Giving away books in this group

I just wanted to let everyone on the group know that I'm going to be pointing authors to this group to give away copies of their books to review.

This is in response to some authors wanting a particular kind of reader to review their book. I'm thinking authors would start a thread about their giveaway, and encourage members to contact them directly about reading/reviewing the book. They can answer questions about the book in the thread.

This way, an author controls who they send their book to (as opposed to giving their book away in Member Giveaways, which randomly chooses a winner).

You can imagine how this might be important when you have one copy of a book to give away, and it's a medical text. Finding someone in the medical field to review the book is easier here.

I see the author posting a thread, with a subject that indicates that review copies are available. They'll include in their message something about the book, what kind of reviewer they're looking for, and how a potential reviewer can contact the giver to indicate that they're interested.

This is an informal group, and the rules here (the agreement between the author and the reviewer) are set by the two parties. LibraryThing isn't going to enforce non-reviewing, disputes, etc.

Bless you, Sonya, for setting this up!

I LOVE gifts that turn out to be exactly what I wanted! Thank you, Sonya. I love it!

Hi folks

Can I come in?

oldstick

4: Sure. Tell us about yourself and what you write.

I have written two books for the older generation as an antidote to all the misery and chick-lit novels that seem to be popular recently.

I can't say which author I most resemble. I just write a story about people and situations that interest me and usually the characters take over.

Lane's End is about the adventures of a man with learning difficulties in the modern world but it isn't deep and meaningful, just a very easy -to-read paperback with a hint of political thought and a touch of educational experience.

Un-Stable Lane is about the same family, but from a female viewpoint. So many people kept asking me what happened next that I had to continue.

Now I am living with the family again so it looks like it will be a trilogy, although I have discovered I must not try to market it as such as it restricts sales.

An excellent idea, this! I will return, when time allows.

>6 oldstick: Your books sound interesting, oldstick... are they available in the U.S.? Or perhaps in e-book format? I am always looking for something new.

I am very much looking forward to this group. Thanks, Sonia for setting it up!

Just checking – we start a new thread within this group for each book (how ever many copies of it) we're looking to offer for review? Or add to this thread?

From Sonya's initial post...

... I'm thinking authors would start a thread about their giveaway, and encourage members to contact them directly about reading/reviewing the book. They can answer questions about the book in the thread. ...

I think adding them to this thread would get messy really quickly.

>1 sonyagreen:. Good innovation, Sonya! The choose your own readers giveaway. And in the way you designed it, to preclude new rules that LT would have to enforce, which would no doubt be a burden, in more ways than one.

Good point, random people request your free book giveaway, then win it possibly. Would be nice to find a reader who could intelligently review the writing based on prior experience with the subject matter. How do I get in contact with a recent winner of my book, to see if they have questions and when and where the review will be posted?

>13 BWritesPoetry2: How do I get in contact with a recent winner of my book, to see if they have questions and when and where the review will be posted?
If you're talking about a recent Member Giveaway winner, you should have their username. If you go to their profile, you can leave them a comment (unless they have comments turned off).

They should be reviewing the book on LibraryThing, which means you'll see it on the book's page.

So we can just post our interest to each author as the book becomes available as stated by said author, right, and then author will decide on candidate most likely , and distribute book accordingly and all other members will know that this time they did not get chosen to review the book, better luck next time. And it will be a given that this will be taken with good sportsmanlike behavior, right. I mean, it will be hard on an author if they get a response anything like the ER program.And possibly that many profile pages to go through. Maybe, there should be a limit to how many people can register per book?

15> As one who experienced the lack of viability of the MG program, for authors, in the recent past, I would be happy to look over 200 profiles to find those reviewers who would have some affinity with my writing.

Sonya: I have been giving some serious thought to this idea of yours, and at first, I thought it was a great idea. Then, my marketing/advertising background took hold of it and caused me to look at it more closely. Here is my conclusion:

Letting authors know they can give away books in this forum is only one, very small part of what needs to take place, for independent authors/publishers to benefit from your proposal. The more important issues are: how do you alert the readers that the books will be offered here? If we do our own threads, how are readers drawn to these threads? We would have to go to many forums, to add our thread information, and this might be construed as 'spamming' by many less-tolerant comrades. Who else will know about this Group and its purpose, until they look around and bump into it?

On the ER & MG pages, at the top, are options for ER and MG, which Lt'rs can click on. Independent authors/publishers should be listed in the same manner.

How difficult would it be to make up a separate page, just like the ER/MG pages? Would it really be that difficult, since the authors will be selecting the winners? There is no tie-back to LT that requires juggling/organizing of data (I know, I am not a techie.), so it should not be difficult to do this.

For anyone trying to promote/sell their book, the most important need on a website is traffic. The more people who can see the listings of the independent authors/publishers, the better it will be for the results we wish to achieve.

My point of view is that until this option for independent authors is on an equal footing with ER and MG, it will not be seen by any significant and diverse number of readers, on a consistent basis, and that does not provide us with a viable solution to the problem. Instead, it feels more like being sent to the back room, out of sight. I don't see myself taking another risk on a band-aid approach to the problem.

Edited for typos. These fingers are just too bloody fast.

>17 K.J.:. Well thought out, K.J. I'm with you.

>15 mmignano11: The author could update their initial post when they've chosen the members, to say the giveaway is closed.

>17 K.J.: K.J., thanks for the well-thought post.
how do you alert the readers that the books will be offered here? If we do our own threads, how are readers drawn to these threads?
Every time a new thread is started, you see it in Talk. I'll get into the larger promotion question next, but suffice to say that within the confines of this group is the only place where announcing your giveaway is permitted. This is splitting hairs, but non-authors could go over to their mystery group and say "hey, author x is giving away copies of a mystery on Hobnob!", but author x can't do the same thing (because it's self-promotion).

We would have to go to many forums, to add our thread information, and this might be construed as 'spamming' by many less-tolerant comrades.
That would definitely be spamming. This group was created so there would be at least one place where authors could talk about their books in a promotional way, without being construed as spam.

Who else will know about this Group and its purpose, until they look around and bump into it?
Well, it's a standing community group (or, it will be once the page is fixed -- it's a short-term bug), I've blogged about it, I'm going to be mentioning it in the next newsletter, it's tagged, I link to it on the About Authors page, and I'm sure word-of-mouth will play a part. Also, this group is very young, and it takes time to build up a reader base. This thread would be a great place to discuss other ways to get other members interested.

How difficult would it be to make up a separate page, just like the ER/MG pages?
We've discussed this in previous threads, before Hobnob was created. We're not going to create a third program for authors, and the Hobnob group with the giveaway option is the solution we're offering. Even making changes to Member Giveaways to include the option for authors to choose their winners would require coding time and Sonyahours to maintain, which is not something we want to do now.

Starting Hobnob was our way of addressing the author-promotion problems (including giveaways) in a way that could be self-regulated, require no coding time and get up and running quickly.

My point of view is that until this option for independent authors is on an equal footing with ER and MG, it will not be seen by any significant and diverse number of readers, on a consistent basis, and that does not provide us with a viable solution to the problem.
I think we have a difference in what the problem and the solution are. I don't disagree that Hobnob not as publicized as ER or MG, but LibraryThing is not primarily about promoting authors. We started ER and MG for our members, not ourselves. We don't charge members or publishers for ER/MG, and it's 30-50% of my job. (To complete the math summary, we also don't charge members to join, only if they want to catalog more than 200 books, so we don't make money at the sign-up either. We don't make money on ER/MG is what I'm saying.)

Promoting your book and getting the word out about a giveaway are of primary importance to authors, I understand that. We have a lot of other plates we're spinning, and other areas of the site that need much more attention.

(Also, do I get to use the "and I'm about to have a baby" card? It's kind of a big card. Keeping my plates spinning is going to become more exciting, using just one hand.)

Sonyagreen,

Might there be a way to post a book description on the MG page for exposure with a note or link to go to Hobnob with Authors to request the book? That would be a high traffic area.

Congratulations on the baby.

Thanks!

If you post a book on MG, a winner/winners will be picked for it. I guess you could give away one copy via MG, and use the description ask members to message you directly for the other x number of copies you're giving away. That would be completely legitimate.

You could have them go to Hobnob to the thread you start there instead. Having people message/email you directly would mean less clicking through and messaging they'd have to do, which would increase the chances of someone doing it.

I've just added a note to everyone's home page, in the upper-right corner, touting Hobnob.

I don't disagree that Hobnob not as publicized as ER or MG

I disagree, actually. There's been plenty of promotion of this group, so I've started watching it. This means messages here show up in Talk, which I look at every day. You just need to make sure your subject catches people's interest.

On the other hand, I pretty much never look at MG. It's a separate thing, not integrated with my regular use of LT.

I'd suggest that within the Hobnob group, consistent subject headers could be used to make it easy for readers to locate Author Giveaways. Something as simple (and as short) as starting each giveaway thread with "HOBNOB GIVEAWAY: Mystery Book" or "HOBNOB GIVEAWAY: elenchus Book".

Authors could choose to manage the giveway in the thread, or point LT'ers to their profile page and manage via comments, or whatnot.

I don't think the specific words used in the subject line are as important as the fact there's a way to easily spot a giveway, compared to the other interesting threads in this group.

