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1ryn_books
Hi there
The first Legends volume was sold in some countries as two separate books. Let's call them (a) and (b).
Each of them has half the stories of the full Legends volume 1 edition. The covers differ too (vol a is a josh kirby cover, and vol b I think is kind of similar to the usual edition). They have different ISBNs.
They are physically different books. Admittedly with confusingly similar titles.
Rightly or wrongly I've been trying to keep my volume (a) and my volume (b) separate from the full volume 1. Instead I kept them joined to other members who have the same a & b volumes I do. I tried the 'dinner party' test and went for stories that each of us actually have in the book we share. :-)
Now lately I'm having the frustrating experience of having these books repeatedly merged with the main volume. I've tried retitling my title to list the specific worlds covered. I've made a point of listing the (a) and the (b) in my book titles. I noted someone else had entered specific common knowledge to the (a) and the (b).
No dice. They keep getting merged. (and the CK is lost too).
Two questions:
Does my belief that these books are separate from the full edition agree with combiners thinking?
If it is, what suggestions do others have on how I can put further signals on each of my books to stop the ** combining with the main volume?
The first Legends volume was sold in some countries as two separate books. Let's call them (a) and (b).
Each of them has half the stories of the full Legends volume 1 edition. The covers differ too (vol a is a josh kirby cover, and vol b I think is kind of similar to the usual edition). They have different ISBNs.
They are physically different books. Admittedly with confusingly similar titles.
Rightly or wrongly I've been trying to keep my volume (a) and my volume (b) separate from the full volume 1. Instead I kept them joined to other members who have the same a & b volumes I do. I tried the 'dinner party' test and went for stories that each of us actually have in the book we share. :-)
Now lately I'm having the frustrating experience of having these books repeatedly merged with the main volume. I've tried retitling my title to list the specific worlds covered. I've made a point of listing the (a) and the (b) in my book titles. I noted someone else had entered specific common knowledge to the (a) and the (b).
No dice. They keep getting merged. (and the CK is lost too).
Two questions:
Does my belief that these books are separate from the full edition agree with combiners thinking?
If it is, what suggestions do others have on how I can put further signals on each of my books to stop the ** combining with the main volume?
2andyl
Yep I agree with you. I don't think that there is much you can do apart from keep separating.
Well put in disambiguation notices in CK of course but I don't think that people will read them. As I haven't combined anything with a disambiguation notice do they appear on the confirmation screen? If not maybe they should - it might make some people pause a little and think before hitting OK.
Well put in disambiguation notices in CK of course but I don't think that people will read them. As I haven't combined anything with a disambiguation notice do they appear on the confirmation screen? If not maybe they should - it might make some people pause a little and think before hitting OK.
3reading_fox
Yep I agree too, they should be seperate, and meet the LoTR criteria for being seperate.
It is possible to view the combinging history to find the user who has combined them, and leave a note to ask them not to.
It is possible to view the combinging history to find the user who has combined them, and leave a note to ask them not to.
4trollsdotter
Legends and Legends II were first issued (in the US and UK) as single volume hard covers. When it came to the pb releases of Legends, the American publisher (not sure about the UK) released 3 volumes and called them Legends 1, Legends 2 and Legends 3. The pb releases for Legends II at least had the stories as subtitles: Legends II: Dragon, Sword, and King and Legends II: Shadows, Gods, and Demons.
Since some people list Legends as Legends 1, and Legends II as Legends 2, there is no way at the present to permanently straighten out all of these different books. At least once every 9 months or so, I try to separate those that are clearly labeled by title, but it is a frustrating task.
Since some people list Legends as Legends 1, and Legends II as Legends 2, there is no way at the present to permanently straighten out all of these different books. At least once every 9 months or so, I try to separate those that are clearly labeled by title, but it is a frustrating task.
5ryn_books
>3 reading_fox: good advice.
I wasn't sure of the protocol moving forward in messaging someone who wasn't a member of combiners. However this is about a change made to global data - not just their catalogue so should be fine.
It's likely the two books will be (re)combined in future too. It's just happened a bit too often lately (who did it unknown as I've not checked history each time) .
This time I thought I'd throw it out to the group in case I was at odds to a combiners discussion about books like these...
Thanks for the comments. Any advice on how to more clearly mark them from the others IS welcomed too.
I wasn't sure of the protocol moving forward in messaging someone who wasn't a member of combiners. However this is about a change made to global data - not just their catalogue so should be fine.
It's likely the two books will be (re)combined in future too. It's just happened a bit too often lately (who did it unknown as I've not checked history each time) .
