Currently reading development and feedback

So we're doing tons of development related to the new Collections feature and Currently reading is one of the things that's getting a makeover.

My aim is to make CR easier to use and more powerful at the same time.

Here are some mockups that we have been talking over. Right now we are pushing towards the top version. There are subtle differences, but they are important in the functionality that they bring out. (reading progress such as page number is something that we've tossed around)

Anyway. I'd like to open up some discussion about:
1. What you think about what you see.
2. How you use/plan to use currently reading
3. What would you like to see it do. Is this enough?
4. Is it simple enough to use.

Since you don't have any interaction with it I'll explain the UI a little bit. The "Currently reading" button is just that, a button. It also has a little menu arrow to the right that is a separate button. If you click on the CR button then you simply add the book using the current date/time. When you unclick it then the book is removed from your currently reading list using the current date/time. Simple operation.

If you want more power over your data you can click on the dropdown arrow and get the box that you see in this image. It lets you set dates for started, finished, and if you are currently reading the book (and possibly other things like current page number). In this way you can signify books that you didn't finish by unselecting the "currently reading" checkbox without putting in a finished date. We may add other features here too.

Any way of using this without having it populate the date fields?

Yes. You don't have to put anything in the date fields. Although if you don't then you may not be able to take advantage of future features that we develop to use the dates (reading timelines, etc.)

Right. (And thanks.) That's what I'm arguing for. The checkbox would allow people to record that they're currently reading something without filling in the date.

The date is also planned to be a string. If you don't use the standard format, it stores the string you entered—like 1986 or "college" or whatever. For display purposes it will attempt a date version of that (ie., 1986 will be Jan 1, 1986 and college will be nada).

I also think the checkbox allows us to separate the checkbox from "finished." I think of "finished" as "finished the book" not "finished reading the book." So if I give up on a book, I want it to be able to uncheck the box, but not fill in the finished.

Do want.

Now please.

If you allow the user to put in the page number could you also let them add the total number of pages? That way you could calculate a percentage read which would be comparable across editions.

>7 jjwilson61:
Goodreads does this. I use it all the time. Would rather be doing it here at LT of course.

Where would this feature be located, and how would it handle multiple reads?

So, this is instead of having a CR collection? Or would this automatically add/remove a book from such a collection?

posts 2-4> I'm a bit confused about how you've said it will work, RE the population of the date fields. I wouldn't necessarily - actually ever - want it to auto-populate dates, so what happens when I push the button? Will it enter a date so that I then have to open it up and delete the date? Or will there be a way to set it so that pressing the button doesn't automatically enter a date for me?

post 4> Dates as strings: fantastic!!

In answer to cD's questions:
1. What you think about what you see.
Not sure. Depends on answers to the questions above.
2. How you use/plan to use currently reading
I don't use the current boxes, since they don't do anything and aren't searchable. I would possibly use a redesigned feature to keep a list of books I'm in the middle of, whether I'm reading them in a linear fashion or not. So I may or might use dates for some of the books, but I'm certain I won't use them for all of them. I will probably not use exact start and end dates, or if so, VERY rarely. I will probably use an imprecise finish date for many books (year only, or month year), but I wouldn't want what's in that field to affect my CR status, since I may go back and reread books or parts of books frequently.
3. What would you like to see it do. Is this enough?
Perhaps add them to a CR collection? Perhaps allow the generation of widgets for my profile, or external site/blog widgets? Certainly the status should be searchable from within the catalog, whether or dates are entered.
4. Is it simple enough to use.
In terms of basic UI, yes. In another sense, maybe not, if I have to fiddle with it every time I want to use it, since I might not want the dates. If I could set my global preferences RE whether or not it automatically enters dates it would be much easier, a one click button.

I like the top version better. Once it's expanded, it's not intuitively obvious how to uncheck the status in the bottom one.

See I like the idea of having status be linked to this too. I don't want page, but any way of recording status, a la Twitter and so forth.

I really like the look of this! I'm so happy to see integration between Currently Reading and the date fields (and hooray for the mention of reading timelines!). I hadn't initially expected to use Currently Reading (too fleeting if it doesn't produce any lasting data), but now I think I will.

I'm a bit unclear on what you're saying the relationship between the dates and the checkbox will be, though. I think the ideal situation would be that it fills in the dates by default, but the user can then change or delete them, and can also choose an option never to have it fill the dates.

I hope we can also have an option for the reverse, automatically checking currently reading when we enter a start date for the book, and automatically removing it when we enter an end date. I think I'll still prefer to edit dates from the catalogue, and I really hope the conversion of dates to a string won't prevent this or make it more awkward. I really like being able to enter dates quickly and in a more intuitive way; even though YYYY-MM-DD is logical, the reverse seems more natural.

One minor issue: it says YYY in the mock-ups; I assume it should be YYYY.

Basically, I really like the look of this. I'm finally really excited about collections!

My main concern is turning the dates into strings. I'm really worried that this will result in loss of functionality or decreased ease of use. How will this affect in-catalogue editing?

1. What you think about what you see.
I think it looks fine, but there should be 4 Ys indicating the 4 digits in a year. (You're only showing 3.)

2. How you use/plan to use currently reading
I check the box off every item I start a new book even though I know it does nothing. Then I fill in the date and hope it doesn't get erased. (this happens sometimes - then I have to go to a competitor's site to re-find the date I started reading the book).

3. What would you like to see it do. Is this enough?
I want it to show on my profile somehow and I'd like if it could connect me with anyone else currently reading the same book.

4. Is it simple enough to use.
Yep.

Agree with #11 -- top version is better. Also, as long as you're explicating things, it might be nice to have a button for "add another read", that breaks out a new set of fields ....

I have zero interest in using _currently_ reading, but I'm very excited about getting functionality out of the finished dates. I'd love to be able to search for "things I read last spring" or "things I read over Christmas break".

Over time, being able to sort on "most times read" and "average period between reads" would be very cool to see.

What you think about what you see?
Four Ys, please, instead of three.

How do you use/plan to use currently reading?
I'd like it to be a permanent part of my profile. Now I use HTML to post my current reads to my profile. I'd like those links (with cover pictures) to be automatically listed there if I enter start dates on LT.

What would you like to see it do?
1. I'd like it to show a reading timeline for me (like the one cD created a while back).
2. I'd like to have a way of knowing who is also reading a certain book at the same time that I am.
3. I'd like to know whose wishlist my current read is one (...just in case I'd like to forward my current read to someone else after I'm done).
4. I'd like the ability to adjust the number of books I have listed on currently reading (in case I only want to list the top three, for example).

Is it simple enough to use?
Definitely!

So, I think my first post answered just #1. Now for the rest:

2: I don't use currently reading right now, but I do use the date fields. I plan to use currently reading if it's easy and does interesting things.

3: This isn't really enough to make it worth using--at this point, it doesn't really seem to do anything. I'd like an automatic way to display Currently Reading books on my profile and see who's currently reading a book, top 100 lists of which books people occur most on currently reading lists now and historically, and pretty much anything else you can think of.

There are lots more things that I'd like to see done with the date fields, though I use them as is. Again, it would be nice if we could automatically display most recent X books read on our profiles and see other people who have recently read a book. I'd also like top 100 lists of which books people have read recently and historically. I'd really love the reading timeline to be completed. I'd like lists of which books take the longest and shortest time to read on average, which are most often started but not finished, etc. etc. There's a whole list of these things in a thread somewhere.

4: It looks easy enough to use, though editing dates from the catalogue still seems even easier. Also, I agree with rsterling that it should be possible to set global preferences about whether or not to have it fill in the dates automatically; otherwise some people would have a lot of extra work.

Also, I forgot to say earlier that I prefer the top version.

