Kate’s Reading Journal 2025

>Books read July through December
July
All for Nothing by Walter Kerpowski - Reviewd
Shosha by Isaac Bashevis Singer- Reviewed
The Body of Soul by Ludmila Ulitskaya - Reviewed
The Names by Florence Knapp - Reviewed
Two Step Devil by Jamie Quatro - 3.5
August
Endling by Maria Reva - in progress
Flesh by David Szalay - Reviewed

>2 kjuliff: I'm so glad I finally read this book. It was such a delight, despite the desperate situation. Nice review.

>2 kjuliff: Great review. Glad you appreciated this book as much as I did.

>2 kjuliff: This is on my list of books to look for, but your review has made me eager to read it soon.

>2 kjuliff: you’re reading so much good stuff. Terrific review. Sounds fantastic!

>6 dchaikin: >5 RidgewayGirl: >4 rocketjk: >3 labfs39: thank you for all your kind words. Since Jerry introduced me to Isaac Bashevis Singer I’ve become obsessed with Eastern Europe before the end of WWII. I’m about to read Isaac Bashevis Singer’s Shosha. It’s odd that I’ve only recently been drawn to this time and location, strange because I grew up with so many people from that area. But then, they were all interested in being. “Western”. And now one of my best friends has settled in Warsaw. She was choosing between London, New York City and Paris for her social life and career. She’s Australian like me and has now decided to make Warsaw her home. Which is really strange as her parents fled from there.

>7 kjuliff: I could have sworn I had a copy of Shosha, I can even picture the cover, but it seems to have disappeared...

>8 labfs39: but have you already read it?

>7 kjuliff: i loved Shosha. I read it in 2001. Jerry’s review is excellent.

>8 labfs39: I have not read it yet.

Inspired by Jerry @rocketjk here is a photo of a view from my NYC apartment. Taken on a snowy day.

>12 kjuliff: Great view, thanks! Over the past couple of weeks of this crazy heat, I've been nostalgic for a bit of snow.

>12 kjuliff: 94 degrees here. That looks gorgeous

>12 kjuliff: It was taken one winter Dan. It was one of the few photos I have without scaffolding spoiling the view. We have required construction work that’s been going on for years. One good thing about the place is that we can’t be built out because of the park which although it might look small to a Texan, is quite big.

92F is on the cool side for an Australian :)

>12 kjuliff: Nice view, and pretty picture. It's been so humid here. Lots of thunderstorms.

It’s humid here in New York too. I think it’s the humidity it gets to people rather than the heat.

I’ve been enjoying, well it’s not quite the right word, Shosha by Isaac Bashevis Singer. I just love his books. There’s something about him that draws me in as no other writer does. And now that I have a friend who has settled in Warsaw, I just wish I could go and visit her and her new family there..

>17 kjuliff: i’m so glad you’re enjoying it!

What happens after you die?” my psychiatrist asked me during our last session. This question was not part of my therapy, she was just interested in my thoughts; we are around the same age. She then suggested I read. The Body of a Soul by Ludmilla Ulitskaya.

I mention this as having just finished Isaac Bashevis Singer’s Shosha it occurs to me that it would go well as a pair with by Ludmilla Ulitskaya’s The Body of a Soul book of short stories.

Though Ms Ulitskaya’s writing is not on a par with Singer’s (he sets a high bar) the questions about souls and where they live, for how long, and their viability plays an important role in both books.

>19 kjuliff: I'm impressed with your therapist's book suggestion. Bibliotherapy? Or simply a recommendation?

>20 labfs39: it was a recommendation following my answer to her question. . Occasionally, we’ll talk about books or politics that have nothing to do with the session. We have similar interests are of the same generation. Before she was a therapist she was a pathologist and is interested in the idea of the existence of “the soul”.

>19 kjuliff: fascinating question and recommendation.

The Body of the Soul is going on my Wishlist - sounds interesting.

I've not read anything by Singer yet. Where would you recommend starting?

>24 AlisonY: I really liked Enemies a Love Story. It’s one of his later works, and it is set mainly in post WWII New York with a back story of life in pre-war WWII Poland. I reviewed it here. I understand that it’s not considered his best work, but I really enjoyed it and feel it would be a good start for discovering the work of this wonderful writer.

Regarding The Body of a Soul, I’ve yet to finish it and it’s not as good as I had hoped. It’s in two parts and I’m hoping that part two will get more into topics that the title suggests. I’ll let you know what I think in a review.

>25 kjuliff: Thanks Kate - onto the WL.

>26 AlisonY: >24 AlisonY: I’ve now finished The Body of a Soul and part 2 was, as I had hoped much more to my liking, so now I can re-recommend it. The stories are short so it makes for a “between books” reading.

Ironically Ludmilla Ulitskaya was “silenced “ by the Russian government in 1970 for anti-government activities - distributing samizdat (books). She lost her government job as a geneticist at the Russian Institute of General Genetics and became a writer. I hope you enjoy my review of The Body of a Soul.

>29 kjuliff: Nice review, Kate

I’ve just finished The Names by Florence Knapp and was disappointed. I’m not sure yet if I will review the book. However, I was surprised by some of of the author’s end notes - Surprised to see her the recommending commercial artworks mentioned in the book along with the names of their studios and associated website addresses.

More ethical is the publisher’s endnote sadly necessary for books published from 2024 on.

We hope you’ve enjoyed this … please note that part of this audiobook used or reproduced in any manner for the purpose of training, artificial intelligence intelligence systems. All rights reserved

I’m still trying to write my review of Shosha and was reading a post from an old school friend when I rabbit-hold my way to a Yiddish music group in my home town of Melbourne - “The Bashevis Singers”.

From their website - They sing songs of hope and of fear, songs like prayers and songs like arguments with God. Eternal songs. In Yiddish, which the Nobel prize winning Yiddish writer Isaac Bashevis Singer described as the language of a frightened and hopeful humanity.

>32 kjuliff: How fun! I assume there are YouTube videos to watch.

>34 rocketjk: Yes, you can listen to a YouTube sample here - Song to Infinity (The poems of Hillel Zeitlin).

And From the Ruins that has an introduction from some of the band members.

They also have a website - https://thebashevissingers.com/

>35 kjuliff: Thanks!

I’m starting my Booker long list reading with Endling. This is partly because it was praised by. Percival Everett, and partly because my reading choices this year have been largely set in the remnants of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

One o the narrators in the audio book, Endling - one of the longlisted 2025 Bookers is Saskia Maarleveld. Google tells me that she is “an experienced audiobook narrator and voice-over actress based in New York City. Raised in New Zealand and France”.

The reason I googled Saskia Maarleveld was that I was trying to pick up her accent. It sounds a bit American with a dash of Canadian, which it’s obviously not. Apparently she’s pretty good at mastering different accents, but I find her voice slightly annoying. I think she’s trying to sound Ukrainian and it’s not working. I’d be interested in hearing from other members listening to Endling.

ETA - just found out - she’s a Kiwi - an unpleasant accent for Australian ears. Good news for most LT readers though, who being from North America will not have my accent prejudice.

Endling from the 2025 long list is turning out to be a very strange book. Anyone else reading it right now? The structure is unusual and I’m not really keen on it..

I am not reading Ending, but am curious—what is the unusual structure?

>41 labfs39: I haven’t read anything where a book changes course by the author interrupting the story midway through (meta fiction) to watch a far-off war unfold from a privileged vantage point in an unrelated country.

It’s really four stories in one, connected in a way I’ve never seen before. This not necessarily a bad thing, but I found it awkward.. .

Of course the author is not to blame when an unexpected event such as the Russian invasion of Ukraine takes place during the time of her writing her story - a story that was not war-related) . I haven’t seen an author (invisible up to that point) step in to explain what her choices were. For example, polish off the original story and try to blend it in with the war. abruptly end the story and start a new one, and something in between. I can’t really explain anymore without giving away too much. I don’t want to spoil it for other readers.

>42 kjuliff: Regarding the changing of the story midway through a novel, you might be interested someday in reading The Counterlife by Philip Roth, in which one of the characters has (if I'm remembering correctly) a heart attack, and then a chapter or two later the author steps in and decides to change things around and instead give the heart attack to a different character. That's a little bit of a spoiler, but not much of one. It's the fourth of Roth's "Nathan Zuckerman" novels.

>33 kjuliff: Just read your review of The Names and I'm glad we thought the same thing. As soon as I got into the second section, I was annoyed that this wasn't about how a name can shape a person's life, it's about how a choice (in this case just happening to revolve around a name) can lead to 3 different outcomes. So I was annoyed the whole time I was reading. And like you, I find it hard to read about domestic abuse. Not the book for me.

>44 japaul22: i’m so glad to read that you were of the same mind as I was whenn reading The Names. I too was annoyed and felt cheated. I was waiting to hear your take on the book. It’s just about three siblings reacting differently. Thanks for your feedback.

>45 kjuliff: I was relieved to see you'd thought the same thing about the names - I kept wondering if I was missing something!

