LibraryThing 20th Anniversary Survey

The LibraryThing 20th Anniversary Survey is finally out.

As I explained in another post, the goal here is not so much to find out what we should work on next (although we do ask that), but to understand LibraryThing members better.

The survey can be found at: https://www.librarything.com/survey.php?source=talk

Since changes would mess with the results, I'm unlikely to make substantial changes to the survey. But I'd appreciate your feedback even so.

It looks like this:

I think I know what you mean by the section labeled "I have added to my LibraryThing…", but I'm not sure. Do you mean, for example, "I've added none/some/most/all" of the books I own, or do you mean "My Library consists of none/some/most/all" of the books I own (in other words, to the exclusion of "books I read".

Neither stars nor essay answers worked for me.

Is there an "all" option for the question about read/owned/wishlist?

And the next question, are there tickys to select or is it bugged?

I stopped there, didn't scroll further to see if any other questions are unanswerable....

>3 MarthaJeanne: >4 keristars:

What browser/system are you?

>4 keristars: Is there an "all" option for the question about read/owned/wishlist?

I think you're not seeing it on your phone. Scroll to the right.

>6 timspalding: Can't scroll! I tried that before coming back to check!

I'm on FF on Android 11

>7 keristars:

We'll have to wait for tomorrow for Android phone tweaks.

>8 timspalding: Thanks ! (Presuming jury duty doesn't continue, I hope)

I'm using Safari on an iPad, with both browser and OS very old. I got tired of having to relearn how to do things.

oh thank goodness, I just found the Save Survey button, i need to restart my computer so the sound works before a meeting. So far I like the survey design and being able to see everything.

Oh thank goodness, I just found the Save Survey button, i need to restart my computer so the sound works before a meeting. So far I like the survey design and being able to see everything.

ETA
Wot, no "How many librarything accounts do you have" question?

A member pointed out that the "Pick up to five things LibraryThing should work on next." actually stopped you at 4. I've fixed it.

>13 timspalding:

I noticed that but didn't know whether the error was how many you got to choose or how many you were asked to choose. Thanks for updating it; I'll go and add my fifth choice now. :-)

Maybe you should screen for that so you'll know which ones we find the least important of the five. :-)

CORRECTION: For me, at least, it still says five but allows only four.

Heh. I considered giving people $100 and allocating it. But it was too complex.

>14 waltzmn:

Hmph. That's the best way to do a survey. I'd do it.

Of course, I'm an obsessive. :-p

>13 timspalding: Like >14 waltzmn:, it still says five but only allows four for me.

Thanks. Update hitting the server in 5 minutes.

>18 timspalding: Fix is showing up for me now. Thanks!

>19 GraceCollection:

Me too. The fix worked this time.

Not really sure what to answer the question about being a librarian/bookseller/etc. I used to be a librarian (that's what my degree is) but I'm not currently working as a librarian.

I'm having a lot of trouble entering the text.
As mentioned, I entered my additional answers in German. My plan was to translate them and append them to the German text.
However, every time I save, the text is corrupted due to incorrect character encoding.

Here is an example:
"Zu Beginn meiner Teilnahme bei LT habe ich auch Wunschb�¼cher eingegeben. Da dies sehr viel mehr sind als ich lesen kann, wurde mir LT zu un�¼bersichtlich.
Ich gebe daher nur B�¼cher ein welche ich zumindest begonnen habe.
Seit 2014 lese ich beinahe ausschliesslich B�¼cher in elektronischer Form oder ich h�¶re sie mir als ungek�¼rzte Audiobooks an.
Eine Ausnahme bei der Eingabe in LT bilden gedruckte B�¼cher welche sich in meinem Besitz befinden. Auch wenn ich sie nicht gelesen habe.
eBooks besitze ich sehr viel mehr. Sie werden in LT nicht erfasst, aber in Calibre verwaltet und erst beim Lesebeginn in LT �¼bertragen.

When I first started using LT, I also entered books I wanted to read. Since there are many more than I can read, LT became too confusing for me.
Therefore, I only enter books I've at least started.
Since 2014, I've read almost exclusively books in electronic form or listened to them as unabridged audiobooks.
The exception to this entry in LT are printed books that I own, even if I haven't read them.
I own many more eBooks. They aren't recorded in LT, but are managed in Calibre and only transferred to LT when I start reading."

How should I proceed?

Similar problems with character encoding are also part of my criticism of LT. ;-)

ETA:
MacOS Monterey (V. 12.7.6)
FF 142.0.1 (64-Bit)

>21 PawsforThought: Once a librarian, always a librarian . . .

>22 birder4106: I had tested (and reported) issues related to encoding before we released this. Is this in the "Elaborate on this?" section of the survey, or in the actual, long-form, essay questions (Section 5)?

>24 kristilabrie: In all six sections except section 5.

>21 PawsforThought: I have changed it to "Have you been…"

>22 birder4106: Thanks for the report. I'll get it fixed later. I cannot do so now.

>27 timspalding: Thank you.

>23 waitingtoderail: That’s kind of how I feel, but it also feels weird to say as haven’t had that job for years (not ruling out returning to it, though).

>26 timspalding: Aw, nice - thank you!

A couple of comments on the questions:

Q: Pick up to five things LibraryThing should work on next.
-- Typo: Improve reading tracking, with percent-done and progres (sic) notes
-- There's no Elaborate on this? field for this section. Comments on the options would be useful e.g., A much better mobile app invites comments, and the primary things I'd like LT to prioritize aren't on the list: adding the Edition Layer and Dark Mode.

Q: What other "social" things do you use regularly?
-- there's no none option. You can't differentiate chooses not to answer from there actually being none.

>30 civitas: I noticed that too. I would love to be able to elaborate on the question of prioritised next task.

I picked some things LibraryThing should work on next, but the main one is missing: Close the import-export loop. Please. It gives me anxiety when it crosses my mind should anything happen, I'd only be able to re-import a handful of fields, and even that without ISBN, or else it will ignore my fields and do an import from a source

Is there an end date for when the survey will no longer be available? I didn't see anything here or on the survey page.

>33 Karlstar: After you submit the survey it says "You can edit your answers until October 24."
That should probably be mentioned elsewhere, too.

Hi, I'd like to request a clarification for this:

QUESTION 3 - LibraryThing Features
SECTION - Pick up to five things LibraryThing should work on next.
OPTION - Allow members to add their notes and marginalia for books

Can someone expand / rephrase the option? How does this differ from Private Comments and Comments?

Well, a marginalia feature would be a much more extensive thing. You'd probably have the ability to put in notes by page numbers, attach images to notes, etc. Other members could see other members' marginalia, etc.

>36 timspalding: this reminds me of something I forgot to add in the survey, which is to be able to link to works cited in the book and then to be able to see where your book has been cited. Like a Google Scholar for books instead of journal articles.

