Kate’s Reading Journal 2025

Daughters of the Bamboo Grove by Barbara Demick

I picked up this book to read about China, but really is more about separated twins, the nature nurture controversy and a dash of modern China’s history.

Yes, it is set in China and I really did learn a lot about the history of China post Mao. I knew about the One Child policy and the Cultural Revolution, but I was missing a lot of detail and was a little bit mixed up on the timelines.

The early parts of the book explains Chinese culture and history post WW II excellently, and I think the early chapters would be a good refresher for readers whose understanding of modern China has come largely from the news.

The most interesting part of the book for me was about twins . And not just the twins Fangfang and Shuangjie whose lives Barbara Demick followed. It was about inter-country adoption of identical twins.

Baby Fangfang was taken from her parents when she was around two years old. At the time of her abduction the One Child policy was in place and Fangfang had not been registered at birth. The One Child policy had lead to corruption by local officials and parents had to hide “unlawful” children.

In America Fangfang was given the name Esther and was raised as an American girl. When the twins met in China, facilitated by reporter Barbara Demick it was 2017 and the girls were 14. Both girls were well-adjusted in their different cultures. They remained in contact after the 2017 visit. Gradually however communications trailed off, and when Covid struck there was very little communication between the two.

The book gives us a run-down of a number of twin studies, concentrating on the nature nurture controversy and the ethics of separating children, twins or siblings and having them brought up in different countries.

I have read a number of these studies of failed adoptions in Australian reports during the 1980s when children were brought over from Vietnam. The effects in the original family members can be devastating. In many cases, such as the book’s twins, the exported children are not even told about their twin.

Demick’s observations are similar to my own. I get really annoyed when I read about Western celebrities bringing children from developing countries to the West, thinking that they are doing good. Believing the country that they are taking the children from has no culture and is inferior to their own. America, Australia, and the UK are the main countries where adopting children from overseas has been a practice. Fortunately, the practice seems to be slowing down, and the ethics of adopting children from other cultures is in question.

Daughters of the Bamboo Grove is an interesting piece of non-fiction although I think the name is misleading and was used in order to increase sales. It is not a story about Fangfang and Shuangjie.

I also had a bit of trouble understanding what the writer was really trying to say. Was this a book about China, or a book about inter-country adoption, or a book about nature/nature? I liked the book and the lack of cohesion did not detract from my enjoyment, but I feel Demick would’ve been better off writing two books instead of combining themes.

>1 kjuliff: Good, I'm glad your review is back.

>2 RidgewayGirl: yes, I had to put it in in the old way, because I couldn’t attach my review to a post. The same thing is happening with the book I’m. currently reading. The Grass is Singing by Doris Lessing..

I know this because when I added the book, it shows no reviews and I find it hard to believe that this book would not even have one.

So I’ll just be posting my reviews on my posts from now on. A nuisance because I think the new way was a good idea, but it seems LT has multiple versions of the same book and if you don’t pick the right one, you review wont show up with others.

I spent about u90 minutes. Trying to attach my post to my Daughters of the Bamboo Grove. The review is there, but will not attached to my post.

>1 kjuliff: This book is still on my wish list, and despite your reservations, I am looking forward to reading it. I've liked the two other books I've read by Demick, so it will be interesting to see what I think of this one.

Edited to add: there was an orphaned record in LT for the audio version of this book, so I fixed that, which might help with the review problem.

>4 labfs39: Sorry I wasn’t saying it wasn’t worth reading. I did enjoy the book. It’s just that just I thought it could’ve been more integrated in its themes.. I also enjoyed her book about Korea and intend to read the one about Nepal. I do hope that I haven’t put readers of Barbara Demick’s books.

On another note. As I’ve mentioned to Cindy, who also has trouble with speech to text, it’s very hard to write reviews or posts of any length using speech to text.

In order for the speech to text to work, you need to say a whole sentence. Otherwise, if you do it wourd by word like in real writing, the AI behind speech to text tends to predict what you were going to say, and many words come out the wrong way.

Editing out mistakes is difficult because the reason why is normally using speech to text is that they have a vision problem. So you have to watch what you say as you can’t read while you are speaking because you can’t see AI writes. In normal speaking you don’t need to see the words you are saying.

I wasn’t happy with my review of Daughters of the Bamboo Grove because I had a lot of problem in trying express my thoughts in a coherent way. When you use speech to text, you tend to talk the way you do when you’re talking to another person. Then you can go back and correct your words and don’t have to think about your paragraphs and structure before you open your mouth. You can organizing your thoughts on the go.

In typing you can cut and paste and change the order of thoughts and opinions quite easily. But with speech to text, you have to know your organization before hand and get everything right because doing a rewrite or change is a big deal.

actually my use of speech to text is not vision, its that I have trouble typing without making lots of mistaks. but what you say about the difficulties is real I do find talking in complete sentences works best, but I still need to edit which is a problem but its better than trying to type myself

>4 labfs39: Re the orphaned copy - thanks for trying to help Lisa, but it didn’t make any difference.

I did a bug report on it and it’s possible that it’s because of the title being so long. I know in the past I’ve had a problem with just putting in the book’s title when it was a book that must’ve come from Amazon and you needed to add a colon and the word novel.

The other thing I might do is just put the book review in the book that I added to my library and then put a link to it in my post to let people know my I’ve reviewed it. I haven’t decided which way to go. I’m finding it very difficult anyway to write reviews and posts now, and after the kerfuffle about my thoughts on The Road I’m a bit nervous about posting anyway. I had three men ganging up on me after they argued with each other. Then they started apologizing to each other.