This time I thought I'd throw it out to the group in case I was at odds to a combiners discussion about books like these...
Thanks for the comments. Any advice on how to more clearly mark them from the others IS welcomed too.
6vpfluke
Now that we have series in CK, we can now keep things more separate. Then you can go over to the series listing and see the global wash for an umbrella title. The various "Legends" (Short novels, etc) of Silverberg et al perhaps need a consistent grouping in series. There is one series already created, but I doubt it carries everything published as yet.
7trollsdotter
Series won't really help because some of the books are messed up at the works level, and unseparatable with the current works concept. It bothers me in the way that Fellowship of the Ring being permanently stuck with Lord of the Rings would bother me. Also, series information isn't clearly available when combining on the debris or author pages.
8vpfluke
Putting things in series is a way to see what the problem might be. But the series tool won't solve any problems. I have put all the "Statistical Abstract of the United States" works into series to see how many duplicating titles there are and to have them laid out in order. I have to decide whether to combine two authors, 'U S Dept of Commerce' with 'U S Dept of Commerce Census Bureau' to be able to combine the Statistical Abstracts and then uncombine the authors later. This doesn't necessarily help with "Legends", but is the thought process I've had.
9FicusFan
I have wandered over to the group because of the Legends, Legends II issue.
What I noticed first was the problem with the series notations. Whoever did them at one point didn't understand about the first book being split into 3 in mmpb (in the US at least). And there was confusion about II and 2, and whether they were the same or could be interchanged on the series list. At that point the works seemed to be properly separated.
After that someone has combined II and 2, so that the wrong cover and title come up for me on book1, vol2. I get the US version of II for my book1, vol2. I have the tradepaper UK version of II, and the US mmpb versions of Legends vol2 and vol3 (vol1 didn't interest me).
I think the 3 separate ones shouldn't be combined with the main single book because its possible that you wouldn't have all 3 of the separate ones. If they were combined it would be incorrect to say you had that book when you might have only 1/3 or 2/3.
In any event II shouldn't ever be combined with Book1, Vol2. It seems that Amazon has them linked somewhere as the same book too.
Which brings me to a question/observation. When you try to combine or separate a book the system doesn't seem to give you enough information to make a correct decision. Or was I just in the wrong place ?
I would think that besides title and author it should list publisher, date of publication, ISBN, and type of book (PB,TP,HC). I realize that not all that information may be available, especially for older books, but it should at least try to list what it has of that data, and in one place so you aren't hoping from page to page.
I realize that might not help with the philosophical issues of what to combine, but it might help prevent books that are actually different from being combined.
What I noticed first was the problem with the series notations. Whoever did them at one point didn't understand about the first book being split into 3 in mmpb (in the US at least). And there was confusion about II and 2, and whether they were the same or could be interchanged on the series list. At that point the works seemed to be properly separated.
After that someone has combined II and 2, so that the wrong cover and title come up for me on book1, vol2. I get the US version of II for my book1, vol2. I have the tradepaper UK version of II, and the US mmpb versions of Legends vol2 and vol3 (vol1 didn't interest me).
I think the 3 separate ones shouldn't be combined with the main single book because its possible that you wouldn't have all 3 of the separate ones. If they were combined it would be incorrect to say you had that book when you might have only 1/3 or 2/3.
In any event II shouldn't ever be combined with Book1, Vol2. It seems that Amazon has them linked somewhere as the same book too.
Which brings me to a question/observation. When you try to combine or separate a book the system doesn't seem to give you enough information to make a correct decision. Or was I just in the wrong place ?
I would think that besides title and author it should list publisher, date of publication, ISBN, and type of book (PB,TP,HC). I realize that not all that information may be available, especially for older books, but it should at least try to list what it has of that data, and in one place so you aren't hoping from page to page.
I realize that might not help with the philosophical issues of what to combine, but it might help prevent books that are actually different from being combined.
10ATimson
#9: I would think that besides title and author it should list publisher, date of publication, ISBN, and type of book (PB,TP,HC). I realize that not all that information may be available, especially for older books, but it should at least try to list what it has of that data, and in one place so you aren't hoping from page to page.
The system gives you all of the information that it uses to differentiate between the books. It doesn't matter if two books have different ISBNs; if they have the same author/title, then on the combine page, it considers them the same book.
The system gives you all of the information that it uses to differentiate between the books. It doesn't matter if two books have different ISBNs; if they have the same author/title, then on the combine page, it considers them the same book.
