A Game of Thrones LE

A teaser on the Folio main page would seem to (heavily) suggest A Game of Thrones LE is upcoming:

Oh boy. That will set records.

The SE is already such a great offering I can’t imagine what they are going to bring out for an LE

>2 howtoeatrat: retail price records, certainly!

I'm sure it'll sell well, but this is very much like Howl's Moving Castle -- the first volume of a series that most people who are interested in it will already have a complete series set of it and may not be keen on adding a non-matching volume. But I imagine there's enough ASOIAF uber enthusiasts out there to gobble it up regardless.

I would get it if the series was complete, but best case scenario there are still at least 2 books still to be written...

>6 JorgeAntonioGuzm2493: I do believe we'll eventually get The Winds of Winter in one form or another (Martin reportedly has written ~1200 pages), but I can't imagine we'll ever get A Dream of Spring at this point (an opinion that I truly hope is proven wrong). That said, I enjoy each book for what it is and have been entertained by plenty of series that weren't completed before their author's passing (i.e. Dune, Parable, Gormenghast). At the end of the day, I'm just glad we got what we got, and I'm OK with completing them in my own mind's eye.

The email link:

https://clickom.email.foliosociety.com/f/a/W06DnJWtVAzV2xOKRI5T6g~~/AAAAARA~/QVa...

>6 JorgeAntonioGuzm2493: I’m with you.

>7 HonorWulf: What's the source on the 1200 pages written? I had no idea.

>10 Shotcaller: Martin has given various updates over the years in interviews and his own blog. For the past five years, the page count has been bouncing between 1000 and 1200 pages as he writes, edits and rewrites (he calls it the zero sum game since every time he adds words, he edits out some). He has also either released or read aloud at least eight chapters that he's written.

But the latest update from January was in an interview with the Hollywood Reporter:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/george-rr-martin-interview-thro...

"Martin says he has around 1,100 manuscript pages finished."

"Here’s what happens when he sits down to write: 'I will open the last chapter I was working on and I’ll say, ‘Oh fuck, this is not very good.’ And I’ll go in and I’ll rewrite it. Or I’ll decide, ‘This Tyrion chapter is not coming along, let me write a Jon Snow chapter.’ If I’m not interrupted though, what happens — at least in the past — is sooner or later, I do get into it.'"

ASOIAF is one of my favorite series of all time. I own all SE from FS. Yet all of that said, I would only purchase if it is a standalone GoT (first book only) LE. Not interested in purchasing LE of all books.

>12 anymos:

For me it's the opposite. With series I want all or none of it as limited editions.

>3 Geo135: I suspect it will be the same as the standard with a nicer binding. It sounds like the art is the same unless the artist had additional work that wasn't used in the standard edition. The books are already large, so a bigger size would make them way too big for my taste. We will see.

>11 HonorWulf: Thank you!

>13 SF-72: I mean expectation is 1k per book. You down to spend 5k on it?

Most likely GoT, but could it be something else? Seems unlikely that it would be The Icewall Trilogy by Douglas Niles but who knows :)

>17 astropi: I don't own any of the GoT series but I had a nosey on Folio's website and the image in the teaser is definitely from GoT.

See here: https://www.foliosociety.com/uk/a-game-of-thrones

For just a small moment, I thought this could've been Anna Kavan's Ice.

>19 UltansLibrary: I thought the same - wishful thinking!

>16 anymos:

I'm not down to spend any money on it, actually. I already have the standard editions, which are okay but not great with regard to the illustrations, don't expect this to become a complete set, and am not a huge fan either. Folio's treatment of ROW customers has also been keeping me from a lot of purchases I might otherwise have made. But if it was something I really wanted and the money was available, yes, I would spend that on a complete set of books I really enjoy and where the edition really convinces me.

edited to remove a double post

>20 HonorWulf: I would think that ice being at the intersection of SF and being a modern classic of literary value (given that Penguin has multiple printings of it), there'd be a deluxe edition of it by now (not just folio)!

Release is set for 4pm 14th July limited to 1,000 copies. Dragon leather binding.

That looks pretty cool, I haven’t picked up any of the GoT books yet so I may be tempted by this one.

Looks nice watched the series but never read the books will sell out quick I am sure but not for me.

The leather binding looks absolutely stunning. I hope that FS puts out a promotional video showing how the leather was treated to produce such an effect.

Found this article: https://people.com/game-of-thrones-30th-anniversary-special-edition-11968490

According to article the limited edition book will be sold for $2,200.

>29 DeviousMouse: it better be real dragon leather for that price.

Never will pay that much for a book and have bought quite a few LE’S from folio easy pass.

I do wonder in what way the illustrations will differ from the standard edition.

And they're really going over the top with that price, though let's face it, it will sell anyway.

Am I wrong or could that be alligator or crocodile leather? If so, buying it internationally just might turn problematic.

I’d only buy it if it came with a binding contract, in blood, saying that Martin will complete the series.
That would worth a couple of grand.
Nice of them to remind us that he has taken 30 years to not complete it. Might be more relevant to point out its fifteen years since the last instalment came out.

Should include a gold dragon coin with that price!

That is a higher price than I was expecting so I’m having second thoughts.

>29 DeviousMouse: Wow $2,200 each to move 1000 units?

It'll be interesting to see how that works out. Maybe the enthusiast base is that large, who knows?

Or maybe unsold copies end up in a 50% off sale some years down the line - which is still quite steep at $1,100...

