Shafted

Bearing the volatility of currency markets in general, I still think us Folio Funketts in Australia are being pumped something rotten for our coin, than you other guys.

Dracula UK price 26.95 pounds sterling

Dracula Australia price $75

That is almost three times sterling

Considering if I was allowed to buy the book in sterling, like I do with amazon, book depository etc, I would get it for around $55.

That is just one book.

Imagine the cost buying volumes like LE Pepys etc

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

>1 LesMiserables: - Jeez... You Aussies seriously have it bad. Hope it gets better, sooner rather than later.

>1 LesMiserables:

The exchange rate between the UK and Australia is 3 to 1?

>3 Django6924:

No. The official Forex rate is around £1 = AUD$1.99

However we are being charged around £1 = AUD$2.80

:-(

I have just sent a mail to the FS asking them to clarify their pricing structure for us antipodeans.

I have stated the facts and asked them why we cannot pay in sterling, like you do with the Book Depository or Amazon UK when shop with them.

I will be interested in their answer.

>4 LesMiserables: That's a 40% premium.

Here in the US, we're paying about £1 = US $2, while the exchange rate is something like £1 = US $1.67. That's about a 20% premium.

I think some FS members are subsidizing other FS members (and you know who you are...).

Os.

Yes I think it unfair. Grossly so.

I'm in Australia and have been longing to buy Les Miserables , but at A$475 incl postage, I would feel rather cheated.

Does anyone know if I can get around the FS's unfair pricing by buying directly from the member's room when next in London?

To all concerned: please send a polite but concerned email to FS customer service in London about this matter. The more we complain, the greater chance of redress.

>8 bot_garden:
Yes when you consider the premium on the whole deal we are paying around AUD$100.

And AUD$100 can go a long way. A nice edition or two sale books?

>8 bot_garden:

Certainly, if you bought in person in the Members Room in London you would pay the domestic UK rate. In fact you might even be able to reclaim the VAT on leaving the UK.

>11 Quicksilver66:

Indeed I think that may be possible to do so at the departure port.

>11 Quicksilver66: / 12

Except that in the UK books are VAT exempt, so you wouldn't have been charged it in the first instance. ;-)

> 13

That's right - I had forgotten that. Government is not inherently stupid after all !

> "Government is not inherently stupid after all!"

Or perhaps it is and just slips up occasionally and does something sensible in spite of itself.

>13 HuxleyTheCat: Ahhhh!!!

> 14

Given the state of public finances in the UK, I fully expect to be paying VAT on books within the next 18 months. Also, I'm not entirely sure that I would agree with the second half of your comment (even without a 'The' at the beginning).

>11 Quicksilver66:
Thanks Quicksilver66. I think that's what I'll be doing!

> 17

Its just the closet anarchist coming out in me !! I have a healthy suspiscion and distrust of all governments but I guess they are a necessary evil.

Lloydville's comment is probably closest to the truth.

Capitalism! My guess (only a guess) is that they charge that much because they've found that people are willing to pay it.

Maybe they think that Americans and Aussies are willing to pay more for British books, or that (since British used book shops are flooded with FS books) British people are not willing to pay more.

Writing a letter is a fair response, of course, as is voting with your feet.

Then again, maybe they're unsophisticated and can't react quickly to the currency market. But I doubt that's what's happening.

>1 LesMiserables: LesMiserables, "pumped something rotten for our coin" conjures up some disturbing (and humorous)images.......
You definitely have a way with words "down under"!
Cheers!

>21 SaxonWarlord: Ha Ha :-)

It never occurred to me until you had brought it up, how that may be interpreted.

I am however a Scot, with as thick a west coast accent as you might hear in Australia.

As an English teacher I try my best to instil in my students those concepts of imagery and personification. Perhaps I go too far.

I have heard from the society. They say that as the Folio Society 'has an office' in my country of residence (Australia), then I must buy from there.

(But wait for it...) This is to enable customers in avoiding currency and transaction fees!

Great. I avoid these non existent fees and pay a HUGE premium for the privilege.

Funny how I can order from amazon and Book Depository and pay in sterling (and even my local currency now on amazon) and pay no fees, but get the same deal as everyone else.

Parity?

I know I can vote with my feet, but that is hardly the point.

As a side note to this discussion, having gotten lots of books from England, I don't think there is any way the shipping cost can actually be as little as $5.00 to ship these heavy books to the U.S. That's far, far less than anything I've paid purchasing a book from England from other sources like ebay. I've always assumed some of the shipping costs were "built-in" to the cost of the books for Americans.

Re #24: I suspect you are right. The "shipping charges" on my Folio bills seem very fair considering the weight and the excellent packaging. But when I made the mistake of buying a book one time from a used bookseller in the UK, the shipping and handling charges exceeded the cost of the book itself (the book, by the way, was the Folio edition of The Unbearable Bassington).

24: I agree, as long as you're buying one book at a time. But as far I can tell, there's no break when you buy six books or so and have them all shipped in the same box. Maybe the multiple orders subsidize the one-offs?

23: I guess I just think that being cheated/shafted/treated unfairly is a different thing from being told the price upfront, agreeing to it, then being delivered the item as you expected it.

Not that I completely disagree with your feelings. Not at all. Part of this is trying to convince myself to take a philosophical view. (I'm paying more here in the US than I would in the UK, and I'm trying to take the view that I was ok with the prices before I knew that).

>26 gistak:

Yes gistak. I must be careful as to make clear that I have not been cheated in any way shape or form; knowing full well price and postage costs prior to the order being placed.

Still, one chokes on discovering that my kinsmen are paying significantly lower prices than I.

FS obviously operate from a pounds sterling basis and cost and price books according to this currency.

Quite simply, adding a HUGE premium to Australian members for no other reason than a bigger margin is hard to swallow.

I wonder how much of this is due to the volatility of exchange rates. Looking up on the Aussie-pound relationship on a website, I see it hit A$2.45 last October while the US$ went to $2.10 not so long ago. For businesses much larger than the Folio Society that poses huge problems when you have such price swings. The last thing FS wants to do is price at A$2 only for the rate to go back to A$2.45 in a few weeks. I guess the question is how often it should adjust the foreign prices.

