Bookmooching rants: August ?

I can't find the old thread, but I have a rant I must get off my chest. I had a guy on the 23rd request a book. I responded with 'in a week'. I had it shipped to go out today, and he nudged me yesterday with a reminder. I acknowledged it, but today he had my account put on vacation for not responding. ???

I'll get over it, obviously, I misjudged the time to get to the Post Office because it was over 13 ounces, but really, it was only 5 business days? It's not like I didn't respond at all. Anyways, okay...my bad.

But I look at history and he has 53 cancelled requests (not a patient guy I take it)...doesn't that seem excessive? I see he's low on points, so maybe he is trying to free some up by doing this, but it's incredibly annoying.

Am I wrong to be annoyed?

From where I stand, you are very, very right to be annoyed. Nine days is not cause for being cranky about the shipping; one must consider that there are weekends and all. Plus, vacationing you is unacceptable, because hello, accepting the mooch is a response! It's definitely a pattern of behavior. He has several "did not respond" comments left after less than a week. I particularly like "Accepted trade, then never mailed, even after two reminders." Eleven days from request to cancellation. What planet is he living on?

The old thread was really far down because we hadn't been overly annoyed in a few days. :)

I had similar transaction with another member. I left feedback on the transaction explaining how the vacationing action irritated me and wasn't an actuate reaction to our transaction, and the member was so irate at being corrected that he sent me several emails in all-caps and changed his feedback to negative, and I notified Abuse over it. It was my worst BM transaction to date.

At least the vacationing notice goes away automatically and without penalty the first time you log back in to your account.

I get a little annoyed if anyone sends me a reminder less than ~a week after requesting... especially if it's less than 5 days.

Oh I also get annoyed when people send reminders to ask if I have received a book less than a week after they sent it. I got one of those recently, and it was like only 3 days after she sent the book. I replied via email and said (nicely) that it would be nearly impossible for me to receive the book that quickly, but that I would make sure to mark it received when I got it. She wrote back and apologized, said she must have hit remind on the wrong book!

The only time I cancel after 7 days and vacation a user is if they are already showing up as "possibly inactive", and they haven't logged on since my request. That's okay, right?

Yikes, I sure wouldn't fare very well if a moocher who lacked patience mooched from me. Sometimes it takes me very nearly forever to send stuff out, although I do always respond to emails and reminders. It's not that I don't remember, I just can't yet!

I'm also a patient moocher though. I've only cancelled requests when the moochee hasn't responded to several reminders. I can only recall that happening once off-hand.

I think the only time I've *ever* cancelled before, like, two weeks, is when the person has a suspect history to begin with, and I decided to take the chance, but then no response. Usually I'm okay with leaving books pending for a long time, simply because I waaaaant them.

Yeah, I don't fare too well with impatient moochers. I think I've only had two bad experiences with people balking at my delays, though. Most people have been very understanding.

I sometimes get a little annoyed when someone JUST listed a book, and then they're like, "Oh I can't ship it for two months."

If you know you can't ship within a week or two, wait to list it! But if I mooch something that's been on someone's shelf for awhile, I don't mind delays as long as they communicate.

I usually give MIA senders at least a month to respond, sometimes longer if I really want it and no one else has it.

I've taken quite a few chances on people who do not respond, or respond and then don't send or communicate. I think that's why even though I have a pile of books to post, I won't put them on BM until I can send them. They are all wishlisted books which will go quickly, but I don't like making people wait too long. Two weeks is my maximum, and everything is quite clearly stated in my status message, including whose books are being sent when. I haven't had any complaints so far, nor people sending reminders before it is really necessary. Although, if someone did, I would be tempted to be a bit less diplomatic than usual in my reply...

I primarily cancel on people who don't accept for a month. I only vacation the people who haven't logged in recently or have_ bad_ history/mooch ratio.

The thing with me is, if I don't have a "box" or "catagory" for my books, they need to get out of the house. That's just my feeling personally. If a book is in my BM inventory, I have no problem letting it sit for months and months until it gets mooched, but if it's not in a "catagory" I get antsy always seeing it around. That's why I add books when I may not be able to ship right away.

11: Yes, but you mark your mooches as delayed. :)

-8,11

Also, I will occasionally list books I have given to me when I am travelling. If someone mooches just that book, fine. If someone mooches various books including some at home, then it will be deferred until I am home again. Why list it first? Because I might be able to send it/them while I am gone, making room for yet more books in my luggage :P

There have been a few times in the past few months, when for a variety of reasons, I haven't been able to mail something out & I consider it late.... I got snowed in for a week & the book was late already... the book went 'MIA' but I knew was here.... I forgot to mail it on the last trip to the post office....

So, I smooched the point back to them!! It's cost me maybe 5 points in that time?? but the "feel good" &/or the apology implied makes me feel better about sending a book late. Yes, I should have sent it on time, but it went later than what I told them it would. Life happens.

But I'm also really glad that I got some books out this book sanctuary!! I swear, I think they multiply when I'm not looking!!!

14: That's why I don't put my erotica books too close together. Multiplying books.... eep. :P

Lmao! Is that where those baby cardboard books come from? :P

@16 Hahahaha. That is awesome.

GRRRRRR My Rant is about MYSELF!
I had a book request and cannot find the book to save my life I just can't figure out where it went its going to drive me crazy!
I rejected the mooch and smooched the person a point for their trouble.

That would drive me nuts. The last couple of times a book was playing hide-and-go-seek with me it was either underneath the cloth bag of books, or behind it?

Since I only joined BookMooch two weeks ago - and added quite some books to my inventory - I have been sending out a whole bunch of books last week. And yesterday when I was packaging yet another batch, there was one book I couldn't find anymore, although I put all my BM books (and no others) in one cabinet in the livingroom.

I was already imagining that I had sent out the wrong one the previous day - was looking if I found a book that was already marked 'sent' on my list, was thinking about ordering the book at Amazon, since I didn't want to give a bad impression in my first BM-weeks, when I eventually found the book, in the cabinet, behind a stack of other books.

I think I know how you feel...

I think I belong to the impatient club! It annoys me when I have the few points I have wrapped up in a mooch request that the member is in no hurry to accept. If they were any further down my Wishlist, I wouldn't still be waiting but they're books I really really want!!

Argh, this is a pathetic rant compared to some people's but I don't like the lack of response. I can accept a reply saying they won't be sending for a while but being ignored completely irritates me.

EDIT - Just decided to go through my Pending list, I requested a magazine a month ago from someone. It's not like they haven't logged in, they were online an hour ago! I can understand postage might need to be checked but some communication would help!

ANOTHER EDIT - After reminding thhe other moochee about this, they've accepted and marked it as sent. They've redeemed themselves :)

This isn't a rant about BM but rather about PBS. I have only requested about 10 books from them in total but the last 5 books have been horrible. First I got a jacked up paperback when it was supposed to be a hardback, then I got the wrong book completely, next came a book that looked like it had been eaten by a dog and THEN run over by a car, after that I got ANOTHER mass market paperback when it was supposed to be a hardback and then lastly, I got a hb book I had been looking for forever and it reeks so badly of smoke that I cannot even be in the same room as it, much less touch it without getting the beginnings of a terrible headache (I plan on trying the coffee trick next time I go to the grocery and pick some up).

Anyway, I have gotten 600+ books from BM thus far and have had very few crappy books come my way (unless I knew about what they looked like beforehand and mooched them anyway). I am seriously considering cutting my losses and giving up on PBS completely.

OK >

This isn't a rant about BM but rather about PBS. I have only requested about 10 books from them in total but the last 5 books have been horrible. First I got a jacked up paperback when it was supposed to be a hardback, then I got the wrong book completely, next came a book that looked like it had been eaten by a dog and THEN run over by a car, after that I got ANOTHER mass market paperback when it was supposed to be a hardback and then lastly, I got a hb book I had been looking for forever and it reeks so badly of smoke that I cannot even be in the same room as it, much less touch it without getting the beginnings of a terrible headache (I plan on trying the coffee trick next time I go to the grocery and pick some up).

Anyway, I have gotten 600+ books from BM thus far and have had very few crappy books come my way (unless I knew about what they looked like beforehand and mooched them anyway). I am seriously considering cutting my losses and giving up on PBS completely.