>43 rocketjk: Thanks Jerry. I haven’t read The Counterlife. I’m inspired. In your - Roth case it sounds more interesting. With Endling I think the change was forced on the writer, and instead of choosing to make two separate books she stuck two stories together. I think she didn’t expect the full-on Russian invasion of the Ukraine, and decided to modify the whole book. Not a change in genre or style , but just one of the possible solutions due to external circumstances. Quirky but not clever.

I’ve had to put aside Endling - one of this year’s Booker longlist nominations, for personal and friendship reasons. And no it is not because Ms Reva thinks Australia’s beloved, threatened-with-extinction, koala is a bear. Strange indeed as part of the tome is about endangered species. It’s for personal and friendship reasons.

So I am embarking upon Misinterpretation another of the Booker Longlist.

>49 kjuliff: Wonderful review, Kate. The art was indeed a huge part of the book. The High Museum in Atlanta has a stellar collection of folk and self-taught art and I kept picturing the work of Bill Traylor and Howard Finster as I read.

>49 kjuliff: Great review of Two-Step Devil, Kate. I looked at the boowhich ik's home page on LibraryThing, and as I suspected it's set on Lookout Mountain, a well known portion of NE Alabama and NW Georgia that is visible from many miles away. I'll add this to my library wish list.

>50 RidgewayGirl: I would love to see such artwork Kay. Good that it’s recognized.

>51 kidzdoc: Thanks for the feedback Darryl . Yes, it is set on Lookout Mountain. I didn’t mention it in my review because I didn’t know it was a real place. I haven’t seen much of that part of that world unfortunately. I did have a long weekend break in an ecolodge in the Blue Ridge Mountains, but that’s about it.

>52 kjuliff: Lookout Mountain is a popular vacation spot for people in the Deep South, due to its hiking trails, and spots for fishing and kayaking. Chattanooga, which is nearby, is also a major tourist attraction. I haven't been there, but I did see it a few years ago when I drove from Atlanta back to Philadelphia; it's to the northwest of Atlanta, but the route my phone's GPS chose took me to the north and west rather than the north and east, and Lookout Mountain was plainly visible in the distance before I turned east toward Knoxville.

I should be finishing The Housekeeper and the Professor by the weekend, Kate. I am surprised at how much I like it. The math is fine or was at least until "natural numbers" and logarithms put in an appearance. These concepts are really way beyond my feeble brain. But otherwise, it's been quite enjoyable.

>54 Fourpawz2: Glad you enjoyed The Housekeeper and the Professor. I like gentle contemplative books like this. Well-executed, gentle on the mind, without pretense or attempt to do something structurally different.

This is not a review of Endling, as I have only read part one, but I thought it was important for me to make some of my thoughts known.

But first a quote not from Riva but from Donald Trump. “There is no drought in California -… they can send it out to sea to protect a certain kind of three-inch fish.” Personally I stay far away from such comments.

Part one of Endling its about a one-woman expedition in the Ukraine to save the last of a snail species. Hence the title. Yiva has no formal funding for the trip and so pretends she’s part of a sex trafficking outfit that is posing as a mail-order bride event.

Although not openly trivializing the important issues of the climate crisis and sex trafficking, the trivializing is ingrained. The name of the snail species is not given, though it does have a pet name, Lefty. Yeah. Freudian slip? Perhaps. Riva does go to some trouble to explain the name.

The sex exploitation event attracts protesters. The protesters are given a name and it’s real. FEMEN. It was active in the second decade of this century. The group organized demonstrations in a number of capital cities in Europe and the US. They have not been active since the war.

I didn’t find either the description of the nearly extinct snail, or of the women with their interpreters trying to attract American men interesting. I take the issues of the climate-crisis and sex trafficking seriously. Part one didn’t come across as satire, fun or statement. Obviously, we had no ending because part two goes off on an entirely different path. Endling indeed!

I don’t think I’ll be reading the rest of Endling. I certainly won’t be reviewing it because I’m too close to its content. I have close personal connections with the Ukraine from WWII survivors to close friends.

Probably of small concern to most readers, but Australia doesn’t have bears. Reva hasn’t done her research. Another slip? But her error is pertinent when talking about an animal predicted to be extinct within 15 years. It was important to me because it illustrates how many Americans are ignorant of other countries. The koala is native to Australia, an important national emblem, a tourist attraction, and expected to be extinct by 2050. For a book that uses the climate crisis and species extinction for its plot, I would expect better.

>56 kjuliff: Interesting comments on Endling, Kate. Not a book I'm likely to pick up, but I was curious because of the Booker hype.

>57 labfs39: I still pondering whether I bother with part two of Endling. I’m curious about the hype. Why? I’ll have to read some reviews.

Finished Audition which I will review later. I listened to it in audio and I think this spoiled the book for me. I kept getting annoyed by the narrator ‘s pronunciation of Xavier as “Exavier”. But perhaps that’s the way it’s pronounced in America. It was a background irritation.

I’’ve just listened to the short story version of Flashlight read by its writer Susan Choi . If you have Audible, you should be able to read it free on The Writer’s Choice.

I read it even though I intend to read the book. The NYPL wait time is long and I don’t have the credits to buy it. In any case, I’m busy reading. Flesh - the opposite side of the world and about the opposite gender. Two very young people so far apart and so sensitively described.

Both narrators are excellent. I have a feeling I’ve turned the corner in my Booker reading this year.

>60 kjuliff: "The audio-reader keeps pronouncing as ZAY-vee-er, which I found annoying."

I think that's the only way I've ever heard "Xavier' pronounced. How do you pronounce it?

>61 KeithChaffee: Sory that was my typo. That is how I pronounce it - ZAY-vee-er In Audition audio the reader (Traci Kato-Kiriyama ) pronounces it as ex-ZAY-vee-er. That’s what I found odd. I’ve corrected my review . Thanks for pointing it out.

>61 KeithChaffee: Here we pronounce it Havier, tho Ive heard both

>63 cindydavid4: “Havier” is Javier in Spanish (Basque) where it is spelt with a J that is pronounced like H in English. As in Jose.

Xavier’s correct pronunciation is ZAY-vee-er in US and UK English.

Different regions pronounce the word differently. I found the pronunciation in Audition to be annoying, given that the prize is for books written English. It grated on me. Of course this is only relevant when the book is read in audio..

I was disappointed to finish reading Flesh which are many enjoyed. I’m so pleased to have been introduced to David Szalay buy the Booker long list. So far I’ve enjoyed all of the longest books that are available in audio and you enjoyed all of them except for.Endling.

And I thought there were no more Booker books for me, Then NLS Talking Books Library just released Flashlight (ManMilan Audio); I can now take it off, hold and read it straight away.

I feel it’s going to be sort of an opposite to Flesh. Certainly in terms of the main characters .

>65 kjuliff: so nice to see from you

>66 kjuliff: yes, very much an opposite in style.

>62 kjuliff: "In Audition audio the reader (Traci Kato-Kiriyama ) pronounces it as ex-ZAY-vee-er."

Wouldn't ex-ZAY-vee-er be somebody whose name used to be ZAY-vee-er?

>68 rocketjk: Yes. But then the writer, Katie Kitamura would have written it as Exavier or Ex-Xavier. I think the audio narrator just pronounces it that way for reasons I’m unaware of. Maybe that’s how they say it in LA. Exavier is a ame in the US but the person in the book is Xavier. In any case, I found it annoying.

>68 rocketjk: that’s funny!

>68 rocketjk: Good one!

I find this extended discussion of pronunciation a diversion from the real issue. Is Audition a terrific read, or not?

>72 JoeB1934: Opinions vary. It’s not easy to say whether it’s a good read or not, because it’s not a straightforward novel written in a conventional style. If I had to put on a bet , I’d say that you wouldn’t like it Joe. I’ve reviewed it so you can have a look at what I thought, and I think Kay and other LT members have reviewed it as well.

You can see the reviews here.
Note it’s Audition by Katie Kitamura. Your tag referenced a book of the same name, but by Ryû Murakami.

@Trifolia also has a discussion of Audition on CR - Trifolia turns the page in 2025.

>71 SassyLassy: >68 rocketjk: I suppose the interest I had in the pronunciation of Xavier was that in Australia it’s considered a bit of a joke to pronounce it starting with EX. There used to be a cringeworthy comedy called Kath and Kim on Australian TV that made a joke about working class people misspelling names.

See here and you’ll know what I mean. So it influenced my reading of the book even though the main character obviously wasn’t anything like the people in the group I just referred to..

>73 kjuliff: I have looked at the reviews of Audition and agree with your assessment of my interest in the book. I have been wondering about the book because I read her previous book Intimacies and wasn't a fan. Have dropped it for me.

The discussion of name pronunciation did make me laugh a little. I have an acquaintance through friends who pronounces his name Ex-Zay-Vee-er and I'm not telling him that's not how it's pronounced. Especially in countries with people from a variety of cultures and countries, pronunciations of names are going to have wide variation.

>76 RidgewayGirl: It’s true that the same name can be pronounced differently in different places and ethnicities. But US and UK English has a standard way of pronouncing Xavier.

I am going to contact the narrator and ask her why she pronounced the name incorrectly in the book. Part of.Audition concerns the identity of Xavier, but had it been a purpose thing. Katie Kitamura would have written it as “Exavier” , which is an actual name in the US in Australia.