11reading_fox
"publisher, date of publication, ISBN, and type of book (PB,TP,HC). "
These don't distinquish works. An edition may have differences in all of these fields and still be the same work as an another edition and hence should remain combined.
LT can only provide such information as it has available. Many users manually entere books and such don't provide this information.
These don't distinquish works. An edition may have differences in all of these fields and still be the same work as an another edition and hence should remain combined.
LT can only provide such information as it has available. Many users manually entere books and such don't provide this information.
12ryn_books
Sigh, it only took 9 days from the last separation for them to be all combined again.
If anyone else wants to separate them this time, they're more than welcome ...
If anyone else wants to separate them this time, they're more than welcome ...
13FicusFan
#9 The system gives you all of the information that it uses to differentiate between the books. It doesn't matter if two books have different ISBNs; if they have the same author/title, then on the combine page, it considers them the same book.
Are you saying that it automatically considers them the same book ? Doesn't someone, at some point have to actually combine them for the system to know they are the same ? If so then the more info you have the better decision you can make, either to combine, separate or leave it alone.
Perhaps I am using a different location, but when I press combine or separate the only information it lists is title and author, then it will ask again after you press combine/separate and again it only lists title and author.
Are you saying that it automatically considers them the same book ? Doesn't someone, at some point have to actually combine them for the system to know they are the same ? If so then the more info you have the better decision you can make, either to combine, separate or leave it alone.
Perhaps I am using a different location, but when I press combine or separate the only information it lists is title and author, then it will ask again after you press combine/separate and again it only lists title and author.
14ryn_books
>13 FicusFan: It's recommended for anyone combining or separating to check more than just title and author.
I usually click on the works first to check their other details, ISBN etc. Even Worldcat info if still not sure. And I'm training myself to remember to check if someone's done any CK too...
I usually click on the works first to check their other details, ISBN etc. Even Worldcat info if still not sure. And I'm training myself to remember to check if someone's done any CK too...
15FicusFan
#11 These don't distinquish works. An edition may have differences in all of these fields and still be the same work as an another edition and hence should remain combined.
LT can only provide such information as it has available. Many users manually entere books and such don't provide this information.
Yes they can be the same, but they can also be different, and so while it isn't an automatic answer it gives you more information so that you have a better chance of making the right decision.
For example the Legends book: In the US the first book was published by Tor, in the UK by Voyager. Legends II in the US was published by Del Rey, Voyager again published it in the UK. I would think if you could see that it was a different publisher you might do some more research before automatically combining it.
Similarly if you could see that one was a PB and another was a HC, but with the same publisher and author, yet a slightly different title you would be able to check if they were the same because one was the PB version of the HC.
I did say that not all the information is always available, but for those that have listings in Amazon, I was under the impression that the system loaded it from Amazon (which I know is a mixed blessing), when you entered the book.
LT can only provide such information as it has available. Many users manually entere books and such don't provide this information.
Yes they can be the same, but they can also be different, and so while it isn't an automatic answer it gives you more information so that you have a better chance of making the right decision.
For example the Legends book: In the US the first book was published by Tor, in the UK by Voyager. Legends II in the US was published by Del Rey, Voyager again published it in the UK. I would think if you could see that it was a different publisher you might do some more research before automatically combining it.
Similarly if you could see that one was a PB and another was a HC, but with the same publisher and author, yet a slightly different title you would be able to check if they were the same because one was the PB version of the HC.
I did say that not all the information is always available, but for those that have listings in Amazon, I was under the impression that the system loaded it from Amazon (which I know is a mixed blessing), when you entered the book.
16vpfluke
You do have to do the actual combining. The Debris page of the work shows combination possibilities, and if you're not careful, you can combine things that shouldn't be. If you use the author page for combining, then each uncombined work of that author has its own listing. If combination has been done for a work, then each version of the title and author that goes into that work shows in lesser type underneath. Neither dates nor ISBN numbers are shown with the combine possibilities. If I get confused about what's what, I go first to Worldcat, then I go to Library of Congress. After that it's a scramble. My current favorite is Cleveland Public, as it seems to have pretty consistent cataloging over the decades.
17MarthaJeanne
I've also had books jump into very wierd combinations on adding them. Now I check the work if the number of other members with it looks wierd.
18trollsdotter
> 9 I realize that might not help with the philosophical issues of what to combine, but it might help prevent books that are actually different from being combined.
