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1Limelite
I'm going to dispense with Chair and Min. Lead. opening statements from today because the Chair's were largely biographical and closed hearing testimony summaries of both witnesses and the Min. Lead.'s is the usual debunked propaganda and twisted attacks on the legitimacy of the inquiry and the credibility of the evidence that all Americans have heard in live time be confirmed and corroborated.
Onward.
David Holmes Opening Statement
--------------------------------------
A substantive summary of his closed door testimony in which he recollects in precise detail key events regarding Amb. Sondland's activities in Ukraine, including the restaurant phone call; being locked out of Sondland's one-on-one "no note takers" meeting with Ukrainian top adviser to Pres. Z., Yermak (sp?); his own (Holmes) notes in meetings between Sondland and Pres. Z; the quid pro.
What impresses listener is the observant recall of detail in his testimony. This man, unlike Sondland, is an impressive note-taker.
Fiona Hill Opening Statement
---------------------------------
Three thrusts: 1) No doubt there was a quid pro quo for Trump's personal benefit and harmful to national security.
2) BOMBSHELL indictment of Republicans who promulgate and perpetuate KNOWN Russian propaganda -- the false "Ukraine did it" election interference tale promoted by Trump, Giuliani, Fox News, Nunes, Jordan, and other Trumpist actors. She demands that the Republican inquisitors refrain from engaging in Russian propaganda when questioning her. She scolds the Republicans for pursuing and promoting false narratives which are devisive and serve Russian interests, while undermining US self-interest.
3) Russian foreign intelligence is now ramping up attacks against our 2020 elections and Republicans and Democrts must unite to defeat them.
Goldman Questioning of Witnesses
---------------------------------------
Serves questions alternatively to both witnesses on restaurant phone call; on quid pro quo. Zeroes in on FACT that Ukrainian meddling in election is Putin's spawned falsehood; Holmes makes points of several reasons how the lie is harmful to Ukraine and US security; Hill warns of danger that the lie has gained traction in US due to "useful idiots'" efforts, causing lie to obtain wide circulation and "believability" in minds of susceptible. In effect, certain elements are doing the work of Russian foreign intelligence ambitions in undermining faith of Americans in their government and institutions.
Hill indicts Giuliani's smear campaign against Yovanovitch, calling his activities as "explosive" "dangerous" and likely to "blow up" resulting in great harm to US interests. She communicated her concerns to Bolton whose remark that Rudy is a hand grenade prompted this explanation by her of what Bolton meant by using that description.
Holmes talks about list Sondland gave to Ukrainan official with "list of names on it" -- that no one (including him) beyond Sondland knows who is on it. Sondland reports them to be names of people who could help Pres. Z. in anti-corruption efforts.
Turn to Biden allegations pushed by Giuliani and pursued by Trump in July 25th call. Focuses on code word "Burisma." Both testify they understood it meant "Bidens" and anyone in State Dept. involved with Ukraine was aware and understood the linkage.
Turn to "anti-corruption investigations" code phrase. Initially, Sondland and Volker were not included to attend meetings, in WH where Bolton cut it off when Sondland said Pres. Z. and Pres. T were to have personal meeting. after personal requests from their offices. Hill gives detailed summary of end of meeting and relays Bolton request to stay back and report later to what she overhears after Bolton left. She relayed her info. Bolton told her to go to lawyers, "and you tell them I am not involved in this (the Giuliani/Three Amigo machinations)." She did that.
Turn to the hold. Again, Holmes agrees with Goldman's characterization about the famous 2+2=4 equation, meaning there was assuredly a quid pro quo for Pres. Z. meeting with Pres. T., and that was dirt on Biden.
RECESS
Onward.
David Holmes Opening Statement
--------------------------------------
A substantive summary of his closed door testimony in which he recollects in precise detail key events regarding Amb. Sondland's activities in Ukraine, including the restaurant phone call; being locked out of Sondland's one-on-one "no note takers" meeting with Ukrainian top adviser to Pres. Z., Yermak (sp?); his own (Holmes) notes in meetings between Sondland and Pres. Z; the quid pro.
What impresses listener is the observant recall of detail in his testimony. This man, unlike Sondland, is an impressive note-taker.
Fiona Hill Opening Statement
---------------------------------
Three thrusts: 1) No doubt there was a quid pro quo for Trump's personal benefit and harmful to national security.
2) BOMBSHELL indictment of Republicans who promulgate and perpetuate KNOWN Russian propaganda -- the false "Ukraine did it" election interference tale promoted by Trump, Giuliani, Fox News, Nunes, Jordan, and other Trumpist actors. She demands that the Republican inquisitors refrain from engaging in Russian propaganda when questioning her. She scolds the Republicans for pursuing and promoting false narratives which are devisive and serve Russian interests, while undermining US self-interest.
3) Russian foreign intelligence is now ramping up attacks against our 2020 elections and Republicans and Democrts must unite to defeat them.