With how fast some of the more popular LEs sell out even when approaching $1000, as much as I hate to admit it that price might not be unreasonable.

Kindle version until Martin finishes the series.

>26 anthonyfawkes: Me too. I've never read GoT but that does look fabulous enough to make me give it a try. The price is less appealing, though.

>36 Ibkay: I believe there’s definitely a market for this — perhaps there have even already been requests for Folio Society to produce an edition like it. I’d assume ASOIAF is currently one of the Folio Society’s strongest-selling series. Considering how globally popular George R. R. Martin is, 1,000 copies really isn’t that many in the grand scheme of things.

The price is certainly high, but when you look at examples like Curious King’s Red Rising edition, where the most expensive version cost over $10,000 and sold out within seconds — it shows that the collector’s market is absolutely there. Of course, that edition was limited to only 10 copies, but still, the demand existed. And Martin is on an entirely different level in terms of popularity and recognition compared to Pierce Brown.

I also think the current Folio Society edition is already quite beautiful, but there will always be hardcore fans who fear missing out on a more exclusive version, especially if it’s signed by the author. And we know Folio Society tends to put way too high prices to signed editions.

I honestly wasn’t expecting this edition to be quite this expensive either but it’s probably best to wait until all the details and specifications are fully revealed.

The binding looks great, but for $2200 they should have kept two volumes for the book.

>40 DeviousMouse: Yes, the more I now think about it, the more I can see that it'll probably sell out quickly even at this price point.

ASOIAF is extremely popular - the fan base is enormous; and this is actually signed by Martin himself.

Well, I suppose book collecting prices are gradually getting up there with comic books and trading cards. We've honestly had it pretty good so far in comparison.

>41 SDB2012: I agree. It'll be very disappointing if the paper is somewhat thin so it fits into a single volume. But then they'd have charged even more. We'll see how it comes out.

I have zero interest in this book, but I have to admit the case looks really really nice and the book itself looks beautiful.

The latest Folio magazine has a short article on this LE, which is due for release on July 14, focusing on the design and production of the cover:

"Marc Lamb is no stranger to a challenge, but even he was excited when Folio came calling last year with a very particular request: to recreate the skin of a mythical creature known for its size, its wings and its fire breathing.

Marc, of specialist tanners Harmatan and Oakridge Leathers, remembers the conversation well. 'Folio's Production Director, Kate Grimwade, called to say she was working on A Game of Thrones, book one of the A Song of Ice and Fire series, and she made it very clear: "We need a leather that looks and feels like dragon skin." But no one, as far as I know, has ever seen a dragon!'

The idea, it turned out, was to create a dragon skin cover for the book. 'It just had to be, says Kate. 'It's simple and strong, with a touch of the medieval. We chose trusted craftspeople who we knew could make this limited edition something extraordinary, with the highest production values.
Folio are fans, after all, and all our customers are fans. So we wanted to create an in-world experience for our community of obsessive A Game of Thrones fans!

Next was a call to Paul Kidson of Ludlow Bookbinders. I've worked with Folio since 2008, says Paul, 'and it's important that we have that shared passion. The skills we use need champions - without them, they will be lost. So customers like Folio are vital. They trust us, and we trust them!

The team rose to the challenge. Harmatan proposed a bold, heavy grain called Giant Hornback for the embossing plate. The plate was pressed onto carefully chosen, vegetable-tanned leather in an unwieldy but delicate embossing process.

It takes two people to lift the plate onto a forklift and into position on the press, explains Marc, 'and then the plate is heated. The embossing process is just 10 to 15 seconds - too short and the pattern isn't deep enough, too long and the leather cracks and goes hard.! Once embossed, each panel of leather is hand-finished with black dye to create the two-tone effect, then individually polished.
The cover is, however, just one part of the story.

Inside, special handmade endpapers featuring a bespoke watermark and made with water and rag courtesy of the Paper Foundation run by Croppers, a papermaker in the Lake District.

The watermark features a dragon created by illustrator Jonathan Burton, invisible until you shine a light through it.

'The pièce de résistance is a limitation label of handmade paper, with hand-lettering commissioned from the artist Stephen Raw, blocked in 24 carat gold,' says Kate. 'The label was hand-delivered by a member of the Follo team to George R. R. Martin for signature, and one will be tipped into each book.' The final book will be housed in a Solander box bound in metallic buckram and foil blocked with artwork by Jonathan Burton. Each box features a map housed in a secret compartment.

'This has been a project of a lifetime, says Kate, 'and is certainly the most ambitious limited edition Folio has produced to date.'"

>44 MisterTrister: Thanks for sharing this article. I have to say, the hype is steadily building up for this one.

I am now taking a more serious look at it, still not an easy purchase though...

I've never read any of the GOT books, nor have I seen the series. But I'll save the $2200 and buy hundreds of books from the thrift store or other outlets.

I've given a no-evidence explanation for the long delay for the last two books, which GOT fans of my acquaintance have been enthusiastic about. The (again, evidence-free) idea is that Martin gave the show producers an outline of the last two books, which they followed. But once he saw how unpopular the finish was, he's gone back to re-do the whole thing so that it would come to a more satisfying conclusion.

>46 coynedj: The first four seasons of GOT (which adapt the first three books) were excellent. Unfortunately, the producers chose not to faithfully adapt books four and five and presented a butchered form of the books in seasons 5-6 (there was enough material for at least three or four seasons). The final two seasons were based on Martin's notes, but were so poorly rushed that I don't think the plot points really mattered. The producers (Benioff & Weiss) wanted to leave HBO for other projects and turned down HBO's request for additional episodes/seasons, so the whole thing became a shitshow at the end.

