How you use Talk?

You may or may not be aware, but there are two ways to enter a Topic in Talk:

UPDATED IMAGE



Questions for you:

1. Were you aware of both ways?
2. Which way(s) do you use?
3. Can we have the whole line just take you to the first unread message? See argument below.

Our sense is that it's confusing to have to click the second area to get to where you almost certainly want to go—the first message you haven't read. At least some people don't understand the functionality. Simpler is better.

We'd have looked just at stats, but even some employees were unaware of the second area, so we can't tell if the stats reflect intention or what.

I expect some members to push back agains the "loss" of any functionality, but is it really better to retain this confusing distinction? Really?

When I click on the title I get taken to the start of the topic. This is usually not where I want to be.

I usually use unread messages because that is where I want to go to.

I use the "first unread message" (assuming there are any), unless it's a topic that I have not previously read. In that case, I'll click on the subject line to start reading from the beginning.

>3 lilithcat:

Right. So if it just went to the first unread that would be fine, right? (Because it would take you to the start.)

>2 MarthaJeanne: Same here.

I use #2. After a pause, it takes me to the last read message.

I use #2 - take me to first unread message.

Correction to the image above:

#1 should read:
1. Clicking takes you to the start of the topic.

>6 krazy4katz: It always stays at the beginning of the thread for me. Is this maybe a browser related issue?

>8 conceptDawg: Ahh! That makes more sense! I'll occasionally click on the topic if it's a new to me thread, but I usually just click on the posts since that will always take me where I want to go.

I've updated the image. But now >6 krazy4katz: is confusing!

I was not aware of 2. I'd go to the 'unread' once I open the page. (But 1 doesn't take you to the end, but rather to the beginning of the topic).

Yes to question No 3

>4 timspalding:

Yes, going to first unread is what I want, it doesn't really matter how I get there. Using the title is just habit.

1. Yes
2. The second
3. Yes

Yes, I've been aware of both ways.

I mostly click on the number of unread but also click on the topic. Sometimes I'm looking for previously read-- or marked as read-- messages. When my device is slower than its usual, clicking into the topic and scrolling down is faster than waiting for the redirect to the unread messages linked in #2.

Can we have the whole line just take you to the first unread message?

Could you? I guess so. I can't quite figure out at the moment how taking away the full topic link would impact search results. (Nope, still can't.)

>1 timspalding:

I didn't know that there were two ways. I've always clicked on #1, which was a little annoying, since I'd then have to click to go to the first unread message.

I fully endorse getting rid of #1 and just going to the first unread message.

I always use #2, clicking to go to the first unread message. For that reason, I'd be happy to have a click anywhere in the line take you to the first unread.

I'd also be fine if a click anywhere in the line took me to the start of the thread, where I could then click the "Go to first unread" button. It would be a little slower, but not enough to make it worth causing serious inconvenience if there are a lot of people who always do it the other way around.

Currently, we have to click on the topic (option #1) when there are no unread messages, because the second option doesn't have a link. What would happen if the line is only linked to the first unread message instead of the full post?

Yes, I was aware of both ways. Found #2 by accident, though. Since i found it, I always use #2 and keep my talk list limited to "my groups" and sorted by unread/messages.

I'd love to have a default view that reverts to my preferred sort, even if I re-sort for some reason. Current operation is that if I re-sort it stays that way until I sort it again back to how I like it, but sometimes I just want another view to find something or browse the groups I'm not part of.

I tend to go to unread first, but I am aware that people do edit their opening posts, particularly where they have set themselves goals or complied lists to work on.

I use first unread when I’m following an active conversation. I use the other option if I am there for other purposes - a re-read or a search. I’d be okay with your suggestion if you added a go to the top of the page button at the bottom.

No, I take that back. I do want that unread column, so that I can keep track of where I’ve been. I quit visiting another chat location because it lacked that marker and it made my head hurt trying to keep track of threads I’m following.

>21 2wonderY: There's already a 'go to the top' button by every post. Blue arrow on the right.

I deliberately use both, but not because I want to go to the top of the page. I usually use the unread messages link, but I'll click the title when I want one to turn purple so it's easier to see at a glance later. The color change is very useful (as it is now the unread messages link doesn't show it's been visited). And yes, as someone will bring it up, I also use the stars. Not the same thing.

I *always* click on the unread messages, unless I want to go to a thread where I've read all the messages, and so clicking on the unread messages isn't an option. I would like it to be an option in that case!

