Suntup Editions Books (5)

We hit the 1000+ mark in the previous thread, so a good time to start a new one. As of now, there are less than 300 copies of The Hellbound Heart Classic Edition. Might sell out soon (or not), but I do also wonder if some people are putting off purchasing the Classic in the hopes of acquiring a Numbered? Both the Numbered and the Lettered look truly wonderful. I imagine finding a copy on the secondhand market will be sweet sweet suffering (sorry, couldn't resist :)

>1 astropi: The box for the lettered is pretty sweet. Does it move like a puzzle?

I'm going to try for a Numbered tomorrow, if it's within my price range. I love the chains-and-flesh design of the book, along with the occult geometry. The Lettered is great too, but those are usually outside my discretionary budget.

>3 Shadekeep: The pricing for the numbered is $895 for a pre-order.

>2 SDB2012: More than just move, it is a puzzle!
"Constructed from black walnut, ziricote, and maple, the box features sliding and shifting panels that must be manipulated in the correct sequence to unlock and reveal the book within."
It's lovely. Also at $5950 far beyond what I can afford, but if I could afford it, I absolutely would.

>5 astropi: That's great! But yeah, for $5,950 it is out of my league.

>6 SDB2012: I'd be quite surprised of the Numbered and Lettered don't sell out super quickly when they go public tomorrow.

>4 mholt: Woof, thanks for the head's up. Probably will pass then and content myself with the Classic.

>7 astropi: Many people have been clamoring for this book since day one. I suspect you are correct.

Not surprised more than 60 numbered were available. That design is not appealing.

Usually the lettered editions are gone within seconds too, seems the price is making people think twice.

Im surprised that there are numbereds left. On the other hand, Suntup has sold over $600k worth of a novella in less than two days. As of 12:18 EST, 0 lettered, 35 numbered, and 252 classic. Seems like a huge win.

>12 SDB2012: I suspect the only reason there are any Numbered left is because the limitation was upped to 350 instead of the usual 250. Definitely a big win for Suntup, and it's great that pretty much everyone is able to get a copy.

Ha, got back from running my errands and the Numbered is still available, so I caved and ordered it. I probably wouldn't have if PayPal didn't offer the interest-free 4-installment pay plan. It makes the pain all the sweeter.

19 numbered available at the moment, so everyone should have a fair chance. And it was clearly the right decision to up the limitation for this title. Good for Suntup and anyone who wanted this edition.

And then there were none --



congrats to everyone that got a copy, and congrats to Suntup!

I got the numbered at the very end, semi-impulse buy, but I do really like the numbered design.

>10 Undergroundman: >13 astropi: >12 SDB2012:
Remember that the rights situation for that upped limitation was one of the stickier ones Suntup has ever had, with 250 numbered getting their rights from the preceding book as usual (Gospel According to Biff), but Numbered owners of Outlander with a designation of 251-300, and Numbered owners of American Gods with a designation of 301-350.
With such a time gap and genre gap it's not surprising to see 60 numbered editions - in fact I'd have guessed far higher.

>19 A.Godhelm: Interesting, I did not know that was the case. Sounds a bit convoluted, but hopefully everyone that was looking for a copy got one :)

>19 A.Godhelm:

That was exactly it for me. I bought both numbered American Gods, then numbered Outlander, but Hellbound Heart is a completely different kind of literature that wasn't something I wanted to buy.

I know this is not the Suntup system and they have very few actual series, but I do wish series came with some kind of purchase right like they do with Curious King. Maybe base the numbers to some degree on a questionnaire asking who wants to continue the series?

>21 SF-72: I concur that if they are doing multiple books in a series, buying the first should convey rights to the next. I understand why they have this kind of hopscotch system, due to the periods of time between sequential titles, but I also think it makes sense for fans of one to be in line for the next.

I grabbed a numbered and a matching paperweight. I’m pretty excited about this one; I’d have grabbed a lettered at about half the price, I think.

January
On Wednesday, January 14th at 9 a.m. PT, I will broadcast live on Facebook. We will announce the first title of the quarter on Thursday, January 15th at 9 a.m. PT. Matching Pre-Orders will begin at this time, going to Lettered and Numbered owners of The Hellbound Heart with a designation of 1-250. If there are any copies of the Lettered or Numbered editions remaining after the Matching Pre-Orders, depending on quantities these copies will be available for purchase either by lottery or directly through the online store beginning on Saturday, January 17th at 9 a.m. PT.

The New Yorker called this book, “the most powerful American novel to appear since The Grapes of Wrath.” The book is available in two states: Lettered and Numbered. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies and the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies. All copies are printed letterpress and signed by the artist, the author of the foreword and the author of the introduction.

March
On Wednesday, March 18th at 9 a.m. PT, I will broadcast live on Facebook. We will announce our second title of the quarter on Thursday, March 19th at 9 a.m. PT, at which time the Artist edition will be available for pre-order. Matching Pre-Orders will begin at this time, going to Lettered and Numbered owners of the title announced on January 15th. If there are any copies of the Lettered or Numbered editions remaining after the Matching Pre-Orders, depending on quantities these copies will be available for purchase either by lottery or directly through the online store beginning on Saturday, March 21st at 9 a.m. PT.

What is better than a Hugo Award winning novella by a Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers Association Grand Master? Two Hugo Award winning novellas by a Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers Association Grand Master! The edition is available in three states: Lettered, Numbered and Artist. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies, the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies and the Artist edition is limited to 500 copies. The Artist edition is printed offset, and it is signed by two artists. The Lettered and Numbered editions are printed letterpress, and are also signed by the two artists, as well as the two authors of the introduction and afterword.

>24 ambyrglow: Native Son might get me back on the Numbered train — if I can snag a copy, at least.

January: This is "Native Son," by Richard Wright.

February: Notably absent from the announcement email.

March:

There are five SFFWA Grand Masters who've won two Hugo Awards for a novella: Robert Heinlein, Fritz Leiber, Poul Anderson, Robert Silverberg, and Connie Willis. Silverberg and Willis are still alive, so it seems unlikely to be them, since none of the states involves an author signature. If I had to guess . . . Heinlein's estate can be a bit stingy with rights, and Leiber's two award-winning novellas make a thematically disjoint pairing. So probably Anderson? But I could be wildly off-base here.

>26 ambyrglow: I find no fault in your logic. I happen to not have read either of the Andersons, but as you say Leiber's two novella Hugos wouldn't hang together in any sense (one is "Ill Met in Lankhmar" and the other isn't a F&GM story), and Heinlein's were both "retro" Hugos, IIRC. Are the two Anderson stories linked in some way?

>27 dhowarth333: Good point about Heinlein's wins being retros. I don't think the Anderson stories are linked, no, but they are both science fiction, which is more than I think you can say for the Leiber's.

>28 ambyrglow: Seems like an odd choice for Suntup, though honestly I'm befuddled by many of their choices of novels to publish. I thought they only did horror until I saw The Last Unicorn announcement, though now I realize that was never really the case. Still, two novellas by Poul Anderson, who is the most obscure of the bunch? I feel like there must be some other possibility I'm missing.

Hmmm. If we expand the list (assuming some sort of mistake in the News release, which admittedly seems unlikely) to those Damon Knight Award winners who only won 1 Hugo for best novella, we could add Le Guin, Bujold, and Haldeman to the possibles. Or, I dunno, Harlan Ellison was nominated million times but never won? I give up, it's probably just QoAaD and The Saturn Game.

EDIT: Ugh... one last speculation. Zelazny won in 1966 for He Who Shapes (novella) and "The Doors of His Face, the Lamps of His Mouth" (novelette). Yes, Door of His Face doesn't qualify, but I've seen a couple other publishers play fast-and-loose the last couple of years with their marketing and the term "novella". For instance, Beagle's The Way Home is marketed as a collection of two novellas. "Two Hearts" is a novelette, though, not a novella.

Just ordered The Outsiders and Stepford Wives from the scratch and dent sale…hopefully they both come with slipcases and not major issues!

Anybody see what was in the Scratch&Dent Sale and already sold out?

>31 bluerx: I saw 3 pages total but things sold out basically immediately. There was a wide set of titles and states with 1 copy, spotted Silence of the Lambs, Replay and Fahrenheit 451 that I remember. They even had "gift editions" from back in the day but I forgot what titles (I Am Legend possibly?).
I got a couple from the hard to sell pile instead, the Matheson collection, Outsiders, Legion. Not a fan of the art for any of those titles but the discounts were substantial.

>29 dhowarth333: Lots of good guesses here. I hope this doesn't give away the game, but these are the works I brought to Paul. Absolutely thrilled to see it coming up soon, and both the artists selected are fantastic.

>29 dhowarth333: It isn't an odd choice at all. Paul actually told me directly that his goal was not stick to horror years ago when the Press first started. He's doing a great job of just releasing great titles consistently.

>34 Undergroundman:

True, I enjoy that there's a much larger range these days. Though it clearly makes it hard to estimate how many copies should be made sometimes.

>34 Undergroundman: I especially appreciate this aspect of Suntup's publications, and I wish more publishers would emulate it.

It feels exactly like publishing what an actual individual would read over the course of time. I have read books from all genres and categories - SF, fantasy, horror, mystery, historical, Victorian, war, poetry, romance, classics and so on. There have been great and average titles from all categories.

While I may skew towards SFF, it's certainly not all I ever read. I get the feeling Paul Suntup simply publishes books he personally enjoyed, without regard for genre. That's why he can publish Outlander in one month and follow up with Zombie the next month. Just like an actual person. It's great imho.

>35 SF-72: Yeah, it's hard to gauge interest in certain books. I really do appreciate his effort though. That's why I really don't mind the wait times for the books.

>37 Undergroundman:

I must admit that I do mind. I hope that this will be reduced - they do seem to be working on it, which is good.

>38 SF-72: I'm wondering if February is another "skip month" in order to let them catch up on production?

>37 Undergroundman: The wait isn’t because they are judging how many books to make. The limitation is already set and the book is well on the way.

>32 A.Godhelm: I grabbed one of the many copies of America Gods. I guess a bunch of people canceled their orders after the allegations?

>41 kreekree: Seems so yes.

Unfortunately I forgot to look at the sale when it opened so I didn‘t have a chance at all the single books. But the discounts in general are really nice.

>38 SF-72:

That's what I also thought might be the case. If so, it's definitely a good idea.

I made my first Suntup purchase today. Matheson's Born of Man and Woman. I am a huge fan of his writing, but missed this one before it sold out. There are 10 copies available, but only through the Scratch and Dent link. Hopefully my copy won't be too damaged.

>44 PartTimeBookAddict:
I ordered one after you did, but now the page says 13 copies remain. As someone posted earlier, the countdown often seems contrived.

>37 Undergroundman:
I mind a lot about the wait time. Credit cards shouldn’t be charged until the item ships like every other product I buy online.

>46 jroger1: Curious King does that too. This isn't exclusive to Suntup.

>45 jroger1: I see that as well. Weird. I was pretty sure it was down to 10. Also, they had 1 copy of Stepford Wives available, but now there are 5 at regular price.

This is my first order with them, so I'm not too sure of their system.

I'm looking forward to Born of Man and Woman. Even to find a regular copy of that book on ebay is about three times the current sale price. I like it when publishers reprint rarer books rather than ones with many printings. It is almost like Folio Society's facsimiles.

>47 Undergroundman: Curious King is still in the start-up phase financially, I expect getting working capital from collectors is necessary. After hitting a run rate they should be increasingly capable of self-funding production and charging closer to delivery. Or should have the choice to do so.

Seems a reasonable inference that Suntup hit that inflection a while ago. I can’t see direct financial data, but have scratched my head over why pre-order duration remains so long.

>47 Undergroundman: They are not comparable at all, for many reasons.

>50 What_What: They don't release monthly like Suntup. So what are these "reasons"?

>49 greenwald1: They should be? How do you know they have the same exact operating costs, and taxes? Wait times for Conversation Tree Press are also long. What's their excuse too? That Solaris took 8 months to show up once I paid.

>52 Undergroundman: I can’t know their financials for sure. But they’ve been around a lot longer than CK or CT, which also suggests the business is overall profitable, and likely for quite a while.

