1timspalding
UPDATE: I've written a blog post about this, with some updated information and more information:
See https://blog.librarything.com/2024/10/librarything-in-your-language-2/
I've pushed a number of big language changes. I'll summarize them here, explain why we did them, and then get into some of the weeds.
1. The top right of the page now has a language switcher. So you can change the language of LibraryThing at any time.
2. The languages include BRITISH ENGLISH. British English is obviously 99% the same as US English, but uses catalogue, organise, etc. Go to the language-switcher to change to "English (UK)."
3. We are phasing out all the non-English LibraryThing domains, like www.LibraryThing.de, https://www.LibraryThing.es, https://no.LibraryThing.com, https://tr.LibraryThing.com, etc. in favor of using LibraryThing.com. If you go to one of those domains, you will be sent to LibraryThing.com and asked if you want THAT language, or English. (See below for why we are doing this.)
4. You can change languages at any time, but each language also has its own home page—https://www.librarything.com/t/fr, https://www.librarything.com/t/de, etc. You'll see it if you switch languages on the sign-in page, or if you change languages and then leave the site. If you never want to be asked what language you want, bookmark that.
5. I have machine-translated many of the untranslated phrases in many languages, using the member LTAutoTranslations. These are not intended to be final—we know there are problems. But there were languages with WAY too much untranslated. Worse, at lot of the home pages were not translated, which was a big turn-off for members arriving at the site for the first time. The Translate pages (available under the Language Switcher when you are not in English) distinguishes between Translated, Untranslated and Machine Translated, so you can go ahead and tell the robot everything wrong with it!(1)
Why are we doing this?
This is all about self-preservation. LibraryThing's non-English domains were effectively "full sites" to Google and other search Engines. This was good in some ways, and bad in others, but it wasn't a huge problem. Google understood they were language versions, mostly, and crawled only what was needed. Also, whatever they crawled appeared in their index, so it brought us new customers!
For the last two years, however, LibraryThing has seen constantly escalating bot traffic. Nearly all of this is from AI companies trying to crawl every page on the internet. It's bad enough having them crawl the tens of millions of pages on LibraryThing.com, but they were finding our non-English sites and crawling them too. Take 20 million pages and now times it by 50 language sites—that's a billion pages. Now times that by five legit AI companies and 20 illegitimate ones and, well, you can see the problem. We HAVE to pull back and keep LibraryThing to a single site. There is simply no other way to make the site work.
Side-Effect
I've reversed on this. Expect changes in the future, when our UI designed comes back from a vacation.
Adding the language switcher reduced the space up there, so to make room, I have eliminated the name/profile link. Members who've been around a while may remember I've tried to do this before, and backtracked when members became upset. I hope you understand why this needs to happen. It remains easy to get to your profile, which hasn't been your "home page" for years and years now.
There's a thread about this change here: https://www.librarything.com/topic/364725
Questions? Comments? Concerns?
1. I've already pulled back the language translation on one site—Swedish—where a member promised he'd stay on top of it himself and didn't like the bad help. That's fine. See https://www.librarything.com/topic/364718 .
See https://blog.librarything.com/2024/10/librarything-in-your-language-2/
I've pushed a number of big language changes. I'll summarize them here, explain why we did them, and then get into some of the weeds.
1. The top right of the page now has a language switcher. So you can change the language of LibraryThing at any time.
2. The languages include BRITISH ENGLISH. British English is obviously 99% the same as US English, but uses catalogue, organise, etc. Go to the language-switcher to change to "English (UK)."
3. We are phasing out all the non-English LibraryThing domains, like www.LibraryThing.de, https://www.LibraryThing.es, https://no.LibraryThing.com, https://tr.LibraryThing.com, etc. in favor of using LibraryThing.com. If you go to one of those domains, you will be sent to LibraryThing.com and asked if you want THAT language, or English. (See below for why we are doing this.)
4. You can change languages at any time, but each language also has its own home page—https://www.librarything.com/t/fr, https://www.librarything.com/t/de, etc. You'll see it if you switch languages on the sign-in page, or if you change languages and then leave the site. If you never want to be asked what language you want, bookmark that.
5. I have machine-translated many of the untranslated phrases in many languages, using the member LTAutoTranslations. These are not intended to be final—we know there are problems. But there were languages with WAY too much untranslated. Worse, at lot of the home pages were not translated, which was a big turn-off for members arriving at the site for the first time. The Translate pages (available under the Language Switcher when you are not in English) distinguishes between Translated, Untranslated and Machine Translated, so you can go ahead and tell the robot everything wrong with it!(1)
Why are we doing this?
This is all about self-preservation. LibraryThing's non-English domains were effectively "full sites" to Google and other search Engines. This was good in some ways, and bad in others, but it wasn't a huge problem. Google understood they were language versions, mostly, and crawled only what was needed. Also, whatever they crawled appeared in their index, so it brought us new customers!
For the last two years, however, LibraryThing has seen constantly escalating bot traffic. Nearly all of this is from AI companies trying to crawl every page on the internet. It's bad enough having them crawl the tens of millions of pages on LibraryThing.com, but they were finding our non-English sites and crawling them too. Take 20 million pages and now times it by 50 language sites—that's a billion pages. Now times that by five legit AI companies and 20 illegitimate ones and, well, you can see the problem. We HAVE to pull back and keep LibraryThing to a single site. There is simply no other way to make the site work.
Side-Effect
I've reversed on this. Expect changes in the future, when our UI designed comes back from a vacation.
There's a thread about this change here: https://www.librarything.com/topic/364725
Questions? Comments? Concerns?
1. I've already pulled back the language translation on one site—Swedish—where a member promised he'd stay on top of it himself and didn't like the bad help. That's fine. See https://www.librarything.com/topic/364718 .
3timspalding
>2 gilroy:
Good questions. When you choose French the site is in every way like you were using LibraryThing.fr. So the book titles will be in French, when possible, and CK will prefer to show you the French CK. In every way, it is as if you were on LibraryThing.fr.
Good questions. When you choose French the site is in every way like you were using LibraryThing.fr. So the book titles will be in French, when possible, and CK will prefer to show you the French CK. In every way, it is as if you were on LibraryThing.fr.
4Moloch
I helped with Librarything.it a long time ago but I've always used the English site 99,999999% of the time. So I'm happy that now, whenever I'll feel like browsing through the LibraryThing pages in my mother tongue for whatever reason, I won't have to switch to a different site.
5Cynfelyn
>3 timspalding:
Tim, but how do I now move between my two accounts? Until now I've been able to do this by being logged into each of my accounts in seperate languages, and then swapping between accounts by swapping language.
But now both languages are coming up with Cynfelyn's account. I can bring up my other account, but don't seem to be able to edit it.
Tim, but how do I now move between my two accounts? Until now I've been able to do this by being logged into each of my accounts in seperate languages, and then swapping between accounts by swapping language.
But now both languages are coming up with Cynfelyn's account. I can bring up my other account, but don't seem to be able to edit it.
6PawsforThought
>3 timspalding: Will we ever be able to have titles shown in different languages depending on the author/original language of the book/etc.? I’ve asked this before and will keep dreaming of it until the end of days. I have books in multiple languages (because I speak multiple languages) and would prefer to have the titles of books originally written in Swedish in Swedish on LT. And French books in French on LT, etc. I’m acquainted with certain book titles in their native language titles so find it confusing when a title I don’t recognise show up because it’s the most used one on LT. (This happens quite a lot with Swedish books showing up either with English or German titles.)
7timspalding
>5 Cynfelyn:
Two browsers, or signing in and out. But I think it's time for LibraryThing to do what other such sites do, and have a picker for the accounts you're logged into.
