April TIOLI: Tag mirror discussion

This is the discussion thread for April's TIOLI challenge to Read a book from the bold part of tag mirror of the person below you. I have a feeling there may be a lot of questions at first....

You can sign up for the challenge here.

Now, for some starter questions....

Have you ever used the Tag Mirror before? What do you think of it? Do you often look for book suggestions in other people's catalogues? Does this challenge make any sense?

Clarification: it must be a bold tag. Otherwise we could all just be reading "fiction", and that's not a challenge....

Copying the challenge description from the main TIOLI thread:

What is the tag mirror? You can find a "tag mirror" link on each person's profile, in the Clouds section. This shows the person's books as tagged by other people. Here's mine. Click on a tag to see which books the person has in that category.

The size of the tags indicates how many of that sort of book there are, and boldness indicates tags that are especially important for that user. Pretty much every tag mirror will have a big "fiction" tag, but that's not particularly meaningful.

So, here's what you have to do for this challenge:
1. List your name on the sign-up thread (coming).
2. Go to the tag mirror of the person who posts after you.
3. Look at their bold tags only. Avoid series tags (e.g.: Babysitter's Little Sister); they almost always end up bold just because no one would apply those tags to books not in the series.
4. Choose a book from the user's list for one of the bold tags. You're encouraged to ask the user for suggestions. For example, if Madeline posted after me, I might see that some of her bold tags are "Israel" and "food politics" but not have any idea which of her books to start with. Since she's an "expert" on these topics, she could help me choose a good book. This will help you get to know the other user and also come up with some good reading ideas!

One additional rule: Shared reads are always allowed. So you can read a book that someone else has already posted even if you wouldn't have qualified to post it yourself.

Is this confusing enough? ;)

I think I get it. I go to Mary's (bell7's) cloud, then her tag mirror, then click on one of the bolded ones and pick out a book she has already read. Is that right?

>3 lindapanzo: Yup, that's it! It doesn't even have to be one she's read, just any from one of her bolded lists.

I have bohemina, so I'll probably be doing one of her Books About Books. "Jewish" and "British Mystery" are also promising tags there.

Tip: You can change the number of tags showing in the tag mirror to get more options. I generally prefer the 500-tag view.

Well, DragonFreak, I got you babe. We have some pretty different tastes in literature, but I went with Tales of a Fourth Grade Nothing because I'm one of the few people in the world who haven't yet read it. I'm sure I'll like it.

Ok I think I did this right. Goddesspt2 is below me on sign-up thread. I went to her tag mirror selections and chose
African American and from the list I have decided on Incidents In the Life of A Slave Girl by Harriet Jacobs. Bonus for me as I have it on my shelves already!

>5 Citizenjoyce: Ok, but I hope by saying "babe" you're not calling me a girl, because techniquely I'm not. Other people say differently...

How will matches work for this challenge? If someone's reading a book, must the person whose mirror tag I'm following also have read the book before I can match?

>6 DeltaQueen50: Yup, that's exactly right!

>8 lindapanzo: Matches are allowed no matter what. If you see a book on the wiki, you can match it for points.

Just to clarify, it's supposed to be a bold tag--I think that got lost in the lengthy description. If we could all choose "fiction" it wouldn't be a challenge!

I think I have this figured out.. but just to make sure: I'm choosing a book from the library of the person below me. And I'm choosing it by going to their Cloud, then their Tag Mirror, choosing a bolded tag, which then lists their books that others have tagged this way (this is the part I'm not sure of), and choose a book from that list. Right?

>12 ivyd: Yup, that's right!

There's a direct link to the tag mirror somewhere in the middle of the profile, or you can go via the clouds link at the top.

>11 _Zoe_: But can they be small also. Because there are some small bolded tags too.

I have to go back and check. I think I was looking for large tags, not necessarily bolded ones.

>14 DragonFreak: Yup, small bolded tags are fine.

Note that the default view is 250 tags, but you can choose to see 500 or even 1000 tags to get more selection (at least up to a certain point).

oh crap I did mine wrong then. I thought large tags worked, but not unless their bolded. crappity crap crap crap

Can someone explain what bolded means for purposes of the tag mirror? How about what the larger size means? This is confusing to me.

NB: Which tags are in bold (same as the difference between a normal typeface and a bold typeface in Word or any other word processing program) vary by the # of tags you select. So something that is bold on 100 or 250, might not be in 500. But something small might be visible on 500 and bolded, that wasn't even visible at the smaller ratio... So there is a bit of flexibility.

Thanks, Suz. I blush to admit but I sometimes have a tough time determining whether something is bolded.

Just like how, sometimes, you need to fill in what text you see so they know you're not a computer. I once had to have my boss look over my shoulder and tell me what it said because I kept reading too much into it.

For example, on Zoe's with 500 tags, 19th century looks bolded to me.

Thanks, I had missed the "bold" part initially. Now fixed.

What happens if you can't find any books from that person that you want to read? Can you drop out? TIOLI?

No, DragonFreak, I didn't think you were a girl. I was just posting in my Cher persona.

>23 Citizenjoyce: OK, making sure. I can understand that without knowing who Cher is. But if people just hear my voice, they think I'm a number of things. The best thing I heard was a gay 17 year old. The worst was a chinese lesbian 11 year old. I hate that person.

Just for you, DragonFreak.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzW_7ANnHZI
Cher is somewhat older now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOHktFoe6ds

or if you watched the X-files you have to know this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0mL2gzy8dE&feature=BF&list=MLGxdCwVVULXe...

