1DebiCates
Simon Armitage's translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
INTRODUCTION
PART I
PART II
PART III
PART IV
PART IV (this thread)
FINAL THOUGHTS
Discussion for PART IV covering stanzas #80-101 (lines 1998-2530)
INTRODUCTION
PART I
PART II
PART III
PART IV
PART IV (this thread)
FINAL THOUGHTS
Discussion for PART IV covering stanzas #80-101 (lines 1998-2530)
3DebiCates
Stanza 80: After a sleepless night, Gawain wakes early and dresses for meeting his fate.
Stanza 81: More dressing, and he certainly doesn't forget that belt. (Did he wear it on the outside of his armor as the above Folio illustration depicts? That would be a bit risky if he were to be seen by the Lord!)
Stanza 82: He just seems to forget that he did not keep true to the bargain he had made with the Lord, does he?
Stanza 83: "muzzy" and "mizzle"? Never heard those words before. I need to remember them...not only do they make a nice alliterative pair, they also go hand in hand with a metaphorically similar concept.
Stanza 81: More dressing, and he certainly doesn't forget that belt. (Did he wear it on the outside of his armor as the above Folio illustration depicts? That would be a bit risky if he were to be seen by the Lord!)
Stanza 82: He just seems to forget that he did not keep true to the bargain he had made with the Lord, does he?
For as long as I live in the lands of this world
I shall practise every means in my power to repay him.
Stanza 83: "muzzy" and "mizzle"? Never heard those words before. I need to remember them...not only do they make a nice alliterative pair, they also go hand in hand with a metaphorically similar concept.
4DebiCates
Stanza 84: The guy that is guiding Gawain to the Green Chapel is a dude named Hector. A random fact, thrown in. Hector warns Gawain under no uncertain terms he's about to meet the most deadly man on the planet and Gawain will not come out alive.
Stanza 85: Hector suggests Gawain go around the chapel, and he promises not to tell anyone that he's done it. Gawain declines the offer because he believes he will be protected by his faith. (And doesn't say aloud, that girdle should help, too.)
Stanza 86: Hector is astonished at the bravery, leaves. Gawain vows not to cry or groan.
Stanza 87: Uh oh. No good things come from a grassy "knoll" as we well know from Oliver Stone's film JFK.
Stanza 85: Hector suggests Gawain go around the chapel, and he promises not to tell anyone that he's done it. Gawain declines the offer because he believes he will be protected by his faith. (And doesn't say aloud, that girdle should help, too.)
Stanza 86: Hector is astonished at the bravery, leaves. Gawain vows not to cry or groan.
Stanza 87: Uh oh. No good things come from a grassy "knoll" as we well know from Oliver Stone's film JFK.
5DebiCates
Stanza 88: Frightening sounds coming from this place, Satan's church.
Stanza 89: Gawain calls out to be met. And once again encounters the man all green and with a different very large axe. The man is so large, in one step he fords a stream. Just to stand there and not run does attest to Gawain's bravery.
Stanza 90: The time has arrived. Gawain removes his helmet and avows to himself to "Show no more struggle" or fright than the Green Knight did when Gawain lopped off his head.
Stanza 91: Gawain flinches. And the Green Knight swerves the axe from the blow. Chastises Gawain.
Stanza 89: Gawain calls out to be met. And once again encounters the man all green and with a different very large axe. The man is so large, in one step he fords a stream. Just to stand there and not run does attest to Gawain's bravery.
Stanza 90: The time has arrived. Gawain removes his helmet and avows to himself to "Show no more struggle" or fright than the Green Knight did when Gawain lopped off his head.
Stanza 91: Gawain flinches. And the Green Knight swerves the axe from the blow. Chastises Gawain.
6DebiCates
Stanza 92: The Green Knight raises the axe and stops it before it does its dirty deed. Gawain did not flinch that time. The Green Knight is impressed, but after the fake-out revels in trying to insult him before the next blow he promises will remove his head.
Stanza 93: Surprise! The Green Knight just nicks Gawain's neck. He lunges away, grabs his helmet and his sword and announces 'Enough swiping, sir, you've swung your last swing.
Stanza 94: The Green Knight tells Gawain, like some rough-housing old uncle,
The Green Knight now explains the lesson. The first two blows that did no harm were the equivalent of the first two days of the kisses Gawain had given to the Lord back at the castle from which he had received from the Green Knight's wife. His wife? That must have been a surprise to Gawain! The Green Knight's wife is the Lord's wife....thus he is the same person, but here transformed into a green giant of a man.
