1LT79-1
Just following on from a conversation on another thread, do any of you own the entire output from a single press? This seems like quite a meaningful thing to do and something, funds permitting, which I think I'll attempt in the future. If you are a press completionist, what drives you to do this and have you gained more insight as a result of your collection?
2wcarter
OK, maybe not considered true fine press by some, but The Folio Society limited editions are superb books.
I am trying to have a complete collection of all Folio Society limited editions.
They have published 147 in the modern series since 2001 and I have all but 14 of them. There are some I will never obtain though including the Jubilee Bible and the Bayeux tapestry scroll.
Before 2001 there were intermittent limited editions produced and I have about half of these.
I am trying to have a complete collection of all Folio Society limited editions.
They have published 147 in the modern series since 2001 and I have all but 14 of them. There are some I will never obtain though including the Jubilee Bible and the Bayeux tapestry scroll.
Before 2001 there were intermittent limited editions produced and I have about half of these.
3Pendrainllwyn
>1 LT79-1: Very satisfying I imagine, but a tough order for press's that publish more than one state. If the bar were every title from a press or every title in a given state from a press then I suspect there may be more qualifying completionists around.
4dlphcoracl
>
The Allen Press (1940-1991).
The Allen Press (1940-1991).
5LT79-1
>3 Pendrainllwyn: I am a little flexible on this. It's more that desire for depth collecting of one press. Whether it's been achieved in reality or is in progress or restricted to books with the exclusion of ephemera, etc. is not the most important thing. But I'm also interested in the collectors who do go to those lengths of collecting everything.
>4 dlphcoracl: that's quite the compliment for Allen Press. Is this more you were ahead of the curve and collected while prices were reasonable or because you regard the Allen Press as quite special in their output?
>4 dlphcoracl: that's quite the compliment for Allen Press. Is this more you were ahead of the curve and collected while prices were reasonable or because you regard the Allen Press as quite special in their output?
7TheTotalLibrarian
I do have 219 out of the 246 ephemeral items listed in the Fleece Press bibliography. I would like to get them all but I'm (relatively) resigned to the collection remaining incomplete. The Christmas cards from the press are causing me significant difficulty. Perhaps they are even more ephemeral than the usual ephemera! FPE2, for example, states 'no surviving example' in All Around The Block.
I have examples in one format or another of about two-thirds of the books from the press, and I continue to pick them up when funds allow.
I have examples in one format or another of about two-thirds of the books from the press, and I continue to pick them up when funds allow.
8ensuen
I collect Tideline Press and Bird & Bull, I'm trying to complete both but the final few for each will be fairly hard to get. Not too stressed about it, which I think is good considering.
I think it gives you a good sense of the presses taste and skill over time, my other collecting interests are fairly broad so it gives a sense of grounding.
I think it gives you a good sense of the presses taste and skill over time, my other collecting interests are fairly broad so it gives a sense of grounding.
9DMulvee
I have the non-miniature books from the Fleece Press.
I don’t collect book in multiple states but I nearly have a complete collection of the works from No Reply. I am missing Preludes (version 1), which as they did this again has sated my appetite, I am also missing ‘Flamingo Heaven’. I have all the broadsides.
I don’t collect book in multiple states but I nearly have a complete collection of the works from No Reply. I am missing Preludes (version 1), which as they did this again has sated my appetite, I am also missing ‘Flamingo Heaven’. I have all the broadsides.
10kdweber
I believe I own or have ordered all of the books from the No Reply Press with the exception of the first chapbook, Jack.
11ns21
Interesting question!
I, too, have wondered at the reasons for collecting all the output of a particular press and whether there is anything more to it than the thrill of the hunt or a personal tribute to a particular press one admires (not that those are unworthy objectives), unless the press predominantly publishes poetry or literature that cannot be found elsewhere.
Some members have mentioned that collecting all of a press's work allows insights about a printer and his craft/sensibilities over time. Would anyone be willing to share what sort of things one has learned about a press in this way? I ask with genuine curiosity, not as a challenge!
And I wonder if it remains valuable in the modern era of book making where many presses send email newsletters and publish a list of their works online, describing the design and even provide background for the projects. Not that I would dare equate seeing a book online to actually holding it, but one can get an idea of what the press is doing, the directions the printer/maker has taken over time, etc.
I, too, have wondered at the reasons for collecting all the output of a particular press and whether there is anything more to it than the thrill of the hunt or a personal tribute to a particular press one admires (not that those are unworthy objectives), unless the press predominantly publishes poetry or literature that cannot be found elsewhere.
Some members have mentioned that collecting all of a press's work allows insights about a printer and his craft/sensibilities over time. Would anyone be willing to share what sort of things one has learned about a press in this way? I ask with genuine curiosity, not as a challenge!
And I wonder if it remains valuable in the modern era of book making where many presses send email newsletters and publish a list of their works online, describing the design and even provide background for the projects. Not that I would dare equate seeing a book online to actually holding it, but one can get an idea of what the press is doing, the directions the printer/maker has taken over time, etc.
12Shotcaller
I don't all the works of any press but I can certainly see the appeal, especially if you happen to start collecting a particular press early in its lifetime. Certain presses you just trust. While I don't own everything St. James Park Press has put out, I'd like to; James's choice of titles and genius for design very much appeal to me.
13jbrnewman
I am a far cry from a completionist. I tend to collect and seek out only books that I know I will revisit and I do not have enough appreciation of the craft of pressmen (and women) to own a book solely to admire their work. To say nothing of the expense of the habit.
However, I do have almost all of the books published by Bob Baris at his Press on Scroll Road (less only four or five). I do not own any of the miniature books he published at Wind & Harlot Press, but I may eventually acquire one or two. I am only missing three of the books that I would like to add to my library.
I also own the majority of the books that Andrew Moorhouse produced at Fine Press Poetry (although certainly not in every state). There are only one or two that I hope to eventually purchase (as soon as I can find them, in all actuality).
While I own nowhere near half the books produced by Whittington Press, those books represent the greatest number of output that I own from a single press. I recently purchased what will likely be my final book from Whittington, and feel somewhat sad about no longer having to chase the Randle's work.
