Sibyx Knows November's Not for Ninnies

Posey and my last rose, the petals just fell off in the last few days. And our mountain - I really do live right under it, see it several times a day unless it is wreathed in clouds.

Guide to symbols
♬ audio
✔ plus # - off my sagging shelves/monthly goal of 10
VM Virago-of-the-month
GR= group read
--------------------------------
***November Current Reads***
✔ The Sea, The Sea Iris Murdoch f
Swallowing the Sea: On Writing Lee Upton craft/nf
✔ Arctic Dreams Barry Lopez nf
VMC November/GR
Done
Audio (on loan):
---watch this space----
Ongoing
SEPTEMBER,OCTOBER New Yorkers.
---------------------------------
On Hold
The Barrakee Mystery Arthur Upfield (SEL library) mys
♬Dandelion Wine Ray Bradbury (postponed for a better listening venue than car)
PUT DOWN FOR GOOD
The Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox Maggie O'Farrell f

Finished in November
109. ✔#1 Serious Men Manu Joseph f ****
110. ✔#2 The Demolished Man Alfred Bester sf ****
111.✔#3 Nobody's Angel Thomas McGuane f ****
112. The Disappearance Phillip Wylie sf/dystopic GR ****1/2
113. ♬ ✔#4The Broom of the System David Foster Wallace f ****1/2
114. Mrs. Palfrey at the Claremont Elizabeth Taylor Virago GR ****1/2 (reread)
115. ✔#5 Sacred Band David Anthony Durham Bk 3 The Acacia Trilogy **** (for the series)
116. ✔#6Catherine Asaro Primary Inversion sf ***1/2
117. AUGUST New Yorkers
118. ✔#7 Downbelow Station C.J. Cherryh sf ****
119. ✔#8The Lies of Locke Lamora Scott Lynch fantasy ***
120. ✔#9 Needle Hal Clement sf ***1/2

Best of 2012....
January
✔The Name of the Wind Patrick Rothfuss fantasy *****
✔She Drove Without Stopping Jaimy Gordon contemp fiction ****1/2
February:
The Chanur series: C.J.Cherryh ****1/2 scifi
March:
✔Packing For Mars Mary Roach science *****
♬Life Keith Richards memoir *****
April
✔Infinite Jest David Foster Wallace contemp fiction *****
May
James Tiptree, Jr: The Double Life of Alice B. Sheldon Julie Phillipsbio *****
✔The Call Yannick Murphy ***** (See May Commentary)
June
✔The Rings of Saturn W.G. Sebald ***** somewhere between F and NF
✔Among Others Jo Walton*****fantasy
July
✔✔✔The Castings Trilogy Pamela Freeman****1/2 Fantasy
The Great Age of British Watercolour: 1750-1880 Andrew Wilton***** NF - art.
August
The Sound of a Wild Snail Eating Elisabeth Tova Bailey nf ****1/2 NF
Keeping it Real Justina Robson sf/fantasy blend
September
Round Mountain Castle Freeman ss *****
Yoga For People Who Can't Be Bothered To Do It Geoff Dyer travel/memoir *****
October
✔Island of Vice Richard Zacks ****1/2
✔The Wedding Group Elizabeth Taylor ****

November Resolution
I will stick to my resolve BUY no more than one or two new books and ONLY for a) a group read or b) towards continuing an already-in-progress series. Gifts or books coming in from PBS are what they are.

October
99. ♬ Island of Vice Richard Zacks ****1/2
100.#1 ✔The Wedding Group Elizabeth Taylor VMC/GR ****
101.#2 ✔ Intimate: An American Family Portrait Paisley Rekdal memoir ****1/2
102. #3 ✔ How to Live Safely in a Science Fictional Universe Charles Yu sf ***1/2
103. #4 ✔ Crystal Soldier Sharon Lee Steve Miller (Book One in The Crystal Variation).
104. #5✔ Crystal Dragon (book 2 in The Crystal Variation) Sharon Lee Steve Miller
105.#6 ✔Why I Hate Flying: Tales for the Tormented Traveler Henry Mintzberg ***
106. #7 ✔ Balance of Trade Book 3 in The Crystal Variation Sharon LeeSteve Miller****
107. #8 ✔ Jar City Arnaldur Indridason mys ***1/2
108. #9 ✔ The Riddle of the Wren Charles de Lint fantasy/YA ***1/2

October Statistics
Total: 10
Men: 5
Women: 2
Man/Woman writing together: 1 pair (three books, however)
Classic fiction: 1
Virago: 1
Memoir/natural history: 1
Humorous: 1
SF: 3
Mys: 1
Fantasy: 1
YA: 1
New (to me) Authors: 6
Group Read: 1
From PBS: 0
Bought & read right away:
Library: 1
Audio: 1
Off my shelf: 9
Months of NYers: 0
Ditched: 1

October Reflections
What an all-over-the-place month - lots of 1 onlies in the Stats. More men than women, but also three novels that are written by a man/woman pair, rare enough. The miscellaneousness of my choices reflect mostly a reluctance to dive too deeply into anything, although I have been listening, in the car, to The Broom of the System by David Foster Wallace and that may be all the literary depth a person can take in one month. I'm about half-way. Jar City and the Miller-Lee books are direct LT recommendations. The Zack wins the 'best non-fiction book' over the Rekdal (which might actually be the 'better' book in a literary sense) by virtue of the thrill of having a relative in it.) and the Taylor was an easy win for the 'best' fiction given that it was the only non-genre piece of fiction I read, and was, as such, far better written than anything else I read in November. That said - I am loving Taylor more and more - love the Centennial Virago celebration of her writing. The Lee-Miller duo write seriously fun space opera. And it was fun to sample early Lint. A lot of folks disliked the Yu - it wasn't really SF at all, but meta-fiction, so it was somewhat mis-represented.

October Acquisitions
Underworld Don deLillo from free shelf Richmond Library
Island of Vice Richard Zack nf - new - my own copy
River of Doubt Candice Millard Gift
The Disappearance Philip Wylie Bought used for GR
Swallowing the Sea Lee Upton writing craft, gift
Meridian Kathleen Jesme poetry, gift
The Vital System C.M. Burroughs poetry, gift
Total: 7, Bought new: 1, Bought used 1, Gifts: 4, Free - 1

In September I was at about 100 books acquired and 98 read.
In October I am at 106 acquired and 107 read. Up by one. So not bad, bought only two, and only one was bought new.

I know that I have divested myself of at least four or five books this month. Several to PBS, others to here and there. I haven't been very good about listing the books I get rid of. It feels too hard, but maybe I can figure out a way.

2012 So Far

January
1. The New Yorker: December 2011, 3 issues (one double)
2. ✔ Coventry Helen Humphreys F *****
3. The Reavers of Skaith Leigh Brackett Book 3 SF ****1/2 for the trilogy
4. Ender's Game Orson Scott Card SF ****1/2
5. Ender's Shadow Orson Scott Card SF ****
6. ✔Bad Magic Stephan Zielinski Urban fantasy***
7. The Moon Pool A. Merritt Adventure/fantasy/SF classic 1919 ****
8. ♬ Wuthering Heights Emily Bronte /Reread F
9. ✔The Name of the Wind Patrick Rothfuss ***** Fantasy
10. ♬The Man Who Loved China Simon Winchester history ****
11.✔She Drove Without Stopping Jaimy Gordon F **** 1/2
12. ✔One Way of Love Gamel Woolsey ****1/4 Virago fiction
13. The New Yorker: January, 5 issues
14. The Life and Letters of Tofu Roshi Susan Ichi Su Moon***** humor

February
15. ♬ The Mistress's Daughter A.M. Homes memoir ****
16. The Pride of Chanur C.J. Cherryh Bk 1 SF ****1/2
17. ✔Mrs Ames E. F. Benson F ****
18. ♬ Nation Terry Pratchett F (alternate uni)
19. Chanur's Legacy C.J. Cherryh Bk 4 SF ****1/2
20. The Thief of Time: Philosophical Essays on Procrastination Chrisoula Andreou, ed NF ****
21. Chanur's Venture C.J. Cherryh Bk 2 SF ****
22. ♬ The Greater Journey: Americans in Paris David McCullough NF ****
23.God's Philosophers James Hannam NF ****
24.The Kif Strike Back C.J. Cherrryh Bk 3 SF ****1/2
25.Chanur's Homecoming C.J. Cherryh bk 4 sf ****1/2
26. ✔The Magician King Lev Grossman fantasy ****
27. Dave Barry's Complete Guide to Guys Dave Barry ****

March Reading:
28. ✔Iris John Bayley Memoir ****1/2
29. February New Yorkers: 3 issues
30. The Highly Sensitive Person Elaine Aron Pysch/Self Help ***3/4
31. The Hidden Life of Deer Elizabeth Marshall Thomas ****1/2 Natural History
32. ✔Something Rotten Jasper Fforde mys ****
33. Packing For Mars Mary Roach space travel *****
34. Bossypants Tina Fey memoir ***1/2
35. ♬ Life Keith Richards autobio *****
36. March New Yorkers.

April
37. ✔Palladian Elizabeth Taylor f, virago ***1/2 (Virago per month)
38. Arjun and the Good Snake Rick Harschmemoir **** (LT author)
39. Her Smoke Rose Up Forever James Tiptree, Jr ss-sf **** (Tiptree gala)
40. ✔Infinite Jest David Foster Wallace contemp F *****(TBR shelves)
41. ✔The Wise Man's Fear Patrick Rothfuss ****1/2 (TBR shelves)

May
42. Nothing Can Make Me Do This David Huddle novel ****1/2
43.♬The Path Between the Seas David McCullough audio ****1/2
44. James Tiptree, Jr: The Double Life of Alice B. Sheldon Julie Phillips bio ****1/2
45. ♬ ✔ Nightwoods Charles Frazier fiction ***1/2
46. April New Yorkers (4)
47. The Girl Who Played With Fire Stieg Larsson (library)****
48.The Girl Who Kicked the Hornet's Nest Stieg Larsson library
****1/2 for the whole trilogy.
49. ✔ Nobody's Business Penelope Gilliatt May Virago pick SS ****1/2
50. Up the Walls of the World James Tiptree, Jr sf ****
51. ✔ A Rule Against Murder Louise Penny mys#1 of TBR TEN***1/2
52. ✔The Call Yannick Murphy #2 of TBR *****
53. ♬The Cloud Forest Peter Matthiesen travel ****

June
54. MAY New Yorkers (4)
55. #3.✔Kalila and Dimna: Selected Fables of Bidpai retold by Ramsay Wood****
56. #4.✔House of Suns Alastair Reynolds sf ****1/2
57. #5 ✔ The Rings of Saturn W.G. Sebald ***** (A Janet Memorial selection too)
58. #6 ✔The Persimmon Tree and Other Stories Marjorie Barnard VM ****
59. #7 ✔ Innocent Mage Karen Miller***1/4
60. ♬ The Inheritance of Loss Kiran Desai ***1/2, should be a four, but for the dog.
61. Among Others Jo Walton****1/2 or is it *****?
62. #9✔ Awakened Mage Karen Miller Vol 2 Kingmaker, Kingbreaker ***1/4
63. #10 ✔ The Swan Thieves Elizabeth Kostova ****
64. #11 ✔ Blood Ties Pamela Freeman Bk 1 The Castings Trilogyreread****

