Wherein The_Hibernator Begins Anew

Here's a callout to all of you 2013 75ers!

My name's Rachel, and I've been a member of LibraryThing since 2008 and a member of 75ers since 2012. I just moved back home to the Twin Cities area, and I feel like I am beginning anew. :) I'm a scientist by career, but I'm interested in all sorts of books including literature, genre fiction, classics, and a variety of non-fiction. I enjoy discussions on books, philosophical discussions, and silliness, so everyone is welcome on my thread!

If you're a book blogger, let me know! My blog is here: http://rachelreadingnthinking.blogspot.com/

Books Read in December:

Goblin Secrets, by William Alexander
Three Men in a Boat, by Jerome K. Jerome
The Arcade Catastrophe, by Brandon Mull
The Fox Inheritance, by Mary E. Pearson
The Haven, by Suzanne Woods Fisher
A Christmas Carol, by Charles Dickens
The Old Curiosity Shop, by Charles Dickens

Books Completed in January:

The Magician's Nephew, by C. S. Lewis
Losing Christina: Fog, by Caroline B. Cooney
The Last Battle, by C. S. Lewis
The Hour Between Dog and Wolf: Risk Taking, Gut Feelings, and Biology of Boom and Bust, by John Coates
Call It Courage, by Armstrong Sperry
Hitty: Her First Hundred Years, by Rachel Field
Sense and Sensibility, by Jane Austen
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, by J. K. Rowling
Midnight Riot, by Ben Aaronovitch
Preludes and Nocturnes, by Neil Gaiman

Currently Reading:

Paradise Lost (Norton Critical Edition), by John Milton
Hamlet, by William Shakespeare
The Princess and the Goblin, by George MacDonald
Mountains Beyond Mountains, by Tracy Kidder
The Last Unicorn, by Peter S. Beagle
Unnatural Issue, by Mersedies Lackey

January Stats

Books Purchased: 0
Books Read: 10
Books off Shelves: 5
Library Books: 5
Audiobooks: 3
ebooks: 1
Women Authors: 4/10
Pearl Ruled: 1

Young Adult & Children's: 7
Non-Fiction: 1

I'm here! But you probably knew that already.

Yay! My first visitor! Welcome!

Do I count as a visitor if I camp out under your bed at night?

Well, that would be difficult since right now all I have is a mattress and boxsprings. I'm not sure an actual frame would fit in my room. It's sort of like a dorm room where you either move all the furniture out of the room if you want to walk/vacuum, or you simply jump from piece of furniture to piece of furniture. Gotta love the cupboard under the stairs! :p

Hi Rachel! *waves*

Ok, I lied. I hide under your dads bed. Either way.

:P

>7 wilkiec: Hi Diana!

>8 Ape: Yeah, that would work better.

You know how hard it is to quietly eat a bag of Sun Chips in the middle of the night under there?

Try soaking them in water first.

Hi Rachel! I believe we chatted in the 12 in 12 group, before I failed miserably at that project. Anyway, I always enjoyed your comments, so I'm starring your thread here.

Happy New Year!

Hi Kerri! I dwindled away from the 12 in 12 group too...because I made the challenge too easy for myself and got bored. I'm not really sure I want to try a more challenging challenge this year, though, because I like to have a little spontaneity!

#13 - I think I made mine a bit too strict, which resulted in a severe lack of enjoyment. This year, I'm keeping track of a few broad categories here, while giving myself room to be somewhat spontaneous....well, as spontaneous as I'm able to be. I tend to be kind of plan-oriented and neurotic. Ha!

Hi Rachel. Stopping by to star your 2013 thread. Happy New Year!

>14 DorsVenabili: I go through planning and spontaneous phases. I don't mind planning as long as I feel no guilt for breaking the plans. ;)

>15 JechtShot: Hi Nick! Welcome to my cozy new thread!

11: Brilliant! What if I leave a puddle?

>17 Ape: Drink it. You have a tongue, don't you?

*Tries to look at his own tongue* Uhhhhh...

Hi Rachel - starred you!

Hi Rhian! Welcome to the new thread!

Um ya, that is a familiar bridge - Stone Arch Bridge - but I've never seen it from that angle.

Looks like you've got some good reading lined up. Are you going to do the category challenge too?

@17 Ape - you're just going to have to eat your sun chips in a litter box then! Or find a way to blame it on a dog. Primates have been blaming the dog for centuries.

Hi Katie! I've decided to be more spontaneous this year, so I'm not planning on doing a category challenge. Though I might regret that later! :p

Hi Rachel, I've seen you around the 2012 threads and thought I'd take the opportunity of the new year to get acquainted with some new people and new threads!

Welcome back!

Hi Rachel, thanks for stopping by my thread! It took a bit of time but I have finally managed to make it over to your thread and wanted to stop by and wish you a Happy New Year! Spontaneous reading in 2013 sounds like a fantastic plan. Leaving a star so I can find your thread!

*lifts shoe on exiting thread to remove Sun Chip stuck to bottom of shoe*

Now how did that get there?!?!

Spontaneous reading sounds good! & if you regret, you can always make up categories for yourself later. I think the TIOLI's can keep ya plenty busy if you're missing structure. To be honest, I'm not sure I can keep up in both challenges -- but we've got bacon bits and soggy Sun Chips over hear. That's a plus. ;)

Hi Rachel! I've seen you around LT as well as blog-land. Looking forward to following your reading here.

Lovely to see you back, love the bridge, starred and happy new yeared!

Happy New Year, Rachel!

Bright blessings for a new year!

2013 Book 1: The Magician's Nephew, by C. S. Lewis

Reason for Reading: I'm finishing up the Narnia chronicles in order-of-publication. This is the penultimate book. I chose to read this book NOW because of a Classics Children's Literature Challenge in the blogging world.

Review
When Digory's evil magician uncle tricks Polly into entering another world, Digory must rescue her. Their adventure heightens when they discover an evil witch and then witness the creation of Narnia. This is the first time I've read this adorable classic. I've heard it was the book that Lewis meant to start the series with, but it was so difficult to write that he put it off until he had developed Narnia a bit more. It's probably good that he did, because I enjoyed seeing references to the earlier books...like the story of how the light-post ended up in the middle of a forest in Narnia. I look forward to re-reading this book later (this year?) when I read them in chronological order.

32: I reread the series a few years ago, wondering whether I'd assess it differently than I had as a kid, but I still preferred the same ones: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, The Magician's Nephew, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe.

Happy New Year Rachel!!

>33 qebo: Those are my faves too. In that order.

Happy New Year, Rachel!

Wow--a book done already! Yours is the first one I've seen in my thread hopping/star scattering/New Years greeting morning.

>24 katiekrug: Hi Katie Good to have you here! I'll stop by your thread. :)

>25 drneutron: Thanks Jim!

>26 lkernagh: Thanks for stopping by Lori! Try to wipe off your feet before going into anyone else's thread! ;)

>27 cammykitty: I agree Katie. I can always add more structure later.

>28 lauralkeet: Thanks for stopping by Laura! I've seen your blog around the blogosphere too. :)

>29 PaulCranswick: Hi Paul! Thanks for stopping by! Should be a good year.

>30 wilkiec: Thanks Diana!

>31 Morphidae: Thanks Morphy! I'll see you in RL soon. ;)

>33 qebo: Hi Katherine! My favorites are probably The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, The Silver Chair, and The Horse's Boy, in no particular order. But I rather liked all of them.

>34 norabelle414: Thanks Nora! Except. Wait. What is this? 10am? Why didn't I get a midnight Happy New Year post?!

>35 streamsong: Hi Janet! It's a short book.

HI Rachel, found you and starred you!
And again, a wonderful and happy 2013 to you under your cupboard under the stairs *grin*.

Already finished book one? Very good review :) I am planning to re-read them at one point as well.

I just noticed today, that it appears that I am the only one on LT who didn't give The Rape of Nanking high stars. Well, nevermind. I am planning to read this year the diaries of John Rabe, to (maybe) get another impression about this part of history.

>36 The_Hibernator: I was asleep at midnight!

(just kidding, I was actually knitting in bed, listening to an audiobook. But if anyone asks, I was asleep.)

Haha, you know what? I was awake too. I was at a friend's house watching a movie with her and her parents. :) We're the party animals, aren't we?

>38 norabelle414: Nora I was actually knitting in bed, listening to an audiobook. But if anyone asks, I was asleep.) LOL that could definately be me :)

Happy New Thread!

I'm looking forward to following your reading adventures in 2013, Rachel!

I started Wonder Struck by Brian Selznick last night. It's a fast read with lots of pictures. (If you can call that a read.)

Hanging a big star at the top of your thread, Rachel. It looks like January will be a good reading month for you with two down and several waiting to be finished. Here's to a wonderful new year of good books!

>40 drachenbraut23: Could have been me, too, but I don't know how to knit. Seems like a useful occupation, though. Perhaps I should learn.

>41 leahbird: Thanks Leah!

>42 rosalita: Thanks Julia!

>43 patito-de-hule: I bet you'll finish it before Johnny finishes The Invention of Hugo Cabret

>44 Donna828: Thanks for stopping by Donna! :)

#32 The Magician's Nephew was one of my favourite Narnia books as a child, only beaten by The Voyage of the Dawn Treader. I remember really liking the portrayal of the dead world of Charn(?), and the way the magic came into the real world. I must have read all the Narnia books over and over again such a lot because when I came to read them to my son I found the phraseology still in my my head from all those years ago.

I love The Magician's Nephew also. I was bummed that they didn't jump back to it for the movies since, with each progressive film, it seems much less likely that they will keep making the movies until they cycle back around to it. After The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe, that's the one I was most excited about.

Thanks for visiting my thread and welcoming me to the group. Here to star your thread so I can follow along this year! :)

I just wanted to let you know that, after 2 days of tunneling, I have finally finished digging a hole beneath your bed, so I can officially say that I am living under it now, in a spacious cavern that I am quite proud of. I want to reassure you that I have build supports to keep your bed from falling in, however I would avoid stressing them by, say, jumping on the bed, or having more than 2 cats and a hardcover book on it at the same time. In fact, when you roll over at night, do so very gently, and if you need to fluff your pillow do so by lifting the pillow in the air and using your hands - as opposed to being it with your head. You know, just to be safe. Ummm, I'm sure it'll be fine.

*Sigh* I'm almost sad I just spent so much time typing that up. *Rolls eyes*

>49 Ape: Down under the concrete where the septic tank was??? Sheeeeesh!

Well, to each his own, I always say.

Oooh, I've always loved The Magician's Nephew... some part of me relates rather well to the utter insanity of the story. I really should read it again sometime soon...

Well, I just finished Wonder Struck and it was well worth the effort. Easy read and a happy ending.

> 52 hi patito, I know that you read Oryx and Crake and if I am not mistaken The Year of the Flood towards the end of last year. What did you think about them?

And what about starting your own thread?

It wasn't a leaky septic tank, was it?

As long as it's where the septic tank WAS, and not still is.........

I'm mostly concerned about the large mound of potentially bacteria-ridden dirt I've left piled up in the neighbor's yard...

>46 SandDune: Rhian You know, this is the first time I'm reading them all the way through. I've read The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe a few times, but I wasn't good at finishing series when I was a kid. I'm glad I finally did!

>47 leahbird: Leah Yeah, I'm not sure they'll get all the way to The Magician's Nephew, which is too bad. :(

>48 TinaV95: Hi Tina!

>49 Ape:, 50 Stephen and dad Is that what that smell is? I'll try to remain very still and calm while on my bed.

>51 dk_phoenix: Faith Yeah, it's a fun book to re-read I'm guessing. You should give it a try. :)

>52 patito-de-hule: Dad Glad you liked it. I'll try it out later this year.

>53 drachenbraut23: Bianca Dad's not that social. Too much pressure might make him disappear. :p His sister is on LibraryThing daily, and reads my threads but she never comments because she's "too shy" ;)

>54 Ape: Stephen Don't they all leak?

