This topic is currently marked as "dormant"—the last message is more than 90 days old. You can revive it by posting a reply.
1SamuelW
Should a boxed set be combined with a collection of the books in one volume?
For example: 'Wicked' is a series of six short books by Australian author Paul Jennings. Currently, each book exists as a separate work, and there are two other works as well.
1) All six books collected in one volume: http://www.librarything.com/work/1421031
2) All six books collected (as individual volumes) in a slipcase: http://www.librarything.com/work/6062266
Should these works be combined?
For example: 'Wicked' is a series of six short books by Australian author Paul Jennings. Currently, each book exists as a separate work, and there are two other works as well.
1) All six books collected in one volume: http://www.librarything.com/work/1421031
2) All six books collected (as individual volumes) in a slipcase: http://www.librarything.com/work/6062266
Should these works be combined?
2sabreuse
I'd combine the slipcased and single-volume versions -- they're the same content, just bound differently.
3Nicole_VanK
Yeah, I agree. Unless either contains extra material, they're essentially the same.
5jseger9000
I dunno. I've been buying the Collected Peanuts books. They are publishing two books a year and at the end of the year they stick those two books into a box. I've been buying the box at the end of the year.
Now, I've entered each book individually and think that is how it should be done. The books are identical whether you buy them in a box or separately. They still have the bar code and ISBN and everything.
Nonetheless, if you look at the Collected Peanuts series, you will see that each box has also been entered (as an omnibus). I guess for some users a box set is different from the individual books.
Now, I've entered each book individually and think that is how it should be done. The books are identical whether you buy them in a box or separately. They still have the bar code and ISBN and everything.
Nonetheless, if you look at the Collected Peanuts series, you will see that each box has also been entered (as an omnibus). I guess for some users a box set is different from the individual books.
6prosfilaes
5> But under the general rules of the system, the binding and the container are not things that separate works; if it's the same contents, then it's the same work.
7PortiaLong
I find the concept of "boxed sets" to be completely useless and hence have been a stong supporter of the concept of an "Other" option - as discussed in thread found: http://www.librarything.com/talktopic.php?topic=32996
From my standpoint - if the content is the same (or mostly so) then it is the same work. For instance I have no objection to MY copy of Isaac Asimov's Guide to Shakespeare (2 volumes in 1) being combined with the 2 volume "set" - be it boxed or otherwise. Because I am a "completist" I also use the concept of an inclusion so I can keep track of works-within-works...see my profile for details.
From my standpoint - if the content is the same (or mostly so) then it is the same work. For instance I have no objection to MY copy of Isaac Asimov's Guide to Shakespeare (2 volumes in 1) being combined with the 2 volume "set" - be it boxed or otherwise. Because I am a "completist" I also use the concept of an inclusion so I can keep track of works-within-works...see my profile for details.
8jjwilson61
I don't consider a bit of cardboard wrapped around a few books to be a "binding." Thus I've cataloged each book in my Sherlock Holmes box set separately.
9jseger9000
#6, 7 and 8,
I agree. You will never see a boxed set in my LT library.
I'm just saying not all users seem to and don't be surprised if box sets keep popping up.
Sorry, didn't mean to be arguing for box sets.
I agree. You will never see a boxed set in my LT library.
I'm just saying not all users seem to and don't be surprised if box sets keep popping up.
Sorry, didn't mean to be arguing for box sets.
10Nicole_VanK
> 5 through 9 :
Of course you can enter the single volumes separately - in which case they are different (part vs. total rule). Just saying that if and when you enter them as boxed sets as such, then they are the same work as a omnibus edition containing those same books.
Think single volume Lord of the Rings vs. boxed sets - entered as such (and people will do so, like it or not) - of The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, AND The Return of the King.
Of course you can enter the single volumes separately - in which case they are different (part vs. total rule). Just saying that if and when you enter them as boxed sets as such, then they are the same work as a omnibus edition containing those same books.
Think single volume Lord of the Rings vs. boxed sets - entered as such (and people will do so, like it or not) - of The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, AND The Return of the King.
11lquilter
... "contains" and "contained in" connections could help resolve this dilemma, to which I believe there is no correct answer. sigh.
the "social" definition of "work" would argue "combine", yes?
the "collector" / "inventory management" definition of "work" would argue "keep separate", yes?
... also i note that, unlike with an omnibus, you can't assume that someone with a boxed set actually has all the member entities.
the "social" definition of "work" would argue "combine", yes?
the "collector" / "inventory management" definition of "work" would argue "keep separate", yes?
... also i note that, unlike with an omnibus, you can't assume that someone with a boxed set actually has all the member entities.