OK, thanks for explaining that to me.

>22 cyderry: Yup, you can always choose to "leave it"! I regularly sign up for too many challenges and sometimes don't even complete my own. The reason for leaving it doesn't matter.

I hope everyone can get accustomed to the way bold looks with a little practice. I find it helpful to compare the tags with others of the same size.

Linda, for Mary's tag cloud, some of the promising bold tags are Newbery, Newbery Medal, etc.; Printz Award; librarians; manga; foster care; Mr. Darcy; reader's advisory; tennis. Hopefully that helps.

I think I get the general idea of choosing a bold tag from souloftherose's library, but how do I tell which books I'm choosing from? When I click on one of her bold tags, I see a list of books, but is that from her library? Or are those just books that others have tagged like that? Eep!

Click a tag, wise one, click a tag! (At least that's what I did.) AND I got Madeline's library, AND when I clicked on Ireland, book number two in the list was Brooklyn which I've been wanting to read since it came out, AND I'm a happy person, AND I wonder whether I was supposed to say that here! Off to register it on the wiki!

>28 wisechild: Yes, all the books on the list are from her library :)

I had a hard time deciding which tags were bold and which weren't so I went with a sure thing: Baseball! Here's the one I just ordered from Amazon, even though you gave it one star, lindapanzo:

A Chicago Tavern: A Goat, A Curse, and the American Dream by Rick Kogan.

@majkia: I added about 20 books since I signed up for the challenge earlier today; hope that helps!

Sorry, originally posted this in the sign-up thread and realized it might confuse alleycatfish and they would choose me to look for a mirror tag, when I've already been chosen.

For folks finding a difficult match, you can try looking at the person's Books You Share in the right-hand column and then work backward to see if a bolded mirror tag fits. It might narrow your search a bit.

> 29

Good choice, LizzieD! I listened to that book on CD and enjoyed it so much that I got another book by the same author. I hope you enjoy the book you picked.

> 1

Zoe,

What makes some of the tags bold?

I picked one where I'd stand a good chance of really enjoying what was in there-- historical fiction -- and happily it and police procedurals were the only two definitely bold faced categories!

I must have freaked out Dragonfreak -- I'm curious to see which of my (many many) books he has chosen, but nothing yet...

>33 SqueakyChu: The tag is bold if it's particularly significant for that person, meaning generally that they tend to have more of that sort of book than the average LT member. So a tag like "fiction" will probably never be bold because everyone has a lot of fiction; it's not a particularly meaningful tag to judge someone's library by. Basically, bold tags represent someone's particularly noteworthy interests. If I were trying to describe what made your library unique, I wouldn't say, "Oh, she has a lot of fiction, 20th-century stuff, American literature, and biography"; those categories could describe many libraries, even though you do happen to have a lot of those books. But you're particularly unique in your concentration on Jewish/Israeli literature, Japanese literature, food politics books, baking books, and books about autism. Those are the interesting tags that are bolded to make them stand out.

Thanks, Zoe. Those are the topics in which I'm particularly interested. It's pretty cool how the LT algorithm picks those out.

>34 Chatterbox: You did freak me out. A fourth of the problem is finding out what to read, the other 3/4 is actually getting the book. I'll look later again.

@Megi53 I'm good! I found Mistborn which I've been wanting to read for a year. Thanks!

I'm having no trouble finding stuff in Smiler69's bold tags- she has loads of books tagged that I want to read. I'm not even close to narrowing down which one I'll select.

If I had checked my tag mirror first, I probably wouldn't have signed up for this challenge. It's all my Paganism books and 1) it's not reflective of my current library as I haven't gotten around to getting rid of the boxed up books and 2) it feels too much like forcing religion on someone.

Ah well. Sorry goddesspt2!

>38 majkia: (and Zoe) So if I read Mistborn this month, would it count for a shared read?

>41 Megi53: Yup, you can count it as a shared read.

No one should worry about whether their bold tags are too limited. I think pretty much everyone will still be able to find something they want to read; for example, Morphidae, in your 1000-tag cloud you have Book Lust under reader's advisory, which seems like a pretty safe bet for any reader.

Morphidae, absolutely no need for apologies. The book I chose was one I had in a previous TIOLI challenge on religion and couldn't get to it then. It was recommended by another LTer, so I'm really looking forward to reading it.

>45 TadAD: By important, I mean that you have books with that tag more than the average user does. So there might be some obscure topic that you only have five books about, but that could be bold if most people have no books like that. Whereas you might have a lot of fiction, but that's not significant because so does everyone else.

The problem is that series tend to be bolded more than anything else, because series tags are applied to such a limited set of books.

The size of a tag indicates the basic numbers. Your fiction, historical fiction, history, etc. tags are big because you have a lot of those books, but they're not bold because you don't particularly have a lot of them compared to everyone else.

>46 _Zoe_:: I saw your explanation above after I wrote that. I tried to delete it before you had to go to the trouble of writing it again. Sorry.

>35 _Zoe_:: Basically, bold tags represent someone's particularly noteworthy interests

I didn't realize it meant that...and I'll say that it's an algorithm that appears to be somewhat misleading. It seems to favor books you just "happen to have" and that form exceedingly small fractions of a library.

For example, if I take all the bold ones from my Tag Mirror and disregard series tags, author tags and generic tags (e.g., "eBook"), I'm left with 8 bold tags.

