1Nightcrawl
I have a vintage book en route with uncut pages (to clarify, not just untrimmed, but pages still sealed together.) I haven’t completely decided whether I want to separate the pages or not, but I’m leaning towards yes because I actually want to read the book.
Should I decide to proceed, I wanted to ask the community if they have a particular knife or tool that they recommend for this project. Some context as to why a certain option would work better than others, and link(s) to where to purchase, would also be super helpful. Maybe this thread will also prove useful to collectors going forward.
Thank you!
Should I decide to proceed, I wanted to ask the community if they have a particular knife or tool that they recommend for this project. Some context as to why a certain option would work better than others, and link(s) to where to purchase, would also be super helpful. Maybe this thread will also prove useful to collectors going forward.
Thank you!
3lilithcat
Try a bookbinder's knife: https://www.talasonline.com/Bookbinders-Knife
4BillWoodbridge
>1 Nightcrawl: The rather wonderful advice from the loose insert ‘On First Looking Into Pope’s Homer’, present in the Nonesuch Press Iliad (if you’re lucky) springs to mind:
‘In cutting the leaves of any book printed as this is on tough rag paper, use a long paper knife which will open the whole bolt at one stroke, and let this stroke be firm and decisive. Something sharper than an ivory opener and much less sharp than a ham-slicer is desirable’
The dangers of course are of a botched tear travelling down the leaf (too blunt) or a neat cut but waywardly straying away from the line of the top fold (too sharp). On the rare occasions I’ve done it, the blunt side of a thinnish kitchen knife seemed to be the best compromise. ‘One stroke’ is good advice inasmuch as repeatedly repositioning the blade for little cuts as you go along is a Bad Thing, but I’d advise against going at it like a ninja – I’d replace ‘firm and decisive’ with ‘cautious but continuous, while looking very carefully at the cutting point’.
Hope this helps!
‘In cutting the leaves of any book printed as this is on tough rag paper, use a long paper knife which will open the whole bolt at one stroke, and let this stroke be firm and decisive. Something sharper than an ivory opener and much less sharp than a ham-slicer is desirable’
The dangers of course are of a botched tear travelling down the leaf (too blunt) or a neat cut but waywardly straying away from the line of the top fold (too sharp). On the rare occasions I’ve done it, the blunt side of a thinnish kitchen knife seemed to be the best compromise. ‘One stroke’ is good advice inasmuch as repeatedly repositioning the blade for little cuts as you go along is a Bad Thing, but I’d advise against going at it like a ninja – I’d replace ‘firm and decisive’ with ‘cautious but continuous, while looking very carefully at the cutting point’.
Hope this helps!
5Nightcrawl
Thank you all! I just purchased the large Talas bookbinding knife. I’ll have to watch a tutorial to ensure I don’t botch it.
6ChestnutPress
>5 Nightcrawl: You should get a few sheets of decent mould-made paper that you fold for the purpose and practice on. You’ll soon get a feel as to how to do it. It takes a bit of care but it’s not too difficult.
7sanvito
In my experience it depends upon the paper, whether very thin, or thick, and on which side of the page the uncut edges are. Sometimes I've found a more or less blunt knife works brilliantly, for others, like the more fibrous papers, even a surgeon's scalpel can work brilliantly - but with care not to "scallop" the cut. On the other hand some papers are just effortless to open. Best would be to find any sealed blanks in the book that would be more forgiving to experiments. I would love there to be a fool-proof technique, perhaps there is.
8bookist
There’s no one tool for every type of paper. A blunt butter knife that produces a nice textured edge when cutting tough rag paper (like the Nonesuch Iliad) will make a horrible mess if you use it on tissue-like India paper.
Generally, the thinner the paper the sharper the knife and the more care is needed. I have several old penknives in various states of bluntness and I experiment until I find the right one for the job. I move along the fold in a rhythmic action, using only enough force to make the cut on each out-stroke.
Generally, the thinner the paper the sharper the knife and the more care is needed. I have several old penknives in various states of bluntness and I experiment until I find the right one for the job. I move along the fold in a rhythmic action, using only enough force to make the cut on each out-stroke.