Goldman Questioning of Witnesses
---------------------------------------
Serves questions alternatively to both witnesses on restaurant phone call; on quid pro quo. Zeroes in on FACT that Ukrainian meddling in election is Putin's spawned falsehood; Holmes makes points of several reasons how the lie is harmful to Ukraine and US security; Hill warns of danger that the lie has gained traction in US due to "useful idiots'" efforts, causing lie to obtain wide circulation and "believability" in minds of susceptible. In effect, certain elements are doing the work of Russian foreign intelligence ambitions in undermining faith of Americans in their government and institutions.
Hill indicts Giuliani's smear campaign against Yovanovitch, calling his activities as "explosive" "dangerous" and likely to "blow up" resulting in great harm to US interests. She communicated her concerns to Bolton whose remark that Rudy is a hand grenade prompted this explanation by her of what Bolton meant by using that description.
Holmes talks about list Sondland gave to Ukrainan official with "list of names on it" -- that no one (including him) beyond Sondland knows who is on it. Sondland reports them to be names of people who could help Pres. Z. in anti-corruption efforts.
Turn to Biden allegations pushed by Giuliani and pursued by Trump in July 25th call. Focuses on code word "Burisma." Both testify they understood it meant "Bidens" and anyone in State Dept. involved with Ukraine was aware and understood the linkage.
Turn to "anti-corruption investigations" code phrase. Initially, Sondland and Volker were not included to attend meetings, in WH where Bolton cut it off when Sondland said Pres. Z. and Pres. T were to have personal meeting. after personal requests from their offices. Hill gives detailed summary of end of meeting and relays Bolton request to stay back and report later to what she overhears after Bolton left. She relayed her info. Bolton told her to go to lawyers, "and you tell them I am not involved in this (the Giuliani/Three Amigo machinations)." She did that.
Turn to the hold. Again, Holmes agrees with Goldman's characterization about the famous 2+2=4 equation, meaning there was assuredly a quid pro quo for Pres. Z. meeting with Pres. T., and that was dirt on Biden.
RECESS
2Limelite
Part B
Strange. . .witnesses return to hearing room, but no members of the committee have. The dais is empty. The norm is that the witnesses are the last to enter and be seated. After short interval, the witnesses get up and leave. Looks like the voting recess isn't over because the votes are not over.
Sidebar
---------
Nunes
-------
Wants to know if witnesses know certain characters he implies were involved in pro-Clinton activities in 2016 election. They don.t
Turns to Christopher Steels, trying to link Hill to Steel as if it were a crime when they both were working intelligence people. She had no contact with him in 2016.
Turns to trying to link "rabbit hole" Steele dossiers and Hill in another debunked conspiracy. Hill declines.
Castor
-------
Establishes her last day in NSC July 19th in effort to dissociate her from first hand knowledge of any events thereafter. Hill was not in favor of the 7/25 call and that Bolton also against because felt unprepared and no agenda for full discussion established.
Turns to foreign assistance review of aid being in the works for months. Hadn't (hasn't?) taken place.
Turns to Volker for character affirmation.
Turns to Sondland. Hill sees Sondland's portfolio legitimately extended to Ukraine, pointing out EU financial and humanitarian assitance to that country. Hill had concerns about Sondland's role since it ramped afteer Yovanovitch pushed out. She confronted him. He said, "I'm in charge of Ukraine. I'm here to make deals. (to make meeting between Pres. and Trump) I've been given a very broad portfolio." She asked who put him in charge. He said, "The president." He told her that he reported to Trump, Mulvaney, and Pompeo. "Who else do I need to report to?" She reaffirms Sondland "very firm" about who appointed him. She affirms presidential right to remove any ambassador, but concerned by the method (character smear), and concerned about the alternative foreign policy track. She related her concerns (esp. about smear campaign) to Phil Rico, David Hale, and Dep. Sec. Sullivan (Amb. to Russia).
Hill opposed arming Ukraine with Javelins initially because of their ill-preparedness to handle them and sustainability of military. Assured herself after more investigation and changed her mind.
Turns to Holmes.
Asks, "What's view from field of Javelins." He answers, "They're an important Russian deterrent." Elicits"Yes" when asks if Amb. Taylor enthusiastic proponent.
Nunes speaks
Asks about former parliamentarian and journalist (Levshenko --name?) trying to concoct conspiracy about him providing the Black Ledger. Holmes says it's credible. Nunes attempts to accuse Mueller didn't use it because he didn't find it so. Nunes tries to say BL only purpose to undermine Trump. Holmes disagrees. He never told me that. He was only interested in exposing corruption. Nunes picks up Steele dossier as if it were similar to Trump's turning to foreign nationalities to dig up dirt on opponents. Neither think it appropriate for politicians to do so. Therefore, not appropriate for Trump. No attempt by Nunes to draw the distinction that Trump bribed a head of state for that info, and an intelligence agent simply gathering info without bribing anyone.
Castor speaks
Brings up Orban, Pres Hungary. Hill refuses to speak about head of state meetings.
Talking about delegation to attend Pres. Z inauguration. Hill says she is one who recommended Perry take lead because of his deep knowledge of energy and energy a big and important issue in Ukraine because of Russian manipulation of Ukrainian pipelines to European mkts.
Nunes speaks
Dec 2015 (Holmes not on station then) brings up then interest in Burisma corruption. Neither can corroborate $3M to Biden accounts. Nunes goes on and on about incidents that have nothing to do with inquiry and only with Republican false narrative about Biden corruption. Neither Hill nor Holmes know about any of the cockamamie business.
