Please provide lists and have them translated in full--now

The former text snippet :

LibraryThing is hot, with over 88,000 members adding 6.2 million books.

has been superseded by

LibraryThing is hot, with over 88,000 members adding <SUB1> million books.

and

6.3

now.

It is adding something to the LT usability (and usability management), though not that much.

At present, Zeitgeist indicates :

Vital StatisticsMembers 90,050
Books cataloged 6,341,107

Numbers variables are to be substituted--all of them--AND LT 'd better keep a list of translations of the latter at hands, i.e. have them beforehand--now--in a matter they are and will be available on stock when they are needed, without any further delay.

I think it is no use to have translated "88,000" (nl: "88.000") now--or having to wait for its translation from now on-- and to have to wait for the appearance of "90,000" (nl: "90.000") to make and have translations of the latter possible. And the same with "93,000" and "95,000" and "123,000" and so on.

LT is in need for the systematical translations of some exhaustive lists, listing i.a. the days of the week (7); the month's names (12); numbers 0-99+, decimals as e.g. "6.3" (nl: "6,3"), etc. (*)

This is not the first time this need is mentioned over here, but until now, it has not resulted in a solution.

Once again, I think this is not toys, but tools.

(*) LT might learn--and take into account--that in many languages, "8,686" does NOT mean eight thousand and some, but rather eight and six hundred and some thousandths.
Thus, at i.a. Zeitgeist pages too, LT 'd better have the numbers correct--i.e. using the correct decimal mark, too.

(Edited to correct some typo.)

You're right about the numbers. I'll get to work on them. We did it fairly rapidly and mechanically. And when the pages were first made, the numbers didn't change them over :)

The number FORMATTING isssue is a more interesting one. Do you know, off the top of your head, what European languages DON'T use commas and periods the reverse of how English does?

The Zeitgest, as I've said, it not internationalized yet, and won't be until it changes how it works. (The Z takes literally 30 minutes to generate, so we can't be generating it for a dozen languages; it needs to save the results not as text, but as data which can be translated.)

Do you know, off the top of your head, what European languages DON'T use commas and periods the reverse of how English does?

There's always Wikipedia.

>2 timspalding:

1. substituting numbers

No problem. The remark is heard now, you are working on it and we 'll have some patience. Please don't take it too long. =)

Please remember the lists, too. They might provide for a major benefit, don't you think? Yours and ours--LT's, that is.

2. Number formatting

I don't. Of the top of my head, English is the only language I know that is using the English/American number formatting system.

Though, the answer to your question cannot be that difficult, I think. I mean, translators will know what number formatting system is used in their language, won't they? Thus, some samples--even one single sample in that language, e.g. "6,3"--might will do to provide you the full answer concerning that language. You might know Albion is cherishing some particularities indeed.

3. Zeitgeist

Though the calculating of Zeitgeist is taking half an hour of number crunching, its formatting for different languages needn't be that difficult, I think.

Proper names musn't be translated, thus you can keep those. Column titles etc. are just plain text strings as with any other page. They consist no problems (cf. other translations).

The number formatting needn't be that difficult, neither, I think. The latter is (a rather trivial) presentation, i.e. visualisation issue only. No power number crunching is necessary for that. One only has to tell the computers what sign is wanted and to be shown as a decimal mark. Final. (*)

(*) Even if the numbers are saved as text--I don't know if that is the matter--a quick and easy search and replace might do.

I know you 'd rather want LT's "foreign" language versions not the show the American book titles only--and right you are. But I think the latter--though it 'd better be solved, too--is another matter, needing Z "changes how it works". The former can be dealt with by some easy and quick fixes. Then again, those minor changes might gain a rather huge visualisation impact, though.

>3 MMcM:

MMcM : Thanks.

Formatting numbers in German for example could be tricky. In Switzerland we write 90'000,00 and I know I've seen a different format in Germany, but I can't remember what it was. And I really don't know how the Austrians do it. So while we do speak the same language (more or less...) there are differences. I personally don't really care how the numbers are displayed, I just wanted to point that out.