July
65.#1 The Great Age of British Watercolour 1750-1880 Andrew Wilton art history *****
66. #2✔ Deep Water Pamela Freeman fantasy ****
67.♬ The Wee Free Men Terry Pratchett Discworld, fantasy. ***1/2
68.#3 ✔ Full Circle Pamela Freeman The Castings Trilogy Bk 3 ****
69.#4 ✔The Sword of Lankor Howard L. Cory fantasy *
70. A Discovery of Witches Deborah Harknessvampire/ Library ***1/2
71.#5 ✔Angel Elizabeth Taylor Virago ****1/2
72. #6✔ A Geography of Time Robert V. Levine nf, sociology ****
73. #7✔ The Monkey's Raincoat Robert Crais mys **** (Janet memorial read)
74.✔8 The Adventures of Alyx Joanna Russ SF ****1/2

August
75! Frost, You Say? A Yankee Monologue Marshall Dodge ***** down east humor
76. Our Mutual Friend Charles Dickens ****1/2 f/classic/group
77. #1✔ The Shutter of Snow Emily Holmes Coleman Virago-of-the-month ****1/2
78. Consider Phlebas Iain Banks sf ****1/2
79. The Sound of a Wild Snail Eating Elisabeth Tova Bailey nf ****1/2
80.#2 ✔Cooking With Fernet Branca James Hamilton-Paterson ****
81. Keeping it Real Justina Robson sf/fantasy ****1/2 sf/antasy
82.#3 ✔ The Prefect Alastair Reynolds #1 in Revelation Space series ****1/2
83.#4 ✔The Time of Our Singing Richard Powers ****
84. #5✔Galactic North Alastair Reynolds sf ****
85. #6✔Started Early Took My Dog Kate Atkinson mys ****

September
86. ♬ The Tenant of Wildfell Hall Anne Bronte **** classic
87. The Art of Time in Fiction Joan Silber writing/craft ***1/2 or maybe ****
88. ✔#1 River of Gods Ian McDonald sf/cyber ****
89. ✔#2 Cream of Kohlrabi Floyd Skloot ss ****
90. ✔#3 The Soul of Kindness Elizabeth Taylor ****1/2
91. ✔#4 Round Mountain Castle Freeman ss *****
92. Yoga for People Who Can't Be Bothered To Do It Geoff Dyer travel/memoir *****
93. Finished June New Yorkers
94. ✔#5 The Turkish Gambit Boris Akunin mys ***1/2
96. Chasm City Alastair Reynolds sf (part of Revelation Space series) ****
97. Smallbone Deceased Michael Gilbert mys (SEL library) ****1/2
98. Finished July New Yorkers

Series
2012 Record of Series I'm Reading or Own, Am Hoarding, Waiting for the Next One or have actually FINISHED this year!
Fantasy and SF
1.DONE The Castings Trilogy Pamela Freemanvol 1Blood Ties, vol2Deep Water (current), vol3 Full Circle
2. NEW IN 2012The Kingkiller Chronicle Patrick Rothfuss vol 1 The Name of the Wind, vol2. Wise Man's Fear vol3. Awaiting next one!
3. Rain Wild Chronicles Robin Hobb vol1. Dragon Keeper, vol2.Dragon Haven, vol3.City of Dragons, vol4. (not out yet) Blood of Dragons(hoarding)
4.A Song of Ice and Fire George R. R. Martin vol1. A Game of Thrones vol2.A Clash of Kings,vol3. A Storm of Swords, vol4.A Feast For Crows vol 5. A Dance With Dragons (hoarding) vol6. Winds of Winter (not out yet), vol7. A Dream of Spring (not out yet)
5. DONE! Revelation Space Alastair Reynolds The Prefect, Diamond Dogs, Turquoise Days, Monkey Suit, Chasm City, Revelation Space, Redemption Ark, Absolution Gap,,Galactic North
6. NEW IN 2012Eric John Stark Leigh Brackett The Secret of Sinharat, People of the Talisman, Outlaw of Mars (have), The Ginger Star, The Hounds of Skaith, The Reavers of Skaith
7. Miles Vorkosigan - Lois McMaster Bujold - won't list but #15 is out, FINAL book in series. Don't have yet.
8.NEW IN 2012Consider Phlebas Iain Banks First chronologically in the The Culture Next up: Player of Games - this is a reread.
9. The Acacia Trilogy 1.Acacia, 2.The Other Lands, 3.Sacred Band need to quickly reacquaint myself with the story line of the first two before starting third.
10.NEW IN 2012 Quantum Gravity series 6 books Justina Robson - Keeping it Real, Next up:
11.NEW IN 2012 Catherine Asaro The Skolian Empire series 5 books. Primary Inversion Next up:

Mysteries
1.Inspector Armand Gamache Louise Penny Read: A Fatal Grace, Cruellest Month,Still Life Rule Against Murder Not read: A Beautiful Mystery, A Trick of the Light, The Brutal Telling, Bury Your Dead (in no particular order.....)
2. Jackson Brodie Kate Atkinson Case Histories, One Good Turn, When Will There Be Good News?, Started Early Took My Dog (hoarding)
3. NEW IN 2012! 3. Inspector Hazlerigg Michael Gilbert so far #4 Smallbone Deceased
4. NEW IN 2012Kriminalpolis Erlendur Sveinsson Analdur Indridason Jar City 2 more in series.

Wow, am I first? Lovely photos! Happy November!

I got behind and missed the end of your last thread, will just start again here, I guess.

Wow, I am second. Happy new thread Lucy :)

How lovely to have a mountain.

Lovely new thread, Lucy!

Dear Posey. Very nice mountain. And into November.

Loved your photos of your Halloween visitors. I just ran across a copy of Harp of the Grey Rose by de Lint, and enjoyed it a great deal, even though it followed a formula more than his later work does. I haven't read Riddle of the Wren, but am on the lookout for it.

Happy November and happy new thread, Lucy! What a great mountain.

Happy New Thread - and right on time!
I'm glad that you have a mountain too! I'm putting in a request now for a winter snow scene.

Thanks everyone (except the rude spammer) for showing up so early. Lots more to do to get this thread up and running, but I'm trying to alternate that with doing the things I am supposed to be doing......

Peggy there IS snow on that mountain and I took the photo about a week ago.

Love the picture of Posey.

Lucy, I can't believe that is what you get to see everytime you look out your window. Breathtaking :)

I noticed that The Name of the Wind was one of your favourite reads in 2012. I have that one waiting for me so hopefully I can read it sooner rather than later.

I don't see the mountain when I look out the window, sadly, as we are on the same side of the valley as it is - however - I do see it every time I drive along the road down in the valley and also I can see the top when I take my afternoon walk, it's sort of a goal - can't see the whole thing, but at least the top and whether it has snow on it or is in the clouds or whatever. I do see Mount Ellen which is the next peak to the south as soon as I get down into the big field by the river, lovely view of that, but it's not as 'exciting' looking a peak as Camel's Hump, or Mt. Mansfield's long peak - lying down face --- forehead, nose and chin. Hmmmm I need to go find a photo.

Happy new thread Lucy and some lovely photos of Posey, a posy and your mountain.

Congratulations on the new thread, Lucy! Charming photo of Posey and your last rose, and your mountain - what a beautiful place to live!

I enjoyed both Name of the Wind and Wise Man's Fear. Looking forward to the next one.

Hi Lucy and Happy New Thread. Love the top pictures. Posey is a doll. I also really enjoyed the pics of your daughter on the last thread in her Halloween getups just now when I went to catch up on all I missed. Jar City has been on my wishlist for quite some time, but I've taken note of your comment about the bad English translation and just now went to check that they have the French translation at the library, which they do, so that's the version I'll go with when I get there eventually in hopes that translator did a better job.

I have to ask, having seen it other places—PBS? I just know it's not the broadcasting station in this case. Or is it?

Checking in on your new thread--lovely pictures and great October summary. I'm working on mine right now.

So this is what darling Posey got up to while we were out stapling up the NO SHOOTING/PEOPLE LIVE NEARBY perimeter signs. We allow hunting but not anywhere near the house and you can put up these temporary signs. I've washed her oncet but she still stinks, so there will be a bathing episode #2 ere long.

Ilana - PBS refers to Paperback Book Swap - there must be something like it in Canada - there are a couple of other similar set-ups here too. I post books there that I've read and don't wish to keep that are in good condition and that I think will go quickly and I post requests for books I'm in no hurry to get - and always check to see if they have anything I'm interested in that's been around for a bit.

I'm looking forward to it Roni. I really like looking at and reflecting on my own reading and find it equally interesting to read the reflections of others here. I am also finding it helps me choose books in a more balanced way and also to be realistic (wellll, more realistic) about acquiring books.

You will love those Rothfuss books Joe - they are fantasy at a very very high level. I am more and more aware every year how fortunate I am to get to live in a place like this.

So was the pic taken by your nanny-cam? So cute! Oh jeeze, there's that "cute" word again. Poverty of thought.

She was out there with me -- 'We' today being mainly Posey n' me for somehow this has become my job to get done -- found the poo or whatever while I was thwacking the stapler onto the signs and into the trees. She did stick sort of close, but only sorta. I mean, I did more or less keep her in my line of vision, and I have a pretty good idea when it happened - most of the signs go along these two 'roads' in the woods, but then you go off trail and I think it happened there. In fact, it is a serious deer yard in there, so maybe it was just a huge mound of deer poo.

Problem being, Posey IS cute. It is an appropriate use of the word. You are absolved of any word usage crime.

Oh dear! Bad Posey! How is she with her baths? Daisy protests hugely but luckily seems to have missed out on the rolling in unpleasant things gene. She's got the eating unpleasant things gene instead.

Hi Lucy,
heres to no shots fired near the house?! Eeek. Glad I dont have to worry about that particular rural issue . But the mountain would more than make up for it. Beautiful view!

The very thought of hunting makes me want to bawl my eyes out. I think it should only be allowed with bow and arrow, no rifles or guns for sure to give the poor animals a chance. But then, I still eat meat, so I'm not entirely consistent about my stand on animal cruelty.

I'm just wondering how Posey got the poo around her neck or all places. I guess she was rolling in it? Think how lucky you are she wasn't hit by a skunk! I keep seeing them running around my neighbourhood at night and am equally terrified and intensely curious to see them up close. But the former wins over because even the tiniest whiff of skunk makes my insides churn.

Lovely new thread, Lucy, and some truly great discussions on your last one. Miss Posey is simply charming - love the photo up top! Totally sympathising about the poo incident - our poodles used to get into the occasional spot of raccoon poo, and it was oh so hard to get the stink out. Hoping you are more successful with the odoriferous Miss Posey!

Posey is "cute"...really the best word for it. Isn't is odd, though, how dogs often like to roll around in stinky stuff?

How cute that Posey. All I can say is that at least you didn't have to take a car ride to get her home after the 'deed'.

Yes, i can remember having a filthy dog in the car - I used to keep a huge old towel to throw over the back seat when that happened - when we lived in Philly I had some parks I used to go to for long walks..... All my corgis have excelled in making the 'brown ruff' look - they roll very strategically sort of dropping right into it from the side neck/shoulder first.

Not to go all sciency, but as I understand it, dogs like to wreathe themselves in other odors 'instinctively' to mask their own scent, but it's clear to me they just love stink, the stinkier the better - sort of the way we love perfume........ it DOES smell good, but it has a deeper purpose than that.

Such "Don't wash me again, Mommy" eyes! Our Tricks once rolled in alligator poo - peee-yew. I haven't ever smelled skunk (and I'd like to keep it that way), so alligator is my worst.

We had a German Shepherd when we were first married and living in Boulder, Colorado where we were going to school. We lived on the edge of town, and we would let him out to run and play by himself. I can't imagine doing that now, but I digress. Max loved to kill skunks. He was so proud of himself, so he would bring them home and put them on our step. I'm quite sure he thought he was bringing us treasure. One day, of course, one of them sprayed him right in the face before he killed it. It was my task to get into the bathtub with him and rub tomato juice into his coat. Oh. My. But I can testify--it does work.