Nunes wants to know if they briefed Trump on all those briefings. Hill, says, "You obviously don't know that that's not how briefings take place. Subjects are briefed when they raise issues and we brief on those."
Castor speaks
Sondland. Some sort of coffee he had with Hill. Hill claims it's a fabrication. "We don't have coffee because we dont have coffee machines. He's conflating a CO coffee date in 2018 and a meeting with Vindman and Ukrainians where there was coffee."
Hill testifies their relationship was testy. He wasn't coordinating with us beause he wasn't informing us of any meetings. He said he was communicating with Mulvaney, Trump, and Bolton. He was correct, our missions had diverged. He was involved in promoting personal political politics and was instructed to do that by Trump. (BINGO!) Hill told him, I think this is going to blow up. And here we are."
So! We have confirmed by Hill TWO separate channels involved in incompatible missions in Ukraine. One domestic and personal (Sondland's) and one national and policy oriented, not domestic politics (Bolton's).
Turns to Lt. Col. Hill: "I did NOT convey to Morrison any dissatisfaction with Vindman!" Said, "I was concerned about how things were trending in Ukraine foreign policy. I was concerned that as a military man that Vindman would not have expertise in dealing with non-military issues, like the personal political trend. Morrison did."
"Julu 10th Lt. Col. V. was justifiably alarmed with increasingly political tending in that meeting."
Holmes $3B in aid since 2014. EU nations have provided combined $12B.
Castor, "Do you think that information is what the administration wanted?" SURPRISE!
Both have no idea what reaction to aid facts could have been.
Biden speaks
To Hill, "Are you aware of Reublican implications that Lt. Col. V. has divided loyalties?" She responds that she thinks that is deplorable.
Followed by extremely detailed recollection of her stay-behind meeting that led Bolton to go to Eisenburg.
Jordan rants
"Why didn't you bring it up." The second time Jordan has opened his questioning of a witness without identifying the subject, using "it." Follows by hammering Holmes about people he told about restaurant call. Holmes visibly grins at the performance. Holmes gets chance to provide his personal timeline and makes it clear that he (Holmes) followed the chain of command. It's not his job to follow up what his supervisor (Taylor) does or doesn't do/inform.
Jordan continues to try to hammer Holmes and constantly interrupts his attempts to reply. "There was nodding agreement that everyone knew Trump was talking about quid pro quo." Jordan makes an ass out of himmself persisting in rudely cutting off answer he doesn't like, which is the truth. Jordan crashes, burns dies, as Schiff has to gavel him until he shuts up, jis time long-expired.
Himes
Sides with Hill who agrees that Nunes' "Russian hoax" talking point that originated with Trump (quotes him) is against our national security.
Ukrainian Amb. op-ed and about candidate Trump's public remark, "Ukraine would rather be with Russia," comment. Goes on to discuss distinction in another article by Volker between what Ukrainians did after "betting on the wrong horse," and what the Russians did by fixing the horse race so their horse would win.
Ratcliffe rants
Republicans not Democrats were first to raise issue about Russian interference.
Asks Holmes about overheard phone call and tries to make big deal that Trump didn't keep talking about his Ukrainian bribery scheme. Like Jordan, he is belligerent and interrupts. Ratcliffe trying to make a molehill out of a mountain by highlighting Sweden portion of conversation, which Holmes already testified he heard nothing of because Trump lowered his voice or Sondland modulated his phone. That attempt to create a diversion didn't go well.
Sewell speaks
Wants to know about harrassment and threats. Asks if Hill is a never Trumper. Hill replies as a non-partisan, as are all my colleagues, I don't know what that means.
I need a lunch break.
Strange. . .witnesses return to hearing room, but no members of the committee have. The dais is empty. The norm is that the witnesses are the last to enter and be seated. After short interval, the witnesses get up and leave. Looks like the voting recess isn't over because the votes are not over.
Sidebar
---------
Giuliani brags he's still pushing for Ukraine to implicate Biden, even as Trump faces impeachment. "I was in contact with two Ukrainian officials today," Giuliani told Glenn Beck on Wednesday.https://www.salon.com/2019/11/21/giuliani-brags-hes-still-pushing-for-ukraine-to...
Giuliani said that he pressed Solomon (conservative columnist John Solomon, formerly of The Hill) to publish Lutsenko’s allegations against Biden instead of taking them to the Justice Department. Lutsenko has since said there was no evidence of wrongdoing by Biden.
Nunes
-------
Wants to know if witnesses know certain characters he implies were involved in pro-Clinton activities in 2016 election. They don.t
Turns to Christopher Steels, trying to link Hill to Steel as if it were a crime when they both were working intelligence people. She had no contact with him in 2016.
Turns to trying to link "rabbit hole" Steele dossiers and Hill in another debunked conspiracy. Hill declines.
Castor
-------
Establishes her last day in NSC July 19th in effort to dissociate her from first hand knowledge of any events thereafter. Hill was not in favor of the 7/25 call and that Bolton also against because felt unprepared and no agenda for full discussion established.
Turns to foreign assistance review of aid being in the works for months. Hadn't (hasn't?) taken place.