Of those eight, half of them ("depression glass", "com", "shooting", "karate"), when taken as a group, form less than ½% of the library and don't really represent interests so much as books lying around.

I think it would be interesting if they built is so that it factored in how much you pursued it, not just whether you happen to have 2 books on depression glass, which is more than the average person has.

Of course, this doesn't make your challenge less interesting—I realize that it was somewhat your point. It's just idle thinking.

I will spare anyone having to force themselves to read Nautical Fiction because they aren't interested in depression glass, computer languages, a book on classic guns my grandfather left me or bios on a couple of karate practitioners. :-D

>47 TadAD: It does look like your tag mirror has fewer bold tags than average; I wonder why that is. Most people seem to have more big bold ones.

There's nothing wrong with nautical fiction, though, especially since there's a group read of H.M.S Surprise starting on April 1!

>48 _Zoe_:: I have a tentative theory about why.

My library is books I've read vs. books I own. As such, it the bulk of it is from high school, college, post-college when I read a lot of science fiction, fantasy and mysteries.

I just went and looked at a number of different people's Tag Mirrors...ones where I'm reasonably familiar with the texture of their reading. Readers who are heavily into genre reading seem to have a noticeably smaller percentage of bold tags. Perhaps readers of those genres tend to tag lightly or they tend to read a lot of the same stuff, minimizing the bold tagging.

My reading has changed a fair bit in the last few years, but it will take time for the balance to change noticeably. Perhaps the algorithm that selects which tags to actually show has a bias toward similar libraries. I wonder if we could show more tags, say 5000, would I see a lot more bolding.

>49 TadAD: If you look at the 100 Tags on your Tag Mirror, you get Mystery and Cozy Mystery, which are fairly generic. I am wondering why your Newbery Medal and Newbery Honor category is not bold, but it is on other peoples. You have 40 Newbery Titles, whereas you have only 10 karate titles, which is in bold. Their number crunching is a mystery to me.

>50 chinquapin:: I am wondering why your Newbery Medal and Newbery Honor category is not bold, but it is on other peoples.

That's odd. I hadn't noticed it.

This calculation seems to have some of the same aspects of Black Magic that the pre-revision Early Reviewer calculations had.

Thanks for the explanations clarifying the difference between large tags and bolded tags. I have picked out a book but may give the books we share route a chance, too.

Zoe, I re-read #2, 35 and 45 and finally get it. For some reason, it went right over my head the first couple of times I read your explanations, not sure why. Yesterday, I had been mortified when I had a look at my own tag mirror cloud, when I saw that it didn't at ALL reflect what the majority of my library is about, or didn't reflect my own tastes, for that matter. But I get it now.

#39 SO glad you've got more than you know what to choose from! That makes me glow with pride somehow. At least all that time spent obsessively tagging is of some use to another person. Silly of me, but there you have it! :-)

eta: I'm really having a hard time understanding what the mirror tags are about, but I think, maybe maybe it's starting to make sense to me. It's interesting for me, as an obsessive tagger to see how others have tagged my own books, and will surely send me into a whole new tagging frenzy!

HHHEEEEEELLLLLLPPPPP!!!

I hadn't looked at antqueen's mirror tags yet and discovered that almost every single one of her bold tags are for fantasy series, every one of which I've never heard of in my life before. I like fantasy, but up to a certain degree and the sort she likes is NOT my thing (sorry antqueen). I mean, I consider my tastes are pretty far-ranging, but the only book I saw that would be of interest to me is Dickens' A Christmas Carol which I have zero interest in reading in April! *Big Sigh*

Just keep looking, Ilana. I got Cheli (cyderry) as my person. As much as I love her TIOLI logo and her TIOLI frogs, I do not like her bolded book selections. :)

I looked over and over again until I found three possibilities. Of those three, I could only locate one of those books in my house. It was Geraldine Brooks' People of the Book. Why it was tagged "USA" I'll never know. However, it is one book I'll be happy to read.

So...good luck!

So, I think I'm going to go with The Good Earth from Ilana's tag mirror (tag- Pulitzer Prize)

#55 I'll go back and have another look, although I'm pretty sure I already looked through all her bolded tags. Wish me luck.... oh! You already have! :-)

#56 The Good Earth sounds like a great book! lol Thanks for reminding me I have it. My library is one big tbr collection, so I look forward to reading that one myself, though probably not this month.

#55 Too bad, Madeline. On the other hand, I would've loved to use Cheli's tag mirror (just think of all those mysteries!!), it's the (bad) luck of the draw.

> 57

Ilana, I just looked at antqueen's bolds. For me, they would have been even worse that cyderry's! We really do have different reading tastes. I did find a book by Niall Williams (which I haven't read) in one of the categories (I forgot which one now). I read that author a long time ago and liked the book I read. Perhaps that one? Or maybe one of the Black Stallions? Those are children's classics. I've never read those either. Let me know what you pick.

I give up. The ONLY tags that are bolded in antqueens tag mirror cloud are for fantasy series. No offence, I LOVE fantasy, like Neil Gaiman and Philip Pullman and Suzanne Collins... I'll read their books any day! But I was traumatized by Dungeons & Dragons as a young girl and anything that reminds me of that in any way, shape or form makes me break out in hives. We're talking about books with titles like The Key of the Keplian and Jhegaala and Zarsthor's Bane. The titles alone scare me. I've clicked on each and every bolded tag in the 1000 tags option, looked at ALL the books under those tags, and there's nothing remotely near anything I'd want to read. Again, no offence.