Thanks for making me think of that. For now, sorry, you're going to have to sign in and out or use two browsers (or one browser with two windows, one of which is private/incognito).
Two browsers, or signing in and out. But I think it's time for LibraryThing to do what other such sites do, and have a picker for the accounts you're logged into.
Thanks for making me think of that. For now, sorry, you're going to have to sign in and out or use two browsers (or one browser with two windows, one of which is private/incognito).
8lorax
Weird bug:
I switched to Spanish to try it out, and when switching back there was an odd "Inglés Francés Catalán" entry in the menu:
I clicked on it out of curiosity, and it brought me to the page in Arabic.
I switched to Spanish to try it out, and when switching back there was an odd "Inglés Francés Catalán" entry in the menu:
I clicked on it out of curiosity, and it brought me to the page in Arabic.
9GraceCollection
>5 Cynfelyn: A suggestion, if you don't know about it already: many browsers have multiple versions of their browser available, (ie Firefox has Firefox Nightly, Opera has Opera GX, etc) so you can use the browser you like best for both accounts.
On mobile, some Android phones (I'm unsure if all Androids have this feature, and last I checked Apple didn't have it but they've been copying useful Android features lately so they may have it now) allow such a thing as a 'secure folder' or 'private folder,' which essentially creates a separate partition on your phone to double install apps; however, be aware that the separate partition means there's a separate photo album, contacts, etc and that apps in that partition can't access your 'main' contacts/photos/etc.
In both cases, you will need to download any add-ons you want again on the new version of the browser, but with cookies enabled etc you should be able to save your login on each individual browser.
On mobile, some Android phones (I'm unsure if all Androids have this feature, and last I checked Apple didn't have it but they've been copying useful Android features lately so they may have it now) allow such a thing as a 'secure folder' or 'private folder,' which essentially creates a separate partition on your phone to double install apps; however, be aware that the separate partition means there's a separate photo album, contacts, etc and that apps in that partition can't access your 'main' contacts/photos/etc.
In both cases, you will need to download any add-ons you want again on the new version of the browser, but with cookies enabled etc you should be able to save your login on each individual browser.
10timspalding
>8 lorax: Actually, some member did that. I think they were unclear on the concept. It's Persian/Farsi.
11GraceCollection
Also, not to be a pedant, but why is US English just 'English' whereas UK English is 'English (UK)'? I think it's only fair that they either both show up as 'English,' or they both have the little parenthetical.
(Although, if I were trying to be pedantic... In most places where English is spoken, like AUS/NZ, Canada, Singapore, Nigeria, etc, spelling favours towards what you call 'English (UK),' which perhaps makes it the one that should, if any, be called just 'English'? But, in that vein, English from these regions still isn't the same as Standard UK English. Some words common in Australia and New Zealand, like arvo, mozzie, or... other words... are not really used (or not used in polite/casual company) in other places. In Singapore, there are common grammar usages that would be considered improper English elsewhere. And so on. But they are still all more similar to UK English than they are to US English.)
(Although, if I were trying to be pedantic... In most places where English is spoken, like AUS/NZ, Canada, Singapore, Nigeria, etc, spelling favours towards what you call 'English (UK),' which perhaps makes it the one that should, if any, be called just 'English'? But, in that vein, English from these regions still isn't the same as Standard UK English. Some words common in Australia and New Zealand, like arvo, mozzie, or... other words... are not really used (or not used in polite/casual company) in other places. In Singapore, there are common grammar usages that would be considered improper English elsewhere. And so on. But they are still all more similar to UK English than they are to US English.)
12timspalding
>11 GraceCollection:
Where? I think you'll notice that when they are presented together, they are given as English (US) and English (UK). It's true that, when you choose a language, English (US) appears as English at the top of the page. I'm okay with that. When you get down to it, we are an American site who added UK English.
Where? I think you'll notice that when they are presented together, they are given as English (US) and English (UK). It's true that, when you choose a language, English (US) appears as English at the top of the page. I'm okay with that. When you get down to it, we are an American site who added UK English.
13SandraArdnas
>1 timspalding: How can we translate the interface now? I never bothered with the Croatian site while we needed to log into the other site, but I can help improve auto-translations now, just not sure where
>6 PawsforThought: If you've catalogued the book, it shows the title you entered, so if you enter the original language one, that is what it will show. Or are you suggesting the default title should be in the original language? If so, I suspect you might be the only one desiring this.
>6 PawsforThought: If you've catalogued the book, it shows the title you entered, so if you enter the original language one, that is what it will show. Or are you suggesting the default title should be in the original language? If so, I suspect you might be the only one desiring this.
15timspalding
>13 SandraArdnas:
Just change your language to Croatian. Once you do that, the link for Croatian at the top (Hrvatska?) will have a translate link at the bottom of the lightbox.
Just change your language to Croatian. Once you do that, the link for Croatian at the top (Hrvatska?) will have a translate link at the bottom of the lightbox.
16GraceCollection
>12 timspalding: Yes, at the top of the page. 'English (US)' changes to 'English' at the top of the page, whereas 'English (UK)' does not, at the top of the page, show 'English,' but instead 'English (UK).'
17GraceCollection
>14 MrAndrew: 'English' and 'American!' Give it its own name!
19HsuBattery
A suggestion: each language in the list could appear as translated text / English text.
Users who get lost on a site in an unfamiliar language (e.g. Korean) may have difficulty directly returning to the language site they are using.
Edit: I think the suggestion in #21 is better than mine.
Users who get lost on a site in an unfamiliar language (e.g. Korean) may have difficulty directly returning to the language site they are using.
Edit: I think the suggestion in #21 is better than mine.
20timspalding
>19 HsuBattery:
No, I see your suggestion. The issue is why, when you're in another language, the first section title is like: "LibraryThing en anglais / LibraryThing in English"
And the button is also bilingual, like:
"Toutes les langues de LibraryThing"
I think that's enough and your solution would be a bit much, but I'm not sure. Thoughts?
No, I see your suggestion. The issue is why, when you're in another language, the first section title is like: "LibraryThing en anglais / LibraryThing in English"
And the button is also bilingual, like:
"Toutes les langues de LibraryThing"
I think that's enough and your solution would be a bit much, but I'm not sure. Thoughts?
21GraceCollection
>20 timspalding: Personally, I think it would be best if each option was bilingual, like translated name of language/name in that language.
Like on the German site, it would say:
Französisch/Français
Georgisch/ქართული ენა
Griechisch/Ελληνικά
(etc)
Whereas the English site would say:
French/Français
Georgian/ქართული ენა
German/Deutsch
(etc)
Barring that, I think it would be better for each option to be presented only in its native language, ie English is always labelled 'English,' German is always labeled 'Deutsch,' Georgian is always labeled 'ქართული ენა,' regardless of which language you are currently set to.
If I don't know any English, the menu as it is won't help me find my language. I doubt most speakers of any individual language could accurately identify which language is theirs in alphabetical lists of every possible LT translation they could land on, ie if I speak only Korean, and land on the German site, an English translation button, or the German and English names for the Korean language, won't either one help me find what I'm looking for.
Like on the German site, it would say:
Französisch/Français
Georgisch/ქართული ენა
Griechisch/Ελληνικά
(etc)
Whereas the English site would say:
French/Français
Georgian/ქართული ენა
German/Deutsch
(etc)
Barring that, I think it would be better for each option to be presented only in its native language, ie English is always labelled 'English,' German is always labeled 'Deutsch,' Georgian is always labeled 'ქართული ენა,' regardless of which language you are currently set to.
