Why I voted "no"? (tag separation/combination) #15

The "horror-fantasy-and-sci-fi" tag appears to be works that are each classified within Horror, Fantasy, and Sci-fi. The "Science Fiction/Horror/Fantasy" tag is for works that fall into at least one of the genres, which places different books at the top.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/horror-fantasy-and-sci-fi#combinations

"Christmas/Winter Holidays" includes wintertime books that aren't about Christmas. "Winter Holidays- Christmas" doesn't.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Christmas%252FWinter+Holidays#combinatio...

Being about kids is not the same as being kids' possessions, and the tags with an apostrophe actually do appear to be used differently on LibrayThing than the tags without one.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/kids#combinations

>1 aspirit: I disagree with this interpretation of the horror-fantasy-and-sci-fi tag. I'm not familiar with all the tagged books, but at least some are not within all three genres: for example, I doubt most readers would categorise The Magician's Nephew or The Time Traveler's Wife as horror. The user employing the horror-fantasy-and-sci-fi tag does not have separate tags for any of the three genres individually (or for combinations of two of them), which suggests it's intended to cover books in any of the genres.

I've voted in favour of the proposed combination with Science Fiction/Horror/Fantasy.

>5 Edward: +1

For starters, I doubt anyone considers Stephen King as science fiction.

>6 SandraArdnas: The publishers of The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction, which aims to "to provide a comprehensive, scholarly, and critical guide to science fiction in all its forms" do.

https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/king_stephen

I've also seen some of his books classified as science fiction by booksellers, reviewers, and fans.

>5 Edward: "When in doubt, leave it out." The problem with combining what's similar but not the same is that we can no longer easily see how much use of the tags diverge, and that makes looking for and contributing to the different uses more difficult. I figure that's why the guidelines for combining are what they are.

By the way, I'm frustrated to see the stretching of the guidelines continues after the implementation of GenreThing. Members who want to see everything that's similar averaged out can focus on building up that feature, yeah?

>8 aspirit: What do you mean by "similar but not the same" – is your view that the tags shouldn't be combined because they have different books near the top of the list? The top books for horror-fantasy-and-sci-fi and Science Fiction/Horror/Fantasy do look different, but that's just because the former tag is used by one person and reflects their interests (such as reading a lot of Stephen King). But there's no loss of information about a single user's interests if the tags are combined, because the user's tags can still be seen in their own catalogue.

>7 aspirit: SFE is NOT limited to science fiction. It covers fantasy and horror too.

The bottom line is, unlike you, to me it seems clear the person using the tag is using it in the same way - any one of the three genres and its many intersections.

"Religious non-fiction" and "non-religious fiction" are pretty clearly not the same thing:

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/religious+nonfiction#combinations

Tags beginning with '@' usually refer to where a book can be found, and should not be combined with the same tag without the '@'.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/%40University+of+Toronto

https://www.librarything.com/tag/%40Toronto+Public+Library

>12 MarthaJeanne: Looks like the @ symbols erased from your message. The code @ overrides the forum's desire to turn it into a usertag.

Have voted no, in agreement.

Edit: yes that looks fine now.

Thank you. When I go to edit the @ is there. And it worked here. Don't know what happened. Now fixed.

I think it's the second @ having the period directly after it, that makes the forum think: Oh are we wanting to tag the user named . (No forum, we aren't! Silly forum.) In this message it let me do a usual @ both times.

"Aurora Borealis" refers to the film. Without the quotation marks, it refers to the celestial phenomenon also known as the Northern Lights.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/%22Aurora+borealis%22#combinations

Due to the recent LT Hunt, there's been a lot of combination requests for LGBTQ and other not valid words, many of which needs no votes.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/LGBTQ#combinations

Examples I've seen:
Gymnastics
Historical Fiction
Pride

This is because of the Hunt?

Regardless of the reason for the large variety of suggestions, pride is not the same as library, to-read, or any of these other words that several members are trying to combine it with.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/pride#combinations

https://www.librarything.com/tag/library

Same for all the other words with LGBT-related tags. Examples:

https://www.librarything.com/tag/booklist#combinations

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/gymnastics#combinations

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/history#combinations

I also think it's because of the hunt, and people not understanding the difference between tag combining and tag mashing. However, if they could read...

Yikes what a mess, and from lots of different users too.

Yikes! Yes, I think >19 MarthaJeanne: is probably right.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/pride+glbt#combinations

What is the point? Neither tag is being used.

Besides, the guidelines specifically say not to combine glbt and lgbt.

>22 MarthaJeanne:

the guidelines specifically say not to combine glbt and lgbt.

Sure, but, to know that, one must actually read the guidelines.

Also a couple of weird ones here: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/memoir#combinations

Other than the capitalization, "LGBTQ pride" and "lgbtq pride" are exactly the same tag, so why separate them?

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/LGBTQ+pride#combinations

>25 lilithcat: Besides the fact that the capitalizations are combined automatically, so it wouldn't work anyway? The same user is also suggesting that we combine LGBTQ and pride.

>26 MarthaJeanne:

The same user is also suggesting that we combine LGBTQ and pride.

I saw that on the voting page, but when I went to the tag combination page, I didn't see it there!

It's very odd that someone would propose combining two different tags and also propose separating two identical ones.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/5.+klasse#combinations

In Austria, the numbering starts again after elementary school (4 years), so someone in the 5.Klasse is in their 9th year of school.

Also, in different countries schooling starts at different ages.

>28 MarthaJeanne: Also "5. Klasse" doesn't mention reading levels

Looking at the books tagged "ONT": https://www.librarything.com/tag/ONT, it is pretty clear that they have nothing to do with those tagged "Ont.)": https://www.librarything.com/tag/Ont.%29

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/ONT#combinations

In addition to the better known one in Canada, there is a Prince Edward Island that is part of South Africa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Edward_Islands

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Prince+Edward+Island#combinations

>31 lilithcat: I added this info to the tag CK, which of course does not appear on the combinations page. Still, it's there now.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Roman#combinations

The proposed combination is for a word that means 'related to the city of Rome', but ignores the meaning of 'fictional book, novel' that Roman means in many languages, even in Danish.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/noveller#combinations

Quite outside of whether the Danish word noveller is really equivalent to 'short stories', the first result in Google is:

Sarah Lipstate is an American guitarist and composer who records under the name Noveller.

One of her albums is entered in LT Noveller - Arrow

@34

FWIW, "noveller" does mean "short stories" in Swedish.

That's not to say the combination is a good one.

>35 AndreasJ: Given the length distinction in various languages between short story, novella, novel, it's one of the border cases that is hard to judge. But the musician makes it uncombinable, in my opinion.

Both 'sprog' https://www.librarything.com/tag/languages

and 'planter' https://www.librarything.com/tag/plants

are words in English that do not mean the same as the tag to be combined.