OK **end Rant**

22. Ugh, the smoky book sounds awful. I'm not sure if the coffee grounds would work with a really smoky book, but it would probably take quite a few tries. The two books I had success with the coffee grounds did not smell overly strong, it was just obvious when I opened the book and smelt the pages. I did have success with them though (and have now finished reading the one I mentioned recently, it was good but the book was not a keeper and is going to the charity shop since it is too heavy for BM). I've received two other books (both paperbacks) that smelt more smoky than those, and the one I tried with the coffee grounds did not improve, and I ended up sending it to the charity shop when I decided the story didn't sound as interesting as I thought (it was a horror novel and I'm not really into those). The other book I haven't tried with the coffee grounds yet and is one I do want to read eventually, but it's in storage for now.

I'd rather just buy a secondhand copy of a book if the smell were that bad and you really wanted it. Or you could mention which it was, someone here might have it to list on BookMooch?

I am sad to hear that there might not be any hope for my super smokey book! :(

I had been looking for this book for several years it is The Oxford Book of Fantasy Stories by Tom Shippey. It is actually a pristine, perfect hardback copy (except for the obvious STENCH emanating from it).

Okay, this is a combination rant/request.

EVERY SINGLE TIME I get a book packaged in those Jiffy Padded Mailers, the ones with the fuzzy crap as padding, no matter HOW CAREFUL I am, the book ends up covered in fuzz, and usually so do I. I don't fault the sender, but it's soooo frustrating. And in the past I've talked to other BMers who express the same feelings.

Which is why I'm asking if there are any BM-Wiki people here who would be willing to add a little note in the Shipping section about these mailers, just warning people of the mess they can cause. (Honestly, I took one look at the how-to's of Wiki editing and ran. It intimidates me.) Anyone? Please? Seems like I'm getting more and more of these mailers lately.

26> I had one of those today....it 'SPLODED all over me and of course, I was wearing black pants!

25. Well, I haven't tried it with a super-smoky book, for long enough that is, so it may be worth a try, then you can let us know how it goes. It may take quite a few turns under the plastic bag with repeated saucers of coffee grounds by it (left until they go hard, then replace with fresh)... it may work, but I can only confirm it works on books that aren't overly unbearable to be in the same room with.

26. I've received those before and don't like using them for posting books (for the reason stated, but also because they are heavier and thicker than bubblewrap-lined parcels).

27: I had the same problem on Friday... at work... right before an important meeting with my new bosses. I was NOT impressed!

>22 Belladonna1975:

You can put a note in requester conditions re: the smoking. But yeah, I too have had a lot better luck on Bookmooch when it comes to condition, and I've traded about 100 books on PBS. I had one book arrive looking very nice except that it was so moldy my nose started running and my eyes started leaking just by holding it. At first I couldn't figure out what the problem was because it didn't LOOK outright moldy, but then I sniffed it and whoooa my immune system did not like that and punished me for it the rest of the day.

After a couple moldy books and a weirdly eaten one I put up this really obnoxious sounding set of requester conditions that included a line more or less like, "No books that have been exposed to mold or smoke or have been gnawed on by any number of pests including but not limited to mice, silverfish, bookworms..." and proceded to delineated the list further.

I've rewritten it since to be much more polite, but I was really annoyed at the time.

26.> I hate those Jiffy padded mailers, won't use them and also encourage others not to use them. I've never been able to open that type of mailer without tearing it in the wrong place, and scattering that fuzzy crap all over me and my apartment. I recycle mailing materials of most kinds, but not those. There are other, better ways to ship books.

As for Wiki editing, I'm afraid I'm unable to help; my eyes just glaze over. I'm not really intimdated as much as just not able to comprehend the language. If it could be done in straight HTML, I wouldn't have a problem, but Wiki is just too different.

#25- if coffee grounds don't work- try putting the book in a sealable plastic bag with baking soda- that has worked for me- you have to leave the book for a few weeks- and some times the baking soda leaves a fine layer of white dust. ( that is why I am keen to try the coffee grounds-no dust).

Not so much a rant, but kinda funny story...

I have 6 packages to mail out on Friday. Since I had time this afternoon to get them ready to mail out, I did.

First, I ran out of clear packing tape. No problem, I have a back-up roll of the brown stuff and some scotch tape to put over the addresses.

Then, my plastic wrap ran out.

Then, my back-up roll of tape ran out. On my last package. I now have 5 packages ready to mail out and one partially wrapped package.

What ticks me off the most is that I knew I was running low on tape. But I didn't get any. And I am a professional moocher. I have supplies on hand at all times. I do not run low. But I did. *hangs head in shame* lol

Off to the office supply store now I guess...

LOL Mare, Happens to the best of us!

>23 Belladonna1975:

I hope you RWAP'd all those crappy books (except the smoky one)!!!

I hate smoky books too, but I haven't been motivated enough yet to make an RC for them on PBS. I have had good luck using baking soda to de-stink them.

One time I received a box of books from eBay... totally not as described, and the clincher was they left a CIGARETTE BUTT in the bottom of the box!!!! SO GROSS

I doused all of the books in baking soda and let them sit for a week. It was a little messy, but effective.

What I like about PBS is you can get your credit back if the other person screws up. If they send you a paperback instead of hardback, point back. Wrong book = point back. Tears to cover and excessive damage to book = point back.

It doesn't bother me that much that you can't do that on bookmooch, only because the points are so easy for me to get, but SwapTree is super sketchy because if something goes wrong you are SOL.

Here's a suggestion for the smoky-smelly book : put some baking soda in a garbage bag and seal the book in it for a day or two. We've done that successfully in our library with books that are returned not smelling so good. It may work for you.

lauri804 out of curiosity, does it work without the baking soda touching the book? Or does it leave residue as the others have experienced?

I'm not lauri804, but... I've used the baking-soda trick a few times, but I put about two inches of baking soda in a tupperware container and set the book on top of the baking soda, then put the lid on. Leave for two weeks or so, and no more smell at all. I've never had any problem with residue.

Mare, I had that happen with tape not too long ago... I had this crappy, cheap tape that didn't really work worth crap, and when I ran out of that I had to use brown, black, and yellow tape on the last package (that's three different kinds of tape, not a multi-colored tape). I stocked up on *good* tape the next time I left the house. lol

Interesting Heather19, so did you put the book directly on the baking soda? And it didn't leave residue on the cover?? (It's always good to find out about techniques that work, may be cheaper than coffee grounds! Though I'll stick with the grounds until they run out, when I next try it.)

I've had success with placing the book on a shallow dish in a tupperware container that had a full box of baking soda in it. One particular book was really smoky and gross. It took about four days sealed in the container and it was stench-free.

Oh, good, because I don't like the idea of placing a book directly onto powdery baking soda. That sounds like a good technique to use it in a sealed container (hmm, I didn't try coffee grounds on a saucer in a sealed container, only under a plastic bag... maybe a sealed container would work better! That's an idea to try too, but again the book should not touch the coffee grounds.)

Baking soda is a poor odor absorber. I've had luck with activated charcoal bought from aquarium supply stores.

43> I have been trying the coffee. It doesn't seem to have done anything yet (its only been 2 days though). I think I might try the activated charcoal.

Just had a run-in with the moocher who seems to have hit others for being ungrateful for books in terrible condition. My first really awful mooch. I gather we're not allowed to give other moochers' IDs here, but if anyone is interested, the book was "Black Dog of Fate: An American Son Uncovers His Armenian Past".

I gave her "O" feedback because, after all, I did get the book, although the covers were bent, many pages had folds, and there were labels on back cover and inside front cover. Her reply was: "The book was FREE. What an ungrateful person. So sad." So I changed the feedback to -1 and left this comment: "Book in terrible condition, not mentioned in description, not worth relisting. Sender gave me grief for giving her a "O" feedback, says I'm ungrateful for a free book, so here's what the feedback should have been." Have also reported her for abuse. I'm going to toss the book and try to find another copy.

I'm just going to calmly say "i'm sorry that happened, auntmarge", instead of going into yet another rant about people using the "free book" excuse. (huuuuuge pet peeve of mine, but I'm already upset enough today, don't need to rant and get mad again)

In case anyone wonders (off-topic) (the reason I'm so upset today is because this is the second time in two months that I have been without my meds because of the damn doctor's screw-ups. I am really really bad with confrontations, so calling to complain about this ended in a panic attack. I've finally decided to switch to a different Behavioral Health place because of this.)

Two days is too soon (did you read the instructions above?). I put it under the plastic bag next to the coffee grounds on the saucer and left it there for a week or so, then replaced with fresh grounds and did this several times. Then eventually removed coffee grounds and left it on the shelf for a few months. Though it probably wouldn't take that long for the smoke smell to go away.

I recently read that an open dish of vinegar left in a room for a few days helps get rid of smoky smells... perhaps that would help with smoky books? You would have to be sure not to get it *on* the book.