I personally believe the experience broke Martin's morale -- writing the series has clearly become more work than passion. He does have 1100 manuscript pages complete on the The Winds of Winter, so I imagine it's just a matter of time before he calls it a day and publishes what he has. A Dream of Spring, though, is another story...

>47 HonorWulf: Thats one read of events.
The show runners had a real world problem, ageing child actors. The idea that they could keep making seasons while waiting for Martin to finish would have twenty year olds playing early teenagers. It was bad enough as it was. Bran in particular looked far too old by the end.
Not to mention that the later books introduce yet more characters and stray further and further from the main plots of the initial books.
Martin had one job, finish the books. He didn’t do that. And still hasn’t, six years after the show finished.

>46 coynedj: I largely agree, with the addition that Martin, obviously, has not come up with a better ending.
Hence no new books even since the show ended.
He is far more interested in other projects now. Ones which don’t keep reminding him of his failure.

>48 lawrencegough: The only real world problem the showrunners had was that they signed a Star Wars development deal with Disney and needed out of GOT by 2019. Martin begged for at least ten seasons and was willing to put a time jump in to account for the actor's ages if necessary. HBO was also strongly onboard. Ironically, Disney ended up scuttling the Star Wars project, and Benioff & Weiss ultimately pivoted to Three Body Problem at Netflix (another book they ended up mishandling).

>50 HonorWulf: Very interesting, anywhere I can read more about this?

>48 lawrencegough: six years after the show.
It's seven now. :^)
15 years wait since the last book.

>46 coynedj: But once he saw how unpopular the finish was, he's gone back to re-do the whole thing
Just want to note he's repeatedly denied this. He's also denied other popular theories like the book(s) being finished but waiting for some mystical date (usually a new show release/conclusion, his death).

>47 HonorWulf: I personally believe the experience broke Martin's morale
He's made it pretty clear that he's bad at finishing work, as his other projects also suggest. Maybe watching them make some version of "his ending", or the reception soured him, but he wasn't exactly a productive engine prior to that, going by his own timeline. His original pitch was 3 years to finish Winds, before the show got close to catching up (Dance and s1 of GOT was 2011).
Maybe the simplest answer is to believe what he says: he's "busy" with a lot of other projects. Not just his own adaptations and spinoffs (7 were in the works at some point), he champions other writers' work (Zelazny, Hillerman) being adapted as well, promotes short films of his buddies like Waldrop, and various side projects like the bookstore, rail line, theatre, conventions. When he gets back to work he doesn't like what he's written, so rewrites or skips characters with necessary plot. Again, that's not my theory, that's what he's said on his blog. He also has to deny having given up, or not writing anything, and seems rather fed up with the audience, especially after the incident where someone got up and said he'd be dead soon so he should get Sanderson to finish it (terrible idea for the record). He also had a stinkpiece on the HotD adaptation that he said was part of a whole series of upcoming posts and then had to retract it, presumably when the lawyers got involved.
Obviously at the end of the day he has to own a lot of this reception since it's his job to do, and his own broken deadlines that lay strewn across a decade and a half.

>24 assemblyman: It's a pretty book, and if I had to buy just one of the series it'd be the one with all the promise, but at 2000 dollars there's no chance. Too many other (finished!) books beckon.

>51 lawrencegough: James Andrew Miller reported on it back when it all went down and included it in his book Tinderbox: HBO’s Ruthless Pursuit of New Frontiers. Some of the relevant extracts here:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/george-r-r-martin-begged-201052476.html

>52 A.Godhelm: I think the biggest clue we got on The Winds of Winter was in the Hollywood Report interview earlier in the year when he said he simply wasn't "in the mood" to write it:

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a64917333/george-rr-martin-the-winds...

His passion is clearly for other projects at this point, some of which are in the ASOIAF universe. I'm sure the House of the Dragon experience didn't help either, where, after a promising first season, the producers butchered the source material in the second season, forcing Martin to disown the show.

Folio has confirmed in a reply to a comment on Instagram that it will be £1500.

>55 The_JPS: So, maybe £1800 ROW? 👀

>55 The_JPS: Is this the most expensive LE now (setting aside the infamous scroll)?

>57 MyrddinWyllt: Yes, in terms of raw pounds. But the £1090 Luttrell Psalter from 2006 is actually more expensive if you factor in inflation -- that would be over two thousands pounds today.

>54 HonorWulf:
Amazing how Martin always manages to find people who butcher his work. Poor chap.
Might imagine he would stop getting HBO to adapt his books. Yet he doesn’t.
Real pity he couldn’t get a ten season GOT. Of course, if he had actually managed to write a book after 2011, maybe he would have been in a better position making such a suggestion.

>56 Dr.Fiddy: ROW pricing for every book I've checked recently was +15% on the UK with some rounding so £1725 more likely.

>59 lawrencegough: I believe he was happy with GOT seasons 1-4, HotD season 1 and the new Knight of the Seven Kingdoms season 1. He wasn't happy with GOT seasons 5-8 and HoTD season 2, which basically mirrors the fan response. In terms of HBO, they acquired rights to all of Martin's past and future Westeros books in the 2007 deal, with a perpetual renewal option as long as they keep making new shows, so Martin has no ability to stop them or take his works elsewhere. He does have a side contract with HBO for his own personal involvement that expires this year, but HBO can continue to make the shows with or without his involvement.