I think that the hardest part about this type of issue is that no matter how much separating and organizing goes on, there will be a work out there that contains Legends II, the hardcover and Legends 2 the paperback, both with the title as Legends 2. I would keep this work completely separate from all the other works (and have when I've worked on the books in the past). Still someone will come along, not understanding the differences, and combine them with one or the other book, and then the whole cycle starts again.
Without monitoring the help page, it is impossible to know if this is one repeat "offender" or just anyone who has the books.
I wish LT used a more vigorous test than matching author and exact title before it combines books into a work.
I think that the hardest part about this type of issue is that no matter how much separating and organizing goes on, there will be a work out there that contains Legends II, the hardcover and Legends 2 the paperback, both with the title as Legends 2. I would keep this work completely separate from all the other works (and have when I've worked on the books in the past). Still someone will come along, not understanding the differences, and combine them with one or the other book, and then the whole cycle starts again.
Without monitoring the help page, it is impossible to know if this is one repeat "offender" or just anyone who has the books.
I wish LT used a more vigorous test than matching author and exact title before it combines books into a work.
19vpfluke
I think most people regard II and 2 as the same thing. "2 Chronicles" is the same book of the Bible as "II Chronicles". So, it's probably just random people 'trying to be helpful.'
20PortiaLong
First of all I would like to formally apologize - as one of the recent combinings was my fault. I had thought that I went back and separated the incorrect combinings but apparently I did not do a nearly adequate job. I am certainly not under the impression that Legends (Bk 1, vol 2) is the same work as Legends II - however "Legends 1 (no additional infomation" is ambiguous - is that Bk 1, vol 1 or the complete first collection?
One of the frustrations that led to my rampant combining stemmed from the difficulty of getting CORRECT combinations to occur when people use only one of the authors in an anthology as the author (or WORSE - no author at all) instead of the editor. One method that I have had luck with in the past is a mass combining, followed by a re-separation, and recombination of subsets.
Listing more information in the Title (Vol 1, Bk 2 or "11 short stories") can certainly help. And a disambiguation notice can warn people away. Unfortunately there are some works that lend themselves to error - for example collections/anthologies that take the name of one of the writings contained within, which was also published separately.
One might decide to not attempt to "clean up" such works and leave it to the individual entering the ambiguous work to combine it if they desire, however, many people seem to enter works and then let the software decide if it belongs to the same work and never go back and assign the item to the work to which it belongs. This leads to a plethora of individual "works" duplicated under an author.
I anticipate that what will eventually need to be implemented in the future to help with this issue will be a check-off box that indicates that a work is an anthology with an area to enter the number of subworks and allow it to cross-reference to all authors + the editor.
So again, my heartfelt apologies and a promise to be much more circumspect about such "combinings" in the future.
One of the frustrations that led to my rampant combining stemmed from the difficulty of getting CORRECT combinations to occur when people use only one of the authors in an anthology as the author (or WORSE - no author at all) instead of the editor. One method that I have had luck with in the past is a mass combining, followed by a re-separation, and recombination of subsets.
Listing more information in the Title (Vol 1, Bk 2 or "11 short stories") can certainly help. And a disambiguation notice can warn people away. Unfortunately there are some works that lend themselves to error - for example collections/anthologies that take the name of one of the writings contained within, which was also published separately.
One might decide to not attempt to "clean up" such works and leave it to the individual entering the ambiguous work to combine it if they desire, however, many people seem to enter works and then let the software decide if it belongs to the same work and never go back and assign the item to the work to which it belongs. This leads to a plethora of individual "works" duplicated under an author.
I anticipate that what will eventually need to be implemented in the future to help with this issue will be a check-off box that indicates that a work is an anthology with an area to enter the number of subworks and allow it to cross-reference to all authors + the editor.
So again, my heartfelt apologies and a promise to be much more circumspect about such "combinings" in the future.
21ryn_books
>20 PortiaLong: - Hey thanks for the message!
With this particular work it's never going to be perfect with the 'range' of ambiguous titles given. Thanks for taking the time to try and improve it all anyway.
And believe me - I'm sure most of us, at least once, have had moments we've combined some books, and later went Doh! upon learning of a particular nuance.
Cheers for checking out the thread discussion for future reference. All best, ryn
With this particular work it's never going to be perfect with the 'range' of ambiguous titles given. Thanks for taking the time to try and improve it all anyway.
And believe me - I'm sure most of us, at least once, have had moments we've combined some books, and later went Doh! upon learning of a particular nuance.
Cheers for checking out the thread discussion for future reference. All best, ryn
23ryn_books
I've had a short foray into trying to split them out again - mainly working by ISBN. I've got a migraine coming on though, so would appreciate it if anyone else is able to have a look at them...