47> Yes I read the instructions. I did say that 2 days was too soon to tell.

Last saturday, someone asked me if I was willing to send her three books, and immediately, before I answered, already mooched one of them.
No problem, since she asked for three books, I accepted to send them.

The member has logged in since then, but hasn't mooched the other books....
To make matters worse, I already prepared the parcel and put it on the pile with some others, ready to take to the post-office today.
And as you guess... it was only after coming back from the post-office, and starting to mark the books I shipped as 'sent', that I realized that I already sent that parcel. So I paid 20 Euro ($ 26) for sending three books, and have got only three points... (and I have only very limited ability to do 'national' mooches, as Belgium is a tiny little country, with only a few bookmoochers...)

I mailed already to ask the lady to mooch the other two books, and hope she is willing to do that...

auntmarge, I ran into that too not so long ago--the lovely attitude that no one is allowed to be anything but delighted by the books a member sends out. What's sad is the inability to accept criticism and move forward. I hope you poured yourself a glass of wine/iced coffee/herbal tea, curled up with a book obtained by a nicer BookMoocher and enjoyed your evening anyway.

Heather19, drug mess ups are designed to drive you round the bend. I once had a brilliant health insurance that allowed me to get my meds in 30 day increments. Birth control pills come in 28 day packs. The insurance expected me to go without until the 30 days were up, because no exceptions!

AnneTanne, let us know how it works out.

Hi RidgewayGirl,

Thanks for the calming words. I was heading to bed so threw the book out and went off to read something else. She's now on my list of "do not mooch from", but that won't stop some other unlucky soul from having to deal with her.

>52 auntmarge64:: Your clear and honest feedback will help those other unlucky souls potentially avoid the member.

I haven't marked this book as received as I'd like advice first:

Got four books in the mail from one moocher, three were fine but the fourth is a library book. Not a discarded library book, but one that was checked out of a school library and never returned. I called the library and the librarian checked and, lo, it had been marked as "lost; checked out and never returned". I'm clearly sending the book back to the library, but what do I put for feedback? I may try emailing her first to see what the deal is.

#54 Woah! It would be interesting to hear what she has to say but I think I'd click abuse unless she has a really good explanation. You can't list books you don't own!

ETA: Actually my husband has just pointed out that it may not have been the moochee who stole it from the library. I guess they may just not have noticed (or decided not to notice)

>54 RidgewayGirl: & 55 : I'm not sure I'd have noticed! I often receive exlibrary books and I don't think I've ever scrutinized them to make sure they were all appropriately stamped as discards. hmm.

I got a book for a friend & she noticed that it was marked as a library book... so I emailed the library & got a very nice reply stating that it had been removed from the collection, but that they don't mark books removed anymore... just a mark through the barcode.

If a book isn't marked removed, it would be nice to check.

#54: is the former owner of the book in the same town as the school library? and I think that she should have checked to see if it was ex-library or not.

and there's "lost & paid for" and "lost & not paid for"

She's in the same state. I've emailed and will give her a day to respond. She didn't mention that it was a library copy in her condition notes, and I can't use it in any case because of that (it's for a book giveaway program -- http://booksforkeeps.blogspot.com/ ). It's entirely covered with stickers and stamps, both inside and out.

Reminds me of when we cleaned out my Grandmothers basement... we found a library book my uncle had taken out when he was there... that was now 40 years overdue :P

>59 Bcteagirl:: That reminds me of an article I read in a newspaper once...
Someone found a library book in the legacy of (I think) an aunt, and returned it to the library after decades... and was expected to pay the fine for that delay...

>51 RidgewayGirl:: Ridgewaygirl,
Since this afternoon, the person has mooched the second book and send me an email too, to ask if all the request have come through now. It seems that it has been merely the fault of the BM-mailing system, than her not taking action. So I shouldn't have ranted but just have waited I guess...

@56 MyriadBooks, I don't think I would notice, either! I guess I'll be more on the lookout now. :-/

@60 Glad it all worked out, Anne!

Dear new moocher, when you put "ask me first" for international mooches, people *will* ask you. When they ask you, it would be polite to respond, even if the answer is no. That is all.

>62 bostonbibliophile:. This. Agree completely.

I hesitate to rant about this here, but since I've actually had this happen multiple times in the past....

Dear user, if you have delayed MY mooch for over two months and haven't responded to my reminders/emails, WHY ARE YOU MOOCHING FROM ME???

Arrrrggggh! I mean, of course I know it's not a valid reason to reject, and I wouldn't, but if they are online to MOOCH from me, why can't they respond to MY mooch?

>62 bostonbibliophile:: completely understand this rant...
Some ten days ago, a book on my wishlist suddenly appeared on two inventories, that both were "ask first"... so I did ask one moocher, who happened to live in a country close to mine.
By accident, not remembering I had asked for that book already, a few days later I asked the other moocher.
But now we're a week past my second question, and got no reply from both...

But... Yesterday I thought that a moocher who had 'asked for' three books of mine to send overseas had afterwards only mooched one of them, but it turned out that she did mooch, but I hadn't got that mail...

So maybe those international moocher who asked to ask them first aren't ignoring our messages, but simply haven't got them, or we haven't got their (possitive?) reply and they are waiting for us to mooch the books now.

>65 AnneTanne:

AnneTanne -- that happens often enough that I've made up sort of a "form letter" that I send to people from whom I've had no reply. It goes something like this:

"Hi __________:

A couple of days ago, I sent an automated Bookmooch request to see if you would be willing to send "__________" by __________ to my country (Canada).

I would really appreciate it if you would open that message and either accept or reject the request. All you need to do is click on the appropriate button.

If you accept, I can go ahead and mooch the book.

If you reject, I'll understand; there are people who don't want to send outside their country. But by rejecting, you will do two things. You will clear the reservation out of my name, so that someone else can mooch the book, and you will allow me to find a "Bookmooch Angel" to mooch the book for me. (A Bookmooch Angel is someone who will mooch a book from someone in their own country (who doesn't want to send outside of the country), and then act as a go-between to send it to someone who wants it outside of the original country).

So if you would please let me know, one way or the other, I would appreciate it.

Thanks in advance,

- __________"

This doesn't always work, but it gets a response often enough for me to keep doing it.

If the problem is a spam filter catching the automated requests, sometimes sending a message from the email button on the page helps.

Hoping to get some opinions from the group...

On July 31 I offered to act as an Angel for a member in the forums. I put a request on the book and have yet had it responded to, even though the owner of the book was signed into BM as recently as five days ago. Here is my problem:

Today I went through the member's pending books to be sent list. They have 13 books either accepted to send or delayed (not including the one I requested). One was accepted to send on December 22, 2009 and hasn't been dealt with yet! Three other books requested in the first three months of 2010 are still marked as delayed to send. The member has mooched over 40 books but has only sent out nine since joining.

Should I give this member a chance and send them an e-mail asking if they ever intend to mail out my requested book? Should I report them for abuse?

Any suggestions would be appreciated :)

@67: I say report them to the admins. You don't have to be completely sure that they're abusing BookMooch to do that, it's enough if something looks suspicious.

Maybe the title of the book you're mooching should have been a warning ;-)

I'm starting to get a little concerned about a book I've mooched.

I put in a request on 20th June for a very popular book and was so pleased I managed to mooch it. I'm happy to let mooch requests sit for a while as I have plenty of points to play with (and my mother has put an embargo on any more books coming into the house, so I can't do anything with them right now anyway). Eventually the user accepted the mooch and after three weeks it was marked as sent on 30th July. It's now been another three weeks and still no book. Even sending second class within the UK it's highly unlikely to take that long.

Now it seems the user has been marked as on vacation and has no more books in their inventory. All I want is my book as I really really want to read that one.

> 69 Actually from July 30th until Aug 12th is only 2 weeks. Not sure if that makes any difference.

Oh yes, I can't count. That's not so bad then, but nonetheless it's still a bit worrying.

I can only find a book mooched June 30 and sent July 20 - I suppose you mixed them up? That would make the waiting time so far just over 3 weeks.

Anyway, it doesn't look alarming to me at all. Someone wanted to mooch a book off them, they didn't reply within a week and the moocher cancelled for lack of response. That automatically puts the user on vacation and makes their inventory invisible. But the only thing it means is that they don't always respond within a week, and you already knew that.

Ygraine, is it the Carlos Ruiz Zafon book? I'm in exactly the same situation with the same user, I'm angel-mooching something for a BM member in the US and it was apparently sent on 20th July. I've yet to see it... I've got a funny feeling this is just going to go wrong.

pokarekareana, yes it is. I'll give it till the end of the month before I start to worry properly though. Hopefully we'll both be wrong and our books will arrive.