The other explanation is that the book was read by AI. It’s a dead giveaway when a word is consistently pronounced incorrectly in spoken narrative, that it is AI generated. Of course I don’t really believe that’s so in this case. But as AI takes over, we have to be attuned to be able to detect it.

I have found the answer to the mispronunciation of Xavier in the audio version of Audition. So all those people who were bored with this topic will be able to heave a sigh of relief.

Traci Kato-Kiriyama, the narrator of Audition is Japanese.
Japanese doesn’t have the “Z” sound at the start of a word or the “X” as in “Xavier,” so foreign words often get an extra vowel or consonant to fit Japanese phonetics.
“X” often becomes “エクス” (ekusu), which sounds like “EX.”.

Thank you to ChatGPT for helping me with this conundrum.

>77 kjuliff: The problem of hidden AI narrators is a real one. A friend discovered that the name "Eloise Fairfax" hides an AI voice. In the case of Audition, the narrator, Traci Kato-Kiriyama, is a real person. It's frustrating to have to go look up a narrator to be sure when all I want to do is listen to a nice book. And that a human name is not evidence enough is appalling.

>78 kjuliff: how strange

>80 dchaikin: How so Dan? Although babies are born with the ability of pronouncing every sound in the world, as they grow up they lose some sounds because they never use them.

Or do you find it strange that a Japanese speaker would be chosen to read Audition, a book where a central character is called Xavier?

>81 kjuliff: strange in an interesting way. Strange that the Japanese wouldn’t pronounce Xavier correctly. Strange that a narrator reading in English would hold to a Japanese pronunciation.

>82 dchaikin: I don’t agree
Strange that the Japanese wouldn’t pronounce Xavier correctly

It is not wouldn’t it is couldn’t.
There are many languages where non-native speakers have trouble pronouncing particular phonemes or letters. For example, I have a problem correctly pronouncing Argentina, and a number other a Spanish words where the t is more of a th. I’m sure there are many Japanese words that English speakers would find difficult to pronounce.

Similarly speakers of Mandarin have a problem with “r” and “l” restrictions. The "l" sound in Mandarin can only appear at the beginning of a syllable, while the "r" sound occurs at the end.

Strange that a narrator reading in English would hold to a Japanese pronunciation..
I do find this strange, but not because the Japanese narrator is, as you put it,”holding” to a Japanese pronunciation. She probably can’t say it any other way. I find it strange that she was chosen as a narrator. She’s lost the ability to say x or y at the beginning of a sentence.

>77 kjuliff: US and UK English has a standard way of pronouncing Xavier.

Where does this US standard for pronunciation come from? Although there is a something called a "US Standard English", there does not seem to be an official organisation dictating from above as there is with "Received English" in the UK. That seems to leave it more open.

>77 kjuliff: "I am going to contact the narrator and ask her why she pronounced the name incorrectly in the book."

Before I read the rest of the posts on this subject, I was going to guess it had to do with the direction. There are people who act as directors for audio books. I remember reading an interview with Patrick Stewart a few years ago. He was talking about the book narration he'd done, and said of one particular book (I don't remember which one, I'm afraid) that during the project he'd received what he considered to be some of the most precise direction of his career. So no book narrator's pronunciation choice would be made in a vacuum. There would be someone on hand to ask/tell them to read the word differently if a pronunciation was considered to be in error in some way. So in that respect, I, too, consider it odd that a narrator would be chosen who couldn't pronounce a particular name in what the audience would consider a "correct" fashion. Perhaps the book's author was brought in on the decision.

>83 kjuliff: i get it. It can be strange and ok to me at the same time. It is what it is.

>86 rocketjk: yup yup. 🙂

>84 kjuliff: love your review. It’s such a powerful book. But reader must engage! I enjoyed all your thoughts.

>87 dchaikin: But it is what it is, Dan? It’s like when you thought it’s OK for an ecologist interested in the extinction of species to think the koala is a bear? It isn’t. (Endling)

Audition was presumably written for an English speaking audience. If Kitamura wanted to make a point about English speakers mis-pronouncing Xavier, I’m sure she would’ve made it clear in the printed book form.

Audio readers have the right to expect that the words they hear are the same words as sighted people see in print.

>88 dchaikin: Thanks for the feedback on my review. of Flesh. I was engaged from the first page. I’m hoping it makes the shortlist.

I’m currently reading Flashlight. From reading the short story, I had no idea that an important part of the book would be about the Korean war post World War II. We are still paying for the carving up of countries by the WWII allies. I knew this, but I had not related it to the countries of North and South Korea. I had no idea of the problem that many Koreans faced post-World War II in deciding their fate.

>89 kjuliff: oh dear. I must defer to you, my Australian buddy, on Koala’s.

And oddity about the Kitamura narrator is Kitamura is 100% American. She’s only Japanese by descent. She would say it as every English speaker does…

>85 SassyLassy: i know it is in the spanish community herein the sw and I hear it frequntly around about,

>92 dchaikin: Yes,you are correct. I have no idea now as to why Traci Kato-Kiriyama strayed from the book to pronounce it à la Japanese.

>93 cindydavid4: Cindy, Spanish pronounce Xavier as Havier and spell it Javier. But it’s irrelevant as the book is written in English and has nothing to do with Spanish people.

The point I’m making isn’t that people have to spell it a certain way. It is that the Katie Kitamura spells it in the UK/US way, as Xavier.

In Australia, some people who live in impoverished areas misspell common names on purpose. I don’t know why they do this but they do. I have seen the name spelled Exavier. Click HERE.

I think this topic has had its day. As have koalas unfortunately.

I am trying to finish Flashlight. It’s heavy going. It’s another of the Booker longlist books that change direction midway through. But unlike Endling and Audition it does so badly. Its change is not a literary experiment as in Audition, or due to a change in unexpected external circumstances as in Endling. It’s like Choi took a successful short story “Flashlight” and rather than expand on it by making it deeper, she just added a new story and clumsily weaved it in to produce the novel of the same name. I would be most surprised if it made the shortlist.

Nice review of Flesh, Kate. As usual I avoided all discussions and reviews until I had a chance to read, reflect, and write my review of it, to avoid influential comments that would affect my thoughts and opinions.

Flesh sounds great - I took a book bullet on the back of your review.

My hopes for the Booker shortlist in order
1 Seascraper
2 Flesh
3 Audition
Note that I have only been able to read audiobooks, so I only have seven from the full longlist to choose from. I couldn’t find a fourth - so the others tied.

Do you usually try to read the longlist before the announcement, or is this new for you?

>98 kjuliff: my list too. Although Audition is my number 1.

I usually try to read some of the long list, but this year I read all of the longest books available in audio. The reason being that I’m having trouble navigating the screen due to vision loss..

So it’s very hard for me to use the screen to find books that I want to read and that are available in audio. It’s easier just to go through the Booker prize list as I know I will usually like the books on it. Then I just have to check commercial audio sources to see if the book is available on audio, and then go to my libraries and see if it’s there.

My increased loss of vision (due to surgery in August) is the reason that I haven’t been writing reviews.Though I might review Hunchback later this week.

that's hard. Take care Kate!

noticed you not being around , thinking of you. glad you are keeping in touch. review what you want that is easiest for you. we will understand

Or don't review at all. :-) We just love hearing from you.

I miss your reviews, Kate, but totally understand. It's nice to know you're still here and enjoying CR, even if you're not able to post as much.

Checking in quickly. I am so far behind on LT, but wanted to pop in and say hello. I hope your good eye is recovering from your surgery. >105 AlisonY: echoing Alison that it's nice to hear from you in any capacity.

>106 labfs39: Me Too!

>104 labfs39:, >105 AlisonY: >106 labfs39:, >107 JoeB1934:
Thank you all for your concern. Unfortunately, my good eye has been affected by recent Mohs surgery in that the lower eyelid has been pulled away from the eye. The surgeon will try steroid injections for six months and after that, I’ll need another surgery if it doesn’t work.

It is now very difficult for me to look at a screen because my eye tears up and I cannot stand light because of the surgery pulling the eyelid down. I would like to see an ophthalmologist and of course I do have one for my macular dystrophy. But I need to see one of the ophthalmologist who deal withthe front of the eye. The retina guy does not treat front of the eye problems. Its taking me six months to get an appointment for a front of the eye doctor. Even one I’ve seen previously and regularly in the past. I’m pretty disappointed in Mount Sinai Hopital because most of my doctors, including the surgeon are there, and I would’ve thought an ophthalmologist would see me considering the fact that my quality of life is so reduced. I’ve checked with a FB group for Mohs surgery patients, and there are things to be done for this problem with tearing and prompt attention is advised in order that no damage is done to the cornea. I suppose six months is considered prompt in the healthcare system in New York.

I am fearful that damage has been done to the front of the eye from a scratch all the 24 hour irritation. I feel like putting Mount Sinai on notice, but I won’t because there are a few doctors there that I like. Certainly I can’t recommend their ophthalmology department.