>36 timspalding:
Page numbers for marginalia, notes, etc. are a tricky thing.
The page numbers vary massively depending on format (hardcover, paperback, digital formats such as PDF, ePub, audiobooks, etc.), edition and language.
So I think one possibility would be to refer to the percentage of the total size, length, and duration. Of course, with a conversion back to your own edition.

>38 birder4106: Most of us don't know 'Percentage', are hardly going to be willing to work it out, even if it were clear which pages in a book ought to count towards it. (Annexes, indexes, study guides, introduction to the second enlarged and updated edition...)

>38 birder4106: Marginalia would be a personal note, not CK, so you'd refer to your own copy

>40 SandraArdnas:

This may be true of "marginalia," but I'd really like it if LT could also offer "commentaries" -- that is, something shared. So it would be preferable to find some reliable way to cite things.

Maybe one mechanism would be chapter and way-through-chapter ("Chapter IV, about a third of the way in"). This is how I tend to point people to books where there are man editions.

>32 SandraArdnas:

I put extras in one of the free text fields at the end. I too had other things which were not on the list. :-)

>42 andyl: I put extras in one of the free text fields at the end. I too had other things which were not on the list. :-)

Maybe what we need is a petition mechanism. :-) That way, we'd have a better idea just how many people care about a feature.

Of course, we also need to know how much they care. Which is why Tim's idea of "if you had $100, how would you spend it" would have been good.

(Truly obscure footnote from voting theory -- and, yes, there is an academic discipline devoted to how to vote: There is no voting mechanism that will always determine the outcome that people like best. "Flip a coin" is terrible. Plurality voting is also pretty bad. Ranked Choice voting, or Instant Runoff voting, is better, but it's easy to demonstrate scenarios where it doesn't work. I repeat, nothing works perfectly every time. But the "If you had $100, how would you spend it" system -- "points voting" -- is the best we know of. Back when I was a member of the Mathematical Association of America, that was what they used, though I will confess to not knowing what they do now.)

Filling out the survey and thinking about what I love about LibraryThing got me reflecting on how the catalogue/Your Books has so many different display and sort options, and on how often I switch between them (as I check different collections, look at just the books by a particular author or in a particular series, focus on entering data in specific fields, etc).

Even though I can remember when collections were first introduced, I've become so used to all the functions and features that Your Books currently has that I don't stop to think about how useful and convenient they are.

So I wanted take a moment to express my appreciation. Thank you, LibraryThing!

>41 waltzmn: What's the difference between commentaries and marginalia here?

>45 timspalding: What's the difference between commentaries and marginalia here?

Which term one uses is arbitrary, I think. (Note that I was responding to >40 SandraArdnas: about a private comment in the margin.)

The distinction I'm trying to draw is between comments one scribbles in the margin for one's self ("marginalia") versus comments on a text that are intended to be shared with others ("commentary").

So, as an example, if one wrote a book that mentions Vicksburg, Mississippi, a marginal comment might be "I've been there!"; a commentary might contain the observation "Site of a major siege during the American Civil War. When the city surrendered to Ulysses S. Grant on July 4, 1863, it cut the Confederacy in half."

One might use the same mechanism for both, but "marginalia" would be for the individual user, and probably private to that individual, like Private Comments; "commentary" would be shared, like Common Knowledge.

>1 timspalding: Thank you for announcing the 20th Anniversary Survey. As a long-standing member and bibliophile, I'm pleased to see LT continuing to evolve and seek member input after two decades of service to the book community.
I appreciate your transparency about the survey's dual purpose—both understanding the membership better and gathering insights about future development priorities. This approach demonstrates thoughtful community engagement.
I have completed the survey (still in draft) and look forward to participating in this milestone reflection. From my perspective as someone who has witnessed the evolution of bibliographic resources over many decades, LT has carved out a unique and valuable niche in connecting readers and their collections in ways that traditional library systems haven't achieved.
If I may offer one observation: the platform's strength has always been its ability to serve both casual readers and serious bibliophiles. Maintaining this balance while evolving will likely be key to its continued success. I see in sight AI. How things are going to be, for worse or for better? Are we going to use it?
I'll be interested to see how the survey results inform LT next chapter.

>46 waltzmn: The distinction I'm trying to draw is between comments one scribbles in the margin for one's self ("marginalia") versus comments on a text that are intended to be shared with others ("commentary").

Yes. Any such system would need to be able to distinguish between public and private--between "Jane kissed me for the first time when I was on this page" and "this passage is a coded allusion to the War of Jenkins' Ear."

>47 AntonioGallo: If I may offer one observation: the platform's strength has always been its ability to serve both casual readers and serious bibliophiles. Maintaining this balance while evolving will likely be key to its continued success.

Yeah. It's the trick. My hope with the survey is that I can reel in some of the more casual people. Because their voice isn't always heard.

>48 timspalding: Yes. Any such system would need to be able to distinguish between public and private--between "Jane kissed me for the first time when I was on this page" and "this passage is a coded allusion to the War of Jenkins' Ear."

Exactly. I'm not concerned about the name "commentary" versus "marginalia," but I'd genuinely be interested in coded allusions to the War of Jenkins's Ear. No matter how one handles the apostrophe. :-)

>50 waltzmn:

No. The rule is that certain significant people don't get the double S. Thus Jesus', Moses', Jenkins' :)

>51 timspalding: Who is teaching that it’s “significant people”? (Also, who gets to decide if someone is significant. I’ve only seen that rule as being about classical (Greece/Rome) and biblical names. Merriam-Webster agrees with me.

>51 timspalding: >52 PawsforThought: I think the style guides are all over the shop. I have definitely seen the classical people thing. I've seen never adding a possessive s when the word ends in s. I've seen people add possessive s. I think it is something that has changed over the years and in different countries and in different style guides.

So far we've had some 622 responses. After 539 I made a second version of it, removing a few questions and adding some others.* I wanted to know some new things, and there were some questions that we absolutely had enough info from. We've got 83 of the new ones.

I'm not sure how much we're going to share, but I'll reveal a few things we've seen so far:

1. Respondents are still very skewed toward members with large libraries who visit the site a lot. But we have enough casual users to get a sense of how they differ—and they do.
2. There's a near-universal consensus that we need a better app.
3. "Content warning and trigger tagging for sensitive material" is the lowest pick for new features—3.7%.
4. For the new mobile app—a version 2 quesiton—the least-wanted thing is a dark mode. We're still going to do it.
5. "A way to do quick cataloging of books, potentially skipping the edition you have" (a version 2 question) is divisive, with the highest "strongly in favor" and "strongly against."
6. Members are in favor of short-story, poem and article cataloging. Good.
7. The best source of LT news is the State of the Thing newsletter—way more than Talk, the news section, social media.
8. People are unaware there's a "help" link on every page.
9. Members are COMPLETELY unaware of our library product, Syndetics Unbound. This is funny, because that's what keeps LibraryThing alive—it's where we make most of our money. I don't want to push members too hard, but it would be good to get them on our side, telling libraries about us. More library sales equals more time to work on LibraryThing.
10. So far responses are 54% women, 38% men, 4.7% nonbinary. This is about what I'd expect.
11. LibraryThing members are pretty old. The most popular group is 60s, followed by 50s. This is something we need to work on.