The third strike that landed on flesh was for the third exchange where Gawain was not truthful.
Quite a convoluted plot....to what purpose? To test whichever of King Arthur's knights took the bait a year ago.
Stanza 95: "As a pearl is more prized than a pea which is white" ...yikes that is telling Gawain he is not all he thinks of himself as being. Gawain is devastated by his own shortcoming (the shortcoming=valuing his own life well enough to perpetrate a deception...I guess that does certainly illustrate how much higher a standard knights are held than most of us would be.)
Stanza 93: Surprise! The Green Knight just nicks Gawain's neck. He lunges away, grabs his helmet and his sword and announces 'Enough swiping, sir, you've swung your last swing.
Stanza 94: The Green Knight tells Gawain, like some rough-housing old uncle,
'Be a mite less feisty, fearless young fellow,
no insulting or heinous incident has happened
beyond the game we agreed on in the court of your king.
The Green Knight now explains the lesson. The first two blows that did no harm were the equivalent of the first two days of the kisses Gawain had given to the Lord back at the castle from which he had received from the Green Knight's wife. His wife? That must have been a surprise to Gawain! The Green Knight's wife is the Lord's wife....thus he is the same person, but here transformed into a green giant of a man.
The third strike that landed on flesh was for the third exchange where Gawain was not truthful.
Quite a convoluted plot....to what purpose? To test whichever of King Arthur's knights took the bait a year ago.
Stanza 95: "As a pearl is more prized than a pea which is white" ...yikes that is telling Gawain he is not all he thinks of himself as being. Gawain is devastated by his own shortcoming (the shortcoming=valuing his own life well enough to perpetrate a deception...I guess that does certainly illustrate how much higher a standard knights are held than most of us would be.)
7elenchus
>4 DebiCates: The guy that is guiding Gawain to the Green Chapel is a dude named Hector. A random fact, thrown in. Hector warns Gawain under no uncertain terms he's about to meet the most deadly man on the planet and Gawain will not come out alive.
By happenstance, I heard a summary today of Hector's actions in the Aeneid which seem likely to be alluded to by the Pearl Poet. In Aeneid Book II, Hector warns Aeneas in a dream that Troy is going to fall. And looking this up online, a found an account which further notes that Virgil does this (in part) because it helps solve the problem of how to have his epic hero, Aeneas, "run away" and still be honourable! While Gawain in fact does not follow his Hector's counsel, it seems the situations echo one another -- or if you will, serve as historical rhyme.
https://www.pantheonpoets.com/poems/hector-visits-aeneas-in-a-dream/
By happenstance, I heard a summary today of Hector's actions in the Aeneid which seem likely to be alluded to by the Pearl Poet. In Aeneid Book II, Hector warns Aeneas in a dream that Troy is going to fall. And looking this up online, a found an account which further notes that Virgil does this (in part) because it helps solve the problem of how to have his epic hero, Aeneas, "run away" and still be honourable! While Gawain in fact does not follow his Hector's counsel, it seems the situations echo one another -- or if you will, serve as historical rhyme.
https://www.pantheonpoets.com/poems/hector-visits-aeneas-in-a-dream/
8DebiCates
Stanza 96: A very Christian theme next, the confession makes Gawain as pure as the day he was born. He give Gawain back the green belt, as a reminder of code knights live by.
Stanza 97: Another Christian theme, this time from Gawain: It's the woman's fault for beguiling and tempting men. Oh, there is so much wrong with that logic that I can hardly speak. Good Gawain vs the woman who did her wifely duty in obeying her husband into tricking another man. Masculinity's convoluted self preservation.
Stanza 98: Gawain accepts again the girdle as a sign of his sin. The sin is NOT succumbing to the bedroom trickery, but the sin was entering into an agreement and then not honoring it, man to man.
What? Gawain really did never know the name of his host. What does that mean? Gawain was tricked by people just because they lived in a lavish castle?
And here we go, it's the fault of yet another woman, Morgan le Fay.
Stanza 99: It was she that set the whole thing up to test the knights and to scare Guinevere. And this lord complied? Gawain declines going back to make merry with these people. Who can blame him?