I'd like to have a way of knowing who is also reading a certain book at the same time that I am.

I would like to see a short list of the people who most recently finish reading a specific book.

Is it simple enough to use?
Very much so. Straight forward and simple

Oh, ansate reminded me of another thing that would make this feature really great: being able to search on reading dates! This isn't important for personal catalogues as much as for group catalogues, since it's not possible to see a complete group catalogue in order to do a manual sort.

edit: also, that reminds me of another thing that would be nice: lists of books that are most often read in, say, December.

I probably won't be using the second interface, because I always enter my start and finish dates on my Catalogue page. In fact, all I really need is a check-box on the Catalogue page, maybe in the 'Shared' column.

I like it. I would use it. I would want to be able to have multiple books listed as being currently read.

I use dates now, for both starting and ending. Since you can have multiple sets of dates on the edit book page (for rereads, I am assuming) I wouldn't want a new auto feature to wipe out older date sets.

I would like to see a box where you could check that you quit the book. Some I take a while to read and some I don't plan to finish. Its like a Status box (Read, Reread, IP, TBR, Quit, Delay) that kind of thing. Then make it searchable perhaps by month and/or year and you can get a picture of your reading. With enough data you can compare year to year (by month). Its what I do now with my Access DB.

The page thing is kinda meh for me. I use it on GR, but I almost never update. Though if you did something where you could track how long it takes to read what % of the book. it would be cool. Especially if you could compare by types so you could see if you read faster or slower by different genres or subjects (Tags). If you add it I would like to be able to enter the total pages, cause GR is not always right.

In terms of where it should show up, maybe home page and profile.

I would actually like to be able to move what was current into a table of books read for the year on your profile, once you completed or quit a book. I have been playing with something, but don't know enough HTML to make the table happen yet (or if Profile will let you do it).

A couple more things:

- some sort of currently reading display on the profile page
- get LTTL working nicely

- most importantly, if the dates are to be automatic, then we need to have personal local time settings, because using the server date/time would be annoying.

Oh, a thought about times: does this mean that if we read two books in one day, they'll be able to sort in the right order in the catalogue?

Also, this may be straying a bit from the topic, but I think there should also be a default Already Read collection so that you can do similar fun stuff with that data. The assumption that "not TBR/CR = already read" is a pretty weak one.

This UI is going to tie into the data that is already on the book edit page (where you can add currently reading dates). We'll update that to use the new code that this is going to use. The button that is in the picture will be located at the top of each book page. Think of it as a shortcut to currently reading. As such, it won't have the ability to add multiple rows or past reading dates. If you want to do that you can use the Book edit page.

10: I'm a bit confused that your one of your main goals is to be able to sort your reading but you don't want to use dates. That seems incongruous to me. I'm all ears.

I have to admit that I would rather not have the checkbox because, well, if you are currently reading something then...well...it's current. It implies a time element. When you click on the item it is implied that you are talking about a time frame in which you are reading or did read a book. I guess the disconnect with me is that I don't think of "finished" as the date I finished a book, but as the date that I stopped reading a book. So the checkbox has little meaning in that circumstance. I think the label should be changed to "Stopped reading."

But I'm all ears on this matter too.

21, Noisy: What do you mean all you need is a checkbox on the catalog page? You just want to check whether or not you are reading the book right now? If that's the case then that is what the main button is in the pictures (I've clicked the little drop-down arrow to open the details window in these pictures).

18, Zoe: it doesn't really seem to do anything.
Well, it can't really do anything until we have data for it to do with. :) We'd like to use currently reading data in more places on the site. That's why we're making a push for it to be easier to use and more feature rich.

>25 conceptDawg:

Why should I have to go to the book page to manage this stuff? I am very unlikely to revisit a book page once I have done my original entry to my satisfaction - all my further interactions are through the catalogue page. Having this switch on the book page forces me to visit that page, if I want to make use of the functionality associated with the switch, for just that one single purpose.

25> In answer to your question, I read different books differently. Currently, I have one or two novels I've started, and am reading from beginning to end, though not always in a sitting. For these, dates might make sense. However, even if dates made sense they might not be something I want to make public by putting them in my catalog, even if I don't mind telling people I'm currently reading them. I'd have to think about it.

For the 20+ other books I'm reading, however, I might dip in for a bit, read one chapter, maybe the intro, or chapter 3, then put it down, then go to another, read a chapter of that one, then go back to the first book, read another chapter, but an earlier chapter in the book, and so on and so on. These are mostly non-fiction books, philosophy, theory, and history. I am reading the books, but I'm not reading them from p. 1 to the end, or at least not always. Some I read in full, some I don't. Dates are just irrelevant here. For those I finish completely, I might note the year or month and year, for each reading. Regardless, I might be interesting in telling others I'm reading them, and even perhaps connecting with others who are reading them. I read for both work and pleasure, and my reading practices for those vary - sometimes they're the same, sometimes they're not, sometimes they involve linear reading, sometimes they don't.

Please no comments about this being a stupid way to read. I've been trying to argue from the beginning of this dates/currently-reading debate that there are and have always been many different reading practices. I don't see why we should presume everyone reads books in a particular way.

27: I didn't mean that the book page will be the ONLY page this UI is on...just that it will be there. If it fits to use it in the catalog then we'll put it there too. But that depends on where this UI goes and what the result is.

28: No, I don't presume anything about your reading habits (or anybody else's). That's why I asked the question. I appreciate your answer.

* So you want to say "Hey, I'm reading this."
* You want to use that information to interact with others that are reading the same material.
* You also want the book to show in a list of books that you are currently reading.
* But you don't want any dates associated with it at all? Unless you specifically put them in.
Correct?

Think of it as a shortcut to currently reading. As such, it won't have the ability to add multiple rows or past reading dates. If you want to do that you can use the Book edit page.

But what happens if you click the checkbox and you already have a date in the Started field? Shouldn't the new date go in the next Started field? Or will the data just be lost? I really hope you won't overwrite whatever's there.

I guess the disconnect with me is that I don't think of "finished" as the date I finished a book, but as the date that I stopped reading a book. So the checkbox has little meaning in that circumstance. I think the label should be changed to "Stopped reading."

I think this is a pretty non-standard interpretation of the date fields. I certainly wouldn't want all Read dates to change to Stopped Reading, because that's not what I use it for. There might be a slight case for adding a Stopped Reading date in addition to Finished, but it's probably not worth the confusion it would cause.

I'm with Noisy, I do all my editing from the catalogue page. I hope it will be possible to mark Currently Reading from there.

Well, it can't really do anything until we have data for it to do with. :)

Oh, I know you're planning to do more :). But since you asked whether this was enough, I had to give an honest answer :P

But that depends on where this UI goes and what the result is.

What are the possibilities?

As such, it won't have the ability to add multiple rows or past reading dates. If you want to do that you can use the Book edit page.

I just want to be sure that if there are already a set of dates for the book in question, the new function doesn't overwrite them. It would need to add another set since the first or first+X is already in use.

30. You got it. Thanks for saying it so much more simply!

(Sorry, I didn't mean to sound testy or imply you were making presumptions. I was just remembering some discussions in the old thread, where a few people didn't understand why anyone would want to use currently reading for books they didn't read cover to cover.)

No, we're planning on using the same data that is already in the system and adding to it. No need to redo any of your previous reading dates...unless you want to. :)

If you aren't currently reading the book then it creates a new reading record (for lack of a better descriptive term) for that book.

35: So it's possible to have books sort in order of button click or by dates?

35:This would take into account preexisting data with only finishing dates?

