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1lriley
Back in 2007 Barack ran his campaign from the left and proclaimed all kinds of new and bold ideas. It was Hillary Clinton back then taking that more moderate and centrist lane of the road. Barack then moved to the center after he was elected. It didn't matter to Republicans--they behaved towards him like they would any self proclaimed leftist whether or not he stayed to the left or went to the center and they behaved towards him like he was not just any ordinary POTUS but like he was a black man or someone inferior. Obama was kind of like a version of Neville Chamberlain---he tried his hardest to appease the republicans and it worked for them. They completely fucked over his presidency. It didn't work well for the major part of the population and since then and since all that appeasement we've been living with all these tea party jerks who got their wet dream in 2016 when they underachieved Trump over the finish line via the electoral college.
So now here's Barack again telling democrats not to go bold--to go moderate. So he went bold and won and Hillary went moderate and lost (twice--once to him in the primaries and once to Trump in an election). I don't really fucking get it but I'll tell you one thing I wouldn't take his advice on this. I don't think he's as savvy about this as a lot of people think he is. A lot of his people working with Buttigieg by the way and Buttigieg is not very well liked by black people. How the fuck is that going to work out? If Hilllary was more liked but couldn't turn out Detroit and Milwaukee--how will Mayor Pete do who is not liked much at all? It's like WTF!
These trips down memory lane by democrats are harmful. It's not the past we should worry about more.....it's the fucking future. Feel goody stuff sucks. Don't make idols or Gods out of these people from the past. Know what you want--like things---like health care, climate, taxing the shit out of billionaires and get a candidate who is going to get as much as possible. The positions candidates take do matter. Don't sell short before we even get started.
So now here's Barack again telling democrats not to go bold--to go moderate. So he went bold and won and Hillary went moderate and lost (twice--once to him in the primaries and once to Trump in an election). I don't really fucking get it but I'll tell you one thing I wouldn't take his advice on this. I don't think he's as savvy about this as a lot of people think he is. A lot of his people working with Buttigieg by the way and Buttigieg is not very well liked by black people. How the fuck is that going to work out? If Hilllary was more liked but couldn't turn out Detroit and Milwaukee--how will Mayor Pete do who is not liked much at all? It's like WTF!
These trips down memory lane by democrats are harmful. It's not the past we should worry about more.....it's the fucking future. Feel goody stuff sucks. Don't make idols or Gods out of these people from the past. Know what you want--like things---like health care, climate, taxing the shit out of billionaires and get a candidate who is going to get as much as possible. The positions candidates take do matter. Don't sell short before we even get started.
2John5918
>1 lriley:
In more general terms I think you're right. During the Brexit referendum, the Remain camp ran a very defensive campaign based on refuting some of the lies of the Leave campaign, which basically allowed Leave to set the negative agenda while Remain appeared to accept that agenda and tentatively say, "But it's not quite as bad as they say, and we could tinker with it and make it just about acceptable". Where was the bold and confident message that the EU is a good thing, greatly to our benefit? Such a message doesn't need to play catch-up refuting each individual lie because it sets its own attractive and exciting agenda.
Let's hope we see a bold confident positive agenda set by the Democrats, not cautiously trying to modify a far right agenda.
In more general terms I think you're right. During the Brexit referendum, the Remain camp ran a very defensive campaign based on refuting some of the lies of the Leave campaign, which basically allowed Leave to set the negative agenda while Remain appeared to accept that agenda and tentatively say, "But it's not quite as bad as they say, and we could tinker with it and make it just about acceptable". Where was the bold and confident message that the EU is a good thing, greatly to our benefit? Such a message doesn't need to play catch-up refuting each individual lie because it sets its own attractive and exciting agenda.
Let's hope we see a bold confident positive agenda set by the Democrats, not cautiously trying to modify a far right agenda.
3lriley
#2--there is always going to be negative from the opposition. I think one of problems with voters in the United States is they get swept up in the personalities involved and the issues kind of get lost. The Obama who ran in 2007 became kind of a larger than life character and he still is but you can't be all things to all people and before you worry about winning over those who didn't vote for you....you should spend your time working on the agendas of those who did vote for you. I don't think the Republican party has that problem. With them it's more like 'you lost, sucks to be you, we're doing things our way and if you don't like it....too bad'. That's why the Democratic nominee should be clear on how they stand on issues and not be maybe this, maybe that. When they win they should really try to do what they said they were going to do.
We do need a bold confident positive agenda. There should not be any pussyfooting around about climate change, wealth disparity, equal rights and health care. All these things and more are in dire need of fixing. Obama talked about hope--that was good---he just didn't do nearly enough about it. I don't want the democratic nominee to try to follow exactly in his tracks because it wasn't good enough and it's partly why we're at where we are now with Trump the clown in the White House.
We do need a bold confident positive agenda. There should not be any pussyfooting around about climate change, wealth disparity, equal rights and health care. All these things and more are in dire need of fixing. Obama talked about hope--that was good---he just didn't do nearly enough about it. I don't want the democratic nominee to try to follow exactly in his tracks because it wasn't good enough and it's partly why we're at where we are now with Trump the clown in the White House.
