Fablelistik Editions - Possible New Fine Press

There’s been a lot of chatter on the Suntup/Centipede Press fan pages on FB today about what looks potentially like a new fine press launching 10/1 called Fablelistik Editions, seemingly with a version of The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. There is an Instagram account of someone who says they are the director of Fablelistik Editions with what appears to be pictures of a book being bound by hand, a partial page of text which appears to be from that story, and part of an illustration, among other things. There aren’t any details of anything yet - they’re just posting pictures every couple days with a countdown to the October 1 launch date. There are rumors that Paul Suntup is involved since it seems he said he was working on that title, though the trademark for the name of the press is supposedly held by Macmillan. There are also some teaser images in the FB fans group that show a partially finished book that looks to be 13” tall and text that looks as though it may be letterpress.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DARtHgSSSyF/?igsh=c2s3dTdoZDZ3OHM0

Sounds potentially interesting. Thanks for sharing.

>1 jsg1976: Intriguing, thanks. I'll go ahead and follow them on there now and see what manifests.

Latest instagram post indicates that they've got Gregory Manchess illustrating their first book. He's a busy guy these days!

The book can be seen here: https://www.instagram.com/p/DAd7Fd0p0_d/
It looks like a three piece Bradel binding with a red leather spin and seems to be paper on the boards depicting trees. I get a horror novel feel from it.

>7 David_Mauduit: It’s Sleepy Hollow. They posted a snippet of that book’s text at some point.

>7 David_Mauduit: I like it, seems quite suitable for Sleepy Hollow.

Here is some more info: https://www.rarebookhub.com/articles/3723

>11 Ragnaroekk: Crazy...
325 numbered...
2500 collector editions

Maybe 2,500 collector editions is not so crazy if they are priced similarly to a Folio Society SE. I seem to recall reading that a FS SE limitation is around 2 or 3,000. If so I welcome it. Folio SE's need more competition.

I note the collector edition will have an acrylic slipcase. No Reply's science fiction series used a lucite slipcase which I think worked rather well although they are slim volumes. It will be interesting to see if Fablelistik Editions make acrylic slipcases as standard for their collector editions.

Anyway, the cover looks attractive and I am very happy to see another new press.

>12 Pendrainllwyn: "Folio SE's need more competition".

Good point. Folio seem quite relaxed at the moment, playing with price increases etc.

>12 Pendrainllwyn: if they are priced similarly to a FS SE they are going to present a much better value! Well, we will know this in a few hours

Color me interested. Will depend on the pricing. Signed up for announcements.

>12 Pendrainllwyn: FS has a lot more marketing infrastructure to move that number of copies.

But also it looks like this is an imprint of some larger publisher? Or has some such relationship? I didn't quite read carefully enough.

>13 Pendrainllwyn: Acrylic slipcases are still fairly uncommon, and I agree that they do work nicely with the right book design. A couple other instances I've seen are St James Park Press's Animal Farm and Salvage Press's Nine Silences.

>17 abysswalker: Fablelistik Editions is registered under the Macmillan Publishing Group

>17 abysswalker: According to Wikipedia, Macmillan Publishers (around since 1843) are one of the big five English language publishers along with Penguin Random House, Hachette, HarperCollins and Simon & Schuster. So bigger than Folio Society.

>20 Pendrainllwyn: Macmillan is much, much bigger than FS. I find it interesting that a major publisher is returning to the fine press movement. There was a time when that wasn't a rarity. Random House did this back in the nineteen twenties and thirties. distributing or co-publishing press books. One such partnership was with England's Nonesuch Press and a notable RH issue was Walt Whitman's Leaves of Grass printed for them by the Grabhorns (1930).

That Macmillan is returning to this tradition is encouraging.

>21 Glacierman: Indeed, they are one of the Big Five publishers. That list in full:

- Penguin/Random House
- Hachette Book Group
- Harper Collins
- Simon and Schuster
- Macmillan

>22 Shadekeep: There's been so much consolidation over the years I can't keep up with who's who any more! Random House bought Knopf years ago and Crown was another major label (an imprint of the remainder house, Outlet Book Company) but it, too, was acquired by Random (in 1988). Since then, there's been so much consolidation. Heck, even Scribner's got sucked up.

The American firm of Macmillan, Inc., no longer exists. The British Macmillan Publishers is the one we're talking about with Fabelistik.

I am most curious to see what the shipping charge will be since their releases will be staggered over the course of the year as opposed to FS's collection approach.

>23 Glacierman: Aye, US Macmillan is under the German firm Holtzbrinck Publishing Group. I would assume the UK firm Macmillan Publishers Ltd is the one referred to as being part of the Big Five. Unless that list already needs revision again.

Pre-orders and pricing are up. Lettered at $3950, Numbered at $895, Collector's at $265

Collectors' editions are not signed and not letterpress printed + currently shipping is only available to the US

>28 Ragnaroekk: Unfortunately not as it is in their FAQ that they only ship within the US. Hopefully they will ship internationally at some point!

Regarding shipping, they say: "Keep checking back as we plan to be selling and shipping internationally soon!"

So, if you’re outside the US, you will lose out on rights from the starting block...

It looks promising but the prices do indeed seem high.

The photography and the communications from this press come across like amateur hour, I can't believe a major trade publishing house is behind this. A book announced every few months with enormous edition sizes and no track record? I am expecting this to crash and burn, I wouldn't risk your money.

Well, Pat Randle at Nomad is doing the letterpress. That's a plus.

>26 mholt: And for that reason, I’m out.

>32 edkennedy: I agree. Even after launch, the website is still not fully filled out, there are some bugs present, and the lack of high-quality photos depicting the books themselves doesn't resonate as a professional team being behind

At $895 I would expect the numbered edition to be quarter bound in something better than genuine leather.

The lettered edition looks great but at 10x14 it's very large. If stone leaf veneer boards are what I think they are then it may well be a heavy book too.

>28 Ragnaroekk: Overall the prices seem a little very expensive compared to the usual candidates.

Agreed. The high prices will save me money as I am going to pass.

Easy pass for me even though this is easily in my top ten titles. Macmillan needs to get out of the fine press space. I don't need another billion dollar corp trying to gouge me as a collector.

Feels a bit like some wires got crossed in a big bureaucracy. Hope they can sort it out because there's no reason a big publishing house shouldn't be able to leverage their distribution network and resources to make fine press more available. Needs someone with taste and vision at the design helm though, like Bruce Rogers with Riverside.

That limitation for the lowest state seems crazy at almost $300 with no letterpress or blockbuster author etc. Who are the 3000+ people that are going to buy that?

Sleepy Hollow seems like an odd choice to launch with, too. It's a quite short story and something a bit more popular might have gotten them more momentum.

Riccardi or Medici has a true fine press edition of Sleepy Hollow that was printed on handmade paper and can be found quite cheaply, though condition varies greatly.

Compared with the other new press announced recently Morning Bell, with their gorgeous and detailed Pinocchio a true passion project, this comes across as a low effort money grab. I urge all to demand more from presses, or low effort is all we will get.

I don't mean to be harsh but come on this is ridiculous.

No sense in piling on, so I'll just say that, for fun, I ran their hints for their next three books through ChatGPT and got:

December: The First Fifteen Lives of Harry August - Claire North
January: The Night Circus by Erin Morgenstern or The Secret History by Donna Tartt
February: Dark Matter by Blake Crouch or The Infinite Game by James P. Othmer (hard to tell if this is even a real book, though)

Two inexplicably priced editions today - this, and the signed FS Dune.

OK, I will pile on by saying that I'll simply wait for the inevitable sales.

>40 edkennedy: ugly made books and overpriced. All they care is making a huge profit

>44 curiousbook: Couldn't agree more. Numbered is absolutely ridiculous at $900.

>41 A.Nobody: The December clue sounds like it could be The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue by V.E. Schwab

I'll definitely be passing on this

>46 mholt: Another easy pass.

>39 edkennedy: I urge all to demand more from presses, or low effort is all we will get.
Agreed.

An overwhelmingly poor response from those here. I wonder what the broader response has been. You have to think this is a missed opportunity. If you were starting a new business wouldn't you want to cultivate a positive brand image at the outset by exceeding customer expectations?

Just spent a few minutes on their site and, yeah, I'm in agreement that it's a pretty awful launch. Apart from the overpricing, restrictions on shipping and lack of good photos, here's a few things I noticed which make it come across as amateurish and untested:
- On the 'Editions' page, no pricing information is given until you click 'Pre Order Now', when it immediately adds it to your cart at the previously unknown price.
- If you click pre order on the Lettered, it adds it to you basket and brings up a message saying 'You may also like the Lettered Edition'. Even though you've just ordered the Lettered and you're only allowed to buy one.
- Looking at the photos of the Collector's Edition it brings up a very rough b&w sketch. So, is that what is actually going to be in the book? Or is it just a rough preliminary image? Doesn't say.
- No wonder the prices are so high, because there's a team of 8 people behind this (not even including the artist, printer and binder who actually make the book).

And yeah, what planet are they on hoping to sell 2500 Collector's editions at $265. And why is it even worth $265? I see nothing in the specs to justify that price; it seems like a pretty standard deluxe trade hardcover.

