideas. He still thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, despite his many failures.
Maybe you haven't considered that presidents adopt a persona, like everyone else who works in a workplace. Maybe you think presidents are one hundred percent honest when they talk to the press and the TV cameras. If so, I have a post-flood car you might be interested in.
I don't know what kind of fairy-tale, Harry Potter-world these Democrats inhabit. There's nothing about niceness in the Constitution. Do you have any idea what groups like ISIS do? See Wikipedia. Do you know the terrible things that go on everywhere every day? You think niceness is going to solve those problems? Do you know what kind of people cause these problems? They are not nice. Obama tried being nice to them. As soon as he left the room, they broke out laughing, and the world advanced against the U.S. thanks to his idealistic stupidity, and people died in the tens of thousands.
In this context, do you really want to criticize the president for not being critical enough of a small group of racist yahoos in West Virginia? Where are your priorities? I'm talking about adult problems, not which kid in the class is a meanie.
Maybe you haven't considered that niceness has nothing to do with being president. Would you seriously suggest to me that Hillary Clinton is nice? Democrats who have worked with her don't think so. Bill doesn't think so. Obama doesn't think so. Is Obama nice? He's a cold fish whose allegiance is to people over ideas. He still thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, despite his many failures.
Maybe you haven't considered that presidents adopt a persona, like everyone else who works in a workplace. Maybe you think presidents are one hundred percent honest when they talk to the press and the TV cameras. If so, I have a post-flood car you might be interested in.
I don't know what kind of fairy-tale, Harry Potter-world these Democrats inhabit. There's nothing about niceness in the Constitution. Do you have any idea what groups like ISIS do? See Wikipedia. Do you know the terrible things that go on everywhere every day? You think niceness is going to solve those problems? Do you know what kind of people cause these problems? They are not nice. Obama tried being nice to them. As soon as he left the room, they broke out laughing, and the world advanced against the U.S. thanks to his idealistic stupidity, and people died in the tens of thousands.
In this context, do you really want to criticize the president for not being critical enough of a small group of racist yahoos in West Virginia? Where are your priorities? I'm talking about adult problems, not which kid in the class is a meanie.
2barney67
Here's why Democrats and liberals should like and support Trump.
For decades we've been hearing from both sides that we need an outsider to solve problems in Washington. We've been asked to accept independent counsels, nonpartisan think-tanks, term limits, and a quack like Ross Perot. But nothing changed.
Democrats should like Trump because he's not a conservative. He's been a Republican for thirty seconds. He was a Democrat. He supported the Clintons. At one time he was pro-choice. He was against the Iraq War. He's against free trade. He's against losing jobs to Mexico or other countries. He's against insurance companies.
He's an individualist who goes his own way. He believes in free speech and speaking his mind. As a kid, he could be a troublemaker, so his parents sent him to military school. But he didn't serve. The New York City wealthy didn't care for him or his vulgarity. He never fit in with them. They thought he was nouveau riche. He's not really an Ivy League guy. He went to a Catholic college, Fordham, then transferred to Penn. He sold real estate. He doesn't profess strong allegiance to a church, nor does he claim to be morally perfect. He's OK with promiscuity, pornography, gambling, and divorce. He's not a hypocrite. He admits to being flawed.
He is neither a lawyer nor a politician. He funded his own campaign. He hasn't been bought off. He seems to have no inside allegiances or special interests. He keeps wanting to change things and shake things up. He's almost a revolutionary. He's the most anti-establishment president we've ever had. Hippies should love this guy.
And yet, for all these points, Democrats and liberals act like he is the anti-Christ and the end of the world is coming any day now.
Now you see one of many reasons I could never vote for a party as stupid and fraudulent as the Democrats.
For decades we've been hearing from both sides that we need an outsider to solve problems in Washington. We've been asked to accept independent counsels, nonpartisan think-tanks, term limits, and a quack like Ross Perot. But nothing changed.
Democrats should like Trump because he's not a conservative. He's been a Republican for thirty seconds. He was a Democrat. He supported the Clintons. At one time he was pro-choice. He was against the Iraq War. He's against free trade. He's against losing jobs to Mexico or other countries. He's against insurance companies.