24Nicole_VanK
Tim has added work disambiguation to combining confirm screen (http://www.librarything.com/topic/50296). Yay Tim.
I'll see what I can do, but am afraid I might mess things up again. (In case of doubt I'll abstain).
p.s.: this also means - someone who really understands this issue: please add disambiguation notices all over
I'll see what I can do, but am afraid I might mess things up again. (In case of doubt I'll abstain).
p.s.: this also means - someone who really understands this issue: please add disambiguation notices all over
25trollsdotter
>24 Nicole_VanK:
That's just awesome. They weren't there last night when I was combining. This weekend I had found a book that I had left separate with a disambiguation notice was combined and the notice now made no sense and thought how nice it would be if they showed when combining.
That's just awesome. They weren't there last night when I was combining. This weekend I had found a book that I had left separate with a disambiguation notice was combined and the notice now made no sense and thought how nice it would be if they showed when combining.
26Nicole_VanK
No, this is a brand new feature. Party time / group hug for us combiners.
27Nicole_VanK
Okay, did what I could. Mostly separating - and then recombining whatever has the same ISBN.
Frankly, I'm out of my depth from here on, so now I'm leaving the rest of it to people who actually know these books.
p.s.: In view of the confusion, I would hesitate to combine any of the foreign language versions (I've noticed Dutch, German and French translations - but of what exactly???)
Frankly, I'm out of my depth from here on, so now I'm leaving the rest of it to people who actually know these books.
p.s.: In view of the confusion, I would hesitate to combine any of the foreign language versions (I've noticed Dutch, German and French translations - but of what exactly???)
28ryn_books
Thanks Barking Matt.
There's probably a few over-split but on the whole they make more sense than they did last time I looked. I'm not sure how to add the CK series info - so I think the series page may be a little out of whack. Anyone who knows the CK nuances is welcome to inspect the main ones and make sure they all match up.
There's probably a few over-split but on the whole they make more sense than they did last time I looked. I'm not sure how to add the CK series info - so I think the series page may be a little out of whack. Anyone who knows the CK nuances is welcome to inspect the main ones and make sure they all match up.
29reading_fox
It's definetly oversplit. Which is inviting a helping hand to come and overcombine again! It is worse than I thought,
There should be
Legends (1) - 11 stories
And two sub works legends 1A (5 stories Pratchett, Pern, Wheel of time, Game of thrones, Tad Williams) and
1B (also called 2 but isn't) (6 stories Dark Tower, Sword of Truth, Tales of Alvin Maker, Majipoor, Earthsea, Riftwar Saga).
And also 3 sub works.
I
II
and III
Then there is Legends 2 (Also split ?) Contains stories/novellas by:
* Robin Hobb "Homecoming" (Realm of the Elderlings);
* George R.R. Martin "The Sworn Sword" (A Song of Ice and Fire);
* Orson Scott Card "The Yazoo Queen" (Tales of Alvin Maker);
* Diana Gabaldon "Lord John and the Succubus" (Outlander);
* Robert Silverberg "The Book of Changes" (Majipoor);
* Tad Williams "The Happiest Dead Boy in the World" (Otherland);
* Anne McCaffrey "Beyond Between" (Pern);
* Raymond E. Feist "The Messenger" (The Riftwar);
* Elizabeth Haydon "Threshold" (The Symphony of Ages);
* Neil Gaiman "The Monarch of the Glen" (American Gods);
* Terry Brooks "Indomitable" (Shannara).
and a Legends 3???? Which Blutyson lists as followinf - but I know these are legends 1 complete, (CONFUSED!)
Legends : The Little Sisters of Eluria Roland Gunslinger - Stephen King
Legends : The Sea and Little Fishes Discworld - Terry Pratchett
Legends : Debt of Bones Sword of Truth - Terry Goodkind
Legends : Grinning Man Alvin Maker - Orson Scott Card
Legends : The Seventh Shrine Majipoor - Robert Silverberg
Legends : Dragonfly Earthsea - Ursula K. Le Guin
Legends : The Burning Man Memory Sorrow and Thorn - Tad Williams
Legends : The Hedge Knight Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin
Legends : Runner of Pern Pern - Anne McCaffrey
Legends : The Wood Boy Riftwar - Raymond E. Feist
Legends : New Spring Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan
Mind you Amazon has 53 different works for the search legends, Silverberg so we aren't doing too badly!
I've not combined anythign yet, Can we add the series designator 'complete' to the full books and part x of y to those we are sure of.