I guess I didn't mean interesting so much as descriptive. If they at least include a bit about the genre (Giveaway: YA Fantasy or Giveaway: Historical Fiction, Egypt), I think they'll be more likely to attract the right readers.

I just noticed this group because of the note on my home page in the upper-right hand corner. So, as someone said, that is a page I always hit when I come here. I don't necessarily travel into the talk areas.

I've given up on MG and come here to this group instead. I guarantee that once more people are aware of what's going on here, you'll get more traffic.

As stated previously, you need to start new threads with headers that entice people to click on them. You need *not* stick with only the threads that have already been started.

19> We've discussed this in previous threads, before Hobnob was created. We're not going to create a third program for authors, and the Hobnob group with the giveaway option is the solution we're offering.

Then, you do not provide a viable solution to the problem. All of the band-aids you propose do not equal an opportunity for us that works as well as an equal-footing with ER and MG would provide. How are our offerings any different from the marketing and sales objectives of major publishers? They are not, and any attempt to colour them as different lacks credibility. I understand that there would be challenges to provide this alternative, and if the desire to fix the problem was there, LT admin would rise to the challenge. After all, they did create the ER and MG pages, oui?

Also, do I get to use the "and I'm about to have a baby" card?

In the context of this discussion, no you don't. If the challenges of your position are conflicted with the imminent arrival of an offspring, then delegating makes sense. As for your personal challenge, I congratulate you and wish you and your pending progeny excellent health and an easy delivery.

Typo

Pardon me, but I don't believe that LT is obligated to provide services to anyone here.

29> No one said they were. Read again.

27> As stated previously, you need to start new threads with headers that entice people to click on them. You need *not* stick with only the threads that have already been started.

I see. So, to have a look at the offerings, I will have to view all of the threads, visit profiles/author pages, to check out the books being offered, instead of one page (or thread) where they would all be nicely listed with all pertinent data on the page? I see visual fatigue setting in before the readers see the data for all of the offerings.

As a reader lurking around this group, I just want to give a little wave to say that readers are here and reading these discussions. I think there's plenty more like me hovering around waiting to see if author giveaways takes off.

And as of now there's little to no "visual fatigue" - a grand total of 9 threads in the group - so just wanted to point out that readers are out here eagerly awaiting whichever authors want to promote themselves and offer us their books for our reading/reviewing enjoyment!

32> Would there be significantly more readers, today, reading about our books, if they were listed in the same manner as ER and MG offerings? My educated guess would be, yes.

>31 K.J.: So, to have a look at the offerings, I will have to view all of the threads, visit profiles/author pages, to check out the books being offered

No, you'd just have to view the list of threads in this group. If the authors/givers use a smart and consistent thread title, it will be easy for people to find books that they'll find interesting and/or be qualified to review.

instead of one page (or thread) where they would all be nicely listed with all pertinent data on the page? I see visual fatigue setting in before the readers see the data for all of the offerings.

Navigating through one thread listing all the giveaways would be an unmitigated nightmare. I would not bother looking through it.

If each giveaway has its own thread, people will be able to ignore--either mentally or with the convenient little red X--giveaways that don't appeal to them. If they click the little X, messages that get posted to that uninteresting thread won't cause new, possibly interesting threads, to scroll away.

If each giveaway has its own thread, and the title formats are informative, people will be able to skim and filter them easily. Just like they do with the ER/MG listings.

Slapping on three asterisks in front of a giveaway thread topic would help differentiate them from other chit-chat threads. Including genre/topic info would help people skim. Including format and eligibility info would help people filter out ones that they either don't want to read or can't participate in.

So, the group homepage's thread list might look something like this:

Authors, how do you do your research?
*** Giveaway: Regency Romance, pbk, US
*** Giveaway: Estonian Cookbook, ebook, EU
How much is too much gushing at author signings??
*** Giveaway: Epic Fantasy, pbk, US-CA-UK
What's the weirdest gift you've gotten from a fan?
Awesome pens--get your drool on!
*** Giveaway: Self-help (arthritis), PDF, Worldwide
*** Giveaway: Biography (Chuck Norris), hardcover, US
*** Giveaway: Arctic exploration memoir, pbk, CA
What do you drink while writing?
*** Giveaways: Fiction (19th C. Thailand), pbk, AU

And so on.

34> Sorry, but this is still 'the back room.' I do not see how this will be as easy for people to check on a daily basis as the ER and MG programs are now. You will still have to go through innumerable list of threads, and click on the 'enticing headings', one at a time, to determine if you want to have a look at this offering. There will be no cover to look at, and that is part of marketing a book.

'Awesome pens--get your drool on!'

The headings you listed would send me off to the liquor cabinet for a dip into the single-malt. They are, at best, juvenile, and would not entice me to explore a thread. (This is not a personal criticism, for I am sure you whipped them up in a hurry. They just made my teeth ache, when I read them.)

All of this is a band-aid, not a solution on an equal footing with the ER and MG program, which would allow the authors/publishers the same opportunities offered to mainstream publishers and straight-out giveaways.

My take on this is that LT admin just doesn't want to give independents the same opportunities - otherwise, they would do so. People committed to results achieve results, and actions have a loudness quotient that words cannot parallel.

CKmtl, let me know when you fill out the entries to the threads you listed. I'm especially interested in what authors drink while writing. My money is on caffeine beverages over licquor 3:1.

But seriously, good points, and your sample list is illustrative. That said, I also think K.J.'s points have merit. It's hard not to think that the publishers received a certain level of service, and then concerns were raised about spamming, so the barn door was shut after the (well-shod) horses escaped. I read much of the discussion in the various threads Sonya mentions, and I don't think that's exactly what happened ... but I can see that it may well appear that way.

Regardless of what may be offered in future, I hope this group can be used in a productive way for readers and authors.

I do not see how this will be as easy for people to check on a daily basis as the ER and MG programs are now.

What makes you think that people check ER and MG on a daily basis? I, for one, check ER once a month when the list is put up and almost never check MG any more. I check talk threads daily.

There will be no cover to look at,

There is nothing stopping you from posting a book cover. I do it all the time when I post book reviews on my own thread.

My take on this is that LT admin just doesn't want to give independents the same opportunities

LT has no need to publicize your book free of charge. This group is giving you an opportunity to do that here. You can take advantage of it if you want. If not, your loss.

This group can be arranged any way you'd like. Be creative and try it out. In addition, it also helps to be positive and friendly.

Best of luck...

I never look at Member Giveaways. I do look at this group. Just saying. And from the looks of posts 26, 27, 32, and others, I'd say there are probably a fair number of other people who are of the same mind.

While I understand K.J.'s perspective, I think this is a reasonable compromise which allows authors and small press publishers to hand-pick interested readers (as opposed to the random lottery aspect of the MG program) without costing a lot of LT staff time. It's all well and good to suggest that Sonya delegate, but LT has a finite number of staff members, and as has been indicated here and elsewhere, no LT giveaway program (ER, MG, or any other hypothetical system) is going to provide the funds for LT to hire more staff.

19> I just reread this message, as I prepared to get some rest. I guess the other parts of this message caught my attention more so than this, but I feel it needs addressing:

I think we have a difference in what the problem and the solution are. I don't disagree that Hobnob not as publicized as ER or MG, but LibraryThing is not primarily about promoting authors. We started ER and MG for our members, not ourselves.

And, independent authors/publishers on LT are what, then? Are we not members, and do we not offer an opportunity just like mainstream publishers? In fact, our offerings are from 'in-house,' which gives LT international bragging rights, just like the ER program, doesn't it? Or, is it because we are self-funded, self published, etc. that this is not attractive to LT?

We don't charge members or publishers for ER/MG, and it's 30-50% of my job. (To complete the math summary, we also don't charge members to join, only if they want to catalog more than 200 books, so we don't make money at the sign-up either. We don't make money on ER/MG is what I'm saying.)

I am fully aware of this, which is why I paid to become a life-member, to help support LT.

Promoting your book and getting the word out about a giveaway are of primary importance to authors, I understand that.

How is this different from the ER program? I assume the mainstream publishers have the same mindset, oui?

I've been reading the posts here, too, & like many others, only look at ER once a month and at MG, never.

As a reader, I'm incredibly appreciative & from my perspective yes, you totally get to use the "I'm having a baby" card, Sonya.

Isn't this all supposed to be fun?

I have been a member of the ER group since I joined. I look at the listing of books once a month when it is originally posted and I make my requests. I never look at it again. I have possibly looked at Member giveaway twice - mainly the reason why I don't look mpore is because I do not like scrolling through a list of books I'm not interested in to possibly find one that I might want to read. I just don't bother with it for that reason, it's not worth my time.

I think that it would be great to have a separate thread for each book giveaway with a designation of genre whether it is paperbaack or hardback, possibly the title. I could go through the list every day quickly and then look at only the threads fr the books that I might want to get. The Opening post could show the cover, and a short synopsis so that the readers here could then decide if they're interested. I

I personally think that this manner of giveaway is a greater advantage to the writer than either ER or Member Giveaway.

KJ - instead of looking at this in a negative way at what LT won't give you, look at it in a positive manner and see what benefit they are offering you.

37> LT has no need to publicize your book free of charge. This group is giving you an opportunity to do that here. You can take advantage of it if you want. If not, your loss.

I fully understand the lack of obligation. We are discussing the viability of what is being offered. As for your comment about 'your loss' I fail to see how that is either constructive or positive.