He's an individualist who goes his own way. He believes in free speech and speaking his mind. As a kid, he could be a troublemaker, so his parents sent him to military school. But he didn't serve. The New York City wealthy didn't care for him or his vulgarity. He never fit in with them. They thought he was nouveau riche. He's not really an Ivy League guy. He went to a Catholic college, Fordham, then transferred to Penn. He sold real estate. He doesn't profess strong allegiance to a church, nor does he claim to be morally perfect. He's OK with promiscuity, pornography, gambling, and divorce. He's not a hypocrite. He admits to being flawed.
He is neither a lawyer nor a politician. He funded his own campaign. He hasn't been bought off. He seems to have no inside allegiances or special interests. He keeps wanting to change things and shake things up. He's almost a revolutionary. He's the most anti-establishment president we've ever had. Hippies should love this guy.
And yet, for all these points, Democrats and liberals act like he is the anti-Christ and the end of the world is coming any day now.
Now you see one of many reasons I could never vote for a party as stupid and fraudulent as the Democrats.
3theoria
Interesting, considering you started a thread entitled Republicans Against Trump http://www.librarything.com/topic/228873
Another thread you started: Trump: Is it all an act? https://www.librarything.com/topic/235046
There, you asked "Does Trump have some other agenda? Is he purporsely trying to lose? What is he gaining? Who gains if he loses?
Is this whole campaign an act with some ulterior motive or hidden agenda?"
When did you become a committed Trumpista and why?
Another thread you started: Trump: Is it all an act? https://www.librarything.com/topic/235046
There, you asked "Does Trump have some other agenda? Is he purporsely trying to lose? What is he gaining? Who gains if he loses?
Is this whole campaign an act with some ulterior motive or hidden agenda?"
When did you become a committed Trumpista and why?
4barney67
I wouldn't say I'm a big fan. Did I say that? No. But I don't hate him. As in the campaign, the issues rarely enter the conversation. I'm analyzing the conversation.
I said two things. One, that Democrats dislike Trump because they think he isn't nice enough, and two, that Democrats ought to like him.
None of us really know the guy. Know any big businessmen? Much of the time they are poker-faced. Many of them treat life as a poker game. They're numbers guys. Economics is math. Wall Street is full of guys with math degrees. They're the guys you see at casinos who think have a system for winning.
If what you mean is whether I've changed my views, yes, some of them have changed, but not to the extent that I'm a fan of Trump. But I think his presidency has been unpredictable and therefore interesting and admirable in its boldness. The responses he seems to provoke are interesting. It's given me a lot to think about. He has already accomplished things that have surprised me. It's a surprising presidency. I never know what's going to happen. It's good that Washington is getting shaken up. There are a lot of people in DC there who want nothing at all to change. They only talk about it.
My own views have never been mainstream, and I don't expect any president to make my life better. I don't vote with religious expectations. I did have to conclude that America isn't a conservative country and probably never was. The movement I believed in, started by R. Kirk, is dead.
I said two things. One, that Democrats dislike Trump because they think he isn't nice enough, and two, that Democrats ought to like him.
None of us really know the guy. Know any big businessmen? Much of the time they are poker-faced. Many of them treat life as a poker game. They're numbers guys. Economics is math. Wall Street is full of guys with math degrees. They're the guys you see at casinos who think have a system for winning.
If what you mean is whether I've changed my views, yes, some of them have changed, but not to the extent that I'm a fan of Trump. But I think his presidency has been unpredictable and therefore interesting and admirable in its boldness. The responses he seems to provoke are interesting. It's given me a lot to think about. He has already accomplished things that have surprised me. It's a surprising presidency. I never know what's going to happen. It's good that Washington is getting shaken up. There are a lot of people in DC there who want nothing at all to change. They only talk about it.
My own views have never been mainstream, and I don't expect any president to make my life better. I don't vote with religious expectations. I did have to conclude that America isn't a conservative country and probably never was. The movement I believed in, started by R. Kirk, is dead.
5barney67
I still believe that Trump may be acting. I mentioned above about presidents adopting a persona. I mentioned the poker face. Do you consider these criticisms? I think they are observations. To me it's funny if he says things just to shock people and distract the press. It works. He's very much a New York guy, not a Washington guy or a California guy or a Seattle guy. Businessmen calculate.