34: No problem. You weren't testy. I commonly repeat what others tell me so that I can make sure that I understand it correctly. My version is usually more simply because I'm simply more simple. :)

On a more serious note: I do want everybody to please understand that we will try and make this feature as rich as we can but I seriously doubt that we can please 100% of you. That's the nature of the game. Just don't get upset with us because your pet feature was left off. We'll measure feedback and weigh it against development resources and feature gain to make a decision. No decision is made lightly around here. Many a fist fight has broken out during feature discussions (ok, not reallly).

What sort of things are at risk of being left out? It seems like people mostly agree about the core feature.

If you want to see the button in action....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/christopherholland/3277071159/

Note that the details box is just a mockup. But the button is working and you can see how the two parts interact.

So if you use the shorter method of adding it to Currently Reading, does it still add the date and just not show it?

Zoe brought it up in #18, but I also want to reiterate that some sort of Recently Read function would be just as useful as Currently Reading. I tend to finish a 250-300 page book in a few days, and there are several people on LT who will read one book a day. Thus, Currently Reading is pretty fleeting.

I would love to see this functionality be able to merge into something with Recently Read, where Recently Read might be something in the last 1-2 months. That could feed a widget to my Profile or blog, or it could give me a list of people who have recently read a book I'm either currently reading or thinking about starting.

But I also want to say that this is great! As someone who is a big advocate and user of dates on LT, I can't wait to see this in action!

>23 Noisy:, Noisy said: "some sort of currently reading display on the profile page"

Agree, agree! Right now I do this manually and I would love it if my profile page could just update to show what I'm currently reading automatically, based on manipulating the data in other places (i.e., using the "currently reading" checkbox). There could be an option in the account/profile page settings as to how this would display on the profile page (kind of like the widgets that currently exist for use on non-LT pages) and I think there should also be an option to not display currently reading on the profile page, in case some don't want it.

ETA: I also really like Talbin's idea for a recently read widget on the profile page.

Talbin,
I know what you are saying there. But that's another feature altogether. And you can certainly use this feature to get what you want by filling in past dates.

We'll use the information provided in CR to populate various things on the site. Currently reading, recently read, others reading what you are reading, others that have read what you have read recently, a reading timeline, etc.

So if I check the box, then a week later uncheck it while forcing the "finished" box to be blank, then a month later check it, and then uncheck it letting the date go through, would the system understand what happened?

More curious than anything else.

Yes, it would show that you were reading it at two different times for a week. It would show that you didn't finish it the first time but you did the second. Perfect example of what Tim was talking about when he mentioned the need for the checkbox.

I don't think anyone has asked this, so:
Will it only work for books already in your catalog (i.e. in your library or in one of your collections)? Will you have to add the book to one of your collections before you can use the button?
(I'm assuming so, but I just wanted to confirm.)

48: Right now the book will have to be in your library to be able to modify currently reading. But we've waffled back and forth on that a couple of times during development so it could end up the other way around.

The key question I have is whether to make the status feature separate from this or not.

>49 conceptDawg:

No. The book will have to be in your library in some way. The default collection is called "Your library." There are also wishlist collections, a collection for "Read by not owned," etc. But we are not applying any data to books that aren't added to your library in some way.

So it has to be in your library but not necessarily Your Library.

Right. I think we need to change the "Your library" tab to "Your books."

Dunno. Ideas?

- I love the top version with the Currently Reading check box.

- I agree with >5 timspalding:: I think of "finished" as "finished the book" not "finished reading the book." and would like to have the ability to remove a book from Currently Reading if I have stopped reading the book mid-stream, for what-ever reason (hate the book, distracted by another book, etc).

- As mentioned in >46 Alixtii: & 47: I like the fact that the feature can track the activity if I stop reading a book and then resume it at a later date.

- I would like the start date to automatically populate the field with the date entered, but with the optional ability to change the date if I actually started to book two days earlier and want to accurately record that information. Same goes for the finished date.

- As posted by >30 conceptDawg:: I would like the Currently Reading function to let LT users know what I am currently reading and to find out who else is currently reading the book.

- If there is a way to have the Currently Reading display on the profile page, that would be a nice bonus.

23: "- get LTTL working nicely"

what is LTTL?

YAYYYY!!!!

*ahem*

I most likely won't use this much, since I usually finish my books in one or two days, but I'm really liking what it looks like!

50 - What do you mean by the status feature? Is that something separate from this currently reading thing?

>55 lquilter: LT time line

Add me to the list of those wanting LTTL integrated in LT. I'd also like a LTTL widget (something more compact than a full page) to represent my currently reading on my profile.

I don't currently use the currently reading check box. I did, but quit due to lack of functionality behind it. I do faithfully use the started and finished date and view catalog using these date frequently.

I am very much looking forward to the functionality you are planning.

I will continue to try and put in finished dates, but ignore currently reading and starting dates.

That's great. I don't think we'll be getting in your way.

#14 and #17 Have my wishlist for this feature down pat. I like to show what I am reading at the moment on my profile, where people come to leave notes.

Sounds good, but could I please add to the requests, if it is possible, to be able to turn 'currently reading' on and off from the library catalogue page and maybe automatically input start and finish dates there as like one of the earlier posters I do most of my editing of records there rather than on individual book pages (mainly because it seems to load rather more quickly than individual books).

I'll reiterate one of my points, because it has not been responded to:

- most importantly, if the dates are to be automatic, then we need to have personal local time settings, because getting the date associated with the server date/time would be annoying.

64> I'm guessing the dates would be populated using javascript, so that would use your PC's date/time (as JS executes client-side, not server-side). If I remember correctly, this was how the status checkboxes used to work when they were linked to the reading dates.

No. The book will have to be in your library in some way.

But there's always the possibility of having this ADD the book to your library. I think GR does things like that for rating etc.--if you rate a book, it becomes part of your library. I'm not saying this is what should happen here, but it could.

The key question I have is whether to make the status feature separate from this or not.

What do you mean by this? It seems completely redundant to have both a CR collection and unrelated status checkboxes. What would be the point?

What I would like:

To be able to check a box, without entering dates, and have my book's image appear in a "Currently reading" field on my profile. (If there is no image, then my default cover with the title/author.) And then to be able to remove it either by unchecking the box, or checking a second box that says, "no longer reading" (after all, I may not have "finished" it - I may have chucked it out the window in disgust after 20 pages).

I don't give a hoot about dates.

>66 _Zoe_:

No, whether to make currently reading status be a checkbox, or whether to make it a calculation based on the dates (ie., a book with a start date and no end date is current). I am arguing that it's separate. See 67, my feelings too. Except that I think that when you click on currently reading it auto-populates the date you're on. I find this imperfect, but don't know how to do better, since *some* people will expect it to do that.

I don't think I would use this feature, so feel free to discount my ideas.

I wonder whether each book reading period could have a little bit (twitter length) of text, which would appear along side it in the currently reading list. This could contain anything that fits:
- context (for work, for class, in a book club)
- identification (his or hers in a joint account)
- progress (stuck in long third chapter)

Why can't we have both? There should be a checkbox for people who want only a checkbox, but there should be optional integration with dates.

In other words, currently reading should be separate in that it exists as a separate entity from the dates and isn't entirely dependent on the dates. But the two should be connected for those who want them to be. And I'd argue that connected should be the default state, since you can do a lot more with date data than with currently-reading status alone.

The first mock-up in message one seems to accomplish most of this. Yes, the dates are there and will be filled in if you click the checkbox, but you can edit or remove the dates without removing the checkbox. The only thing that's not evident from that picture is whether there's a global option for enabling/disabling the connection to dates; there should be.

>70 _Zoe_:

Right. That's what I want. So, should it fill in the date by default when you click the currently reading button on the work page? What about on the catalog?

If you use the new feature to assign dates, and later go back into your catalog and change them, will that confuse the new feature the next time you use it, on the same book (re-read) ?