>28 khaa9481:

But they need not have a denominated foreign currency.

Let us purchase in sterling!!! - PARITY

Problem solved.

>24 maisonvivante: Gistak, $5.00 a book is still nowhere near what Royal Mail charges to send a book, whether the books are in the same box or not. For instance, a five pound box costs (using the cheapest option) over 13 pounds to send by Royal Mail. A five pound box could hold 2 or 3 books at the most, meaning it costs Folio over 4 pounds (around 7 or 8 dollars) a book to send (not including packaging and labor costs), which is definitely not covered fully by the $5.00 a book charge. This cost continues consistently up the postage price chart, whether you are sending a 10 pound box, 15 pound box, etc.

In other words, we Americans are getting a pretty great deal on the shipping charges, even if the prices of the book are a little more costly.

Aussies pay at least AUD $8.50 per book shipping (and there must various shipping options in the UK, as the Book Depository somehow manages to send books airmail with no shipping costs at all), and even more for other books (e.g. Chaucer is $34 shipping - not that I bought it, but I did put it in my shopping basket once just for the virtual thrill of *almost* owning it).

I agree with LesMis - if we could purchase in Sterling (or even USD) we'd be sooooo much better off. I think we should petition FS to give us the option!

I'll say this for FS--I think they do try to be fair--I'll never forget that during that relatively brief but shining year or so when the loony was trouncing the USD, they decreased Canadian prices across the board.

It did not last, but it was a handsome gesture.

>32 LolaWalser:

Well I wish they would do this for Australian members.

Can't see it though.

>31 skullduggery:

I sent an email to them regrading costs in general and the lunacy of paying in a local currency that swings wildly against sterling.

I think almost all people now purchase with a visa debit or credit card, so we should be able just to purchase in sterling thus avoiding the awful imbalance in the quoted AU + GB prices.

Just looking at the website again as I haven't renewed yet but I am so put off with the prices they charge us here in Australia, it sticks in my throat.

The History of England: From the Accession of James II (buckram-bound edition)

UK £165

AU $450

The official average forex exchange rate is around £1 = $1.98

What the?

If one looks at purchasing the Doomsday Facsimile in Australia, the Folio Society pockets a cool......wait for it.........

$2850 dollars premium over the forex rate when compared with the UK-AU prices.

>35 LesMiserables:
Yeah, that would put me off of buying any of the nicer editions. The premium on the Domesday would pay for the trip to the Member's Room.

Os.

>36 Ealhmund:

I hadn't looked at it that way, but your right of course Os.

A return airfare and you would still have change in your book to buy a few extra books in the members room.

I'm an Australian who has just rejoined after 30 years. While I love their books and want to continue as a member, I was amazed at the disparity in conversion rates raised above when I looked at their online catalogue.

>37 LesMiserables:. Have you heard anything further from the FS? Is it possible that they think that antipodeans can't do simple multiplication?

> 38

Post 23 above. Not good news I'm afraid.

>39 LesMiserables:

I thought they might have responded to the email referred to in post 34 above.

It would make sense if they kept a warehouse in Australia, but if it only pays for someone to answer the phone it makes little sense (other than on the basis that they are making a nice profit).

My strategy will obviously have to be to buy the cheapest 4 books and source any others I want from sales, ebay, etc.

PS, I'm astonished about the wealth of information on dealing with the FS, among other issues, on this website. A little strike for economic democracy.

> 40

No worries mate. I would urge you and everyone else who has to pay through the nose in Australia, to send an email to the FS and urge them to either to let us pay in sterling or to have parity in pricing.

Thanks

> 41

Have you seen the British Library online shop?
http://shop.bl.uk/mall/BritishLibrary/
They sell about 40 Folio Society titles, including Limited Editions. Prices are in pounds and they deliver internationally, including to Australia. I just bought a new facsimile of the Book of Common Prayer for about 2/3 of the price I would pay from Folio Society. Many nice facsimile editions from other publishers too.

>42 buckram:
LesMis,
Another FS member from Oz! Perhaps we can get him/her on the map?

Os.

>42 buckram:

Interesting, the prices are in some cases quite different from FS direct. Generally a small discount would not be meaningful, as FS allows books to bought in combinations with offers that make them cheaper in reality than their face-values - however, Night Thoughts (which doesn't interest me much, but seems to excite other devotees) is on at 700GBP instead of 1,050GBP (my pound sign is malfuctioning) -in this case the discount is huge, and unlikely to be bridged by the usual combinations/renewals/offers.

>42 buckram: - I just bought a new facsimile of the Book of Common Prayer for about 2/3 of the price I would pay from Folio Society.

Interesting! Legends of Ancient Rome is £13 less at the BL Shop than the price I just paid to the FS. I know the BL shop well, but I had not realised that their FS editions were cheaper. As I live only 40 minutes away from there by train, I will definitely check it out first in future.

> 42

WOW!

I've just spent AUD$812 in the British Library shop on Folio books. All discounted.

Save $136 in delivery charges. Free delivery.

The big bonus is I bought them in sterling.

I can't with the Folio Society.

Total order with FS would have been (inc shipping) AUD$1439

I have therefore saved a massive AUD$627, by not buying via the FS!!!!

Mole, what's going on?

>42 buckram: Many thanks, Buckram!

I also just bought a few books at the site - but, to be fair to FS, the BL is currently having a 20% off sale, so I suspect the savings will not always be quite so massive (although even without the discount, the difference between their prices and the Australian FS prices is still really significant, per LesMis's post).

I see that the BL's Folio Society Gallery is putting on a Rubaiyat exhibition, starting shortly before Christmas. I shall have to remember to check out the Library shop while I'm there.

OK, bit the bullet. I just sent off an email to FS asking about the differential between prices. I took as an example Venice, by Jan Morris, which I'd really like to buy. This costs 36.95 pounds in the UK, and the equivalent (as of tonight on XE.com) of 43.05 pounds in Canada and 43.30 pounds in the USA. The same book costs the equivalent of 53.30 pounds in Australia. Wow!

I'll post the reply, if and when I receive it.

Cheers.

> 49

Goodonya!