>2 timspalding:

And could you please--please--do something about text snippets containing html markup tags such as with :

You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i> and <a>.

and :

Keep markup You will encounter some simple HTML markup (eg., <b>, <u>, and <i>) in the text to be translated. Please retain these tags in the translation, and make sure to preserve their relationship with the text.

Please--please--substitute the html tags out, for it is no fun to have to correct those over and over and over and over again and again and again and again...

... until everyone gives up.

Supersede those text snippets by :

You can use some HTML tags, such as <SUB1>, <SUB2> and <SUB3>.

and :

Keep markup You will encounter some simple HTML markup (eg., <SUB1>, <SUB2>, and <SUB3>) in the text to be translated. Please retain these tags in the translation, and make sure to preserve their relationship with the text.

And do this ASAP now. Please?

All continental european Languages use the comma as divider of decimals: 2.1 (en) = 2,1 (continental european).
We do differ in the way we separate the thousands, as Thalia pointed out. In Germany, we use the point: ten thousand = 10.000,00. Whether I see a point or an apostrophe as a divider doesn't matter. Seeing a *comma* as a thousands divider always causes a double take, though.

Can someone explain to me what problem is happening with the HTML markup? I can't see what the problem is. Clearly I'm missing something. Is it just how it displays on the /translations.php page?

Working on the comma issue.

No, the HTML markup vanishes each time you *edit* a translation page. Even if you write it as "&....;", the next time someone edits the translation page, poof, it's gone in the resulting display page.

So,
"You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i> and <a>."
comes out as:
"Du kannst einige HTML-Tags verwenden, wie , und ." (as can be seen on my german-language profile).

Okay, I got it. Thanks. It's a little tricky, so I just dodged the issue and did , etc.

I found three examples:

(on the profile page)
"You can use some HTML tags..."

(on the translation guidelines pages)
"Respect placeholders You will encounter..."
"Keep markup You will encounter some..."

T

>9 timspalding:

See i.a. Message 7, too.

When entering a translation edit page containing text snippets with html tags in them, as i.a. :

You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i> and <a>.

LT automagically has them as :

You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i> and <a>.

Nothing wrong with that, so it seems, except for when saving such translation edit page--even without having edited anything or after having edited some other text snippet (but not the one containing the html tags)--LT automagically "interpretes" the html tags as real html tags, i.e. they are no longer tags, but are markup instead, giving e.g. :

You can use some HTML tags, such as , and .

You see what this is leading too? The tags aren't closed, thus everything that is follows is enclosed within the unclosed tags.

(closing tags now) (tags closed)

This, translators have to pay attention they change

You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i> and <a>.

into

You can use some HTML tags, such as &lt;b&gt;, &lt;i&gt; and &lt;a&gt;.

each and every time again and again and again and over and over again.

Whenever translators enter an edit page, they have to search it for edit boxes containing html tags and have those corrected first. For if they don't, what will happen is what you saw and see above (before I reclosed the tags).

This is no fun.

You can see this effect for yourself. Go to whatever language translation edit page containing one of those--the translation edit page of the user profile page will do "fine", for it is containing i.a. the text snippet :
You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i> and <a>.
Being at that translation edit page, don't touch nor edit anything. Just save the page (using the Save button) and check what a mess you have been creating. (*) By, well, by saving an edit page without having edited nothing at all

(*) You can check this at the (foreign language) page that just has been "edited" by yours and/or at the each and every translations overview page.

Please go back now and clean up the mess you (**) have created. (***)

(**) You, because no one else has been touching the translation, thus it must be you, though you didn't really change anything, did you? Tip : you did, for you dared to save a translation edit page without having found and "corrected" each and every html tag in its edit boxes; worse : you didn't change anything at all--for the good, that is.

(***) i.e. go back to the translation edit page you just saved and correct :

You can use some HTML tags, such as <b>, <i> and <a>.

into :

You can use some HTML tags, such as &lt;b&gt;, &lt;i&gt; and &lt;a&gt;.

and save.