Most of all, however, the replies overflow with love and support. They make my heart explode. Members have desires and criticisms, but the level of appreciation… well, it makes my day, week, month, life.

---

*Whatever you answered in terms of versions, you are stuck with it. Maybe at some point I'll let people answer all the questions.

>53 andyl: I think the style guides are all over the shop.

Regarding apostrophes in words of the form xs(')(s), you are correct, there is much difference. And often the style guides are ambiguous, or incomprehensible, even so. :-) The fifteenth edition of the Chicago Manual of Style, for instance, devotes four and a half pages, and twelve sections, to this topic, some instances of which I cannot fathom (e.g. under "some exceptions" it offers the examples "for Jesus' sake but Jesus's contemporaries").

There has been a general tendency over the years to go from 's to just ' -- even in instances where this reduces clarity. Some style guides now basically drop all s's after apostrophes. This goes along with a general tendency to shorten. I don't know, but I suspect this follows from a tendency to shift from Chicago style to AP style. AP style is less clear and, to my eyes, less attractive, but it is ever so slightly shorter (perhaps 0.1%), so perhaps it's more attractive to publishers.

FWIW, the most obvious difference between Chicago and AP styles is the inclusion versus omission of the serial comma or "Oxford comma." So a Chicago publication would say,

Of Scathelock, Muche, and Johnn

whereas an AP publication would say

Of Scathelock, Muche and Johnn.

As I say, ever so slightly shorter.

>54 timspalding: fwiw I'm very aware of Syndetics Unbound, and have praised my library for switching to it from sirsi back in Dec '24. :)

But I'm still waiting for the adjusted layout code so i can fill it out on my phone!

I've been planning to push casual users to fill it out, too, but can't in good consciousness do that until i know there won't be the same trouble I'm having.

>54 timspalding:

Members are in favor of short-story, poem and article cataloging. Good.

If you do that, I hope you figure out a way to group them separately from actual books on the Author page.

>54 timspalding:

Members are COMPLETELY unaware of our library product, Syndetics Unbound. This is funny, because that's what keeps LibraryThing alive

But my guess would be that the vast majority of members are not actual librarians and so would have very little interest in, or awareness of, something designed for libraries. And Syndetics Unbound is not prominently promoted on pages that members are likely to visit.

>54 timspalding: …I made a second version of it, removing a few questions and adding some others … Whatever you answered in terms of versions, you are stuck with it. Maybe at some point I'll let people answer all the questions.

How does this affect those of us who have started answering and saved our replies but not sent them in yet?

>57 lilithcat: Perhaps introducing a category indicating something is a part of a larger work 'only' (though this might become moot in many cases as there's a tendency to publish short stories individually in digital formats, journal articles can be bought individually, etc)

>58 lilithcat: Yeah, that’s what I would be on being the case. Also, not everyone who answers the survey is from the US, and our libraries wouldn’t be able to use Syndetics Unbound anyway.

>59 PawsforThought: How does this affect those of us who have started answering and saved our replies but not sent them in yet?

It doesn't you're v1. You'll remain so.

But my guess would be that the vast majority of members are not actual librarians and so would have very little interest in, or awareness of, something designed for libraries. And Syndetics Unbound is not prominently promoted on pages that members are likely to visit.

Oh, I know. It would be nice to get members a little interested in it, since I suspect most LibraryThing members visit and love their library. Maybe 40% of US ones have us in their catalog but don't know it.

Also, not everyone who answers the survey is from the US, and our libraries wouldn’t be able to use Syndetics Unbound anyway.

SU is sold around the world. As far as publics go, it's strongest in the US and Australia, but it's in a lot of Canadian and British libraries too.

>62 timspalding:

Re: Syndetics Unbound

It might be useful to talk this up in Talk of the Thing periodically. Like others, I know nothing about it and haven't seen references to it. Mentioning it here might help some, but the newsletter probably reaches more people.

I just searched my email and I have 46 State of the Thing emails that mention Syndetics Unbound.

>64 Aquila: I just searched my email and I have 46 State of the Thing emails that mention Syndetics Unbound.

This is curious, because I just checked three recent ones (as much work as I was willing to do), and a text search for "Syndetics" revealed nothing. Is it in the metadata? Somewhere in an image? In any case, a mention is not the same as explaining or promoting it.

>54 timspalding: "8. People are unaware there's a "help" link on every page."
I was aware there is a "help" link, I was unaware it is context based (or whatever phrasing was used). I would have presumed it to simply lead to a static "Help" page with table of contents etc.

Curious about whether the respondents location breakdown is comparable to userbase? If the survey has been open long enough for that.

Agreed on the help button. I always assumed it went to a generic help page.

I also didn't know that Syndetics Unbound was affiliated with LibraryThing and am not sure if I have heard of it before (I don't remember seeing it in a State of the Thing email the way I always see TinyCat). Since TinyCat has paid tiers I just assumed that was the financial backbone for the free service that is LibraryThing.

>67 darius52:

TinyCat is nice money. Syndetics Unbound is in a large percent of public libraries in the US—30%? 40%. That's real money. We have ten employees.

I was aware there is a "help" link, I was unaware it is context based (or whatever phrasing was used). I would have presumed it to simply lead to a static "Help" page with table of contents etc.

This is something we need to improve. We have some plans there. It IS context based, but we want it to open a slider, not take you to a wiki. If you go to https://www.librarything.com/trivia and click on the help button on the page, you'll see what we mean.

>57 lilithcat:

Yes for when they only appear as an inclusion in a greater work, but with the rise of ebooks a number of short stories exist as standalone works too. I have even seen short stories published as pamphlets. IMO these should still appear as actual main works.

>68 timspalding:

On the Help button. I think the fact that people don't know exactly what the Help button does is a good thing - it means they haven't needed to press it :-)
Or maybe they are just so jaded by sites and programs where Help doesn't they never bother any more.

>62 timspalding: Okay, mea culpa. But those examples are all of English-language, non-EU countries. Do any (non-English) EU countries use SU? And I don't know how procurement works in any of the mentions countries, but the rules here are very strict. It is NOT up to the libraries to decide which systems and services to use.

>66 Avron: That would be a big improvement to the help sections. I'm a long term member of LT, but ever since I joined, I've found the help pages (and I did not now they were context based until a few years ago) very outdated in style (and I know there's plenty of outdated information there, too, so that doesn't help).