Well, if you're taking a vote, I use #2 if it's available. If I have read an entire thread, then I use #1 to get back into the thread.

I was aware of both ways but I wouldn't mind if you made the title link go to the first unread. But please don't remove the number of unread column. When there is only one unread message and it's from someone that I block then I know I can skip that topic.

I'm aware of both ways and generally use #2 - take me to the first unread post (whether that is post #1 or post #n). I find method #1 annoying if I've accidentally clicked too soon - or I'm reading on a small screen and haven't hit the sweet spot.

That to me would be the main reason for disabling #1 and having click on the title take you to the first unread.

1. Were you aware of both ways? yes
2. Which way(s) do you use? both - I click on the subject for a new topic (it's a bigger target) and on the unread count for a topic I've already been reading.
3. Can we have the whole line just take you to the first unread message? yes - works for me. What would it do if there were no new unread messages? (Maybe first message?)

I usually use the second option because I want to see my unread messages but occasionally I click on the topic because I want the whole thread.

Like everyone else, I mostly use "first unread", unless I want to re-read posts for some reason.

In some ways, being able to go straight to the last post would be more useful than going to the first: on very active threads you often want to find out where the discussion is now before you start tracing back how it got there.

I was aware of the second one and probably use it sometimes? I'm just as likely to use #1 and then immediately autopilot to the "jump to first unread" link, I have no idea which I do more often.

I don't always want to jump to first unread, but usually those are re-reads of old threads that are marked all read, and those would send me to the top anyway, right? The other case would be a long thread that I didn't finish in one sitting, because up until recently I didn't know what the "mark as read to here" option did. If that is renamed/made more prominent, that use case goes away.

A "jump to top" option at the end of talk pages would be nice either way. (The "end" key at least in theory works for "jump to bottom.")

>31 melannen: The small blue arrow at the far right of each message's title bar takes you to the top of the page.

1. Yes
2. I try to use first unread if I recognise the topic, might use start if it looks like soome resurrected thread I want to reread for context.
3. Sure, I forget to use unread all the time and have to click again and I can always go back to the top if I'm confused.

I do find the link colour changes very useful.

I was not aware of the second option. (Or, perhaps I was aware at some point and then forgot!)

>32 rosalita: Oh, thanks! 10+ years and I failed to notice that at all (my brain reads the icon as "upload" and ignores it, I guess.)

I always click on the unread messages link, and I like being taken to the first unread message.

I would prefer it if the jump to unread link actually took me to the first unread post instead of the one before it. There are far too many cases where the message before is long and I have to scroll several pages down to find the unread message.

1. Yes
2. Both. Mainly #2, but if I want to revisit a thread with no unread messages, method #2 is unavailable, so I am forced to click on the title.
3. Sure, why not.

>9 amanda4242: I was wrong! I just corrected my message. Sorry!

1. Were you aware of both ways?
2. Which way(s) do you use?
3. Can we have the whole line just take you to the first unread message? See argument below.

My answers are below

1. Yes
2. I go to the bottom of option 2 and then work my up so I'm reading the messages in chronological order. Why? I do that with anything I read.
3. I don't care one way or the other. Just get me to the first unread msg as I have a very limited set of groups I look at.

1. Were you aware of both ways?
Yes.

2. Which way(s) do you use?
Option 2 always, if there are unread messages. I only use Option 1 for any thread I want to go back into that has no unread messages (such as when I'm adding a new post to my own reading journal), then I of course use Option 1 since there is no Option 2.

3. Can we have the whole line just take you to the first unread message? See argument below.
Yes, but as a couple other people have mentioned, I wouldn’t want the count column to be removed. I doubt that was the plan, but mentioning just in case. It’s nice to know how many unread messages there are before diving in. If I’m busy, I might save a thread with a lot of unread messages for later.

If it's up for debate, with the new functionality, I would prefer to be taken to the bottom post when clicking on a topic title with no unread messages. I rarely want to start back up at the top on a thread I've already read. I'm usually going into a previously-read thread to add a comment I didn't have time to add earlier when I read the thread, so I want to review the more recent posts that I'm replying to. But I don't really care that much, I know there are clickable links to jump to the top or bottom from wherever I am, and I hit Ctrl+Home or Ctrl+End as needed all over the place out of habit.

1. Yes.
2. Both. Mostly the "unread messages" option.
3. Yes.

I am aware of both ways to click on a message, and I mostly use the second option: to jump to unread messages.

I'm aware of and use both almost equally, maybe 60/40 heavier on the "unread" link.