>55 lunacat: Lunacat Agreed. Though to each his own, I guess!

>56 Ape: Stephen don't think about it as bacteria-ridden dirt. Think of it as Nitrogen-rich dirt.

2013 Book 2: Losing Christina: Fog, by Caroline B. Cooney

Reason for Reading: I had hit a reading slump and wanted to perk myself up by reading something "exciting." I was browsing through the ebooks at my library, and found this. I remembered how much I loved it when I was a child and thought "I wonder how bad it could be?" So I borrowed it. I'm rather glad I did!

Review
Christina is excited because this year she is 13 and she gets to leave the island she grew up on and attend junior high on the mainland in Maine. Despite her excitement, she is torn by worry about whether she'll be bullied by the mainland kids, who think islanders are stupid and poor. But those worries soon take second place when she realizes that the owners of the bed and breakfast that she and her islander friends lodge at are using psychological torment to suck the souls out of girls. She's terrified as she watches the beautiful and brilliant senior Anya fade away. And soon the psychopaths are after her own mind.

When I was pre-junior high I used to gobble up these Point Horror books like a turkey dinner. (haha. ok, I know that wasn't funny. Just work with it.) There are very few of those books that I actually remember liking though. This is one that has really stuck with me through the years. When I found it in the library recently I thought: "I wonder..." And I'm glad I did, because I found this book terrifying. When I was a teenager, I think I found the spooky psychological aspects of going insane scary. Now, the book is even more terrifying, but for a different reason. Those psychopath adults who have FULL control over those poor children were horrible! They were charming, and fantastic liars, and those kids' parents weren't around to see what was going on. They just believed whatever the adults told them rather than believing their own children. And the things those psychopaths said to the kids! Ohhhhh shudder. Yes, the book lacked subtlety. But the fact that it terrified me even now gets it four stars in my blog! My only complaint (besides the lack of subtlety - which is really due to its target audience) is that it ended in a cliffhanger. This is a trilogy of short books. It really should be one longer book. Even combined, I think the book would still be reasonably short. But it WAS Point Horror, after all. They had to be short.

I'm not well-versed in septic tanks, so I haven't a clue.

Hmmmm, at your current pace I predict you will read 243 books this year! Okay, so maybe the current sample is too small to make an accurate projection, so maybe I should be more cautious and predict you will read...ummmm...240. Yes, 240, now you have to live up to that expectation!

Ha! I'll aim for 150 again this year. All of the books that I've finished were started in December during my reading slump. And most of them are small.

Aim for quality, not quantity

>53 drachenbraut23: "hi patito, I know that you read Oryx and Crake and if I am not mistaken The Year of the Flood towards the end of last year. What did you think about them?"

Hi, Bianca. I loved Oryx and Crake and The Year of the Flood (four stars each; I deduct one from each because I'm such a prude.) I'm not writing a review because they've been reviewed by so many people already. Oryx and Crake tells the story from the point of view of those who live in the compounds. That is fitting for what Norman Frye and Margaret Atwood have called the "garrison mentality" of Canadian literature. Toby shows up right at the end of Oryx and Crake.

The Year of the Flood tells the same narrative from the point of view of the Pleeblanders, those who live outside of the compounds, specifically the POV of one of the cults, God's Gardeners. It is divided into sectiions, each beginning with a sermon by Adam One and a song from the hymn book of God's Gardners. The sections alternatively tell the story from Toby's POV or from Ren's POV. Ren's parts are always in the first person and Toby's in the third person.

I haven't quite finished it because I have a short attention span and get easily distracted. What I now suspect is that the third book of the trilogy (when it comes out) will take the two threads and intertwine them. I expect some remarkable twists in that book, but I can only guess about Professor Atwood's intentions.

"And what about starting your own thread?"

Rachel pretty much hit the answer. One reason I started here was to keep up communication while she was in Ohio. But I do have a lot of social anxiety and am using her as a crutch. I had told her that when she moved back to Minnesota I would probably quit posting.

Hi Rachel, Great review on Losing Christina: Fog, whatever helps to get someone out of a slump. :) For myself it was Perdido Street Station and Warbreaker *smile*

Are you going to carry on your group read of Milton's Paradise Lost this year? I would be very much interested to further follow your thread?

> 62 Thanks patito for the information on the books, I started Oryx and Crake this evening :)
I sincerly hope you don't quit posting, because you have got Rachel now in her little room under the staircase :) Hm, I (and I think a lot of other folk here as well) would miss your interesting contributions you make to this thread. :( And I do believe that social anxiety can be easily overcome here, as we are just writing to each other :)

61: Ah, but you can't know the quality of a book until you read it, so you might as well read as many as you can. :)

Some people judge books by the cover, Stephen.

Oooooooooh, shiiiiinyyyyy....

Yes Stephen, what about some lovely looking men on the cover *swoon*

*Shudders* I definitely judge those books by their covers...

HI RACHEL'S AUNT! I KNOW YOU'RE READING THIS!

Hi, Rachel. Found you and starred you.

2013 Book 3: The Last Battle, by C. S. Lewis

Reason for reading: This is the seventh (and final) book in the Chronicles of Narnia, which I've been reading in order-of-publication. I plan on rereading them all in chronological order using Planet Narnia: The Seven Heavens in the Imagination of C. S. Lewis, by Michael Ward as a guide.

Review
The final book in The Chronicles of Narnia depicts the apocalypse of Narnia. When a shrewd monkey teams up with Calormen to trick the Narnians into thinking Aslan has returned - and they are his spokespeople - Narnia is cut to ruins. Forests are destroyed, Narnians begin to doubt Aslan, and cities fall to heathen invaders. I'm afraid to say this was my least favorite of the Narnia books (though I still liked it quite well!). Intellectually, I know Lewis had to have an apocalypse - whatever begins must also end - but it was still a bit dreary. So although I understand why the apocalypse had to come, I still liked the other books so much better. Not only because they were much more cheerful, but also because they had more fun-filled adventure.

However, despite my misgivings about uplifting-yet-dreary endings, I want to address Philip Pullman's opinions about the Narnia series. WARNING: This commentary will have spoilers for the Narnia series! In his 1998 article in The Guardian, The Darkside of Narnia, Pullman stated his opinion about the Narnia series: “there is no doubt in my mind that it is one of the most ugly and poisonous things I've ever read.” Pullman is an atheist, and he believes that the being-dead-in-Heaven-is-better-than-being-alive-on-Earth philosophy is "life-hating." It is unsurprising, therefore, that he feels The Last Battle is "one of the most vile moments in the whole of children's literature." Happily, I disagree with his anger at this belief in Heaven. Even though I found The Last Battle to be a bit dreary, I appreciated the message of love and Heavenly gift that Lewis was portraying.

Pullman continues to say:

But that's par for the course. Death is better than life; boys are better than girls; light-coloured people are better than dark-coloured people; and so on. There is no shortage of such nauseating drivel in Narnia, if you can face it.

I agree that Narnia conveys some rather sexist and ethnocentric views, but that's what English literature of that period was like. Lewis (and the Narnia books) are a product of their time.

I don't think any of those arguments is strong enough to merit my discussion alone. The reason I felt moved to discuss Pullman's opinions are in this paragraph (which I unfortunately read before completing the series):

And in The Last Battle, notoriously, there's the turning away of Susan from the Stable (which stands for salvation) because "She's interested in nothing nowadays except nylons and lipstick and invitations. She always was a jolly sight too keen on being grown-up." In other words, Susan, like Cinderella, is undergoing a transition from one phase of her life to another. Lewis didn't approve of that. He didn't like women in general, or sexuality at all, at least at the stage in his life when he wrote the Narnia books. He was frightened and appalled at the notion of wanting to grow up. Susan, who did want to grow up, and who might have been the most interesting character in the whole cycle if she'd been allowed to, is a Cinderella in a story where the Ugly Sisters win.

When I read this paragraph, I wondered what Lewis actually did do with Susan in the book. But when I read the book, I interpreted those events differently than Pullman: Susan wasn't allowed into Heaven at that time. It was made clear that Susan was in one of the silly stages of life, but it was just a stage. She still had a chance to grow out of it. She hadn't been rejected from Heaven permanently, and it wasn't her time to die. Susan lived. And Susan had the ability to change (just as Pullman points out). Lewis wasn't saying that grown-ups can't go to Heaven. After all, the kids' parents went to Heaven, didn't they? Lewis was saying that Susan was in a phase where she idolized material things - and had thus turned away from her spiritual health.

Also, I'm not certain Susan really is the most interesting character. By Pullman's definition (he-who-changes-is-most-interesting) I believe Eustace's character developed much more than Susan's character. Why is Pullman ignoring Eustace?

What do other people think about Susan's character? Do you think Lewis meant for her to be denied Heaven permanently?

>66 Ape: Stephen I prefer colorful or unique, personally

>67 drachenbraut23: Bianca Haha. I avoid those books. :)

>68 Ape: Mmmmhmmmm

>69 norabelle414: :) haha

>70 tymfos: Hi Terri!

For a second, I thought you meant colorful and unique-looking men. I wouldn't blame you, I'm currently playing a science fiction video game where you can 'romance' your fellow crew mates, and I confess to having a difficult time staying away from the colorful and unique-looking alien ladies. :P

#71 by @The_Hibernator> What I remember most from reading The Last Battle long ago was being well and truly creeped out. It was uncomfortable for me, a spiritualist. I was NOT a fan. Possibly unsurprising that I am, however, a huge fan of Philip Pullman. Well, his books. His personal comments on things tend to be a tad extreme.

>73 Ape: Colorful and unique looking men like those in Oryx and Crake? They are called "Crakers."

Hi Rachel, another great review. I really think I should try to re-read these books one day (or maybe I just listen to them). When I read them several years back, I didn't complete all books because I got eventually bored. However, after reading your extensive review I feel, I would like to give them another try. Especially, in regards to the comments by Pullman and his opinion of the books.

I read on Stephen's thread that you are considering to read Warm Bodies a book which has been on my TBR for some time. You reminded me to bring it nearer to the top :)

I was soo lazy today. I started Oryx and Crake last night and felt initially a little confused, but that has settled in the morning and then I got hooked. I am a bit 1/2 way through now. It's really scary.

Wish you a great weekend!

>74 leahbird: I feel exactly the same way.

I read a story by Neil Gaiman in Fragile Things that I loved, called "The Problem of Susan", which was about Susan's life after all of her family died, told from her point of view. It was heartbreaking.

SPOILERS

I HATED The Last Battle. I gave it a 2 - the lowest rating I give a book that I've actually finished. I wasn't commenting on books at that time so don't remember all the reasons but I do remember that I thought that all the characters dying (except Susan) was stupid and pointless.

Not that I have a strong opinion or anything. :D

#77 by @norabelle414> Gonna have to look that up. Gaiman is so good.

ETA: One of the weird things is the concept that, if Susan isn't barred from Heaven forever, she was actually saved from DEATH by being less religiously focused than the others. She got to live on and experience things and make her own conclusions and POSSIBLY come around to being religious. Which is what SHOULD be seen as a great opportunity. The others just got to die... That freaked me out. "Oh thank you for being a believer and devoting your life to me. To say thanks, I'm gonna just end it now. Prematurely. Before you get to experience what the real world is." Weird.

Which is sad because I did like most of the others.

>79 leahbird: That's what freaked me out, too. If I recall, The Problem of Susan isn't that she didn't go to heaven, it's that her entire family died and she was left completely alone.

#79 + #80

I haven't read all of them, but know the general idea and have read quotes from all of the books. I dislike them anyway, but that's not what grates me the wrong way.

The worst thing about the end is that Susan isn't part of it because she is described as a 'vain' girl who is only interested in herself, her looks and boys. As if that is unusual for a young lady. As if that is enough to deny a girl who was devoted and faithful and strong the chance of eternal happiness.