>70 andyl: Not necessarily true. It could also be that they have pressed help before but found the wiki page so outdated in style that they assumed the information was also outdated (or maybe even found that to be true, as I've seen several times since LT 2.0) that thye assumed it wasn't of any actual help so never checked it again.

>71 PawsforThought:

You never noticed that you got different help pages depending on where you were in the site until a few years ago?

What do you mean outdated in style? What would you like them to look like? Most help kinda looks the same.

BTW I think there is also a problem with some of the help pages where they are not accessible. Take the Help Page for Talk for example. It includes images to show sections of the screen. These have no alt-text.

Outdated info should be edited out - if you find any please do - but I guess looking at the Help and keeping it current is the kind of job that isn't very interesting to most members (it isn't for me).

>54 timspalding: "LibraryThing members are pretty old. The most popular group is 60s, followed by 50s. This is something we need to work on."

It seems that every organisation to which I belong to worries about not attracting enough younger members. But is it really a problem? People's interests change as they grow older, and they have more leisure time to indulge those interests once children have grown up and retirement beckons. Some of today's younger people will join LT once they have finished building a family and a career.

>73 andyl: No, I didn't think about it because I didn't really look at the help pages at all. Outdated in that it looks as if someone uploaded a Word-document from ca 1997 and did almost no reformatting.

>75 PawsforThought:
But can you point to something that you do like? It is mainly textual - but that shouldn't be surprising or unexpected. Looking at the Help Page right now I don't see the formatting has being bad just a little spartan (but then it is no surprise that it is nearly all text - it is a website for tracking your library). It is split into sections and you have a contents list to the right to help navigate.

I think a lot more sophisticated help system would mean even fewer people helping - translating, and contributing.

>76 andyl: No, I can't because it doesn't look good. Tim linked to the help page on Trivia Thing, which looks great and much more modern.

>77 PawsforThought:

But that's not a "Help" page. And also it looks horrible.

>78 lilithcat:

It actually draws from the same wiki. It's just on the page.

>54 timspalding: "11. LibraryThing members are pretty old. The most popular group is 60s, followed by 50s. This is something we need to work on."

For a thing, we old farts (I am 62) are probably more into books than younger people. I don't know what kind of cataloguing may interest them without snaturating LT.

>79 timspalding:

Okay, we're talking about different things. It's the trivia page you linked to that looks bad. The help link goes to the wiki page, which has the same appearance as every other wiki page.

>81 lilithcat:

The help part of the Trivia Page looks bad?

Well I don't think it does, Tim. It doesn't look that dissimilar from the regular help wiki either, just different font colors and sizes. I'm not sure what else people want...it's words on a screen. Do they want pictures? GIFs? Video? Semaphores?

>83 Bookmarque:

I was thinking she was objecting to the slide?

FWIW, videos and screencasts would be ideal. But they are IMPOSSIBLE to keep up to date. Change a menu somewhere and you have to redo the video.

>82 timspalding:

No, the Trivia page itself does.

>84 timspalding:

I don’t see any slider, unless I don’t know what you mean by that. It just looks like any other wiki page.

>82 timspalding: I think there might be confusion over the 2 different Helps on the Trivia page -- the regular one in the top right nav (which links to the wiki) and the on-page blue help button, which has the new "slide over" version.

Yes, quite possible. That "help" is the sort of Help we pan to add. It wouldn't be there, but replacing the current help link. The change is that it would slide on the page, rather than taking you to a wiki.

But does the text come from the wiki where it can be edited by anyone, or would staff take over the job of maintaining the help pages?

>88 jjwilson61:

TBD. I think the answer is that we'd take making short versions--enough to fit in the panel, but no more. Then link to the wiki for gory details, maintained by anyone.

>86 ablachly:

I think there might be confusion over the 2 different Helps on the Trivia page -

You are quite right. I never even noticed the blue "Help" link, probably because I'm so used to the regular one.

>71 PawsforThought: Malmö stadsbibliotek uses SU -- https://malin.malmo.se/ -- look up any book, click the title, scroll for the section Book Profile / Bokprofil, look for the link Browse Profile / Titta på profilen, when it expands, it's SU. I'm only pointing out that SU does get used by non-English libraries...you just have to know what you are looking at.

Goodness, I knew I was on the younger end of LT users, but I didn't think I was quite that much younger than average!

>91 lesmel: Really? I wasn’t saying it would be impossible, I was simply asking, because I know how the system works here. And clearly, Malmö kommun have decided to allow usage of SU. That wouldn’t be the case everywhere else.

>54 timspalding: >74 ocrhdlg: I think a less negative term than "old" would be appreciated here. How about "experienced, veteran, senior, seasoned, wise ones, elders" instead? If LT members in their 50s and 60s are old, then I must seem ancient (I am 72). I was 60 years old when I graduated from library school.

>54 timspalding: LibraryThing members are pretty old. The most popular group is 60s, followed by 50s.

This doesn't surprise me. People probably aren't looking for a way to catalog books until they've acquired a lot of them, and they're more likely to have acquired a lot of them by collecting over many years.

Also consider that many members have been here for (by internet standards) a long time: the respondents who are in their 50s and 60s may have joined when they were in their 30s and 40s. Brand loyalty!

LT should try to attract members of all ages, but it may just kind of be a place people age in to instead of out of.

>74 ocrhdlg: Not only do people's interests change as they age, but as time goes on then the environment around them that molds their interests in the first place change too. The internet/tech in general has been kind of on an oversimplification kick lately, and it seems people around my age (I'm 22 for the record) either actively prefer that, or have just gotten used to it enough and potentially kinda forgotten any earlier internet/tech experiences when websites allowed more customization, with the end result of either being that websites like LT just end up feeling overwhelmingly complicated. The exception being people who are more technically inclined, I guess. Or people who are more interested in older internet and indie web stuff. I do wonder if a good balance could be struck and if LT could have a "simplified" mode (in the vein of that cataloguing books without edition info thing) that could appeal to a younger audience without kneecapping the site too bad for people who are more detail-oriented. The more oldschool-feeling depth that LT has is why I like it so much, personally.

>92 Watry: I was thinking the same thing :v I was expecting the site to lean older but that much older definitely was a surprise (not that it's a bad thing, it's just genuinely not what I expected)

>95 amanda4242:

This doesn't surprise me. People probably aren't looking for a way to catalog books until they've acquired a lot of them, and they're more likely to have acquired a lot of them by collecting over many years.

There's a big jump from 20 to 40 here in our data. The twenty year-olds have fewer books, and tracking reading is more imporant to them. Our 40-year-olds have got big libraries and are less about the reading tracking.