However, Peggy, I think alligator poo must beat skunk. At least in my imagination it would. Oi.

>204 Crazymamie: in old thread: That was the first de Lint I read and what got me interested in him. I do like some of his later stuff better—he learned as he went along—but I have a fondness for that one.

>22 sibylline:: in all her glory.

With tomato juice, it's the acid in it which cuts through the oil. It isn't as effective as this recipe we got from the vet's because the smell will linger in the fur, especially if the fur is wet. This one also works on dead fish and skunk carcass episodes, trust me:

Amounts are for a large breed dog.

1 litre of peroxide.
1/4 cup baking soda
2 tablespoons of hand soap (or mild dish detergent)

Wet dog and apply mixture, sponging on around the face. Allow mix to stay on the dog for approximately 10 minutes. Rinse off and then shampoo the dog. You can do a second time if necessary.

I have copied that for posterity, Tui, thankee kindly.

Alligator poo, the mind reels.

I have also favorited that recipe, as there is every chance we will need it at some point, so thanks, Tui, from me as well.

wow - guess i'm lucky! the only thing loki wanted to roll in was a worm in the grass. i caught him before he actually dove in.

i LOVE the pics above in #1
and posey's expression in #22! lol

please say hi to LD for me and tell her i love the costumes!

Nae bother, fellow rolling dog people. I sincerely hope none of you have to use it.

I know, I haven't quite recovered from the alligator poo idea either.

Every year when we go up to the cabin 2 of our 3 dogs find the remains of a fish left by the gulls to roll in. I guess they think it "stinks good" but those of us with human schnozzes find it awful!

Oh yes, we've gotten some mighty stinks from beach rambles now that I think of it - still not up to alligator level.

Tui - I have also copied your recipe for unstinking a dog, so thanks for that!

Lucy - Stopping in to wish you a lovely weekend.

I remember taking my parents (not very well-behaved) springer spaniel for a walk on the beach when I was 22-23. He found an intensely smelly dead sheep's head that had been washed up and nothing that I could do could make him drop it or come near enough to be put on the lead. I eventually got so embarrassed at being followed round by a dog with a dead sheep's head that I just went home on my own and left him to it (we lived just opposite the beach so it wasn't very far) and the hugely smelly dog turned up about two hours later.

109. **** ✔

Before starting this review I did a rare thing - reading through other LT reviews, for confirmation of my mixed response. To my relief I found that many readers had a similar experience. A Dalit, Ayyan works as the secretary to the Director, a ‘big man’ in every way, in a science research institute packed with Brahmins, whom he loathes. With the complicity of his son, he plays a prank and also keeps to himself some critical career-destroying information. It’s a dark comedy because nothing much goes fatally wrong for anybody (other than wrecked careers) in the end - lessons learned etc. Joseph is an observant, funny and insightful writer - especially about the small madnesses of daily life and interactions, beautifully so, and his writing is never anything but a pleasure to read, the proof of which for me is that by the time I finished, the book bristled with stickies. The problem(s) are all at a deeper level, hard to get at, so that I was utterly puzzled as to why I would pick it up, read a little, put it down, and even read an entire other book before picking it up again..... It took me three weeks to read a 300 pager. I even toyed with dropping it, but I thought, how can I, when I keep putting stickies in it everywhere and laughing at wonderful moments? It must be me, I decided. But now that I’m finished I’ll hazard that there is a bitterness at the core, a rage against the caste system, that creates a constant discordant tone under the comedy as well as a disturbing misogyny (disguised as sympathy), that plays out, boringly and predictably (the beautiful bitch gets what she deserves - except that, confusingly, at the same time Joseph has made the woman very likeable, so her ultimate fate feels plot-and-revenge driven - ie just plain mean.) She, and all the other women, ended up for me being just jiggling breasts and bottoms driving the men mad, or else saggy old hags who, yes, have emotional lives and a few of their own thoughts, but not really. I’m thinking out loud here - but I guess what I am saying is that Joseph wants to demonstrate the horrors of prejudice of all kinds, and yet the plot pivots on using some ugly prejudices to fuel it and shape it - so there is a disconnect, a contradiction. I consider LT a place to explore a personal response to a book - remember this is not a formal review - Serious Men is good enough for a reader take his or her chances with - if you own it you should read it, and if you find it in a bookstore and read a few pages and are intrigued you should buy it and decide for yourself. As you can see - I think Serious Men is worth writing a long and serious review about, and I am giving it a high rating as well - it's a first novel and I expect more and better. ****

Choice quotes: Ayyan was certain that there was no such thing called truth. There was only the pursuit of truth and it was a pursuit that would always go on. It was a form of employment. ‘Everything that people do in this world is because they have nothing better to do....Einstein had something called Relativity. You scrub the floor twice a day.’

Acharya wondered why daughters always went away. So keen they were on finding a moron and leaving.

Time stretched and contracted depending on who was keeping it. It was a strange, enchanting force. In a way, it did not exist unless it was comprehended. And to him that was the key to the Time problem. Time was clearly woven into another force, the force of perception. And perception was the virtue of life alone.So he wondered if life was a fundamental element of the universe like Time itself.

Old women unfurled their umbrellas with a wisdom that did not have a clear face. It struck him how complete, how final, an umbrella actually was. As a technology it would not evolve any further.

>109 sibylline: Hi Lucy,
Loved what you wrote about this, both it's virtues and problems.
This was one of my early ER's and I just went back to read my own review of it because, for the life of me, I couldn't remember very much about it even after reading your comments. That in itself is rather telling, I think. I do still feel that, for a first novel, it bodes well for better things and I'll certainly be up for trying anything else he does.

You loved it - one reason I got it. I totally agree with you that I'll look for his next book with interest. Meanwhile it's always a relief to hear that someone I consider sharp as a tack can forget a book read relatively recently. I do agree though that it is telling.

Your mountain is beautiful, Lucy. I miss my view of Pike's Peak. though right now I'm looking out at a crystal clear lake surrounded by trees in late fall color. Not too shabby.

I'm delurking to thank Tui for the stinky dog shampoo. Lucky is attracted to the "muck" that borders our pond from time to time. He's also run into a few skunks in the back yard in past years. I hope I don't have to use this recipe for quite awhile, but I'm glad to have it. Posey looks "cute" even when she's been naughty.

Cuter even...... look at that innocent expression.

>44 sibylline:: I think you liked that one a bit better than I did. I read it a couple of years ago and, while I thought Manu had promise as an author, the pacing of the first 2/3 of the book was just too slow for me. He dragged without really (IMO) having a reson to drag.

That would have made a very short book, eh? But I agree with pretty much everything you wrote, it does really speed up the last third - although some of the flaws are even more obvious.

Is Posey allowed back in the house yet? ~~~~

Lucy - Indian literature either grabs me with an intensity almost unrivalled (think Rohinton Mistry and Salman Rushdie) or I am nonplussed a little. Not sure about whether I would like Serious Men just as your review was heavily qualified. Have a lovely weekend.

>44 sibylline: a mixed response makes me veeeery interested !
Great review!

Posey cleaned up quite nicely after two rounds..... and I kept a close watch on her when I went out to finish posting the signs - we started out close to where the crime occurred, I'm pretty sure. I remember looking at her a little before that and she was still all right.

110. ****

In my overloaded TBR shelves I have a pile of classic sf, from which I randomly pulled The Demolished Man by Alfred Bester. A tycoon wants to merge with his rival. He believes the rival has refused his offer and decides to murder him. Only problem, there are scores of telepathic people around now, Espers or Peepers (unfortunate name) and no one has successfully murdered anyone in almost a hundred years since you cannot get away with it. So, yeah, the primo police prefect is sent out to figure out who dunnit. Written in 1951, over sixty years ago now, you can't expect to meet an sf book that doesn't have technology, settings or societal attitudes that are way off, some amusingly, some naive, some alarming. I found myself making a list of some of the technology: a multiclock that showed time on Earth, Venus, Mars, moons of Jupiter, a bed filled with carbonated glycerine heated to 99.9 degrees, Jumpers instead of cars, but also cars that guide themselves around high up skyways, crystals that record things, but...... the computer is enormous and spits out paper...... and is called The Mosaic Multiplex Prosecution Computor (his spelling) ..... all good fun, and the plot is excellent right up until the end when it takes one of those turns that takes on maybe a bit too much.
The only truly creepy part, as usual, is the male attitude toward women, a few are decent co-workers, naturally on lower rungs and 'good eggs', the rest are essentially sexy and bad, or sexy and sweet. The book slides into unfathomable creepiness when one character is returned to babyhood to recover from a shock and starts sitting on the lap of well..... a person she calls Daddy...... it's just so iew....! But it is also fascinating - back then the Daddy's little girl fantasy was rampant and not too many folks were picking up that rock and looking at the nasty side.

There is much to amuse and anyone interested in the evolution of sf should read it, most of the book is funny, quick and clever and thoughtful enough to overcome the flaws. ****

Hi Lucy! I'm continually amazed at how awesome where you live is - a custom designed home, lakes, treehouses, magic circles (I forget what the proper name for it was, but it was cool) and now a gorgeous mountain on your doorstep! Next you'll be telling me there's a portal into a magical fairytale kingdom one field over.
Also, all this talk of skunks and alligators sounds awfully exotic from this side of the pond. Who knew alligator do-do was more stinky than skunk spray? (And I only know how bad that is because Bill Bryson described how pongy it is in great detail in one of his books. I really can't imagine how it must smell, but I fully get the idea that it's pretty horrendous)

#55 The Bester sounds interesting Lucy. I've had his The Stars My Destination in the TBR pile for ages and have it tentatively on my list of books I might read this month.

I'm a fan of both The Stars My Destination and The Demolished Man, Lucy. You're right, you have to cut some slack for humorously wrong predictions of future technology, and somewhat neanderthal views of women, but they both supply good, imaginative storytelling. I think that's the reason they've shown enduring appeal with readers.

The Stars My Destination has the added benefit of being a futuristic take on the irresistible (to me, anyway) The Count of Monte Cristo story.

I had Stars around too, but I thought I'd tackle a Clement I'm pretty sure I haven't read next.