If I don't know any English, the menu as it is won't help me find my language. I doubt most speakers of any individual language could accurately identify which language is theirs in alphabetical lists of every possible LT translation they could land on, ie if I speak only Korean, and land on the German site, an English translation button, or the German and English names for the Korean language, won't either one help me find what I'm looking for.
22PawsforThought
>13 SandraArdnas: I’m well aware that the titles of works I have catalogued show up as I have chosen. I am talking about titles (and series) that are uncatalogued. And I’m not saying they should always be in the original language, I’m saying I’d like to be able to choose. Like on an author page - “display titles in choose language”.
23ocrhdlg
>1 timspalding: I changed my language to English (UK). All fine. But when I logged out I was taken to a completely blank page at https://www.librarything.com/t/gb. Firefox on Windows 11
24anglemark
Tha translation page doesn't load for me, just a blank page. I'll try again later.
ETA: Moreover, regardless of which page I'm on, after clicking the Translate this page link in the lightbox, LT tries to load the same page: https://www.librarything.com/translate.php?page=2573247362
That seems suspicious.
ETA: Moreover, regardless of which page I'm on, after clicking the Translate this page link in the lightbox, LT tries to load the same page: https://www.librarything.com/translate.php?page=2573247362
That seems suspicious.
25SandraArdnas
>24 anglemark: I don't even see the lightbox. Where is it supposed to be?
Edit:nevermind, found it, apparently I haven't scrolled down enough. It never loads though, just keeps spinning and shows that it's trying to open that same 2573247362 page
Edit:nevermind, found it, apparently I haven't scrolled down enough. It never loads though, just keeps spinning and shows that it's trying to open that same 2573247362 page
26timspalding
Blank page issue
Sorry about that. I created a bug and went to bed—story of my life. Should be good now.
Sorry about that. I created a bug and went to bed—story of my life. Should be good now.
27timspalding
That seems suspicious.
It's a bug. Fixed. Thanks.
It's a bug. Fixed. Thanks.
28timspalding
The translation pages aren't loading and I'm not sure why. I'll get back on it later this afternoon.
29MarthaJeanne
>22 PawsforThought: And what about all the works that are only in one language? Or the people using languages that not a lot has been translated into?
30PawsforThought
>29 MarthaJeanne: Well obviously titles that have not been translated can’t have a translation. And if you’d read my comment you’d notice that I didn’t say the titles should be automatically translated to the language used on LT, but that I’d like to be able to choose what language an author’s works are displayed in.
31ocrhdlg
>1 timspalding: LT does not seem to remember the language choice once one has cleared cookies. Is that right? Could it not be added to a member's profile?
32timspalding
So I think the proposal here is:
* Member can have a list of languages they read/know.
* When they look at a work page for a book written in a language other than their current site language, it will use the original language if it's on the list of languages they know.
* Member can have a list of languages they read/know.
* When they look at a work page for a book written in a language other than their current site language, it will use the original language if it's on the list of languages they know.
33ocrhdlg
>32 timspalding: Your original post said that now "you can change the language of LibraryThing at any time". I took that to mean the overall site language, as you said that you were moving away from dedicated language websites.
34Cynfelyn
>7 timspalding: Thanks for the hints. Firefox Private Browsing (why can't I type that without thinking of Dara Ó Briain turning into Benny Hill? Here's why, starting at 01.00) won't let me log on to either LT account, presumably while I'm logged on to the open window.
As you say, those of us with more than one account will probably have to sign in and out, or have discrete sessions until you instigate a picker.
P.S. It's a bit of a unicorn / soap box, but now is too good an opportunity not to ask about a long-standing RSI for 'Language-site specific profile pages', now presumably 'Language-choice specific profile pages'. Could this be rolled into these language changes? Please.
Thanks also >9 GraceCollection:.
As you say, those of us with more than one account will probably have to sign in and out, or have discrete sessions until you instigate a picker.
P.S. It's a bit of a unicorn / soap box, but now is too good an opportunity not to ask about a long-standing RSI for 'Language-site specific profile pages', now presumably 'Language-choice specific profile pages'. Could this be rolled into these language changes? Please.
Thanks also >9 GraceCollection:.
35timspalding
>33 ocrhdlg:
You can. This is something extra a member wants. You can change the site language now, and it will put books in that language, if we have that info. But that's ALL books. So, for example, The Name of the Rose will use the English title when the site is in English, the Italian title when the site is in Italian, and the French title when it's in French. The idea proposed above is that someone can see it in Italian all the time, if they read Italian.
You can. This is something extra a member wants. You can change the site language now, and it will put books in that language, if we have that info. But that's ALL books. So, for example, The Name of the Rose will use the English title when the site is in English, the Italian title when the site is in Italian, and the French title when it's in French. The idea proposed above is that someone can see it in Italian all the time, if they read Italian.
36PawsforThought
>32 timspalding: That would be great if possible!
37DuncanHill
>12 timspalding: I chose English (UK), and it was shewing as English (UK) until just now when it shewed as English. So I clicked and chose English (UK) again.
38timspalding
>37 DuncanHill: Hmm. A cached page. Next time move around a bit on other pages.
Or did you leave LT and come back?
Or did you leave LT and come back?
39birder4106
For me, the first impression of the new language handling was a pleasant surprise. Switching from one language variant to another worked perfectly.
I also promised myself a more complete translation of the site into German and an improvement in the translation tools.
Now a bigger problem has arisen for us.
My wife and I use different LT accounts.
One account each for us. We also manage accounts for two older people who, for various reasons, can no longer do this themselves. My wife has her own account for her very extensive library of children's books, which she acquired as a former teacher. And I run a book club library.
So far so good.
In order to keep an eye on the dozens of passwords that have accumulated not only in LibraryThing, not only on the computer, but also on the laptop, mobile phones and tablets, we have been using a password manager for years.
Since the change in the handling of language variants in LT, this no longer works.
Until now, when logging in to our browser (Firefox on macOS 12.7.6), our password manager PM (Lastpass) suggested the last login option used for this website. This could be confirmed and you were then registered by the PM. If you wanted to switch to another version, you entered the first letters of the user name, which was continually updated. You selected the appropriate option, whereupon the password was added by the PM and registration took place.
Since the changes in LT, the LT login mask no longer recognizes the PM. We are forced to open the PM and enter the username and password details.
This makes the unfortunately very frequent changing of LT accounts a nuisance for us.
Have other users noticed such behavior?
Does it only occur in our configuration (Mac, iPhone, Firefox, Lastpass)?
Are the developers also aware of the problem?
And can we expect that the original behavior will be restored?
(Translated from German using Google Translator)
I also promised myself a more complete translation of the site into German and an improvement in the translation tools.
Now a bigger problem has arisen for us.
My wife and I use different LT accounts.
One account each for us. We also manage accounts for two older people who, for various reasons, can no longer do this themselves. My wife has her own account for her very extensive library of children's books, which she acquired as a former teacher. And I run a book club library.
So far so good.
In order to keep an eye on the dozens of passwords that have accumulated not only in LibraryThing, not only on the computer, but also on the laptop, mobile phones and tablets, we have been using a password manager for years.
Since the change in the handling of language variants in LT, this no longer works.
Until now, when logging in to our browser (Firefox on macOS 12.7.6), our password manager PM (Lastpass) suggested the last login option used for this website. This could be confirmed and you were then registered by the PM. If you wanted to switch to another version, you entered the first letters of the user name, which was continually updated. You selected the appropriate option, whereupon the password was added by the PM and registration took place.
Since the changes in LT, the LT login mask no longer recognizes the PM. We are forced to open the PM and enter the username and password details.
This makes the unfortunately very frequent changing of LT accounts a nuisance for us.
Have other users noticed such behavior?
Does it only occur in our configuration (Mac, iPhone, Firefox, Lastpass)?