>97 timspalding: I'm over 70, and I want both. Can't figure out now why I didn't want to track my reading until I was over 50. But I certainly need a way to track which books I (still) own.

>97 timspalding: Yeah, LT isn't great if you want to do status updates of what you're reading right now. I do think the Year in Review is far superior to comparable features on other sites, both because LT gives more stats and because it allows users to input accurate data for their books.

So I guess it's really good if you want to look at the forest, but it could use some improvements on looking at the trees.

>95 amanda4242: I joined when I was 21... now I am 40! I guess I'm still on the young end by LT standards, though.

>97 timspalding: That's interesting.

>36 timspalding: This sounds like the "view popular highlights" and "view friends' notes" option on Kindle, which I turned off immediately the first time I heard about it.

>54 timspalding: "LibraryThing members are pretty old. The most popular group is 60s, followed by 50s. This is something we need to work on."

Um....?

>57 lilithcat: YES. IMO that's going to result in a giant mess, especially the giant mess that already exists with editions that aren't the same (translations, new editions with new material, etc.) that don't get separate entries, or get counted as duplicates.

>54 timspalding: timspalding: "LibraryThing members are pretty old. The most popular group is 60s, followed by 50s. This is something we need to work on."

The concern expressed ("This is something we need to work on") suggests the recognition that attracting younger users is essential for the platform's long-term sustainability. This raises interesting questions: should a specialized platform adapt to different demographics, or should it instead prioritize its niche of experts and enthusiasts?

I'm actually a dinosaur, should I worry?

>102 the_red_shoes: >104 AntonioGallo:

LibraryThing has been around for 20 years. In 20 years our 60 year-old will be 80, and most our now 80 year-olds will no longer be with us, or at least not using LibraryThing as much. It's important we recruit new members, and good if we can attract some younger ones. Twenty years ago, our average new user was in their 40s. Now it's 50s. It needs to go the other direction.

>74 ocrhdlg: Yeah, I found that pretty insulting. Ageist actually.

I wonder if any of those school children using LT to flout their schools' firewalls have filled out the survey. In 20 years, they will not be children, will not have school firewalls to cheat around, and will probably have forgotten all about LT. For these reasons, I hope that isn't a demographic LT is going to try to appeal to.

I do understand the desire to have a reliably expanding userbase, but there are plenty of things I can think of that would appeal to 'The Youth' which would make the site terrible for the current users who like LT as it is. I have seen plenty of websites and services go down a dark path of trying to draw in new business and in so doing alienating their current user base — that never ends well for anyone, and I sincerely hope LT is not at risk of doing this.

I do sincerely believe that this website has something to offer for book collectors of all ages, and lack of new, youthful users is a problem of advertising. I did not hear of this website through advertising; it had to be suggested to me through word-of-mouth. That's a great business model for a local café, but I think LT needs a more aggressive strategy.

>107 GraceCollection: I wonder if there's some way to promote LT more among more nerdy and/or tech-inclined younger people, maybe a LibraryThing Mastodon/Fediverse account that promotes LT somehow could be a good step in that direction? The network is filled with tons of younger people who are a lot more "adventurous" in their internet usage and would likely actively want something that's not as dumbed down as tends to be common on the modern web.

Actually, directly before I came to LibraryThing I was using something that runs on the same network as Mastodon that works similar to Goodreads called Bookwyrm, but I dropped it because it didn't let me catalogue the way I liked (being too simplified for my tastes), and I kind of miss the social features Bookwyrm had.

In 20 years the kids who care enough to flout their schools firewalls will be applying for developer jobs here.

>107 GraceCollection:

We have no intention of handing out lollipops. But it would be nice if we could appeal to our kind of people in our 20s, 30s and 40s.

Bookwyrm

Yeah. We've thought about joining that protocol. We'd have asked a question about it, but nobody knows it and it would be hard to explain.

>110 timspalding: We have no intention of handing out lollipops. But it would be nice if we could appeal to our kind of people in our 20s, 30s and 40s.

That's a relief to hear.

I wonder, if Syndetics Unbound has such far reach, if there's something that can be done with that connection to promote LT to library users who are already demonstrating interest in books. I've seen library catalogues make use of NoveList to recommend similar reads; perhaps LT could come up with a widget that can unobtrusively be added to an OPAC saying 'LibraryThing recommends these similar reads:' and ultimately drive some traffic back to us.

I also wonder if a little quid-pro-quo could be arranged with independent bookshops. I'm imagining a sticker, banner, or flyer on the door of my favourite local used bookshop that says 'Find us on LibraryThing!' in exchange for maybe showing up first on the list when someone's 'local' address is within, say, 20km. Maybe having a star instead of a circle as their icon on the map.

>62 timspalding: I'd visit/use my library (a UK county library) more if it had books I wanted to read. My local one is a branch library anyway, and has a poor selection of my favourite genres (what they have I generally already own), and the digital selection is lousy, especially for series. I've no idea whether they use Syndetics Unbound; the front end is Libby; I can ask next time I visit the next door supermarket (I don't use it that often as it's upmarket and I prefer to buy books).

>113 Maddz: Syndetics Unbound and Libby are totally different.

>114 MarthaJeanne: That's what I thought.

>110 timspalding: timspalding: We have no intention of handing out lollipops. But it would be nice if we could appeal to our kind of people in our 20s, 30s and 40s.

"Here are some ways LibraryThing could attract younger users who share your values and interests:
Academic and scholarly outreach: Partner with graduate programs in literature, library science, history, and related fields. Many young scholars would appreciate LibraryThing's cataloging sophistication and bibliographic tools.
Social media presence that showcases depth: Instead of superficial book content, highlight the platform's unique features - rare book discussions, detailed cataloging, scholarly conversations, printing and publishing history.
University library partnerships: Many students and young faculty discover their love for serious bibliography through academic work. LibraryThing could integrate with university systems or offer student accounts.
Maker and craft communities: Your letterpress experience suggests there are young people interested in traditional book arts, printing, binding, and craftsmanship who would appreciate LibraryThing's more serious approach to books as objects.
Genre-specific communities: Reach out to serious genre readers (SF/fantasy scholars, mystery aficionados, poetry communities) who value the kind of detailed cataloging and discussion LibraryThing enables.
The goal should be finding younger people who already have the bibliophilic temperament, not trying to convert casual readers into serious ones. Quality of engagement matters more than raw numbers." (AI)

>166 AndreasJ: These are good ideas - I discovered LT after a lecturer I had when I was doing my library and information science degree recommended it!

Incidentally, if you filled out the survey, you can return and you'll notice several new questions and can answer them. So far we've had three "versions" of the survey, and you'll continue to get the one you initially did, but there are several questions that cross all three versions which we added later.

I'm an early user and an early survey respondent. I wonder if there is any correlation.