I guess it's not a big deal. Goodness knows I always overdo do it with the numbers of books I sign up for TIOLI challenges!

eta: sorry Madeline, I guess I was typing up my message when you posted yours. Thanks for having a look for me, but I think I'd best move on to other challenges. No biggie.

eta2: what I should add is that I always choose TIOLI books that are already in my possession, as I'm unwilling to add yet more books to my giant tbr pile.

>60 Smiler69: I know it's too late now, but just in case, there are some picture books under Little Monster, and there's always A Christmas Carol (or the pop-up book version) under Scrooge. I think Madeline was right in proposing a Black Stallion as a best bet, though.

For the Newbery issue discussed earlier, I think it was just a matter of numbers. 40 out of 4,600 isn't that much, whereas the person I'd seen with it bolded had 70 out of 1,200.

Madeline, I hate to disappoint you but Geraldine Brooks' People of the Book is not in my library, not even on my wishlist and I have no tag USA.

Can I make a suggestion?

According to your Tag Cloud - Children's stories are a possibility - have you read The Doll People? They have it at the library. It's in my bold tag 999 Challenge.

ETA - Zoe i have cheat--- sorry AlleyCat but with only 51 books tagged I couldn't find one book that I wanted to read - Gothic/Vampires just aren't my thing. So according to the writeup - "Read a book from the bold part of tag mirror of the person below you." - that person is Thornton37814 so in her tag mirror I have found a book and even though she is not participating - I'm going with her tag mirror (I think of it as LI of TIOLI). Please let me know if that's a problem, and I won't add the book I found in her Tag mirror to the wiki.

60>

Smiler69, if you're willing to reconsider, on antqueen's 1000-tag tag mirror "Master Li" shows up in bold, and Bridge of Birds is a good candidate for my favorite book ever; here's my review. Yes, it's fantasy, but it's not at all what you'd think of as "standard" Tolkien-derived fantasy. Even if you don't do the challenge this month, you should think about reading it, because it's beautiful.

>61 _Zoe_:: Hi Zoë.

On the "40 out of 4,600 isn't that much, whereas the person I'd seen with it bolded had 70 out of 1,200". The part about 4,600 and 1,200 are irrelevant, right? From above, the criterion is that someone has more books than average, regardless of what fraction of their library it is. So 40 is not above average (not bolded), 70 is (bolded). Correct?

>62 cyderry:: I've been working on tagging my books. I have a bad habit of only tagging books after I've read them - or not tagging ones that I have read before this year.

So, if you want, check my tag thing in a couple days. Might find something better. I don't only read just gothic/vampires :P Those were mostly for reading challenges I signed up for XD

62>

The whole point of tag mirror is that it doesn't matter how the other person tagged their books, or even if they tag them at all; it's how everyone on LT tags those books! Is there some confusion about tag mirror vs. tag cloud?

What's bad about my tag mirror is all of the bolded choices are not good. XD Either part of a series or links to books that I wouldn't recommend to anyone who doesn't like that particular genre. Sorry about that.

Ivyd I'm excited you chose Fingersmith from my library. One of all times favourite books! I don't think you'll be disappointed.

I'm going with an Agatha Christie mystery from souloftherose's library. I hope I'm interpreting the bold tag correctly!

Patrick (pbadeer) (message 41 on the sign up thread) - don't apologise! I've found plenty of options under the tag Books about Books, several of the ones which come up are already on my TBR pile, including the second in the Thursday Next series, and The Shadow of the Wind.

>62 cyderry: Sure, Chèli, that sounds like a good justification to me! (ETA: the number of tagged books doesn't matter, but I can understand that you might struggle when there are only 176 books in total to choose from.)

>64 TadAD: Hmm. I suspect it actually does take the percentage into account as well, but I'm not completely sure.

For the record, I should note that I've never seen the precise formula for how tag mirror is calculated; I'm explaining it to the best of my understanding, but there's no guarantee that I'm correct!

One thing I can say with certainty is that lorax is correct about it looking at other people's tags for your books. So it doesn't matter how you personally tag. That's one of the things I like best about tag mirror; it's not dependent on a single person's tagging habits, so you can get a good sense of someone's library even if they don't tag much themselves.

Remember, even if you can't find a promising book in the tag mirror assigned to you, you can always join someone else in a shared read.

But I've appreciated the way people have jumped in to provide suggestions for those who are struggling, so hopefully most of us will be able to find something good. :)

I've been trying for several months to think of a way to do some kind of "the person above/below you" challenge. It didn't occur to me to have a sign-up thread. Kudos, Zoe :-)

This opens up a whole new world and/or can of worms of challenge ideas for me.

Zoe, thanks for starting this challenge! I had no idea what a tag mirror was and I've been having fun looking at them.

I understand the requirement to choose from bold tags, since that shows the interests of the LT member -- theoretically, at any rate, though there are a few odd ones. But I'm wondering if the instruction to "avoid series tags" isn't overly restrictive? I looked at one tag mirror that had only 1 bolded tag other than series tags. And, anyway, if someone has a high concentration of a series in their library, isn't that a pretty good recommendation that it might be worth trying?

>68 wisechild: Karen, I'm really looking forward to Fingersmith, though I still have to get it, so I won't be reading it immediately. Your library was easy to choose from -- we've given a number of books similar ratings, and there are several books with high ratings that I want to read. Depending on how far I get this month, I may read more than 1 from your library.