Are the developers also aware of the problem?
And can we expect that the original behavior will be restored?
(Translated from German using Google Translator)
40CDVicarage
>38 timspalding: Same for me I changed to English (UK) but when I re-opened my browser (Firefox) and started up LT it was back to English again, several times now.
41SandraArdnas
>38 timspalding: >40 CDVicarage: I think only the display on top might be bugged. I tested by switching to Croatian. When I restarted Firefox display said English, but the interface was actually still in Croatian.
42CDVicarage
>41 SandraArdnas: That's interesting!
43timspalding
>40 CDVicarage: >38 timspalding: timspalding: Same for me I changed to English (UK) but when I re-opened my browser (Firefox) and started up LT it was back to English again, several times now.
So I'll explain how we implemented this. It boils down to this:
Language selection is stored on a cookie, not as part of your account per se.
The language cookie gets changed when:
1. You change it from the menu.
2. You choose it from a lightbox. This happens when you go to an old, non-English domain. It forwards you to LibraryThing and asks what language you want to use.(1)
2. You go to a non-English sign-in page—a page with /t/ in it, like /t/fr (http://www.librarything.com/t/fr)
The advantage of our approach is:
1. It's both technically and conceptually simple--there's one setting, and the user is in complete control of it.
2. We can very easily keep track of the language choice for people who haven't created an account yet, or when someone signs out.
3. We don't have to deal with the complexities of what happens if you use LibraryThing in one language, and then sign into an account that's set to another.
4. You can switch languages easily, not have to go find some other domain where you aren't signed in.
The downside of the approach is:
1. If your browser deletes cookies whenever you close the browser—common on high-security systems—it deletes both the signed-in and the language cookie. So you'll come back to LibraryThing in English, signed out.
2. If someone uses LibraryThing in French on their computer, and then they sign in on their phone or a friend's computer, it won't be in French until they choose it there.
So that's how it works.
In theory, we could add the following wrinkle:
1. When you flip LibraryThing to a language, it marks that as your most recent language.
2. When you sign in, it checks to see if your current language is the same as your "most recent" language, and asks which one you want.
This might be nice, but it won't change that the sign-in page is always going to be in English if your browser deletes cookies.
Preferred Browser Language
We are also going to add the following wrinkle in the near future:
Your browser has a "preferred language" setting. You've probably never changed it; you chose it when you first added the browser, or it inherited it from your overall system settings. If you buy a computer in the UK, your computer and browser will be set to prefer UK English. If you bought it in France, French, etc. When you buy a Mac, it's the first question you answer.
Anyway, we can tell when the preferred language differs from the site you're using, and ask people what they would prefer. In THEORY, we shouldn't do this--we should just obey the preferred language. That's the standard. But for various reasons I think that's a bridge too far for LibraryThing.
The trick here is not being annoying. There are going to be Norwegians who love LibraryThing and always use it in English. It would be annoying if LibraryThing asked them what language they want all the time. It would particularly annoying if this happened every time they signed in and out. So, again, we can set a cookie—a cookie that tells LibraryThing "look, you already asked them about browser/site dissonance, buddy." But, also again, if your browser deletes all cookies all the time, well, you're going to be asked again and again.
Anyway, we have the "preferred language dissonance" feature ready to go. I'm waiting for things to calm down on this front before I turn it on.
Footnotes!
1. You'd think that, if you hit a page on Danish LibraryThing, you want Danish LibraryThing. Right? But Google has often indexed pages in one language and not another. So someone searches for an obscure book and clicks the link. Hey presto—it's in Danish?! We can already see that a lot of people who stumble onto a non-English LibraryThing actually want the English version.
So I'll explain how we implemented this. It boils down to this:
Language selection is stored on a cookie, not as part of your account per se.
The language cookie gets changed when:
1. You change it from the menu.
2. You choose it from a lightbox. This happens when you go to an old, non-English domain. It forwards you to LibraryThing and asks what language you want to use.(1)
2. You go to a non-English sign-in page—a page with /t/ in it, like /t/fr (http://www.librarything.com/t/fr)
The advantage of our approach is:
1. It's both technically and conceptually simple--there's one setting, and the user is in complete control of it.
2. We can very easily keep track of the language choice for people who haven't created an account yet, or when someone signs out.
3. We don't have to deal with the complexities of what happens if you use LibraryThing in one language, and then sign into an account that's set to another.
4. You can switch languages easily, not have to go find some other domain where you aren't signed in.
The downside of the approach is:
1. If your browser deletes cookies whenever you close the browser—common on high-security systems—it deletes both the signed-in and the language cookie. So you'll come back to LibraryThing in English, signed out.
2. If someone uses LibraryThing in French on their computer, and then they sign in on their phone or a friend's computer, it won't be in French until they choose it there.
So that's how it works.
In theory, we could add the following wrinkle:
1. When you flip LibraryThing to a language, it marks that as your most recent language.
2. When you sign in, it checks to see if your current language is the same as your "most recent" language, and asks which one you want.
This might be nice, but it won't change that the sign-in page is always going to be in English if your browser deletes cookies.
Preferred Browser Language
We are also going to add the following wrinkle in the near future:
Your browser has a "preferred language" setting. You've probably never changed it; you chose it when you first added the browser, or it inherited it from your overall system settings. If you buy a computer in the UK, your computer and browser will be set to prefer UK English. If you bought it in France, French, etc. When you buy a Mac, it's the first question you answer.
Anyway, we can tell when the preferred language differs from the site you're using, and ask people what they would prefer. In THEORY, we shouldn't do this--we should just obey the preferred language. That's the standard. But for various reasons I think that's a bridge too far for LibraryThing.
The trick here is not being annoying. There are going to be Norwegians who love LibraryThing and always use it in English. It would be annoying if LibraryThing asked them what language they want all the time. It would particularly annoying if this happened every time they signed in and out. So, again, we can set a cookie—a cookie that tells LibraryThing "look, you already asked them about browser/site dissonance, buddy." But, also again, if your browser deletes all cookies all the time, well, you're going to be asked again and again.
Anyway, we have the "preferred language dissonance" feature ready to go. I'm waiting for things to calm down on this front before I turn it on.
Footnotes!
1. You'd think that, if you hit a page on Danish LibraryThing, you want Danish LibraryThing. Right? But Google has often indexed pages in one language and not another. So someone searches for an obscure book and clicks the link. Hey presto—it's in Danish?! We can already see that a lot of people who stumble onto a non-English LibraryThing actually want the English version.
44SandraArdnas
>43 timspalding: FWIW, my browser does not delete cookies on closing, but it still reverted to English when I closed and restarted. More precisely, the display in the top right corner showed English, but the interface was actually in Croatian as it should have been. So there's probably some minor bug there
45.mau.
>1 timspalding: this will be nice: every time I got a message from LT and I click on the link I went to librarything.it and I have to change URL :-)
46PawsforThought
Anyway, we can tell when the preferred language differs from the site you're using, and ask people what they would prefer. In THEORY, we shouldn't do this--we should just obey the preferred language. That's the standard. But for various reasons I think that's a bridge too far for LibraryThing.
Please, please, don’t ever automatically assume users want to use a specific language on LT just because it’s their preferred setting on their device. I use Swedish on my devices because it makes more sense to me (especially since I’m not super-knowledgeable about tech and those types of words are tricker in a second or third (or whatever) language). But using websites is different and I much prefer to use websites in English (or whatever the original language of the site is). It drives me mad when YouTube randomly decides to auto-translate titles of videos for me without my ever having asked for it.