9Transfixed
I am using a jade paper knife, made of stone and bought second-hand. It's perfect.
10Pendrainllwyn
I expect there is a good explanation but why would a skilled craftsman leave this paper cutting job to their customers, many of whom have never done it before and some of whom will probably make a mess of it?
12Glacierman
>11 SF-72: Well, in some cases, often because hand made paper was used, there are some folds along the fore-edge that can't be trimmed w/o taking the deckle with it, so the whole text block is left untrimmed. To open the sections needing it would take a lot of time per copy, so it is left for the purchaser to do or have done if the book is re-bound (French publishers tended to issue their books in wraps expecting the buyer to re-bind as was customary).
It is also true that in such cases, the binder could trim the top edge only, and I have seen cases where that has been done, leaving the fore edge folds uncut (unopened), but that is often not the case and the top edge is also left untrimmed. Time constraints, perhaps?
And in some cases, I suspect it is an affectation.
As a reminder, 'trimming' involves cutting the edges of the entire text block in one operation, whereas 'cutting' involves opening the folds on individual sections one at a time. 'Uncut' and 'unopened' mean the same thing. 'Untrimmed' usually indicates the presence of deckles or uneven fore edges even if the top and bottom edges have been trimmed. BUT note that if the fore edge is left untrimmed, the bottom edge usually is as well.
It is also true that in such cases, the binder could trim the top edge only, and I have seen cases where that has been done, leaving the fore edge folds uncut (unopened), but that is often not the case and the top edge is also left untrimmed. Time constraints, perhaps?
And in some cases, I suspect it is an affectation.
As a reminder, 'trimming' involves cutting the edges of the entire text block in one operation, whereas 'cutting' involves opening the folds on individual sections one at a time. 'Uncut' and 'unopened' mean the same thing. 'Untrimmed' usually indicates the presence of deckles or uneven fore edges even if the top and bottom edges have been trimmed. BUT note that if the fore edge is left untrimmed, the bottom edge usually is as well.
13Chemren
>12 Glacierman: I’ve always thought uncut meant uneven edges and unopened meant the folds hadn’t been cut. I hadn’t considered untrimmed, but I just looked it up and AI informs me that it can encompass both uncut and unopened.
15sdawson
I have a few books like this. Some old, some new. I have yet to cut the papers.
Newest one I have is the 2019 Thornwillow edition of The Great Gatsby. I can enjoy looking at (not reading) the pages that one can open to. And as I have other editions of The Great Gatsby, I just decided to leave the pages uncut. At least for now, and likely forever.
So my perhaps silly alternative -- just keep the book uncut and read a different publication of the title.
There is a video on that page, showing an example of cutting the pages of this book.
https://thornwillow.com/product/the-great-gatsby-by-f-scott-fitzgerald/
Newest one I have is the 2019 Thornwillow edition of The Great Gatsby. I can enjoy looking at (not reading) the pages that one can open to. And as I have other editions of The Great Gatsby, I just decided to leave the pages uncut. At least for now, and likely forever.
So my perhaps silly alternative -- just keep the book uncut and read a different publication of the title.
There is a video on that page, showing an example of cutting the pages of this book.
https://thornwillow.com/product/the-great-gatsby-by-f-scott-fitzgerald/
17bookist
This definition of UNCUT is from the indispensable "ABC for Book Collectors" by John Carter:
Uncut is probably the most overworked word in the cataloguer’s vocabulary, and it has come to exert a mesmeric - and not entirely healthy - effect on the novice collector. He will not, of course, share the delusion which provides such ready (but blank) ammunition to outsiders hostile to bibliophily, viz. that uncut is the same thing as unopened, with the corollary that collectors prefer their books not only unread but unreadable. For UNOPENED means that the leaves have not been severed by the paper-knife from their neighbours. But unless the functional significance of uncut edges is properly understood, a rational preference for them in their place can all too easily degenerate into DECKLE-FETISHISM.