Also, the idea that death is the ultimate happiness, instead of trying to work with what you've got in the real world. That only the 'good' die young and others are subjected to life on Earth until they get old. Seems odd to me somehow.

>74 leahbird: Leah Although I think Pullman is intelligent, I didn't like His Dark Materials because I felt I was being beaten over the head with his anti-religion Message. For someone who despises messages, I felt he lacked subtlety and allowed his Message to overpower the plot. He did a little too much of telling his message in dialog and narrative lectures when he could have done more showing of his message by plot. Not that I'm saying C. S. Lewis didn't do his share of telling rather than showing...but Lewis' message seemed a little less venomous to me.

>76 drachenbraut23: Hi Bianca! Glad you're liking Oryx and Crake! I'm looking forward to reading it myself.

>77 norabelle414: Nora I read a story by Neil Gaiman in Fragile Things that I loved, called "The Problem of Susan", which was about Susan's life after all of her family died, told from her point of view. It was heartbreaking.

I'll have to check it out. I love Gaiman.

>78 Morphidae: Morphy, NARNIA SPOILERS I do remember that I thought that all the characters dying (except Susan) was stupid and pointless.

Yeah, I felt bad for Susan being left there all alone. One of the comments on my blog pointed out that SHE thought about The Last Battle as the beginning of a new world, not as the end of Narnia. I thought that was a nice way of looking at it. :)

>79 leahbird: Leah, MORE NARNIA SPOILERS if Susan isn't barred from Heaven forever, she was actually saved from DEATH by being less religiously focused than the others.

Yes, I suppose she was. But I don't think that was the point. Some people die and others don't. I don't think Lewis meant to suggest that the "state of their souls" had anything to do with it. For instance, we know nothing at all about the state of Susan's parents' souls, but they died. And we know for certain that many of the people and creatures on Narnia died despite not having a healthy relationship with Aslan. For instance, the dwarves got to enter the stable, but all they saw there is a dirty old stable. They didn't see the paradise that was right before their eyes because they were blinded by their fear of gullibleness. They died even though they weren't on good terms with Aslan, the were allowed into the stable, but they refused to believe even still.

So although you might view Susan's situation as being rescued from death by her lack of faith, I don't think it's what Lewis meant.

>80 norabelle414: Nora MORE NARNIA SPOILERS The Problem of Susan isn't that she didn't go to heaven, it's that her entire family died and she was left completely alone.

Indeed, that is depressing.

>81 lunacat: lunacat MORE NARNIA SPOILERS The worst thing about the end is that Susan isn't part of it because she is described as a 'vain' girl who is only interested in herself, her looks and boys. As if that is unusual for a young lady. As if that is enough to deny a girl who was devoted and faithful and strong the chance of eternal happiness.

I think it is not the fact that she is interested in her looks and in boys that she was no longer a friend of Narnia. It was that she had stopped believing in Aslan (that was made clear in an earlier book). She could still have he chance of eternal happiness, but right now she is not ready to receive it because she doesn't believe in it. She wouldn't recognize it if it were right in front of her face. (See my answer to 79).

Also, the idea that death is the ultimate happiness, instead of trying to work with what you've got in the real world. That only the 'good' die young and others are subjected to life on Earth until they get old. Seems odd to me somehow.

I don't think Lewis was trying to say that the good die young and the others are subjected to longer lives. See my answer to 79

To veer off on a tangent slightly, I wonder how much should be considered about what the author actually meant, and how much about how the reader perceives it. After all, if a message is left ambiguous through the writing, then the author cannot (or is failing to) send a clear message, and leaves themselves open for debate and criticism over the meaning. Is it important to completely understand what the author was thinking, or are peoples reactions to it what matter?

SPOILERS

Within a tiny selection of the people who have read The Last Battle, there are different approaches to the idea of Susan vs the rest of them. Perhaps in the author's view those that had stayed faithful and not strayed were therefore saved when they died, but by making Susan the one who wasn't tested means that the message seems ambiguous. If Susan had also died and been found wanting, then the idea of faith being a salvation becomes much clearer. It also suggests that faith is a lifelong and complete commitment, with no consideration given to mistakes, deviations from that faith etc, which is something I struggle to believe. Everyone I have ever spoken to has doubted and queried at some point, and either come back or not.

Also - perhaps the point was that it didn't matter that the children had died young, because thanks to their faith they were rewarded with a glorious eternity. But there are many other ways it can be read, including that they were denied the chance to experience the fullness that life has to offer by being SO faithful that they received a shortcut towards Heaven.

It seems ironic that it is only those who clearly see the Christian message throughout and are strong enough in their own faith don't need to question the meaning of the ending. Those less or willing to take Lewis' message as clearly as that are left to work out their own meanings, based on their own beliefs and faith. I cannot personally see that Lewis was as clear as you state, because my own feelings cloud that judgement, and I see Susan's fate, and that of the others', as unnecessary and cruel to all of the, but especially to her.

Surely at the end of the day, all novels, especially those with layers, only become the story that the reader, with their own life experience tinging their thoughts, make it. Therefore the author's intended message becomes obsolete because it cannot be fully carried through to any other person.

As I said, I cannot read them any more because of my own life experience. I read them shortly after my own father had passed away (I was nine) and was unable to cope with the idea that a loving and caring mentor (Aslan) should be forced to give himself up, and therefore deny the children his love and presence. I know that the point is that he sacrificed himself so they could live and learn, but with my own life experience all I saw was devastating loss and the unfairness of life. It was too much. Therefore entirely tainted with my own feelings.

Interesting discussion! I read the Narnia books when I was a kid. For the most part the Christian message passed me by. However, I distinctly remember thinking that it was unfair and sexist that Susan got X'd out just because she liked lipstick!
I suspect that if I re-read the books now; i'd be on Pullman's side. But I do have a soft spot for The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, and I think of it whenever I see a cupboard in an old house, or a lamp-post.

"Every novel is philosophy, but when the philosophy is too obvious it spoils the novel."
Albert Camus

I was oblivious to the Christian message throughout the books until the last when I got hit in the face with it. Probably another reason I disliked it so.

ETA: Woops. This is a message in reply to 83. I haven't looked at the other cross posts above mine yet. :)

NARNIA SPOILERS

I wonder how much should be considered about what the author actually meant, and how much about how the reader perceives it. After all, if a message is left ambiguous through the writing, then the author cannot (or is failing to) send a clear message, and leaves themselves open for debate and criticism over the meaning. Is it important to completely understand what the author was thinking, or are peoples reactions to it what matter?

The problem in this case is that people who agree with the religious message tend to interpret the book one way and people who disagree with the message interpret the book the another way. Of course, there is a whole array of interpretations, but they tend to heavily lean based on the reader’s own religious feelings. This is not ambiguity so much as differences of religious belief.

Lewis’ target audience was Christian children/adults. I highly doubt that he intended on converting people to Christianity with his Narnia books (that would be impossible), but simply to reinforce Christian beliefs that were already held. Therefore, the people who tend to agree with his religious message are his target audience, and the ones who tend to disagree with the religious message aren’t his target audience.

I’m not saying that the opinions of people outside the target audience are unimportant. Quite the contrary. I find such opinions interesting. But I don’t think we can consider Lewis to have failed to send a clear message. He sent a reasonably clear message to his target audience, which is good writing IMO. I don’t consider him a poor author just because he has a narrow target audience, even though I do appreciate books that are able to gain the approval of a broader range of people.

Perhaps in the author's view those that had stayed faithful and not strayed were therefore saved when they died, but by making Susan the one who wasn't tested means that the message seems ambiguous.

Not when you consider that he also tested the dwarves. Some of the characters (dwarves) had fallen away and were tested, one of them (Susan) had fallen away and wasn’t tested. Susan’s eventual fate is left open to interpretation, certainly, but many excellent books leave such things open to interpretation. I LOVE books that are open to interpretation. For instance, Life of Pi. Ambiguous? Yes. Failed writing? No. Not IMO.

It also suggests that faith is a lifelong and complete commitment, with no consideration given to mistakes, deviations from that faith etc, which is something I struggle to believe.

It doesn’t suggest that if you consider Eustace’s character who definitely deviated at some points but who was eventually saved.

It seems ironic that it is only those who clearly see the Christian message throughout and are strong enough in their own faith don't need to question the meaning of the ending.

Not ironic. Those are his target audience. I don’t believe he was trying to convert the doubters. He was trying to reinforce a message to believers. That doesn’t mean it’s poor writing – simply a narrow target audience. There’s nothing wrong with a narrow target audience, IMO.

Therefore the author's intended message becomes obsolete because it cannot be fully carried through to any other person.

Obsolete perhaps to his non-target audience. But, again, IMO there’s nothing wrong with that. If I didn’t like the message of Christian fiction I probably wouldn’t bother reading it.

As I said, I cannot read them any more because of my own life experience. I read them shortly after my own father had passed away (I was nine) and was unable to cope with the idea that a loving and caring mentor (Aslan) should be forced to give himself up, and therefore deny the children his love and presence. I know that the point is that he sacrificed himself so they could live and learn, but with my own life experience all I saw was devastating loss and the unfairness of life. It was too much. Therefore entirely tainted with my own feelings.

That is too bad. Probably a very bad time to read such a book and I imagine I would feel the same way about it if I’d read it at that time too. Sometimes we’re not in the right mood to read a book with a certain message, but that doesn’t mean that the author failed in any way. It just means that the book is bad match for you at that time (or perhaps always).

#82 I think it is not the fact that she is interested in her looks and in boys that she was no longer a friend of Narnia. It was that she had stopped believing in Aslan

That's very much what I think as well - I've never thought that Lewis is punishing Susan for being a girl and growing up: it's because she's rejected Narnia and all it stands for. Although I don't agree with Philip Pullman on this, I have to say that I do really like his Dark Materials trilogy.

Maybe that is why I will never get it. I do believe, but in my own way, and certainly not in a prescribed fashion. I was brought up being told that churches, prayers, the Bible etc weren't an essential part of faith. What mattered was in the heart, and whatever way a person chose to express that, as long as it caused no harm to others, was fine.

Therefore I am not his target audience. And maybe that's why such books cause debate, because they were written for a very specific audience but then spread widely in popularity so that other sectors of society brought their views to them. At least that's what I think you're saying?

I think Life of Pi is somewhat different in it's ambiguity, as it sets out to be deliberately ambiguous and challenge the two different viewpoints, rather than meaning to be clear for the specific reader it was intended for, as in the Narnia books.

So many spoilers! This is a great discussion.

I always felt the underlying religious theme, but I was a Religious Studies major so I'm often hyperaware of that stuff. It never bothered me or felt overly preachy until The Last Battle. I completely see your points and I don't think you are wrong. As you said, it's mostly about whether you are the target audience and see the salvation. I never did. I just saw what felt like abrupt death.

But even my dislike of The Last Battle never changed my feelings for TLTWATW or The Magician's Nephew. I still love those.

>84 banjo123: Rhonda Yeah, I also feel that Susan's fate was unfair. But life is generally unfair. :) I have to disagree with Pullman mainly because he's so rude about the way he says things. I'm not a big fan of rudeness, and I think rudeness can ruin the best of arguments. And in Pullman's case, he allowed what I believe to be his logical mind to be blinded by his hatred of the Narnia books.

I DO agree, though, that the message in the Narnia books is a bit overdone at times. But so is the message in His Dark Materials. :p

>85 patito-de-hule: Dad Exactly. And that's a weak point in both the Narnia and the Dark Materials books. But I like Lewis better than Pullman because I agree with Lewis's point of view AND I think Pullman states his opinions too rudely. ;)

>86 Morphidae: Morphy I tend to look for "deeper meaning" so I felt that the Narnia series hammered me over the head with Message the whole way through. :) I prefer subtlety.

>88 SandDune: Rhian I don't hate His Dark Materials, but the lack of subtly was too much for me in the case of that series but not in the case of the Narnia series because I agree with Lewis' philosophy and not with Pullman's. I'm biased. :) I appreciate that His Dark Materials was a very intelligent series, and it had some very creative elements to it.