Stanza 100: Gawain wears the girdle as a sign of his sin. In Christianity everyone is born sinful so I guess this story is, in part, a story to reiterate that only one man who ever lived was without sin.
Stanza 101: Arriving back at King Arthur's court, Gawain tells the story truthfully even though it shames him and they all adopt the wearing of the green sash to remind me them of...something.
HONY SOYT QUI MAL PENCE
"Shamed be he who thinks ill of it." Rather strange as the moral of the story. i guess it can be interpreted as don't be ashamed that you are imperfect...? Or is it, don't ever believe you are perfect?
Stanza 97: Another Christian theme, this time from Gawain: It's the woman's fault for beguiling and tempting men. Oh, there is so much wrong with that logic that I can hardly speak. Good Gawain vs the woman who did her wifely duty in obeying her husband into tricking another man. Masculinity's convoluted self preservation.
Stanza 98: Gawain accepts again the girdle as a sign of his sin. The sin is NOT succumbing to the bedroom trickery, but the sin was entering into an agreement and then not honoring it, man to man.
What? Gawain really did never know the name of his host. What does that mean? Gawain was tricked by people just because they lived in a lavish castle?
And here we go, it's the fault of yet another woman, Morgan le Fay.
Stanza 99: It was she that set the whole thing up to test the knights and to scare Guinevere. And this lord complied? Gawain declines going back to make merry with these people. Who can blame him?
Stanza 100: Gawain wears the girdle as a sign of his sin. In Christianity everyone is born sinful so I guess this story is, in part, a story to reiterate that only one man who ever lived was without sin.
Stanza 101: Arriving back at King Arthur's court, Gawain tells the story truthfully even though it shames him and they all adopt the wearing of the green sash to remind me them of...something.
HONY SOYT QUI MAL PENCE
"Shamed be he who thinks ill of it." Rather strange as the moral of the story. i guess it can be interpreted as don't be ashamed that you are imperfect...? Or is it, don't ever believe you are perfect?
9elenchus
>8 DebiCates: Stanza 96: A very Christian theme next, the confession makes Gawain as pure as the day he was born.
Can't help but wonder if there was another version in oral tradition (lost to us?) in which it ends differently. Maybe similarly, but this ending is so specifically Christian that I assume it was added on, along with the other Christian parts?
Stanza 98
Yeah, I just don't get this. Pretty clearly, he never knew the formal identity of his host, and the person to whom he pledges a formal oath. Is there a tradition that one doesn't share one's identity out of safety, and even visitors honour it to such a point they don't expect it?
Can't help but wonder if there was another version in oral tradition (lost to us?) in which it ends differently. Maybe similarly, but this ending is so specifically Christian that I assume it was added on, along with the other Christian parts?
Stanza 98
Yeah, I just don't get this. Pretty clearly, he never knew the formal identity of his host, and the person to whom he pledges a formal oath. Is there a tradition that one doesn't share one's identity out of safety, and even visitors honour it to such a point they don't expect it?
10DebiCates
>7 elenchus: Oh, that is a wonderful connection, and made by happenstance, too. I'm suddenly struck (once again) with how the Ancient Greeks (and Romans) show up everywhere, usually first. How interesting that we have that connection with the Middle Ages: through history that goes before both them and us.
And darn, I should have studied more in school.
And darn, I should have studied more in school.
11DebiCates
>9 elenchus: I had that feeling, too, about Christianity being tacked on. Wonder what it is specifically in the poem that makes us come to that same conclusion? And sadly, we don't have the Green Knight story elsewhere to possibly help tease that out.
I hadn't ever thought how it could be a historic tradition, not being introduced. I just thought it was a strange plot device. But even that doesn't make sense--it wouldn't change the story if he had been introduced, would it?
One other thought that came to me, back to Hector. I guess he was in on the deception as well, in his dire warnings. Or are we to understand that the Green Knight does those terrible things when he's not being Lord whatshisname, regardless of the appearance of Gawain and the test of King Arthur's court.
So many unanswered questions.
I hadn't ever thought how it could be a historic tradition, not being introduced. I just thought it was a strange plot device. But even that doesn't make sense--it wouldn't change the story if he had been introduced, would it?
One other thought that came to me, back to Hector. I guess he was in on the deception as well, in his dire warnings. Or are we to understand that the Green Knight does those terrible things when he's not being Lord whatshisname, regardless of the appearance of Gawain and the test of King Arthur's court.
So many unanswered questions.