#73 & 74 Looking at her profile it would appear that she marked quite a few books as sent on July 20th, some overseas, some to the UK. I agree it's very unusual for UK mail to take longer than a week (even second class). Maybe she meant to post a batch of books on the 20th but couldn't make it to the PO for some reason?

You could send her an email saying you haven't received your book yet and just wanted to check whether she'd sent it?

Hmmm, it could all be for valid reasons but it makes you wonder...

I requested a book from a user in mid-June. It was marked sent at at the start of July. It hadn't come in, and I was getting a bit worried, as media mail usually doesn't take over a month in the USA. The book came today... and it was shipped on the 11th of August. The book is in good condition, and I had a brief but nice interaction with the user when I mooched it, but I am *really* frustrated. I would rather someone delay my mooch than mark it as "sent" and leave me to wonder if it's been lost somewhere. I hesitate to leave negative or neutral feedback, (her feedback is perfect so far), but I'm not sure what to do. Should I leave positive feedback but leave a comment about the shipping? Is that really catty? Should I just leave a +1 with no additional feedback? Gah... I don't know what to do...

email her... it may have been returned by the post office or not mailed by someone she thought had mailed it.

find out the reason first... just to be nice.

@77 You're right, skittles. I've emailed her, so we will see what happens!

If she doesn't respond, or says something like "who cares", please leave mention of the six week delay between marking it sent and actually mailing the book. If I were mooching, I would very much want to know that there might be an undisclosed delay, and that might nudge her to be more careful.

Arrrggghh!
A book I was really looking forward to recieving, that had been on my wishlist, hit multiple snags during the transaction. There was a month between mooch and sent date, with no communication whatsoever from the owner. But it was finally sent, and I breathed a sigh of relief.

I get the package today, and it's the WRONG BOOK. *whines* It's another in the same series that I don't have, so it's not that it's a book I hate or don't want, but it's not the book I mooched. And I don't think it's an address-mix-up, because the book I recieved still shows in that person's inventory, so I don't think anyone mooched it and the packages were mixed up or whatever.

And I'm moving tomorrow morning and may not have internet over the weekend (probably will, but maybe not), so I'll be flailing quietly until then. *sigh* I've emailed them to ask about it, of course.

@79 & 77

Well, I haven't heard back yet, but it hasn't even been a day, so I shouldn't be impatient. Haha. It just irks me because it *seems*, (based on her feedback), that perhaps she did the same thing to a few other people. Again, I'm just going off of dates and the fact that media mail doesn't typically take 6+ weeks...

What do you all think about this mooch & moocher?look at my pending for the book Olive Kitteredge and go to her pending page do you really think she had 2 copies of this book?I mooched it back in June and supposedly sent June 19th even Media Mail it should be here by now. Then she has another pending for the same book in August and says it was sent out aug 13th. her account is on vacation but she was on 21 hours ago, What should I do???

EDT: I sent this message...
This book has not arrived then I see in your inventory that someone else mooched the same book a few days ago.Do you have 2 copies? Was this sent?
Thank-You,
Susie

*Update on Msg #82* This is the email I got back so I will wait and see.

I'm not sure what happened, frankly! But I do have another copy of this
book and will mail it out to you Monday. Sorry for the confusion.

Yeah, but at least you had the courtesy to smooch them, Susie.

I had a really bad experience today. I was going through my history and noticed a really weird feedback reply that I had inadvertently made to a rejection (must have come up on the drop down list from a previous mooch saying "Thanks for the quick response and 1st class even!). I went in to correct it because she said " I am sorry, I cannot find this book, both copies must have been requested and sent." I changed my response to reflect that not having a book is a TOS violation. disappointed with a -1 (probably could have used unacceptable vs violation in my response) and I get a nasty email from her yelling at me in caps.

So I went to her bio page and see that she had rejected 151 mooches for the same and a myriad of other excuses. I emailed her back:

"I am really sorry your reaction was so negative. I was looking through my feedback and noticed that the response was inadvertently from another mooch. I corrected the feedback response and now you are yelling at me? Not cool. For someone who has been on Bookmooch for as long as you have you know that is not an acceptable reason for not sending a book. Perhaps you have too many books in your inventory to manage? At any rate, I stated the facts and my feelings on the matter. I will be posting this to the feedback in response to your email."

ETA: I have been requested to remove her emails...

Her account in presently on vacation, but was I wrong? I just want to spit! I am not a pedant. I was trying to be honest and reflect my experience.

Sorry, very long rant after 4 hours of crap.

Yes I have also found that people don't like advice on how to make this a better experience.

just because she is on PBS & BM does not give her an excuse for rejecting a book. No excuse at all.

I'm on both sites & I am very careful how I post my books. Usually only one at a time for books that only have a few copies.

If I were to reply to her, I would have told her that posting books on both sites is NOT an appropriate excuse for rejecting a mooch... and she should know that! and probably does!! but prefers to ignore BM rules.

I had one gal reject a mooch (I think I asked at that time if it was appropriate to list on more than one site) but for crying out loud!! 151 rejections?! Give me a break. Too many irons in her fire as far as I am concerned. Thanks for listening. I am going to go nurse my headache. :-/ Anyone like a glass of Merlot?

ETA: This is what she added to her profile after it all started... " I am a member of BM and paperbackswap, it can get a little crazy, I am sorry if you request a book and it has been traded on PBS. I try to keep up with both sites but I occasionally miss removing a book. I am sorry, with 30+ animals to care for at any given time I can be remiss in my duties. I just received bad feedback because a book that was requested was traded on PBS. PLEASE DO NOT MOOCH FROM ME
IF YOU EXPECT TO LEAVE BAD FEEDBACK IF THE BOOK IS NOT AVAILABLE."

Okay, now I am done with this and am going for the Merlot.

me, please... I'm out of merlot right now & I need it!!

Pouring a glass for Skittles!!!

Yeah, their rejection quota is a little high to say the least and if they're too busy to keep track, they'd be wise to only list on one site at a time. I suspect that someone reported them to abuse and that's why they're on vacation. So it's not you.

I'll join you in a glass of red and I'll bring a box of good French truffles.

Mmmm. It's a day for red wine. I'm sipping a Shiraz right now, but I'm sadly lacking any truffles.

(Baking day is tomorrow. Chocolate Chip cookies shall be made. Mmmmmm. Chocolate.)

Thanks TC,

Public posting of private e-mails has caused legal threats to Bookmooch in the past...

As I've posted before, if you notice a pattern of rejections for any reason others than high cost of international postage, then please click 'abuse.'

And the same for any unfriendly/abusive e-mails... So this case was a double-whammy :)

No, RidgewayGirl... it was me. I was just told that it was being looked into and asked to remove the emails. :-(

I am preparing dinner and drinking my Merlot. Thanks, Mark for your help and my bad for posting them.

Did someone say Truffles? ;-)

Was someone offering me some wine? Actually, I have a fantastic bottle of wine from Australia cooling now...

We have Red going around right now... Merlot? Shiraz? mmm... Australian? sounds good.

Banrock Station White Shiraz. We found this one by accident but love it!

OMG! I just checked my email and the sweetest thing just happened! I have been soundly smooched! Thank you, Jenn! (in response to a smart aleck comment I made on the pimping thread, btw)

Just goes to show... there are more sweet apples than sour. ;-)

I am blessed... I am blessed... I am blessed to have good people in my virtual world!

Not really a rant, just more of an annoyance...I "asked first" for two books from a user in New Zealand, and both went unresponded to until the reservations lapsed. At that point, I went ahead and requested both books. Less than a day later (of course!), both books were rejected.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE LISTED AS "ASK FIRST," THEN MAYBE YOU SHOULD ANSWER YOUR INTERNATIONAL REQUESTS UGH.

Okay, maybe that turned into a rant after all.

Sorry you've had a bad experience MsCellophane. If you send me the links I'd be happy to Angel them for you, if that would help.

ETA: um, I see I already am … (head-desk) … pass the Merlot …

Someone rejecting 151 mooches is clearly an abuse of the system... but I will say that while I am a bookmooch angel, I am not always an angel about keeping my inventory up to date. I try, I really do, but it gets away from me sometimes, especially in the late spring/early summer when I am super busy.

I have sent 575 books and have a feedback score of +575. I would be a little irritated if someone gave me a score of -1 for a rejected mooch, though I would definitely not harass them by email!! I'd probably try to offer them a 2-for-1 deal or something to make them feel better.