110. ****1/2 #3 Off the shelf

When a new New Yorker magazine comes in and I see it has a story in it by Thomas McGuane I think "Yay!" I know I will read it with fascination and not be disappointed. McGuane's territory is ranch country in the northwest of the US, rural folk who maybe have become suburbanites a little unwillingly or vice versa and small town life and people who have somehow lost the thread and drink more than they should. There's an authenticity, and a stubborn and eccentric intelligence and wit in the writing and in the people he writes about that makes all of his work intriguing and rich for me. The main character in Nobody's Angel is Captain Patrick Fitzpatrick, 4th generation ranch family in Montana recently in charge of minding a tank on a US base in Germany, now home again, somewhere in his very early 30's I'm guessing and clearly lost. A beautiful woman, smart about horses, turns up with her oil rich and very strange husband on a nearby ranch and the fun begins. The plot is really just a device to hang character revelation and gorgeous description of the ranch, horses and the like. Sad things happen, terrible choices get made, it becomes apparent that the Fitzpatrick ranch is in its last days..... Someone asks Patrick "What about running your beautiful ranch?" and he replies, Got my doubts there, too. I'd like to just see to the horses, but it ought to be farmed up quite a bit more. I always thought farming was a highly evolved form of mowing the lawn." For all the family has been in the area for a hundred years and more, they have always stayed apart and different: Catholic and smart, very good-looking (that's a guess) and wild, they have never achieved respectability or the status of steady responsible work, even though it is clearly recognized that they are great horse trainers. Patrick loves the ranch, loves horses, is competent but there is too much history, and worse, no structure, too much here that fatally distracts him from his good intentions and his own wild perverse streak and he yearns for the comfort, routine and safety of his tank, and the regular habits of Europeans; it is a matter of how matters will play out, and affection for this mixed up person that keeps your reading. **** 1/2

110. ****1/2 #3 Off the shelf

When a new New Yorker magazine comes in and I see it has a story in it by Thomas McGuane I think "Yay!" I know I will read it with fascination and not be disappointed. McGuane's territory is ranch country in the northwest of the US, rural folk who maybe have become suburbanites a little unwillingly or vice versa and small town life and people who have somehow lost the thread and drink more than they should. There's an authenticity, and a stubborn and eccentric intelligence and wit in the writing and in the people he writes about that makes all of his work intriguing and rich for me. The main character in Nobody's Angel is Captain Patrick Fitzpatrick, 4th generation ranch family in Montana recently in charge of minding a tank on a US base in Germany, now home again, somewhere in his very early 30's I'm guessing and clearly lost. A beautiful woman, smart about horses, turns up with her oil rich and very strange husband on a nearby ranch and the fun begins. The plot is really just a device to hang character revelation and gorgeous description of the ranch, horses and the like. Sad things happen, terrible choices get made, it becomes apparent that the Fitzpatrick ranch is in its last days..... Someone asks Patrick "What about running your beautiful ranch?" and he replies, Got my doubts there, too. I'd like to just see to the horses, but it ought to be farmed up quite a bit more. I always thought farming was a highly evolved form of mowing the lawn." For all the family has been in the area for a hundred years and more, they have always stayed apart and different: Catholic and smart, very good-looking (that's a guess) and wild, they have never achieved respectability or the status of steady responsible work, even though it is clearly recognized that they are great horse trainers. Patrick loves the ranch, loves horses, is competent but there is too much history, and worse, no structure, too much here that fatally distracts him from his good intentions and his own wild perverse streak and he yearns for the comfort, routine and safety of his tank, and the regular habits of Europeans; it is a matter of how matters will play out, and affection for this mixed up person that keeps you reading. **** 1/2

Ah, a Tom McGuane fan!

As a Montanan and horseperson, I find his voice as authentic as you do, although I've only read his shorts and never read one of his novels.

My RL book group likes to read a Montana author or two during the year--maybe I should suggest Nobody's Angel.

This was my first novel of his too - I've loved his ss for AGES. Supposedly this is his most 'accessible' novel - some of the others are more stream-o-consciousness and tough to read, at least that's what I read somewhere somewhen.

I was horse mad as a kid - and we ended up living on a farm and doing the horse thing quite intensely for many years - I stopped riding in my early 30's when I couldn't make it work with all the other things I wanted to do, but country life is country life and small town bars are kind of the same everywhere and I got a big dose of all that in my early 20's ...... my step family even, is not entirely unlike the Fitzgerald family - many generation landowners, rapscallions, brilliant with horses, nuts, charming..... .yep familiar all right.

I'm crazy about him!

I've impulsively picked up Book 3 of the Acacia Trilogy - I read the other two in 2009, the year before I joined LT - I've been delaying because I knew I'd have to sit down with the first two books and at least page through them and read summaries of the plots and try to bring the story back to life in my memory. Today I realized if I would just get on with it I could clear three books out of my shelves, as I've had the first two hanging about with the third one. It was a thrilling moment. During lunchtime today I sat and reviewed the first two and I'm surprised by how much as come back, just needed a bit of tweaking. All of my other books are relatively serious and demanding so...... yeah. Path of least resistance, to heck with the one less traveled by.

love "path of least resistance..." gave me my morning chuckle

Hi Lucy- Loved your Nobody's Angel review. You should post it and earn a worthy Thumb! I read this one many years ago and you are reminding me that I should consider a reread.
I have not read Bester. Sounds interesting.

DONE! Mark, thanks for giving me a little nudge. I get lazy about that.

Bester IS interesting -- forgot to add - the prefect has a compulsion to tell tall tales that also adds something very amusing to the whole story.

I have NO IDEA why the review posted twice. NONE at all.

Oh, totally failed to spot the The Demolished Man review. I agree entirely with your analysis, a great story but the attitude to women is very sucky. Bester seemed to have a bit of a thing for infantilising women.
I thought the writing where the psychic cop reveals the identity of the murderer by delving into the mind of the rapidly maturing female witness was a stunning portrayal of human consciousness (a pet subject of mine), but yeah, a really creepy relationship (and I thought he was a really cool character apart from that).
The Stars My Destination is an absolutely stunning novel, full of just incredible, mind-bending ideas that come at you at a dizzying speed, but it has an even worse attitude towards women, with some very dodgy stuff about rape in it. Sigh. Apart from that, I think Bester was a genius of 50's SF.

Well, as you know, there are still plenty of dudes around with creepy cave man ideas and attitudes. Even here in the supposedly so enlightened USA.

> 60 Really great review, Lucy. I've never read any McGuane at all but I'll be on the lookout for him now.

I hope Mrs. Kitten has one or two of his books on her library shelves?

and here is a story:

The McGuane I recently read had a lot of unfamiliar vocab. One was the word 'mantie' used in reference to packing up hunting and camping gear. So I go to the trusty info source and up comes 'mantie' as men's panties 'with lots of photos of pink and ruffles and gewgaws and ribbons.... now I hadn't quite heard of this phenom..... but nonetheless I can't see a bunch of tough ole cowboys packin' manties as an important component of their outings..... but I scrolled and scrolled - finding nothing at all.

So I went back to put in 'mantie hunting' and there it was -- a big piece of waterproof canvas you can wrap your gear in etc.

The truth can be so boring, sometimes, eh?

AND ....... TODAY IS POSEY'S FIRST BIRTHDAY.

the little cupcake.

Oh, I love it. Happy Day, Miss Posey.

I just put my name on the list with the breeder for a puppy. I told her that this time I want a black girl Lab. She said that next summer she'll be having a litter that will be from Charm's great-granddaughter. Charm (who still lives with Patty at the age of 14) is Jack & Docker's mother. I really like that idea--I've been smiling about it all morning.

Happy Birthday Posey! That cake is so cute.

Happy Birthday Miss Posey! A lovely cupcake to celebrate a wonderful day. :)

I can't believe she is one already! What an adorable cupcake (I couldn't eat it though--how could you eat Posey?). Tummy rub, chest scratch, behind both ears scratch and a big hug, Posey.

I love that cupcake! Happy Birthday, Miss Posey--I agree, it is hard to realize she is already a year old.

Awww, happy birthday to Posey.

I hope she doesn't go in for some more rolling to celebrate ;)

Gosh, Posey a year old?! Wow, how time flies. Give the ol' gal a tummy tickle from me.
Oh, btw, I say this not in a self-agrandising way, and no need to comment or nuffink but today is my b'day! So me and Ms Posey share a birthday. I feel honoured!

That's so great! Happy birthday to you too..... I have to run to your thread and say that.

Happy birthday sweet Posey! You've brought us all so much joy!!!

Happy Birthday, Posey and Posey's mom!
Becky, black lab girls are the best! (Excuse me, Posey.)

Wow, a year old already? Seems impossible! Gosh how time goes. Happy Birthday Posie! Was that cupcake made for her? It's unbelievably cute. Who made it? and what are the decorations made from? marzipan I'm guessing?

Ah, Ilana, I snitched it off some corgophile website....... I had fun choosing one, believe me.

Read the Thomas McGuane review with interest, as you know I skip the NYer stories but that’s a name I recognize because of you.

A happy birthday to Posey! How was her day?

A belated happy birthday to Posey!

Loved your manty/mantie story! What a great laugh to start out the day.

Around here, you occasionally hear the phrase 'Manty up'--meaning get your stuff together and let's get out of here. It's not common, but it's used by the occasional backcountry type or boyscout leader.

But the next time someone tells me to manty up, they'll be wondering why I'm giggling uncontrollably.

I missed your post at 70. Hilarious.

I love that phrase--"Manty up." Although I can't say that it sounds particularly western, to my ears at least. I wonder where it came from, originally?

Added. I so stand corrected. According to none other than The Long Riders Guild Academic Foundation's glossary and study of American West/Cowboy vocabulary and slang, "manty-up" means "to throw a cover over a packsaddle and tie it down; to pack a horse," which in perfect American English, as streamsong clearly indicates, would mean "Get your you-know-what together" (this is your thread, not mine, Sib, so I'll keep it clean).

The word it comes from is 'mantle' - as in a covering...... I do love how words evolve though. Mantle seems a bit archaic, so it is an interesting usage altogether. Now I have to go look that up in the OED. The interesting point being, how did that word, mantle, come in to that usage in the west.

Okay, I'm back - what my intelligent guess is that it came into the vocab via Metis cowboy types, from the french for 'manteau' - or cloak - that really is a 'common usage' kind of word, whereas I think 'mantle' was quite archaic by the mid-late 19th century in English. That would also explain the 'ie' - archaic french has a kind of lift - so 'eau' would sound more like 'oi' which would shift easily to 'ie'.

Well, less erudite than your explanation: a "manty" is a tarp or a waterproof cover that goes over a packed packsaddle--that's according to the Long Riders Guild. So yes, maybe it comes from "manteau."

There's a website where you can buy, from a guy named Trader Grizz, a custom metis frock coat beaded leather jacket. The website says the design comes from the Metis French and Indian Trapper of the Great Lakes and Canada. So I guess in Montana, which if my geography is correct, haha, is close to Canada, then "manty up" would be something you would hear. However, I wouldn't expect my gg-grandfather, from Colorado via Indiana, to use such a word.

I really do love words and word origins--we are of like minds in at least some ways, Sib--reach for the OED!

Fascinating stuff.

There were French trappers and traders in the area. So that's a real possibility.

But there were also priests and priestly mantles are still worn today.

Packing horses and mules is a real art. If things are the least unbalanced, the load works at itself and in time comes undone. If you are 'pulling a string' (riding and leading a group of packhorses) over a very narrow trail --think 18 inches wide--with a couple hundred foot drop below you, and your load comes undone, the sudden shift of weight can not only lose your load, but tip the horse carrying it over the edge. If the horses are tied together firmly, the whole string and the rider can go over the edge. Yup, lots of prayers are said by packers. It seems to me that it would fit into cowboy humor to wrap the load in a priestly mantle.

I love this Janet - thanks for the information. Chilling and very very interesting.

Those French-Indian trappers were so legendary and influential - and of course - many of the Catholic (most) priests were also French Jesuits so......

I did some singing in college that involved some OF/MF chanson stuff - not a lot, but enough to get the idea. Very nasally stuff.

86 -91 Fascinating discussion! Thanks for all the word fun!

I am also loving the discussion, Lucy! So interesting!

Sorry that I missed Miss Posey's first birthday - please extend my good wishes to her!

I also enjoyed your discussion about the origin of the phrase and words!
Belated congrats to Poseys first birthday, I loved the picture of the cupcake.
I just finished my first book by Charles de Lint which I very much enjoyed. It was The Onion Girl from his Newford series, I definately will look out for the other ones in the series. Once I finished it, I noticed that it was already number 11 in the series, but I didn't get the impression that I missed something from previous books.
Wish you a lovely weekend.

I'm very pleased to be among people who take the time and trouble to look a word up. Much fun! Thank you!!

Aren't word origins fun? Ever listen to A Way With Words on public radio? I really enjoy that show.