>71 norabelle414: I'm glad you like the idea! I'll look forward to seeing your challenges.

>72 ivyd: Yeah, I should probably declare that a guideline rather than a rule. I just find that series tags are extremely over-represented among the bold tags, because the overall tag use is so limited that just having a few books with that tag seems "significant". I even have some trilogies that are bolded in my tag mirror.

>73 _Zoe_: Yes, that's true. However, some other tags also just lead into a series: for instance, in my tag mirror both "North Carolina" and "judge" are bolded, but only because I have most of Margaret Maron's mysteries in my library. It doesn't seem quite fair that someone could choose that series, because of those tags, but not choose Pullman's "His Dark Materials" or "Sally Lockhart" (also bolded), which I actually would recommend over the Margaret Maron books (though I obviously enjoy them). I was just thinking that it might give some additional options to people who are having trouble finding a book, but it is after all your challenge and you get to make the rules! And I do like this challenge!

Dragonfreak, I posted some suggestions, but the post seems to have evaporated. PM me if you want some suggestions -- there are some options in the British police procedurals and in journalism (which has some odd books in there making me wonder how they wound up with that tag!!)

> 62

I pulled it off of your "tag mirror", Cheli, and not your "tag cloud". It's still there under "usa", but today "usa" is not bolded. Should I still use this book or not, Zoe?

Here's the information from that entry:

People of the Book: A Novel
by Geraldine Brooks
3 tags on 4,745 copies
0.06% prevalence index

If not, it's back to the drawing board as I don't particularly feel like reading children's books at this time. Maybe later when I have my own grandkids, perhaps! :)

ETA: I found People of the Book in two of your collections, Cheli. They are: (1) Investigate (2) NonWishlist

ETA2: ...which leads me to another question. Does the "tag mirror" change from day to day?

> 71

It didn't occur to me to have a sign-up thread. Kudos, Zoe :-)

I agree with you, Nora. I have to give tons of credit to Zoe for this "person below me" idea. It sure has everyone hopping!!

>76 SqueakyChu: It should be based on the tag mirror, not the tag cloud or collections. I don't think the tag mirror changes significantly from day to day, but you never know.

I'm glad you like the person-below-me idea!

I guess I won't read The People of the Book since it is no longer bolded. Weird! I might have to skip this challenge, though. I can't find anything I'd like to read in Cheli's bolded tag mirror. :(

ETA: Hmmm...

Maybe I'll do a Nicholas Sparks or 909277::Laura Lippman...but I won't like it! :D

>79 SqueakyChu:: I think the neat thing about this challenge is that you might have to read something you normally wouldn't. You could end up liking it. :D

> 80

you might have to read something you normally wouldn't.

...and that, after all, is what TIOLI is all about.

I've thought of that, but what about the other books that I already own and want to read? They keep calling me!! :D

Okay. Okay.

*ponders what to do*

Well, if it's like other challenges, the situation when you first signed up stands. Sometimes the TIOLI is for a book few people have read, and the directions say that you go by the number of readers when you first sign up. If USA was bold when you signed up, Madeline, I don't know why it still wouldn't apply.

Perhaps I'd been imagining that the word "usa" was bold? !

Would others keep an eye on the bold words of the tag mirrors they are using to see if the words change from day to day? Something definitely weird is going on. Either that or my eyes just hoped it was bold.

Let me know what you all are finding. What I will read eventually will depend on your discoveries about the bolded words. I'll just hang out here for a few days (or months...or years!).

Weird, Madeline - I just checked and sure enough, "Toronto" is no longer bold in MickyFine's cloud/tagmirror thingie.

Toronto" is no longer bold in MickyFine's cloud/tagmirror thingie.

Hooray!!!!!!!! I'm not crazy after all.

I'm reading People of the Book even if Cheli says it's not in her collection. It *was* in her tag mirror!

I say that whatever you first noticed should stand. There has to be a limit to second-guessing ourselves about what is bold, what was bold and what is still bold. It's hard enough as it stands!!

I had the same issue- yesterday "Nobel Prize" was bolded in Smiler69's tags, today it is not. I'm going to go ahead and read The Good Earth as I indicated yesterday. I can't keep up with constantly changing bold-ness.

The constantly changing boldness can be good, though. If we don't find a bolded word we like today, we can check back tomorrow - as there will be different book choices!

Thanks for the suggestions Madeline and Zoe, but I think I'll either try to match someone else's book (I believe I matched one already), or I'll just skip this one. I always seriously overbook myself trying to read books that are either on my shelf or have been on my wishlist for a while so at this point, I need to find challenges to match my tbr pile, and not the other way 'round.

#63 Thanks for the suggestion on Bridge of Birds it sounds like something I might really enjoy. Your review certainly swayed me and I've added it to my wishlist.

Zoe, can you go into your challenge on the wiki and decide what to do with the multiple comments?

(1) Some say "not bolded". That should be okay if the bolded words change daily (which several people say they do).

(2) Cheli wants to kick my selection out of this challenge. :D I'm resisting because "usa" was a bolded word yesterday, and I did find that book in a tag mirror list of hers.

Please note: I'm posting this with humor not with malice.

>83 SqueakyChu:: the day I signed up I checked my own tag mirror (the 250 setting) and both science fiction and sf were definitely bold at that time.

(I see the book of mine magkia chose, Mistborn, has an error message on the wiki, but I am positive those tags were bold in my mirror on signup day.)