>38 treereader: Kindle version until Martin finishes the series.
I laugh, but I do agree. Some might argue GRRM does not "owe" his fans anything, and my attitude is "okay then, explain where GRRM would be without his fans?" so yeah, I do think he owes finishing the series and so far as I can tell, he's done anything and everything to avoid finishing the series.

In defense of Mr. Martin, I would note that in these last years he had been a model citizen-activist here in Santa Fe--instrumental in the founding of Meow Wolf (a local installation providing employment to any number of artists), re-opening a long-closed art house theater, the Jean Cocteau, and co-producing (with the late Robert Redford) the Dark Winds series, featuring the memorable Navajo cops from Tony Hillerman's books.

As it happens I've never read any of his books, and in the few episodes I've seen of the HBO programs I found the violence excessive. For the sake of his readers I do hope he gets around to finishing his series. But I have to add that I've read (this being America) that he has gotten anonymous death threats for not writing fast enough. Not the sort of thing to feed your enthusiasm.

>63 RickartAllen:
Yeah, I think that's what >62 astropi: meant when by "he's done anything and everything to avoid finishing the series". He can do what he wishes, though, I don't begrudge him that. But if he was smart, he would finish his story for his own legacy's sake. If he passes away before finishing those last two books, his publisher will find someone else who will. There's too much money at stake for it not to happen.

>62 astropi:
Right. He doesn't owe us anything. It's funny, though, because if it weren't for the HBO series, comparatively few people would know his work. Sure, he had a following prior to HBO, but it pales compared to the worldwide recognition the series brought him.

For what it's worth, I do think this deluxe Folio edition is quite stunning.

>64 treereader: I would just like to point out that a publisher cannot continue a series without permission from the author's estate unless there is already a clause in the existing contract assigning rights to derivative written works to the publisher (which is not common practice as far as I know).

While of course there is a big financial incentive for the estate to give such permission there's no guarantee. He doesn't have any children so it really depends on his wife if she survives him.

Martin himself has stated his objection to such an arrangement. In fact his comments in this interview implies his will likely explicitly forbids it and pretty much confirms there is no derivative works clause in his contract: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/george-rr-martin-interview-thro...

I ask Martin if he’s ever considered simply giving up on the book. It’s your life, George, I say. You don’t have to spend it working on something if you find it torturous.

“I would hate that,” Martin says. “It would feel like a total failure to me. I want to finish.”

Handing the project to another writer — which some fans have lobbied for him to do — isn’t going to happen, Martin says. There is also no secret contingency plan for somebody else to take over if Martin gets struck by lightning. “If that happens, my work won’t be finished,” he says. “It’ll be like The Mystery of Edwin Drood” — referring to Charles Dickens’ unfinished final novel.

Of course what GRRM might not realize is that since it is his estate and NOT him that will decide what happens if he leaves his work unfinished, the estate may certainly decide "yeah, let's finish this work" contrary to any objections he may have.

>63 RickartAllen: Yes indeed, he even collaborated on a huge AAA video game (Elden Ring), because why even bother pretending at this point you're working on the next book --
https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2021/06/20/what-did-george-rr-martin-cont...

So far from what I've seen, it looks like a very nice LE. That price though, will be hard to fork-up $2000+ for a fantasy that ultimately goes the way of Edwin Drood...

>66 astropi: I don't know much about estate law in the US but I assume if he explicitly forbids it in his will, the estate can't overrule it, at least not easily? In any case this is speculation since we don't know the particulars.

Personally I'm not too invested in a conclusion as even though I really loved the start of the series it kind of lost me by books 4 and 5.

However, I'm curious to see how this LE will sell in any case. I don't think I can personally criticise the price too much. I did shell out more after all for the lettered edition of Tigana from Conversation Tree Press which unlike most of their publications was offset rather than letterpress printed. Despite the much lower limitation with lettered Tigana, I felt it comparable to an extent both books having quite special bindings done by Ludlow.

I think this edition will sell out and do so quickly. Despite the 1,000 copy limitation, the demand is surely there and Folio must have noted the prices for which the Lord of the Rings Alan Lee LE are selling for second hand.

>67 zorg2099: Fair points for sure. I guess I'm in the camp that definitely wants a conclusion and feels it's an author's duty to complete a work they started. But, I don't think we're going to get one. At any rate, it sure will be interesting to see how quickly this LE sells. As you said, could be insanely quick despite the high price. And congrats on the lettered Tigana -- it sure looks beautiful!

>65 zorg2099:

Well yes, and that's a great right-vs-wrong argument, and despite wanting a proper finish you'd like to see right prevail where, if he doesn't finish the story and says no one else can do it for him, that's his choice and it stands firm. But then there's the real world. Be it his wife or his estate, someone will present them a really big check. They won't be able to say no. At that point the best one could hope for is a good writer who's also a fan.

Just worked out that I will be four hours into a fourteen hour flight when this is released. Hope they have reliable and fast internet on the plane!

>70 wcarter: could you ask for help from a family member or a friend? In case this ends up a Curious King level of selling out speed

I can’t seem to find the post (I think it was on Reddit) but someone made the interesting point of this being comparable in price to a lettered edition from a smaller press which only sell 26 copies, but FS anticipates being able to sell 1000 of them. Almost 40x the volume which is pretty remarkable and speaks to FS being a giant in comparison (it’s all relative in this niche community).