I must get that Tom McGuane book Lucy - any book that is worthy of putting up 2 4.5 star reviews for it must be a must! Have a wonderful weekend.

Love the cupcake -- but who gets to eat it?? :-)

114.

I know I read Mrs Palfrey at the Claremont in the early or mid-80's, thirty years ago. In that time I have made the shift from being a young woman to being on the threshold of late middle age and so, naturally my 'identification' has shifted from the younger character, Ludo, to the elderly residents of the Claremont Hotel. I always hugely liked the lively sort older person from an early age, loved the stories they had to tell and enjoyed just being with them in a way that I know is unusual. It's been hard to handle in the last ten years as all but one or two of these marvelous people have died (let alone my parents) and I've struggled with a sense of being horribly betrayed and overwhelmed by so many departures - also wondering now how to fill that void - how to cultivate the interested younger parties. I am lucky and do not have a 'sporty' daughter who cares nothing for the things I care for. She told me just this morning she thinks of me as being about thirty (which is a remarkably accurate for how I feel inside). I also attended as faithfully as I could to my mother after she had to be in a 'residence' and the whole atmo of the Claremont took me back in a most excrutiating way. The loneliness and the sense of just waiting to die, of being of no interest or use to anybody......In short, I found this a hard hard read this time around. As a novel - it is a near flawless piece of work, with an ending that manages to be simultaneously shocking and also darkly funny - Laura Palfrey has managed to shroud the end of her life in a certain mystery and we know by now that she would have enjoyed that immensely. The blow though of the daughter's callousness took my breath away. This was the toughest Taylor yet, about the most unsentimental view of aging I've ever encountered.

Happy Birthday sweet Posey!
you (and your mom) have brought us so many precious moments - thank you little one.
may you live a good long life!

sure is hard to think it's been a year already :)

i think i have arctic dreams on my WL

eta - even better - i actually have the book! yay

The virtual cupcakes are, I'm sure, virtually scrumptious!

Happy Belated Birthday to Posey!

112. ****1/2

What you've got in The Disappearance is a book that asks all the right questions (what if all the men disappeared, how would women cope, and vice versa, how would the men cope). BUT the journey to Wylie's conclusions is often so maddening that it is a tribute to his sheer ability to spin a good yarn that I stuck with it. He's got the gift, which I remember had me riveted into the wee hours of the night in my early teens when I encountered When Worlds Collide. The story cuts back and forth between Bill and Paula Gaunt, he a philosopher, she his wife, a housewife (albeit v. well educated) in their fifties, long married and not unhappily. There is a third element which are long and tedious chapters where Bill is working out his ideas about why the disappearance has been inflicted (mostly flailing around) and what can be done about it (nothing much except try to stay alive.). Wylie seems to offer that men would either theorize pointlessly and futilely or get murderous, bored, and crazed with sexual need. Women would alternate between obsessing with trivialities and just getting on with the next thing to be done, perhaps failing to look far enough ahead (lacking imagination, as Wylie thinks we do.) Paula occasionally has a pensive moment, but she's mostly too busy. The racism and sexism -- all based on the assumptions that Wylie possessed, and he was probably reasonably enlightened for the times -- get in the way of the one important aspect of the book - that it is a brilliant 'what if' and that nearly all the questions Wylie raises are valid ones. Why be faithful? Why are cultures so prone to becoming rigid? Why does Christianity take such a cruel attitude toward women (I mean the snake, the apple, it's a mess from the get-go)? Even the horrible racism that sticks out now, serves as a reminder and an incentive to think and learn and grow. I found, actually, that sixty years on, the fact that the most racist parts of the book are so utterly out of the realm of the possible now that it was a bit uplifting to feel that some progress has been made. Same with the fact that women have also, for the most part moved on. And that so many men are dedicated to their families in a different way than of yore, totally hands-on, that is. Nonetheless the questions are, in a way, timeless ones that need to always be in our minds. The conclusions Wylie comes to are to my mind, pathetically limited as a result his own temporal and intellectual limitations, mumbo-jumbo in fact. But we are free to answer the questions he raises differently. He gets my respect for having had the courage and the vision, to ask, to attempt a book of this kind. I see much of the dystopic literature which abounds today owing a great deal to Wylie. ****1/2

>103 sibylline:: Nice review. I'm still struggling with mine, as you no doubt know. It's definitely not a 4½ star book for me, although recommended. The speechifying got in the way plus some inconsistencies that seem more fundamental as time passes. Still, it was intriguing; I'll give it that!

The stars are pretty much all for originality of concept and courage to try - also for the ability to write a dated story that I kept on reading pretty much because I had to.

113. ****1/2

I'm three books into the David Foster Wallace adventure, one book of short stories and Infinite Jest and feel tongue-tied and inadequate. The sheer inventive playfulness (or is it playful inventiveness?) on display, the compassion for suffering, and the wisdom..... is once again stunning. As I listened, I kept thinking, "Where did he come UP with That idea?" over and over again. The novel qua novel, his first, is arguably a bit of a mess and Wallace laughingly exits mid-word at the end, but the plot such as it is, centers around the (sexual) 'awakening' of Lenore Beadsman, daughter of a Cleveland baby-food tycoon (and mean bastard), presently involved with her boss, an eccentric and insecure publisher and considerably older man (40's to her 20's) named Rick Vigorous. Her father is about to introduce a new babyfood that gets infants talking early when Lenore's domineering great-grandma Lenore disappears from the nursing home with the formula --- which event has a domino effect from operation of the publisher's switchboard to a strange transformation of Vlad the Impaler, Lenore's cockatiel (who clearly has imbibed the baby food) who then finds himself on TV as an evangelist spokesbird .... and...... and.... you get the idea. There is no central theme either, not really. For awhile there is this hint that all of the events are part of a 'conspiracy' to awaken Lenore into adulthood, into herself and maybe so, only in the sense that it is cosmically 'time' for that to happen to her, so you think, hmmm maybe there is this almost feminist element (in the softer sense of the word) to bring a young woman into full ownership of her own life and body, to emerge out of the vague innocent sweetness of the 'kore' figure into the knowing adult woman.... but then there is more than a little of religious imagery as well, a strong implication (by way of Vlad) of the connection between Life, lived to the raunchy sexy hilt, and Life lived in 'partnership' with God - with immanence, being present, and being involved with others..... Wallace was smart and thoughtful and it's unwise to dismiss anything he puts into his work without careful examination. Which means, eventually, if I live long enough rereading all of his work, putting the pieces of the puzzle together. The four and a half is to leave room at the top for the five that is Infinite Jest.

I thought the narrator of the audiobook was superb. His Vlad was GREAT!

Nice review, Lucy! You're inspiring. I haven't read DFW, but you sure make it tempting now.

I clicked on the link for Infinite Jest to go the work page. It said the book was recommended for me based upon A Confederacy of Dunces. Now, given that I hated the later, why would they recommend a book based upon it?

Anyway, have you read the Toole and do you think there is a reasonably similarity there? If so, I'll avoid these like the plague regardless of how attractive your review makes them sound.

In a word: Superficial resemblance. Sort of like comparing pretty much anybody to Tolkien, in my view. It is a book about despair, ultimately, but the conclusions are not at all the same. DFW is in a class of his own. Infinite Jest is ..... is most likely the most profound novel of 'our era', and I do not exaggerate. It's up there as one of the reading adventures of my life. That said, I do have a taste - more than a taste really -- for writers like Pynchon, Joyce and John Cowper Powys (another major reading adventure.) I also like (not love) Gaddis, Gombrowicz , Doblin and Musil - I think of them as 'language' novelists, and I get high just on the flow of words..... All men, interestingly. Anyhow if you don't like/love those writers maybe you won't like/love Wallace. But I expect you will, as he also has an ability to create characters with dimension about whom you feel compassion. His characters also interact in a way I find enthralling - especially, in IJ the boys at the tennis school, the kindness they have for each other. They play this game in IJ, the kids (girls and boys) a world domination game, I forget the name of it off-hand, which is about one of the funniest things I've ever read in my life. Someone has made a you-tube piece of 'the game' that is brilliant and also incredibly funny. Well, anyway. No guarantees, but don't worry about the Toole, which I did read and I did like (but not love) at the time, would I now? Don't know.

Hmm. Trepidation.

Is Infinite Jest the place to start with his work, or one of those short story collections you mention?

Infinite Jest is sitting on my bookshelf, mocking me from across the room. You told me I would hate it. You are most probably right.

You do make it sound fascinating, although daunting. My interest has been piqued, although I think you engage with these challenging books much more thoroughly than I could attempt.
Also, I remember you mentioning that he took his own life. I'm always a bit wary of reading stuff by suicides - so hard to not see the sadness that eventuallly overwhelmed then in everything - although many of my absolute favourites in different disciplines choose that route - Virginia Woolf and Mark Rothko being the two most prominent. I was so disappointed when I discovered Rothko killed himself. It was the very opposite of what I always thought his work was about, so the way I viewed it changed forever once I knew.

>110 TadAD:: My husband keeps trying to get me to read Infinite Jest, and I just haven't been up to it. However I've read some of his essays and enjoyed them. Especially A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again, which is a long essay about going on a cruise. It tempted me to read others in the collection, although I haven't yet.

Tad, you didn't ask, but I hated *Dunces*, and I had been prepared to love it. It was not funny or well-written. DFW is - and is, in fact, everything that Lucy is claiming for him. My advice would be to dive on into *IJ*. It is definitely THE book of its period in my reading experience.

I hated C of Dunces too. So I've always shimmied away from Infinite Jest. Howevuh, you might just have done it by mentioning Mr. Tolkien.

Wait wait Tui - you, I expect, might be a prime candidate for loving IJ. I'm saying that Wallace is in a class of his own, like Tolkien (whom he DOES NOT RESEMBLE EVEN THE TINIEST BIT) you can't compare him to ANYBODY. He is just uniquely Wallace, beautiful and strange.

I'm thrilled to hear that your spousal unit loved IJ, Laura, and is trying to get you to read it. I don't feel capable of offering myself to be a tutor for a read - I simply haven't read enough about Wallace, none of the bio material and not all the books and essays either - but I would happily be a tour leader next year maybe - IJ is worth a reread and not in some misty future when I've lost it all. There are some incredible 'threads' here of previous group reads in Infinite Jesters.

Confed. was kind of a sour book and the anti-hero was not lovable. Even the worst characters in a Wallace book are, if not loveable, accessible and very human - I feel I learned more about what adolescent boys are REALLY like from him, esp. talented and driven ones.

That's interesting Hannah - - and yes -- Wallace's sadness infuses his fiction. He was exponentially smarter than anyone else around him at all times which as I understand it is very lonely indeed. I know I've read that these super-bright people often take their lives, I expect they are sensitive in ways we ordinary folk cannot conceive of. In Broom there's a character,Lenore's younger brother, Stonecipher Lavache Beadsman - a student at Amherst who 'is' Wallace, I have no doubt. Wallace wasn't minus a leg, but that is a sly reference to the 'injured' seer archetype, Tiresias, etc. A fatally damaged person, that is. But lonely beyond all belief. So you might be very uncomfortable. At the same time he, and Hal, in IJ Wallace's other doppelganger are irresistible people.

Time for carpool, time to stop.

Hi Sib. I was wondering if you've read Stoner by John Williams? There's a group read of the book going on now over on the Missouri thread. I was considering joining the group, but I decided that the book looks more depressing than I care to deal with right now. They're a great group of people. The thread is here.

Well, Lucy, it is a great thumper of a thing, perhaps better suited to February rather than the pre-Christmas crazy period (I make my gifts, with the exception of books), but I promise I will give it a try on your hearty recommendation.

