The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - SF Television... and forget the Good

At the suggestion of jargoneer, a thread devoted to SF on the small screen.

The first thing to remember about television sf is that you can never go back.

I had fond memories of Buck Rogers in the 25th Century, from when I used to watch it back in the early 1980s. Wilma Deering! Princess Ardala! Women in spandex! Recently, I bought the first season on DVD cheap on eBay, and sat watched them...

Dear god. I watched that? Stock footage used over and over again. Stupid plots. Naff music. An actor who is quite clearly neither as charismatic or as fit as the hero he protrays...

Never mind, I thought. There were other tv sf series broadcast during my formative years. Surely they can't be as bad? Again, from eBay, cheap, I bought the first series of Blake's 7.

Oh dear. Not quite as bad, it has to be said. British tv programmes tend to look cheap, whereas US ones exude cheapness in other areas. But even so, Blake's 7 doesn't stack up all that well against other tv dramas.

The Irwin Allen shows are ultimately pretty bad -Lost and Space, The Time Tunnel, Land of the Giants, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea. In terms of design they could be interesting. The John Williams themes were always good. I confess though, on a nostalgia level I'd still look at all of them.

I grew up in the 60s and remember watching all of
those tv shows. I already own the first two seasons
of LOST IN SPACE on DVD. I think some of these
shows have stood the test of time and still look
as good to watch as they did when they originally
aired way back when. I also used to watch Buck
Rogers In The 25th Century too. You forgot to mention
twiki the cute little robot. There was the Wilfred Hyde-White character and the little robot you used to wear
around your neck.

Librarianwannabe

People go on and on about what a "classic" Star Trek was.

But how many episodes actually pass any kind of means test for excellence? Ellison's "City of the Edge of Forever" is pretty darn good and "Trouble With Tribbles" is amusing (in spots); Sturgeon's "Amok Time", Richard Matheson's "Wolf in the Fold"...of the 79 episodes of the original series, how many pass for good television and how much of it now seem like camp, viewed for a few laughs or nostalgia purposes...

"Buck Rogers in the 25th Century"? It was Erin Gray's bottom I remember the most. That was a Glen Larsen production wasn't it? The man who took up Irwin Allen's mantle of awfulness. I'm sure we'll be hearing about ol' Irwin in future posts...

They say the golden age of science fiction is thirteen. Which may be why most tv sf programmes appeared to have been designed for an audience composed entirely of thirteen-year-old boys.

Now they appear to be designed for an audience of sixteen-year-olds. So that's not bad. They've grown up three years in four decades...

Ian: Why, at that rate, I'll have a decent SF show to watch...when I'm around 85. Was your post supposed to be reassuring?

The absolute nadir of Trek, as far as this writer is concerned, is the very last episode broadcast, "Turnabout Intruder". An old flame/rival switches bodies with Kirk and takes command of the Enterprise. Shatner's performance as a woman masquerading as a man may go down as one of the worst ever (in a long career of bad acting gigs). The best, absolutely most priceless moment is when he's sitting in the command chair, buffing and polishing his nails. Just THINKING about it sets me off. Dreadful!

I wonder how Gil Gerard would have fared with that scene...

I wonder... the Battlestar Galactica relaunch is pretty good TV right now (I've only seen about half of the first season, so if it is horrible now I don't know).

In twenty years are we going to look back and say 'Sweet Jesus, but that show sucked.'

I remembered V being a pretty good miniseries followed by a pretty bad sequel miniseries followed by a terrible show.

Well, like Ian, I eBayed a DVD of the miniseries on the cheap and watched it again. I realized that the only good part of V was the first episode of the first miniseries. After that it devolved pretty quickly to crap. It's too bad they didn't either stretch out that first episode or run with the original idea Kenneth Johnson had which was a fascist takeover of the U.S., no aliens involved.

I have to admit that the current version of Battlestar Galactica isn't bad. I've only seen the first seasons, and I thought the second was much worse than the first. Whole they kept the series story-arc, they also started inventing background on the instant in order to tell the story of the week.

Only vaguely interested in this new incarnation of "Galactica".

You know my feelings toward sharecropped stuff & sequel-mania.

I suppose if I could rent the first few episodes that would tell the tale.

My wife and kids liked this "Lost Room" series they rented this past week. I was upstairs editing so missed it but they found it quite good, intriguing premise.

Haven't seen most of the new SF TV stuff--no cable so it goes right past me. What's that series...hmm....it's got a number in it. "The 3700" or something? About abductees returning to earth?

Most of my comments will be confined to older stuff. Dying to hear everyone's thoughts re: "gems" like "Space: 1999" et all...

I never caught Space: 1999 when it was on. I remember loving those Cerry Anderson supermarionation movies that would occasionally be broadcast on local TV, but was never able to catch an actual series. Some time soon I need to Netflix his stuff.

To the post about Star Trek earlier. You have to remember what the quality of other sci-fi was at the time. Sure, there was The Outer Limits, but other than that, Star Trek was light years ahead of crap like The Time Tunnel. Maybe not every ep was a classic, but they sure tried. I'm not a Trekkie/er myself, but I can understand why that series was so special.

By the way, a love-it-or-hate-it series, but anybody out there watch The Prisoner? For what it was, I love that show, 'Rover' weather balloons and all. I do wish there would have been somebody there keeping an eye on the story arc, but there wasn't and I appreciate what's there. "I am not a number, I am a free man!'

I have an idea that the great unwritten Star Trek story would consist of Kirk being chased across the galaxy by lawyers and social welfare for all the unpaid child support he owed to women of all races/species who he had knocked up while trying so hard to follow the prime directive. (The first amendment to the prime directive must be "if you meet an attractive alien you are entitled to ignore this directive").

The Prisoner - excellent show which is still quite watchable.
Space:1999 - Knew it was terrible at the time, but watched it since nothing else was around. Loved their comminicators with built in TV-cameras and view screens. None of the Treks ever did that.
U.F.O. - Good and bad. Very good article about it on Wikipedia.
Buck Rogers in the 25th Century - Read the coffee table book of the newspaper comic strips from the 30s and 40s. They are much better than this show. Although I think the first season was better than the second one. Princess Ardala's costumes were to die for.
Star Trek - The original series (TOS) still is quite watchable because of the many interesting ideas presented.
The 4400 - I like it but don't like the Billy Connelly character.
Jericho - The first season was good to excellent. I have to see how the current season progresses.
Heroes - Also excellent.

Of the Gerry Anderson marionette shows, I only followed Fireball XL-5. I haven't see any of the shows since 1964 so I cannot comment on how it has stood the test of time

Does anyone remember the limited-animation show Space Angel. I have two VHS tapes with a total of four episodes and still like it.

rgurskey:

That's a good roster for reference purposes.

Have not seen "Space Angel"--I'm sure one of the other chaps will be able to help you out on that one.

"4400"--that was the number!

"UFO" I still have a soft spot for. Someone taped the pilot for me a few years back and I occasionally watch it for fun. Ed Bishop's hair (!) and, as previously mentioned, the moon babes.

I still like "The Prisoner" and believe I have the complete series on VHS (though in very bad shape). And what I love is McGoohan did 17 episodes, finished the story arc and that was it. He didn't milk it forever. The last episode ("dem bones") still makes no sense but who the hell cares?

Jargoneer, your callous attack, impugning the character of a fine Starfleet officer was typically insensitive...and funny.

jseger: my favorite "Space: 1999" episode was from the first season, "Black Hole". Not endorsing the show, mind you, but it appeared during a time when there was little SF on the boob tube. And let us not forget, Brian Johnson and Nick Allder, who did the special fx for "Space: 1999", went on to win an Oscar for "Alien".

Slightly-relevant-anecdote: I wrote to Barry Morse ("Professor Bergman") when I was around 14. I heard he was appearing at the Shaw Festival here in Canada and dropped him a note saying how sorry I was he'd left the series. He sent back a lovely handwritten letter, which I still have, and enclosed an autographed photo. A sweet, decent man, who's worked for more than twenty years to raise funds to assist older actors/actresses who are retired and have no pension to live on.

I've been wondering whether Sapphire and Steel would be worth buying on DVD. Anybody have any opinions on whether it's standing the test of time?

Space: 1999 - loved the Eagle transporters. Never really struck me as tosh, but I was a kid at the tme.

UFO - first production block is excellent drama; second production block is poor. Some great models, though. We won't mention the string vests...

Andromeda - never quite got into this, although it always looked like it might be good.

Farscape - first few episodes were a bit Muppets in Space, but by season two it was excellent sf television.

Babylon 5 - missed these when they were broadcast, and didn't get to see them until 10 years later. Couldn't see what all the fuss was about.

Firefly - I'm one of those people who don't get Joss Whedon. And I used to play sf RPGs many years ago. Firefly was like those games I used to play.

X-Files - a few duff episodes, but was pretty much consistently entertaining, right up to about season seven.

Millennium - was shaping up to be quite a good show.

Quantum Leap - oh boy. I only caught scattered episodes.

Red Dwarf - only seen the first couple of series. Could be funny, from what I remember.

Star Cops - I thought this was pretty good. I'm somewhat afraid to track down a DVD copy and watch it again...

seaQuest DSV - it was bad. Then they changed it. And it was worse.

Stargate SG-1 - 10 seasons! Was it really that good? Every time I caught an episode it seemed just like the last one I'd caught.

Stingray - anything can happen in the next half-hour. But it was always the same thing.

Captain Scarlet - the best of the Anderson puppet shows. Even though it didn't have Marina...

I loved The Tomorrow People in the 1970s - some good, thought-provoking stories and some really terrible ones but I loved it anyway. I think it was the ideas behind it I related to - having special gifts, saving the world, using brain to solve problems instead of brawn. However, even the good episodes were seriously let down by special effects and costumes that make early Doctor Who look good, and the acting was... well, not always the best.

Nice roster, Ian. And once again reaffirming your puppet perversion.

How about "Space, Above & Beyond"--saw one episode, did nothing for me. From some of the people who worked on "The X Files".

Irwin Allen:

"Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea"
"Time Tunnel"
"Land of the Giants"

Hated, HATED "Lost in Space" (except for Jonathan Harris)

"The Invaders" with Roy Thinnes (wanna see an episode of two of that one)

"But how many episodes actually pass any kind of means test for excellence? Ellison's "City of the Edge of Forever" is pretty darn good and "Trouble With Tribbles" is amusing (in spots); Sturgeon's "Amok Time", Richard Matheson's "Wolf in the Fold"...of the 79 episodes of the original series, how many pass for good television and how much of it now seem like camp, viewed for a few laughs or nostalgia purposes..."

The original Star Trek is the first non anthology adult SF show on TV where you actually get stories that sound like real SF that you could have read. It's an original.

I happen to think the show is a television classic still,warts and all, but the eps I listed here are excellent representatives of what SF is all about to me. Any of these episodes would have been fine as SF short fiction:

Where No Man Has Gone Before
Charlie X
What Are Little Girls Made Of?
The Corbomite Maneuver
Balance of Terror
Who Mourns for Adonais?
Requiem for Methuselah
Return of the Archons
Space Seed

"Captain Scarlet - the best of the Anderson puppet shows. Even though it didn't have Marina..."

But it did have Destiny Angel. ;) I agree -the best of the Anderson puppet productions. If you really look at it, UFO is really just a reworking of the same concept.

Firefly seems to lose something when it crosses the Atlantic. I've seen a lot of Brits talking about what a POS it is when I don't think it's anything like. I regard it as much of a "one off" as Farscape.

Space 1999 is a dumb stiff. Never got into that show. The one Anderson show I think is total poop, and I even get a kick out of Space Precinct.

Space:Above and Beyond is an excellent show. Had a number of highly memorable eps. The one true earnest mil SF show on TV.

"Farscape - first few episodes were a bit Muppets in Space, but by season two it was excellent sf television."

Agree absolutely. A one of kind TV product by the second season.

"X-Files - a few duff episodes, but was pretty much consistently entertaining, right up to about season seven."

Some of the standalone eps are amazing, daring television. The running stories are ultimately an enormous ripoff.

I'm a huge fan of Millenium although I regard that as a horror paranormal show. Morgan and Wong are the guys you're thinking of.

Two shows that are actually very interesting SF TV:
Pretender and Dark Angel. Both kind of fizzled as they went on. Dark Angel did actually complete the first continuity pretty much, before it took the toilet ride.

Arthur, I watch "Star Trek" purely for nostalgia. Have a creeping respect for one or two of the movies, "Wrath of Khan" especially, but most of the episodes you list are just fun to watch if I need to unwind after a long day beating my brains out at the keyboard.

"Charlie X" is kind of an in-joke around the house. I'll give THE LOOK and tell my family "Don't LAUGH at me". It's worth a chuckle or two.

Better than other shows at the time, undoubtedly. But, then, the competition wasn't exactly fierce, was it?

>18 iansales:

"Space £19.99p" as Bob Shaw dubbed it - it's showing on one of the UK digital channels right now. Nice tech, some of the stupidest stories I've ever seen (from episode 1 onwards).
"Andromeda" - nice starship, shame the AI's avatar always reminded me of that woman who used to advertise AOL, could never tell one episode from another, but at least the Nietzschians read Nietzsche!
"B5" - a favourite of mine, still. It had structure, it had OK plot most of the time, there was little bad science in it, it was pretty good Golden Age SF, and Harlan Ellison advised on it. Only problem was that you had to watch it from the beginnng; by the time you got half-way through the third season, if you came to the show fresh you wouldn't have the faintest chance of working out what was going on. When it was first broadcast in the UK, a mate started watching from about the end of the second season. I loaned him tapes and tested him on them, because the show was pretty good at undermining your expectations, especially in the early stages.
"sea Quest DSV" - or Deeply Stupid Vessel. 'Nuff said.
"Stargate SG-1" I liked. OK, most alien worlds looked exactly like Canada - strange, that. But it didn't take itself too seriously, which was a Good Thing. And the central conceit of the show is a humdinger. It could also crop up with surprisingly sound sf concepts from time to time.
Stingray - the title sequence was the best thing about it. I still feel physically exhausted just watching it. (And no, I'm not THAT much out of shape.) Shame the rest of the show didn't live up to the titles' promise.
Trek - I, too, sneered at original Trek. Then along came Next Generation, with a captain who behaved LIKE a captain (and who could act). Once they stopped re-hashing 'classic' Trek scripts and doing holodeck episodes, things picked up. I also liked the way they rolled the 'super-powerful alien who holds the Enterprise crew to account for all humanity's foibles and errors' character into one character, who one could then easily avoid. Later Trek incarnations had their moments, but they don't really do it for me.
New Galactica is OK, but for all that's said in its favour, B5 was there first.
I always credit 'Third Rock from the Sun' with engaging Bill Shatner to play a character called The Big Giant Head, a role he was born to play. Surely he guessed?
'The Prisoner' - NOW we're talking! Best episode for me was 'Hammer into Anvil', where No.6 turns the tables on his captors and engineers the mental disintegration of No.2.

Oh, and sometimes I read books, too...

"Charlie X" is kind of an in-joke around the house. I'll give THE LOOK and tell my family "Don't LAUGH at me". It's worth a chuckle or two.

Yeah, I've done the same with pals growing up. But I still think it's a great ep.

I gots to keep in mind you think most Golden Age SF is trite crap anyway. ;) Star Trek feeds primarily off of that. And television wasn't ready for anything else.

>21 arthurfrayn: Arthur; the big question that was asked about 'Space precinct' was "If they spent £35 million on it, why doesn't it look any better than 'Thunderbirds' did 25 years ago?" The first episode had a reasonably sf-nal moment, where an alien witness under protection on his way to court had to save the day by plucking a bomb off the front of the aircar with his sticky extensible tongue; that was about as good as it got.

Space Precinct is what it is. I had fun with it and didn't take it too seriously. I didn't know it was supposed to have a high budget, so I guess that goes along with what you're saying. ;)
It was on at like 4:00 in the morning here in the States. Flew way, way below the radar. I discovered it by accident and that might account for some of my affection for it.

I do like the Patrol cruiser design - I bought one. ;)

"'The Prisoner' - NOW we're talking!"
I was thinking the other day -is there anyone who doesn't like The Prisoner? Maybe that's the one show everyone can agree on...

Cliff,

what I love is McGoohan did 17 episodes, finished the story arc and that was it. He didn't milk it forever. The last episode ("dem bones") still makes no sense but who the hell cares? McGoohan actually only wanted the series to run for 7 episodes. The network pushed him to film 17 as that was equal to half a season and could be rerun. There's actually a list somewhere of the 'essential' 7 episodes and the ones that were filler. (Also, I always loved that he played the warden in Escape from Alcatraz. Somebody in casting was a genius!)

Max Headroom was pretty damn good TV sci-fi and Amanda Pays is as yummy as Erin Gray. Wish they'd release it on DVD. My bootlegs suck.

"Max Headroom was pretty damn good TV sci-fi and Amanda Pays is as yummy as Erin Gray. Wish they'd release it on DVD. My bootlegs suck."

That show really falls apart as it goes on though. It becomes clear they have no overview of the world society they're depicting...
Standalone eps are great my fav would probably be "Deities", where Edison Carter's ex college girl friend is the head of a New Religion. And I like "Whackets" with Bill Maher. The Whackets TV show is so incredibly stupid...Max getting mega addicted to the show is hilarious.

Ah yes, Space: Above & Beyond. I picked this up on DVD since I'd never seen it before. It was... well, the background didn't add up, the Silicates (sic) were dumb and looked crap, and every episode was "writer's moral of the week". They even had one episode that depended on the cast hearing an alien fighter go past their shuttle as they floated in space!

Arthur - I've not heard many Brits slagging off Firefly. I thought it had fandoms on both sides of the Atlantic.

The Angels, of course... How could I forget them?

"Arthur - I've not heard many Brits slagging off Firefly. I thought it had fandoms on both sides of the Atlantic."

This might be a personal experience -I've just encountered a number of people posting "only an American could like sh*t like this"

"...and every episode was "writer's moral of the week"."

I don't know if that's how I'd put it. Each show did have a deliberate theme,but not always what I would call a moral .That's not unusual in military fiction in general. That might be a reason why you don't like the show that you're not interested in a mil SF show. It's the reason why it tanked - a lot of people weren't interested.

McGoohan was also very good in David Cronenberg's "Scanners".

I get the feeling that the guy would likely be a difficult sumbitch to work with. Not one to suffer fools.

I didn't think much of the "Firefly" movie ("Serenity"). Mildly diverting, not much more. I know Joss Whedon wrote "Alien IV (Resurrection)" so I'll cut him some slack for that. BUT he also writes comic books which takes his aesthetic credibility down about a thousand notches in my book.

Never saw a single episode of "Max Headroom" or "V" or "Space Precinct" so I'll beg off.

Arthur: my wife has to be restrained when she sees the mini-skirts from the original "Trek". She rounds on me and wonders why I can watch crap that treats women like bimbos. I hate to tell her, "that's about 99% of SF, honey..."

Oh man, remember in the first season of Next Generation when they would occasionally have some poor guy in the background wearing a skirt?! I mean, good for them championing whatever sort of equality that was supposed to be, but why not just not have anyone in skirts?

For the unbeliever:

Now I'm wondering if I should use that as my profile pic. I love the sort of confused look the guy has.