ETA a day later: and lindapanzo's "chicago" tag was bold the first time I looked, but later the same day it wasn't. (I'm happy I was able to find one of her books set in Chicago under the "baseball" tag.)

> 91

Great minds think alike! (you and me!) Ha!!

Zoe, do you think you could post a more complicated challenge next time? :P

ETA: Your separate thread is going to end up longer than the main thread!

*starts looking for the thread police*

Okay, for the issue of bold tags, I'm going to say that you can remove the comment and leave the book on the wiki if you are satisfied that it really was bold (for example, Megi53 confirms that science fiction was bold in her could the first day, so that's good). I think initially there were a lot of people missing the point about bold.

I'm not at all convinced that the tag mirrors change daily in normal circumstances, though. Megi53 added 20 books on March 28, which reflects a 17% change in her library, so in that particular case it's not surprising.

One thing to keep in mind is that the tags can be bold in one size of the tag mirror and not bold in another, so that may account for some of the apparent changes. I've been checking all sizes before leaving a comment.

So, in summary: if you've received a comment about not bold, ask yourself how sure you are that you checked the right tag mirror carefully. If you're convinced that the tag was bold in the right person's tag mirror, then remove the comment.

As for the issue of the book that Chèli doesn't have at all... I think I'll leave you two to fight that one out among yourselves! ;) I personally have never known the tag mirror to list books that aren't in the person's catalogue at all, but I guess you never know. If you are convinced that it's happened, you might want to report it as a bug.

Zoe, do you think you could post a more complicated challenge next time? :P

Hehe, that could probably be arranged.... ;)

As it turns out,we have nothing over which to fight! :)

"USA" is bold again today. Go figure! And this link proves that People of the Book is in two of cyderry's collections (Investigate, Wishlist). See where it says member? There it also says "cyderry".

*back to my book*

P.S. In my RL job as quality auditor, documentation is everything! :)

Argh... So my Mistborn is okay now? HOnestly, it was bolded, as Megi53 confirms.

Madeline,

My apologies... I rarely look at the wishlist/Investigate collections - those are books where I saw someone else's review and thought it sounded interesting and might want to read sometime down the road. Especially the investigate collection is a book that I haven't definitely decided I want to read.

> 97

Cheli, you know what's really funny? You *also* chose a book for an April TIOLI challenge by the same author -Geraldine Brooks.

I've already started reading People of the Book and seriously like this author's writing. I did have the good fortune to see the author at one of the National Book Festivals. She had been talking about her book March then, and, even though I wasn't interested in that book (about the Civil War), I did find her to be an intelligent and interesting speaker. Now I'm thinking I'd probably like to read more of her work.

Let me know how you like Year of Wonders when you finish it.

This challenge is a blast - so many variables. I was lucky, I went to Goddesspt2's tag mirror and chose a book right away from her bold African American tag. I've checked a couple of times since and it seems to stay consistantly bold so my book is set!

I am happy as a lark. I got to use tanglewood's tag mirror, selected books about books and immediately was able to select a book I have and have wanted to read for some time---Howard's End is on the Landing by Susan Hill. Yay!

I'll sign up, just because I'm so confused, but I have no idea who TPAM is. Hope you like fantasy!

I'm glad people are having fun :).

Humouress, did you post on the sign-up thread?

This is a great challenge! I've been having fun looking over ivyd's tag mirror and her books. I may do more than one, as we have a lot of books in common, but I am starting with The Cruelest Month by Louise Penny ("cozy" tag), which is #3 in her Gamache series, and which will then allow me to participate in the challenge to read the 4th book in a series - thus clearing two books off my TBR shelves :-)

I'm going for Lost in a Good Book from Patrick (pbadeer's) Books about Books tag, because I've just read the first in that series and this is no. 2. There were a couple of others under that tag which I've got in my TBR pile and would like to read also, but I see that they are ones that are in Patrick's wishlist or TBR collection rather than ones that he has read. I didn't see anything in the 'rules' for this challenge about limiting your book choice to one which the owner of the tag mirror has actually read, but I guess it makes for better conversations if that is the case.

I like the randomness. Skimming chinquapin's profile, I was concerned there'd be no overlap of interests, but turns out she has a prominent collection of children's books, some of which bring back memories, and one of which, The Westing Game, I happen to have on hand because an acquaintance recommended it a few years ago. Now I'm looking forward to actually reading it.

Zoe - this challenge was fun - searching through someone's tags for something suitable was really interesting. I got LizzieD who tends to read very different books from me, but I was interested in breaking out of my present reading rut. I've made two choices from LizzieD's extensive collection - South Riding and a Nero Wolfe novel. I'm looking forward to reading them both.

Zoe, what can we do if we want to join in your challenge but (1) either don't like our choices of books at all (i.e. like Ilana and myself) or (2) honestly cannot tell whether or not a specific word is bolded? My eyes are going crazy from trying to figure this out!

After everyone has done his/her initial sign-up, could we have a "second round" to maybe find something of interest by trying again?

>102 _Zoe_: : Well there you are; I thought this was the sign-up thread! Will do, now, thanks.

This is pretty cool as I got my Secret Santa! I selected Calm's translated tag and picked Shadow of the Wind, which I have and want to read. Also, I think I'm going to start using the translated tag myself.

>104 gennyt: Right, no rule that it has to be read, but you may prefer to pick one that's read anyway.