However, I do have almost all of the books published by Bob Baris at his Press on Scroll Road (less only four or five). I do not own any of the miniature books he published at Wind & Harlot Press, but I may eventually acquire one or two. I am only missing three of the books that I would like to add to my library.
I also own the majority of the books that Andrew Moorhouse produced at Fine Press Poetry (although certainly not in every state). There are only one or two that I hope to eventually purchase (as soon as I can find them, in all actuality).
While I own nowhere near half the books produced by Whittington Press, those books represent the greatest number of output that I own from a single press. I recently purchased what will likely be my final book from Whittington, and feel somewhat sad about no longer having to chase the Randle's work.
14jbrnewman
Hopefully, we will hear from Bill Woodbridge as his opinions on this topic did quite a bit to inform my own.
15yikou
Like >8 ensuen:, I am also on team Bird & Bull – and hopefully we will not have to compete against each other for those that show up rarely. :D To keep my own sanity in check, my complete list does not include ephemera or publications that were not meant for general consumption, nor books printed for others.
I would also like a complete run of books by David Kheladzé (a French-Georgian publisher from the 30s & 40s), but I am not actually sure to what extent his oeuvre qualifies as fine press. Some editions certainly are, but I have only seen a small handful come on the market, so it is hard to say to what extent that applies against the whole body of his work.
I would also like a complete run of books by David Kheladzé (a French-Georgian publisher from the 30s & 40s), but I am not actually sure to what extent his oeuvre qualifies as fine press. Some editions certainly are, but I have only seen a small handful come on the market, so it is hard to say to what extent that applies against the whole body of his work.
16BillWoodbridge
>14 jbrnewman: Sorry, I’m a bit late to the party on this one although the topic is certainly up my street. But thanks for the invite!
At the risk of repeating the gist of a previous post from the Shelfies thread, I always like to see some structure in my personal collecting interests, at least within particular presses, and I’m generally uncomfortable with a scattergun ‘cabinet of curiosities’ approach, even if it results in a clutch of fantastic (but unrelated) books. I think it’s mainly due to a science/engineering background and love of organisation generally. Certainly the thrill of the chase also comes into it, plus the satisfaction of ticking off a long-standing box on the spreadsheet (or, in my chosen notation, changing the limitation number from red to black) and the reassuring feeling of ‘this press can do no wrong’. The trouble is, no press can do no wrong so acquiring 'weaker' books, and occasionally outright duds, simply for structural purposes can sometimes feel rather foolish. I guess I could also claim a little of the idea of being able to trace the evolution of a press, but I wouldn’t want to overstate that comparatively scholarly pursuit as a motivation.
Then I guess ‘completion’ represents ‘structure’ taken to the limit. So whereas, for example, for Doves Press I have some structure in that I collect just poetry (a rather arbitrary division, but perhaps justified by being a categorisation that Cobden-Sanderson himself made, plus the old chestnut that for Doves, when you see one, you’ve seen them all anyway), there are three presses where I aim for ‘true’ completion against some predefined scope: Stanbrook Abbey Press, Gwasg Gregynog and the Raamin-Presse.
But, to digress, what is completion anyway? ‘Entire output’ is a high bar! And is never as black and white as it seems. The complete publications? Plus the complete commissions (if any)? Plus the complete ephemera? All versions/limitations/states of everything? And so it goes on. Even if all that seems to be under control, how certain can we be that the official bibliographic record (assuming it exists) is free of lacunae? Even worse, what if there is no recognised bibliography? To coin a phrase, ‘we don’t know what we don’t know’. Then one could argue a truly scholarly collection should also aim for secondary material and, most esoteric of all, unique material: archival material from the press itself, correspondence (ALS etc), dedication copies ….
So, as an illustrative example in (perhaps excruciating) detail, here’s the picture for the Stanbrook Abbey Press. Note that despite my claim of 'completion', like most SAP collectors I actually disregard the first eighty years of the press's existence!
________________________________________
Scope: SAP books, booklets, illuminated folders and ephemera from the revival period under Dame Hildelith Cumming from 1956 to 1990 as listed in David Butcher’s bibliography The Stanbrook Abbey Press 1956-1990.
Complete in respect of the books and booklets published by the Press during that period, and ‘almost complete’ against Butcher’s categories for other printed items. In detail, of the six different categories listed by Butcher, the completion statistics are as follows:
Category A (Stanbrook Abbey Press publications): 39 out of 39 titles plus 17 out of 17 prospectuses
Category B (Commissioned Works): 41 out of 43 titles plus 3 out of 5 prospectuses
Category C (Illuminated Folders): 22 out of 24 titles
Category D (Minor Publications): 25 out of 27 titles
Category E (Price Lists): 20 out of 25 titles
Category F (Unfinished Works): 2 out of 3 titles (represented by proof pages)
Many books in the A and B categories were issued in special editions and other variant limitations in addition to their ‘ordinary’ editions, including the issue of sheets for one-off bindings. By this measure the collection is again ‘almost complete’ with respect to all of these multiple variants. Allowing a little judgement in disregarding the most trivial variations (for example, the execution of illuminated initials by different scribes) out of a total of 81 variants recorded by Butcher (including the ‘ordinaries’ themselves) across the 39 titles of the A list, the collection has examples of 79, the missing two items both being examples of ’sheets for binding’ limitations. Similarly for the B list of Commissioned Works, out of a total of 62 variants spread across the 43 titles, the collection has examples of 58.
The collection is then enhanced by many examples of still more minor variants (40 additional items spanning the A – F lists, several not recorded by Butcher) plus various inserts and ephemera associated with A – F list items (a further 38 items, again with some not recorded by Butcher).
Beyond these ‘Butcher' lists, the collection has a total of 88 items printed by SAP which were intentionally out of scope for the Bibliography, whether by reason of their date (ie pre- or post-dating SHC’s period) or their nature (eg jobbing printing). These range from the highly significant (eg a fully-illuminated copy of the 1887 Regula S. Patris Benedicti) through to the most trivial ephemera (eg address labels).
Amongst the secondary material are over 60 original ALS and TLS from Dame Hildelith to various correspondents, and a small set of actual Stanbrook printing materiel including a complete forme of type from the penultimate SAP publication. Other secondary material includes the set of all four binding variants of the Bibliography (Editions A – C plus the ‘ordinary’), and the majority of SAP exhibition catalogues and other bibliographic material.