Obviously FS has a far more robust marketing department than any of the smaller presses, but even so I wonder how often it breaks out to new consumers. But based on how quickly the popular series’ books sell out (FS LoTR, CK Assassins’s Apprentice and Red Rising) word must spread in those respective niche communities.

I can’t seem to find the post (I think it was on Reddit) but someone made the interesting point of this being comparable in price to a lettered edition from a smaller press which only sell 26 copies, but FS anticipates being able to sell 1000 of them. Almost 40x the volume which is pretty remarkable and speaks to FS being a giant in comparison (it’s all relative in this niche community).

Obviously FS has a far more robust marketing department than any of the smaller presses, but even so I wonder how often it breaks out to new consumers. But based on how quickly the popular series’ books sell out (FS LoTR, CK Assassins’s Apprentice and Red Rising) word must spread in those respective niche communities.

>72 PJ-Reads: Fine Press Forum!

https://www.librarything.com/topic/384216#9194037

>74 FitzJames: ah that was it, thank you!!

>73 PJ-Reads: Folio's customer base and reach is certainly much larger than say a Suntup, CTP or Curious King. And for good reason.

You only need to look at the back catalog of Folio to see they are not in the same class at all. FS has published more than 2,500 titles over seven decades, across a very wide range of topics in both fiction and non-fiction. I think this puts them solidly in a middle category that's not "small press". They sell high-quality standard editions in the thousands or maybe sometimes tens of thousands of units per title.

It also helps a lot that they don't take "pre-orders" for expensive books, making them more like a traditional bookshop where you walk in, hand over your money and get your book. I think this may be of understated value. It's much more compelling when you can order and get your book shipped immediately, versus waiting months or years to get your book with CTP, Curious King, Suntup etc.

Quite reasonable to see how they can move 1000 units of an extremely popular $2,200 Limited Edition book that ships immediately. There's bound to be at least that number of already existing willing customers that are aware of Folio Society.

>70 wcarter:
I don't have any family members or friends who would be willing to get up at 2am (release time in Australia) just to buy me "another damned book".

>76 Ibkay: your point about all items being in stock when you buy them is a good one. One must be an exceedingly patient collector to be willing to put down the money and wait such a long time with other presses. It is always refreshing when my yearly FS order ships immediately after paying!

I’m sure you’re right about being able to move 1000 copies of GoT due to sheer popularity, though to me it is an amazing amount of money to spend on a book.

>76 Ibkay: Folio's customer base and reach is certainly much larger than say a Suntup, CTP or Curious King. And for good reason.

Yep, by a wide margin -- here's the Instagram numbers:

Folio Society (352,000 followers)
Easton Press (67,300 followers)
Curious King (12,300 followers)
Suntup (7,480 followers)
Conversation Tree Press (2,760 followers)

EDIT: Added Easton Press per request below!

>79 HonorWulf:

Very interesting information, thank you. I had no idea Folio was so dominant in the market. Good!

>76 Ibkay: That's an interesting point, and I agree. I don't think the Folio Society is a small press. While I don't think there's necessarily an exact definition as to what constitutes a "small press", I think we can agree that Suntup, CTP, CK, are all small press. A press like the FS can publish much more than a small press, although I think most would argue the quality you get from a small press is typically unmatched -- although they tend to be substantially more expensive.

>79 HonorWulf: Do you know what the numbers happen to be for Easton Press? I would put EP in the same league as FS, it's not small press either.

>81 astropi: Easton Press is at 67300 followers, so roughly 20% of Folio's.

>82 HonorWulf: The EP LibraryThing group has about 1/3 the number of FS people, so that tracks. Thanks.

>79 HonorWulf: Very surprising to see CK over Suntup and CTP already at half of Suntup. To be fair some of them seem to do a lot more over at Facebook (like Suntup's live events), while FS seems really active on their instagram (lots of teaser posting and speculation bait).
I'm not debating that FS is a behemoth by comparison to be clear, just wondering what numbers would add to the picture.

>84 A.Godhelm: CK’s succes is quite remarkable. I wonder if it comes down to an amazing job of picking more modern, genre books with a fanbase that sell out almost immediately while CTP and Suntup have some more popular title picks but also some older or less popular/accessible ones. I am not on social media except for YouTube so I miss out on most of the marketing, I imagine.

>84 A.Godhelm: Here's the Facebook numbers:

Folio Society (133,000 followers)
Easton Press (113,000 followers)
Suntup (5,900 followers)
Curious King (2,500 followers)
Conversation Tree Press (1,400 followers)

Folio have released this short YouTube clip showing the production process of the leather cover: https://youtube.com/shorts/DZasl-3w9hM?is=AETYZe1JK501oHDf

>87 MisterTrister: Thanks for sharing! I think the cover could be very stunning, depending on how it's completed of course (tooling, etc). In my opinion the real elephant in the room is GRRM himself -- it's legit to ask "what's the point?" if he never plans to finish the books and purposely doesn't want anyone else to complete it either, which apparently is what he's stated.

https://www.ign.com/articles/game-of-thrones-writer-george-rr-martin-says-theres...
Game of Thrones Writer George R.R. Martin Says There's No Plan if He Dies Before Completing Winds of Winter, and the Series Simply 'Won't Be Finished'
"It'll be like The Mystery of Edwin Drood."

>88 astropi: Im not sure that the lack of completion of the series matters especially if this LE is a one off which it may well be. I personally know people who are huge fans of the series—albeit not in the market for a £1500 LE—but are relatively sanguine about the fact its not complete and just enjoy the books that they've gotten. I know a lot of people are frustrated but his fanbase is big enough I have no doubt there are more than enough people who will snap this up (scalpers aside) regardless.

