qebo’s 2015 garden (2)
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1qebo
Starting June with the almost blooming butterfly weed.

Today has been rainy (yay!) so no garden work has occurred. I wandered around the yard during a lunchtime lull. Still see two swallowtail eggs on the dill, and don’t see the third. Got photos of two moths, will post when I identify (or if I can’t).

Today has been rainy (yay!) so no garden work has occurred. I wandered around the yard during a lunchtime lull. Still see two swallowtail eggs on the dill, and don’t see the third. Got photos of two moths, will post when I identify (or if I can’t).
5qebo
>3 fuzzi: blister beetle
Yeah, it does. I looked through images and didn't find a match, maybe will ask BugGuide for ID.
Didn't check for the two unidentified moths today. Easier to page through Peterson Field Guide to Moths of Northeastern North America in daylight, which was limited today. Yesterday I was appreciating the rain. Today I think we've had enough.
Went to the community garden this evening and cleared about 1/3 of the newest food bank plot in sporadic drizzle, want to get it done during the week so I can plant this weekend.
Yeah, it does. I looked through images and didn't find a match, maybe will ask BugGuide for ID.
Didn't check for the two unidentified moths today. Easier to page through Peterson Field Guide to Moths of Northeastern North America in daylight, which was limited today. Yesterday I was appreciating the rain. Today I think we've had enough.
Went to the community garden this evening and cleared about 1/3 of the newest food bank plot in sporadic drizzle, want to get it done during the week so I can plant this weekend.
6fuzzi
We're getting the rain, yesterday and today.
Last night we had over 2". I have no idea what we've gotten so far today...but my pond was just about overflowing this morning. I hate to think of what it's like now.
Last night we had over 2". I have no idea what we've gotten so far today...but my pond was just about overflowing this morning. I hate to think of what it's like now.
9qebo
After several rainy chilly days, the sun emerged this afternoon, and several butterflies appeared in my yard: Cabbage White, Summer Azure, Red Admiral, Silver Spotted Skipper. I checked the two swallowtail eggs on the dill, haven’t hatched yet. Noticed another egg on a nearby dill, so I checked around the yard and found several more.
15qebo
>14 fuzzi: Yup. If you click the image you can see the larger version with somewhat blurry but recognizable caterpillars.
16qebo
Yesterday at the community garden I planted sunflowers in the corn / bean / squash plot. They’re in mesh cylinders partly so I know where they are, and partly because last year somebody chomped the sprouts.

I also planted another food bank plot, the one I cleared during the week. Onions at front left, started from seed and sitting on my deck for a month. Corn and beans in the row on the right. The two circle mounds toward the back are cantaloupe. Behind them are acorn squash, a type that doesn’t get very large. Somebody else may plant potatoes in the leftover patches. I started to put mulch on the plot, but the mulch is outside the gate, a delivery from the township, and after a few wheelbarrows full I was too tired to continue, so I finished today.


I also planted another food bank plot, the one I cleared during the week. Onions at front left, started from seed and sitting on my deck for a month. Corn and beans in the row on the right. The two circle mounds toward the back are cantaloupe. Behind them are acorn squash, a type that doesn’t get very large. Somebody else may plant potatoes in the leftover patches. I started to put mulch on the plot, but the mulch is outside the gate, a delivery from the township, and after a few wheelbarrows full I was too tired to continue, so I finished today.

19qebo
>18 fuzzi: People can do what they want with their own plots. Most people plant vegetables, some people add flowers, generally annuals. The fence around the garden is not exactly rectangular; one side bulges out enough for a stray plot, but the plotholder departed mid summer last year and the area became a weedy nuisance. A gardener whose plot is nearby suggested turning it into a flower garden for native perennials. There's no master plan; it's whatever people have on hand. I moved some milkweed there in late April. Someone donated goldenrod. I don't remember what else is there.
22CassieBash
>7 qebo: If you're careful not to get in the way of their mandibles, but pick them up at their thorax and hold them up to your ear, they make a high-pitched squeaking sound.
>13 qebo: They're so cute! I'm eagerly awaiting signs of eggs or cats on the Queen Anne's lace or the carrots.
>14 fuzzi: That was our Sunday, I think. Looks like it may have weakened a bit for you guys. Fortunately, caterpillars are excellent clingers--not that it's impossible for them to be dislodged. But we've had big storms bring down tree limbs, and when we'd be cleaning up, I'd come across cats calmly munching on the still-green foliage as if nothing had happened.
>13 qebo: They're so cute! I'm eagerly awaiting signs of eggs or cats on the Queen Anne's lace or the carrots.
>14 fuzzi: That was our Sunday, I think. Looks like it may have weakened a bit for you guys. Fortunately, caterpillars are excellent clingers--not that it's impossible for them to be dislodged. But we've had big storms bring down tree limbs, and when we'd be cleaning up, I'd come across cats calmly munching on the still-green foliage as if nothing had happened.
23qebo
>22 CassieBash: high-pitched squeaking sound
Never tried picking one up. Maybe I will.
The caterpillars are fine, now 1/4". That's been my experience too, the next morning they're contentedly munching away. I still see four eggs from four days ago, turning darker but no black dots yet. All of my dill is small, the tallest volunteers about 15", won't support hungry 2" caterpillars. I have plenty of Golden Alexander, but not sure the caterpillars would want to be switched over. I'll figure something out.
Never tried picking one up. Maybe I will.
The caterpillars are fine, now 1/4". That's been my experience too, the next morning they're contentedly munching away. I still see four eggs from four days ago, turning darker but no black dots yet. All of my dill is small, the tallest volunteers about 15", won't support hungry 2" caterpillars. I have plenty of Golden Alexander, but not sure the caterpillars would want to be switched over. I'll figure something out.
24qebo
Oh dear. An hour later, one of the caterpillars is gone. So I put the other caterpillar with its sprig of dill in a container on the back porch.
25CassieBash
>23 qebo: I've switched caterpillars from one food source to another many times and usually have no problems, as long as the food is still a host plant. I've found cats on dill and carrot and switched them to Queen Anne's lace--in fact, one year I took some cats from a friend's garden plot of parsley and raised them at home on the lace; I gladly accept caterpillars from people who want them to go to a "good home"! Push comes to shove, you're better off moving them than letting them starve.
26MarthaJeanne
If I were to find caterpillars on my carrots or parsley you would be welcome to them. But I don't know how to get them to you, and they would be in the wrong environment.
27CassieBash
>26 MarthaJeanne: I see you're in Vienna, Austria. That would definitely be the wrong environment! Our black swallowtail butterflies, I assume, would not be found on your plants, but I'm sure you have your own garden "visitors" (you may translate to "pests" if you wish). Feel free to share pictures or links to the species you'd find in your garden on my thread; I love seeing species not found in my backyard!
28qebo
>25 CassieBash: I've put sprigs of both in the container. This morning the caterpillar seems attached to the paper towel, moving its head but not its rear, so I'm guessing it's molting.
ETA: Mid afternoon, the caterpillar from the dill has migrated to the Golden Alexander.
ETA: Mid afternoon, the caterpillar from the dill has migrated to the Golden Alexander.
29qebo
The caterpillar in the container isn't exactly gallivanting about, but it's bigger than yesterday so presumably eating. The caterpillar on the cultivated dill has hatched; it is less than 1/8" and skinny. I can barely see it, can only see it because I knew exactly where it should be, needed a magnifying glass to confirm. I don't see eggs on the various volunteer dills but they're larger and I don't remember the exact location so I'll have to wait another day to find caterpillars.
ETA: Early afternoon found two caterpillars on the volunteer dill. Should be another two, but I don't see them, either as caterpillars or as eggs.
ETA: Early afternoon found two caterpillars on the volunteer dill. Should be another two, but I don't see them, either as caterpillars or as eggs.
30qebo
The caterpillar in the container is opinionated. I tried to switch it to a fresh sprig and it kept shaking its head no. I found 6 caterpillars on the dill, now that they're a bit larger. That's 5 small ones from the recent batch of eggs and 1 larger one that I hadn't noticed previously. I left them alone for now, but nature has proven hostile so I'll probably move them to a container.
31CassieBash
>30 qebo: It's a tough decision. I gathered three Spicebush swallowtail cats yesterday but while I was searching, so was a parasitic wasp mom. I recognized her species right away, having hatched them accidentally alongside the butterflies. I can only hope that I found the three I collected before she did.
32qebo
>31 CassieBash: I hadn't expected to get into the caterpillar business so soon. Won't get monarchs for another month and a half. But in previous years I've gotten very few swallowtails early in the season, and they've nearly all disappeared when small. I get lots of them late summer. By then the dill is mature and probably more protective; most of the caterpillars grow to 2" and pupate, but they're the ones that wait through the winter (and in my case always die). So I kinda want to see the full cycle into butterflies, which will happen with the current batch if I rescue them. A caterpillar on a 4" dill, or even a 15" dill, is conspicuous to predators.
33qebo
>30 qebo: Nature has already removed the largest of the swallowtail caterpillars I found this morning. I'd hoped it would last until I finished work this evening. So I've taken the other five into protective custody.