>89 lunacat: Sanddune And maybe that's why such books cause debate, because they were written for a very specific audience but then spread widely in popularity so that other sectors of society brought their views to them. At least that's what I think you're saying?

Prexactly.

I think Life of Pi is somewhat different in it's ambiguity, as it sets out to be deliberately ambiguous and challenge the two different viewpoints, rather than meaning to be clear for the specific reader it was intended for, as in the Narnia books.

That's true. I was only trying to say that ambiguity isn't necessarily failure on the author's part. :)

>90 leahbird: Leah I'm hyperaware of Messages (especially religious ones) as well. IMO, the Message in Narnia was overdone throughout, but it never really bothered me. And if you notice my review, I actually said that I didn't like the book as much as the others because it was dreary. :) Apocalypse, in my mind, is dreary...even though I understand the "spiritual need" for apocalypse. On the other hand, I still liked the book. Just not as much as the others.

Strong reading start Rachel. Was struggling to find your thread (looked under R, T and H for obvious reasons but without luck - of course it begins with a W).

Have a lovely weekend.

Hi Paul!



2013 Book 4: The Hour Between Dog and Wolf: Risk Taking, Gut Feelings, and the Biology of Boom and Bust

Written by John Coates, Narrated by Paul Michael Garcia

Reason for Reading: This book was shortlisted for the Wellcome Trust Book Prize.

Review
In this Wellcome Trust shortlisted book, Coates describes his research into the feedback loop between testosterone and success in the financial market. When a person has high levels of testosterone, they are prone to risk taking - which generally promotes the market; however, success raises their testosterone levels, which increases their risks and creates bubbles (like the dot-com bubble) which are unnatural and eventually pop. Loss of money leads to decreased testosterone levels and release of stress hormones - which, if sustained for long periods of time can lead to a depressed, risk-averse market. This is when the government should step in and perk up the market themselves. (You can probably guess Coates' politics from that statement, but the book is generally apolitical.)

I found Coates' research quite fascinating, and his writing was engaging to someone who's interested in the topic. I, unfortunately, am not generally interested in finance and so my attention wavered a bit during the finance-heavy bits. But the book was written in an approachable way such that I (who know nothing of the matter) could understand the financial/market bits and that someone who knows very little medicine could understand the science bits. In fact, it was shortlisted for the Wellcome Trust Book Prize because because it makes medicine approachable to the general population. For anyone interested in how hormones/neuroscience/psychology can affect the market, this would be an excellent book to pick up. An easy and interesting read.

Hi Rachel, wow what a discussion. I skipped some of the things as I am planning to re-read the books - or actually I may will be able to finish all of them this time.

Very interesting review on The Hour Between Dog and Wolf: Risk Taking, Gut Feelings, and the Biology of Boom and Bust, also not necessary my cup of tea :).

What else are you reading at present?

Hi Bianca!

You've just reminded me...I think you asked me about Paradise Lost, and I never answered. :) I'm still working on it, but I figured I'd just post my progress on my thread here since dad and I were the only ones participating on the Paradise Lost thread...and we can discuss it just as well on my own thread. I haven't made much progress in the last month, though, because I couldn't concentrate. I'll get back to it soon!

I'm also trying to finish up Hamlet, which I've made slightly better progress on, but haven't posted about it yet. I meant to today. But maybe tomorrow.

Other than that, I'm reading The Princess and the Goblin, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, and Midnight Riot. The last one is for my new RL bookclub with Morphy. :)

Aside from Harry Potter, I don't know any of the books. However, I will look forwards to your ongoing comments on Paradise lost and Hamlet :)
I definately will look a little bit more into Paradise Lost this year - well, that's what I finally got the Norton critical edition for.
Oryx and Crake is great, but a bit difficult at times.

Haha, and after our lovely discussion with Stephen last night I got Warm Bodies out of my TBR.

:) I'll look forward to what you have to say on Warm Bodies. I'm very curious about it. Seems like it should be a good laugh, to me.

Would you like it if I revitalized the Paradise Lost thread, or would you be just as happy reading my posts on my personal thread? I have no problem with revitalizing the other thread, of course.

*Peeks in* Are the spoilers over with now? I'll probably never read the books, but I have spoiler paranoia anyway.

They seem to be mostly over now. :)

Phew.

I should have requested Warm Bodies when I had the chance, but I don't feel like spending the gas money to go so far out of my way to visit The Big Library. I checked my local library, but unfortunately my search for Warm Bodies resulted in The Complete Guide to Joseph H. Pilates' Techniques of Physical Training and Dolphins and Other Mammals. Hmmmm, no, I don't think that is what I'm looking for...

Haha! Did we talk you into reading Warm Bodies? Does Bianca get her group read after all? ;)

Haha, no no, it's not an option since it isn't available. I'm confused why when I said "I was going to read it" on my thread everyone assumed that I didn't want to read it? I had it on my Wishlist on the library's website, I just quit using the library before I got around to it. *Shrug*

I hear it's being made into a movie though, so I'm sure I will irrationally hate it after it is released. :P

Hello, I am horribly late the the party, but wont let that stop me (*I always bring wine*)
>93 The_Hibernator: that book just sounds fascinating. I need no book bullets right now as am valiantly attempting to read off my shelves at present, but am going to have to add it my library list. So thanks. :)

While you're on the subject of Warm Bodies, I've been thinking about manufacturing a line of beauty products for zombies, and especially maternity items. So far I've been unable to find any research on zombie demographics. Any of you know of anything good?

Well, no. But I do know of a lovely book of Zombie Haiku.

A belated "Happy New Year" from me, Rachel. I am glad to see you joining us again!

Zombie haiku book?
It cannot be real haiku.
Undead doggerel!

You may be able to discover some basic info on zombie demographics here:

http://www.fvza.org/zsociology.html

Perhaps you could contact them for further information and assistance with your requirements?

I'm sure they could also help with good places to advertise your zombie range that will reach the target audience.

> 108 LOL

I've read Zombie Haiku, it's okay but Vampire Haiku is better. Unfortunately I haven't managed to get my hands on Werewolf Haiku yet.

>108 lunacat: I love it.

From the link:
"Hygiene Unlike vampires, zombies are not sophisticated enough to infiltrate crowds and public places. Thus, there is no need for them to practice personal hygiene. They will wear their clothes until they are in tatters."

Looks like I have An Uphill Climb ahead of me.

>110 Ape:
Now Vampire Haiku!
In seventeen syllables
It's bloody drivel.

Tattered clothes? Perhaps I'm a zombie and don't know it. This is very concerning.

Rachel, I loved the discussion about The Last Battle and Narnia. I had no idea when I read this series for the first time last year that the books were so deep. I plan to read them to Haley when she's older and look forward to rediscovering the magic of Lewis's imagination through her eyes while I explore again the deeper theological meaning. I definitely don't think Lewis was leaving Susan unsaved, just that she needed more spiritual renewing. It's a process we all go through imo.

"Why am I living?" and "Why am I dying?" are the same question says Adam One in The Year of the Flood.

"They shoot horses, don't they?" says Robert when asked why he killed Gloria in They Shoot Horses, Don't They?.

Two very different philosophies in two very different books!

Or are they?

Thanks Stasia!

>107 patito-de-hule: hehe

>108 lunacat: haha

>110 Ape: I read most of Zombie Haiku in a Barnes and Noble one day. Thought it was hilarious. But, then, I'm fond of zombie jokes AND humorous haiku.

>111 patito-de-hule: hoho

>112 patito-de-hule: teehee

>113 Ape: Have you been craving brains lately? You should eat some of that pea soup that I made recently.

>114 Donna828: Hi Donna! This was actually my first time reading The Last Battle so I was surprised that the message was so much stronger in that one than the others. But I have always been fond of Narnia. I guess I've known for quite a long time that it was a religious allegory...I'm not sure when I first noticed. My dad probably told me...

>115 patito-de-hule: Very esoteric. At least I understand the context. :p

If you liked Zombie Haiku you should definitely like the Vampire version. I found it a lot, ummm, cleverer...

I gave Zombie Haiku 3 stars, and Vampire Haiku 5 stars. :)

I do crave brains! Maybe not for consumption though. I also shamble, and you said yourself that I'm slow. Hmmmmm, slow-shambling tattered-clothes-wearing brain-craver. Yep, definitely a zombie. Oh dear...

It's nice to know somebody besides me craves brains. I've found out over the last couple days Rachel is squeamish about pork brains in the pea soup.

I eat pea-brain soup for breakfast.

Ah, then you would have liked my soup, Stephen. It was a little too brainy for my tastes.

The brainier the better!

Ahem, brains, brainier, soup???? pea soup, but not green peas or? *shudder* Sorry, I think I have to leave this premises.
I just got poffertjes with strawberries and cream on Diana's thread and I got very delicious buttermilk pancakes on Richard's thread - yes, that definately sounds better.

Come back later *grin*

I actually have no idea what is being discused right now. I'm just trying not to appear confused...

Actually the pea soup (yes, green peas Bianca) was rather tasty. Unfortunately, I'm a little squeamish when I cook meat, though...I've found that's common among women who do animal research for some reason. You'd think we'd be LESS squeamish...

Anyway, I found a bit of spinal cord in my soup, and I haven't been able to eat any of it since. :p Next time I won't use neck for my meat bone. :p

I don't blame you! I wouldn't be able to eat soup if I knew spinal cord had been anywhere near it. I love meat but am fussy about it - no offal or weird stuff like tongue/brain/heart etc. Of course I eat sausages and burgers and who knows what parts they have in them, but at least I don't know it.

Ground beef / sausage is luckily unidentifiable. ;)

LOL - I would have thought the same, but there it is. "spinal cord" *shudder* I feel with you, I would have felt excactly the same.

Green pea soup is a very traditional soup in Germany with sausages and meat in it and my grandmother always made me eat it, also I never really liked meat (I was a Vegan and than Vegetarian for almost two decades) and eventually developed a complete aversion against pea soup. However, I do love green peas raw or very lightly steamed :)

Well, in general I love food.

When I make stock I use a strainer bag. I just load the bag up with all the bones and bits and veggies and pop it in the water. When it's done, I just pull out the strainer bag. The stock goes in canning jars and the tender as can be bits of meat and cartilage make wonderful chicken/turkey salad or a FANTASTIC treat for the dogs and cats. For me, it's mostly a worry about those sharp little poultry bones.

You all should read The Jungle by Upton Sinclair. ;-)

Ahem, I just had a look at the link. One of the tags said "meat packing"? aside from American history and Immigrants :)

124: I'm paranoid when it comes to meat and tend to overcook the crap out of it. I shudder at advertisements for steakhouses because they always display such horrendously undercooked meat.

It's never fun to read about the food industry.

>127 drachenbraut23: It's too bad you grew an aversion to it...I love pea soup generally. :)

>128 leahbird: A strainer bag, eh? I haven't thought of that.

>129 patito-de-hule: I will someday. Was thinking of reading it next month, but I won't have time.

>130 drachenbraut23: Indeed. Meat packing. It's a classic novel about meat packing. :)

>131 Ape: I don't mind a medium steak - they're more tender and juicy that way. But I generally prefer my meat well-cooked. And I prefer to not have a lot of fat or random bits of CNS tissue. Some part of me is worried about catching mad-pig disease now. :p

Sinclair's The Jungle;
Meatpacking and immigrants?
Call it muckraking.

You could try jucifying a well-done steak with a smothering of sauce/gravy/cheese. You could also just pretend it's beef jerky. Maybe fashion a pair of boots?

Is this from the breaking news or from Oryx and Crake:

"BATON ROUGE, La. - Large groups of brawling teenagers sparked a stampede at a Louisiana mall that led police to evacuate the shopping center and shut it down early.

More than 200 teens were in the Mall of Louisiana's food court when a large fight broke out just before 6 p.m. Saturday, although it wasn't clear how many were actually fighting."