If someone is abusing the system, they should be reported to the abuse team. But mistakes do happen, and if someone made an innocent mistake, it seems a little unfair to dock their feedback score for it. A score of +0 and comments about what you think ought to be sufficient. IMO anyway.

Not a rant about BookMooch, but about shipping...
Two weeks ago, I went to the post-office to ship a huge pile of books.
Three of those parcels were not-to-heavy books to send outside Europe, and the man on the counter told me, that for those three, I would have to pay the same for registered mail as for regular mail.
Of course, I opted for what I considered the safest option, i.e. registered mail.

This week I was wondering if there was even one book of that pile marked as received, and so I took a look on the 'track and trace' site of the Dutch post.

I had 4 registered parcels, one from another date. That last one was found on the site, it was 'somewhere between the Netherlands and it's destination in the US', no more information. OK, fine...
But the three others all were 'not found'... so I fear that not only those three are lost somewhere, but probably also the other parcels (one large for the states, and a couple of books to send within Europe).

You know... that was the second batch of books I sent out as a BookMooch-member... That won't give me a good feed-back score, as nobody is going to believe that so many parcels get lost...

(I can't go to the post-office where I sent them, as that is closed for two weeks... Pfew, I'm definitely not amused...)

101. > I would definitely not be amused either, however, there is this: Fingers crossed, perhaps your packages are not lost, just delayed. I don't know how well they enter tracking information elsewhere, but, especially here in the states, the postal service isn't that great at entering the tracking information.

101: Ask wester about Dutch mail?

In fact, we Belgian often tend to think that everything in the Netherlands runs smoother than in our tiny little country, but indeed, this wasn't a nice experience (and to be honest, I think I hear more complaints from my colleagues about Dutch post, than in Belgian about ours...)

ARGH!

I had a wishlist item come up, and promptly requested the book. Then I get an email saying they just realized their niece would like the book and would I mind them cancelling the mooch? I said to do as they see fit, but maybe check their listings and remove any other titles they aren't sure on.

ARGH!!!!!

Oh no, how frustrating! Which book?

I requested two books from a Serious Newbie...on the 15th (when he first listed his books)

So far, I think he has 8 Requests...but hasn't Accepted any of them.. I sent him an email trying to explain that he should click the ACCEPT button for his Requests (or he'll be put On Vacation if he doesn't respond to Requests..in a timely manner)

haven't heard back from him

;-}

105. They should reject, not you cancel, as it isn't your fault.

I agree with 108.

I'm a relative newb (less than a month!) still figuring out some of the nuances of BM protocol. Suppose a book on my wishlist becomes available but the owner's account is set to "only to my country." If i send a polite message inquiring whether they might consider shipping to my country, is that bad form? I don't want to be intrusive. So far i've been successful in these requests twice but i've also had 4 or 5 non-responses so i wondered what those owners might be thinking.

Having just learned about angels today (thanks again highdesertlady), i guess in the future i could try to find someone to angel the book instead. Still, i wondered if this kind of request is generally considered a faux-pas.

>110 I-_-I: communcation is, as you seem to understand, very important. Some people send an e-mail to the person asking if they will reserve it for you until you can find an angel. AND because popular books go fast, at the same time they put in an angel request here on LT and on the BM forum "angel request" explaining that you have asked them to reserve it for you, that way they know to explain to the book owner that the mooch is for YOU. Others don't waste time asking, especially if the owner is "to my country only" and go directly to the forums to request an angel. Depending on the time of day you can get an angel in as short as 15 minutes and as long as a couple of hours.
Once you have used the network a few times, you'll know some angels you can also send a private e-mail to, to request they angel a book for you. We are not offended when you put your request in the forums AND e-mail us too. Time is of the essence for many of the books!!!!

Very useful info, particularly about requesting angels via forums. Thanks!

List of BookMooch angel network moochers in case you need it, but as said above, many use the forums on BookMooch or LibraryThing, or after a while have an arrangement with angel moocher(s).

edward the emu...a kid's book. She ended up saying she would send it after all, since I said I was disappointed. Sheesh. Why put it up if you don't want to get rid of it?

Followup on my message 101:
Yesterday I went to a postoffice (not were I posted the books, since that is closed for two weeks) to ask what could have happened to those three parcels...
"We don't have any responsability after the parcels have left this office, so you should contact TNT-post customerservice."

Which I did today...
And there I was told there probably is no problem at all, since the parcels were shipped to the USA, New Zealand and Israel, and those countries don't give tracking-information about shippings from abroad...

But than it's still strange, that I do get that information for a parcel that was send two days later, also to the States...

So Dragones1 (102) was right... just keep my fingers crossed...

115: Short answer: Tracking info for international mail is weird.

Longer answer: Tracking info for Mail in general is weird. ;)

In the past, I often have shipped things within Europe, and at that time, tracking info seemed rather reliable. But this is the first time my parcels went outside Europe, and I was panicking, since I thought that at least registered mail would be trackable. Learned a lot...

Today I finally gave up on two separate mooches that were marked sent in May. I'm sad; I was looking forward to those books. Ah well.

> 117:

Registered mail coming into the United States should get scanned when it arrives at the post office of delivery. You probably will not see it scanned before it get to the delivery office.

It should show:

Scanned as arrived at unit

Scanned out for delivery

You may see:

Attempted

Delivered

(at least if the employees are doing their job correctly!)

#119: Thanks for the peek under the USPS covers!

An aside, I've noticed that there tend to be two "sides" to the USPS -- the "intake" side (the counter staff who work with customers and accept incoming packages), and the "distribution" side (the people who sort, transport, and deliver the mail). As you might expect, as in any large operation, often one side doesn't know too much about the other. I recently asked a counter clerk if a 9-digit ZIP (vs a 5-digit ZIP) helped a Media Mail package get delivered any quicker, and his response was "I dunno, that's on the Distribution side".

If it helps any, I am a Utility Clerk, and I work both window and distribute mail in the back.

I've done everything from unload trucks to worked on OCR/DBCS machines, worked LSM, worked in registered mail operations (at SEA AMC, SEA P &DC, and at my current station). I've worked outgoing Foreign Mail, and worked as a Nixie Clerk I've also worked as a Transit Mail Expediter (that's the person who gets the trucks out on time).

The answer to your question is:

No.

(Because the +4 zip is geared to faster/more accurate sorting of DPS letter mail, not parcels)

This isn't a rant as much as it is a sad little excuse for a sigh.

An international moocher recently requested a book that I can't afford to ship and, as is my wont, I emailed her my apologies while saying I would be happy to reserve this book for an Angel to mooch it on her behalf. And, as is also my standard, asked her if she was familiar with Angeling process and offered to walk her through it if she wasn't.

She doesn't respond with a 'Yes, let's please do that' or 'No, thank you anyway' but a "That's fine not a problem at all" which I think means 'No, I'm not interested in Angeling this.'

I'm just the grouchy sort that prefers things as clear and direct as they can be. I hate guessing. Sigh.

@MyriadBooks

If you're unclear, you could always email her back and ask for the name of her angel! That way she can clarify whether or not she wants the book. To me, as well, it sounds like she doesn't, but one never knows...

This is a pretty small rant, but I'm tired of having mooches rejected because the person can't find the book or gave it away. The rejection notice says that isn't a good reason, but I think the general practice is not to give negative feedback. I understand if a person loses a book or two, but some moochers have rejected numerous requests for this reason (not all in a bunch where it's suspicious; just where it seems careless). How hard is it to keep books for mooching in one place? And to take them off your inventory if you give them away? I want to start giving negative feedback for people who seem to lose an unreasonable number of books compared to the total given away.

Careful, Carly... I did last Saturday... see messages starting at #84. It was a bad day. Hopefully, it won't happen to you if you do.

#125--thanks for the warning, and I know that's a risk. I probably won't do it. I guess what I don't quite understand is, why is the general practice just to let this go when the rejection notice very clearly says this isn't a permissible reason for rejection? It bothers me a bit that there isn't any community enforcement of this rule and that we all have to be afraid of getting negative feedback ourselves for trying to enforce the rules.

I had a scammer give me negative feedback for a bogus reason, and even though the person's account was closed quickly by admin, the negative feedback is still there, so I don't think there is a way to have that undone.

I rarely give a negative, but I did when I requested a book and the owner said he couldn't find it, he only had 4 books in his inventory... how hard is it to keep track of only four books?????????

Oh, and I should add, he wasn't a "newbie" been a member for a quite a while... I have a lot of patience with our new members, it takes a while to get the "hang" of everything.

>124 carlym:

"How hard is it to keep books for mooching in one place? And to take them off your inventory if you give them away?"