In addition, it also helps to be positive and friendly.

Where did you get the impression that I was being unfriendly? Because I disagree with the points being offered? Have I inferred that anyone is a lesser human being for disagreeing with my points? No, I have not. I have offered concrete solutions to a problem, and I have done so with good manners and conviction. Your comment to me, on the other hand, could be perceived as assumptive and condescending.

38> It's all well and good to suggest that Sonya delegate, but LT has a finite number of staff members, and as has been indicated here and elsewhere, no LT giveaway program (ER, MG, or any other hypothetical system) is going to provide the funds for LT to hire more staff.

My suggestion was because she had noted that she is preggers and was going to have to do her job 'one-handed.' How is it that Tim and the rest would leave her in such a predicament? Nothing about which I am aware, regarding their character, would suggest to me that they are of this temperament. Thus, delegation seems like a reasonable suggestion.

One benefit- the authors got a hobnob group before the publishers did. It's a place to have a conversation with readers. The ER list is pretty bad at the conversation thing. Enjoy the hobnob group. Use it. Ya never know- the publishers might ask for their own hobnob group.

>35 K.J.: I do not see how this will be as easy for people to check on a daily basis as the ER and MG programs are now.

To me, it's as easy as checking either of those.

If you've joined or watched the group, and have the Talk module active on your LT homepage, the listings will even pop up right there with no effort expended.

You will still have to go through innumerable list of threads, and click on the 'enticing headings', one at a time, to determine if you want to have a look at this offering.

I don't think the amount of effort involved would be much higher than what people normally expend scrolling through the ER list and occasionally reading an entire description (or, in the past, clicking on "More").

I mean, didn't it take you only a few seconds to look at that fake list and either dismiss them all or pick out 1-2 maybes?

(This is not a personal criticism, for I am sure you whipped them up in a hurry. They just made my teeth ache, when I read them.)

I did, and I was going for that. So, thanks?

Sorry, but this is still 'the back room.'

Maybe it is. That doesn't mean that making it a workable and attractive back room is a horrible idea, though.

I also think individual threads sound like a great idea (certainly much better than a single thread for all giveaways). Like a lot of people I check talk much more often than ER or MG. I really don't think it's much of a hardship to make a couple of clicks to decide whether to ask for a free book. Isn't the substance of the objection to MG that it is effectively too easy for people to request books they aren't really that interested in, and which they consequently don't review? How likely is someone whose interest in a book won't sustain a couple of mouse clicks to actually read and review that same book? I just don't see the problem, here. Perhaps it would be useful to see how a few giveaways in this group go before deciding that the system is broken.

#35 - KJ - Is there a reason that you are ineligible to participate in the ER program? Were you burned in the MG forum and are frustrated by this?

It sounds like LT isn't going to budge on creating a third forum for this type of giveaway. I am a reader who will be just as interested in this group with regard to giveaway/review books as I am in the monthly ER list. Of course I can only speak for myself but I don't see a problem scanning a list of threads for books that match my interests and background. I hope that this will be a place that authors and readers can connect in a better way than through an impersonal list of book titles and blurbs. I don't even look at the Member Giveaway page, never have and am really not sure why. I hope you will give this group a try. List a book and see what kind of response you get.

Possible fix for lack of book cover pic. Hyperlink the book title to the book page (complete with book cover that you upload) from your starting post that describes the book, you, your perfect reader...whatever you want us to know. If we are interested and need to see a visual, we can follow the link.

Wishing you all the best!
Wendy

41> KJ - instead of looking at this in a negative way at what LT won't give you, look at it in a positive manner and see what benefit they are offering you.

Negative? How about realistic? I bit on the 'benefit' once before, and it cost me six books, shipped around the world, with no reviews after six months, from people who had no affinity with what I wrote (by all appearances, in their libraries). MG was a band-aid, and I do not see this as anything but more of the same, although different in several ways. The number of persons who will be aware of this process will take time to develop. If independents were listed in the same manner as ER and MG, then this could happen within days.

I like the process, wherein the author chooses the winners. I don't feel comfortable that it is not being offered in the same way as the ER program. How many months before the Hobnob thing really permeates the core membership? How do new members of LT get the Hobnob thing under their belt and retain it? How are members reminded about Hobnob on a frequent basis, as any marketing professional will remind you that repetition is required to sustain a presence?

What you are suggesting is: this is what LT is offering. Live with it. I was hoping for something better. That's all, and my comments were positive, in that I was offering constructive opinion in the thread.

Sonya: How much time do you think it would it take, daily, and can the job be handled remotely, for someone to administer the scenario I suggested? I am not one to shy away from actively participating in a solution which I support. Feel free to send a private message, if you wish to discuss this further.

46> I guess I stirred some things up and I feel my insomnia waning, so I will have to make this my last post of the night (morning).

Is there a reason that you are ineligible to participate in the ER program? Were you burned in the MG forum and are frustrated by this?

Yes, I could not participate in the ER program, and I was given two reasons, although one was supposed to supplant the other, I think. The reasons were: I needed to give away a minimum of 15 books, and I was self-published, in that I financed my own publication, out of pocket, and was not with a mainstream publisher. I gave away 6 books, and shipped from Europe, to the USA, Poland and the UK. The majority of winners were from the USA.

As for the MG program, yes, it appears I was, although I have hopes that eventually (after six months) the winners will eventually post a review. Only one has listed my book in her library, though.

As for the technical aspects of linking pics and things, I have this knowledge and ability, but thank you for the thought.

44> How do you make sure that all members know about this option and remain aware of it after the first introduction?

Same as SqueakyChu/37. I check this group daily, ER monthly and MG only twice since it started.

I think this is a great start to try to connect authors with their preferred reviewers.

Sonya, you use the baby thing whenever you want. I have a new grandbaby due in October, when is your little one due?

Back to the dicussion --- is there anyway that programming could make it so that we can star a group instead of just a thread so that when we click on the "Your starred" category they would come up too? I look at my starred threads everyday and if we could make a group act like a starred thread, maybe that would be a solution?

**I don't think I explained that every well, I hope she understands**

52 -- is there anyway that programming could make it so that we can star a group instead of just a thread so that when we click on the "Your starred" category they would come up too?

Why, If you have the groups tab enabled you can click there and down on the right side is a list of your groups. Or customize your homepage to have the talk options right there (All topics | Hot topics | Your groups | Your posts | Your starred )

I don't understand Why you are trying to make this so complicated, KJ... The Hobnob group is now on the top right corner of everyone's home page. I am new to LT, but I agree with several others here that ER and MG are low on my list of priorities. I do however, go to talk/groups and peruse a) my starred threads and b) my favorite groups (of which this is one)

I have yet to see an author offer up any books albeit it has only been a week, but come on... Are you relying solely on LT to market your books? This is free marketing... Make the most of a good thing. You get to handpick those you give your books to, something you could not do through ER/MG. I see it as a win/win for all involved.

...If you have the groups tab enabled...
We can dis-able tabs? When did that happen?

...customize your homepage to have the talk options right there...
Note that your 'Talk' page will follow the setting there, which is annoying to some (well, me).

I have yet to see an author offer up any books...
I got one! Still finishing a couple of currently readings so I can give it my full attention.

Make the most of a good thing.
K.J., you keep saying that your arguments are valid and reasonable, but you really are starting to come across as a whiner.

Actually, I am most encouraged by the active participation of so many readers here. I am so encouraged that I will offer up a few books just to see how it goes and report back. I will start a thread so we can all experiment. It will be called: Hobnob Offer, Earth is Ours.

I would be most willing to have a look at further writers' works and review/discuss here. I do not, however, read eBooks formats, because the length of some books make this extremely difficult.

So. Who's willing to send books to Normandy (France)? ;-)

KJ Said: "Yes, I could not participate in the ER program, and I was given two reasons, although one was supposed to supplant the other, I think. The reasons were: I needed to give away a minimum of 15 books, and I was self-published, in that I financed my own publication, out of pocket, and was not with a mainstream publisher."

I don't understand what you mean. Neither of those reasons is meant to supplant the other. Those are the rules of ER. There are eligibility requirements for publisher participation in the program. You have to meet all of them, or you can't participate. That's unfortunate for you, but that's the way the program is set up. I also don't understand what you mean when you call MG a "band-aid," but it sounds like you wanted it to do something it was very clearly not set up to do (the rules indicate that selection is random and LT won't enforce review requests), and now that you've been given an option that will allow you to do what you want to do, you... don't like that either. So I'm confused. If the real problem is that you want self-published books to be eligible for ER under different rules than ER currently imposes on traditional publishers, that's kind of another topic for another thread, and probably not a winning proposition.

55> Keep us posted, and I wish you much success.

54> K.J., you keep saying that your arguments are valid and reasonable, but you really are starting to come across as a whiner.

I fail to see how that is an appropriate comment, and hardly constructive. I have an opposing point of view, and I even offered constructive help to implement what I feel is a better plan for all. What do you offer, besides personal criticism? Disagreeing with me is fine, and the latter part of your comment seems ill-timed and inappropriate.

53> I don't understand Why you are trying to make this so complicated, KJ... The Hobnob group is now on the top right corner of everyone's home page.

This is a location for new announcements. What exposure does the group have after it is no longer posted there?

57> I also don't understand what you mean when you call MG a "band-aid," but it sounds like you wanted it to do something it was very clearly not set up to do...