________________________________________
I’ll save Gwasg Gregynog (which has significant bibliographic problems) and Raamin-Presse (which doesn’t) for another day!
At the risk of repeating the gist of a previous post from the Shelfies thread, I always like to see some structure in my personal collecting interests, at least within particular presses, and I’m generally uncomfortable with a scattergun ‘cabinet of curiosities’ approach, even if it results in a clutch of fantastic (but unrelated) books. I think it’s mainly due to a science/engineering background and love of organisation generally. Certainly the thrill of the chase also comes into it, plus the satisfaction of ticking off a long-standing box on the spreadsheet (or, in my chosen notation, changing the limitation number from red to black) and the reassuring feeling of ‘this press can do no wrong’. The trouble is, no press can do no wrong so acquiring 'weaker' books, and occasionally outright duds, simply for structural purposes can sometimes feel rather foolish. I guess I could also claim a little of the idea of being able to trace the evolution of a press, but I wouldn’t want to overstate that comparatively scholarly pursuit as a motivation.
Then I guess ‘completion’ represents ‘structure’ taken to the limit. So whereas, for example, for Doves Press I have some structure in that I collect just poetry (a rather arbitrary division, but perhaps justified by being a categorisation that Cobden-Sanderson himself made, plus the old chestnut that for Doves, when you see one, you’ve seen them all anyway), there are three presses where I aim for ‘true’ completion against some predefined scope: Stanbrook Abbey Press, Gwasg Gregynog and the Raamin-Presse.
But, to digress, what is completion anyway? ‘Entire output’ is a high bar! And is never as black and white as it seems. The complete publications? Plus the complete commissions (if any)? Plus the complete ephemera? All versions/limitations/states of everything? And so it goes on. Even if all that seems to be under control, how certain can we be that the official bibliographic record (assuming it exists) is free of lacunae? Even worse, what if there is no recognised bibliography? To coin a phrase, ‘we don’t know what we don’t know’. Then one could argue a truly scholarly collection should also aim for secondary material and, most esoteric of all, unique material: archival material from the press itself, correspondence (ALS etc), dedication copies ….
So, as an illustrative example in (perhaps excruciating) detail, here’s the picture for the Stanbrook Abbey Press. Note that despite my claim of 'completion', like most SAP collectors I actually disregard the first eighty years of the press's existence!
________________________________________
Scope: SAP books, booklets, illuminated folders and ephemera from the revival period under Dame Hildelith Cumming from 1956 to 1990 as listed in David Butcher’s bibliography The Stanbrook Abbey Press 1956-1990.
Complete in respect of the books and booklets published by the Press during that period, and ‘almost complete’ against Butcher’s categories for other printed items. In detail, of the six different categories listed by Butcher, the completion statistics are as follows:
Category A (Stanbrook Abbey Press publications): 39 out of 39 titles plus 17 out of 17 prospectuses
Category B (Commissioned Works): 41 out of 43 titles plus 3 out of 5 prospectuses
Category C (Illuminated Folders): 22 out of 24 titles
Category D (Minor Publications): 25 out of 27 titles
Category E (Price Lists): 20 out of 25 titles
Category F (Unfinished Works): 2 out of 3 titles (represented by proof pages)
Many books in the A and B categories were issued in special editions and other variant limitations in addition to their ‘ordinary’ editions, including the issue of sheets for one-off bindings. By this measure the collection is again ‘almost complete’ with respect to all of these multiple variants. Allowing a little judgement in disregarding the most trivial variations (for example, the execution of illuminated initials by different scribes) out of a total of 81 variants recorded by Butcher (including the ‘ordinaries’ themselves) across the 39 titles of the A list, the collection has examples of 79, the missing two items both being examples of ’sheets for binding’ limitations. Similarly for the B list of Commissioned Works, out of a total of 62 variants spread across the 43 titles, the collection has examples of 58.
The collection is then enhanced by many examples of still more minor variants (40 additional items spanning the A – F lists, several not recorded by Butcher) plus various inserts and ephemera associated with A – F list items (a further 38 items, again with some not recorded by Butcher).
Beyond these ‘Butcher' lists, the collection has a total of 88 items printed by SAP which were intentionally out of scope for the Bibliography, whether by reason of their date (ie pre- or post-dating SHC’s period) or their nature (eg jobbing printing). These range from the highly significant (eg a fully-illuminated copy of the 1887 Regula S. Patris Benedicti) through to the most trivial ephemera (eg address labels).
Amongst the secondary material are over 60 original ALS and TLS from Dame Hildelith to various correspondents, and a small set of actual Stanbrook printing materiel including a complete forme of type from the penultimate SAP publication. Other secondary material includes the set of all four binding variants of the Bibliography (Editions A – C plus the ‘ordinary’), and the majority of SAP exhibition catalogues and other bibliographic material.
________________________________________
I’ll save Gwasg Gregynog (which has significant bibliographic problems) and Raamin-Presse (which doesn’t) for another day!
18What_What
>2 wcarter: Congratulations! I hope you are able to find the remaining books.
19MyrddinWyllt
>2 wcarter: Any regrets on not going for the scroll?
20wcarter
>17 greenwald1:
The stand-out LEs are 1001 Nights (reviewed HERE), Queen Mary Atlas (reviewed HERE) and Tractatus de Herbis (reviewed HERE). I suppose Wev'e Always Lived in the Castle (pictures HERE) is the least liked LE.
>18 What_What:
I will never be able to get them all, particularly the Jubilee Bible and the Bayeux Scroll.
>19 MyrddinWyllt:
I was tempted, but it was very expensive, not a book and really pretty useless.
The stand-out LEs are 1001 Nights (reviewed HERE), Queen Mary Atlas (reviewed HERE) and Tractatus de Herbis (reviewed HERE). I suppose Wev'e Always Lived in the Castle (pictures HERE) is the least liked LE.
>18 What_What:
I will never be able to get them all, particularly the Jubilee Bible and the Bayeux Scroll.
>19 MyrddinWyllt:
I was tempted, but it was very expensive, not a book and really pretty useless.