I have emailed them also about the differences.

Cheers

PS A good example to use would have been 'Night Thoughts' LE

Direct from Folio inc shipping to their Australian Customers AUS$2,925.00

Buy from British Library inc shipping to Australia AUD$1,314

That is a saving of $1611 ...... Mole?

or another way to look at it is.... a whopping 55% discount!!!!!!!!

Granted that they do not have the entire FS Booklist, but the BL did have several volumes I was interested in. I managed to save 40% US by purchasing through them rather than FS.

I noticed that the Diary of a Nobody is no more available on the FS web site, while it still is on the BL. As I have not renewed my membership yet, could any of you who already renewed tell me if this title is still available to them (ie: members only)?

>52 Pepys:: I've renewed for 2010. Diary of a Nobody does not appear on a search of the UK FS site when I'm logged in.

>49 vat1sem:: I didn't want to plagiarise your example :-)

More importantly, I thought that I would use an example of something that was very much on my wish list and was more typically priced and therefore representative, rather than looking for the most absurd examples.

Interestingly, I continued looking at other examples across the four versions of the websites and noticed that Canadians, which must be a smaller market than the US, were slightly more advantaged than the US. I wonder if the Folio Society sees it as part of its Olde Worlde charm to use exchange rates that applied when the pound was not Gordon Brownised.

#53: Thanks, Huxley.

Following on from message 49:

I received the following reply, apparently from the Australian office.

'There are a number of factors that caused the higher prices in Australia:

1) The higher costs of marketing to Australia (having to prepare separate leaflets, higher postal charges) compared to the UK or other regions;
2) Despatch costs for books to Australia are higher than in the UK
3) The additional costs of running the local office for Customer Service in Sydney

Our colleagues in London head office also pointed out that the Australian dollar at GBPAUD 2.00 is at an historically low rate having come down from 2.59 in October 2008. Given prices are set for 12 months we have decided not to adjust prices downwards until the movement in the dollar is shown to be more than transitory.'

In response, I said -

'Thank you very much for your response.

While I understand the impact of currency volatility, it seems to me that the problems you mention could mostly be solved by marketing the books at the single UK price and charging appropriately for postage. Separate brochures and anticipation of currency movements would not be an issue then.

If the postage already charged is being subsidised from the overloaded book price, it seems to me that good economic practice requires a more appropriate reflection of where the real costs lie. While I would not quibble over a differential of, say, the £6.50 for The Picture of Dorian Gray, especially given the additional conversion costs from the midrate, the difference of more than £16 for Venice is another matter altogether. As has been pointed out to me, when we look at the Limited Editions the difference for a set like Night Thoughts is enough to actually pay for a return flight to London to pick up the book at the UK price in the reading room!

While I very much like Folio Society books (I first collected them in the 1970s but stopped buying them for financial reasons), the disincentive to buy any books other than the cheapest ones is very great and my finances are not such that I could resist such a disincentive, particularly given the availability of reasonably priced FS books in second-hand shops and on eBay.'

Astute readers will notice that I avoided directly questioning the need for the customer service office in Sydney :-)

I suspect that this will not get much, if any, response, but ......
drip...drip...drip....

> 56

I think it is only fair to point out the flaws in what is a decent book club, so that they can improve on what excellence they already have.

To be honest, I think the FS is great, but the reasons that they are giving us for the disparity are just excuses.

Simple solution: Let us purchase in sterling and no hang with currency vagaries.

>57 LesMiserables:

It seems to me that there is something quaintly, and occasionally intriguingly, old-fashioned about the Folio Society. Although they have a web site (which itself seems to be as unpredictable as Ron Weasley's wand), it's as if they still haven't come to terms with the social changes brought about by the speed and openness of information exchange through the internet, as well as the break-down of international commerce between individuals.

Here we are, for example, looking at prices charged for the same item in different parts of the world, corresponding through this forum in real time, and they're still operating as though the tyranny of distance is still with us.

I wonder if this attitude is not endemic across the British Commonwealth book trade, as evidenced by the current battle being waged by publishing companies against opening up the Australian book trade to foreign imports. Apologies here to non-Australians who are not aware of or interested in this issue.

All that said, I would agree wholeheartedly that the FS does do great (and, better still, interesting) work in keeping the book arts alive and well. It's just a pity that their pricing policies keep me from being as good a customer as I would like to be.

>1 LesMiserables: thru 58

I think for most of us, our relationship with FS is like that with a close, long-time friend - they have their quirks and character faults, but we smile about the quirks, nudge them once in awhile about their character faults, but mostly we just enjoy the relationship.

Os.

Very nicely put Osbaldistone.

Vat1sem and LesMiserables I appreciate your efforts toward resolving this issue. I am particularly upset since learning that the BL does not adhere to the same policy. I've also noticed that the UK site has disappeared from the website...use to be bottom right and was there the other night when I ordered the Rubaiyat (I'm in North America-Los Angeles, CA) for damn near $300 (incl postage) more than I could have purchased it in the UK.

I'm not sure if the idea of having regional offices is a good one. Think of the costs of maintaining the Australian unit for example. Premises, staff etc.

These costs could be saved and our costs slashed by axing such frivolous satellite offices. Marketing need not be in Australian dollars either.

I would imagine almost all of the society's customers have web access.

Allowing people to pay in sterling, but seeing an equivalent Aussie dollar price (or Canadian, US for that matter) would solve the marketing issues online.

The brochures and advertisements locally need not be priced at all, except perhaps for the joining offers which they could set at one flat rate.

OK, now you are starting to make me go hmmm...The Rubaiyat would cost me $840 in the states and $641 (USD equivalent) in the UK.

While I am not bothered so much for regular editions, I will definitely think twice on FS limited editions from now on. And I've bought a LOT of them in the past. I won't make myself sick by figuring out how much I lost in currency shenanigans.

That same $840 would get me the amazing Arion Press edition of Edith Wharton's Age of Innocence. Much more limited (300, of which less than 20 are left) and signed by the illustrator, Stephen Shore.

To make matters worse, my credit card company has started adding a "foreign transaction fee" on my FS purchases! Even though I'm charged in USD. Nice! I hope the Executive who came up with that one gets a nice fat bonus using my bail-out money.