>119 paradoxosalpha:

We can split the survey by account year, usage, version, etc. There are indeed differences. Not to downplay the voice of anyone, we're particularly interested in responses from people who aren't participating in Talk, expecially discussions of LibraryThing, bugs, etc. There are differences, although I'm pleased to say that more casual users are as positive and enthusiastic overall as anyone. But, for example, people who don't participate in Talk are less interested in social things. (Not rocket science, that, but it's good to see how and in what ways.)

The question is how to let younger people acquire a bibliophilic temperament and make them join LT? I asked my cognitive agent, this is the answer:

"That's a profound question that goes to the heart of cultural transmission. A bibliophilic temperament isn't just about loving books - it's about developing a deep appreciation for knowledge, craftsmanship, intellectual curiosity, and the physical and cultural heritage that books represent.

Early exposure and modeling: The temperament often begins with seeing adults who treat books with reverence - not just as information delivery systems, but as objects worth preserving, discussing, and treasuring. Children who grow up seeing books handled with care, seeing adults excited about discoveries in old volumes, absorb this attitude.

Tactile experience: Let young people handle genuinely old or well-made books. There's something transformative about feeling paper that's decades or centuries old, seeing different typefaces, understanding how books were physically constructed.

The detective aspect: Many young bibliophiles are drawn by the investigative elements - tracking down rare editions, understanding publication histories, discovering textual variants. It appeals to the same instinct that drives genealogy or historical research.

Connecting books to broader passions: A young person interested in music might develop bibliophilic feelings through sheet music collections, or someone interested in science through early scientific texts. The key is showing how books connect to their existing enthusiasms.

Mentorship and apprenticeship: Nothing replaces having an experienced bibliophile share their knowledge and enthusiasm directly. Past and personal expertise in printing, linguistics, and book history represents exactly the kind of deep knowledge that can ignite similar passion in others.

The temperament emerges when someone realizes that books are not just containers for content, but artifacts of human civilization worth preserving and understanding."

>116 AntonioGallo:

Apparently Storygraph is the new hotness (as the kids say) - having doubled its user-base in about a year and a half. I see loads of mentions by younger people than me - who maybe aren't as data oriented.

I would also say that your stuff in >121 AntonioGallo: is veering towards elitist nonsense. I think plenty of younger readers (in the fantasy / SF genres) are more than capable of appreciating books as physical objects which is why they love stuff like the Broken Binding special editions. Me, I'm more that they are containers for content (although I do have plenty of physical books and still buy physical books) and I've been here 20 years. I think there is very little correlation between the love of books (as physical objects) and use of an application to track your relationship with books in the abstract (be that data oriented or just tracking your reading progress).

AI?

>121 AntonioGallo: Please don't copy-paste from ChatGPT or whatever LLM you're using. A lot of us have an aversion to those things for various reasons, not least because they were trained on stolen writing, and we think LT should respect the work that goes into books, dissertations, journal articles, etc.

But mostly for me it's the huge error rates of a system that doesn't actually "know" anything. Why should it be trusted about what will bring younger users to LT when it can't even figure out how to answer an elementary student's math word problem?

>124 keristars: and has proven to be at least as racist and misogynic as the worst of the materials it has been trained on.

>124 keristars: & >125 MarthaJeanne: And isn't it a TOS violation here unless clearly labeled?

>124 keristars: As far as I can see it, here the problem, rightly raised by LT founder Tim Spalding, is how to increase young people's registrations to the platform. Even AI ideas can be useful for a better future.

>126 amanda4242: And isn't it a TOS violation here unless clearly labeled?

It was labelled, although we don't know which hallucination machine regurgitated it.

Another point: LT wants the viewpoints of users. If the staff wanted the viewpoint of artificial regurgitators, the staff could consult it themselves.

One wonders a little if being more open to AI might help LT's demographic bias. It's us old fogeys who know that taking words and putting them in a different order is not a source of originality. :-)

>128 waltzmn: AH, missed the label because I didn't know "my cognitive agent" referred to a crapbot.

We will be using more LLMs in a future update to our import function. Basically, we'll be better at handling unstructured book lists. Otherwise, I don't see much cause to use it on the site.

We do use a lot complicated statistics in our recs. If we were trying to get funded, we'd call that AI. But it's just statistics :)

>130 timspalding: A far better use than trying to get it to do your thinking for you.

>122 andyl: I finally signed up for SG just a few minutes ago, and yeah, "data-oriented" is not exactly the vibe of the site. I shouldn't expect my recent reading to be represented there, but they seem to be using Amazon for a data source, and several of the books I tried to associate myself with have more than one version on the site without an obvious way to report that they're the same thing.

It's very heavily "what are you reading?" (have read/want to read) and when I copied in my review for Bessie at the Sea-Side, there was a slew of questions with multiple choice answers that I had no idea how to answer. Nothing for "this is a children's book from 155 years ago" or about it being a way to teach children Christian values.

It's not a site for people with less popular reading taste. It's very minimal/no fuss. You find the right book on the site and change a drop-down menu to "Currently Reading" or other reading status, and it's in your reading journal.

As with GR, you can't change a cover to match what you actually have, and when I submitted a request for a book I read a couple weeks ago, but not in the system, I have to wait for someone to approve it, which is kind of annoying. But it has options to support fanfic and "mood"-based recommendations, which I'm sure are appealing to readers who aren't me.

>132 keristars:

FYI: your link goes to a sign-in page, not your profile.

>127 AntonioGallo: They aren't "AI ideas" because LLMs/genAI can't have ideas. They aren't a being that has any concept of understanding or thinking. They're stringing blocks together that make approved patterns, and those blocks happen to be words.

>130 timspalding: I trust what you do with LLM because I saw you talk about iterating with the early versions of Talpa Search and using it more like the pre-ChatGPT ideas of "AI" and LLMs. I'm more hesitant about the idea of using it on lists, though, because I'm now exposed to examples where it's obviously gone wrong. I hope you're able to do extensive testing to ensure it doesn't add things not in the original list, or leave anything out.

>133 lilithcat: oh, that sucks. I'll get rid of it, then. I just wanted to show what all that effort got me, nothing like my list here. :(

>134 keristars: Yes, we'd have to make sure users approve it.

>136 timspalding: Ah, good! That should help then.

>132 keristars: I finally signed up for SG just a few minutes ago, and yeah, "data-oriented" is not exactly the vibe of the site.

That is a humongous understatement, lol. If GR is a list of your books with social features focus, Storygraph is just reading tracker, social features and recs. Quite unbelievable, there is currently no way to see a list of your books. They have some stats for annual reading, but no 'home' that lists all.

I believe they attracted a good chunk of GR members who use primarily or exclusively their phone to track reading (GR app is widely considered very poor). If LT plans to work on significantly improving the usefulness of its app, that is an opportunity to appeal to this segment. For one, LT has orders of magnitude better recs, but they'd need to be easily accessible through the app.