Sounds to me like the waterless flood has begun and the pleebrats are taking over.

>133 patito-de-hule: Muckracking

>134 Ape: That's ok. Medium works fine. :p

>135 patito-de-hule: Indeed? I think not.

Not from Oryx and Crake, but could be. Horrible isn't it?

2013 Book 5: Call It Courage, by Armstrong Sperry

Reason for Reading: This book won the Newbery Medal in 1941. It's been sitting on my shelf for years.

Review
Mafatu is afraid of the ocean because he almost drowned when he was a boy. But in his culture, fear is scorned and laughed at. Mafatu feels that he must redeem his good name and prove that he is not afraid anymore. He climbs in a boat and goes on a voyage, but he soon finds himself shipwrecked on an apparently-deserted island. There, he keeps himself alive by making all of his own tools, weapons, and a new canoe. He battles a tiger shark, an octopus, and a boar. He defies the cannibals when they return to their island. But will he be able to return home? This was a cute book, and I enjoyed the adventure - though it's very short and all the adventure is packed in at a very unrealistic pace. Regardless, I really enjoyed the couple of hours I spent with it. I think a young reader might find this book fun. It's appropriate for someone reading at maybe the 3rd grade level.

Good morning Rachel, that book sounds indeed like a very cute book. What age group is 3rd grade level? Did you actually ever read anything by Michael Ende? I am asking because I re-read one of my fave by him which is called The Night of Wishes in English. He is also the author of The Neverending Story and Momo.
I am still working my way through Oryx and Crake and it is just getting better and better. I also quite enjoy listening to The Knife of Never Letting Go didn't you read the trilogy last year?

BTW I wouldn't mind if you carry on with your thoughts on Paradise Lost on this thread, because I "stalk" you on a daily basis anyway, so the thread can't get lost.

Wish you a lovely day :)

It's hard to rate a book with poor pacing high, isn't it? I can usually look beyond most issues but if the pacing is bad I always have a hard time justifying any more than a 3-star rating.

Bianca: 3rd grade would be 8-9ish.

Call It Courage won the Newbery prize the year I was born, which was kind of a fast-paced adventure in itself. Oh, how excited I was for a brand new world. Third graders need a faster paced book than adults do, and I think a book for a 9-year-old should be rated from the point of view of a 9-year-old. Also one needs to consider the fast-paced adventure novellas of the time. I'm about finished with They Shoot Horses, Don't They (With a book that short, one is "almost" finished when one starts.) I'm looking forward to another short one, Through the Alimentary Canal with Gun and Camera. This is one that came out when my Dad was 14 (1930) and he spoke of it as a parody of the adventure novels for boys popular at that time.

If anyone cares, here is my review of They Shoot Horses, Don't They? . I gave it three stars.

ETA: Now I'm reading Through the Alimentary Canal with Gun and Camera

>139 drachenbraut23: Bicanca Like Stephen says, the book would be appropriate for maybe a 8-9 year old. I tried reading Neverending Story once, but I was reading a deluxe edition that had the print in red and green (depending on where the story was taking place). It made my eyes wiggle and I gave up on it. I always figured I should pick it up again with normal black print. :)

I have not read the Chaos Walking trilogy, though I own them and hope to read them soon. I'll watch to see how you rate them.

>140 Ape: Stephen Yeah, it's difficult rating such books, but lots of little kids' books are like that, as my dad says. I guess that's why I prefer YA to children's. Even so, it was cute.

>141 patito-de-hule: and 142 Dad I noticed your review differs from everyone else opinion on the subject. ;) I'm not so interested in reading They Shoot Horses, Don't They? but I'm curious about Through the Alimentary Canal with Gun and Camera. :)

Through the Canal is parody of the type of adventure novels for boys popular back then--that was back when boys read or played ball in the street instead of getting hung up on adventure video games. But I'm only on chapter 3, The Facial Plain. I expect to get into the oral cavern before I give it up tonight.

Molars to the right of them,
Grinders to the left of them,
Canines in back of them,
Volleyed and thundered!
Theirs not to question,
Theirs but to do it now!
Into the Valley of Breath
Rode the Four Hundred!

>144 patito-de-hule: I heard you needling mom about Lord Tennyson last night. :p

2013 Book 6: Hitty: Her First Hundred Years, by Rachel Field

Reason for Reading: This book won the Newbery Medal in 1930 and has been sitting on my shelf for years.

Review
While sitting idly one evening in her antique shop, Hitty, a 6-inch-long doll carved out of Mountain Ash wood, decides to write her memoirs. She begins her narration with her birth into the brave new world of 1830's Maine. Her little girl drags her on many adventures beginning first with their village and ending in a far-off land...where she finds a new owner. Follow Hitty's adventures over a hundred years as she changes hands and lands and occupations. This is an adorable little classic of historical fiction for 8-9 year-old girls. The story is sweet and generally easy to read (though some of the historical references went over my head, and the book succumbed to the racial stereotyping common for books written around the turn of the century). I'm glad I finally picked this one up.

Thanks, for the explanation of the age group.
And another cute little book :) If they have been sitting on your shelf for years, are they still books from your parents? I still own quite a lot of books which belonged to my mum and a couple of aunts when they were children.

Afternoon Bianca! I think both of these books were given to me by my aunt - she loves Newbery books and tends to fill up other people's shelves with them. :)

ETA: I'm participating in a Children's Classics challenge in the blogosphere, so that's why I've been digging out so many kids' books.

Well, I'm about a third of the way Through the Alimentary Canal with Gun and Camera. It turns out to be rather sophomoric wit very similar in style and vocabulary to the nonsense I wrote when I was in high school. I am now in the Temple of the Œsophagus listening to the plaintive strains of Cervelle's Medulla Oblongata in E Flat Major> reverberating off the Palatinate dome above me. When I was in high school, my fellow students and my younger sister loved it when I would write this kind of stuff. My teachers didn't appreciate it so much, especially the butchered Latin I would use just like this author. Ah, well!

Prope litus Gitchae Gumae
Prope aquas magni lacus...

But butchered Latin is fun.

Semper ubi sub ubi.

Always wear underwear?

unless going commando.

I ain't got time for underwear.

I thought the same until one of the farm pigs thought my yoga pants looked tasty and I ended up bare assed in the middle of a mud puddle in the middle of the barnyard... Oh the horror.

Well Leah, I would assume there were only the pigs around to notice? ;)

I resent being referred to by that derogatory term. :(

>154 leahbird: HAHA!

>155 The_Hibernator: If only. A farmhand, my poor 16 year old cousin, and a lady who boards her horse here.

I've heard a lot about Hitty. It does sound good, but too bad we can't update it!! & your Wolf book... rats... I was hoping it was really about wolves and dogs. You know me. ;)

Looks like you're spontaneous reading is rewarding you with lots of good books.

What a sight that must have been ;) I hope nothing like that happens at the place I board my horse. Of course, nothing against your fine derriere, but I'd much rather it happen to a fit young man!

Lucky, lucky farmhand.

Hamlet Act III
Act III is the pivotal act in Hamlet. The prince has been dragging his feet for months trying to force himself to avenge his father's death. At one time, he'd be certain that the ghost was truly the restless spirit of his father seeking revenge; another time he'd fret that the ghost may be a demon sent to tempt the Prince into a fatal and condemning act. In scene i, he has his famous "get thee to a nunnery" fight with Ophelia. Frustrated with his own impotence, he extends the blame of his mother's inconstancy to all women. Maddened at the thought of Ophelia's future marriage to someone else; maddened at what he sees as her certain inconstancy in the future, he demands that she commit herself to a convent. His interaction with Ophelia is observed by Polonius and Claudius, who decide that he is dangerously addled and must be sent away to England (presumably with hopes that the distraction will clear his mind).

In scene ii Hamlet makes pointed remarks during a play, hoping to draw out Claudius' guilty response. Hamlet succeeds in drawing out Claudius, who angrily retorts at the content of the play and stomps out of the room. In the immediate rush of fear at Hamlet's knowledge, Claudius suddenly feels his own guilt. He regrets killing his brother - not because it was a treacherous act in itself, but because he had been found out and might suffer consequences. He kneels down and prays that God help him; he asks forgiveness while simultaneously acknowledging that he's not really sorry that he got the Crown and the Queen, but he is very sorry that Hamlet found out about the murder. The Prince discovers Claudius praying and at first sets his mind upon killing the King here (when the royal back is turned). But then Hamlet worries: if he kills Claudius now, while praying, the King's soul will be clean and he will be dispatched to heaven. Hamlet wants Claudius to be damned, like the late King Hamlet. The prince decides to wait.

In the final scene, Hamlet is summoned to the Queen's chambers, where she tries to talk sense into him. There, Hamlet swells again into his accusatory rage at the inconstancy of women. Polonius, who has hidden himself behind the curtains upon Hamlet's entry, thinks to rescue the Queen from her raving son - but when he calls out, the infuriated prince stabs at the curtains and slays Polonius. With this act, Hamlet's path of revenge is cemented. He has killed once, he has no choice but to continue with his revenge quickly or fail entirely. Shakespeare punctuates this pivotal act with the ghost of dead King Hamlet - who only the prince can see. Prince Hamlet's shock at the escalation of events and the sudden appearance of the ghost muddles his already maddened state, and he rants wildly while the terrified Queen tries to calm him. The act ends with Hamlet lugging the body of Polonius off stage.



Act III, Scene i: The King and Polonius decide to observe Hamlet as he interacts with Ophelia. They tell Ophelia to linger where she is sure to meet Hamlet, and the two men hide. Before noticing Ophelia, Hamlet is deep in his own meditations. To be or not to be? Apparently, Hamlet is considering suicide. Does he know the King is watching? Or is his doubt genuine? There is no indication that he knows the King is near. Personally, I think Hamlet is genuinely considering suicide. He's experienced some terrible blows in the last few months - his father died unexpectedly, his mother married her brother-in-law, and Hamlet is being haunted by the ghost of his father who is making shocking demands of the Prince. Hamlet is tortured by a feeling of failure that he hasn't avenged his father, stress at the idea of killing the King, and doubt about the nature and intentions of the ghost. That's enough to make any sane person consider suicide. The sudden appearance of Ophelia reminds him of yet another failure in his life.

Like Claudius and Polonius, I observed Hamlet very closely in this scene because I wanted to consider the age-old question: is Hamlet mad or is he faking it? I saw no signs of actual insanity, despite Hamlet's nonsensical word-play and his irrational anger at Ophelia. He seemed genuinely enraged at Ophelia's perceived inconstancy, and he blamed her for future inconstancies which she had not yet committed; but sane lovers can also be irrational in this way.

Another question I pondered during this scene was whether Hamlet meant to imply that Ophelia wasn't a virgin (since Harold Jenkins, the editor of my edition, claims that there is no evidence that Ophelia and Hamlet had any pre-action action). And, frankly, I have to agree with Jenkins. There is a lot of double-meaning innuendo during this scene (and the next), but that doesn't prove that they'd been together. Men are quite capable of innuendo in the company of maidens. That proves nothing in itself. So I leave that one open to interpretation.



Act III, Scene ii: In this scene, the troupe of traveling actors put on a play which closely resembles the murder of King Hamlet. The Prince makes continual jibes and probes at the King until Claudius angrily announces that he's had enough and stomps out of the room - which is exactly the guilty reaction that Hamlet was hoping for. Now Hamlet can avenge his father's death with confidence that Claudius is guilty.

This scene is apparently scrutinized closely by critics. The play began with a dumbshow which silently portrayed the murder - but Claudius apparently didn't respond to this dumbshow. The King only responded upon seeing the murder in the spoken play. Critics ask the question: did the King see the dumbshow? Why wasn't he offended by it? Why did he wait until the second enactment of murder before retorting? Some directors believe that Claudius didn't see the dumbshow. They have him turned away from it, chatting with a neighbor. Others believe that Claudius saw the dumbshow, and silently blanched, but wasn't truly provoked until Hamlet's comments during the second enactment. Harold Jenkins (forever the literalist) believes that neither of these two things happened, because otherwise it would have been mentioned in the stage directions. A sophisticated connoisseur of Hamlet apparently watches Claudius during this scene in hopes of determining which interpretation the director has chosen.