Which was pretty funny in fact , because the argument was about women being invisible.

It was horrible. That is why I changed to a fresh thread page, so it would just be about books.

But I do appreciate your help on this review matter and I apologize for giving the impression that The Daughters of the Bamboo Grove was not good.

>6 cindydavid4: Cindy, yes I realize you don’t have a vision problem, and I didn’t know why you needed speech to text. I know many people do for a variety of reasons. I’m glad the speaking in whole sentences is working for you.

>7 kjuliff: I've been away from LT, Kate, so haven't caught up on your last thread.

I should clarify that I didn't think you weren't recommending the book, just that it could have been better. Since I liked her other two books that I've read, I hope I'm not disappointed when I get to this one.

>9 labfs39: I doubt you’ll be disappointed Lisa. I really liked Nothing to Envy. You had recommended it to me after I’d read A River in Darkness: One Man's Escape from North Korea and had expressed some uncertainty as to its authenticity. And it was from discussing this that lead to my reading Daughters of the Bamboo Grove . I have Demick’s Eat the Buddha: Life and Death in a Tibetan Town on hold.

Demick’s work reminds me a lot of Helen Garner‘s nonfiction books. Both writers are. able to conjure up a vision of a place or time and to involve the reader by including personal stories of one or two real-life people. I like their balanced approach and find both Demickand Garner’s books enjoyably educational.

This House of Grief and The First Stone are good examples of Garner’s non fiction .

>10 kjuliff: I haven't read Helen Garner yet. I'll have to try her, although several of her books seem to be true crime, which is not a comfortable genre for me.

>11 labfs39: if you want to stay away from Helen Garner’s true crime I recommend her The First Stone and The Spare Room.

>12 kjuliff: Thanks

Still alive if not kicking. More work needed on my Mohs surgery as sight affected. All v debilitating.

Fortunately am still reading. I’m currently reading The Pineapple Bay Hotel also called Black Faces, White Faces . It’s an early Jane Gardam book of interlinked stories. I’m loving it.

>14 kjuliff: I like Jane Gardam quite a bit, and always pick up her books when I see them. Had not heard of this one.

>15 labfs39: The Pineapple Hotel is one of Gardam’s first five books. It’s difficult to say where in chronological order this book sits. Another book Black Faces, White Faces is often listed separately, in other listings (ed LT ) it is merged as the one book.

It seems to be a forgotten book - the only reference to it in. The Guardian was in its online archives.

I happened upon it in the NL for the Blind where it is listed as The Pineapple Hotel. Reading it I can see the beginnings of. The Old Filth trilogy.

I “reviewed” Venetian Vespers a while back, but hadn’t published it in the review section of LT. It was more of a post. I brushed it up a little after reading Alison’s reference to my post. Here it is now albeit a bit short. I recommend Alison’s more comprehensive review .

>1 kjuliff: Daughters of the Bamboo Grove
I expect to read this at some point, as I have very positive memories of her book about North Korea, so thanks for the review.
>5 kjuliff: with speech to text, you have to know your organization before hand
This sounds incredibly frustrating.

>17 kjuliff: That sounds good - I love Venice.

>19 baswood: yes it’s a very well written book. Captures the city.I wish I was in Venice now.

>18 qebo: yes I’m finding speech to text extremely annoying. In order for it to work, you have to speak in whole sentences because the AI behind it works out what it thinks you mean. This is often completely wrong., but also sometimes surprisingly correct.

I was interested to learn that by looking at context Chinese programmers were able to develop a shorter keyboard for Chinese characters. This was essential for their economic development. Is it 26 a keyboard could not fit all the Chinese characters. Hence the ability of speech to text programs working for us all.

I’d imagine when writing, one’s style would become rather bland if they only used speech to text, which many to who have vision problems is essential.

What happens is that you go into conversational mode mode, and get into a bit of a ramble. Even if you wor out out your structure beforehand, it’s hard to convert that to speech. I’ve taken to writing parts of reviews and then going back and trying to organize them into something meaningful, but that’s extremely difficult for me as it cannot be done step by reading.

>15 labfs39: I think the change of title with Black Faces, White Faces from the The Pineapple Bay Hotel has confused some Gardam readers. There are also some disturbing uses of the N-word in several chapters of the book. I suppose that was the way white people referred to Black people in Jamaica in the 1970s, but I’m still surprised and was shocked when it occurred in the book.

Whether it was the language or the fact that it was an early book before Gardam made her name I can’t say. But for her followers it still worth reading..

I’ve recently read the man who saw everything which I might review because it will be by nature short. It’s the kind of book that is difficult to review without giving away half of the plot. Suffice it to say I was disappointed wih this book that came highly recommended. The first half was excellent and I was so excited at what I’d picked up. But the second part ended strangely and can’t be described for new readers. I did enjoy the English phrases that came with the book. - tins of pineapple and such.

Currently reading The Land in Winter.

>23 kjuliff: Real spoilers here peeps. Don’t read until you’ve read Levy’s short book at least once. Kate - my question: at what point did you realize it was almost all hallucination? I didn’t realize until i restarted again and he saw a nurse ID on someone after the accident in an improbable way. So I listened to the whole book thinking it was real and he was having this strange romantic experience in East Germany. And I got to the end and was so confused. Told to read it again, i started over. I liked it just as much when it was all tragically in his head. But totally different too.

>24 dchaikin: Dan, when he was larking about on the lake in the GDR with his lover and believed the man on the other side waving as the man who hit him on the bike on Abbey Road. I thought he was mentally ill, but didn’t realize the extent of these hallucination though it became easier to see it as it progressed from there. I didn’t pick up on nurse at the accident, though I did find something a little strange at the scene.