I can still read, but it’s hard to find books that I really like and I’m following those people whose taste in books are similar to mine - they know who they are. Thanks for all those people who have been kind to me. I am so dissolution with the American health system. I wish at times I had never come to this country. Of course when I came, Bill Clinton was in office and life was good

I'm so sorry you are having such post-operative problems. That's horrible that you can't get in any sooner than 6 months! I would call every day asking if there have been cancellations. Good luck

>109 labfs39: - I asked to put be put on the waitlist. I’ve done this before. Nothing happens.. i’m really quite shocked at hospital would make you wait six months just to see the specialist when it’s on record that you are legally blind and that your “good eye” is starting to fail.

I’m really really worried about losing this sight in my only seeing eye. So now this thread is unlikely to continue until I can see an ophthalmologist in March 2026.

So I doubt I’ll be able to post much till then.

>102 dchaikin: what is really sad is that it’s probably fixable. It’s just a matter of seeing an ophthalmologist. Right now I have to wait till March, which is a long time to have eye pain and be unable to see. Healthcare in New York is not what it used to be.

Goodness, that’s a long time. Wish you well, Kate

>112 dchaikin: it’s a ridiculous time Dan. It’s a disgrace on the health system in New York. A friend is looking around to find an ophthalmologist who will see me earlier. I’m quite surprised that so many Americans seem to take the poor health system here as a given.. Their level of acceptance never ceases to amaze.

>105 AlisonY: Thanks Alison. I can only manage a thread or two a day now as my sight gets worse daily. I’m worried as to the cause and disturbed I have to wait till March to be seen by an opthamologist.

Someone in my macular dystrophy group suggested I try a different state, but I don’t know if my insurance will cover.

>110 kjuliff: Sorry to hear about this, and I hope you're able to see a doctor as soon as possible. Thinking of you.

>115 rasdhar: Thanks Rasdhar, I appreciate your comment.
Meanwhile I’m trying to contribute and read one thread a day to try to keep up. I’m feeling rather isolated with this eye problem.
I am now listening to Highway Thirteen by Australian writer Fiona McFarlane.

I am at a loss as to what to do. Here is what I just messaged to a doctor at name-of-hospital-reducted who is meant to be on my care team.

“I put myself down for an earlier appointment with Dr name-reduced, ophthalmology. Today 10/6 I got a message that an earlier appointment was availablr in November. It was sent at 3:25 pm.
The offer expired at the same day - 10/ 6 at 12:05pm.
How can I meet the deadline if the message is sent after the deadline?”

I am so frustrated and depressed and it’s just nothing I can do. I know this has nothing to do with books, but I am at my wit’s end. Am I going crazy? Am I miss-reading the dates and times? I’m starting to doubt my sanity..

Ah Kate, I'm so sorry you're dealing with this—both the eye issue itself and the truly broken medical system. I have some choice words for Mt. Sinai myself, but that doesn't help things at all, so I'll just put that energy into wishing you some prompt attention and better care.

How frustrating! Perhaps you need to be a really squeaky wheel?

>119 labfs39: Thanks Lisa. I usually react to this sort of thing like a squeaky wheel. But the whole thing is wearing me down. I’m turning into a person he who just lies around feeling terrible.. It’s done something to me. I feel hopeless, powerless and I’ve lost the fighting spirit I had left.

>118 lisapeet:. Thank you Lisa. Maybe Mount Sinai it’s not the hospital it once was. It’s too late in the day to change hospitals now as I have many chronic conditions and there is one specialist there who is excellent. I really feel like talking to a manager there. But I am too down to have a decent conversation and would come across as a whiny old woman..

>120 kjuliff: I don't blame you for being discouraged. When I take my father to medical appointments, the doctors tend to either direct their conversation to me or speak to him loudly and like they were speaking to a child. It's maddening how badly many medical professionals interact with older patients.

>121 RidgewayGirl: thanks Kay. I really don’t think the medical profession in New York City could care less about patients. I think with few exceptions it’s all about money. I am in so much agony with this eye I fel Iike screaming. I wish I never had the operation to remove the cancer because at least I would’ve had a few good years left. Now my life is nothing but a misery in the dark..

i think a bunch of us should go up there and give them a piece of our minds You need to be treated with dignity and care but would be too mush for you but it might be fun thinking about it Anyway post what you want even it its not about books. you matter. im so sorry this is happening to you do your hospital have a social worker who might advicate for you . there has to be someone who can help you ......

Every hospital has patient advocates. You need one now! And if that doesn't get some results try the New York Department of Health. You can do this!

>123 cindydavid4: Thanks Cindy. I love your approach to life’s problems. You are such a compassionate person.

>140 kjuliff: You are correct. I will try to get the energy to do these things. I would’ve done these 10 years ago, but I’ve had the stuffing knocked out of me and right now I am weak in body and spirit. But I’ll pull myself together and do just that..

If you haven't already done so I would highly suggest sending paper letters to the CEO, CFO, Physician in Chief and the Chair of the Department of Ophthalmology of the Mount Sinai Health Care system, along with another to the Patient Liaison Department there. I would include detailed information about the many positive experiences you have had there, the difficulty you've faced in getting a prompt appointment with a cornea specialist, the pain and discomfort you're currently experiencing, and your fear that further delays may lead to permanent eye damage.

At the same time I think it would be reasonable to explore options with other ophthalmologists in Manhattan.

When I was working several families sent letters as the ones I described above on my behalf. The system's CEO sought me out and thanked me on at least two occasions, and our Physician in Chief, who I knew well from residency when I rotated through our system's Pediatric Intensive Care Units, gave me kudos far more often, as those seemingly innocuous letters carry a tremendous amount of weight. On the other hand my understanding is that this works both ways, as physicians who regularly receive negative letters can be warned, put on probation, or even fired unless they change their bad behaviors.

ETA: I would also wonder if the main problem with getting an appointment is with the Ophthalmology scheduling department and not with the ophthalmologists themselves.

>126 kidzdoc: thanks Darryl for your suggestions, which I will take up. And yes I agree with you that the problem with getting the ophthalmologist appointment is to do with the ophthalmologistscheduling department at Mount Sinai. The doctors wouldn’t even know about it.

I do feel, however, that my primary care doctor should be helping me with this. She does absolutely nothing. I was talking about this problem with a friend the other day and we were remarking on the fact that primary care doctors the patient. It must be four years since a primary care doctors actually touched me. Even when I’ve complained of stomach aches or pains in different parts of the body. They just ask me to point.

I have an excellent pulmonologist at Mount Sinai and often he asks how I am and we have a chat and he’ll examine me if I have a pain anywhere and he’ll ask about all aspects of my health. But as for the rest there, I’m unimpressed. Last year he even ordered a general blood test for me when he noticed that I hadn’t had one for four years. I have annual check ups, but they’re not really worth it any more.

Even the surgeon that did the surgery explained nothing about it to me. I used ChatGPT to find out why he was waiting months to do the lymph node scan. There IS a reason, I asked chatGPT, but when I asked him, he just said “oh well that’s what we do.”. I’ve given up on the health system here.

I have the following books ready to read, but none are drawing me in. I really need to get back into reading. If anyone has any ideas on any of these books can you let me know. I’ve tried all of them, but just can’t seem to engage..
The Bellwether Revivals
The Coast Road
Perfection
What We Can Know
The Nine Tailors
The Girls of Slender Means
The Outcast
Highway Thirteen: Stories
The Slowworm
Venetian Vesper
All are touchstoned for author.

Well I re-started Venetian Vesper as I normally like Banvile’s novels. I was worried at first that it might be another Benjamin Black but it’s the real McCoy. Lots of imagery and internal meanderings. I have a feeling that it gets better. As the Beatles sang, “it can’t get no worse”.

>128 kjuliff: The only one I've read on your list is The Nine Tailors, which I quite enjoyed, but it was a very long time ago. I remember a lot of technical details about how church bells work.

I haven't read Venetian Vesper yet, but it is high on my TBR because I love John Banville books. According to FICTIONDB, which I am using to focus my TBR, the book Genre is:
General Fiction, Suspense, Historical, Mystery, Science Fiction, Thriller, Crime, Family / Siblings. They give the book 4.5 stars

That mix is aligned with my preferences.

I have been following along with your health care difficulties and am horrified with their behavior in your dealings. My daughter Shelley just had Mohs surgery yesterday high on her cheek below the eye and that physician is totally involved in her follow-up. Cynthia had 3 Mohs surgery, one near her eye and all turned out fantastically well.

It is possible that Denver health care is uniquely excellent, but you shouldn't have behavior like you have encountered. Please get a friend to accomplish what others on this thread have suggested to you.

>130 rasdhar: I read a fair bit of The Nine Tailors and I actually enjoyed the first part about the bells and the bell ringers. I didn’t know much about the functions of the bells - how they were used to communicate to the surrounding areas before technology gave the ability to let people know local news. “Tailors - Tellers - Telling the news”. Now I understand what Big Ben is actually saying during the ringing in of the new year. I had never deciphered the bells, or even thought of doing so.

But after the first chapters I lost interest and probably will not go back to that book again. I think it’s a fairly standard whodunit. But it was worth reading about the bells.

I think it’s a fairly standard whodunit.

it is, but the inclusion of Lord Peter whimsey is worth the trip! I do agree about the bells;fascinating stuff

Hi Kate! I’m dipping my toe back in here.