I think I mentioned earlier that my personal interest tailed off in the series after book 3 so I don't have very strong feelings either about the LE or the Winds of Winter. But I don't really find it inexplicably odd that someone might buy an LE if they really like it even if its one book of an incomplete series.

>89 zorg2099: While there are no official statistics, it sounds like the majority of GoT fans are quite upset that he has made no progress and shows no interest in finishing the series. That said, as you pointed out there are many fans of the franchise, so it may ultimately not make a difference for this LE.

>90 astropi: Those are probably the noisiest ones - the unhappy ones. The rest probably don’t care to keep repeating how indifferent they are at every single opportunity.

A longer YouTube clip, this time showing more of the production process and the finished product, including the concealed linen map: https://youtu.be/zaLSU_GD21Y?is=92aw1GMmJ0SNeFM8

I thought I would definitely be buying this when it was first announced with few details other than dragon skin leather. Since a more fuller description has emerged, I am having less FOMO. The positives are it looks like a beautiful production with some unique features and, since it is hand bound, there (hopefully) will be no QC problems that have plagued other recent LEs. The negatives are (a) the price, even without the ROW price gouge (b) the same artwork as the standard edition, (c) bound in one volume instead of two, and (d) the author seems unlikely to finish the series.

From what I can see from online chatter, including this site, the reaction is generally lukewarm to negative, even though the consensus seems to be it will sell out quickly because of the large fan base. If it at least had additional or different artwork that probably would have tipped the scales for me. Nevertheless, I still remain tempted because it looks like a fine example of physical book arts.

>93 amp123:

The art and the price are a main factor here. The art didn't wow me enough to spend this kind of money and wouldn't even if there were more of it. And the price, especially for ROW, would need something that really wows me, so there you go.

>93 amp123: It certainly looks beautiful in my opinion. I believe the USA price is $2200 (what's the ROW price?) That means if they publish all 5 volumes you're looking at around $11,000 if not more. We can all agree that is a lot of money. Also, as you noted, the fact that GRRM is unlikely to finish his epic is a real letdown. And of course not having any new artwork is really asinine at this price -- apparently the Folio Society believes it won't matter and this will sell like hotcakes -- they may be right.

>93 amp123: (c) was the deciding factor for me. I like the binding a lot, probably because of the perpetual adolescent genre-fiction fanboy in me, but it isn't enough to offset the massive downgrade to one volume from two. For the price, I can't see where the value is above the standard edition. Rebinding the standard edition is always an option.

I almost never buy a subsequent upgrade LE from the earlier SE--but I'll be buying this one. It's all in the binding. I am still regretting passing on the LE of Samuel Johnson's Dictionary. And it was the binding then, too.

Pray for the poor flippers who'll soon buy the LE and attempt to sell at inflated prices. They may end up sitting on those copies for some time.

>99 Shotcaller: They’ll return their copies if they don’t sell, and those copies will end up in the Vault eventually. Scalpers have it easy with Folio.

>100 Nerevarine: Return claiming they're damageed?

>101 Shotcaller: Folio has a four week return policy regardless of reason.

>101 Shotcaller: No they simply can return it for a refund. From Folio’s T&C :

« If you are not completely satisfied with any book you may return it within four weeks for a replacement, exchange or credit card refund. »

I think about 70 copies of American Psycho appeared in the vault. The last appearance being 50 odd pieces. I presume most were returns by scalpers.

>102 HonorWulf: Ah, interesting.

>96 astropi: Must be the most resounding 'no' vote here in a good long while!

Not exactly flying off the shelves, is it?

EDIT: I take it back. Site now showing over half sold.

>107 Shotcaller: Shows 478 left in stock for me. This is very rapid movement at this price imho.

>108 Ibkay: I ended up editing due to seeing the same.

A few copies available on eBay already.

Well, the going rate on a well-known auction/sales platform is currently around £2500 to £3000, i.e., while there are still copies available from FS.

I see a few listings for $5,000 on eBay. If they had brand new illustrations I would probably purchase it.

>107 Shotcaller: I guess this group (those that voted, at least) is not a representative sample of the market. For the record, I didn't vote but I did order a copy.

I am curious to see how quickly it does sell out because it's a relatively high limitation number and a very high price.

Now showing 287 copies left. Will it sell out in an hour?

>113 Cat_of_Ulthar: I caved and ordered a copy as well. The most expensive single book I've ever purchased. I would never have thought it'd be from Folio of all publishers, but here we are.

Now I'm fervently hoping it does not have the same gilding defect as Moby Dick LE, assuming that was caused only by shipping damage.

Folio had better pack this with magical levitating fairy clouds that cushion any aggressive handling by FedEx as it makes its way across to the pacific northwest in the US.

>115 Ibkay: I wonder if the gilding is done by the printer or the bindery? If its the later then there's reason to have some confidence I think since Ludlow has a stellar reputation.

Edit: I'm assuming here the gilding flaw on Moby Dick is due to factory defects or at least gilding that is more prone to rubbing off than it should be.

>116 zorg2099: The Folio notes show "...Hand bound by Ludlow Bookbinders, Ludlow Gilded edges..."

So this is very good to see. I also expect stellar gilding from Ludlow, they are among the best bookbinders in the business today.