You are incorrect. I can only assume that you commented without going to the MG page and reviewing what is posted there. I was told that MG was the only place to post my offerings for reviews on LT, and that is exactly what the description for MG says: 'Authors may request that you review the book, so look for "Recipient is asked to provide a review in exchange for this book." at the top of the book description. It was 'clearly set up' to do what I was told to expect. Or, is my grasp of the English language not as firm as I had thought?

A footnote: There are parts of Sonya's proposal that are definitely positive, and I applaud the thought that went into them, and I feel it is not quite complete. My comments and suggestions were not meant to be inflammatory and I did not attack anyone, nor their stated opinion. It is just my point of view. Nothing more, nothing less. I am respectful of the viewpoints of others, and I seek nothing more than the same for my own.

K.J., you keep saying that your arguments are valid and reasonable, but you really are starting to come across as a whiner.
I fail to see how that is an appropriate comment, and hardly constructive. I have an opposing point of view, and I even offered constructive help to implement what I feel is a better plan for all. What do you offer, besides personal criticism? Disagreeing with me is fine, and the latter part of your comment seems ill-timed and inappropriate.

I rest my case.

46> It sounds like LT isn't going to budge on creating a third forum for this type of giveaway.

Yes, I would have to agree with you on that point. I felt it was worth the effort to offer a counterpoint, but it does appear that you are correct. It never hurts to try, though, oui?

--> 42

Your comment to me, on the other hand, could be perceived as assumptive and condescending.

I apologize if you perceived my comments in this way. I did not mean them to be so negative. Sonya now knows your request. She stated that she is not willing to start another feature at this time similar to MG or ER, neither of which work for you. You know. You've tried and been burned on MG. I'm not an author, but I was less than pleased after using MG.

Why not give this particular group a try as it is the only venue available to you now on LT that *might* work? If it doesn't, you'd have a more valid reason to complain to TPTB. Start your own thread. Set your own rules. See what happens. Caution: Do not offer to give away any more books than you can afford to lose without a review.

Perhaps (here's an idea...) just send out one book at a time to someone in your local area. When that review comes in, send out another book. It's a safer way to do the same thing, albeit time might be of essence.

My point is to use this new group to its best advantage. This is what you have now. I hear you when you say you don't like it, and it's not the best way to promote your book. It's what we have. Go for it!!

59> I rest my case.

Actually, Jim, you've just proven mine.

61> Well-stated, and I have stated my point view and it is not how I had hoped it would turn out. But, as you say, it is how it is, and we will have to make the best of it. (Merci, for the apol.)

I already have sent out books, through my other websites, and reviews are coming in. It seemed more sensible to send out books directly to my target audience, after the MG experience. So far, this is working great. The 'outside LT' reviews will, of course, not be posted on LT, per the rules.

The 'outside LT' reviews will, of course, not be posted on LT, per the rules.

Why not request that your reviewers post their reviews on LT? After all, LT is free to join. A plus is that a selection of LT reviews are also found in some library catalogues (per LT for Libraries).

I review books for LT's ER program, and some publishers ask that I post my review to GoodReads. Normally I would not do that, but I try to comply with the publisher's request in exchange for their supplying me with a free book.

There are so many ways to work "the system" to be of advantage to everyone.

64> As they are gracious enough to provide me with a review, I do not feel that I should push them to join a site, to further assist my efforts to promote my book.

Since several of them are aware of LT and have yet to join, I take this as an indication that joining LT is not high on their list, at the moment.

As they are gracious enough to provide me with a review, I do not feel that I should push them to join a site, to further assist my efforts to promote my book.

I understand. But, hey! LT provides reviews for publishers who request that reviews also be posted on LT's competition (GoodReads, for example).

For the ER program, the only thing required is that the reviewer post one review. Posting reviews to the competition or to Amazon, etc., is just the publisher's "suggestion".

Are the reviews of your book posted to a blog? Are they posted elsewhere as well? Do you suggest at all to reviewers where to post them?

I personally am not annoyed by suggestions from publishers of ER books to publish my reviews elsewhere than LT because I know that the purpose of these reviews is to market books. If I read a book that's exceptionally good, I'll try to post a review of that book on various sites (LT competition or not). I want a good book or a talented author to have due recognition.

66> Are the reviews of your book posted to a blog?

I appreciate your attempts to assist with my marketing, and I had already implemented some of your suggestions when I designed my website, and attached it to our other creative site. My book reviews are on the book's page description, along with links to excerpts from each story, so the reader can 'have a taste' before reading the book. Have a look, if you like.

http://www.kristophe.com

>50 K.J.: How do you make sure that all members know about this option and remain aware of it after the first introduction?

Sonya addressed that earlier on, in message 19. This will be a standing group, which means that it will appear in a designated spot on the LT groups page. It'll be in the newsletter. Word of mouth. Etc.

Also, if the group gets to be really active, it'll appear in the Active This Week section on the groups page.

Here's something else to consider: do you really want ALL members to be aware of and participating in these giveaways-for-review? Or would you rather that it be made up of a self-selected, enthusiastic subset that is dedicated to holding up their end of the reviewing bargain?

If ALL members are in here, you authors will have to sift through a lot more requests by, and possibly get burnt by, people whose main reason for requesting amounts to "Whee! Free Books!!"

Also, if the group gets to be really active, it'll appear in the Active This Week section on the groups page.

I agree! Do not underestimate the power of this.

68> Here's something else to consider: do you really want ALL members to be aware of and participating in these giveaways-for-review? Or would you rather that it be made up of a self-selected, enthusiastic subset that is dedicated to holding up their end of the reviewing bargain?

If ALL members are in here, you authors will have to sift through a lot more requests by, and possibly get burnt by, people whose main reason for requesting amounts to "Whee! Free Books!!"

From my viewpoint, the more the merrier. We get to select the winners, using whatever criteria is important to each of us, so we can select folks that:

A. Actually have a library that demonstrates some relationship to our writing.

B. Make an effort to read books in a timely manner.

C. Make the effort to post intelligent, well-thought out reviews.

In other words, we get to 'weed the garden.'

KJ, I'm well aware that it says anyone giving away a book on MG may request a review. What it also says is, "Unlike LTER, not reviewing a LTMG book will not count against your chances of getting books in the future—they can only help." Which means there's no enforcement, and I'm sorry you were burned by your experience, and I think it's crappy that people asked for your book and didn't review it, but the MG program just doesn't obligate them to do so.

71> No, it doesn't, and it was the only game many of us were allowed to play.

There was little opportunity for me to find out what previous authors had used MG to get reviews, and ask for feedback from them, beforehand. Had I had that information, which I received later, from several authors, I would not have offered any books on MG.

Sacre bleu! This thread has fairly exploded, with lots of good stuff and some not so good. K.J. is clearly not a whiner, but a guy struggling to improve certain suggestions others have made. That's called free speech. And tc53591, not more than three days ago I sent you my own book, gratis, so your statement about that is not exactly accurate. And Squeaky ...

Well, never mind. Let's move on.

I have three books to offer. I would like to see who might want them beforehand, so I can choose among them. This is not a theoretical construct: I have the books, title I Think, Therefore Who Am I?, And I'm ready to send them. Even if you live in Canada or Great Britain. Someone tell me how I go about doing that in this new conext.

And Squeaky ...

I'm all ears... (at least allow me to defend myself!) :)

Someone tell me how I go about doing that in this new conext.

I gave *suggestions* for what to do in this thread (post #8). The bottom line is that authors here can set up their giveaways as they'd like or organize themselves any way they'd like.

Copyedit52... your book was in the salon... not here. Totally different forum and situation and you know that. My statement was in reference to the fact that at the time I wrote it there were no threads offering up books. And Garrybabb/justjim I forgot that you did in fact exchange a book in the first thread. I apologize for that.

No offense was intended in any of my posts.

54> And while I am at it... justjim, I vaguely remember someone mentioning being able to enable/disable tabs... my bad... I did not research enough before I posted

Okay, Squeaky. I see your list of suggestions, and I'll have to figure out how I can post the book cover before I can proceed. (I am not as technosavvy as you other nerds.) And since that was on another thread, I reprint here SqueakyChu's suggested way to go about one of these new giveaways, with a nod to her:

1. Post a picture of the book cover at the top of the thread (if you need help with uploading the image, just ask).

2. Describe your book in a way that entices others to want to read it. It actually may be to your advantage to not "keyhole" a book into a specific genre, but it would be appropriate to suggest "if you like fantasy...".

3. Be *very clear* if the book is hard copy or an e-book.

4. State where requests should be made (for some, it may be to a blog or to an email address).

5. Post an end date for requests (although you don't have to stick by it if you get very few responses in the beginning).

6. Let others know when the giveaways are complete and you have no more books to offer.

7. Let the requestors know by when (what date) you hope to see a review (again, this should not be a hard and fast rule).

8. After you receive the reviews (or lack thereof, which I hope not), post a response to your request and let other LT authors know how pleased (I hope!) or how displeased (I hope not!) you were in the completion of this process.

I have to say that all the complaining about how LT isn't bending over backwards to cater to authors' every whim, at the expense of non-author members, isn't really endearing me to the complainers, or making me want to read their books. ER and MG are primarily for readers, and that's as it should be. Remember, authors are free to offer their books through MG -- they just don't get to sic LT on people who don't provide requested reviews.