I say that we should just all just fly to London once per year. Of course, we would have to spend enough while we are there to cover the cost of the flight.

> 64

What a splendid idea.

How does this sound?

Every five years, the Australian Folio Socialites and their North American cousins should meet and fly en masse and head for London for a members room literary bacchanal involving unrestrained indulgence and unguarded lobbying madness against the oppressive pricing mechanism. I say, repeal the current Mercurial methodology against us living in those countries, unlucky enough to have a satellite Folio office. As far as I am aware, an Indonesian for example, may purchase a Folio book but pay in sterling as they do not have the luxury of an Indonesian Folio office (!). Well we want that too!

Just think of the reading material for the flight home!

> 66

And what exactly are the baggage allowances these days? :-)

#66: Flight home? Take a ship, an old coal freighter, then you have enough reading time!

>63 jveezer: - About foreign transaction fees...

What do they appear as in credit card statements? I don't look at them myself, so I'd like to ask my parent to take a look and see if we're being charged for that, too - just don't know what they look like.

> 63, 69

On a previous correspondence from the society, they said.....

"I am sorry that you feel our pricing is unfair, but we do operate in the currency of the country we sell to. This saves members having to pay currency conversion and transaction fees with the card providers, which in our experience can be quite costly."

Apart from the irony of this reply, it does appear that you should not be getting charged transaction fees on top of the galling price difference.

The transaction fees are charged by the credit card company. I also have them when I buy books with my German credit card. something about 1.5% or so.

> 71

..which somewhat makes the FS reply in > 70 appear 'strange'.

> 70

....... which goes back to my issue that the FS business system is so 70s, even if the prices are not. Once upon a time, transaction fees were horrendous and currency transactions complex, but this is not the case any more.

> 73

Do you think so?

I was pondering this myself. It may be rather, shrewd marketing that makes them out to be 'old and traditional', but their bottom line suggests otherwise.

Indeed, I did consider changing the title of this thread from Shafted to Arts & Crafted

;-)

Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám £395.00 UK Price

Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám $995.00 AU Price

Let me see......

25/09/2009 Forex

£395.00 = AUS$737

$258 differential

>71 J_ipsen:-73

I get these "foreign transaction fees" as well - charged by the credit card company, I think 1%. It doesn't matter what currency I'm being charged in; if the transaction takes place in the UK, but the price is in dollars, they still charge the transaction fee. Which is why I, too, would rather just be charged in GBP. After all, then I'd at least be getting the best exchange of the day, whatever that may be.

I would guess that the overwhelming majority of members are unaware of the price discrepancies. The Society realizes that it is to their advantage to maintain those discrepancies, that they suffer no noticeable exodus of members because of them, and that many who discover and question them accept the excuses given even though they are in fact weak and do not withstand examination. So, why should they change?

On the folio site in the news section, they are boasting that the LE Wind in the Willows is going for over £1000 on abebooks. The price for Australians direct from the FS is the equivalent of £865. With the rise in the AUD and the fall of the GBP, it won't be long before it is significantly cheaper to buy new copies through third parties.

Of course, the FS still gets a sale, but it leaves us web-savvy overseas buyers with a bit of bad taste about dealing with the FS and a consequent reduction in our buying enthusiasm. These things have a slow burn, but still they still burn.

> 77

I agree with you, but as I said earlier, the world is changing. Have a look at this link to see how the web is increasingly empowering the knowledgeable consumer of sophisticated products:

http://www.slate.com/id/2229518/

> 79

Yes at £595, the price offered to the UK market, how on earth can they justify asking £865, that is £260 more from us in Australia.

This is remarkable.

> 79

Maybe they are listening ...... the difference is only £145 for the Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám :-)

> 80

That's poetic ;-)

While I am not unsympathetic to all the complaining going on in this thread (Australians once used to quip about "whingeing Poms"), it's just the way of the world. Good businessmen segment markets and charge each market what they think it will be bear. They soon find out if it won't - people stop buying.

For decades British people used to have to pay substantially more for cars bought in the UK than they would have had to pay for the identical model bought in France, Belgium or Germany. That was so even when the car was manufactured in Britain, exported to Belgium and then reimported back into Britian. Cynical executives at the Ford Motor Co happily nicknamed the UK "treasure island". That gross disparity in price only disappeared when enough Brits took to buying UK spec cars from French and Belgian dealers and personally importing them into the UK. As the idea gained traction, the motor companies tried refusing to deliver UK spec cars to French and Belgian dealers to stopthe practice. That only stopped when the European Commission ordered them to cease and desist. There's still a differential today but it is not now enough for Brits to take the trouble to buy on the continent and reimport to Britain.

Lots of popular items are differentially priced - as Brits find out when they see the price of iPods or iPhones in NYC. :-)

> 82

I am a Scot in Australia, for the record. :-)

Your right though about the solution. I have renewed, but only after getting what I consider a great deal.

I won't be buying any books other than sale books.

I would though if I could pay in sterling.

The society have had enough emails from me; well considered with solutions.

Yet to date, no move in position from them.

I do though believe, they are looking closely at it, lest they mislead me in their responses.

I say the more people who give factual and honest appeal on the subject to the society, the more they will consider the huge discrepancies in price.

I believe in the long run they will benefit from equitable marketing.

> 82. What do you mean ' once used to quip'? ;-)

Relevantly, this is not just about letting off steam. By going on here and sending letters to the Folio Society, etc, about this issue I (and Les Mis and others) are trying to get them to understand that this market will not bear what they want it to.

I know that differential pricing for what specific markets will bear is at introductory microeconomics level, but that does not mean we should cop it sweet. Buyer resistance to overpriced goods, especially discretionary goods, is also in the same microeconomic textbook.

I really like FS books. If I didn't, this wouldn't be an issue and I wouldn't be on this forum. But I would rather buy more books at a lower price. I know that if I had the opportunity to buy prices that were closer to the UK level I would not only buy more books but would spend more money than now because I see better value. And I think many of the other people on this forum think the same way - just have a look at the 'look how much I bought at the (name your season) Sale' thread!