The German word 'Streiche' can mean 'pranks', but it can also mean 'I spread', 'I stroke'.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Streiche#combinations

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Louisa+B.+Rhine#combinations

The most common Louisa Rhine on Google is Louisa E Rhine.

The tag "Hanover House": https://www.librarything.com/tag/Hanover+House refers to a publisher/media distributor, while "Hanover (House)": https://www.librarything.com/tag/Hanover+%28House%29 refers to the royal House of Hanover.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Hanover+House#combinations

All the books tagged "Literature → Eco" are by Umberto Eco. Books tagged "eco-lit" are about the environment.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Literature+%E2%86%92+Eco#combinations

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Brittanië#combinations

Brittanië is Dutch for Britain.

Brittanie is only used on a report about Brittanie Cecil.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Arthur+Hastings#combinations

I'll point out that while most uses of this tag are for the fictional character, https://www.librarything.com/work/2743820 is not. (https://www.linkedin.com/in/arthur-hastings-8092b410)

It also seems a bit strange to separate Captain Hastings out and combine him in at the same time.

Hard to believe, but three people have voted to combine "internet" and "ghosts": https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/ghosts#combinations

>44 lilithcat: The original proposal is certainly an artifact of someone trying to use this for the treasure hunt and not knowing how to do a tagmash. (This exact tagmash is how I got one of the answers.) How to get from a tag page to a new tagmash is not really clear; I guess it seems plausible that "combinations" would result in a "mash." I cannot explain the upvotes, though!

yes this seems to happen every time there is a treasure hunt

There are people who just go down the line and click yes to everything, without looking or reading what they're voting yes for...

>47 gilroy: Has to be. I don't understand it, but for some votes, that is the only explanation.

There are Royal Opera Houses other than the one in London:

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Royal+Opera+House#combinations

"1414 Challenge" is not the same as "2014 Category Challenge" (even if 1414 is a typo): https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/1414+challenge#combinations

Several proposals to combine "Grade ..." or "Xth Grade" with "Course: Grade . . .".
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Grade+9#combinations
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/course%3A+8th+grade#combinations
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/course%3A+7th+grade#combinations
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/grade+6#combinations

The latter is probably books used as course materials, but the former could mean a variety of things - reading level, for example.

I would add that content warning is not the same as trigger warning.

Also Plant printing and plant pressing are not the same. You can press plants without ever using them to print. https://www.librarything.com/tag/plant+pressing

Why are people voting to combine book 4 and book 2?

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Duncan+Kincaid+%2526+Gemma+James+Book+4#...

>52 MarthaJeanne: Sorry, I made an error that I didn't catch. Please vote against it.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Duncan+Kincaid+%2526+Gemma+James+Book+4#...

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Khan+Noonian+Sung

Noonian Soong and Khan Noonien Singh are separate characters and should not be confused. This tag seems to be such a confusion.

>54 MarthaJeanne: I proposed that one as to me it doesn't seem intended to relate to the other character (since it includes "Khan" which is no part of the other character's name), also the work it's used on is novelisations of the movie series, where Khan features, rather than the Next Generation where the other character appears.

>55 Nevov: I'd generally say it's a bad idea to combine such confused tags; I'd leave, say, World War 1 (1939-1945), uncombined as well, no matter how clear it was that it was a typo.

>56 prosfilaes: Noted for similar ones I might meet, thanks both of you.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Louisbourg#combinations

Louisbourg is in Nova Scotia. There are places named Louisburg in several US states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisburg

"literatura-francesa" is not the same as "French literature-fiction". "Literature" is broader than fiction; it can include poetry, essays, lit crit, etc.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/literatura-francesa#combinations

Copy & paste error for combining "Lene Adler Pedersen" with "Jussi Adler-Olsen".

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Lene%20Adler%20Pedersen#combinations

There's a proposal to combine "animals hunting" with "Hunting Animals". To me, those are not the same. In the first, the animal is the hunter, in the second, the animal is being hunted.

I'm not sure why this proposal isn't showing up on the tag pages, but it is on the "proposed tag combinations" page.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/animals+hunting
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Hunting+Animals

>61 lilithcat: "I'm not sure why this proposal isn't showing up on the tag pages, but it is on the "proposed tag combinations" page."

Is it because there are no books associated with either tag?

https://www.librarything.com/tag/animal%20hunting works. Links with + don't.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Hunting%20Animals#combinations

"Pennsylvania mining" is not the same as "Pennsylvania": https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Pennsylvania#combinations

Recently several suggestions have been made including the bug '+'. Since there are no books with these bad tags I vote "No".

Example https://www.librarything.com/tag/18.%20Dynastie exists.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/18.%252BDynastie does not really.

See https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/18.%252BDynastie#combinations

>66 MarthaJeanne: Yes, sorry. I had temporarily forgotten about that bug.

"Love Divine" : https://www.librarything.com/tag/Love+Divine likely refers to the hymn of that name. Not the same as "divine love": https://www.librarything.com/tag/divine+love

>68 lilithcat: URL is with +, not the right one.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Love%20Divine#combinations

Since both books with this tag are anthem collections I assume you are right.

"Folklore-Iroquois" is obviously not the same as "Indians-Iroquois": https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Indians-Iroquois#combinations

"Queens College" is part of the City University of New York.

"Queen's College" is the name of a school in Wisconsin, a college in Oxford, a school in Hong Kong, as well as a variety of other institutions.

They're not the same.

Due to the weird "+" thing, I can't link to the proposed combination.

See:

geophile has proposed combining the tag Queen's College and Queens College.
Vote: Yes | No | Undecided Current tally: Yes 4, No 1 You: No (Cancel)

I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong, but here goes:
Underground Comix is a very specific comic publisher, that specializes in "adult" comics.
This is not the same as underground comics, which are independently published and not related to the big firms.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Underground%20Comix#combinations

>72 gilroy:

I agree, I've been voting against those proposals.

There's a proposal to combine "Legend of Camelot" with "leggende di Camelot". "Leggende" is plural, and the general rule is that plural and singular should not be combined.

geophile has proposed combining the tag Legend of Camelot and leggende di Camelot.
Vote: Yes | No | Undecided Current tally: Yes 4, No 1 You: No (Cancel)

There are a couple of proposals regarding the tag "nes", one to combine it with "NES" and the other to combine it with "Nintendo Entertainment Systems". It appears that "nes" and "Nintendo Entertainment Systems" are equivalent. However, the same does not appear to be true of "NES".