There's the difference between a US actor and a UK actor... a US actor would be thinking, "What the hell am I doing?" A British actor would be thinking, "At least I'm getting paid for this crap." (Just Like Alec Guinness in Star Wars.)

Arthur - I don't have a problem with "moral of the week"... except when the writers twist and bend the story's background and premise in order to set up the situation for the moral. SA&B did that far too often for my liking. I also found the concept of a squad of officers who a) flew space fighters, b) fought as ground troops, and c) were sent on occasional special forces missions, a little hard to credit.

Captain Scarlet - the problem with this series was that he couldn't die: once you've ruled out the threat of the hero dying what's the point? (Is Captain Jack from Torchwood based on him? They have the same wooden acting style).
Has anyone seen the new Captain Scarlet computer animated series?

The Gerry Anderson productions must have been one of the first to really maximise their commercial potential through books, comics, music, and, especially, toys. I think I had toys from at least 4 of the shows: Thunderbirds, UFO, Captain Scarlet, Space 1999 - you just couldn't avoid them at one point.

"The Away Team Problem" - forget the yeoman/extra dying, what bugs me about these teams is that all the senior officers always go: they have hundreds of crew members and only the senior officers go! There is no way that any of the senior officers would endanger their lives by going on non-diplomatic away missions.

>17 RoboSchro: - I have Sapphire and Steel on dvd: the production values look very cheap now and a couple of the stories are a bit blah but some of the others are still quite good. It is fairly unique - I can't imagine any major tv organisation making and showing a series like this in prime time again.

Firefly is in the good old tradition of Star Trek and much pulp fiction by being a western in space!

Let's get down to the classics here - LEXX - what the hell was this show about?

" I also found the concept of a squad of officers who a) flew space fighters, b) fought as ground troops, and c) were sent on occasional special forces missions, a little hard to credit."

"The Away Team Problem" - forget the yeoman/extra dying, what bugs me about these teams is that all the senior officers always go: they have hundreds of crew members and only the senior officers go! There is no way that any of the senior officers would endanger their lives by going on non-diplomatic away missions. "

Forget it guys. They're never going to do otherwise concerning this, and the reasons are obvious. It's always show about a group of maybe 6 people -tops. Don't hold your breath for a show about a crew of several hundred people in which you actually feature all the people beyond lip service. Not going to happen. Get over this one.

I never caught on to "Next Generation" or any of the other Trek spin-offs at all. And I'm not expecting to like the new JJ Abrams take on "Trek" either. As reported previously, one of the co-writers is the person responsible (?) for the script for "Transformers: The Movie". As Eric Idle would retort: "Say no MORE!"

With "Next Generation", I just couldn't get over the stupidity of having children and spouses aboard a ship of the line. The ridiculous subplots involving the romantic lives of the individual cast members--especially O'Brien, the transporter chief. Even after the Federation supposedly went on war footing against the Borg, they didn't turf out the families. Never cared much for Riker or the empath either (though Mirina Sirtis was darn cute). Data bored me and I kept hoping they would kill off the kid (Crusher) in a spectacularly gory fashion. Hell, come to think of it, Patrick Stewart was the ONLY one I liked.

Saw about four episodes of "Voyager" and one of "Enterprise" and, man, that was enough for me.

I think the "Away Team" was a method of dealing with complaints leveled against the early "Trek" that the Federation would never allow a Captain to risk himself on a tricky mission and so there would be a special team assembled for such things, under a lower-ranking officer.

This is the most I've talked about "Trek" in years. I might be guilty of that "eternal 14-year old" mentality I criticized on a different thread...

OK, I cant' talk about much of the stuff listed in this thread, because I only have "free TV" and some of it never made the airwaves here. But my favourite of the last 10 years or so, besides parts of the newer ST series (except ENT) was "Earth 2" of 1994. It actually had an ongoing plot and a realist view of what colonising an other planet might be like. A pity it never went beyond episode 22 (and we only got 12 shown here!). I am still hoping. Especially because I was terminally stupid and overwrote the VHS containing the series (it's not available on DVD...).

Message #38

I think we have the same cable TV plan--as in none. I get CBC and the reception is pretty good and CTV, which comes in better under certain atmospheric conditions (or if a comet happens to be passing by).

Can't help you with "Earth 2" at all. Wasn't it originally a Roddenberry concept?

My VHS tapes are all wearing out--some of them nearing 20 years old. Some of the stuff I can let go but a few items can't be found anywhere. Julie Taymor's adaptation of the Poe story "Hop Frog" for instance. Never been in circulation, as far as I know. Tried to find it for my wife (she's a huge Taymor fan) but it's a no go. So our crappy version stays, for as long as it lasts...

"But my favourite of the last 10 years or so, besides parts of the newer ST series (except ENT) was "Earth 2" of 1994."

I liked Earth 2 as well. ;) It is available Stateside on DVD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_2_%28TV_series%29

Can't say anything good about ENT, I'm afraid that's anathema as far as I'm concerned as well. Apparently the franchise, with the people creatively in charge, reached the exhaustion point.

"My VHS tapes are all wearing out--some of them nearing 20 years old. Some of the stuff I can let go but a few items can't be found anywhere. Julie Taymor's adaptation of the Poe story "Hop Frog" for instance. Never been in circulation, as far as I know. Tried to find it for my wife (she's a huge Taymor fan) but it's a no go. So our crappy version stays, for as long as it lasts."

"Fool's Fire." That hasn't even been on a sell -through VHS release as far as I know.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0210047/

You should get a DVD burner for all that stuff and transfer it. ;)

"I'm surprised that people here are not bigger fans of Firefly. I find it to be almost without flaw, and it would be my pick for best science fiction show--yes, I'll say "ever.""

Things are a little ferocious here at times. ;) I'd be inclined to agree with your assessment. I certainly think Serenity is the best TV Show to Big Screen adaptation ever.

Spock's Brain is the official Plan 9 entry of the series. "Brain and brain-" is classic. And I share your view that "Turnabout Intruder" while it might be camp in the truest sense of the word, is an awful lot of fun.

I like "The Demon With the Glass Hand" a lot, but I'd put "The Architects of Fear" up there with that one. There's something inherently disturbing in that one that just doesn't go away.

Oakespalding:

Actually my "dem bones" reference was related to the song that cropped up in that episode...the finale was utterly CRAZED.

Arthur: right after my post I went looking for "Fool's Fire" and actually found a copy on DVD. Snapped it up for my wife's birthday--she'll be blown away.

Do you really think things get "ferocious" here? I realize you followed that up with an emoticon but, really, I'm quite amazed at how mannered and funny everyone on this and the "SF films" thread have been. No putdowns, just differing opinions as to picks and pans.

More TV sci fi:

"My Favorite Martian"
"Six Million Dollar Man"
"Bionic Woman"
"Mork & Mindy"
"Incredible Hulk"
"Wonder Woman"
"Greatest American Hero"
"Amazing Stories"
"Ray Bradbury Theater"
"Alien Nation"
"Fantastic Journey"
"The Avengers"/ "The New Avengers"
"The Flash"
"The X Files"
"Dr. Who"
"Science Fiction Theater" (aka "Beyond the Limits")
"Planet of the Apes"
"Logan's Run"
"The Starlost"
"Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles"
"Amazing Spiderman"
"Future Cop"
"Gemini Man"
"The Immortal"
"Man From Atlantis"
"Project UFO"
"Quark"
"Search"
"Tales of the Unexpected"
"Beauty & the Beast"
"Galactica 1980"

* I'm indebted to this website for a number of shows that had completely slipped my mind. Others even more obscure are listed, for you completists out there. Check it out:

http://www.magicdragon.com/UltimateSF/tv-chron.html#TV-1970s

What about TV movies?

"Lathe of Heaven"
"Dune"
"Questor Tapes"
"Genesis II"
"Planet Earth"
"City Beneath the Sea"
"Killdozer"
"UFO Incident"

I think it's really depressing when you make a list of SF films and TV shows and realize how poorly served the genre has been by those mediums. The level of crap is absolutely astonishing...and even the shows we profess to like usually fall into the category of "camp" or "guilty pleasures".

Just a thought...

We have got a Martian week on TV this week (I know Mars is highly visible at the moment, but is there anything else I am missing?). We got a Canadian two-parter "Race to Mars". Straightforward drama, no big bangs, no aliens. I liked it, much more than "Mission to Mars" and maybe as much as "Red Planet" (two big-screen films also shown this week). The astronauts were confronted with realistic problems and figured out realistic solutions.

#39, cliffburns: I've got a satellite dish, so I get lots of free-to-air stuff from all over Europe, but the niche stuff is still on paid-for channels (also via Sat).

#40, arthurfrayn: I'd buy it in a heartbeat, but my current DVD-player is Region 2 as is my computer drive. I will look for a new region-free player some time in the future.

#17

Sapphire And Steel definitely stands the test of time. I have both DVDs and although low budget - a roaming patch of light was the baddie in one of the episodes - the story-telling more than make up for it.

Never even HEARD of "Sapphire & Steel". I shall Google it and see what turns up.

Addendum:

I just did the "Google" thing. In-teresting. And that fact that it was a 1/2 hour series, whereas usually dramas run longer. Good cast and I like that special effects are described as "minimal".

By the way, does "The Mighty Boosh" count as SF? I LOVE that show.

"Do you really think things get "ferocious" here? I realize you followed that up with an emoticon but actually I'm quite amazed at how mannered and funny everyone on this and the "SF films" thread have been. No putdowns, just differing opinions as to picks and pans."

It's really no big deal, hence the emoticon. Actually I get a kick out of being the forgiving one here - I come off sounding like I'd be happy watching HeeHaw. Ironically, amongst friends and acquaintances, I can be regarded as something of a critical pain in the ass.

"I think it's really depressing when you make a list of SF films and TV shows and realize how poorly served the genre has been by those mediums. The level of crap is absolutely astonishing..."

This is what I'm talking about -is this really true? I'm really not sure anymore as I get older. Aren't there just as many crappy movies made about just about anything? And isn't it ultimately "same as it ever was"?

I meant the shows and movies in toto.

Very few film-makers (big or small screen) have captured the wonder inherent in the genre and this holds true regardless of the age they worked in. The early stuff was dopey/funny. The new stuff is dopey/over-earnest...and 3/4 CGI.

I wonder how many of the people making SF movies/TV actually have any grounding in the genre or just a basic understanding of the tropes and just wing it from there.

>2 iansales: The first thing to remember about television sf is that you can never go back.

I couldn't agree more. Every time I watch one of those Twilight Zone marathon, the shine comes off another couple of episodes I had fond memories of.

I don't know what to make of the new Battlestar Galatica. Sometimes it's very good, other times it's very corny. Generally, it's a well executed production so even the groan inducing cliches are watchable.

As for a few short lived ones I didn't see mentioned, I've only seen a couple episodes of Odyssey Five but it seemed promising. I also really liked the first, and only, season of ABC's Invasion from a couple of years ago. It started out slow, but by the last few episodes I was definitely hooked.

So far the thread hasn't focused much on sf tv comedy -- although mention was made of My Favorite Martian, where the alien (played by Ray Walston) was called "Uncle Martin". Martin/Martian -- get it? Oh God, that's so funny.

And how about It's About Time, where two astronauts break the "time barrier' and find themselves back in the stone age. They make friends with a neanderthal couple named Gronk (Joe E. Ross, of "Car 54" fame) and Shagg (Imogene Coca). After the first episode, the producers changed the latter's name to Shadd. Apparently, Shagg had some unexpected and unwanted connotations.

WARNING: The following theme song is guaranteed to bore into your brain, never to be excised.

It's About Time TV series open

Mork and Mindy anyone?



Also, is Mr. Ed sf? Bewitched? At the time, there would have been no doubt of a negative answer. But today, with all the genre bending, I'm not so sure.

And don't forget ALF. At least the central character had one interesting quirk: he hated (and ate?) cats...

Actually the Alf cartoon- Alf Tales (as opposed to the sitcom) was surprisingly well written, funny, often satiric, and had more of the trappings and trimmings of SF as it takes place on the planet Melmac.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094413/

And it had a great theme song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFtgQLKZXxE&feature=related

Arthur: You're writing after coming home from the pub again, aren't you? We've warned you about that...

That was a good one, I kid you not. If you like cartoons.

I do and I'd give it a look...if I could find it in small city, no cable, western Canada.

Have some consideration for us folks out here in the boonies.

(Boo hoo)

I'm in the same boat as you are about this one. It's not available anywhere. I don't know if was even shown in syndication past it's intitial broadcast.

I feel your pain.

Draw yourself a pint and find yourself an episode of "Black Books" or "Mighty Boosh". It'll smarten you right up.

Hey you listed "The Immortal" I forgot about that one. Melvin Douglas chasing after Christopher George for his immortal blood. Kind of a Fugitive thing...

Never saw it, just part of a roster of names on that site I mentioned. I remember both actors, of course. George was a mainstay on TV movies and B and C flicks in late Sixties and Seventies but I have no idea what happened to him. One of those "where are they now" stories. Melvin Douglas was around forever, still putting in good performances right up to "Being There" with Peter Sellers.

My curiosity got the better of me. Checked Wikipedia and here's how C. George ended up (rather sad):

"Soon after completing 'Mortuary', George died unexpectedly of a heart attack on November 28, 1983 at the age of 54. A contributing factor in his death is believed to have been a 1967 mishap suffered on the set of The Rat Patrol when his jeep flipped over and pinned him beneath the vehicle. The accident gave Christopher a cardiac contusion. His death devastated wife Lynda, and afterwards she only worked sporadically in television guest roles until her retirement in the early 1990s. He is interred in the Westwood Village Memorial Park Cemetery in Los Angeles.1415

George's niece is Wheel of Fortune hostess Vanna White.16"

I liked The Rat Patrol as a kid.

Nobody mentioned The Invaders yet? Or "Dark Skies"? Both series in the classic paranoia/conspiracy theory arena - at times it seems that Americans prefer to believe the conspiracy rather than the official version. Thank God it's not like that in the UK or we would believe that the Duke of Edinburgh killed Diana: which he did but we are all frightened to admit to in case we also meet with an "accident".

Does The Champions count as sf? Does anyone else think the colour photography of these shows is slightly bizarre? They all look like glossy magazines.

I mentioned "The Invaders" though I've so far struck out in my efforts as seeing so much as a single episode. I like Roy Thinnes.

I've heard, vaguely, of "Dark Skies" but not "The Champions".

Man, I'm out of touch...

There are a number of vids at youTube for The Champions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AccLo_yQgFg&feature=related

Alexandra Bastedo is beeyootifullll...;)

The thing about "The Invaders" -- the aliens all have a giveaway physical deformity: a crooked pinkie. Yet it always takes Roy (or David, to stay with the character's name) 50 minutes of screen time to notice that the person he's been bonding with for the entire episode has a crooked pinkie!

Currently watching the DVDs of The Prisoner. I was expecting to cringe, but it's actually very watchable. Only got through four episodes so far, though.

B5 was fabulous. I caught a very early episode on TV which I thought was pants, but watched it again the following week, and the next week, and then again, and I was totally hooked. Best show ever.

Even better than Firefly. Loved that and it was criminal that it got canned.

Lexx and Farscape fill my DVD shelves, but surprisingly I never managed to watch every episode. I don't really know why (especially with the beautiful babes on Lexx). Hard to say whether they jumped the Quark, or if it was just me.

Just bought Season 7 of Stargate. Another great show, but (as has been mentioned) there are only so many camera angles for filming Canada.

Also just bought the Captain Scarlet and Thunderbirds DVDs. I don't remember Four Feather Falls or Supercar, but Thunderbirds and Jonny Quest shaped my childhood. Those and Bleep and Booster. (And The Clangers, of course.) In another thread that asked where the interest in Science Fiction started, I just thought about the books that might have taken me down that path, but really, it was Thunderbirds.

Since this is a thread for bad sci-fi TV, I have to mention two '80's 'gems': Automan and Misfits of Science. I only vaguely remember that Automan had a car that looked like it came straight outta Tron. Misfits of Science, I remember nothing except the title. (If I were allowed to stretch this to fantasy stuff, I would say honorable mention should also go to the series with the best name ever: Manimal.)

Can I say that I like seeing stuff that is terrible described as 'pants'? We should start using that expression on this side of the pond.

Oh and how about the stuff Sid and Marty Krofft put out? It wasn't all sci-fi, but oh man, some of the stuff that was! Jim Nabors and Ruth Buzzi as robots on The Lost Saucer? Or what about Dr. Shrinker or The Far Out Space Nuts? Man those were bad!

But I will go to the mat defending Land of the Lost.

Automan was classic. The car, incidentally, was a Lamborghini Countach.

I've never heard of The Far Out Space Nuts. Mind you, the US has always been better for crap television than the UK has.

>18 iansales:

I LOVED Star Cops (theme music written by Moody Blues' Justin Hayward). Too bad there were only nine episodes (canceled during a BBC strike). Saw them all several times on my PBS station that showed a LOT of BBC SF.

Why we loved B5? Let me count the ways...if you attended Loscon (SF convention in the Los Angeles area) any time before or during the release of B5, there was JMS (producer, writer, ghod of Babylon) with Harlan Ellison showing clips, introducing actors, and generally getting everyone excited about the show. Secondly, I never liked Star Trek, in any incarnation. B5 seemed much more realistic in how space may be explored -- painfully, with lying aliens, drug running, big dangerous mysteries, and people dying. Star Trek was too antiseptic. I agree that you have to start at the beginning and you can pretty much skip Season Five, since JMS was forced by the network to wrap the story up in Season Four, then given an extension after all the mysteries had been solved.

I get bored, I admit, by serial series where if you pop in and out you lose the thread. I don't have TIME to follow a program so faithfully. I saw about one episode of "Lost" and it utterly failed to interest me.

Far better, I think, to have stand alone episodes--though I realize that serial shows can attract a rabid corps of followers.

There used to be people I knew who got together one night a week to watch "Seinfeld". A whole group of them sitting around the living room, watching the latest episode, laughing, talking about it afterward. Never got into it myself--again, time constraints and I simply don't plan my life around, yes, A TV SHOW. I understand there are similar groups for some of the reality TV shows, "American Idol", etc.

Not on for me--I suppose if I wanted to, I could rent an entire season of some show and watch it at my leisure over the course of a week. Maybe at some point I will. When I have the time...

Heh. I took a gander at "24" (season one DVD) and was hooked --saw it all in the course of a week or so (*rubs quadrangle eyes*). If it is well done, the format is much more rewarding than stand-alone episodes, because you get much more character development (and some action too).

I once watched seven seasons of The X-Files one after the other. I borrowed them from a friend, and watched two or three episodes a night.

I was paranoid for about three months afterwards...

Ian,

I can pretty much guarantee that #70 was the one and only time the three words "Automan was classic" will appear together like that. I could just imagine Glen A. Larson pitching the show "Tron meets Desi Arnaz, Jr. and they fight crime, how could you go wrong?"

I just looked up the Wikipedia entry for the show. Check out these episode titles: "Staying Alive While Running a High Flashdance Fever", "Flashes and Ashes" and "Murder MTV". Man, how did that show fail? (I'll be honest. Looking at those titles has made me wish that the Sci-Fi Channel would rerun this show.)