Anyway, probably a good thing. The market is becoming saturated these days and I'd rather spend my money on new presses run by truly passionate individuals, not corporate entities, which offer good value for money, such as Lyra's, CTP and Curious King.

>51 Ragnaroekk: Make that 2500 offset collector editions.

Hurm, the Numbered edition is the only one which tempts me, and that's largely premised on it being from the hands of Pat Randle and Roger Grech. The Collector tier is hideous, it reminds me of the so called Art Novel™ line from Bond & Grace, who seem to believe that books are meant to be props for online personas rather than things to be read. The Lettered just seems unwieldy and I assume the price there is due to the extras and the limitation.

Probably going to pass, as much as I love the work of Randle and Grech. It does save me from collecting another press's output, since none of their postulated upcoming titles appeal in the least.

>53 Shadekeep: Better to save your money for the real deal from Randle/Grech - the forthcoming 'Moving' from Nomad Letterpress. Although it's obviously a different type of book, it's interesting to compare the value proposition with what's on offer here. The standard edition of 'Moving' costs not much more than the Collector's edition of 'Sleepy Hollow' (and is well under half the price of the numbered) and for that you get full letterpress, zerkall paper, 35 beautiful woodcuts printed direct from the blocks, hand bound by Grech and a limitation of 130.

>54 Levin40: Oh yes my friend, I already have that one reserved. I'm a big Paynter fan as well, so this book hits the trifecta for me.

I emailed them, and got a nice response. Here's a couple of things:

1)The email I received a reply from is a Macmillan Publishers address, so Macmillan is clearly supporting them. Huge publisher https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macmillan_Publishers

2)I told them that while many collectors are excited, the price is very off-putting. They said: "Your feedback is similar to a lot of what I've been hearing with regards to our first collection. I've addressed this on other social media platforms but am happy to tell you as well - I absolutely plan for Fablelistik to be a success and I'm listening to all the feedback and adjusting all future titles to reflect both specs and price points that align with expectations. Our next title will be available for pre orders on 12/3 and the three offerings in that collection will really be something special. In fact, I was with the author yesterday..."

So I'm happy to hear it sounds like they're taking the constructive criticism well, that they'll adjust price, and that they're working with a living author. I think this bodes well, and we will see!

>57 astropi: the three offerings in that collection will really be something special

Well, that's exactly what they said before the initial release, so pardon my restraint.

>58 drizzled: I totally understand. That said, I really do hope they "fix" the errors from their first book. Also, since it's a living author I'm super curious to see who it is and what they do. If they can tap-in to the numerous authors that have published with Macmillan, they might be able to offer some truly unique fine-press editions.

Hopefully along with all of the other issues they plan to address, they can do something about that name.

Doesn't sound like they plan to address the price on Sleepy Hollow, just the next titles. Guess I'll just wait and hope for a Black Friday sale!

>60 Nightcrawl: Oh good, it's not just me who stumbles over it then. It's a bit of a letter salad too, with far too many thin vertical characters impeding easy visual scanning.

In their defense, I will say that as a person who has to come up with unique names for a lot of fantasy characters and creatures, a huge swath of the obvious and easy names are already in use out there on the internet. It's increasingly difficult to come up with something that is simple, memorable, and speaks to your intent while still being original.

>57 astropi: well did they lower their price for their sleepy hollow edition? This sounds like a robotic email. Of course they gonna say that to you. They think they’re something special but I don’t see anything special. their first production speaks for itself, just inflated prices of a newcomer who thinks they all that. Collectors need to bring them back to earth

>63 curiousbook: Definitely not a robotic email. I'm hoping they lower prices going forward, and I hope they succeed. Looking forward to finding out what their next work is, and here's to hoping they lower the price on Sleepy. By the way, what do people think would be a fair price for the numbered Sleepy?

>64 astropi: from what I saw on their page no more than $450 to $500 for their middle tier edition and no more than $150 for their lowest tier edition.

>65 curiousbook: For such a short work I would agree. Honestly, even $500 for the numbered is arguably a bit high. $325 is what I would have thought their price-point should be.

>66 astropi: for the first time, I completely agree to $325. Now you talking.

>67 curiousbook: $324!

As long as the works are only available to US customers they will struggle. Trying to sell almost 3000 copies would be tough, but limiting it to one country (albeit a large one) seems unrealistic at almost any price point

They're definitely taking the Suntup approach, including offering clues as to their next releases :)



My guesses --
Dec 3: Picture of Dorian Gray

Jan 7: The Secret History by Donna Tartt

Feb 4: Ready Player One by Ernest Cline

For me, who doesn’t reside in the US, they are completely irrelevant. All the private and fine presses I buy from, wherever they are in the world, ship internationally. So, that a giant like Macmillan doesn’t manage, is just amateurish and off-putting...

>68 grifgon: Bob, I’m going to go with $1.

>72 What_What: ¢99! And not a penny more!

>68 grifgon: let’s make it $323 to make everyone happy

Price to value is just not there for this first offering.

>75 NotSoSlimShady: 100% agreed

>70 astropi: If the December 3rd is the collection they’re speaking to the author about my guess would be The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue, they seem to like fantasy and Tor is an imprint of Macmillan. Would love to have a nice edition of The Secret History.

>70 astropi: >77 yolana: I suspect the January 7th title is Ninth House by Leigh Bardugo. Once again, that is a Macmillan book. I think I see a pattern.

>77 yolana: >78 Redshirt: Frankly, if they were to stick to fine publications of their own titles that are otherwise unlikely to receive the fine press treatment, then I would have a lot more appreciation for what they’re doing.

I probably still wouldn’t be a customer, at least not for the titles mentioned so far, but it would make it more akin to a trade publisher doing their own limited editions, just more elevated.

>80 Ragnaroekk: That book had such a great premise but the execution was a big let down and for me the author failed to do anything interesting with it or write an compelling character study. I could not finish it.

>82 Ragnaroekk: I did notice a new clue for a March title announcement "UPCOMING Deep below the Earth lies a world beyond imagination.". There is some speculation that an upcoming Conversation Tree Press title illustrated by Tom Kidd might be Journey to the Center of the Earth based on a partial image they posted. I wonder if there will be an overlap here.

>83 mholt: Except with a larger print run and more expensive. ;)

For those interested in such things, there's an 8-minute video of Gregory Manchess working on one of his Sleepy Hollow illustrations. It had something of a Zen quality for me :)

They now have a website at https://fablelistikeditions.com/
Collector's edition looks pretty basic for US$265.
They now state in their FAQ "We are planning to open international pre-orders in the beginning of 2025​! "

>86 wcarter: The different state production updates looks straight out of Suntup, although I don't know if he originated it. It's a very handy visualization.

>87 A.Godhelm: It’s not that innovative is it? All these books have the same sequential, mutually exclusive steps, and it’s accompanied now by a checkmark showing its status.

>87 A.Godhelm: this 'small' press definitely likes to be...inspired by others. Honestly surprised this thread didn't blow up after their Abercrombie/sub press Facebook debacle. The fact they grabbed ownership of the fan group and closed it because of their own bad behavior is wild to me. 😂

>89 NotSoSlimShady: What happened?

>90 edkennedy: I would recommend more perspectives than just my own. But in essence, there were some legit questions to sub press about continuing their longstanding Abercrombie collection. Sub Press stated that they attempted for the rights but were told 'no'. This upset the sub press fans who had concerns that Fabelistik - an offshoot from Mcmillian (who has Abercrombie rights) would begin closing off doors to what was a pretty positive small press community.

This understandably made many people angry (I do not collect Abercrombie books so I don't really care). However, this somewhat confirmed that Mcmillian / Fabelistik was not dealing honestly in their entrance into the small press world.

After some critical feedback from the small press community on their page / fan page, the main mouthpiece from Fabelistik stated that they experienced threats (despite the majority of people - and even other small press leaders) expressing that critical feedback is different than threats. The group was then transitioned from one notable small press figure to the Fabelistik mouthpiece - who closed the 'fan' group.

It's a rough look but the backlash is very called for in my opinion. But as always, I recommend looking into other perspectives! Bill from Sub Press made a very open post about this on his Facebook group and fan group.

>90 edkennedy: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/6Pyi3NM9A61sKSRv/

>92 NotSoSlimShady:. Wow, unbelievable. Many of us had suspicions about these guys last month and this information appears to bear out those suspicions. They're blocking titles being published by small presses while simultaneously trying to force their way into the small press supply chains. I for one won't be buying anything from them. I've never even heard of their next title anyway.

I would also note that this will additionally impact the publication of further Abercrombie titles by Curious King.

If they were smart about this they'd focus on their stable of titles that other small presses aren't interested in, by which they could build a unique brand and angle. The obvious niche to me is not trying to convert the existing small press customers as much as trying to reel in the mainstream customers to a higher quality product. More recent titles, more focus on pop hits perhaps. That way you could coexist and retain goodwill instead of becoming another case of corporate enshittification.

>95 A.Godhelm: Their next title seem to fit exactly into the approach you describe.