21LT79-1
>16 BillWoodbridge:
"I’m generally uncomfortable with a scattergun ‘cabinet of curiosities'"
There's a lot to be said for that, having structure in your collecting in general. I get the feeling with many book people they've read everything and nothing. Picking out random books like it's a candy shop. With collecting one press or having a focus in your home library there is more of a commitment to deeper rather than shallow learning. For example seeing the technical and creative development of one press or focusing on nature writing. My own general feeling is to have structure and focus but throw in the odd surprise here and there.
"I’m generally uncomfortable with a scattergun ‘cabinet of curiosities'"
There's a lot to be said for that, having structure in your collecting in general. I get the feeling with many book people they've read everything and nothing. Picking out random books like it's a candy shop. With collecting one press or having a focus in your home library there is more of a commitment to deeper rather than shallow learning. For example seeing the technical and creative development of one press or focusing on nature writing. My own general feeling is to have structure and focus but throw in the odd surprise here and there.
22ChestnutPress
While completionism in fine press (getting every variant and piece of ephemera) is all-but impossible, I do have three almost complete specific collections: Gruffyground and Greenboathouse for presses, and also the fine press output of Dana Gioia.
Very brief reasons for why I collect are as follows:
Gruffyground is my most complete — with nearly every variant of everything ever produced — collected for such great-quality, wide-ranging work.
Greenboathouse is my favourite press, particularly from an aesthetic point of view.
Dana Gioia is my favourite living author and I have a very near-complete collection of every fine press piece of his.
Very brief reasons for why I collect are as follows:
Gruffyground is my most complete — with nearly every variant of everything ever produced — collected for such great-quality, wide-ranging work.
Greenboathouse is my favourite press, particularly from an aesthetic point of view.
Dana Gioia is my favourite living author and I have a very near-complete collection of every fine press piece of his.
23DenimDan
Although I will occasionally buy one the odd volume here and there, I almost exclusively collect the work of two presses/artists: Perishable Press (Walter Hamady) and Emanon Press (Debra Weier). The latter is an easier task, with Weier's having released about a half-dozen editioned books, although I try to acquire her one-of-a-kinds as they appear on the market. I also collect her etchings and collages.
A truly complete collection of the Perishable Press, on the other hand, is more of a long-term goal. Of its 131 books, I think I have at least 75. I have no idea how much ephemera was produced by the press, although that's not my primary interest. For some time, I wouldn't purchase any of the cost-prohibitive titles if I had access to them via one of the nearby special collections. That self-imposed rule broke down a couple years ago, though, when I purchased Gabberjabb #6. Now, I have a short list of titles that I would automatically purchase if/when they become available; a list of those that are available that I will buy within __ months; and a list of those that I am not actively pursuing, regardless of availability or cost. I suppose if I keep at it, someday I will have a complete run of PP titles, which would be cool. But for the most part, I really just want to acquire those books that interest me, that I couldn't bear to live without.
I find that focusing on one press has been much more fulfilling than the scattershot approach I used to employ. For one, I love research, and the PP catalog is just one big research puzzle. That and I think Hamady was of such inestimable importance to fine press in America that it's worth seeing what he was up to for 40 years.
A truly complete collection of the Perishable Press, on the other hand, is more of a long-term goal. Of its 131 books, I think I have at least 75. I have no idea how much ephemera was produced by the press, although that's not my primary interest. For some time, I wouldn't purchase any of the cost-prohibitive titles if I had access to them via one of the nearby special collections. That self-imposed rule broke down a couple years ago, though, when I purchased Gabberjabb #6. Now, I have a short list of titles that I would automatically purchase if/when they become available; a list of those that are available that I will buy within __ months; and a list of those that I am not actively pursuing, regardless of availability or cost. I suppose if I keep at it, someday I will have a complete run of PP titles, which would be cool. But for the most part, I really just want to acquire those books that interest me, that I couldn't bear to live without.
I find that focusing on one press has been much more fulfilling than the scattershot approach I used to employ. For one, I love research, and the PP catalog is just one big research puzzle. That and I think Hamady was of such inestimable importance to fine press in America that it's worth seeing what he was up to for 40 years.
24Shadekeep
There are presses that I own a good portion of their corpus from - No Reply, Incline, Tudor Black, Sutton Hoo, Red Plate, Mandeville - but no press of significant output that I own everything from. Only truly complete on presses which have just a few works out at the moment, like Awen and Ellen Martin-Friel.
25DMulvee
Actually if non-fine press is allowed then I have the full Everyman Wodehouse (99 volumes), as well as the Everyman Library (1991 onwards), which currently has about 450 volumes.
26LT79-1
>22 ChestnutPress: I've particularly enjoyed the Greenboathouse Press title pages you posted on the title page thread. Beautiful title pages are the mark of a great designer.
>23 DenimDan: Hamady is one of those characters I can totally understand attracting a completionist following. He seems to be one of those love him or hate him types. But if you love him there's a lot to dive into. If you love his work is it even possible to stop at one book!
>25 DMulvee: in a similar way, I can't help but collect the Loeb classical library books when I see them in charity shops.
>23 DenimDan: Hamady is one of those characters I can totally understand attracting a completionist following. He seems to be one of those love him or hate him types. But if you love him there's a lot to dive into. If you love his work is it even possible to stop at one book!
>25 DMulvee: in a similar way, I can't help but collect the Loeb classical library books when I see them in charity shops.
27BillWoodbridge
>20 wcarter: Re. the Scroll: I'm always uneasy ruling out a book from completion scope on the grounds of being very expensive (although obviously that's sometimes unavoidable, most regrettably with the biggest prizes of the classic private press world, viz. Kelmscott Chaucer, Ashendene folio Dante and Doves Press English Bible). Similarly 'pretty useless' is a fair description of several books, but not a logical reason for exclusion. But the final attribute of 'not a book' is surely the clincher which would allow even the most fanatical completist to ignore it!
>21 LT79-1:. "... structure and focus but throw in the odd surprise here and there."
That's exactly the approach that suits me best overall. I admit to having a small miscellaneous high-spots category, so (for example) I don't have to shun the Bruce Rogers Odyssey while searching for my fifth variant of Liturgical Music in Benedictine Monasticism, Volume 1.