>134 dianeham: nice to hear from you!

>134 dianeham: so good to hear from you here, Diane. I’ve really missed your posts.

I’m just getting into banvile’s Venetian Vespers. It was a slow start but I persevered, and anm now really enjoying it. He’s a great writer and I was a bit worried. I was going to be disappointed. It has all the feeling that is common in so many art forms about the city of Venice I’ll always remember the film, Don’t Look Now, and all the books, such as Death in Venice. Venice has a haunting quality, unlike other Italian cities. Great background for Banvile’s new book.

On the medical front, I saw my old dentist yesterday and when I say old, I mean really old. I’ve been seeing him for over a decade maybe two and I showed him photos of my Mohs surgery complete with skin graft. It’s huge and covers a large section of my face. With his usual acerbic wit he responded with “Ha that’s nothing. I have skin cancers all the time and I don’t go in for that Mohs stuff. Takes too long. I just say chop it off.” Oh Dr S I replied, but it covered a quarter of my face and is right under my eye. To which he replied. “You’re old, what do you expect? All sorts of things fall off and need fixing. You’re lucky you’ve got any teeth.”

He’s a charming old man, and I love his New York humor. But I started to worry when he tapped his head and said “Don’t tell me too many things at once. I can only think of one thing at a time, one thing remember one thing”.

It wasn't until I got home and the aesthetic had worn off that I noticed he put my implant crown in backwards.

Oh my. You are not having the best of luck these days.

>138 labfs39: Lost my reply while fixing typos. It was about my dentist and how I didn’t have the heart to tell him when I found out that he put the crown in backwards. I’m quite fond of the old man. But clearly he is not the same as the dentist I saw about 15 years ago. I’m sticking with him because, well because….

I’m about to come to the end of Venetian. Vespers and no, it will be difficult choosing my next book because it is Banville at his best. The picture he builds of late 19th century Venice is a visual painting. It stays with the reader, even when the book is put down.

>141 kjuliff: I love when a book does that. And I'm sorry about your crown, but I love that you're still loyal to him.

>142 RidgewayGirl: I just this minute finished Venice Vespers and was thinking that you’d like it. It’s a great read and I wanted to save it for a bit longer, but I just couldn’t stop till I finished.

>143 kjuliff: On that recommendation, I've just placed a hold on my library's copy.

>144 RidgewayGirl: it’s got a bit of a slow start where it describes Venice, but hang in there because it doesn’t stay with all that descriptive stuff, although the descriptions are beautiful. Well, I shouldn’t say beautiful because he doesn’t like Venice, or perhaps it’s that he doesn’t like the Venice of the late 19th-century, and he’s quite nasty about the place.

But after a capital of chapters it becomes a page-turner.

You had me at Venice... The book I just finished started on the Venetian island of Torcello, and I'm still in a Venetian literary mood.

>146 AlisonY: you will live in Venice while you read this book. His words … well I have no words.

Outside the sunlight, dazzled my eyes again. It was the kind of day chill blue and bright, but if rapped upon with a knuckle would give back a glassy chime.

I have ten minutes to go of Banville’s Shroud and am at thr denouement. It’s 12:50 AM. I can’t afford to find out just before I go to sleep. So with all the willpower I can rake up, I’m waiting till I wake in the morning to savor the finale of this little masterpiece.

>148 kjuliff: hugs I admire you fortitude

>149 cindydavid4: thanks Cindy. But really I’m only strong with some things.

It was a surprising ending to the book and I recommend both Shroud and Banville’s latest, Venetian Vespers. Although published 13 years apart (Shroud was on the Booker Long list in 2002), there’s a weird similarity between the two books.

Both are set in Italy - Venetian Vespers obviously in Venice, and Shroud also obviously in Turin. Both center around a conflicted man with strange and similar sexual desires. what is forced to wonder where Banville is getting his material ;)

I have yet to read Banville, your comments make me think I need to move him up the TBR queue.

>151 labfs39: I think you’d really enjoy his books. The Sea this is most well known, but I really liked Venetian Vespers. I have enjoyed all of his Banville books, but I think the Venice one is the most readable in terms of hooking the reader in. He’s a marvelous writer, and the only thing to be aware of is to stay away from his Benjamin Black novels. These are mostly under his Benjamin Black pen name, but a couple aren’t - I think April in Spain smacks a Benjamin Black, though it’s written under his real name.

Just a note to say that I’m still here. Since my Mohs surgery, I’ve been a bit out of sorts because the surgery was just under my bottom eyelashes of my left eye and there’s been some complications.

But I’ve read a few books. What stands out is John Banville’s Venetian Vespers which I highly recommend. It is set in the creepy Venice of the vibe of the film Don`t Look Now. A haunting rather than beautiful place, expertly described by one of my favorite writers.

Also Thirteen Ways of Looking.

I’ve just started Giovanni‘s Room which I refused to read because my father insisted I read it when I was a teenager.

I just finished The Orphan Masters’s Son breaking my rule of not reading books with that sort of title - the sewing mistress‘s daughter, the diamond dealer’s mother, The tarot reader’s husband... The Orphan Master’s Son was a rather superficial look at North Korea with the goodies and the baddies being so stereotypical to make it appear American rather than North Korean propaganda.

I see the Mohs surgeon on Friday and I hope he can put my fears at rest. I’ve been unable to read because of this scar tissue close to my eye. So although I can listen to audiobooks, I haven’t been able to research and plan my meeting. I have been able to follow a few threats on LT that have been helpful.

Thanks to those people who have stayed in touch and those members who have dropped LT for a while for health or personal reasons.

>153 kjuliff: Hi Kate, I hope you're recovering well and that the meeting with the surgeon is productive. I am thinking of you and wishing you well.

>153 kjuliff: I'm glad you finally have an appointment, Kate. Good luck

>153 kjuliff: Hope you enjoy Giovanni's Room

>156 baswood: I already am. I just finished part one. I can tell it’s a book I’ll love.

After reading @Basswood ‘s review review of The True History of the Kelly Gang I just have to read it.

It’s a great myth/story and I love Sidney Nolan’s paintings association with it. This painting in particular has become an iconic tribute to the Australian bushranger.



Now I’m beginning to feel homesick.

Best of luck for your appointment, Kate. I hope you get some positive news.

Fingers crossed for your appointment on Friday!

I hope your appointment goes well and the doctor really listens to you. I've just spent too long looking at some of Sidney Nolan's paintings of Ned Kelly. And for what it's worth, I read The True History of the Kelly Gang years ago and really liked it, although it was before 2008, the year I joined LibraryThing.

>161 RidgewayGirl: Thank you Kay for remembering about my appointment. I’m actually a little worried because it looks a little bit like it might have come back. And the eye issue is still a problem.

I really should read The True History of the Kelly Gang. I’ve seen the original armor he wore in the Old Melbourne Jail. I love the way Sidney Nolan has represented it.
Here is an AI generated picture of my daughter as Ned Kelly that did I did earlier this year.

>162 kjuliff: i haven’t about the Kelly Gang, but your picture is hysterical

Early in my reading life I ran across The True History of the Kelly Gang and My life as a Fake, both by Peter Carey. I was very excited by both books and have read several other Peter Carey books. I haven't been as impressed by his later work. My life as a Fake has had an enormous impact on the books I have read since that time.

I think @dchaikin has a review on that book.

>163 dchaikin: my daughter is a free spirit and she really does go horse riding around in the Kelly District in Australia. She lives near Clunes where they shot the movie of Peter Carey’s book. I think it did a good job of the mask on her head. Did you see that Sidney Nolan painting of Ned Kelly >158 kjuliff: ?

>164 JoeB1934: @Baswood recently did a really good review of the Kelly book.

>165 kjuliff: I saw the painting and your AI picture, but a day apart. I hadn’t associated them. That makes it a whole more entertaining!

>164 JoeB1934: My Life as a Fake is still my only Carey, but I really enjoyed the book.

>166 dchaikin: Ah, associations - it was only today, that I realized that one of my favorite books The Reluctant Fundamentalist was made into a film directed by Mira Nair, Mamdani’s mother. I haven’t seen the film, but I will now. Mira Nair is one of a very small group of women making movies. I was prompted by an Australian friend who is also a female film director.

Back to the Ned Kelly photo I generated with ChatGPT. A while back I put in on my Facebook page and American friends asked me why my daughter was wearing a bucket on her head, while Australian friends instantly knew it was a Ned Kelly thing.

>158 kjuliff: Even though I had some notes on it, The True History of the Kelly Gang is an absolutely gripping read. I could not put it down! It really is an adventure. You linked the paintings on my thread as well and I really like them. I hope you enjoy it.

I hope the eye treatment is going well.

>155 labfs39: >154 rasdhar: the news from the dermatologist visit was both good and bad. I had injections into the scars. The skars underneath epidermis are pushing out. I hope the silicon injections will help.

The dermatologist is going to call the ophthalmologist to explain his concerns about my eye. The conjunctiva is inflamed, and he doesn’t think it’s due to the surgery, but I do - my bottom eyelid is pulled down exposing the conjunctiva, and this is the cause of me having a problem with light sensitivity, and tearing.