Trump understands TV, understands the populace. He even likes pro-wrestling, and I hate that crap. People like TV. I don't, but most do. TV wants conflict. The press wants conflict because it feeds ratings. He's far more clever than the press is giving him credit for. While they experience paroxysms of outrage, he must be laughing his ass off.
Trump understands TV, understands the populace. He even likes pro-wrestling, and I hate that crap. People like TV. I don't, but most do. TV wants conflict. The press wants conflict because it feeds ratings. He's far more clever than the press is giving him credit for. While they experience paroxysms of outrage, he must be laughing his ass off.
6John5918
>1 barney67: The biggest objection I hear to Trump is that he isn't nice. He's mean, uncaring, unsympathetic, racist, and fascist. Maybe you haven't considered that niceness has nothing to do with being president.
Being mean, uncaring and unsympathetic isn't nice, but as you say, that has nothing to do with being president. Being racist and fascist is not about being nice, it's to do with suitability to govern a constitutional democracy and protect the human rights of all its citizens.
Being mean, uncaring and unsympathetic isn't nice, but as you say, that has nothing to do with being president. Being racist and fascist is not about being nice, it's to do with suitability to govern a constitutional democracy and protect the human rights of all its citizens.
7lriley
Barney--I think that even you might even be more qualified for POTUS than he is. He's stupid and narcissistic. He doesn't know issues and doesn't do any homework at all on them. He's a serial liar and a sexual predator. He has no problem with Klanners or Neo-nazi's.
8proximity1
>4 barney67:
" Know any big businessmen?"
Do you?
I think we're justified in generalizing --provided that we take a reasonably significant sample for a basis of generalization. So, yes, at a certain level, we can generalize to some extent about "big businessmen" but as soon as one gets to the level of individuals with whom he is familiar, all the generalizations are lost in particularities. Trump, Warren Buffet, George Soros--there are three "big businessmen" and only on very broad overarching aspects--e.g. they all prefer to gain money rather than to lose it on investments--are these men quite similar.
Which big businessmen of renown do you know?
" Know any big businessmen?"
Do you?
I think we're justified in generalizing --provided that we take a reasonably significant sample for a basis of generalization. So, yes, at a certain level, we can generalize to some extent about "big businessmen" but as soon as one gets to the level of individuals with whom he is familiar, all the generalizations are lost in particularities. Trump, Warren Buffet, George Soros--there are three "big businessmen" and only on very broad overarching aspects--e.g. they all prefer to gain money rather than to lose it on investments--are these men quite similar.
Which big businessmen of renown do you know?
9barney67
>7 lriley: Everything you said is wrong, and so obviously wrong, but I know you want to believe it for your own reasons.
10John5918
>9 barney67:
Narcissistic - seems pretty likely (not "obviously wrong").
Doesn't know issues - he's made some classic blunders concerning "issues" and indeed general knowledge.
Serial liar - well, I know that's not uncommon amongst politicians (witness the Brexit campaign in UK, for example) but he's certainly been caught out telling a good few porkies.
Sexual predator - he has admitted as much on video.
No problem with Klanners or Neo-nazi's (sic) - he certainly doesn't seem to have spoken out strongly against these forms of bigotry when opportunities to show leadership and do so have arisen.
So while the issues >7 lriley: mentions could be discussed in a constructive manner, could be nuanced, could be tossed backwards and forwards, might even be arguable, they are not "obviously wrong".
Narcissistic - seems pretty likely (not "obviously wrong").
Doesn't know issues - he's made some classic blunders concerning "issues" and indeed general knowledge.
Serial liar - well, I know that's not uncommon amongst politicians (witness the Brexit campaign in UK, for example) but he's certainly been caught out telling a good few porkies.
Sexual predator - he has admitted as much on video.
No problem with Klanners or Neo-nazi's (sic) - he certainly doesn't seem to have spoken out strongly against these forms of bigotry when opportunities to show leadership and do so have arisen.
So while the issues >7 lriley: mentions could be discussed in a constructive manner, could be nuanced, could be tossed backwards and forwards, might even be arguable, they are not "obviously wrong".