They repeated Automan on one of the UK cable channels - what can I say? There were moments in that series when my jaw literally dropped - especially the episode when Automan has to go clubbing: looking at the jumper style he pioneered it's obvious that the makers of Basic Instinct were heavily influenced by this episode. Looking at IMDB the series effectively kick-started, and then killed, the careers of both Arnaz, Jr. and Chuck Wagner.

This sounds...frightening.

Glen A. Larsen, Irwin Allen...man, the damage these guys did to impressionable young minds (including mine).

I've seen quite a few sci-fi shows in my time, but it's really hard for me to remember the bad ones because I generally stop watching them very quickly and they get pulled from the air shortly thereafter. What sticks in my mind more is when good shows go bad (like the last two seasons of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Sliders after the first season or two, and the last few seasons of The X-Files when it became increasingly obvious that the mythology couldn't be cohesively ended). I also try not to trash shows too heavily because there's always someone out there that loves them. But here are a few that I definitely saw little in:

Cleopatra 2525 (dear God in heaven...)
Star Trek: Voyager
Star Trek: Enterprise (I watched many episodes of both these ST series, but they were just pale imitations of TOS, TNG, & DS9 and I eventually gave up)
Dark Skies (interesting for the first few episodes, but it kept getting weirder and weirder)
Kindred: The Embraced
Painkiller Jane
Andromeda
John Doe
Tru Calling
The Chronicle
Earth: Final Conflict
Mutant X
Tremors (Why did they make a series?! Or 3 sequels, for that matter?!)

This doesn't even include the lengthy list of sci-fi shows that I find merely adequate, like Eureka, Stargate: SG-1, Stargate: Atlantis, Charmed, Dark Angel, Threshold, etc.

By the way, here's a good list of sci-fi shows:
http://www.tv.com/science-fiction/genre/10/az.html?era=&g=10&tag=genre_t...

My god, Kat, I've never seen 90% of the shows you've cited.

#79:

Hah, there's good reason for it. All of them are fairly recent (I didn't think it was fair to judge shows that aired before I was born) and many had very short runs. Cleopatra 2525 is one of those syndicated shows that appear seemingly randomly on local stations at 3 am on a Sunday. Dark Skies, Kindred, Painkiller Jane, John Doe, The Chronicle, and Tremors all lasted one season or less. Obviously I'm not the only person who thought they were bad! (Although they still made it to TV somehow...)

I thought Tru Calling was ok and improving when it got canned (6 episodes into series 2). Didn't think of it as sf though. But then I thought the last two series of Buffy were ok - they just tried to do something different.

Amazingly, Mutant X got 3 series - could never understand how it avoided Marvel lawyers since it was so obviously an X-Men rip-off.

Cleopatra 2525 was an sf series in the style of Xena - not great but attractive cast.

>78 The_Kat_Cache: - just because lots of people like something that doesn't mean you shouldn't trash it: that's just encouraging people - I mean, look what happened when people didn't trash Harry Potter and James Blunt enough: now we all have to suffer.

"Amazingly, Mutant X got 3 series - could never understand how it avoided Marvel lawyers since it was so obviously an X-Men rip-off."

While unrelated to the comic, Mutant X is a Marvel Studios created property.

>82 arthurfrayn: - ah, now I am enlightened. Perhaps I would have noticed this if I hadn't run screaming from the room when it started. Now I wonder why I just didn't use the remote.

#79

Some more for you then Cliff (you will probably shake your head and say never heard of them as well) although most are fantasy rather than SF.

On the good side - Ace Of Wands and Catweazle. Catweazle was particularly charming - the title character was a mad magician who had transported himself through time to the modern day. It was written by Richard Carpenter who also wrote the magnificent Robin Of Sherwood. Doomwatch and Survivors flesh out this section. Apparently the Beeb will be remaking Survivors this year.

On the OK side - Sky, a story about a young extraterrestrial traveller who sort of gets lost and ends up on Earth. Children of The Stones was slightly better than OK, it was about an astrophysicist and stone-circles.

On the crap side - Star Maidens. Absolutely dire.

On the "even I haven't heard of / can't remember these" side - Timeslip, Robert's Robots (excellent title though), The Changes, and Kinvig. Looking at the broadcast dates I would probably have watched Kinvig so it obviously didn't make much impression on me.

#78:

The problem with shows like Andromeda and Earth: Final Conflict (other than relying upon Roddenberry's name) is that the writers are given an incomplete but in-depth sketch of the mythology, structure, universe, 'sides' and other notes regarding the 'world' they are to flesh out. This sketch becomes the outline for a pilot episode -- and then the show is picked up based upon the strength of this one episode.

What happens after the pilot episode is created however, is that the pilot writers are swapped out for 'weekly' writers (normally -- with a few exceptions), and these writers mostly disregard the back story when creating new episodes (usually somewhere between the first and the tenth episodes). Thus, a series that looks like it could be worthwhile ends up being a steaming pile of incoherent and inconsistent crap.

These are the shows that give me grief. Why?! WHY?!

I can forgive the horror that was watching Cleopatra 2525 simply because the premise of the show could be summed up in a single sentence. Not even the production crew expected it to be anything more than science fiction baywatch. It's so bad, it might be a classic.

Kindred... well, I didn't expect much from a series that was based off an RPG. heh. The pilot was at least semi-bearable, but that went down hill, fast. Crappy weekly writers strike again.

Then of course, there was Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future... if only they would have figured out whether the audience was children or adults.

Oh, and my boyfriend remembered this gem when we were talking about this thread: Birds of Prey. *shudder*

I really think I'm missing a whole lotta fun crap by not getting cable tv. The joy and pleasure a guy could have while enjoying a beverage and an over-sized bowl of popcorn.

Andy, you're quite right, never heard so much as a peep regarding the shows you've described.

I'll say it again--we seem to regard most of the SF series we're describing with something akin to horror...very few seem to possess redeeming qualities. Can't we expect better? I know the proportion of crap to good stuff is universal, regardless of genre but SF should have more going for it. There are unlimited possibilities and plotlines, an infinite number of worlds and characters to explore. The problem is most of the folks who produce the stuff have no background in the genre and so fall back on tried and true formulas, stock situations, one-dimensional characters.

How dare they sell fans short. And how dare fans LET them...

Even when the writers are well-versed (and many, many of them are), the stories suck. It's not because they don't have any background in the genre. It's because that's not what they're paid to write.

I remember a comment from Andromeda, "We had to retool the entire show because it was too brainy -- viewers want ACTION in space!"

The writer's backgrounds are often fully steeped in what they're writing, and many of them have masters degrees with genre-based theses -- but, in order to make money and stay on the writing staff, they have to do what they're told. if they're told to 'dumb it down' ... they'll do so. If the producers want 'desperate housewives -- in space!' ... then that's what they write.

I've known a couple of television writers and they're stuck writing to the statistics, honestly.

The execs all have the opinion, 'scifi doesn't sell' and so the writing of many shows reflect the idea that scifi tv will only sell if it's dumbed down to the point of a regular sitcom / teen-show. (There have been fights against that notion, however...)

"Science fiction doesn't sell..."

And yet when one looks at the top twenty box office movies--oh, never mind, I see your point. Dumb sci fi sells, the cerebral stuff doesn't. And who gives a shit if a film makes the AFI "Top 100" list if it doesn't get some executive bonus points and a retirement home the size of St. Lucia?

But it's telling that so many SF series last a season or less, utterly failing to capture the imagination of viewers. If I series makes it past the second season, it's judged an unqualified success in today's world.

"The execs all have the opinion, 'scifi doesn't sell' and so the writing of many shows reflect the idea that scifi tv will only sell if it's dumbed down to the point of a regular sitcom / teen-show. (There have been fights against that notion, however...)"

"But it's telling that so many SF series last a season or less, utterly failing to capture the imagination of viewers. If a series makes it past the second season, it's judged an unqualified success in today's world."

Have you ever watched a show slip in the ratings, the suits step in and demand retooling, and then the show drops IQ points right before your eyes? It happened to Lois and Clark, and Dark Angel. Always depressing to watch it happen, and it never saves the show.

Actually dramatic entertainment on regular televison might be a shrinking commodity. The reality shows and the American Idol type shows cost so much less to make, and they really do bring in substantial numbers of viewers.

BTW, people should rent and check out the show "Nowhere Man" now that it's out on DVD. A perfect example of a show that was way too smart to succeed. A deliberate modern day take on "The Prisoner". Bruce Greenwood starred.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0112104/

http://www.amazon.com/Nowhere-Man-Complete-Greg-Beeman/dp/B000BC8SXS/ref=sr_1_1?...

I remember loving Land of the Giants as a kid.

Some I haven't seen mentioned yet are

The Quartermass Experiment (and spinoffs)

The Tripods - although I think this doesn't belong in a discussion of bad sci-fi TV

Battle of the Planets

Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

My Hero (not really SF, although it does feature aliens)

Anyone remember The Gemini Man, starring Ben Murphy? He'd press a button on his watch and turn invisible. At least, that's all I can remember about it.

Sassm:

I grew up on "Land of the Giants"--I nailed boards across trees in the backyard, carved buttons onto them to make control panels for the "ship", enlisted my sisters and friends to play the parts of crew members (I was the captain, of course, my resemblance to Gary Conway at nine was quite remarkable, as I recall). My sister Colleen used to insist on playing the dog. Don't tell her I just said that.

Haven't seen "Nowhere Man" (or heard of it), Arthur and, Ian, I vaguely remember "Gemini Man" but it's been ages since I gave that one any thought.

Why aren't you Brits going on and on about the longest running SF series in history? Y'know the one I'm talking about--the guy in the phone booth being chased by over-sized, genocidal garbage bins? C'mon, tell us who the best Doctor was and what a wonderful guy John Pertwee was, etc. etc.

Y'know you want to...

I have mixed feelings about Dr Who. Lots of warm fuzzy nostalgic feelings that I go and destroy by watching the programme again on DVD.

Last year, I watched The Green Death - a Jon Pertwee one - on DVD. It's generally reckoned to be one of the best ones from the 1970s. In it, green gloop from a factory is pumped into an abandoned mine, and causes everything in there to grow to enormous size. At one point, soldeirs from UNIt are under attack by giant maggots, so Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart calls for air support. Sure enough, 5 minsutes later there's a shot of a two-man helicopter, with the words "Twycroft Helicopter Rentals Ltd" on the side, and seated in it, a soldier in uniform, lobbing hand grenades out the door...

No one beats the BBC for cheapness...

I always wanted to see Nowhere Man. Unfortunatley back then I was a lowly teenager working retail. I was scheduled to work every night the show ran.

Without giving anything away, is there any sort of conclusion? I've wondered the same about Dark Skies and American Gothic. These are two shows I've always wanted to see, but didn't want to be stuck with a never-ending cliffhanger.

Battle of the Planets. Try Netflixing Science Ninja Team Gatchaman. This is the original, unedited (read 'more grown up') version of Battle of the Planets. (Of course, a show about a bunch of teens in bird costumes can only be so 'grown up'). It's cheesy, but fun for a disc or two.

Starfleet! (AKA X-Bomber)

Superb, that was. Used to be shown on Central Television every Sunday at noon.

>97 iansales: - and with a great theme tune, later covered by Brian May and Eddie Van Halen, in the guise of "The Starfleet Project".

"Nowhere Man" did not have a conclusion, that I recall.

Has anyone mentioned Eureka? I like it because it doesn't take itself seriously.

I saw a heartburn medicine commerial a couple years ago and couldn't place the pitchman although the voice was familar. I finally realized it was the Automan, but 40 pounds heavier. That was also a fun show.

CliffBurns, we can't go on about Dr Who here. This is a thread for bad TV....

I think the current series is very good, and obviously not cheap. But the cheapness was part of the charm of the old Dr Who episodes - the idea that the stories and acting was enough and that audiences would be able to see past the rubber-glove aliens and rented helicopters.

SOME of it survives rewatching. Some angry-thoughtful Tom Baker episodes spring to mind.

I have some old "Dr. Who" on tape--black and white stuff and it is awful. So I think we can safely talk about it on this thread. The new "Who" has far better production values but I miss the goofiness of the older stuff. Again, that over-earnestness can be off-putting to me. But I'm just an old crab...

#101

Well when you were producing 48 shows a year, with the early 60s technology and method of shooting you are bound to get some crap. Absolutely unavoidable. Some of the early black and white stuff is still very good. The Aztecs is outstanding. Some of the scenes in The Dalek Invasion Of Earth are magnificent, others (like the dropped in filmed sections of magma) don't work, but the story could quite easily be halved in length and we would miss nothing.

Some of the old Dr Who series were awful, but some of them were good drama. Problem was, with each story last between three and six episodes, the bad stories were often drawn out to near unwatchable lengths·

The new series, with one story per episode, has proven more varied. The production values are a great deal better. But there's some right tosh in there as well - and, strangely, most of those episodes, were written by Russell T Davies...

OTOH, you also get episodes like 'Blink', which is probably best piece of TV sf drama I've seen in the last few years. It definitely deserves the Hugo.

I can't believe my luck! I just checked the TV Guide for films to tape, and from tomorrow on there is a re-run of "Earth 2". And it's on the public television channel ARD, 2 episodes per night, which means no adverts and a very high chance of actually getting all 21 episodes in the next 10 weeks! I'll go and dig for a high quality VHS tape and ask a friend to record it on DVD as well :-)

Ah, those fortuitous moments. They make life worth living (sometimes).

I was staying at a hotel about a year or so ago and my wife and I turned on the set and were checking out the directory that lists what shows are currently playing on the 74 different channels...and I gave a jump.

"La Jetee" was starting within the next half hour. And so I finally got a chance to see a flick I've coveted for about twenty years. You'll all likely recall without prompting that it was the inspiration for Terry Gilliam's "Twelve Monkeys". I should have run out and bought a lottery ticket immediately afterward.

Of course, for the next two days, all that was on was shite but, still...

On fortuitous moments, I've just come back from the library with Captain Scarlet on DVD. I hadn't heard of it before this thread and now I get to sit back and watch it. How come they repeat Thunderbirds ad nauseum but I've never heard of this show?

That was a super-marionation series I missed. I tried to interest my lads in "Thunderbirds" but it wasn't for them. Sadly...

D'you know I've never seen a single episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"?

However, I've seen ALL of the original "Kolchak: The Nightstalker" including the one with the headless motorcyclist.

Does this make me hip...or pathetic? Please apprise.

Ian? Arthur? Jargoneer? Jseger? You know I respect you, guys. Let me down easy, okay?

Confession: I have never seen Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Nor any other fantasy stuff (and that includes Lord of the Rings 1-3). The only fantasy book I own is The Neverending Story --hey I got it as a birthday present in 1980! Fantasy (and Horror) is just No-Go Area for me. What little I saw of the X-Files left me scratching my head.

#106, #107

As Cliff said Captain Scarlet was a super-marionation series however they remade it with CGI a couple of years ago. It wasn't quite as good IMO but still worth watching.

There was also a fairly recent CGI cartoon of Dan Dare, Pilot Of The Future which was worth watching.

Cliff: if you're a middle-aged woman and you don't love Buffy, then there must be something wrong with you... Happily, I'm not, so I don't feel at all unusual for disliking it and not watching it.

Captain Scarlet I always liked best of the Anderson shows. The new CGI version was... okay. It wasn't badly done, but it didn't seem to have the charm of the original.

The CGI Dan Dare was awful. They made the Treens into giant green ogres, Dare's ship Anastasia was the wrong size and, the most unforgivable sin of all, they made Digby a Cockney!

It was the super-marionation version of CS I borrowed. It is impressive puppetry, although I'm a bit surprised at how much puppet violence is allowed in the G rated series. Have we all become way more precious about violence in kid's TV. I guess that's another discussion.

As an approaching-middle-age woman, I do, of course, love Buffy. I'd definitely call that fantasy/horror, whereas the X files (another firm favourite) is more sci-fi/horror.

For a couple of years at least Buffy vied with The West Wing for the best written show on television - smart, funny, and intelligent. I had high hopes that when the BBC brought back Dr Who they would use Buffy as the model but no such luck, they replaced the idea of clever dialogue with much running about. (I have a theory that of the average 42 min episode of Dr Who 50% of it is comprised of people running to or fro).

>111 iansales: - agree about the CGI cartoons of CS and DD. I find them difficult to watch at time due to the look of the animation, there is something quite unforgiving about it.

>108 CliffBurns: - liked the original Night Stalker but they got the recent remake wrong, which was a shame because the premise is still a decent one.

The other day I was in a thrift shop and I noticed a VHS of the miniseries "The Martian Chronicles" from, what, the early 80's it must have been.

Starring Rock Hudson of all people (possibly the most deceptively named actor in movie history). Remember that one? I think it was 4 hours long and the book was adapted by none other than Richard Matheson. Don't recall it being particularly good but I'm still kind of kicking myself for not picking it up. Perhaps I shall go back later in the week and see if it's still there.

I thought the "Dune" miniseries (who did that? HBO? The SF Channel?) was far superior to David Lynch's adaptation. The Lynch movie is just...a mistake. There's a funny story (dunno if it's apocryphal) where Dino De Laurentiis (hack producer) calls up David Lynch and wants him to direct a movie but because of his heavy accent Lynch thinks it's called "June".

I still would like to see what Jodorowsky would have put together. I saw some production sketches from the early days of "Dune" (the movie) and if I'm recalling correctly, H.R. Giger was involved with the design of the film at one point (what a collaboration of screwed up geniuses that would have been).

Someone mentioned Sid & Marty Kroft (this thread or another?)--weren't they the ones behind "H.R. Puffinstuff?" . I have very early memories of that one--it seemed barking mad. I think "Witchipoo" used to scare me. Anyone?

Have we sufficiently covered TV miniseries and made for TV movies? Anyone who thinks Roddenberry a genius should sit down and watch some of his failed pilots--"Genesis II", "Planet Earth", etc.

And has anyone ever viewed some of the YouTube segments of Comedy Central's William Shatner Roast? It's PAINFUL. George Takei making all of these really stupid gay jokes, Farah Fawcett looking like her face is falling off, references to Betty White's pubic hair...I was left gobsmacked. Try it (but only if you've got a strong stomach).

Jargoneer: I saw one episode of the new "Nightstalker" and dismissed it. Utter nonsense. Too EARNEST again. Darren McGavin/Dan Curtis original is silly at times but there are some good segments. Simon Oakland was one of those fun character actors, a good foil for Carl Kolchak (I believe they were good friends offscreen too).

Dunno if McGavin is still with us--I wrote to a fellow who knew him a few years back, to extend my best wishes and learned the actor had suffered a debilitating stroke. Boy, he was fun to watch and they even used him in an "X Files" episode, Chris Carter giving a tip of the hat to one of his influences, I'm sure...

(Just checked: McGavin died February, 2006--R.I.P Carl)

I remember The Martian Chronicles. Never been much of a fan of Bradbury, so it passed me by.

Dune... I thought the Sci-Fi Channel mini-series looked a bit dull. It was more faithful to the book than Lynch's film, but it didn't look very interesting. The sequel, Children of Dune was much better. Lynch's film... I think it's greatly under-rated. If you see the television or extended version, you can get a better idea of what Lynch was trying to do, and that makes you appreciate the chopped-up version that was released all the more. Some of Lynch's creative decisions can't be understood - the Weirding module, and the rain at the end.