Thanks to Lisa - @labfs39 I really enjoyed Nothing to Envy. Demick gives a realistic and credible view of life in North Korea. I went away from The Orphan Master’s Son feeling I gained little in understanding life in North Korea in the 1990s and the current century to date. But Lisa put me onto Demick’s journalistic approach and now I’m interested in finding out even more. Thanks Lisa. If you have any more suggestions, please let me know.. I’m really interested in this country.

I’m picking up on the latest McEwan book - What. We can Know . I put it aside a few months ago as I was having trouble concentrating. After a few chapters in, I think I’m going to like it. I’ve been disappointed in his books in the last 10 years, but I think this one shows him as his best.

>170 kjuliff: I've read a few memoirs by North Korean defectors, and of them I think Escape from Camp 14 and A River in Darkness are the best. I would read both with a grain of salt, however. Demick's book is the least biased IMO.

Demick has written a couple of other books that I am eager to read, Eat the Buddha about Tibet and her most recent, Daughters of the Bamboo Grove about a pair of Chinese twins who were separated. I did read Besieged : Life Under Fire on a Sarajevo Street, which was good, but didn't grip me quite as much as Nothing to Envy.

>172 labfs39: Thanks Lisa. I’m interested in Eat the Buddha, having spent a few months traveling around Nepal. I checked out the audio version, hoping it would be narrated by Karen White who narrated Nothing to Envy. I’m pretty sure I’ve listened to articles in The Atlantic narrated by her. I like the straightforward way she narrates, not not flat without unnecessary emotion.-

Most Booker prize followers know by now that David Szalay’s Flesh is this is this year’s winner.

A well deserved win and I urge anyone who hasn’t read it to add it to their library.

In reading year’s Booker long and short lists Flesh and Audition were my top choices for winning the prize. The only other shortlisted book I was able to read was Flashlight which I did not expect to win.

Flesh was the last book I was able to review before my last spell of illness. So I’m both glad that it won and glad that I managed to review it. You can read my review here.

I’ve been a fan of Ian McEwan ever since I discovered The Cement Garden (pub 1978). Recently, however, I found his books to be not up to his earlier standard. But now, toward the end of his career, he’s come back to us. With a vengeance. Bravo Mr. McEwan.

Lovely review. Ages ago i read his novel Saturday and kind of shrugged. Some good, some I didn’t like. I haven’t read another. Perhaps this should be my next one.

>175 kjuliff: I've read two books by McEwan, Atonement and Sweet Tooth, and gave both 2.5 stars. I haven't bothered with him since. I'm curious as to where you feel these two titles fall on his work spectrum.

>177 labfs39: I wasn’t impressed with Atonement. My notes at the time were, “ Not my favorite McEwan but still good. Not as much edge as his earlier novels”. And I think since then his work hasn’t been up to scratch. I can’t remember Sweet Tooth. I went back and looked at his books in chronological order. He’s been a bit hit and miss since Atonement. But I did like On Chesil Beach and Saturday which were published after Atonement. Maybe he’s an acquired taste.

I’ve never really given up on him. I picked What We Can Know after reading an interesting review in The Guardian.

>176 dchaikin: Thanks Dan.. I do think you would enjoy All That we Can Know.

>171 kjuliff: I picked this up at the lit festival, Kate, so glad to hear it's a return to form. I too think McEwan was better in his earlier days.

Enjoyed your review of What We Can Know I have enjoyed some McEwan books - Enduring Love is my favourite although I liked Chesil Beach. The new one sounds good.

>175 kjuliff: I DNF Atonement because I couldn’t stand the feeling of impending doom. But to be honest I wasn’t crazy about the writing either. He was switching viewpoints but all the characters sounded the same to me. This new one sounds interesting, and at least here the worst already happened. Maybe I should give it a try.

>180 baswood: Yes, Enduring Love was my introduction to McEwan and remains my favorite of his, and I also enjoyed On Chesil Beach. Of course, I liked Atonement quite a bit and abandoned Saturday, I think everyone will have McEwans they loved and ones they didn't like.

>180 baswood: Thanks B. I haven’t read Enduring Love since it was published years ago! I’ll have to reread it because all I do remember that I really enjoyed it.

>182 RidgewayGirl: >179 AlisonY: >180 baswood: >176 dchaikin:
I think everyone will have McEwans they loved and ones they didn't like. - Kay

I agree. McEwan’s writing is not consistent across his books. I also think he takes more care with some books rather than others. The Cockroach for example was rushed. I saw an interview with McEwan and he admitted that he completed the book in a week. He rushed it for a reason - as a satirical response to the political climate of Brexit in 2019. I didn’t find it particularly good, although I agreed with its sentiments.

But he does appear to appeal to have his followers; I’ve stuck with McEwan through all his books whether they are middling or brilliant.

McEwan obviously put a lot of time into his latest novel, What We Can Know.

There’s no doubt that there’s an edginess to McEwan. The only book I couldn’t come at was his. Lessons which I thought was a trite.

>181 FlorenceArt: “impending doom” is something I like in a novel. McEwan‘s books are full of it and so they are obviously not for you. Certainly do NOT read.The Cement Garden

>184 kjuliff: Thanks for the warning!

I remember Almería for its cakes and I wonder if it’s still known for these. Reading Hot Milk made me remember the town and so I put the energy in to pay tribute to my time there by writing this short review.

>186 kjuliff: great review. I loved Sophia. I think about her all the time. That last quote captures her charming humor. I also really enjoyed our changing perception of her mother and Gomez. And, of course, the playful absurdity.

It’s fun to revisit the book through your thoughts and personal and observations. Like the stinging - your ideas on it are new to me.

>187 dchaikin: thanks Dan. I just read your review and really enjoyed it. It added it to my appreciation of the book. You wrote This is my second terrific book by Levy. What is your first?

>188 kjuliff: My 1st by Levy is called The Man Who Saw Everything. I had to listen twice. Got two different books…

>186 kjuliff: Lovely review makes me want to read it

>175 kjuliff: Great review of What We Can Know, Kate. I'm adding this to my TBR.

>186 kjuliff: Really enjoyed your review of Hot Milk too!

>187 dchaikin: >190 baswood: Thanks for the encouraging posts. It really is a lovely book. There’s something very special about it which I can’t describe. I think a lot has to do with the main character and the dreamy feel of the northern Mediterranean coastal towns. There are plenty of books that bring those towns to life, but something about the main character Sophia grabbed me.

>189 dchaikin: Thanks. I’ve put The Man Who Saw Everything on my list. Hot Milk was my introduction to Deborah Levy.

>191 rasdhar: Thanks Rashar. I think you would like. What We Can Know. It’s a very imaginative book. I like the way McEwan deconstructed our geo-political world to a world after the rise of the oceans. I like seeing England as an archipelago and Nigeria as a dominant world power. It was also fun seeing our world, the world of now from the imagined vantage point of over 1000 years hence.

Hot Milk is such a gem. There is so much to it all I could do was to try to convey how it felt reading it.

I’ve been re-reading a few books lately - books that impressed me at the time. Today, I’m an emotional mess after reading. Cormac Mcarthy’s The Road. What follows is not so much a review but my emotional reaction to it..

>194 kjuliff: I have just found The Road in my searching for good books to read. Your review leads me to bypass this as I am in no condition to confirm my greatest fears. Like you, not in my lifetime but surely in children and grandchildren. I can see myself "I actually started crying about two thirds through, and by the end, I was in an emotional mess."

I am truly sorry you had to go through this.

>195 JoeB1934: Oh Joe, it. is a good book. But now was not a good time for me to read it. First time around in 2009 I was tougher. Yes I agree. Don’t read it.

Talking to a friend in Australia tonight I had some feedback on Tim Winton’s latest book Juice. I’ve been waiting for it to come out in America, but can’t even find a to be published date. Winton is one of my favorite Australian writers. But after my experience rereading The Road see >194 kjuliff: I’m not too sure.

From LT Description

Two fugitives, a man and a child, drive all night across a stony desert. As dawn breaks, they roll into an abandoned mine site. From the vehicle they survey a forsaken place - middens of twisted iron, rusty wire, piles of sun-baked trash. They're exhausted, traumatised, desperate now. But as a refuge, this is the most promising place they've seen. The child peers at the field of desolation. The man thinks to himself, this could work. Problem is, they're not alone…

Sounds a bit like The Road revisited, but apparently it’s even more stark from a climate-crisis standpoint.

Enjoyed your emotional review of The Road and I agree with you that the next generation is going to have to adapt to a different world, than the one that we enjoy and a book that carries this message is worth reading now. I will try and get to it next year.

Hugs Kate. But you might be ready for more McCarthy. Should i encourage the darker Outer Dark, or stay safer and recommend the romantic All the Pretty Horses? I guess both. But they are fantasies, not realistically apocalyptic.

Maybe avoid Richard Powers Bewilderment. Another young endearing boy with an apocalyptic messy. I think I cried. I was sure the world was ending. The only reason I feel differently now is I’ve forgotten the details. Because the fears in Bewilderment are essentially factual

>200 dchaikin: I wonder what it is about the endearing innocence of prepubescent boys that makes them the choice for the child characters in apocalyptic books such as Bewilderment, The Road and Juice. If Germaine was still making observations, I’m sure she would be able to tell me.