What otherwise looks to be the complete 11 story book 1 had the Josh Kirby cover for the 5story bookA version which isn't helping me decide if it is the complete or not.
There should be
Legends (1) - 11 stories
And two sub works legends 1A (5 stories Pratchett, Pern, Wheel of time, Game of thrones, Tad Williams) and
1B (also called 2 but isn't) (6 stories Dark Tower, Sword of Truth, Tales of Alvin Maker, Majipoor, Earthsea, Riftwar Saga).
And also 3 sub works.
I
II
and III
Then there is Legends 2 (Also split ?) Contains stories/novellas by:
* Robin Hobb "Homecoming" (Realm of the Elderlings);
* George R.R. Martin "The Sworn Sword" (A Song of Ice and Fire);
* Orson Scott Card "The Yazoo Queen" (Tales of Alvin Maker);
* Diana Gabaldon "Lord John and the Succubus" (Outlander);
* Robert Silverberg "The Book of Changes" (Majipoor);
* Tad Williams "The Happiest Dead Boy in the World" (Otherland);
* Anne McCaffrey "Beyond Between" (Pern);
* Raymond E. Feist "The Messenger" (The Riftwar);
* Elizabeth Haydon "Threshold" (The Symphony of Ages);
* Neil Gaiman "The Monarch of the Glen" (American Gods);
* Terry Brooks "Indomitable" (Shannara).
and a Legends 3???? Which Blutyson lists as followinf - but I know these are legends 1 complete, (CONFUSED!)
Legends : The Little Sisters of Eluria Roland Gunslinger - Stephen King
Legends : The Sea and Little Fishes Discworld - Terry Pratchett
Legends : Debt of Bones Sword of Truth - Terry Goodkind
Legends : Grinning Man Alvin Maker - Orson Scott Card
Legends : The Seventh Shrine Majipoor - Robert Silverberg
Legends : Dragonfly Earthsea - Ursula K. Le Guin
Legends : The Burning Man Memory Sorrow and Thorn - Tad Williams
Legends : The Hedge Knight Song of Ice and Fire - George R. R. Martin
Legends : Runner of Pern Pern - Anne McCaffrey
Legends : The Wood Boy Riftwar - Raymond E. Feist
Legends : New Spring Wheel of Time - Robert Jordan
Mind you Amazon has 53 different works for the search legends, Silverberg so we aren't doing too badly!
I've not combined anythign yet, Can we add the series designator 'complete' to the full books and part x of y to those we are sure of.
What otherwise looks to be the complete 11 story book 1 had the Josh Kirby cover for the 5story bookA version which isn't helping me decide if it is the complete or not.
30Nicole_VanK
Oh, I definitely agree it must be oversplit and think somebody - maybe you - who knows what's what should do some recombining fast (before this gets all messed up again).
Making the designator complete, in parenthesis, part of the canonical title might be a good idea too.
Making the designator complete, in parenthesis, part of the canonical title might be a good idea too.
31reading_fox
Which stories are in each of the US 3way split books?
Was legends 2 split as well?
And there seems to be a bit of a combining lag anyway making things worse. Or an LT lag or something.
Was legends 2 split as well?
And there seems to be a bit of a combining lag anyway making things worse. Or an LT lag or something.
32ryn_books
re: "What otherwise looks to be the complete 11 story book 1 had the Josh Kirby cover for the 5story bookA version which isn't helping me decide if it is the complete or not."
I don't know if it helps, but ISBN 0006483941 is the ISBN of my Legends 1 (A) - the one with the Josh Kirby cover.
It's the ISBN for the 'special overseas edition'
I don't know if the ISBN was reused by the publisher for the 1-volume 11 story book. I really hope not. (edit to add - I suspect it was, or there's others still combined in the main one...)
I don't know if it helps, but ISBN 0006483941 is the ISBN of my Legends 1 (A) - the one with the Josh Kirby cover.
It's the ISBN for the 'special overseas edition'
I don't know if the ISBN was reused by the publisher for the 1-volume 11 story book. I really hope not. (edit to add - I suspect it was, or there's others still combined in the main one...)
33reading_fox
I think it might be lag... I have reviewed my copy of the 1A, which shows 29 members and 0 reviews nad add to library. The page for the complete version has my review and edit function even though my work isn't there.... will see how it looks tomorrow.
34ryn_books
thanks anyway. Appreciate the help.
