HistoryCAT Planning thread

Getting the conversation started on our HistoryCAT.

January: The Middle Ages - pamelad
February: Modern c.1800 to now - Tess_W
March: Early Modern c.1500 to c. 1800 - Robertgreaves
April: Ancient 8th C BC to 6th AD - SilverWolf28
May: Dynasties/Civilisations/Empires - susanna.fraser
June: Military/War/Revolution - rabbitprincess
July: Social History - sallylou61
August: Your Own Country - NinieB
September: Religion/Philosophy/Politics/The Law - thornton37814
October: A country/region of your choice - VivienneR
November: Events - LibraryCin
December: Adventure/Exploration and Discovery - MissWatson

Periods:
- Ancient 8th C BC to 6th AD
- Middle Ages 5th to 15th centuries
- Early Modern c.1500 to c. 1800
- Modern c.1800 to now

Topics:
- Adventure/Exploration and Discovery (including scientific discoveries and movements)
- Military/War/Revolution (including genocide)
- Social History (People and Ways of Life. (incl. history of a minority, oppressed people, etc.) Also including biography/memoir and ways of life) (e.g. domestic and work details, including food, farming, employment)
- Religion/Philosophy/Politics/The Law (e.g. the Reformation, the vote, changing role of women, the Spanish Inquisition (no one expects it)
- Events (e.g. Titanic, Mardi Gras, Guy Fawkes, stock market crash, Eureka Stockade, War of 1812, Arcadian Expulsion from Canada, Bloody Sunday, French Revolution, Great Depression, War in the Pacific... and more)

Regions
- Your own country
- Dynasties/Civilisations/Empires
- A country/region of your choice


Possible topics:
Crime/Mystery
Adventure/Exploration and Discovery
Military/War/Revolution
Science (incl. Geology)
People (incl. history of a minority, oppressed people, etc.)
Religion/Philosophy
Biography/Memoir
Genocides

Time Periods
Ancient 8th C BC to 6th AD
Middle Ages 5th to 15th centuries
Early Modern c.1500 to c. 1800
Modern c.1800 to now

Events
War of 1812
Arcadian Expulsion from Canada
Mardis Gras
Guy Fawkes Plot
Bloody Sunday
French Revolution
Great Depression
War in the Pacific

Region-based
Region-based (i.e. Southern Hemisphere, Set on an island, Africa, Asia)
History of your own country
Mesopotamia

Very specific
Food

Last time we did this, there were two options. Every month had a time period and every month had a topic. If I'm remembering correctly, people could choose to do one or the other or both.

In any case, I am also remembering that some people found it too much and/or too confusing that way.

So... do we want to focus on topics or time periods, or do we want a combination (some months one, some months the other), or do we want to have both options for each month again?

Thoughts? I can set up a vote if we want (is that working again, does anyone know?)

>2 LibraryCin: I went looking for this and you're right, we did have a combination of time periods and topics last time. This thread should contain the final list of topics and time periods covered: https://www.librarything.com/topic/182810

I would lean more toward having one thing to focus on per month, whether it be a time period or a topic.

>3 rabbitprincess: Thank you! I was going to look for that thread, but you beat me to it!

We could go for styles of Historical Fiction such as:

Historical Mysteries
Historical Adventure
Historical Romance and Family Sagas
Historical Westerns
Historical Fantasy
Alternative Histories
Historical Non-Fiction
Historical military/war
Historical Fiction by Women
Historical Fiction by Men
YA/Children's Historical Fiction
Historical Fiction based on real people

>5 DeltaQueen50: I like this list. I have to admit to being somewhat worried, since history is not really my thing. (My husband reads non-fiction history voraciously.) If this is what our year will look like, count me in. If it turns out to be mostly non-fiction, I probably will give it a pass.

>5 DeltaQueen50: I think I'd rather it was more ameanable to completion by non-fiction than that appears to be.