4lriley
Just as an example the moderates running for the democratic nomination are fighting against medicare for all. They talk about those for medicare for all taking choice away from people already with health insurance but that's crap as democratic congresswoman Jayapal from Washington points out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBQasfA2MO0
It will raise taxes for sure but Sanders and Warren have plans for putting a lot of the brunt of that on the very wealthy. As well those already with health insurance will not have their health insurance plans anymore but will have improved health coverage and no longer have to pay health care premiums--their taxes might go up but they will save more money not needing to pay their premiums and everyone will be covered--not just most. People like Biden and Buttigieg are bullshitting people with their fear mongering. I'm sorry for Barack--Obamacare was his signature accomplishment but you know what it was compromised and we can do a lot better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBQasfA2MO0
It will raise taxes for sure but Sanders and Warren have plans for putting a lot of the brunt of that on the very wealthy. As well those already with health insurance will not have their health insurance plans anymore but will have improved health coverage and no longer have to pay health care premiums--their taxes might go up but they will save more money not needing to pay their premiums and everyone will be covered--not just most. People like Biden and Buttigieg are bullshitting people with their fear mongering. I'm sorry for Barack--Obamacare was his signature accomplishment but you know what it was compromised and we can do a lot better.
5RickHarsch
Living in a country with Medicare for All, I can tell you how it works. It is accepted as a legitimate right and taxes are high. However the word 'tax' does not have the pejorative meaning here. Everyone has to pay for their pension plan and m medical care. If they can't, the state does. The problem is that with what is being called neoliberalism spreading with the EU across the continent, more companies and even the government are figuring way to get people to pay for their own 'taxes'. For instance in an economy that was badly hurt by the confluence of joining the EU and going euro and 2008, there is a government plan for small business start ups. You get 4000€ (maybe more or less by now) start up, but have to pay near 400€ a month for pension and medical immediately; you pay the 4000 back after a year, or begin paying it back. The result is predictable: an incredible number of SMEs on the books, but most of these entrepreneurs are poor folk who go bankrupt rapidly. Small stores change owners and/or business generally within a maximum of 2 years.
The worst of it is that university educated people are hired on condition they get one of these business and are paid as contractors, so the business--say, a travel agency for instance--doesn't pay these expenses, just a bit higher salary. Don't like it? Fuck off. The main problem is that this process ERODES the idea of the legitimacy of the taxes.
The worst of it is that university educated people are hired on condition they get one of these business and are paid as contractors, so the business--say, a travel agency for instance--doesn't pay these expenses, just a bit higher salary. Don't like it? Fuck off. The main problem is that this process ERODES the idea of the legitimacy of the taxes.
6John5918
Democratic candidates reject Obama’s warning of going too far left (Guardian)
Democratic 2020 presidential candidates have rejected criticism from former president Barack Obama, after he warned the field of White House hopefuls not to veer too far to the left because it would alienate voters...
“The average American doesn’t think we have to completely tear down the system and remake it. And I think it’s important for us not to lose sight of that,” Obama said.
Addressing Obama’s comments over the weekend, Sanders told a forum in Long Beach: “I’m not tearing down the system.”
“When I talk about health care being a human right and ending the embarrassment of America being the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care for every man, woman and child, that’s not tearing down the system,” he said, according to the New York Times. “That’s doing what we should have done 30 years ago”...
Democratic 2020 presidential candidates have rejected criticism from former president Barack Obama, after he warned the field of White House hopefuls not to veer too far to the left because it would alienate voters...
“The average American doesn’t think we have to completely tear down the system and remake it. And I think it’s important for us not to lose sight of that,” Obama said.
Addressing Obama’s comments over the weekend, Sanders told a forum in Long Beach: “I’m not tearing down the system.”
“When I talk about health care being a human right and ending the embarrassment of America being the only major country on earth that does not guarantee health care for every man, woman and child, that’s not tearing down the system,” he said, according to the New York Times. “That’s doing what we should have done 30 years ago”...
7lriley
#6--truly people have short memories. What Sanders says is correct. It's not really a wild idea at all and FWIW Richard Nixon pushed for medicare for all back in the 70's and if I remember correctly he made at least 2 attempts to get it through congress. Biden and Buttigieg are on the wrong side of Richard Nixon and what particularly irks me about Buttigieg is 6 months ago before he found his middle lane he was in the left lane and calling for medicare for all. He knows the truth--he just changed lanes is all because he wasn't going to move Sanders or Warren voters and he's being deliberately deceitful now which means to me he's no good.
8John5918
On being bold and positive: it seems the Labour party in UK has decided to go down that path, presenting a bold and positive manifesto for the upcoming election.
General election 2019: Labour launches 'radical' manifesto (BBC)
The Labour manifesto: bold pledges for anxious times (Guardian)
Labour’s 2019 general election manifesto, launched on Thursday by Jeremy Corbyn, is its most radical in more than 35 years. It will strike a chord with millions who want categorical change in Britain. The chord will be loudest with those who have seen life chances stall and fracture, and communities weaken, during the fiscally strangulated years that have followed the financial crash. It will ring out, too, for those who want inequality reversed, taxes increased to renew public services and the climate crisis placed at the centre of public policy.
The manifesto raises the bar. Its ambitions match the seriousness of the times. The green agenda is the single most important pledge, an overarching imperative. But it is not the only issue the manifesto confronts in bold terms...
Risky, of course, but let's hope it works.
General election 2019: Labour launches 'radical' manifesto (BBC)
The Labour manifesto: bold pledges for anxious times (Guardian)
Labour’s 2019 general election manifesto, launched on Thursday by Jeremy Corbyn, is its most radical in more than 35 years. It will strike a chord with millions who want categorical change in Britain. The chord will be loudest with those who have seen life chances stall and fracture, and communities weaken, during the fiscally strangulated years that have followed the financial crash. It will ring out, too, for those who want inequality reversed, taxes increased to renew public services and the climate crisis placed at the centre of public policy.
The manifesto raises the bar. Its ambitions match the seriousness of the times. The green agenda is the single most important pledge, an overarching imperative. But it is not the only issue the manifesto confronts in bold terms...
Risky, of course, but let's hope it works.