Suntup’s annual deliveries I think (?) have leveled off for many years now, which I would expect relieves much of the working capital stress (what the pre-order money funds).

>53 greenwald1: They ain't doing the volume Suntup is. If they had to release monthly they would also struggle with wait times. Should Suntup be releasing that many titles? I guess that depends how long you are willing to wait. Like I have said before, the wait times don't bother me. If wait times are that much of an issue, boycott Suntup, so they can get their act together according to some of you.

>53 greenwald1: I think of it as a financial issue instead of a production one. I’m not an expert on this industry, but my guess is addressing the former has many solutions without affecting the latter.

Someone who is more intimate with these businesses please correct me if wrong, but actions like incrementally shortening the time between announcement and delivery, or perhaps taking pre-order money for just the numbered/lettered editions would help. Only involves press releases and checks, not the manufacturing process or pace.

Anyway, there are far more knowledgeable people here than me so feel uncomfortable heading further down this rabbit hole.

Just to be clear though, I never advocated anything like a boycott, just thinking through the process which is interesting. And this started as a defense of CK having wait times not an indictment of Suntup.

>55 greenwald1: I never published a book, but know operating a business in California is brutal. Not trying to make excuses for Suntup, but if it was really that simple, why don't other publishers do a better job of pumping out that many fine press titles with better delivery times without holding your money?

>56 Undergroundman: So antagonistic. There are multiple reasons, but it doesn’t sound like your mind is open to considering them fairly anyway.

>56 Undergroundman:
As long as there are book collectors willing to loan money interest-free to publishers, the publishers have no incentive to change their practice. But several years ago I lost $350 or so for a Kickstarter book that was never delivered, and no refund was offered. That was my lesson learned.

>57 What_What: Typical. Can't back up your nonsense.

>58 jroger1: out of curiosity what was it?

>59 Undergroundman: You’re a mean one, Mr. Grinch! I hope you enjoy the rest of the holidays!

>60 chase.donaldson:
Kronecker-Wallis. A set of scientific classics with new translations.

>58 jroger1: The difference with most Kickstarter projects is that there's a (now) long track record of productions to judge future success from. At least for me it makes all the difference. Similarly I can understand if people get cold feet from the recent production issues dragging releases out, but they've at least addressed what they're doing to fix that with release-free months and extra hires.
Additionally these are also real businesses providing a product which is subject to consumer laws, unlike the seeming blank cheque Kickstarters, the details will vary with which country they're based in, but it shouldn't be wild west rules.

>63 A.Godhelm: True, but once in awhile you get situations like Dark Regions Press... I don't see it being much of an issue with small press though. Overall they are decent folks. I can only think of two publishers that are slimey people that I will never deal with again.

>62 jroger1: thanks for sharing. I have been looking at them recently because I loved the designs on their site but saw no social media posts for the last couple years which scared me off. I do think high quality scientific texts are underrepresented in small press. I'm sorry about your experience.

>64 Undergroundman: Certainly they should be treating their reputations as currency, and any underhandedness or mere slipups should be noted. The fail to deliver thread was an excellent idea.

Interestingly my order of the artist edition of No Country For Old Men (ordered September) was delivered today, well ahead of the summer 2026 estimated date. Meanwhile, my April order of "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" is still in production. Timing probably depends on who they are contracting for the printing / binding of each edition? Or maybe just more prework is done on some books before announcement than others?

Rereading the No Country page for the estimated publication date, I see that it was designed and printed by some very well respected people in the fine press world (design by Jason Dewinetz of Greenboathouse Press and printed by Scott Vile of The Ascensius Press). I haven't read the book yet so I'm pretty excited to get started on it. First impression is really good - I like the paper color, the bite is easily noticeable under the fingers but not distracting at all visually, the font and margins make it very readable to me, and the art seems to really fit the story (from what I know of it). Quite pleased with my first in-hand Suntup book and happy I didn't have to wait a year for this one.

>67 blinks112: My copy of No Country is in transit. Hope you enjoy the novel. If you’ve seen the movie, you should have a very good idea of what to expect - it is very faithful to the book, and in fact the book almost reads like a screenplay (which, if I’m not mistaken, is how it was originally conceived.) So you are correct in your assessment that the illustrations do fit the story well.

>67 blinks112:

The delivery date is for the last edition to be finished, so artist editions especially are often shipped out sooner while the more complex editions (production-wise) take longer.

>67 blinks112: Also received my AE of Suntup's No Country for Old Men today.

As usual, initial impression is always the first-class shipping package by Suntup. I don't know any other publisher that tops this (Lividian is usually similar). Elegant solution of springy foam cut to size on all sides. Chances of the book sustaining any damage from typical careless handling in transit is almost zero, except a truly deliberate effort is made to drill through the package.

As for the book itself, my favorite part of this AE is the cloth covered boards. It feels really high-end, and the debossed impressions for the title and art are excellent. This is my best Suntup AE full cloth binding so far.

Typography and paper quality are as expected from Suntup; good typeface, generous margins, nice paper stock. This one is also letterpress printed, although I'm personally quite indifferent about letterpress or offset. I'm much more sensitive to the typography and layout (typeface, type area, margins), paper quality, sharpness and consistency of printing. I'm golden if a book satisfies those, even if it's offset printed.

Interesting approach to tipping in the artwork this time. I think I may have preferred full-size prints bound-in, but this classic style still works out really well because it gives the art pieces a nice frame.

My only 'gripe' is that the slipcase is not fully cloth covered, only the top and bottom bands are cloth. Still a high-quality slipcase though, so it's hardly a problem.

Overall, another excellent delivery by Suntup (as usual). Please keep publishing the AEs/CEs :-)

The American Bookbinders Museum has an exhibition of Suntup works coming up: https://bookbindersmuseum.org/exhibition/a-21st-century-fine-press

That’s fantastic recognition.

Paul, wink twice if you are doing American Psycho before I pick up that Folio limited edition.

>73 NotSoSlimShady: As much as I love American Psycho, I would love to see them do one of Bret's other novels. Glamorama or The Shards would be my personal vote.

>73 NotSoSlimShady: >74 kreekree: I would love to see Suntup publish some fine press Jim Thompson! Arion Press did produce a nice edition of South of Heaven, which is a great work but arguably one of the most un-Thompson like of Thompson's works :)

>74 kreekree: I hated the writing style of American Psycho. I wish some Pynchon titles would get announced, but I doubt that will ever happen.

>76 Undergroundman: Funny you say that. I read Shadow Ticket a couple months back for my first Pynchon and really didn't care for it. Very funny, but ultimately felt pointless.

>77 kreekree: Gonna read Vineland, and then watch the movie.

>74 kreekree: the shards would also be my number 1 pick as well!

>76 Undergroundman: I think The Crying of Lot 49 would be a perfect fine press title, it's foundational and raw. Though I suspect most publishers would default to Gravity's Rainbow.

>80 Shadekeep:

Randomly enough, am currently reading GR. A quarter-way through it strikes me as a novel that would have landed much differently in my 20s than 50s.

V is one of my all-time faves so will stick with it to see what the many threads weave.

Of course I first read that in my 20s while enduring a Profane-like sailor's life.

V withstood a couple later-in-life rereads with limiting cringing, so hoping for the best.

>81 kcshankd: Aye, he's like Salinger or Wallace, an author who scans very differently depending on one's age. Speaking of, would be interested to see a press pick up The Broom of the System, another formative early novel similar to Lot 49. I find I'm often drawn to an author's earliest works, the stuff that lived in their heads for a long time before demanding it be expressed.

I'll say this- Bob Silverberg is in very fragile health, and it is entirely possible that he isn't able physically to sign. I wouldn't count him entirely out.

>29 dhowarth333: I wouldn't entirely rule out Bob Silverberg. His health is really not great, and I am not sure he'd be physically able to sign the copies.

>81 kcshankd: I'm also currently reading GR (and a former sailor). Not sure what to make of it 100 pages in but it's not currently on track to be an all-time fav. I need to try V. sometime given the Naval references (I was stationed in Norfolk). I enjoyed (didn't love) Crying of Lot 49, enjoyed (didn't love) Broom of the System, very much enjoyed The Pale King. I guess I find postmodernism decent-ish but not awe-inspiring. That said, I would likely buy Crying in a fine press edition and I do own Ascensius Press's Consider the Lobster by DFW and that would be one of my first books to save in a fire.

**Standard IMO Alert**

I find some design choices with The Hellbound Heart to be a poor fit:

- The "arcane symbols on the spine and cover boards" intended to "serve as a tactile and visual representation of...the interplay between creation and destruction, and the bridging of worlds" resemble the type of basic native American art one might find in a blanket.

- Stitching them on the numbered edition lends a needlepoint feel, underscoring the blanket feel - a profound mismatch with a focused work that so well distills Clive Barker's particular vein of refined brutality.

- I continue to be amazed at the amount of work Dave McKean finds in the specialty publishing world; only David Hughes rivals him for such profound "it must be intentional, right?" levels of schlocky, found-image chaos. (I consider double-sided dust jackets gimmicky but consider it fortunate that THH's classic edition has one, allowing the owner to tuck McKean's design out of sight).

I feel the need to rant as this design is a personal bibliotragedy (yes, I understand this is not an *actual* tragedy):

- THH is a key work by one of my favorite authors and absolutely ripe for a great production; saying I eagerly awaited Suntup's THH is like saying Tom Brady knows how to hold a football.

- I love almost all of Suntup's design choices (though not quite everything: the LeRoy Neiman-esque dust jacket on the Poe artist edition is a head-scratcher, as were all three editions of Barker's Imajica, the artist edition of which I almost bought before being repelled in the end by the garish orange/purple costume jewelry color scheme - I can't believe Suntup has gone 0/2 on Barker).

- I had someone order the classic edition of THH for me as I was on vacation and away from the phone at the time it went on sale (I should have known the classic edition would last long enough for me to take a look and make an informed decision, but FOMO seized me, and I never dreamed Suntup would hit me with both Navajo blanket *and* Dave "The Ultimate Hack" McKean).

This is not to say I hate the entire production; Reinert's dust jacket illustration well suits the work, and of course the Barker sketches, scans, and illustrations are more than welcome, as is the afterword from the Stokeses.

I'm happy for anyone who enjoy this design and, in particular, very happy for Barker as I don't feel he gets enough attention; I just had to get this out (and see if anyone out there agrees even a little bit).

While I like the designs for the most part, I have to agree about the arcane symbols. They don't really invoke the story for me at all. I'm ok with how they look on the spine, but the box is just baffling.
And yeah, the artist cover is, ahem, not my bag.

>85 LBShoreBook:

I think you would enjoy V very much.

>86 St._Troy: If you squint you can kinda sorta see the puzzle box configurations on that box (made most obvious by the design on the central circle matching the lament configuration circle of the movies). At least I think that's what it's going for.

I gotta stick up for the double sided dustjackets though, I think it's the perfect compromise between iconic old covers people love and new ones that match whatever aesthetic they're going for with the edition in question, and the one you don't want is just hidden.

>86 St._Troy: Fair dues, though my own take on the Numbered is decidedly more positive. I've been champing at the bit for this book and I had some concerns given how other titles were handled, but this one turned out great at each tier in my estimation. I grabbed both the Numbered and the Classic. On the Numbered I like the "sacred geometry" approach of the box, but that's kind of my jam anyway. As >89 A.Godhelm: points out, the shapes are reminiscent of the Lament Configuration. But what I really like about it is the "chains and hooks in flesh" motif of the covers. About the only way they could have improved that would have been to bind it in human skin. 😉

And complete agreement on the generic cut-up work of McKean. He has turned out yet another piece that could be used for literally anything, because it seems to convey almost nothing. Very happy I can flip it around and show off the original paperback cover on my Classic copy. That may be a slightly dated piece of art in terms of technique, but it has brilliant economy in conveying multiple layers of the story in one image. Something the new cover lacks in every regard.

My copy of Born of Man and Woman arrived today from the Scratch and Dent sale and it would take a veteran eagle-eyed buyer to tell if anything was wrong with it. It looks basically brand new. A very spiffy book and slipcase.