The idea of a mixture of time periods and topics appeals more.

I would also like topics that could be satisfied by non-fiction. Either time periods or topics would work for me.

>8 hailelib: I'd also like to be able to read non-fiction, preferably for the majority of topics, and would like to see categories that allowed a choice of fiction or non-fiction. War and Adventure would fit. The GenreCAT might cover some of >5 DeltaQueen50: the other suggestions.

Some possibilities:

Exploration and Discovery (e.g. countries, regions)
Science
Ancient civilisations
People

When I thought of a HistoryCAT, I was thinking nonfiction. If it needs to be fiction, I would be less likely to join unless it is a topic/period I'm really interested in.

However, there are a lot of possibilities with CATs and KITs this year (plus BingoDOG) so it really does not matter who reads for what challenge. Anyone would be welcome to read for any CAT or KIT any month.

>6 LadyoftheLodge: I was thinking every category could be fiction or nonfiction. Whatever works for people.

From comments, I feel like we should just stick with topics or time periods, but not limiting each month to specifically fiction or non.

>5 DeltaQueen50: We could use some of these but not restrict to fiction.

Mysteries
Adventure
Military/War
YA/Children's

I see >9 pamelad: has made other suggestions. I'll start putting some of the suggestions in my first post.

>9 pamelad: In my post at the top, I put "Exploration and Discovery" with "Adventure". I feel like they fit together - is that ok?

I agree with >9 pamelad: that I'd like to minimize overlap with GenreCAT. I anticipate reading both fiction and nonfiction.

Could we have some categories that are time periods? For example, the Middle Ages have been interesting me recently. Ancient Civilizations is also essentially a time period. Both of these could be fiction or nonfiction, reader's choice.

>15 NinieB: I've added "Middle Ages" into the suggested list.

>16 LibraryCin: you could add Renaissance with the Middle Ages or break out the Elizabethan era for Shakespeare or set in the time period.

>14 LibraryCin: No worries. Could we eliminate YA/children? If people want to read a children's book for any topic they can, but please don't make it compulsory!

I like these. Some more time periods and/or themes that could be satisfied by fiction or non-fiction:

* Industrial Revolution or manufacturing
* History of religion (and maybe philosophy?)
* Not covered in civics (maybe your country but not general knowledge in your area, or another country or continent entirely)
* Biography/memoir, including fictionalized, riffing off >5 DeltaQueen50:'s suggestion of "history fiction based on real people" (I'm thinking there'd be interest in including books like Katherine as well as (auto)biographies, etc.) (not sure if this is in the GenreCAT list)

>11 LibraryCin: I like this idea.

>19 pammab: Not clear on what civics covers.

>18 pamelad: Good thought! I am ok with this. I will take it out.

>17 cyderry: I will do Renaissance/Middle Ages, yes. Should I also add Elizabethan?

>19 pammab: I will add Industrial Revolution, Religion/Philosophy, Biography/Memoir, but I'm also not sure what is meant by "Civics".

I'm for whatever works for the majority. I read a lot of historical fiction and some non-fiction so I am sure I will be able to find something for most topics. :)

Enjoy the challenge everyone. I read mostly fiction so will just stay away from this CAT.

I will add my voice to those who want fiction and non-fiction possibilities each month. A mixture of topics and periods sounds good to me.

I’d definitely like categories that work for fiction or nonfiction. When I voted for this category, I was picturing nonfiction—while I like historical fiction, I’m picky about it, and some genres leave me cold.

Some more possibilities:
- Revolutions
- something regionally based, like Southern Hemisphere, set on an island or islands, African history, Asian history, etc
- History of food

I would like to focus on topics or events and then allow the reader to choose whether fiction or non-fiction. Examples: War of 1812, Arcadian Expulsion from Canada, Mardis Gras, Guy Fawkes Plot, Bloody Sunday, etc.