>77 lorax:: Nicely put.

--> 76

I'll have to figure out how I can post the book cover before I can proceed

Edited to refer you to easier instructions: See post #98 below.

Thanks for that, Squeaky. As for loras and upstairsgirl, messages 77 and 78, if you don't like authors, why not go Tea Party and not read any books?

I like most authors. There are several author blogs I read daily. I don't like marketing or whining, and I'm not particularly well-inclined to anyone who thinks a site with hundreds of thousands of members need to be designed to satisfy a tiny minority at the expense of everyone else.

lorax, if you don't like marketing, why are you in a thread specifically created to discuss it?

Well, limited marketing is fine -- like "Hey, I have this great new book to give away", here in the group designed for it. Demanding that Sonya make it easy for authors to extend that marketing beyond the group specifically created for it, however, is not cool. In a word, it's the whining, to a far greater extent than the marketing, that bothers me. The authors got 90% of what they wanted, and they're complaining about the 10%.

It's becoming apparent that despite the initial promise this group showed, it's not welcoming to readers unless we're willing to toe the party line of a few authors about how much self-promotion is appropriate (i.e. an unlimited amount, anywhere and everywhere, with the full cooperation and help of LT). Well, it had a few good days, and I had one interesting conversation with an authors whose books are now on my "investigate" list. Too bad it doesn't look like that's going to last.

(By the way, copyedit? Insults aren't a great way to win readers. Just FYI.)

I'm hopeful that the current spate of complaints will be temporary, lorax.

The party line? Oh, puh-leese. Btw, lorax, insulting people who don't agree with you, or discomfort you, is not a great way to be offered books when authors have a choice about who they give them to.

--> 80

You're welcome! Hope that's helpful to everyone.

#79

You can get a < or > in talk messages by using &lt; and &gt;, it might make things a little clearer.

Thx! I always forget those codes. I should write them down.

There, it ends up looking like this:

<A HREF="http://www.librarything.com/author/weissmanpeter"><IMG SRC="http://pics.librarything.com/picsizes/03/1b/031b7de610e54f06367524541674331414f6744.jpg"></A>

Eek! It works!! :D

#88 Glad it works =)

Just a thought, but you might wanna edit #79 to include them so there's a nice, complete reference to direct people to.

Wow, copyedit52. Just... wow.

Hey all. I think I maybe should have hard-lined a bit more in my last post.

I am explicitly saying that Early Reviewers doesn't allow vanity/self-published authors because in previous threads, it's been made clear that members don't want these books in ER because they don't want to be offered badly written books.

That being said, I do believe that self-publishing is likely to become more and more popular with good authors. How we find the diamonds in the rough is a whole conversation to be had, perhaps in a new thread.

We did not build MG for authors. It was built to be like Bookmooch (members giving away single copies of books they didn't want any longer). We added the author parts (author designation, requesting a review) because it was asked of us by authors. That's as much development as we're going to do for it.

LibraryThing is a company of 10 people, with the work output of 20. (We all work more than 40 hours, Tim works like he's cloned, and we all work HARD.) There's no one else who does my job, and ER/MG is not a high priority in the greater LibraryThingscape. There. I said it.

The decisions we make about the site are almost entirely done so with the input of members, and because of that there are always going to be some who don't agree with the choices we make. But make them, we do.

So, let's get on with making Hobnob what it's supposed to be. There are a couple of really valuable chunks of information here -- about HTML, about format suggestions for giveaways. Perhaps a wiki page with sections for authors, showing how to do a giveaway here? I'd add the link to the description, if someone wants to create it. (On the LT wiki -- perhaps as a section on Hobnob under the author section?)

This thread is about exchanging books for reviews which is fine. The Hobnob group will be more than that as it develops. Authors can start their own thread to keep readers updated on their efforts if they so desire. Many won't offer books for reviews. It can take time for books to get written and published. Their threads might sink to the bottom of the group for awhile as events play out. A new post with updates will revive the thread. Here's an example of an author's journey through the process. It's an ER book this month also.

http://www.librarything.com/topic/19679

Author threads will be like all areas of LT. Some posters and authors will attract more viewers and responses than others. Others will spend their group capital or karma in not so wise ways. All groups start with the same potential on LT. They can thrive or they can flounder. I think this one has more than a fighting chance of staying active and attracting participants.

I think this one has more than a fighting chance of staying active and attracting participants.

I agree. I think it's worth noting that this thread is currently #1 in the list of hot topics.

I agree. I think it's worth noting that this thread is currently #1 in the list of hot topics.

...and to think some thought no one would read it. :)

--> 89

Will do, but running out the door now...

I look at this both as reader (and ER member) and writer (novel due out in September).

As a reader, I wholeheartedly support the ER program as it stands, and LT's refusal to add self-published books to the program. The fact is that ER members are, by and large, not interested in seeing self-published books on the ER list.

I think that looking at this group solely as a means of handing out review copies is short-sighted. If this is what the group becomes, it will likely become a home for people who want free books, which will bring the same frustrations as MG for those who want to get their books reviewed.

Readers want engagement. Writers want to engage an audience. This group is an opportunity for compatible readers and writers to form those relationships. This is far more valuable, I think, than getting a few reviews.

I agree aj I didn't join this group for the free books I joined to Hobnob with authors.

AJ says: "Readers want engagement. Writers want to engage an audience. This group is an opportunity for compatible readers and writers to form those relationships."

Amen, AJ.

How to post an image of your book cover to the Hobnob With Authors group

<A HREF="xxxxx"><IMG SRC="yyyyyy"></A>

That's the HTML code..

Now:
1. Open your work page as a separate window.
2. Where the xxxxx is above, put the URL of the work page. Leave the quotations marks where they are! You now have this:

<A HREF=”http://www.librarything.com/work/6451161”><IMG SRC="yyyyyy"></A>

Now:
3. Right click on your book cover.
4. Scroll down to "properties" and click on that.
5. See in the middle of that new box where it says Address (URL)? Grab that and substitute it for yyyyyy. Again, leave the quotation marks where they are. You now have something that looks like this:

<A HREF=”http://www.librarything.com/work/6451161”><IMG SRC=”http://pics.librarything.com/picsizes/48/49/484925d4052fc9959364b7a5667434d414f4541.jpg”></A>

6. Voila! You now have something that looks like this:

As you just learned, SqueakyChu, once you edit, Talk parses the codes and they go away!

Can you read this through the tears?

I figured that out. I just can't get the original image to come back.

Can you tell me how to put this on the wiki? Can I use the pointed brackets, or do I have to use the ampersand codes?

In WikiThing, you just wrap nowiki tags around everything and type exactly what you want to show.

Example here. Click on edit to see the tags (and say Hi!)

This doesn't work in Talk.

Did it! :)

Well done. It's a real PITA when you have to edit.

Now, everybody else, click on where it says "Message 98" and set it as a favourite post!

That nowiki code seems to be a a great help. I'll have to remember that whenever I work in the wiki!

To get it to stop parsing, I just turned off the hyperlinks and created the message in word. That worked fine as I had to repost it several times here in order to get the image to come back up. I'm not sure why it wasn't working, but it's there now. I also chose a different page with a better-sized image. That other one was HUGE! :D

I marked message #98 as a favorite message. Is there any way I can jump to there, or do I just have to look for the yellow color?

#105 -- Yes, if I'm doing a message that involves a lot of code, I try to remember to either cut and paste it before posting, so I can paste it back in if I need to edit, or to create it in a text editor like Notepad that doesn't do some of the wacky formatting things that Word does.

#106 -- In your Talk tab, you should be able to click on "Favorite Messages" over in the left-hand navigation bar and it will show you threads with the message number in parenthesis that you have favorited. Clicking on that should jump you straight to it.

Re: 106

That worked! I even found another message that I originally used as a test message. I just never tried to find it.

Couldn't you just get lost in the labyrinth that is LT? :)

Hello All,

I would be interested in reading and reviewing any and all types of books. I am an avid reader and have been reading and writing for a number of years.

I also write for a blog I own at http://www.realsimplehealthyliving4you.blogspot.com

Health related posts written by me, except a few bits of poetry not of my handiwork.

I am always interested in learning of new authors and there works of art and passion.

Please contact me if interested.

Thank you much,

Graicey Anniey

73> K.J. is clearly not a whiner, but a guy struggling to improve certain suggestions others have made. That's called free speech.

Merci, copyedit52.

Edited to add footnote: Sonya sent me a nice note, and although my thoughts were in another direction regarding self-published books, Hobnob is what is being offered, and smart people use the tools that are at their disposal.

I would be interested in reading and reviewing most types of books. I would probably have to exclude business or mathematics, and sports related books. I would say most fiction, non-fiction in the form of memoirs, biographies or historical fact are all of interest to me. Fiction category should include horror, fantasy, historical fiction, mysteries and short stories. I have a blog where I will post my reviews in addition to LT, and I will strive to post them on other sites at the suggestion of the author and depending on my ability to post on the site. You can find my blog at http://www.ladylazarus.blogspot.com. Please contact me if you are interested. Feel free to visit my profile page here on LT also.

I've been on LT about month and I'm still trying to figure it out how to update my own profile, find other authors, readers, reviewers etc.. I belong to another author/reader site that is much more user friendly and easier to navigate. Authors are easily identified, groups well organized, and updates are a snap.