When you've been on the site for over a year, have hundreds of books listed, have books listed on multiple sites, and have a busy life... it just happens sometimes. I always feel terrible when I reject a mooch, but it's happened an embarrassing number of times. I've sent over 500 books, so it's still a relatively small percentage of my total mooches... but it does happen.

If you're considering giving a negative, consider the totality of the circumstances. If someone just joined the site, rejecting a mooch for not being able to find the book is ridiculous (though I wouldn't necessarily give a negative to a newbie). If someone barely has any points and rejects a lot of books, it is highly suspicious (could be listing books just to get points). But if someone has a large inventory, lots of points, and lots of positive feedback, giving them a negative score for one lost book can seem kind of harsh.

Just for laughs, here are some of the more interested rejections I received in the past year:

"I am sorry, but due to my losing my job I cannot mail any books out at this time. I am so sorry."

Shouldn't you just put your account on vacation then? (Although maybe they did after this request).

"For a few weeks, I'm going to be sending only within the state."

Uhhh both first class and media mail cost the same anywhere within the US (I told them as much and they never replied).

"sorry, i've made a mistake, i can't send this book it's not mine"

Wait, what?

"Can't keep track"

Again, what??

".."

Yes, that was the entire reason given!

LOL! Those are as classic as the reasons people give a cop for speeding!

Not a rant ...more a giggle

Requested a book today August 20th and was told yes but I would have to wait till May 2011...is that a record for a delay ?

I have seen some members who have those long waiting lists... Gosh, I hope they keep good spreadsheets! LOL

Can't imagine how they do it ...I would be buried in books by then.

>132 Gerri007:

Holy cow!!! That would be an epic wait. If they are using those points to request books, it seems like abuse of the site to me.

128: If someone lists books on multiple sites and posts a notice on their bio or status that a book may not be available because it got taken by a user on another site, I consider myself duly warned and would not give a negative if the book was no longer available.

But--can't people keep all their swap books in one place? I've given away hundreds and have a busy life too, but I have yet to lose any. When I list one, I put in in a box in a certain closet so it isn't mixed up with other books.

Oh, that everyone were that organized. Fortunately, I only have a small inventory and have them segregated on my bookshelves.

>131 I-_-I: jfThing
It is often the case, when an 'ask first' is sent that the member does not actually get the request - it gets caught in spam filters etc. That is why you may not get a response (and is frustrating when you see that they have been on the site in that time.)

It is not OK to go ahead and mooch the book without a 'yes' response - no matter what - that is one of the actions that is most complained about to admin. What I do is wait a few days and if I don't get a response send a personal email to them asking if they had received my request I had sent, though I'm not sure because they haven't responded...blah blah blah... please could I have the book and IF NOT (upper case for this comment only) would they be so kind and hold until I find an angel as I totally understand if they are unable to send blah blah blah....

A lot of times I get an answer that way and also telling me they haven't seen my first formal request; others who do not reply I try to get someone to snaffle it when my reservation runs out and the negative answers (rejections) I post straight away to all the 'angel' forums. You don't miss out on too many that way - but some you just need to let go; to leave for another day. :)
I hope that helps...

132: While that is kinda funny, I do think you should click abuse on that one. Admin has told me before (when I inquired after having a similar experience) that if someone knows they can't ship for *that* long they should not be listing books, and using the points in the meantime would most likely be abuse.

Also, I've never given negative feedback for someone not being able to find the book, but if it looks like a pattern I do click abuse. Honestly, I click abuse often if something seems off... Sometimes it's something simple like reminding the person to keep track of their inventory, etc, but it may not go over well if I tried to tell them, where if admin sends a gentle reminder it usually helps.

I agree with Heather19. If there are a lot of rejections, go ahead and click abuse. Then they'll determine things and you won't get angry feedback.

I'm not sure that the busy life and multiple swap sites is a good excuse. If someone is tremendously busy then they should only list on one site at a time. If they choose to list on more than one site they should have a system in place where they remove the book from other sites immediately, and only list less popular titles on multiple sites. If I do read on a profile that they list on more than one site, I just don't mooch from them unless I really want the book and I'm prepared to be disappointed.

Okay, I *know* I probably sound bitchy in my feedback to this person, but I'm very annoyed!

Condition notes are optional, yes, but there are reminders EVERYWHERE (wiki, the forum, the newbie/help page, etc etc) that if there is anything noticably different/wrong with the book, it should be noted. (Honestly, I'm one who thinks condition notes should be mandatory, but that's another rant)

Saying in your profile that your books are not mint-condition is NOT good enough when you send out books where half the freakin' cover is torn away from the spine, with NO condition notes. "not mint condtion" is usually interpreted as scuffs and reading-wear, not huge obvious tears!

I left negative feedback, not only for the condition itself but because I specifically asked about the condition when I mooched, and the person didn't respond for two weeks and then marked it sent only hours later. I didn't even have time to respond about the condition.

#141: She knew the condition wasn't acceptable, otherwise she wouldn't have sent it so quickly after letting you know!!

#141- I'm so with you on that, Heather. It really doesn't take that much effort to list the condition, yet over and over I'm coming across books that have no condition notes and the owners don't reply when I ask.

I'm starting to think about quitting on bookmooch. Everytime i send a book out internationally it costs me around 7 euro's (about 9 dollar). But ok, i get the points for it, so no problem. But today i finally found a book i want, and the person's profile says there willing to send to my country. So i'm happy, later on i got a message. I've i'm willing to pay 10 euro's he will send the book and otherwise not.This is the second time people ask me to pay for a book

That's not cool, shouldn't that be reported as abuse?

Notify abuse on that one, nightvamp. That is a serious breach of BookMooch rules.

@144 : maybe it's a new member who doesn't understand the rules?

@144: I understand you're upset, but I think you've just had some bad experiences.
I live in Belgium, so like you most books I can mooch come from abroad too, and there never was someone to ask me for shipping.

(I'm wondering which service you use: for a parcel to send within Europe, TNT shouldn't charge you more than € 6.16 if the book is less than 1000 gr. )

Asking for money like that is VERY much against the BM rules, definitely report that. I'm sorry you've had experiences like that, but I really hope you realize that it's really a minority. There will always be those few who break the rules and hope to get away with it, or who make experiences bad, but the overwhelming majority of BMers are very nice (and fun!).

I added several books to my Bookmooch inventory today, and two books were requested within a couple of hours after I added them...

A few hours after I accepted the second request, the member cancelled on me... Fortunately, she did so quickly and there was no chance I could mail the book before she cancelled, however, she still cost me the time to prepare that package for mailing and the money to print her address label... I'm less than happy about that to begin with.

And then, I look at her record. She has cancelled over 300 mooch requests since 2007, which is nearly 100 cancellations in a year, and about 15 to 20% of her total requests. IMHO that amount of cancellation should be an abuse of the system! Her reason for the cancellation is that she will borrow her friend's copy of the book. That's not a good enough reason by my reckoning... she should have checked out the possibility of borrowing - if that's an option for her - before requsting.

Is there a way to block her from requesting my books? I'm really not comfortable doing trades with someone who cancels one in 5 or 6 of her requests.

Most of the time someone asks for money, it is simply a misunderstanding.

A polite explanation of how things are done will nearly always suffice, please try that first.

1dragones -- one is allowed to cancel for any reason at all, it is in no way against site rules. If you are using e-postage, then only make a postage purchase after having clicked 'sent,' and then be sure to send soon after.

But even if one is allowed to cancel for any reason, surely that frequent level of canceling is abuse? That person is obviously costing members time, and probably some money, and it seems it's because she just clicks "mooch" indiscriminately and then goes back through deciding what she "really" wants.

Just the number of cancels isn't necessarily enough to go on. I have about 60 cancels currently in slightly over a year. I'd say maybe 5, at most 10, of them were due to an error I made (maybe I mooched the same book twice or the wrong edition or that kind of thing) but the rest of them would all be canceled due to non-response.

151. I don't use e-postage for just that reason... but printing the address labels still costs me money for ink; which I normally don't mind when the package actually does get sent. In this case, I was able to remove her address and otherwise leave the package ready to mail, so the next time, I just have to put a proper address on it.

While I understand that members can cancel for any reason, it's more her frequency of cancellation that concerns me than her flimsy reasoning... and I would still like to have some legitimate reasoning not to consider trades with people who cancel so many transactions.

I always must depend on someone else to take my packages to the post office... which also means I can never predict exactly when a package will get sent. I always say two weeks, and often get the packages sent much sooner... I cannot reasonably say "tomorrow" or even "a few days" with any sort of accuracy though. It might take more than a few days or even up to a week or 10 days for my packages to get to the postoffice.