I prefer the Hicks-Jenkins art and it'll stay in the slipcase anyway, but do Suntup collectors reverse these dust jackets regularly? Does it add creasing?

What's next? I haven't been keeping up, but for anyone that has, after a very successful pre-order for Hellbound Heart, anyone know what the next editions will be? Or if not announced, what are possibilities based on any hints/teasers?

>92 astropi: I believe Native Son is this month. Not sure about March.

Really impressed by this edition of Native Son. A lot of attention to detail in the design.

Same. Also one of those formative books I read in school so looking forward to this one.

Designed by Jason Dewinetz and printed by Scott Vile, it's almost worth getting on that pedigree alone.

I didn't get the pre-buyer email even though I bought the numbered Hellbound, so I'm guessing my allocation was not in the stipulated range. (I did get the Numbered quite late when less than 40 remained.)

Looks amazing. Only Numbered and Lettered this time around, so likely will sell out insanely quickly --

https://suntup.press/native-son/

>96 Shadekeep: An exceptional pedigree and one that almost tempts me…

Surprisingly slow sales on the title. I wonder if Suntup has become so associated with horror and sci-fi that other readers don't even check any more. Other titles that should have sold out in a flash, like Outlander and The Outsiders, lingered on as well. As of this writing still 66 Numbered remain.

On a more positive note, my copy of The Black Phone arrived today, so hurrah!

>99 Shadekeep: You are probably correct. These books are not particularly cheap and for international customers slap on another 25% with shipping and customs. People get selective over time, combined with the long fulfillment times it’s getting a bit of a proposition. Congrats on your Black Phone!

>99 Shadekeep: I will say that with both Native Son and The Outsiders, they're both very US centric with a large focus on class and race. The content itself may not appeal to many international customers.

I think the binding for Native Son looks great, but I wouldn't buy it (even if i had the money) because I'd never even think of taking it off the shelf.

>98 ChestnutPress: No Country for Old Men was also designed by Jason and printed by Scott :)

>101 AstulTheShepherd: That's a fair point, though I would have expected them to still do better with a local audience than they did. Especially as The Outsiders is also signed by the author, a further rarity for the title.

>102 Nightcrawl: That would be more my thing.

>99 Shadekeep: That's an excellent point. I suspect to some degree The Outsiders might be a bit of an "older generational" work which might not interest many younger readers -- which is very unfortunate because The Outsiders is a classic for good reasons and it really has universal appeal. But again, it was published in 1967 and the movie was released in 1983, so the book is nearly 60 years old! I know, not old by literature standards. Personally, I think the book is magnificent -- I just checked and it looks like there are two Numbered copies left. But then again, nothing wrong with having some inventory in stock, I'm sure sooner or later it will sell out.

>105 astropi: So we will never see To Kill a Mockingbird Bird? Kind of giving up hope of titles similar to that being released now. Did I buy Native Son? No, I do not like the design. I love the illustrations though, and would have purchased an AE if it were available.

>106 Undergroundman: It was announced in 2024 and is sold out.
https://suntup.press/to-kill-a-mockingbird/
Currently the Numbered and AE are in production and have not yet shipped. Did you miss out?

>107 astropi: Whoops. LOL

Guess I did miss out, or forgot about it. Nevermind.

>107 astropi: 2 years is a hell of a wait but I'm still excited about it. That Mohawk Via Laid and letterpress for the AE was a nice deal, same specs the Life of Pi AE had and it's wonderful, so tactile.

>99 Shadekeep: unfortunately Native Son has a lot of appeal for me but I stick to the AE tier so was disappointed when there was only the numbered and lettered options!

>110 PJ-Reads: Aye, I think this one would have benefited from an AE edition. But possibly the choice to make a limited release is also due to Suntup's attempt to create a more manageable and timely release pipeline.

I wonder what they'll do with prices now they're trying to cut pre-orders. Or whether they'll still do pre-orders but just a month or so in advance, instead of almost a year.

I ordered the Numbered edition of Native Son. But soon after the Greenland affair came back and there could be a tariff war between UE and USA.
Only few hours after I expressed my concern to Paul (disruption of postal service, increase in import tax, etc..), but no way to cancel the order so freshly made!

So all EU (and England) readers should be careful before ordering stuff from US, especially when the delivery is one year ahead!

>113 Maretzo: On behalf of most Americans, I apologize. I assure you the vast majority of us think this whole tariff issue is way out of control --
https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/08/14/how-americans-view-the-trump-adm...
I also rather wish there was an AE, but I understand, perhaps this is to keep everything moving more smoothly as @Shadekeep noted, or maybe it was a supply and demand issue. But, I will say, the Numbered is a beautiful book.

>113 Maretzo: Is this no longer the policy?

"Numbered, Lettered and Roman Numeral editions: Orders may only be cancelled within 14 days after placing your order."

>113 Maretzo:
I’ve said it before, but it is even more applicable in this age of tariff wars: never pay for anything before it ships. Book publishers are no exception.

>113 Maretzo: "but no way to cancel the order so freshly made!" I'd follow up on this - he may have just meant he couldn't process a refund yet, given you're well within his normal cancellation window.

>116 jroger1: Sadly that doesn't really work, seeing as to have the slightest whiff of a chance to get what you'd like, you need to pre-order.

Finally Paul agreed to cancel my order ! Problem solved!

Fortunately, there are several excellent canadian and british Publishers..

>118 AstulTheShepherd:
I guess I don’t want things that badly. There are always far more wonderful books currently available than I would ever have time to read.

Pre-ordering is different from pre-paying. I can pre-order from Amazon, but they don’t charge me until it ships.

>120 jroger1: Okay, but amazon's revenue for 2025 was around $700 billion! I'm not sure what Suntup's revenue was, in the few millions likely, but far far removed from amazon. So amazon has the luxury of not charging until the item is shipped, but Suntup would quickly go bankrupt without collecting on pre-orders so it's not a fair comparison. Every "fine press" book publisher I know of whether it's Suntup, Curious King, Folio, CTP, etc. collect once you order or pre-order the book. Suntup is trying to give people a bit of incentive for pre-ordering -- for Native Son you do get an 8% discount over the published price which is certainly not nothing. I know it can be frustrating, I'm still waiting for Of Mice and Men, but again, I know this can happen and the quality for me certainly offsets the wait.

>121 astropi:
Okay, if not Amazon, try Folio Society or Easton Press or Library of America. A small publisher will never grow unless it plays fair with its customers.

>122 jroger1: Easton Press typically doesn't have the books on hand when you order them either.

I'm happy to see plenty of presses moving towards waiting until books are ready to take orders, but I also know many of my favorite books never would have come to be without the support of collectors earlier on in the publication process.

Business isn't all there is to it.

>122 jroger1: What exactly is not fair with paying on pre-orders, especially when you get a discount for pre-ordering? Easton Press (which is owned by MBI inc. so you can't really call them a "small publisher") aside, as I noted above Curious King, CTP, and I believe Folio as well (someone correct me if I'm wrong) charge you on pre-orders. I don't think it's fair to single out Suntup here.

I am priced out of fine press purchases but considering that pre-orders are needed to finance labor and materials make sense. Especially considering that mass-market books have the backing of larger corporations for most publishers or are sent out in print runs/ print on demand for some smaller mass-market offset presses where that labor is done in factories with scales of economy to pay on the front end when the books are published and then recoup because they are selling thousands of other books ahead of time to help finance the book itself versus financing runs of 600 or less with hand-made materials and human intensive labor, with somewhere between 1-3 books per year depending on price.

While I certainly don't have the funds to splurge on upcoming Lyra Carmilla, (however tempting) paying ahead of time is sounds pretty reasonable to me as it's basically made as a commission at the scale Lyra operates to pay the illustrator, book binder, typesetters labor etc. that a fine press operation just doesn't have around a liquid assets.

>123 NathanOv:
Easton Press doesn’t keep an inventory in their office, but neither does it charge the customer until the book ships.

>124 astropi:
I wasn’t using Easton Press as an example of a small press. To the contrary, I was using it as an example of a small business that grew larger because they did things right. For example, a customer can return a book for a full refund if they are dissatisfied for any reason within 30 days of receipt.

>125 amr102:
I don’t see the difference between a small publisher and any other kind of small business. All require supplies, equipment, office/inventory space, knowledge or training about the business, labor, and a small amount of operating capital. If they don’t have these basics, they aren’t prepared to run a successful business. Of course, if they can get enough customers who are willing to take a chance, they might get their investment back.

How did the LEC operate? Did they used to take preorders or did they only take money and ship on completion? I know they produced fairly large limitations.

There's plenty of examples of modern small presses that don't do preorders. For example, Centipede only opens orders when the book is ready to ship. I seem to remember that NRP is also moving in this direction.

>127 LT79-1: They worked much the same as Arion, I believe. You "subscribe" to receive a year's worth of books. Paying up front.

Happy to be corrected on that though.

>129 AstulTheShepherd: in some ways the subscribe model is worse than the pay up front for one book model as you end up with books you don't particularly want with the subscription model.

>130 LT79-1: Yep, I agree. Especially with something like Arion where the books are so expensive.

But I can see it from the business's side it's great, as they have half their yearly business guaranteed by the end of Q1.

>128 filox: This is largely true, but occasionally CP does preorders (Frankenstein, for instance).

>128 filox: You say "plenty" but only quoted one publisher (Centipede Press), and they've been in the business for 20 years. >122 jroger1: Below mentions the Folio Society, which has been around for 75 years. Are there any other small businesses that have been around for let's say 5 years and is only putting books up for sale when they're ready to be shipped?

>122 jroger1: What's "unfair" about clearly communicating the terms of the sale? Suntup has grown massively with this model, and nobody's been scammed. But it is about time they matured as a business and reduce their pre-order to delivery date, and they're on the verge of doing so likely.

>126 jroger1: "I don’t see the difference between a small publisher and any other kind of small business. All require supplies, equipment, office/inventory space, knowledge or training about the business, labor, and a small amount of operating capital. If they don’t have these basics, they aren’t prepared to run a successful business. Of course, if they can get enough customers who are willing to take a chance, they might get their investment back."

The difference is it doesn't take four years to prepare the tacos for a food truck.

>133 What_What: Yeah i think people who don't work/ frequent the artist/ hand-made/ artisan crafts tend to underestimate the labor and skill needed to provide the art and thus really devalue the work while still wanting the work. Like it's fine if one is not personally a fan of pre-ordering and paying upfront, but that payment pays for the artist's supplies and ability to eat while making the special, limited art for the customer. It is actually really common commission wise to pay all or part of it upfront to compensate for labor ahead of time. I'm sure most people don't expect to pay everything at the end for a custum wedding cake I don't see why art is any different. Or in this case fine press books which operate near commission-like via backer-funding.

Also again, mass market books are produced in factories where the human labor is greatly reduced. There is a conversation about labor conditions in such factories but it's not really an apt comparison in terms of production.

>134 amr102: Very nice analogy and absolutely correct. Again, publishers like Suntup don't technically require you to pre-order, you can always wait but of course you do risk the book selling out -- which happens very often, so clearly most people don't mind pre-ordering.

Also, a bit amusing, Suntup is now about to start shipping Of Mice and Men :)
It will 100% be worth the wait I am certain!

>134 amr102: add in contractors, builders, designers, architects, furniture builders, and the craftsmen who built my bookshelve amongst many others who want money up front before even scheduling work. Most of those dont take years to produce a product, but some do.

>99 Shadekeep: very much horror

When it comes to SF I think there’s more of a reputation for not publishing it. It’s largely ignored.

>137 greenwald1: Ah, but wait until March!

(But yes, certainly less of it than horror to date.)

>135 astropi: I've already had my copy since early December. Maybe a difference in the editions? Mine is the AE.

>139 AstulTheShepherd: Yes, the Lettered and AE were shipped back in November. The Numbered is shipping now. It looks like the book that is the most behind is the Lettered Edgar Allan Poe. I'm sure it's frustrating to Suntup just as much or more so than to the patrons --
https://suntup.press/status-updates/

I'm jazzed that the Gormenghast trilogy is due out by mid-year. Hope the schedule holds for that one.

>141 Shadekeep: That's near the top of my "I-can't-believe-I've-never-read-this" pile of books.