>117 Ibkay: Well I look forward to your impressions especially of the binding when its in hand! This has not been a popular release among the members here but we should get to experience it vicariously through someone at least :P

>100 Nerevarine: Surely if the same person/address account keeps doing it, they could flag and ban them

>118 zorg2099: I'm actually a big fan of G.R.R Martin - I consider him the OG grimdark author I first read (alongside Robin Hobb to a lesser degree and in a more concealed way), before Joe Abercrombie, Mark Lawrence and others really took off with the concept.

Yes, I'll post some pictures as soon as I get the book in my hands, should only be a few days!

Less than 100 copies remaining...

Only 25 left… What a smash! A just sub £2.000.000 day for the Society.

Just managed to order one of the last 40 copies while flying at 35,000 feet over the Indian Ocean. Modern communications are amazing!

Sold out on the USA page

>123 wcarter: Ha! If you had missed this, I would have gladly shipped you my copy at cost if you wanted it! You are the true Folio Society custodian preserving the most complete known collection.

Yep, sold out in 4 hours, 30 minutes!

If I were them, I would definitely be considering finishing this series in the same way. What a day for them.

>122 NLNils: and a likely 7 figure profit!

>125 Ibkay:
Your consideration is appreciated.

I wonder what percentage were scalped, and whether the scalpers will actually make money. If the percentage is high, there will be a lot of returns, methinks, as with other recent LEs.

>102 HonorWulf: pretty new to folio so assume there must be reasons for it, but does this policy not actively enable scalping? Whereas a shorter return period (putting damaged items to one side) would actively discourage it?

I count 12 copies for sale on Ebay at present, at widely varying prices, which is less than for the Moby Dick LE at the same time. More will come out of the woodwork once the books are received.

>131 bfoster1905: Yes. There’s no reason why it should take someone four weeks to decide they are not satisfied. I expect that to change soon, as the FS is becoming more savvy about how their business is run.

>131 bfoster1905: Probably due to international shipping, which can take a good three weeks.

>123 wcarter:
Thrilled you were able to snag a copy! I look forward to your detailed review. I hope you prioritize this title once you’ve had a chance to enjoy it.

Back to 51 left in stock, in case anyone missed out.

That's a lot! Scalpers got cold feet before they shipped out perhaps?

>137 zorg2099: Could also be people were trying to purchase multiple copies, and perhaps even some scammers trying to steal a copy somehow. At any rate, happy people who wanted a copy have had the opportunity. Looks like a few copies have already sold on ebay, and prices ranged from $2500 - 2900. Given that ebay charges 15%, there's really no profit to be had for scalpers right now, which is excellent.

>138 astropi: That's not entirely true. The majority of the books for sale that I can see are from UK sellers and eBay is free for UK sellers.

I caved and got one of the restocked copies - I loved it when I saw it at the sale. Was unsure I’d go for it in the end given as a rule I don’t like large LE boxes, but happy I had an opportunity to consider and not buy in a rush due to FOMO.

I wonder if all copies will have an almost symmetrical, machined-like, dragon skin pattern reminding me of a photo album...?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/366545990161

https://www.ebay.com/itm/227433871836

>139 Masteen: The majority of the books for sale that I can see are from UK sellers and eBay is free for UK sellers.
Wow, I had no idea. Although apparently you do get hit with a final value fee if you sell international, and I assume the books I saw from UK sellers are international orders.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/fees-private-sellers?i...

The fee for UK ebayers selling internationally is only about 3%. And this is when you sell via the Global Shipping Program - which means you as the seller still only ship the item domestically with the UK (to the ebay shipping hub). Ebay then ships the item internationally to the buyer (having charged the buyer a much higher shipping fee as part of the GSP). Otherwise, it's free if selling domestically.

Has Folio announced its next limited edition?

>144 howtoeatrat: The Wasp Factory by Iain Banks

>141 EPsonNY: based on your comment I was expecting the copies to be identical or close to it from embossed patterns, probably stamped from a single die, but actually they are quite different! It's true both have some degree of symmetry, but that's a common goal of most fine leather goods that use exotic patterned leather (just do a web image search for crocodile handbags).

Moderately impressed! With the look of the binding at least.

17 copies on Ebay at present. Not as many as with previous limited editions. May be other venues of sale but about 1.7% of all copies going to scalpers is not too bad. It seems genuine collectors got most copies.

It arrived today. Sorry, no photos, on account of my not owning one of those mobile phone things and my camera needing charging.

It's heavy. It's incredibly well wrapped in one carton inside another carton with a layer of foam rubber stuff which reminds me of a recording studio's walls. If you wanted to do damage to this, you would have to have some serious heavy weaponry.

Unlike previous Folio LEs, there wasn't a handy label on the outside to tell me which number I had got. I had to open up the actual book to see the number next to GRR's signature.

Once you get beyond the packagaing, the book's gorgeous. My binding isn't symmetrical so I guess it's not the same die every time.

It is a lot darker, though, not having the advantage of a photographic studio's lighting system. It doesn't glow in quite the same way it did under the studio lights.

The solander box seems very solid and has a handy compartment for the linen map. Which is also a very nice touch. An actual scroll which you can unroll and lay out.

More than that will have to wait for me to sit down and start reading.

>143 Extrasolarian: Wow, for USA sellers the ebay fee is 15% :/

>149 astropi: As a Brit who is now living in North America, one of the most noticeable things is that there seems to be a fee or extra charge associated with literally everything.