>107 SqueakyChu: Well, the first option is to join in for a shared read with someone else's pick.

But if it's just a matter of deciding what's bold, I'm sure plenty of people would be happy to help. Here's a list of some of cyderry's non-series bold tags (or at least, I don't think they're series): Aaron Burr (Jefferson's Vendetta, A Magnificent Catastrophe), bibliomystery, Charleston (South of Broad by Pat Conroy), cozy mystery, Pride and Prejudice, microwave (cookbooks), historical romance, regency romance.

A general tip for deciding what's bolded is to look at a few other tags of the same size. I've also generally found that a bolded tag can't be mistaken for an unbolded tag, but only the other way around. So generally, if there's any doubt, it's because it's not actually bold but just big.

I would first ask everyone for recommendations for the major categories that you've rejected as not being the sort you like: cozy mystery, regency/historical romance. Does anyone else see any books there that might appeal to those who aren't fans of the genres? For example, lorax suggested Bridge of Birds for Ilana, and Ilana did end up adding it to her wishlist even though she's not likely to get to it this month. I personally liked Crocodile on the Sandbank even though I don't usually read mysteries, because I do enjoy nineteenth-century archaelogy.

So, a new challenge for everyone: Find Madeline a book to read!

I do like the suggestion of doing a second round (and it could be done easily, by looking at the person two down from you), but I don't want to use it as a way out. At least not yet....

I agree with you about not letting me have "a way out". You're really right! :)

I already read South of Broad which I loved, by the way. There's nothing else I saw that I'd want to touch. Isn't that terrrible? So people, help me*!!!!!!!

Ay de mi!

*By the way, I *despise* reading classics, mysteries and romance. ...and I don't want to read a cookbook!!

Oh, and what about her Henry II tag? There's some straight historical fiction there: Time and Chance, When Christ and His Saints Slept, A Proud Taste for Scarlet and Miniver.

But also--didn't you really like Dracula when you read it just a few months ago? I'm not quite convinced that you hate all classics!

No Henry II! No English history!! No Middle Ages!!!

Dracula was a fluke! I only read it because I'd read literary fiction a la The Historian and became interested in Dracula. I've never before or since read another vampire book.

I *loved* reading Bram Stoker's Dracula! I admit it. :)

> What about her 999 Challenge? There are fantasy and YA books in that one.

>114 SqueakyChu: See, you can go outside your comfort zone and love it! What about "no more refusing to branch out"? ;)

>115 Tanglewood: I think that's in the tag cloud, not the tag mirror? But sometimes it's possible to find a book in the catalogue and then figure out what obscure tag it might fall under....

There is no 999 Challenge in her tag *mirror*. I'm not a big fan of fantasy or YA, although, if gretaly pressed, I might concede in reading one.

> 166

I'll "branch out" if you find something that I *want* to read!!

>118 SqueakyChu: I'll keep trying... hopefully other people will help too!

> 119

Is Baltimore a bold image? If so, I might look for another Laura Lippman novel. The first one I read (What the Dead Know), I hated, though. :(

I would read The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks
by Rebecca Skloot, but I probably wouldn't be able to get hold of it. (bolded "Baltimore", I believe)

I think I remember Baltimore being bold, but I seem to have broken Chèli's profile by going there too much, because it won't load anymore right now :(

I seem to have broken Chèli's profile

Thank goodness!! Now I can go grocery shopping... :)

Opps, I was looking in the tag cloud not the mirror for myself too. Luckily, I was able to find The Shadow of the Wind under mystery (translated isn't there).

I hope you like it Tanglewood.

I'm not sure if the tag mirror is working properly as trying the other numbers didn't seem to change the number of tags but I've picked The Kite Runner by Khaled Hosseini from jtelling's library (Bolded = Afghanistan).

Okay, I've confirmed that Baltimore is bold in Chèli's tag mirror. Now I just hope you can manage to get your hands on a copy of The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks!

Phew. Any more crises?

Okay, I've confirmed that Baltimore is bold in Chèli's tag mirror.

Hooray!!

Now I just hope you can manage to get your hands on a copy of The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks!

I've got one! Very graciously, CitizenJoyce offered to send me her copy. That's a relief because I signed up for it at the library today where I turned out to be #353 on the queue for that book! At that rate, I would probably receive it sometime in 2012. :/

LOL, Madeline... I'm on the waiting list for one book in my system that has only a single copy -- and 95 people waiting for it. Given that the lending period is 3 weeks, that adds up to more than five years, I think! By which point, we'll all be able to pick up the paperback for a penny on Amazon...

> 127

Post the name of the book here and complain about it. Who knows? Maybe you'll be able to work out a book trade. I just did - in less than 24 hours! :D

Madeline, I'm glad you finally found something that you want to read. Sorry it was so difficult.

Other books you might think about are Perfection Salad: Women and Cooking at the Turn of the Century and The Power of Half: One Family's Decision to Stop Taking and Start Giving Back. The library has Perfection Salad and I'd lend you my power of half if you're interested. I'll have to find it.

Sorry it was so difficult.

Nothing to be sorry about. That's what makes it a "challenge"!

Thanks for your offer, Cheli. I'll keep your suggestions in mind, but will defer for now and then move on to other challenges once I have your own challenge conquered with the book that Joyce is sending me.

ETA: I just wishlisted The Power of Half. That seems like a good recommendation for me.

*pops over to Cheli's Operation Paperback thread to add a book to the wiki*

The troops thank you , Madeline.