If you are going to store dates as strings, are you going to run something to convert the dates already in place to the new format ?

> 68

I don't have any particular objection to dates, as long as I don't have to think about them! I know they are important to others, so auto-filling would probably be a decent solution, if it would "auto-unfill" when I checked "gave up in despair".

;-))

The devil's in the details. What happens if you change the date in the catalog. Should the start and end dates show the currently-reading checkbox when you try to edit it? (I think yes. I think when you try to edit it, it gives you a lightbox pop-over thingy with the full interface, as shown in #1.)

I like the one-click fill in. Frankly, as far as dates are concerned, I'm only interested if it's easy. If it gets complicated, I no longer care.

I'm not as obsessive as some, but the list I keep on All Consuming meets my needs. You can go back to prior months where you can see I didn't really care and picked random dates. I'm fine with that - horseshoes, hand grenades and all that jazz.

I'm with others in that I'm going to be most likely to use this if there's something to tie into displaying this on my profile in some way. With covers.

As long as I can enter dates independently of the checkbox, then I think I'm fine.

(Basically, I want to be able to enter the correct date - if I finished a book two days ago, I want to enter that date, not have a checkbox enter today's date. If this all will work and be flexible, then go for it - I can't wait to to have more data as more people use dates.)

Should the start and end dates show the currently-reading checkbox when you try to edit it? (I think yes. I think when you try to edit it, it gives you a lightbox pop-over thingy with the full interface, as shown in #1.)

I think I'd rather sacrifice the connection of dates and CR in the catalogue than have to deal with a pop-up every time I enter a date. I like in-catalogue editing because it's quick and easy.

edit: though I'd be happy if adding a starting date would automatically put the book in the CR collection, maybe with a pop-up only the first few times?

Okay, don't shoot me if this has been answered, because I admit I just skimmed the most recent posts, but about msg 76. IS that going to be doable? If the date is the 14th, and I want to show that I started or finished it a few days ago, is that possible? (and maybe it already is, I don't do the dates field), but like when we check the "currently reading" box, will we be able to put in past dates?

... agree strongly w/ 76: If the date is autopopulated (only when you check "currently reading", right?) then that *must* be editable -- I'm not going to go into LT every day & check or uncheck what I'm currently reading; I'm going to go into it every few days & add in dates started / finished.

I think it is not necessarily true that everything with a start & no end is "currently reading". If that were the case, then I am reading hundreds of books. Or thousands. If it's a reference or an encyclopedia or something, I might note the first time I use it as "date begun" -- that would actually be quite handy, to know when I started using a particular reference. But there will be no last time.

Plus, of course, there are lots of things that I have affirmatively *quit* reading -- I stopped but I didn't "finish the book". To me, the end date field most intuitively means "finished the book" -- if finishing the book is possible (a novel or other narrative monograph, not reference) then there is a definitive date attached to it. By contrast there's not usually a definitive date attached to me quitting / abandoning something. I just put it down out of boredom, or getting interested in something else, and maybe I pick it up again, maybe I don't. There's no way I could assign a "finished reading" or "quit reading" date.

It would really make no sense for the dates not to be editable, so I haven't been worrying about it.

Overall I like this and will definitely use it, since I use the dates now. I have not attempted to add dates for items read before I started using the feature, however, and my recollection on most of these is fuzzy at best. That said, I really appreciate a model which allows me to represent a fuzzy date (e.g. 1986)! I understand that it is best for storage and later nifty feature purposes to interpret this as January 1, but is there some way (a simple toggle switch or color of display) which could indicate that the date was fuzzy versus exact? Maybe green for the month and day if only the year is entered? If parsing is difficult, then maybe show the whole field in the different color? I'm not a programmer and don't know how much of a pain such a feature would be, but I like the idea of preserving functionality for timelines and such with a January 1 guess while also preserving in some way the fuzziness of the data (like the green for LC and Dewey.) Thanks for soliciting input. :)

(1) Like this.
(2) Don't want lots of functionality. Keep it simple.

53>

Right. I think we need to change the "Your library" tab to "Your books."

I love that idea, not least because it would take the wind out of the sails of the apologists for cataloging random crap, who say "There exists a library somewhere that has cataloged a stuffed bobcat. Therefore, catalogs consisting of perfume bottles or clothing are perfectly acceptable on LibraryThing."

Edited for typo

1. What you think about what you see.
I like it. After viewing how it works in action with the video you posted. I feel the checkbox isn't needed as it serves the same purpose as the "Currently Reading" button.
2. How you use/plan to use currently reading
I already use dates to keep track of what I've read and when. So having a button would make it easier as long as it automatically fills in dates for me.
3. What would you like to see it do. Is this enough?
It'd be awesome if it was on the add books page. I tend to read a book as soon as I buy it so after I add it to my librarything, I go back to it within days to fill out dates for the finished book, rate it etc. Having this dropdown menu on the recently added section of the "Add Books" page would definitely save me time hunting down a book in my catalog.
4. Is it simple enough to use.
Yes.

a. Right now I enter Finished dates, but not Started dates. I realize that none of your planned changes will prevent me from continuing in this manner. I would like to know, however, whether any of the planned enhancements (charts, comparisons between libraries, etc.) will be useful for libraries containing only Finished dates?

b. Many of the books that I read are unlikely to be currently read by other members. I'd be interested in finding people who have a) ever read the book, or b) have read the book within a certain amount of time (2 months, etc.)

c. I currently use HTML coding to display both books that I am currently reading and books that I have recently read--however, I don't display all of the books that I read on my profile (although I do enter Finished dates for all books that I finish). When an automatic "covers on profile page" is introduced, will it be based on members of selected collections, so that we have complete control; or will it be based purely on the Started/Finished dates?

1. What you think about what you see.
I like the concept but I think it would get very annoying to have to go to the book page and use the popup (and I'd use the popup every time - see answer to 2.). If there were some way to access it in the catalog, that would be great. Actually, if entering the start date would automatically put it in Currently Reading BUT there was a checkbox (combo box?) available (and for this I would be willing to go to the book/edit page) for Abandoned/Reference/? (fill in your own data, like the Other Author choices), that would fulfill 99% of my needs. So Tim, I agree, the status and the dates are both useful and should exist independently.

2. How you use/plan to use currently reading
Currently I'm entering Started and Finished dates on my books. I'm completely ignoring the checkboxes because they don't do anything. I read fast enough that what I do is list the books I'm reading on my Palm, then go to LT every day or two (or three, or four...) and fill in the dates. I'd use the popup version 99% of the time - unless I picked up a book while I was on LT, clicked Currently Reading and went away to read it. Unlikely to happen often. It would be good a) if there were some way to indicate Abandoned (I suppose there could be a date for that, though it would be pretty much a guess) and b) if it were possible to enter a second (or subsequent) reading date through the catalog. Reference is less important to me - it might be fun, as lquilter suggested, to see when I started using a reference, but I probably just wouldn't enter dates for that. I'd like a Recently Read widget, for blogs and my profile, and I'd like the timeline.

3. What would you like to see it do. Is this enough?
IF you can enter more than one read date (if it doesn't overwrite but automatically starts a new record), this (the popup) would be handier than going to the full Edit page and scrolling down to the dates. I'd still rather have it accessible through the catalog.
Beyond that - timelines, widgets (including on my Profile) (not so much Currently Reading because I generally read a book too fast to track, but Recently Read), better sorting of books (if I enter them in read order, it should sort in read order - ie, 2 or more books in one day should appear in read order not title or author order (previous sort) as now (though that will be confusing if the time doesn't appear, and cluttered if it does...sigh)). Lots of neat things that can be done once there's some data in there. But that's for afterward...
Oh, and fuzzy searching. I'd love to be able to search for "april 2008" and get books I'd entered as "2008-04-05" (or whatever day). The string thing might be good (am I correct in reading Tim's comment in Msg 4 that if you _do_ use standard form it records it as a date, if you don't it records it as a string? Or what?), and I love caffron's notion of putting the fuzzy data in a different color (just the fuzzy part, or all of it).