Please, please, don’t ever automatically assume users want to use a specific language on LT just because it’s their preferred setting on their device. I use Swedish on my devices because it makes more sense to me (especially since I’m not super-knowledgeable about tech and those types of words are tricker in a second or third (or whatever) language). But using websites is different and I much prefer to use websites in English (or whatever the original language of the site is). It drives me mad when YouTube randomly decides to auto-translate titles of videos for me without my ever having asked for it.
47MarthaJeanne
>46 PawsforThought: The internet world hasn't cottoned on to the fact that there are people who can deal with multiple languages. I get tired of websites showing me German because my computer is in Austria or the English version because my computer is set to English somewhere. In both cases the translation of the website is usually so bad that it is useless to me.
Tim, I don't think you will be able to get around having an account setting for preferred language. It's OK for me because I want the English version, I don't clear cookies, and rarely sign out. But if you want to be a multilingual site, it's got to be possible for people to set what language site they want to see on LT.
Tim, I don't think you will be able to get around having an account setting for preferred language. It's OK for me because I want the English version, I don't clear cookies, and rarely sign out. But if you want to be a multilingual site, it's got to be possible for people to set what language site they want to see on LT.
48ocrhdlg
>47 MarthaJeanne: In Account Settings there is a choice of "Primary Language". But selecting English (UK) doesn't seem to have any effect. At least, "favourites" is still spelt "favorites".
49birder4106
>47 MarthaJeanne:
Thanks for your vote.
It corresponds exactly to the behavior that I prefer.
I fully support your suggestion.
Thanks for your vote.
It corresponds exactly to the behavior that I prefer.
I fully support your suggestion.
50PawsforThought
>47 MarthaJeanne: Oh, yeah - the vast majority of the time I stumble upon a site like that I immediately leave and try not to come back if it can be avoided. As someone who's a major language nerd and has (and occasionally still do) worked with translations, it hurts both my head and my heart to see bad translations. If you're stupid enough to not realise that people can understand more than one language then you're too stupid for me to deal with.
Oh, and I'm now on my work laptop instead of my Ipad and the language at the top is showing as "English" instead of "English (UK)" and I'm getting red lines underneath the words I've used British spellings for so I'm assuming it's switched to American English.
Oh, and I'm now on my work laptop instead of my Ipad and the language at the top is showing as "English" instead of "English (UK)" and I'm getting red lines underneath the words I've used British spellings for so I'm assuming it's switched to American English.
51MarthaJeanne
>50 PawsforThought: If your browser is Safari, that is probably where the red lines are coming from. Somehow I have convinced my iPad to accept both English (UK) and German. but there are a few words I use YS spellings for, not to mention common names I use.
52PawsforThought
>51 MarthaJeanne: Nope, using Chrome. I only use Safari on my phone and the red lines aren't showing up there. Only on the laptop.
53abbottthomas
>43 timspalding: Why does the language revert to 'English' when 'English' is not an option in the language menu? I am running in English UK.
54Petroglyph
Switching the language to English (UK) means that CK fields in English now come with a prompt to change the language. Is this desired behaviour? Can this be disabled for this particular language pairing?
55timspalding
>48 ocrhdlg: True. We haven't connected that up yet. I'll look at it. Previously it did almost nothing--it set the default language of your reviews and… that's it, I think.
>47 MarthaJeanne: >50 PawsforThought: Oh, yeah - the vast majority of the time I stumble upon a site like that I immediately leave and try not to come back if it can be avoided.
Yes, I agree. We aren't going to change the language without people choosing to do it.
Oh, and I'm now on my work laptop instead of my Ipad and the language at the top is showing as "English" instead of "English (UK)"
Yes. See cookie explanation at >43 timspalding:. It lives on one computer, not across them.
>51 MarthaJeanne: If your browser is Safari, that is probably where the red lines are coming from.
Yes. We don't control the red lines. That's your browser/computer.
>54 Petroglyph: Switching the language to English (UK) means that CK fields in English now come with a prompt to change the language. Is this desired behaviour? Can this be disabled for this particular language pairing?
Good point. We'll fix that.
>47 MarthaJeanne: >50 PawsforThought: Oh, yeah - the vast majority of the time I stumble upon a site like that I immediately leave and try not to come back if it can be avoided.
Yes, I agree. We aren't going to change the language without people choosing to do it.
Oh, and I'm now on my work laptop instead of my Ipad and the language at the top is showing as "English" instead of "English (UK)"
Yes. See cookie explanation at >43 timspalding:. It lives on one computer, not across them.
>51 MarthaJeanne: If your browser is Safari, that is probably where the red lines are coming from.
Yes. We don't control the red lines. That's your browser/computer.
>54 Petroglyph: Switching the language to English (UK) means that CK fields in English now come with a prompt to change the language. Is this desired behaviour? Can this be disabled for this particular language pairing?
Good point. We'll fix that.
58anglemark
>57 timspalding: Indeed. Muchas gracias!
59timspalding
Okay, I've added:
If you sign into a language that's not what you have listed for your "primary language" on https://www.librarything.com/settings/account, it will ask you if you want that one or the other one.
Switching the language to English (UK) means that CK fields in English now come with a prompt to change the language. Is this desired behaviour? Can this be disabled for this particular language pairing?
Fixed this and some other places where it treated English (UK) as a full and different language. It's now a sort of half-language. ;)
If you sign into a language that's not what you have listed for your "primary language" on https://www.librarything.com/settings/account, it will ask you if you want that one or the other one.
Switching the language to English (UK) means that CK fields in English now come with a prompt to change the language. Is this desired behaviour? Can this be disabled for this particular language pairing?
Fixed this and some other places where it treated English (UK) as a full and different language. It's now a sort of half-language. ;)
60timspalding
Okay, I've got the browser-language detection on. It will only ask you once—unless you clear your cookies, or your browser does it automatically. Let's see how it goes.
61snellius
I.m.h.o. A very bad change for users using other languages and for me it is probably ending my use of Librarything as before. My preferred language is Dutch, before I got the Dutch titles when I was looking for books using the author page. Now I only see directly all the English titles or is there a way to see the titles in other languages?
62SandraArdnas
>61 snellius: I would expect it to show the titles in the active language, provided Canonical Title for that language has been entered, but I just tested with some Croatian books and it doesn't. Maybe a bug?
63Aquila
>57 timspalding: Thank you!
64timspalding
>61 snellius:
No change has been made in the feature you're talking about. If you're using the site in Dutch, it will prefer the Dutch title. If you use it in English, it will prefer the English title. No change.
No change has been made in the feature you're talking about. If you're using the site in Dutch, it will prefer the Dutch title. If you use it in English, it will prefer the English title. No change.
65timspalding
>64 timspalding:
Aha. Maybe something I did last night changed it. Working on it. Give me an hour or two.
Aha. Maybe something I did last night changed it. Working on it. Give me an hour or two.
66timspalding
>63 Aquila:, >64 timspalding:
Thanks for the bug report. Something had indeed come unglued; I swapped two similar variable names and it messed things up. Book titles should now appear in your current language, if we have that information.
Checked by looking at book on the French site. The Red and the Black is now Le Rouge et le Noir, etc.
Thanks for the bug report. Something had indeed come unglued; I swapped two similar variable names and it messed things up. Book titles should now appear in your current language, if we have that information.
Checked by looking at book on the French site. The Red and the Black is now Le Rouge et le Noir, etc.
67PawsforThought
>66 timspalding:
Does this mean that since I'm using LT English (UK) I'm going to see ALL titles in English from now on? No matter what the most popular one on LT is? If so, that makes my irritation regarding languages in titles worse than before. (I can understand that it is preferable to many people, but seeing titles originally in e.g. your native tongue appear in another language *all the time* just because you prefer the website to show in that language is quite annoying.