>138 SandraArdnas: Quite unbelievable, there is currently no way to see a list of your books.

Aha ! I thought I was just missing something obvious to people who are used to the type of app that SG is (it reminds me a bit of the very brief encounter i had with Libby, before i deleted it with prejudice and went back to the overdrive website lol)

I was offended, too, that of the 8 books I added, a third are listed as "non-fiction" without an obvious way to fix it, and that my "reading taste" is apparently "emotional" when that feels like such an irrelevant word for the books I listed (3 from the Bessie series I touchstoned previously, and the first 5 of the 1880s Three Vassar Girls series, which are travel themed. they don't have the 6th in the db, so i quit because i didn't want to get my read data wrong by going out of order, and who knows when my submission will be approved?)

LibraryThing clearly has so much going for it, the improved app for phone use will be pretty great. I'm looking forward to promoting it when it's here, especially if it simplifies reading tracking for the folks who just want that.

This talk of the limitations of SG is making me feel so vindicated! I recommended LT to someone “on social” after someone else had recommended SG and that someone else couldn’t believe I’d recommend a site made by a “white guy” when there was a platform created by a WOC. I’m all for supporting women and non-white people, but that is not my only criteria for whether I’ll support a product or service.

>140 PawsforThought: Good grief! I hope you then blocked that person.

>140 PawsforThought: yeah, I almost mentioned that aspect several posts ago, but ultimately i think if someone is using SG *because* it's Black- and woman-owned, they're unlikely to be very open to switching to LT, so it's a non-starter to look to them as future members for site longevity or for where to add to/beef up LT features.

I think it's healthy and good for multiple sites to exist that can meet different needs. But i have seen plenty of people complain about SG's limitations while also dismissing LT, so I've been curious about what it is that draws them to SG even if it's frustrating.

>140 PawsforThought: "support"?

I mean, the point here is to use the site, right? Are you expected to just camp out there in solidarity until it eventually--if ever--supplies the functionality to do what you want?

I try to be a healthy traitor to whiteness. But that can't mean boycotting every white-owned business for any and all purposes, when there is an inkling of a possibility of a POC-directed competitor.

>141 amanda4242: It was such a bizarre thing I didn’t even think about blocking. It’s unlikely we’ll run into each other again, anyway.

>142 keristars: Yeah, if that’s their main criteria then they’ll never switch to LT (and good riddance!)
The owner/creator’s gender and skin colour is really only relevant to me if it’s somehow affecting the actual product or service. But books have neither genders nor skin colours so it’s irrelevant to me. So for me the question is more: “Is the owner/creator an evil billionaire? No? Great, I’ll have one of each, please.”

>143 paradoxosalpha: Same. Definitely support where you can and where it makes sense, but if I were to boycott all white-owned companies, I’d have neither food to eat nor clothes to wear.

>144 PawsforThought: So for me the question is more: “Is the owner/creator an evil billionaire? No? Great, I’ll have one of each, please.”

That sounds like a sensible attitude to me. It's not like LT is powered by the blood of puppies or anything, so I'll keep using it. (Please don't tell me if there's puppy blood on Tim's hands because I reaaally want to keep using this site.)

>146 PawsforThought: Who's a good puppy? Such a pretty puppy who will never ever be harmed by my book habit.

>145 amanda4242:

It's not like LT is powered by the blood of puppies or anything

No, I love puppies. But it's well known here that I don't like cats. I'm allergic to them, which is a good excuse. But I also just don't like them. Never killed one though…

yet.

I think some sort of connection to ebook platforms might help with the, at least, less physical book crowd. If I could import my Kindle list here, it would be nice. DriveThruRPG actually seems plausible.

>140 PawsforThought: I'm quite fascinated, and not in a good way, by the US absolute tolerance for this kind of racism. It's one thing to support people who you think are disadvantaged or disenfranchised in some way and quite another to dismiss people solely based on their race and quite literally state so.

Personally, I support people and companies according to what they actually do, which includes small user-friendly businesses with a recognizable system of values in place.

>148 timspalding: Not a cat fan, myself. I don't want them killed for processing power or anything, but not a fan.

While Tim is a white heterosexual male, a quick look below under Contacts will show that he hired a very diverse group, and that shows in many ways throughout the site.

>148 timspalding: and >151 amanda4242: I actually have a dog phobia (but still wouldn’t want dogs to be hurt). But if anyone even says a bad word about cats, which are the greatest animals ever to walk the earth, I will riot.

>150 SandraArdnas: I’m with you!

>153 PawsforThought: Agree to disagree about cats.

>152 MarthaJeanne: This is true, and something I appreciate.

Way back in the dawn of things, knowing some of the staff were LGBTQ+ was a huge positive for me.

These days, I like seeing what staff are reading in the Friday social posts. It's always a variety of things, different genres and styles. It's a nice little reminder that they're not all the same kind of person, very unlike what I would expect a Silicon Valley staff reading list to be.

>122 andyl: >132 keristars: I use Storygraph but pretty much only for its auto recs, which I think are better than LT's at least where fiction is concerned -- partially because of the mood-based recs. LT does seem better for nonfiction recs, though I feel like those could still be more robust than they are. Everything else about SG I think blows chunks, I mentioned SG in my survey response and I almost worded it as using SG especially its cataloguing features makes me "want to flay myself alive" despite recs being good but I believe I toned back my wording :v (EDIT: I just went back and checked and I kept that wording intact, beheheh)
>138 SandraArdnas: I'm actually surprised it's so popular with mobile users, I find the app is... really bad. It often breaks on me randomly, whether it be pages being inexplicably wider than the width of my screen, or the back function just not working out of nowhere. Maybe it's better on iOS.

Also is it okay to mark myself as someone who's been in tech if I've never done it as a job but am just an enthusiast programmer and the like?

>156 ngoomie: "Also is it okay to mark myself as someone who's been in tech if I've never done it as a job but am just an enthusiast programmer and the like?"

I think you have to have pulled at least one all nighter (or all weekend) fighting a hacking attempt, hardware issue or network issue before you can really say that.

>128 waltzmn: One wonders a little if being more open to AI might help LT's demographic bias. It's us old fogeys who know that taking words and putting them in a different order is not a source of originality. :-)

I wouldn't count on that. I'm seeing a lot of young folks in my work — I'm talking teens and twenty-somethings here — who are vocally, adamantly against AI. Most of the reasoning I'm seeing is about environmental concerns or stealing art. Of course, I don't interact with every teen on the planet and I'm sure there are some who think it's good fun, but I am optimistic about what I see from the youth.

>148 timspalding: Never killed one though… yet.