>96 David_Mauduit: Yes, though it's hard to tell what they're going for with only two titles. The Facebook drama suggests there won't be coexistence with other publishers however. They only just started this venture so it's possible they can be swayed by the feedback. I'm cynical but there's always a chance.

>92 NotSoSlimShady:

I don't have an account, so can't read this, unfortunately. What does it say?

>98 SF-72: Posted by Bill from Subterranean Press:

"Hey all, Please consider this a snapshot of how I see things at the moment:

Early this year, I contacted Chris, the Sub Rights Director at Macmillan about publishing a signed, limited edition of THE DEVILS by Joe Abercrombie. We’ve published limited editions of all of Joe’s books to date, but THE DEVILS is his first with a new publisher. New publisher, new relationships, new parameters.
I made an offer, which was declined, and I was told that Macmillan planned to do something in-house.

Last week, I followed up to see if the situation had changed, and again received a polite no.

When someone in this group asked if we were publishing a limited, I mentioned the status of our offer. What followed was a number of people posting in the Fans of Fablelistik Editions Group.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I received an email from Chris asking if my offer was still on the table, with a few conditions Macmillan wanted to include. I thought it best to call Chris and I made it clear to him exactly what I posted in the SubPress Readers Group, and that I had not intended to instigate and had not participated in the contentiousness in the Fans of Fablelistik group.

We chatted about THE DEVILS, that I felt it necessary to be public about our proposed edition being turned down because of our long history with Joe, and touched on the couple of conditions Macmillan wanted included in any agreement for a SubPress edition. We didn’t reach any resolution, but the chat was positive, and we agreed to talk again.

Later that day, Chris sent an email to Taylor Armstrong (the head of Fablelistik Editions) and me, introducing us. Taylor and I spoke that afternoon.
What I came away with was the sense that, while Fablelistik has a firm grasp on book production, and reaching larger audiences, they don’t fully understand the nature of our specific collectors’ market, as evidenced by the disastrous manner in which information about the press was rolled out. Our most ardent readers are a protective lot, which has served small presses well through the years. Many of them got their hackles up.

Taylor and I agreed to continue our discussions. Based upon my initial call, I’m comfortable that there’s room us to co-exist and that the fears that they are going to hold back rights en masse is overblown.

Now, to offer some transparency:

Here’s part of an email I sent to Taylor:

Though I would appreciate the generosity, please don’t send me anything of Fablelistik’s unless I’ve paid for it, or we agree you want my input on some issue. Next week, I’m going to post that we talked, and we’ll pick each other’s brains from time to time, as I do with a very few other presses. It’s important for my reputation, and to help you reset yours, that we’re clear our discussions are generated by goodwill rather than any form of compensation.

More transparency: Fabelistik doesn’t sell books through other retailers. Should that change, I may wish to offer certain titles to our customers. I have no knowledge that their policy will change.

I’m not so naïve as to think that there are no decisions that will be made higher up that will not be in our favor. I hope my relationship with Fablelistik will be friendly and cooperative, but if I don’t believe we’re receiving a good faith exchange of information, or that SubPress’ concerns aren’t being considered, I’ll walk.
I think we all catastrophized Macmillan’s entrance into the world of specialty press publishing, in no small part because they weren’t transparent. I’ll be urging them to share as much information as they can, as a subsidiary of a larger corporation, and hope they can be of benefit to us all.

Some will boycott Fablelistik as a matter of course, which is fine. I’m of the mind that there’s potential for them to bring out some great books that other small presses haven’t.

We’ll see."

>99 mholt:

Thank you very much. I really like Abercrombie and collect the Subterranean Press editions (as well as Curious King) and them shutting out a publisher who has done really nice editions so far is not pleasant.

>99 mholt: Thanks for sharing this. It smacks of the reflexively patrician attitudes you see at a many big corporations. Once they get a whiff of the filthy lucre they tend to circle the wagons and send out the guns. Would be nice if this time it plays out differently.

>100 What_What: What a dog's dinner.

The market has shown it is discerning and that's healthy. It would have been depressing had everything flown off the shelves at those prices. It will be interesting to see the prices for their next launch on Dec 1 and how long they hold onto Sleepy Hollow inventory before offering a sale.

>94 Ragnaroekk: Suntup is publishing its own edition of Sleepy Hollow?

One thing people like that don't seem to get is that there's room for more than one release in this kind of market.

>94 Ragnaroekk: Do we know the timeframe for Suntup's Sleepy Hollow?

New editions have been revealed:
https://fablelistikeditions.com/collections/the-invisible-life-of-addie-larue

As usually, very poor quality pictures. Feels very amateurish.
I don't find the design very special and the prices are still extremely high.

>112 David_Mauduit: Holy cats, those photos are indeed atrocious. Those are the blurry photos one expects from the less skilled Abebooks listers, not a house with a one of the major publishers behind them.

And, wow, still no international shipping! Not that I would want any of their first titles anyway...

2500 copies of the Collector’s Edition is an absolutely insane decision. They won’t ever be able to sell that much copies, even half of that would be a huge ask.

In their defense, I believe this new edition, price-wise, is in line with what other presses are doing at the moment and a step in the right direction after Sleepy Hollow. The Numbered, for instance, is $725 for a lengthy letterpress-printed novel, made with nice materials, and with some bells and whistles, and a limitation of 250. With that said, I can't dispute the other points mentioned above about the website being lackluster and the Collector's run of 2,500 being ridiculous. I'll add that the number of illustrations is disappointing - two single-page spreads and two 2-page 4-color spreads - in the Numbered. The Collector's apparently only has 3 Polaroids - there's no mention of other illustrations.

I suspect these are getting printed offset? At least, the Collector’s Edition is confirmed to be offset and the lower limitation editions don't say either way.

>116 A.Nobody: Aye, the Numbered isn't a terrible price for what is ostensibly a Nomad book, and is probably the most attractively designed of the three. (I'd personally still rather spend the money on a direct Nomad title though.) And props at least for trying to make the bottom tier somewhat unique with the inclusion of the Polaroids, though the print run "limitation" is way out scope. Assuming the Polaroids are genuine originals, that means they had to take at least 7500 of them for the books...

Giving only the lettered edition what you might call a decent number of illustrations is a really bad joke for me. If that's how they work - the Collector's Edition being bare bones in that regard, and the numbered edition being barely better with just four illustrations - I'd never but this or another title from them. And as has been said, the presentation and photos are amateurish.

>117 921Jack: You have to hit the individual title pages for the details: https://fablelistikeditions.com/collections/the-invisible-life-of-addie-larue/pr...

Here's the full specs on the Numbered:
· Print run of 250
· Bound by Shepherds Bookbinders
· Letterpress printed on munken lynx rough paper by Pat Randle & Ellen Bills (Nomad Letterpress)
· 448 pages
· 7 x 10
· Quarter goatskin leather binding with handmade Nepalese lokta paper with copper foiled hand screen printed blossom garden design over the boards
· Rigid slipcase in japanese black mohair cloth
· Black satin ribbon marker
· Edges sprinkled with copper and black calligraphy inks
· Includes two single page spreads and two 2-page 4-color spreads from Dina Brodsky
· Includes an exclusive in-world map of Manhattan and Brooklyn designed by Virginia Allyn
· Includes exclusive designed insert that includes signatures from all artists and collaborators

>120 Shadekeep: Strange to choose the Lynx paper instead of the Pure. Usually publishers select whiter papers for illustrations but here that is not relevant. If the weight of the paper is not high it is also not that high end for a Numbered edition. For example, most of CTP standard editions are in Munken Pure Rough 120 gsm.

>121 David_Mauduit: It's because even though all the actual work is being done by reputable craftsman, the publisher still selects the materials and this publisher doesn't have a clue what they're doing in regards to fine press.

This press is like a wish.com version of Lyra’s but with actual Lyra’s pricing.

>120 Shadekeep: Good to know. I did not realize the titles were links lol

>112 David_Mauduit: I am unable to understand the justification for the $185 price of the Collector's Edition. No art, no slipcase, not signed, and an egregious print run.

>125 drizzled: Laser-cut wooden bird pasted to cover and possible chance of getting one of the signed Polaroids? Hmm, thin gruel if so...

>125 drizzled: tbh I suspect we (people who are frequenting places like this, a forum dedicated to fine press books) are not necessarily their target audience. I imagine they are more interested in finding people who are fans of the author / fans of the book versus people more interested in the craft of fine bookmaking itself.

I agree, $185 seems like a ridiculous amount of money to be charging, but I also don't know much about V.E. Schwab. Wikipedia says The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue was on the NYT bestsellers list for 37 consecutive weeks relatively recently, so maybe a market for a book like this exists amongst all of those readers. Makes me wonder if we are going to start seeing "fine press" editions of books like "Fourth Wing" - I imagine those would fly off the shelf regardless of the price tag / edition size.

>127 921Jack: I read The Invisible Life of Addie LaRue two years ago and was disappointed as I had had high hopes for the premise. The prose was good. However, it might be an age/gender issue; I'm not very hip. I might buy a Folio Society effort.

>127 921Jack: I think you've nailed it - these are books aimed at fans of the author, not at fans of books.