Turns to Volker for character affirmation.
Turns to Sondland. Hill sees Sondland's portfolio legitimately extended to Ukraine, pointing out EU financial and humanitarian assitance to that country. Hill had concerns about Sondland's role since it ramped afteer Yovanovitch pushed out. She confronted him. He said, "I'm in charge of Ukraine. I'm here to make deals. (to make meeting between Pres. and Trump) I've been given a very broad portfolio." She asked who put him in charge. He said, "The president." He told her that he reported to Trump, Mulvaney, and Pompeo. "Who else do I need to report to?" She reaffirms Sondland "very firm" about who appointed him. She affirms presidential right to remove any ambassador, but concerned by the method (character smear), and concerned about the alternative foreign policy track. She related her concerns (esp. about smear campaign) to Phil Rico, David Hale, and Dep. Sec. Sullivan (Amb. to Russia).
Hill opposed arming Ukraine with Javelins initially because of their ill-preparedness to handle them and sustainability of military. Assured herself after more investigation and changed her mind.
Turns to Holmes.
Asks, "What's view from field of Javelins." He answers, "They're an important Russian deterrent." Elicits"Yes" when asks if Amb. Taylor enthusiastic proponent.
Nunes speaks
Asks about former parliamentarian and journalist (Levshenko --name?) trying to concoct conspiracy about him providing the Black Ledger. Holmes says it's credible. Nunes attempts to accuse Mueller didn't use it because he didn't find it so. Nunes tries to say BL only purpose to undermine Trump. Holmes disagrees. He never told me that. He was only interested in exposing corruption. Nunes picks up Steele dossier as if it were similar to Trump's turning to foreign nationalities to dig up dirt on opponents. Neither think it appropriate for politicians to do so. Therefore, not appropriate for Trump. No attempt by Nunes to draw the distinction that Trump bribed a head of state for that info, and an intelligence agent simply gathering info without bribing anyone.
Castor speaks
Brings up Orban, Pres Hungary. Hill refuses to speak about head of state meetings.
Talking about delegation to attend Pres. Z inauguration. Hill says she is one who recommended Perry take lead because of his deep knowledge of energy and energy a big and important issue in Ukraine because of Russian manipulation of Ukrainian pipelines to European mkts.
Nunes speaks
Dec 2015 (Holmes not on station then) brings up then interest in Burisma corruption. Neither can corroborate $3M to Biden accounts. Nunes goes on and on about incidents that have nothing to do with inquiry and only with Republican false narrative about Biden corruption. Neither Hill nor Holmes know about any of the cockamamie business.
Nunes wants to know if they briefed Trump on all those briefings. Hill, says, "You obviously don't know that that's not how briefings take place. Subjects are briefed when they raise issues and we brief on those."
Castor speaks
Sondland. Some sort of coffee he had with Hill. Hill claims it's a fabrication. "We don't have coffee because we dont have coffee machines. He's conflating a CO coffee date in 2018 and a meeting with Vindman and Ukrainians where there was coffee."
Hill testifies their relationship was testy. He wasn't coordinating with us beause he wasn't informing us of any meetings. He said he was communicating with Mulvaney, Trump, and Bolton. He was correct, our missions had diverged. He was involved in promoting personal political politics and was instructed to do that by Trump. (BINGO!) Hill told him, I think this is going to blow up. And here we are."
So! We have confirmed by Hill TWO separate channels involved in incompatible missions in Ukraine. One domestic and personal (Sondland's) and one national and policy oriented, not domestic politics (Bolton's).
Turns to Lt. Col. Hill: "I did NOT convey to Morrison any dissatisfaction with Vindman!" Said, "I was concerned about how things were trending in Ukraine foreign policy. I was concerned that as a military man that Vindman would not have expertise in dealing with non-military issues, like the personal political trend. Morrison did."
"Julu 10th Lt. Col. V. was justifiably alarmed with increasingly political tending in that meeting."
Holmes $3B in aid since 2014. EU nations have provided combined $12B.
Castor, "Do you think that information is what the administration wanted?" SURPRISE!
Both have no idea what reaction to aid facts could have been.
Biden speaks
To Hill, "Are you aware of Reublican implications that Lt. Col. V. has divided loyalties?" She responds that she thinks that is deplorable.
Followed by extremely detailed recollection of her stay-behind meeting that led Bolton to go to Eisenburg.
Jordan rants
"Why didn't you bring it up." The second time Jordan has opened his questioning of a witness without identifying the subject, using "it." Follows by hammering Holmes about people he told about restaurant call. Holmes visibly grins at the performance. Holmes gets chance to provide his personal timeline and makes it clear that he (Holmes) followed the chain of command. It's not his job to follow up what his supervisor (Taylor) does or doesn't do/inform.
Jordan continues to try to hammer Holmes and constantly interrupts his attempts to reply. "There was nodding agreement that everyone knew Trump was talking about quid pro quo." Jordan makes an ass out of himmself persisting in rudely cutting off answer he doesn't like, which is the truth. Jordan crashes, burns dies, as Schiff has to gavel him until he shuts up, jis time long-expired.
