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1RidgewayGirl
Noir and hardboiled are closely related, featuring gritty, dark settings, worlds full of corruption and crime. The darker side of human nature is on full display and the books are tough and unsentimental in tone.
The key difference between the two is that the protagonist in a hardboiled crime novel is a detective, while in noir, the protagonist is a victim, a suspect, or a perpetrator.
Hardboiled is the genre that originated in the US and is characterized by taking place in gritty, urban settings, with rapid-fire dialog and plenty of sex and violence. Classic hard-boiled novels include:
The genre continues to be popular and authors have continued to write about fast-talking, antihero detectives operating within a corrupt system.
Noir is a genre that originated with film noir, and moved from the movies into the literary world. In noir, the protagonist is someone either caught in a corrupt system, using a corrupt system for their own ends, or some combination of the two. Classic noir includes:
Modern noir is sometimes set in the past, but often not. It can be twisted in interesting ways. Dozens of sub-genres have sprung up, among them Tartan Noir, Appalachian Noir, Scandi Noir and Mediterranean Noir. Akashic Press has made a name for itself publishing books of noir short stories written by local authors of different cities and locales.
Let us all know what you plan to read, what you are reading, what you've read and any suggestions for books you've loved. And don't forget to update the wiki!
2thornton37814
The hold I placed on The Maltese Falcon just became available. It's the one I'll read. However, if I'd realized Mary Roberts Rinehart might be considered noir, I might have tried one of hers, although I know I've read the one you pictured.
3DeltaQueen50
I love this genre! I am planning on reading A Bullet for Cinderella by John D. MacDonald and Jealous Woman by James M. Cain.
4RidgewayGirl
Lori, it's a surprisingly wide genre. I found it interesting that hardboiled was developed, in part, as a reaction to the traditional British mysteries of manor homes and well-heeled crime solvers.
Judy, it's my favorite, too. I have the new Megan Abbott, as well as a few of the classics, in mind for this CAT.
Judy, it's my favorite, too. I have the new Megan Abbott, as well as a few of the classics, in mind for this CAT.
5beebeereads
Tangerine has been on my list for awhile. I was holding off for the Orange challenge, but since you indicate it qualifies for Noir, I'll try to move it up to September. Also intrigued by your mention of Megan Abbott. I have been wanting to read You Will Know Me. What is the difference between Noir and Thriller?
6christina_reads
This isn't my favorite mystery subgenre, but I have read and enjoyed some noir/hardboiled books in the past, such as Dashiell Hammett's The Thin Man, Richard Stark's The Hunter, and Vera Caspary's Laura. For this CAT, I plan to read The Big Sleep by Raymond Chandler -- I've already got my copy from the library!
7dudes22
Not being that familiar with the kind of mystery, I would like to know - are all of Denise Mina's series ok to read for this Cat?
ETA: I see the tag "tartan noir" for book Still Midnight which is already in my TBR pile.
ETA: I see the tag "tartan noir" for book Still Midnight which is already in my TBR pile.
8RidgewayGirl
>5 beebeereads: There's a lot of overlap between mystery genres. I suspect that the only mystery novels that absolutely can't be noir/hardboiled are cozies. The genre has its tropes; the femme fatale and the loner detective who drinks too much, but it's more about an atmosphere of darkness and of corruption under the surface. While Abbott's earlier novels are obvious noir, her more recent books bring that same foreboding atmosphere to a modern suburban setting.
>7 dudes22: Yes, Denise Mina is always listed whenever someone puts together any list of Tartan Noir. Her Glasgow is certainly gritty and urban!
>7 dudes22: Yes, Denise Mina is always listed whenever someone puts together any list of Tartan Noir. Her Glasgow is certainly gritty and urban!
9lsh63
This is my favorite genre as well, and there are a few I want to get to:
The Last Good Kiss
Thieves Like Us
The Far Side of the Dollar
The Last Good Kiss
Thieves Like Us
The Far Side of the Dollar
10beebeereads
>8 RidgewayGirl: Thank you for the further explanations! I am working on understanding all the various mystery sub-genres. Yes, indeed, there is much overlap, but doing this CAT has helped me sort some of it out.
12LibraryCin
A few options for me (based on tags, so hopefully they really do fit!):
Finders Keepers / Stephen King
Little Girl Lost / Richard Aleas
You have Killed Me / Jamie S. Rich
Suspect / Robert Crais
Hmmm, touchstones aren't working. Nor is searching. Can't read my writing and can't recall the author of one or mine listed (may even have the title off a bit), but I'll double check if I decide on that one.