ETA: Found another little one.
ETA: And another. So that's 7 caterpillars in one bin, and 1 caterpillar in another bin. A reminder for accurate counting tomorrow morning when I clean and change the leaves.

ETA: Found another little one.
ETA: And another. So that's 7 caterpillars in one bin, and 1 caterpillar in another bin. A reminder for accurate counting tomorrow morning when I clean and change the leaves.
35qebo
Now I need 7 caterpillars to stop clinging to limp strands of dill and move to the fresh Golden Alexander. This has to be voluntary. I'll hurt them if I try to persuade.
36CassieBash
>35 qebo: They can be stubborn. Sometimes it helps if you lay the fresh leaves gently on top of the old leaves and the cats. Many caterpillars are more likely to explore their immediate surroundings than to venture too far from ready food, and many have the desire to climb up, presumably to munch fresh growth. Sooner or later, the dill won't supply them with what they need, and they'll move on.
37qebo
>36 CassieBash: Yeah, that's pretty much what I did, cut away the excess dill and placed GA within reach. A few have moved on. They're little, so I'm mostly worried about losing them or squishing them. The bottom of the container is littered with tiny dots of frass, and they've grown since yesterday, so they're OK.
Another survey of the dill in the yard didn't yield any more caterpillars or eggs.
Another survey of the dill in the yard didn't yield any more caterpillars or eggs.
38qebo
Another 3 swallowtail caterpillars from the community garden, where I have volunteer dill and fennel (because I grew them in my plot last year).
39qebo
An unexciting day in gardening. I weeded the side yard, result isn't lovely but at least appears reasonably under control. Carted trellises over to the community garden by car; now that they're there, I can set up during the week when I take evening walks and typically drop in along the way through the neighborhood.
40fuzzi
Not exciting, but fruitful. :)
I spent two hours this am weeding, watering, and compost/mulching. No great change in appearance, but the flowers should be "happy".
I spent two hours this am weeding, watering, and compost/mulching. No great change in appearance, but the flowers should be "happy".
42qebo
Last week was the annual Native Plants in the Landscape Conference. I did not attend the conference itself, but did drop by during the public hours of the plant sale. Today I planted most of what I got there.
At the side of the house, I had a Black Cohash (Cimicifuga racemosa). It produced a single flower in 2013, and looked to be increasing last year, then suddenly it collapsed. So now I’m trying a Wild Hydrangea (Hydrangea arborescens). Which, due to my neglect this past week, was droopy, so I cut it down to stubs.

These are Twin Leafs (Jefersonia diphylla), placed somewhat randomly in a spot that has been collecting weeds.

This is the part of the strip that’s fairly under control. Going from the top of the photo downward... Goatsbeard is next to the steps. White Wood Aster is quite happy and expanding. Wild Ginger is growing more dense but not spreading. My third or fourth try for ferns may be successful; this is the first time they’ve reappeared the year after planting.

At the side of the house, I had a Black Cohash (Cimicifuga racemosa). It produced a single flower in 2013, and looked to be increasing last year, then suddenly it collapsed. So now I’m trying a Wild Hydrangea (Hydrangea arborescens). Which, due to my neglect this past week, was droopy, so I cut it down to stubs.

These are Twin Leafs (Jefersonia diphylla), placed somewhat randomly in a spot that has been collecting weeds.

This is the part of the strip that’s fairly under control. Going from the top of the photo downward... Goatsbeard is next to the steps. White Wood Aster is quite happy and expanding. Wild Ginger is growing more dense but not spreading. My third or fourth try for ferns may be successful; this is the first time they’ve reappeared the year after planting.

44qebo
A friend who recently moved to a house with a biiig yard asked around for native plants, so I invited her over to take what she wanted of my many volunteers. This left a hole in the goldenrod, so I added another, Anisescented Goldenrod (Solidago odora). Crowded, so we’ll see who wins the space over time.

This space was going to get a milkweed with white flowers, but I delayed planting and killed it. So now it gets a White Turtlehead (Chelone glabra).

This space was going to get a milkweed with white flowers, but I delayed planting and killed it. So now it gets a White Turtlehead (Chelone glabra).
48qebo
I'm posting photos because it's too hot to garden this afternoon, though there's plenty more to do...
49MarthaJeanne
>46 qebo: What sort of soil do you have? Blueberrys like it sour. Which also means rainwater only if your water is hard, as ours is.
50qebo
>49 MarthaJeanne: I've been amending the soil with acidifier that's supposed to be for blueberries, but I haven't tested this year. I don't water the natives once they're established, so they are getting rainwater only.
51CassieBash
Ah, you're making far more progress than I. Of course, it would help if the heat, humidity, and rain would go away. I miss weeding. The lambs quarters I wanted to get under control do not! :)
52qebo
>51 CassieBash: I'm letting lots of “weeds” stay. The violets, for example, have become the default groundcover. As long as I keep them from crowding the intentional plants, they don’t cause trouble, they don’t get too big, and once they’re dense enough nothing much else grows through them; also they’re host for fritillaries. I keep a fair amount of the wood sorrel scattered about because the butterflies like it. I keep broadleaf plantain in areas that aren’t too visually prominent because I kind of like it, and it’s supposed to host buckeye butterflies though I have yet to see proof. Since your mention that lambsquarters host common sootywing skippers, I’ve kept a patch as an experiment. Some of my intentional plants are now so dense that weeds in their midst are scarce and well hidden; a lesson for a future garden.
53qebo
Now hoping the nearby thunderstorm will pass through here so I can take the lazy approach to watering my neighbor's garden...
54MarthaJeanne
>50 qebo: http://extension.psu.edu/plants/vegetable-fruit/news/2014/blueberries-2013-popul...
That's why I had no chance of keeping them in our previous garden. I started out with good soil for them, dug out an enormous hole, lined it with planks, filled it with the right earth, but we had a few summers with very little/no rain.
Can't really complain. One of those years was Chernobyl. Not a drop of rain for 10 weeks afterwards. But if I hadn't watered they would have died. Since I watered with hard water they died. Not a total loss. The raspberries decided they liked that patch and moved a few meters to take it over. The current garden is enough closer to the Danube to get significantly more rain.
That's why I had no chance of keeping them in our previous garden. I started out with good soil for them, dug out an enormous hole, lined it with planks, filled it with the right earth, but we had a few summers with very little/no rain.
Can't really complain. One of those years was Chernobyl. Not a drop of rain for 10 weeks afterwards. But if I hadn't watered they would have died. Since I watered with hard water they died. Not a total loss. The raspberries decided they liked that patch and moved a few meters to take it over. The current garden is enough closer to the Danube to get significantly more rain.
56qebo
>54 MarthaJeanne: Thanks. They definitely need more attention than I've been giving.
57MarthaJeanne
>56 qebo: Cute!
59qebo
I’ve done not a thing with the outside of the fence so far this year. Two years ago I planted clover, and last year it returned, but this year it did not and weeds have proliferated. I made a quick circuit to get the worst of the weeds, filling a yard debris bag.
My neighbor’s parking lot. On the other side of this fence are my blueberry bushes.

From my neighbor’s parking lot to my gate, along the alley. I removed the tallest scraggliest plants, let the others be.

From my gate to the street, along the alley. This is mostly hops. I removed some strays, and tucked in the vines.

Along the sidewalk near the alley, volunteer sunflowers. They can stay.

Along the sidewalk between the gate and the alley. Some of this is ragwort and goldenrod poking through the fence from the yard, also coral honeysuckle. I pulled out the most obvious weeds.

This is a weed, but for the moment it looks OK.

These are massive dandelions. I removed the stems. The flowers have already been and gone.

The patch of lambsquarters, with golden alexander poking through the fence, and the non-native bleeding heart along the side of the house.

My neighbor’s parking lot. On the other side of this fence are my blueberry bushes.

From my neighbor’s parking lot to my gate, along the alley. I removed the tallest scraggliest plants, let the others be.

From my gate to the street, along the alley. This is mostly hops. I removed some strays, and tucked in the vines.

Along the sidewalk near the alley, volunteer sunflowers. They can stay.

Along the sidewalk between the gate and the alley. Some of this is ragwort and goldenrod poking through the fence from the yard, also coral honeysuckle. I pulled out the most obvious weeds.

This is a weed, but for the moment it looks OK.

These are massive dandelions. I removed the stems. The flowers have already been and gone.

The patch of lambsquarters, with golden alexander poking through the fence, and the non-native bleeding heart along the side of the house.