4. Is it simple enough to use.
Yes, I think so. I wouldn't mind if it auto-populated when I clicked the checkbox, as long as it was easy to change - I'd be 90% of the time entering a date not too far away, so it would save me some typing. I'm not going to click the button - that won't be useful to me at all. It MUST save previous data (not overwrite dates, the way editing in the catalog does now), and I'd still rather have it accessible through the catalog (separate field, status related to dates, whatever) but this would be useful.

Wasn't the 'Your Books' vs 'Your Library' vs 'Your Catalog' vs 'All Books' argued out a couple times before? I kind of like Your Library for the-things-I-want-cataloged (and yes, lorax, that does mean just books or near-books for me), All Books (or All Your Books) for everything including discards...etc. But it doesn't really matter, that's just labels and once they're put in place everyone will learn them (with howls from various sides, of course...). IMHO.

I'm unlikely to use, currently reading, despite wanting all the options for dates.

Because it sometime during the few days that I am currently reading a book there is a requirement for me to be on LT, to have searched for that book, hit a button (and unless it's the day when I've actually started) edit the data, and then when I've finished the book ditto. However if it's just an auto population of date fields and all the other proposed functionality (profile, find others etc) can be done with manual date fields I'll be very happy.

Something I haven't seen brought up yet:

By default, I view my catalog by Date Started, and I take advantage of this field by entering projected start dates for future reads. (See my catalog.)

Will the new functionality allow this? Will my utilization of the dates in this fashion cause issues? Or just make a little more work on my end?

As I look at the two mock ups, I think the check box is preferred, however, I agree with everyone with wanting to edit the date myself.

Presently, I use a tag and the dates for start and finish as to whether I have read something or not. I sort my library by date finished frequently, so that I can tell what the last of my reading has been.

To me, how easy this will be to use will depend on location of the item. placing this only on the edit book page will make it buried and as such, not frequently used. Still being able to manipulate the dates from the cataloge will make this a much easier and friendilier feature. Especially if one view contains the dates of started and finished as defaults.

The new UI will be used in more places than just the book page. It was just an example.

And the dates will be editable when you open the window. It was just a mockup of the interface to get some feedback before putting work into it.

From the first ten or so posts, this looks good: it solves the fuzzy-date problem that is brought up every now and then, and it looks like it's one more step towards statuses that actually do something.

As for the four questions asked in the first post:
1. What you think about what you see.
As I said, I like it (as of the first ten posts).
2. How you use/plan to use currently reading
Strangely enough, I'll use it to say what I'm currently reading. :) I'll also fill in those fuzzy dates, too.
3. What would you like to see it do. Is this enough?
I'd like to try this out a bit to get a sense of what it can do first. It will be easier to come up with ways to improve it once I've gotten a feel for how well it already works.
4. Is it simple enough to use.
I think so, depending on where it's located

40> I do not understand what the plus and negative are doing next to currently reading. + equals currently reading? I saw that as adding to currently reading, but when you clicked on it, it became negative. Then you clicked on it again and it became positive and you then clicked on the other button that showed that you were currently reading it. So you click on negative to mark currently reading?

>92 MikeBriggs:

I read the plus as meaning turn on currently reading and the minus as turn off currently reading. Don't know if that's what was intended, though.

93> I'll just say that the plus/negative is quite confusing to me and leave it at that. heh. Just a note for designing the website. Maybe it is only confusing to me.

I’m with rsterling at #28. I read several books at a time, skipping from one to the other, often taking chapters out of sequence, setting some aside for weeks while reading others in a single sitting, etc. I would want to be sure that checking “currently reading” does not remove existing date info. Also, the display of “currently reading” info (on one’s own profile, or on the “also currently reading” lists of other users) should be optional. After that, whatever you want to do is fine.

I'm not really a fan of the +/- signs. They are a holdover from the previous/current UI that occupies that spot on the work page. I'd vote to remove the symbol myself.

How about a green tick when the system thinks you are currently reading, and no symbol otherwise?

Well, the whole button turns blue when you are currently reading, so a tick would be redundant. :)

Redundancy in UIs is not necessarily a bug. Traffic lights could be one color, with meaning reserved to top-middle-bottom alone. Or they could have just one light that changes color. Stop signs could be white, because the word "Stop" is already indicative.

Adding something to a collection is all about +, isn't it?

You just want it lit and that's that?

When people see the button will they think "this adds to my currently reading collection" or "this marks this book as one I'm currently reading"?

Should the opposite function be "this removes this from my currently reading collection" or "this marks this as not currently being read"?

The UI in the first message doesn't imply anything about collections to me, so I didn't interpret the + and - that way, they were just symbols.

I think if you want people to make that connection, there needs to be something more.

(Don't ask me what.)

>99 timspalding: I agree, the more indicators the better. Besides, I would assume color blind people would like a little more clue than just having the button change color.

>100 r.orrison: and others: I also agree - the +/- symbols are not self-evident. In the flickr demo, it looks like the + sign will be there when the Currently Reading button is off and the - sign will be there when the button is on. Somehow, this seems counterintuitive. (Actually, it seems fine when I describe it, but when I watch the demo of it working IRL it seems counterintuitive.) I also noticed in the flickr demo that even though the Currently Reading button was turned on then off, when the menu was opened I don't think it was on the correct status? Or, if it was correct, then the symbols are even more confusing because that would mean I had them mixed up.

I can't do mock-ups, but what about the button as Chris designed it, but instead of the +/- symbols, actually have a checkbox that is either checked or not? So you'd have the button, like you do now, but maybe right in front of the words Currently Reading you'd have a box that is checked or not.

I agree a check could work.

Yes, a checkmark is much better than a plus sign.

Plus signs in a lot of contexts now indicate simply "more" -- like, click to generate a pulldown menu; click to get another field; and so forth. Checkmarks in checkboxes pretty much universally and solely indicate a binary toggle. (AFAIK.)

That said, I don't have an opinion about the appropriate semiotics for this, because I've gotten a bit confused over whether it adds to collections, sets status, loans the book to your best friend, dog-ears the pages, etc.

Oh. I wondered how that page got folded. *shakes fist at Librarything* I pushed a button and Tim personally came to my house and dog-eared my book!

(Mr. Spalding to me, of course, but I'm doing humor here people!; poorly, but eh)

I have to admit this is the first time that I have offered my opinion on the functionality of the site. so please bear with me because I love this place!

1. What you think about what you see.
I love what you have done. Checkboxes are so user friendly just one click and you are done. That said, I would also like to be able to use the Currently reading button so that it will automatically fill in the start date for a book because before I open a book, I go to LT and enter the start date.
I, personally, use the Dates started and date read all the time.

2. How you use/plan to use currently reading
I would like to be able to show the visitors to my profile page what I am currently reading so I think that I would like a way for the check box to activate a line in my profile. I know that others have mentioned that and it is the only thing that I don't see in the example. I would also like to see this added to the show quick edit menu. However, if it isn't, that doesn't mean that I won't use it, because I will. I just prefer not to have to go to the edit book page if I don't have to. If I can go to one place and get all my data entered at the same time, that would be the best.

3. What would you like to see it do. Is this enough?
I would like to see it populate my profile with the list/cover of the book.