D:

>149 prosfilaes: I'd second DrivethruRPG with my nearly 1000 titles on there. However, it's still not enough; my primary RPG tracker (for print offerings) is RPGGeek. I've been in the hobby since white box D&D days, and I have a lot of OOP print titles including fanzines. However, some caution should be exercised for both sites: they include accessories which won't fit well with LT like VTT support packages and (RPGGeek) miniatures.

>157 Karlstar: I'm good on that front then, I do run my own website with a few different services for me + my friends and I've essentially done that w/ a network issue :p

>161 ngoomie: Always a fun time, I hope you never have to again!

I can't get the stars to work in Safari.

>163 pussreboots: Do you have JavaScript enabled or any browser add-ons or extensions enabled? (If so, I might try disabling them to see if it helps.) Perhaps another browser will work if you have one?

*raises hand* definitely consider myself a "casual" when it comes to LT here. The keeping and tracking my entire library over a long time and large scope is the primary appeal that's kept me here. On the other hand, reading this thread is probably the longest time I have ever spent under any Talk/Group section even if you combine all the other times together.

StoryGraph did indeed mostly replace my Goodreads for in the moment tracking, mood checks over a month or year, and finding new things. It's also good for keeping up with bookish friends I already have from other places. (and you absolutely can see all of your books on SG across all time in a list, they just put that under a really stupid spot and I wish they would change that). I don't think either site would work as a replacement for the other because they are filling complementary needs not identical ones, at least for me.

My online-book-club friends who can just about keep up with our 12 books a year are just not going to have a use for the depth Library Thing offers, and that's OK, you're valuable for the audience you already serve, noone can be the answer for ALL of the people. Heck, I feel like a huge outlier here because I'm not a librarian, not a researcher. It's almost too formal here for me. It's for sure not going to attract my social group. But I do love LT for what I do use it for which is pretty much exclusively found under Charts and Graphs. Sometimes recommendations, there's a different angle used here compared to other sites, and I enjoy having 3 different algorithms to poke at when I need something I haven't seen a million times already.

Also much love for "the least-wanted thing is a dark mode. We're still going to do it."
I know the vast majority don't care about dark mode, but for those that have an accessability need, (or those of us who care about someone who does) it makes all the difference.

Answered the new questions now.

Some questions and answers could use some clarification. Am I, frex, "in tech"? Not in the sense of working for a "tech company" in the sense of Meta or Google, but I do work with software on a regular basis.

>166 AndreasJ: If you get paid to work with software on a regular basis, I think that counts as you being "in tech." :)

ETA I think the main takeaway is that you have more behind-the-scenes knowledge of the overall life cycle of software.

>167 kristilabrie:

Thanks; I voted the right way then.

>167 kristilabrie:
I was going to fill in the survey when I retire from a tech-company tomorrow, but as they will still be paying me until the end of October, I guess i will still count as tech :)

>169 TimSharrock:

No, it says ever. Once, then always!

Congratulations on your retirement!

>170 timspalding: thanks! One of many things I want to do is complete my cataloguing. Onward for the next twenty years!

Any updates on when the survey will be tweaked so it can be answered on narrow screens?

>132 keristars: "they seem to be using Amazon for a data source" they also seem to have copied series information from LT. But can't deal with multiple series on the same book.
"without an obvious way to report that they're the same thing" there's a "report an error" link or similar wording on each book page. Seems to typically be dealt with after no more than a couple of days.
"can't change a cover to match what you actually have" covers should (emphasis should) match ISBN which they nearly deal with properly by what I've seen (ISBN 10 and ISBN 13 are treated as different from each other)

>138 SandraArdnas: "there is currently no way to see a list of your books" https://app.thestorygraph.com/owned-books/_USER_ gives a list that is organised by most recently added. Infinite scroll like almost everything else they have however.

Following from that. One change that might drive me from the site could be the introduction of "Infinite Scroll" to the Your Books page etc. 100 books at a time is plenty and trying to find where one was up to after inadvertently clicking a link and going 'back' thanks to Infinite Scroll is frustrating.

>117 PawsforThought: I agree! I discovered LT when I was required by my children's services professor to use it (or something like it) when I was working on my Library and Information Science graduate degree. I have been a fan ever since then.

Expanding LT’s user base and developing the app might be mutually beneficial in their resolutions:

The web-site is loaded with features that appeal to a a certain mindset, perhaps older and/or more technically inclined; but can seem overly complicated to potential users.

The app though is underdeveloped. What is there is good but you could add a couple of features and still Keep It Simple…: Reading tracker? Book count? Ability to add/share photos? A fast-and-easy version of LT that appeals to users who might be less willing to sort through the web-site’s organizational structure and those who gravitate towards heavier app usage (e.g., under 50s).

>175 Tanya-dogearedcopy: The app though is underdeveloped. What is there is good but you could add a couple of features and still Keep It Simple…: Reading tracker? Book count? Ability to add/share photos? A fast-and-easy version of LT that appeals to users who might be less willing to sort through the web-site’s organizational structure and those who gravitate towards heavier app usage (e.g., under 50s).

It seems to me that this is what the app already does (when it works :-). It lets you enter a book quickly, and it lets you check if you already own one. If you want to do something heavy-duty, like write a serious review, you use the web site.

I do think the ability to add cover photos with the app is a very good feature, since you can point a phone's camera and you can't point a computer camera very well. :-) But do you need it for things other than covers? And it might be good to let it crop the photos.

I suppose there really is an attitude difference here: For something as important as books, I want to deal with them on the largest screen possible. :-)

As for how I personally use LT, I agree with >176 waltzmn:. I don't even use LT on mobile. A website like LT that is customisation-forward and technological more complex, even if it is 'old-fashioned' or 'difficult to learn', suits me best.

However, LT is clearly trying to draw more users from a younger base, who use apps more frequently than websites, who probably want a sleeker look and streamlined features, since that's what's 'in'. >175 Tanya-dogearedcopy: The web-site is loaded with features that appeal to a a certain mindset, perhaps older and/or more technically inclined; but can seem overly complicated to potential users. I agree with this.

Having a modern-looking, easy-to-use interface, even if it's missing some of the features that those of use who are more technology-minded enjoy, might get more users of the app in that younger demographic.

I think essential features for that group would be a simple add-books feature, adding covers (which from my understanding doesn't currently work), viewing 'Your books', and Talk.

For people who like the site as it is, I believe firmly that the mobile site should remain unchanged, allowing access to all features of the site as it does now.

I also think the app shouldn't be too bloated. I like it the way it is.

I'd like to see the ability to add cover images with the camera, as well as crop and align them.
And, in addition to adding books, the ability to import books into LT using the camera, OCR, and the ability to edit the found text.

>177 GraceCollection: The add books part is the only thing I use the app for, and that's because it's so simple! I can do it on my phone, while every single other thing I want to do on a larger screen with a real keyboard.

>118 timspalding: Have I missed the announcement of the results of this survey?