63CassieBash
>52 qebo: Yeah, but in my case the lambs quarters are getting out of hand and growing into paths. But at least they aren't stinging nettle or poison ivy. ;))
>55 qebo:. Looks like a type of tree hopper. They can be quite colorful!
>58 qebo: Yard's looking good!
>55 qebo:. Looks like a type of tree hopper. They can be quite colorful!
>58 qebo: Yard's looking good!
64qebo
>63 CassieBash: tree hopper
Hmm, it does... a lot to choose from...
The yard is looking fairly civilized if you don't get too close. The yard debris bags are mostly old mulch mixed with weeds, need to be split up (too heavy for me to carry) and taken to the yard waste facility several miles away; city pickup is only once per month and won't accept this stuff.
Hmm, it does... a lot to choose from...
The yard is looking fairly civilized if you don't get too close. The yard debris bags are mostly old mulch mixed with weeds, need to be split up (too heavy for me to carry) and taken to the yard waste facility several miles away; city pickup is only once per month and won't accept this stuff.
67qebo
>66 2wonderY: Yup, that looks right. An interesting plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura_stramonium, but not one that should be casually hanging about in the cultivated garden.
68qebo
Cool. Lancaster PA mayfly swarm makes it to the BBC: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33129833 .
69qebo
I swung by the community garden yesterday evening to water anything that seemed sad, which wasn’t much. Status:
My corn / bean / squash plot:

The beans will need some training onto the corn trellis.


My tomato and pepper plot:

Food bank plot #1 with my extra tomatoes and peppers and beans, and someone else’s much smaller tomatoes and peppers.

Food bank plot #2 which is sprouting mostly thistle:

... but also cantaloupe...


... and acorn squash.

My corn / bean / squash plot:

The beans will need some training onto the corn trellis.


My tomato and pepper plot:

Food bank plot #1 with my extra tomatoes and peppers and beans, and someone else’s much smaller tomatoes and peppers.

Food bank plot #2 which is sprouting mostly thistle:

... but also cantaloupe...


... and acorn squash.

70CassieBash
>68 qebo: I love mayflies; I wish we had more of them around us. But they seem to prefer larger bodies of water than our koi/goldfish pond, and the closest body of water is Lake Maxinkuckee, which is a 15 minute drive away. Not far to us, but far for a mayfly. Maybe Lancaster can send us some mayflies, and I'll send North Carolina some refreshing rain to help them cool off.
Your fruit and veggies look very happy; may they bloom and prosper and provide many people with important nutrients. Yum!
Your fruit and veggies look very happy; may they bloom and prosper and provide many people with important nutrients. Yum!
71jjmcgaffey
>69 qebo: How do you know it's acorn squash, was it labeled? Ditto cantaloupe? I can spot "squash", but the distinctions escape me entirely. This year I may gain some knowledge - for instance, my butternuts and pattypan seem to both be upright plants, while the sugar pie pumpkin and the Bianco de Trieste are more trailing. But all the leaves look about the same to me. And those are pretty young - are those cotyledons, or real leaves? Most of mine have jaggy-edged leaves.
72qebo
>71 jjmcgaffey: Seed packets. I can't tell by looking at the plants.
73jjmcgaffey
OK, thanks. I've got all of mine labeled - good to know I'm not missing some clue.
74qebo
>73 jjmcgaffey: I gave a tour of the community garden to a neighbor who is a Master Gardener, and she was especially interested in figuring out how to distinguish one squash from another. Can't say we made lots of progress.
75norabelle414
The reason so many young squash plants look the same is that most squash plants are all the same species (Cucurbita pepo). It's very controversial in the genetics world and really no one can agree on which squash are species and which are sub-species and which are cultivars.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucurbita_pepo
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cucurbita_pepo
76qebo
>75 norabelle414: Yeah, I knew there was a family - genus relationship of squashes and melons and such, did not know one species was responsible for such a variety. Fun with genetics. Thanks.
81CassieBash
>79 qebo: I can't recall ever seeing a mydas fly. Our "freaky" flies are robber flies; they pounce on their prey which is usually anything they can catch, including flying insects. I've seen one catch a fly, though not on the wing. (Robber flies are supposed to be good at that.)
Your mydas flies look bigger than our robber flies; the mydas look as large as horseflies. Is this an accurate comparison?
Your mydas flies look bigger than our robber flies; the mydas look as large as horseflies. Is this an accurate comparison?
82qebo
The mydas flies are about 1-1/2" to 2". The horseflies I'm familiar with are maybe 3/4", but I live in a relatively tame world so I'm sure larger ones exist.
83qebo
Did not accomplish much gardening this weekend. Yesterday was booked with other events. Today was hot and humid. I carted bags of yard debris to the mulching place, a time sink, but I’d put the bags in my car last weekend and needed the space. Then I went tomato trellis shopping. Then I removed the two sprawly Carolina Lupines, which were stunting the growth of a False Indigo, and took them to a friend (see >44 qebo:) who has ample space. Then I dropped off the tomato trellises at the community garden, put some in place and left the rest for weekday evenings.
Sorry guys, but you don’t belong here.

The False Indigo is at the right, growing sideways because it couldn’t get through.

On the way out. Apparently it does not transplant well because of a taproot, so we'll see.
Sorry guys, but you don’t belong here.

The False Indigo is at the right, growing sideways because it couldn’t get through.

On the way out. Apparently it does not transplant well because of a taproot, so we'll see.
88CassieBash
>86 qebo: Butterfly cats have a tendency to use the sides and tops of containers; I don't know why. It doesn't matter how many sticks you put in, until the top or sides are filled, they just seem to want to make it as difficult for us as possible! :)
89qebo
>88 CassieBash: A fair proportion of the monarchs last year used the cardboard boxes, but those were closer to the top of the container. The swallowtails in the yard tend to choose the fence, so I was hopeful that it would seek a solid surface, but alas. Some of the batch of seven are about ready, so maybe I'll see variation in behavior over the next few days, or maybe not.
After I contained all of these caterpillars, I found another on the dill in the raised bed. I let it be, and it was managing well, grew larger than the others that had disappeared, survived a storm on Saturday night, was munching away on Sunday morning. And then on Sunday afternoon it was gone. Too soon to pupate, so another casualty of predators. Even if my contained caterpillars are idiots, at least they're safe.
After I contained all of these caterpillars, I found another on the dill in the raised bed. I let it be, and it was managing well, grew larger than the others that had disappeared, survived a storm on Saturday night, was munching away on Sunday morning. And then on Sunday afternoon it was gone. Too soon to pupate, so another casualty of predators. Even if my contained caterpillars are idiots, at least they're safe.
90qebo
One of the seven has begun wandering, so I moved it to the container with the pupating caterpillar.
ETA1: Round and round and round. I wonder whether it realizes that it's not actually getting anywhere different?
ETA2: And hours later it seems to have settled on the zipper.
ETA1: Round and round and round. I wonder whether it realizes that it's not actually getting anywhere different?
ETA2: And hours later it seems to have settled on the zipper.
91qebo
2 chrysalides, 3 wanderers who seem to have settled down, 6 still munching.
ETA: At last check, all three wanderers seemed to be in prep mode: one on the cardboard, one on a twig, one on the zipper. There's already a chrysalis on the zipper. Fortunately they're located such that I can still get the door open.
ETA: At last check, all three wanderers seemed to be in prep mode: one on the cardboard, one on a twig, one on the zipper. There's already a chrysalis on the zipper. Fortunately they're located such that I can still get the door open.
92CassieBash
>90 qebo: The zipper? Really? And here I thought you were exaggerating the idiot part.... 😉
>91 qebo: I'm envious in a way. Other than my handful of spicebush swallowtails, I've not had any other swallowtail larva and other than the occasional adult spice bush variety I've not seen any of the butterflies. No tigers, no blacks. No pipevine swallowtails, either, but then I haven't gotten my pipevine plant yet. But we have plenty of host plants for the other two. Out of curiosity, what was your winter and spring like? Perhaps our unusually long winter and downright chilly spring is the culprit....
But I am happy for you! This would be the first generation here; often in Indiana we have two, with the last generation wintering over. I'm going to assume the same would be true for you. Which means in a few weeks, you'll have adults ready to find mates and lay eggs.
>91 qebo: I'm envious in a way. Other than my handful of spicebush swallowtails, I've not had any other swallowtail larva and other than the occasional adult spice bush variety I've not seen any of the butterflies. No tigers, no blacks. No pipevine swallowtails, either, but then I haven't gotten my pipevine plant yet. But we have plenty of host plants for the other two. Out of curiosity, what was your winter and spring like? Perhaps our unusually long winter and downright chilly spring is the culprit....
But I am happy for you! This would be the first generation here; often in Indiana we have two, with the last generation wintering over. I'm going to assume the same would be true for you. Which means in a few weeks, you'll have adults ready to find mates and lay eggs.
93qebo
>91 qebo: idiot
Three years ago I followed several black swallowtail caterpillars after they departed the dill in my yard. One went up the brick wall of my house two stories to the eaves, walked back and forth upside down for awhile, didn’t care for the location, and dropped down onto the sidewalk (it was stunned for a few minutes, then continued on). A zipper is sensible in comparison. Useful to know that they find it appealing; wonder what I can substitute to lure them away.
I typically get lots of black swallowtails in August and September. I’ve sometimes seen a few this time of year, but they’ve disappeared while small. This is the first time I’ve tried raising them, figured I may as well since I already had containers on hand for monarchs. I haven't found any eggs since this batch.
Three years ago I followed several black swallowtail caterpillars after they departed the dill in my yard. One went up the brick wall of my house two stories to the eaves, walked back and forth upside down for awhile, didn’t care for the location, and dropped down onto the sidewalk (it was stunned for a few minutes, then continued on). A zipper is sensible in comparison. Useful to know that they find it appealing; wonder what I can substitute to lure them away.
I typically get lots of black swallowtails in August and September. I’ve sometimes seen a few this time of year, but they’ve disappeared while small. This is the first time I’ve tried raising them, figured I may as well since I already had containers on hand for monarchs. I haven't found any eggs since this batch.
95qebo
Three more wanderers today, all settled into reasonable locations in the other container. One was seeming content at the start of the zipper, which would've really made things difficult, so I tapped until it moved away.
96norabelle414
>95 qebo: Maybe you should hang some other zippers in the container
97qebo
>96 norabelle414: Good idea. :-) I've been considering how to do something like that. I'm supposing that the caterpillar is wandering around on the mesh, and encounters a relatively solid linear surface. I think the zipper would have to be attached securely and seem better than the real zipper, or maybe I would improve the chances with multiple zippers. Simpler for me if I could wait for the chrysalis to form then detach the zipper. Only three more swallowtail caterpillars to experiment with, and probably not enough time to go zipper shopping. Monarchs are different; they go directly to the top and stay there.
98qebo
In the Facebook group "Butterfly Enthusiast", someone posted a photo of a swallowtail caterpillar that settled on a swallowtail chrysalis: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207302715430161&set=gm.10153349742... . I'd repost the photo for efficient illustration, but that's surely a violation of etiquette. It's a public group though.
100qebo
Went to the community garden to get things moderately under control before tomorrow’s expected 2-1/2” of rain.
The corn/bean/squash plot from about the same angle as >69 qebo: ten days ago for comparison...