Presumably the publisher sees it as another tier they can offer to those fans ("and if you'd like a collectable edition of your favourite book, we happen to have one right here!") rather than an imprint that will have fans collecting every edition they publish - though if they can pick up a few of them along the way, so much the better

>129 Grofield63:

They won't pick me up with only four of eight illustrations in the only edition that I would consider acceptably priced, and only 6 out of eight in the rather expensive numbered edition, even for a book I really like. That feels like a rip-off to me. But you might be right that people less experienced with books might fall for it. I'm not entirely sure, though. Outlander has a very large following, and Suntup had problems selling their (excellent) edition even after the author finally mentioned it on her Twitter / X. My impression was that quite a few people who are used to 'regular' books and their prices were bowled over by the Suntup prices. I'm sure that will be the case with Fabelistik, too.

>129 Grofield63: I think you're right that the only way forward to them is to try and open up a new audience. But I don't see any signs of that thus far - even though they apparently have a member of their team dedicated to 'brand marketing'. All I see so far is a few half-hearted attempts to market to exactly the current small/fine press publishers audience, by unashamedly coping the Suntup model (even down to the monthly release schedule, without first releasing anything or building up a customer base), trying to open up a short-lived 'Fans of' FB page (similar to the pages for Lyra's, Curious King, Suntup, CTP etc but not actually started by fans) and trying to pay one of the most prominent members of those pages to try and win the rest of us over.

I agree with >130 SF-72:: I think there is a huge difference between a having a mega mass market best seller, and finding an audience willing to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a copy of said book. Personally, I think that a 'popular' title should have to prove itself over time before being considered for such treatment (at least a decade old, say).

>131 Levin40: If they are trying to tap into a fan (of the author) audience, it certainly does feel like they've gone about it the wrong way. As >130 SF-72: says, their efforts so far aren't enough to impress those experienced in book collecting, while their prices are too steep for those unfamiliar with the market beyond their local bookstore.

There does seem to possibly be a gap in the market for collectables priced between a regular HC and something like Suntup or Folio's offerings. Whether it's possible to create value for money as far as bindings and paper goes at this mid-point and not simply just offer sprayed edges and double-sided jackets I don't know.

But as Folio seems to have recently discovered they can jack up their prices and still sell out fast, no doubt any major publishers looking at the market are going to assume that's the way to maximise their returns rather than create a new pricing tier that may be more successful as far as sales go but not be as profitable per book sold.

>132 Grofield63: Their market positioning isn't too far off from Curious King, or where Suntup started. They're just also not nearly as impressive so far.

I get the feeling that the individual running the press and whatever Macmillan big wig OK'd this are trying to balance two very different goals.

At the end of the day, the issue is that Fablelistik books are not ensouled. Very much a paint by number approach to design.

I’m following them on Instagram and while I like some of their posts, the whole thing put together just doesn’t seem to mesh well.

>133 NathanOv: I hope you are correct that it's just teething issues and that the driving force behind it will find their way. At the moment it still feels very much like a cash grab, but that can change if people with genuine passion get involved.

This thread feels a bit like an echo chamber - Fabelisk is copying, poorly thought out and executed, etc. It's possible their intended market doesn't sit on LT discussing the finer points of typography and these will do quite well. I certainly don't blame MacMillan for trying.

>136 LBShoreBook: Well, this being the Fine Press Forum, that's the lens they are being evaluated through. Whether they are a commercial success is tangential to the discussion. The same applies to Easton and all the other "fine press adjacent" publishers who crop up on here as well.

At the moment Fablelistik seems to be chasing the market that Easton and Suntup pursue, with some leanings into the signifiers of fine press. It remains to be seen where this going in the long term, particularly as no book has been released in physical form yet. So all that they can be judged on at this point is what they make public.

>137 Shadekeep: You think that Easton and Suntup pursue the same market?

>136 LBShoreBook: It’s not terribly surprising considering how particular and consensus seeking hobby groups can be.

I think it would be fun if they pivoted more to trying to take on Folio Society and then sort of bounced back up to fine press over a couple of years (Although that’s mostly based on self interest). There seems to be more of a market gap in that range than the top end.

If they published something I thought was a must have title, I’m sure I’d find a way to convince myself it’s the peak of printing itself.

>138 ultrarightist: Less so nowadays, but there is overlap on the Venn diagram in the "collectors who want prestigious-looking volumes" market. Though the style of Suntup versus Easton is markedly different most of the time these days. (Certainly their marketing styles are worlds apart.) And I do think someone coming to both presses now wouldn't see much commonality anymore. That being said, I have books from both which happily coexist on my shelves without obvious dissonance.

>139 ensuen: I would definitely welcome an American-Based Folio competitor. Folio was my gateway into the finer press realm and I will always be appreciative of their relatively affordable quality editions. But I would love something similar on this side of the pond (those shipping prices can be nasty unless you're spending like $1,000) - haha.

I think their (Fabelistik) bad behavior / tone deaf entrance into the market has damaged my willingness to trust them for a while. But I hope they can regain the trust of the market and be another solid entrance into the space that raises all boats.

Here's a take away from the latest Curious King newsletter which seems to confirm what some of us have feared:

I think most people know that competition for printers has increased recently, especially with the introduction of a “big 5” backed new entrant with big plans… I’ll just leave that there.

So yes, the monthly release plans of these guys, coupled with their use of some of the same suppliers as several other small presses, means it's very likely that the likes of CK and CTP could face higher prices, longer queues, delays and in the end fewer titles released. I very much hope that if Fabelistik are successful they will eventually open their own in-house printer and binder. If Nomad do a Fabelistik title every month I can't see them having time for much else!

>142 Levin40: On the flip side, what a wonderful development for the printers. For a business that must have razor thin margins, it's great to see the demand to keep them running.

I agree but it seems that at the same time, judging by the comments on this forum, the quality of these printers is in decline, perhaps as a result of pushing out more projects quickly.

>144 edkennedy: Some of that could also be down to the fact that this is job work for those printers, and certain factors may be dictated to them by the client that they themselves wouldn't choose for their own work. Paper selection is an example.

>146 Ragnaroekk:

"It seems like there is more demand for letterpress printed books, than actual printers available."

Which may prompt more printers to enter the letterpress printing business - unmet market demand and all that.

>142 Levin40: I’m struggling to see this as a good thing, and frankly any arguments on how it could be fail to hold up for me.

If Nomad had been co-opted to print toilet paper during the pandemic (I know, absurd example, but just hear it out), halting production on all of their small / private press work, would we be saying “good for them getting the business!” and “don’t worry, new printers will take their place!” ?

The fact of the matter is that an outside entity is tying up resources to produce an almost entirely different sort of product at the expense of true fine publishers.

>149 NathanOv: While I hope that Pat wouldn't have taken the work if he felt it would compromise his workload, I can see how it still might end up being a kind of Faustian bargain. If there are X titles fighting for the limited pool of Y printers, than a group with Big 5 dollars behind them is likely to win. Personally, I hope he is using the job work assignments to train his interns and produce the next generation of printers. And that the publisher eventually invests in their own printshop, increasing job opportunities for folks who want to be printers.

I'm striving to see a rainbow here, but there's a chance it's just astigmatism instead.

>149 NathanOv: If they are successful, maybe they would bring printing in house (something Amaranthine did for example), and therefore the drain on Nomad and Hand & Eye etc. resources would be only temporary. There must be some more unused Heidelbergs just sitting around somewhere.

>143 LBShoreBook: Until, with limited supply, Fablelistik (what a shitty name, I hate typing it) is able to outspend other smaller presses and the printers go with them instead. Leaving the smaller presses with nowhere to go, longer lead times, and pressure on their margins so they go out of business. But hey, at least Macmillan is going to add a bit more to their margin, and add to their one billion dollars in revenue.

>152 What_What: I suppose if you hate capitalism you'd prefer an alternative approach? Maybe a book czar to allocate resources efficiently on behalf of the collective? I suspect the market will be fine - if there is that much demand guess what, supply generally increases with entrants into the market. Crazy but true.

>153 LBShoreBook: I’m sorry, but since when is a billion-dollar bag holder trying to disguise themselves as a new market entrant consistent with any system of capitalism? Supply and demand becomes irrelevant in such a case.

Add in the fact that they hold the sole rights to quite a number of previously available works for small press publication and the free market goes right out the window.

There are more excellent letterpress printers out there than you realize. You just gotta find 'em!

>154 NathanOv: so your solution would be .... ?

>156 LBShoreBook: Does one need to offer a solution in order to state that something seems bad?

>153 LBShoreBook: That’s a pretty vapid comment isn’t it?

The obvious and overarching point I was making is if you’re a fan of small presses, in general, and specifically the ones talked about often here, a billion dollar organization’s success threatens their existence.

And not only that, but they chose to enter the market by pretending to have an organically created fans group, hiring someone to pretend they were actually excited about their stuff.

>158 What_What: >157 NathanOv: I admit to being an econ major who works for large corporation. I believe in markets. The sky is not falling because of a new entrant into the market. And if that entrant needs to "pretend.... to have an organically created fans group" in lieu of an actual fan group, I fail to understand all of the gnashing going on in this thread - if their product sucks with no buyers, the project will fail. That's capitalism, no matter how much some on this thread misunderstand the concept. Anyhoo, I'll move on, it is what it is.