Collectors have always, and rightly, cherished copies with ample margins; for it has been the habit of binders from earliest times to trim off more rather than less of the rough edges of the leaves than was intended by those who designed the printed page; and every time a book is rebound it is liable to lose more. Of books published before the age of EDITION-BINDING, therefore, a tall copy is preferable (other things being equal) to a short one. Yet the edges of all these books were intended to be cut smooth, even if they were not thereafter gilded, MARBLED, SPRINKLED, GAUFFRED or stained with colour. Any copy of such a book, therefore, which has survived with its edges entirely uncut is an accident, a specimen of the embryo stage in book production: rare no doubt, bibliographically interesting sometimes, but not representative of the book as intended for the reader’s shelf. (See also TRADE BINDING.)
With the adoption (1830-40) of PUBLISHER’S CLOTH as the original and intentionally permanent covering of the majority of books published in England and America, the collector’s attitude to their edges is radically changed. For if he is in pursuit, as he usually is, of a copy in its original condition as issued to the public, he will require that its edges (whether uncut, rough-trimmed or cut smooth) shall conform to a now standardised margin. All that he needs, therefore, in this particular respect, is an assurance that the edges have not been cut down by a re-binder or repairer. And a good deal of space is saved by those booksellers who make it plain at the beginning of their catalogues that all books described as being in original cloth have their edges as issued, and so need not constantly repeat the word uncut.
Uncut is probably the most overworked word in the cataloguer’s vocabulary, and it has come to exert a mesmeric - and not entirely healthy - effect on the novice collector. He will not, of course, share the delusion which provides such ready (but blank) ammunition to outsiders hostile to bibliophily, viz. that uncut is the same thing as unopened, with the corollary that collectors prefer their books not only unread but unreadable. For UNOPENED means that the leaves have not been severed by the paper-knife from their neighbours. But unless the functional significance of uncut edges is properly understood, a rational preference for them in their place can all too easily degenerate into DECKLE-FETISHISM.
Collectors have always, and rightly, cherished copies with ample margins; for it has been the habit of binders from earliest times to trim off more rather than less of the rough edges of the leaves than was intended by those who designed the printed page; and every time a book is rebound it is liable to lose more. Of books published before the age of EDITION-BINDING, therefore, a tall copy is preferable (other things being equal) to a short one. Yet the edges of all these books were intended to be cut smooth, even if they were not thereafter gilded, MARBLED, SPRINKLED, GAUFFRED or stained with colour. Any copy of such a book, therefore, which has survived with its edges entirely uncut is an accident, a specimen of the embryo stage in book production: rare no doubt, bibliographically interesting sometimes, but not representative of the book as intended for the reader’s shelf. (See also TRADE BINDING.)
With the adoption (1830-40) of PUBLISHER’S CLOTH as the original and intentionally permanent covering of the majority of books published in England and America, the collector’s attitude to their edges is radically changed. For if he is in pursuit, as he usually is, of a copy in its original condition as issued to the public, he will require that its edges (whether uncut, rough-trimmed or cut smooth) shall conform to a now standardised margin. All that he needs, therefore, in this particular respect, is an assurance that the edges have not been cut down by a re-binder or repairer. And a good deal of space is saved by those booksellers who make it plain at the beginning of their catalogues that all books described as being in original cloth have their edges as issued, and so need not constantly repeat the word uncut.
18mr.philistine
>1 Nightcrawl: Maybe this thread will also prove useful to collectors going forward.
Speaking for posterity, don't anybody attempt to cut open French folds... unless one wants to add copious notes in between! :)
Speaking for posterity, don't anybody attempt to cut open French folds... unless one wants to add copious notes in between! :)
19wongie
I got hold of a copy of Tristram Shandy by LEC last year that had unopened pages, I didn't spend too much time researching as I didn't want dither on it too long and ended up getting a metal letter opener off amazon. Depending on various factors like force applied and how quickly and controlled you cut the page the cleanness of the sheared edge varied in terms of how much feathering and loose bits were still dangling about. Probably not the most optimal tool but it got the job done. I recorded cutting the very first few pages, not sure if it comes across in my movements but I was a little apprehensive at first.
https://i.imgur.com/8ebAqJ3.mp4
https://i.imgur.com/8ebAqJ3.mp4
20Glacierman
>17 bookist: i love that book! Carter had a way of expressing himself that is very entertaining, to say the least. His definitions, always informative, can be somewhat acerbic at times.