I also would prefer the flexibility of choosing non-fiction or fiction. Depending on the theme/topic, I might choose one or the other. Would depend on what I already have on my shelves and/or my interest in the theme/topic.

I think a mix of topics might be good and provide flexibility: some specific events (as in >27 Tess_W:), some overall themes (as in >26 susanna.fraser:) and some eras/centuries/time periods (as in >15 NinieB:).

I'm not advocating for or against the specifics in these suggestions, but just the overall idea of 1) some months that deal with specific events; 2) some months that deal with themes; and 3) some months that deal with time periods.

>24 majkia: You should be able to read fiction for any of the categories we choose. We are trying to make it fit for both fiction and non.

I don't really have any preference for topics or timeframes, I would just like to include non-fiction options.

I presumed that any of the months could cover either fiction or non-fiction. I'm more of a non-fic reader myself, but have managed to fit non-fic books into most of the (not non-fic) categories where most people have read fiction. So I'd not be mad on having 'historical fiction' as a specific category - as many people have said above, events, themes and time periods would be sufficient and more inclusive of everybody's tastes, I think.

I'd like to suggest: history of your own country; including time periods to cover everything from Classical Antiquity to now. The Industrial Revolution and Regency England could end up in the same time period. I think we need a place for Regency romances!

>32 pamelad: I like Regency romances, so agree with that idea.

>19 pammab: & >22 LibraryCin: Online definition civics: the study of the rights and duties of citizenship.

Not sure what not covered in civics means - maybe aspects of citizenship that aren't covered in classes? Or ways people act as citizens outside norms?

Pammab, could you provide some examples?

Another permutation I made up, how people who aren't citizens act in a community/country?

How about a topic relating to a history of a minority, opressed people or other such group. They say history is written by the winners, how about history from those who maybe didn't necessarily start or end up on top.

I like providing topics and time periods and allowing people to choose nonfiction or fiction.

I've just started a Coursera class "The Cosmopolitan Arabic Medieval World," so I'm excited to see the Medieval time period added.

I'd like to include a geologic time period (Paleozoic, Mesozoic, Cambrian, Triassic . . .) or a geographically based one (Han dynasty, Mediterranean antiquity, Indus valley civilizations)

On second thought, how about a geology (rocks, minerals) category. People could read nonfiction:(John McPhee, Salt (Mark Kurlansky), geology of a particular place or mineral, planetary geology, fossils . . . And if people want to read fiction, it could be fiction that features mountains, quarries, a geologist, mining, petroleum industry, geologic feature . . .)

And another broad one: Mesopotamia. This could include books about the various empires that grew up around the Tigris and Euphrates (Sumerian, Assyrian, Babylonian), the development of agriculture and writing in this area, even broaden to include countries in this geographic area today (Iraq, Kuwait, Syria, maybe even extend to Turkey and Iran)

I like the idea of fiction or non-fiction, as chosen by the reader, and making the categories broad enough to allow lots of choices. As we say, this is supposed to be enjoyable.

>32 pamelad: Oh, I like the "history of your own country"!

I've tried to add most of the suggestions (as long as I thought they could fit either fiction or nonfiction) or make the combinations that people have suggested to >1 LibraryCin:.

Please let me know if I've missed anything or messed up any combinations or you'd prefer if I clarified anything in parentheses beside the names of any of them.

Thanks!

>39 LibraryCin: The time periods so far are:
Ancient Civilizations
Middle Ages/Renaissance
Industrial Revolution/Regency
We're missing time from the Industrial Revolution to the present.

Without replacing the geographically based time period idea, which is interesting, I'd like to suggest the time periods from this BBC history website, https://www.historyextra.com/period/. They are:
Ancient
Middle Ages
Early Modern
Modern
We could consider splitting some of them up further e.g. Modern, depending on how many we wanted.

>37 LadyoftheLodge: I also support broad categories that give plenty of choice, so people can follow their own interests.