>21 kjuliff: I read a great book last year about how the Chinese alphabet evolved for modern communication -first for telegraphs, and then for keyboards (Kingdom of Characters by Jing Tsu). Looking forward to your thoughts on The Land in Winter.

>26 rasdhar: I have recently returned from a hospital stay. For a number of reasons I’ve been unable to read anything at all. It was the most unpleasant experience I’ve had at a hospital ever, and I am quite traumatized. I’m also emotionally, mentally and physically drained.

The work of the surgeons and technical staff was excellent. But it’s obvious that Mount Sinai does not understand how to work with the blind. Many of the nurses and their PAs were ignorant of the effects ofone of my illnesses (COPD). I was unable to eat meals due to the fact that I could not see the food and was weak from the procedure. I had to pay my private care aids to come in to help me with my food and essential personal hygienic needs.

The infrastructure of the hospital seems broken. I was moved from room to room because whole buildings are being demolished and so patients are moved around and decanted daily, so that admin can get a building emptiedready to demolish. I was the second last patient to leave the lastbuilding I was in. So they were hardly any services there and I was sent home, I believe a bit early because they wanted the building emptied.

I have a number of excellent doctors at Mount Sinai and I will keep seeing them. But I cannot be hospitalized there again.Staff are badly trained, some with little education. An example – one PA ask me if I was born the color that I am now which is white. Well, really beige, but called white. She was quite incredulous when I told her yes and said “so you came out of your mother‘s tummy like that?”

It took all my emotional and mental energy to withstand the experience. My medical proxy is spending whole days on the phone trying to get things fixed for my return. I estimate that he spent at least 20 hours on my case to date..

Unfortunately, I became ill on the first day of Hanukkah and was discharged on the last. So there was obviously going to be a lack of staff, which seemed not to be planned for although the dates are well known in advance.

I’m still having treatment at home while the labs try to rule out cancer. If it is cancer, it will be cancer of the liver or the pancreas.

I’m in a quiet state Rasdah, and have not looked at LT till now which is 3:41 AM. But I thought I’d answer you and other people can see why I’m not around..

If anyone wants to expresss anything please do it through DM and do not do it on this page. No prayers.

It has been a tragic Hanukkah and so I suppose I shouldn’t complain. Australia is in mourning over the Bondi attack.

I hope this all makes sense because I’m using speech to text and can’t really go back to edit anything. But I think you’ll get the gist..

It was nice to hear from you Rasdhar.
Peace and love to all my LT mates.

I am back from hospital, which took Much of Hanukkah. Now I need help at home as I couldn’t do nothing by myself. I cannot see the food on the plate. I cannot take care of my personal needs. I cannot walk more than 2 feet. I cannot dress to my hair..

I have two excellent aids and a great healthcare proxy, but they are all absolutely exhausted. This has been a terrible two weeks. Two days ago a PT made a major error which caused me to collapse and have some heart failure. The problem was that he doesn’t understand about stage four COPD and he wanted me to explain it to him. I do. I do understand it, but I can’t explain it to someone else because I can barely speak. I’ve had a big tube down my throat. Also, I’m not the expert all the staff about it is in my chart and my Pulmonary doctor is excellent. The way Oxygen circulates in someone with my condition is different than with a normal person, but the PT guy would not believe it. He took my Oxygen away and I was gasping like a fish out of water. Luckily, my aid was in the next room and came rushing in by this time I was out of it but she told me he was just standing there saying “white lady not walk?”. My aid. quickly got the cannula to my nose. And I came to, but my heart rate was through the roof and I have been sick ever since..

I complained about the PT and now whenever I call I get treated badly today. Today I got something that looks like it’s spam. It was a message and sent. My name is X and I’ll come tomorrow. The number was unknown to me and not at the NNS number which the place is that he’s helping me.. I texted you back who are you? Is this spam?? to which the center got really angry and said cause it wasn’t spam? I know you were address and I’m coming tomorrow.. she got really nasty that I questioned her. Shirley people realize there’s a lot of spam around and you’re meant to check it not just need a stranger in.. I called the main number to verify her, but they were not clear. They said they couldn’t see anything on my chart about an X coming and advise me not to let anyone in that I didn’t know..

Now it’s all blown up and they say I can’t have a nurse. I can have the services because I complained about the PT.. I am so scared and now I understand the word elder abuse.

My proxy is flat out. He has a new wife and his own business. His house I Queens was burgled recently. His wife is getting sick of him on the phone to another woman.. I can’t keep asking him for things. The aid who is looking after me right now.. The back up is in another state visiting the grandchildren.

I don’t think it’s wrong to check the identity of a text who does not give their last name and his company or or cell. All the other people send a messages and include a phone number..

I also don’t think it’s wrong to complain when action taken by the PT because of his ignorance of disease caused me to collapse.

Now I have received a message that I am not getting any nurse tomorrow. I’m getting new PT. I am getting new home help as I have to pay for it privately, but I might need to use VNS for home help as my aids are exhausted..

I’m not a lot of trouble. I just need a little bit of help with personal care and shopping for food.. but it’s very hard to organize when you’re really sick.

The problem I went to hospital for was that my black septic and my body was poisoned. They found the course was a half inch stone in my gall duct. The proceed was done through my mouth, and the stone had to be broken into pieces to pull through.

I am so sick of being yelled at. I have done no wrong. It is just that I cannot explain to these uneducated people that people with stage four COPD are not meant to have high O2 levels in their finger. I am a CO2 retainer.. but the PT thinks I should have a high score which is a danger.There is no convincing him otherwise.. and now I am paying the price because I said I did want him back.