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/%5Bnes%5D#combinations

Any three letter acronym has multiple possible meanings, such as

not elsewhere specified
National Educational Seminar
Non Epileptic Seizure
NUCLEAR ENGINEERING SEIBERSDORF

The tag "St. Lawrence" is used for the saint, the river, and the seaway. However, the tag "The St. Lawrence" is used only for the river.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/St.%20Lawrence
https://www.librarything.com/tag/the%20st.%20lawrence

Save is proposed to be combined with retten, apparently based on its German use, which Wiktionary gives as "to save, to rescue". However there's several clear uses of the tag save that don't fit; SAVE - Survey of Architectural Values in the Environment is tagged save by a user who tags in Danish, and A Smart Girl's Guide: Money: How to Make It, Save It, and Spend It (American Girl) is tagged save, but that's sparen in German (and in general, sparen is translated into save in English.)

https://www.librarything.com/tag/retten
https://www.librarything.com/tag/save

>78 prosfilaes:
That one was also raised earlier at: https://www.librarything.com/topic/316429#7166290
(in case you notice not much movement on the numbers, as it could be due to people already weighed in at the earlier prompt)

>79 Nevov: Since that was a long time ago, I would guess that this is a new proposal. I have copied my message there into both description boxes.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/mage#combinations

Besides meanings related to wizard, mage can mean stomach(s) or mate in other languages. Even in English, Mage, magician and wizard are not really the same.

>81 MarthaJeanne: As well as being a plural-singular combination. Also, the mage tag is top-loaded with "Mage: the Ascension" and "Mage: the Awakening" books, which doesn't seem like a good fit with the more generic wizard or wizards tag.

As an irrelevant anecdote, in the drafts of Encyclopedia Magica, Volume 1, there were uses of the word "mage", which should have been "wizard" by house style. A quick search and replace later, all cases of mage had been changed to wizard, and the book went to print with hundreds of statements like "The tower can absorb 200 points of dawizard before collapsing."

The "San Francisco River" is in southwest United States. The "Sao Francisco River" is in Brazil.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/San+Francisco+River#combinations (I don't know why the proposal isn't showing here).

>83 lilithcat: Because of the + bug.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/São%20Francisco%20River#combinations

"Molena Point" is a fictional place in the Joe Grey mystery series.

"Molina Point" is an actual place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molina_Point

Chaton is the French word for kitten, but the English word is a kind of imitation jewel.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/chaton#tab:combinations

I just proposed combining Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum: https://www.librarything.com/tag/Isabella%20Stewart%20Gardner%20Museum with "Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum": https://www.librarything.com/tag/%22Isabella%20Stewart%20Gardner%20Museum%22 but forgot about the issue with quotation marks, and, of course, it looks like I proposed combining the former with nothing.

So please vote "no"!

I wish they'd fix that already. Also that weird issue with the "+" signs.

>87 lilithcat: Someone must just go through and click yes on all proposals. Cause that has a yes vote...

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Lake%20Como#tab:combinations

There are several Lake Comos in the US. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Como_(disambiguation)

And other places named Como Lake.

Elliot lake is in Canada.

Elliott Lake is in Australia, or in Texas.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Elliott%20Lake#tab:combinations

Whatever happened to "Combining singular with plurals should be avoided in general"? https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Tag_combining

Apparently Tim thinks it's fine: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/mystery#tab:combinations

I'm still going with not combining them.

>91 lilithcat:

I was about to say that if “mystery” and “mysteries” are to be kept separate, someone needs to separate out “mysteri” from the former, but it turns out that while that indeed means “mysteries” in Italian, it means “mystery” in Catalan.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Backlisted#tab:combinations

While it would probably be good to combine the various backlisted+podcast tags, the word exists outside that podcast, ans should not be combined with them.

>93 MarthaJeanne:

I've actually never heard "backlist" used for podcasts. I've only heard it used in reference to books (as in "publisher's backlist").

Backlisted is apparently a specific podcast about books. That doesn't make the tag 'backlisted' about that podcast.

"Queens Park" and "Queen's Park" are not the same: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Park

Also, the "Queen's Park Rangers" and the "Queens Park Rangers" are separate football clubs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queens_Park_Rangers_F.C.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Park_Rangers_L.F.C._(1969)

"Musical sheet music" is specifically for, well, "musicals", while "sheet music" is broader.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/musical%20sheet%20music

https://www.librarything.com/tag/sheet%20music

"Ghost Ship!" with quotation marks appears to reference a short story that's included an anthology: https://www.librarything.com/tag/%22Ghost%20Ship%21%22

Without the quotation marks, it's more general: https://www.librarything.com/tag/ghost%20ship

geophile has proposed combining the tag ghost ship and "Ghost Ship!".

The "Norumbegan Quartet" is a book series. "Norumbegan" is the adjectival form of "Norumbega", a legendary North American settlement (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norumbega and https://www.librarything.com/tag/Norumbega and https://www.librarything.com/tag/Norumbega%20%28Legendary%20place%29 ).

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/norumbegan#tab:combinations

>99 lilithcat: I knew this one would never fly, even though I am the only person to use the tag, and I use it in the exact same way the other tag is used. But yes, let us hold out for the hypothetical person who could use it some other way.

>100 Stevil2001:

Considering that there are more people using "Norumbega" and associated tags. and more books with those tags, it is perfectly reasonable to believe that they might use the adjectival form.

In any case, tags should be combined only when they are the same in both usage and meaning.

I'm not sure why 3 people have voted to combine "mystery" and "mystery "art history" Italy "Flavia di Stefano" Jonathan Argyll" ".

>102 lilithcat: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/mystery#tab:combinations

>103 MarthaJeanne:

Thanks, I'm never able to find the actual combination page these days, probably thanks to the "+" glitch.

I think the combination was proposed accidentally, due to the quotation mark glitch.

yes, I think so, too. The only reason I could find the page was that one tag was only one word. But since I had it, I shared it. It's high time that gets fixed.

The USS North Carolina is a battleship, North Carolina is a state.

xaagmabag has proposed combining the tag USS North Carolina history and North Carolina history

"$ Underground comic books; strips; etc - US " is not the same as "Underground comic books / strips / etc.." Note that "US" is in the first, not the second. Easy to miss, which is probably why the proposal was made and people are voting "yes".

There are Henry Fords other than Henry Ford (1863-1947)

Astonishing. FIVE people voted yes: geophile has proposed combining the tag and "Archimedes's Tomb".

>109 lilithcat: There are people that just go through and vote yes to everything.

"The Evangelic Catholic" is an author: https://www.librarything.com/tag/The%20Evangelical%20Catholic

"evangelical catholic" is not: https://www.librarything.com/tag/evangelical%20catholic

Four people actually voted "yes" on this!

geophile has proposed combining the tag Friedrich Habsburg - Emperor of Austria (1415-1493)/ and .

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Coffee%20in%20the%20afternoon
is almost certainly the title of a poem.

"A Cup of Tea" is the title of a short story by Quentin Crisp: https://www.librarything.com/tag/%22A%20Cup%20of%20Tea%22

a cup of tea (no caps, not quotation marks) is not the same.

geophile has proposed combining the tag a cup of tea and "A Cup of Tea"

Same issue with "Green Tea" https://www.librarything.com/tag/%22Green%20Tea%22 and green tea. The former is a short story, the latter is about the drink.

geophile has proposed combining the tag green tea and "Green Tea".