>25 DMulvee: Re. non-fine press: I have a very soft spot for the Franco Maria Ricci ‘Signs of Man’ series although I have fewer than 20% of the titles, and I guess I have an ambition for completion although it’s fairly low priority. There was a major glut on the market around 15 years ago, I think due to new old stock being found or released, and I wish I’d bought more titles when prices were low.
And that in turn was spawned by an enthusiasm for Luigi Serafini and the Codex Seraphinianus, first published in the FMR Signs of Man series in 1981. The ‘weirdest book in the world’ and for many years an obscure cult-like book with very little known about Serafini himself, but now all over the internet. I do try for completion on different editions of the Codex (latterly published by Rizzoli) and other titles written or illustrated by Serafini, but it’s now become rather a cash cow for them with barely-justifiable anniversary editions produced with depressing regularity, unfortunately.
>26 LT79-1: The Loeb Classical Library has always fascinated me as a completist's Everest! (I have none, I hasten to add). How many titles were / are there, roughly?
>21 LT79-1:. "... structure and focus but throw in the odd surprise here and there."
That's exactly the approach that suits me best overall. I admit to having a small miscellaneous high-spots category, so (for example) I don't have to shun the Bruce Rogers Odyssey while searching for my fifth variant of Liturgical Music in Benedictine Monasticism, Volume 1.
>25 DMulvee: Re. non-fine press: I have a very soft spot for the Franco Maria Ricci ‘Signs of Man’ series although I have fewer than 20% of the titles, and I guess I have an ambition for completion although it’s fairly low priority. There was a major glut on the market around 15 years ago, I think due to new old stock being found or released, and I wish I’d bought more titles when prices were low.
And that in turn was spawned by an enthusiasm for Luigi Serafini and the Codex Seraphinianus, first published in the FMR Signs of Man series in 1981. The ‘weirdest book in the world’ and for many years an obscure cult-like book with very little known about Serafini himself, but now all over the internet. I do try for completion on different editions of the Codex (latterly published by Rizzoli) and other titles written or illustrated by Serafini, but it’s now become rather a cash cow for them with barely-justifiable anniversary editions produced with depressing regularity, unfortunately.
>26 LT79-1: The Loeb Classical Library has always fascinated me as a completist's Everest! (I have none, I hasten to add). How many titles were / are there, roughly?
28Another_Bibliomane
The closest I come to “completism” is my HP Lovecraft collection; I have copies of every letterpress edition of his work that I am aware of, starting with the pre-Arkham titles, all of the Arkhams (excluding the posthumous “collaborations” with Derleth), and the various fine press editions of the last decade or so. My first fine press of any kind was the Shelter Bookworks “Colour Out of Space” which led me down the rabbit hole. My collecting on the fine press front is more of the “cabinet of wonders” approach, since I stick to weird and horror fiction for the most part.
I have a large-ish collection of Frankensteiniana and Dracula/ vampire fiction but only a subset of that is fine press.
I have a large-ish collection of Frankensteiniana and Dracula/ vampire fiction but only a subset of that is fine press.
29LT79-1
>27 BillWoodbridge: I've collected around 120 and I think there are around 500, although I'm not sure of the exact number. They are starting to form a wall of red and green in my living room. It's ridiculous really as I'll never read them all but they are great little reference books to dip into. I've never actually heard of a collector with the full collection although I'm sure they exist.
Just out of curiosity, are you mainly an online bookseller or do you have a physical bookshop?
>28 Another_Bibliomane: I think it's a good time to be a letterpress Lovecraft collector. Also that's another thing I think would be quite satisfying, collecting all the fine press editions of a particular author. Again, there's a kind of depth to seeing all possible variations of designs and approaches to the author.
Just out of curiosity, are you mainly an online bookseller or do you have a physical bookshop?
>28 Another_Bibliomane: I think it's a good time to be a letterpress Lovecraft collector. Also that's another thing I think would be quite satisfying, collecting all the fine press editions of a particular author. Again, there's a kind of depth to seeing all possible variations of designs and approaches to the author.
30ChestnutPress
>26 LT79-1: Jason is an exceptional designer, which is one of the main reasons that I collect his output. His typography is impeccable and I love his usually-bespoke printing palette.
31BillWoodbridge
>29 LT79-1: Wow! Impressive. What a pairing that would make along with that other red/green monument, the Folio Society letterpress Shakespeare ('only' 39 volumes, but each one colossal).
Thanks for asking - I’m online-only. So if I’m allowed a short commercial break:
Hurry hurry hurry to Woodbridge Rare Books for all your rare book requirements!
End of commercial break. Hope that didn't break any rules.
Thanks for asking - I’m online-only. So if I’m allowed a short commercial break:
Hurry hurry hurry to Woodbridge Rare Books for all your rare book requirements!
End of commercial break. Hope that didn't break any rules.
32jbrnewman
>22 ChestnutPress: I will add that I am something of a completionist when it comes to Wendell Berry. Apart from broadsides (of which I still have many but I do not seek them out), I have all but one of every fine/private press publication issued of his work. I also have every first trade edition of books he's published save one.
33greenwald1
>9 DMulvee: same (or getting there) with No Reply, though unintentionally. Up to 21/32 books and a bunch of chapbooks/broadsides. I got started with the SF trilogy so there’s still a lot of earlier editions I’d like to add but can’t find (particularly Preludes).
Generally speaking, I’ll never be a completionist bc it would always result in owning at least a few books that I actively dislike. NRP titles just naturally fit my interests more than any other press.
Generally speaking, I’ll never be a completionist bc it would always result in owning at least a few books that I actively dislike. NRP titles just naturally fit my interests more than any other press.
34Shotcaller
I believe I’ll soon have every release of Meadowrue Press.
35grifgon
>34 Shotcaller: Don't neglect to let us know which Meadowrue edition is your favorite (and least favorite).
36Shotcaller
>35 grifgon: You know, I’m partial to the Melville. But the Melville, eh…
37filox
I have all the books by Consensus Press, so i guess you could say I'm a pretty serious collector.
39duncjl
>15 yikou: Another benefit of excluding books printed by B & B for other parties, is that you will never have to give house room to a copy of Ill Seen, Ill Said; perhaps the biggest load of tosh I've ever read (thankfully in the first edition rather than Lord John's).