11lriley
#9--aren't you the one decrying those who believe what they're saying instead of just opinionating like yourself? Think about it Barnard. But yes I think that even you might be better equipped to handle the POTUS job than our current occupant of the White House. Why don't you like that part of #7?
#10--sometimes I'd rather leave constructive conversations for others--and I'm not sure they're possible with Barney anyway. Just saying. I would also say though that Trump does lie a lot more than your average politician and he fans the flames needlessly and uselessly on so many issues that should be non-issues such as his ongoing football thing and the recent La David Johnson debacle. Anyone with a clue of any kind at all would back off a grieving widow whose husband he put in the line of fire and not double and triple down on his own idiocy. But Trump is a moron plain and simple--so he turns it into another one of his shit shows. The orange headed POTUS = Fuckhead.
#10--sometimes I'd rather leave constructive conversations for others--and I'm not sure they're possible with Barney anyway. Just saying. I would also say though that Trump does lie a lot more than your average politician and he fans the flames needlessly and uselessly on so many issues that should be non-issues such as his ongoing football thing and the recent La David Johnson debacle. Anyone with a clue of any kind at all would back off a grieving widow whose husband he put in the line of fire and not double and triple down on his own idiocy. But Trump is a moron plain and simple--so he turns it into another one of his shit shows. The orange headed POTUS = Fuckhead.
12John5918
>11 lriley: sometimes I'd rather leave constructive conversations for others--and I'm not sure they're possible with Barney anyway
Fair comment. Sometimes I just can't help myself clinging to the hope that it may just be possible to have a constructive conversation. Hopelessly naive, incurably optimistic, out of touch... I plead guilty!
Fair comment. Sometimes I just can't help myself clinging to the hope that it may just be possible to have a constructive conversation. Hopelessly naive, incurably optimistic, out of touch... I plead guilty!
13barney67 
This message has been flagged by multiple users and is no longer displayed (show)
>11 lriley: You're a real asshole, you know that? Not only can I be reasonable, I'm far more knowledgeable about politics and most things than you are. You're so stupid, you don't even know you're stupid. You and large marge refuse to listen to anyone. Ask yourself if that's how an adult should go through life, not listening to anyone because you think you're always right. Now who is the narcissist?
14barney67
>12 John5918: " Hopelessly naive, incurably optimistic, out of touch... I plead guilty!"
I'm glad to see you admit it. What I don't like is that you have no desire to change or improve. You're too easy on yourself. You should expect more. An adult man ought not to be naive and optimistic and out of touch. Nor are those characteristics to be proud of.
I'm glad to see you admit it. What I don't like is that you have no desire to change or improve. You're too easy on yourself. You should expect more. An adult man ought not to be naive and optimistic and out of touch. Nor are those characteristics to be proud of.
15lriley
#13--such language Barney. I didn't know you had it in you.
I wish people would take the flags down though--I'm not a flag waver.
I wish people would take the flags down though--I'm not a flag waver.
16proximity1
>15 lriley: "I'm not a flag waver."
Good for you.
OTOH, they're so fitting here (that is, at this site) where the ruling ethos is the basically empty virtue-signalling that is so dear to a certain kind of shallow liberal's view of fighting the good (cost-free, gluen-free, sugar-free) fight. Viz: " 'I flag, therefore I feel (morally) better'--Heck, I even feel morally superior. And I did use 'heck'. Not 'not the 'H'-word.' ('H---')"
________________
>13 barney67: "I'm far more knowledgeable about politics and most things than you are."
Who's more knowledgeable?
"What Voters Know about Campaign 2012* / Pew Research News IQ Quiz"
"Before you read the report, test your own News IQ by taking the interactive ( "What Voters Know about Campaign 2012 Pew Research / News IQ Quiz") knowledge quiz ."
No fair cheating!, now.
_________________
* NOTICE: Questions currently on the Quiz reflect Current facts-- not the facts as they were in 2012.
_________________________
My quiz result:
"You answered 9 of 10 questions correctly.
You scored better than 81% of the public, below 10% of the public and the same as 9%."
Good for you.