Does this mean that since I'm using LT English (UK) I'm going to see ALL titles in English from now on? No matter what the most popular one on LT is? If so, that makes my irritation regarding languages in titles worse than before. (I can understand that it is preferable to many people, but seeing titles originally in e.g. your native tongue appear in another language *all the time* just because you prefer the website to show in that language is quite annoying.
68timspalding
>67 PawsforThought:
Ack! Literally nothing has changed.
No. It gives the most popular title, but that will generally be the English.
The way it works—the way it has always worked(1)—is this:
1. In book contexts, it gives the title you own.
1a. So, your catalog, etc.
2b. If you're on a work page, and you have the work, it considers that a book context.
2. If you using the site in non-English language X, it prefers to give you the most popular X title for the work. If it doesn't have one, see #3.
3. If you are using the site in English, or #2 has failed, it gives you the most popular title. This will probably be the English title.
4. Canonical titles overrule popular titles.
5. There are caching layers in place, so the most popular AT THIS MOMENT, may not be the one chosen.
1. Except for several hours last night.
Ack! Literally nothing has changed.
No. It gives the most popular title, but that will generally be the English.
The way it works—the way it has always worked(1)—is this:
1. In book contexts, it gives the title you own.
1a. So, your catalog, etc.
2b. If you're on a work page, and you have the work, it considers that a book context.
2. If you using the site in non-English language X, it prefers to give you the most popular X title for the work. If it doesn't have one, see #3.
3. If you are using the site in English, or #2 has failed, it gives you the most popular title. This will probably be the English title.
4. Canonical titles overrule popular titles.
5. There are caching layers in place, so the most popular AT THIS MOMENT, may not be the one chosen.
1. Except for several hours last night.
69snellius
>65 timspalding: Ok. It works again like before. Thanks.
70abbottthomas
After a brief period of displaying 'English (UK)' I am back to seeing 'English'. It matters not a jot, but why?
72timspalding
I've written up a blog post, summarizing the changes and going into some details:
https://blog.librarything.com/2024/10/librarything-in-your-language-2/
https://blog.librarything.com/2024/10/librarything-in-your-language-2/
75Cynfelyn
>72 timspalding: In the blog, you write:
"Multiple Accounts. Some members appreciated being able to have one member on one language site, and another on another. I think it’s clear we need to get a “Switch account” feature, like Facebook and some other sites have."
I'm one of those "some members", but I do wonder whether you really need a "switch account" feature. When I sign out now I am sent to LT's front page, https://www.librarything.com/t/gb or https://www.librarything.com/t/cym, where the Username box is ready-supplied with a drop-down menu of my two accounts, which when selected auto-fills the appropriate password. I can swap between accounts in less than ten seconds, including choosing a language for the session and getting out of the home page (which, sorry, I don't care for) and on to the profile page. I presume it was just a matter of ticking a "Remember me" box sometime in the past; I forget.
P.S. Is there any hope at all for language-choice specific profile pages (e.g. >34 Cynfelyn: above), please?
"Multiple Accounts. Some members appreciated being able to have one member on one language site, and another on another. I think it’s clear we need to get a “Switch account” feature, like Facebook and some other sites have."
I'm one of those "some members", but I do wonder whether you really need a "switch account" feature. When I sign out now I am sent to LT's front page, https://www.librarything.com/t/gb or https://www.librarything.com/t/cym, where the Username box is ready-supplied with a drop-down menu of my two accounts, which when selected auto-fills the appropriate password. I can swap between accounts in less than ten seconds, including choosing a language for the session and getting out of the home page (which, sorry, I don't care for) and on to the profile page. I presume it was just a matter of ticking a "Remember me" box sometime in the past; I forget.
P.S. Is there any hope at all for language-choice specific profile pages (e.g. >34 Cynfelyn: above), please?
76gilroy
>75 Cynfelyn: That autofill is frequently a browser feature which some people disable for security purposes.
77timspalding
>76 gilroy: >75 Cynfelyn:
Yes, this is a browser thing, not a LibraryThing thing. I don't know which browsers do it. Mine don't—Chrome or Safari on Mac—so it can't be ubiquitous.
Yes, this is a browser thing, not a LibraryThing thing. I don't know which browsers do it. Mine don't—Chrome or Safari on Mac—so it can't be ubiquitous.
78gilroy
Chrome has the feature, but is frequently disabled on install and one needs to enable it.
Firefox and Edge (*shudder*) both have the feature active from install.
Firefox and Edge (*shudder*) both have the feature active from install.
79LibraryCin
This Canadian is just a bit amused, trying to figure out if she should choose US or UK English. It's kind of a combination for me!
82anglemark
>80 pith: Every time you log in? If I close the browser window/tab for LT, I have to select the language again every time I open a new window or tab with librarything.com, even though I'm not logged out. I assumed this was an intentional part of the new langauage management, annoying as it is.
83gilroy
>82 anglemark: You may want to go to the bug and add your notes.
84DuncanHill
>80 pith:
>82 anglemark:
Go to Settings.
Account settings https://www.librarything.com/settings/account
Choose Primary language
EDIT
Oh ignore that, even though "account settings" remembers, the "English" at top right of every page doesn't.
>82 anglemark:
Go to Settings.
Account settings https://www.librarything.com/settings/account
Choose Primary language
EDIT
Oh ignore that, even though "account settings" remembers, the "English" at top right of every page doesn't.
85MrAndrew
>79 LibraryCin: English (Canuck, eh)
87anglemark
>84 DuncanHill: I have the language setting alright. LibraryThing seems to ignore that. See what I wrote in the bug report thread.
88DuncanHill
>86 timspalding: I mean if your primary language is set to English (UK) the language at top right changes back to English when you close browser and return, but the primary language does not change. There is a mis-match between primary language and that displayed at top right. Setting Primary language appears to be pointless.
89PawsforThought
I’m now also noticing that the language changes back to “English” (I had it set to “English (UK)” even on the same device despite not having cleared cookies.
91GraceCollection
>79 LibraryCin: I think in general terms, 'UK English' is the one that fits best for English speakers outside of either the US or UK. Spelling, at least, is usually consistent from 'UK English' to AUS/NZ to Canada to India to South Africa, although some vocabulary, slang, and sometimes grammar rules vary between them all. Ironic, then, to me at least, that the one labeled only 'English' is actually the US-exclusive version!
92LibraryCin
>91 GraceCollection: I agree! I did end up choosing UK for me.
93krazy4katz
What is interesting to me is that all of these places were British colonies at one time but only English in the US is considered to be separate. Is that because the US broke away earlier and had so much diverse immigration? I wouldn’t think that would account for the spelling differences.
94PawsforThought
>93 krazy4katz: The US also had a spelling reform (Noah Webster is the man behind a lot of that) which separated itself from the traditional UK spellings.
95MarthaJeanne
>93 krazy4katz: The others are also separate forms of English with their own specific vocabularies and so on, but they don't have the numbers behind them that the US does.
96lilithcat
>94 PawsforThought:
Yes, I just read about him in The Dictionary People. He’s the one who got us using “honor” rather than “honour”, “center” instead of “centre”, and “traveling” instead of “travelling”. He wasn’t as successful with some of his other ideas, tho.
Yes, I just read about him in The Dictionary People. He’s the one who got us using “honor” rather than “honour”, “center” instead of “centre”, and “traveling” instead of “travelling”. He wasn’t as successful with some of his other ideas, tho.
97PawsforThought
>96 lilithcat: Yeah, he had quite a few more radical ideas that didn't get a lot of traction.
99LibraryCin
>94 PawsforThought: That's really interesting. I didn't know that!