...and from the opposite side.

The tomato & pepper plot with volunteer dill.

The food bank plots, recently weeded, with trellises added to the tomatoes.
The corn/bean/squash plot from about the same angle as >69 qebo: ten days ago for comparison...

...and from the opposite side.

The tomato & pepper plot with volunteer dill.

The food bank plots, recently weeded, with trellises added to the tomatoes.
101CassieBash
>98 qebo:. Yeah, I've had double-ups happen, too. Usually with my spicebush swallowtails.
>100 qebo:. Rain. I'm so tired of rain. But on the bright side, my milkweeds are loving it--particularly the swampies.
>100 qebo:. Rain. I'm so tired of rain. But on the bright side, my milkweeds are loving it--particularly the swampies.
103qebo
Afternoon caterpillar status:
8 chrysalides, 1 harnessed, 2 wandering. So I am out of the daily feeding and cleaning business.
8 chrysalides, 1 harnessed, 2 wandering. So I am out of the daily feeding and cleaning business.
105fuzzi
>55 qebo: It is a Broad-headed Sharpshooter (Oncometopia orbona), and I only know that because I submitted a similar photo to bugguide.net, and they ID'd it for me.
Blueberries like coffee grounds, as they are acidic. Do not spread ashes nearby, as it raises the pH to alkaline.
Love the progress of the gardens and the butterflies!
Blueberries like coffee grounds, as they are acidic. Do not spread ashes nearby, as it raises the pH to alkaline.
Love the progress of the gardens and the butterflies!
106qebo
>105 fuzzi: Oncometopia orbona
Thanks!
coffee grounds
Yup, and I have an ample supply. The blueberries are producing new leaves now, so I'm optimistic.
Nothing's happening with the swallowtails yet, I'm just waiting. Sometimes I put them out on the back porch during the day so they'll cook faster, but recent days have been relatively cool and overcast so not much point. I bring them in at night regardless because I don't know what else is out there.
Thanks!
coffee grounds
Yup, and I have an ample supply. The blueberries are producing new leaves now, so I'm optimistic.
Nothing's happening with the swallowtails yet, I'm just waiting. Sometimes I put them out on the back porch during the day so they'll cook faster, but recent days have been relatively cool and overcast so not much point. I bring them in at night regardless because I don't know what else is out there.
107qebo
A round of thistle patrol at the community garden yesterday evening. I’ve given up trying to tame the corn / bean / squash patch. The beans are going wherever they feel like, and the squash is extending into the aisles.
Here’s the standard view from the corner. You can see the water tanks in the background near the center. The teepee sheet has been removed, now that beans and squash are growing up the sides.

Here’s the same view as >100 qebo:, only a week later but notably progressed.


For example, pumpkins!


Also squash.


And birdhouse gourd blossoms.


And bean blossoms.

Here’s the standard view from the corner. You can see the water tanks in the background near the center. The teepee sheet has been removed, now that beans and squash are growing up the sides.

Here’s the same view as >100 qebo:, only a week later but notably progressed.


For example, pumpkins!


Also squash.


And birdhouse gourd blossoms.


And bean blossoms.

110qebo
I’ve been checking the first batch of swallowtail chrysalides frequently, figuring soonish but not necessarily imminent; they pupated June 23-26, but the weather has been relatively cool and overcast. I thought yesterday that the first to pupate was getting darker, but the others didn’t seem notably changed. I didn’t see anything different this morning. I peeked in at lunchtime and... oh! there’s a butterfly! This was the second to pupate, on the zipper.

Today has been cool and rainy, so I kept the container inside. Fortunately the rain is about done, and the temperature is supposed to rise this afternoon. I moved the butterfly to the back porch, where it can rest until it’s ready to fly. It’s a boy.


Today has been cool and rainy, so I kept the container inside. Fortunately the rain is about done, and the temperature is supposed to rise this afternoon. I moved the butterfly to the back porch, where it can rest until it’s ready to fly. It’s a boy.

111qebo
Oh, and, I found another caterpillar. Saw an egg on the dill a few days ago, didn't see it yesterday, and now it's a caterpillar, maybe 3/16". It'll probably be gone tomorrow if it stays outside, so I contained it.
112qebo
Silver Spotted Skipper caterpillar! I’ve been checking the wisteria w/o success. There is _lots_ of wisteria. Today after several false alarms (the wisteria seems to be a popular food item), I noticed this, and pried it slightly open to see inside. The caterpillar appears to be about 5/8”. So now it’s in a container.