153. > It would be a lot of work to sort through over 1600 transactions to see the 300+ cancelled ones, but I'm betting not one of her cancellations was for non-response. Cancellation for non-response is logical and to be expected. Sorry you have run into so many people like that... and otherwise five or even 10 errors isn't so bad.

I have a lot of cancellations, but almost all of them were due to non-response. Since I have a lot of points, I often take chances mooching from people that seem unlikely to respond.

@148

Hi,

I use tnt, but i mostly send to the US and that's more expensive.
The person i mooched from was also from Belgium

157> Well, you're still lucky not to be (to far) in Belgium when shipping to the States!
For parcels under 2kg, Belgian post is 50% more expensive than TNT. I live very close to the border, and furthermore I work in the Netherlands, so I have 'the best of two worlds': I ship to Belgium from Belgium, to Holland from Holland, and abroad I also use the Dutch post, unless the parcel is over 2 kg, because than Belgium is a lot cheaper again ;-)

Guess it's time for a newbie question then..... if you mooch a book and the person never responds, I assume eventually you cancel and then you get your points back, right? When you cancel, can you give "no response" as the reason?

(Sorry, I imagine some of these answers are on BookMooch, but to be honest, as much as I love the site, I find it doesn't always contain info where I expect to find it. And I'm afraid I find the forums difficult to read in the format they're in.)

A. You mooch a book; the owner responds and the book arrives after X time.
B. You mooch a book; the owner never responds, but the book arrives after X time.
C. You mooch a book; the owner never responds. After 7 days (by Bookmooch time, so waiting 8 days never hurts), you will get a "Why are you cancelling?" menu of options on the cancel screen (along with the normal text box to leave your own feedback). One of said options is "The Book Owner Never Responded". When you choose that option, the owner's account will be put on vacation.

yes, that is what happens.

and if you put 'no response', then the member is put on vacation & no mooches happen.

I'm not sure if they get an email about it or if they come off vacation if they login....

but you can give both a private comment & a public comment.

How long have you waited for a response? have you tried reminding them or emailing them already? If you have emailed or reminded them, then a more strongly worded public comment may be warranted to inform others.

they may no longer have the book & don't want to reject it because it might 'look bad'

Thanks for the info! This hasn't happened to me yet; I was just asking in response to the ongoing discussion about canceling.

So another newbie question, if I may....... so far I am only mailing within U.S. For those mailing internationally from U.S. (either on own behalf or as angels), is the post office allowing you to choose surface shipping to Canada, Europe and Australia, for example? I thought I heard over a year ago that there was "no surface" shipping anymore. Even if that's not true, the postal workers aren't reciting options these days.

I mailed a non-BookMooch book to Germany last week. It was a thin trade paperback with a retail value of $12 -- and shipping cost another $12. So that's my hesitancy to send my books overseas via BookMooch.... Have you found reasonably priced options? Is the post office still shipping surface?

^Oh gosh, I'm so sorry! I thought I was in the "newbie" thread -- will repost there immediately. Please ignore here. (I'm so embarrassed -- what a newbie thing to do, and I'm NOT a LT newbie, just a BookMooch newbie!)

amysisson, anywhere you ask questions is fine.

Yes, mailing internationally is more expensive, but not that much more expensive than mailing domestically. It cost you about $4 a point for the book to Germany and it costs between $2-3 per point domestically. The book you sent would cost much more there, if it were available at all and you are doing your part to foster a global community. Yea, you!

@macsbrains & @rainbowgirl28:

I'm glad I'm not the only one with cancellations! I've been a member for about a year and have had 57 so far. I'd say probably 50 were from people who didn't respond, 4 were mistakes on my part, and 3 were books that were accepted but delayed, and I found through other, non-BM channels.

I have cancellations, too. I'd say 98-99% are either canceled for condition (where the owner didn't put a condition note, so I emailed & asked, & then canceled based on their response) or canceled for non response. It happens.

I'm under the impression that it's rejections that you have to watch for (as opposed to cancellations.)

I liked it much better when you could click on Cancellations in the Bio & be taken directly to them, rather than just to the person's history page.

#166
Oh yes, I would also think it a great improvement if you could go to particular parts of histories, or just search them. There is so much information in there, but getting more than just a rough impression out of it is just too much work.
Questions like: have I mooched from this person before? How many of the cancellations were for non-response? Relevant questions, and the information is in there, but nearly impossible to extract. Grrr.

A rant at myself this time--I recently picked up a stack of wishlisted books at a booksale ($10 a bag--it seemed only reasonable to fill the bag up) and put them in my inventory. They went quickly, except for some reason, one of the books reappeared in my inventory after I'd accepted a mooch from someone else. So I had to reject it and I feel like a toad. Like if I were a decent human being, I'd pull my own beautiful hardcover copy off of the shelf and send it to this unfortunate moocher.

Also, booksales. These are becoming an issue. It's just that the after sale featured $10 for an entire paper grocery bag of books.

166.> "I liked it much better when you could click on Cancellations in the Bio & be taken directly to them, rather than just to the person's history page."

I would like that too...

I would love a feature that said:

Books you've mooched from this member:

Books they mooched from you:

Maybe even:

BM friends you have in common

-168: Don't be so hard on yourself, it was great that you thought to get the books :) And cancellations do happen from time to time, 'even in the best of families these days' so I am sure they understood (Or should have in any case :P ).

-168 Ridgeway, which book? Can any of us help?

It was On Chesil Beach, a slender little book by Ian McEwan. The mooch I had to reject was an international one. I had 2 previous rejections on my record from my early days in BookMooch, so I'm skating on thin ice here.

Garsh, I have the guilt thing down, don't I?

I have rejected 6 total since January of 09.

1 - I needed address clarification and never got it after several weeks
2 - I got click happy adding books to my wishlist and accidentally added them to my inventory. Even though I went in promptly to remove them, BMers have itchy trigger fingers.
2 - They were large hardbacks that would not have fit in a flat rate envelope so would have cost me around $20 to send. At the time, I couldn't afford it (but gave in on one of them because she really really really wanted it)
1 - I had added it as a freebie and forgot to remove it from my inventory. (I know, I know, you don't have to say it)

I have had **ducks** 120 cancellations in the same time frame. Majority were due to clarification of condition or non response. I have lots of points so I get crazy with the requesting...also taking chances on people who haven't been on in a while.

But I do have a perfect +449 feedback which makes me very very happy and I will cry the day someone gives me a -1.

OOooo, make that +450!! :D

i thought the same thing about a -1 Bella, but I sent a very old book that I had mooched from australia to a woman in the US who gave me a -1 because she said the book "reeked of cigarette smoke" I didn't smell it or I would have noted it in my condition notes, which are usually quite detailed. I felt so bad about about it I gave her back her point plus one, and she answered "I deserve this because I had to throw out the book" then I went to B & N where I am a "member" and with my 15% off + the "member discount" I ordered a new copy . Since it was very very old, they did not have it in stock but sent it directly to her . She NEVER changed that darned -1 despite all my efforts to make it right, so my reputation is tarnished and I did all that stuff for 'NOTHING'.
When I was new to BM I also got a -1 with no comment. So I e-mailed the person and asked what was wrong with the mooch and how could I make it right??? he never even bothered to answer, so to this day, I still don't know what went wrong.
I also got a couple of zeros that were never explained to me... :-(

However, I figure that with 799 Pluses for 803 mooches, people will figure out that those were anomalies and I'm really a safe person to mooch from.
Now, I just go with the flow, I feel that sometimes no matter what you do, there is no pleasing some people.

I feel that sometimes no matter what you do, there is no pleasing some people.

That is absolutely true!

WHY don't people just vacation themselves instead of posting status messages that say "Don't mooch from me right now!"? Isn't it easier to just go "on vacation", anyway? Gah! Drives me *crazy*!

>166 iwillrejoice:: "I'm under the impression that it's rejections that you have to watch for (as opposed to cancellations.)"

Although i'm relatively new to this, i'm not sure that's a great measure either. I've been rejected 4 times on 47 mooch requests, and 3 of those were because the user had set their account to "worldwide" but decided that they didn't want to send that particular book to Canada. I watched one user reject first me and 3 other international would-be international moochers because he wanted to send within his country but refused to change his account setting accordingly. (There was nothing in the condition notes about his preference either.) Eventually, he just removed the book from his inventory. Point being, it seems like each cancellation and rejection has to be judged on a case-by-case basis.

>178 I-_-I:

They mean books people requested from you and you rejected, not books that you requested and the other person rejected.