Okay, I've figured out a way to incorporate Madeline's suggestion without making the challenge any easier!

Once you've completed a book from a bold tag in the tag mirror of the person below you, then you can move on to the person below them and repeat the process. But don't list any books from subsequent tag mirrors until your first one is completed!

> 132

But don't list any books from subsequent tag mirrors until your first one is completed!

Ha!

ETA: Gotta say I love it!

>jtelling : Assassin's Apprentice is a good choice - one of my favourites, too. Hobb does a beautiful job of telling the story of a boy growing up on the outskirts of the royal family, and weaves mystery, magic and intrigue through her tale. But it is the first of a trilogy, so if you like it (which I hope you do), you'll have two more to read.

I have 3 wonderful options from the bold Mystery tag in Brenzi's tag mirror

The Shadow of the Wind
The Moonstone
The Beekeeper's Apprentice

Wonderful list to pick from and, thanks to Borders' big sale, I now own them all.

I see that several people have completed books for this challenge already. Is anyone planning to go on to the next tag mirror?

I probably won't have time to get through multiple books this month, but I'm thinking of unofficially continuing with the challenge after that because I think it's a fun way to choose books.

I'm thinking of unofficially continuing with the challenge after that because I think it's a fun way to choose books.

Zoe, what about creating a different challenge next month while still utilizing "the person under me" concept. I really love it! It adds a whole new dimension to the TIOLI challenges.

I'm counting on norabelle to do one, based on her comment in #71 ;). I may stick with the idea as well, but I still have no idea what my challenge will be for next month. We'll see! I'm glad you like the idea :D

Aye aye, Captain!

EBT1002, I'm quite interested in reading 'The Sweetness at the Bottom of the Pie' - availability and time permitting. Our reading is so different, do you think that's a good place to start?

> 140 I haven't actually read The Sweetness at the Bottom of the Pie yet but based on the recommendation that made me put it in my TBR stack, it does seem like it would be a good one for you --- a little outside your usual genres but not too big a stretch.
Out Stealing Horses is also a pretty quick read and would be a stretch but is something you might enjoy.

humouress, you might investigate Mary Reilly by Valerie Martin. I read it a few years ago but it's a fun one. It's the story of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde told from the perspective of the maid (who, I believe, has one line in the original: a scream). Given your interest in fantasy, etc., this might be a good one for you.

>143 EBT1002: : Thanks. I'll look out for them at our library.

I know there are folk here who really like The Sweetness At the Bottom of the Pie, but I'm not one of them. I kind of like the girl scientist, but found it hard to believe that she had a Nobel class lab in her home. The kicker though was that the children were so thoroughly self centered and hateful to each other and the father so unparental. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

#145, I'm probably in this camp. I was amused and mildly entertained by the books, but underwhelmed by any sign of real evolution in the characters, especially the evident hatred that exists between the children. Even allowing for a child's eye view of the relationship, it's disturbing that it's so matter-of-fact, particularly in the third book.

I've just finished my "mirror read", Jude Morgan's Charlotte and Emily, about the Brontes. Read it under the title of The Taste of Sorrow, the UK edition.

I chose The Shadow of the Wind. It's mesmerizing. Turns out I've had it on my shelf for years but forgot about it so....now I own two copies. I'm finally reading it though, thanks to this TIOLI challenge. Yay!

147: I once believed that LibraryThing would save me from duplicates, but alas I still have stacks of books to be entered.

I'm finally back with the glad realization that The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Society, which I just finished is in squeakychu's tag mirror, Early Reviewers, and so I can list it in this challenge after all - and I did!

> 149

Hooray!

I finished Fingersmith, chosen from wisechild's library. What a great book! I'm so glad I finally got to it!

Ivy, I'm glad you liked it. It is indeed a great book. We had perhaps the best book club meeting ever yesterday when we discussed it.

>151 ivyd: YEY! I'm thrilled you liked it! And I'm thrilled it spurred more people to pick it up too. I've also read Tipping the Velvet and Little Stranger, but Fingersmith is by far her best work out of those three.

On another note, I think I may have to change my selection from souloftherose's library. I was going to try to read Destination Unknown for the Agatha Christie tag, but I also got Blameless from the library which I will have to return soon (it works with the steampunk tag). I'll leave both of them up for now, but I've probably overbooked myself yet again.

I'm sneaking in with 7 hours to go - I've just finished my TIOLI tag mirror challenge from Norabelle's tags and read The Magician's Nephew by C. S. Lewis. (Narnia was one of her bold tags). It was interesting and I might have to re-read the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe some time soon - it's been 30 years!

This is a great example of TIOLI stretching my reading - I wouldn't have picked this up for years if not for this challenge. Thanks Zoe.

Shoot, I failed. Just didn't have time to read this month. :(

Fortunately, TIOLI is not a pass-fail test, so no harm was done! :D

This time of year tends to be busy, busy, busy. Enjoy the spring, Milda!

>154 cushlareads: You're very welcome!

I didn't even manage to finish my own book for this challenge, but I'm enjoying it and will fortunately be able to fit it in a May TIOLI.

157: Maybe this could be a TIOLI: Read a book that you didn't read for a previous TIOLI.

> 158

Maybe this could be a TIOLI: Read a book that you didn't read for a previous TIOLI.

Now *that* is funny!

I like that idea!

159,160: December maybe. Last chance TIOLI.

Then we should match TIOLI challenges instead of / as well as books?