That's said, I have put copies of my book on MG and continue to 'mine' LT to find my way. Everything is so diversified on LT it's almost too difficult to keep track of things.

I ran across this thread and have read all the posts and see good points and bad. What Sonya is trying to do is a good idea and would make contact between reader and author more direct. Yet I agree with K.J. about the confusion and have wondered how many 'reviewers' take advantage of free books but don't return the favor to the author with an actual 'review'. At least with LT and using MG there is a recourse for the author not to be taken advantage of by citing that particular 'reviewer' or member.

Yes, as authors we promote ourselves by giving away free copies of our books. We don't always expect a review by a reader, but when there is an agreement - it should be honored on both sides. The author should be timely in sending the book, and the reviewer should be timely in providing the author a review.

The copies of my book I have listed on MG are just for the US. Although I have sent copies international, but those people were personally known to me or a friend and I received reviews. Herein lies the "Catch 22" for authors - the expense of shipping, not making a dime off the book we invested in, while 'hoping' for a favorable response.

I am willing to do more beyond MG, and enjoy interacting with readers, but reviewers have to understand that authors are not 'banks' for free books. It is our livelihood and our passion. It not only cost in time, money and effort, but a piece of ourselves go out with each book and we become vulnerable to the reader.

>112 ShawnLamb:

I think it's also worth pointing out that while an author usually receives a few free books from publisher at the time of publication, after that we have to purchase them, just like everyone else. We get a bookstore-like discount, but they ain't free to us.

Shawn,

I think that for you and KJ if, before you award a book to a reader, you check to see how many reviews they have written in the last six months, you will get a good idea about whether that person is going to honor their commitment or not. Personally, for me, I review every book that I read - some get lengthy reviews, others a few paragraphs. But the track record of the reader should give you an idea of whether your expectations will be fulfilled or not.

As for navigating LT, if there is anything that you want to know, just ask, the people here are very helpful and friendly.

There is a box on the upper right-hand side of your profile page labeled, creatively, "Your Profile." Click on the settings, and you can edit to your heart's content.

>113 PhaedraB:. Exactly right. And the number of ARC (advance reader copies) the publishers provide an author is getting fewer and fewer. More promotional dollars are being spend by authors out of their own pocket then in the past when publishers did the job of marketing.

>114 cyderry:. Thanks for the advice. I do screen the reviewers - both in the US & international. I was simply adding my "2 cents" to the complains I've read on LT about some reviewers. LT is rather convoluted in structure and I'm still searching to discover the madness to their method - wink wink :)

>115 MerryMary: I'm slowly but surely becoming acquainted with my profile. :) I was more referring to threads, connecting with others, finding readers, authors, etc. I find authors using pseudonyms a bit confusing. Why hide your identity if the point of being on LT (or another author/reader site) is to connect with the readers? If it wasn't for the *(author page)* note next to the name, I wouldn't know.

Good point. As I'm not an author, I hadn't thought of that, but you're right!

There used to be a Your LT Authors gadget on the profile page that showed links to the profile pages of authors of books in your catalog. I think it might be a feature they're still working on and I hope it comes back!

To the authors that are here,
it saddens me that you are not "paid" for the books that you are giving to the readers when all they have to do is read it and then write down their reactions and impressons of the book as their part of the fee payment. I get numerous ARCs from publishers and giveaways and feel badly when I can't start that book immediately. I have a basket for all the books that I have been given to review and they are generally the highest priority. (Sometimes the ILL have to come first because of the short loan period.) It's my feeling that if I have expressed an interest in a book and either a writer or publisher has been kind enough to send it to me free of charge, the very least I can do is read it and tell them what I thought of it. That is my responsibility to them. What a small price to pay for the pleasure or reading a book just to tell someone else about. Granted, the books don't always live up to my expectations, but I have only in one instance not completed the book. Even then I wrote a revew of my impressions of what I read and specified why I abandoned the book. I gave the writer/publisher the feedback they had requested. It bothers me that there are people in this world that seem to be out for a free ride and do not take their responsibilities seriously. I sincerely hope that you all are ablle to find responsible readers to revew your books.

Thanks, cyderry, appreciate the encouragement and sentiment.

Despite having initial problems navigating and getting accustom to LT, this has been a good, frank, open discussion.:)

Who knows what author thread where I can share this amazing news? I might as well do it here:

A couple of months ago I received an e-mail from a woman in Rome asking about my book, I Think, Therefore Who Am I? from a new publishing house, she said, wondering if Mr. Weissman (they didn't seem to know I was the author) could authorize a translation, if it turned out they were interested in publishing it. I thought it was a scam to extract money from me, like one of those e-mails people get from Nigeria.

I mean, no U.S.company has ever wanted to publish any book I have ever written. And now someone might want to publish me in Italian, a language I do not even speak? It was bizarre.

But I am not a shy person, so I e-mailed her back, saying the book and the rights to it were mine, and in subsequent weeks I sent them a copy and then more or less forgot about it.

This morning I received an e-mail from Rome: this new company wants my book, will send me an advance and listed the royalty payments for sales up to 10,000 copies, if I accept, with a scheduled pub date of December 2011.

Unbelievable.

Congrats Copyedit!!!

That's great; congratulations!

Maybe there should be a whole thread for author news? I'm sure people are interested in hearing stories like this.

That sound fantastic. Hope you get a good translator though. There are many horror stories about inappropriate translations.

Congratulations and all the best.

That is really amazing and wonderful news, copyedit! It pays to be persistent.

I wonder what it is with this Italian thing, though? Another LT author, Michael Zadoorian, was also recently published in Italian even though his previous books were in English. Nothing against Italy. I'm just curious why publishing houses in Italy particularly are looking for English material to publish in Italian (or is this just coincidence?).

Beats me about the Italian connection, Squeaky. Being a self-centered sort, I assumed it was my karma. Anything unusual in the way of good news that has ever happened to me has had a bizarre twist.

Within three weeks you will turn out to be allergic to Grana Padano. Serves you right! ;)

I have a lot of studying to do, obviously. I mean, what is Grana Padano, justjim? And is there anyone here who can tell me what the title of my book, I Think, Therefore Who Am I? would be in Italian?

copyedit, you should get a giggle over this. (See blog entry for March 13). It's a graphic review (in Italian, of course!) of Zadoorian's book of short stories. I wonder if you'll have something similar posted? :)

By the way, all of the reviews of your book here on LT are overwhelmingly positive, which is good because I recognize the names of some reviewers whose opinions I respect.

Best of luck with your recent success!

Breaking into the thread of congratulations for a moment to reply to ShawnLamb, who said in post #115:

Why hide your identity if the point of being on LT (or another author/reader site) is to connect with the readers?

Believe it or not, some of us are here to catalog books, not primarily to sell them. Contact with potential readers is a nice bonus. (Hint: you can identify this kind of author by the fact that they have other books in their library which they didn't write themselves.)

I now return you, etc.

#129
Ten minutes with google translate suggests "I Penso, dunque chi sono io?"

Half a second with either Google or Wikipedia will discover Grana Padano.

Do you need a research assistant?

Congrats copyedit52!

I just wanted to say a quick "THANK YOU" to all the authors and publishers who are able to give away books. I cannot financially afford to buy books as often as I wish I could but I get gift cards to books stores at every birthday and Christmas. I have only been on LT for a few weeks but I have received my first free book from LTER. I have already started it and I look forward to writing a review. I find it to be an honor to be able to review a book!

I have listed all the books I own in my library but I don't have reviews for all of them because it has been years since I have read some of them. I hope that I still get chosen to review more books even though I have a lot more books in my library than I have reviewed.

I do not understand not writing a review for a book. If you are going to read it, you should take 10-15 minutes and review it. I have not talked to any reader who doesn't think about the book when it is finished...so why not write down what you think and post it. It seems pretty easy to me. :)

Sorry for writing so much but I really hope that the authors and publishers continue to offer books because I LOVE to read new books! :)

>132 justjim:. Ah, cheese, I see. Till now I've been a French kinda guy, with cheeses and wine, but maybe that'll change. And maybe I will need a research assistant, Jim, though you do know that I'm a freelance copyeditor, no? (I just finished editing the latest Anne McCaffrey, who I notice is one of your favorites.) So I'm expected to do research; but I was too giddy this morning to do the usual.

>131 gwernin:. You misunderstand what I'm saying. I NOT here just to SELL my book, nor was I trying to insult anyone. Your "Hint" of how to 'identify this kind of author..' sounds like you took offense and all I was doing was posing a simple question of 'why hide your identity?" What difference does it make in connecting to readers for whatever reason you're here?

As for 'listing' my personal books - I own over 300 - there isn't enough room to list those or their ratings. I also I have copies listed on MG and have given away many - both ARC and those I have purchased for personal appearances - including to people like damejennylynn who can't afford them both in the US and international, along with donating to local libraries and schools. I'm a YA author and very often kids can't afford books.

But why should I be judged for what I list or don't list? I wasn't judging any fellow author for not using their real name, just asking a question.

#135 -- I'm a little confused by this statement: "As for 'listing' my personal books - I own over 300 - there isn't enough room to list those or their ratings." I'm guessing you mean that, in a free account, you can only list 200 books . . . but I'm not sure how ratings comes in to it. You can rate any book you add, it doesn't take away from your ability to add more books.