113CassieBash
>112 qebo: Don't have any signs of new swallowtails, black or otherwise, but I did find a silver spotted skipper cat myself, crawling on a milkweed. It's large so I think it's close to pupating.
114qebo
>113 CassieBash: I added several layers of leaves to the container so it can find places between leaves. Will this be OK? The internet sez they stay between the leaves to pupate.
115CassieBash
>114 qebo:. Yep, that'll do.
The strangest pupation habit of any Lep I've raised was the eight-spotted forester, which pupates within pulpy wood. I literally put a piece of half-rotten tree branch at the bottom of the tank and sure enough, they went straight in when they were ready.
The strangest pupation habit of any Lep I've raised was the eight-spotted forester, which pupates within pulpy wood. I literally put a piece of half-rotten tree branch at the bottom of the tank and sure enough, they went straight in when they were ready.
116qebo
>115 CassieBash: Thanks.
The chrysalis on the cardboard box of >94 qebo: and the caterpillar of >111 qebo: have gone to my niece's kids for education / entertainment.
The chrysalis on the cardboard box of >94 qebo: and the caterpillar of >111 qebo: have gone to my niece's kids for education / entertainment.
117qebo
Two more butterflies today, both female. I took several photos, without noticing that the SD card wasn’t in the camera. And now they've flown away. So instead, you get this... Several days ago I casually opened the container door to see whether the chrysalides were changing color, and oops, I dislodged the chrysalis that had attached to the lower end of the zipper. What to do? The internet sez it can lie on its side and it’ll be OK if there’s a stick to climb. Also demonstrates various ways to rehang. I used Elmer’s glue, figured it’d hold for a few days protected from weather. The chrysalis was squirmy. I didn't entirely trust the glue, so I added reinforcements: a pin through the remaining silk, and a string harness just in case. I was worried that I might've hurt it, but it was one of this morning's eclosures.
119qebo
A while later, the Comma was flitting around the hops, landing for nanoseconds, egg-laying behavior. Lotsa leaves, and not so easy to get at them (on the yard side, hops is inches away from mountain mint, which is a hotbed of bees and wasps) or distinguish one from another. But the butterfly landed at the ends of two tendrils on the alley side too. No wonder I’ve never found eggs searching at random; they’re tiny and green. Here are three, adding to the menagerie.
120lkernagh
Wow. I am so impressed - and so exhausted - by all the fantastic gardening work you have been doing over the past 3 months! Your yard and the community garden look amazing. So cool about the swallowtail butterflies!
121CassieBash
>117 qebo: I've used the glue and the pin method whenever possible, but I've had ones where there's not really much choice other than to leave them on their sides. It does work OK; I always make sure that the stick--or in my case, the wooden shish-ka-bob skewer--is right by the chrysalis. I wouldn't have thought about the string harness; I'd be concerned that it would interfere with their emergence.
123SqueakyChu
Love your various gardens and especially the black swallowtail butterfly!
124qebo
>121 CassieBash: Well, they harness themselves, and I didn't trust the glue to hold if it squirmed.
125CassieBash
>124 qebo: True, but their harnesses aren't as thick as yours, and I would have been concerned about their wiggle room when hatching, and if they'd be able to get past the harness. Good to know it works; I'm adding that to my repertoire of tricks.
126qebo
>125 CassieBash: Yeah, that's a point. The string was fairly loose, intended more to prevent the chrysalis from flopping down than to keep it secured to the stick.
127CassieBash
>126 qebo: If I need to try it, I'll keep the string loose. Noted. :)
128qebo
Another swallowtail butterfly out this morning. It was restless, pacing upside down at the top of the mesh, then flew away immediately, so I don't know whether male or female.
The silver spotted skipper has created a new cave but I still haven't seen it.
The silver spotted skipper has created a new cave but I still haven't seen it.
130qebo
Two more swallowtails out this morning, both female. It's down to two chrysalides now.
The silver spotted skipper seems to be about 1", but I can't really see it.
The comma eggs haven't yet hatched.
The silver spotted skipper seems to be about 1", but I can't really see it.
The comma eggs haven't yet hatched.
131qebo
A brief survey of the yard yields 11 swallowtail eggs and a 1/2" caterpillar. I let all of them be. I'll see how the caterpillar fares now that the dill is fairly mature.
132CassieBash
Wow! You're doing marvelously with those swallowtails! Wish we had more here, but these cool nights and overcast days are just not conducive to butterfly populations.
133ronincats
Bit of mixed feeling there, I'll bet. But you've certainly done your bit to ensure the swallowtail population in the area.
135qebo
A silver spotted skipper caterpillar sighting! I put the bin on my desk for the day. It's bigger than I thought. I got the camera out and maybe it detected movement because it immediately retreated.
138CassieBash
>136 qebo: Glad you were finally able to sight your little friend! It's always a bummer when they hide and you're never quite sure what's going on with them. Mine was kind enough to roll the paper towel into a tube with the open end facing up (suspect he was sort of forced to by the way the towel was naturally lying) so that I can look in and see him. :)
141Storeetllr
Very cool! Lovely pic of the butterfly and milkweed flowers.
Your milkweed is way bigger than mine, which doesn't seem to be growing much at all and no flowers or even buds, though it looks healthy. Well, it's my first year, so...
Your milkweed is way bigger than mine, which doesn't seem to be growing much at all and no flowers or even buds, though it looks healthy. Well, it's my first year, so...
142qebo
Caterpillar update: The silver spotted skipper has pupated, or so I'm supposing. I was having trouble finding tiny cabbage white caterpillars on wilting mustard leaves, so over several days with a diminishing count I draped old leaves over the mustard plant so any invisible caterpillars could crawl to freedom, and now that's all of them, better off outside. The comma eggs seem to have hatched some days ago, and I've been supplying fresh hops leaves, but still no sign of caterpillars so I'm supposing they're gone, and next time I find eggs I should leave them outside. I uprooted several volunteer dills over the weekend, checked for black swallowtail eggs and caterpillars, moved a couple of caterpillars and brought two eggs inside, where one hatched overnight and the other appears imminent. The caterpillar count outside decreases daily, so I'll probably get back into the nanny business. One outside black swallowtail caterpillar that I've been keeping an eye on did reach maturity, was about 2" yesterday morning then disappeared, presumably marched off to pupate. I'll look for it, but chances that I'll find it are minimal.
143CassieBash
>142 qebo: I've never tried raising question marks or comma butterflies from eggs, but then I don't go out of my way to look for the eggs of most species--mainly I look for the silkworm, swallowtail, and monarch species. Whenever I do raise eggs, I always put them in a completely closed-up container and just make sure the food is fresh. This seems to work most of the time, and I don't have caterpillars wandering around loose.
144qebo
>143 CassieBash: Yeah, that method works for monarchs and swallowtails... The hops leaves wilt quickly, so maybe weren't fresh enough, though still I would've expected to see wandering caterpillars in the morning if they weren't happy. I may look for caterpillars on the hops in the yard.
145CassieBash
>143 CassieBash: Commas also eat elm, I think, and stinging nettle like their close cousins, the question marks (but I'm the only person I know crazy enough to mess with nettle). You might put some elm leaves in with the eggs so that even if the hops are wilty, the elm will stay fresher longer and provide the necessary air and humidity. I always take small cuttings, rather than strip leaves, since the stems will help the leaves stay moist longer. I personally think that stinging nettle, as unpleasant to harvest as it is, does remarkably well, wilt-wise, for a non-woody stemmed plant, and that's one reason why I tend to prefer it over the elm. Hackberry leaves as a type of elm do well, too, as long as you harvest old-growth and not new-growth leaves. I've noticed that older hackberry leaves tend to thicken up and retain moisture better than the soft baby leaves.
146qebo
>145 CassieBash: I would have to find an elm tree and stinging nettle... not sure where either of these resides.
Yeah, I include stems. I'm still using Golden Alexander for the swallowtails, because the stems and leaves stay fresh longer than dill, and so far the caterpillars have been willing to transfer.
Yeah, I include stems. I'm still using Golden Alexander for the swallowtails, because the stems and leaves stay fresh longer than dill, and so far the caterpillars have been willing to transfer.
147CassieBash
>146 qebo: so far the caterpillars have been willing to transfer That's good. Sure beats that time back in >35 qebo: when you had those stubborn babies. But isn't that parenthood, though? Even when you try to tell them what's best for them, sometimes they still have to figure it out on their own. ;)
148qebo
>147 CassieBash: A tiny strand of dill can go a long way for a recently hatched caterpillar. They don't move until they have to.
149qebo
Someone from the community garden just reported a monarch sighting on my milkweed along the fence there.
150CassieBash
>149 qebo: :) !!!!
153fuzzi
>151 qebo:, >152 qebo: !!!!!!! :)
I saw a very tiny dark yellow skipper yesterday, but could not get close enough for a photo, or even a visual ID.
I saw a very tiny dark yellow skipper yesterday, but could not get close enough for a photo, or even a visual ID.
154qebo
Gardenwise, not lots is happening. The temperature was in the 90s this weekend. I've been weeding the back yard in small patches, filled a couple of yard debris bags, but also left "weeds" in place as ground cover so photos won't indicate the labor involved. I harvested some beans and squash at the community garden; corn's not yet ready. The "three sisters" are getting kinda straggly and buggy. The peppera are producing, some are ready to harvest and some are not. Lotsa tomatoes but still green.
155qebo
On July 4 I gave a swallowtail caterpillar to my niece for her kids. She emailed last week with a photo, said it was now an inch long. I said that seems kinda slow, I'd expect a chrysalis or pretty close by now, maybe it's a temperature thing? And yes, turned out they'd kept it in the air conditioned house for a week and it didn't grow much, then they put it in the much warmer garage.
The niece emailed this morning to ask whether I know anything about the huge horned caterpillars that ate half of her tomato plant overnight. Yes! I want them! I have tomatoes on my deck for exactly this purpose. So she'll keep one for her kids, and give me the other four.
In other caterpillar news, I have three black swallowtail caterpillars inside, and generally find a half dozen or so outside when I check the dill and parsley; they haven't been disappearing, so I'm letting them be. The silver spotted skipper of >136 qebo: is indeed a chrysalis; I peeked over the weekend. I watched a silver spotted skipper laying eggs on the wisteria over the weekend.
The niece emailed this morning to ask whether I know anything about the huge horned caterpillars that ate half of her tomato plant overnight. Yes! I want them! I have tomatoes on my deck for exactly this purpose. So she'll keep one for her kids, and give me the other four.
In other caterpillar news, I have three black swallowtail caterpillars inside, and generally find a half dozen or so outside when I check the dill and parsley; they haven't been disappearing, so I'm letting them be. The silver spotted skipper of >136 qebo: is indeed a chrysalis; I peeked over the weekend. I watched a silver spotted skipper laying eggs on the wisteria over the weekend.
156CassieBash
>155 qebo: Temp does effect growth, both before the chrysalis/cocoon and after. I'm awaiting hornworms but I'm not holding out much hope--again, this year has been really poor for leps in our area. We got a little over 2.5 inches of rain in less than 2 hours on Saturday night--another flash flood warning that night. I'm still saying the excessive wet, cool temps, and gloom have been hurting our populations, though I don't have anything official to back up my theory, but since we hit our first 90+ degree temps since May, I think I may have a case....
159fuzzi
>158 qebo: and >158 qebo: oooh!
There's some very fuzzy yellow/white caterpillar(s) around the yard. I've found them on different plants, so they don't seem to be discriminating. It's yellow underneath, with long and silky white hair, no spines or colors.
Not the best, but here's one picture:

There's some very fuzzy yellow/white caterpillar(s) around the yard. I've found them on different plants, so they don't seem to be discriminating. It's yellow underneath, with long and silky white hair, no spines or colors.
Not the best, but here's one picture:

160qebo
>159 fuzzi: I will defer to CassieBash for identification of fuzzy yellow caterpillars.
161CassieBash
>160 qebo: Without my guide, I'm not going to be specific, but I'm guessing it's a yellow bear/tiger moth type species. In fact, he could be a yellow bear.
162fuzzi
The hairs of that caterpillar were SO long and silky-looking, not like the black and red wooly bears. Those look more like scrub brushes.
163CassieBash
>162 fuzzi: Not wooly bear, yellow bear. This is one of those species that has a different name for the caterpillar--yellow bears are Virginian tiger moths (not to be confused with the virgin tiger moth). This was what my fuzzy color-changing caterpillar turned out to be; even though the name is "yellow bear" they can apparently be all sorts of colors (and obviously can change their minds about which color to be!). The picture at the link here does rather look a lot like yours, so even though I haven't consulted a guidebook, I'm going to say there's a good chance it's a yellow bear caterpillar.
164qebo
Look what I got today. :-) From my niece, delivered by her mother who dropped off the box and promptly skedaddled, glad to be rid of them. There were supposed to be five, but my niece discovered one in the garage after the box was taken away, supposes it got out through an airhole in the plastic cover, so she asked me to account for the others. Which I will do tomorrow. I added more leaves and fruit from my tomato plants, and put the box in a mesh container on my back porch. I didn’t want to mess with the pupae uninformed. I’ve since found a couple of caretaking guides:
http://caterpillarart.com/nature/raising-tobacco-hornworms
http://www.clubfauna.com/articles/invertebrates/breeding-hornworms/
These are tobacco hornworms. Only one is still eating. Another is halfway in the soil. The other two, assuming they're there, are buried.
http://entomologytoday.org/2013/12/14/how-to-tell-the-difference-between-tomato-...

http://caterpillarart.com/nature/raising-tobacco-hornworms
http://www.clubfauna.com/articles/invertebrates/breeding-hornworms/
These are tobacco hornworms. Only one is still eating. Another is halfway in the soil. The other two, assuming they're there, are buried.
http://entomologytoday.org/2013/12/14/how-to-tell-the-difference-between-tomato-...

165NorthernStar
>164 qebo: aww - that is so sweet that your neice thought you would like them. I'm guessing that they would have been "disposed of" otherwise.
166qebo
>165 NorthernStar: Well, she emailed w/ photo to ask whether I knew anything about the huge caterpillars that had eaten her tomato plant overnight. And no, she didn't sound keen to keep them around. Looks like the last one burrowed overnight; I don't see it and plenty of food is still in the box. I'll rearrange things this evening after work and hopefully account for them all.
I checked for caterpillars on the dill this morning and found none, not a 100% reliable report, but the five I found yesterday were large and they've probably mostly marched off to pupate. The three inside caterpillars are still eating though one appears almost ready to pupate.
I checked for caterpillars on the dill this morning and found none, not a 100% reliable report, but the five I found yesterday were large and they've probably mostly marched off to pupate. The three inside caterpillars are still eating though one appears almost ready to pupate.
167fuzzi
>163 CassieBash: aha! I'd misread your post, thanks.
168CassieBash
>164 qebo: Awesome! Doesn't look like we're going to get any at all this year. I guess a year off from raising them won't kill me. In some ways, since our mosquito population is so bad and they've confirmed West Nile in the populations (and one confirmed human case in Elkhart County), I'm glad I don't have a ton of caterpillar species. The more host plant species I have to gather, the longer I'm a target for every bloodsucking, flying fiend out there. :)
170qebo
I haven’t posted a yard photo since >64 qebo: on June 14, so here it is for the record. Growth has occurred. It’s chronically in need of weeding, but July is invariably cured by November, so I deal with the worst of it when I can and don’t otherwise worry too much.
171CassieBash
>169 qebo: They'll burrow and surface a few times before settling in to make their cocoon. They'll make a "cave" in the dirt surrounded by a hard shell formed by the substrate (I didn't see this mentioned anywhere on those linked resources, so I thought you ought to know). I use sand so I don't know what they do with other substrate material, but to me it looks like they make the shell by creating mud (using their spit?) and packing it around them and digging out the middle. If you decide to dig up your hornworms as suggested, then be aware of this shell. It isn't anywhere near impervious to a human finger so you can accidentally poke through and potentially harm the hornworm. What I do is brush loose sand away until I find a shell and then I pick away carefully at the shell to expose the pupa--but only after several days. I wait until the pupation process is likely to be complete so I don't disturb the hornworm and possibly upset the process. The one in the bottom picture is preparing to pupate; he's got that distinctive purplish blush that this species gets when it's prepping. It may take him a couple of days to settle yet, though, so don't worry if he keeps going in and out of the dirt.
>170 qebo: From here I can't see the weeds. But there's that nice dill down there. :)
>170 qebo: From here I can't see the weeds. But there's that nice dill down there. :)
172qebo
>171 CassieBash: Oh, thanks. I was not aware. They've all (except the one) burrowed within the last few days, were wiggly when dug up. The cardboard box had just a couple inches of soil. I put them in organic potting soil in small flower pots, plopped them on top then added enough soil for light coverage. They were all wiggly. One of the sources said to keep the soil somewhat moist by misting. I don't really want to dig them up, but my niece wanted a count, and the cardboard box was awkward.
173CassieBash
>171 CassieBash: I've dug them up completely before they've created the shell with no harm done. Sometimes they do pupate on top of the soil too, so you're probably good to just let them sit tight for now, now that you've gotten the count. I wouldn't saturate the soil, but misting would be OK. I often don't do anything with mine but our humidity is usually sufficient to keep the pupae from drying out, which is why they want it somewhat moist, I'm guessing. Usually if I have one die on me (for reasons other than parasites), they dry out during the winter, not the summer/fall months. And even then it's rare.
174qebo
>173 CassieBash: Yeah, one of the web sites said the wings may be malformed if the soil is too dry, so I'll monitor.
175qebo
The tobacco hornworm has burrowed. The largest indoor swallowtail caterpillar is a chrysalis. The other two are still eating. The silver spotted skipper I haven't mentioned in awhile because nothing discernible is happening. It's been 10 days, so I assume it'll emerge as a butterfly soonish.
178fuzzi
>170 qebo: looks good to me. :)
179qebo
Another indoor swallowtail caterpillar is wandering. A female swallowtail butterfly made a quick trip through the yard, landing a few times on the dill. I didn't find any eggs but I didn't look that hard. The monarch eggs I found last week disappeared, and I haven't found caterpillars either.
180fuzzi
>179 qebo: the swallowtails here do that, make a quick round of the yard, and leave. I have lots of bright and attractive flowers, but the swallowtails don't stop. I think the one I saw yesterday was a female Black Swallowtail: I saw a dark butterfly with "tails", and blue markings across the bottom of the wings. I wish she'd stayed just for a minute or two. I would have loved a photo. :(
181qebo
The silver spotted skipper has emerged as a butterfly. I didn't see it this morning when I checked. I didn't notice it until after dark. I don't want to release it outside until morning, so I gave it a mush of banana and sugar and water just in case, but I assume it'll be OK.
182CassieBash
>181 qebo: I don't know about the skipper, but you might attract a minion! :) )
184fuzzi
>183 qebo: yes!!!!
185CassieBash
>183 qebo: Congrats!
187CassieBash
>186 qebo: Lovely start to a hornworm pupa. I've had ones that have decided to pupate completely up top, too.
188qebo
Monarch on the milkweed. I was watching from the balcony during a conference call, no photos, seemed it was going for both nectar and lower leaves, so I'd guess female laying eggs, but I doubt I'll find them.
190CassieBash
>189 qebo: How could I not at least check... And that's how it starts! By the way, is that swamp milkweed?
191qebo
>190 CassieBash: Yes, swamp. I have both swamp and common. Didn't see any eggs on the common this time, but other times that's all they choose.
192CassieBash
>191 qebo: Swamp's better for them; it has higher toxicity levels and makes them more toxic to their predators. That's what I read in that monarch butterfly book I read earlier, anyway.
193qebo
Some of the monarch caterpillars hatched overnight. I'm afraid of losing or squishing them at this stage, so I added fresh leaves and I'll figure out what I've got when they're bigger.
194qebo
7 monarch babies in the leaf debris of yesterday. I put them in a separate bin with fresh leaves. I don't see any more caterpillars or eggs, but somebody's missing, so I added fresh leaves in hopes it'll surface. Also have 2 more eggs found while foraging for leaves outside, so I'm sure there are more but I haven't seriously searched. I did a superficial check of the milkweed at the community garden yesterday evening, didn't find anything but I'm not sure that means much. I optimistically ordered 100 tags yesterday.
195CassieBash
>194 qebo: I've had that "missing caterpillar" issue happen, and they do often turn up. Just hatched monarch cats are so tiny!
196qebo
>195 CassieBash: Yeah, yesterday was confusing and fraught with peril, but most of the caterpillars found fresh leaves and were obvious this morning, about 1/8" - 3/32".
197qebo
Checked the milkweed more carefully this evening, and found 11 more eggs, now contained inside.
198qebo
I've given up on the missing egg/caterpillar; it should be 1/4" by now. One of the accidentally found eggs hatched overnight. So the monarch count is: 8 caterpillars, 12 eggs.
199qebo
Monarch status: 2 eggs, 18 caterpillars; most of the eggs hatched overnight.
Swallowtail status: 2 chrysalides, 1 butterfly (male) released this morning. There was a swallowtail in the yard laying eggs yesterday afternoon but I haven't searched, and I'll probably let them be outside.
Swallowtail status: 2 chrysalides, 1 butterfly (male) released this morning. There was a swallowtail in the yard laying eggs yesterday afternoon but I haven't searched, and I'll probably let them be outside.
202CassieBash
>200 qebo: I've never tried raising a frit from an egg. However, I do know that most fritillary species are nocturnal in their feeding habits and may hide during the day. As small as that violet is between the flagstones, however, it wouldn't take long for the caterpillar to run out of space to hide!
203fuzzi
>200 qebo: :happy:
204qebo
I've only superficially checked the milkweed at the community garden, and this is obviously insufficient; I was over there yesterday evening and in the patch near my plots...