I had to run off in mid-stream there, so I'm back....

Thank you, Stoner looks like a story that would very much interest me, B., and the thread is seriously tempting. I'd have to hop on it though and I'm kind of disorganized. But maybe it would be a good excuse for visiting the 'new' bookstore in downtown Sarasota ASAP (we head south Friday) for family t-giving. On the other hand it would also violate my NO NEW BOOKS embargo. I'll compromise by watching the thread a little and putting it on my WL.....

Also, I do doubt whether IJ would be to your taste, B. While, in some ways, it is so real as to be excruciating, in others it is utterly off the charts.

From my pinnacle of DFW experience I have a feeling it doesn't matter where you start. On the other hand, I knew when I started that I was already committed to the entire body of work. The stories in Oblivion show aspects of DFW though and the essays, ditto - I was just reading about how he does 'stretch the truth' in his essays, so some of them, at least, are arguably 'fictionalized'.

Hope I remembered everyone above, if I didn't just yell.

114. ****1/2 Virago of the month/Taylor Centenary

I know I read Mrs Palfrey at the Claremont in the early or mid-80's, thirty years ago. In that time I have made the shift from being a young woman to being on the threshold of late middle age and so, naturally my 'identification' has shifted from the younger character, Ludo, to the elderly residents of the Claremont Hotel. I always hugely liked the lively sort older person from an early age, loved the stories they had to tell and enjoyed just being with them in a way that I know is unusual. It's been hard to handle in the last ten years as all but one or two of these marvelous people have died (let alone my parents) and I've struggled with a sense of being horribly betrayed and overwhelmed by so many departures - also wondering now how to fill that void - how to cultivate the interested younger parties. I am lucky and do not have a 'sporty' daughter who cares nothing for the things I care for. She told me just this morning she thinks of me as being about thirty (which is a remarkably accurate for how I feel inside). I also attended as faithfully as I could to my mother after she had to be in a 'residence' and the whole atmo of the Claremont took me back in a most excrutiating way. The loneliness and the sense of just waiting to die, of being of no interest or use to anybody......In short, I found this a hard hard read this time around. As a novel - it is a near flawless piece of work, with an ending that manages to be simultaneously shocking and also darkly funny - Laura Palfrey has managed to shroud the end of her life in a certain mystery and we know by now that she would have enjoyed that immensely. The blow though of the daughter's callousness took my breath away. This was the toughest Taylor yet, about the most unsentimental view of aging I've ever encountered. ****1/2

For those of you who want to find a host of superb reviews go to the Taylor Celebration thread: here and poke around. More than a few Virago-ites have marvelous blogs.

Very nice review. I first heard of Elizabeth Taylor a few months ago here on LT and this is the only one I've read. I'm past "last middle age" (although I feel more like mid-middle age) so can certainly understand why you found it a difficult read...although I did enjoy the humor and ended with positive feelings for the book.

Because I haven't got a clue how long I'm going to live but suspect it won't be to 120, I've dubbed where I am in life my "middling years". However between the ears, it's about 27. I've always liked oldsters too, Lucy. Let's just keep dancing until the music stops, eh?

>120 sibylline:. You make an interesting point about the way a piece of literature strikes a person differently, depending on a person's age their identification with different characters in the work. There's a lot of unfortunate ageism in our culture, which makes this whole issue unnecessarily difficult. I even noticed a young pissant posting on one of the Infinite Jest threads--something to the effect that, How could someone so "old" (a 69-year-old parent) possibly think IJ was interesting? (I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it). I almost fell off my chair laughing. Then I was very happy to see our very own Peggy put the pissant in his/her place: "I'm a person too . . . and there's no reason not to expect me or my generation not to get *IJ*." Loved it!

For an interesting take on some of these issues of aging and loss, you might consider a book titled Necessary Losses, by Judith Viorst (an oldie but goodie). Chances are you may have read it already, but it's one of those that can profitably be read at different times of life for different reasons.

I'm looking forward to reading Mrs. Palfrey at the Claremont.

So this is weird, I wrote a whole post, posted it, and .... nada..... it happened this morning too. Hmmmmmmmm. Plus I was at the top as if I had posted..... and I had an afterthought so I came back to find no post.....

So what did I say, let's see - 120 - yes - because Mrs. Palfrey maintains her dignity to the end, somehow that is a triumph.

-Tui - I'm dancing.

B - I remember that interacting, Peggy put that puppy in his place. You are not the first person to recommend the Viorst, so I have WLed it.

I think you will love all of Taylor's work. One of them is about a borderline person - Angel and it is simply superb.

Lucy, just want to ask if you think IJ is the sort of book that could be done by audio? Or maybe audio with book alongside to dip into from time to time. I've listened to his Interviews with Hideous Men.

Gosh - I imagine it would be about 30 disks. All depends on who's reading, but I think it could be fabulous. His dialogue ear was pitch perfect. I would love to listen to it.

I've listened to the audible sample and the narrator is ok, though over 56 hours of listening would take some dedication. DFW was one of the narrators on the Interviews audiobook.

Hi Lucy,
Back to Infinite Jest....that it is seen as a challenge....it just makes me want to read it more. Damn my ego.
:)

Hi Lucy,
Interesting discussion of Infinite Jest which I impulsively bought a few months ago and have sitting on my shelf (I feel completely intimidated by it). I have no idea if I would like it but if there is a guided tour (different from a tutored read, yes?) sometime, I will probably come along for the ride.
And I loved your review of Mrs. Palfrey at the Claremont which is also on the shelf.....

I loved Mrs Palfrey when I first read it, about 5 years ago now (wow, has it really been that long?!! yes ... ). At 45 then and 50 now, I'm kind of in-between the two characters but I get what you mean about identifying differently. I shied away from a re-read this month because my dad moved into an assisted living facility in July and I spent last week helping my mother move into an independent living community. Neither of these are anything like The Claremont, but the issues are just a little too close to home especially since I live far away like Mrs Palfrey's annoying and neglectful daughter ...

Happy Friday, Lucy!

I loved Mrs. Palfrey, too, Lucy. Wanted to smack the daughter and grandson, loved Mrs. Palfrey.

I found Mrs. Palfrey a hard read precisely because of what Laura said at >130 lauralkeet:. We have 3 in their 90s in our family at the moment, 2 of them four hours away. It's just too close to home at the moment.

These comments are all moving to me - thanks for your candor back. I couldn't have read it a couple of years ago when things were too close.

I'm in JFK btw - winging it to Sarasota for T-giving with my 'courtesy' aunt - a nice way of describing someone who is not actually blood family but somehow nonetheless is family. One of my last remaining connections to that generation.

Promise to visit threads and be sociable once I'm settled - I've barely been on LT the last few days.

Your great review of Mrs. Palfrey expresses how I felt about the book. I read it in my thirties, and have wanted to reread it for quite some time now that I'm in my sixties. I don't know if you're a movie person, but it was made into a decent movie with, I think, Joan Plowright as Mrs. Palfrey.

Posey one year old! Wow time flies.

Oh, you're in Florida for t-giving. Stories, please! Hope you're having a wonderful time!

Thanksgiving in Florida. Now that sounds nice (says the Florida native). Warm and sunny, I hope.

Wishing you a great time in Florida and Happy Thanksgiving, Lucy!

I like Joan Plowright - I've heard positives and negatives about the movie..... that it was considerably 'softened'? Frankly, if it wasn't I don't think I could stand it.

Upon thinking over Palfrey - the cocktail party that Mrs. de Salis gives...... beyond brilliant, one of the great party scenes ever. Tight and hilarious, fully conveying the dull awkwardness of it.

It's warmer than Vermont, for sure, but it isn't quite comfortable beach weather, not even all that great for walking as there is a brisk breeze from the north - any kind of wind does something to my eyes these days - , but rilly, I'm not complaining. Where we are is very peaceful and pretty and lots of inland walking. Since I live in such a rural setting now I love snooping along a suburban walkway...... all the choices people make about how to handle presenting their abodes.

Since i usually work when I come here nowadays, it's odd to come here and NOT work, but that's what I'm doing.

I didn't know you grew up in FL, Ellen. I find it a fascinating state. We are terribly earnest, most of us, in Vermont and the atmo here is sort of refreshing.

Lucy- Have a great time in Florida! I hope you brought enough reading materials. We are enjoying some above normal temps in the Midwest, with plenty of sun, so no complaints here.....yet.

Lucy - I hope that you have a fabulous time in Florida, and that you have a delicious Thanksgiving!! It's my very favorite holiday. I'm all caught up here, believe it or not, and I had a wonderful time doing it - such great discussions over here!

✔#5 ****

Final book in The Acacia Trilogy. I had a little trouble getting back into it, as the gap between reading the first two books and this one was too wide, but I did not want to spend the time rereading two fairly long books, that I liked very much, but not enough to want to spend that kind of time. Plus as I skimmed the first two I remembered enough, I felt, to proceed. Once I did become re-engaged I flew through it. Things work out very well and most people manage, one way or another, to redeem themselves, which is refreshing when many books and stories are unrelievedly full of venal bad guys. The first book was the most traditional - almost even formulaic of the three, book 2 gradually broke away into originality and book 3 proved itself with some surprising and even moving ideas and images. Anyone who likes fantasy need not fear taking these on, and should have faith that it gets better and better. It's important too to accept, fairly early on, that 'souls' in this world, have a separate life apart from the body. There are a few 'hunh?' moments in Book 3, but the way Durham handled them was excellent and made the idea acceptable. ****

My sis-in-law lives in Sarasota so we get there fairly often. I'm not a big FL fan (too humid for my taste) but I do like Sarasota as a town. Talking about suburban pathways -- are you in Palmer's Ranch?

No - we're in Oyster Bay, I believe is what it is officially called. It's a pretty neighborhood - quite a few bungalows still remain with marvelous trees and plantings as well as some great 'allees' of protected Live Oaks. There are some pretentious homes mixed in with modest ones.... entertaining, in other words.

Maybe we'll be here at the same time one of these days. That would be fun.

Did you take Posey?

Lucy, I grew up near Daytona Beach, on the Atlantic coast, but we went to Sanibel Island for a week every August during the 1960s. There were no condos and very few hotels. Just wooden beach cabins, mostly. I remember walking out into the Gulf for what felt like miles before the depth would exceed my height.

I have the first Acacia book, Lucy, so you've inspired me to start it one day. Now that I've finished Barchester Towers, I think I can proceed with Assassin's Apprentice, which is also your fault.

I'll be sure to post when we go next -- it would be a kick to have a meet up there. No plans at the moment though and unlikely next year I'm afraid.

I wish, Tui. Posey weighs 20 lbs and she suddenly has elongated a bit -- exceeds the length for the underseat carrier..... just by a couple of inches, but unless we took a DIRECT flight it feels like a bit too long to squash her into one of the regulation dog carriers..... it's maddening because she is so CLOSE to fitting. Again - I might even stick her in the hold for a single flight, but not for two flights, it's just too long and too unpredictable - esp as the Jet Blue goes through JFK. "Wouldn't do it to a dog" applies. I really think airlines could make a lot of people a lot happier if they could think through this dog thing better. I would pay a lot to travel with my dog in a way I find acceptable. And dogs don't need snacks and cocktails or movies.

The beach drops off quite quickly where we usually go, Ellen - I'm used to the huge tides on the Cape, there's so little change here relatively - always find that strange.

Chortle, Peggy, this is blame I can take on without shame!

Maybe someday, Reba, I come down a lot and will more after our daughter goes off to college in 2014.