Remember : You should do this each and every time again and again and again and over and over again. Until, finally, you too will give up. In the mean time, you too might try and ask Tim c.s. to do something about this, i.e. you start sending out messages as i.a. Message 7. You should do this each and every time again and again and again and over and over again. Until, finally, you too will give up. Oops! We 've got that already, haven't we?

Boek: I'm sorry you took so long writing that. Unless I'm wrong, I fixed it while you were writing the message. Let me know what you think.

I also added a page for "odds and ends," including the decimal issue (which I will have to consult before changing). I'll post about it in a sec.

>7 boekerij: & >12 boekerij:

I hadn't seen Messages 8 et seq. when I sent out Message 12. It is no use to put some addendum in Message 12, for the latter is rather heavy on html tags--and the same phenomenon as described is counting when trying to edit messages, too. Thus, sorry if Message 12 was outdated yet at the very moment it appeared. Then again, this feature had been asked about--and weened about--before. Over and over again.

<bonus>
Over and over again.
Some readers might remember and recognise the story of the buffalo's at "Saïdja en Adinda" ("Saïdja and Adinda") from the Max Havelaar by Multatuli.
</bonus>

Odds and Ends

Though we have got (some of the) lists now, some remarks about remaining oddities

1. Typo

Please correct the English spelling of "Wednesday".

2. Date reversion

Having dates as e.g. "okt 13" looks, well, odd.

AFAIK, the date reversion--MMM DD--is (almost) US only. Most other languages, even English (UK) are using (some kind of) DD MMM notation.

Thus e.g. :
Dutch : "13 okt"
French : "le 13 oct"
German : "13. okt" (mit Punkt!)
...

Therefore, it might be a good idea to have some date examples translated, too.

3. Numbers

Though today LT is having six-and-then-some million books catalogued, the latter number might increase.

Therefore, it might be a good idea to have some numbers translated, too--in text, that is--, ranging from e.g. zero to twenty, or rather and better zero to one hundred (step one)--and then some, to catch the system--continuing to one thousand (step one hundred)--and then some, to catch the system--continuing to then thousand (step one thousand), adding one million. For a start, that is.

This way, LT will have this numbers at hands, without any delay, whenever they are wanted or needed.

Have this list (and its translations) made now, for it is now translating LT is hot.

4. Days of the week (etc.) and using capitals (or not?)

Though in English, i.a. days of the week (Mondag, Tuesday,...) always take a capital, the latter is not the case in all languages.

Therefore, LT should learn and know whether translations's capitals are either of the type "always needs an initial capital" or rather of the type "Begin phrase capital".

I don't know yet of a good method to propose the latter to our translators, for of course, with e.g. English language days of the week, you cannot see the difference.

5. Other?

LT is rather well known for having troubles with numbers.

Thus e.g. at the Add books page, the embedded Recently added page recently optained some "x other members" feature.

The problem with the latter is that e.g. "1 other members" in reality means and is to be read as : "0 other members", i.e. : "you (present user) are the only one we know of that is having this book"

Simple (provisional?) though efficient solution : bar "other" (and put the final "s" between brackets), thus giving : "1 member(s)"

That 'll do. For now.

Thanks. Changed by doing a -1.

AFAIK, 15.2, 15.3 and 15.4 have not been addressed yet.

The message might have been too long for Americans to keep attentive.

Let's try it another way, tackling the problems one by one.

For a start : what about 15.2--i.e. date reversion ?

(to be continued)

>The message might have been too long for Americans to keep attentive.

>Let's try it another way, tackling the problems one by one.

You first? You get more flies with honey than vinegar. Or in simpler language, there is no need to be so bloody rude.

>18 Morphidae:

Thanks for your comment.

What is considered as being bloody rude might be cultural matter. Methinks. YMMV, that is.

Then again, I look forward to your advice on how to have the questions and proposals as mentioned above read, addressed--and solved.

It seems as if the former kind asking and proposing (Message 15, months ago) was no good way, either.