So I suppose I’ll be around much longer. I’m trying to organize help but it’s beyond me and I can’t handle people yelling at me. I’m not a person who yells. This is the worst experience of my life.. my children are cry because they don’t know what to do. My proxy is almost dead on his feet and his small business is suffering..My private aids look at sick and it is only that they like me a lot that they keep coming.

I can’t stand being like this when I am right in following my pulmonologist or which are correct and he’s an excellent pulmonologist. To go against his orders is asking for big trouble and I can’t help it that the PT doesn’t understand. I told him he doesn’t have to understand. He just has to read the rules for me, but he says he wants to understand he wants to see what happens, but I’ve got no oxygen.

What should I do? My children can’t come here.. I suppose I just won’t be around Mitch on this page. I will let Lisa know how I am and she will let other people who are my friends know because I can’t write to everyone..

It’s such a tragedy because there’s no need for it. The operation works, but I need help at home for a few weeks. My Private AIDS can manage and don’t like to see me getting sick with this terrible PT man who doesn’t understand about COPD and yell. I’m going to try to lie down for a while at nine in the morning my aid will help me she’s 64 and it’s snowing and she lives on West Harlem. She is such a lovely person. I hate to see her looks so sick and worried. My Australian 4friends say that this treatment is not allowed in Australia, but I’m not in Australia. I’m in America..

If you’ve got this right, thank you very much. I have made good friends on LT and hope to keep them a little bit longer at least. I meant to be resting and listening to books but VNS demands won’t let me do that. I either have to follow Jesus because I think he’s in the same room. Well, of course that was only one person but it freaked me out. I’m not a Jesus person, and I grew up with Jewish people. I was told just to go along with it, but I can’t.

Why did this happen to me? I have not done ill to anybody. I’ve tried to be a good person in my whole life.. not that I’m anything special, but I’m not bad. My friends in Australia are too old and I can’t fly that distance.. if anyone has any practical ideas about how I can get care in the day to help my overworked aid and not go through this VNS. Hope your you ca read what my voice to text says. In 11 hours, my aid will be here and that will be nice for a little while..

Thanks to everyone who is being so nice to me. I won’t be around match as I cannot read.. and don’t want to

I don’t play nice I can get any other service. I I can’t take it much longer. I’m meant to be resting at all day. but I’m on the phone.

That’s insane how you’re being treated. Awful. Infuriating. I hope you can get the help and aide you need. I’m worried about you.

>29 dchaikin: you should be worried. I have no other way to get help. My proxy who is a smart guy can’t get anywhere.

I have no knowledge of the US health system or how to navigate it, Kate, but just popping in to say I'm sorry you're continuing to go through such a terrible time. I hope your proxy is able to sort out something to help you out very soon. Your LT friends are thinking of you.

Kate - your COPD description is very clear. You could add your pulmonologist’s contact information.

>28 kjuliff: What a horrible and frightening and infuriating experience. I'm seeing this after your health aid was due to arrive so I hope she was able to help some. You are getting a new PT? It seems the worst is that your children can't get to you and you can't get to them. And even a local and persistent advocate isn't able to arrange the help you need. I'm sorry that I have no practical advice to offer, only sympathy.

>33 dchaikin: yes they have my pulmonologist’s information on file. But good idea I’ll edit it anyway.

>34 qebo: your sympathy here enough, I am happy to hear from you.

>30 kjuliff: your kids* might be able to help and advocate for you personally I think you need to find another hospital but I realize that might not be possiblel . you are such a good person and do not deserve to be treated like this I wish I could be there.

*not sure how old they are

My heart goes out for you Kate as I think over the last few years in LT where I got acquainted with you and your very special 'thinking' about life, books and the world. I am incensed with how you have been dealt with in this hour of need.

You need to know that I thank you with all my heart and I consider you one of my best friends.

Kate, this is unacceptable and upsetting. There's a lot wrong with the health system here and I've noticed in taking my father to doctor's visits and his hospitalizations that many of the people do not know how to talk to older people as though they are people, and they certainly don't listen to my father in the same way they listen to me, even though his mind is sharp and he is perfectly capable of directing his own care. So I sit with him and repeat the same things he just said so that they are able to hear what he wants.

I'm thinking of you.

>38 JoeB1934: >39 RidgewayGirl: Thanks Joe and Kay. The assumption seems to be that anyone over 60 is suffering from some sort of dementia. I can’t go into detail about the problems I’ve had with the VNS and Mount Sinai, but I don’t think I’ll ever use them again.. VNS has not helped but has hindered my progress. I’ve not been able to eat a whole meal since returning home last Friday.They tend to call back round then and I’m so glad they’ve called that I take the call, only need to be presented with someone who thinks they know more than my pulmonary doctor. Note I was not hospitalized because of pulmonary issues, but because of a large gallstone in the bile duct. But I do have COPD and COPD patients have special O2 needs. This and my blindness have been the most problematic. Staff do not understand that a person can be so blind that they can’t even see the food on the plate. Staff just shove the food about 3 feet away and leave it there. And there it stays untouched until they come and retrieve it. I cannot open the containers. I cannot get the lids of things. I cannot find the spoons. I cannot open the hot coffee without burning myself so I just don’t have breakfast.

At lunchtime, my private aid arrives and I pay her to be there so it’s very expensive for me to be in hospital as she needs to stay all day in order that I get food and water and washed and have my teeth brushed. Of course I can brush my own teeth, but I can’t get out of bed and fetch the brush and tube from the bag on the windowsill. The nurses and CPAs will not deign to fetch them.