12prosfilaes
11> But the collector / inventory management definition of work is not the one used at LibraryThing. For the collection and inventory management person, the 1922 Irish edition of Alice in Wonderland is an entirely different book (distinct illustrations, first translation into Irish, rare enough to be priceless) than the 200x Dover budget reprint.
You can't assume that someone with an omnibus hasn't ripped out sections of the book either, but in both cases, if they list it as the set, I'd feel free to assume it's complete. A boxed set without all the books really shouldn't be combined with a boxed set with all the books.
You can't assume that someone with an omnibus hasn't ripped out sections of the book either, but in both cases, if they list it as the set, I'd feel free to assume it's complete. A boxed set without all the books really shouldn't be combined with a boxed set with all the books.
13Nicole_VanK
Yes, can't wait for those "contains / contained in" options.
Well, if someone specifies (s)he has the full boxed set, I think you must assume that. But of course, for some series (notoriously Harry Potter) there have been various boxed sets containing only parts of the series. It could be hard work keeping these various sets separated. Fortunately there's no single volume edition of HP to complicate things further - probably because that wouldn't fit.
Well, if someone specifies (s)he has the full boxed set, I think you must assume that. But of course, for some series (notoriously Harry Potter) there have been various boxed sets containing only parts of the series. It could be hard work keeping these various sets separated. Fortunately there's no single volume edition of HP to complicate things further - probably because that wouldn't fit.
14infiniteletters
I've seen some (recent) boxed sets where the books don't have separate ISBNs, only the boxes.
15Musereader
My copy of The Lord of the Rings is a 7 volume boxset with the ISBN on the box and no ISBN on the separate books (probably because they are not avalible to be sold separatley) So they got entered as one work.
The box set of Narnia Chronicals had separate ISBNs that weren't found on the LT Sources though so I entered them as one work with the ISBN on the box, which did work. These particular editions can't be found separatley either.
However I also have the Thomas Covenant First Chronicles in a box and entered them separatley because they were the same ones that could be bought seperatly previously.
So its down to if you can buy the exact same books (edition and cover, ISBN etc) separatly without the box, or if it was an edition specially printed to go in the box.
The box set of Narnia Chronicals had separate ISBNs that weren't found on the LT Sources though so I entered them as one work with the ISBN on the box, which did work. These particular editions can't be found separatley either.
However I also have the Thomas Covenant First Chronicles in a box and entered them separatley because they were the same ones that could be bought seperatly previously.
So its down to if you can buy the exact same books (edition and cover, ISBN etc) separatly without the box, or if it was an edition specially printed to go in the box.
16Nicole_VanK
>15 Musereader:: Yes, but it's even more about whether you enter the books separately or as a set. Basic rule of combining: separate = separate, set = set.
17lorax
15>
Entering your boxed set as a single entry is just fine, and combining that boxed set with a single-volume edition is also okay.
Entering your boxed set as individual entries is also just fine.
What is very much not okay is combining those individual entries with a single-volume edition, or with the boxed set entered as a single entry -- the part is not the whole.
Edited to close tag.
Entering your boxed set as a single entry is just fine, and combining that boxed set with a single-volume edition is also okay.
Entering your boxed set as individual entries is also just fine.
What is very much not okay is combining those individual entries with a single-volume edition, or with the boxed set entered as a single entry -- the part is not the whole.
Edited to close tag.
18jadler
Reply to msg 8:
I wish I could... My Shakespeare Library In Ten Volumes (URL below) only has ISBN for the whole box, not the individual books.
http://www.librarything.com/work/4642528/details/37172311
In one other case I had quite the opposite problem. It is a Swedish set of books (and more) on typography and graphic design aimed at printed text. The books are available one by one, all three of them, or as a boxed set. My "problem" is that the boxed set also includes a CD-ROM and two other tools. The boxed set has an ISBN of its own, and each book has one too.
I chose to register the box (plastic, not cardboard (-: ) with the extra stuff under it's own ISBN, the three books too, and make all four items into a series with the name of the box.
Series:
http://www.librarything.com/series/Ord+%2526+form%2C+Ordfront+f%C3%B6rlag
Box as a work:
http://www.librarything.com/work/6401248
I wish I could... My Shakespeare Library In Ten Volumes (URL below) only has ISBN for the whole box, not the individual books.
http://www.librarything.com/work/4642528/details/37172311
In one other case I had quite the opposite problem. It is a Swedish set of books (and more) on typography and graphic design aimed at printed text. The books are available one by one, all three of them, or as a boxed set. My "problem" is that the boxed set also includes a CD-ROM and two other tools. The boxed set has an ISBN of its own, and each book has one too.