At least with the changes with the disambiguation notice warnings (lovin' that!) - the odds of it happening again are a lot less.
cheers, ryn
At least with the changes with the disambiguation notice warnings (lovin' that!) - the odds of it happening again are a lot less.
cheers, ryn
35FicusFan
Book 1 in the US was split into 3 volumes when it went into paperback. The US publisher was TOR. I have volumes 2 and 3, 1 didn't interest me. On the books they used 1,2,3 not Roman Numerals (though sometimes Amazon is confused and uses Roman for the link even though its not on the book) . There are also some sub-titles that say "Stories By The Masters of Modern Fantasy". The paperback version 2 was published in 1999 and the paperback version of 3 was published in 2000.
Book II is an actual new book in the series and not to be confused with book 1 volume 2. The sub-title for this book is "New Short Novels by the Masters of Modern Fantasy". That can help separate b1.v2 from b2. Book II moved to Del Rey as the publisher in the US. This book also has Diana Gabaldon as a contributor, the first book did not. There are many other contributors that continue from Book 1 to Book II - the stories are set in the worlds they have major fantasy works in, so the stories in book II are supposed to be continuations of what was started in book 1. Book II was published first in the UK in 2003, by Voyager. So anything published from 2003 on should be Book II and books published earlier are versions of Book 1.
Even Amazon.UK is very confused they have Book II and book 1. V2 as the same book. They also use as a title link Legends V.2 for II.
I don't believe this book was split like the other. I think the previous split and time lag (Hardcover, Trade, 1 MM paperback per year (almost 7 years total)) was why the series changed publishers in the US.
There isn't a new Book 3 or III that I can see (other than book 1 volume 3).
There is an audio book version and it looks like it went to 4 volumes, but what book its for I don't know.
Can't say anything about the foreign language versions.
36reading_fox
#35 Can you list either here, or in your catalog what stories are contained in the parts you have. I can then work out what the remaining stories are, that belong in part 1. This will help quite a bit in sorting out which volumes belong together.
Maybe we should try and compile definitive ISBNs for each edition and list them here too.
Maybe we should try and compile definitive ISBNs for each edition and list them here too.
37reading_fox
and it looks like despite the disambiguation notices and everything else, someone has already combined book 1 part 1 of 3 with the complete book 1. AGAIN.
I've left polite comments for the two users I found in the log.
I've left polite comments for the two users I found in the log.
38FicusFan
I will try to find the books and post the lists here.
There really should be a way to lock certain works once they are properly separated/combined, with a way to legitimately add new books that belong.
The idea that we have to keep doing the same thing over and over is crazy.
There really should be a way to lock certain works once they are properly separated/combined, with a way to legitimately add new books that belong.
The idea that we have to keep doing the same thing over and over is crazy.
39PortiaLong
Legends 1 - Volume 1 - Short Novels by the Masters of Modern Fantasy - (paperback) ISBN 181256637
(Edited to Add: USA edition)
Contents:
Indroduction - Robert Silverberg
The Dark Tower: The Little Sisters of Eluria - Stephen King
Majipoor: The Seventh Shrine - Robert Silverberg
Tales of Alvin Maker: Grinning Man - Orson Scott Card
The Riftwar Saga: The Wood Boy - Raymond E. Feist
Legends II - New Short Novels by The Masters of Modern Fantasy - (Hardcover) ISBN 0345456440
contains -
Stories Listed in #29 under "Legends 2"
Since the stories in Listed in #29 under Legends 3 overlap with my Legends 1 - I think that what bluetyson has listed as Legends 3 is actually the complete Legends (the first one, containing 11 stories which was divided into Legends 1,2,3)
(Edited to Add: USA edition)
Contents:
Indroduction - Robert Silverberg
The Dark Tower: The Little Sisters of Eluria - Stephen King
Majipoor: The Seventh Shrine - Robert Silverberg
Tales of Alvin Maker: Grinning Man - Orson Scott Card
The Riftwar Saga: The Wood Boy - Raymond E. Feist
Legends II - New Short Novels by The Masters of Modern Fantasy - (Hardcover) ISBN 0345456440
contains -
Stories Listed in #29 under "Legends 2"
Since the stories in Listed in #29 under Legends 3 overlap with my Legends 1 - I think that what bluetyson has listed as Legends 3 is actually the complete Legends (the first one, containing 11 stories which was divided into Legends 1,2,3)
40Nicole_VanK
>39 PortiaLong:: Is that the British or the American volume 1 ?