Finders Keepers / Stephen King
Little Girl Lost / Richard Aleas
You have Killed Me / Jamie S. Rich
Suspect / Robert Crais
Hmmm, touchstones aren't working. Nor is searching. Can't read my writing and can't recall the author of one or mine listed (may even have the title off a bit), but I'll double check if I decide on that one.
13Familyhistorian
Thanks for the succinct explanation for the difference between hardboiled and noir. I have often wondered what the difference is. I have a lot of hard boiled books on the shelf and will start with The Postman Always Rings Twice.
14dudes22
>12 LibraryCin: - The next one in the Elvis Cole series by Robert Crais Indigo Slam also has a "hard-boiled" tag so I guess I could read that too.
15LadyoftheLodge
I chose Too Many Cooks by Rex Stout.
16RidgewayGirl
>13 Familyhistorian: I was never clear on the difference, either, so I thought I should find out before I wrote the introductory post!
17streamsong
So, if I'm understanding this, noir doesn't have to be classic mystery? I'm reading Lagos Noir from Akashic as an LTER book right now, and have another Akashic, Montana Noir on Planet TBR.
Sweet - although I did also request The Big Sleep from the library.
I also picked up a copy of The Devil All the Time by Donald Ray Pollock at a book fair where he spoke last year, but that one sounds too dark for me right now.
Sweet - although I did also request The Big Sleep from the library.
I also picked up a copy of The Devil All the Time by Donald Ray Pollock at a book fair where he spoke last year, but that one sounds too dark for me right now.
18RidgewayGirl
>17 streamsong: The Devil All the Time is super dark. It's a great example of Appalachian Noir, but it is unrelentingly bleak and violent.
19streamsong
>18 RidgewayGirl: Thanks, Kay. I picked it up to have him sign since it was his best known, but after reading reviews that mentioned animal sacrifice, I don't think I'll ever read it. It might need to find a new home.
20RidgewayGirl
>19 streamsong: I'm not sure there's a lighter Pollock. The Heavenly Table is a historical novel with a few moments of grace and a very dark humor running through it, but he really is an author who pushes all the limits. I really love his work, but I do recognize how he is not for everyone. How was he in person?
21VivienneR
I plan on reading A Conspiracy of Faith by Jussi Adler-Olsen. If it is anything like the first two in the series it will fit the noir genre.
22leslie.98
I plan to continue my rereading of Raymond Chandler's Philip Marlowe series with The Lady in the Lake.
23whitewavedarling
I'm planning on reading both Hush Money by Robert B. Parker and Finders Keepers by Stephen King. I've also got Lagos Noir waiting, so I'll try to fit that in if I have time...
24thornton37814
I finished The Maltese Falcon by Dashiell Hammett.
25Familyhistorian
>24 thornton37814: I have The Maltese Falcon on my shelves, Lori. What did you think of it?
26streamsong
>20 RidgewayGirl: Donald Ray Pollock was an interesting speaker. When I had him sign my book, he said something to the effect of "This is really dark. Are you sure you want to give it a try?" Guess I looked too little-old-lady-ish. :)
27thornton37814
>25 Familyhistorian: It was okay, but I don't really like the genre. I'd seen the movie though.
28MissWatson
I finished Woman in the dark, the penultimate book Dashiell Hammett published. A bit too short, there was no time to get involved.
29VivienneR
After a couple of false starts with other books, I'm now enjoying The Wycherly Woman by Ross Macdonald.
30DeltaQueen50
Unfortunately, I found Jealous Woman by James M. Cain to be a weak rehash of his Double Indemnity and I would recommend that readers forget this one in favour of the original.
31LibraryCin
Little Girl Lost / Richard Aleas
4 stars
John Blake is in his late 20s and is a private investigator. When he sees in the news that his high school girlfriend, now a stripper, has been murdered, he takes it upon himself to find out what happened. Not just the murder, but how did the girl he once knew, who left to go to school to become an eye doctor (optometrist or ophthalmologist, he couldn’t remember), end up a murdered stripper ten years later?