I chose to register the box (plastic, not cardboard (-: ) with the extra stuff under it's own ISBN, the three books too, and make all four items into a series with the name of the box.
Series:
http://www.librarything.com/series/Ord+%2526+form%2C+Ordfront+f%C3%B6rlag
Box as a work:
http://www.librarything.com/work/6401248
19PortiaLong
>18 jadler:
I wouldn't let the lack of individual ISBNs stop you from cataloging your works in whichever way you prefer.
As I mentioned in #7 I don't find the concept of "boxed set" to be useful, but sometimes I DO find it useful to have "volumes" of a work treated in a certain way.
I outlined in #7 how I handled one case of "two volumes in one." I treat my "Doubles" a little differently - each gets entered twice with ISBN (swapping title order and author) and the individual subwork gets listed as an inclusion: so -
http://www.librarything.com/work/253070/details/18652417
and
http://www.librarything.com/work/253070/details/18652516
are the same work, which "includes":
http://www.librarything.com/work/4756752/book/18678733
and
http://www.librarything.com/work/6175798/book/18678592
Yes, this does create "duplications" in my library and throw off a few numbers BUT this is less important to me than being able to get the data to behave in a way that is useful to me.
A different case - a set with two volumes may be entered:
as a set -
http://www.librarything.com/work/49654/book/37159700
AND as separate volumes -
http://www.librarything.com/work/330094/book/37160708
http://www.librarything.com/work/326674/book/37160994
In a different case, I didn't find it useful to catalogue individual volumes and so just entered the set and left it at that:
http://www.librarything.com/work/5257891/book/29406374
I think there are arguments for the validity of several different ways of listing your works (at least until LT comes up with a mega-works/sub-works functionality) and you should utilize whichever makes sense in the context of YOUR library. So for instance, in the case of your Shakespeare in 10 volumes - you could enter them individually WITHOUT ISBNs and manually combine as appropriate.
I happen to think that your treatment of your Swedish books + additional material is a good work-around for this type of problem, however some people may argue that this is not appropriate use of the "Series" concept.
I wouldn't let the lack of individual ISBNs stop you from cataloging your works in whichever way you prefer.
As I mentioned in #7 I don't find the concept of "boxed set" to be useful, but sometimes I DO find it useful to have "volumes" of a work treated in a certain way.
I outlined in #7 how I handled one case of "two volumes in one." I treat my "Doubles" a little differently - each gets entered twice with ISBN (swapping title order and author) and the individual subwork gets listed as an inclusion: so -
http://www.librarything.com/work/253070/details/18652417
and
http://www.librarything.com/work/253070/details/18652516
are the same work, which "includes":
http://www.librarything.com/work/4756752/book/18678733
and
http://www.librarything.com/work/6175798/book/18678592
Yes, this does create "duplications" in my library and throw off a few numbers BUT this is less important to me than being able to get the data to behave in a way that is useful to me.
A different case - a set with two volumes may be entered:
as a set -
http://www.librarything.com/work/49654/book/37159700
AND as separate volumes -
http://www.librarything.com/work/330094/book/37160708
http://www.librarything.com/work/326674/book/37160994
In a different case, I didn't find it useful to catalogue individual volumes and so just entered the set and left it at that:
http://www.librarything.com/work/5257891/book/29406374
I think there are arguments for the validity of several different ways of listing your works (at least until LT comes up with a mega-works/sub-works functionality) and you should utilize whichever makes sense in the context of YOUR library. So for instance, in the case of your Shakespeare in 10 volumes - you could enter them individually WITHOUT ISBNs and manually combine as appropriate.
I happen to think that your treatment of your Swedish books + additional material is a good work-around for this type of problem, however some people may argue that this is not appropriate use of the "Series" concept.
20jadler
Combination request, explanation on how to do it would be appreciated:
http://www.librarything.com/work/1920896
http://www.librarything.com/work/315580
Both are the Handbook of Epictetus, former with some of his other works included (can be separated later).
http://www.librarything.com/work/1920896
http://www.librarything.com/work/315580
Both are the Handbook of Epictetus, former with some of his other works included (can be separated later).
21Nicole_VanK
Since Epiktetos is author combined with Epictetus - if it hadn't been you could easily do so - both show up on the author's combine/separate list (which you can find under the author page). Just go there by clicking the author's name and you'll find combine/separate on the right of "Books by..." Good luck and please don't forget to separate the ones that include other material afterwards (and recombine them with eachother if/when that applies).