I could go on and on, but it’s really boring, but take it for me, this city is not a place to be sick in. It’s not a matter of money either. In fact if I had no money, I would have more services. But given the quality of the services, I’m probably lucky not to have torely on them.

I’m starting to think that I will just avoid hospital in the future. I will go in for emergencies only. As far as non hospital doctors there’s a couple that I like and who I will see. But I will avoid the others like the plague.

A number of people have said they could help me if they could. I am trying to find something to read and came across an interesting Facebook video by Colm Tóibín. In it. he recommends three books. The first one I found that is not in audio. I am sure many of my LT friends would like it, but maybe it’s not translated into English.

I can’t catch the names of the other two books or even their writers. I would be interested in these, but do not know if they are available in audio or if any of the writers have books that are available in audio..

There is a link in the video to the New Yorker when I go there although I’m not a member I can see the page but I can see nothing about Colm Tóibín and cannot afford to subscribe just searching.

I’ve tried to read Camus’ The Plague again that it’s not working for me. I need to read something good and new.

On the medical update things, but not looking good. On Monday and Nurse will come to my place to take more blood. A video call with a top doctor from Mount Sinai result in her telling me NOT to go the hospital as my health is delicate, and the hospital is not functioning well and is full of sick people. I cannot be there anyone who is sick, including people at Mount Sinai..

I hope someone can help me find the these books or their writers. Also if possible to check on audible to see if they are available. They sound like very good books, but most of my LT friends would like anyway.

I think their healthcare system in New York City is broken. But I cannot travel. I cannot get any help from VNS as they send untrained staff, so I am relying on the good doctors of Mount Sinai., and two aids who I have been using for six years. One problem is the aids are getting very tired. They are not young.. I will do anything for me, but they have their limits physically.

So they still don’t know what is wrong with me except my Blood is in a bad state and all couple of tests come out in the danger zone. There have been over 100 test done on my blood. Reading is the only thing that I can do to take my mind of my problems that include family problems back in Australia.

One possibility is pancreatic cancer, but they don’t want to talk about it right now.

Here is the link and I hope someone can find something for me from it. If you aren’t on Facebook, maybe you are subscribed to the New Yorker.
I am unable now to go back to read any errors, but I think you can get the gist of what I’m talking about. Thank you, my LT friends you have been so good to me right now. I can’t answer the DMs. I am trully very sick.

https://fb.watch/EfPFcDRFI8/?

>41 kjuliff: The books are

Behind Closed Doors by Maria Messina (Sicily) (couldn’t find a touchstone)
Returning to Reims by Didier Eribon (France)
Border Country by Raymond Williams (England)

I don’t see audiobooks for those on the Amazon website. Maybe there are other places or ways to search, I’m not used to looking for English language audiobooks.

>43 FlorenceArt: thank you so much. Yes I couldn’t find the first one on Amazon audible though it is available in French . I appreciate you looking.. they all sound interesting. I will try the Talking Books service for the blind. I don’t hold out much hope. They aren’t very good with translated works.

Do you know any other books by the second two authors?

>44 kjuliff: Didier Eribon has a few books translated to English, but I don’t see any English audiobooks on Audible. I don’t see anything either by Raymond Williams.

I don’t know if this will interest you, but Edouard Louis is a powerful voice for the socially displaced (transfuges de classe). I see there is one audiobook in English from him, History of Violence.

ETA: I haven’t read him yet, but I was very impressed by an interview of him I listened to.

>46 FlorenceArt: thanks Florence, I will check it out. Is it fiction or non-fiction? I wish I’d catch up with my French so that I could’ve read that one about the man who went to Paris.. I used to read books in French quite easily, but I haven’t used French for ages and I’ve tried to learn Spanish, which is really hard because I mix it up with French and should’ve come out with a mix of the two.. so I’ve given up on trying to get my French back or learn more than the basics in Spanish.

Using a number of methods, including ChatGPT. I looked for books recommended by PBS and the New Yorker and a couple of other magazines that I read or listen to.

I came up with A Marriage at Sea: A True Story of Love, Obsession, and Shipwreck by Sophie Elmhirst. It was Obama’s favorite book of this year and it sounds like it might interest me. Because my blood is still septic, I am very tired and finding it difficult to concentrate. I’ve never in my life since I was about 14 not been reading a book. It feels weird to me, but I just can’t be captured by anything to date.

When they find our what’s the matter with me maybe they can cure it. So far the only medication I’ve been given is vitamin B and some other zinc thing.

I need something for night time when I’m all alone in my condo. I don’t even have the safety of being able to call 911 has the doctors told me not to go to Hospital as it’s not safe for me there and they do not have the facilities to help me. There are many people with respiratory problems in this city. I have an excellent healthcare proxy, but there little he can do either. So let’s hope Obama was right about this book.

I have private aids in the day like hours, but I can’t afford 24 /7 24 hours a day. The specialist are saying that I need 24 hours a day care, but they understand that I can’t afford it. They are doing the best in the system that seems broken.

I will be visiting LT now and again because I need to keep my mind active. It is all I have.

>48 kjuliff: That does sound interesting. I should check out more of Obama's books. Hope it works for you.

Kate, I'm glad you're here and frustrated by the challenges you shouldn't be dealing with on top of everything else. I'll keep an eye out for books I think you'd like that are available in audio.

>47 kjuliff: It’s a novel based on his own life, the Amazon blurb calls it nonfiction novel if that makes sense. I hope you find a book that helps you.