4. Is it simple enough to use.
Yes, I think so.

FOR ALL THE PEOPLE WHO WORK SO DILIGENTLY TO MAKE LIBRARYTHING THE TREMENDOUS SITE THAT IT IS, YOU HAVE MY THANKS!
I APOLOGIZE IF ANYONE MAKES YOU THINK THAT YOUR EFFORTS ARE NOT APPRECIATED!

Much closer. Much closer.
I finished the actual implementation of the Currently Reading panel last night and tied it into collections today. All is working well. Just a few more things to do before we go live!

Another question for everybody:
In the drop-down panel there are two methodologies that could be pursued....
1. When you open the panel things are already filled in/checked/unchecked based on what the system thinks you will do.
2. When you open the panel the current settings are reflected in the panel.

So, to make that more (or maybe less) clear.... say you have a book marked as currently reading. When you click the panel to open it, should the "Currently reading" checkbox be unchecked because that's most probably what you are coming to do? Likewise, should the date finished field be filled in for you with the current date?

Or, if you AREN'T currently reading a book and open the panel, should the checkbox be preselected for you and the starting date be pre-filled with today's date or not?

I can see both ways. It's a half-glass-full/half-glass-empty thing. I'm tending toward #2 for the checkbox and #1 for the dates...that's odd, but it makes more sense when you actually use the panel.

I would prefer your option #1 for both dates and the checkbox. If I want single-click convenience, I'll click the main part of the button (not the down arrow). If I click the down arrow, I don't want it to do anything quite yet. I think of the down arrow as "show me more about this", not "do something but also give me more options".

Without seeing it live, it's a bit hard to know for sure, but I think I'd rather see #2. I would rather fill in what I want than have the system think it knows what I want. I would expect to open the panel and make the changes myself.

I am strongly against the system trying to predict what I'll want to do; it would drive me buggy to have the wrong thing selected half the time. For instance, if I opened the panel to see when I started reading something, but not to change the status to finished, it would not be helpful for the system to change things on me. Likewise, if I open the panel for a book I've just started reading, I do NOT want today's date in it, since it might be yesterday, or last Thursday, or whatever. Yeah, it's the same number of keystrokes to change it to the right date, but it's a nuisance to remember that I have to.

I vote for letting the user make their own choices. (I guess/hope? that works out to #2.)

*agrees with 110* I definitely don't want the system automatically filling it it or changing it trying to guess what I want. If I open the panel, it's because I want to change it. *Myself*.

I strongly agree with the last two posts. I hate it when the computer tries to think for me. Even if it guesses right, I look at it and think "Why did I come here when it is already the way I wanted it?" Down this road lies MS Word and madness.

I wouldn't want it to fill in the date automatically, but would love to have a shortcut for entering today's date. The ERP system I use at work lets you type "t" into a field, and when you tab off it fills in the current date. Even "today" would be better than having to look it up. (Yes, I often have to look up today's date. The clock in my status bar is handy but really annoying when the popup with the date doesn't pop up.)

Of course, you'd have to translate that "t" into the first letter of the word "today" in the site language. Maybe if you put in "0" it could fill in today, and if you put in "-1" it would fill in yesterday, and of course "1" would be tomorrow...

Good stuff. Just as I had hoped.
I think we'll go with #1, ie the system won't try to predict.

The cool thing about the date fields is that they will support various non-date entries that can be parsed into dates. We get these for "free" from PHP's date parsing ability:
now, yesterday, today, tomorrow

But I'll probably fill in today's date for date started anyway. Details. None of this is unchangeable after we go live. But it helps to have it as close as we can get it.

Strong opinion to not have the system uncheck something I've checked because it thinks that's what I'm going to do. I will be very confused: did I previously have it checked? or not? I may think, yes, good, I wanted to uncheck it, and then close my window without committing any changes. Also, it will make troubleshooting problems rather hard! and also I may not in fact be wanting to change anything; just to make sure I've got it right, or just see the details.

Plus, if it's tied to the timestamp, then you have another question to answer: does the timestamp attach when the field is opened and autopopulated, or only when the user commits the data?

I care a lot less about the timestamp. Most of the time I will be going in a few days later and adding the date, but so long as it's done with a "this is the default (and it is colored green) but click in the field and the default clears out" then I will be very happy indeed.

eta: oops ... opened this tab & then wrote comment before CD's #115 was in. sorry for unnecessary comment!

>115 conceptDawg: cD said: "But I'll probably fill in today's date for date started anyway."

?? Does that mean the system will fill in the Date Started automatically? I'm a bit confused. I'd really rather not have the system do anything for me - I'm a glutton for punishment.

Whoops, I just realized I mixed the numbers up. When I said I prefer option #1 I meant #2! I think I described it well enough though... heh

>114 r.orrison:

rorrison, if you have the screen space to spare, make your taskbar double-height - the date will stay visible in the taskbar without having to mouseover.

Okay, Chris, now I'm confused - you just said
"#1, ie the system won't try to predict."

but before you said
"1. When you open the panel things are already filled in/checked/unchecked based on what the system thinks you will do."

So which is which?

Sorry. I meant #2. Long day.
But I am going to fill in date started when you have an empty record going in. It's pretty obvious that you didn't already have something in there so there really isn't any room for confusion in that instance.

So we'll have to go in and delete the date each time if we don't want it?

Yes. I'm going out on a limb here to say that 99% of the people would rather have the date filled in than not in that single particular instance.

The only people who won't are those that don't want dates in their CR data at all, although I'm not sure why having them should be a bother.

Now I'm confused about the "going in there" . Does this mean we will not be able to manage reading dates from the catalog as we can do now? I don't mind going in to a book page to check a box for currently reading, but do like to be able to refer to reading dates of previous books read or reading when entering dates for a new book, which is much easier to do from the catalog.

Behavior in this panel is restricted to this panel alone. I'm still working on the catalog functions.

I'm actually happy about having the date filled in to something not too far from what I want...that's fine. But one question - in Msg 121, you say this will happen when you have an empty record. That means only for the first reading of any particular book? That is, if I start and finish a book and then open the panel to put in another set of dates (start the book again), it won't autopopulate? I don't actually care about the autopopulation, I'm just nervous about the possibility of it overwriting dates (since we currently have that problem with the catalog editing).

So if I don't open it, it won't populate, right? I get LOTS of books that I don't read right away, so having today's date on books I may not get to for years would be seriously bad.

But I am going to fill in date started when you have an empty record going in. It's pretty obvious that you didn't already have something in there so there really isn't any room for confusion in that instance.

What do you mean "going in"? Is this only when we open the CR box?

I do not want it pre-filled with information. And definitely do not want to find a finished date filled in for me. Most of the time I do not even note the book is finished on here until days have passed.

I take it the bottom section of dates is being removed then? Would hate for that section to become a drop down menu. If you need the room, you need the room, but still . . ..

"But I am going to fill in date started when you have an empty record going in. "
Also I almost never actually get to the book to fill in starting date until later. Days later. Would not want it to auto add in that days date.

"The only people who won't are those that don't want dates in their CR data at all, although I'm not sure why having them should be a bother."

Um . . . no. I want dates in there, and I don't want it autofilled.

"Yes. I'm going out on a limb here to say that 99% of the people would rather have the date filled in than not in that single particular instance."
Judging from this thread alone I'd strongly disagree with 99% of the people prediction. Maybe it is 98%, maybe 8%, but I doubt it is 99%

123>

The only people who won't are those that don't want dates in their CR data at all, although I'm not sure why having them should be a bother.

Here's the reason.

It's not so much having a "started" date in my CR, it's having "started" and "finished" dates for a tiny fraction of the books in my catalog, and not for the rest. For a lot of my books I couldn't even fill in the year when I read them, so they'll always have blank dates. I'd much rather have no dates than have just a few, which is (1) untidy and annoying and (2) suggests that I've only actually read those for which I have dates.