I agree. I would NEVER stick my dog in the hold. She simply wouldn't understand the abandonment and terror involved.
I love the book blaming that goes on around here--such a delightful sin with which to be tagged.

Snacks? Cocktails? Movies? Do they still offer those on flights?! :)

Instead of doing better by the dogs they're probably going to start putting US in the hold before long. I'm a bit of a white-knuckle flyer but, beyond that, it's just such an uncomfortable hassle to fly!! If it's possible to drive, I drive.

So, I started reading The Vanishing Act of Esme Lennox and while I see the writing is good -very good - I almost instantly divined what the deal was (can't spoil) which ordinarily would not be a problem, but (past page 50) I just thought, nope, went to the end, confirmed I'd gotten it. I want to be careful NOT to discourage anyone else from reading it - it's possible in some other mood and time and place I'll pick it up. Perhaps it is reading all the Elizabeth Taylor novels this year that has spoiled me? I was not involved at enough 'levels' from caring about the characters to detecting a lack of humor (such a huge element in a Taylor novel, no matter how biting or sad) so it just seemed too dreary.

An aside, a strange 'reference' here to Mary Lennox of The Secret Garden fame, in the choice of name and one character's experience in India.

116. ✔ #6 ***1/2

Solid sf, on the verge of being wooden here and there, but I felt that Asaro warmed up to the task: we've got FTL with a twist, telepaths, empaths, cool stuff, and a race of seriously warped psychopaths...... and an increasingly engaging story as it progresses. The first person narration doesn't always work well, feels awkward and limiting, but we'll see if she sticks with that in the rest of the series which I plan to read. It's a huge plot and we're right at the top of the pyramid with the two people who, if they survive, have a chance to change everything for the better. ***1/2

Maybe it's just me, but I find the covers of these kinds of books to be off-putting.

I love them Becky - sf covers are an acquired taste, though or something, and they have... uh..... a certain fanciful ebullience but that's just what I love.

The covers certainly have a definite "look," don't they. Wasn't that also true even years and years ago? I think I remember being turned off by Isaac Asimov exclusively because of the cover art--and that was probably when I was age 10 or so. It's funny how things strike a person--but I have an almost visceral negative reaction to those covers.

That is seriously fascinating to me. You can always tell, by the way, whether the artist bothered to read the book (50-50) and the covers by artists who really love sf and care and often quite riveting, something to refer while reading the book.

Lucy - Stopping by to wish you and your family a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday! Thanks so much for all of your help this year and for being such a lovely LT presence.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, Lucy!

Happy Thanksgiving, Lucy. Hope you have a lovely fall day and wonderful things to fill it.

I've made the stuffing. I've prepped the brussels sprouts with apples. I've got the noxious bird-meat brining in my own souped-up whiskey brine mixture. Yam nastiness baking now. Must roast the sprouts, some white potatoes with garlic, oil and rosemary, and birdie. Sweet potato pie, pecan pie, southern mincemeat pie, and apple pie all done. Life is good, but my knees and feet are killin' me! Happy holiday for you and all those you love.

Happy Thanksgiving, Lucy! :)

Happy Thanksgiving Lucy to you and yours (hopefully RD will have some leftovers of the whisky brine mixture if all else fails).

Happy Thanksgiving Lucy!

Happy Thanksgiving Lucy!

Hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving, Lucy!

Happy Thanksgiving, Lucy!

Happy Thanksgiving Lucy! Enjoy all the good company and of course the yummy food! :)

Happy Thanksgiving Lucy!

Top o' the Turkey to you, Lucy!

Well thank you everyone. I did indeed stuff royally on turkey and all the fixings. I hope all the rest of you in the US had a great meal too. It was fun being here in a suburban neighborhood and walking down the street smelling all the good cooking smells .....

Now I have to decide what to read on the way home. I have three NYers left (September) and then...... I guess I'll take a fantasy book in my carry-on back..... unless I'm deeply into a more serious book, I rarely risk starting heavier fiction on a trip in case I am not at all in the mood for it. Also I find the airport setting harder to concentrate in, generally, which isn't fair to 'good' fiction. Plus my spousal unit nabbed the William Boyd I had though I'd read next. He complains about all the books I put in my bag, but then I catch him sneaking around to my bedside table to look at what I have piled up there.....

I had a rather silly notion of reading a book a day while here. I've managed four, counting the NYers, and I hope to do in round of NYers on the plane. 5 books will then be the count, for 8 days, not too shabby. I do have one rather short book and I'm a bit tempted to see if I can squeeze it in......hmmmm....... but it's a writing craft book and I usually read those slowly, so it would be very naughty of me. So I won't do that.

117. AUGUST New Yorkers
118. ✔ sf ****

It's great to watch the beginning of the 'Alliance-Union' verse come together. Downbelow Station is a rough ride from beginning to end. Pell, the one neutral space station and planet is poised between 'Union' (way in outer space and techno, including lab bred people etc) and 'Company' (what remains of the original Earth-based space program). The independent Merchant class is caught in the middle, allegiance to no one and traditionally neutral. But things take on a life of their own and the Merchanters are faced with tough choices. - Cherryh doesn't romanticize humans, although she does firmly separate them into ethical/unethical, or civilized/uncivilized - making it clear that this aspect truly reveals only when under intense pressure. A few characters, like Captain Mallory of the Norway battle cruiser hang in between through most of the book..... but even then, you're hoping all along she'll jump the right way and for the right reasons in the end, not just because she hates being bossed around. Pell also hosts the only alien, sentient race found so far, the entirely peacable Hisa - they were hugely enjoyable - and convincingly 'different'. The planet itself does not seem to have tossed much in the way of predators at them, and they aren't meat-eaters. You gradually get that they are what they are, not at all stupid, indeed very very smart, simply not human. Oh I can't wait to keep on reading Cherryh! ****

Oh, I ate plenty yesterday! And read just a wee bit.

eek, Im very behind, but hoping you had a great holiday feast yesterday (ish).
And long may the giving of thanks continue :)

I hope you had safe travels and that the cold of Vermont wasn't too much of a shock after Florida.

Hi Lucy, just wanted to wish you a lovely weekend :)
And what I wanted to ask you already some time ago ? What is a New Yorker?

I was a big Cherryh fan, back in the day. Gosh, did I get rid of those?

What a helpful review of Downbelow Station, Lucy, thanks! I know it's considered a classic, and I've thought about reading it a number of times, but yours is the first review that actually motivates me to do that. Onto the tbr it goes.

I found a website today that is completely fascinating to me, all about "Hybrid Architecture," including creating structures out of used cargo containers. I thought of Knox when I saw this, and wondered what his take on this might be? Does it make sense?

Hybrid Architecture

Another site shows how shipping containers are being used to create multi-family condos in Detroit. The article says they've been used for student housing in Amsterdam, artists' studios, emergency shelters, health clinics, and office buildings.

Fun sites, B. I always wonder about condensation issues with these container type buildings - and insulating. The only one I've ever seen was strictly summer use.

I wondered the same thing. I watched an installation video, and then the guy gave a tour of the place. He said it was a "very tight box" and needed only a small heater, but who knows? It's an interesting concept, at any rate.

Boy, do I love Cherryh's stuff! Even though there are a couple of precursor books I've always felt I'd "all" started with Downbelow Station. Will you go on to Merchanter's Luck now?

Yes, yes yes, Tad - There may be a copy at the library though, amazingly enough, so before I order it I'll pop in today and take a look, even though I shouldn't as I appear to have acquired a cold.

#179-180 My husband was flipping through channels the other day and I saw a bit of a show on a house built out of 12 shipping containers in Brooklin, Maine. It's mainly a summer home (the couple otherwise live in NJ) but the floors are heated. Very unusual looking house for Maine. The architect, Adam Kalkin, is known for his "cargotecture". Here's a link to an article about it: http://www.ecocontainerhome.com/adam-kalkin-maine-container-house/#more-117.

Cherryh just about killed me with Downbelow Station. It was so huge and sprawling and downbeat--I just could not see how she could possible pull it all together...and then she did! I found Merchanter's Luck a lot easier and more enjoyable to read--but I really do appreciate Downbelow Station.

Hi Lucy, I feel like I've been living on another planet these past couple of weeks. It's called planet IG and my world is filled with pictures and very little words lately, somehow. It's a shame in a way, because I sort of gave up on NaNoWriMo, but I'm having fun, so I guess it's all good.

Dropping by to say hi and give a sign of life, though I'll be back to catch up on reviews. I'm particularly interested in seeing what you have to say about Mrs Palfrey at the Claremont. Yes, it's been that long. *deep blush*. xx

✔#8 ***

Scott Lynch's Lies of Locke Lamora has a zillion reviews and high praise. Why a three from me? Three reasons - a) it did that 'long' book thing (700 p.) of just dragging along with too much detail and b) for me it was just too violent, really. Lovingly detailed violence gives me the creeps. I don't have a problem with necessary violence, done with dispatch, but here you had about every kind of gross way of killing, maiming or torturing. I finished it because I kept hoping it would move on and get better - the setting was strong, the pace lively - so many things were so close for me -- characters very strong but then too many good ones killed off. Finally c) there were a smattering of women but no strong central woman character, and sorry, but I like balance in my contemporary fantasy fiction. I doubt I'll read the rest.

Ilana - I'm delighted that you are absorbed by your work, much more important than LT.

Yes, Roni, Downbelow is really quite a ride, incredible - and actually just the right book to contrast to Locke Lamora - it is tremendously violent but not lovingly. Quite the opposite in fact.

I can't believe that I was 42 messages behind in only 3 or 4 days. I know there were a lot of Thanksgiving greetings, but sheesh! I envy you your 5 books and don't quite understand why I'm not doing as well. Anyhow, *Locke L* is one that I won't be rushing toward.

Just lurking.

Just lurking, part deux.

I've never gotten beyond the first chapter or two of Lies of Locke Lamora for that very reason, the cherishing of violence. I'm thinking maybe I should just discard it without reading, given your response to it--mine would probably be very similar.

Hi Lucy, thank you very much for your kind words pertaining my sisters recovery.

I think I belong to the group which very much enjoyed The Lies of Locke Lamora. However, I listened to the unabridged audiobook version narrated by Michael Page which was very well done.

I agree, Roni. I think you could pass it on w/no regrets.

Hi there lurkers!

I try hard not to write a judgmental review, just that it doesn't cut it for my -- tastes? Partic. with fantasy I don't really care if everyone improbably survives if I like the plot, details and setting. I mean I KNOW it isn't reality.....I don't want any reality.

So I'm on a different reading track, a break from my sf/fan roll and I've picked up The Sea, The Sea by Iris Murdoch - a little way in, I'm intrigued. One thing I find fascinating is how a really good writer can appear to be writing digressively (the narrator, first person is writing random-seeming journal entries) but it's not, they are craftily revealing what needs to be revealed for the 'action' - such as it will be - to make sense. So I trust Iris when her protag. drones on about trivial matters - although actually some of it, like the 4-minute cookbook idea, is very funny. And in fact the meals he 'cooks' are assemblages and most of them have just one thing that twists it a little into making you flinch a little, but just a little, so it's subtle. You have to pay attention.

Hi back :-)

Interesting. I may put *LL* up on PBS too and let it go, but I didn't start it but once.
The Sea, The Sea was my least favorite IM when I read quite a few 20 or so years ago. I think I just could not bear the narrator - not the rambling so much as the self-serving zero-ness of him.

>187 sibylline:: I had no real problem getting through The Lies of Locke Lamora. I found the world interesting, mixed reviews on the depth of characterization, weak ending. I did read the sequel, to which I wasn't quite as partial. However, I deliberately stopped the series (without going to the 3rd) upon learning that Scott Lynch is struggling with some personal issues and wasn't really sure how well he'd be able to complete the 7 book series. I have no patience for Jordan-Rothfuss-Martin syndrome right now.