At home, the batch of 7 that hatched August 3 & 4.

I have another batch of 10 that hatched August 5 & 6. Should’ve been 11, but I accidentally smushed a tiny one that I didn’t notice until too late. :-( There were 2 eggs, but one seems to have fizzled away without yielding a caterpillar.


At home, the batch of 7 that hatched August 3 & 4.

I have another batch of 10 that hatched August 5 & 6. Should’ve been 11, but I accidentally smushed a tiny one that I didn’t notice until too late. :-( There were 2 eggs, but one seems to have fizzled away without yielding a caterpillar.
205qebo
The community garden... I’ve been negligent in recent weeks, distracted by other stuff. I had been going over there nearly every evening to keep things under control, and then I slacked off and the weeds took over and became overwhelming. I’ve been harvesting on Sunday evenings for the food bank, but haven’t really assessed what’s ready and what’s not yet and what’s beyond hope. This week I got back to it, dealing with part of a plot each evening. The corn/bean/squash plot is nearing the end of its lifespan. I’ve harvested beans and some squash, will get rest of the squash this weekend. The white pattypan squash grew nicely and is all gone, the yellow and green not so much; dunno what the difference would be. I’d forgotten about the spaghetti squash, but here it is, looks pretty good. The surrounding debris represents the plot in general; it’s a tangle of chewed and decaying leaves and bugs.






207Lyndatrue
>205 qebo: I am very grateful that you posted that. It made me feel slightly better about the state of my yard (and my garden beds). I just wish I could give you all some string beans. I'm going to have to give up and can some, and then pull some of the plants up. I'm picking about 10 pounds or so every other day (I'm guessing on the weight, but you can see them here).
http://www.librarything.com/topic/188943#5234203
Your garden looks lovely to me (since it's one place that *I* don't have to weed). Are those small pumpkins the sugar variety?
http://www.librarything.com/topic/188943#5234203
Your garden looks lovely to me (since it's one place that *I* don't have to weed). Are those small pumpkins the sugar variety?
208CassieBash
>204 qebo: I'm right there with you on that "insufficient" thing--I collected several today and one big one was sitting on top of a leaf on a plant I pass by every day. I think everyone who raises caterpillars in any quantity has accidentally squished some. I've also had a few eggs fizzle on me but my successes have more than made up for the few deaths.
209qebo
>207 Lyndatrue: New England sugar pie pumpkin, sez the label.
>208 CassieBash: Yeah, still beats the odds of nature.
>208 CassieBash: Yeah, still beats the odds of nature.
212jjmcgaffey
Wow, 9 spaghetti squash! Is that for the food bank? Hope so, or you're going to be STUFFED with squash.
213qebo
>212 jjmcgaffey: Yeah, I'll keep one for me and the rest go to the food bank. I didn't realize I had so many until I cleared the debris.
214qebo
I found three more monarch eggs while foraging for milkweed leaves this morning. I'm not actively looking.
215CassieBash
>214 qebo: Thanks to the mosquitoes, that's how my monarch larvae and eggs are coming to me, too. Pure chance has been how I've found most of my cats this year, rather than forays. I miss the forays....
216qebo
Yesterday evening I picked most of the ripe tomatoes and passed them along to the food bank. I donated several spaghetti squash too. Also at the community garden was a woman who enjoys cooking for her extended family, and she was happy to take any spare spaghetti squash and pumpkins.
The caterpillars are growing, but that's about it for excitement around here.
Well, there is excitement but I dunno how much I want to jinx it by reporting here... I'm in the process of buying a house with a much larger yard. Stay tuned for details, but no photos until settlement in mid September.
The caterpillars are growing, but that's about it for excitement around here.
Well, there is excitement but I dunno how much I want to jinx it by reporting here... I'm in the process of buying a house with a much larger yard. Stay tuned for details, but no photos until settlement in mid September.
217ronincats
I haven't been keeping a separate garden thread, Katherine, but I just posted pictures of an oriole nest under a banana leaf in my yard and a black phoebe. I've had anise swallowtails flitting through the yard, probably mating, but haven't managed a picture yet.
218qebo
The 4 largest monarch caterpillars, which I separated into a mesh container a couple days ago, nearly ran out of food overnight though I'd replenished shortly before dark. They were clinging to stems and strands. They're only 8 days old and they're huge. I'm hoping for Js soon...
220fuzzi
>217 ronincats: where did you post your pics? :)
221qebo
>219 fuzzi: Yup, less than a mile from where I am. I'll be overlapping for awhile, hope to be completely out of the current house before spring.
222qebo
One of the monarch caterpillars has migrated to the top of the container, thank goodness, so presumably its three agemates are imminent. They've been eating voraciously, and I need to preserve enough milkweed for the next batch.
One of the swallowtails (female) eclosed today, so only one chrysalis remains.
One of the swallowtails (female) eclosed today, so only one chrysalis remains.
223ronincats
>220 fuzzi:, .217 Oops, I posted them in my regular book thread. Sorry.
224CassieBash
>221 qebo: That's not a bad move, though--less than a mile. Lots more garden space options is good, too! (Make sure you collect some milkweed seed to take with you, though!) :)
225qebo
>224 CassieBash: Yeah, I'll be collecting all sorts of seeds this fall.
226qebo
Assessed the monarchs this evening. 4 that hatched August 3 are constructing silk pads. 3 that hatched August 4 are in the same container still eating. 10 that hatched August 5 & 6 now seem to be 9; one hasn't been growing in sync with the others, glaringly obvious in recent days, and today wasn't clinging to its leaf so I'm pretty sure dead or nearly so though I'm letting it be for now just in case. 10 eggs hatched yesterday or today. 6 eggs remain. I've demolished a couple of volunteer swamp milkweed plants for feeding, now raiding the volunteer common milkweed because the leaves are large and the caterpillars seem happy enough with them.
228qebo
1 more monarch hatched overnight so I put it in the bin with yesterday's babies, and the presumed dead is definitely dead. So that's 4 Js, 3 + 9 + 11 = 23 caterpillars, 5 eggs.
229qebo
And all the synchronized Js are now synchronized chrysalides, converted between 8:30 and 10:00 am.
233qebo
I’ve been foraging morning and evening to feed the monarch caterpillars, and the next batch of 9 is about to enter the voracious stage. So I moved them to the community garden, one per plant, protected by the mesh sleeves I made last year. Uses less milkweed (because there’s no waste of wilted leaves), and is surely healthier than crowding into containers.
235qebo
Monarch status: 4 chrysalides, 3 Js, 9 caterpillars at the community garden, 14 caterpillars at home, 5 eggs. The increased total is because I happened upon 1 tiny caterpillar and 2 eggs all on the same plant while foraging for leaves this morning. I do not dare check other plants.
236fuzzi
>231 qebo: ooh! Ooh! Pretty!!
>232 qebo: one of my parsley plants was stripped over the last couple of days...no sign of the culprit...
>233 qebo: interesting idea. No one bothers the mesh?
>232 qebo: one of my parsley plants was stripped over the last couple of days...no sign of the culprit...
>233 qebo: interesting idea. No one bothers the mesh?
237qebo
I was away for the day, fortunately returned home before dark or I wouldn't've noticed until tomorrow, because look who decided to emerge in my absence. These are the three tobacco hornworms that had already burrowed by the time I got them (>164 qebo:) on July 22.



The fourth was a few days behind, and is still mostly in the ground.




The fourth was a few days behind, and is still mostly in the ground.