Ah... of course. That makes more sense!

Okay, I have a new one. Have any of you had address issues? The books that I was waiting to be received (that I sent out 8/2) just arrived at my house marked 'Return to sender insufficient address'

I used the label button for the 1st time on that mooch. I have emailed her what happened but she does not log on very often nor respond to previous emails and ironically (she is a newbie) she has received other books since joining Jul 30.

Who is responsible? The moocher or the system?

Now, I am out more postage and gas to the post office which is a 20 mile trip. (Waa! Okay, I feel better now)

177.> WHY don't people just vacation themselves instead of posting status messages that say "Don't mooch from me right now!"? Isn't it easier to just go "on vacation", anyway?"

Probably they don't for the same reason I am reluctant to do so. I have requests for four books out there. The senders have agreed to ship those books but have not yet done so. I would have to take my account off vacation to acknowledge the packages when they do arrive...

I also have several books to ship to others, and will need to log on again when those packages have gone to the post office...

So having my account on vacation will be as much of a pain as a help to me right now, but I'm probably going to do that shortly anyhow... If putting my account on vacation only blocked my inventory from being seen by other members but allowed the other functions to remain open, that would be better.

Depending on how many books you have, you could just remove your inventory and repost it when ready to ship again.

>181 highdesertlady:

Yes! I sent a rather large book to Canada one time, I think it was $7 or $8 in postage and it was RETURNED!!

I contacted abuse, I forget what they said though. In this case, I didn't want her to be able to claim it was lost and get her point back. However, she just went MIA and never responded, so I was able to force receive it (or maybe the admins did for me because I had it reposted only 2 weeks later).

I assumed she never returned to the site, but I actually went through my old emails and looked at her account. It looks like she eventually came back and went on to be a somewhat solid moocher.

I just think the system owes me a couple of points. It was their glitch that caused the mistake. I put in a tech support request... we'll see.

Less than 20 books, but most with condition notes of one kind or another, so too much trouble to repost the inventory, because I'd either have to save the condition notes or retype them all when I start over again... more effort than I want to put in for books that I'm giving away.

I think people leave their inventories up because they want to use the points they get for posting books in their inventories.

I'm not sure that returning to active status from "on vacation" is so difficult that this can be used as an excuse. Doesn't this take just a few minutes? And would save people getting excited about finding a book they want only to not be able to mooch it? It also makes the member look dodgy, even when they're not.

>181 highdesertlady:

This happens very often to me; I bet that a large percentage of all parcels marked "lost" on BM are actually parcels which addressees fail to collect or miss because the gave incorrect address details (because they fear for their privacy) in the first place. The reason it happens so much to me is that I send all parcels by registered mail (yes, costs me an extra $2) and then parcels are returned to me if something is wrong.

I have also had people simply move in the mean time!

Unfortunately, BM has no suggested course of action.

I nowadays put in my condition notes that in any such cases, the addressee agrees to mark the book "received".

Oh, you won't believe how silly people respond to this, and all about wanting to get their points back.

183: I have 70 books right now, an all-time low. Usually I have 100-150. Taking them out and putting them back in (along with detailed condition notes for each book) would be pure bedlam. Sorry, but I will assume that readers are literate than go to all that trouble :P However I would know better than to post new books when I couldn't send out, and would post a notice in the status that shows with each book.

>185 highdesertlady:

Don't resend the book unless she sends you another point! I think the admins can force it received so that she does not get her point back.

I hate it when people list new books when they are not ready to send them.

I get not wanting to go on vacation for whatever reason, but I have some saved searches that only show newly listed books and I still have trouble. I guess sometimes they could be newly listed because someone got tired of waiting and cancelled, but I have had countless times when someone posted a book less than 24 hours before, then either rejected or never responded.

This is my first rant, any advice would be greatly appreciated!
I'm a BM newbie. I requested a book, and it was accepted. The giver was also a total newbie, looked like she'd only joined that day. After accpting my request, she went on to request one of my books. I accepted, sent my book out and happily waited for my book to arrive.
2 weeks later she emailed me apologising for not sending the book to me, and said she'd forgotten and she'd send it the next day.
Another week and it's still not marked as sent. I checked her page and she's removed all books from her inventory, looks like she's not coming back....
I've sent an email back to her, just saying that if she can't send me the book please could she cancel the request, and even if she's not keen on using the site any more, please could she mark my book as received.
What else can I do? As my first experience this is pretty annoying!!

No need to pity anyone...Just don't bother to read this thread or comment

193: I probably shouldn't bother to respond to such a post, but I really hope you are kidding.

With many, if not most, of the situations we rant about, coming in here to get it off our chest is the only recourse we have. There is only so much that can be done on BM when it comes to frustrating lack of communication or such. We can click on abuse, sometimes, but then what? You want us to hold in all our frustration and not say anything to anyone about it?

Okay, sorry, I'm in a pissy mood today. But seriously, this thread is here for a reason. If you don't like it, don't read!

192: If the person ends up not coming back to mark the book recieved, you can eventually "force-recieve" after a certain amount of time, after you have clicked/sent a reminder. I hope your books eventually shows up!

I'm in a similar boat right now. Requested a book, no response. Sent a reminder 14 days later, got a response of "will send tomorrow". It's over a week later with no further communication and the book has not been marked sent. Just sent an email asking if they've mailed it.

>192 Pedrolina:

Edit: Looks like Heather19 beat me to it about the forced receive.

Sorry your first experience didn't go very well :(

If you hit the reminder button on the book you sent, then after 6 weeks a button will appear that says "force receive" and you can click it to clear it from your page. It will then count as received and not lost.

193 and 195

For what it's worth, as a newbie I'm finding this thread informative. It's showing me what should be good BookMooch etiquette. (Like 99% of all etiquette, it's really just common sense and consideration, but it's not hurting me to be reminded.)

187 > I tried putting myself on vacation, but when I kept logging in and taking myself off vacation to mark books received, I ended up forgetting to put myself back on vacation. It was easier to just stay not on vacation and delay mooches and not add any books to my inventory.

I've never imagined I'd post on this thread but I'm feeling quite upset about a response to feedback (which was positive not negative but contained some constructive criticism.

I mooched 2 books which arrived this morning - they were ok as it happened but were in brown paper envelopes, no jiffys, no protection. I commented in feedback that these had arrived ok but he should wrap them better or people would complain.

Other person has posted the response on BM that I should be more grateful as postage for the books cost nearly £4, and not to mooch from that person again!

How's this for a 'whoops' from a moocher?

I received a mooched book today... that was addressed to the author!!

yes, instead of saying "skittles" it had the author's first & last name with my address!!

I noticed it at the post office counter & the clerk asked if I wanted to send it back. It was media mail & looked as if it was one of my mooches, so I said no. If it wasn't my book, it would be easier to send it on its correct journey than having the sender have to pay for media postage when it came home!

I'm just glad my post office doesn't enforce the name on the post box rule. They saw it was a book. It had my box number on it. I got it. Easy Peasy.

I love my post office!

>200 skittles:
:)

200: *gigglesnorts!*

199: *rolls eyes and groans* That person certainly isn't going to make many friends with that attitude. (And I really think I'm showing my revenge-mind right now, because my response to that would be to mooch another book despite what they said, to see what they would do. If they rejected I'd hit abuse, 'cause yeah, not appropriate. Not that I would suggest doing that, I just have a hard time not being that way sometimes)

I would think *they* would be grateful to get some tips on how to be a better BMer! Gosh. There's just no pleasing some people.

If you mooch books, you will eventually come across someone whose only response is some variant of "shut up, the book was free." I think these people can safely be ignored (or reported to abuse, depending on the circumstances) as they are a tiny minority and do not reflect the mooching community as a whole.

@ 1dragones & Danneeness

I do understand the problems with "vactioning" oneself, though I personally don't see a problem with activating and deactivating an account when needed. Then again, I haven't personally been in that situation, so perhaps I shouldn't talk.

Primarily, just wish that the user would have, at the very least, delayed my mooch instead of letting it sit there with NO response and then rejecting it when I sent a reminder email. I mean, that's just kind of unfriendly, in my opinion. I wasn't asking the user to send the book right away, but I don't think it was unreasonable for me to request an eta.

199 & 196: Thanks! Fortunately my politely worded emailo did the trick, she's rejected my request so I've got my point back. And acknowledged receiving the book I sent with +1 feedback.
All happy now!

202: Thank you, you've at least reassured me that I'm not some wicked person. I won't mooch any more books from him, but I might look at his mooching feedback from time to time to see if anyone else has trouble - though no one else so far has mentioned any problems.

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