Not keen on geology, so would like to see this as part of a wider topic. Could Food also fit into a wider topic? Maybe Science as well, because not everyone is interested.

>40 pamelad: I'm not sure how well those periods "translate" if someone wants to read for example Chinese or Indian history. Unfortunately I don't really know enough about either to be able to divide them up in a satisfactory way

>41 Robertgreaves: The events are Western, but they illustrate time periods, so we could give approximate dates. Results of a quick Google are below.

Ancient 8th C BC to 6th AD
Middle Ages 5th to 15th centuries
Early Modern c.1500 to c. 1800
Modern c.1800 to now

>36 markon: Markon's suggestion of a geographically based time period would allow for Chinese dynasties, for example.

>41 Robertgreaves: Oh, I missed that one. Thank you

>42 pamelad: That could work for a quarterly challenge...

>40 pamelad: Not keen on geology, so would like to see this as part of a wider topic. Could Food also fit into a wider topic? Maybe Science as well, because not everyone is interested. and I'd be adding Religion to that list as well.

You could read a history of religion or science, but I'm not sure that either actually give very much scope for non-fiction reading. But maybe that's just me.

Everything has a history: food, clothing, pottery, art, social relationships, etc. So if we are wanting a broad history, categories or eras would suffice. If we want to narrow it down a bit, we would go with topics: French Revolution, Genocides, Great Depression, War in the Pacific, etc. Either way would allow for fiction or non-fiction. I would prefer the more narrow, topical categories; but I'll go with the flow!

I'll likely participate some of the months, but I may not all months. It really depends on my interest in the monthly selections. I'm not interested in genres. There is a GenreCAT for that. I don't enjoy some genres. I enjoy social history, but some topics interest me less than others. Time periods generally work for me because I'm able to find things in most of those of interest. Geographic regions also work. Tess_W's suggestion in #46 also works.

>21 pamelad: >22 LibraryCin: >34 markon: With civics I was thinking something similar to "history of your own country" broadened to include "history of another place" -- history that you wouldn't necessarily have known much about before reading the book. I think this is getting covered in a couple of suggestions. (edit: so I'm not arguing for my framing -- any of them make sense to me)

>45 Helenliz: I do think there are fiction books that deal with or are set in historical environments infused with religion or science (like in the Catholic church or with a highly medical main character). It may be hard to find them, though. I do think books with religious settings are easier to find than scientific ones for capturing a sense of time and place, but maybe that is just my reading, and they may still not be easy.

On the wider topics like >40 pamelad: (combining Geology, Science, Food, Religion), I toyed with the idea of a history of a "thing" where everyone fills in their own thing, but I worried it would be hard to lend itself to fiction. I think I am getting re-convinced that direction again -- that those are (like YA) specific themes that someone might choose within extremely broad theme of a setting.

> 45 >58 pamelad: There are many historical fiction books set in monasteries or dealing with religious groups. I think those books, such as the Brother Cadfael series, would fit nicely as a fiction read. I think the first book in Philippa Gregory's Fairmile series fits the category too. Something like Hawthorne's The Scarlet Letter (which was historical fiction at the time it was written would also fit. As far as science, I found this listing https://www.bookbub.com/blog/historical-fiction-about-women-and-science.

>49 thornton37814: Hilary Mantell's Wolf Hall series is concerned with the Reformation, so could also fit in Religion, or in its time period. There are also books like My Name is Red, The Bridge on the Drina and Bosnian Chronicle, which have a religious theme.

>45 Helenliz: Because I'm interested in scientific topics, I've come across a range of books that would fit into the history of science, but am happy for science to be combined with something else.

I've just checked my library for books labelled History or Historical (141), and have found that nearly all of them are concerned with the 18th to 20th centuries. There are a few from the Tudor and Classical periods, a few about science.

What time periods do other people's books cover?

Food and Geology, yes very specific. Science is pretty broad. I'm actually thinking Geology could be a part of the Science month.