Himes
Sides with Hill who agrees that Nunes' "Russian hoax" talking point that originated with Trump (quotes him) is against our national security.
Ukrainian Amb. op-ed and about candidate Trump's public remark, "Ukraine would rather be with Russia," comment. Goes on to discuss distinction in another article by Volker between what Ukrainians did after "betting on the wrong horse," and what the Russians did by fixing the horse race so their horse would win.
Ratcliffe rants
Republicans not Democrats were first to raise issue about Russian interference.
Asks Holmes about overheard phone call and tries to make big deal that Trump didn't keep talking about his Ukrainian bribery scheme. Like Jordan, he is belligerent and interrupts. Ratcliffe trying to make a molehill out of a mountain by highlighting Sweden portion of conversation, which Holmes already testified he heard nothing of because Trump lowered his voice or Sondland modulated his phone. That attempt to create a diversion didn't go well.
Sewell speaks
Wants to know about harrassment and threats. Asks if Hill is a never Trumper. Hill replies as a non-partisan, as are all my colleagues, I don't know what that means.
I need a lunch break.
3Limelite
OK. Listened to the goings-on. In sum, Republicans ranted at witnesses but asked no questions of them; they attacked impeachment inquiry as baseless (as if Americans were brain dead); they created their last stand circus by mischaracterizing what is an impeachment is, trying to hold it to the equivalency of criminal court. Lots of huff and puff. Not a word in defense of Trump's conspiracy to ensure his personal political benefit in 2020 elections by asking Ukraine to meddle in them by concocting false stories of Biden corruption.
Democratic questioners ask about threats to their persons, about substantive follow-up to testimony. Ask about Eisenburg's response to Hill reporting about issues surrounding her stay-back as requested by Bolton. Ask about Ward Room meeting attended by Ukrainians (Yermak and Danyluk among others), Sondland, Bolton, and State Dept., including Volker. Hillmakes clear that Ukrainians were disturbed by Sondland dominating meeting and the Americans arguing amongst themelves about Sondland's linkage of one-on-one meeting and investigations because of the two-track dealings by Trump administration.
Stefanik speaks (R)
After her posturing, she asks questions about scheduling of one-on-one Trump/Zelensky meeting (Bolton wanted it after Parliamentary elections) Sondland mission before.
Stefanik tries to make case that because quid pro quo deliverables by Ukraine not met, but American deliverable of aid was met that no foul occurred.
Swallwell speaks
Topic turns to Kash Patel, who worked for Rep. Nunes. Hill learned this only after the fact.
Turns to Lev Parnas and asks Hill if she is aware Parnas worked to help arrange Nunes calls and meetings on his trip to Ukraine. Hill says she knows nothing about that.
Swallwell accuses Nunes of projection since he is the individual working with foreign powers in his "investigations."
Swallwell asks witnesses to testify why it's so important for US to help Ukraine in their war with Russia. Holmes responds 14,000 Ukrainian deaths plus two more over the weekend. Holmes strikes back at Republican rep who tried to paint Holmes as showing disrespect to Pres. Z because he (Holmes) testified to the words Sondland used about Pres. Z. in the restaurant phone call.
Hurd speaks (R)
Criticizes fellow Republicans demeaning and partisan actions and words, emphasizes we can learn from Ukrainians. Goes on to complain that committee hasn't heard from Biden or Giuliani; makes no mention of all the Republican cabinet and other officials who have refused to obey subpoenas and Trump's efforts to subvert investigation with lies and obstruction. Whines about how haven't heard anyone say "I am involved in bribery."
Castro speaks (D)
Counterargues Republican characterization of inquiry as "vile" and "dangerous." Says Trump's own words implicate himself in bribery scheme. Mulvaney and Giuliani may not have appeared before hearings, have made public confessions of quid pro quo, bragged about their actions to make that gambit (Giuliani) happen.
Points out that Michael Glaser, a Perry crony, who benefitted from petro deals post-Perry trip to Ukraine is a person whose name on list Perry submitted to Ukrainians as people wh would be "helpful" to Ukrainian energy issues.
Conaway speaks (R)
These hearings divisive and thus play into Putin's hands. Attacks Clinton blah, blah, blah. RT is propaganda machine. Conway implies its broadcasts about fracking also play into Putin's hands, since Putin said it is a great threat to Russia.
Turns to Holmes. You're privy to a lot of official "stuff." Attacks him on basis of Jordan's earlier hammering on how many people Holmes "indiscretly" shared unflattering info about Trump with individuals who he thought would find it interesting, implying "a person on a back road would find it interesting." Holmes says, "It was Sondland who acted with indiscretion." Conaway jumps to the attack because Holmes evaded his trap. Conaway rants and Schiff says too bad that he asks questions but doesn't want to hear the answer. Gavels him to shut up.
Heck speaks (D)
He blows Republican lies issued during inquiry out of the water. "Here's the Big Truth. The president did (attempt to bribe Zelensky). Yes, he did it." Goes on to talk how country founded on the Rule of Law. Says Trump put at risk the security of Ukraine. And when he did it, he put AMerica's security at risk. When he did, he put at risk the Rule of Law when he did what he did. The president did. The only question that remains is what will we do."