I'm not trying to judge you in particular, by which books, or how many books, you choose to list. However, as gwernin says, some authors create a profile on LT only to promote their own book(s). They join, add just their own book(s), possibly post a spiel about their book in a couple of places, and are never seen again. (You have obviously done more than this, sticking around and trying to figure out how things work, which is great.) While the sort of thing I've described above as typical of some authors is better than no participation in LT at all, it doesn't tell me much about the author beyond what I could learn from their website or their dust jacket copy. On the other hand, it's much more interesting to me, as a reader, to see at least a sampling of the books an author enjoys, apart from their own work. If you don't want to list your entire library, maybe you could list a few favorites, or books that inspired you in your writing, or reference books you used.

#136 - Yes, I mean the volume allowed here on LT. And yes, I can and will be adding books. And, yes, I'm sticking around because I like to interact, exchange thoughts and ideas. I also tend to interject observations and thoughts from a different perspective from time to time.

For example - just because an author lists books they've read, isn't an indication of their writing style or ability. Only their works can tell you that, along with discussions and their blogs. These can tell you more about the author than a book list.

And good or bad, I'd rather do things under my own name than a pseudonym. - Such as generating this discussion. :) Other authors choose differently that's fine.

137>

There is no limit to the "volume allowed here on LT". There's a limit to what you can get for free, but most bibliophiles are more than willing to shell out $10 for a year or $25 for a lifetime to go beyond that.

I actually like Shawn's idea of authors going by their real name, although I *do understand* (so no need to argue with me on this point) why some authors don't wish to do this. When writing to an author under a userid on LT, I often don't feel that same connection to the author as I do when I can use their real name or, at least, a name that I can identify from their userid. In a bookstore, I'd be apt to connect a name that I recognize to a book, if I saw a similar name. That might lead me back here to learn more about an author's writing.

A good example is Peter Weissman, who is copyedit52 here. I've already looked up his real name mutiple times. From his userid, I only know he's a copy editor. I would imagine that an author would like to market his or her name as well in order to be more well known. That costs nothing and is not prohibited by terms of service. :)

ETA: I love Neil Gaiman's userid on Twitter, @neilhimself, as if there were no other more important Neils. :)

138 & Others that do 'list'. I guess to me a 'list' isn't important. Having grown up in an age before the computer & internet, I read books based upon the author's previous work that I liked, the book jacket or recommendations from friends. I didn't care about what books the author read, their personal lives, political views or whatever. All that mattered to me was did I enjoy the story and want to read more by the same author? It was more simplistic back then.

The internet has changed all that. On LT and other such sites, readers want to gather as much information about an author before reading their book(s), whether it's book lists, blogs, website, reviews, opinions, whatever. It places pressure on authors to be more open, vulnerable and available to the public at large before a single word of their book is read. That's a bit intimidating to some who are trying to launch their careers. I worked in Hollywood, so I've grown a thick-skin.

Don't misunderstand, this isn't an admonishment or condemnation of the present time, simply an observation of the different mind-sets from one who has seen both eras, pre-personal computers and after.

ShawnLamb: You've twice implied that there's something wrong about an author having an account under something other than their "real" name. But I created my account (two weeks after LibraryThing came on line, btw) to catalog my reference books, before there was any such thing as a LibraryThing author. (Which is part of my point.) Should I change my long-established identity in order to promote my books? I don't think so.

140>

I'm not quite sure how what you're saying is a response to what I said; can you clarify, please? I'm talking about readers cataloging their books, not about readers judging authors by their books, though I'll admit I'm more likely to take an author who I've never heard of seriously here if they've entered books I like than if the only books in their library are ones they wrote. It seemed from your earlier posts that you thought the 200-book limit was absolute (which suggests you haven't done much browsing of others' libraries), and it was that apparent misconception I wanted to address, not to chastise you for not entering more books if you don't want to. Your choice.

readers want to gather as much information about an author before reading their book(s),

I think I'm an exception to this rule. I love discovering new books and like to read an author's biography only after reading a book by a new-to-me author.

>140 ShawnLamb:: I was just talking with a friend about how much things have changed over the years. I think there are pros and cons with "knowing" the authors in advance. (But I guess there are pros and cons to just about everything in life.)

My Opinion (I know I don't speak for everyone): I like the ability to "meet" an author via a website like this or email. It makes the author feel more like a real person. Sometimes it seems like famous actors are not "normal people" but that is untrue. Being able to talk to authors, like yourself, makes it more enjoyable to read their books. The author comes across as a real person. After "meeting" some authors, I have picked up one of their books...some I liked and some I didn't like as much but it didn't change my opinion of the author as a person. I can definitely see your point in the intimidation aspect. I would be intimidated but I am also grateful that we do have the opportunity to "meet" so many authors that we may not have been introduced to if it wasn't for this technology.

I'll take these in order.

141 - No, I'm not implying that. I felt the need to defend myself to your 131 post since by your wording. . .

"Believe it or not, some of us are here to catalog books, not primarily to sell them. Contact with potential readers is a nice bonus. (Hint: you can identify this kind of author by the fact that they have other books in their library which they didn't write themselves.)"

So since I didn't have a list I'm just a seller? All I asked was a simple question of why author's don't use their real name? and stated, I use my name regardless. You don't, fine. I'm not saying change. Nor was I implying you had to..it was JUST a question.

142 - I was addressing the emphasis on ' book lists' in general (on LT & Other sites) and the differences in times past of how authors were viewed compared to today. Some, like SqueakyChu and others are exceptions. But there is a great emphasis placed on making book lists for a variety of reasons. Gwerinn wants to catalog under an pseudonym and make a list, fine. I'm not into making lists and using my own name - that should be fine too. But asking a simple question or not making a list shouldn't raise ire or enact veiled hints for not doing what someone else does.

TO All - the internet has changed interaction from face to face to distant and impersonal, leaving great room for misinterpretation and misunderstanding. It is a useful tool, but it is also a bane to communication and relationship.

So, in conclusion for today. My intent was never to insult, imply or upset anyone. I was simply engaging in conversation and making observations, nothing more.

Although, now I have place a few book up there and am willing to answer questions when asked.

About giveaways and reviews...

I'm giving away some books (till the end this month) and I'm thrilled that so many respond, at this time far beyond what I have to offer. There's a certain flattery in that. I only wish I could provide books to the number requesting them. As for getting reviews of my work, obviously that is what I would like, and of course it's the idea behind the giveaway. However, I rather think along the lines of "giving a gift," and if the recipient feels compelled to reciprocate (post a review), that is their choice. It's not right to give a gift and then ask, "Okay, I gave. Now where's mine?"

Also we must consider that not all readers enjoy writing (as in, a review). I've engaged in other conversations about this subject, and had responses from readers who tried to explain that in reading other reviews which they felt were of better quality than they could provide, they felt it best they keep quiet. I will say here as I have in other places, I urge all readers of any book (not only mine) to express their thoughts. No one here is going to judge the quality of any review, so please, post them, we all want to know.

The other response from readers that I've encountered goes back to the basic tendency of most people to be polite. Like Mama always said, "If you have nothing good to say, say nothing." Well, I appreciate people and their manners, though again I would urge readers to speak their mind. There is no need for anyone to be rude or mean-spirited, but there is nothing wrong with letting others know "I didn't like it." For the rest of us, a reason why "one does not like it" would be nice, to benefit not only the author but future potential readers as well. Besides, why you don't like it might be exactly why someone else does. You never know, and thank goodness, we're all different.

To sum up, I'm looking forward to some reviews of my work. I don't expect or demand it. I would rather kindly ask please. And if that awards me with criticism of my work, so be it. How else will I know if I've missed the mark?

Thanks for listening.

ShawnLamb: You still don't get it.

LT is in origin a book cataloging site. Cataloging your library is not "making lists" - it's sharing information in a community.

I am not operating under a pseudonym or attempting to be anonymous. My author page is tied to my profile page and to my personal blog; anyone can find out who I am as easily as they can find you. In addition, I have used the name Gwernin on-line and off for over 15 years; it's as much my name as the one I was given.

If you don't mean to insult anyone, I suggest you stop doing so.

145>

You're new here, so you probably aren't aware of the history of LT. In a nutshell, it goes like this:

In the beginning, there was a book cataloging site. There were no social features beyond seeing who shared your books. People joined because they wanted to keep track of the books they owned, or read, or were interested in. Criticizing an emphasis on cataloging is appearing to be ignorant of this history. That's the first and still one of the primary, if not the primary, purposes of LibraryThing.

Then came Talk, and more social interaction. As part of that, authors started trying to promote their works.

Then -- and this is about where you came in -- Tim decided to make a group specifically welcoming to author self-promotion, which isn't appropriate elsewhere on the site. But it's a tertiary purpose at best, not the raison d'etre of the site as a whole as you seem to think. Cataloging is much, much more important to the nature of the site.

Also, your claim on your profile that you used to have "over 300 books" is probably counterproductive; anyone who cares about cataloging is probably going to say something like "so? Is that it? I have more on my unread pile than that!", while people who don't care won't visit your profile in the first place.

148: thanks, lorax, for saying that more clearly and calmly than I could manage.

This sounds like a wonderful idea! Thanks!

#148 -- Well said.