21wcarter
I just came across uncut pages in a Folio Society book that I bought secondhand online. I have never found uncut pages in a FS book before.
The book is Lays of Ancient Rome, one of the 20 books in the fine press series from the late1980s.
I successfully cut the pages with my usual tool, the edge of a credit card, using a firm decisive stroke. The outer page edges are now of a satisfactory mildly deckled appearance.
The book is Lays of Ancient Rome, one of the 20 books in the fine press series from the late1980s.
I successfully cut the pages with my usual tool, the edge of a credit card, using a firm decisive stroke. The outer page edges are now of a satisfactory mildly deckled appearance.
22mr.philistine
>21 wcarter: My FPFE copy of Anglo-Saxon Elegies also has a few uncut pages. I hope to set them free some day. :)
23ReadingandJazz
>8 bookist: Do you recommend any particular material for one's first paper opener material?
24ReadingandJazz
Do others recommend any particular material for a first-purchase paper knife? It's interesting to note the Nonesuch Press remark from Bill Woodbridge that recommends "something sharper than an ivory opener and much less sharp than a ham-slicer." I have seen lovely ivory ones online, and the jade one above by Transfixed is beautiful. What do others recommend?
25Transfixed
>24 ReadingandJazz: Nephrite jade is the traditional material for high-level paper knifes, because this stone is not only beautiful, but first of all very apt for the purpose. Another apt stone which was used is agate.
26ReadingandJazz
Would the dimensions--particularly the thickness of the sides--of a bone folder approximate a paper knife?
https://www.amazon.com/VENCINK-Creasing-Crafting-Burnishing-Bookbinding/dp/B01MT...
https://www.amazon.com/VENCINK-Creasing-Crafting-Burnishing-Bookbinding/dp/B01MT...
27Transfixed
Have a look at an exemplary page opener knife made of nefrite (jade): The gift from Tsar Nicholas II to Lord Edward Pelham, Master of Her Majesty Queen Victoria’s Household.
It is engraved: ‘October 1896 – Lord Pelham Clinton from the Emperor of Russia / Presented by the recently crowned Nicholas II on the occasion of his visit in the autumn of 1896 to Balmoral to meet Queen Victoria’
You probably do not own any partially unopened folios valuable enough to justify the purchase of this piece. But it is an excellent example.
It is engraved: ‘October 1896 – Lord Pelham Clinton from the Emperor of Russia / Presented by the recently crowned Nicholas II on the occasion of his visit in the autumn of 1896 to Balmoral to meet Queen Victoria’
You probably do not own any partially unopened folios valuable enough to justify the purchase of this piece. But it is an excellent example.
28astropi
>25 Transfixed: Very nice! I look at it and think "this would make lovely marbling for a book" :)
>27 Transfixed: Is that for sale? Not that I would have anywhere near enough money (nor interest) but I always think such things should be in a museum, but I do wonder, how much it is assuming it's for sale?
>27 Transfixed: Is that for sale? Not that I would have anywhere near enough money (nor interest) but I always think such things should be in a museum, but I do wonder, how much it is assuming it's for sale?
29Transfixed
>28 astropi: I assume it's for sale; you may ask for the price, which will be exorbitant.
This is an eloquent, albeit overly ornate, example of what was considered the best solution at the time of the Kelmscott Press.
I use a similar one, two-fifths the length (mine is 22 cm), carved from a similar stone, and without the garish gold.
This is an eloquent, albeit overly ornate, example of what was considered the best solution at the time of the Kelmscott Press.
I use a similar one, two-fifths the length (mine is 22 cm), carved from a similar stone, and without the garish gold.
30Transfixed
This one looks rather good: www.ebay.co.uk/itm/358597133084. You can make them an offer. The blade itself is some 4 inches long. The handle has a nice engraving if you are a fan of Golden Cockerel and do not require a golden handle.
A must buy if your initials happen to be G.I. or I.G.
A must buy if your initials happen to be G.I. or I.G.