OTOH, they're so fitting here (that is, at this site) where the ruling ethos is the basically empty virtue-signalling that is so dear to a certain kind of shallow liberal's view of fighting the good (cost-free, gluen-free, sugar-free) fight. Viz: " 'I flag, therefore I feel (morally) better'--Heck, I even feel morally superior. And I did use 'heck'. Not 'not the 'H'-word.' ('H---')"
________________
>13 barney67: "I'm far more knowledgeable about politics and most things than you are."
Who's more knowledgeable?
"What Voters Know about Campaign 2012* / Pew Research News IQ Quiz"
"Before you read the report, test your own News IQ by taking the interactive ( "What Voters Know about Campaign 2012 Pew Research / News IQ Quiz") knowledge quiz ."
No fair cheating!, now.
_________________
* NOTICE: Questions currently on the Quiz reflect Current facts-- not the facts as they were in 2012.
_________________________
My quiz result:
"You answered 9 of 10 questions correctly.
You scored better than 81% of the public, below 10% of the public and the same as 9%."
17lriley
#16--I don't mind Barney calling me names. After all I've been giving him a lot of crap and for a long time but it's because his posts here are not only wrong on most things but full of all kinds of complacencies and unsupportable assumptions. You might say I've been targeting him but I don't do it to be a bully--so yeah his standing his ground sometimes and taking a few swipes back at me is okay....and the truth is yeah I am kind of an asshole or even an entire one--at least when I want to be. And I can be wrong? sure I can but my truths are my truths and nobody is going to change them without a hell of a lot of convincing. I like Rick's description of himself as a social anarchist and an economic socialist. I kind of feel that way too. Maybe when Corbyn becomes PM I'll move to England. There's hope with him.
18barney67
The News IQ Quiz
You answered 10 of 10 questions correctly.ou scored better than 90% of the public and the same as 10%
You answered 10 of 10 questions correctly.ou scored better than 90% of the public and the same as 10%
19RickHarsch
>18 barney67: I got 14 out of 10 without even taking the quiz. I scored better than anyone on the planet.
20proximity1
>19 RickHarsch:
Laughing (a bit).
"You unlock this door with the key of imagination"...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxf_Dvy0VLs
21barney67
Kevin Dowd
NOV. 23, 2017
Full disclosure: I am not a Trump disciple. His manners offend me and the tweeting is overdone, but I do admire his resiliency against an unrelenting and unfair press. His tweeting is annoying, but it can be an effective defense. He has 43.2 million Twitter followers. The New York Times has 3.1 million subscribers.
Trump delivered on his promises to shake things up with a slew of executive orders undoing much of Barack Obama’s burdensome regulations and, more important, started to reshape the lower courts decimated by Obama’s appointments. The nomination of Judge Gorsuch to the Supreme Court may be his most lasting legacy.
Trump’s presidency is unorthodox, but his blustering against Kim Jong-un is the only way to deal with a bully.
Democrats say Obamacare needs only a tweak. My youngest son just received his bill for health care. It came with an annual premium of $8,100. At that price, I think he will continue to vote Republican.
The dam has broken on sexual harassment and worse. It has already claimed Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey and Charlie Rose and threatens to make a ghost town of Hollywood and the Capitol. It has also brought back Bill Clinton for an unwanted encore of his colorful past.
Trump’s daily activity: I do not follow every move he makes. I counsel my Democratic friends to do the same, but they cannot help themselves.
Trump’s minor battles: The N.F.L. players were disrespecting the American flag and were not called out by their gutless commissioner in a timely fashion. LaVar Ball is a publicity whore who cannot grasp that his son (and meal ticket) would have gone to jail without the president’s intervention.
Trump’s interaction with dictators: If President Obama had done it, he would have been given the Nobel Peace Prize. (That already happened?)
Robert Mueller’s investigation: So far, no direct connection with Trump himself on the Russia collusion. But it did find collusion with Hillary and the D.N.C. on the dossier. Luckily, she has several donors on Mueller’s staff ready to offer legal advice.
NOV. 23, 2017
Full disclosure: I am not a Trump disciple. His manners offend me and the tweeting is overdone, but I do admire his resiliency against an unrelenting and unfair press. His tweeting is annoying, but it can be an effective defense. He has 43.2 million Twitter followers. The New York Times has 3.1 million subscribers.