In the UK, there was competition from other reselling sites that forced eBay to abandon selling fees (which were previously around 10% I believe). Now there is a 'buyer protection' fee of a nominal amount of around 2-3% which the buyer pays on top of the seller's asking price (which is the same as the main competition - Vinted). The seller's asking price is always the price the seller receives, and the price the buyer sees includes the nominal fees added on, with a little caption that states how much is the protection fee and how much is the sale price).

>146 abysswalker:

They are stamped from a single die, but a single stamped piece makes more than one book.

What do you think of this? Seems for a book of this price should expect a polished looking limitation label. But not sure what reasonable expectations are. I think the corner of the limitation label was bent to get it to glue in straight.

>152 C---rain: It does look like somebody's been a bit clumsy. The limitation page in my copy is smooth and wrinkle-free.

It's not a major flaw but, as you say, it's a lot of money so it's not unreasonable to be picky.

If it was me, I'd be tempted to ask if Folio would consider discounting the price and making a partial refund but you might prefer a replacement copy.

>152 C---rain: is your limitation label glued to the white page behind it? Mine is completely detached with no glue but a separate page altogether

>154 LTengel: It's glued into the left. My guess is that it was crooked and to make it not stick out it got wedged in harder on the top.

>155 C---rain: got it. I would probably complain if I was you given the price. The way I think about it is if you ever decide to sell, you’d have to either disclose it or deal with a buyer that has the same thought as you

>156 LTengel: I reached out to Folio Society. Their customer service is always great, just didn't want to take advantage of it unreasonably.

>152 C---rain: I received my copy today. The limitation page is perfectly smooth.

I'd reach out to Folio for a potential replacement if I had a similar wrinkle in the limitation label. It's a $2200 book - certainly not asking too much for a smooth page. In any case, I wonder why Folio still refuses to properly bind-in the limitation page of their numbered editions as part of the book like literally every other boutique/small/fine press.

A side note is that the gold gilding on the edges is perfect - it does not have any of the scuffing that plagued the recent Moby Dick LE.

This increases my suspicion that the Moby Dick LE gilding was probably not damaged during shipping, or it's otherwise some inferior type of gilding that is extremely fragile and prone to wear.

>138 astropi: Scammers trying to steal copies somehow? Lol

Received my copy yesterday and was glad I overcame my hesitation and pulled the trigger on this. Simply stunning in every detail and, thankfully, free of defects. This could be considered just an expensive toy for grown-ups who haven't quite grown up. (Genuine dragon skin. Map of make believe world that magically pops up when you lift the secret latch.) Or maybe a sophisticated work of art for book aficionados and collectors. Either way, I'm thrilled to have it.

I noticed that the description of the edition on the last page of the book states that the map is printed on "Neobond" paper, when, as the website correctly states, it's printed on linen. Not exactly sure what Neobond paper is but it appears that after the book was printed FS switched to linen.
Cost cutting measure or upgrade?

>160 amp123: Glad you're happy! It was beyond my price-point, but I'm not surprised it sold out. I'm also not very familiar with "neobond" paper, but I do know it's synthetic, so I think you're right -- cost cutting measure which in my mind would be a downgrade.

Number for sale on Ebay has now gone up to 21. Scalpers are not selling this one quickly.

>162 wcarter: Excellent!

>162 wcarter:

I doubt there will be that many willing to pay over the odds at this price-point. Resale profits are baked into the original price.

>160 amp123:

“I noticed that the description of the edition on the last page of the book states that the map is printed on "Neobond" paper, when, as the website correctly states, it's printed on linen.”

The ‘Production Details/About the Book’ section near the bottom of the product page states ‘full-colour map backed with linen’ so appears not to be ‘printed on linen’, but printed onto a synthetic paper then bonded onto a linen backing which would explain the ‘neobond’ paper (which is a mix of wood pulp & various plastics/glue to create what they call a ‘hybrid paper’ that is resistant to tearing/wear).

>165 antinous_in_london: Thanks for the clarification and info about what Neobond paper is. My map does not seem to have any of the attributes of paper. It feels and looks like the same cloth as a linen handkerchief and folds like cloth. I've read from AI that Neobond paper feels like traditional paper, has the longevity of plastic, and is highly resistant to bending.

Mine feels like linen, not paper, on both the front and back, and not only bends, it folds and when folded rolls up neatly to fit in the narrow case compartment. No discernible plasticity or glue at all. There does not appear to be any backing, just printing on linen, with the identical weave showing through the printing on the front as on unprinted back. So either mine is defective Neobond, or FS has some kind of Neobond paper that looks, feels and folds identical to cloth, which I'd be fine with, or it's just printed linen, which I'd also be fine with. In which case it would appear that they just left the reference to Neobond paper in the text because it wasn't worth the trouble to amend it, which I'm also fine with.

Edit:I'm still not sure how to account for the fact that the "Product Details" says
"Full-colour linen map" (which to me implies it's printed on linen, not merely backed with it) while, as you correctly point out, later on at the bottom it says "backed with linen" (which implies the front is printed on something else, without specifying what that is). Why not just say "Full colour map printed on Neobond paper and backed with linen" if in fact that's what it is?

>166 amp123: I would suggest writing to Folio customer support if you would like a clarification. They have been helpful in the past with questions like this, they will send the request up to the production team (or whoever keeps archival data for older editions in some cases).

>166 amp123: I agree that it feels like linen. It reminded me of a tea towel.

>167 zorg2099: I sent FS customer an email. They thanked me for bringing these discrepancies to their attention but said they would have to run this through their "Head Office" before they could respond and they'll get back to me when that happens.