40Glacierman
>37 filox: It is to laugh!
41sanvito
>16 BillWoodbridge: would love to hear your thoughts on the Raamin-presse. Big admirer of Quadflieg’s designs, recalling at most a couple other presses who walk that line between livre d’artiste and feasibly obtainable fine press, but with a synthesis of modern aesthetics and historical design.
42BillWoodbridge
>41 sanvito: Delighted you should ask! I’ve mentioned Raamin a couple of times here, once on the ‘What presses deserve more love?’ thread, and the silence was deafening. Which at least proves the point that Raamin certainly isn’t getting much love at the moment, if not quite my own opinion that it does indeed deserve more love. It was John Ryder's article in Matrix 10 (see below), in particular its praise of the Strindberg Gespenstersouper, which got me enthused to begin a Raamin journey (Raamin-fahrt?). What were the other presses that you thought of in conjunction with Raamin?
If you’ll forgive a little repetition from those previous contributions, it’s probably easiest to copy the blurb from my own collection listing.
_______________________________________
Roswitha Quadflieg’s Raamin-Presse created twenty-eight books during the thirty years of its existence. Comparatively little-known in English-speaking private press circles, Raamin Press books can perhaps be best characterized by the use of a profusion of different typefaces (ancient and modern), papers and illustrative techniques. A judicious selection of these are then closely juxtaposed within the same book, sometimes with an innovative aspect to its physical construction such as french-folding or overlaying of one paper type onto another. Blind-work, ie embossing without inking, whether of text or image, is another typical characteristic and is always done to an exacting standard of precision.
Although some of the resultant contrasts are startling, these elements are assembled within such a rigorous overall design logic (and a superlative level of quality in execution) that they entirely avoid the danger of a complete free-for-all, and the books instead become ‘stunningly restrained’ – harmonious and almost austere. One feels that Cobden-Sanderson might have approved of these very modern books. Certainly John Ryder, no stranger to typographic rigour, was fulsome in his praise of ‘unity and simplicity of the subtlest kind’ (Matrix 10, Whittington Press 1990).
The Raamin Press operated on the purest private press principles, Quadflieg alone determining the selection of texts (which although always significant, entirely avoid repetition of the usual classic choices for private press treatment) and also acting as the sole designer, printer and artist/illustrator for all of her books. Only the bindings were outsourced to the excellent and sympathetic work of Christian Zwang of Hamburg (amusingly Quadflieg claimed to have chosen Zwang because he was the first bookbinder she encountered on browsing back-to-front through the local telephone directory). She worked in techniques as diverse as woodcut, wood-engraving, etching, linocut and various uses of plastic and resin, often mixing these media in the context of a single image. Overall, the images are characterised by fine attention to detail and a palette centred on blue, brown and muted reds. Often elements from images will be re-used but printed by different methods including line silhouette, monochrome halftone screen or full polychrome engraving from the blocks.
The Raamin Press represents perhaps the closest approach to livres d’artiste in the collection, albeit in a quite radical form. Perhaps the nearest equivalents in the English private press tradition are the creations of Morris Cox (Gogmagog) or J G Lubbock.
________________________________________________
Collection-wise, I’ve achieved a reasonable definition of completion, namely an example of each of the 28 titles, six of which are the more luxurious limitations (with one exception, these were simply issued with extra sets of prints rather than any other differences compared to the ‘ordinaries’). Two books were issued in both German and English editions, and of those I only have the German. There is one bibliographic wrinkle, in that the official numbering of the Press's books is divided into two 'series'. The first ended with No. 25 Die zwanzig Dichter der Raamin-Presse (1998). Publications then recommenced in 1999 with the 'new series' (neuen Reihe) of three books beginning with Ohne uns. Ein Totengespräch, making 28 books in total. I don't know the reason for the restart of numbering, although the retrospective and summarising nature of the Zwanzig Dichter may point to an initial intention to mark this as the final book of the Press. I corresponded with Frau Quadflieg once, who was very kind in answering my nerdy collector’s question regarding slipcases of the early books, but I regret not asking her about the more significant matter of what prompted the ‘restart’. Was it a desire to draw an artistic line between the old and the new (they are rather different stylistically) or simply a reconsidered urge to continue beyond the previously-planned endpoint?
As a collector, I’ve found prices vary wildly – far more so than any other fine press, ancient or modern, in my experience. There are some real bargains to be found for the quality, in my opinion, but it needs a lot of spreadsheet work. There are two very ‘difficult’ books: the near-impossible Was der Tabakschuppen verbarg (23 copies) and the impossible Bulemanns Haus (15 copies). I had to buy a complete collection to secure the latter, and unfortunately my own collection was already halfway to completion by that point, necessitating the disposal of many duplicates. But at least it presented an opportunity for condition and variant upgrades!
If you’ll forgive a little repetition from those previous contributions, it’s probably easiest to copy the blurb from my own collection listing.
_______________________________________
Roswitha Quadflieg’s Raamin-Presse created twenty-eight books during the thirty years of its existence. Comparatively little-known in English-speaking private press circles, Raamin Press books can perhaps be best characterized by the use of a profusion of different typefaces (ancient and modern), papers and illustrative techniques. A judicious selection of these are then closely juxtaposed within the same book, sometimes with an innovative aspect to its physical construction such as french-folding or overlaying of one paper type onto another. Blind-work, ie embossing without inking, whether of text or image, is another typical characteristic and is always done to an exacting standard of precision.
Although some of the resultant contrasts are startling, these elements are assembled within such a rigorous overall design logic (and a superlative level of quality in execution) that they entirely avoid the danger of a complete free-for-all, and the books instead become ‘stunningly restrained’ – harmonious and almost austere. One feels that Cobden-Sanderson might have approved of these very modern books. Certainly John Ryder, no stranger to typographic rigour, was fulsome in his praise of ‘unity and simplicity of the subtlest kind’ (Matrix 10, Whittington Press 1990).