Act III, Scene iii: Shocked by the realization that Hamlet knows Claudius' guilt, the King prays for help from God. Hamlet discovers Claudius praying, and almost kills him there...but then decides that if he kills Claudius when his soul is cleansed by prayer, Claudius will achieve salvation. Hamlet wants Claudius to be damned, so he waits a better opportunity for revenge.

The question I asked while reading this scene: Was Hamlet just procrastinating, or did he really not kill Claudius in prayer because he wanted to damn Claudius' soul? Personally, I think he was procrastinating. He had resolved that he must kill Claudius, but he didn't have the nerve to do it in cold blood.



Act III, Scene iv: Hamlet rants at the Queen in her chambers. Polonius, hidden behind the curtains, moves to assist the Queen, and Hamlet stabs him. Hamlet seemed rather surprised to discover that he'd killed Polonius. What did he expect? That the King was hidden behind the curtains? Personally, I think he wasn't thinking. He had worked himself up into a frenzy talking to the guilty Queen, and was surprised by Polonius' sudden call. He stabbed the curtain, not knowing what lay behind it, and only afterwards asked "Is it the King?" His confusion at finally having spilled blood - though the wrong person's blood - is compounded by the sudden appearance of the ghost. This is the first scene where Hamlet truly appears, to me, to have lost his wits. He is acting violently without thought of consequence or purpose. His speech is confused. He is utterly out of his depth.

This is continued from my thread last year. If you're interested in reading the rest of my posts about Hamlet, you can find them on my blog. http://rachelreadingnthinking.blogspot.com/2012/11/shakespeares-hamlet-master-po...

>156 Ape: Stephen Sorry. Do you prefer swine?

>158 leahbird: Leah hahahaha

>159 cammykitty: Katie Yeah, my aunt has been trying to get me to read Hitty for years. She's tried to give me at least 5 copies of it over the decades.

>160 lunacat: Lunacat Agreed!

Hi Rachel, checking in as I continue to struggle up stream against the ever flowing tide of threads and posts. Love the Calvin and Hobbs! What a perfect way to start off your amazing review of Hamlet!

#146: I hate to say how many years ago it was that I first read Hitty. It seems like a hundred!

Well, I got my Atlantic and Harper's in the mail, but I'm back to Through the Alimentary Canal with Gun and Camera. I'm just barely over half way through now. It's an exciting trip; I'm in the Intra-Costal Provinces now after a brief side trip to Epidermis to peer through the portholes there. I've met the famous engineers Systole and Diastole and am about to embark on the Aorta rapids of the Red River.

Is that a kidney or an RBC?

It's a one-man submarine, and a booger to control in the Aortic stream.

>165 alcottacre:,166,167 LOL

Ha, I was wondering when you are going to share some more thoughts on Hamlet with us :) Very interesting indeed.

Men are quite capable of innuendo in the company of maidens. That proves nothing in itself. So I leave that one open to interpretation. LOL
Following your comments, I wonder if I should give it a try myself. I have always shyed away from proper Shakespeare, because of the language used, also I have read most of the stories as simplified versions for teens :) *blush*.

Hi patito, finished Oryx and Crake last night and just loved it. I will start the other book tomorrow or the day after. This may sound funny, but when I was reading the book, most of the time I had the impression it was written by a man :). I think it's just the voice and the language Atwood used.

I've added Hitty to my TBR list. It won't be hard to get my hands on a copy since my library has it. Thanks for the heads-up on the racial stereotyping. It does tend to mar my complete enjoyment of books written in that era.

Hi Rachel, just stopping by to wish you a lovely remaining Sunday!

Saw this and thought you would like that :)

>171 drachenbraut23:: that might just be the cutest thing I've ever seen!

She should have 'packaged' her cats like that when she moved! Then she could have dumped them in the trunk.

:P

>169 drachenbraut23: Bianca Have you tried No Fear Shakespeare? I haven't personally, but I've heard they're very useful. They have odd pages in the original Shakespeare and even pages in modern English, I think.

>170 cbl_tn: Hi Carrie I hope you enjoy it! It certainly wasn't ill-natured stereotyping, and there were only a couple of chapters of it, but it was enough to make me shake my head and inwardly groan. I'm sure that stuff we write will sound just as bad to people 100 years from now.

>171 drachenbraut23: Thanks Bianca! That's adorable! :) It reminds me of when I rescued Othello from the sewer at 4-weeks-old. Based on her yowls, she was desperate to be rescued by her mummy, but not by me! She started hissing and swatting, and I couldn't reach down into the sewer without risk of incurring an open wound in a very dirty place. So I dangled my gym shirt down and she grabbed it with her claws, I pulled her up and swaddled her in the shirt. I thought she'd really put up a fight once I'd gotten her trapped, but instead she fell right to sleep (though she was still shaking violently). Makes me wonder if kittens actually enjoy being swaddled. It looks pretty darned cute, doesn't it?

>172 lauralkeet: Agreed Laura!

>173 Ape: Stephen Even if kittens enjoy being swaddled, I don't think adult cats do. They would have put up quite a fuss. :p

That's okay, they would have been in the trunk. You wouldn't have noticed, I'm sure

Good luck trying to get my cats swaddled like that!!

The vets won't deal with one of ours without gauntlets now. He puts them on as we walk into the room with her in the carrier. I don't blame him, she drew a LOT of blood!

Your story of rescuing Othello is almost identical to how Ollie came into my life! Except there wasn't a sewer. Someone had dumped his whole litter out at my cousins house and they were living amongst some holly bushes. It took me 1.5 hours to finally get hands on him. When I lunged for him, I thought I was getting scruff of the neck but I actually got scruff of the back and he flipped around and latched onto my hand with everything he had. He was eating me alive until I threw a towel over him and then he went all calm and cuddly. I ended up needing a tetanus short and my hand was in pieces for a while, but he spent that night with half his body shoved under my head. He was 4 weeks old and he had a stomach full of hard shelled beetles (which he hilariously threw up on my brother). This picture was 2 days after I rescued him (that's my little cousin holding him).

So terrible what people will do to animals.

Our youngest cat Tashi was dumped in a plastic bag from a car - I was driving behind and he fell out of the bag as it landed, and ended up under my car. I was convinced I'd run him over :(

When we took him to the vets that night for flea treatment and a checkup they said he was less than six weeks old but miraculously hadn't been injured. He's been a great addition to our family though.

Wow Leah! You're persistent if you were at it for 1.5 hours. I wasn't going to risk getting my hand attacked once I realized how terrified she was. I ALMOST left her there to go back to my apartment and get some gloves, but that would have taken a half hour and I was concerned that if I left she'd be eaten by the time I got back. (There was a small carnivorous-looking creature peering at us from a bush - I think it was a muskrat. I wasn't sure it could take a kitten down, but I didn't want to take chances). It took me about 10 minutes to figure out the shirt thing. :)

Perhaps that day I exchanged the muskrat's life for Othello's life. Is that a fair trade? ;) Oh well, I assume he found dinner elsewhere.

lunacat I agree! Why are people so cruel to animals? People will BUY kittens, why throw them out of a moving vehicle?

Oh mei, I am not going to chime into this discussion now. It always makes me absolutely furious when people treat animals like rubbish. As you know already our dog was a rescue dog as well and everytime I look at him now, I am so glad that he found a good home with us. Seeing him now huge, healthy, funny, cuddly, well just our big baby, I can't believe that someone used to beat him up and starve him :(

It is terrible, and I should probably state that I was JOKING about the cats-in-the-trunk bit. I once rescued a butterfly from a spider web. I know, I'm pathetic. :P

> 181 - *sigh* you have proven it yet again Stephen - "adorable" is the word for that :)

> 181-2--I agree totally. Stephen, you are so sweet.

Going back to lurking,

Karen O.

Bah! I object! Once I saw an spider web that was empty for an extended period of time, so I caught small insects and dumped them into the web. Pure maliciousness, for sure!

Awwww, Stephen's soooo sweet. To perk the conversation up a bit:

184> Once I saw an spider web that was empty for an extended period of time, so I caught small insects and dumped them into the web.

I used to do that when I was a kid. I remember especially the day I discovered the best way to catch a funnelweb spider. If you drop a bug in the web, they grab it so quick and run back to their funnel that it's near impossible to grab them. But by dropping a large beetle or a small frog in the web, I could slow them down enough to grab them when they came out. Even so, it's amazing how fast they can get a frog, which is highly susceptible to their venom.

185> Somehow H. slackass-erectus doesn't fit my image of Stephen.

>186 patito-de-hule: I'm afraid to ask why you wanted to catch a funnwelweb spider. The very thought gives me the heebie-jeebies!

187> In Through the Alimentary Canal with Gun and Camera there's a whole chapter (Ch. XIII) about catching Heebie-Geebies.

You know, that's just how I had them pictured!

You still haven't said why you wanted to catch a funnelweb spider, though. :-)

>189 rosalita:
Because they were there and a challenge to catch alive and because I was a little boy.

With my first one I kept it in a box and fed it for a few months until I got bored.

>190 patito-de-hule: Sheesh, boys. *shaking my head*

Seriously, though, it sounds like you were a budding scientist. I can objectively see how it would be fascinating to observe them in captivity. I think spiders are interesting in the abstract; it's the individual encounters that make me squeamish.

Here's a "spider that gives me the heeby-geebies", the so-called "banana spider" or Nephila clavipes. A similar variety of silk spider (N. sp?) is common in Ethiopia. I ran into one (literally) while thrashing my way down the Blue Nile a little south of Lake Tana. Their webs are unusually strong, and it almost swept me off my feet when I hit it unexpectedly. There was a huge silk spider on my face, and when I brushed it off I dropped my glasses in the river. I fished them out, but got a case of schistosomiasis in the process.

186: I've done the same thing with luring funnel spiders out with (usually dead) bait, but I have JUST enough spider-apprehension not to go grabbing at them. I don't have full-blown spider phobia, but I prefer not to handle them with my hands.

Last year I did freak out at the sight of a spider, though. It was the year of the Super Spider, and I dropped a dead hornet on a small funnel web to see if the spider would come out. Let's just say I did NOT expect such an enormous spider to come scrambling out, especially with my face a few inches from the hole. *Shudder*

Somehow H. slackass-erectus doesn't fit my image of Stephen

Yeah, I'm pretty certain I'm not the same species. Then again, I figure the brain function probably isn't far off, and I do prefer my pants to be too big rather than too small, because I seem to lack the ability to walk without being able to put my hands in my pockets. Hmmmm, I think the physiology is a little bit off though.

>193 Ape: I don't have full-blown spider phobia, but I prefer not to handle them with my hands.
I believe that's called "common sense".

#194 by @norabelle414> Seconded.

>192 patito-de-hule: I brushed it off I dropped my glasses in the river. I fished them out, but got a case of schistosomiasis in the process.

May it have been wiser to leave the glasses in the river, O Father? Never know what you might catch from a river in Africa.

>193 Ape: Yeah, I'm pretty certain I'm not the same species. Then again, I figure the brain function probably isn't far off, and I do prefer my pants to be too big rather than too small, because I seem to lack the ability to walk without being able to put my hands in my pockets. Hmmmm, I think the physiology is a little bit off though

You didn't appear to be of H. slack-ass erectus when we met. But you DID avoid eye contact and verbal communication. :p

>194 norabelle414: I believe that's called "common sense".

I think most spiders in the US won't really hurt you. But, of course, there are those that will.

I'd have an easier time holding a spider in my hand than looking a person in the eye while talking to them. *Shudders*

I used to have a lot of difficulty looking people in the eye. I still do in some situations with some people. (Generally with women - not all of them, of course.)