Any time I see a tag with caps and quotation marks, I check to see if it's a short story, as that is a very common way to designate those.

"Minotaure" refers to an image by the artist Joan Miro.

Minotaur (no quotation marks, different spelling) is used to refer to the mythical creature.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/%27Minotaure%27#tab:combinations

Also, (Minotaur) is a periodical: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/%28MINOTAUR%29#tab:combinations

Quantum (TV Program) and Quantum Leap (TV Program) appear to reference different things:

https://www.librarything.com/tag/%C2%A3%20Quantum%20Leap%20%28TV%20program%29
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Quantum%20%28TV%20Program%29

>116 lilithcat: Two multi-word tags.

How is LT getting on with solving the + bug?

>117 Cynfelyn:

I don't know, but I wish they'd fix it. It makes it really difficult, if not impossible, to link to a tag page and/or a proposed combination or separation. Incredibly frustrating.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Origen#tab:combinations

Besides Origen of Alexandria, there was also Origen the Pagan.

>119 MarthaJeanne: A yes, that had slipped my mind. Sorry.

Google and Wikipedia can be friends.

Definitely, and I feel silly for it. (I have downvoted the translation "Origene di Alessandria" now)

>122 Nicole_VanK: Yes, that needs to be voted down. Good catch.

"Fullerene" has to do with chemistry. "Fulleren" is apparently either an alternate or mis-spelling of it, but it is also an area of Alsace, and is used that way.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Fulleren
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Fulleren#tab:combinations

>124 lilithcat:

Fulleren is also the German for Fullerene.

That still doesn't matter if it has other meanings.

>125 geophile:

Yes, but the point is that "Fulleren" is used for things other than what "Fullerene" is used for, so they should not be combined.

"Famin" was a French artist of the 19th Century. It is not a misspelling for "famine".

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Famin#tab:combinations

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Neanderthal#tab:combinations

Neanderthal is also the old name of the region in Germany the the hominids are named for.
I have suggested a few separations, but there are probably more.

Aves can mean many things. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aves_(disambiguation)
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/.aves.#tab:combinations

>129 MarthaJeanne: "Aves" is already combined with "birds" so I've proposed separation accordingly.

cthulhuslibrarian has proposed combining the tag Dave Berg and Dave Berg 1920-2002.

See https://www.librarything.com/author/bergdave

“Palestine” is a region, a book title, a horse, and several towns and cities, in addition to a country:

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Palestine#tab:combinations

I've been meaning to ask here. There are quite a few combo recommendations where someone wants to merge the scientific name of a creature with the colloquial name. For instance the Waxwings. Are people okay with these going together?

No. First, such tags are going to be on very different books.

Second, many of the suggested tags are not being used.

>133 gilroy:

The Waxwings were a band: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Waxwings

"French--Juvenile literature" is about a French person (Lafayette). "juvenile french literature" is for a book written in French.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/French--Juvenile%20literature#tab:combin...

O.T. can mean many things other than Old Testament.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/old%2Btestament%2B-%2Bjuvenile%2Bliterat...

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/o.%2Bt--%2Bjuvenile%2Bliterature#tab:ali...

>137 zombiecat: Your links are buggy.

>137 zombiecat:, >138 MarthaJeanne: It's that old, old bug of the system inserting "%2B" to create "+" in the URL, instead of leaving the poster's blank space.

Is there any way for the poster to enforce the blank space in the URL, or do voters have to edit the URL for every (as another thread puts it) "bone-headed suggestion".

And/or a way to get the bug higher up LT's to-do list. I'm sure it didn't used to be a problem; is it a legacy of the change-over from LT v.1 to v.2?

The link https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/O.%20T--%20Juvenile%20literature#tab:com...

Should work.

OT can mean
off topic
occupational therapist
overtime
...

This bug is really a hassle. It makes checking tag combinations really difficult. It makes giving links difficult. We're also getting combination suggestions for the + tags that nobody is using.

It looks like links can be corrected by changing %2 to%20. But that is still a hassle. I guess the program decided that 0 means nothing so a 0 at the end can be dropped.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/United%20States--Biography--Juvenile%20p...

The vote to combine "United States--Biography--Juvenile poetry" and "United States-Biography-Juvenile literature" is currently above the decision threshold.

Note that first tag is about "Juvenile poetry" and the second is about "Juvenile literature". I think people are skimming and misreading the tags. It's an easy mistake to make.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/%22Green%20Tea%22
https://www.librarything.com/tag/green%20tea

are two different tags. The first follows the convention of quoting a story title; the one book so tagged is tagged by that user:
English Literature, Fiction, Speculative Fiction, Horror, Weird Fiction, Ghost Stories, Anthology, Fiction Anthology, Horror Anthology, E. F. Benson, "Mrs Amworth", Ambrose Bierce, "The Man and the Snake", Algernon Blackwood, "The Doll", Robert Bloch, Jack the Ripper, "Yours Truly Jack the Ripper", Ray Bradbury, "Fever Dream", Edward Bulwer-Lytton, "The House and the Brain", Charles Dickens, "To Be Taken with a Grain of Salt", Arthur Conan Doyle, "The Brown Hand", E. M. Forster, "The Story of the Siren", Mrs Gaskell, "The Old Nurse's Story", Nikolai Gogol, "The Overcoat", Robert Graves, "The Shout", M. R. James, "Lost Hearts", Sheridan Le Fanu, "Green Tea", Matthew Gregory Lewis, George MacDonald, "The Gray Wolf", Guy de Maupassant, "The Horla", Oliver Onions, "Io", Edgar Allan Poe, "The Black Cat", Seabury Quinn, "And Give Us Yesterday", James Thurber, "The Night the Ghost Got In", J. R. R. Tolkien, "The Mirror of Galadriel", Mark Twain, Samuel Langhorne Clemens, "A Ghost Story", H. G. Wells, "The Inexperienced Ghost", Oscar Wilde, Illustrated, Lawrence Mynott, Octopus Books, Gallery Books, Hardcover

And "Green Tea" is a story by Sheridan Le Fanu. green tea, on the other hand, is a much more used for books about tea, not horror anthologies.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/BL#tab:combinations

BL has a whole list of various things it can mean.

A user has proposed combining any tag with Vietnamese American in it with the broad Vietnamese American tag. All should be voted no.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Vietnamese%20American#tab:combinations

I would point out to those voting yes on Vietnamese American and Vietnamese Americans that the form with s is a plural noun, but without it can either be a singular noun or an adjective. It could refer to people or culture or writing or supermarkets.

San Antonio Texas existed before the US did, so this is a no from me:
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Texas%20--%20San%20Antonio#tab:combinati...

So did Ohio:
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Ohio#tab:combinations

And so did New Hampshire:
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/New%20Hampshire#tab:combinations

YA could stand for many different things:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YA

So that makes this a no as well:
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/young%20adult#tab:combinations

Made worse that YA seems to have fallen into the Pit of Black Hole Tags:
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/YA#tab:combinations

>145 MarthaJeanne: Doesn't that combo go against the guidelines of not combining singulars and plurals anyway?