Someone mentioned that everything has a history. Yup.

Many of the broader topics, though, are resembling this year's NonfictionCAT (though we are including fiction).

I'm feeling like I'm going to prefer the months that are specific historical topics.

>48 pammab: I like your idea of "history of a 'thing'"!

Except now we have so many added layers I'm not even sure what to put in the suggested topics! Getting confused...

Let me see if I can organize better...

Ok, I tried to reorganize >1 LibraryCin: again.

I switched the Time periods, as suggested in >42 pamelad: (thank you, that was helpful!).

I've put the broader topics together, the specific events together, regions together, and were we going to add Food to Science?

We have a lot of options here and there are probably a lot more we could come up with if we continued on.

One thought, as suggested in >44 MissWatson:. There are four time periods. Did we want to do those as quarterly themes, in addition to monthly themes... the monthly themes being from the other topics suggested?

Or is that too much?

>54 LibraryCin: For Region Based we could add >36 markon:'s suggestion or a geographically based one (Han dynasty, Mediterranean antiquity, Indus valley civilizations), which could also include Mesopotamia. It could also include empires.

For Events, could we choose our own?

Regarding themes, my preference would be to keep things simple and not have them. We could have the four time periods as topics. Could genocides fit together with something else so it's avoidable?

ETA Whatever topics you choose are fine. I'll probably skip some, and double up on others. We all have different interests.

This all looks far too complicated. Can I suggest simplifying it down?

Periods:
Ancient 8th C BC to 6th AD
Middle Ages 5th to 15th centuries
Early Modern c.1500 to c. 1800
Modern c.1800 to now

Topics:
Political History
Military History
Social History
Biography/Memoir

Regional:
Your Country
Another Country
Cross-Border ethnic/social groups (Jews, POC, LGBT, other diasporas, etc)
World History

Those who want to focus on a specific event can just file it under the period/topic/region where it fits.

That would give 4 topics in each broad topic which can either be done together or rotated

(Tangentially, it is really neat how this is all coming together. Applaud around the group!)

Here's another suggestion.

Periods:
Ancient 8th C BC to 6th AD
Middle Ages 5th to 15th centuries
Early Modern c.1500 to c. 1800
Modern c.1800 to now

Topics:
Adventure/Exploration and Discovery (including scientific discoveries and movements)

Military/War/Revolution (including genocide)

People (incl. history of a minority, oppressed people, etc.) Also including biography/memoir and ways of life (e.g. domestic and work details, including food, farming, employment)

Religion/Philosophy/Politics/The Law e.g. the Reformation, the vote, changing role of women, the Spanish Inquisition (no one expects it)

Events

Regional:
Your own country
Dynasties/Civilisations/Empires
A country/region of your choice

>56 Robertgreaves: >58 pamelad: I like those!

>56 Robertgreaves: >58 pamelad: These look great!

Also love the inclusion of the Spanish Inquisition in >58 pamelad: :)

It has gotten complicated. My preference would have been more focus on events, and that seems to be mostly fallen to the wayside, but if others want the broader set up, then that is ok.

It seems others (who have commented so far, anyway) are happy with >58 pamelad:, but we are short one for the 12 months:

Periods:
- Ancient 8th C BC to 6th AD
- Middle Ages 5th to 15th centuries
- Early Modern c.1500 to c. 1800
- Modern c.1800 to now

Topics:
- Adventure/Exploration and Discovery (including scientific discoveries and movements)
- Military/War/Revolution (including genocide)
- People and Ways of Life. (incl. history of a minority, oppressed people, etc.) Also including biography/memoir and ways of life (e.g. domestic and work details, including food, farming, employment)
- Religion/Philosophy/Politics/The Law (e.g. the Reformation, the vote, changing role of women, the Spanish Inquisition (no one expects it)

Regions
- Your own country
- Dynasties/Civilisations/Empires
- A country/region of your choice

I'll wait for a few more comments that people are ok to switch to this before replacing >1 LibraryCin: with the above.