>142 Shotcaller: same for me. I truly love the idea & even the writing but, whenever I attempt a go at it - I putter out around page 70 - losing my attention somewhere in the middle of his highly intricate descriptions of supreme depth concerning stairwell trim & block masonry. Part of the charm, but hard to hold my interest. I found Piranesi, written in a similar but more conventional style to be much more approachable.

Still, the lettered version of this was quite tempting. The illustrations combined with the vellum binding hit all my marks.

I only recently started reading Gormenghast and just finished the second book today, I am absolutely in love with it! I got the current Folio Society standard edition and I think its quite wonderful with over 140 illustrations by Dave McKean across the trilogy beautifully and creatively integrated into the text. I think the external design of the standard edition is also more handsome than that of the limited edition from which its derived even if the materials are less premium. Nevertheless I do feel quite jealous of those of you who managed to grab the Suntup editions!

The Lettered as mentioned above is particularly gorgeous.

>143 dotman: I'm with you. And I'm convinced the problem's me, not Peake. Someday I'll scale that mountain.

>145 Shotcaller: I will say that Gormenghast is one of those works it helps to be in a certain mood for. Hodgson's The Night Land is another such book - it can feel like a slog or it can fly along on gossamer wings, depending on one's state of mind.

>146 Shadekeep:

Hodgson's The Night Land is another such book

I just looked up the synopsis for The Night Land and its definitely going on my to read list! Thanks for mentioning it.

>145 Shotcaller: I got through Peake only by switching to audio and letting the lovely prose roll over me that way. Helps with E.R. Edison, too.

>147 zorg2099: A pleasure! I'm a keen fan of Hodgson in all his works.

Slightly off topic but has anyone read Alfred Kubin's The Other Side? I never hear it mentioned in these circles

>148 ambyrglow: Thanks! May need to try that.

>150 LT79-1: I have not, surprisingly, since it seems right up my street. Being originally a German novel may be partly to blame, as I may not have encountered it in translation, though it's come out from Penguin in English so it shouldn't have escaped me. I'll have to track down a copy, cheers!

>152 Shadekeep: you seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of these kinds of books so I'm surprised. Give it a whirl and tell me what you think!

>153 LT79-1: Kind of you to say, but there are definitely lacunae. I am familiar with Meyrink yet not Kubin, which is a rather curious gap.

I'm a huge fan of Hodgson and calling The Night Land a slog is not entirely wrong. It certainly gets that way in many places, and it's a huge work. So large, that Hodgson condensed it to the arguably much more manageable and less meandering work -- "The Dream of X" --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_X

Having read The Night Land, I would honestly recommend anyone that is interested to first read The Dream of X and then if you want you can tackle The Night Land which is 10 times as long.

>155 astropi: Agreed, The Dream of X is much more manageable on a first go. And there is a version with rather splendid "prog rock era" illustrations, too.

I'd say The Boats of the 'Glen Carrig' is a great first novel for new Hodgson readers, as it is both episodic and shows off his mastery of nautical horror.

The counter has been removed from Native Son, last I saw it was at 65. The good news is I'll eventually be able to acquire a copy, the bad news is there is even less incentive for Suntup to deviate from churning out horror titles.

>157 kcshankd: I wouldn't count on this affecting the chosen titles much. If you look at the trend, while Suntup Editions started with several horror novels in a row, that hasn't been the case for a long time. I didn't count every year, but in 2025, 2 out of 12 books were horror, and in 2020, I think it was 3 or 4 out of 16. I don't know Paul, but he seems to be a person of principle who will continue with books he feels are important and adjust the runs according to his estimate of demand.

>158 SDB2012:

I hope so!

>157 kcshankd: I mean, NCFOM was a smash hit. There's a lot of reasons why a certain title will or won't sell. Mice and Men didn't sell but To Kill A Mockingbird did. Both are classics with lots of options. Is it the divisive artwork? More people care about one title over another? Production differences?
Some of the lingering titles are also horror; Amityville Horror, Hannibal Rising, Zombie, Ratman's Notebooks, Born of Man and Woman (arguably?). Kin was out there a long time too. Even Hellbound Heart has copies left (much larger limitation aside).

>158 SDB2012: Agree with this, the variety speaks to personal interest and makes the selection and stylings better I think.

>160 A.Godhelm: Of Mice and Men is sold out -- it may have taken a minute for the AE (500 copies) to sell out, but it did!

Interesting update on the Suntup Press William Morris publication. I am not a Suntup collector at all (I have 1-2 AEs of a few books that interest me, may or may not keep them). This intrigues me given the partnership with Taller Martin Pescador and Bradley Hutchinson.

>162 LBShoreBook: Intrigued as well. Very much looking forward to more details.

I'm roundly kicking myself that I didn't plan for attending CODEX, as it also means I'll miss the ABM Suntup event and this release of the Morris book. A serious failure to plan ahead on my part. Hoping to snag the Morris book on public offering at least.

The Morris sounds interesting. It will be interesting to see the details.

Another example of why you shouldn't blindly trust AI.

>166 A.Nobody: "Mice and Tails" by John Steinbeck, soon to be an animated film by Don Bluth Studios.

>166 A.Nobody:

Signed by the author. All the AI accolades came true, it even invented a time machine for this ebay seller!

Collectible Book Vault has added some photos of the William Morris book to its (CBV's) Instagram page.

Some photos of the Codex table + ABM exhibit: https://suntup.press/news/report-back-highlights-from-the-american-bookbinders-m...

Anouncement: https://suntup.press/selections-from-the-poems-of-william-morris/
Orders will open tomorrow, Tuesday, February 17, 2026 at 1:00 PM Pacific.

>171 tkellici: This looks like a phenomenal production - typography, printing, design all appear excellent.

The craft, materials, size and substance of the work all seem to justify the price point, though it's quite steep for only having a day's notice. I hope copies remain for a bit.

>172 NathanOv: I really like my copy, if there's any photos or questions that would help you make up your mind mind let me know.

>173 ensuen: Would you mind sharing a photo of the table of contents, if there is one?

>174 MyrddinWyllt: here:

On the one hand, I'm really drawn to this, on the other hand that's a steep price, and at one day's warning. I'm not sure what I'll do yet.

>175 ensuen: Thank you!

Beautiful book! Sadly, beyond my price-point, but I hope everyone that wants one has a chance to get it.

>172 NathanOv: With Griffin's new release at No Reply, it's gonna be an expensive February...

>179 tkellici: wait, which new NR release is this?? Off topic for this thread, I know, but has that been announced?

>180 kyleniemeyer: It was announced for the Collectors Circle. Should be announced soon for everyone else.

The paper texture looks beautiful but it feels like it's wrestling with the typography and creating slight illegibility. I'm guessing this is a homage to the way Morris did things and it's just the nature of this quality of paper but from the pictures at least it trips my eyes a little.

>182 LT79-1: I agree, maybe the text needed to be a point or two larger?

>175 ensuen: Thanks, it does look quite good, and I'm glad Paul was able to realise this labour of love. Sadly outside my budget at this time, but no doubt will be treasured by those who do obtain it.

>182 LT79-1: For what it is worth: having been fortunate enough to examine the book in person, it was not my impression that there was any problem with legibility, or any conflict between typography and paper texture. Perhaps what you are describing is a product of how the above photograph was taken, or perhaps we just have different sensibilities. Just one more view, for those still on the fence.

>185 P.Casimir: I think when you get paper quality like this, it's something you have to experience. I'd probably have a totally different perception if it was in my hand.

Edit: I just looked at the pictures on the Deluxe state and it looks much clearer. It must be just the way the photos are taken at certain angles.

58 of the standard Morris available - good luck all who desire a copy

Is the binding the only difference between the standard and deluxe Morris?

Struggled with this one - I absolutely love the production value, not sure I would spend this much for Morris poems though.

>188 SDB2012: basically yeah - talking with the team at codex it seemed like some preferred the paper binding too. Although if the prices were closer it would have been a harder choice to make for me

>189 LBShoreBook: same here! Seems a gorgeous production of poetry I don’t feel a strong connection with…

>191 BorisG: That's true for me, too. If Morris had only been a poet, would these beautiful editions exist? It seems to me to be unlikely.

Anyone know if there been any updates on the 2 delayed numbered titles that were re-estimated for February? I think those were Mockingbird + Born of Man and Woman.

>192 Shotcaller: to be fair, Morris was a serious if minor poet, and if you have sympathy for pre-raphelite verse at its best, his is quite good - and I’d say quite a bit more complex than it can seem. Especially if we compare his poetry with many of the writers lucky enough to receive fine press treatment, Morris does not come off badly at all. He was deeply acquainted with practically all the major writing traditions, and yet distinctly himself. I think the Earthly paradise in particular is probably the last significant work in the Spenserian tradition, but with a warmth and “modernity”, and more directly human.

>194 sanvito: Thanks for these thoughts. You've inspired me to read "The Earthly Paradise."

>195 Shotcaller: For a more informed judgement, here is Bloom:

“Morris derives from a whole series of major 19th-c. poets—Keats, Tennyson, Browning, and Rossetti—but his directness, detachment in depicting savagery, and ability to convey swiftly the effect of violent action are entirely his own, and still unique in the language . . . . Medieval poems by Morris are utterly unlike Tennyson’s; the blood shed in them is not word painting, and the freedom from intrusive moral judgments is absolute. Morris is one of the very few poets ever who can be criticized for not being ambitious enough. His poems demonstrate more genius than he was willing to concentrate. If his interests had been fewer, his poetry would have sprawled less, and meant more, but he valued his other enterprises at least as much as he cared for his poetry.”

Artist edition of Treasure Island arrived today.
This is my first Suntup book.

On first lookover I am quite pleased.

Next up for me The Murder of Roger Ackroyd

>197 sdawson: Mine arrived just now, the prints are really nice.

Do the teaser pictures in the latest newsletter give anyone useful hints at what stories they might be about?

>199 SF-72: I think probably they're playing a bit loose with the term "novella," and it's Vance, who won Best Short Fiction in 1963 for "The Dragon Masters" and in 1967 won Best Novelette for "The Last Castle." "Best Novella" wasn't added to the Hugo categories until 1968, but "Dragon Masters" and "Last Castle" are both word counts that we'd call novellas today, and the illustrations fit.

>200 ambyrglow:

Thank you, that certainly seems to fit.

New Suntup release (Jack Vance) looks fantastic. Dragon Masters / The Last Castle

>202 NotSoSlimShady: agreed, in for the artist edition! The dos-à-dos binding on the lettered is really clever. That is a special book

I've not read Jack Vance but I decided to take a chance on the artist edition.

So glad to see this one launch! And happy that Paul went with the dos-à-dos binding, really does bring back the halcyon days of discovering these in paperback form. The artwork turned out splendidly too. Grabbed an AE but also hoping to land a higher tier one as well.

>204 zorg2099: same, and these works appear practically unknown on Goodreads. But as awards winners and for the presentation alone, I am willing to take the chance on the AE

>206 PJ-Reads: As a Tolkien fan, I'm also quite familiar with Ted Nasmith's art so that was another point in favour of taking a chance for me.

I'm not a Vance enthusiast, so I won't be buying this, but that Lettered dos-à-dos binding is so cool.

I really like the leather binding with the blind stamped line-art illustrations on the numbered, so that's what I grabbed :)

>209 Dr.Fiddy: The Numbered is what I'm hoping to land, though the Lettered is awfully groovy with its binding approach!

>210 Shadekeep: Hopefully, you manage to get a numbered on Saturday!

I'll just out myself as a pleb by calling it a back-to-back binding, but it is indeed very cool. FS did it for Scanner Darkly/DADoES by PKD but I haven't seen much of it and it's such a neat way to present shorter works together.
Interesting note on the AE: The Artist edition is complete and should ship in April, 2026. Maybe it's an anomaly or the extra work on bringing down the lead times will start to get titles out the door a lot faster. I know several commenters have noted they refuse to buy something with year long wait times, so this should be a good sign.

>211 Dr.Fiddy: Thanks, and I hope you enjoy the edition when it arrives!