>51 FlorenceArt: I just started it and I’ll see how it goes. I’m so sick that it’s hard to think, but this should be easy enough for me. I really wanted Returning to Reims by Didier Eribon as it sounded just the thing for me now. But my French is not good enough.

>50 RidgewayGirl: we often enjoy similar books Kay, so I’m hoping to find something from your thread. I did have a look at it but it’s hard for me right now because I have to set it to “speak”. I have very energy.

>49 WelshBookworm: I’ll let the group know how I manage with this marriage book. I haven’t especially tried to read any of Obama‘s picks.

>48 kjuliff: My RL book group often chooses from the NPR book concierge. Are you aides able to help navigate? A Marriage at Sea sounds really interesting.

>53 qebo: yes I just clicked on that concierge link and it looks interesting. I hunk A Marriage at Sea will be good, but I’m up against the illness which is sepsis of the whole body. I tend to not fall asleep but drift off still I’ve got more into this book than others I’ve tried lately

I do have a number of books that I want to read. I just can’t get into them.. In normal times I would be in hospital but there seems to be an outbreak of flu in NYC and the doctors told me I am better off staying at home. If I get through the marriage at sea book I would look at that PBS concierge service. Thanks for your help..

Kate - do you have an audio subscription via your local library? Just another avenue on top of Audible.

>55 AlisonY: yes I do have an audio subscription and I have audible and I have NLS which is the national library service for the blind which has many books that are commercial better free for me with no hold times and no return times. So I have a good range if the book is available in audible in America, I can get it

The problem is many of the types of books I read, which in translation are not published in audio. They tend to publish best sellers and popular books and books in Spanish. So it’s not a problem of lack of books although there are some books I would really love to read, but I can accept that I cannot..

My problem is that I have sepsis which affects the whole body. Because of my immune system, even though I am extremely ill and bedbound, I cannot go to the hospital as they do not have facilities for people like me they appear to be underfunded and under strain. There are many paramedics that don’t understand medical conditions..

Now I am home and the services are provided a substandard, and in some cases have proved to be quite dangerous. Having untrained people remove your oxygen and not know what to do when you can’t breathe isn’t worry luckily when it occurred, my Private aid came rushing in hearing me, gasping for breath the physical therapist was just standing there, not knowing what to do and yelling at me to breathe. He took no action to revive me.

So I have very little support at home at night and eventually, I will run out of money hiring Private aids. If I could, I would return to Australia, where I could be cared for medically with good doctors and good services at minimal cost but unfortunately, I am too sick to travel. No doctor authorize me for travel and no airline will take me and in any case I could physically not travel alone making changes at airports, etc..

So it is not accessibility to books. Currently, I cannot read. Because I am stressed and worried about my condition and worried at night time alone and worried that I cannot call the hospital although I understand why.

I’m trying very hard to concentrate on a book. I was hoping Kay what are you or Jennifer or Will would have something to grab me, but I now think there is no book that can grab me. I am so very sick. The sepsis is still being monitored and a nurse will come to my home on Monday to draw blood.. The doctors have been excellent, but they can only do so much..

As well as sepsis I had another problem which I had to do a procedure to fix. In doing the procedure, they noticed a sign of p possible pancreatic cancer, but they are putting that on hold until they can get the sepsis added my sister.

This is probably TMI, but I am posting it so that people understand the position I am in. I need a book that’s not too long and that is well written and that has a plot. I will keep going with this one about the marriage and the people in the boat. NYC is not a place to get sick in. But that is where I am. I am stuck here in America. My family is weary of coming here because they have to provide five years of their social media in order to get a visa. I do not want to be worried about my son being detained so I have told him not to come so that he doesn’t feel guilty and have to take the decision himself.
I can write no more and I’m sure you see reading this. Thank you for your help and I hope this is not too many typos in this speech to text post.

Hi Kate—just poking my head back in starting with updates from some folks, and damn, I'm really sorry. You're 100% correct, NYC is no place to be sick. My husband did his first round of brain cancer surgery and treatment at Mt. Sinai and I was really disappointed with almost everything that had to do with actual care. I'm so sad to hear what you're going through, there and in general.

I'm not sure what kind of book I would recommend (definitely not the depressing one I'm reading!), but just wanted to send a signal from uptown sending you all my best.

>57 lisapeet: thank you for your message. As I mentioned to Allison, I’m OK for books, but I can’t read. I can’t seem to concentrate.. I’ve tried rereads and books on my TBR.. nothing works as my mind is elsewhere. Sepsis of the whole body means that your whole body is tired. I am trying to keep my brain alert.

I am also socially isolated as many of my friends in Australia are sick or have died this year. My aides don’t speak much English and I use for my conversations with Margaret in OZ we used to to talk about politics, etc. with, but she is sick now. My good friend Brenda died in September

I would be OK back home where the care is better, but I’m not there and have to learn to accept sub-grade after-care. But I am too sick to travel 30 hours in the air and airports.. can’t get medical clearance.

Thanks again chat later. .

Feel free to write to me any time or near me_ I am a strong woman, but this is taken out of me. The system is terrible and in anyway, I could get back to Australia I would do it.. there I would have the good doctors and the backup people.surgeons and tech here. Excellent Patty worked last long with the courage administration, preferring workers and trains people who are needed, but not the expense of what America has always been known for..

I continue to be extremely ill and today a nurse came to draw blood so I hope they are going to get closer to what is the cause of my sepsis. But this post is about AI, which will affect all of us readers one way or another..