The Raamin Press operated on the purest private press principles, Quadflieg alone determining the selection of texts (which although always significant, entirely avoid repetition of the usual classic choices for private press treatment) and also acting as the sole designer, printer and artist/illustrator for all of her books. Only the bindings were outsourced to the excellent and sympathetic work of Christian Zwang of Hamburg (amusingly Quadflieg claimed to have chosen Zwang because he was the first bookbinder she encountered on browsing back-to-front through the local telephone directory). She worked in techniques as diverse as woodcut, wood-engraving, etching, linocut and various uses of plastic and resin, often mixing these media in the context of a single image. Overall, the images are characterised by fine attention to detail and a palette centred on blue, brown and muted reds. Often elements from images will be re-used but printed by different methods including line silhouette, monochrome halftone screen or full polychrome engraving from the blocks.
The Raamin Press represents perhaps the closest approach to livres d’artiste in the collection, albeit in a quite radical form. Perhaps the nearest equivalents in the English private press tradition are the creations of Morris Cox (Gogmagog) or J G Lubbock.
________________________________________________
Collection-wise, I’ve achieved a reasonable definition of completion, namely an example of each of the 28 titles, six of which are the more luxurious limitations (with one exception, these were simply issued with extra sets of prints rather than any other differences compared to the ‘ordinaries’). Two books were issued in both German and English editions, and of those I only have the German. There is one bibliographic wrinkle, in that the official numbering of the Press's books is divided into two 'series'. The first ended with No. 25 Die zwanzig Dichter der Raamin-Presse (1998). Publications then recommenced in 1999 with the 'new series' (neuen Reihe) of three books beginning with Ohne uns. Ein Totengespräch, making 28 books in total. I don't know the reason for the restart of numbering, although the retrospective and summarising nature of the Zwanzig Dichter may point to an initial intention to mark this as the final book of the Press. I corresponded with Frau Quadflieg once, who was very kind in answering my nerdy collector’s question regarding slipcases of the early books, but I regret not asking her about the more significant matter of what prompted the ‘restart’. Was it a desire to draw an artistic line between the old and the new (they are rather different stylistically) or simply a reconsidered urge to continue beyond the previously-planned endpoint?
As a collector, I’ve found prices vary wildly – far more so than any other fine press, ancient or modern, in my experience. There are some real bargains to be found for the quality, in my opinion, but it needs a lot of spreadsheet work. There are two very ‘difficult’ books: the near-impossible Was der Tabakschuppen verbarg (23 copies) and the impossible Bulemanns Haus (15 copies). I had to buy a complete collection to secure the latter, and unfortunately my own collection was already halfway to completion by that point, necessitating the disposal of many duplicates. But at least it presented an opportunity for condition and variant upgrades!
43sanvito
>42 BillWoodbridge: Thank you, exactly the kind of response I was hoping to read. I only have two books from the press so far, Holderlin's Patmos, and Das Mittagsmahl. There are plenty more I'm tempted by, but would be interested, given your knowledge of the output, are there any highlights you personally like the best? Or even one book which you might call the best?
You mentioned two books printed in English. I know of the Dylan Thomas volume that came in an English edition alongside the German, but what was the other? (The English text in Van den Machandelboom?).
As for the presses that I thought (very broadly) comparable to Quadflieg's work in terms of being as visually modern as they are involved with traditional design, I was thinking of some of the following: the work of Ken Campbell, Gunnar Kaldeway, & Carolee Campbell.
You mentioned two books printed in English. I know of the Dylan Thomas volume that came in an English edition alongside the German, but what was the other? (The English text in Van den Machandelboom?).
As for the presses that I thought (very broadly) comparable to Quadflieg's work in terms of being as visually modern as they are involved with traditional design, I was thinking of some of the following: the work of Ken Campbell, Gunnar Kaldeway, & Carolee Campbell.
44BillWoodbridge
>43 sanvito: Re. highlights – a rather difficult question. I tend to think of the books in three categories:
1. The early books – quite austere, monochrome illustrations, relatively conventional typography.
2. Middle period books – more adventurous typography but still classically-grounded, more colour, more daring integration of illustration and text, starting from around 8 Die Nachgänger. The sweet spot, for me.
3. The later books – more avant-garde, starting from around 18 Der Neue Orpheus. And including the last three ‘new series’ books.
But that’s very broad-brush, there are plenty of books with styles ‘outside’ their period.
I guess my three favourites are 13 Van den Machandelboom, 15 Traumalphabet and 17 Der Abend des Nachtpfauenauges, and of them perhaps Traumalphabet is first among equals. But it’s a close-run thing – 9 Patmos is great, as is 10 Fabeln and I have a soft spot for 16 Gespenstersouper as my introduction to the Press. The other book I’d really recommend is the Zwanzig Dichter itself, a retrospective of the previous books and a beautiful book in its own right. There’s a copy on ABE right now for £350 which is an astonishing bargain, in my view (there’s also a trade edition, which isn't bad and is so cheap it’s worth buying just to see if you want to go for the real thing).
The other book printed in English (apart from the text in Van den Machandelboom as you say) was the Novalis Fabeln – 30 English copies, 120 German plus a deluxe (ie with extra prints) 30-copy limitation of the German.
I can certainly see some parallels with Gunnar Kaldeway, not that I’m very familiar with the books. The other two I don’t know at all I’m afraid, although I can’t forget a faux-pas once with a much grander book dealer, when I confused Ken Campbell the artist with the firebrand theatre director of the same name.
If you'd like a spreadsheet with the full list, limitation numbers etc please do PM me - it's impossible to transcribe it with only the rudimentary formatting possible here.
1. The early books – quite austere, monochrome illustrations, relatively conventional typography.
2. Middle period books – more adventurous typography but still classically-grounded, more colour, more daring integration of illustration and text, starting from around 8 Die Nachgänger. The sweet spot, for me.
3. The later books – more avant-garde, starting from around 18 Der Neue Orpheus. And including the last three ‘new series’ books.
But that’s very broad-brush, there are plenty of books with styles ‘outside’ their period.
I guess my three favourites are 13 Van den Machandelboom, 15 Traumalphabet and 17 Der Abend des Nachtpfauenauges, and of them perhaps Traumalphabet is first among equals. But it’s a close-run thing – 9 Patmos is great, as is 10 Fabeln and I have a soft spot for 16 Gespenstersouper as my introduction to the Press. The other book I’d really recommend is the Zwanzig Dichter itself, a retrospective of the previous books and a beautiful book in its own right. There’s a copy on ABE right now for £350 which is an astonishing bargain, in my view (there’s also a trade edition, which isn't bad and is so cheap it’s worth buying just to see if you want to go for the real thing).