Jordan speaks (R)
Gets confirmation about "rabbit hole." Pivots to rant about how DNC conspired to subvert elections. Goes on about 2016, Comey, Mueller investigations. Brags they both "got nothing." Jordan says NOTHING about those who obstructed and fired Comey, nothing about those who lied to Mueller and obstructed his investigation by not appearing before grand jury, this preventing a complete and thorough expose. Attacks Pelosi.
Welch speaks (D)
Speaks to colleagues and American people, praising witnesses for doing their duty. President Trump conditioned Ukraine security aid on Pres. Z creating false case against Biden and pressured Pres. Z to perform by denying one-on-one meeting.
It's clear that Trump has initiated a cover- up of these transgressions by prohibiting officials from testifying.
Says Trump and Republicans say, "This is normal." Conaway says same Rule of Law applies to mayors, governors, and CEOs. Trump asked Ukraine to interfere in our elections but calls it "perfect" says he, "would do it again."
This is a clear betrayal of his oath of office and cannot become normal.
Maloney speaks (D)
Enters journalistic reports of stories that expose Republican duplicity and spreading of false stories about Clinton into record.
Praises Hill for enduring "that terrific mansplaining" by one Republican colleague earlier.
Asks Hill why Bolton asked her to go to lawyer. She says, "He wanted to report quid pro quo linkage and make sure we were not implicated in trump's dealings."
Questions credibility that Sondland didn't know meaning of Burisma as code word for Biden investigations, how she knew, that morrison figured it out with one Google. Hill says, "It was not credible to me that he was oblivious."
Demings speaks (D)
Brings up Trump's order to OMB to put security aid on hold. Asks both is it in national interests to provide such to Ukraine. They agree. She asks isn't it a fact the delay signals Russia that Ukraine-US bond was shaky could encourage it to be even more aggressive? Holmes agrees. Hill talks about parallel of Russia vs. Georgia "When Putin said to Georgians, 'Your Western allies made a lot of promises. They didn't deliver. I made threats and I delivered.'"
Krishnamurthi (D)
You said (Hill) that you've been accused of being a mole for George Soros. Roger Stone on show Infowars embellished the specious claim. Similar conspiracy theory had been launched against Amb. Yavonovitch and it made you furious. You said it was another whipping up of anti-Semitism against individuals and Soros." Hill agrees and brings up Protocols of Elders of Zion connection of subscribers to that trope and anti-Semitism.
Goes on to ask if Giuliani and associates acting also in their own economic interests. Mentions indicted Firtash. Does potential exist that American Ukraine foreign policy is being run to further personal financial interests by these actors. Hill says, "It certainly does. Yes."
Nunes Closing Remarks
More of his usual attempts to promote impeachment is a Democratic conspiracy to foment a coup against poor Donald Trump. Blah, blah, blah.
I will dispense with further closing statements as I did with opening ones.
____________________________________________
This is the final public session of the witnesses' testimony by those who have so far been deposed.
Any inaccuracies are mine alone because it's hard to listen and type at the same time. End of whine.
Democratic questioners ask about threats to their persons, about substantive follow-up to testimony. Ask about Eisenburg's response to Hill reporting about issues surrounding her stay-back as requested by Bolton. Ask about Ward Room meeting attended by Ukrainians (Yermak and Danyluk among others), Sondland, Bolton, and State Dept., including Volker. Hillmakes clear that Ukrainians were disturbed by Sondland dominating meeting and the Americans arguing amongst themelves about Sondland's linkage of one-on-one meeting and investigations because of the two-track dealings by Trump administration.
Stefanik speaks (R)
After her posturing, she asks questions about scheduling of one-on-one Trump/Zelensky meeting (Bolton wanted it after Parliamentary elections) Sondland mission before.
Stefanik tries to make case that because quid pro quo deliverables by Ukraine not met, but American deliverable of aid was met that no foul occurred.
Swallwell speaks
Topic turns to Kash Patel, who worked for Rep. Nunes. Hill learned this only after the fact.
Turns to Lev Parnas and asks Hill if she is aware Parnas worked to help arrange Nunes calls and meetings on his trip to Ukraine. Hill says she knows nothing about that.
Swallwell accuses Nunes of projection since he is the individual working with foreign powers in his "investigations."
Swallwell asks witnesses to testify why it's so important for US to help Ukraine in their war with Russia. Holmes responds 14,000 Ukrainian deaths plus two more over the weekend. Holmes strikes back at Republican rep who tried to paint Holmes as showing disrespect to Pres. Z because he (Holmes) testified to the words Sondland used about Pres. Z. in the restaurant phone call.
Hurd speaks (R)
Criticizes fellow Republicans demeaning and partisan actions and words, emphasizes we can learn from Ukrainians. Goes on to complain that committee hasn't heard from Biden or Giuliani; makes no mention of all the Republican cabinet and other officials who have refused to obey subpoenas and Trump's efforts to subvert investigation with lies and obstruction. Whines about how haven't heard anyone say "I am involved in bribery."
Castro speaks (D)
Counterargues Republican characterization of inquiry as "vile" and "dangerous." Says Trump's own words implicate himself in bribery scheme. Mulvaney and Giuliani may not have appeared before hearings, have made public confessions of quid pro quo, bragged about their actions to make that gambit (Giuliani) happen.