ETA: I'll add this to >1 LibraryCin:, but I'll keep the former, and just cross it off, so it's still there for reference.

If people are happy with this setup, I think we need one more.

Then, we can choose the ones we want to host along with the month we want to host them.

Very complicated to me! I can't volunteer to host until I need to know what the topic encompasses.

Events? e.g. sinking of the Titanic, Mardi Gras, Guy Fawkes, stock market crash, Eureka Stockade

>65 pamelad: You're thinking add that as the 12th one, under topics?

>66 LibraryCin: Yes.

This has turned out to be a lot more complicated than I thought it would be. I will pass on this CAT.

>63 LibraryCin: A couple of possibilities for the 12th option:

Prehistory (as a period - i.e., the time before the invention of writing, so there was no history as such)
Alternative History (how things might have been if an event was tweaked eg the Roman empire survived in the West, Hitler won WWII)

I'll take April. I'll choose a topic once they're finalized.

I think I'll add in Events as the 12th option. I'm certain there was at least one other person that mentioned above that she was most interested in events, as am I!

>70 SilverWolf28: I'll put you in to April. Go ahead and choose a topic.

Everyone else - please feel free to also choose a topic and month to host.

Thanks!

I'd like to do The Middle Ages in January.

Thank you LibraryCin for organising this and managing so many suggestions. It's a big subject!

ETA I've just ordered a book A History of the Crusades for Early Modern (or religion) and added A Short History of Byzantium to the wish list for the Middle Ages. I've wanted to find out about the Byzantine Empire ever since a trip to Turkey in 1997.

I'll take: Ancient 8th C BC to 6th AD

I'd like to host Religion/Philosophy/Politics/Law sometime a little later in the year--maybe September? (I'm hosting a month in another challenge in March, and I'd like to give myself time to do each justice.

>72 pamelad: >73 SilverWolf28: >74 thornton37814: Thank you all! I've added you in.

>72 pamelad: And yes! It was trickier to set up than I'd thought it would be, but I'm glad we are now choosing hosts!

>1 LibraryCin:. I think that there are overlaps among some of the topics. I would put the changing role of women under People and Ways of Life which I would call social history. Although suffrage was certainly a big topic in women's history, it is definitely political and belongs under political. Different aspects of the history of oppressed people -- women, racial groups, ethnic groups, etc. would be appropriate under either political or social history.

If we are willing to change the title for People and ways of life to Social history, I'm willing to host it. February or July would be good for me since I'm already hosting in May and December, and we might not want to have topics two months straight.

Could I please have February-Modern History-Genocides, please?

I would like to do Adventures, Exploration and Discoveries in March, please?

Can I have Dynasties, Civilization and Empires in May?

>77 sallylou61: Let's make it Social History, then. It's yours!

Someone else just took Feb, so I'll give you July. Thank you!

I've added in >77 sallylou61: >78 Tess_W: >79 MissWatson: and >80 susanna.fraser:. Thank you!

And I'd like to jump in now to take Events in November.

I've also started crossing off the ones that are taken.

>78 Tess_W: As I reread your message...

I put you down for Modern History (Modern c.1800 to now). We had put "genocides" under Military/War/Revolution, however there are plenty of genocides that fit in Modern. They could also go under Events.

In any case, I wanted to double check if you wanted the Modern History time period or if you want Military/War/Revolution?

I'll send you a pm, as well.

Just an fyi that Tess has said she'll do either one - Modern History or Military/War/Revolution. For now, I'll leave her with Modern History, but if someone else wants it (before someone chooses Military...), I can switch her.

>84 LibraryCin: I need to stick with Modern History Now....I'm arranging a timeline!

>85 Tess_W: Ok, sounds good!

Let me recap what's still available for others, then.