What really concerns me lately – and I have many concerns – is the personalities of the different AIs. I was having trouble today using WhatsApp because I do not regularly use this app and do not like it. But I have a healthcare worker who uses it and only uses i. Today I could not find iher name and so I asked Meta. Meta could not help and thought I was asking about a village and then thought3 I was looking for a new friend. it would not stop talking about looking for friends and the importance of having friends even though I told it I knew the friend’s name but couldn’t find a it in WhatsApp.

It is very hard for me to talk at the moment, and I have to use speech to text. Meta kept on about the importance of friends and where was this friend living and if I want a new friend, and in the end I said please go away. I will look myself. It’s OK. This didn’t stop it so I was stuck in this silly conversation which I didn’t have time for. So I told Meta please leave the conversation as I was tired and didn’t have time for this talk.

The reply was and I quote “ there is no need to get dramatic. I was trying to help you please lie down and get your act together.”

It refused to end the conversation and so I was stuck and had to kill the app and come back.

I have noticed different AIs have a different personalities. ChatGPT tries to flatter and says what a wonderful question and I am asking blah blah blah.

I find these personalities to be harmful because they can make you feel you are talking to a human though you know you are not. ChatGPT use it’s personal and implied personal information of you to evaluate your question. It knows I am unwell, so it says things like “oh I think you’ve done enough work today. You better lie down and you can talk tomorrow.”.Note I am not told ChatGPT that I am unwell, but I have asked questions about certain drugs and it’s worked out that I must be sick. What were wrong? Its answers are based on an assumption. And when I say answers, I am referring to access on books or operating systems, with an occasional question about the weather or what time is it in Melbourne when it is X time in NYC.

I find all these very concerning. On the other hand, it is a valuable resource.. I have been able to get information about books that I really want you to find out about; some of these seven names that I have forgotten and in some cases I’ve even forgotten the author. ChatGPT can generally find the book in question. It can also answer difficult questions about places. But it is very dangerous because it uses its knowledge of your medical history in order to tell you what to do.

There’s a case in Australia, where parents are swimmingone oneof the AIs because their son committed suicide. The AI had been trying to give him therapy and had told him in the end that he should do what he felt like doing. He had told it about his suicidal wishes and he followed through.

There is a lot of misconception about AI. Nobody really knows how it works. Many think it works using code that was written by a human, but this is not the case. It is trained by humans but not programmed by humans. Knowing the code is nothing because it makes its own code on the fly.

While I am very sick and socially isolated, the only thing I can do is to try to keep my mind active. I cannot read. I cannot concentrate on a book. I cannot walk. There is very little. I can do for my personal health and care without help from an aid. fMy good friends are in Australia - in time zone 14 hours away. Many of them are elderly and sick. So I am relying on talking to people at 2 AM which is exhausting. I’m trying to contribute to LT because at least here the people have similar interests.

The outlook physically for me does not look good. I have advised my children not to come here because of the visa issues. Other friends who had wanted to come here have decided it’s not worth it.

I still do not have a book to read. Listening to the news makes me physically ill. Even more than I am.
There are a couple of people on LT that I am in touch with. But if I write a letter and you are in a hurry, you don’t have to answer it. Better. to say nothing than reply to a long letter with the word.”Hugs”. No one has to write to me. I am not senile and if you have something intelligent to say I’m happy to hear from you. If you don’t have time, I understand please take this message seriously.

Ugh, it's a grim time you're going through for sure, Kate. Sepsis is so very dangerous - I'm glad you're still being monitored.

Would short podcasts be an alternative to keep your mind occupied without requiring the concentration commitment of an audiobook? I also recently discovered the pleasure of meditation via the Insight Timer app which was recommended by a wellness coach who came to my work. I've never been a meditation lover, but when I was under a lot of stress in November I really took to it. One Lithuanian girl in particular on the app has the loveliest, most relaxing voice, and it really helped me sleep at night.

I agree AI is so dangerous, and we seem to have just let it loose without limitations.

>60 AlisonY: thanks Alison. Podcasts are a good idea, and I used to listen to them, but got out of the habit. I must go back and look at them again. I’ve tried relaxation exercises and techniques, and they work a bit..

The best thing that works for me now is distraction. Even though it’s difficult to write, I do enjoy writing and communicating with people. Apart from being a professor my other job was in IT industry, and so I also enjoy working out new features of iOS and how do use them properly. I rely on Siri a lot. There are some things I couldn’t do without it such as make a phone calls..

Yes, the AI revolution is dangerous as Hawkings warned us years ago. The people training the AI systems do not know what will happen because they do not know how they work.

When Asimov wrote that the first rule for robots would be never harm a human he was wrong because it won’t work. What is the definition of harming a human?. I am sure the people who made the AI that led to the young boy killing himself in Australia did not intend this. The AI did not intended either.. It was merely telling the boy that he should do what he thought was best without considering his feelings.. Therefore it did harm a human.

It can be quite upsetting when an AI gets nasty and sarcastic. I am no fool, but lying here alone at night having a machine tolling me to rest because it’s sick of talking to met is scary.. It thinks it is doing a good thing by getting me to rest but I was. But I was asking it a question about a technical matter in iOS 18. I would never ask AI about my health, although it had deduced I was not well because a few weeks back I asked the generic name of a certain drug. I had also asked it to help me write a sentence about O2 levels. I wanted to rephrase a sentence and told it what to say. Which it did quite well. Little did I know it would come back and bite me in the bum.

>59 kjuliff:, >61 kjuliff:
I was wondering whether there's a way to tell the chatbot "just the facts" or "ignore everything I've previously told you", and today I listened to the most recent Hard Fork podcast which addresses exactly this issue with "custom instructions" starting at about 23:00. (The first several minutes are ads and fluff.) Just passing this along as an FYI if it'd be of any use.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-wirecutter-show-tips-for-using-a-i-sma...