41PortiaLong
>40 Nicole_VanK: - sorry, American
Furthermore, the Legends 1 I have says on the back:
"Look for Legends II (featuring Terry Goodkind, George R.R. Martin, Anne McCaffery) and Legends III (featuring Robert Jordan, Ursula K. Le Guin, Tad Williams, Terry Pratchett) at your local bookstore!"
So apparently even the publisher didn't consistently refer to them as 1,2,3 for the subworks of the first and II to distinguish the second set.
Furthermore, the Legends 1 I have says on the back:
"Look for Legends II (featuring Terry Goodkind, George R.R. Martin, Anne McCaffery) and Legends III (featuring Robert Jordan, Ursula K. Le Guin, Tad Williams, Terry Pratchett) at your local bookstore!"
So apparently even the publisher didn't consistently refer to them as 1,2,3 for the subworks of the first and II to distinguish the second set.
42apple2e
I was looking at my paperback copy of Legends (Pratchett/McCaffrey/Martin/Williams/Jordan) and noticed that the publisher did not see fit to update Robert Silverberg's introduction when they split the book - it starts "Here is a book of visions and miracles - eleven rich, robust new stories by the best known and most accomplished modern creators of fantasy fiction, each one set in the special universe of the imagination that made that writer famous throughout the world."
Nowhere does it mention the existence of the other portions of the complete work... if I was not an LT member I would not have known what I was missing.
Nowhere does it mention the existence of the other portions of the complete work... if I was not an LT member I would not have known what I was missing.
43reading_fox
Thanks PortiaLong that's very useful.
It looks like Legends II was also split into at least 2 parts the Demons and the Dragon editions.
I've inlcuded them in the series descriptions but there are still several unknown editions around.
It looks like Legends II was also split into at least 2 parts the Demons and the Dragon editions.
I've inlcuded them in the series descriptions but there are still several unknown editions around.
44FicusFan
It looks like you are right about Legends II (US version) going into two mass market paperbacks. They were published on the same day.
I found this from a user on Amazon for the Demons book
Realm Of The Elderlings: Homecoming- Robin Hobb
Majipoor: The Book Of Changes- Robert Silverberg
Otherland: The Happiest Dead Boy In The World- Tad Williams
Pern: Beyond Between- Anne McCaffrey
The Riftwar: The Messenger- Raymond E. Feist
American Gods: The Monarch Of The Glen- Neil Gaiman
The Dragons edition seems to list 5 authors on the cover.
I haven't been able to find my copies of book 1 vol 2 & 3, or Book II. They aren't in the "S" part of my shelves for either mass market or trade, which means I ran out of shelf space by the time I got them. So they are in one of the piles/stacks and I have no idea which one. Sorry.
If I find them in my travels I will post the information, though you may have it from another source by then.
45FicusFan
I have been winterizing my windows, so I have had to move books around and I found my Legends II book. It is the second book, not Volume 2 of the first book.
Legends II, Edited by Robert Silverberg
It is a trade paperback, Published by Voyager, its from UK, ISBN: 0-00-715436-4, it was published in 2004, the hardcover in the UK in 2003.
The stories:
Homecoming by Robin Hobb
The Sworn Sword by George R. R. Martin
The Yazoo Queen by Orson Scot Card
Lord John and the Succubus by Diana Gabaldon
The Book of Changes by Robert Silverberg
The Happiest Dead Boy in the World by Tad Williams
Beyond Between by Anne McCaffrey
The Messenger by Raymond E. Feist
Threshold by Elizabeth Haydon
The Monarch of the Glen by Neil Gaiman
Indomitable by Terry Brooks
Legends II, Edited by Robert Silverberg
It is a trade paperback, Published by Voyager, its from UK, ISBN: 0-00-715436-4, it was published in 2004, the hardcover in the UK in 2003.
The stories:
Homecoming by Robin Hobb
The Sworn Sword by George R. R. Martin
The Yazoo Queen by Orson Scot Card
Lord John and the Succubus by Diana Gabaldon
The Book of Changes by Robert Silverberg
The Happiest Dead Boy in the World by Tad Williams
Beyond Between by Anne McCaffrey
The Messenger by Raymond E. Feist
Threshold by Elizabeth Haydon
The Monarch of the Glen by Neil Gaiman
Indomitable by Terry Brooks
46lachapakhan
not that anyone seems to have been adding to this thread in a while, but after having given up on these books a long while ago, i was pleased to visit it and see that my books all seem to be properly designated -- my us and uk versions are properly combined, and the paperback '2' i bought thinking it was 'II' is nicely separated out...
thank you all for your work with this complicated jumble. :)
thank you all for your work with this complicated jumble. :)
