What Bernie should have said

It looks like Bernie lost the nomination tonight. This is a thread to post what he should have answered to some of the questions that might have had more of an impact.

When Biden made the comment about Italy's problems with covid-19 even though they have a single payer health care system, Bernie should have said that Italy's problems are due to their not getting a handle on the problem early enough and doesn't have anything to do with the type of their health care system. And also, if an Italian got sick from covid-19 he wouldn't have to worry about how he was going to pay for his medical bills, unlike an American.

When Biden described his plan that anyone getting sick from covid-19 should be made whole, Bernie should have said that his plan sounded a lot like Medicare for all but why did Biden think that if it was good for the current crisis that people shouldn't deserve to have that system all the time and for all diseases.

Tony Blair: nominating Bernie Sanders would be 'an enormous gamble' (Guardian)

Tony Blair has warned Democrats in the US that nominating Bernie Sanders to face Donald Trump for the presidency would be “an enormous gamble”, risking defeat on a similar scale to that suffered by the Labour Party under Jeremy Corbyn.

The former prime minister told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria: “When I hear the rhetoric around Bernie Sanders, who by the way is obviously a very capable guy, it’s eerily familiar to anyone who’s just watched the debacle unfold in the British Labour party and our election defeat in the UK, which is essentially the worst in our 120-year history”...

Mind you, Tony Blair infamously sacrificed Labour party principles to get elected and is now tainted goods after taking the UK to war in Iraq, so his advice is not necessarily the most reliable.

Tony Blair is one of the biggest pieces of shit on the planet.

#2--#3---I don't think Bernie wants to beat up Biden really. The party establishment pretty much made the decision for the voters when they all stepped up for Biden before Super Tuesday. Bernie is in a position where on the one hand his campaign has been completely undermined and on the other if he exposes Biden's weaknesses Trump gets a free primer on how to destroy Joe in a debate. Meanwhile Biden is holding out an olive branch to Warren. Will Warren campaign for Joe? and if she does whatever impact that will have will not likely sway the more recalcitrant Sanders voters back on the team. The only one who has a chance of getting some of them back is Bernie so Biden needs an olive branch for them too and apparently M4A even with this crisis is a bridge too far for Biden.

I think that's what sticks in the craw of Bernie supporters, that he didn't lose on a debate of ideas but by the acclamation of the Democratic establishment starting with Clyburn. There's the suspicion that they wouldn't have let Bernie win the nomination no matter what.

#7---that's my point of view. Kind of the question I have here with Bernard is that I think getting rid of Trump as POTUS takes precedence in his agenda over even climate change and M4A and it's hard to argue against it really. We're seeing right now how Donald handles a health crisis. Between his mixed messaging and inaction he's going to kill people--probably 1000's anyway before this thing dies out---maybe even more than 1000's. So no---I don't think Bernie wanted to beat him up last night. That doesn't mean however that Trump won't if/when he gets the chance. And anyway there's also the narrative that Sanders was too hard on Clinton in 2016 and that helped Trump win. I don't believe it but last night it was kid gloves or Sanders as know your place sparring partner.

Push comes to shove much as I don't like Biden I'll be voting for him in November and if I needed another last straw the way Trump's administration has handled this crisis provided it. That's if of course there is an election in November because if Covid-19 is still a thing then Trump has a ready made legit reason for a national emergency to suspend it....to a safer time. I'm thinking though of exploring the mail in ballot because I'm not standing in line around any number of potential Covid-19 carriers to vote for Biden who I don't like and I might as well say that if Biden does win I expect I'm going to be spending the next several years critiquing his ass too. I don't plan on being very nice.

Might as well say though I suspect for some Sanders supporters Biden is still a bridge too far. For me it is what it is. This is a choice the democratic party decided to make to go after those never Trumper republicans. I'm not going to blame individual voters for what the democratic party decided to do. I think Biden is going to depress the younger's peoples vote--the question is how much but it's hard to be very enthusiastic about what November looks like.

Sanders paid the price for the unique jeopardy of Trump. Trumpism is an unprecedented danger and Sanders doesn't want to be the one who gave the chance to the rabid dog to rampage for another four years. That's why he "went soft" on Biden--in a way he even announced that he would do so, talking about the questions he would pose Biden as if taking for granted Biden's nomination.

The Democratic party are giant shits and I hope (but I have hoped this a long time now) that this final shameful betrayal of progressivism will finally push the young and true progressives to form a party actually representing their programme.

#9--the one thing with being an outsider is there is no inside game to play. Sanders was a threat to the cozy worlds of all those democratic insiders. Obama did a lot of grass roots activism his first time around and toned it down the second time. That kind of thing is not the usual anymore. The usual is you go to banks, corporations, industries from pharma to lenders to private prisons, health insurance entities, Wall St. tycoons and hedge managers and that's where you raise your money. Grass roots is usually very much secondary to all that. Building grass roots--surviving on millions of small donors is not the way they do things. The democratic party IMO does not really have people with the skillsets for doing that. I think from the Democratic establishment point of view Sanders was always trying to change the rules of their game.

After this election it's pretty much time for Bernie to pass on the torch. He'll be 82 in 2024. If 78 is very old for making a presidential run IMO when you hit your 80's you are too old. AOC is already a national figure with quite a bit of clout and Omar to lesser extent. Pramila Jayapal is also a figure that could have some impact. She's very smart and well spoken. She's the main person who wrote up a compatible M4A House bill to Sanders Senate M4A bill. The real progressive democrats have to start wedging other democrats in the house--withholding support from party leadership when necessary for instance---kind of like what the Freedom caucus has done to the republican party over the last few congresses.

The Biden campaign has signalled Warren that he would now support her bankruptcy bill and has signalled Sanders support for free college--maybe student debt relief. That's smaller potatoes than a Green New Deal or M4A for sure but both of those things that the Biden campaign are now signalling support for are a lot more doable in the present political climate than the Green New Deal or M4A. Overall disappointing but still if free college were to go through it would be significant. Hopefully Sanders is able to wedge them even further. When you go back to your voters to ask them to vote for someone else it's usually good when you have some worthwhile reason to give them.

>1 jjwilson61: ---> >10 lriley:


LOL!

You people are priceless! Damn!, I'm going to love reading this 'Ship-of-Fools' thread of unintended comedy.

“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour, and now you will have war."
-- Winston Churchill

>10 lriley:

Biden better commit seriously to that or he has no chance of getting the necessary progressive vote in November. It will be difficult enough for him to generate support even so.

Sanders supporters ought to start building a new party right now, enough time was wasted since Occupy (or much earlier, depending on how far back you want to go).

Change is happening; it's just too late for Sanders. He achieved what humanly a self-described socialist could achieve in a country as disgusting as the US.

#11--all in all Winston Churchill was a shitbird.

#12--I wouldn't be against it a new party.

Bernie will hang around in case Biden utterly loses it and has to be admitted to a nursing home.

At this point I would say the odds are in Biden's favor - of not going completely mental - somewhere around 4 to 1.

.