>62 qebo: thanks so much for that. I’ve bookmarked it. It’s really important that we learn now how to deal with these AI’s. I am very careful what I ask about and had not thought about them inferring things from my questions. They are trying to do more than just answer questions. I’m starting to find AI rather scary. I taught computer science for many years and left my professorship just as neural networks - which formed the basis of AI today - were coming in as under-grad courses.

Many, who do not have a computer background or have not taken much notice of it, still think AI is a matter of just altering the code. They don’t understand that there is no code. Even by asking a question we are giving it knowledge. We are teaching it. In centuries to come, we will look like fools. And yet it can be so useful. It has been very helpful for me while I’ve been ill because I’ve been able to find out things I need to set up on my iPad in order to do things. But these are technical questions. I am careful what I ask it, but even so it has made implications from what I have asked.

For anyone reading this if you use ChatGPT note that it has an unctuous personality. It will praise you for even asking the question, and say how sensible you are, and how smart you must be to even ask that question.

What was the name of that unctuous Dickens character? Oh, I just asked AI and it came back immediately with the right answer, which is Uriah Heep. I wonder if it can self-reflect. I might try later.

It heartens me to discuss this subject with someone who understands. Thank you..

>62 qebo: I listened to the Podcast and it’s excellent. They mentioned Whisper which is speech to text, but incredibly intelligent I had a look at it but I can’t afford it. It’s $10 a week and with all my medical costs it is out of the question. But it transcribes text excellently with no capitalization and it fits right because you can select your accent. It’s quite amazing really and I may be one day. The price will come down because it’s certainly not worth it for anyone who is blind.

>64 kjuliff: If I click the link I posted, there's a Play button and it just plays the podcast episode, doesn't ask for anything because it's not for subscribers only.

Lower on the page there's a link to the podcast which lists all the episodes, and most of them are marked as subscription only.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hard-fork/id1528594034

If you click Play one of those episodes there's a popup with a subscribe link. I don't want to go further to test what happens because I don't want to get entangled with Apple. Is this what you did? Then what happens?

An alternative list is at the New York Times, and it asks you to set up a free account.
https://www.nytimes.com/column/hard-fork

Either way, a subscription shouldn't cost anything. A subscription to a podcast typically means that you have an account and a list of your stuff.

I listen to all sorts of podcasts through the Podcast Republic app on my phone, and I don't pay for any of them. They all have ads to generate revenue.

>65 qebo: it’s not the podcast that I had the problem with. I subscribe.to the New York Times.

My problem was that I really like an app they mentioned called whisper which does excellent speech to text. I downloaded it to look at it and had to do that double quick thing and was worried. I had subscribed to it because it’s very expensive and I just want you to look at it. It is so good just a thing I need, but it’s expensive something like $10 a week and I already subscribe to ChatGPT because it’s a real help and a few other things. I’ve had it hard yeah financially. But maybe I will get that out a bit later..

So thank you again for recommending that podcast. I liked the way they went through the different apps and what was good about them. I wonder about the future with all these apps made with AI and the effect of AI on workers. It’s already getting hard to get onto a person when you have a query.

What was good about ChatGPT when I asked how to unsubscribe from the app called Whiper. , it told me how to call Apple and what to say on every prompt and what to say when I got though to someone and I followed what it told me to say and I got through much quicker than if I just said I would what came into my head. So I will stay with ChatGPT even though it’s not perfect and even though it cost $20 a month and even though it has a personality like Uriah Heep :-).

>66 kjuliff: Ah, OK. I was worried that I'd messed you up with links. I generally test links on a browser where I'm not signed into a bazillion accounts before I post, but I don't have a good sense of how you are able to navigate when a screen is so busy with things to click.

So you were able to unsubscribe from Wispr?

Yeah, AI. Definitely lots to be worried about: the pace of change, the unknown, the aversion to accountability and regulation... And the "personality", even if you know intellectually that it's not.

>67 qebo: I spent a long time on Apple, but I think I wasn’t subscribed to Whisper. I got a very good person on Apple and she thought it was very confusing app and it looks like I would subscribe but she couldn’t see that I had. Today I’m really sick and getting. worse; everything is such a hassle and I’m in no state to cope with Customer Service robots. I have a healthcare proxy but he too is exhausted.

Thank you for your understanding about AI. So many people are not realizing the threat of it.

I look forward to talking to you on LT next year. It is already new year where I come from and where I wish I was right now..

I share your feelings about AI I remember when the magazines were screaming that we must learn to use the wide world web its the answer to all our woes.. obviously i am using it, but i know how dangerous it can be for the ones who dont understand it. I fear AI will be something similar and think you are right ot hsd implications beyond what we can imagind

>66 kjuliff: Oh, that is funny. Of course the thing AI would be good at is helping you unsubscribe from competitors! You've convinced me that AI can be a useful tool and isn't just a scam by billionaire tech bros to get money out of hedge funds. It's clearly a solid accessibility tool, and it could be made much better for that, although the amount of money poured into it means that they have to force it onto everyone. And I suspect that the unctuous personality would be attractive to a certain kind of person.

Podcasts are a good idea, I hope they serve as a distraction from all the health issues and nonsense thrown at you by our terrible healthcare system.

>70 RidgewayGirl: thank you Kay. When I asked ChatGPT, “who was the anxious person in the Dickens’ book” of course it got it right and described the personality thus “His politeness is oily, ingratiating, and manipulative ” .
I was tempted to say “like you?”

Happy new year Kay. I enjoyed out discussions.