130> Point (2) isn't much of an excuse. Tag them "read" or put them in your Books Read Collection.

I don't think it really matters whether people have good "excuses" for their views. This seems like such a simple thing that it should be possible to satisfy everyone, regardless of why they want what they want.

I'm still not clear when exactly the date is going to be auto-filled, but I think people should have the option to turn it off.

131>

I don't need to "excuse" my use of my own catalog to you or to anyone else here, thank you very much. Chris asked why people might object to people having dates filled in, and I answered him.

Besides, I don't plan on having a "Books Read" collection. If people can't figure out from a "Unread" and a "Read but Not Owned" what the default status in my library is, I'm not going to hold their hands. YMMV.

Please, please, PLEASE don't autofill dates. I've said it a couple of times, but have some consideration for those of us who aren't in the same time zone as the server. Either that, or let us select what timezone we do live in as part of our profile customization.

134 > the javascript would do the filling in so it should use your computers clock.

133>> I don't have the dates of all the books that I have read so I have entered 12/31/04 as a default date for any book that I have read before I started keeping track. You might use 1/1/00 or any date just so you know what it is and then there is no problem with the date being missing. Just an idea from what I do. Personally, it's up to you if you want to leave it blank.
I would like to have it autofill once you click on it the first time. So I'm happy!

I would also like to chime in against the autofilling of dates on this panel. When the user clicks on the icon beside one of the date fields, will not a small calendar control pop up with the current date highlighted? If so, then it will not take any mental effort to enter the current date (and only a click or so, for those counting mouse-clicks).

136>

Not being a total moron, I'm familiar with the idea of default dates.

Wrong data is even worse than incomplete data so far as I'm concerned. Why is it what my decision not to use the date feature inspires such backlash, with people suggesting all sorts of perversions just so that I don't get to do what I want to do, which is LEAVE THE FIELD BLANK?

>138 lorax:
I agree. I'd rather have incomplete/nebulous/fuzzy data than wrong data. If incomplete/nebulous/fuzzy isn't an option, I would rather have no data than wrong data.

On other occasions, I've actually pulled examples from my own reading and purchasing habits to support this: between this catalog and my extended collections (which will not be merged until we have collections and which may be found easily enough from my profile), I have books that I obtained on the obious variations on default dates. (I even finished Sense and Sensibility on New Year's Day.)

137> A . . . calendar? I really don't want to have to play with a calendar if all I want to do is put in 1999-01-29. gah. trying to move the calendar back to 1999 month by month.

PLEASE NO AUTO-FILL!!!!!!!!

Sorry about the caps and exclamation-points, but I think it's serious enough for that. LibraryThing is so awesome about letting users do what they want, input what they want, having control over their catalogue, etc, PLEASE don't ruin that by auto-filling dates and making it that much more annoying and complicated. I do NOT want the site assuming that, just because I click on something or open a panel, that automatically means I want a date in there!

>138 lorax:

I hear you, lorax.

Although I've been recording my reading for 25+ years, I've only kept track of the date that I finish each book, not the date that I started reading it.

I'm anticipating that, as LT adds more and more functionality associated with reading dates, I will be forced to choose between entering bad data (fake start dates), maintaining inconsistent data (start dates on some books, but not others) or not being able to take advantage of new capabilities as they are introduced.

I also realize that this is my problem, not LT's--provided, that is, that upcoming interface modifications don't limit my options.

Yep, please no auto-fill. Not for date started, not at all, unless there's a global feature that lets you decide to turn auto-fill off and on for your account. But default off.

I'm still not clear about when/where this autofill is going to happen, but I think I'd still argue for default on. For people who don't care either way, the site might as well end up with more data rather than less, and the users themselves might eventually be happy to see the fun things they can do with the data.

Please no auto-fill. At most an autofill with default OFF.

I don't want LT adding wrong data to my record by accident, because I happened to open something I didn't usually use, and don't realize that I have to undo something to not end up with bad data.

138 lorax

I wasn't trying to tell you that you can't leave your fields blank. I was only telling you what I do for my library since I use the date fields to determine if I have read a book or not. So If I enter an old book, I use what you call a default date. To me it is a date that shows that as of that date I had read that book. To me that is not wrong data. Maybe to you it is, and apologize if that causes you a problem.

I'm throwing in a vote for either NO auto-fill or the option to turn it off.

I'm still getting to know some of the features on the site. I click on things all of the time just to see where they will lead and what they will let me do. When I click a down arrow, I expect to see a menu of options. If I suddenly ended up with data I didn't intend to enter I would be confused and irked.

Here's my feedback on the original 4 questions and a few points brought up by the previous posters:

Autofill: No, definitely do not want. Not only are there time zone issues, but also while I love LT and use it frequently, I don't interact with it everyday. The odds that I log on to update it every time I change my current reading is vanishingly small. Therefore it is very unlikely that today's date is the current date of my reading update and I would just have to change it all the time.

Calendar option: I like it as an option, very handy.

Multiple current reading books: Absolute necessity for me, I'm never reading less than three books, usually between 5 and 10. If I'm only allowed to list one, I'd probably just skip this function. YMMV.

Original Four Questions:

1. What you think about what you see.

I like it, although I would only want to have it also an optional field. It seems simple and interesting. If I'm interested in a person's library, it would be a neat addendum to see what they are reading now.

2. How you use/plan to use currently reading

Like all "current status" functions of social sites, I will start out using a lot, have fun with it, then forget to update it for weeks at a time. However, I think its a fun function, will draw people into LT, and will be used much more diligently by people other than me.

3. What would you like to see it do. Is this enough?

Actually, I'd really like to see a little space in the box for adding thoughts/comments on the books as it's being read. I love the thinking that people go through as they read a book. It's very different from the ultimate "review" that people would post after they have finished a book. I'd like to see a little optional field, with limited space, to post an update or comment as the book is being read. Since some people will find this function annoying, I'd only recommend if the field can be constructed as optional, and the option can be set for the whole account, or a whole collection. But if it is possible as an option, I think some people would really have fun with that, and it would be another level of interaction for LT subscriber's to see and read each other's thoughts about books and reading.

4. Is it simple enough to use.
Yep.

Last Thoughts: Good God, I want the Collections feature so bad!!!! I'm not complaining, I love LT and thank you all for all the work you've put into it. Just saying I'm gonna really really really be happy when I have it.

Hi. I am glad to see that this is underway because I was wondering why I couldn't sort books by "read" or "to read" status.

Some comments:
1. What you think about what you see.
This looks relatively straightforward; are there plans for having a "on loan" box if someone else is currently reading a book?

2. How you use/plan to use currently reading
I will likely start using it after it goes into effect for the next book I read. I am too lazy to go back and try and remember what year it was when I first read "black beauty," etc.

3. What would you like to see it do. Is this enough?
I think there should be a box for "Didn't ever finish" as opposed to simpy "currently read" being a binary choice--say you don't finish a book and then years later are looking for unread books in your library and say "hey, I never started reading this one!" That way you can differentiate. I suppose you could put a start date in but then if you don't finish it because you don't like it, as opposed to stopping it and meaning to go back later, there's no good easy way of differentiating that.

4. Is it simple enough to use.

I think so.

I like the idea of being able to mark a book 'quit' or 'did not finish'. To me the ending date is the date I finish the book, not the date I stop reading.

I put this sort of information in private comments, also notes that I might like to read a book 'sometime' but don't want to add the book to my 'to read' list quite yet. If you search your library for keywords, such as "not finished' or 'sometime' that you use for private comments you can bring up a list of books in your catalog with those words. Tags would work too but are more public.

I am not interested in private comments and I already use tags for 'Quit". but I am not interested in a work around, I am asking for a new feature.