>146 gilroy: I definitely disagree with the logic here. Most cities and regions existed before their current nation-state, I don't think that's a reason to keep them separate when they're clearly the same physical place. Do we need to separate "London England" from "London UK" because London, England hasn't always been in the UK? Many state names are already combined with "{state name} USA" (including New Hampshire) so that would require hundreds of separations that will never go through and leave it all in limbo.

>149 norabelle414: I definitely disagree with the logic here. Most cities and regions existed before their current nation-state, I don't think that's a reason to keep them separate when they're clearly the same physical place.

I agree with this, to some extent, but I think we have to be careful of not going too far in either direction. I see a logic to combining something like "San Antonio-Texas" with "San Antonio-Texas-USA." But I would not combine "San Antonio -- place" with "San Antonio-Texas," and I certainly wouldn't combine "San Antonio" with "San Antonio-Texas." One should only combine things that are unequivocally the same. And some of these are not unequivocally the same.

It does sort of make me wish that there were a mechanism of "related" tags....

>149 norabelle414: Honestly, Yes, we should separate London UK from London England.
Why?
Because they refer to different periods of time.

Based on your idea of "same physical place" we could also combine San Antonio Mexico with San Antonio Texas, because they were in the same place.
But they refer to different periods of time, and as such, to me, different tags.

However, I stopped posting anything here because everyone disagreed with all my notes. So *shrug* I'll go back to not posting and just voting.

>150 waltzmn: Right, I'm not suggesting we combine "San Antonio" with anything else.

>151 gilroy: Do we not ever have to be realistic? There are 31 "London UK", 5 "London Britain", 6 "London England UK", and 5 "London Great Britain" tags combined with 72 "London England" and even if someone bothers to submit all those separations, they are not going to go through. Do we really have to keep "New Hampshire - USA" separated from the already-combined "USA - New Hampshire" just because of a theoretical situation which does not exist in which someone is using the tag "New Hampshire - USA" to refer to New Hampshire only after 1788 and is going to expect that tag to be separate from "New Hampshire"?

I'm not suggesting we combine "San Antonio Mexico" with "San Antonio Texas" because that tag does not exist.

>153 norabelle414: As I said, I will go however the group goes. I stated my case. Nothing more to do. Obviously, more people disagree than agree.

A quick look at Wikipedia will show that both New Hampshire and Ohio have multiple secondary meanings. These will bother some users more than others.

>153 norabelle414: I'm not suggesting we combine "San Antonio Mexico" with "San Antonio Texas" because that tag does not exist.

Nor does the "The United States of America — Ohio" tag, nor the "The United States of America — New Hampshire" tag, the other halves of the suggested combinations referred to in >146 gilroy:. These are empty tags only summoned into existance by the combination suggestion. I believe the guidelines say tags should not be created purely for the purpose of combining. I voted "No" to both.

>156 Cynfelyn:
I'm seeing those tags in use on these books:
https://www.librarything.com/work/32431143/book/266918777
https://www.librarything.com/work/12550356/book/269925494

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/1775-1873-Juvenile%20literature#tab:comb...

This one has different dates by a century

”San Antonio Mexico” is anyway besides the point because there’s at least a dozen places called San Antonio in present-day Mexico.

But separating ”London UK” from ”London England” on the grounds that the former refers to a narrower chronological span strikes me as sophistry.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Marshes--Juvenile%20literature#tab:combi...

Juvenile literature is not always fiction. In fact, the books with that tag look like nonfiction to me.

>160 MarthaJeanne:

the books with that tag look like nonfiction to me

They, are, indeed, both also tagged as "non-fiction".

To repeat >160 MarthaJeanne:: Juvenile literature is not always fiction.

There's a proposal to combine "Orphan trains -- Juvenile fiction" with "Orphan trains-Juvenile literature" The only book on the latter page is non-fiction.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Orphan%20trains%20--%20Juvenile%20fiction
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Orphan%20trains-Juvenile%20literature

(each page says "There are open combination/separation votes for this tag", but clicking on that doesn't show them.)

>162 lilithcat: The bug that replaces spaces with + makes tag combining very difficult.

>162 lilithcat: The link is https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Orphan%20trains-Juvenile%20literature#ta...

On the tag page the top link has the bug, but at the bottom of the page, under helpers, you can get the proper link. Now if there were an easier way to get to the tag page.

We are now at Yes 5, No 5

>160 MarthaJeanne: >162 lilithcat: Sadly, you may have a lot of search and separate work ahead of you, as these types of tags have been combined for years. I've voted against the combo, but they frequently go through.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/M.S.%20Thesis#tab:combinations

MS = Master of Surgery or Master of Science
MSc = Master of Science.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/green%20tea#tab:combinations

green tea is a drink made from tea leaves prepared in a particular way.

Green Tea is a short horror story by Sheridan Le Fanu.

>167 DuncanHill:

It's important to note that the proposed combination here is not green tea and Green Tea. The second one is explicitly "Green Tea" with the quotes. That clarifies that there is a distinction. I personally would combine green tea and Green Tea without quotes. But that's not the issue.

>168 waltzmn:

So I'm more right than I thought I was? Cool.

>168 waltzmn:

Quotes are a standard way of indicating a short story title, so whenever I see that, I always check.

green tea and Green Tea (without quotes) are automatically combined, anyway.

>170 lilithcat:

We're not in disagreement. I'm pointing out that the quotes meant that it wasn't the generic item Camellia sinensis but to some specific work or entity.

>172 waltzmn:

I wasn't disagreeing. Quite the contrary. Just noting why quotation marks should be a warning to look more closely at the proposal.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Fairy%20tales-Juvenile%20drama#tab:combi...

Folk tales and fairy tales may overlap, but they are not the same.

>174 MarthaJeanne: Folk tales and fairy tales may overlap, but they are not the same.

Absolutely not. I speak as a folklorist! Until recently, all fairy tales were folk tales, but not all folk tales were fairy tales. And, in the last few decades, people have started to claim to write "fairy tales." I disagree with that, but the term is used.

Thanks for pointing out this combination-to-be-shunned!

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/sheet%20music#tab:translations

The Finnish word partituuri should not be translated as "sheet music". Partituuri is specifically sheet music for multiple instruments or performers. Sheet music can also be for only one performer. Sheet music must have at least three staves to be a "partituuri".

I suggest also to take a look at other words similar to "partituuri" that are in the tag translation page. Some of them may have the same meaning as the Finnish word, and should not be translated as "sheet music".

>176 inkcrow:

Link to combination proposal?

>177 lilithcat: There does not seem to be a combination proposal, just lots of bad translations on the translation page. These can be voted down. The German is the same as the Finnish cognate. refers not to sheet music in general, but to a score for several instuments.