Lynch's take on House Harknonnen looking like a pay toilet is all wrong.
Sting stinks. There are interesting things in the film, but the above are real problems as far as I'm concerned.

Obviously the Lynch movie is lavish in comparison, but I like the TV things better.I would also add that the TV movies would not look the way they look, had the Lynch film not been made first.

Let me say I have never seen an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I'm a big horror and hard sci-fi junky, but I'm not a fan in general of fantasy or vampires. I will admit I would probably like the show if I ever gave it a chance.

Sid & Marty Krofft did indeed do H.R. Pufinstuff and Sigmund the Sea Monster. I'd left those shows out of my post because they were fantasy and I was trying to focus on their (mostly bad) sci-fi output.

I liked The Nightstalker well enough (because I have a fondness for '70's T.V. horror), but Stephen King (pretty fairly) took it to task in Danse Macabre. Kolchak couldn't even take a cruise without the supernatural popping up.

Nonetheless, the episode with the zombie gave me the hebie jeebies.

The Nightstalker trivia: That episode about the headless motorcyclist (Chopper) was directed by Robert Zemeckis.

Andromeda - Didn't really watch it until after it was canceled. It was better than I thought it was going to be. It was ok.

Farscape - What a great show! Trying to collect the DVDs without breaking the bank!

Babylon 5 - Never watched it on TV. Saw the first couple of episodes and couldn't bring myself to watch any more.

Firefly - God, what a fun show. Never really got into Buffy or Angel, but I loved this show after a couple of episodes. Didn't watch it until longer after it was canceled.

X-Files - Tried to watch it but never really got into it. Back when it started, I wasn't very good at following a show with a consistent plot (i.e. no TiVo :)

Quantum Leap - It was kinda fun when I was flipping through and stumbled on reruns. Got tired of it pretty quickly. Cookie-cutter episodes

seaQuest DSV - You know, I had fond memories of watching this show when I was a kid (around 12, i think). I downloaded a few episodes and watched them and have come to the conclusion that I was pretty easy to please back then.

Stargate SG-1 - One of my favorite shows on TV. Although it could indeed have repetitive aspects to it, it had pretty far-reaching story archs that were fun. Good stuff.

Stargate Atlantis - Same as SG-1 but with the interpretation of a new set of writers and actors. Same engine but with that new car smell.

Heroes - Watched the first season in about a week and loved it. Started watching the second and got distracted away from it. Not as interesting, in my opinion.

Doctor Who (new seasons) - Silly humor, cheap sets - I was very surprised when I found myself enjoying the show!

I would put the tv series of Dune above the film simply because the greater length allows it more scope to cover the story. Ian, I wonder if it looks dull because of the novel - there is so much political intrigue going on that you end up with a lot of scenes of people telling rather than showing. The tv series also struggled with Harkonnen - it veers close to pantomime at time. I like Lynch as a director but I'm not convinced he was right for the adaptation - possibly because he has such a strong personal vision and Dune creates a powerful vision for it's readers. Lynch refuses to have anything to do with the movie, declining to work on a special edition of the movie, and disowning the television version.
Giger was brought on board by Ridley Scott, who was in line to direct it before it ended up with Lynch. Although I have heard he was linked with Jodorowsky, who had the brilliant idea of hiring Dali as the emperor!

In it's time, The Martian Chronicles, was a major event - getting a large non-sf audience as well. I think it tries hard to capture Bradbury's semi-mystical approach (are the Martians really just native Americans?); it really tries hard to thoughtful rather than insert some action scenes.

"Boy, he was fun to watch and they even used him in an "X Files" episode, Chris Carter giving a tip of the hat to one of his influences, I'm sure..."

He's also in an episode of "Millennium" as Frank Black's father -"Midnight of the Century"

http://millennium-thisiswhoweare.net/cmeacg/episode.php?mlm_code=211

>114 CliffBurns: - AAGH! My other half would KILL for a recording of 'The Martian Chronicles'!

Earlier posters mentioned 'Dark Skies' - was very fond of that for the retro conspiracy stuff (especially a full meeting of the Majestic-12 Committee where they go round the table of attendees - a conspiracy nut's wet dream!) and for a stunning Ronald Reagan impersonation in the last-but-one episode.

And 'Kinvig' - a Nigel Kneale thing done in the UK in the early 1980s. It was about sf fans - sorry, it was about Nigel Kneale's idea of sf fans, who he equated with 'UFO nuts' and 'losers'. It was sold as 'does this man live in a fantasy world or is he really battling an alien menace', but from about episode two or three at the latest, it was obvious that Kneale wanted to come down heavily on the side of the nutter hypothesis and things went downhill from there. I gave up on it and so did a lot of other people - it bombed. Served him right, in my view.

Robert:

Drop me a line in a couple of weeks re: "The Martian Chronicles" and I'd probably be more than happy to zip it off your way, gratis. What the hell, it was a fifty cent VHS (I picked it up earlier today). Don't let me forget: I'm going through final edits on my novel, changing the template on my blog, dealing with cover art, so my head is up my yin-yang. A gentle reminder in a fortnight or so will do the trick.

Tell your other half not to get her hopes up, my recollection is that it wasn't that great. But there may be some nostalgia involved--plus, as stated, it does sport a script by one o' my heroes, Richard Matheson...

Cliff: other half is a Bradbury fan, and also believes that classic sf should appear in adaptation. So 'Martian Chronicles' is worthwhile just because it's an adaptation of Bradbury. As Dr.Johnson said of women preachers: "Sir, it is like seeing a dog walking on its hind legs; one does not expect to see the trick done well, one is surprised to see it done at all."

(No sexism intended. Direct all complaints to the grave of the Good Doctor...)

I mentioned in the movies thread that you can get The Martian Chronicles DVD on Amazon for $10.00.

Two TV DVD sets that I'm glad I own are:

1 The complete collection of The Ray Bradbury Theater. The transfer isn't great and the budget for the show was non-existent, but Ray wrote the screenplays himself. The Crowd haunted me for 20+ years.

2 The '80's version of The Twilight Zone. This series is as good as the original in my opinion. The stories are intelligent and allowed to run for as long as is needed. Nightcrawlers and To See the Invisible Man are classics.

When is someone going to post on "The Starlost"?

This thread is utterly useless without some citation on the absolute WORST SF series ever.

I'm waiting...

And here's my proof:

http://www.geocities.com/canadian_sf/pages/media/starlost.htm

Take a look at the names that were affiliated with this show at one time. And please recall it ended up being shot on VIDEOTAPE. DVD's are available, for the curious. Or masochists...

We Canucks can teach you folks a lot about bad TV, bad movies and bad books, believe me. If anybody out there has memories of this show, I'd love to hear from you.

I'm not sure about that. Personally I think that belief stems from Ellison jumping up and down, screaming that it is the worst show ever, and shouting everybody else down. Ellison is sf's Norman Mailer: larger than life, where the individual becomes as much of the product as the writing - but unfortunately, is only half as talented or interesting. One of the facts that Ellison always fails to mention is that the show ended up in Canada because Fox couldn't sell it to anyone - no-one wanted to buy Ellison's show!. Fox could have easily just walked away but they decided to make it for syndication - this led to the project being vastly underfunded (they were no cheap sfx in those days) which, allied to a writer's strike, effectively crippled it. It's not a good show but it's no worse, is actually better, than dozens of other cheap sf shows. The question Ellison has to answer is "if you are such a talented tv/film writer as well, why have you produced nothing of note in the subsequent 35 years?"

I'm not sure I agree about Canadian literature either - writers like Margaret Atwood, Timothy Findley, Michael Ondaatje, Robertson Davies, etc, suggest otherwise. Christ, in Scotland, our big selling 'literary' novelist is Irvine Welsh, and he's a no trick pony. (I could rant about how much I dislike Welsh and his acolytes but I'd probably end up smashing my laptop and I can't afford that).

Can't really comment on Canadian television, we don't seem to get much of it in the UK. For some reason, we will buy any old rubbish from Australia but not Canada.

On the other hand, if IMDB has taught me anything, it is that Canada (especially Vancouver) produces the world's best looking women.

"Ellison is sf's Norman Mailer: larger than life, where the individual becomes as much of the product as the writing - but unfortunately, is only half as talented or interesting."

Great comparison. :D The thing about Ellison is he thinks that nobody has his number. If you parse some of the comments even by people here, you'd see that just about everybody does. Even people who like him know that he's more blow than show, and, er, litigious. ;)

I saw a few eps of this show when I was growing up. It was a dud. It might be more interesting to look at now on a historical note.

In all fairness though, Mailer did write The Naked and the Dead.

So...you require further proof. Once again the assistance of YouTube proves to be invaluable:

Here's the initial promo, with Keir Dullea and Douglas Trumbull expounding onthe virtues of the potential series (using footage from Trumbull's "Silent Running")

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VllG88T9YYM&feature=related

...and the prologue and some clips:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xWGxqq37_Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcW0-0qNQG8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCMtMVMKD40&NR=1

Jargoneer: You seem to have a profound disdain for Ellison and that's understandable. The man can be a pain. But bailing out of this turkey was one of the smartest decisions he made. Trumbull didn't hang around long either, not in any practical sense. The concept was flawed from the being, hamstrung by idiocy. "A disaster of galactic proportions"? Well, then, it wouldn't matter where the hell the Ark fled, right? A galaxy, as in the Milky Way, is a might big place and any disaster that big is pretty much gonna get you before the millions and millions of years could pass that would enable you to escape to the closest neighboring galaxy (Andromeda).

Look at those open-mouthed reaction shots. Observe that fine thespian Walter Koenig in action. No, no, this is the worst, the nadir.

And as for your remarks on Canadian literature--Atwood, Ondaatje, sorry, not a fan. More passive verbs per square inch that anyone I can think of. Davies' "alleged" humour was just that...ALLEGED. His profile here in his home country has dropped to nothing since his death. Findley had a couple of superb novels, no question. NOT WANTED ON THIS VOYAGE is magnificent. And he was a gentle, sweet guy too.

I once did an article for BROKEN PENCIL on which Canadian author's books would burn best--that one didn't go over well, I tell ya. Davies' musty tomes caught like kindling, as I recall.

Ah, well, another discussion for another day. Watch those "Starlost" clips, my friends. And, please, don't hold stuff like this and "Starship Troopers" against my home and native land. There are many redeeming things about Canada. Hockey, polar bears, Rocky Mountains, hockey, the Great Lakes, hockey...

Re: Mailer

And he wrote THE EXECUTIONER'S SONG too, which I think very fine. NAKED & THE DEAD was one of the most cynical, brutal novels of war I've ever read. None of that rah-rah bullshit, this was the view from the ground, the life of a grunt. The indifference to death and suffering, survival the number one priority. I just wish they'd go back and put the "f"-bombs back in, instead of the ridiculous compromise they made to get the book published in 1948.

Ellison is responsible for some fine prose too. If you put together a collection of the best of the best of his short stories, you'd have an anthology any writer would give his left testicle for. Yes, he's a personality and litigious and, from what I've heard, someone I wouldn't last 3 minutes with before exploding into rage and attempting to throttle him. It does not take away from some of the fine work he's done any more than Celine's political and racial views affect the high regard I have for his writing. It's the song, not the singer...

Celine? Song? Singer? Don't tell me you're a fan of your fellow Canadian Celine Dion?

Louis Ferdinand Celine, you...

Between you, Arthur and Jargoneer I always seemed to be getting horrific abuse. I believe I shall start flagging. I think I see the attraction now.

I'll get even...

How am I abusing you? You can listen to Celine Dion if you like.
Haven't heard this Louis Ferdinand guy though -is he an American Idol person? ;)

Arthur...

Not you too.

And here I've been thinking "Y'know, it would be nice to sit down with these bastids at a pub somewhere and laugh ourselves sick".

Instead, I conclude you are all cruel wretches, playing a mean-spirited game of "kick the Canuck".

I repeat, I'll get even.

As a sidebar, lemme add that my VHS copies of "Conquest of Space" and "Tarantula" finally arrived. Now if I just had time to sit down and actually WATCH the stack of movies teetering beside my TV.

Not (sob) that you bunch care...

Now even the icons are laughing at me....

Man, my butt is getting sore from the kicking I take on this thread.

Note to self: buy padded pants.

Louis Ferdinand Celine Dion - the well-known French-Canadian fascist drag act: winner of the 1998 Eurovision song contest. If you think sf has produced some rubbish you should see this - all the countries in Europe, except Italy who are in the huff, take part in an annual rite to demolish European unity and goodwill through song.

Re Ellison - I agree that he is a good short story writer;I was only referring to his bluff and buster personality, when he talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

Re Tarantula - I can't watch giant spider movies since I learned that if you did increase the size of a spider it would collapse under it's own body weight.

Talking of giant spiders has reminded me of classic bad horror sf film - Night of the Lepus, an Australian movie about giant rabbits. (Australians live in fear of rabbits). All they did was blow footage of normal rabbits, and it's very hard to made a rabbit look frightening - "oh my god, it's twitching it's nose".

BTW, is it between Them and King Kong for the best GIANT insect/animal film? Any other nominations? Good or bad?

Man, collaborate with the Nazis and look at the slander you have to endure. Being compared to the worst entertainer since Tiny Tim picked up a ukulele.

I think Ellison is something like 17 out of 17 in terms of the litigations he's undertaken over the years so either he's got a good lawyer or he's within his rights under the law. The suit against the comic book people seemed weird and vindictive. Something personal there.

But his ideas have been ripped off and as someone who has negotiated with film people, I can tell you they will try to screw you from every direction and one must handle them with the same care, fear and hate as you would a black mamba. If he kicks the shit out of them that's all right in my book.

Blake's 7 -- dialogue-driven, dark and depressing. I love it. My all-time favourite TV SF.

Doctor Who -- So much to enjoy in the original 7 doctors' stories, also the Virgin novelisations (wrong thread, I know). Can't really get on with the new series, although DT is an excellent doctor. As a series, it has lost its moral compass. I don't want preachy, but I do want consistent, and the only thing it is doing consistently is annoying me. This is (of course) Old Fart Syndrome on my part. Kids seem to love it, and that's all that's important, I suppose.

Babylon 5 -- I enjoy the first four seasons, but the pay-off after all the build-up was disappointing. Studio issues and post-series milking of the franchise were a shame, too.

Star Cops -- short and sweet.

Sapphire & Steel -- ditto.

The Prisoner -- almost three times as long, but not three times as sweet. A bit sweeter, maybe. OK, I'll stop this now...

Star Trek: TOS -- lots to love, and probably just as much to loathe, but it's the only ST series I caved and bought. The rest leaves me cold.

Space '£19.99' -- that epithet really made me laugh! One or two corking episodes in what is otherwise a singularly empty viewing experience for me. Everything about it is 'just slightly wrong'.

"Space: 1999" is still fun for me. Dunno why. Put it and Gerry Anderson's other live action series "UFO" about side by side.

First season definitely far superior to the followup, when they brought in Yankee Fred Freiberger to goose it up (and we all know what happens when a series retools--goes right down the toilet). Some genuinely fun episodes in that first season and I like the interplay between Landau and Barry Morse. If I had a chance, I'd definitely pick up the first season on DVD--shall do an Amazon check one o' these fine days. But my budget is blown this month, thanks to some old Super 8 SF movies I bought on eBay, some VHS flicks I mentioned on the SF thread and the first two series of "Black Books" on DVD (God, I love Dylan Moran).

Next month...

Nobody's picking up on my post about The Ray Bradbury Theater or the '80's version of The Twilight Zone? I was curious to see what others on the board thought of these two series.

I love them both. To me they are quality series that don't fall under the 'guilty pleasures' header, but I could see how both would have their detractors. Anyone?

(BTW: I never caught on to U.F.O. Hadn't really heard about it until the Sci-Fi Channel re-ran it. Loved the hokey effects, the nifty car and the purple-haired women, but I never made it through an episode without changing the channel. Should I give it a chance again and Netflix it?)

Didn't see either "Ray Bradbury Theatre" or the new incarnation of "Twilight Zone" so I can't comment on either. Didn't really see the point of resurrecting TZ without Serling, thought it was a show that had its time, earned its legend (though I think 80% of the original shows, usually the Serling scripted ones, were mediocre at best) and that was that. I read McCammon's "Nightcrawlers" story (one of the first adapted for the new TZ); not bad from an author who's as derivative as a photocopier.

"UFO" is silly but fun. Give it a chance? Er, depends on your state of mind, how much (and what) you've imbibed. Don't spend a fortune on a boxed set or bust your ass hunting it down but if you catch an episode here and there, it passes the time. Rather see an old "UFO" show than most of the new muck out there. Of course, that's hardly an unqualified endorsement, is it?

One last thing: what do you have against purple-haired women?

I think UFO was better than that. The first production block, anyway. Then it turned rubbish. But it's definitely worth getting hold of the first half of the season.

I've now watched the pilot and episode 2 of "Earth 2" :-). Definitely worth my time (a friend is doing backup recording for me, so I *will* get all this time, even if it's only in 4:3 instead of 16:9 --well, it's 1990s TV). Especially interesting to put the immigrating Earthlings in the position of the Aliens, and have them experience the "welcome" by the locals, including figuring out a completely different way of communication.

> 138: Aiee! Jargoneer reminds me of 'Night of the Lepus' - the one thing I recollect about thatfilm was that no-one ever spotted that there ought to have been piles of rabbit droppings the size of footballs dotted around the landscape... All that, and it starred DeForrest Kelley too. Make of that what you will.

Cliff,

The purple-haired women were in the 'Loved it' category.

About TZ ressurections, there were two. The '80's one was great. An hour long anthology that was intelligent. Harlan Ellison was on board. They adapted stuff by Harlan, Arthur C. Clarke, Ray Bradbury, Richard Matheson, Stephen King, Robert Silverberg, a bunch of good authors.

They had some well known actors and directers too. William Friedkin directed 'Nightcrawlers' for instance. And hey, the Grateful Dead did the theme music. If you have Netflix I would suggest renting a disc or two just to try.

Watch the episode 'A Little Piece and Quiet' and see if a TZ without Rod can be worthwhile. Some of the episodes were short. There are a few on YouTube that I would suggest you try (they are each shorter than 10 minutes): A Small Talent for War and I of Newton. (These aren't the two best or anything, but they're short.)

Then there was a second Twilight Zone revival a few years ago. The best thing about that one was that Forrest Whitaker filled in for Rod Serling. That one was terrible on all counts.

Ray Bradbury Theater was a TZ-esque show, except all the episodes are Ray Bradbury stories. He was the host and wrote all(?) the screenplays. The budget was less than miniscule, but the writing was of course great (usually). I would recommend checking out 'The Crowd' or 'The Playground'.

I've never seen Night of the Lepus and never will. But it's nice to know that DeForest Kelly was able to escape the Doc McCoy straitjacket and move on to bigger and better things than Star Trek

I saw "Night of the Lepus" on a double bill with "Stanley" when I was growing up. "Stanley" was a "Willard" with snakes.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0069308/

Actually there are a number of stars in Lepus -Stuart Whitman, Janet Leigh, Rory Calhoun. The thing that makes the film leaden is how earnest it's done.