>212 A.Godhelm: Two factors at play, the first is of course that Suntup begins working on books years before they are announced. Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, since it's printed offset it is much more quickly completed. I don't blame people for not wanting to wait a year or more, but I know Suntup will deliver so I'm okay waiting longer for a work of art :)

I will add that I picked up an AE and will try to get a numbered because I've read both and I think they're great. They're "short stories" so they may not be as "deep" as a full novel, but the core idea of both stories are interestingly explored. The numbered for "Native Son" still has availability so it doesn't seem possible for all the rights to be taken so there should be a decent chance of having a shot at a numbered.

The AE is fully sold out. Pretty great showing, considering often there is a first buying wave and then about 60-80 copies stick around for a while. Glad this one was a success, and I suspect the sooner delivery may have helped as well.

Numbered and Lettered are live for public purchase now.

Latest announcement from Paul is out (my guesses will follow):

On Wednesday, April 22nd at 9 a.m. PT, I will broadcast live on Facebook. We will announce the first title of the quarter on Thursday, April 23rd at 9 a.m. PT. Matching Pre-Orders will begin at this time, going to Lettered and Numbered owners of The Last Castle & The Dragon Masters. If there are any copies of the Lettered or Numbered editions remaining after the Matching Pre-Orders, depending on quantities these copies will be available for purchase either by lottery or directly through the online store beginning on Saturday, April 25th at 9 a.m. PT.

November 2, 1938 is where the story begins (and ends) for our protagonist. The book is available in two states: Lettered and Numbered. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies and the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies. All copies are signed by the artist, the author of the introduction and the author of the afterword.
May

On Wednesday, May 20th at 9 a.m. PT, I will broadcast live on Facebook. We will announce our second title of the quarter on Thursday, May 21st at 9 a.m. PT, at which time the Artist edition will be available for pre-order. Matching Pre-Orders will begin at this time, going to Lettered and Numbered owners of the title announced on April 23rd. If there are any copies of the Lettered or Numbered editions remaining after the Matching Pre-Orders, depending on quantities these copies will be available for purchase either by lottery or directly through the online store beginning on Saturday, May 23rd at 9 a.m. PT.

While this author was known for vivid visions and nightmarish depictions, this famous story featured a hue beyond description. The edition is available in three states: Lettered, Numbered and Artist. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies, the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies and the Artist edition is limited to 500 copies. All copies are printed letterpress and signed by the artist. The Lettered and Numbered editions are also signed by the author of the introduction.
June

On Wednesday, June 17th at 9 a.m. PT, I will broadcast live on Facebook. We will announce our final title of the quarter on Thursday, June 18th at 9 a.m. PT. Matching Pre-Orders will begin at this time, going to Lettered and Numbered owners of the title announced on May 21st. If there are any copies of the Lettered or Numbered editions remaining after the Matching Pre-Orders, depending on quantities these copies will be available for purchase either by lottery or directly through the online store beginning on Saturday, June 20th at 9 a.m. PT.

The title of this novel, written by a Grand Master of the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America, was inspired by the writings of Chuang Tzu. The edition is available in two states: Lettered and Numbered. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies and the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies. All copies are printed letterpress and signed by the artist. The Lettered and Numbered editions are also signed by the author of the foreword.

The new announcement schedule by Suntup has been sent around. Can anyone guess what the titles are? I did some googling and came up with:
Under the Volcano by Malcolm Lowry
The colour out of space by H. P. Lovecraft
The Lathe of Heaven by Ursula K. Le Guin
I could be wrong, though, I don't know any of these myself.

April book: I'm guessing Under the Volcano, by Malcolm Lowry. Bit of a deep cut, but that explains the limited number of copies, I guess.

May book: This sounds like The Colour Out of space by H.P. Lovecraft, though that's awfully short for a stand-alone book.

June book: This is The Lathe of Heaven by Ursula K. Le Guin and the fact that there's no Artist's edition is killing me.

>218 ambyrglow: These are unusually specific clues! I think all three are good choices that will be well-received by the collecting community. But I wish there were more Artist Editions!

>220 ambyrglow: Yes, I do wonder if we're missing something about May--it does seem too short.

>219 SF-72: I hope these are correct, I can get behind all three. I did think Colour as the middle title when I read the clues, but hadn't yet made guesses for the others. Those are promising ones indeed.

>221 JacobHolt:

Just one artist edition really isn't good with regard to price, but luckily for me I'm not that keen on those titles anyway. Suntup has rarely met my taste lately, but that's absolutely okay, to each their own.

>219 SF-72: I would absolutely love it if you're right about the Lathe of Heaven, I was just saying recently in some thread or other how its one of the more notable titles of hers that hasn't had quality press or fine press treatment.

The title of the book is based on a direct quote by Chuang Tzu and Le Guin herself was a Taoist and certainly broadly considered a master of Sci-Fi and Fantasy. It seems fairly high confidence I think.

Recent Suntup sales have not been snapped up in seconds like Curious King etc but I am definitely feeling a bit anxious about the fact there is no artists edition to fallback on and the numbered print run is only 250 rather than the 350 they sometimes do...

>225 zorg2099: feeling the same way about getting my hands on the Colour Out of Space lettered. I’d orefer not having to buy Under the Volcano just for the rights.

It's not just a matter of being broadly considered a master; it's a formal award. You can see all the Grand Masters here: https://www.sfadb.com/SFWA_Grand_Master_Award

Nice to note that the email also states "printing has just completed on all three", which means they should be further along the pipeline than books in past. Sounds like things are ramping up, and hopefully Gormenghast will finish moving through the process quicker now too.

If the three guesses here are correct then I might have to get the Numbered edition of Under the Volcano just to ensure rights on The Colour Out of Space and The Lathe of Heaven. Not that I mind too much, it's bound to be a fine version of the book. The film is great too, and rightfully part of the Criterion collection.

The Colour Out of Space seems pretty obvious, not sure if it can even be anything else? It is a beautiful story but as others have noted much shorter than what you typically get from Suntup. I'm surprised there's an AE if this truly is COOS, but then again, it is Lovecraft which today is about as main stream as it gets (I wonder what ol' HP would have said if he knew how popular he would become :)

For those wondering about the length of The Colour Out of Space, it apparently has a word count of 12,457 (source). The Black Phone, which Suntup also did, seems to have a word count of 7,250 (source). So it shouldn't be a problem.

And remember, Lovecraft words often have more syllables than regular words. 😄

>230 Shadekeep: And remember, Lovecraft words often have more syllables than regular words.
:)

>231 astropi: Best not to ask what he named the cat though.

>232 zorg2099: Yeah, Lovecraft by today's standards is undeniably a bigot. People argue "is it fair to view others by today's lens?" and that is of course up to the reader. I personally still enjoy Lovecraft although of course I think it's important to keep these things in mind and I don't feel it's fair to try and "apologize" for his views.
https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Racism_in_the_Works_of_H.P._Lovecraft
S. T. Joshi, one of the foremost Lovecraft scholars, notes that "There is no denying the reality of Lovecraft's racism, nor can it merely be passed off as 'typical of his time,' for it appears that Lovecraft expressed his views more pronouncedly (although usually not for publication) than many others of his era. It is also foolish to deny that racism enters into his fiction."
It is interesting that although he held antisemitic views, he married Sonia Greene who was Jewish. And in fact he called Hitler a "clown" but admired his "ideals" --
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/my-favorite-anti-semite...
Complex person? Maybe, but again I would never defend his bigotry. Nor would I lie and say I don't enjoy his work. When I was a kid I also loved Roald Dahl, but today I really just can't stand reading any of his works because of his bigotry. Dahl was racist, antisemitic, and misogynistic. And, he seemed proud of all of that --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roald_Dahl_revision_controversy
And of course Dahl who died in 1990 saw the horrors of the Holocaust and lived through the Civil Rights Movement and much more. In my mind, he is much worse than Lovecraft.

>233 astropi: Oh yeah I do agree that the relationship readers have with the views of writers can be complex especially of those of a different but not too distant era (though as noted he seemed more outspoken than most of his immediate community was in general) and readers deal with it differently and perhaps on a case by case basis which is perfectly fair.

I did read a little of his work quite a long while back though I doubt he would have considered me quite entirely human. And I have been thinking about taking a broader look at Weird Fiction in general recently so I'm open to the idea of reading some more of his work as part of that exploration.

I just couldn't help the snarky quip when you posted a cat in a Lovecraft context though!

Very excited about Under the Volcano. I will certainly be ordering.

>234 zorg2099: I HIGHLY recommend you get the Conversation Tree Press "The House on the Borderland by William Hope Hodgson" it is the most beautiful Weird Tales book I have ever seen, and WHH is one of the greatest writers of the genre. House On the Borderland is also one of my favorite works. Only problem is that both the deluxe and standard are sold out. However, well worth finding.

https://conversationtreepress.com/collections/all/products/weird-house-borderlan...

>236 astropi: CTP’s Weird. series will be monumental. #2 is due to be shipped next month, and copies of two states are still available on the press’s site.

>236 astropi: If you like the deluxe editions, they can be found well below retail on the secondary. Very nice looking editions!

>236 astropi: Yup I'm planning on grabbing the Deluxe (probably although standard is also available) of Cold Print and I'll look for House on the Borderland at some point too. Only held off so far since Cold Print is selling slowly and there's plenty of stock for the moment and I'm juggling my book budget between all the interesting stuff from various presses!

Regarding the CTP back catalogue though I missed out on Treasure Island, I absolutely love their wooden boards deluxe and that will be my initial priority. I far prefer the more whimsical approach to design on that one and the double column layout to Suntups admittedly very nice edition of Treasure Island.

A cool opportunity to learn more about the design process at Suntup:

Do you wonder how fine presses design each book? Drawing from a selection of Suntup Editions publications as case studies, Paul Suntup and Art Director Rebecca Dornsife will discuss how a book design moves from early concepts to a finished edition. They’ll discuss how materials, binding structures, binding designs and illustrations are chosen, and how ideas evolve through testing and revision.

Gain a practical understanding of how a book moves from concept to finished edition and learn how key design and binding decisions are made along the way. See how Suntup Editions’ multiple states, or bindings for the same text, are developed with distinct design intentions. You’ll see examples of design concepts originating from the text and evolving through mock-ups, and prototypes, and understand the considerations for choosing materials and binding structures for each edition.

Join us for a exciting peek into fine press publishing—from ideation to finished product.

SATURDAY APRIL4, 11AM PDT

Speakers:

Paul Suntup is the founder and publisher of Suntup Editions, where he oversees the overall design vision and editorial direction for each publication. He is responsible for shaping the concept of each edition, including decisions around illustration, materials, and binding approach, and works in collaboration with the press’s art director and production team to guide projects from concept to finished book.

Rebecca Dornsife is the Art Director at Suntup Editions, where she is responsible for selecting artists and directing the visual development of each publication. She works directly with artists while overseeing illustration and binding design concepts and manages the artistic collaboration process from early concepts through production.

https://bookbindersmuseum.org/event/experiencing-editions/?event_date=2026-04-04

If anyone is still interested in the now out of stock Artist's Edition of the Vance book, Subterranean Press have put up a few copies on their website.

https://subterraneanpress.com/vance-tdmatlc-suntup/

I’d like to say a word of praise for “To kill a mockingbird” which I’ve just received (artist edition).

A wonderfully elegant and harmonious design (both the binding and the typography; superb letterpress printing (crisp and even); Mohawk Via Laid feels surprisingly tactile (I’m not a fan of Superfine!), and the illustrations work very well for my taste.

It’s probably my favourite Suntup AE to date – a superbly made book, where every element works together. Much kudos to Suntup and the team, and a warm recommendation to look for it on the second-hand market.

>242 BorisG: +1 My favorite AE also. It’s just beautiful; I almost want to wear white gloves when I handle it.

>243 EdwinDrood: I know this wasn’t the point of your post, and you might already know this, but you should not handle your fine books with white gloves. You’re way more likely to damage the book than just using clean bare hands…Just a quick PSA.

>242 BorisG: This comment is giving me flashbacks to the FSD thread where some people mentioned that they don't read their limited editions. (fwiw I get why, just not a thing for me)

>244 Nightcrawl: I once handled a Gutenberg Bible with bare hands! (My biggest humble brag and one of my two truths and a lie. Sad to know I peaked so early.)