100MrAndrew
neesh instead of niche, click instead of clique, aloominum instead of aluminium, nukuler instead of nuclear. Such a shame.
101timspalding
>98 hredwards: Is this why every time i log in it asks for what language I want? It's annoying.
Which languages is it asking about?
Which languages is it asking about?
102anglemark
>101 timspalding: It's asking me for Swedish, not just every time I log in (I do that very rarely) but every time I open a new tab for LT if one isn't already open. If I have an LT tab open, nothing happens if I open a new one. If all are closed, I am prompted for language when I open one.
103PawsforThought
>102 anglemark: Do you have settings that automatically clear your cookies when you leave a website? That would cause the language question to pop up.
104defaults
I wish LT didn't store site preferences as cookies. It's not just the language. I never visit the user home page because of the way it keeps forgetting I want to see Titles (always and everywhere), not Covers.
105anglemark
>103 PawsforThought: Nope, I just checked to make sure.
106civitas
>43 timspalding: The downside of the approach is: ... If your browser deletes cookies whenever you close the browser ...
I browse in stealth mode so when I close my browser, cookies and account logins are deleted.
I now must re-select a language on every login. This is unnecessary for the great majority of users. LT has my login credentials, uses them to read my LT Primary Language setting, and then uses that information (in conjunction with the new cookie) to build the popup menu asking me to re-confirm my preferred language.
The language popup menu solves a problem that most users don't have – usually, they only use a single language. The last language used is almost always going to be their LT Primary Language. Automatically using this language and eliminating the popup would simplify the login procedure for almost everyone.
Those users who do use multiple languages have the LT Primary Language to simplify some percentage of their logins and an easy way to bring up the language menu when they want to change. The current implementation has the multi-language tail wagging the single language dog.
Suggestions:
1. Move the cookie to a persistent field in the database.
2. Make the LT Primary Language field multi-valued. At login, if the field has a single value use it and don't show the popup menu else if the field has multiple values, use these values to build the login popup menu.
N.B.: LT's Primary Language field is not the browser's preferred language setting mentioned in earlier posts
I browse in stealth mode so when I close my browser, cookies and account logins are deleted.
I now must re-select a language on every login. This is unnecessary for the great majority of users. LT has my login credentials, uses them to read my LT Primary Language setting, and then uses that information (in conjunction with the new cookie) to build the popup menu asking me to re-confirm my preferred language.
The language popup menu solves a problem that most users don't have – usually, they only use a single language. The last language used is almost always going to be their LT Primary Language. Automatically using this language and eliminating the popup would simplify the login procedure for almost everyone.
Those users who do use multiple languages have the LT Primary Language to simplify some percentage of their logins and an easy way to bring up the language menu when they want to change. The current implementation has the multi-language tail wagging the single language dog.
Suggestions:
1. Move the cookie to a persistent field in the database.
2. Make the LT Primary Language field multi-valued. At login, if the field has a single value use it and don't show the popup menu else if the field has multiple values, use these values to build the login popup menu.
N.B.: LT's Primary Language field is not the browser's preferred language setting mentioned in earlier posts
107timspalding
>106 civitas:
Can you tell me when you get the message?
What is your browser set to?
What is your LT primary language set to?
Can you tell me when you get the message?
What is your browser set to?
What is your LT primary language set to?
108civitas
Browser: Opera Version: 114.0.5282.102 - this the most current
Browser Preferred language: English (USA)
Browser mode: private - cookies are deleted when the browser is closed
There are no preexisting LT cookies at login
LT Primary Language field: English (US)
Go to LT...
LT login page: English (US)
Enter credentials...
My Home Page (in english - dimmed) with the language popup in English:
Choose a language: English (USA) English (UK) Other
Select English ...
Home page is in English (USA)
Update the LT Primary Language field to French and restart the browser ...
There are no preexisting LT cookies
LT Primary Language field: French
LT login page: English (US)
enter credentials ...
My Home Page (in english - dimmed) with the language popup in French (with English sub-titles):
Choisissez une langue: Français / Anglais (États-Unis) Autre
Select Français
Home page is in French
The behavior is the same with the current version of MS Edge.
109timspalding
>108 civitas:
Sorry, but that's the desired behavior.
1. It can't start in English if you go to LibraryThing.com itself. It doesn't know what you were using before, because you have no cookies.
2. If you log in with a language, that language is a choice. So it gives you a choice between your saved Primary Language and the one you chose.
3. If you want to start on the French log-in page, bookmark https://www.librarything.com/t/fr or choose your language on the English log-in page.
Sorry, but that's the desired behavior.
1. It can't start in English if you go to LibraryThing.com itself. It doesn't know what you were using before, because you have no cookies.
2. If you log in with a language, that language is a choice. So it gives you a choice between your saved Primary Language and the one you chose.
3. If you want to start on the French log-in page, bookmark https://www.librarything.com/t/fr or choose your language on the English log-in page.
110civitas
>109 timspalding: that's the desired behavior.
I know.
My point is that the language menu is rarely needed for most users - they've already specified their primary language. You have the information to select the correct language without the menu. Prior to login use the user's browser's language - it's most probably the user's language of choice, after login use the LT Primary Language that the user already selected. Needing to make a fresh (re)selection from multiple languages before completing the login is not the usual use case. Yes, the cookies will keep track of things.
As I delete cookies between sessions, I just find this implementation choice a bit unfortunate.
I know.
My point is that the language menu is rarely needed for most users - they've already specified their primary language. You have the information to select the correct language without the menu. Prior to login use the user's browser's language - it's most probably the user's language of choice, after login use the LT Primary Language that the user already selected. Needing to make a fresh (re)selection from multiple languages before completing the login is not the usual use case. Yes, the cookies will keep track of things.
As I delete cookies between sessions, I just find this implementation choice a bit unfortunate.
111timspalding
>110 civitas:
I think I could add a checkbox under "PRimary Language" that's something like "Force on sign-up" or something, so you can skip this choice.
I think I could add a checkbox under "PRimary Language" that's something like "Force on sign-up" or something, so you can skip this choice.
112anglemark
>109 timspalding: Thanks, that gave me the clue I needed to why I am prompted to choose the language all the time. My problem has been fixed.
113ocrhdlg
>111 timspalding: That would be good.
114Sagitta61
Good morning! I have observed (but I don't know if it is related) that after the transition to a single domain with a set of languages, there was an incredible slowness in loading the covers (some of them are not loaded due to the slowness). The same happens consequently on librarycat. I don't know if it's just my account or my language (Italian)!
115Cynfelyn
>114 Sagitta61: Yes. I'm getting the same (slow to load, or not loading at all) on the main site in English (UK) and Welsh. I don't use librarycat.
ETA: This isn't just on books' work pages, but also on CK People/Characters, Important places and Important events.
ETA: This isn't just on books' work pages, but also on CK People/Characters, Important places and Important events.
117civitas
>111 timspalding: I could add a checkbox...
That would be great and would give everyone explicit control.
Thanks.
That would be great and would give everyone explicit control.
Thanks.
118AndreasJ
I've also had slow covers lately, but FWIW my impression is that it started some days after the language changes took effect.
119timspalding
>118 AndreasJ:
Yes. It's unrelated, but it did start around the same time. We are working on the pics system. We had a server die and may have to replace a chip.
Yes. It's unrelated, but it did start around the same time. We are working on the pics system. We had a server die and may have to replace a chip.
120hredwards
>101 timspalding: It asks if I want English, English (UK) or Other. Every time I log in.
123timspalding
>122 hredwards: and etc.
Okay, I fixed a bug where English-language users got the pop-up when they should not have.
Okay, I fixed a bug where English-language users got the pop-up when they should not have.