>159 LBShoreBook: I don't really want to get into a capitalism vs any other system argument. It's as pointless as debating religion. People have their fixed opinions and nothing will change that. But what I will say is that one of the things which has always appealed to me so much about this hobby is that the businesses involved represent something of a counterpoint to mass market 21st century capitalism. It's a breath of fresh air. The preorders and long waits (it's ready when it's ready) approach vs instant gratification; the time consuming, hand-crafted production vs the mass automated production outsourced to the lowest cost provider; the direct interaction with the creators, who have, you know, actual individual personalities vs the faceless corporate approach; the presses who are clearly driven by an intrinsic love of the art rather than just profit, profit, profit.

Capitalism has its place in the world of course, and a very central one. But if the things I listed above were to disappear I would sure as hell miss them. And if you don't care about them then why not just stick to mass market productions in the future? It's a little difficult for me to square the circle of someone being in this hobby who has no issue with major corporations - and all that entails - taking over because of, you know, 'the market'. To summarize, the modus operandi of major corporations generally runs directly against what makes small presses so appealing. That's probably why some here are 'gnashing'.

With the way they're going about it, I really hope that they will flat on their face with their latest business model and leave fine editions to genuine fine press publishers.

>160 Levin40: Well said. Believing (largely) in capitalism and being worried about the welfare of small presses are not opposing views. Not even sure what he’s arguing about, especially with the silly response to my earlier comment.

>160 Levin40: Perfectly stated, bravo.

I'm skeptical they have anything close to a sustainable customer base if established players can't shift super popular genre titles at much lower limitations. It took Books Illustrated more than a year to sell all their copies of The Night Circus, and that's a much beloved, in copyright, recent bestseller fantasy book. The same company decided Interview with the Vampire (!), and the next Morgenstern title, couldn't justify a letterpress numbered edition (presumably because of the Night Circus sales performance).

The classic four Ps of marketing (the marketing mix) are: product, promotion, price, and place.

Product: Fabilistik seems rather uninspired so far with the exception of the lettered. To reiterate the point made by many above, who are the 1000 people who are going to spend $300 USD on a rather uninspired offset edition of Sleepy Hollow? The average consumer thinks $100 USD for a book is a huge splurge.

Promotion: so far they've had a whole lot of bad press among aficionados, no sign of actually expanding the market to new customers, and no obvious killer strategy beyond regular deep discounts (assuming their stated limitations are actually printed). Deep discounts will damage brand value long term and probably lose money on a product basis.

Price: lower is not always better from a marketing perspective, but so far they come across as an Instagram drop shipper charging Dom Pérignon rates.

Place: all that said, the power of distribution networks should not be underestimated. It seems like place is the only strength I see as an outsider doing a strength/weakness analysis, apart from advantageous access to some intellectual property. (And then why start with a public domain short story? It makes no sense.)

I think this problem will take care of itself, and quickly too if they really try for producing and shifting this volume of product monthly, unless it's the vanity project of some billionaire who doesn't actually care about maintaining a profitable business unit.

>160 Levin40: Hear, hear!

>164 What_What: You typically make more sense than you do on this thread. I wonder what the small press printers think of another income source - Bradley Hutchinson in Austin, Scott Vile in Maine. Are they annoyed at another potential source of making money on tight margins? Maybe, who knows. This thread is all about how this will impact me, me, me, me. Anyway I'm not changing any minds nor will mine be changed so I really should move on to more interesting topics. (As an aside, I have no intention of buying any books from this venture, I am more bemused by the vitriol for them taking a punt at the business model.)

>169 LT79: It varies. Some fine presses were/are owned by folks with money to spare; others take advantage of grants & crowd-funding. Profit? I can't imagine that any of them are getting rich from their efforts. It is, I should think, rather like owning an antiquarian book store: a pleasant way to pay the rent.

>171 Glacierman: I heard something once that made me laugh:

"The goal of the best artists is to make as much money as the worst dentists."

The Fablistic thing is very interesting.

Ultimately, the thing that seems worrying is not actually Fableistik but the fact that extremely few new Heidelberg printers have opened in the past decade despite a real increase in interest in letterpress books.

>175 grifgon: Enjoy the rest of your eggnog 😊

>176 Dr.Fiddy: Glug, glug, ho ho ho!

>169 LT79: My understanding is no one (other than Paul Suntup) gets rich off publishing these kinds of books. The proprietors of small presses usually lead quite modest lives from what I have seen.

>179 What_What: Thanks. I think?

Wow, the Lettered Edition of The Invisible Life of Addie Larue is gorgeous --
https://fablelistikeditions.com/products/lettered-edition-of-the-invisible-life-...

Far beyond my price range, but if I had the money I would absolutely purchase it. The Numbered is far more affordable, and is on-par with Suntup etc. I haven't read all the back-and-forth comments above, but I personally am glad there's a new letterpress publisher, I think it's a win for bibliophiles :)

Still keeping orders exclusively to US and territories. Very jingoistic, or is it xenophobia?

>181 wcarter: That's unfortunate. Is that for both editions? They may not be able to sell Invisible Life outside the USA for copyright reasons. Sleepy Hollow is in the public domain, so in principle they should be able to ship that anywhere in the world. If not, I imagine the hurdle is likely logistics.

>181 wcarter: Probably a legal thing. FAQ says:

We are planning to open international pre-orders in the beginning of 2025​! While we work to secure rights outside the U.S. whenever possible, we cannot guarantee where all Fablelistik titles will be available for purchase. We will be clear in our announcements and on our product pages regarding each Collection.

https://fablelistikeditions.com/pages/faq

>180 astropi: Yeah the Lettered is a beautiful edition. It kind of remind me of CTP’s Solaris Deluxe edition (minus the crystals obviously).

But one thing I’m not a fan of, are the narrow margins around the text. I prefer bigger margins.

>179 What_What: Yeah, pretty much. And they have to take in commissions and often job work as well to make ends meet. And some have a Significant Other with a real job....

>183 921Jack: Makes sense. I was assuming it's because the books are made in Imperial units and it will take a while to convert them to Metric. Either that or the delay in converting the text from American to English.

>180 astropi:

If the photos are realistic, I would worry about the paper quality. The way the opened page falls in the photo it looks like very thin paper. And that at this price.

>188 SF-72: I had the same thought re the paper. It shouldn't bend like that, and to publish out of focus photos of it doing so seems very amateurish. And as for the binding, as far as I can tell it's just a photo printed onto leather, with no indication of what the leather is. Not particularly impressive given the price.

>189 Levin40: I have no interest in this book and do not have any plans to support the press, but on the details page it says the paper for the lettered edition is “handmade zerkall” which I should think is a high quality paper.

>190 Nightcrawl: Did Zerkall ever make handmade paper? I have never seen that before and I wonder if they are mixing up mouldmade and handmade paper, as often happens with new people.

>189 Levin40: it's very possible that image is a digital mockup.

>188 SF-72: >189 Levin40: Exactly. I noticed that, too. It looks very odd.

>191 edkennedy: Not to my knowledge. You may be correct though. I just assumed that there was some handmade varietal I was not aware of, but they probably mixed up mouldmade and handmade - that would make more sense.

>188 SF-72: >189 Levin40: I will say that I agree the photos should be higher quality. In terms of the paper, hand-made paper is often thick and dipped in water to hydrate, before being pressed down. It usually produces beautiful paper that has a bit of a "waviness" to it, so perhaps that is what you are seeing? At any rate, it looks great to me. Really high-quality presses such as L-D Allen would produce these books from hand-made paper that had the same look.

>195 astropi:

I've never seen mould-made or hand-made paper fall like the paper does in this photo. Paper I have seen fall like this was ultra-thin paper that is unfortunately used by a German publisher for complete works of older authors. So either this is a very poor mock-up or poor paper. If it's Zerkall I would hope for a poor-quality, probably computer-generated mock-up that doesn't represent the actual release at all. But who knows. They certainly should do better when they're trying to sell a book for about 3500$.

Another thing I noticed about this edition: They plan on attaching little crystals to the binding. While this looks quite pretty and is a cute idea with regard to the novel, I do wonder how well those will do if someone actually reads their editions. They'll likely be glued on, and I think that's a recipe for disaster.

>197 SF-72: While I think crystals in book binding is one of the silliest recent trends, at least a half-dozen reputable fine press publishers have put out books with crystals / gemstones incorporated into their lettered editions over the past few years.

I have no clue how well they’ve held up, that’s just one design detail that I wouldn’t attribute to this publisher’s lack of experience with fine press.

>196 SF-72: Definitely, and certainly not in any of the many Allen Press editions that I have.

>198 NathanOv:

I wasn't putting that down to lack of experience, but in the few cases where I saw this kind of thing (sticking minerals or other objects to the cover of a book), I did wonder if those will actually hold up to reading, as opposed to being kept nice and safe on a shelf. Which is never the purpose of a book for me, my main joy comes from reading a beautiful edition, not just looking at it.