Once again Les Mes and Vats1 you make me proud.

Appa... you make the excellent point that price 'discrimination' (my term not yours) sucks for everyone.

I love FS and will continue to purchase their beautiful books; I too love their noble dedication to the book arts and w/all due respect to Arion and the LE Book Club, have nothing comparable to them in North America. But my opinion of the FS has soured since learning of their worldwide marketing practices which are quite disimilar from other UK organizations (i.e, the British and Bodleian Libraries).

This I find inexcusable and more...and for the perfect word I go to my oh so beautiful!!! $300 (incl shipping) LE Oxford Theasaurus of English...repulsive.

>63 jveezer:, 69, 70

I just noticed a foreign transaction fee (I'm in the US) on my latest credit card statement for a recent Folio purchase. I don't recall seeing that before, but I will have to check. I'm not overly happy about it either since the prices are quoted in $USD. Also, I have this vague memory when I originally started with Folio in the 1990's that there was a much better deal on the shipping (single relatively small charge to all the books) when you renewed/ordered all the year's volumes at one time (or am I dreaming?).

I am just curious. Did we clean out the inventory of Folio Society books at the British Library? I bought a few last week, but when I went back on today, I could not find any FS books on the site.

HMO I noticed that same thing earlier...coincidence you think?

>87 HMOKeefe:, 88
The paranoid in me wonders if perhaps they don't appear because you have an FS cookie on your computer...

Last week, I did a search for "folio society" and about 20 books popped up. Now, same search >>> "You searched for 'folio society' in 'Books'
Your search returned no results, please refine your search."

Os.

Damned. I wanted this Diary of a Nobody, and failed to order it from BL...

I suspect that this group is beginning to be a nightmare for the FS marketing department. They will hate us.

The Folio Books on the British Library have been withdrawn due to the 20% sale. They were included in error I am told. Apparently Folio books cannot be sold for less than members can buy them for. The 20% off Night Thoughts, I believe set the cat amongst the pigeons.

Don't even remind me...I could have ordered Nights Thoughts and saved a cool grand.

> 90

I understand what you are saying Pepys, but the fault lies not with us. We are doing no more than pointing out what we perceive to be a punitive premium on Folio books marketed to Australian members.

I really cannot fathom out why I cannot buy in sterling other than because the society can charge us more. I'm not sure of the legalities of this, but the ethics are dubious.

> 92

Yes. The British Library as we saw, had NT on sale for 700 pounds sterling including shipping!

I think the FS had a fit.

I ordered a lot of books from them prior to them being withdrawn. My Visa card has been debited, so I imagine, even though they have been deemed to err by the Society, they are honouring the order.

And all children's books I meant to order as xmas gifts...

Coarse there is the thrill of imagining my friends pulling into their driveway and seeing the big white croaker sack...then opening the sack to see the inevitable battered box...then opening the box to see the 'Rainbow Fairy Books; The Wind in the Willows, The Secret Garden and etc.

Oh to be a child again.

Anyway for that effect I'll need to order from the FS.

> 96

Or buy on the 2nd Hand market: abe, ebay etc

I have started to do this. I bought Marcus Aurelius' Meditations in Fine condition for around half the price of buying new from FS. I prefer to buy new, with the guarantee and purchasing history etc, but I now am forced to look elsewhere.

>94 LesMiserables: Hi LesMiserables
I've just received an email from the British Library. Apparently the book I ordered is "currently not available" and they will refund my credit card. Hopefully you'll be luckier with your purchases. Sorry for the inconvenience of this. I had thought that their advertised sale was just that. I think I'll be sticking to AbeBooks and eBay for a while. I haven't had a book purchase through them fall through yet.

Well I hope they honour my order. When did you order yours? I fear a blanket ban on Folio books has been imposed as an interim measure due to the sale and the notice of the society that their books are being sold for less than they sell them for.

'Shambles' hardly gets close to what is going on.

Oh my...this is getting really ugly.

I also placed an order with the BL and I have received a confirmation that my books were sent out. I ordered 3 Folio titles. I believe I placed the order last Tuesday.

Texaco: I also will continue to purchase and cherish FS standard editions. I'm only going to hesitate on the big ticket items like limited editions. For those, I may well opt for something from a press where more of my book-buying $$s go towards the book as opposed to making money on a "financial instrument" like currency rates. The 33% uplift on the Rubaiyat is better spent on the other limited editions on my wish list.

That means the Rubaiyat, Pepys Journal, Moby Dick, and Metamorphosis have all moved way down the wishlist queue, behind several from other presses.

Jveezer I wish I could say the same since nothing makes an organization pay attention like the withholding of funds...but I'm a book-nut (bibliophile) in every sense of the word and would not/could not resist anything so beautiful as the Rubaiyat.

> 101

...and I have received a confirmation that my books were sent out

Hi FS16

Was this an auto-generated email when you placed your order or a specific email to say they had been shipped.

On the BL website is there any way to view your order? When I log in, the only thing I can see is my name and address etc. Trying to find confirmation of the specifics of the order are seemingly impossible.

Perhaps the BL sand FS share the same IT consultants?

Les Mis - I contacted them after not receiving an automated reply. They got back to me the next day. I didnt see any way to check the order online.

My books came today and they were still sealed in the shrink wrap and perfect. Packed very well also.

> 105

Cheers SF16

That must mean they are honouring the orders that have gone through. I spent a tidy sum and wouldn't be best pleased if they reneged on it.

>106 LesMiserables:
They might find it a bit more difficult to claim "currently not available" on multiple books as they might do on a single book order. One can only hope.

Os.

I think it will have genuinely been currently unavailable. My single book order of the The Lives of the Engineers came through yesterday, having ordered in the middle of last week.

> 108
I'm glad to see that the British Library is honouring existing orders. I only ordered the book on the 20th September, so I was probably just unlucky it was unavailable. There are some lovely BL titles on their website and it's very tempting to order more books. I'd love to see the return of full price Folio Society books to the site. With the current exchange rates there may still be some savings from purchasing in pounds sterling.

> 108

Ditto.

Having the ability to pay in sterling plus be rewarded with free postage for larger orders makes a significant difference to the bottom line.