June, August, October , December

- Early Modern c.1500 to c. 1800
- Military/War/Revolution
Regions:
- Your own country
- A country/region of your choice

I will do August with Your Own Country.

Thanks, >86 LibraryCin: for keeping us moving forward!

I can take Military/War/Revolution in June.

>87 NinieB: and >88 rabbitprincess: Done and done! Thank you both!

Ok, two left. If there is anyone who wants to take on a second month, feel free. (I'm not sure I will; I'm already doing 2 months in 2 of the other KITs/CATs!)

See >86 LibraryCin: for what's left.

I'll take "a country/region of your choice" in October.

Just to be sure - does "a country/region of your choice" mean my choice or the participant's choice?

Either way is fine with me but I initially assumed it was a country of my choice.

>91 VivienneR: I’m assuming it’s the participant’s choice, because that's what I'd like.

>92 pamelad: Good! Thank you, Pam!

>91 VivienneR: I was also assuming the participant's choice.

Thank you. I'll add you in!

One more left:
Early Modern, c.1500 to c. 1800 in December.

>94 LibraryCin: Thank you, Cin. Glad to confirm. I didn't think about it until after I volunteered.

>5 DeltaQueen50: I've never read an historical fiction book in my life, unless one counts the Greek and Roman myths and the copious literature that surrounded them...

>18 pamelad: Guerber's 'Myths of Greece and Rome' is an interesting example of 'children's or not'. The style of writing is beautifully simple, reminiscent of a child's volume; however, the niceties of the English used are nicely grown up. Hopefully this classic of a work would be permitted...

>28 kac522: How can one compare fiction and non-fiction. One is just the work of an imaginative mind, the other is the work of hard academic grind. One reason why I've never wasted my time reading historical non-fiction in my life.

>56 Robertgreaves: Why put Jews in that category: they are mainstream and one of the oldest peoples on the planet.

>69 Robertgreaves: The biggest 'if' in the 20th century was 'what if Jellicoe hadn't turned away at Jutland? The RN ruled the seas since Trafalgar, and Beatty had lured the German fleet into a perfect trap; however, on seeing some torpedoes coming his way, Jellicoe turned the Grand Fleet around, made smoke, and ran. Had he have stayed, there would almost certainly have been a British rout of the Germans. Results as follows(?)

Germany would have capitulated before the end of 1916.

The Bolsheviks would have had an eye kept on them: therefore no revolution, and consequently no Eastern Block or even Communism as a whole.

The US would have had no reason to go from a minor military nation to a superpower.

The British could have afforded to have kept up the Empire (I'm not arguing of over the rights and wrongs of Empire, BTW).

A German surrender caused by purely military action (Jutland) would have led to many fewer conditions on Germany following the close of the war, with the possible result that Hitler wouldn't have come to power: no holocaust, no Second World War.

In other words, the result of a couple of hours in 1916 shaped world history far more than most people think (or even have thought of).

>100 JacobKirckman: because Jews were the original diaspora and did not have a country of their own for nearly 1900 years. I was thinking of groups that existed in more than one country.

>98 JacobKirckman: Thank you for the recommendation. A knowledge of Greek and Roman myths would have added another layer to my appreciation of The Magic Mountain and A Dance to the Music of Time this year.

>97 JacobKirckman:, >99 JacobKirckman: Many members of the Category Challenge group read mainly fiction, some read non-fiction as well, and those who read only non-fiction are a small minority.

>101 JacobKirckman: Certainly a lot of conjecture that many historians would find debatable. Strategically Jutland, changed nothing. By "retreating" Jellicoe assured: 1) England's blockade of Europe was maintained 2) Secured the safety of British soldiers in France (and their supply chain) and 3) did not expose the British Isles to invasion. The reasoning of some of the "what if's" is circular. It was France who pushed hard for the ratification of the Treaty of Versailles. They wanted to make Germany a nation of "sheepherders amongst the rubble." So whether defeated in 1916 or 1918, I doubt their position would have changed. I don't want to write a book, but no Bolshevik Revolution, Communism, Cold War?!!!! Whoever is trying to sell that one, I'm not buying.