>199 dchaikin: I have read McCarthy’s No Country for Old Men but found it too violent. I remember considering All the Pretty Horses but it didn’t think it was my sort of book. Maybe I have mellowed and might like it.

>202 kjuliff: every McCarthy is too violent

>203 dchaikin: I didn’t find The Road violent in the same way as No Country. Having gun fights and smashing people in the face is what I mean by violence.

I realize there’s a lurking violence in The Road, but it’s in-your-face violence that I have a problem with.

>204 kjuliff: i understand. The Road is a non-violent McCarthy book. Although it has its seriously graphic moments. Most of his books are far more gruesome. Not all, though

>201 kjuliff: "I wonder what it is about the endearing innocence of prepubescent boys that makes them the choice for the child characters in apocalyptic books . . . "

Maybe it's something like . . . the innocent prepubescent boy is the "before." (There's still a chance, we hope, that a good adult human can eventually emerge, but there are so many ways the whole venture can go wrong.) The post-apocalyptic world is the "after."

Sometimes it’s just about childhood innocence vs (corruptible compromising) nurture before adulthood

>206 rocketjk: >207 dchaikin: But why boys? Girls can be prepubescent too. I think you two men missed my last sentence ;)

>208 kjuliff: But our expectations of what boys and girls will become as adults differs drastically. Young boys carry not only the innocence of childhood, but the potential of becoming strong and/or violent in the post-apocalyptic world. They represent both our strongest hopes -- that they will have the power (emotional, physical, and intellectual) to survive the new world -- and our deepest fears -- that they will give in to the easy way out by resorting to brute violence, making it less likely that the world will ever return to some sort of civil society. Girls are, of course, capable of all the same things, but culturally, our expectation when we see a young girl is that she needs (and even as an adult, will need) to be protected in a world that has become more dangerous. Like so many things, it comes down to sexist cultural assumptions about being male or female.

>209 KeithChaffee: But how will men procreate?. Women would surely be more in demand if humans were to continue to survive. Very few me are needed compared to women to continue the species.

I won’t go into non-biological differences. But physical differences - both men and women are needed to procreate. On average men are physically stronger than women, but women can endure longer. To follow your thinking about men being capable of physical violence and increased intelligence necessary to form a new world, I can’t see that more violence would be effective in building a better world. The opposite in fact. As to the men having more emotional intelligence, I wonder where you got that idea. Nuff said.

So I still wonder why it seems young prebuesent boys tend to be portrayed in post apocalyptic books.

>206 rocketjk: >207 dchaikin: I’m still wondering why it was assumed by both Dan and Jerry that I was referring solely to developmental stage , when I asked the original question in >201 kjuliff: .

>210 kjuliff: I thought I made it quite clear that I was talking about broad, sexist cultural perceptions, but if you somehow got from that the idea that I share those sexist ideas, well, you do you.

>211 KeithChaffee: i’m not sure anymore what you mean by my “sexist ideas”. I am a feminist.

I don’t apply conventional Western gender stereotypes to what would happen in an apocalypse. From a purely biological point of view if the human race is to continue, women will be needed. Easier to collect sperm than to extract an ovum.

My initial question was about prepubescent boys in post-apocalypse novels. Personally, I’m more attracted to prepubescent boys over prepubescent girls. I think they are easier. But that’s a personal preference based on the experience of myself and my friends. There seems to be something extra sweet and innocent about those boys.

But I have strong feelings on how people from minority groups – I include women- are treated by mainstream Western and other cultures. I guess you have to be part of a minority to understand.

So when you wrote But our expectations of what boys and girls will become as adults differs drastically. Young boys carry not only the innocence of childhood, but the potential of becoming strong and/or violent in the post-apocalyptic world. They represent both our strongest hopes -- that they will have the power (emotional, physical, and intellectual) to survive the new world I apparently mistakenly took you at your word.

Edited for typos

Good question, Kate. Why boys and not girls? Or why are the precocious ones girls and the innocent one boys? Definitely some stereotyping. What do woman authors focus on for innocence in their apocalyptic takes?

OK, that last comment came out meaner and snarkier than was necessary, and for that I apologize. Let me try again, with the explicit note that in what follows I am talking about archetypes, stereotypes, and broadly held cultural assumptions; I don't share all of these views, and object to some of them quite strongly.

We still expect that the leaders in a society are more likely to be men than women. One of the themes of a post-apocalyptic story, even if only in the subtext, is what comes next. Do we find a way to return to some sort of organized civil society, and if so, how? And because we expect that most of our leaders will be men, the raising of boys to be the leaders of the future takes on a lot of weight.

What type of men will these boys turn out to be? There are two conflicting things someone might mean when he says to a boy/young man, "Be a man." From a fellow frat boy, it probably means to indulge in all of the worst aspects of masculinity -- treat women as your subordinates; present a facade of physical invulnerability; and if you must have emotions, you certainly shouldn't share or talk about them. From a wiser mentor, "be a man" might be an instruction to steer into the best aspects of masculinity -- being supportive of your friends, community, and family; being emotionally honest and open. In the first case, "be a man" is an instruction to not be a woman (or to not be the bundle cliches that we associate with women); in the second case, "be a man" is an instruction to not be a child.

Broadly speaking, those two versions of "be a man" represent (in the first case) our fears and (in the second case) our hopes of what a post-apocalyptic restoration might be. I don't think there's quite so sharply defined a pair of contrasting notions of what it means to "be a woman," so a female child doesn't so clearly stand in for the potential answers to the "what comes next" question.

Authors are drawn to boys in apocalyptic tales because they are swimming in the same sea of archetypes and sexist cliches as the rest of us, and that sea has made boys a more obvious symbol for The Future than girls are.

>213 dchaikin: Yes interesting question. i couldn’t think off-hand of any adult books with innocent pre-pubescent girls as a main character in the apocalypse, so I asked ChatGPT and after going through about 20 or 30 books it wrote the following. of course, ChatGPT took a while to comprehend my question..

You are right to notice:
• In the adult literary apocalypse genre
• especially books like The Road
• where a single adult + one child travel together

The child is almost always a boy.

I hadn’t thought of the precocious child being a girl, but you are right. Without any backup, my gut feel is that little girls are often portrayed as a little different, often all-seeing or strange. While, the boys are guileless.

>214 KeithChaffee: No need for apologies Keith. At little snarkiness is ok by me.

But as to your thoughts as explained in your last post, I just don’t agree. I believe that if anything lasting comes out of the apocalypse. It will be lead by women. Me have had their run.

As to the saying. “be a man” it is not a sentence I’ve come across in my life. My own father and the father of my children would never say such a thing to either of my children..

I suppose we come from different cultures, you and I, and we’ve experienced very different experiences in our lives. I accept that you have your view and I understand it is not your own, but it is your understanding of how the world is.

I understand those views are common in certain groups in society, but not all groups. I don’t look to men as my protectors. if anything, like most women I’m scared of men if they are strangers and I am alone.

When I look at world leaders, I can’t see any of them leading us out of an apocalypse. In fact, if there is an apocalypse, it’s these very men who put us there.

* Edited for typos

>208 kjuliff: & >209 KeithChaffee: I mostly agree with what Keith is saying here. But also, I wasn't thinking of a literal post apocalyptic world per se, but instead thinking of these stories more as metaphors for our own world, at least within the American and Western European cultures. In that context, I was thinking of all of our frustrations with and anger at the general scope of toxic masculinity. Hence the emphasis on boys and not girls.

"The post-apocalyptic world is the "after."

In the metaphor as I was thinking of it, this "after" is after the prepubescent innocent boy loses his innocence and his prepubescence and potentially goes as toxic as a post-climate change hellscape.

>217 rocketjk: You seem to be thinking about life post the apocalypse, and that it will be more of the same. That those attitudes and actions that brought about the apocalypse will be necessary for a rebuild.

I am a little more optimistic and I believe that any new society that could arise from the ashes would be the better for it. Where as you and Keith seem to think humanity would be in for much of the same, and that the current stereotypes of men and women are built in, rather than learned.

I think this topic has run its course and moved away from my initial question and Dan’s extension of it. I would’ve liked to further discuss Dan’s post >213 dchaikin: that expanded on my initial post.

>218 kjuliff: To bring it back to The Road specifically, I'd say that my (admittedly limited) reading of Cormac McCarthy's novels is that the author doesn't quite seem able to make the leap into thinking of women as people. We are meant to care about the child's fate, so therefore the child has to be a boy. I suspect that McCarthy never considered doing otherwise.

I’m currently reading a book that was recommended to me by Lisa. It’s Daughters of the Bamboo Grove by Barbara Demick
and I’m finding it very useful, as Demick is a journalist and gives an outside and credible view of posr revolution changes in China’s economical and political policies. Although the book centers around the problems of the “one child” policy and its repercussions, the reader’s interest is held by one families experience in losing a child.

I also read Demick’s book about North Korea - also a Lisa recommendation. I find Demick’s journalist background helpful for maintaining interest in books about culturally remote countries,

>219 RidgewayGirl: I could not agree more. And thank you Kay for answering my question >201 kjuliff:. It’s as if McCarthy doesn’t see women at all. As if half of the human race doesn’t even exist. The three women who make very brief appearances in The Road are there as props, existing in order to fill inconvenient purposes.