I really liked this one. There was a personal element to it, so that might be why I liked this more than most “noir” mysteries that I’ve read. But also, I liked John and I liked one of the other characters who was helping him. It crossed my mind at one point (in part) what might have happened, but I had good reason to doubt that, so it only briefly floated through my mind. So, the end wasn’t a complete surprise, though it did have to be explained how that could even be (and it was explained). There is another book in the series, but only one more, so I’m not sure if there will be more or not, but I will definitely read the 2nd one.
4 stars
John Blake is in his late 20s and is a private investigator. When he sees in the news that his high school girlfriend, now a stripper, has been murdered, he takes it upon himself to find out what happened. Not just the murder, but how did the girl he once knew, who left to go to school to become an eye doctor (optometrist or ophthalmologist, he couldn’t remember), end up a murdered stripper ten years later?
I really liked this one. There was a personal element to it, so that might be why I liked this more than most “noir” mysteries that I’ve read. But also, I liked John and I liked one of the other characters who was helping him. It crossed my mind at one point (in part) what might have happened, but I had good reason to doubt that, so it only briefly floated through my mind. So, the end wasn’t a complete surprise, though it did have to be explained how that could even be (and it was explained). There is another book in the series, but only one more, so I’m not sure if there will be more or not, but I will definitely read the 2nd one.
33VivienneR
>32 AHS-Wolfy: Dave, I love Ken Bruen and got The Dramatist from the library to read for this category. I can't remember if I've read it before but it doesn't matter, I'll still enjoy it.
Just finished The Wycherly Woman by Ross Macdonald, a Lew Archer mystery that I enjoyed. It was first published in 1961, which shows in the dated language and attitudes.
Just finished The Wycherly Woman by Ross Macdonald, a Lew Archer mystery that I enjoyed. It was first published in 1961, which shows in the dated language and attitudes.
34AHS-Wolfy
>33 VivienneR: Be warned that there is an especially brutal ending to The Dramatist. Most of the books in that series don't tend t treat the characters kindly but that one was really hard to take.
35streamsong
I finished Lagos Noir, an LTER book. I've read a few of the noir series from Akashic books. I thought this one was by far the best. Not as slimy creepy as the last one I read by far - but still that note of darkness in each of these well written short stories.
I do love the way the Akashic books contribute to my around the world reading challenge. A memorable portrait of the city for sure!
I do love the way the Akashic books contribute to my around the world reading challenge. A memorable portrait of the city for sure!
36VivienneR
>34 AHS-Wolfy: Thanks for the warning, Dave. I'll keep it in mind.
37leslie.98
>33 VivienneR: Oh, thanks for the reminder of the Lew Archer series! I have read all the ones I own but I can get the audiobook of The Barbarous Coast through Hoopla (and that fits this month's AlphaKIT too).
38christina_reads
I'm reading The Big Sleep and enjoying it more than I thought I would! A quote describing a femme fatale: "She walked with a certain something I hadn't often seen in bookstores."
39streamsong
>39 streamsong: Great quote, Christina! I have that one home from the library, too, and it will be my next one up. Several non-mysteries to finish before starting it.
40VivienneR
>34 AHS-Wolfy: Dave, I thought the "brutal" ending would be Jack taking a beating and thought there'd be nothing new in that. I was wrong on both counts. And it truly was brutal. A heartbreaker. Outstanding though, I gave it 4.5 stars. I love the way Ken Bruen writes.
42AHS-Wolfy
>40 VivienneR: Vivienne, when I first read that entry in the series I had planned on going straight on to the next one but had to take a break for a while before I went back to it. Bruen doesn't tend to treat the characters closest to Jack very nicely.
43thornton37814
I finished One Corpse Too Many by Ellis Peters.
44leslie.98
I have finished The Barbarous Coast - Lew Archer really is a good successor to Chandler's Philip Marlowe! I didn't think that this one was the best in the series but it was quite good & Grover Gardner does an excellent narration.
45MissWatson
The October thread is up: http://www.librarything.com/topic/296231#6578899
46whitewavedarling
Finished Finders Keepers--I enjoyed it more than the first in the series, and it's actually left me really looking forward to the next in the series. I'm still hoping to fit in Hush Money by Robert Parker, too, but it's become a slow reading month for me, so we'll see what happens...
47RidgewayGirl
I've started In a Lonely Place by Dorothy B. Hughes as that is what jumped out at me from the tbr shelf.
48DeltaQueen50
I have completed A Bullet for Cinderella by John D. MacDonald. This 1955 hard-boiled crime thriller was a very satisfying read.