I'm still waiting for someone to talk about "Creation of the Humanoids" here -Andy Warhol's favorite movie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055872/

"Night of the Lepus"

"Creation of the Humanoids"

At the very least, SF scores well for whacked out titling.

Into the third section of "Martian Chronicles"--some nice moments but poor production values and acting aren't helpful. The Martian sand ships, masks and assorted props are funky, though. A very downbeat mini-series, not a lot of happy moments. My wife watched part of it with me tonight and liked the look of some scenes. The big collars on the costumes are amusing and Rock Hudson is a source of wonder (and I don't mean in a good way). How this man made a career in movies and TV befuddles me.

To be fair to ol' Rock, I have two words that explain his career: Doris Day. He may not be Brando, but I still like Pillow Talk and the rest.

I read somewhere he (Rock) used to knit on the set sometimes while he was waiting for shots to be set up. You gotta wonder how that went over when he was making movies with guys like John Wayne. To be a fly on the wall for that encounter...

See John Frankenheimer's "Seconds". Rock Hudson hits enough of the right notes in his performance in that film.

That one should really be mentioned in the SF film thread as well. These threads seem to be congealing. ;)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060955/

I have "Seconds" but tried to watch it when I was too tired and nodded off after 20 minutes. Will try it again. Seemed rather dated, from what I saw but, again, my mindset could've been affecting my critical faculties.

Not a huge Frankenheimer fan, think he's another one of those over-rated chappies, his reputation largely riding on two or three movies. Don't recall he did much in the latter portion of his career. Wasn't he brought in to try to salvage the Brando/Kilmer version of "Island of Dr. Moreau"? He and Kilmer clashed repeatedly; he reputedly barked when the final shot was in the can (re: Kilmer): "Cut! Now somebody get that sonofabitch off my set."

Rock Hudson reminds me of that great line Peter O'Toole delivers in "My Favorite Year": I'm not an actor, I'm a movie star!

Frankenheimer did Ronin later in his career and that was terrific.

Saw "Ronin" and it just didn't grab me. Not the same way that "Heat" and "King of New York" did. Sorry, lad...

Never have seen King of New York, but yeah, Heat is higher up the ladder than Ronin, but that one is no slouch.

Diff'rent Strokes for different folks I guess. I never got the big brouhaha over Quentin Tarantino myself.

157>"Diff'rent Strokes for different folks I guess. I never got the big brouhaha over Quentin Tarantino myself."

Have you seen "True Romance"?

Yeah, I've seen True Romance, Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction, Four Rooms, Jackie Brown and the first 'volume' of Kill Bill. I just always feel like Quentin Tarantino is more fond of himself than I am. Like I'm being smacked over the head with how hip he is. And even though he's clever with dialogue, I always feel like I'm watching the old 'Pop-Up Video' show on VH-1.

By contrast, I love Robert Rodriguez. Not everything he does is great, but at least I enjoy it (Spy Kids and Shark Boy and Lava Girl not counting, but I even admire the balls he had to put those out since they were mainly done for his kids).

I found Kill Bill - both "volumes" - pretty dull. I couldn't see the point in remaking a crap film from the 1970s. Mind you, it's not just Tarantino who does that...

OTOH, I thoroughly enjoyed Spy Kids (all three of them) and Shark Boy and Lava Girl. There's no reason why kids' films can't be enjoyed by adults - and if anyone mentions Harry Potter, I'll scream...

Back on the subject of televison, and because there are self professed puppet pervs here, has anyone seen this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riMbDbpXBJg

Arthur: A friend of mine sent me the Peter Cook spoof of "Thunderbirds" about a year ago and it still makes me howl. Everybody should click on your link and have a look. It is bloody uncanny. Marvelous stuff.

JSeger: For sure pick up "King of New York". It is brutal but by far the best Abel Ferrara film. After I saw it, I eagerly watched his other flicks including "Bad Lieutenant" and none were even in the same league...some of them were out and out dreadful (ex. "The Addiction" and his godawful remake of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers").

I liked Tarantino's early films, although my taste for brutality has been diminished over the past few years. Loved "Reservoir" and "Pulp", less so the other flicks. I think "Kill Bill" could easily have been edited down into one movie. There were some powerful set pieces but in the end it didn't really pass the "so what" test. "True Romance" had a Tarantino script but it was directed by Tony Scott, was it not? Not necessarily to be put in with the rest of the batch. I hate Christian Slater (see: references to actors who are sucking black holes; the whole Nicholson thing he tries to lay on).

I like some of Rodriguez--the "Spy Kids" movies and the first "El Mariachi" film. Lots of energy, terrific editing. Haven't seen the last collaboration between Tarantino/Rodriguez, the one made up pf three films put together. Saw clips and it didn't really grab me so I didn't bother. Just seemed too over the top. Is it worth it for a look on a slow weekend?

Remember the scene where the barfly drinks wine off Salma Hayek's foot in "From Dusk Til Dawn"? I sure do...

collaboration between Tarantino/Rodriguez, the one made up pf three films put together You're thinking of Grindhouse and it was two films, one by Rodriguez and one by Tarantino. I've seen the Rodriguez one (Planet Terror) and I loved it. The trailer for Machete alone is worth the rent. Planet Terror was gloriously over the top.

Mind you I also loved From Dusk Till Dawn (once it got moving that is).

Okay, "Planet Terror" is on the list.

If it sucks, have your Euros ready, old son. Four bucks for the "New Release", then you have to figure in the gas, time, carbon tax, mental anguish...the tally could really add up...

I'm in Texas. We have very few citizens that know what a Euro is. Isn't that one of them Greek sandwiches with yogurt?

Why did I assume you were a Euro-type? You mean Ian isn't from Podunk, Ohio? I'm experiencing the effects of a paradigm shift.

I'll assume it's because I come off as being so sophisticated while I describe the nuances of of such quality shows as Johnny Sokko and His Flying Robot.

Sounds like our kind of show.

Watched back to back with "Iron Giant".

Except that The Iron Giant was an instant classic (Congrats on your Oscar, Brad Bird!) and Johnny Sokko and His Flying Robot is a steaming pile of crap. Mind you, it's a pile I would snap up in a heartbeat if the series ever gets an official release. I have a rubber Giant Robot figure (the robot was called 'Giant Robot' throughout the series except in the title. Go figure) on my computer desk as a matter of fact.

Imagine the most childish Godzilla movie of the '70's, only with worse special effects, worse writing and bigger lapses in logic.

Guilty pleasure? Damn straight!

Robots. Giant robots. Killer robots. Sentient robots. Windup robots. I love every kind of robot I can think of...except Threepio.

That stunning scene at the beginning of "Sky Captain & The World of Tomorrow" with the giant robots stomping through the streets of the city. Their retro look, the whole 30's & 40's thing. I saw that flick in the theater with my two kids and I kept whispering "Wow" during that segment. A cute movie but it never recaptured the majesty of that opening scene.

Best robot ever? Robbie? Gort? Maria from "Metropolis"? How about the drones from "Silent Running", they were fun (the scene where Bruce Dern teaches them to play poker). Terminators and finding out "What Are Little Girls Made Of". TV robots. Miniature robots, cartoon robots, artificial intelligences a la Hal.

Gotta have those robots...

The collector's edition of Forbidden Planet includes a little toy Robbie the Robot. It also includes The Invisible Boy, a film which featured Robbie, and an episode of The Thin Man with Robbie.

I thought Sky Captain & The World of Tomorrow was greatly under-rated. Kerry Conran was a little too faithful to his inspirations, and used a 1930s pulp style narrative... which didn't sit well with a 21st Century audience. Oh, and the rocket at the end is pretty damn cool too.

Yes, you're right, the rocket was terrific. The design of the film is really lovely...and this coming from a man who is not the biggest fan of CGI technology. "Sky Captain" had real vision at its core and a big, beating heart. That's what separates it from other special effects extravaganzas. The director knew his stuff and it shows in every frame, computer-generated or otherwise.

Speaking of robots:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/7268965.stm

Ugh. It looks like something out of a straight-to-DVD horror film...

The REAL story behind "A.I."...

I think we've hit on something here - "Sky Captain" fandom. I just loved the accurate retro stuff and the montage photography. We had a showing in a deserted cinema on a Sunday morning - I suppose it just wasn't to British nostalgic tastes.

Now, if we could get Kerry Conran to do 'War of the Worlds' in proper steampunk style...

Funny, I liked it ("Sky Captain") more than my lads. Must be the retro thing. Or maybe they weren't old enough to appreciate the lovely lasses opposite Jude Law in the flick. Lucky bugger...

Has the director, Conran, done anything else worthwhile? I think the authentic "WoTW" would be something, all right.

Conran was down to do John Carter of Mars, but then he wasn't. It was Jon Favreau. Then it wasn't him either. Now it's Pixar, and I forget who's directing. No idea what Conran has been up to.

There is an "authentic" version of War of the Worlds. It was some cheap Canadian film, and it was complete and utter rubbish. The CGI were equivalent to an early 1980s computer game, the acting was terrible, and it was badly shot and edited.

No matter who does John Carter of Mars, I'm predicting a train wreck. I'm glad Robert Rodriguez was dropped, because honestly I don't see in this day and age how a movie like John Carter of Mars can be good.

Don't get me wrong, I loved A Princess of Mars. But with focus groups, studio interference, the need to market it toward families/kids so they can sell toys and partner up with McDonald's... train wreck.

Conran doing Burroughs...hmmm. But if it could be anybody, he'd be the man.

My sons and I watched the pilot for the new "Battlestar Galactica" series last night. Bor-ing. My God, if it wasn't for the Cylon-human hybrid that spent the entire show half-falling out of her red dress, I would have had little to interest me. My lads are more into the fantasy side of things than SF so they weren't much impressed either.

Again, that over-earnestness everywhere in evidence and the apparent necessity to give every freakin' minor character a backstory and silly subplot, which drags things out interminably. I've got another disk to watch but I ain't looking forward to it. At the same time we picked up "Galactica", I wandered back into the old movie section (nothing in "New Releases" should be of the slightest interest to anyone who claims sentience) and grabbed Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket", which I haven't seen in about eight years.

I guess even then I had some inkling that "Galactica" wasn't likely to make the grade...

>182 Jargoneer: - I'm glad someone else wasn't impressed by Galactica. I found it to be both cliched and stupid in a "that doesn't make any sense" way; more disturbingly, it is a 'hard' sf series that is actually anti-science, i.e., visions are more reliable way of finding planets than technology. It's about as credible as Thundercats, snarf snarf.

Ooooh! Thundercats! I always wanted to strangle that little Snarf. I loved most of the other cartoons from that timeframe, but I never got Thundercats.

To me the new Galactica is okay. At least I prefer it to most stuff on the air.

Cliff,

(nothing in "New Releases" should be of the slightest interest to anyone who claims sentience)

Sometimes I really like your posts, sometimes I think you're an old crank (sometimes both at the same time).

Sometimes I read my posts and think "what an arse" and other times...well, no, actually, I always seem to come across as a complete curmudgeon, Luddite and old fart all rolled up into one. I know, it's pathetic. I'm only 44 years old. Too young to begin a sentence "Back when I was a kid..."

Further on "Galactica" and supporting players...

Why does every minor actor in a TV series deserve a special episode devoted to the trials and tribulations of their characters? Emphasize one or two leads and render everyone else a button-pusher and stand-in. Have your major stars and everyone else is just a talking prop. Why the hell do we need fifteen minutes of a 48 minute episode devoted to the romantic aspirations of some assistant chief engineer? Or the difficulties a certain medical officer is having with her wayward son? Awk!

Reminds me of those stories that during the making of the first "Star Trek" movie director Robert Wise was driven to distraction by the minor supporting players demanding reaction shots and trying to insinuate themselves into scenes.

"Star Trek: TNG" was particularly guilty of allowing bit players too much screen time and it makes certain episodes completely unwatchable...

Why does every minor actor in a TV series deserve a special episode devoted to the trials and tribulations of their characters?

Makes it easier to write out the stars once they demand more money.

And in a less cynical bent: More stories probably helps a series from becoming stale. That probably wouldn't be such a problem if American series were more like UK series that have a definite run and an end.

Cliff,

Don't worry. Sounding like my angry grandpa is part of your charm.

I've noticed I listen to music now and find myself thinking 'Back in MY day the music really mattered!' and I'm only 36.

I'm also becoming less and less interested in newer movies and television, though Hellboy 2 has me pretty jazzed.

BSG is not great. Sadly, it is among the best, most intelligent television sf currently being made. But it certainly has plenty of faults - http://justhastobeplausible.blogspot.com/2007/07/why-television-sci-fi-sucks.htm...

Your blog post is a good one and I think "lack of subtlety" is indeed one of the reasons why SF on TV (or even movies) just doesn't work that well. And I still think it also has to do with people--producers, writers, fans--who have little or no background in SF, except for the ubiquitous stuff ("Star Trek", "Star Wars" et all) and no grounding in the field. The best of the original "Trek" programs were written by SF people--Theodore Sturgeon, Harlan Ellison, Richard Matheson. The TV writer hacks they employed just varied their usual stock set of ideas by adapting and setting a story in space.

Watched another couple of episodes of "Galactica" last night--hey, I rented two freakin' disks--and my opinion hasn't budged. Not my kinda show, I'll leave it to the 14-18 year old crowd. They can afford the t-shirts and toys...

Hi fellow SF-buffs,

Galactica, actual.

I'm going to stand up for BSG. (Note the in-crowd abbreviation.) I love BSG. It's better than everything else on TV and (gasp!) even a lot of books. The characterization is phenomenal. The writers don't go for the dramatic reaction, or even the shocker reaction, they go for the most human reaction, even amongst the humonoid cylons.

Yeah, that one actress (#6) does fall out of her dress a little too much. And Deanna Troi's necklines plunged with the ratings.

Yes, every minor character does have a backstory and gets their moment in the sun. In this, BSG approaches verisimilitude more closely than many novels. Some novels these days are just bloated short stories, meant for a singular effect about one character. BSG is more like Middlemarch or War and Peace. It's a series. It's an epic. They're even ending it after a good arc rather than drawing it out like MASH (longer than the actual Korean War.)

Besides, some of those "minor characters" just got a whole lot more important in the final episode of last season, like Anders, Colonel Tigh, and the Chief.

Even the episode titles are witty: "Tigh me up, Tigh me down," "The Son Also Rises," etc.

It's not merely tech-based, reactionary SF. It's a quest.

Besides, I don't think anyone here has bemoaned the painful horror that was the television series Logan's Run.

TK Kenyon

Okay, T.K.

An admirable defense.

Just not my kinda show, I guess. Not that anything on television is these days, with the possible exception of "South Park".

I haven't watched a lot of the newer incarnation of Battlestar Galactica (no in-crowd abbreviation from me!), but I do like what I've seen. My wife LOVES it.

But the bad sci-fi loving nerd in me wants to see more of the rampaging cylon robots rather than a girl who's spine glows when she's horny. (I'm still in the first season, so my comments are probably out of date here.)

>191 TKKenyon: - can you explain a couple of things from the first series?

1. the Cylons attacked the human planets using nuclear weapons: one of the plotlines has a human and an organic Cylon running about a planet that has been nuked but there is no nuclear winter, no radiation sickness, etc

2. Starbuck gets stranded on an asteroid/planet, finds a Cylon fighter and manages to fly it back to Galactica by squeezing and pressing the organic material that flies the fighter - much in the same way I would be able to make a human walk by squeezing their .

And what is wrong with everyone? That doctor acts more suspicious than Jack the Ripper standing over a shredded body holding a carving knife.

That's my problem with BSG - it wants to be taken very seriously but undermines itself by being very silly at times....

I will agree that at the heart of BSG there is a very interesting idea about killing God (Nietzsche would be proud) but the producers/writers don't really seem to know what to do about it.

The only really acceptable end for BSG is for the Cylons to slaughter the remaining humans and replace them - anything else is a cop out.

ps....judging by some of the photographs I've seen of Marina Sirtis the producers were probably fighting to raise her neckline (google her and look shocked at the pictures that come up).

Has anyone watched the re-vamped scifi channel version of Flash Gordon?

I...am...simply...furious....that you made a disparaging comment about Ms. Sirtis' neckline. Or anything else that relates to that fine specimen of humanity.

Have you seen her husband? He looks like FABIO..

Cliff,

I googled those photos as jargoneer asked and didn't get that comment either. Accuse me of stereotyping all you want, but I can guaran-damn-tee you that no sci-fi series that has ever been or ever will be struggled to cover up any female cast member.

If the X-Files could have had come up with a way to have Gillian Anderson investigating the paranormal in a bikini, it would have happened every week.

I've heard it said that all the women's costumes in ST:TNG featured padded bras. And that padding wasn't there for comfort...

I would've watched "X Files" more often if Gillian Anderson would have been wearing... (etc.)

*goes after CliffBurns with a cricket bat*

...and quite appropriately so.

I consider myself chastised.

There's a new X-Files movie out later this year so all the bikini dreams may still come true. ('Bikini Dreams' sounds like a lost Beach Boys classic). Unfortunately, I'm boycotting it on the basis that Scotland's national jackass, Billy Connolly, is in it.

#194

1 - There is radiation sickness - they have injections that they have to have with a day or so of protection and some time is spent looking for the medicine. As for the nuclear winter thats a hypothetical side affect which isn't caused by the explosion itself, but rather by all the fires caused by the broken pipelines etc caused by the damage caused by the shockwaves, in the pilot there aren't that many fires, lots of rubble - but there's an episode in season 2 where there are lots of the humanoid cylons living in the city - it wasn't burnt down. The cloud from the actual explosion will dissapate in a few hours. as it has done in all nucler explosion tests.

2 - Starbuck is inside the cylon as if you opend up a corpse and applied an electirc charge to any nerve, you will get a reaction, never hear the story of the frogs legs? French scientist applied a charge to frog legs and they bounced all over the place, but there is some artistic licence here.

Iansales - the blog post,

Yes it was a coup, then he realised he was wrong and let her go.

Cain thought she was doing the right thing in the exingencies of war, she wanted to survive and she wanted revenge. Civillians would have held her back.

You can have a black market without money, it's batering, like they did before money existed, lots of people have stuff they are willing to exchange for other stuff, not everything you want would be provided, every thing you need, but not everything you want, if I was on those ships then I would save up any government rations and whatever I could lay my hands on for some books there would be people willing to swap books with me for what I had, but how would I know who? Thats where the gang lord comes in, he'd give me the books other people have given him in exchange for things that they want, no money involved.

As for the politics, none of the fans know anything about it, they don't really care they just want to know who the fifth is, the writers can do anything they want and we wouldn't notice.

It wasn't presented as a coup - in fact, Adama's exact words were, "I'm terminating your presidency." That's not the same as "I'm seizing power." The former implies that the presidency only existed with Adama's approval.

It doesn't matter if Cain thought she was doing the right thing. Her actions resulted in the deaths of those she was supposed to protect. At the very least, questions should have been asked about her judgment.

If you can barter for the things you want... then that's not a black market. That's the actual economy. The whole point of the black market episode was the introduction of a criminal underclass... and for that to exist they had to backfit a monetary system, despite saying in earlier episodes that one did not exist.