>246 grifgon: Back when I was in grad school (rich New England institutions) I went to the rare book library and handled with my clean but bare hands --

1)Hand-bound and ornate Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám, very similar to the one that went down on the Titanic -- https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-57683638

2)The Kelmscott Chaucer

3)1st Edition Moby Dick

4)1st Edition Huck Finn signed by Mark Twain

and others, including some one-of-a-king books. They never said wear gloves or anything of that nature. Just no food and hands clean :)

>244 Nightcrawl: Why are bare hands better?

>248 Inceptic: Better sense of touch. Less chance of bending a page or letting the book slip out of your hands.

>248 Inceptic:

If it's leatherbound books, the oil from one's hands is actually good for them, too.

>245 ensuen: I’m guessing this was in reply to >243 EdwinDrood:? I most certainly read my LEs!

>244 Nightcrawl: Those are metaphorical white gloves. I always hold my books in my hands to add another sense to the experience. While I draw the line at “tasting” the books, I listen very closely for the sound of the printing press. I read as many as I can, especially the LEs from past and present artisans.

I'm always a bit late to the party with the shipping times but I got my hands on Mockingbird and unfortunately it's got some pretty severe defects. I guess it's my "opportunity" to find out what the customer service is like.
Other than that it's very nice, loved the Via Laid on Life of Pi and it looks just as good here. I share >242 BorisG: views on tactility. The letterpress AEs have really been punching above their weight, and the tipped in illustrations on a different paper really sell the watercolour look.
The aesthetics of the dust cover from the mockup didn't really come through in reality since the paper isn't that transparent, so it just looks like white lacework covering it. Still, if you get a pristine copy it's easily one of their best AEs offered.

>253 A.Godhelm: Bum deal, what exactly happened if you don't mind me asking? At any rate, I'm willing to be Suntup will make it right.

>253 A.Godhelm: Contact them immediately. Hopefully they send you another copy, and not offer store credit only.

>254 astropi: There's some marring of the textblock and a misfold on the front cover, but then there's a "how the hell did this happen and pass QC" goof on the front endpaper where it looks like some apprentice scrunched up the paper when applying it and then decided to try and just glue it on anyway, holes and folds and misalignment be damned.
>255 Undergroundman: Sent them a message and pictures and they replied promptly to say they'll be sending a replacement. Which is of course excellent. Perhaps worth noting this is the first issue I've had in a dozen or so books.

Suntup pretty much sets the standard for customer service in the small/fine press industry.

Mockingbird AE is my first book from Suntup, and I’m blown away by the typesetting and printing consistency. In those two respects, it outshines all other books in my fine press collection, including (much more expensive) editions from CTP, CK, and Lyra’s.

>258 Antillico: While CTP, CK, Lyra’s all design beautiful books with particularly striking bindings, they all source printing out to either Hand & Eye or Nomad Letterpress. In my experience their printing is quite inconsistent. I have a few examples that are fine if unimpressive, but then there are a couple that leave much to be desired.

Suntup outsources their letterpress printing to Bradley Hutchinson, Ascensius Press, etc. - In my experience, they do much better work. If you value printing quality above all else (as I do) Suntup seems to be a step above the others (however not to the level of some fully in-house private presses such as No Reply)…but objectively, when you consider all aspects of production as a whole, I’d say Suntup, CK, CTP, Lyra’s, Arete are all still pretty much on par.

>259 Nightcrawl: Suntup outsources to Nomad as well. Most recently on last year’s Agatha Christie novel.

>260 Izdubar: Yes, you’re right. Suntup has used quite a few printers with varying results, but I feel that they have far more hits than misses.

I will say, I don’t remember who the printer was, but the H.G. Wells set had some of the worst letterpress printing I’ve encountered, and I don’t think Suntup ever worked with that particular printer again. Printing quality aside, still a very cool set of books, so no disrespect to fellow owners.

Under the Volcano looks stunning, love the illustrations. Always a bummer when there’s no AE. $550 for the numbered isn’t bad but on the other hand a lot of money for an offset printed book. I suppose it’s relatively reasonable by FS LE standards.

Went for the Numbered edition of Under the Volcano. Although litho-printed offset rather than letterpress, it is designed by Jason Dewinetz. And the illustrations are superb.

Easy pass. Those covers are very unappealing. I still wouldn't of been a fan if that style was used on an AE, but I would of accepted it due to the price point. I hope CTP gets a shot at it some point, or Lyra. Glad that at least Suntup decided to make a limited of this forgotten book.

Whenever Under the Volcano comes up I can’t help but think of that Bukowski interview on mortality where he trashes the novel for being boring

I really like the design and illustrations. So, went for the numbered.

Definitely enjoy the design / art for this latest release - particularly the numbered.

A truly inspired choice in my opinion! That's one of the things I love about Suntup, you get these well-known books in the mystery, horror, fantasy genres, and then out of the blue comes Under the Volcano! Absolutely stunning illustrations too.

I enjoy the illustrations, but not enough to buy a numbered edition. I would likely have gone for an artist edition. Can't be helped.

I like the look of the illustrations. Not surprised they leaned into the Day of the Dead for inspiration. Seems like a good crossover concept for their customer base.

I’m a little surprised by the price point of the lettered edition, especially considering the offset printing method. Have they sold other offset lettered editions at the same price? I suppose the majority of the value must be in the binding and scarcity.

>270 CJR93: Day of the Dead is way too lazy, and overexposed nowadays. Just looks a bit cheesy now.

>271 Undergroundman: The novel takes place on the Day of the Dead, so it's thematically apt. Taking it to task for that is a bit like saying a version of 1984 leans too heavily into surveillance state imagery.

>272 Shadekeep: Even the first edition dust jackets didn't use that theme, so it could have been avoided. It's just too prominent in the design. I wouldn't been opposed to it if was intergraded in a bit more subtle form.

>273 Undergroundman: Yes, it does lean into it. I like it in a kind of over-the-top Tamara de Lempicka sort of way, but agree it's not everyone's cuppa. The comparatively understated image used for the cover of the Criterion edition of the film is very powerful while more minimalist, though it does also have a great movie to pull from.

>270 CJR93: I agree that an offset printed book with a cloth/paper cover is more or less a Folio Society book! Apart from the limitation number it should not worth more that the third of the proposed price.

>275 Maretzo: A major difference here is that the Suntup numbered editions—all of them, I think—are handbound, whether letterpress- or offset-printed, which standard Folio books are *not*. Some limited Folio editions are, and those typically cost on par with Suntup numbered editions.

>274 Shadekeep: I love me the Criterion Collection :)

>270 CJR93: I fully respect the style is not everyone's thing. I personally think it's appropriate and well done. As noted, it takes place during the Day of the Dead, so if you had art that was inspired by ancient Greece it would feel out of place. On the other hand, it's perfectly fine not to like the art, but as of right now they have 13 Numbered and 7 Lettered left. The Numbered have been decreasing at a fair pace, so it may very well sell out soon. Yes, the Lettered are always around that price because as noted, they are handbound and there's a lot of detailed work involved.

Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, was printed offset and the Lettered Edition (sold out) was $2500
https://suntup.press/lamb/

I happened to watch the Facebook Live where Suntup himself talked about Under the Volcano being upcoming and I remember he called out one guy in particular as the inspiration and jokingly held him accountable for its success.
I note the limitation for the numbered was 250 which is the lower end. Native Son also hangs out there (but is letterpress and has linocuts on handmade paper), and Under the Volcano seems to be doing better with fewer bells and whistles. There's a cost difference to consider as well.
Personally I like the design, but I started the book and it didn't capture me (for numbered prices anyway). I'd like to see Leaving Las Vegas in this "genre" though.

>275 Maretzo: They’re hand bound, have a solander, signed, professionally typeset by an award-winning designer, all the materials are superior, and there are only 276 copies to spread the costs onto.

>277 astropi:
>279 What_What:

I agree they are definitely a major step up from recent FS limited editions. No comparison (except for The Wasteland).

All of the novels I’ve published to this point (Copperhead Press) have been offset printed, hand sewn and hand bound. Our lettered editions are typically a full leather binding with a handmade clamshell. Numbered editions of 50 (w/ handmade slipcase). The printing costs are definitely the largest expense in production. So I understand the time involved and cost of supplies. Plus the cost of an artist and publishing rights, etc.

At the end of the day, I’m happy for them that their offset Lettered are selling at that price. I suppose they’re setting a new standard for pricing. They’ve absolutely earned it over their years of publishing.

I’d think there is also an element of rights holders purchasing each release regardless of the printing technique just to keep their rights.

>280 CJR93: Your edition of Big Two-Hearted River is letterpress, correct? I think your books look superb. Again, I'm definitely a letterpress aficionado, so I'm hoping we'll see more letterpress from you! I definitely agree with you that part of the Suntup Lettered editions selling so well has to do with rights and the fact that over the years Suntup has shown that not only do they produce truly beautiful books, but they often have editions that become very expensive on the second-hand market (Misery, Last Unicorn, etc). I think over time there's no reason for Copperhead Press not to have the same clout.

As I noted, some classics would likely sell incredibly well, such as The Odyssey etc. I'm not sure what books you have forthcoming, but you could always reach out here and on other social platforms and ask people what book and what price-point they might be willing to pay. I'm certain there is still demand and interest in numerous classics. The Numbered Edition of Under the Volcano (Suntup) just sold out, so again, there is demand for great literature!

>281 astropi: thank you for your kind words! Yes, our edition of “Big River” is printed letterpress. Besides our chapbook collection, we also have a few new letterpress novellas on the way. That’s a great idea to poll for interest. Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll try it out on our thread.

As for Suntup, I’m really happy to see them occasionally choosing classic titles like these. It’s great to see these stories introduced to new readers.

>280 CJR93: I adore your edition of Lady Susan and it's one of the few non-letterpress titles (along with this new Suntup release) that I've bought recently and am happy to display alongside my letterpress collection. Though of course I'm glad you're increasing your letterpress output as well. The outstanding points with Copperhead so far are title selection, overall design, and superb bindings. As long as those remain strong I think you'll do fine.

The next chapbook has been announced, The Monkey’s Paw.

>284 Shadekeep: Monkey’s Paw, 400 copies, sold out in 15 minutes

>285 AjaJin:

Count off if you got one. I'll start.

1.

Frack, missed it.

>286 sdawson:
2.

Do Suntup shorts usually sell out this fast?

>286 sdawson: 3

Was really impressed by the design work and printing on the last one (both by Scott Vile) so jumped on this one right away.

Sadly I was travelling and in Singapore where the release time was 4am. If I had been at home it would have been a more reasonable 1am.

If it was a title I was absolutely desperate for I would have stayed up I guess. Nevertheless, a bit disappointed at missing out.

I wish Suntup would stick to 9 or 10am PT for releases. I expect most of their books are sold in the western time zones but it would be kinder to fans of their who find themselves on the easternmost time zones without being unreasonably early for those in the west.

4.

I also have Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge.

Has anyone seen any info about Suntup’s short stories series, how long it might be, etc.? I ordered the clamshell enclosure and hope I don’t end up with two lonely slim stories rattling around in it for the rest of my days.

>285 AjaJin: 15 minutes - wow.

I ordered it pretty much immediately, but almost waited, thinking 400 would last a day anyway.

I missed Owl Creek; but I too ordered the clam shell, hoping to purchase future short stories.

If someone has an Owl Creek they want to part with, please message me.

https://ebay.us/m/fXPvsW

Encountered on my browsing and posted as a potential service; no connection with seller.

Well, someone trying to make $100 off of a one day flip.

And checking further I see that the same seller has already sold copies for $150, $160, and $170 and now has a fourth listed for $185. I don't want this book, indeed have no Suntup books, but does make one nostalgic for the days when one would receive a prospectus or catalogue and telephone, or even write (!) to secure a copy. Of course that was no protection against someone still cornering the market, should they choose to do so, but seems an inherently more level playing-field.

>295 duncjl: That's a legit book reseller who gets discounts straight from the publishers. They often price close to retail, and lower.

>294 sdawson: I'll probably part with mine, since I'm a completionist and missing the second title basically cancels the run for me. Will let you know if I do, assuming you're still looking by then.