Like SqueakyChu (#143) I often like learning more about authors after I have read their works -- it's not that I want a character reference before trying anything they've written (I try new authors all the time, as most of us do, on the strength of nothing more than an interesting premise or flap copy), but after I've read something I really enjoy, it's sometimes neat to learn a little more about the author. And that's where being able to view their LT catalog comes in.

I'm feeling that my choice of words in the last sentences of post #136 was poor -- rather than "list" I should have said "catalog." I was using the two interchangeably, when it sounds to me as if you (post #145) seem to see the cataloging function of LT as something much more flat and one-dimensional -- "just" a list. And, of course, there's nothing to prevent anybody from cataloging as many or as few books as they like and posting in Talk, so if you don't want to catalog anything else, that's your prerogative. My suggestions on what sorts of things to add if you didn't want to add your entire library were intended to be helpful, but as with all unsolicited advice from complete strangers on the internet, feel free to disregard it! :-)

122> Congratulations for your good news, Peter!

Merci, K.J. I'm still somewhat in (benevolent) shock.

Let me pose a question to you and others, in lieu of finding a specialist who knows about contractual things. This Italian outfit offered me an advance and listed a royalty schedule for the paperback and hardcover, a percentage that went up as the number of books sold increased. All fine and well; I wasn't about to turn anything down. And it should be noted that I haven't signed any contracts yet.

Here's the thing: they would have the rights for about ten years after publication, which they say will be in December 2011. A long time. Now, since they're translating the book--into Italian--I assume that this refers to rights to the translated book. Which would be okay with me; I can't envision needing to find another Italian book company, That is, I assume the book in English is still my property, to peddle to the French, the Germans, or anyone else who might want to translate it--or even the Americans(!), if some commerical publisher decides it wants the book.

But is it possible the "rights" the Italian company refers to are more than just the translated book? That they mean the rights to the entire book, including the current English version?

Excuse me if these sound like stupid questions, but at the moment I am quite stupid about such details.

Be specific: ensure that the contract language grants them a ten-year licence to publish an Italian translation of the book, and specifies that all other rights remain with the author.

Edited to add: if they're offering you an advance and an increasing royalty scale, that's good. Pay attention to any royalties reserved against returns, though.

Thank you, A.J. Good advice, no doubt. And as I said, I haven't signed any contracts yet. But in order not to impinge on my celebratory mood, what do you (and others) think is the likelihood that it refers to the translated book (which no doubt entails a bit of work on their part) rather than the whole thing?

I'm sure they're not trying to grab additional rights. Giving you a sliding scale of royalties is a pretty good sign you're dealing with reasonable people.

So keep celebrating. Congratulations.

Okay. Thanks. And for the congrats too. I take back what I said about you.

# 153

You are right to be careful. Expect them to take advantage of you ... if they can. I would suggest you get an agent to negotiate the contract. Since you already have an offer, it might make it easy to find an agent. Let them look after your interest, since they know where the pitfalls are. The percentage you pay to an agent is well worth it, assuming they keep you from being taken advantage of; that could be costly.

It's taken quite some time to read all entries. I do not know what a "typical" LTer would post here but for me it has been interesting! I describe LT as a "site for people who care about books." True, we care about them with differing degrees of passion and points of view. Aspiring authors seeking readers might find willing readers but how? I see the crux of this question as finding a way to put books into the hands. I was delighted when I found the "Early Reviewer" possibility. Books in my library catalog with copyright from 1978-1982 are books I got from publishers. I did not even need to request them. They arrived at our university's radio station where I was "The Book Hustler." Many more arrived than were reviewed, but still they came. (Copies of my Friday reviews did go to the publishers but not scripts from the radio show since it was an unscripted 15 minutes with a non-reading friend.) But the world has changed. Publication and mailing costs have increased. Smaller publishers are handicapped by this reality. When I first saw the designation "Member Giveaway" I assumed it was just that: a member, clearing shelves, or finding a duplicate etc. willing to send it to another member. Direct, member-to-member. How congenial. Then I began to notice comments about self-publishers, vanity press, small press, etc. etc. The tone of some comments was disturbing. That is why I thought, aha, "hobnob" seems a good solution. Small press or self-publisher willing to engage readers, willing to send galleys, or even send books. But after reading 158 comments (and more have come in, I'm sure) I am baffled! Here's a chance for unmediated contact. What's wrong with that? You can engage or not! You'll be reviewing a book you requested.
QWITCHERBELLYAKIN!!

153> Let me pose a question to you and others, in lieu of finding a specialist who knows about contractual things.

A hard lesson I learned at a very young age was to have those who know about such things look very carefully at the details.

You will get advice from many of us in this thread, even some with a specific expertise in law, although unless specified that it is related, is likely only to be general and should only be applied to your circumstance during the thought process. If you have questions about the contract, the first aspect that is important is in what locale is the contract being 'governed.' My guess is that this would be in Italy, and my next suggestion is to have a lawyer with knowledge of copyright law in Italy advise you of the pluses and minuses of the contract, as it applies to you - a non-resident. It should be clear cut and it should be okay, but do not take anyone's advice for which you have not paid. Free advice is worth the amount you pay for it: nada.

A contract is too important not to get right the first time. It is possible for you to meet with an attorney in the USA, whose practice is involved heavily in international copyright law, and he/she will be able to advise you on the the content of what is being offered. It sounds good as stated by you, and the only way to make sure it turns out good, is to seek professional advice. It will not be expensive to have a contract reviewed, but it will be expensive to recapture rights that were lost because you did not do your homework. Play safe, mon ami.

PS - Ten years is a long time, and specifics for performance should be added to the criteria for acceptance of these terms. If they do not actively make use of their rights, they have merely tied your hands for that duration. It is a looooooong time to be tied up. Talk to a professional.

Sobering advice, K.J. But welcome. Thanks.

161> A good publisher will respect your decision to have the contract reviewed by an attorney. They, too, want to know that they are dealing with someone who will conduct his business on a professional level. It saves everyone alot of future grief.

A long shot, I know, but do you know of any such attorneys?

163> I use a man in Washington D.C., who has a particular interest in copyright law, in its relationship to art, but I might not recommend him for this purpose, although his field is related. You need a more comprehensive approach, from a specialist in international copyright law, relating to Italy/EU. Here is what I would suggest:

Contact the local New York Bar Association. They should be listed in the Yellow Pages. Tell them you have a need for an attorney who practices in the field of international copyright law, with experience in Italian copyright law (it may be true that knowledge of EU copyright law will suffice, now). They will give you names of local/statewide contacts. I would be surprised to find one in Woodstock, but there is always a chance. I would not suggest the use of a 'general practice' attorney for this.

May I assume that the contract they are offering is printed in English? If not, my guy translates legal documents for his clients, from several languages. If you like, I will send him an email and ask him if there is anyone he recommends for you to contact. Feel free to use my email address for further discussion at www.kristophe.com if you wish.

Okay, Kristophe. I'll make note of all this. (I've started a file.) In fact, all I got was an acceptance e-mail and the general terms of the offering and the contract, but no actual contract, in Italian or English. And following your last post, I e-mailed my brother, who is a lawyer for a very high-powered firm, also in Washington, D.C., to get his response.

While also cautioning me that I needed a specialist, he wrote:

I will need to look at the contract they propose. You should try to get them to accept application of NY law to the contract. The contract should also clearly state that you are granting them rights only for the Italian version of the book and that you retain all copyright and publication rights for the book in any other language. It probably should also make clear that you retain all rights to electronic versions of the book other than ones in Italian.

For now, I'm gathering info, such as yours, and his, and awaiting what the publisher sends next.

165> I might suggest emailing the Italian party and asking to review the contract they are considering offering to you. It will be difficult to get advice, without a contract available to review. They will understand that you would want to have it professionally reviewed, before making a decision. It's a very common business practice, in all fields.

Edited to add: Is your brother with Gibson Dunn & Crutcher, by any chance?

165> I went back to finish reading your note and saw your brother's feedback. I do not think they will allow the contract to be governed under New York copyright law. It would not be in their interest to do so. However, the Berne Convention covers much of what would be a concern, so it would be a good idea to read up on it, and to be certain that the agreement adheres to the Berne Convention For the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, now known as the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988, to which the USA and Italy are now signers. Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention_for_the_Protection_of_Literary_and...

No, my brother is with WilmerHale.

Oh, what a lot of work! To research and stay on top of all this! When I was a self-published writer for a crummy outfit, and before that an unpublished writer with his work in filing cabinets, life was so much easier.

But seriously, thanks, K.J. I'll look into all this soon. It comes at a time when I'm readying my next book, a memoir of the seventies, for another self-publishing outfit, this one operating out of England. So I'm feeling somewhat overwhelmed.

168> Oh, what a lot of work! To research and stay on top of all this! When I was a self-published writer for a crummy outfit, and before that an unpublished writer with his work in filing cabinets, life was so much easier.

Welcome to success, mon ami. Keep your chin up. It's not as hard as it all sounds, and once you do a little bit of homework, get a copy of the contract to send to a reputable copyright attorney, the rest is a breeze. Do keep in mind that just about every other author on this site would love to have your 'dilemma.'

D'accord! I much prefer my dilemma to what preceded it. And I do appreciate the advice, and it's quite likely you'll hear from my again on this, K.J., when I take you up on everything you offered and ask for more and you begin to think, Who is this Piero who is busting my cojones?

170> No worries. I'm happy to help.