The other book printed in English (apart from the text in Van den Machandelboom as you say) was the Novalis Fabeln – 30 English copies, 120 German plus a deluxe (ie with extra prints) 30-copy limitation of the German.
I can certainly see some parallels with Gunnar Kaldeway, not that I’m very familiar with the books. The other two I don’t know at all I’m afraid, although I can’t forget a faux-pas once with a much grander book dealer, when I confused Ken Campbell the artist with the firebrand theatre director of the same name.
If you'd like a spreadsheet with the full list, limitation numbers etc please do PM me - it's impossible to transcribe it with only the rudimentary formatting possible here.
45LT79-1
>44 BillWoodbridge: This response highlights exactly the kind of knowledge which can be attained through acquiring a complete set (or thereabouts) of books from a press. Interesting things like shifts in style and focus as the press moves through its lifecycle. From your description the press seems to have built that foundation of "monochrome illustrations and conventional typography" before moving on to more creative approaches. I might purchase a trade edition myself after reading your interesting conversation. Thanks for your detailed contributions to this thread.
46sanvito
>44 BillWoodbridge: Thank you. I had no idea of the English Novalis. And your highlights happen to have enabled a purchase, as if it would take much with a press this good.
It made me smile to read, because I also made the exact same mistake with the Campbell, most cathartic to know I’m not the only one.
As a very very very amateur printer myself, the work of Quadflieg is a real inspiration. Thank you again for the insight to her oeuvre.
It made me smile to read, because I also made the exact same mistake with the Campbell, most cathartic to know I’m not the only one.
As a very very very amateur printer myself, the work of Quadflieg is a real inspiration. Thank you again for the insight to her oeuvre.
47abysswalker
Sort of a sideways response, but one of my few rules for collecting is no completionism, except for series (mostly for the practical reason of avoiding high cost/low value acquisitions which would be purely to fill holes, and make me stop and think).
48ns21
>44 BillWoodbridge: Very nice, detailed overview! Thanks for taking the time to share. It would be neat if enthusiasts/collectors with this sort of scholarly approach put together descriptive bibliographies with the observations they make looking at the body of work as a while. FABS and similar societies probably have grants to support such work. Even a digital version would be cool.
49BillWoodbridge
>45 LT79-1:
>46 sanvito:
>47 abysswalker:
>48 ns21:
Thanks for all your kind words – I do enjoy putting these kind of things together. I think David Butcher is the modern master when it comes to short monographs on presses (and full-blown descriptive bibliographies, come to that). He manages to combine comprehensive accounts, vivid descriptions of the books, a little (but not too much) opinion to keep things lively and, cleverest of all, the ability to talk through a series of individual books without becoming repetitive or boring.
Thanks for sharing your own Ken Campbell / Ken Campbell mistake! For me, it wasn’t quite as bad as the time a customer asked me whether I had anything relating to John Lewis. I said I wasn’t aware of any book on the history of the British department store chain and I thought it was unlikely that even if there was, it wouldn’t have been given a fine press treatment. He looked pained, and politely expressed surprise that I didn’t seem to be aware of the distinguished typographer …. In my defence, it was a long time ago (although not quite as long ago as I’d like it to be).
I quite agree on the downsides of purely hole-filling. The worst combination of all is high cost / low value / low interest and only a peripheral connection to the press or printer in question. My worst offender is probably the Gwasg Gregynog Murmura Maldwyn, an incredibly obscure commission of 2003, just nine copies done of which only four were for sale … and printed on an inkjet printer! (That’s slightly unfair – other aspects of the book put it into the livre d’artiste category).
Finally a few extra notes to fill out the Raamin details:
- Another book with substantial English text alongside the German is 24 Venus und Adonis
- I'd forgotten that my copy of 7 Der Ausgestossene is inscribed to the colophon ‘Für Gunnar Kaldewey’ so your drawing a comparison with Raamin is most appropriate!
- On reflection, I feel sure I have seen something where RQ mentions the motivation for the ‘New Series’, but I can’t put my finger on it at the moment
>46 sanvito:
>47 abysswalker:
>48 ns21:
Thanks for all your kind words – I do enjoy putting these kind of things together. I think David Butcher is the modern master when it comes to short monographs on presses (and full-blown descriptive bibliographies, come to that). He manages to combine comprehensive accounts, vivid descriptions of the books, a little (but not too much) opinion to keep things lively and, cleverest of all, the ability to talk through a series of individual books without becoming repetitive or boring.
Thanks for sharing your own Ken Campbell / Ken Campbell mistake! For me, it wasn’t quite as bad as the time a customer asked me whether I had anything relating to John Lewis. I said I wasn’t aware of any book on the history of the British department store chain and I thought it was unlikely that even if there was, it wouldn’t have been given a fine press treatment. He looked pained, and politely expressed surprise that I didn’t seem to be aware of the distinguished typographer …. In my defence, it was a long time ago (although not quite as long ago as I’d like it to be).
I quite agree on the downsides of purely hole-filling. The worst combination of all is high cost / low value / low interest and only a peripheral connection to the press or printer in question. My worst offender is probably the Gwasg Gregynog Murmura Maldwyn, an incredibly obscure commission of 2003, just nine copies done of which only four were for sale … and printed on an inkjet printer! (That’s slightly unfair – other aspects of the book put it into the livre d’artiste category).
Finally a few extra notes to fill out the Raamin details:
- Another book with substantial English text alongside the German is 24 Venus und Adonis
- I'd forgotten that my copy of 7 Der Ausgestossene is inscribed to the colophon ‘Für Gunnar Kaldewey’ so your drawing a comparison with Raamin is most appropriate!
- On reflection, I feel sure I have seen something where RQ mentions the motivation for the ‘New Series’, but I can’t put my finger on it at the moment
50LT79-1
>47 abysswalker: I think this is the majority view. I don't think the majority would make particularly good scholars of presses though. You kind of need the press fanatics. In this history of a press the duds are as important as the greats. And sometimes the duds are not even duds. I feel this way about Allen Press Jealousy. It was treated as a dud even though a lot was going on and a lot of thought went into it.