The first is the man’s wife who conveniently disappears after giving birth to the boy. Another briefly appears as the derelict wife of an old man, and finally the wife of the boy’s rescuer who hugs him and then spends her time having conversations with G-d.

Altogether these three women would take up two paragraphs at most in the whole book. They are inconsequential, of no importance, and I had to think hard even to remember them.

>218 kjuliff: "You seem to be thinking about life post the apocalypse, and that it will be more of the same."

No. I was thinking of the post-apocalyptic settings of those novels as metaphors for our own times. Sorry to continue the topic, but I just wanted to clear up that misunderstanding.

>222 rocketjk: Unfortunately I still don’t understand what you are saying. We’ll have to leave it at that. Have you read any Scott Galloway? Notes on Being a Man? It’s a bit pop sociology, but I’m thinking that in many ways he is right. Many male stereotypes that you and Keith are talking about are more 1950s than 21st centuary.

There’s a good summary of Galloway’s thoughts Notes on Being a Man, and Advice for Young Men Who Are Feeling Lost.

>223 kjuliff: No, I haven't read Galloway. I did take a quick look at the summary you linked to.

"Many male stereotypes that you and Keith are talking about are more 1950s than 21st century."
Maybe. But if they are, I think they've been replaced by (or evolved into) problems equally harmful. Many of them are described in the article you linked to.

>224 rocketjk: Precisely

>224 rocketjk: Sorry for my abrupt answer. But I really do not get it. if you see these novels as metaphors of our times, why are the women left out? I really don’t want to continue this topic but it seems to be that there is a major difference between my thinking and that of yours and Keith. Keith explaining to me that men are more emotionally intelligent was like a red flag to a bull.

Sometimes I think that even enlightened men fail to see how women have different life experiences, and take exception to the assumption that men are the natural leaders and more emotionally able to make decision. I suspect your reaction will be that’s not what you said, and I’m not going back to quote from posts, but your very acceptance of these stereotypes disturbs me.

>226 kjuliff: " if you see these novels as metaphors of our times, why are the women left out?"

The question I was answering was a little different as I saw it . . . not why women are left out, but why prepubescent boys in particular are generally chosen as protagonists. It's basically two sides of the same coin, I know, but bear with me here. Yes, I see the novels as metaphors for our times (or at least that's one of many ways they can legitimately be read). One thing we know about our times is that we have a male toxicity problem. So we have an innocent young boy, about to stumble into adulthood. Will he retain his innocence, or at least his positive viewpoint about life, and fight through the clamor to lead a constructive life, or will he succumb to the violence (metaphorical or otherwise) of the terribly degraded world before him to become another facet of that violent, degraded world? I'm saying that males may be chosen for these characters not because they're in any way superior to woman or because women's experiences of the world are any less complex, varied, deep or valuable, but because the very problem being confronted, at least in my cockamamie theory, is toxic masculinity.

>227 rocketjk: In The Road the child is constantly asking for reassurance that “we are one of the good guys, aren’t we Popa”. He talks about goodness and about how he wants to be sure that his father will not eat people. The child doesn’t want his father to kill anyone and he wants his father to help people they find on the wayside. He believes they are “carrying the fire “. It is all about being good for the next world.” it is not about the father and son doing bad things, spoiling the world. They are looking for goodness. The father to does not want to harm people, to kill or eat people.

At least in The Road it is not about continuing the evil things that brought about the apocalypse. It is about hope, among other thigs.

Nasty masculinity may have brought about the apocalypse, but The Road1 is not suggesting that this is just how it is meant to be.

The young boy is a symbol of innocence. My original question stands; why wasn’t a young girl chosen to stand for innocence? Now I see that you think it’s a boy because men messed up the world. Personally I think there’s more to it. I see it as Kay did >219 RidgewayGirl: . As far as McCarthy is concerned, women are invisible.

McCarthy practically ignored women. The exception is arguably Stella Maris. But she could be any gender. There are prominent women characters in The Outer Dark, All the Pretty Horses and No Country for Old Men. But things happen to them. They aren’t prime movers. (His male characters can be that way too). In Child of God the main female character is a corpse…

>229 dchaikin: Thanks for your comments Dan. I feel understood. 😊

>227 rocketjk: i don’t buy the idea that most writers aren’t sexist. It seems to me it must be an underlying assumption in your and Keith’s arguments. These writers are impacted by their very paternalistic cultures. So the average writer is far more sexist than he or she realizes. If you assume some unintended sexism in an author, you get far less convoluted answers to these questions.

>230 kjuliff: you’re going to have to imagine a smiling emoji

>231 dchaikin: " i don’t buy the idea that most writers aren’t sexist. "

I never said or thought anything like that.

"It seems to me* it must be an underlying assumption in your and Keith’s arguments."

You are wrong. I never addressed that issue at all. I simply conjectured (note that my initial post on this subject {>206 rocketjk:} began "Maybe it's something like . . . ") that the writers might have had male protagonists because they were expressly addressing toxic masculinity. I never spoke to whether they were or weren't sexist, consciously or unconsciously. At all. My conjecture was one possibility that occurred to me. C'est tout. The only reason I posted on the topic more than once was that Kate kept misunderstanding what I was getting at.

Keith can defend himself if he feels like returning to the conversation, but I will say that in >214 KeithChaffee: he wrote, "Authors are drawn to boys in apocalyptic tales because they are swimming in the same sea of archetypes and sexist cliches as the rest of us, . . . " How is that claiming that male authors aren't sexist?

* It strikes me that instead of making the sort of assumption about what a fellow LTer is saying/thinking that starts with the phrase "It seems to me," an assumption that stands a decent chance of being substantially ill conceived, a better strategy is to ask a direct question: "Are you saying that . . . ?" Or even, "I assume you're not saying that . . . but that's how it reads to me. What am I missing?"

>233 rocketjk: apologies. “It seems to me” was my attempt to give you a chance to tell me i was wrong. Poor choice. It would have been much better to ask.

>234 dchaikin: Well, and my apologies, as well, for reacting so sharply.

>235 rocketjk: no worries Jerry. I probably deserved it. Appreciate your thoughts on all this

Nuff said.

if only all the worlds disagreements could be solve so easily

>238 cindydavid4: oh Cindy, I’m going to defer to the men from now on.🙃. I keep learning the same lesson..

When I was raising my teenagers in Australia, many middle-class Australians were adopting children from Vietnam. In many cases, the adoptions brought about problems. Many of the children developed emotional issues.

A couple I knew adopted twins from Vietnam. They were careful and kept the children’s Vietnamese names. They went with them to Vietnamese class to learn Vietnamese themselves, and to make sure the children mixed with other Vietnamese kids. They took them to Vietnam every year.

The story of this couple was written up in the local paper as a success. The newspaper article was about the problems of inter-country adoption. My friends’ family was featured as a success story. It’s not hard to see why.

Although I picked up Daughters of the Bamboo Grove to learn about modern China, I found it was a lot about inter-country adoptions and twins. Which was not a bad thing, as I’m interested in the ethics of this fortunately declining phenomenon I wrote a review but due to a double listing and other technical issues, it is no longer showing.

>240 kjuliff:
Barbara Demick is the author. Joy Osmanski is the narrator of the audiobook.

This is on my my want-to-read list but I'm waiting until a better edition comes out later down the line.

>241 lilisin: Thank you. LT has the book listed twice, one with Osmanskia coming up first after the title. I should’ve picked up on this as I’ve read another Demick book and it was one of the reasons I chose this one to read..

I tried to fix it but my review has consequently disappeared. I put in a whole new entry with the review and deleted the old one from my library after copying the review across. But no go.

I think my eyesight has deteriorated too far for me to write reviews. It’s been a tough month.

>242 kjuliff: you have a review here:

https://www.librarything.com/work/35279989/t/Daughters-of-the-Bamboo-Grove-From-...

Also you’re the only member of this “edition”. You can edit your book and rename the author. And you can next combine the book with the other editions on the author page. (Anyone can combine it. But best to fix the author first)

>244 dchaikin: OK thank you Dan. I have done most of those things. But I haven’t combined the book with other editions from the author page.. What I did was delete the book from my library and re-enter it with the better edition. Then I made sure it was showing up directly and I pasted my review back in the new entry. ( I had kept the review on my Notes app. . But I can’t attach it to my post. It throws an error. _

It’s not a very good review so maybe I’ll just forget about it. I’m feeling a bit poorly today. I think I’m battling too hard with my vision and I need to accept my limitations..

The main book page for the book has no reviews. You might try again?

https://www.librarything.com/work/33826097/t/Daughters-of-the-Bamboo-Grove-From-...

>246 dchaikin: I tried, I did everything I could think of. I even tried to make the review better.. the review is there, but I can’t attach it to my post. It’s also listed for a book with no other reviews. This is a mystery to me.

Why are there so many LT listings for the one book? And how does one know which book out of the several with the same name and author one is reviewing?

Thank you for your help but I am seemingly helpless. Now I have that Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young song stuck in my mind. ;)