>200 SF-72: IMHO, when you start sticking objects to a book cover, you no longer have a book. Rather, you have an art object that looks like a book. The binder Gary Frost was noted for that at one time.

>201 Glacierman:

Exactly.

I'm also not a fan of things stuck on books. That said, adorning books with jewels etc. is nothing new. I found this book online, and supposedly it's from 17th century Armenia --



Too gaudy for my taste, but all that said, again nothing new with blinging covers. However, I suspect older books like that are fastened mechanically while probably crystals etc used today are glued. No doubt at some point the glue will eventually disintegrate. Could be 25 years, or 100 years, but it will.

>203 astropi: Certainly nothing new, but I still maintain that it’s being overdone lately.

Not a design practice that needed to make a resurgence in my opinion.

>201 Glacierman: >203 astropi: Interesting take, but what about veneers? Inlays? Stamped materials? I think it’s perfectly okay to get creative with bindings as long as it suits the purpose of the book.

One of my favorite fine press books has a small medallion embedded in the front board and is still perfectly readable.

>204 NathanOv: Personally, I don't mind if things are embedded within the cover. For me, it really comes down to

1)Is something sticking out?
2)Is is it glued?

If the answer is no to both questions, I probably won't have any problems :)

>204 NathanOv: Well, if it interferes with the ability to put it on the shelf.... Of course, such a ... book ... can be put into a clamshell which would allow shelving.

One of the most egregious of the "art object" style of binding was done in 1974 by Gary Frost. It was exhibited in 1978 by the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art in an exhibition called Hand bookbinding today, an International Art. The book is described as follows:

Moses David. A series of tracts published by the Children of God, London, 1973-74. Bound in one volume. Native-dyed Niger goatskin with tight joint and five raised bands on spine attached to wooden boards. On-lays include styrene capsules set in bitumen containing debris from early books, and miscellaneous found objects. Top edge dyed red. Decorated endpapers

That "miscellaneous found objects" doesn't begin to describe the junk attached to this thing. The photo of it is rather scary. A chain with some sort of metal object attached, a wooden "sculpture" of some sort and god knows what else is attached to this...BLOB (book-like object). Hideous.

On the other hand, the vast majority of bindings exhibited were superb examples of the art and craft of hand bookbinding.

>203 astropi: I would say that your example is really one of the creation of an "icon", in the traditionally ecclesiastic sense of the word. There were specific times and regions where such things were being made and this has many of the earmarks of one. The time and place are also appropriate. It would have existed primarily as a thing to been seen and adored, rather than a book to be used weekly on the holy day. And most of the outer work would have been executed by a goldsmith and jeweler, rather than a bookbinder as such.

>203 astropi: >207 Shadekeep: Bejeweled metal bindings are often found on religious texts. I have seen some very elaborate ones on copies of the Tanakh and the Haggadah as well as books of hours, prayer books, etc. They are often personal items. Some of the Medieval books had metal bosses, often of good size, stuck on the covers. So, sticking things on bindings isn't new, but in today's world, it is a bit muchy.

Sangorski and Sutcliffe bindings in the early 20th century, too:

https://sites.utexas.edu/ransomcentermagazine/2012/12/10/sangorski-and-sutcliffe...

Famous for jeweled bindings, etc. (without becoming BLOBs). Many of these are gorgeous and read visually as strangely restrained despite the intricate details. If prices were different, I would totally be happy adding some of these to my collection, but totally different collecting community and the entry level price for some of the fine S&S jeweled bindings would yield a bumper crop of fine press classics.

I don't think current bookbinders and marketers are really up to the task of doing this kind of binding tastefully, and most of the contemporary examples I have seen (such as the Curious King amathyst) lack taste (in my opinion, obviously).

Have a look at Kate Holland's work - Breakfast at Tiffany's and Siddhartha, in addition to her portfolio.

Here's a beauty:

>206 Glacierman: OT: Different strokes, etc. But I find the Moses David binding completely appropriate for its content and context: a late-1970s examination of the hippy-dippy, quasi-religious movement. It incorporates elements of assemblage that was one of the hallmarks of 1960s West-Coast art (e.g., George Herms) while satirizing the "Family" as a religious group with its hearkening to medieval/late-Ren ornamented, inlaid bindings. Gary Frost is on the Mt. Rushmore of American bookbinders and conservators: there aren't too many American binders in the last 50 years who have done really innovative work who aren't connected to GF (Heidi Kyle might be the big exception).

>213 DenimDan: As you say, different strokes.... And to me, that volume is no longer a book, but an art object in the shape of a book, which description includes the contents. Your interpretation of the binding is interesting, to be sure, but we'll not be agreeing any time soon, I fear!

Curiously, the teaser hints for their upcoming books have disappeared from their home page.

>215 A.Nobody: Hurm, a rethink to their approach underway perhaps?

They announced on Facebook today that their next edition will be Hidden Pictures by Jason Rekulak. Two versions, with preorders starting February 27.

>217 A.Nobody:

Amazon advertises for this one saying: NATIONAL BESTSELLER · OPTIONED FOR NETFLIX BY A PRODUCER OF THE BATMAN
Okay...

>217 A.Nobody: >219 SF-72: Never heard of this title. It seems a very odd choice for a fine press offering.

>220 Levin40: It’s a book tok thriller. For a press that’s spamming me across the internet with claims that they’re “not just making books,” but “making heirlooms,” I can’t imagine anyone wanting an heirloom edition of their favorite 2022 airport kiosk read.

Marketing. it's all about marketing.

>219 SF-72: OPTIONED FOR NETFLIX BY A PRODUCER OF THE BATMAN

That's about an appealing sales pitch to me as getting a book recommendation from someone who gave me the clap.

>223 Shadekeep: 🤣

>223 Shadekeep:

lol

Apart from the content, I just 'love' the capital letters.

Well, this is an effort by Macmillan to milk more money out of their titles. Some genius in marketing came up with the idea. They started with Ichabod Crane because that story is tried-and-true. Now that they've gotten their feet wet and have begun to establish their customer base, they're moving on to their newer titles. It's all about marketing, I tell you.

>226 Glacierman: I don't think there are many booktok lit enjoyers who would lay out hundreds of dollars for fine press editions. For this group, a book upgrade usually means a mass-printed edition with sprayed edges

On the one hand, I feel that Fablelistik is being a bit harshly treated before anyone has seen any of their books. On the other hand, I feel there are also very reasonable complaints, such as picture quality, price-point, etc. Ultimately as I said, I think another fine press in the market is always good for collectors. I think The Legend of Sleepy Hollow is a great first book, but yikes, $895 for the Numbered seems excessive. Also, while the color illustration they show by Gregory Manchess looks great, the B&W sketches which I assume they are including in the book, looks, well like the sketches they are -- namely, they don't look like they were ever intended for publication.

>228 astropi: They're from such a huge company, why are they putting their third book up for order without even delivering the first? Seems odd.

I bought the CE of The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. I honestly think it looks better than the other editions. I don't like anything else they've released, so they'll likely be a one-hit wonder for me.

Hidden Pictures is now open for pre-sale. At least the prices have come way down (along with the production specs). $85 for a Standard and $145 for the Collector's Edition (limitation of 1,500). Both are signed by the author and feature a whopping 52 illustrations, making them compare favorably with a Folio Society SE or Suntup AE (though the Standard lacks a slipcase). While I have zero interest in the title, if I did, this seems like a reasonable offer.

>231 A.Nobody: Finally a more appropriate approach – a FS competitor, not a fine press attempt. The standard edition doesn’t have a listen print run, only the first printing will have the author’s signature.

I am not interested in this title, though. Will keep tabs on future announcements.

>231 A.Nobody: Yes, the price does seem fairly decent for what you get. Though like you I have no interest in the book (sounds like an inferior version of Uketsu's brilliant Strange Pictures).

This is exactly what they should have done from the beginning: compete with the likes of the Folio Society and not with Suntup, Curious King, CTP etc. Although I've never heard of this book, at first glance it seems like a decent effort and I wish them all the best with it.

>231 A.Nobody: Thanks for the heads-up! I agree that this is a good price and seems like an excellent alternative to the FS, whose "signed" editions included a 5-cent slapped on sticker with a ridiculous surcharge, but that's a different conversation :)

I have also not heard of the book, but it has an excellent score on goodreads with over 430,000 ratings!
https://fablelistikeditions.com/collections/hidden-pictures/products/collectors-...

I'm going to give this a go, and here is more info on the author and book --
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QW3_KTapFk4

Still will not allow orders outside North America.

>237 wcarter: Still will not allow orders outside North America.

Interestingly there is now a message at the top of their website that states "Free shipping to Hong Kong on all orders above HK$3,400.00" So they seem to be shipping to some international locations. Not that I have tested this out.

>237 wcarter: For what it's worth, their FAQ says: "Launching Soon: International Pre-Orders and Shipping: We are planning to open international pre-orders in the beginning of 2025​! While we work to secure rights outside the US whenever possible, we cannot guarantee where all Fablelistik titles will be available for purchase. We will be clear in our announcements and on our product pages regarding each Collection."

The Legend of Sleepy Hollow apparently is available worldwide; the other two are excluded from the UK and British Commonwealth.