I practiced looking people in the eye when talking to them. It's something you can teach yourself to do. :)

Nope, I'd still rather hold a spider. At least I know it won't hurt as bad when it finally decides to bite me...

2013 Book 7: Sense and Sensibility, by Jane Austen

Reason for Reading: Well, actually, it was an accident. I watched the BBC movie with my mom and she asked me how similar it was to the book. I said that it was very close to the book, but that there were a few things in the movie that I didn't really believe happened that way in the book. So I picked up the book and started reading. Got sucked in. :) I was wrong, though, all three incidents happened in the book.

Review
This is the story of two very different sisters: Elinor is a sensible (yet secretly passionate) young woman who must continuously reign in the wild passions of her mother and sisters - especially Marianne whose head is filled with romantic notions of one-true-love and tragedy. When their father suddenly dies with their newly-acquired estate entailed away to their half-brother John, the sisters are left destitute. John and his wife Fanny descend upon the mourning family within a fortnight and make the sisters and mother feel like unwelcome guests in their beloved home. Elinor soon forms an attachment with Fanny's brother Edward, but Fanny doesn't approve of Elinor's lack-of-fortune-or-name. So the family moves away to a cottage, leaving Edward behind. Poor Elinor must struggle with her own worries about Edward while at the same time monitoring the expensive of the house and trying to reign in the wild, all-consuming attachment of Marianne to the dashing young Willoughby. The romantic hopes of both girls spiral downwards as more and more obstacles appear.

I love this story because I've always admired Elinor for both her passion and her ability to handle all problems that come her way. I also admire Colonel Brandon for his devotion to Marianne despite her ecstatic preference for the younger, handsomer, and less reserved Willoughby. This time around, I also really appreciated Marianne's character. Her youthful ideas about love were cute - and realistic for many girls of 16. :) Her development throughout the story was extraordinary. I loved the way she slowly, cluelessly, began to understand the world around her. I don't admire her, but I think she's cute and very funny. And, frankly, a more interesting character than Elinor (due to her development-of-character).

To be honest, this book is just as much a favorite as Pride and Prejudice. Yes. That is right. I ADMIT that I like this book just as much (possibly a little more) than the beloved P&P.

>199 Ape: But being able to interact with society is much more useful than the ability to hold a spider.

Didn't you people know eye contact is the second deadliest weapon in the world?!? What do they teach kids these days? So under educated

>202 lunacat: haha! Well, it is in a way. Aggressive eye contact can mean three things: 1) Dominance display - possible violence pending; 2) Courting Ritual - possible broken heart pending; 3) Underdeveloped social abilities - not really much of a weapon, I suppose.

I don't know, as rampant as arachnophobia is I'm pretty sure I could be a pretty powerful person by running around brandishing a spider. ;)

Interacting with society is way overrated.

No. Spiders. Ever. I like writing spiders so long as they stay in their giant, easily seen and not stumbled into webs. Other than that, all bets are off.

>194 norabelle414: I believe that's called "common sense".
True. Phobias are not rational, nor are they common sense. They are irrational morbid fears. "Common sense" is also not necessarily rational. They are just what "everyone knows" intuitively, true or not. "Common sense" is cultural knowledge. (I love to read about other cultures. Has anyone read There was a Country?) What makes a little sense is to avoid spiders with generic names that begin with the letter L, like Loxosceles or Latrodectus. But then a more rational approach would be to avoid spiders with three pairs of eyes (Loxosceles) or shiny black spiders with red or white markings (Latrodectus) or any thing big enough to catch and eat a bird.

#206 by @patito-de-hule> or any thing big enough to catch and eat a bird.

I'm just going to go die now.

>202 lunacat: Yes, I vaguely remember something about the dangers and advantages of making direct eye contact in Elijah Anderson's Code of the Street. It's been a while, however, and maybe I'm remembering something that really wasn't there.

>205 leahbird: "Writing Spiders" do make interesting webs. Orb webs with extra zigzags in them. Argiopes and Nephilids like the common garden argiope and the silk spiders (including the "banana spider" I linked to the picture of.

>200 The_Hibernator:: ooh, S&S! A couple of years ago I started re-reading one Austen each year and that's the one I plan to read this year and I should get to it in February. Love it!

Regardless of whether spiders are poisonous or dangerous, it is still better to not pick them up.

Better for the spider, anyway.

My husband's family calls farts "barking spiders."

Don't mind me...

>204 Ape: Stephen Powerfully creepy, but you wouldn't get far in life that way

>205 leahbird: Leah A farmer that hates spiders?

>206 patito-de-hule: Dad Since I only know of two spiders in the US that are actually dangerous, that sounds good to me.

>207 leahbird: Leah It really depends on what sized bird

>208 patito-de-hule: Dad Charlotte was a wonderful spider, I have fond memories of her. First chapter book I ever read.

>209 lauralkeet: Laura Great! I'll watch for your updated thoughts in February. :)

>210 norabelle414: Nora I suppose. I've never really thought about it.

>211 patito-de-hule: Dad Well, that's true.

>212 Morphidae: Morphy There's a weeping spider in The Last Unicorn.

I will too get far in life this way, you take that back. Say I will be incredibly successful with my spider strategy, say it right this instant!

I have a picture of myself as a 4-year-old holding a tarantula. It's very cute. I couldn't find it to scan it in, though. It must be in my mother's album.

2013 Book 8: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

Written by J. K. Rowling, Narrated by Jim Dale

Reason for Reading: I've been going through the Harry Potter books by audio now. This is my first time reading straight through the entire series, and by "straight" I mean I finish one every one or two months.

Review (WARNING: Contains unavoidable spoilers from earlier novels!!!)
Voldemort has recently returned, and Harry Potter has spent the entire summer listening to the muggle news for some sign of terror. But it turns out that most people don't believe Harry and Dumbledore that Voldemort has risen, and Voldemort is using that ignorance to his advantage. Furthermore, the Ministry of Magic has decided that Dumbledore isn't stable, and they're interfering at Hogwarts with the addition of a new teacher - the throttle-worthy Dolores Umbridge. *Yes. I wanted to throttle her EVERY time she entered the narrative. That shows excellent caricaturization by Rowling.* This year, Harry must battle the disciplinary hand of the Ministry and skepticism from his fellow students, without losing focus on his upcoming OWL exams. Will he pass Potions?!

This is one of the more complex books in the series (which wins it bonus points with me), but it is also the angstiest book. Harry spends the entire book angry at his friends, angry at Dumbledore, angry at the Ministry, angry at Umbridge, and just plain pissed off in general. His confusion is compounded by his interest in Cho, who is still mourning the death of her dead boyfriend Cedric. Overall, it's a good book because it advances the story and develops character, but I got a bit tired of angsty Harry. This is my least favorite (though still highly enjoyable) of the Harry Potter books.

I felt the same way when I read Order of the Phoenix, it was just too angsty for me, but I guess it is fitting of his age in the novel.

I'm saddened my spider strategy doesn't work on you. I guess I'll take it to Leah's thread...

Stephen, if you bring that thing over to my thread I may have to kill you. I just about threw up looking at it here.

Order of the Phoenix was one of my least favorite too, for the exact same reason. It's too bad though because, other than angry Harry, I think it was a very good book.

Hmmmmm, okay, maybe this spider strategy isn't as effective as I thought...

215>


Edited to add size attribues

>218 leahbird: Leah Yeah, it WAS a very good book. But, well, the ANGST!

>220 patito-de-hule: Awwww. I was so cute! Whatever happened to me?

OK, I'm checking out. Those two huge spider pictures are seriously disturbing! See you on your next, hopefully spider-free thread!

Nice review of 'Order of the Phoenix', though! I totally agree on the angst.

Ha! That is either incredibly creepy or incredibly adorable...I'm a little torn.

Creepy... my vote is creepy!

Ditto on your feeling of Umbridge.... I also listen to the Potter books and EVERY time Dale starts with her I get angry... Brilliantly written AND acted / read IMHO to create that type of a reaction to a fictional character!

>174 The_Hibernator: Rachel, thank you very much for the suggestion - they are actually from Sparknotes and got really good reviews. Ordered already a copy to check them out.

Luv, love your discussion spiders. They are the only one's of the creepy crawlies I actually like. :) YES; you are absolutely adorable on the photo with the spider :). Seriously cute, you like a really cheeky girl *grin*

And here two very cute spiders for you :)





Aren't they adorable?

>222 rosalita: Ha! I guess I'll have to make a new one soon. I'll wait until the spider frenzy ends. :)

>223 Ape: Adorable

>224 TinaV95: Agreed! (About Umbridge, not about creepy)

>225 drachenbraut23: Awww, look at those big eyes! So Adorable.

I love those jumping spiders, but when I was a boy I found them very hard to catch and hold on to without hurting them. :(

Does hurning stand for squashing? If so, that's sad :(

I was so cute! Whatever happened to me?

Lot's of very good things, I would say! :)

(Life strategy #2: Overzealous charm.)

That is a lovely shirt you are wearing, Bob!

Lovely shirt? *scratch head, put my glasses on and have a closer look*

He, you were not that huge patito?

229> Shirt? That's genuine manmade leather. He who was wearing it was Rachel's foster brother, Bryan. Actually, he was terrified of the spider, but didn't want to miss out on the action when I started taking the picture. That's probably the closest he ever got to it.

230> No, I certainly was not that big. I was born at four pounds (less than 2 kilos), and was still 4' 11" (149 cm) at age 13. I guess that's the way it goes with us preemies. (Well, I'm not really a preemie anymore.)

Than you must have been very cute - as you know my fondness for preemies - No, and you aren't a preemie anymore.

BTW: I finished Oryx and Crake and started The Year of the Flood now. Atwood is such a brilliant writer and I immensly enjoyed the story. Some of the parts which made me absolutely crack up was when they watched this internet side with the assisted suicide and the part with the ChickyNoobs. I loved her descriptions of all the different spliced animals and the idea behind it and what actually didn't work out.

Chicky-Nobbies. Yum.
Pigoons. Yuck.

I meant the spider was creepy!!! You are adorable! However, the tarantula is so creepy that I didn't really focus on the people in the picture!! :)

AAAh, so it was ment to mean hurting, well but squashing fitted quite well. *grin*

You know I googled hurning and couldn't find it, so there was always the possibillity ..........
he don't forget that English is not my first language :)

Hm, oh, no, I meant the shirt you are wearing NOW, Bob. You are wearing a shirt, right? And Bianca, I must say your eyes are simply lovely. Rachel, have I mentioned lately that you look great in your glasses, and I think your sister has great taste in televisions.

Is this more effective than the spider method?

please. stop. the. spider. madness. Thank you very much. Just going to go hurl somewhere spider-free.

215: Would you do that now?
223: either incredibly creepy or incredibly adorable...I'm a little torn.
Me too.
225: Aren't they adorable?
226: Awww, look at those big eyes!
I agree. The eyes.

Just dropping by to check out the spider pictures.

Hitty is actually a book I read at the appropriate age--which was a lot earlier than when Stasia did.

In book 3 of Piers Anthony's Xanth series, the protagonist is shrunk down into a tapestry, and a jumping spider becomes his guide and best friend--one of my favorites of the series, actually.

>227 patito-de-hule: Dad I love those jumping spiders

I've always loved them too. But I've never tried to catch one. I just like to watch them jump around. They're also rather cute as far as spiders go.

>228 drachenbraut23: Bianca Way to catch him on a typo...at least, I think that's what happened there....

>229 Ape: Stephen Lot's of very good things, I would say!

Awww. Isn't he sweet? :) At the very least I'm more mature than I was at that age.

>230 drachenbraut23: Bianca haha

>231 patito-de-hule: Dad Wow. I didn't know that. 4 pounds! I knew Anne was a preemie, but I didn't know you were. I recall something about grandpa bragging to all his friends that grandma had their first baby 8 months after the wedding? Or did I make that up?