>202 Musereader: - (1) I'm not even going to mention the crassness of an anti-radiation injection but point out that a nuclear winter is caused by explosions throwing debris into the air. The fact a planet was bombarded by nuclear weapons would make this a certainty - massive volcano blasts on earth have been seen to do the same on a minor scale.

(2) the frog analogy is pointless - a electrical charge creates a muscular twitch; it does not give the scientist a working frog - and if I remember the episode correctly Starbuck flies the fighter by squeezing and pressing on the nerves/muscles. If that's artistic licence, it's a forgery.

>203 iansales: - just to add to your analysis of the black market - it also depends on people having something that others want, i.e., food, drugs, drink, etc. Since the fleet exists in a closed environment, where would black marketeers get these items - they could only get them from the military. Could it be that Adama not only has no regard for legitimate power but is also a drug lord?

Another facet of the presidency that made no sense was the fact they did press conferences - why? In an emergency situation, with limited resources, it's highly unlikely that there would be a press corps.

Re BSG -- Well, I watched the pilot and season 1 and enjoyed it, to a point. It was bleak and gritty at times, with lots of grim foreboding and broken tech heralding the doom of humanity at the hands of an alien menace.

As I like my SF to be depressing rather than upbeat, all of this should have ushered in the immediate purchase of future seasons (I don't have a TV, so don't watch programs as they broadcast).

However, I haven't even bothered to rent them. Whilst there were a number of thrilling moments and I like the 'feel' the series evoked, overall it was burdened with too many clunker episodes, an unbalanced cast, and a nasty feeling that the whole series was going to have a happy ending (shudder).

If I find out that it doesn't, then I may revisit it.

Have subsequent seasons been generally more upbeat, more depressing, or about the same as the first in terms of the moods they have evoked?

> Have subsequent seasons been generally more upbeat, more depressing, or about the same as the first in terms of the moods they have evoked?

Subsequent seasons have been about the same.

Personally, I dislike BSG because Dr. Baltar is still alive. Although a trial was held during season 3 for some crimes he committed, I was not satisified with the outcome.

I have a coworker who believes that the series will end with the discovery of Earth and finding that it is inhabited by Cylons.

...or the ghost of Lorne Greene...

204 Yes, ok anti-rad injection is a bit stupid, but i have seen that plot device before. But you can't compare a volcano with a bomb, volcanoes throw out dust and ash and *have* caused 'winters' before, but *none* of the previous nuclear explosions on earth have had this 'winter' effect because that cloud is gas and water vapour - not soot like the cloud from a volcano which is what causes the 'winter'. Therefore any ash in the air is must be from fires, and the city didn't burn.

There was *no* money in that black market episode. This is a fleet of *30* ships - cargo, cruise, private, mining, prison, refinery and government as well as military, nobody knows everything that everybody has, passengers can have anything, from a week's worth of luggage and gifts for relatives and friends,to the entire contents of a house and the profit is power, control and comfort and the ability to have everything he wants, money is not the only thing one can make a profit in and not the only thing an ecomomy can be based on.

I did think Adama should have called Cain on what she did, but Cain suppressed it she swaned in and took charge because she had the rank, she asked to see Adamas records, but he didn't see hers - Adama and Roslin didn't know what she did untill the rumours came from the lower ranks and by that time she was already acknowledged as higher in rank and they felt they couldn't do anything about it without a civil war, which you know would be bad since they are already in one war.

And in any random part of any population there are journalists and if you belive the TV journalists will insist on doing thier job in the middle of a war. These are people from all walks of life anything might be happening on those other ships - even a rebellion.

And also any differences can be explaind by the fact that they aren't from earth.

ps. how do you do italics?

>204 Jargoneer:: "Another facet of the presidency that made no sense was the fact they did press conferences - why? In an emergency situation, with limited resources, it's highly unlikely that there would be a press corps."

Well, if you hadn't already noticed, all the politics seems to me to be trying to redo 'The West Wing' with spaceships and killer robots - down to duplicating the tv footage of Johnson's swearing-in in the pilot episode.

There was fun to be had early on in spotting the differences the production designers and scriptwriters built in to show that this was an alien culture - "wireless" for radio, paper with the corners clipped off, Caprican medical science never having twigged to lung cancer - but they soon forgot that these are not Earth-dwelling humans and put all sorts of cultural slips in; plus it was funny how the Capricans managed to independently design and build the Humvee...

Sorry, there was money in that episode, I just didn't remember it. Here is an interview with the writers about the economy of BSG
http://en.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Sources:Concurring_Opinions_Interview_with_Ron...
Zarek wasn't a law maker so that policy of no money wasn't accepted or actually instituted by Rosln, there was a response by her of trying to fix the economy, but that storyline got lost by the wayside according to the writers. Besides this is about the battleship and we don't really get to find out much about the civillian issues except where they impinge.

About Roslins power, I realised last night that she does only have power by the sufference of Adama, but Adama needs her because handling the civilian and military issues would be too much for one person, he doesn't have the experience and he said in one episode that he would have acted as Cain had , but that he wouldn't have been able to face Apollo again, so he's his conscience.

Anyway I think that Smallville is worse and far more contradictory than BSG - and I sat through 2 seasons of that because my ex-boyfried was a fan - Why does the kryptonite affect everyone differently? Why is everybody who is affected evil, i thought the show was about how you made choices and Clark chose not to be evil like his dad wanted - but the people affected can't? There was a prophacy huh? and in every other incarnation he doesn't know Lois or Lex from childhood and his dad is alive! (though I was kind of a fan of The new Adventures of Superman, which is also quite bad)

and then there is Terminator:Sarah Connor, I stopped watching when that METAL HEAD came through the time machine, when it's even reiterated in the series that nothing that isn't organic can get through (they come through naked, so thier clothes can't but that metal head can wtf?).

>209 RobertDay: - if BSG was only as good as The West Wing we would all be telling people constantly,"I told you that sf could be intelligent, funny, and involving".

>210 Musereader: - the problem with Smallville is that it spent too much time being a variation of the X-Files 'freak of the week' scenario. It's a fault a lot of non-realistic shows fall into. The New Adventures of Superman quite bad? With Teri Hatcher looking like that I didn't notice....

An extensive article on "Battlestar Galactica" from Salon.com:

http://www.salon.com/ent/tv/feature/2008/04/02/bsg_explainer/index.html

#211 -- one of the reasons I decided to ditch the TV three years ago is that I got bored looking for programs that were as good as The West Wing in any genre, let alone SF.

Gotta go along with you there, Diamat. Our house doesn't have cable and from what I've seen during stays at hotels, etc., we aren't missing much. That old Springsteen song, "57 channels and nothin' on" comes to mind (and now I'll be humming it for the rest of the morning).

And that's why we're all here posting on LT and not stuck in front of the box. (It's also why many of us have decent video collections - so we want to have something worth watching when we want to be stuck in front of the box by choice.) (And usually doing something else - yes, men CAN multi-task too!)

#215 -- re. multi-tasking: yes! I can drink whisky and read.

That's an Irishman multi-tasking...

I just joined this group (re-joined?) at 217 messages, all but the first ten unread. I hope what I want to bring up hasn't been brought up before, or at least not completely wrung out.

In my youngest youth I was a great fan of both Captain Video and Tom Corbett Space Cadet. These were TV shows in the same mold as the old '30' and '40's movie serials such as Flash Gordon (the most classic space ships of all time sputtering around obviously on wires, but gosh what style) and Buck Rogers.

Neither of these shows would hold up at all today, but in their day they were just about the only game in town and for a six year old kid they were perfect.

I want to say the Buster Brown show sometimes ran the old serials like Flash Gordon. (Froggy, plunk your magic twanger! Where's Midnight the cat when you need him?)

I can't remember seeing any sci-fi on US Steel Hour or Playhouse 90, or The Alcoa Aluminum Hour or those classy shows of the fifties, although I remember seeing Requiem for a Heavyweight, written for Playhouse 90 (?) by Rod Serling, but it wan't sci-fi, just Rod Serling.

Jargoneer, in # 14, Capt. Kirk should hire Denny "Never lost a case" Crane to defend him. I'm sure his best friend, Dr. Daniel Jackson would be happy to assist

Yes, I'd like to hear more about any SF-oriented segments of some of those early TV shows, "Playhouse 90" et all. Can you imagine doing a SF TV show LIVE? That would be fun (and nerve-wracking).

By the way, has anyone seen concert footage of when the boys from BBC's "Mighty Boosh" take their show out on tour? These lads are treated like rock stars, no foolin'...

>218 geneg: - oddly, everyone of a certain age in the UK knows quite a few of the old serials as BBC used to show them during the school holidays - Flash Gordon (all 3 stories), Buck Rogers, Batman, Crash Corrigan - Undersea World, King of the Rocket Men, are all shows I remember seeing.

>219 geneg: - it's funny that Shatner spent most of the career telling people that he was a good actor but acceptance of him only occurred when he started hamming it up a little(?).

Did anyone watch TekWar? I don't remember it ever being shown in the UK. I imagine it was brilliant, coming from the brain of William Shatner, and starring the great Greg Evigan - a man who managed to stun audiences twice, with his performances in B.J. and the Bear, and My Two Dads (the girl in it grew up quite nicely - not always the case, as poor Fred Savage must think to himself when he looks in the mirror).

>220 CliffBurns: - a couple of years ago BBC re-enacted a little SF show, A is for Andromeda. Most people seemed to miss this point and criticised the show for being cheap and slow - that's probably the nature of live drama. (I wonder if the same people go to the theatre and criticise it for not having enough CGI?).

Re - Mighty Boosh - I find it all a bit strange. I saw them a few times at the Edinburgh Festival and they were very enjoyable but their tv show leaves me cold.

Watched about six minutes of "Tekwar" purely out of curiosity and because I think it was partially funded and filmed in Canada (I like to see where my tax dollars go).

Terrible, as you would imagine.

Shatner doesn't write the Tek novels any more than he does his "Trek" books; he comes up with an idea or two and throws them at people like Judith & Garfield Reeves Stevens to flesh out--and the rest of us must endure the results of such benighted collaborations...

By the way, which one from "B.J. and the Bear" was Evigan? The human or...

I've seen some later episodes of "Mighty Boosh" and they're not as funny as the early stuff. Still, "Howard Moon"--the guy cracks me up. Not as much as Ricky Gervais maybe...

"Can you imagine doing a SF TV show LIVE? That would be fun (and nerve-wracking)."

Well, this is what Richard Dreyfuss has to say about Live TV: ""The fact we've got them all together to do live television, really means that there's only one reason... which is pure and utter terror. We want to scare ourselves silly." (Richard Dreyfuss about "Fail Safe", 2000, not a SF show, but still) ". Find enough actors looking for a scare and you're set ;-).

On all the shows mentioned in #220 to #224, with the exception of Buck Rogers and Batman never made it to our screens. Should I count this as a blessing?

We had the show "Raumpatrouille" ,though. It ran for only 7 episodes in 1966, and started a week later than Star Trek (which was shown here only in 1972). Looking at it today, there is all sorts of cheesiness, just like in the early Star Trek episodes, but OTOH I found myself getting really involved with stories about the commandant of the ship getting tortured to get other crew members obey to the wishes of a gaggle of outcasts, or the crew getting involved with a renegade group of earthlings that split off from Earth some 500 years ago and see things a bit different... I bought the DVD a month ago and had great fun re-watching all episodes. Great production design for the time, as well.

"Raumpatrouille" looks fun--now, see, this is the sort of thing the "Sci Fi Channel" should be running during the wee hours, for us curious insomniacs and space rangers of all ages and races...

I remember a "Long Night of Raumpatrouille" at the local students' cinema back in 1992 (ca.). They started at 18.00 and showed all seven episodes in a row, with short pauses to change the reels between episodes. End was around 3.00 at night. Of course I stayed!

A friend of mine is a fan of Raumpatrouille and even has the soundtrack on LP. He claims it was vastly superior to Star Trek.

>226 CliffBurns: - as we know, the problem is that English-speaking people don't accept dubbing very well, and a significant proportion of them won't accept subtitles either, so it is hard to sell foreign language television to the US, UK, Canada, et al. (Hollywood initially thought this as well, and in the early thirties used to make Spanish versions of simultaneously with the English ones - the most famous one being Dracula. If you get a chance, it's worth seeing - with the exception of the actor playing Bela Lugosi it's probably a superior film).

Spanish version of "Dracula"? Now that would be interesting. But you say it's a "superior" film? Better than Tod Browning's creepy version? THAT I'd have to see...

He's right about the Spanish Dracula though.

I have the Dracula Legacy Collection DVD that has both versions and a documentary. The doc talks about how the Mexican crew would come in at night and film on the same sets. They would see what the Americans were doing and attempt to outdo them. Instead of hitting the cigarette case with the mirror, Spanish Dracula smashes it to kindling. Instead of a static shot of Drac walking down the stairs, the Spanish version has a dolly camera. I haven't taken the time to watch the Spanish version yet, but from what the documentary showed it was pretty impressive.

That's wild! This is the first I've heard of this process. When did they stop reshooting movies like this and stuck with dubbing? Was it just the Spanish/Mexican crews who would do this or were there French, Hungarian, etc. crews waiting patiently to shoot once the big boys were done with the sets for the day?

The process didn't last very long - it had disappeared by the synchronisation allowed successful dubbing and subtitles were perfected, roughly 1932-3.

There were three languages in which other versions appeared - French, German, and Spanish. What was remade in what language was determined by where the studio thought the market was. Although most of the versions were cheap fast run-throughs of the original it was not always the case - Greta Garbo made two versions of Anna Christie. (From what I've read, the German version was superior due to Garbo being more comfortable in German). The same was true of actors like Lupe Velez and Ramon Novarro, who would make two versions of the same film. The foreign language versions often had the advantage of less censorship but were hampered by lack of studio interest.

I don't know of any other genre films that were made in two languages - The Cat and the Canary is probably the closest.

An interesting piece of trivia is that the great Luis Bunuel worked for US studios doing screen tests for French actors to be shipped to Hollywood for these films - he also later worked for Warner Brothers dubbing movies into Spanish and French.

Bunuel's autobiography is wonderful, I was fortunate to find a copy at a library several years ago.

Thanks for the info on the early days of cinema--this was all news to me and I appreciated learning about it.

Don't forget Werner Herzog's remake of Nosferatu. He filmed everything twice, once in German and once in English and this was in 1979 (though I admit that's the exception, not the rule).

They're still doing it! Michael Haneke's Funny Games with Naomi Watts and Tim Roth (now making the rounds) is a virtual replica of his 1997 German-language film of the same name. This film, variously described as "abrasive, cruel, dark, appalling, excessive, nightmarish and horrific", was remade because Haneke considered it more "culturally appropriate" for America than Austria.

#226 to #228: There has been a reissue of (part of) the Raumpatrouille series in the form of a 90 min. film in 2003, which is available with English subtitles. Though nothing can beat the RealThing™ (and the film edition did get lukewarm reviews, at best).

The soundtrack is cool (Bossa Nova, Jazz, twelvetone music), maybe not for everybody, but definitely not standard 1960s TV fare. And come to think of it, not even standard 2000s TV fare (you can listen to clips at amazon.de).

Good stuff, folks!

> 233 Jargoneer:

One notable genre film made in multiple languages was the German techno-thriller (as we would call it today) "FP1"/"FP1 antwortet nicht" ("Floating Platform 1 does not reply") - late 1920s German film about the building of an artificial floating airstriup in mid-Atlantic. Male lead star in the English and German versions was Conrad Veidt; the French version was done by someone notable at the time whose name now completely escapes me..

It's listed in the Nicholls/Clute "Encyclopaedia of Science Fiction".

FX veered from the cardboard to the surprisingly good, like the platform's ballast tanks (some of the setpieces look rather more like clever location finding) and the film ends with a marvellous modernist montage of Junkers aircraft - corrugated-skin precursors of the famous Ju.52 - arriving en masse with an airlift of fuel to replenish the generator tanks that the saboteur had drained. This modernist bit is rather out of character with the rest of the film.

About fifteen/twenty years ago, the British (Irish) MoR DJ Terry Wogan popularised a "song" (more of sung monologue in the style of Rex Harrison) called "There's a lighthouse shines across the bay", declaimed by Conrad Veidt. The original record must have been a publicity tie-in for this film, because it appears, as a song sung by wistful sailors at sunset, in the English-language version at least. Veidt himself never sung it in the film.

I have a copy recorded off-air some time ago. I can make PAL copies on DVD for anyone who's interested. Suggest you contact me off-forum.

#239: FP1 antwortet nicht! Now there's a blast from the past. There is one song from the German version of the film (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0022869/), that made it into the charts sometime in the 1980s in Germany ("Das Fliegerlied"). I could still sing along, I believe ;-). The film was shown a few times on TV around the time.

There was also Der Tunnel, made at roughly the same time, which was also made in three languages (although technically the English language version was made separately, using the same footage). In the German/French versions, the tunnel to the US goes to mainland Europe; in the English language version it goes to the UK. It ends with the classic shot of cars entering the tunnel - for a 3300 mile trip; obviously at the same time, off camera, they had made major improvements to the petrol engine.

The French actor in FP1 was Charles Boyer, who went on to be a major star in Hollywood.

Knew nothing about these films, gang, thanks for elaborating on them...

#241: Der Tunnel? One of my favourite books, which I found in a book sale years ago :-). Great read.

lived a life largely free of tv, by accident and by intent. Watched 3.5 seasons of X-files on dvd and liked the first 3; watched all of firefly on dvd and liked them alot; what dribs and drabs i saw of startrek never appealed. Sadly, i never watched the video tape of the tv version of "the left hand of darkness??" that my sister sent me years ago. Have enjoyed the first 3 seasons of Lost on dvd..i think that sort of counts as sci-fi.
bob
the lack of tv is far more serious when it comes to NCAA basketball.......(well, UNC-Chapel Hill basketball to be more exact)

There's a TV adaptation of The Left Hand of Darkness? Or do you mean The Lathe of Heaven?

#245 "There's a TV adaptation of The Left Hand of Darkness? Or do you mean The Lathe of Heaven?"

Now that would explain it. I was wondering how a tv adaptation of one of my favorite novels would have slipped under my radar, though it happens sometimes. Was starting to think about casting and who they'd have filling the androgynous roles and how they would make credible changes when they adopted a gender. It actually could make an interesting movie, though I remember reading that LeGuinn felt she'd been a bit heavy handed with the theme and would have written it differently in retrospect.

Neither adaptation of "Lathe of Heaven" I've seen is very good. LeGuin might be too cerebral for TV or movies. The superficiality of those mediums work against her.

y'all are right..it WAS the Lathe of Heaven...and it's my fault for never having watched it..Still have the video though

For those waiting for the next SciFi channel movie, here it is!!!!

Aztec Rex
Sat, May 10, 9:00 PM
Cortes and his conquistadors encounter a small tribe of Aztecs who worship a thunder lizard.

Can't wait, can you for ancient MesoAmerican civilization verses prehistoric dinosaur like creature. ;)

Sounds completely underwhelming - Cortes and his men against the rampaging thunder lizard.

Is that what the SF channel has stooped to - B-grade alternate history horror movies?

250 rojse - "B-grade alternate history horror movies?"

yep, that's been a SF channel movie offering for awhile - they do mix it up with alien horror on new planet sometimes though.