Trump delivered on his promises to shake things up with a slew of executive orders undoing much of Barack Obama’s burdensome regulations and, more important, started to reshape the lower courts decimated by Obama’s appointments. The nomination of Judge Gorsuch to the Supreme Court may be his most lasting legacy.
Trump’s presidency is unorthodox, but his blustering against Kim Jong-un is the only way to deal with a bully.
Democrats say Obamacare needs only a tweak. My youngest son just received his bill for health care. It came with an annual premium of $8,100. At that price, I think he will continue to vote Republican.
The dam has broken on sexual harassment and worse. It has already claimed Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey and Charlie Rose and threatens to make a ghost town of Hollywood and the Capitol. It has also brought back Bill Clinton for an unwanted encore of his colorful past.
Trump’s daily activity: I do not follow every move he makes. I counsel my Democratic friends to do the same, but they cannot help themselves.
Trump’s minor battles: The N.F.L. players were disrespecting the American flag and were not called out by their gutless commissioner in a timely fashion. LaVar Ball is a publicity whore who cannot grasp that his son (and meal ticket) would have gone to jail without the president’s intervention.
Trump’s interaction with dictators: If President Obama had done it, he would have been given the Nobel Peace Prize. (That already happened?)
Robert Mueller’s investigation: So far, no direct connection with Trump himself on the Russia collusion. But it did find collusion with Hillary and the D.N.C. on the dossier. Luckily, she has several donors on Mueller’s staff ready to offer legal advice.
22John5918
>21 barney67: but his blustering against Kim Jong-un is the only way to deal with a bully
Bluster is a postive thing? Good grief.
And no, blustering is not the only way to deal with a political and diplomatic problem. In fact it's one of the worst ways, especially if one suspects that the opponent is a little unstable. Kim Jong-un is probably telling his own people that blustering is the only way to deal with a bully.
The dam has broken on sexual harassment and worse
Although the flood waters have apparently not yet engulfed Trump who is on public record as admitting having sexually assaulted women (I presume grabbing a woman by the pussy is not dismissed as one of those marginal cases invented by feminists, even in right wing circles?)
N.F.L. players were disrespecting the American flag
Barney, as a non-US citizen I struggle to understand this one. Isn't one of the values that the US flag is supposed to stand for the right to freedom of speech and expression? Aren't these chaps exercising that right? One may disagree wiith the issue they are espousing, but the vilification strikes me as being very un-American (I say that with deep irony). And it's not as if they are partying away while the anthem is being played - in most societies bending the knee is considered to be as respectful as standing with one's hand on one's chest. We Catholics call it genuflection, and when a lady meets the Queen she tends to curtsey.
Bluster is a postive thing? Good grief.
And no, blustering is not the only way to deal with a political and diplomatic problem. In fact it's one of the worst ways, especially if one suspects that the opponent is a little unstable. Kim Jong-un is probably telling his own people that blustering is the only way to deal with a bully.
The dam has broken on sexual harassment and worse
Although the flood waters have apparently not yet engulfed Trump who is on public record as admitting having sexually assaulted women (I presume grabbing a woman by the pussy is not dismissed as one of those marginal cases invented by feminists, even in right wing circles?)
N.F.L. players were disrespecting the American flag
Barney, as a non-US citizen I struggle to understand this one. Isn't one of the values that the US flag is supposed to stand for the right to freedom of speech and expression? Aren't these chaps exercising that right? One may disagree wiith the issue they are espousing, but the vilification strikes me as being very un-American (I say that with deep irony). And it's not as if they are partying away while the anthem is being played - in most societies bending the knee is considered to be as respectful as standing with one's hand on one's chest. We Catholics call it genuflection, and when a lady meets the Queen she tends to curtsey.
23krolik
>23 krolik:
It might be worth mentioning that you've pasted Kevin Dowd and that your text is a truncated version. Unmarked cuts include:
"But the Republicans do have a problem. They are in total control and have not passed any major legislation."
It might be worth mentioning that you've pasted Kevin Dowd and that your text is a truncated version. Unmarked cuts include:
"But the Republicans do have a problem. They are in total control and have not passed any major legislation."