>296 sdawson: And sold.

5. And, I’m also looking for a copy of An Occurrence at Owl Creek, if anyone else is interested in selling theirs.

I really like the Monkey's Paw book, I never actually read it before despite it being well known culturally, so happy I got a chance to fix that.

The ink on one page was really light, but it was well done other than that. I think the box will hold ~5 or so total - so hopefully at least 3 more are coming.

I get why the didn't want to do rights for these, but perhaps Suntup will see that I am pure of heart and send out early purchase links or something so I can fill the box up.

Just a little note from the FB Live: Suntup confirms there might be less AE/Classic editions in future because they basically make no money and when they don't sell they're actively harming the bottom line. I think we suspected that with more titles being only numbered/lettered.
About tomorrow's title: no cover on the AE, something to do with the cloth design. They've already been printed. New outside binder to cut down the time to ship.

>303 A.Godhelm: Would the AE/Classic editions still be uneconomical if printed offset? He started printing some AE's Letterpress and then with Jack Vance went back to an offset AE. With Jack Vance there are lettered and numbered still available while all the AE's are sold out. I don't really think other presses have AE/Classic, except CTP. Only Paul has the granular stats, but can't he just bump up all the AE's by $50 or something? CTP's are about $300 whereas the Jack Vance AE was $165. CTP charges $300 for an AE and they're letterpress, but I think Paul could charge $200 or $250 for an offset and people might bite. Just throwing things out there. Suntup's 11 to 12 releases a year are really up there in terms of publications. But if people think the Numbered are priced too high, then they might not check recent publications at all. If they decide that they at least will get the AE, then perhaps they will see the Numbered and decide to trade up? I really don't have any idea about costs and stuff so I could be totally wrong and I would welcome anyone's input that explains why I'm wrong.

>304 imaginarydata: Even offset they're really not worth making at all. Ratman's Notebooks is offset and it didn't help at all. Some titles like The Collector took years to sell, while Hannibal Rising still sits in the store. I remember in one live he was going over the recent survey and was disappointed to find that most customer's still wanted dust jackets on the AEs. He has mentioned several times how they add time to production. A title doesn't need to be an instant sell out but every unsold copy is a copy that takes up space in the warehouse. I'm sure there's a solution somewhere but I totally get why Paul keeps urging customers to buy the AEs to keep them alive.

How is it FS can sell their books like hot cakes at a similar price point without letterpress and Suntup struggle with AEs. You could argue Suntup produce better quality books with not much price difference to FS. Suntup also has direct access to the American market. Maybe switching to a model of direct release on announcement rather than the long preorder wait times would improve the sales of AEs.

Overall, this is bad for fine press as the AEs are an entry point for new collectors to then explore other presses.

I think a lot of it has to do with Folio being much bigger, much more well established and thus with much greater customer awareness of their brand and products. In the grand scheme of things Suntup is far more obscure.

>306 LT79-1: also most FS books are still cheaper than Suntup AEs, and there’s an online shop with hundreds of titles (including dozens of very popular ones) to choose from at any point

>307 zorg2099: >308 BorisG: these are fair points but just as a slight counterpoint, CTP are still relatively obscure, without FS level marketing and back catalogue but they seem to be doing much better with their standard editions. At least I think they continue to sell at a good level.

>309 LT79-1: For the most part yes but some Collectors titles do seem to be selling rather slowly. There's still 20 copies of twenty thousand leagues, 183 of Cold Print and a very substantial 232 copies of Sea of Tranquillity—more than half the print run of the state—still available on their site.

However the offset printed (but in two volumes) Tigana sold out very quickly from what I heard.

>310 zorg2099: Maybe it's just a symptom of collectors being more precautious then in their spending with everything going on in the world. Especially the collectors who don't have the numbered and lettered level of income. I've noticed for example, this forum seems a little less lively than last year. Maybe many are taking time out from collecting or focusing on non fine press books.

It does make you wonder whether the answer is to focus more on offset printing at that price level. It's just many see letterpress as the heart of fine press. One of the key ingredients.

>304 imaginarydata: I wish I could get the numbers straight from the horse's mouth here but I'm not sure he'd want to be that open with the bookkeeping. I think the low limitations and tighter margins would always be a problem, offset might save money but you have a whole separate production line. How much you could bump the price to change the economics is a good question.
if people think the Numbered are priced too high, then they might not check recent publications at all
I think this is an important point as well, the AEs seem to work a bit like a loss leader, because you get more customers, more buzz and interest, helping the big ticket books. I've mostly been an AE shopper but I recently got a couple of numbered editions for instance.
>305 HaroldScarecrow: disappointed to find that most customer's still wanted dust jackets on the AEs
He was also floating ditching slipcases in those surveys for the same reason of adding a lot of the cost. It might be a case of a badly put question (or customer not knowing what they want), because I think most people reflexively say they want all the extras they're used to, but would rather see a non-slipcase or non-dustcover edition than no edition at all. Centipede Press has had a lot of books where the slipcases are an optional extra for some titles for instance.
>306 LT79-1: Economies of scale, FS has several thousand per printing, only one state for most books, the LEs are actually quite a bit more expensive and less bells & whistles than the small presses for the money. Even then FS was in some economic dire straits only a few years back.

>312 A.Godhelm: I think that AEs work both ways, they introduce the press to more readers, but they also provide an option for purchasers who would have otherwise spent more on a higher edition (and this can cost the press money). When Suntup announced 'The Murder of Roger Ackroyd' I liked the illustrations and purchased an AE, if this option didn't exist I still would have purchased the title, just a higher level

>303 A.Godhelm: I’m not surprised to hear this is the case but it is disappointing. Would it be worth keeping the AE tier if they bumped the price up? There is a wide gap between the price of the AE and numbered tiers. I’d be willing to pay another say $50 per book and still consider it a bargain next to the numbered price.

>305 HaroldScarecrow: I’ve never really understood the appeal of the dust jacket, personally. I admire the artwork for a minute and then take it and store it in the slipcase while I’m reading the book. They feel fragile and easy to damage. I wonder if the dust cover is an example of something people say they want, but wouldn’t actually be a deal breaker for most if they got rid of it. A slipcase on the other hand, I am reluctant to buy a premium book without one.

>305 HaroldScarecrow: said: "I totally get why Paul keeps urging customers to buy the AEs to keep them alive."

I'm doing my part, but I'm just one man. Long live the letterpress AE editions. I would likely not purchase them if they were offset. But this is also why I'm not purchasing the FS limited editions as well. I drop down to the FS standard editions in that case.

>314 PJ-Reads: I hate dust jackets too. They actually don't do anything to protect a book, are hard to care for, and make the book look like just any other hardcover on the shelf. To really take care of them, you have to use a clear dust-jacket-jacket, which seems silly and makes books look they're wrapped in plastic wrap.

But from what I understand they are very popular with the collectors who favor Suntup and Centipede and some of those presses. I remember asking a publisher (in the context of a survey) if they would consider using dust jackets less frequently, and he said that the sales increased drastically when they started including them.

I'm much happier with how CTP standard editions have the art printed on buckram or cloth.

>314 PJ-Reads: I'm in the same boat on dustcovers. I take them off to read the book typically, and I much prefer a slipcase when that's an option. Glad to hear the upcoming edition is sans dustcover, maybe that will be winning move for Suntup going forward.

And it's interesting that most of us here (including myself) clamour for letterpress, yet both letterpress editions of the Jack Vance book are still in stock while the offset AE flew off the shelf. Meanwhile, the offset Numbered/Lettered only edition of Under the Volcano is fully subscribed. One wonders how the Vance book might have fair in only two tiers as well.

A number of private press printers have told me that this forum doesn't look like the book market as a whole, and cases like this make me suspect they are correct.

>314 PJ-Reads: I wouldn't want get rid of the dust jacket for any of the books I own that come with them be it regular trade books or fine press—they can be an opportunity to present some beautiful artwork. Some of my favourite book covers are indeed iconic dust jackets like that of The Hobbit.

Having said all that for a clean sheet design wishlist I would almost always prefer a book with an attractive design sans dust jacket. As you said the jacket gets put away for reading as well.

Specifically on the subject of Suntup, so far I've only received one book The Black Phone artist edition (have one more artist and a handful of numbered on order). I actually feel the cloth cover looks far nicer than the dust jacket and it seems a shame to cover it up. The cloth itself is quite nice and the design with the stamped balloons is simple but effective. If the artists editions are well designed like this, or have artwork printed on buckram boards like most Folio books I can't imagine too many people can have complaints.

Edit: I just saw Auberon's reply that DJs led to notable increased sales for some publishers though. It suppose its a tricky decision for a publisher depending on the clientele.

>317 Shadekeep:

"A number of private press printers have told me that this forum doesn't look like the book market as a whole, and cases like this make me suspect they are correct."

The collectors commenting regularly on this forum form a very small pool of individuals. The ones who create high effort content such as reviews or well thought out topics are even smaller. Most are lurkers or occasional commentors. I've had members PM me to ask questions who never comment on the forum. I think the printers you spoke to are correct.

>314 PJ-Reads:
I’m the opposite. Artwork is an important feature of a fine press book, so an attractive jacket is a big plus for me. On the other hand, most slipcases are dull and lifeless, and I remove them and store them in the attic.

>315 sdawson:
I don’t care how a book is printed as long as the font is crisp and easy to read, and I won’t pay more than $500 for one. No book is worth more than that to me even if numbered and signed.

I don't envy press owners. It must be a difficult market to predict at the best of times. Print too few, and you upset would-be buyers; print too many, and you're stuck with unsold books.

Conversation Tree Press:

* 5 in-stock editions
* 42 out-of-stock

88% of their editions have sold out completely, then. And of the remainder, all have sold some--and 20,000 Leagues (collector's edition) has sold 95%.

I'd say the press is doing very well indeed, despite the headwinds of inflation and strong competition.

I'd be very disappointed if Suntup dropped the AE/CE tier (I own a few) as the other tiers are beyond my budget; hopefully they can find a way to make the numbers work.

I also agree with others here on dust jackets. Don't need them, don't want them. I once spoke with Centipede Press on this (CP used to publish books without dust jackets, but then they started including them) and was told that others did like and want them. I always thought they were superfluous and unnecessary in high-quality books. Well, it's really unfortunate if Suntup removes the Classic/AE from their editions, especially when it comes to the letterpress publications, but I can't blame them.

>322 St._Troy: I did watch the stream after the fact and Paul said that they might become less frequent but he mentioned more than once that he would continue to do them whenever they estimate it will sell out.

Anyways the new title as guessed is The Colour Out of Space by H.P. Lovecraft https://suntup.press/the-colour-out-of-space/

>324 zorg2099: Went for the Numbered, though I do like the unjacketed AE edition as well. The Numbered hits the sweet spot for me, and I also want to maintain my place in line for The Lathe of Heaven.

Excellent choices for the textblock used across all three editions. Major upgrade over Under the Volcano

That marbled paper on the numbered looks so good. I'm gonna go for one on Saturday.

>325 Shadekeep: Same here! For much the same reasons. The marbling by Crepaldi looks superb on the numbered too.

I wonder how resilient the marbling on the leather of the lettered edition is, and if its a similar process to marbling paper?

I do think the AE looks very attractive in any case.

The Colour Out of Space and recent conversation around Suntup's Short Story series brings to mind other short works I'd like to see Suntup print in stand-alone form: Poe's The Masque of the Red Death and Lovecraft's The Case of Charles Dexter Ward.

The numbered looks amazing. The story goes along great with any marbling design.

I’ve never read Lovecraft, and still don’t feel particularly compelled to. I do, on the other hand, really like everything the AE is offering.

Would anybody recommend this story to someone who is not against horror, but not an enthusiast?

>331 PJ-Reads: It's one of Lovecraft's best works and is arguably more science fiction than horror. I easily recommend this. Great price for the AE too.

>328 zorg2099: That's a good question, I'm not sure how well marbling holds up on leather. It certainly looks to be applied the same way, that's a pretty classic Feather marbling pattern on the Lettered. I suppose one could use different paints that are more robust on leather, but given how much of the art of marbling is around achieving perfect thinning of the paint, I would venture it's the same as is used on paper.