Points out that Michael Glaser, a Perry crony, who benefitted from petro deals post-Perry trip to Ukraine is a person whose name on list Perry submitted to Ukrainians as people wh would be "helpful" to Ukrainian energy issues.
Conaway speaks (R)
These hearings divisive and thus play into Putin's hands. Attacks Clinton blah, blah, blah. RT is propaganda machine. Conway implies its broadcasts about fracking also play into Putin's hands, since Putin said it is a great threat to Russia.
Turns to Holmes. You're privy to a lot of official "stuff." Attacks him on basis of Jordan's earlier hammering on how many people Holmes "indiscretly" shared unflattering info about Trump with individuals who he thought would find it interesting, implying "a person on a back road would find it interesting." Holmes says, "It was Sondland who acted with indiscretion." Conaway jumps to the attack because Holmes evaded his trap. Conaway rants and Schiff says too bad that he asks questions but doesn't want to hear the answer. Gavels him to shut up.
Heck speaks (D)
He blows Republican lies issued during inquiry out of the water. "Here's the Big Truth. The president did (attempt to bribe Zelensky). Yes, he did it." Goes on to talk how country founded on the Rule of Law. Says Trump put at risk the security of Ukraine. And when he did it, he put AMerica's security at risk. When he did, he put at risk the Rule of Law when he did what he did. The president did. The only question that remains is what will we do."
Jordan speaks (R)
Gets confirmation about "rabbit hole." Pivots to rant about how DNC conspired to subvert elections. Goes on about 2016, Comey, Mueller investigations. Brags they both "got nothing." Jordan says NOTHING about those who obstructed and fired Comey, nothing about those who lied to Mueller and obstructed his investigation by not appearing before grand jury, this preventing a complete and thorough expose. Attacks Pelosi.
Welch speaks (D)
Speaks to colleagues and American people, praising witnesses for doing their duty. President Trump conditioned Ukraine security aid on Pres. Z creating false case against Biden and pressured Pres. Z to perform by denying one-on-one meeting.
It's clear that Trump has initiated a cover- up of these transgressions by prohibiting officials from testifying.
Says Trump and Republicans say, "This is normal." Conaway says same Rule of Law applies to mayors, governors, and CEOs. Trump asked Ukraine to interfere in our elections but calls it "perfect" says he, "would do it again."
This is a clear betrayal of his oath of office and cannot become normal.
Maloney speaks (D)
Enters journalistic reports of stories that expose Republican duplicity and spreading of false stories about Clinton into record.
Praises Hill for enduring "that terrific mansplaining" by one Republican colleague earlier.
Asks Hill why Bolton asked her to go to lawyer. She says, "He wanted to report quid pro quo linkage and make sure we were not implicated in trump's dealings."
Questions credibility that Sondland didn't know meaning of Burisma as code word for Biden investigations, how she knew, that morrison figured it out with one Google. Hill says, "It was not credible to me that he was oblivious."
Demings speaks (D)
Brings up Trump's order to OMB to put security aid on hold. Asks both is it in national interests to provide such to Ukraine. They agree. She asks isn't it a fact the delay signals Russia that Ukraine-US bond was shaky could encourage it to be even more aggressive? Holmes agrees. Hill talks about parallel of Russia vs. Georgia "When Putin said to Georgians, 'Your Western allies made a lot of promises. They didn't deliver. I made threats and I delivered.'"
Krishnamurthi (D)
You said (Hill) that you've been accused of being a mole for George Soros. Roger Stone on show Infowars embellished the specious claim. Similar conspiracy theory had been launched against Amb. Yavonovitch and it made you furious. You said it was another whipping up of anti-Semitism against individuals and Soros." Hill agrees and brings up Protocols of Elders of Zion connection of subscribers to that trope and anti-Semitism.
Goes on to ask if Giuliani and associates acting also in their own economic interests. Mentions indicted Firtash. Does potential exist that American Ukraine foreign policy is being run to further personal financial interests by these actors. Hill says, "It certainly does. Yes."
Nunes Closing Remarks
More of his usual attempts to promote impeachment is a Democratic conspiracy to foment a coup against poor Donald Trump. Blah, blah, blah.
I will dispense with further closing statements as I did with opening ones.
____________________________________________
This is the final public session of the witnesses' testimony by those who have so far been deposed.
Any inaccuracies are mine alone because it's hard to listen and type at the same time. End of whine.
4Limelite
Quote of the Day
Chairman Schiff quotes the late Representative Elijah Cummings in his closing remarks, while defending the Rule of Law and condemning corruption of the office of the president, of justice, and of America's prestige on the world stage. . .
Chairman Schiff quotes the late Representative Elijah Cummings in his closing remarks, while defending the Rule of Law and condemning corruption of the office of the president, of justice, and of America's prestige on the world stage. . .
"We are better than that!"
5Limelite
Question of the Day
Does John Bolton need to testify? Why or why not, in your view.
P.S. Bonus Question
Should sny of the others implicated in this -- Bolton's words, "drug deal" -- testify? Why or why not, in your view.
Does John Bolton need to testify? Why or why not, in your view.