Next title will be Ariadne by Jennifer Saint. Pre-orders on 3/27.
Never heard of it before.

>240 David_Mauduit: I hadn't either, but here's a quick peek at it:

Ariadne

Published 2023 under Macmillan's Flatiron Books imprint.

>241 Glacierman: It sounds interesting, part of a wave of books of this kind retelling Greek myths lately. Don't know that I'll need it in a fancy edition, probably will read the ebook version first and then see what the press comes up with.

>240 David_Mauduit: A title completely new to me, but after seeing the ratings on GR from friends whose opinions I trust, I don't plan to check it out myself.

>240 David_Mauduit: Just one standard edition for their newest title, Ariadne, as a trend might be emerging. I wonder if they are giving up on their fine press-like ambitions.

>244 A.Nobody: The incredible shrinking product line. I wonder what those folks with "Matching Purchase Rights" from Sleepy Hollow are doing?

>244 A.Nobody: from my perspective, this might be a positive development, though it's not clear whether the specs advertised are competitive with mid level Folio Society quality, which seems approximately the price point they are going for.

And the marketing specs are relatively light on details. Here's what I see for the most recent offering (source):

Housed in a midnight blue rigid die cut slipcase, this Standard edition has a soft touch matte lamination

Features 6 illustrations, customized chapter and part openers and 2-color spot art by Alexis Lampley throughout

Includes exclusively designed endpapers, a red ribbon marker and red silk head and tail bands.

(I read this to mean bound in printed paper, and there is no info about paper at all, or whether the binding is sewn.)

I definitely like this better than overly expensive levels with the others containing only a very small number of the existing illustrations. With this, I might actually get behind buying a book I'm interested in. However, the least I would expect would be some pictures of the illustrations on their website, so far it's only the 2-color spot art mentioned above.

>245 Shadekeep: At this rate they won't exist in a month or so. Seriously though, the interesting thing at this point will be whether Sleepy Hollow will actually be produced in 'Spring 2025'. To me it's a little nuts for a new publisher to put four titles up for pre-order without actually producing anything. I can't think of any precedent for it and it seems somewhat arrogant. Suntup/CTP/Curious King get away with multiple titles on pre-order these days, but only after establishing a name for themselves with their first titles.

This is one of the big publishers. Having several titles going at once would be completely normal to them.

>249 SF-72: Not sure I agree with that. Big publishers don't generally do pre-orders at all (I can't think of an example anyway). Even medium sized publishers, such as the Folio Society, don't do them: when an LE is up for sale it's ready to go out. The whole point of pre-orders is to allow small publishers to generate cashflow to produce the books, which they otherwise wouldn't have. Why do Fableistik need to do pre-orders for all their editions, even the non fine press ones? (imagine if the Folio Society did pre-orders for SEs). They're a big publisher pretending to be a little one, which is odd.

>249 SF-72: That they’re a big publisher is precisely why they can afford not to accept money for four books without shipping a single one. It’s like they mindlessly copied everything these smaller presses do.

>250 Levin40:

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same thing. The way I understand this, this is a new sub-publishing 'house' that actually belongs to one of the big ones. They do pre-orders all the time, every new regular paperback or hardcover can be pre-ordered and is then delivered around publication day. As a matter of fact, most books published by those only count as a success if there are a lot of pre-orders. Authors sometimes urgently ask their fans to please pre-order due to that.

>251 What_What:

They certainly could, but why should they? As you say, they are trying to copy a concept small publishers have been using (more or less) successfully.
I don't get the impression that it's going as well as they hoped, but based on our discussions here that's not surprising considering what they offer for what they charge, and the poor marketing, too.

>252 SF-72: Yes, lots of poor execution. It's too bad. Or, good, depending on your feeling about the whole thing.

>252 SF-72: Yes, you're right of course, big publishers do do pre-orders in the sense that they set a precise release date and one can order the book before then. But I think there's a big difference between that - when the production is basically complete and funded - and the small publisher's pre-orders - which generally happen at a much earlier stage in the production and in which the cashflow from the pre-order is used to fund the production. From what I can see from their photos, Fablelistik are following the latter course. I suppose it may not always be obvious to tell the difference, but one rule of thumb could whether there is a fixed release date, down to the day, from a big publisher, vs the vague date (Q2, Q3 etc) from small publishers which is more often than not delayed. That's why I'm interested if the Sleepy Hollow 'Spring 2025' release will take place. They still haven't updated the site with any completed art, for example.

>254 Levin40:

Yes, there is definitely a big difference in the reasons for this, and with a lot of pre-orders from the big publishers you also don't pay in advance but when the book becomes available. This is dependant on which store you're pre-ordering from, of course. I expect that in this case, it's not about needing the money in advance, as smaller, private presses do, but just copying their concept and running with it. Not very well, though, at least so far. It looks like it's slowly improving.

>246 abysswalker: FYI, I asked and got more info on the latest:

The book is smyth sewn, paper over board with a soft touch matte lamination finish. The box is a rigid slipcase that is wrapped in cloth, and foil stamped with a die cut on the front.

There's a fascination with the Fableistik train wreck.

When it comes to the Fine Press Forum, I will hazard a guess that Fableistik Editions are the clear leader in the following metric: The number of posts written about a given press / The number of that press's books purchased by Fine Press Forum members.

If the saying "all publicity is good publicity" is true maybe it's only a question of time before their sales kick off.

>257 Pendrainllwyn: I rather think that No Reply Press is the leader in those stats (951 posts) and a lot of books purchased.

>258 Glacierman: Yes, indeed. My metric wasn't perhaps clear. It wasn't a metric you wanted to be leader of!

Fableistik. 258 posts / let's guess 2 books purchased = 129 posts per book

No Reply. 951 posts / let's guess 300 books purchased = 3.17 posts per book

>259 Pendrainllwyn: Yet there is a qualitative difference between the reception of the two presses. No Reply is love to love. Fableistik is love to hate.

Has Fablelistik sent any updates on their announcements for 2025? It seems like they nixed releasing a title per month.

>261 NotSoSlimShady: Haven't heard anything further from them since Ariadne. Maybe a good idea for them to get one book out the door before stacking on more titles, especially as their plans seem to fluctuate from one to the next.

Fablelistik will next be taking on "romantasy" with Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros to kick off the Empyrean series, with matching rights for future series titles. A total of 10,000 Collector's editions between two options, plus 500 Numbered and, of course, 26 Lettered.

>263 A.Nobody: 10,000?!

>264 CJR93: That's a lot of books :)
Might sell well, and of course that will depend on the price and publicity. But yeah, 10,000 seems... ambitious.

>265 astropi: It does. Still, the title’s huge…I don’t know. It’ll be interesting to see how it does.

Anyone actually read books in this "romantasy" genre and have a recommendation? I'd like to give one a shot before writing an entire genre off.

>267 howtoeatrat: I think that’s wise. They’re clearly offering something of value to many people. For what it’s worth, my wife loves Sarah Maas’s ACOTAR books.

>263 A.Nobody: OMG I literally called this last December lol. >127 921Jack:

>269 921Jack: Could there be a Fablelistik mole? lol

Their idea of series rights is rather interesting:

If you purchase a Lettered Edition or a Numbered Edition (1-150 only) of Fourth Wing, you will receive an Empyrean Series Matching Right

In other words, 350 of the 500 numbered copies will not carry series rights; so who would want buy those copies...? 🤷

>267 howtoeatrat: I read some (not a ton) and frankly I'd avoid anything in the first page of books on the tag page. Since you don't have any books in your catalog I don't really have anything to suggest--the thing about recommending in a genre mash-up is that you have to like what's going on with both elements, and then there's how you want the genres balanced.

My favorites are probably T. Kingfisher and Alexandra Rowland but I can think of things about every single book I've read in the genre that someone might hate.

>267 howtoeatrat: Yes. Not Yarros, honestly, but.
Emily Wilde's Encyclopedia of faeries by Heather Fawcett

The Jasad Heir by Sara Hashem

The Raven Scholar by Antonia Hodgson

Summers at Castle Auburn by Sharon Shinn

>271 Dr.Fiddy: It could be that as part of their masquerade as a small press, they are mindlessly copying what other small presses are doing, without actually understanding why it’s being done.

Because you’re right - who would want the first part of a five book series without also wanting the assurance of completing the set.

Let me be clear, this outfit is a specialty press, not a fine press.

This release begs the question of at what point a publisher should stop selling a tltle as being 'limited'. 10,000 copies is likely far more than most Folio Society standard editions and not far off many mass market hardcover first editions.

>276 Levin40: It's the publisher's call IMO. 20,000 edition that will never be printed again is technically limited. As long as they are transparent on limit and pricing, the market will signal if the publisher's model works.

>277 LBShoreBook: Well, heck. A 1.5 million copy printing is technically limited....

>278 Glacierman: If there won't be a second run, yes. Publisher's call on how to pitch it to the market.

>279 LBShoreBook: That is indeed the publisher's prerogative, just as it is the public's to point out that Macmillan's uninspired foray into speciality press-printing reeks.

“Limited” in the sense used here has always been of, well, limited use. Generally, I think, it implies a certain deliberate scarcity; sometimes (not always) it means a publisher won’t print more than X copies.