>232 drachenbraut23: Bianca I read your interesting review of Oryx and Crake over on your thread. :)

>233 patito-de-hule: Dad Hungh?

>234 TinaV95: Tina the tarantula is so creepy that I didn't really focus on the people in the picture

I think this is being discussed on Darryl's thread...something about when a man looks at a picture of a lady "he does not see things like clothes or jewelry"

Is that the same phenomenon?

>235 drachenbraut23: Bianca You know I googled hurning and couldn't find it

Way to be on top of dad's typo there! ;)

>236 Ape: Stephen You are wearing a shirt, right?

Yes he is. He's also wearing his sunglasses at night.

So he can, so he can...

>237 leahbird: Leah Try Nora's thread. It's filled with half-naked Canadians.

>238 qebo: Katherine Would you do that now?

Probably. I don't have any problem with spiders. But we don't find them wandering around in Minnesota that often...to cold. :)

>239 ronincats: Roni You know, I've never read the Xanth series. I really ought to some day.

>240 The_Hibernator: Wow. I didn't know that. 4 pounds! I knew Anne was a preemie, but I didn't know you were.

I didn't know it either until several years later when I read it on my hospital birth certificate. Even then I didn't know what it meant. What I wondered was why I was put in an incubator--that was the thing my grandpa hatched his chicks in.

What I wondered was why I was put in an incubator--that was the thing my grandpa hatched his chicks in.

I've used incubators to grow bacteria in?

I am definitely going to ignore your thread until the spider pictures have finished!

Spoiler Alert!
Peter Parker dies in Spider-Man #700

Charles Perrault's epic poem The Mother Goosead has a memorable passage about arachnophobia:

Little Miss Muffet
Sat on a tuffet
Eating her crud away;
Along came a spider
And sat down beside her
And frightened Miss Muffet away.

But for sheer poetic beauty about a bug, none can beat Robert Burns To a Louse

"O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion!
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
And ev'n devotion"

Now that is literature.

At the very least I'm more mature than I was at that age.

Really? I've tried really hard not to mature one bit. I might be more responsible occasionally, more respectful, more considerate, and more intelligent...but what fun is life if you can't set off fire crackers under your sister's chair when she's sitting out in the yard? :D

New SPIDER-FREE Thread!

http://www.librarything.com/topic/148493

Does the new thread include pictures of dust bunnies?

Seriously, though, I'm now on the fifth day of that migraine headache. I'm really not doing any reading and not making much sense, so I think I'll just bow out until it's completely finished. If the migraine doesn't do me in, those narcotics are going to. :)

G'night.

Migraines, like all other things on earth, have an end. Take some of that vicodin. Just don't operate any heavy machinery for 24 hours. ;)

That quack gave me more than the Vicodin. Whatever it is, it's a bitter gall.

Here's another arachnid: a house mite from a dust bunny:

Hi patito - sorry to hear that the "My grain" is still bothering you. I hope you will feel better in a few days. Out of curiosity, does the Vicodin actually work on your migraine? I suffer migraine myself a few times a year and it definately doesn't work for me.
When you feel better, I would love to hear your thoughts on Oryx and Crake *grin* and by that time I am probably finished with The Year of the Flood. You were right when you said the second book is even better than the first one :)

I had to go for milk a little while ago, and I was feeling a little better, so I went. While in the store looking at all that food, I suddenly realized it wasn't making me nauseous any more. In fact, I was downright hungry. So I changed into my normal glasses (instead of very dark sun glasses) and bought a pizza. The doctor had told me that if it wasn't gone by Friday, check back in for a CAT scan. Well, here it is Thursday afternoon and it's gone.

Vicodin--I'm not sure. It relieved my arthritis and headache pretty well, but after the first dose I only took half what I was told because I thought it was the Vicodin that upset my stomach. The doctor also did a blood test for temporal arteritis, but I haven't heard the results yet. I had my first migraine last month--it was an ophthalmic migraine that had some beautiful colors to it and lasted 40 hours and clicked off as suddenly as it came on. I drew a picture of my hallucination somewhere. It looked like a lavender rose croissant, which is funny because the doctor's name was Dr. Croissant. He didn't call it a croissant; he called it a scotoma. Anyway, with two migraines in a month and never having had one before at age 72, the doctor is still thinking of sending me for a CAT scan if I have another.

Oryx and Crake--My mind has been so jumbled up the last few days that at the moment I barely remember the book right now. That's why all the nonsensical posts of late. As I remember, I didn't write a review because there were already so many great reviews that I didn't have anything to add. I gave it 4 stars (subtracting one because there was so much coarse language), but I loved the book. I commented occasionally in your thread and Rachel's about remarks that tickled me from it.

After my head has cleared a little more, I'll try to sit down and write a proper review of both books. I also want to finish Through the Alimentary Canal with Gun and Camera. It is rather banal, but there's some nostalgia in it for me because my dad handed it to me in a used book store when I was about 13. I thought it was hilarious then.

This thread needn't die. It seems like a good place now to raise questions about Ophidiophobia and Arachnophobia in literature.

Of course, the best known passage of ophidiophobia is in the Pentateuch, in Genesis 3:15

And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

The passage explicitly recognizes a hatred of serpents by mankind (specifically women) in that culture. Milton, in Paradise Lost must echo the sentiment in Book I, lines 34-36

Th' infernal Serpent; he it was, whose guile
Stird up with Envy and Revenge, deceiv'd
The Mother of Mankind

But he goes further in the incestuous scene before the pearly gates in Book II beginning with line 650:

The one seem'd Woman to the waste, and fair,
But ended foul in many a scaly fould
Voluminous and vast, a Serpent arm'd
With mortal sting:

That reference needs a lengthy post. And of course Edmund Spenser's Faerie Queene 1.1.14 (which may be where Milton actually got some of his imagery:

Halfe like a serpent horribly displaide,
But th'other halfe did a woman's shape retaine

And this is only the most obvious use in Christian literature. I'll let someone else jump on the feminist angle. Suffice it to say that the portrayal is that evil is the fault of women and snakes; that sin is personified as half woman and half snake. And I have not even touched on Eastern literature yet.

Now if you will forgive me for raising a sensitive issue, one of the old stereotypes of Blacks is that they are decidedly ophidophobic. One personal story I remember is that of asking my dad why there were no lawns in the Black sections of Los Angeles. This was about 1950-51. My dad said to me that Blacks were afraid of snakes and that they beat down the lawns because snakes lived in the grass. (I'm sure now that he was joking, but I thought he was serious at the time.) But I was to note later on how common that stereotype was in literature. The other stereotype that I'm interested in is that whites, women especially, were arachnophobic. That image was used in the Harry Potter books, especially in The Chamber of Secrets with Ron and with Aragog. Not that the basilisk didn't use ophidiophobic images, but Ron's arachnophobia was throughout the series. J. K. Rowling must have had a bit of feminist understanding, at least. Hermione was not arachnophobic.

Spiders are often the source of terror in Nicholas Edwards Arachnophobia made into a horror flick. That lends itself to some discussion too. While I'm not familiar offhand with earlier literature using that image, I am certain it exists.

Comments?

ETA: I should not miss the Walpurgis Night scene in Goethe's Faust scene XXI lines 3894-97.

And every root like a snake,
Over sand and rock all bent,
Stretches with a strange intent,
To scare us, of us prisoners make:

Here the snake is not Mephistopheles or sin, as such. But it's scary imagery. Look at all the s's in that passage. Anyone want to tell me what the German sounds like? (Not that I understand German, unfortunately.)

Don't forget Shelob from Lord of the Rings. So few female characters in those books, and one of them has to be an evil, man-eating spider???

Snakes are awesome, spiders are less scary than women.

> You seriously think so? Look at that

Ugh! That's quite the spider Bianca!

Nora, I think spiders in classical literature tend to be female, don't they? Even Charlotte was female. ;) But Aragog (from Harry Potter) was male!

He Rachel, don't you recognise the pic :). That's from the book you gave your dad for christmas. I downloaded a copy with project Gutenberg (not to read it) so that I could have a closer look at all the beautiful illustrations. *grin*

:) I knew it was a Dore picture, but I didn't know if it was Paradise Lost or Inferno.

The Dore pictures are absolutely fab, don't you agree. I also have been looking at his illustrations for Poe's The Raven, absolutely stunning.

>252 patito-de-hule: patito I know you say, you can't read German - but here it is the German translation :)

And every root like a snake,
Over sand and rock all bent,
Stretches with a strange intent,
To scare us, of us prisoners make:

Und die Wurzeln, wie die Schlangen,
Winden sich aus Fels und Sande;
Strecken wunderliche Bande,
uns zu strecken, uns zu fangen,

My dad said to me that Blacks were afraid of snakes and that they beat down the lawns because snakes lived in the grass. (I'm sure now that he was joking, but I thought he was serious at the time.) But I was to note later on how common that stereotype was in literature. any idea why that is? Couldn't it just be that it is a "taught" behaviour, because they have soo many venomous snakes in Africa? Or are you trying to look at it from a different angle in regards to this serpent cults which, I think, originated in Africa?

The other stereotype that I'm interested in is that whites, women especially, were arachnophobic. IMO that must be related to the Old Testament and the way women were pressed into this evil/serpent image which usually covers spiders as well. Again, I am of the opinion that this kind of anxiety especially in regards to snakes is taught behaviour and has very much to do with our society.
We still have got people in our modern society who treat women very much in accordance to the Old Testament. I remember when I was pregnant with Alex - I had to see the Gyny quite regular, because of a congenital spinal problem - I saw a gyny registrar who was supposed to discuss the delivery options and especially pain management with me - Well when the talk came to pain management he quoted " To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth, In pain you will abring forth children; " Well, aside from being completely speechless for a couple of minutes, I just got up, left the room, made a complaint and refused to be looked after this doctor. Unless, you are looking into different reasons for this kind of stereotyping.

The English does sound a little better to me, but the alliteration (the hissing) is similar. I think the English translation seems to be a pretty good one.

Regarding the idea of Blacks being afraid of snakes more than whites, I was always skeptical, but I was too young to be really skeptical of my dad's pronouncements. Yes, in Africa people do seem to be afraid of snakes, but once I roused a cobra, and I can understand why people are scared of them. In Nigeria, however, I noted that some tribes would eat a viper but not a colubrid. A man of another tribe then surprised me by saying his tribe was just the other way around. However, I only heard that from a couple of individuals and just took their word for it FWIW.

I do believe that the Bible had a great deal to do with the view of women in Western culture. And it has to do with Middle Eastern culture prior to the Bible. Bear in mind that the Assyrian creation myth has a great deal of parallel to the Hebrew creation myth. Similarly, the flood story in the Bible has its parallel with the Sumerian Gilgamesh epic. I've also done quite a bit of reading on the treatment of women during early Islamic culture and the "era of ignorance" (el-'ahil al-jahiliy) before Muhammad. Actually some of the treatment of women there came from Byzantium, not the Arabs. Victims of culture, whether women, spiders, or snakes.

I did not mean to typify my dad as stereotyping by race. He was informing me what the stereotypes were, but I didn't get that part at the time.

I like Dore's picture of Arachne from Purgatorio, Canto XII lines 43-45. In Longfellows translation (illustrated by Dore) it says:

O mad Arachne! so I thee beheld
E'en then half spider, sad upon the shreds
Of fabric wrought in evil hour for thee!

In the picture she looks rather like a child of the earth. Many people in California called the Jerusalem Cricket a child of the earth when I was a kid. Many of them called the Cricket a potato bug. I stuck with my grandfather's names for them--he was a farmer and a nurseryman and really knew his bugs. The child of the earth is a wind scorpion and, unlike a spider, has ten legs. Well, I guess two of them are pedipalps.



Child of the Earth or Wind Scorpion.

Wow, that spider is eliciting some very conflicting responses in me.

Man, I'm even starting to get creeped out by the spider pictures! hehe
Going to the new thread....

Karen O.