124FiLoMa
I appreciate this feature being introduced allowing me, in Australia, to switch to the English (UK) option. This seems like a small thing, but from my point of view, it's something I really appreciate.
125civitas
>123 timspalding: fixed a bug where English-language users got the pop-up when they should not have.
This now works for me (English (US)) - the unneeded popup is gone. Thanks.
It should be noted however, if my LT language is set to English (UK) and I login, in private mode, I still get the pop up asking if I want to switch the language to English (UK), English (US), or Other. Other languages also still get a popup asking to confirm the current LT language setting or switch to English.
This now works for me (English (US)) - the unneeded popup is gone. Thanks.
It should be noted however, if my LT language is set to English (UK) and I login, in private mode, I still get the pop up asking if I want to switch the language to English (UK), English (US), or Other. Other languages also still get a popup asking to confirm the current LT language setting or switch to English.
126timspalding
>125 civitas:
Yes. If your browser is set to US English, but your account is in UK English, it doesn't know which you want.
I appreciate this feature being introduced allowing me, in Australia, to switch to the English (UK) option. This seems like a small thing, but from my point of view, it's something I really appreciate.
Thanks. World enough and time, we'd have a special Aussie version too :)
Yes. If your browser is set to US English, but your account is in UK English, it doesn't know which you want.
I appreciate this feature being introduced allowing me, in Australia, to switch to the English (UK) option. This seems like a small thing, but from my point of view, it's something I really appreciate.
Thanks. World enough and time, we'd have a special Aussie version too :)
128MrAndrew
>126 timspalding: English (mate)
129hredwards
>123 timspalding: Thank you so much!!
130ocrhdlg
>111 timspalding: Did anything come of the idea to "add a checkbox under 'Primary Language' (in Settings) that's something like 'Force on sign-up'"?
131.mau.
>1 timspalding: I just received the mail message for the new batch of ER, (but I think it's a general issue with messages) and it still refers to https://www.librarything.it/ . It's true that Italian was set as my primary language at https://www.librarything.com/settings/account (and this explains why the header and footer of the message are in Italian) but I think that at least the URL should be changed.
Now I changed my primary language to English (USA), so maybe the issue is resolved in my case; but I believe the problem remains for other people.
Now I changed my primary language to English (USA), so maybe the issue is resolved in my case; but I believe the problem remains for other people.
132knerd.knitter
>131 .mau.: it still refers to https://www.librarything.it
Where did the message refer to librarything.it? Was it a link that tried to redirect you there?
Where did the message refer to librarything.it? Was it a link that tried to redirect you there?
133timspalding
>132 knerd.knitter:
There's a function that makes someone's domain. We need to change it, or not use it.
There's a function that makes someone's domain. We need to change it, or not use it.
134knerd.knitter
>133 timspalding: I was just wondering if it's in the footer or in the content of the message.
135.mau.
>132 knerd.knitter: here there is the beginning of the text of the message I received:
AbigailAdams26 ti ha appena mandato un messaggio su LibraryThing.
La tua conversazione con AbigailAdams26 è qui: https://www.librarything.it/conversation/AbigailAdams26
Tutte le tue conversazioni sono qui: https://www.librarything.it/messages
AbigailAdams26 ha scritto:
The November 2024 batch of Early Reviewer books is up!
» Check out the list
...
I think that since I set up Italian as my primary language the header of the message is in Italian. The text was of course in English, but there was a footer in Italian too: here it is.
(Questo messaggio ti è stato inviato perché hai scelto di ricevere i commenti al tuo indirizzo e-mail. Per disattivare questa funzione, scegli "modifica impostazioni profilo/account" e deseleziona "commenti per e-mail".)
The funniest thing is that there is a *second* footer, this time in English:
This message was sent to .mau.. Click to edit your email preferences or unsubscribe from future emails.
As I wrote in a previous message, I changed my primary language to English, since I don't use Italian anyway. If necessary, I can switch back to Italian so I can verify if the issue has been resolved.
AbigailAdams26 ti ha appena mandato un messaggio su LibraryThing.
La tua conversazione con AbigailAdams26 è qui: https://www.librarything.it/conversation/AbigailAdams26
Tutte le tue conversazioni sono qui: https://www.librarything.it/messages
AbigailAdams26 ha scritto:
The November 2024 batch of Early Reviewer books is up!
» Check out the list
...
I think that since I set up Italian as my primary language the header of the message is in Italian. The text was of course in English, but there was a footer in Italian too: here it is.
(Questo messaggio ti è stato inviato perché hai scelto di ricevere i commenti al tuo indirizzo e-mail. Per disattivare questa funzione, scegli "modifica impostazioni profilo/account" e deseleziona "commenti per e-mail".)
The funniest thing is that there is a *second* footer, this time in English:
This message was sent to .mau.. Click to edit your email preferences or unsubscribe from future emails.
As I wrote in a previous message, I changed my primary language to English, since I don't use Italian anyway. If necessary, I can switch back to Italian so I can verify if the issue has been resolved.
136anglemark
>135 .mau.: I have my primary language set to Swedish and this is what I got:
"AbigailAdams26 skickade just ett meddelande till dig på LibraryThing.
Din konversation med AbigailAdams26 är här: https://www.librarything.com/conversation/AbigailAdams26
Alla konversationer är här: https://www.librarything.com/messages "
etc. Not https://se.librarything.com/ that is the old Swedish URL. So whatever the bug is, it seems only to affect the big languages that had their own top domain.
-j
"AbigailAdams26 skickade just ett meddelande till dig på LibraryThing.
Din konversation med AbigailAdams26 är här: https://www.librarything.com/conversation/AbigailAdams26
Alla konversationer är här: https://www.librarything.com/messages "
etc. Not https://se.librarything.com/ that is the old Swedish URL. So whatever the bug is, it seems only to affect the big languages that had their own top domain.
-j
137MrAndrew
Wow. I was asked to sign in today, and then for my language selection. Weird thing was, it was defaulted to Spanish. No habla espanol here, obviously.
I miss the cookbooks. Maybe it should ask for your language preference by showing cookbooks in different languages.
I miss the cookbooks. Maybe it should ask for your language preference by showing cookbooks in different languages.
138timspalding
>137 MrAndrew: Or just different foods. Enjoy Indian food? LibraryThing is now in Hindi! :)
139Nevov
>54 Petroglyph: >55 timspalding: >59 timspalding:
Is having the English (UK) Common Knowledge be suppressed an all-fields-or-none thing? Because it could be useful for an English (UK) Canonical Title to be set and take effect so that users in that language get to see the title they are familiar with, for the times when books get a re-title on crossing the pond. Ditto when it happens in the other direction, too.
Is having the English (UK) Common Knowledge be suppressed an all-fields-or-none thing? Because it could be useful for an English (UK) Canonical Title to be set and take effect so that users in that language get to see the title they are familiar with, for the times when books get a re-title on crossing the pond. Ditto when it happens in the other direction, too.
140knerd.knitter
>135 .mau.: I believe this should be fixed now. Please let me know if future emails still come with references to the old subdomain.
141Maddz
Just posted a whole bunch of recent reviews to another site, and was noticing I had multiple reviews in English (UK) which is a distinct language from English for the purpose of reviews. Given the bulk of my reviews predate the language changes, this means (depending on which device I'm writing on) that my reviews were split across 2 languages. I cleared this by manually changing the 30+ English (UK) reviews to English.
Ideally, I ought to change all my reviews to English (UK), but that's not doable unless available via PowerEdit. Can review language be added to the CK language suppression?
Ideally, I ought to change all my reviews to English (UK), but that's not doable unless available via PowerEdit. Can review language be added to the CK language suppression?