It also doesn’t matter much to me, although I understand economies of cost, etc., play into pricing. Take two examples:

* Spooky Pumpkin Press publishes 200 copies of a book. Retail: $200.

* Spooky Pumpkin Press publishes 600 copies of its next book. Retail: $200.

Do I mind that scarcity went down while cost stayed flat? I don’t, because scarcity doesn’t factor into what I perceive to be a book’s value.

This press confounds me to no end. They make a post on Facebook stating that they will deliver a 'Fableistik Friday' update post weekly about things going on at the press and then promptly forget about that by the next week. Who is the inbound marketing team? lol

The amount of inventory they continue to add with each new title has to tell someone this isn't working, right?

>282 NotSoSlimShady: Well, it's a major trade publisher, so large amounts of stock in the warehouse is nothing new.....

>283 Glacierman:

The way I understand it, they keep adding titles, but none have actually been produced / shipped so far. That is unusual and a bit worrying. As is the lack of information, with the latest no insight at all into the illustrations, for example, just some vague pictures that are probably the covers. It all comes across as quite unprofessional and a bad imitation of some private presses.

>284 SF-72: Not unexpected. A trade publisher tries to jump on the fine press bandwagon without fully understanding what they are attempting to emulate. Applying a corporate mentality to the fine press model today is bound to be problematical.

They still can't be bothered to show the artwork for their Fourth Wing, or give a number of illustrations. The sale starts in three days.

>286 SF-72: Strange choice. Why not build anticipation by showing at least a little of it?

>287 Shotcaller:

Exactly. I really think they don't know what they're doing at all.

Pre-order page is up and as usual it looks ridiculous. Base edition is paper bound, numbered edition at almost 800€ is only cloth bound. The Lettered could have looked nice if it had not this rainbow effect.
https://fablelistikeditions.com/collections/fourth-wing

Edit: oh and of course all editions are printed offset even the one at 4000€...

I personally think the Lettered Edition cover is quite stunning. Not $3600 stunning, but very well done. Honestly, all the covers are quite well done in my opinion. That said, like others, I'm waiting for them to actually complete a book or two...

The scale effect seems interesting, though I think one would have to have it in hand to see if it's a success.

Agreed on the lettered. It does look fantastic. I was honestly considering a numbered once I had the opportunity to see it. However, once I saw the specs (just cloth and no letterpress), I could not justify the price to value.

I like the look of the numbered, but in this price range I really won't buy blind. They show exactly one illustration currently, which is a joke.

Apart from the title choices, I just don’t see the value. If anything, with the large runs and the power of Macmilllan behind them, I’d have thought they’d have priced low.

Maybe they’re pricing in a fair amount of risk. Or maybe their administrative costs are too high. Or they’re greedy. Regardless, I can’t see buying from them. Not as it stands now.

Have Fabelistik actually released a book yet?
If so, do any of you own a copy, and what do you think of it?

They haven't shipped anything yet, but at least they have a tracker now:
https://fablelistikeditions.com/pages/publishing-updates

>297 nethergoat: So two titles estimated for Summer 2025, with the Autumnal Equinox about 10 days away...

With Fourth Wing, which they keep sending me emails for, they don't even bother to show the illustrations beyond a tiny one. I don't know what makes them expect that they can sell books at these prices without showing what you get.

This press is like an idea a bunch of drunk people had at a party one night, reluctantly decided to go ahead with it over the next few weeks just because, and then everybody got bored and are just halfassing it.

>300 What_What:

lol, but true enough. I would add greed: 'It worked for some private presses that invested a lot of work and creativity - let's try it with a lot less of that! What could go wrong?'

https://fablelistikeditions.com/pages/publishing-updates

"Last modified: August 22, 2025"

Meanwhile, dinner is being served aboard the Mary Celeste...

>302 Shadekeep: A year after pre-orders opened they are only at the offset printing step for the collector and still in preproduction for numbered and lettered editions...

I love how the title for this thread is “Possible New Fine Press;” I think the jury is still indeed out on this one lol. A year on and we’re still not too sure.

Fabelistik are promising to release two titles in December and are offering 10% discount (15% if two books ordered) and free shipping, even to Australia!
Out of curiosity I have decided to try one edition, Fourth Wing. in their basic collector's format (a mere 5000 copies!) just to see what their quality is like.

Have they delivered any of these yet?

>305 wcarter: a lot of their early backers were upset over this because they paid the full price. I think they're now asking for a price match

>305 wcarter: I find the illustrations terrible. It looks like cheap fan arts.

>308 David_Mauduit:
Just curious, so buying one and with the discounts not too expensive. May be the only one I buy.
>307 filox:
Yes, it is always very annoying when this happens. I can understand their anger.

>307 filox: They are price matching anyone who emailed them, they take a while to respond. I don't think their team has a dedicated customer service representative. Macmillan seems to keep their team small and does not want to dedicate a lot manpower to the press. I ended up buying the Collector's Edition of Sleepy Hollow, the discount along with Manchess' art was too hard to pass up.

>305 wcarter: I received Fourth Wing from Fablelistik today.

My impressions:

The good:
1. Excellent typography - Typeface, layout area and margins are impressive. Gorgeous drop caps opening each chapter. Typography is at the standard of a Suntup for reference. I honestly wasn't expecting it to be this good, so it's a very welcome surprise.
2. Paper and printing - Thick, heavy, opaque paper stock. They didn't cheap-out on this at all. The book is notably dense is how I'd describe it. Very sharp, consistent offset printing which I personally prefer.
3. Sturdy slipcase - Still only cardboard and paper covered, but significantly thicker than the average Folio SE slipcase.
4. Bound-in colorful signature page at the back. Not sure all the signatures are actually hand-signed, but that of the author appears so to my eyes - I may be wrong.

The meh:
1. Binding boards - This is the weakest part of the physical production to me. Paper covered boards that feel rather flimsy especially in comparison to the actual paper stock of the book. Could have been much better - take a tip from Centipede Press on how to choose good binding materials.
2. Paper tone - This is subjective, but it's more on the bright white part of the spectrum which is not my preferred paper color. I often favor cream paper color for fiction in general. Not a massive deal breaker though - I think it still works well for the content.
3. Front end-paper art - Not my style at all. Too generic and feels decidedly 'YA-ish'. I'd rather it wasn't included at all.

Undecided:
1. Price - At the holiday special offer price (15% off with free shipping), it's a very good deal. Certainly not the worst in the small press world. At 'full' price with shipping included, it still works if it's a title or author you already enjoy, not an 'experiment' to check the quality.

Overall, I'm not disappointed. It probably helps that my expectations were very modest to begin with, so the actual item was a pleasant surprise. They do need to improve the binding board materials though. Now thinking of getting more titles...

>311 Ibkay:
Thanks. I'll look forward to receiving my copy.

>311 Ibkay: Thanks for the summary, sounds a bit better than expected in general. Good that they are finally shipping something as well. It appears from their website that the Collector's Edition of The Invisible Life of Addie Larue is also in stock, so presumably that's the other promised release this month.

EDIT: Also, there seem to be discount codes in effect for pretty much any title at the moment.

Are we calling this a fine press or more quality press like Folio, Easton, etc? Or do we wait for a second product to make that determination?

>314 AstulTheShepherd: Unless things change from what they have been posting, I'm expecting them to land in the "quality press" bucket.

>315 Shadekeep: It seems that way to me too. Their prices just seem to place them as fine press.

After reflecting on the Collector's Edition of Sleepy Hollow more, I have to say I love the art and the afterword. Very well researched and I loved the respect for Irving. My biggest gripes are the fact that the cover image has the book title on the image, I didn't see any reason to obscure Machess' art. My other gripe is the slipcase, super sturdy and well made, but just doesn't come together as a well thought out design. I wish the numbered and lettered editions weren't oversized, otherwise I would have gone for those instead. My biggest fear is that the Suntup Edition will also be oversized.

Has there been any word on the numbered editions of Sleepy Hollow with respect to production status? I've signed up for their email updates multiple times but never seem to get any.

>318 mholt: They have been prototyping the final cover design for the numbered and have been doing final tweaks to type setting for the numbered edition to begin printing. Zero progress on the lettered though.

>319 HaroldScarecrow: Thank you

>319 HaroldScarecrow: the book was announced in October 2024 and they are still not done with the type setting...

>321 David_Mauduit: Yup, the whole thing has been a mess. Still glad I got the Collector's Edition, the afterword and introduction are very insightful when it comes to their knowledge on Irving. However it's clear that they bit off WAY more than they can chew.

I am really tempted by the numbered edition of Addie Larue, but I'm dubious about this outfit, as it still says "shipping Spring 2026", which ends in about 2 weeks. So I sent emails to both their info and support addresses to inquire about the shipping date, and I have heard back from neither. So I'm a little reluctant to spring for 725 bucks from some outfit that doesn't even respond to emails. Has anyone else here ordered a copy? Is there any reason I should hold up?

>323 chopinblues: Can't speak to the numbered, but I ordered the collector's edition last weekend with their 15% off sale and it shipped on the 29th.