These SF Channel people are morons. Do ANY of them have a background or the most basic knowledge of SF films? Any love or appreciation for the genre?

It's appalling the shit they're producing...

#252

Even if they knew nothing, why not make a poll to see what the best SF movies are of all-time? The people watching the channel would know what they like, why not listen? And if they are too lazy to set up an online poll, go and find one of the many lists on the internet, or even from a book, there are enough of them to use as a guide. Most of the movies on these lists are at least ten years old, and could be aired for a pittance.

After that, check through the list, play the more expensive movies on Sunday night. Also make a Saturday Night Special, play two or three movies from a list of fifteen cheap B-grade SF movies, and play three different movies from the catalog each week, repeat them once a month, and change the movies they play them with. Surely that would get the viewers in in droves?

Maybe I missed my calling...

Maybe it's just cheaper for them to crank out the junk SF movies. I'm pretty fed up with the channel as a whole. There's more horror thank SF (my apologies to you horror fans).

#254

Don't apologise, it's called the SF channel, not the horror channel.

Anyway, I am sure that there is plenty of good B-grade SF movies, there is a separate thread that discusses them.

I have watched my first Dr. Who episode last night - don't watch too much television, prefer books which have more scope and intelligence. The entire episode had been plugged shamelessly because a famous celebrity done a guest spot (Kylie Minogue, for those actually interested) and I actually found out when the show was on, so I decided to tune in.

Fairly interesting idea - titanic redux in space, the famous celebrity wasn't so bad that it ruined the show, but the one thing that really annoys me is Dr. Who's magic wand. It works and stops working on no basis whatsoever except to advance plot or to create a poignant moment. It can interact with matter at a distance, magnetically seal doors and rewire television circuits, but will not work in rewiring robot circuitry, for example, or to prevent a beam from collapsing.

However, I will definitely be watching future episodes to see if the show does improve or not.

I find the new Dr Who a bit hit and miss - and often missing more than it hits. There are the occasional excellent episodes - such as 'Blink' - which demonstrate how good sf tv can be... but a lot of the time it's just mildly entertaining bobbins. Such as this weekend's episode... which brings back the Daleks. Again.

Frankly I find most of the SF tv shows entertaining to watch and I have seen a number of them over the years. The majority of them do not stand up to the test of time but I think its mostly because as we have grown up we have been exposed to more and more excellent SF material in novels and movies (the good ones anyway). Still enjoy watching the old shows anyway as they bring back the memories of my childhood hunched in front of the TV enjoying the only SF shows I could find back then. Gotta keep in mind that all of these shows were efforts by individuals to break into the SF gestalt and it worked for some but not for others. Spending too much time on whether they are good shows or not at our age is probably something we should avoid and just remember them for the joy we had when watching them as kids.

For the record I was an absolute fan of Dr Who (grew up with incarnation # 4) and the Tomorrow people but also enjoyed the Gemini Man, Man from Atlantis, and various other sub par series.

Currently am enjoying the show Eureka, interesting concept and extremely humourous although not the best acting in the world.

I watched the Sci Fi Channel when it first premiered; it catered in a genuine and informed fashion to a SF/Horror/Comics fan base. I used to watch the station a lot for maybe 5 years. After the cancellation of Farscape, the station drifted more towards the kind of original programming that you would see on it's sister channel TNT. I never watch TNT, so why would I watch SciFiChannel if it looks and feels more like TNT?
I don't watch TV now in general, so it's kind of a moot point, but accidentally catching the adds for the station, and when I get promotional email from the station, I've yet to see anything that attracts my interest.
I should add that the inception of the station precedes the DVD boom, so it's likely that it ceased to draw in the same amount of viewers after people could buy all this stuff on their own. More revenue is likely to be generated by broadcasting original programming at this point regardless of how crappy it is.

Comedy SF -

Greatest American Hero - as soon as the protagonist learned to fly it started to go downhill, but sight gags in the beginning were hilarious.

Third Rock From the Sun - started great, got progressively worse as the alien characters acclimated.

I really enjoyed the Sci-Fi channel rerunning Dark Shadows back 10 - 12 - 15 years ago. It was very interesting to see who from Dark Shadows has gone on to do other things. The first Burke Devlin was the same guy who played Dharma's father in Dharma and Greg. Dana Elcar, MacGyver's handler, was the sheriff on Dark Shadows. Willie Loomis #2 was played by John Karlen, who was also Harvey Lacey, Tyne Daley's husband on Cagney & Lacey. I'm sure many of the others in this marvelous cast went on to bigger and better things, but they'll never have a warmer spot in my heart than the one they earned at Collinwood. Except for my year in Vietnam I tried to watch this show whenever I could.

Have watched about eight or ten shows of the fourth series of the new "Doctor Who." A mixed reaction to this one - the ideas range from excellent to extremely silly, often within the same episode. The Doctor is an excellent character, but the others range from average to woeful. The stories themselves are a mixed bag, too, but on the whole, entertaining without being overly intelligent.

However, what makes tips this over the edge to be an enjoyable show to me are two things. The first is the mini-documentary that is on after the show. it lasts for fifteen minutes, and shows how some stunts are done, the writer's opinions of the show, and some thoughts by the cast. This is an idea that should be more widely used for other shows, it's really neat. The other thing I like is the fact that it is the only SF show on that I am actually able to watch, considering my work hours and the lack of consideration given to SF fans by local television programmers.

Doctor Who Confidential? I thought they were about 40 mins long. Both BBC and ITV do similar behind-the-scenes programmes now - there's even one for the X-Factor.

They've cut it down to fifteen minutes for Australia, then.

And we don't "The Making of" shows over here either, so I still enjoy watching them for the novelty value, and because you occasionally see something interesting, like the construction of a rocket-car.

"Dr Who Confidential" comes in two lengths; even the BBC sometimes shows the shorter version after repeat showings.

UK opinons are divided over new "Dr Who". It has very good points - I liked the Christopher Eccleston portrayal (season 1), some of the scripting is very good, the visuals are stunning (as someone who remembers Old Who and the BBC's £5 effects budget) and some of the plots are excellent. There is also a dark side to this Doctor - the "Family of Blood" two-parter was stunning in that respect - and I am very taken with the back plot and matters of the tragic nature of the Doctor as the last Time Lord. I want to know more!

But...but...but... a lot of the above can be turned around and for everything good I've mentioned, there has been awfulness. And one thing that really, REALLY irritates me is the way that the BBC thinks that Dr Who is the last word in SF and trumpets it as such. There have been elements - and indeed, whole episodes - of Who which have been nothing but plagiarism (season 2's "The Impossible Planet" was the worst example, which shamelessly lifted stuff from "Outland", "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", "Event Horizon" and "Babylon 5" - and those were just the ones I spotted).

I was good for a couple of series of the new "Doctor Who" and it was something my boys enjoyed too. But...interest began to wane and now I haven't seen the show listed on CBC Television (our national broadcaster) for months.
Too expensive? I dunno but it doesn't seem to be available in Canada any more...

I haven't watched the earlier series of Dr. Who, so perhaps I am getting excited about the tail-end of the show.

266: Doctor Who should be starting up on CBC again in a couple of weeks. Dunno why they take so long to get it on the schedule (oh, wait, I do know - stupid hockey...)

Tardis:

"St-st-stupid hockey"? Sorry, I had trouble putting those two words together. As a hockey nut and Bruin fan for 35+ years, I bridle at the suggestion that hockey is not a sport perfectly suitable for highbrows like yers truly...

Cliff - I never got the appeal of watching sports. I kind of understand playing them, although I never have the urge to do so myself. I know lots of people who feel like you do about Bruins and Cubs (that's the ball and stick team that my friend Randy likes) and Eskimos (local pointy ball game team) and I'm happy that sports are available for those who like them, but playing a game on ice in June is just silly.

I'll grant that last point: a 72 game season is sufficient--the Stanley Cup final finishing off no later than the end of April.

I thought Canadian TV was all about hippy slacker trailer park pot growers and assorted weirdos. Is there more to it than that?

LOVE "The Trailer Park Boys".

Made with Canadian tax credits. Yippee!

274> Trailer Park Boys is one thing, but didn't our taxes pay for "The Starlost" too? We have a lot to answer for...

DVD for movies; tv for sports: whatever swimming, UNC bball, tennis, summer olympic stuff, soccer/futball is available via rabbit ears. Having hockey played in NCarolina, Florida, SoCal still seems really weird to me. Also seems (like in pro bball) that the players have outgrown the area of play. The size of today's bball pros would've probably seemed like some weird SF prophecy set hundreds of years in the future to Naismith! (though unless you grew up doing competitive swimming, i imagine it's pretty dull viewing)

Don't bring up "The Starlost", Tardis, wankers like Ian, jseger and that bunch refuse to acknowledge just how truly AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL that show was.

Try talking some sense into them, they won't bend to my superior intellect. They are likewise noncommittal when I mention "Starship Invasions". I personally don't think these people are as up on the "classics" as they pretend to be...

#277

What are the shows "The Starlost" and "Starship Invasions" about? I would like to increase my knowledge of good modern SF shows.

Oh, dear God, Rojse, you're far too gentle and vulnerable a soul to expose yourself to such Canadian drek.

Lemme just explain something about Canadian mentality--our film-makers, writers and artists are given to believe that there's something "special" or "unique" about the Canadian point of view. So we subsidize the hell out of the arts in this country, creating a "homegrown" product that is about an appalling as you can imagine. Bad TV, bad movies, bad books. If a Canuck wants to do something different, spread his/her wings and achieve success elsewhere, we call them a sellout, anti-Canadian or other horseshit like that. Paul Haggis got that treatment to some extent...

Nobody wants to admit they're mediocre, we all wanna be "great" artists.

"The Starlost" was originally conceived as a fairly big budget TV series--names like Douglas Trumbull and Harlan Ellison were originally involved and you can YouTube the presentation the producers put together to describe the series. Unfortunately, all the money fell through and the series ended up being shot on videotape, the effects were dreadful, stories worse, acting...ah, the acting. With guest stars like Walter Koenig the acting was just this side of high school musical. Again, you can YouTube excerpts, Rojse, but only at the risk of your aesthetic health.

"Starship Invasions" was a feature film made in Canada that was released shortly after "Star Wars"--fairly big name cast but, oh lordie, don't watch this one unless your bong is packed full and you've had a really, really bad day.

There, chum, I may not have increased your knowledge but, you have to admit, I've given you fair warning.

Don't listen to those other guys, they just like to be difficult...

The Italians did the best "Star Wars" rip-offs - "The Humanoid", "StarCrash", "Star Odyssey", "Cosmos: War of the Planets"... Guaranteed to make your head explode.

Wasn't Starlost the series that Harlan Ellison was so appalled by that he had his name taken off and "Cordwainer Bird" substituted? It was terrible, and I watched every bloody episode because I was so desperate for some SF on tv back then. Fortunately for my sanity, it has all faded from memory. I also watched Space:1999 in French, and I don't even speak much French.

I remember watching "Space: 1999" in French! That IS desperate.

"The Starlost" is indeed the same show you recall. I was so into SF back then I would have stared at a rock for days (without blinking) if you told me it was a meteorite. And STILL I couldn't stomach "The Starlost"...

P.S. These people have no idea how BAD Canadian TV and movies can be. "Beachcombers"? "DaVinci's Inquest"? ANY flick by Atom Egoyan.

Good grief...

I kind of liked "The Beachcombers," but I was a lot younger then. I don't think I could watch it now. I can't hack sitcoms at all now, no matter what their nationality. I liked "Due South" and "Forever Knight."

And let's be fair - Canadian TV doesn't have a monopoly on terrible programs. Sturgeon's Law applies. It's just that in our small output, they stand out.

Oh, they stand out, all right.

Like the Rocky Mountains...

Watching Space:1999 in any language is an act of desperation. Oh, how I yearn for the days of really good SF on TV. Tom Corbett and the Space Cadets, Captain Video. . . oh where are you now?

The only canadian show I have ever watched, Cliff, is some show about some people managing a diner that was shot in 2003. If could not have been a comedy, because it wasn't funny, and it could not be a drama, because there was no deep emotional issues, and it could not be anything else, because it was about as intelligent as the culture on a wet sponge, so I'm at a loss as to what the show actually was. All of the secondary characters had identical roles - slightly-retarded hillbillies unreceptive to change. I could go on, but I only watched the show twice (just to make sure I wasn't watching a dud episode the first time, and because I can be a bit slow.)

If this is what Canada exports to the world as entertainment, I feel sorry for what you have to put up with in your television viewing.

Christ knows what that film was--I sure don't.

I do NOT watch Canadian movies/TV or listen to Canadian music or read Canadian writers (with very few exceptions). There's a small group of arts administrators and cultural nationalists in this country who refuse to accept that Canadian viewers/readers have spoken and their policies have been an utter failure. Those cultural policies have not led to better literature, movies, etc., they have created an incestuous, in-bred system, where those who create works with strong "Canadian content", "reflecting treasured Canadian values", "celebrating our multi-cultural heritage" have bags of money thrown at them and everyone else must make do with scraps.

One of our ex-prime ministers has described Canada as a "nation of nations" or some inane horseshit like that. Creating exactly the kind of tribalism that has led to nothing but strife and genocide in other parts of the world. One of our provinces actually pondered setting up a separate, Sharia-based legal system for Moslem clients. Ludicrous...

287> the show you describe sounds a bit like "Corner Gas" - many people seem to think is is hilarious and I'm sure it's no worse than most American sitcoms, but I hate sitcoms of all descriptions.

A fellow sit com hater. You are welcome in my living room any day.

We love Brit humour in our house--"Young Ones", "Black Adder" and, especially, "Black Books". "Ab Fab".

Canada has never created anything CLOSE...

Oh my, speaking of Britcom, Red Dwarf was hilarious!

Never have seen it. Just didn't get the chance.

Tell me what I missed...

Oh, where to start . . .

The giant interstellar mining ship, Red Dwarf, has a terrible accident, leaving only two members of the crew alive. One is the biggest screwup/slob of all time, the other is a deeply stupid martinet. Add in a slightly bonkers ship's computer, many interesting British accents, and pad your floor, because you'll be rolling on it.

Even British sitcoms mostly don't sit well with me but I have to admit, there are some brilliant ones.

The early episodes of Red Dwarf were hysterical. I haven't seen anything after season 2 but some day I'll get them from the library or something. Helcura failed to mention the third main character, the Cat. I love the Cat.

I also love Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister, which (as a career civil servant) hit extremely close to home. The British version of The Office I found cringingly hard to watch, probably because it hit even closer to home and the humour was very black. Blackadder is brilliant. The tv series of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy was pretty good, too. The movie sucked big ones, though. The only thing I really liked about it was the casting of Arthur Dent - that guy was perfect.

"The Office", "Extras", the GREAT Ricky Gervais...

in re Radio Canada....and Canadian product..
well..it was a long time ago, and done for CBC, but i really like Glenn Gould's set of radio word symphonies about the "idea" of Canada. On the other hand, my wife couldn't listen to them as they came across as cacophony to her. I esp. liked "The Quiet in the Land" about the Mennonite communities in Manitoba, but liked the others too.

Sure better than the Guess Who w/ American Woman....but then the McGarrigles are Canadian and they're more than alright..and they've stayed in Canada..I've tried to catch them in concert for 30 yrs w/out success.

I have some of Glenn Gould's stuff on vinyl, believe it or not. Hard to find. Very odd man. CBC gave him carte blanche in their facilities, let him come in at all hours of the night to record and mix, no deadlines...freedoms artists today only dream about.

Dear me. Ricky Gervais is crap. He's about as funny as herpes. We'll have to differ there, Cliff.

For true British humour, it has to be the Carry On films. Talbot Rothwell was a genius. "Infamy, infamy! They've all got it in for me!"

Oh, and the best sitcom evah, of course: "Farty Towels".

Really, Ian? You don't like Gervais? Surprises me.

We're Basil Fawlty fans here too. My God, the episode where they're doing renovations on the hotel...hahaha...

"Red Dwarf" fell into my "funny once" category, though I still sometimes quote the robot, Kryten, when I've been proved right on something: "Engage Smug Mode."

The world seems to be divided into two sorts of people - those who find "The Office" funny and those who don't. I watched it once with my brother-in-law, one of those people you come across with whom you have lots in common but just completely fail to engage with for some unknown reason. We were both of one mind about "The Office" - "Laugh? I never thought I'd start."

On the other hand, "Extras" had its moments, and I'll forgive Gervais anything for Pat Stewart's expression as he says "You mean you're a middle-aged single man who's never watched 'Star Trek'?? Good Lord."

A recent sitcom which I have become a complete devotee of is "Father Ted": three Catholic priests on a remote Irish island: one smart but whose plans are always thwarted, one who is stupid and the third who is a total drunkard. It has a vein of surrealism a mile wide...

"Father Ted" sounds like it's right up my alley.

I love Gervais--it's the uncomfortable pauses, and the viewer is wilting with discomfort while Gervais' characters are often unaware of the awkwardness or (even better) try to blunder on, making things worse.

The Patrick Stewart episode was brilliant. Trying to sell a movie about a man who can see through women's clothing: "And you can see EVERYTHING", Stewart practically pants. Lovely the man can take the piss out of himself.

And the Ben Stiller episode (a very brave performance from a comedian I don't normally like), when Gervais' character quips: "Which one were you, Starsky or Hutch?"

Wonderful.

I also liked the Extras bit where Gervais said he didn't want to end up as a Doctor Who monster (and then of course, he did). Although sometimes Extras gets a bit cringe-making too - the bit with the Daniel Radcliffe (who plays Harry Potter) trying to pick up older women went on a bit long. I haven't seen many episodes, but I found that in a few cases it would have been funnier (at least to me) if they'd stopped a little sooner.

I can't believe no one has yet mentioned possibly the funniest sitcom ever made (IMO), "Keeping up Appearances". The Bucket woman, Hyacinth and her sisters Rose and Daisy. Poor Richard. And do any of you ever pay attention to what Onslow reads in bed? Funniest show ever.

If you have never seen it, it will be worth your while to track it down (It's out on DVD) and watch it.

Just as we got an American version of "The Office" which is even more discomforting than the original, but still wonderfully funny, we are getting a homegrown version of "Life on Mars". I thought the British original was a very intriguing idea, but being partially deef had trouble with the midlands accent. I hope the American version lasts longer than one season.

"Life on Mars" and "The Lakes" are two Brit shows that have been recommended to me lately. Hard to find in my neck of the woods.

The best British sitcom after "Fawlty Towels" was "One Foot in the Grave". "Life on Mars" was excellent. I also liked the follow-up series, "Ashes to Ashes", although most people I know didn't like it. We should be getting the second series of that next year.

Both "Life on Mars" and "Ashes to Ashes" were put together by a production company run by a man called Ashley Pharoah. Most things with his name attached are pretty good, although his most recent series, "Bonekickers", was a bit hit and miss.

Thanks for the info.

Not familiar with "One Foot In the Grave". Will watch for it...

I'm joining in the "off-topic" commentary about British shows. My family and I absolutely adore "Bless Me, Father" -- about an irascible Irish priest in the 1950s and his sweetly not-so-naive assistant. I think the show was made in the 70s or 80s, but we just bought it on DVD and we all love it.