For those of you who have recently received Folio books from the British library, may I ask where they shipped from the Folio Society or Direct from the British Library?

My books finally arrived from the British Library.

I've got to be brutally honest here and say that the packing was a joke. One flimsy box with all the books packed together with a sprinkling of styrofoam shells and the thinnest of bubble wrap at top and bottom.

It was a wonder that the freight wasn't damaged.

Inside, three of my books were not there, only to find out now on the enclosed invoice that they were not available, written as a postscript with a note to say that I have been refunded for them which I have not been!

One of the volumes - Treasure Island - came without shrink wrap and on inspection the slipcase was badly marked, though not as much as the book itself which has about a dozen seriously disfigured pages: turned corners, creased pages etcetera.

I have emailed the BL looking for my refund and have let them know that Treasure Island should never have been sent out in such a condition: obviously the last one lying on the shelf.... and no wonder.

I hate sloppy service. Leaves a bad taste in your mouth. It makes the FS look even better than they already are: especially in the communication and packing services.

It seems all the more distressing when you are dealing with an institution which is supposedly dedicated to books.

Not a Folio member, but I'm curious about joining and curious about ordering books in pounds sterling versus US dollars (I'm in the US). So what happens exactly? When you log in, are you no longer even able to prices from other regions? (e.g. UK, AUS) Or is that when you go to order/check out that it restricts you to your home country's currency? I was actually just in London in the members room, but the two reps there didn't seem to have answers or be especially interested in helping me order in Pounds as a US member.

Thanks.

>114 matruski:
Everything I see is in US$, whether I'm logged in or not. Perhaps I could clear out all cookies and then enter a URL for the UK site, and then might see pounds sterling, but I suspect their system knows from what country the ping came from, and presents the website for that country.

Os.

Okay, I just cleared cookies and temp. internet files, etc. Then I entered www.foliosociety.co.uk and the site came up in US$, and the URL in the window is now www.foliosociety.com

Os.

>114 matruski:, 116

When I'm logged out, I can choose a new region - see the little flags at the bottom right hand corner of the home page. Sometimes these flags are obscured by a testimonial that spreads down from the right hand column.

As a member, if I want to see the current introductory offers, I need to clear out the cookies. And once I log in again the intro offers disappear.

Interestingly, there are more books on offer to non-members than to members. For example, Chekhov's 'The Shooting Party' does not show when I'm logged in. I wonder if these titles are going to be included in the next sale and the FS does not want a bunch of unhappy members who paid full price weeks before. On the other hand, it could just be the FS webmaster off on yet another frolic of his/her/their/its own.

And sorry to keep harping on it (and I've really tried to bite my (figuratively speaking) lip), but with the rising AUD it is even more painful to compare the special Aussie prices with the Sterling price for UK residents and 'the rest of the world'.

Having read the comments on the LE Moby Dick, I would so much want to get this book, but the emotion of disgust at shelling out a 50% premium because of where I live is stronger than the emotion of desire in owning such a beautiful example of the book arts. And that's not counting the fact that they charge a whopping AUD60 to get it here (which, I would hope, reflects the genuine freight cost for such a high end volume).

MOLE - ARE YOU LISTENING????

I would hold strong and not buy it yet. There is just something fundamentally wrong with that. Maybe you could ask someone to buy it for you and then ship it to you.

>117 vat1sem:
Well, I never noticed those little flags down there before. Mine works just like yours - if I clear cookies and don't log in, I can see the intro offers for any country. Thanks.

Os.

At the current exchange rate, a Moby Dick LE purchased in the US (US$350 + US$40) would run about AU$430 (plus whatever fee the credit card would add for the exchange).

Note that, at the current exchange rate, a Moby Dick LE purchased in the UK (175 GBP + 5 GBP) should be about US$281 + US$40, so we're paying about a US$70 premium in the US; about half the premium that folks in Oz are paying. Apparently, they're using a fixed 2.0 multiplier for the US even though the exchange rate has dropped to about 1.6.

Os.

The more who complain, the better.

Folks in the US should start emailing Customer services too, about the shambles.

Bloody hell: just price everything in the country of origin and we all have equity.

>119 chase.donaldson:

No, I won't buy at all. If 175 GBP (the UK and 'world' asking price) is what it's worth, taking into account workmanship, quality, rarity and fair profit, then I'm clearly not going to get value for money if I spend 265 GBP.

I would be interested to know if any of the UK and Swiss/Norwegian/Chinese and other 'world' denizens of LT who have bought this book think it is good value at 265 GBP.

I'm in China and I pay in GBP. All countries that do not have a seperate FS office are charged in GBP, as far as I know.

ETA.: I mean, I pay the UK prices.

I'm in Switzerland and prices show up in pounds sterling for me.

THE BLOODY PERVERSE ASSIDUITY OF THEM

UK WEBSITE - Notes from a Small Island
Bill Bryson

Bryson's account of his farewell tour of Britain by public transport is a hilarious and affectionate tribute by Britain's funniest adopted son.

Add to basket Price: £24.95 £21.95

You save £3.00 (12%)

______________________________

AUSTRALIAN WEBSITE

Notes from a Small Island
Bill Bryson

Bryson's account of his farewell tour of Britain by public transport is a hilarious and affectionate tribute by Britain's funniest adopted son.

Add to basket Price: AUS$ 69.95 AUS$ 63.95

You save AUS$ 6.00 (9%)

__________________________________________

In fact every sale book has a bigger discount in the UK than over here.

That on top of the disgraceful Australian pricing is the final straw!

_____________________________________________

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, IF YOU ARE AFFECTED BY SUCH ATROCITIES OF PRICING; SEND AN EMAIL TO THEM AND COMPLAIN BITTERLY ABOUT OUR LOT. US, AU etc

Okay - that is just *outrageous*!!! (For the uninitiated, AUD$64 = GBP£36.50)

>126 LesMiserables:

I think Charles Stewart Parnell had the best solution to this problem (in his Ennis speech). The question is, do those of us who don't reside in "this scepter’d isle, this earth of majesty, this seat of Mars, this other Eden, demi-paradise..." have sufficient resolve to stop purchasing until the situation is resolved?