Sorry if this has been answered and I've overlooked it, but how customizable will currently reading be? For instance, if there's a reading timeline, can I specify that it only shows books read from a particular collection rather than all collections?

So, I've somehow managed to successfully miss this thread for a month now...

I'm not sure if I'd use this feature or not, although I certainly see that it would be useful to those who are interested in tracking what they've read and when (among other incentives).

As for the assumption of dates, etc, I'm in agreement that it should be dropped, but there ought to be a formatting example shown at all times. As a computer programmer, I'm quite in favor of YYYMMDD.

I also haven't seen anything about REreading a book. Perhaps I may have missed it. I happen to be doing that right now - the rereading, not the missing. Is there going to be a second read record for that, or is the original one going to be overwritten?

153:
That's pretty much a display-time issue. Since we haven't started development (re-development?) of the timeline yet I can't really say what will or won't be in it. But that ability is certainly possible with the data.

154:
They are separate records. It keeps track of re-reading dates too. And there is formatting samples under each text box. YYYY-MM-DD

I really, really like the current ability to enter dates in other formats in the catalogue, and I hope we aren't going to lose that.

We are no longer going to deal with a user setting dealing with EURO and US date formats. We're trying to make all date fields on the site use the same format and this is the ISO-accepted way to do just that. It's the same for all involved.

That being said, if you use US-formatted dates they will probably still work because of the way that dates are being parsed. We're just not officially backing those because we have to pick our battles when it comes to code complexity.

When Collectons go live there will be a collection for Currently Reading so you will be able to see it in the Collections column. Or you could switch the view on your library to just see the books in the Currently Reading collection.

I've also been working on a currently reading column for the catalog. It just has the CR menu widget in it so you can toggle CR on/off or set dates, etc.

>160 conceptDawg:
That sounds neat. I hope it also displays all the date ranges that a book was being read. So, for instance, if you read a book a couple times, you'd see a
"startdate1 - enddate1
startdate2 - enddate2"
sort of thing.

161> That would be invaluable.

Will we still be able to display the separate date columns that we have now? And will the dates still be shown in a nice, readable format, even if we have to enter them differently?

Logically, 2009-18-3 makes sense. But it's still not nearly as nice to look at as Mar 18, 2009.

Just go by star date. Don't be such a bunch of Terran chauvinists.

163>

2009-18-03 (YYYY-DD-MM) makes no sense whatsoever, and it's not a format I've ever seen used. 2009-03-18 (YYYY-MM-DD) makes a great deal of sense. Written dates are unambiguous enough, but there are two commonly used formats (DD/MM/YYYY and MM/DD/YYYY) that put the year last, so those are unclear.

Epoch seconds for everyone!

I'm nauseated by this European cultural imperialism.

>165 lorax: Yes, obviously I meant 2009-3-18. I think that just goes to demonstrate my point: I could carelessly reverse those two numbers because it requires an extra bit of thought, even though it's not at all hard or complicated. On the other hand, Mar. 18, 2009 is completely automatic and intuitive. When I look at my catalogue, I want the data to be presented in as intuitive a way as possible.

Of course, in Europe they would actually write it out 18 Mar 2009....

The obvious (if not necessarily practical) solution would be to have a user setting on how you want dates displayed throughout the site. This is a pretty standard feature on most message boards/wikis/etc.

>168 saltmanz: Yes, and I'd be just as happy if the catalogue displayed it that way. It's still instantly understandable.

>169 saltmanz: That would be very nice.

>167 _Zoe_: Well, "Mar. 18, 2009" is intuitive for us North Americans, but not for most of the rest of the world.

Personally, I'm okay with the ISO standard - I've used it for years when naming my computer files because I've found it's easier to sort and easier to scan quickly for the date I'm looking for. I found that I got used to using it and "seeing" it pretty quickly.

Of course, in Europe they would actually write it out 18 Mar 2009....

Hey, don't look at me; I wanted Star Dates.

30.023017 standard galactic rotations after the Big Bang...

>167 _Zoe_: entering dates as 18 Mar 2009 is intuitive for those doing genealogical research too, and that's what I've become used to doing in everyday use. I don't mind entering YYYY MMM DD for LT, less confusing by far than the NA (American?) MMM DD YYYY. I don't mind dates displaying as Mar 18, 2009 as is the current LT practice even when using EURO format entry.

About half the time I write dates as in 18 Mar 09 and the other half as 3/18/09. But I have no trouble with entering 2009-03-18 in CK.

Didn't Tim say it was going to be a text field so you could enter it any way you want, so you could put in fuzzy dates? (like May 2008, or just 2008, or even just College if all you can remember is that you read the book in college).

Yes. You can enter it any way you want it and we'll store it. We'll also try to turn it into a sensible date for sorting purposes. That will work better if you don't say "college."

What if I said 1979-1983?

#177 timspalding

Thank you for explaining the text field can be entered as suits us best, within reasonable parameters. As someone who has had to deal with all the date field configurations mentions recently in this thread, I hate the MM-DD-YYYY when it is numerical displayed ... it is nothing but a nightmare to deal with. Because I have routinely dealt with spreadsheets data, YYYY-MM-DD numerically has become second nature to me (as being easiest for the software to sort by), but everyone has different preferences.

>177 timspalding: When you say you'll store it, does that mean it will display in the form we enter?

>180 _Zoe_:, 181

Right, as quoted. I can imagine that, if we use the data somewhere statistically—for a reading timeline, for example, it may have to use the derived forms. But on book pages, work pages, edit pages, your catalog and etc. we can show the original, undigested and possibly un-parseable form.

Sorry for the excessive clarification; I just want to make sure that nothing will be lost in this change because I consider the dates one of the most important features on the site.

As long as I can still display the dates in their current form and sort by the individual date columns, I'll be happy.

>169 saltmanz:

And of course, the logical extension that you can specify your own local timezone, which is a mandatory requirement if LT is going to automatically populate 'current' dates as has been threatened elsewhere.

184> Ooh, that's a very a good point!

184>

No, it's not "mandatory".

It's "would be nice", and people will complain if they don't get it. But it isn't mandatory in the sense that one can't logically happen without the other -- they can give "current" dates without timezone specifications, they'll just be wrong in some cases.

Perhaps they can use the data on LT Local or on profiles for that? It would, of course, require a lot of people to put something there who have not done so; but maybe they could get away with just saying, say, "Pacific Standard Time" or whatever :-)

>184 Noisy:, et al: I think they've said in the past that it will use your current browser's javascript to determine your localtime and will use that.

We are not currently using time offsets with the dates in CR. That is certainly something that we can work towards but I don't think that we need to hold up Collections launch to deal with it. If it gets done then it's great but if not then I'll try and get it worked in as soon as possible.

Nothing will be lost in the transition or using the new feature. All previous dates will be transitioned to the new scheme and all new data will be preserved just as you typed it in. So you can use any date format that you like.

The only gotcha is that if you don't use a parseable date format then you might be left out in cold when we start adding features that take advantage of normalized CR dates (timeline for instance).

So, what do you consider parseable? Is "Mar 15, 2009" parseable?

A couple more questions:

Will entry date still display as it does now in the catalogue?

And will we be able to keep all our other dates displaying in their current catalogue form (assuming it's parseable)? Needless to say, I would not want to be forced to edit hundreds of dates.

So, what do you consider parseable? Is "Mar 15, 2009" parseable?

Yes. Indeed, "Yesterday" even parses. But 2/1/09 will be read in the US way, I think.

Will entry date still display as it does now in the catalogue?

Entry date won't change—nor will it be changeable.

Other dates will be in their current catalog form. When you edit them, it will give you the full UI, with start and stop dates, rather than just showing the one or the other.

Thanks for clarifying! Everything sounds good.