>178 MarthaJeanne:

Thanks! Somehow it had escaped my notice that we could vote on translations. Something else to spend my time on!

"La Flûte de Pan" is a song by Claude Debussy. "pan flute" is used for the instrument generally.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/La%20Fl%C3%BBte%20de%20Pan#tab:combinati...

>180 lilithcat: Do you have a reason to believe that la flute de pan is not French for pan flute?

>181 jjwilson61: Do you have a reason to believe that la flute de pan is not French for pan flute?

Note the capitalization: La Flûte de Pan is in title case. So it's a title, not a generic noun.

The two works with that tag both refer to the Debussy song. None of the pan flute works does. The two tags are being used differently on LT.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/flûte#tab:combinations

Flûte can mean Flute, but it has several other meanings: kind of bread, champagne glass...

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/french-english/flûte_2

Maid Marian and Merlin are not the same!

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Merlin%20%28Legendary%20character%29--Ju...

'The Morrigan' refers to an Irish legend. 'Morrigan' has several other uses.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/The%20Morrigan#tab:combinations

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morrigan_(disambiguation)

There is a proposal to combine "Manga" with "format-manga": https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/manga#tab:combinations

These are not the same. My books The Hokusai Sketchbooks: Selections from the Manga and Hokusai, first manga master are about the traditional Japanese art genre, but are not in the contemporary manga format.

There is a proposal to combine "Wales" with "country-UK-Wales": https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Wales#tab:combinations

"Wales" can refer to various cities and towns; it's also a surname and a magazine.

There are several similar proposals to combine "country-{name}", where the name of the country can have multiple other uses.

Foundation for Contemporary Arts and Contemporary Arts Foundation are two different organizaions.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/contemporary%20art%20foundation#tab:comb...

https://www.librarything.com/tag/Contemporary%20Arts%20Foundation

"BBC's" is not the same as "bbc-a-big-read", yet it has 3 "yes" votes" : https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/BBC%27s#tab:combinations

It may be wrong, but Google Translate says that "和書 " means "Japanese book", which is not the same thing as "book in Japanese".

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/book%20in%20Japanese#tab:combinations

https://www.librarything.com/work/934721/t/Wheel-of-Time seems to be a nonfiction book unconnected with Wheel of Time series, whose authour was born less than a decade before that book was written.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Wheel%20of%20Time#tab:combinations

"the dance of time" refers to an alternate history book: https://www.librarything.com/work/151935/t/The-Dance-of-Time

"Dance of Time" refers to a book of poetry.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Dance%20of%20Time#tab:combinations

The tag "The Pennsylvanian" is used only for a periodical about the Pennsylvania Railroad: https://www.librarything.com/work/18935402/t/The-Keystone-volume-23-n%C2%B03#

The tag the pennsylvanian (lower case, no quotation marks) is used for geology books.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/the%20pennsylvanian#tab:combinations

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/LGBT#tab:combinations

This is covered in the guidelines. https://wiki.librarything.com/index.php/Tag_combining

>195 MarthaJeanne:

Even if it weren't "LGBT" is more inclusive than "GLB".

>196 lilithcat:

Given the books it’s used on, I suspect ”GLB” has at least one meaning unrelated to sexuality.

>197 AndreasJ: LOTS of other meanings. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLB

>198 MarthaJeanne:

Some separation proposals are needed, too.

I have proposed two separations on the GLB page, and added a description

>200 MarthaJeanne:

Link to proposals: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/GLB#tab:combinations

I also edited the description to add that the tag "GLB" is used for books that are not "gay/lesbian/bi".

CPH is another abbreviation with multiple meanings.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/CPH#tab:combinations

Three random ones are
CPH is the code for Copenhagen airport.
Castle Peak Hospital in hong Kong.
Chronic paroxysmal hemicrania (a kind of very bad headache)

Many of that user's other proposals are also not good.

For example: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/publisher%3A%20Concordia#tab:combination...

can also refer to Concordia University Press.

https://www.concordia.ca/press.html

I would not combine "Astronomie - Ouvrages pour la jeunesse" with "Children's Astronomy Books". "ouvrages" means "works", and I think that could refer to media other than books.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Astronomie%20-%20Ouvrages%20pour%20la%20...

"Book of Black Earth" is a metal band. The tag 'Book of Black Earth' has compilation albums and a music magazine.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Book%20of%20Black%20Earth
"Book of the the Black Earth" is a book series. It is also some kind of alternative name for the Simon Necronomicon, so it is tagged with it. The tag has nothing about the metal band.
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Book%20of%20the%20Black%20Earth

Because the tags have different usage and meanings, they shouldn't be combined.

>205 inkcrow: Thank you. Do you think descriptions on the two tags would help keep this from coming up again?

>206 MarthaJeanne: Probably yes. Though I have no idea how people are going to start tagging the book series and how it will influence the usage of the tags years later.

I can confirm that LC-MS is also an abbreviation that is used for the LCMS (Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod), and as far as I am seeing, that is the only thing both tags are being used for. (There might be a few niche alternate uses buried in there somewhere.)
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/LC-MS#tab:combinations
https://www.librarything.com/tag/LCMS

>208 AranelST:

LC-MS stands for Liquid Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry.

>209 lilithcat: lilithcat

But no one seems to be using it for that?

>210 AranelST: Yet.

It seems to me that this gets philosophical. Any tag could be used for something different than what it is being used for right now.

>212 AranelST:

The rule on tag combining is that the tags should be the same in meaning as well as usage.

LCMS stands for learning content management system

The point is that most abbreviations can be used for more than one thing, and probably should not be combined. In fact, many 'obvious' abbreviations turn out to be words in their own right in another language.

In this case, https://www.librarything.com/work/1805707/t/E-Learning-Praxishandbuch-Auswahl-vo... probably intends the meaning above.

Books tagged "library science" are about libraries. Books tagged "library - science" are about weather.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/library%20science
https://www.librarything.com/tag/Library%20-%20science
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Library%20-%20science#tab:combinations

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Jim%20Lovell#tab:combinations There are Jim Lovells who are not astronauts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Lovell_(disambiguation)

Similar https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/HAISE%20Fred%20%28Astronaut%29#tab:combi...

And why are people voting yes on this one?
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/read2013#tab:combinations
2023 and 2013 are not the same.

Books tagged "Black Science" are all from a graphic novel series.

Books tagged "Black/Science" is a children's book that is unrelated to that series.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Black%20Science#tab:combinations

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/science%3A%20linguistics#tab:combination...

One of these is not good.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Science%20Fusion#tab:combinations seems to refer to a specific series, and not to fusion.