P.S. I've learned as much reading good historical fiction as I have reading primary sources and non-fiction. I like the challenge of sorting between the fiction and the truth; causes me to do some research!

>95 LibraryCin: We could do a catch up month!

>105 Tess_W: We could, but it's funny to leave out a time period in the middle of all the other time periods we are doing!

(ETA: And it's one I have lots on my tbr for: Tudors... 'nuff said! I am just already hosting a number of months for all our various KITs and CATs, I'm hoping there is someone willing to do this last one!)

Is there anyone who wants to do this last one? See >95 LibraryCin:

>95 LibraryCin: >106 LibraryCin: I would be willing to do the period but not in December as I will already be hosting that month. Is anyone willing to swap months?

>107 Robertgreaves: Yes, I could swap, if March suits you?

>107 Robertgreaves: That's fine by me, if LibraryCin agrees

>107 Robertgreaves: >108 MissWatson: >109 Robertgreaves: You got it!

Thank you so much!

And with that, our year is planned! I will probably do the wiki on the weekend.

Ok, I lied. I went ahead and set up the wiki (though I can still change things if need be).

Also noticed that we have all four time periods between Jan and April!

Here is the wiki:
https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/2021_HistoryCAT

>112 LibraryCin: But not, alas, in order (twitching slightly)

>112 LibraryCin: Thank you for setting up the wiki and all the work for this CAT.

>113 Robertgreaves: I sort of like it out of order.

>113 Robertgreaves: LOL! I noticed that, too...

Think of it this way - HistoryCAT is unlikely to be your only books read throughout the month, so your history-themed books will be mixed in amongst all your other reads as well, so maybe not so noticeable? Maybe?

Yay, looks like we're going to have a great year!

>113 Robertgreaves: And who knows what interesting insights may crop up this way?

I'm excited for this Cat!

>113 Robertgreaves: LOL to "not in order"

The Middle Ages: https://www.librarything.com/topic/327064#n7340030

Suggestions welcome.

Dear All,

I am your scheduled guide for Early Modern History in March. Rather than leave you in the lurch at the last minute, I am telling you now that I have Covid so could someone else take over please?

>120 Robertgreaves: Oh Robert I'm so sorry! :( Wishing you a speedy and full recovery.

>120 Robertgreaves: praying for a quick and complete recovery!

>120 Robertgreaves: I am so sorry to hear this, I hope you have a full and speedy recovery!

>120 Robertgreaves: Yes. We wish you a speedy recovery.

>120 Robertgreaves: Oh no! I hope it's mild and that you'll be over it soon.

>120 Robertgreaves: Best wishes for a quick and complete recovery.

Sending you lots of healthy thoughts, Robert and hoping for a quick and complete recovery.

I will volunteer to host the Early Modern History in March - but if Robert get well soon and wants to take it back, he is more than welcome.

So sorry to hear Robert, best wishes for an uneventful course and speedy recovery!

>127 DeltaQueen50: thank you.

Oh no - get well soon, Robert!

Thank you all for your best wishes

Is the February thread up somewhere?

>132 susanna.fraser: here you go: https://www.librarything.com/topic/328701

>133 fuzzi: Thanks!

The March HistoryCat thread is up and can be found here: https://www.librarything.com/topic/329754

Here's April's thread: https://www.librarything.com/topic/330659

June 2021 thread is up! It's a bit threadbare, but I hope you all will come spruce it up with your suggestions and recommendations :) https://www.librarything.com/topic/332221

July thread is up at https://www.librarything.com/topic/332963#n7530692

August thread is up! https://www.librarything.com/topic/333707

Here's the September thread: https://www.librarything.com/topic/334425

I've posted the thread for November:
https://www.librarything.com/topic/335964