For me, it's what Lucy said about violence.

Lovingly detailed violence gives me the creeps. I don't have a problem with necessary violence, done with dispatch, but here you had about every kind of gross way of killing, maiming or torturing.

That's what turns me off big time.

He really is an ass, isn't he Peggy? But I love those ghastly meals he so relishes. I'm trying to take it in the spirit of Iris 'sending up' that sort of man from that generation. I feel greatly helped that I read the Iris bio by her husband. I feel I do know something about her and where she was coming from, what she is up to, and it does help.

Re: The Sea, The Sea it was hard for me not to see him as alternately dithering and whittering. But in the end, it came together, I won't say satisfyingly, but completely.

>179 labwriter:
We have a container mall in out centre city, since the earthquakes the CBD has been out of bounds as they continue to demolish dangerous buildings, and this pop-up mall is as close as we can get now.



This is the cafe where I met with Paul and his family when they visited!

>199 sibylline:: Iris 'sending up' that sort of man from that generation.
She does that a lot in her novels. A Severed Head was my favorite example of "middle-aged man gets his comeuppance".

>201 LovingLit: Gosh, one would think those containers would bounce around if there was another quake..... but they do look cheerful enough and I hope, do the job well enough?

Laura - when I 'tried' Iris before I think I was too young to get the subtleties - now I find myself snorting and chuckling constantly. The meals, though, are really killing me.

I would like to read another Murdoch, but I am not sure which one to pick up next. The only one that I have read so far is A Severed Head, and I loved that one. Is there one you would recommend, Lucy?

Yes, that would be my question as well. Can you recommend a Murdoch for someone who has never read her before? I think the one I have on my shelf (now in a box) is The Black Prince. I remember starting it one time and feeling like I wasn't in the mood for it.

Tried Murdoch in my mid-twenties and it was hit or miss - don't remember which ones I read and which ones I liked. It would be interesting to try her again, but I don't think it's in the cards for me.

However, this thread has been very bad for my fantasy TBR pile!

Mwahh ha ha! - that's for >206 markon:. LT has just about been fatal for me in the fantasy/sf department!

I am in the same boat as you folks, I tried Murdoch in my twenties and just didn't get it. Now I think I do get it - I have this one and one other ---- lemme go see ----- The Bell - I'm thinking I might read "A Murdoch per month" until I get sick of it. Starting with the two I've got. I think it would be cool to just read whatever you get your hands on and pass the word around about what each book is like.

The dairy farmer who rents our upper and lower fieldd is doing the winter poop-spread and man oh man it is schmelly!!!! Eye-wateringly intense. It's worse when they do it in summer though. The cold kind of takes the starch out of the smell. But I'll have to avoid the fields and take a leash until the snow covers it all up. Not good for little Poseys.

A Murdoch per month would be too aggressive for me, but I certainly think I'm ready to try her again--not that I can say I gave her that much of a try. I like your idea of reading whatever and passing along thoughts about each book. A Murdoch Marathon.

Love your dairy farmer story. I can't remember, does your family eat meat? Do you get your meat locally? I recently bought The Butcher's Guide to Well-Raised Meat, and it's a startlingly wonderful book. I so wish my butcher-father-in-law could have lived to see this book, with the blurb on the back: "With a food revolution sweeping the nation, the butcher has reemerged in American culture as an essential guide to avoiding the evils of industrial meat, which not only tastes bad, but is also bad for one's health and for the environment." Well--I do think that might go a little far, if that last bit is referring to AlGore's "cow flatulence" being a cause of global warming. However, this is an unexpectedly fascinating (also irreverently humorous) book about meat. I only bought it so that I would know a flank from a shank and what to do with each, but this thing, which is part memoir, guide, manifesto, and reference--is just fascinating. OK, book rant over, I forgot this isn't my thread--haha.

Added. Sigh. What a waste, that we (speaking for myself) don't know enough when we're young to talk to our elders about their work. My father was a salesman--he could sell anything--and he took all that knowledge with him to his grave. I often think of him, and the discussions I would like to have now.

>203 sibylline: no shakes here in a long time thank goodness! And the containers are pretty well balanced and bolted :)

Good luck with your Murdoch a Month! I tried one once, admired the writing but could barely grasp the storyline. I would probably try another one. One day.

I might join in on a Murdoch Marathon.
Or maybe a Murdoch 10K.....
I've never read her work and have "always wanted to do so."

I remember that smell when driving through part of the Willamette Valley when they were using those huge sprinklers to fertilize large fields with water-poop mixture. It was pretty darn horrid.

When we were living in Philly and came up to Vermont often, our daughter would suddenly sniff and say, "We're in Vermont, right?" (The road we got on right after leaving NY state has a series of big dairy farms!).

That would be so great to join..... maybe I'll make a thread for Murdoch - have to think up a catchy name though.

A Murdoch thread--what a great idea. What a good idea to have one place for everyone's comments.

That's cute--able to smell when you're in Vermont.

I like the idea of a Murdoch thread, too, Lucy.

Maybe I'll just go ahead and make one! Murdoch - I think I'll call it Murdoch & Mayhem. I'll be back with a link. Here it is: Murdoch & Mayhem

Thanks, Lucy!

>208 labwriter:: I liked reading your Post.

I live surrounded by farms. Eau de Poo is a frequent fragrance on the wind, especially in autumn when they prepare their fields for the winter. I find it strangely comforting that farmers are working their farms still using time honoured methods.

Tui - thanks for highlighting that post of B's - I lost track of it..... didn't respond properly.

B - We are meat-eaters - I tease my spousal unit that he is mostly Neandertal (they mainly ate protein - meat and fish - ). My daughter seems to be more or less the same as he is, wilts without the hit that meat gives. I could probably live on beans (sequestered on a desert island, that is) as I don't 'need' meat the way they do. They are both lactose-intolerant which creates massive culinary challenges - our culture is so dairy oriented. I've become sort of a sneak cheese eater, buying little bits here and there and eating them alone at lunchtime when no one is looking. A bit sad as Vermont cheeses get more and more delicious by the minute!

Growing yr. own meat is tricky - we tried pigs and lambs (with friends, communally, back in the day) - each one once and while the pork was great, the lamb was gamey, we had a hard time feeding them enough, fattening them up, plus they had too much fun running around, plus it was ghastly (understatement) when the time came. I'm glad we did it, but I knew from the get-go it would be a disaster. (I did, in fact, live on a farm for a part of my childhood and we kept the pigs we had far far far from our lives, my stepfather told us not to get to know them at all, and he was right.) The best local meat here seems to come from small-ish to medium (not tiny, I mean) farms that are concentrating on one or two types of animals, say poultry and beef. Big enough to be the suppliers to local restaurants (and some non-local ones in the big apple, say) but small enough so that the animals have a good balanced life, some frolicking, but also some sensible practices that encourage a little less running around toward the end.

A very old man (and I mean late 80's) who was 'the' butcher supremo when we moved here (in a tiny ramshackle store at a sort of crossroads town 20 minutes away) - and everyone would make the trek there to get his 'cuts' works at our newish and wonderful local market - it's his life - and the man who runs this new market really values him. He is a total darling - gruff old thing, but I've been working on him. I don't buy enough beef for his tastes. - He cuts the meat in back, or directs the cutting, then they package it, and then he spends most of the day slowly creakily putting the meat out in the display. It's been over 30 years, but he doesn't seem all that much 'older' than when I first encountered him, just a bit smaller and more bent over. Maybe he's in his 90's?

OK that is a long post and quite enough.

Back again - to report on reading. I'm a little over halfway through Hal Clement's Needle - at moments I 'remember' some little detail or realize, oh, that's where I read this. There is, again, this careful methodical writing, this attempt to convince the reader with 'details' common to SF of this period. But if you stop for even a second to question anything, it all falls apart. I also have to read about viruses, where the research and knowledge is 60 years down the road. But the faith in technology is almost touching, I have to say. I'll have more to say (and I'll probably repeat this a bit) when I'm done.

Arctic Dreams appropriately is moving at a glacial pace - I'm approaching 150 of 400 p. after a week hiatus while I was away. We've 'done' seals, polar bears, and now we're on narwahls - as in nature shows - first you learn about the animal then you have the joy of learning how we destroy the habitat, kill, maim, and otherwise carelessly abuse them.

The Sea, the sea is really the comic relief in all this. But I am finding a weird synergy between the protag. and his 'style' of reporting on things (hyper-rationality) and Clement's style. Iris is, of course, making fun of it. As in, no matter how rationally you write about it, when you are seeing monsters, no amount of careful description of what you had for dinner will cancel out that irrationality.

I learned when I was helping my cousin on his alpaca farm that I am not emotionally disposed to be a farmer or raiser of animals. My cousin had given me a beautiful dark brown alpaca named "Betty Davis' Eyes" or Betty, for short. If you've ever looked in an alpaca's eyes, you will understand.

All one summer on my cousin's farm, I was happily learning all about taking care of alpacas, and in the interest of being thorough, I signed up for a seminar given by an Australian alpaca farmer. Wow, did I get an earful that weekend! What I learned from him was that we Americans idiotically treat these animals like pets. They are raised commercially for their fleece--that's the only point in breeding and raising alpacas. After about 6 years, the best animals have fleece that is no longer commercially viable. In Australia, at that point the animal is put on a truck and taken to the slaughter house. How do you slaughter someone named Betty? Yet if you don't, that animal instantly becomes an economic drag on your farm. The vet bills alone for this animals are outrageous, let alone the cost of food, and they can live to be 20 years old or more. That's the definition of "unsustainable."

I came home from that weekend and gave Betty back to my cousin, wished him well with his enterprise, and moved on. From that experience, I know I could never raise pigs (or anything else), for the same reason. One of them would undoubtedly be named Charlotte, and I'd be stuck with an aging and ever-fattening pig. Oh, I just read something the other day: Cats look down on us; dogs look up to us; but pigs see us as equals. Ha.

So raising the animals will have to be done by someone else; but I'm more than happy to support my local butcher.

I love your "butcher supremo" story, Sib. My father-in-law was a real schmoozer with the ladies; he was a wonder to behold behind that meat counter. Between Tony and his customers, I think it was something of a mutual admiration society. Those women loved him--ha.

Oh dear, I think Arctic Dreams is not for me.

Hi Lucy,
Ok... I am intrigued by the Murdock discussions and new thread. I have not read a thing by her but will be looking for something by her next year to report on.

Sneaking cheese in Vermont? Oh you poor dear. How sad. I couldn't live w/o cheese and I am now buying Cabot's Seriously Sharp religiously. If it kills me, it kills me. I'll die happy.

It's Empire cheese up here in my neck of the woods: their extra old cheddar is to live for!

Dropping in to wish you a lovely weekend, Lucy. And you poor, poor baby to have to sneak the dairy products!

Having just finished my *Mrs Woolf*, I feel free to pull a Murdoch, and what jumped out was The Time of the Angels, one that I haven't read and know nothing about. I didn't even know that I owned it. Good choice!
As to carnivores, I'm one. I do remember my grandmama's tale about her pig. (She was born in 1885, so this story is relatively old.) When she was a school-girl, she made a pet of one of the family's pigs. It would be waiting for her when she got out of school to walk home. She loved it. When it was grown, they slaughtered it, and she ate the pork without a qualm the next winter. I was never her equal in any way, and I certainly couldn't have done that.
I'm a cheese lover too and thankful not to be lactose intolerant.