Multiple Authors

Is there a way to enter more than one author in the Author field?

If not, is there a way to have additional authors listed in the Other Authors field also be listed in the Author Cloud?

In short, no and no :-( It's a significant issue - treating all authors as equal. Tim and his chums are aware of it; I believe that it's on their things-to-do list, but it's a long list, so no harm in bringing it up again, as it's an issue that affects quality of data, and something a lot of us would like to see!

In long(er):

If you enter more than one author in the Author field, you create a unique author (say, "Pohl, Frederick and Jerry Pournelle"). Which makes things very complicated - especially if someone then helpfully combines that unique author into one (or worse, both) of the authors mentioned.

And currently Other Authors are completely ignored in terms of 'owning' that book. Not to mention all the books that were entered before the current Other Authors field existed, that just have a single text field to hold all the Other Authors... As mart1n said, that's something Tim et al have said they're working on, but it's not a top priority at the moment. Thanks for bringing it up!

Ah yes, as I have said before, I would love the opportunity to add all the other authors I currently have in the old format to the new format . . . .

#1
I could have sworn that a couple of authors showed up in my Author Cloud who were only listed as other authors on my books, so that when I clicked on the author name in the cloud, no works showed up with checkmarks on their author page. But now I can't remember who they were.

5>

That's an artifact of combination, not of Other Author status.

5, 6> Yeah - if somebody enters Book A with Jerry Pournelle as the author, and someone else enters the same book with Frederick Pohl as the author, when the book gets (properly) combined it's semi-random which author comes up. The one with the most books attributed to him/her - but if that's even or close to it, or just after a combination, you may get the other author showing up and the book may or may not show on his/her page.

This is a pet peeve of mine, too. Allow multiple authors!

Multiple authors are allowed...the extra ones don't count though.

They won't tolerate this oppression much longer!

With Auther sets I've started putting them both in the main author category, in the same order as on the cover (to force a unique author for that writing combo)
I then go down to "Other Authors" and enter all of the Authors singly (in hopes that this will register on each of their pages.)

The reason I came here though - when you add an author you have list of options - Author, Editor, Cover Designer, Etc to designate this author as (and since the publishers are starting to include this info...)
I keep utlizing the Other option for these authors - such things as MAP, that are not in the list. Works okay, shows on the CK page but...
The next time I have an 'author' who drew all the maps, I have to enter "Other - maps" again. Leading to the potential of phrasing it 20 different ways on 20 different books, eliminating the possibility of going to the Map Authors page and seeing ALL of them (or all of the individuals work, as the case may be)

Programers: Is there a way to set it so that when someone enters Other = XX, it will enter into the database and allow me to choose a common form of the title?
For ease of dropdown, this secondary list could drop ONLY when I click other - then it gives me the options available and the New text box.
Further modify it where, when ..oh 2000... people have selected this particular type of author it goes on the main listing (and if a particular type has not been selected for a year or so, it is moved to the OTHER listing)
Just a thought.

11> As I mentioned in Message 3 - putting both authors in the main author means that the book then appears on neither author's page.

It's a pain any way you look at it, but creating new unique authors for every collaboration will require more cleanup than putting one author as Main and the other(s) as Other. If you do it that way, the book appears on one author's page and when Other Authors gets finished it will appear on all of them; with a unique author, you and anyone else who has used that author is going to have to go back to their individual books and change the combo author into one or the other of the collaborators when Other Authors starts working.

Also the books are likely not to combine automatically, and be hard to do manually, so your book will either be isolated, or if it does get combined it will be on one author page anyway, and not your combination author.

I agree. The author field should only ever be filled by single authors.

> 3 "Tim et al have said they're working on, but it's not a top priority at the moment."

I think the inadequacy of the current author system is the single biggest flaw in LibraryThing. I wish it were top priority.

Crypto-Willobie, I agree. I think the most important thing to improve is the handling of multiple authors, on the sides of both authors and works. I think it just embarrassing how messy this system is.

So how is Multiple Authors coming along?

I have no doubt that it is very difficult to implement. But it will be implemented sooner or later, right? In the meantime, the databaseis only growing. I had no complaints against the old search system (besides author handling, of course). If anything, I liked the old search more than the new one. But when will we see the new author-record system?

But when will we see the new author-record system?

Well, it's harder than Collections, so it will be more than two weeks. Call it three, which probably puts it sometime in 2014.

I have used the other people entries for secondary authors, ghostwriters (when the primary author is a pen name), illustrators, editors, etc. However, I note that a tab-delimited export does not contain any of this valuable data even though there is a column supposedly devoted to it.

The whole issue of pseudonyms and ghostwriters is important for my collections and I want to be able to record this in a way that I can search for books by a given ghost, etc.

James Keeline

19> pseudonyms are on the author CK page and are to be combined with the author

That's far too simple an interpretation of pseudonyms.