238qebo
Checked the caterpillars at the community garden. Nobody has J'd yet, but several seem to be searching for locations. Everybody at home in containers is accounted for. One more egg hatched.
239qebo
Watched a monarch in my yard this afternoon. Considering how many times she landed on milkweed leaves, I bet I could find dozens of eggs if I tried. Which at the moment I don't wish to. Maybe when the community garden batch has become chrysalides and I can move another batch of caterpillars over there.
240qebo
At the community garden this evening, 1 chrysalis (which is awfully speedy considering it wasn't even J at noon) and 4 Js and 4 perhaps a day behind.
241qebo
I had one tobacco hornworm per pot, four pots in a mesh container on the back porch. After the 3 moths emerged on Saturday, I opened the mesh to let them out, left it open overnight because they hadn't all gone by dark, and forgot to close it yesterday. This morning, the remaining flower pot with the partially burrowed pupa was tipped over with some dirt spilled out. I didn't see the pupa so I poured out the dirt, and it is definitely gone.
242qebo
Collected 8 chrysalides from the community garden this evening, leaving 1 J. Put sleeves around 3 volunteer caterpillars.
245qebo
I transferred 9 caterpillars to the community garden this evening. These were from the bin of 11; the other 2 were molting so I'll keep them until the next trip. I found 1 more volunteer. The J of yesterday was a chrystalis.
Monarch status: 7 + 9 = 16 chrysalides, 9 + 2 + 5 + 4 = 20 caterpillars, 5 eggs.
Monarch status: 7 + 9 = 16 chrysalides, 9 + 2 + 5 + 4 = 20 caterpillars, 5 eggs.
249qebo
2 male, 1 female, all tagged, all eager to get going, flew high as soon as I let them out of the container, nobody cooperated for a photo. May be too soon for migration, but MonarchWatch sez to start tagging in late August: http://monarchwatch.org/tagmig/tag.htm .
250qebo
The 2 caterpillars that I didn't transfer to the community garden in >245 qebo: have migrated to the top of the container. I'll see what's up at the community garden this evening. I checked the food supply yesterday during a brief lull in the rain, but didn't actually look for the caterpillars inside the sleeves.
251qebo
The 2 caterpillars of >250 qebo: are now a chrysalis and a J. Nothing much seemed to be happening at the community garden yesterday when I checked the mesh sleeves, but several caterpillars should be on about the same schedule (perhaps delayed by Thursday's rain) so I'll check again this evening. 4 in a container with the 3 butterflies of yesterday will be butterflies today. 5 in another container are growing appropriately. I'd given up on a couple of the eggs, was wondering about the others, but one hatched last night. So that begins a new generation, and maybe I'll collect more eggs from the yard this weekend.
252qebo
4 butterflies emerged as expected, and are all hanging in the container while their wings dry.
257qebo
Butterfly #15
Question Mark (Polygonia interrogationis)
me
August 22
Watched a butterfly laying eggs on the hops, couldn’t tell whether it was comma or question mark and didn’t have a camera. So I went into the house for a camera and returned, and the butterfly decided to take a break on me before it resumed activity. I had trouble getting it usefully oriented, but succeeded well enough to identify it.

Question Mark (Polygonia interrogationis)
me
August 22
Watched a butterfly laying eggs on the hops, couldn’t tell whether it was comma or question mark and didn’t have a camera. So I went into the house for a camera and returned, and the butterfly decided to take a break on me before it resumed activity. I had trouble getting it usefully oriented, but succeeded well enough to identify it.

259qebo
At the community garden this evening in the sleeves, 1 J, 6 maybe a day or so away, 2 a few days behind, 4 missing but I didn't look carefully for the smaller ones. Also 7 wild caterpillars ranging from 1/2" - 2" that I let be.
260fuzzi
Love the photos!
It's nice to get a clear picture, but so difficult. However, I've ID'd several butterflies through blurry photos. Recently I photographed a butterfly and identified it as a Hackberry Emperor, using two unclear pictures.
It's nice to get a clear picture, but so difficult. However, I've ID'd several butterflies through blurry photos. Recently I photographed a butterfly and identified it as a Hackberry Emperor, using two unclear pictures.
261qebo
Nothing exciting at the community garden this evening. The J is now a chrysalis. One of the large caterpillars is now a J.
266qebo
This evening at the community garden... I retrieved 3 Cs. I left 3 Js and 1 large caterpillar that should be imminent. I removed one sleeve where I haven't seen evidence of activity in a couple of days, and... nothing. I found 2 dead caterpillars: 1 midsize that had seemed to be molting a day or so ago, and 1 large that I had expected to be imminent. 2 caterpillars are unaccounted for. I'm worried about the dead caterpillars; one was dried up, and one was black. All of the sleeves that I removed went immediately into a bucket of bleach solution in the basement when I returned home.
3 caterpillars at home migrated to the top of the container today and I can see silk buttons in progress. The other 2 in the same container are a bit younger. I have 1 small caterpillar that hatched a couple days ago, 1 fairly fresh egg, and a few eggs that don't seem to be doing anything. In a cursory check of one milkweed plant that I happened to be standing next to this afternoon, I found 4 eggs, which I let be; maybe I'll collect more, but not yet.
3 caterpillars at home migrated to the top of the container today and I can see silk buttons in progress. The other 2 in the same container are a bit younger. I have 1 small caterpillar that hatched a couple days ago, 1 fairly fresh egg, and a few eggs that don't seem to be doing anything. In a cursory check of one milkweed plant that I happened to be standing next to this afternoon, I found 4 eggs, which I let be; maybe I'll collect more, but not yet.
267fuzzi
>262 qebo: those look like green Christmas lights...
268qebo
>267 fuzzi: Hmm, interesting idea...
269qebo
>262 qebo: Just in time. 4 butterflies eclosed this morning and are hanging out to dry. As hoped, the setup isn't pretty but it works.
270qebo
The 3 Js and 1 caterpillar of >266 qebo: were 3 Cs and 1 J this evening, all appearing normal. I'll bring them home tomorrow. I'm not sure how many more caterpillars I can put there because the milkweed is deteriorating, so I should consider this before I collect more eggs.
273qebo
This morning at the community garden, a group of college freshman spent a few hours rearranging the compost, supervised by a gardener with compost expertise. (After several years of random deposits, we may now have a coherent system!) Not enough tools to go around, so the students were sent in small batches to the milkweed for a monarch show and tell. The students were especially interested in the J, which had cooperated by not becoming a chrysalis overnight.
At home, another caterpillar is preparing its silk pad, and another egg hatched.
At home, another caterpillar is preparing its silk pad, and another egg hatched.
274qebo
2 more monarch butterflies tagged and released today. So that's now all 9 that I'd transferred to the community garden in >233 qebo: and retrieved in >243 qebo:.
275qebo
3 chrysalides retrieved from the community garden. The 4th chrysalis was the J of yesterday. I showed it to a gardener who was walking around taking photographs, then asked whether she wanted to adopt it and photograph the butterfly too. So it has gone to her front porch.
276qebo
Only 2 caterpillars remain, in a container at home, so I collected a bunch of eggs from the yard today.
277qebo
What with butterflies flying away, caterpillars and chrysalides traipsing to and from the community garden, eggs showing up by accident, I'd kinda lost the overview. But now everybody is at home, and I've disposed of a few eggs that had turned dark and done nothing further in over a week. Monarch status: 16 butterflies tagged and released, 13 chrysalides, 3 caterpillars, 13 eggs.
281ronincats
Saw this on my deck step riser yesterday--looked up my most common butterfly, the Gulf Fritillary or Passion butterfly, which lays eggs on my passion flower vines and sure enough, that's what it is.

Haven't seen any of my monarchs return from this spring's hatchings, but do have two or three anise swallowtails flitting around the grapefruit, lemon and fig trees every day, as opposed to only one in previous years. They never land so I haven't gotten a photo, but here's one from the net.

I think we pretty much picked the last of the tomatoes today--the vines are looking pretty kaput and I don't see any new ones setting on. About time to prep for the winter garden now.
And I found this local resource up in North County--looks like a place that I should visit!
https://www.facebook.com/butterflyfarms.org/timeline

Haven't seen any of my monarchs return from this spring's hatchings, but do have two or three anise swallowtails flitting around the grapefruit, lemon and fig trees every day, as opposed to only one in previous years. They never land so I haven't gotten a photo, but here's one from the net.

I think we pretty much picked the last of the tomatoes today--the vines are looking pretty kaput and I don't see any new ones setting on. About time to prep for the winter garden now.
And I found this local resource up in North County--looks like a place that I should visit!
https://www.facebook.com/butterflyfarms.org/timeline
282qebo
>28 qebo: Fritillary was my immediate thought before I read the text; looks similar to the variegated fritillary. Which I saw laying eggs on my violets, but I haven't found any caterpillars.
283qebo
Nobody hatched overnight, and somehow I acquired 3 more eggs while foraging for my 3 caterpillars this morning.
284qebo
I was weeding in the back yard this morning when a large swallowtail caterpillar ambled by... Alas no camera, and by the time I got it and returned, the caterpillar had disappeared into the jungle.
285fuzzi
>284 qebo: that's why I try to take my camera with me, everywhere. One never knows...
286qebo
>285 fuzzi: Yeah, me too, but I'd shuffled things around to do laundry.
289qebo
I wasn't expecting butterflies just yet, but one emerged this morning, I think from >266 qebo: but my reporting has been sketchy.
This topic was continued by qebo’s 2015 garden (3).
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