We also love Lenny Henry in Chef! -- makes all other cooking shows seem dull as ditchwater. Henry's scintillating delivery of intelligent polysyllabic insults never palls.

And. . .I'm ducking to avoid the brickbats I feel sure are coming my way. . .speaking of good S/F on the small screen, is anyone on this thread a fan of the new BSG, Babylon 5, or the extinct series White Dwarf? Not to mention the inimitable Firefly? Those were some of the best S/F shows I've seen in 40 years. And I too still enjoy watching many of the Forever Knight episodes on DVD.

I actually think some Canadian TV is quite good. One of my Muslim students introduced me to your excellent and hilarious "Little Mosque on the Prairie" and my only regret is that it is not shown on American TV, so I can only watch it on YouTube. I urge everyone to check it out -- sweetly funny & informative in a non-preachy way.

White Dwarf? I've heard of Red Dwarf, but not White Dwarf.

New BSG is equal parts good and infuriating. Babylon 5 I always thought was bad soap opera in space. Firefly didn't last long enough to really show what it was capable of - as it was it seemed mostly cowboys in space.

Firefly was EXACTLY cowboys in space..but like a good western featured interesting characters, plot twists, humor, pathos etc. Finding that on DVD was a great pleasure.

Depends how big a fan of cowboys you are, I suppose. The only cowboy film I actually like is "Rio Bravo". And that's despite it a) starring John Wayne, b) starring Dean Martin, and c) Dean Martin and Ricky Nelson perform a duet.

>#303: geneg: my late mother LOVED "Keeping up appearances" because she could see a lot of herself in Hyacinth Bucket.

"One foot in the grave" was in the vein of British comedy in that it identified traits that most of the audience could identify with. (I suppose that's even true of 'The office', which could be why I didn't like it...) It could also make you stop dead and sober up instantly because the writers would occasionally throw in something humanly appalling, like death or violence or social breakdown - that's a little known trait of British comedy, too. (Such as when the Good's house gets vandalised in "The Good Life", an otherwise gentle comedy about proto-Greens in suburbia).

I think Rachel's getting "Red Dwarf" mixed up with the UK RPG magazine "White Dwarf", wherein David Langford used to try to raise the overall tone and the readers' collective consciousnesses by running an sf book review column - collected together by NESFA as Critical assembly.

Ian - ah, someone else who likes "Rio Grande". It's funny that so many of us appear to have similar tastes outside of our favourite literature...

I remember the Critical Mass columns in White Dwarf. In one, Dave wrote that he'd created a program to randomly generate fantasy novel titles, like Darksword of Elfbane or Dragon King of the Orc Mountains... only for a couple of novels to turn up bearing some of the titles his program had generated. Admittedly, he stole the idea from a John Sladek novel - Bugs?

"Rio Grande"?

Ian - you're right. I'm getting my Rios mixed up - "Rio Grande", Rio Bravo", "Flying down to Rio"...

"Blame it on Rio"..."Rio" (Duran Duran song)...

Actually it seems to me that a lot of sci-fi movies and what little TV I've seen draw heavily from westerns. I like Firefly a good deal because it integrates the Western clichés very effectively with the rough and ready, funky, sci-fi future.

Definitely true for a film like "Outland", which was referred to as "'High Noon' in outer space" or something similar. Also "Star Wars" (the cantina scene, gun-toting Han Solo, etc.).

Speaking of westerns, last night I watched "El Topo" again, after a twenty year interval since my last viewing. Between "Topo" and "Alphaville", it must be my week for watching incoherent, fucked up movies. The pools of bright blood in the middle of the desert, goat carcasses crucified on walls, the religious symbolism running through the rivers and streams and fountains of blood--

In terms of Jodorowski, I've seen "El Topo" and "Sante Sangre". They take a toll, I'll tell you that...

I've seen "El Topo". Well bizarre. I've also seen "The Rainbow Thief", which is like a good film made by people without a clue. I have "Sante Sangre", "Holy Mountain" and "Fando y Lis", but have yet to watch them.

Ian, I think you're too sensitive for Jodorowski. I sense a shy, introverted nature hiding inside you...

Cliff, IMHO it's impossible to confuse "Blame it on Rio" with a Dean Martin movie. The scenery is muuuucccchhhhh better!

Cliff, I don't intend to watch them sober...

Watch Holy Mountain - there's this scene where the protagonist wakes up amidst thousands of copies of himself as a crucified JC that's fantastic. I also like the recreation of the invasion of Mexico done with frogs and lizards.

El Topo is just one of those movies that you have to watch - great as a backdrop during a party. I've done this and there are times when everyone in the house is glued, silently watching. The interaction is interesting.

I still don't understand all the wrestling on the SciFi channel - I get the feeling (unconfirmed) that it's a huge money-maker for them - it probably funds most of those bad b-rated movies they produce.

I watched my first new Dr Who episode last night (it got picked up by the TIVO and there wasn't anything else recorded). The episode is/was "Blink" already mentioned. It was surprisingly good with a decent premise and story building technique. Cute girl too!

"Blink" apparently won this year's short form dramatic presentation Hugo. IMHO there were better Who episodes, but there you are. I don't recollect the BBC trumpeting this triumph from the rooftops, though.

I think the award of Hugos should be made conditional on it at least being acknowledged by the recipient. (And the BBC aren't the only culprits...)

"Blink" has been the best Dr Who episode since it restarted. I can't think of any better than it, although the one where the doctor is a master at a boarding school before WWI comes a close second.

My favourite episode I have seen so far is where the Doctor is trapped on a train with eight or so people, and an invisible alien comes in from outside and inhabits the body of a woman. The alien then starts to learn from the actions and words of all of those on the train. No high-tech special effects, but the show shows what can be done with good writing and acting.

And the scene where Doctor Who starts to mimic the woman, you think that the alien has inhabited the Doctor, and everyone is seriously discussing tossing the doctor outside to die is the best scene I've seen so far in Doctor Who.

Ah, the episode that was ripped off from an episode of "The Twilight Zone". It would have been good if it had been original.

> #323: Ian, you are thinking of the two-parter, "Human Nature"/"Family of Blood". Perhaps my favourite, but it's all down to personal choice. The things that elevated that pair of episodes out of the ordinary were the authentic (and to modern liberal sensitivities, painful) Edwardian attitudes to race and class; the foreshadowing of the First World War (and the coda, whre the Doctor and assistant revisit the child protagonist as an aging World War I veteran, which reduced me to tears); and the other coda, where the Doctor punishes the Family in ways that are quite consistent with his broadly liberal outlook but which are nonetheless horrible and utterly science-fictional (and displaying his dark side for a change, something that new Dr Who alludes to from time to time) (and not enough for me).

Is the spin-off, "Torchwood", as bad as I've heard?

Worse.

I quite like Torchwood. The first season had a bit more sex than I usually enjoy watching (especially when my kids are in the room - they're old enough I wouldn't censor it but still... eeuw) but I liked the stories and the characters. The second season seems to have eased up on the sex (so far) and I'm still enjoying the stories. Favourite so far was "Meat."

I also like the Sarah Jane Adventures, which is the other recent Who spinoff. SJA has (in addition to the intrepid Ms Smith who looks AMAZING for her age - I hope I look half that good in 10 years) a cast of teenagers who assist her so as you can imagine, it is aimed younger (younger even than Doctor Who itself). The stories have been pretty good, though.

CBC is starting the latest season of Doctor Who this week Friday.

Second season "Torchwood" was an improvement, but it started from a VERY low base.

"Plan 9 from outer space" 8-o . Tonight. On German TV. Should I use one of my precious VHS to record it or just go to bed?

>331 GirlFromIpanema: - It's so bad it's funny. One of the worst SF movies of all time.

Watch it, definitely, but don't waste a tape on it.

It's not just one of the worst SF movies, but possibly the worst ever movie made.

Eh, gene, I value my sleep --I'd rather waste a tape on it :-D. Definitely no live watching, around midnight.
It's on the french/german "culture channel" ARTE... dunno what they've been drinking...
...or does this mean that the film has become part of the Cultural Canon?
*eeek*

Oh, it's definitely part of the "Cultural Canon". Well, you can always use the tape again if you have to. I was just trying to save "precious VHS tape". I don't know. Do they allow you to have more than one VHS tape at a time in Deutschland?

I will be MOST anxious to hear your thoughts on this movie.

Have a happy, but necessarily appalling, viewing experience. This movie requires close watching to get all the SFX.

And then watch Tim Burton's "Ed Wood"...

"Do they allow you to have more than one VHS tape at a time in Deutschland? "

*snerk*
Oh,they do, but the problem is rather that tapes are becoming a rare commodity in shops and expensive, too...- I am looking for a DVD-recorder/cable-receiver, but until I get one, the tapes will have to do. And I am not sure I want to delete Contact in the process of finding space for Plan 9 from outer space...

Ooooohhh, Contact, one of my favorite movies of the first contact type. It brings tears to my eyes every time I watch it.

I've never been able to watch Tom Skerritt since. He was just so evil.

Now, Big Bad Mama! That was a Tom Skerritt movie!

"Contact", I must confess, is on my "Ten Worst" list of SF films.

Absolutely dreadful. The obscenities I screamed at THAT one....

Tom Skerritt is one of those natural actors, like Jeff Bridges, immediately engaging. Remember him in the "Picket Fences" TV series from way back when?

339 "Contact", I must confess, is on my "Ten Worst" list of SF films.

We can cancel each other out then, since I'd be inclined to put it somewhere on my "Twenty-Five Best" list> :P

But I agree about Tom Skerritt. I first saw him in Alien and I liked to dislike/like him in Contact.

OK, "Contact" survived, it's entertaining enough, but "Jarhead" had to go (liked the book, but it didn't work as a film for me). Watched the first 10 minutes this morning. What the...? *thud*

I liked the book JARHEAD but so far have given the movie a miss (and I love war flicks)...

To me "Contact" was like this New Age first contact flick...when she meets her father on the beach...sorry, kid, I had to be restrained from heaving the TV.

There is nothing more revolting than when a Hollywood film tries to play with sentiment. The result, inevitably, is treacle, the suspension of disbelief chucked out the window, along with the screenwriter's higher brain functions...

I expect I had a different perspective on those scenes since my father died when I was seven. The alien presented itself a someone important to her in a positive way, someone she longed to see. While it may have treaded close to overly sentimental, it completely fit the story.

Even without that scene, I thought it was an intelligent and engaging movie. Oh well, tastes differ. I like some New Age music too! ;)

I lost my father at a tender age too and still found the scene contrived and manipulative, rather than affecting.

I'm not a big fan of Jody Foster and Robert Zemeckis was the director, hardly one of my faves.

"From the man who brought you 'Forrest Gump...'"

Say no more...

Well, if you don't much like one of the lead actors, that can ruin things. I know I can't objectively judge Minority Report. It's funny, I hadn't thought too much one way or another about that scene until you brought it up. The rest of the film had so many scenes I liked.

I know what you mean re: "Minority Report".

Love Phil Dick, hate Tom Cruise and Spielberg--how can I fairly judge the film? I was predisposed to dislike it...and did. Very expensive-looking, neat gadgets, startling visuals, very little to do with the Dick story.

For me, the scene when Jody Foster is sitting out at the Array and realizes she is listening to a pattern originating in deep space and the ensuing scramble to the headquarters is worth the price of admission. But then, those are the kinds of things I like in movies, those emotional recognitions.

Have to agree with geneg about that scene at the array. Also, I like films where they take science seriously (even if it moves towards the speculative like in this case). Must put the film on the TBV pile again...--provided I survive Plan 9.
(No more TV tonight, I am off to the "Long Night at the Exhibition" in town).

How does it compare to the Sagan novel?

i wasn't a huge fan of Contact - but i didn't regret spending the money in the theater..but i am a Jodie Foster fan..someday i might even see her in Taxi Driver..

"Taxi Driver", dear God.

That one STILL puts the whammy into me...

>#344: Clif said "I lost my father at a tender age too and still found the scene contrived and manipulative, rather than affecting."

I know what you mean. About a year after I lost my parents, I was reduced to tears by a UK Cancer Research advert that worked on the theme of "(S)He should be here to see this", with a lot of imagery based on the departed being seen as imagined reflections in mirrors - but neither of my parents were lost to cancer, so whilst I admired the way this advert hit all the buttons, I despised them for making it hit my buttons when they weren't even active. Worthy though they are, the advert so upset me that now I cold-shoulder them and give what little money I can spare to other charitable causes instead...

If a scene is generally moving, no problem. There's a moment in "Reds" that just sends me every time. But it's a LITTLE thing. Not weepy music and the sense that my heart strings aren't being tugged so much as TWANGED.

I laughed out loud at various points of "Titanic" and "E.T.", earning the ire of everyone around me...

#353

I could never take Titanic seriously after reading the MAD magazine satire of the movie. The satire was better written, more engaging, more entertaining than the movie, and did not have about two hours of padding to the central plot. And it was extremely funny too. "We've got an old relic here to tell you about the other old relic we have..."

God bless MAD. I recall a "2001" parody that was a scream too...

Ah yes - the '2001' parody:

Heywood Floyd: "I've eaten so much food already, I may throw up."
Space hostess: "There is no 'up' in space."
Floyd: "All right - I may throw out."

I also remember their Spaghetti Western parody: "I'm The Man With No Name. My friends call me 'The'."

I also remember going to see "Superman 2" during the school holidays when it first came out. All the kids were doubled up in laughter as the supervillains threw buses through skyscrapers and generally caused mayhem and destruction and carnage. But at the end, where the camera dwells on Old Glory fluttering bravely in the breeze, and the camera pulled back to reveal that it is the flag from the top of the White house being restored to its rightful place by the Man of (American) Steel, myself and precisely one other person laughed in the whole cinema...

#356

You can tell who the two most intelligent people in the cinema were, then.

Dr Who is currently running on Friday nights on CBC at 9:00 pm. Nice time slot for it as Torchwood is on the Space channel at 10:00 Fridays so I get 2 full hours of SF. Nice. And I quite like the new Dr Who quite a bit. I started watching when Jon Pertwee was involved and then basically grew up in the Tom Baker years. I've seen both good and bad Dr's over the years but so far I am quite enjoying the irreverance and dark aspects of the new one.

I am watching a sitcom called "The Big Bang Theory". It's not exactly SF, but it contains enough references to SF for me to mention it here, because I can appreciate the references - some of the best examples include purchasing a life-sized replica of H. G. Well's time machine, going to a "Planet of the Apes" movie marathon in gorilla suits, or trying to blow eachother's heads up with telekinesis because it worked in a 1950's B-grade SF movie.

The outer limits (new series) is being shown every day at 11am (UK TV Virgin 1), I have a sky+ so I record it, currently near the end of the first season. Some of them are good and some of them are very derideable. What are your favorite and least favourite episodes?

I found "Flash Gordon: The Original TV Series" for two dollars. It's probably the only thing that the DVD has going for it.

I tried watching it. I expected it to be bad, but the first episode was completely awful. Flash Gordon and crew travel in time to stop a bomb going off in 1953. The plot had as many holes as a broken fishing net; I couldn't even finish watching it. It wasn't even enjoyable as a bad SF, and I have watched several awful movies before this and gotten some unintended laughs out of that.

If someone tells me that there is a decent episode in the first series, I will try that, but otherwise, I am not going there again.

RoboCop: The Television Series. Robocop is on patrol in Detroit City, stopping the bad guys from doing bad guy things. It's basically a bad cop show combined with bad science fiction - stereotyped, under-developed characters, cliched plot, and logical inconsistencies. But for all of that, the show remains fun to watch, in a campy sort of way.

Oh, Commander Cash is a real highlight, and did not get nearly enough time in the show. "I arrest you, in the name of Justice and a Strong Economy". Hilarious.

Oh, I loved the RoboCop television series. It was sort of like the Batman (in being campy and self-conciously comic-booky) of cyborg cop shows - or something like that.

And, yeah, Commander Cash was cool. My favorite commercial was the one for the "Pet Recycling Center"...

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/tv-dvd/shout-factory-maxing-out-18578

"Through Warner Home Video, Shout! Factory has acquired the U.S. and Canadian distribution rights for the 1980s futuristic cyberpunk series “Max Headroom” and the 1999-2001 sitcom “The Norm Show,” starring Norm Macdonald."

"Shout! Factory has a “Max Headroom” complete-series DVD set slated for August, according to a spokesperson. Episodes are being transferred from their original elements to provide the best quality, and Shout! Factory is planning a robust range of extras for the set. Bonus content may include the original U.K. telefilm 20 Minutes Into the Future, upon which the series is based, though nothing has been confirmed. Max Headroom also appeared in a series of Coca-Cola commercials in the 1980s, raising speculation such content may also be fodder for bonus material, but Shout! Factory said planning the extras is in the early stage."

All this, and no one mentions Babylon 5?

"All this, and no one mentions Babylon 5?"

Because the thread title said the good, the bad, and the ugly, and forget the good. I put Babylon 5 in the good catagory myself, so I went along with the posters request and didn't add it to the thread! :-)

#365

The "Good SF Television" thread is here: http://www.librarything.com/topic/61855

And, yes, "Babylon 5" is mentioned as a great show.

#367 & 366

My bad.

That's what I get for posting while on antihistamines...! :\

Feel free to add your thoughts to the other topic - I've been using it as a springboard for SF television recommendations - I've just started watching "Babylon 5" on the basis of several recommendations in that thread.

Don't post there just for me, though - I am sure that others are interested in recommendations for good SF television, too - good shows are rather hard to come by, SF or not.

I've been watching the recent "Flash Gordon" series. It's growing on me. It's a bit like a high school play written by someone who'd heard of Flash Gordon but got all the details wrong. Most of the cast are bad - especially the one playing Princess Aura, who can manage petulance and, er, that's it. And yet, it has a certain charm and is reasonably entertaining.

#369 et al.

I grew up in the 60's, and remember the last season of Twilight Zone when I was very young. Irwin Allen was the King of TV Skiffy during grade school, and having been a precocious brat who's father and older brother read Classic SF (and were well versed in SF films- Forbidden Planet being a favorite), I watched Allens junk out of desperation for anything that even remotely had an SF theme.

The sad thing about Irwin Allen, he really did believe he was producing serious science fiction. The camp factor inherent in his productions was firmly entrenched in the serial SF of the thirties. "All form, no substance" as Spock said in Squire of Gothos.

Star Trek was a godsend at the time. Imagine being in a dessert, but not realize you have been, and discovering an oasis. Trek was an oasis!

Sadly, the 70's saw the rise of countless unremarkable TV productions that returned to the "Western with a Ray Gun" school of SF. Space 1999, Buck Rogers, Logan's Run, Planet of the Apes, the original Battlestar Galactica to name but a few. TV has suffered from poor production and mindless slumming for decades. If Hollywood can only rarely produce a memorable Comedy, then the odds are a decent SF show will be even rarer.

With the advent of Star Wars, things began to change. Good SF (though I do classify Star Wars more as Space Fantasy) began to be a money making proposition, as all those kids in my age group, were given the chance to produce what they wanted to watch. Lucas, Spielberg, Strazinski, and Cameron are my peers (same age). We watched Lost in Space as kids, and can now say "No. THIS is what we wanted".

Er, I think you mean "desert"...

Wow.

That won spelling error simplee trashed my intire poast.

O welll...