Yes, there are some cases where one author (Sam Clemens) used a pen name (Mark Twain) and no one else used it. That's fine for the author page. The rest of the world is messier.

In the example of Nancy Drew, the pen name (Carolyn Keene) was initially created by and owned by an entity called the Stratemeyer Syndicate. Since 1985 the series and pen name are owned by Simon & Schuster, a NY publisher.

However, the ghostwriters for each story vary. Hence, it must be identified for specific works and not at the author CK level.

As I mentioned before, there is the issue of the 1941 Moss-Covered Mansion (original text) being completely different from the 1971 book with the same title (revised text) but LT is not able to distinguish between these.

What I am presently doing is giving a custom label to the primary author field and calling it "pseud." I add another person entry with a custom label of "ghostwriter" (or did I use the predefined "author"?). In any event, within LT when I see my detailed record for the book I can see these entries but nowhere else since it is not exported in the tab-delimited version.

James Keeline

19> The column in the export is still seeing the old Other Authors field, which was just a text field. Yes, I would love if export could see both...or better yet, actually get the data from the old field into the new one so the old one could go away entirely (and export could then see the only OA field left). It's been several years since the switch - look at the first three books you entered (in 2007) and you'll see the old field. I have several hundred with the old field, many of which have data...I'd love to get it into the new field, but don't want them to switch without retaining that data.

(I'm not following you! Really! You're just commenting (interestingly, so I want to answer) on a lot of threads I follow...)

Follow if you wish. I'm not paranoid. :)

I'd like to see the export be as complete as reasonably possible at the book level. I recognize that many CK fields probably won't make the cut. The "series" column of the export doesn't seem to reflect the current CK:series data either though I have not examined this closely.

However, this thread is about the multiple authors issue. I agree that old data should be retained somehow, even if it is a batch process to add the info to a new "author" entry in the new system.

It's a minor issue among the grand scheme of things perhaps.

James Keeline

I believe there always was a Series column in the export even before CK existed. It's like Tim had added it in anticipation of a Series column in the Book table but never did it. And when he created CK Series he probably forgot that the Series column was even there in the export format.

I don't think any of the CK fields export currently because they all, or nearly all, allow multiple values and the current export code can't handle that. Or maybe it's because the export code has never been updated to fetch data that is outside your library.

Yes and yes (multiple and not in your library). If Tim manages to make the XML export he's been talking about, maybe multiple-data fields can show up. For myself, I copy the CK:Series data (the useful one - whichever series I prefer) into Comments, then move it over in the export (semi-manual manipulation in Calc or Excel (macro)).

A more complete export would be great, just in general, though.

er...
I spoke too soon.
Looks like something beautiful is being done.

What?

Multiple Authors is probably the single thing that bugs me the most about LibraryThing. Not being able to handle co-authors and have a work show up on both author pages! Also makes pseudonym/ghostwriter issues harder to handle when there are multiple ghostwriters for the same pseudonym.

2nd most desired item is the Contained in/Contains issue for short stories, anthologies, etc.

-Kim K

28> Both issues are being worked on but aren't ready for prime time yet.

I'm going out for beer and other party supplies. Best be ready for the announcement.

Can you get those little cup-shaped chips that hold more dip? I love those things.

I see that some books (eg. Daughter of the Empire) now shows two authors on the book page (albeit only one comes up for the touchstone), but I can't figure out to add a 2nd author to works that currently only show one coauthor.

Whoopee! Thanks for pointing that out. I did not see that anywhere, yet. How long until multiple authors is implemented system-wide as a documented, official function?

Sometime between now and the heat death of the universe.

AKA "two weeks."

So in the three seasons since post 18 by lorax, about one week has passed. Is development still on schedule for 2014?

Yes.

For some value of "2014."

Someone is playing with the feature. Larry Niven collaborated with several authors. A couple of those titles now have shared credit, though there are "errors on the page."

I've been checking back regularly to discover whether progress is being made. I think we're getting close - enough to polish the dancin' shoes.

We've been told not to party in the main thread, so I'm setting up shop here.

YAY!!!!!!
Set up the keg over in this corner. I'll get the munchie foods - yes, I've had a bag of scoop chips stashed away for you, Carnophile. And I brought my own onion dip - try some.

I've already edited one of my favorite illustrators who hadn't been getting credit for some of his childrens books.

Off to play!

>38 2wonderY:
Whoo-hoo! I'll bring the Guiness!

Everyone must be busy in the stacks adding authors. Grabbing a snack and heading back.

ONG you guys this is such good news! Just two months have passed and it's 2014, the feature is here!
Now I can put my money where my mouth is.

41 - Only a good idea if you can get those chocolate coins, copper is hard on the teeth!

42 — I just had some sliced carrots and plantain chips.

Just scoot the rest of the dishes over a little and add your stuff whereever. I'll clean up in here in a little bit.

Mmmm, good plantain chips.