>128 Django6924:

I have just taken that step.

I have emailed the society and told them that I am now no longer in the market.

A drop in the ocean perhaps, but I now don't feel as if I have been buggered.

#129: ...and if you really really have to have one of their books, you can still resort to ebay, abebooks, etc...

>130 J_ipsen:

I told them as much.

I also made two, what I considered, salient points.

1) There are no technological or trade/excise reasons for barring us from purchasing in pounds sterling.

2) I estimate that 85% of their customers browse their website. And almost 100% of those, who are also US and AU customers, can see the pricing disparities.

I've heard all the excuses, from the banal to the anal.

>130 J_ipsen:

There is also the British Library of course, but they have cottoned on to it.

I just received a superabundant order from them all with 20% discount + free shipping to Australia + prices paid in sterling!!!!!!

I saved around $600 dollars.

Just to wind us Aussies up further, the quiz prize seems to be a £50 voucher in the UK, but only $100 for Australian members. So you could comfortably afford the LeFebvre Napoleon in the UK should you win the quiz, but not in Australia without supplementation!

It's funny that they discover realistic exchange rates when they're handing out the dough rather than collecting it.

>133 vat1sem:

Yeah that's strange how the exchange rate has suddenly changed!

*One little note to the idea of simply going to the UK and purchasing your books there if you're an Australian member -- you will be charged the *AUSTRALIAN* rate, not the UK rate. They ask for your membership number and then charge you what is listed on your own site.

So even though you are on British soil purchasing the book from the British warehouse, you will be charged your membership's rate.

I found this out the hard way with the Shakespeare Letterpress set.

I was on the phone with customer service for several hours for two days about it.

>135 kassetra:

That is an absolute disgrace.

I hope you had a favourable outcome.

Well no, I had to cancel my membership.

They *refused* to charge me the UK rate even though I was right there. They told me it was the bank and not them charging the exchange rate. They didn't even tell me that is what they were going to charge me until I saw my credit card statement. At a difference (if I remember correctly) of $250AU even though I was on UK soil, I felt quite bitter.

Well, as someone that has had to use a US credit card, an Australian credit card and a UK credit card all over the world, the most I have ever had to pay for an 'exchange rate' was 1% plus a small fee (like $2AU, $1-2US and £1-2) charged by a bank for purchasing something with the 'wrong' currency.

Well I will be in the UK this December and may visit the Members Room.
I couldnt imagine how they could refuse notes and coin!

If they ask for your member number....
;)

I'll tell them I've moved back!

That they keep their system as long as you are in Australia, I can even understand somehow, but charging you a premium when buying from the members room has something sleazy.

I wonder if this is the forum for Folio Society members on the net?

If so, does it represent the feeling of most non-sterling paying members?

Hmmm.

Online petition?

Les Mes I've always gone straight to source which is how I met Sid Schiff of the LEC here in North America. I was totally fed up w/books dealers so picked up the phone; called information; asked for LEC; Sid picked up the phone & I've b------g and moaning DIRECTLY TO HIM ever since. But guess what...all my issues get resolved immediately.

Has anyone contacted Sue Bradbury??

Does anyone know her superiors/the owners??

I just sent an email to FS stating that I'm going to the Brit. Library and the used book market until they propose an alternative to the inflated prices they are charging in their US prospectus.

One more drop in the ocean.

Os.

Excellent Os but I suggest we go one step further and direct our emails to Sue Bradbury (sbradbury@foliosociety.com). Now while I assume she has gate keepers and may not read her own emails I will also use the toll free # to call...DAILY...until I speak to her directly. Assuming I get her on the phone I will advise her of the money I've spent in 2008/2009 (having purchased all the letterpress Shakespeares; all the LECs then available and quite a few others) and will let her know...and this is difficult as I love FS books very much...that unless this matter is resolved I will purchase no FS books in 2010.

Now if that doesn't get her attention I don't know what will.

Please note that I need to confirm the email as it may be: sueb@foliosociety.com; I will also get a confirmed email for the production director Joe Whitlock Blundell whom we should also email.

>146 Texaco:
Just let me know

>Les, I'll add my name to the mix as well and send them an email. Texaco, let us know when you confirm the email.

Os and cweller: I've already sent off a request for emails (via email) and will follow-up w/a phone call in the morning.

Do you think it would look more imposing if everyone synced up the text for the topics of the emails? Line after line of the same issue from different members...

>150 Irieisa:
I would think they would find it more difficult to ignore if each contact is unique. Of course, if there is a mole, they'll know how it got started regardless of the uniformity, or lack thereof.

Os.

I don't think it matters how we say it as long as we make the point that the BL has a pricing policy which allows everyone the world over to purchase their products in pound sterling...this being the case we'd like to know why the HELL they cannot do the same.

That is all we want to know.

Os what they will find difficult to ignore is all of us striking their arses in 2010!!!

Edit: Pray God I have my Rubaiyat by then.

To arms! To arms!

A good method would be to send them their order form (for example, the recent one for the Rubiayat) with a note on it to the effect of "I would be purchasing this for the price you advertise in pounds sterling but unfortunately am unable/unwilling to do so with the uplift you are charging in my country." Personally, I would only do this for the ones I REALLY WOULD purchase at that price. Your choice on whether to stick them for the postage; not sure that's the best idea. If they get enough of them they might make some changes.

Just a little monkeywrenching tactic I've used in other areas...

>151 Ealhmund: - Yeah, upon second thought, it would be better if they appeared different but shared certain keywords.

Hi Guys

I'm not sure if any of you are interested, but I started a forum here....

http://folio.proboards.com

just for folio addicts. I thought perhaps with a few of the issues going on and with the ability to post pics, have an avatar etc etc, it might be a goer.

Feel free to disregard this, or if you feel inclined, join the group and post a topic. I will still be on here full time, so its not a choice of either/or, more a case of a little bit of something else.

Cheers.

LesMiserables, you will make our FolioMolio tres miserable (sorry, couldn't resist it) . Now he/she has to spread their time observing us even thinner.

Apart from that, I don't really know what extra benefits another message board could give us, except that we have to hop between two sites...