Three people have voted "yes" on combining "Stephen King" and "convention programs"! https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Stephen%20King#tab:combinations

Plural - singular combination proposed. The standard is that plurals and singulars should not be combined.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/gothic%20novel#tab:combinations

>221 lilithcat: They are already combined

>222 norabelle414:

Then they should be separated. I've made those proposals now: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/gothic%20novel#tab:combinations

There is a proposal to combine "fiction" with "skönlitteratur": https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/sk%C3%B6nlitteratur#tab:combinations

This has been discussed before: https://www.librarything.com/topic/84889 They are not quite the same in meaning.

>224 lilithcat: And yet there are three yes votes

>225 gilroy:

People tend to assume that if a combination is proposed, there is a reason for it. :-p And not everyone will have seen the previous discussion.

People vote yes on the most ridiculous proposals.

raychel999 has proposed combining the tag convention programs and Stephen King.
Vote: Yes | No | Undecided Current tally: Yes 3, No 20 You: No (Cancel) (threshold met)

We also do not see the warnings and disambiguations when voting unless we specifically look for them.

>227 MarthaJeanne:

God forbid people do as instructed at the top of the "proposed tag combination" page and actually Please read the tag combination guidelines before casting a vote..

>228 lilithcat: First off, there's the old programmer's rule, "Nobody ever reads the instructions."

In any case, people don't always recognize the significance of what they do. We really need a way for the person who proposes the combination to justify that combination, and have it always appear with the proposed combination, and let people respond. Otherwise, we're all just guessing what people are thinking.

>224 lilithcat:
I suggested the tag combination, I’m not Swedish, but the Norwegian tag Skjønnlitteratur was already combined with the Swedish one.

I didn’t realize that this had been discussed previously. I do read through the guidelines before suggesting a combination, but I’ll start to search the tags in this group too👍
Edit: I genuinely don’t know how I missed the disambiguation notice, because I do read them.

>229 waltzmn: If you have to justify a tag combination then it isn't valid.

>231 jjwilson61: If you have to justify a tag combination then it isn't valid.

Suppose it's "Jesus" and "Ιησους" and "Ἰησοῦς." Same name, different languages, and the third form is the properly accented form of the second, which is the way it would be spelled in older manuscripts, and pretty reliably applies to the same person. And discussed under both spellings in Bible commentaries. What is someone who does know Greek to think of the combination if it is not explained?

Are you really voting on combinations in other languages that you don't understand. That sounds like a bad idea unless you know and trust the person, and in that case they can post in one of the "please vote on my combination" groups.

>233 jjwilson61: Not sure who this is addressed to, but in my experience, people who do not know the language tend to vote NO, not yes, or undecided which would be appropriate. You'd be hard-pressed to find a perfectly fine proposal that doesn't have 3 or more NOs, which for languages with not many native speakers among those voting means they'll never pass the threshold. I've personally given up doing any for my native tongue for that exact reason. So my plea would be, if not certain, there is the undecided option and pick that one

While some cross-language combinations are straightforward, many aren't. The most obvious English translation of a non-English word may have other meanings as well. Often the words mean something quite similar, but not quite the same. There are some letter combinations that are words in several languages (often including English) that the proposer is not aware of.

One of the best examples is the ever popular attempt to combine 'roman' with 'novel'. Roman, of course is a mess. It is a word in English referring to things about Rome, and in several languages it refers to a type of fiction book. There are a few other meanings both in English and in other languages. The book meaning in English is indeed 'novel', but that can also refer to something new. Neither half of the combination is allowable.

I find https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:Main_Page very helpful in chasing down meanings and words in other languages that I was not aware of.

>235 MarthaJeanne: While some cross-language combinations are straightforward, many aren't.

This is much of the point I was trying to make. In general cross-language combinations are bad. (Indeed, my "Jesus" example is bad, because there are a lot of people named "Jesus" who are not ο Ιησους ο Χριστος. But, say, the Greek and English and Latin of "Pontius Pilate" would be pretty solid.)

But there ought to be a way to make a case for such combinations, because (e.g.) I have Bible commentaries -- English Bible commentaries -- that refer to major Biblical characters by their Greek names.

It doesn't even have to cross alphabets. I am editing a medieval Robin Hood romance that calls him "Robyn Hode." It's Robin Hood all right; it's just a medieval spelling. Shouldn't the two be combined? But how is anyone to know without being told?

>231 jjwilson61: If you have to justify a tag combination then it isn't valid.

What about a tag split? It's the same voting system for both.

And, yes, as has been said, people absolutely vote "no" when really they should be undecided, and this happens in large enough numbers to affect outcomes. Having slightly more information to go on might decrease how often that happens, if for no other reason than because it would slow some people down slightly.

>228 lilithcat: God forbid people do as instructed at the top of the "proposed tag combination" page and actually Please read the tag combination guidelines before casting a vote.

First, I am extremely sympathetic to your sentiment here!

Second, there is a reason why "RTFM" (Read The (cough)Fine Manual) is a longstanding Thing in engineering & computing circles ...

Maybe I'm being overly pedantic, but see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabia_(disambiguation)

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Arabia#tab:combinations

>239 MarthaJeanne:

Probably not. But then I'm a member of the Pedants' Corner: https://www.librarything.com/ngroups/6918/Pedants-corner

If the minor meanings of "Arabia" are enough to prevent combination with "Arabien", then already combined variants like "Arabië" ought be broken out.

>239 MarthaJeanne: I don't think any of disambiguated wiki terms are relevant since all but a minor historical person are compound words and would be used as such if that is what the tag referred to.

My question, though, is whether Arabien is both a noun and an adjective. That would lead to quite different uses of the tag

>242 SandraArdnas:

As far as Wiktionary knows, "Arabien" is not an adjective in any language.

>242 SandraArdnas: Hmm, but "Arabia" can mean the people and culture and also the geographical location.

Is that possible for the German, Finnish, etc. "Arabien"?

I think it is for the French l'Arabie, but I'm not 100%.

>240 lilithcat: Oh My Goodness. Who knew? Thank You!!!

>244 keristars:

I’m trying to think of a context in English were “Arabia” would have a cultural or ethnic sense rather than a geographical one?

>246 AndreasJ:

There are some communities in American cities called "Little Arabia" because of the ethnicity of those communities. So those, arguably, have both a geographic and ethnic sense.

>246 AndreasJ: It would be like "the Arabic world" or "the Arab world". Referring broadly to cultural or ethnic ties rather than strictly geographical.

It's a use I recognize, and attested to on the disambiguation page, though not something I can give quotes for.

>247 lilithcat:

Well, that's no different from the "proper" Arabia, which is so called for being inhabited by Arabs.

>248 keristars:

In Swedish at least, it'd be strange to use Arabien as a synonym for "the Arab world", so maybe that's a real difference in usage. But the English usage isn't one I recognize.

Social sciences -- Mathematics should not be combined with Social sciences--Mathematical models. They mean different things.

Also, history is a social science, so someone may in the future use the latter tag for books about the history of mathematics.

>241 AndreasJ: In Finnish, "arabia" is the word for the Arabic language and "Arabia" for the peninsula and sometimes for a bit larger geographic area.