P.S. Bonus Question
Should sny of the others implicated in this -- Bolton's words, "drug deal" -- testify? Why or why not, in your view.
6JGL53
Bolton and anyone else whose testimony is germane to the issue of the orange traitor's criminal actions regarding Ukrainian should be subpoenaed. Any of them not showing up should be tracked down, arrested, and jailed until they agree to testify. If full personal immunity is requested before they testify, or they attempt to plead the 5th, then full immunity should be granted. Anyone then caught lying should be charged with perjury and sentenced to the maximum - something they should be informed of at the beginning of their testimony.
IOW, the time for farting around with these punk-ass bitches has now passed. They will either step forward like loyal Americans and tell the truth or they should be hit in the head with Maxwell's Silver Hammer until they are dead (metaphorically-speaking).
IOW, the time for farting around with these punk-ass bitches has now passed. They will either step forward like loyal Americans and tell the truth or they should be hit in the head with Maxwell's Silver Hammer until they are dead (metaphorically-speaking).
8JGL53
> 7
Oh, Bolton will never be a Fiona Hill - he just needs to come clean now in order to best assure he will not face conspiracy charges in the future, as a lot of these a-holes very well might.
Oh, Bolton will never be a Fiona Hill - he just needs to come clean now in order to best assure he will not face conspiracy charges in the future, as a lot of these a-holes very well might.
9John5918
>7 Limelite:
'Absolute fearlessness': women take impeachment spotlight and speak truth as Trump fumes (Guardian)
Over two extraordinary weeks, four women have testified publicly and shown remarkable competence and composure in the face of Trump’s smears...
'Absolute fearlessness': women take impeachment spotlight and speak truth as Trump fumes (Guardian)
Over two extraordinary weeks, four women have testified publicly and shown remarkable competence and composure in the face of Trump’s smears...
10lriley
A lot of these State Dept. people should be commended--Voyanovich, Hill, Taylor, Holmes......and Lt. Col. Vindman too.
#8--I agree with this. If Bolton doesn't want to be tarnished he should testify. It seems that he knew what Trump and Giuliani etc. were doing was shit and he got the people close to him to protect themselves from getting shit all over themselves. So the last thing he needs to do is come on board and make sure he doesn't end up wearing any of it either.
#8--I agree with this. If Bolton doesn't want to be tarnished he should testify. It seems that he knew what Trump and Giuliani etc. were doing was shit and he got the people close to him to protect themselves from getting shit all over themselves. So the last thing he needs to do is come on board and make sure he doesn't end up wearing any of it either.
11krolik
>10 lriley:
But Bolton has a book deal, and from what I've heard, the earliest they could rush it out would be the spring. Testifying would be, you know, doing something for free.
But Bolton has a book deal, and from what I've heard, the earliest they could rush it out would be the spring. Testifying would be, you know, doing something for free.
12proximity1
the view from Reality:
Americans took about as much interest in these sham hearings —and they viewed them as a sham—as they did an average sit-com.
Trump must now be hoping that the same party that was so stupid as to launch this Schiff-committee impeachment fiasco is also stupid enough to actually nominate Joe Biden.
There is ample evidence to support such a hope and expectation.
13lriley
#12--if so what is your gripe? You should be happy.....but you're not, so......what's this shit about reality then?
14Limelite
>12 proximity1:
You lie.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/business/media/22impeachment-debate-tv-rating...
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/impeachment-tv-ratings-see-slight-up...
Nobody knows who the Dem nominee will be. You better hope it's not Biden. The only poll favoring Trump is statistically a virtual tie, since his lead doesn't even exceed the MOE. As per RCP. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trum...
You lie.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/business/media/22impeachment-debate-tv-rating...
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/impeachment-tv-ratings-see-slight-up...
Nobody knows who the Dem nominee will be. You better hope it's not Biden. The only poll favoring Trump is statistically a virtual tie, since his lead doesn't even exceed the MOE. As per RCP. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/general_election_trum...
Poll Date Sample MoE Spread
Biden (D) vs Trump (R)
RCP Average 10/15 - 11/20 -- -- 52.0 42.4 Biden +9.6
Emerson 11/17 - 11/20 1092 RV 2.9 49 51 Trump +2
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 10/27 - 10/30 720 RV 3.7 50 41 Biden +9
ABC News/Wash Post 10/27 - 10/30 876 RV 4.0 56 39 Biden +17
FOX News 10/27 - 10/30 1040 RV 3.0 51 39 Biden +12
IBD/TIPP 10/24 - 10/31 863 RV 3.5 53 43 Biden +10
CNN 10/17 - 10/20 892 RV 4.0 53 43 Biden +10
SurveyUSA 10/15 - 10/16 3080 RV 2.1 52 41 Biden +11
All General Election: Trump vs. Biden Polling Data
15Limelite
Lordy! There ARE tapes -- audio and video -- and photographs! They include both Trump and Giuliani. Lev Parnas has turned them over to the House Intelligence Committee, along with documents.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-intelligence-committee-possession-video-au...
However, some of the material sought by congressional investigators is already in possession of federal investigators within the Southern District of New York and thus held up from being turned over, according to sources familiar with the matter.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/house-intelligence-committee-possession-video-au...