There seem to be more companies trying to get some extra cash out of Australians

http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/digital-life-news/kindle-in-bad-books-as-a...

>157 LesMiserables: oh gosh lesMis, it takes me all my time to keep up with this one.

Just received an email per the following:
___________________________________
Dear Ms Leigh

Thank you for your message.

I have just spoken to Sue Bradbury. Sue is now semi-retired and works part-time so may not be able to respond to any messages immediately. However, she is more than happy to answer any questions or queries you might have. Her email address is as follows: sueb@foliosociety.com.

Joe Whitlock Blundell is in Frankfurt this week for the book fair but I will speak to him as soon as I am able.

Best regards

Christine Grant
Operations Manager
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was told that production designer Joe Whitlock Blundell's email was: joe@foliosociety.com

It Think Australia should be a republic.
It might get more respect. My Father in Law is from Melbourne and isn't too happy
with Queenie. An Phoblacht Abu.

Well I've sent my email off and am happy about it. I kept it short and sweet and asked one question: why; and made one statement: that if the price-discrimination continued that I would purchase no books in 2010. I also included my member number so that she would know what I'd spent during the last couple years and how it might impact 2010.

I also cc'd Joe Whitlock Blundell and will give it a day or so; if I do not hear anything will follow-up w/a phone call.

Shall keep you posted.

> 162

Tiocfaidh ar la? :-)

I was in correspondance with a Mr. Flagstaff. Seems a decent enough chap, though it seems we have not moved any closer to getting these issues resolved.

It's a bit of a shame really, as I do like the folks at the Folio Society.

But I think they seriously have to consider their business model for Australian / US customers. We are all connected now and the discrepencies are so alarmingly obvious and punitive towards us, that it has to be rectified.

I'm more than willing to keep the Folio Society on track as a successfull business, but not at any rate.

On their Books for Christmas discounted section, I see another example of either one of two things.

1) Either the society is very slow to act on the several complaints they have had from us.

or

2) They are just not listening.

The latest example is the Macaulay set which is already heavily loaded to Australian customers.

The discounted section gives the Pounds Sterling customers a slightly more generous discount as well us us Australian customers paying a hefty $140 premium on the UK price.

UK Price: £135 or AUD$235

Australian Price: AUD$375

That's a hefty 60% on top of the UK Price.

Let me just repeat that.

Thats is SIXTY PERCENT ON TOP OF THE UK PRICE

THAT IS A &^*%$^&* JOKE

I feel your pain LesMis; that is absurd!!

With that kind of discrepancy, you should have someone in the UK buy it for you, and pay to have it shipped. I realize that exact price matches every day are not to be expected given the variability of exchange rates, but 60% is a bit much.

> 167

...and that is exactly why we are calling for paying in sterling: universally.

I'm not sure things are filtering through.

Book of Hours

UK £495 (AUD$875)

Aussie Dollar $1100

$325 Difference or £183

That means in effect.....

If you live in London you pay £495

If you live in Brisbane you pay £621

Come on.....

Just wanting to post both sides of the debate and any relevant info.....

After contacting the society about my imminent trip to the UK, they have told me I can purchase in UK pounds sterling and have given me a special account number to do this (Posted to UK of course).

This query was in response to the Aussie member who went to the members room and bought a book and was charged in Aussie prices!!!

So fair play to Folio on this occasion for playing fair.

LesMis:

After contacting the society about my imminent trip to the UK, they have told me I can purchase in UK pounds sterling and have given me a special account number to do this (Posted to UK of course).
____________________________________________________
LesMis that is so generous of them (said w/a heavy dose of sarcasm)

>170 LesMiserables:, 171

At least we know how to work it when/if we are going to London.
Advanced preparation necessary - don't just drop in and expect it to work.

LesMis - did you have to provide a UK postal address?

Os.

>172 Ealhmund:

Yes. But I'm sure they would allow pick up too.

Has anyone visited the British library shop in London lately?

Have they pulled all the Folio stock? Since the issue of Night Thoughts was raised, the Folio Society I think have ordered their books be withdrawn.

I wonder if they are still for sale in the shop, even though they have been pulled from the online shop?

Has anyone had an offer from the society along the lines of.....

A special pre-Christmas offer. Save $10 on your next order of $100 or more

What did those in Blighty get?

I've had an email offer with a free postage code to be used before 31st December, nothing else yet...

I got a "GBP5 off you next order" offer

> Yup. Didn't initially work, but does now. The $100 includes postage, but it's hardly the sort of thing that will have me rushing the order page!

Ah! That's a little better then: I feared a AUD$10/£10 insult!

>174 LesMiserables:

Les Mis: I visited the British Library last Friday to see the exhibition in the Folio Society gallery that documents the relationship of T S Eliot with Faber and Faber. The shop still has a section devoted to Folio Society books. The cost of each book seems to correspond to the price on the Folio website but without the reduction for members.

> 180

Thanks Peter.

There are still some huge savings for us Aussie's by ordering direct from the British Library.

Just checked a few examples

Legends of Ancient Rome

Folio Price to us in Australia = $110

British Library converted price = $70

Shipping works out to be cheaper too with the BL and if you buy a few books, you pay no shipping costs at all to Australia.

> 181

Another example at the quality end....

Night Thoughts offered by BL to Australia AUS$ 1600

Folio to Australia Members Price: AUS$ 2,850.00

The mind boggles.

I got the same 10 dollar (US) thing, but for USD.

Not enough to make me buy, but it's good through the end of the year. I'm expecting to buy something in the (rumored to be very good) Christmas sale, so I'll use it then.

The offer I received in the UK is free postage on my next order. It's not going to get me rushing to place an order.

I got the $10.00 (Canadian) offer too. I'll probably be using it as I already have about $200.00 sitting in my basket from the pre-Christmas offerings. I just have to remember the coupon when I finally take the plunge.

We all know what this means. The winter sale begins on January 1.

> 186

I wonder if this be the case. January 1st?

It would be nice to perhaps, whilst I am in Scotland, partake of the odd trifle from the society, purchasing at UK prices with UK postage.

Perhaps Russell at bargain price? Oh, the though of it.....