If Arabië doesn't mean both the the language and the region in Dutch, then the tags Arabia and Arabië should be separated. Ditto for some other spelling variants.

>250 inkcrow:

Link to proposal: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Social%20sciences%20--%20Mathematics#tab...

I voted against combining earth science and Earth Science / Yer Bilimi because yer bilimi means geology (source 1, 2, 3) which is simply one of the earth sciences.

Because yer bilimi literally means earth+science, it looks like the user who created the tag guessed incorrectly the English equivalent of the Turkish word.

>253 inkcrow: Thanks for the heads up. I also voted "No", thanks to the rationale and documentation you provided. Very close vote still.

I used the link you attached to "earth science" in your first sentence, which brought me to a page with a set of proposed combinations involving "earth science". (Sorry, I don't know how to turn text into links in one of these posts, so people will have to use the link you provided: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/earth%20science#tab:combinations) That was an interesting set to explore:

I voted against combining "earth science" and the words "Earth Science" enclosed in square brackets (see https://www.librarything.com/tag/%5BEarth%20Science%5D ). That tag is only used on 1 work, The Science Delusion: Freeing the Spirit of Enquiry, whose description reads in part "Religion & Spirituality. Science. Nonfiction. .... In Science Set Free (originally published to acclaim in the UK as The Science Delusion), Dr. Rupert Sheldrake ... shows the ways in which science is being constricted by assumptions that have, over the years, hardened into dogmas. Such dogmas are not only limiting, but dangerous for the future of humanity."

Someone who has Spanish might want to look at the proposed combination with "Ciencia de la Tierra/Earth Science" ( https://www.librarything.com/tag/Ciencia%20de%20la%20Tierra%2FEarth%20Science ) which is used only by 1 member.

Is there a point to doing a tag combination when nobody is using one of the tags? ( "+earth+science", https://www.librarything.com/tag/%2Bearth%2Bscience )

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Animal%20Science%20Projest#tab:combinati...

It seems to me that this typo 'projest' might well be supposed to be 'project', 'protest' is also a real possibility.

>255 MarthaJeanne:

It's used only on this book, though: Ace Your Animal Science Project: Great Science Fair Ideas

"Public administration and military science: Military science" is clearly not the same thing as "Military Science", yet 5 people have voted "yes" on the combination proposal: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Public%20administration%20and%20military...

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/%22Science%20and%20Society%22#tab:combin...

This tag refers to a specific series.

>257 lilithcat: I proposed combining them, because I saw it as a clear case of combining a tag about subtopic "Military Science" with a tag that is about the same subtopic ("Military Science") but that also mentions a larger topic of which the subtopic is a part of ("Public administration and military science"). Or: A = (A∪B)∩A, where A = "Military Science" and B = "Public administration".

The only user of tag "Public administration and military science: Military science" seems to use tags this way. If you look at the list of tags that they use, the tags seem follow pattern "Larger topic: Its subtopic". For example, "English and Old English literatures: English drama", "Law: Criminal law".

This is also why I voted against combining Public administration and military science with Public administration and military science: Military science. Because being under a larger topic is not the same as being that larger topic.

I'd love to know the reasoning of people who voted opposite to me.

Three people have voted "yes" to combine "Catholic priest" and "romance": more "no" votes would be helpful.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Catholic%20priest#tab:combinations

Yes, I thought that was weird, too.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Vater-Sohn-Beziehung#tab:combinations

Vater-Sohn-Beziehung is singular. Plural would be Vater-Sohn-Beziehungen.

Three people seem to think that "history" and "dragons" are the same thing: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/history#tab:combinations

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/romanzi%20storici#tab:combinations

This w ould be historical novels. Historical fiction includes other forms - like short stories.

I've proposed some combinations of tags containing NUR numbers.

People seem to have some reservations when the NUR number is followed by its name. See example here. I hope people would agree that these concern the same types of books and would be a useful combination?

The NUR numbers are often printed in Dutch books. If people tag their books with the NUR number they would be able to go to a tag page that includes a version with the name of the classification. Super useful!

Plain punctuation combinations are of course totally uncontroversial.

WhenI Google nur810 I get course descriptions at various universities. I will vote No on these.

Granted, maybe that's a factor when combining the classifications concerning health, nursing or healthcare. Since these NUR courses seem related to healthcare and nursing.

But for just about all numbers/classifications, the verdict is clear when looking at the books tagged.

The meaning and usage of NUR 305 Literaire thriller is the exact same as NUR 305 on LibraryThing.

Also, Nur is a word in multiple languages and has many meanings as an abreviation, making combining forms with and without aspace questionable.

That's only a factor if those different meanings were to be evident by the books tagged with them.

Maybe it's just me, but a deserted island is not always going to be a desert island.
(And isn't dessert the after meal thing?)

https://www.librarything.com/tag/DESERTED%20ISLANDS-FICTION

>270 gilroy:

It’s not just you. A desert island is a desert: sand, lack of vegetation, etc. A deserted island is one from which is no longer populated, and it may or may not be a desert island.

>270 gilroy: >271 lilithcat: Desert in desert island actually refers to being uninhabited and is common usage. Merriam Webster for reference https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/what-is-the-desert-in-desert-island

WP list both ”deserted island” and ”island with desert on it” as meanings of desert island. Insofar that deserted island can mean only the former, I guess that means they should not be combined.

(You learn something new every day; I was only familiar with the uninhabited meaning.)

>272 SandraArdnas: >273 AndreasJ: I still stand by my statement that a desert island is different from a dessert island. That's not a misspelling.

>274 gilroy: I don't know with people not knowing the difference between their, there and such nowadays, but I'm curious to visit dessert island. I want tiramisu in abundance, preferably growing on trees :D

>275 SandraArdnas: No doubt the dessert isle is flottant.

>272 SandraArdnas: >271 lilithcat: >270 gilroy: Sandra is right.

OED says a desert island is "An uninhabited, or seemingly uninhabited, and remote island; also attributive and figurative, esp. (of equipment, cultural objects, or behaviour) suited to the social isolation and limited baggage allowance of a castaway on a desert island." I was not aware of another usage until this thread.

The Coral Island was a desert island, but Jack, Ralph, and Peterkin did not go short of food and water. On Desert Island Discs the castaways are assured all they need to survive.

"Archetype" (with quotation marks") is a short story, so not that tag does not have the same meaning as the word without the quotation marks.

https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/%22Archetypes%22#tab:combinations

LGBTQ+ is not the same as LGBT:
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/FICTION%20%2F%20LGBTQ%2B%20%2F%20General...
https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/LGBT%20fiction#tab:combinations

LGBTQ+ includes gay men, but is not solely gay men: https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/Gay%20men%20%3E%20Fiction#tab:combinatio...

The tag "gay" is not the same as "FICTION / LGBTQ+ / Gay" : https://www.librarything.com/tag/detail/gay#tab:combinations