And with one exception, clicking in the "unread" link takes you ti the first unread message, whether it be the first message in the previously untouched-by-me thread, or further down the chain if I'd been in there before.

However, there is no "unread" link if there are no new messages since I'd been there last. That is often the case with threads that I've starred and have since gone dormant. I still keep them starred for quick (tic) reference. I've got 5 screensful of starred topics, so "quick" is a misnomer.

Another consideration is that I rarely use html. I'm good with the basics, but on rare occasions I want to post a picture, so I have to consult any one of three topics that have this information, and most of it is consolidated in the first few messages. After that, it's folks asking how to do one odd thing or another and others responding with tips, and experimentation, discussions, and thank yous.

Inside the thread, it's a matter of clicking once to the to the (first unread) bottom, or conversely to the top. So it hardly matters.

In short, I grok what Tim & Co want to do, but I also see downsides worthy of consideration.
MrsHouseLibrary's motto was: Adapt or die. I sure do miss her.

Okay, the responses have been great. They reassure us a lot. We are indeed going to go with one link—a link that covers the whole line. This link will take you to the first unread message. If you haven't ready any messages, obviously it will just take you to the top.

>45 timspalding: And what will it do when you've already read all the messages in the topic? I vote that it takes you to the bottom on the assumption that you want to add a new post.

I almost always just use #2.

I really like knowing how many unread messages there are, though. If I'm short of time I'll just read the topics that don't have a whole lot of unread messages.

Sometimes I get behind and some topics have hundreds of unread messages. I save them until I have time to read them all. I didn't know about the option to "mark as read to here" until I read this thread, though. Looking forward to using that!

>46 jjwilson61: Good point. For a long thread, that can involve a lot of scrolling. The other alternative would be a 'Jump to bottom' link.

1. Yes, I was aware there were 2 ways.
2. I mostly just go straight to Unread.
3. One link, straight to Unread, would be fine.

4. I had a feeling at one stage there used to be a link to the Group the Topic was posted in embedded in the first part. Am I imagining things?

1. Were you aware of both ways? - Yes
2. Which way(s) do you use? - the second, almost always.
3. Can we have the whole line just take you to the first unread message? - Yes, only it doesn't actually do that, does it? It takes you to the message previous to the first unread, so it isn't doing what you've described it as. I think it ought to genuinely that you to the first unread message. I also agree, the numbr unread column should stay there, so that you know how busy the thread has been

1. I am aware of both ways
2. I almost invariably use the second way.
3. Yes.

>48 Maddz: There is a jump to bottom/unread link near the top of the thread.

>49 bernsad: Yes, I'm certain that at one time if you clicked on the portion of the line with the group name it took you to the group page.

1. Were you aware of both ways?
I admit I wasn't. I never noticed that clicking on the topic title started you at the top, because I always click on the unread messages. If there were no unread messages it would open at the top as expected, so there was no reason to click the title.

2. Which way(s) do you use?
I always click unread messages, even if it's a new thread, just from habit. I tend to open many topics at a time by right-clicking to open links in a new tab and I just go down the line. Sometimes I have enough threads open that my computer cries.

3. Can we have the whole line just take you to the first unread message?
I wouldn't notice the difference, but I do think that the link at the top to go to go down to the first unread message, and the quick jump to the top must remain because sometimes you need to refresh yourself with the original post. Also I agree with everyone above that I still like to know how many posts are considered unread.

>53 jjwilson61: Thank you, I haven't been able to stumble on it again and thought that I had imagined it.

1. I am aware of both ways
2. I almost invariably use the second way.
3. Yes

On ipad often still need to scroll down or up to top to click take me to first unread

To 3: Mostly I use the way via "unread/messages".

I would like to refer to my message: https://www.librarything.de/topic/324454#7272703.
I would be pleased if this would be implemented in any way.

I would like to reiterate the plea to make 'go to first unread' do exactly that, instead of going to last read as is now the case

>58 SandraArdnas: Strange, when I click on mine it always goes to "first unread", not "last read" like you mention...

1. Yes
2. The second
3. Yes

I'm probably weird, but I would like to have the oppertunity to mark even the first message as unread. (In a thread with x posts, there are x+1 places to put your "bookmark", but you can only use "Mark as read to here" on each message, so the first one can't be made unread.

Use case: New thread with only one message, but when I open it I can see that it is a wall of text and I'd like to read it some time later.

1. Yes
2. The second
3. Yes