49leslie.98
>48 DeltaQueen50: Ooh, that sounds good to me!
I finished my reread of The Lady in the Lake by Raymond Chandler. I didn't like this 4th entry in the Philip Marlowe series as much as the first or the last book but it is still a good example of the better type of hard-boiled P.I. book. 3*
I finished my reread of The Lady in the Lake by Raymond Chandler. I didn't like this 4th entry in the Philip Marlowe series as much as the first or the last book but it is still a good example of the better type of hard-boiled P.I. book. 3*
50Familyhistorian
What better way to meet the challenge than to read a classic of the genre? I was very impressed by The Postman Always Rings Twice. Cain doesn't let up on the darkness he heaps on his characters from the beginning to the end of the book.
51MissWatson
I finished another one, Point Blank by Richard Stark. I found the premise, Lynn's betrayal of her husband, unconvincing. But the rest is as hardboiled as they come.
52lsh63
I finished The Far Side of the Dollar, which was very good as usual. I haven't read all of the Lew Archer series, but what I have read so far I've enjoyed.
53staci426
I had decided to read Mildred Pierce by James M. Cain for this month's challenge. It's got tags for mystery, noir, hard-boiled and crime. I just finished it, and it is none of these things. It was a great story about a single mother struggling to raise her daughters in the 30s/40s, but there's no mystery here. I believe there was a murder in the movie adaptation, so maybe that's why the incorrect tags.
I've also been slowly working on a short story collection, The Best American Noir of the Century edited by James Ellroy. I've only finished 4 our of the 40 or so stories. So far, they've been pretty good.
I've also been slowly working on a short story collection, The Best American Noir of the Century edited by James Ellroy. I've only finished 4 our of the 40 or so stories. So far, they've been pretty good.
54LibraryCin
>53 staci426: I also use tags to choose what I'll read. I hate when things are so mistagged that way!
55Robertgreaves
COMPLETED Straight Up by James Lear, the second in his hardboiled series. My review:
Members of a squad of marines who were sent on a special mission in Iraq are now being murdered or disappearing, just as their commander lands a White House job. Coincidence? Dan Stagg, gym manager and occasional private investigator, thinks not and decides to look into it, especially as he was one of the squad.
As usual, the plot is merely a device for Dan to have lots of sex. Fine if you like that sort of thing, and I do. Avoid if you don't.
Members of a squad of marines who were sent on a special mission in Iraq are now being murdered or disappearing, just as their commander lands a White House job. Coincidence? Dan Stagg, gym manager and occasional private investigator, thinks not and decides to look into it, especially as he was one of the squad.
As usual, the plot is merely a device for Dan to have lots of sex. Fine if you like that sort of thing, and I do. Avoid if you don't.
56lkernagh
I enjoyed my first experience with reading a Dashiell Hammett novel! I read The Thin Man. Well written but for me, I was more enthralled with the setting, the characters, their interactions and the overall casual social nuances of the story than with the actual mystery.
57dudes22
I'm closing in on finishing Still Midnight by Denise Mina which is certainly a dark mystery. First in the Alex Morrow series, I'm finding I vacillate between liking her and not liking her. I know there are fans of this series here so I'll try at least one more before I decide whether to continue the series or not.
58RidgewayGirl
>56 lkernagh: Lori, that was my reaction to In a Lonely Place. It was excellent, but the parts I liked best were just the every day stuff of life in 1948.
>57 dudes22: Betty, Still Midnight is the weakest in the series. Morrow changes as the series goes on and she is forced to address some issues.
>57 dudes22: Betty, Still Midnight is the weakest in the series. Morrow changes as the series goes on and she is forced to address some issues.
59dudes22
>58 RidgewayGirl: - oh - good to know. ETA: I'm glad you said it's the weakest. I was finding that it just doesn't grab me. I have no problem putting it down. I know that sometimes it's because the author is setting up the characters and place, but I don't feel that's it in this case. What ever - you've given me a reason to continue.
60Familyhistorian
>56 lkernagh: And the amount they drink, Lori. It seems like that is what they spend most of their time doing!
61lkernagh
>60 Familyhistorian: - LOL! The characters do drink a LOT. ;-)
63mathgirl40
I started The Body on Mount Royal by David Montrose in September and am still working on it. The cover screams "hard boiled mystery"! This detective drinks an awful lot, too.