>331 PJ-Reads: This is probably one of the better HPL stories to go with if you aren't looking for full-bore cosmic horror in typical Lovecraft style. There is obviously a horror element, but much of the story plays out more as a rural gothic, with the family's suffering portrayed in a way that could just as easily be brought about by more conventional means. The otherworldy horror in this story is less rococo than the monstrous hybrids and alien presences that flavor much of HPL's work, and in that way you may find it more accessible.

Got the AE – superb value with multiple illustrations printed from the block. Over 300 copies sold already, hope it will support the AEs in Suntup’s lineup for a while…

Not sure about the woodcuts yet but a nice readable letterpress lovecraft on nice paper and cloth slipcase at that price is a no-brainer so I ordered my first Suntup AE book. Looking forward to finally inspecting one.

>331 PJ-Reads: I (a Lovecraft fan) would recommend this story to someone with an existing interest in trying Lovecraft, but not otherwise.

A non-horror enthusiast as you describe would have an easier time dipping into the likes of King or Straub than Lovecraft, whose work is a pretty particular thing; not merely horror, but "weird fiction," focusing on the unusual and disturbing in place of conventional things such as "evil" and "haunting."

If the description on Suntup's site intrigues you (and you don't mind taking a chance on a $165 book), go right ahead.

Pre-orders seem brisk on this one, Numbered is down to 182 now (was 230 when I first checked), and Lettered at 18. AE moving at a good clip too.

>337 Shadekeep: I don't believe the numbered and lettered are yet on sale, no?

>338 St._Troy: They are for those with existing rights from Under the Volcano.

>339 Shadekeep: Aha.

>338 St._Troy: People with rights have first dibs, so when it goes public there typically are substantially less copies than printed -- depending on how well it sells of course :)

Also, slightly off-topic, but there is a movie which deviates substantially from the story, but is nevertheless entertaining and in my opinion one of the better HPL movies produced --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_Out_of_Space_(film)

Ordered the Artist Edition. Hoping it sells out so Suntup keeps doing these letterpress.

Couldn’t resist the numbered... ;)

>341 astropi: The German adaptation Die Farbe is my favorite so far. It's shot in black-and-white, except for the colour itself.

>344 Shadekeep: Thanks, I'd love to watch that. Do you know if you can stream/purchase it?

The production value on these short stories makes me really excited for how they're gonna tackle The Legend of Sleepy Hollow.

Ordered the AE. Looks to be beautiful, and a genuine bargain at that price. I'll be shocked if it doesn't sell out.

>345 astropi: There's a copy on eBay that looks like the edition I own, and links below it to similar copies. I've not found it directly for sale recently, but that's not say some shop doesn't have it!

It also appears that Fandor has it for streaming. Some other services might as well.

Will be keeping my fingers crossed some of the numbered editions are left by Saturday, it would look great besides my Shelter Bookworks edition.

>349 wongie: Best of luck! I'll try to remember to post a stock count right before the general sale. As of right now 162 numbered left.

How much does the numbered cost?

>351 filox: Numbered is $550, Lettered is $1,500

>347 Shotcaller: I think you're right about a bargain. Even with postage to UK it clocks in under £150. I'm not sure if there is another press which could deliver that package at that price.

Latest count: 99 AEs, 155 Numbered, 15 Lettered.

>346 HaroldScarecrow: Same here.

I wonder if Suntup will publish The Legend of Sleepy Hollow as one of their short stories or as a conventional book as with The Colour Out of Space, which (Suntup's forthcoming edition) is 104 pages. For comparison with the short stories, The Monkey's Paw is 24 pages and An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge is 16 pages. I suspect Suntup could get a conventional book out of TLOSH if so inclined.

>353 LT79-1: Agreed. Honestly can't think of another press that would do this. Letterpress, seven wood engravings printed from the blocks. Good paper. This looks to be a very nice edition.

>355 St._Troy: Conversation Tree were quite successful with their multi-state release of Rip Van Winkle although potential publisher rights to Perdido Street Station could also have been a consideration in its rather quick sell out.

In any case I do think a regular multi-state edition (probably without an AE) would be feasible for Suntup.

>355 St._Troy: Due to length it would have to be a conventional release. Plus they got an artist to do work for it that took a little over a year to complete. At over 12,00 words if they include the postscript, it would likley be the same as The Colour Out of Space. Very excited for it, most anticipated announcement of the year.

>348 Shadekeep: Thank you!

So less than 90 copies remain, it will definitely sell out, which is great :)

Also, I think the AE has a very striking cover which is very apropos for the source material.

>345 astropi: >348 Shadekeep:

It is streaming on Disney/Hulu at the moment.

I also see it on Hoopla, which is a way to stream movies using your public library if your library provides access via Hoopla.

>360 sdawson: Thank you.

63 copies left. Any bets on how long before it sells out?

>359 astropi: It is a great cover design on the AE (and really all three states). I've seen a few like it in fine press, always striking when done right like Suntup has done here.

I'd be surprised if there are many AEs left by midnight EST, and really surprised if they last past midnight PST.

>362 Shadekeep: Agreed, it's a great choice by Suntup and clearly people agree considering how quickly it's been selling. At the current rate (about 1 copy sold every 1-2 minutes) it won't last much longer at all -- down to 56 copies :)

Down to 31. For some reason, despite knowing I definitely wanted the TCOOS AE, I initially thought I'd wait at least a day to jump in; I have no idea why this seemed like a good idea, but I'm glad I snapped out of it.

Ooof, gotta resist buying an AE now just because of fomo and steel myself and commit to the numbered edition even if there's a risk it might be all gone before Saturday.

Although the Suntup counter can fluctuate, the AE appears to be gone.

>365 wongie: steel myself and commit to the numbered edition



>366 St._Troy:

Congratulations to Suntup.

>328 zorg2099: >333 Shadekeep: as a practitioner, it's the same: as long as it is not chrome tanned leather, you can bond the paint to just about anything using enough mordant (traditionally alum). You can marble chrome tanned leather (or similar plasticine/artificial paper, like yupo paper), but you run the very real risk of the marbling coming off entirely with a little bit of rubbing. I have a small notebook I covered in marbled yupo paper and it lasted maybe a week of normal use before any commonly rubbed part (e.g. the edges) became totally devoid of paint. You can see an example of Freya Scott marbling leather on Instagram. The person I know the best who does fabric/leather marbling uses acrylic paints, so I think the paint choice just comes down to preference.

On the general topic of sales, as a non-Suntup collector, and someone far removed from the genres they sell (there are a number of titles I have never heard of that I see on the forum are much coveted & sold out), are there thoughts about inadvertently going too niche? For example, the potential issue of a loud enough contingent of voices influencing title selection which makes that group happy, but leaves Suntup holding the bag? Sort of in the same vein as the prior comment about this forum not being representative of the book market as a whole (which is a shame, natch).

>369 yikou: are there thoughts about inadvertently going too niche?
For Suntup? I don't think so. One of the things I love about Suntup is that they're not bound to just one genre -- they published Dante's Divine Comedy (a gorgeous edition) along with works such as The Hellbound Heart, Silence of the Lambs, The Last Unicorn, etc. Some editions sell much more quickly than others for various reasons. However, I always get excited when they publish "less well-known" works such as Under the Volcano.

>369 yikou: I wonder about the “too niche”/loud minority, I think it’s worth considering. FS has gotten some flak for their title selection in recent years but their business seems to be thriving by embracing more modern and popular books. CK’s Red Rising and Assassins’s Apprentice may also be examples of less forum-friendly titles that sold out incredibly quickly.

But as a counterpoint, I would consider this Lovecraft release to be niche and it just sold out in several hours.

I also would suspect some of the more niche picks from Suntup have more to do with Paul’s artistic interests than what is expected to sell the fastest/what the audience is asking for. Suppose it’s a balance to maintain.

>335 LT79-1: Given your stated preference for non-objectivist designs, I thought surely you would go for one of the other editions :p

Kidding, of course. There's aesthetic preferences and then there's just getting a good deal on a decently designed book.

Jokes aside - does this concept of multiple states with different designs go back beyond currently active Fine Press publishers and private presses? I'm not aware of private presses historically having multiple states of a book with varying designs. Is the purpose to have a wider range of designs to appeal to a wider range of sensibilities/design preferences among buyers? To manifest multiple possible designs the publisher wanted to execute? To merely have different offerings at different price points?
Sometimes the design choices made with a book that comes in only one edition are not exactly what I would have chosen but there is a sense of a unified vision, an authenticity in the combination of paper, binding, design being exactly what the printer envisioned and felt was right for the project. I see less of that personal connection to the source when there are multiple states that are so different.

Nevertheless, I subscribe to Griffin's perspective that the more book makers, the better, and the more varied the offerings, the better still. It's great to see a thriving publisher/designer of nicer books.

>369 yikou: Thanks for the marbling info! I keep meaning to get into my home marbling kit, which uses acrylic paint and paper. I just keep putting off making the carrageenan medium the night before...

Regarding Suntup's title selections, I think in general they make good selections that appeal to most people. Often I'm surprised when titles I expected to do better, like Native Son, Outlander, or The Outsiders, take a while to sell. But most of the time I feel they make the right call, and I'm heartened to see titles like Under the Volcano and The Hellbound Heart sell out swiftly. I don't envy Paul in the selection of titles, as the market is a fickle place made of heterogenous minds.

119 Numbered, 11 Lettered remain at this time. Good luck to folks here queuing up tomorrow, hope you all get one!

>373 ns21: "does this concept of multiple states with different designs go back beyond currently active Fine Press publishers and private presses? I'm not aware of private presses historically having multiple states of a book with varying designs."

Depending on how one considers multiple states, this practice goes back to the very beginning:

200 copies bave been printed on paper and 20 copies on vellum.
The paper copies will all be full bound in white pigskin and the vellum copies in red Niger morocco. There will be for sale 240 copies on paper at 15 guineas
17 copies on vellum at 100 guíneas

More examples: Essex House produced paper and vellum copies and sometimes special bindings; Cranach's Hamlet appeared on different papers and vellum with deluxe variants; Golden Cockerel regularly issued ordinary and special versions with different paper, printing colors, and bindings.

I bought a lettered on the secondary market to ensure that I would get one. The premium wasn’t too insane and this isn’t a title I expect to sell for less than retail after release like many other Suntup titles do.

As someone else said above, it will be great to compare it to Amy Borezo’s work.

>369 yikou: Thank you for the info and the link! Very interesting.

On the subject of niche titles most of their publications seem to be driven by Paul's own tastes to a large degree. However, I have heard him mention on a previous FB live stream of one or two titles they published specifically because of repeat requests from their existing repeat customers (I can't recall the specific titles in question). There is always a risk with niche books although this month's Lovecraft is surely not one of them especially for Suntup's clientele given that they have generally had a horror skew to their line up.

>373 ns21: Haha, I certainly do have my preferences. I'm not a Suntup collector but I have to hand it to them. £120 for letterpress, slipcased cloth book with 7 woodcut illustration on nice paper is quite remarkable really. There's even an introduction in there from a Lovecraft critic. Others above have said Lovecraft is niche. I don't think that's the case anymore. I also don't see him as a fad either. I think he's quite well established at this point.

Regarding multi state bindings, I have been very critical of this in the past. I think I started a thread on it. And I mostly stand by those opinions. I'm not a fan of it for the most part but if they try to keep that harmony with the text blocks and it allows new collectors on a budget to be able to pick up £120 letterpress books then that's not too bad at all.

>380 LT79-1: My feeling on multiple editions is that, so long as the text and illustrations are the same, fine; I don't mind the deluxe/de luxe edition having better paper, a different binding, and/or an art portfolio.

Take Barbarian Press's forthcoming Bordering On The Sublime:

A. 80 copies. Full leather, stamped or with an inserted panel. Many borders accompanying the text, with a photographic essay showing marked-up proofs, some of the formes made up for printing, details of the printing process, historical photographs, and other Curwen work. Accompanied by a portfolio containing several oversized borders, possibly recreations of some Curwen borders not present in type, some new borders created for this book, plus one original Curwen proof. Approximately 250 pages. Boxed.

B. 35 copies. As above, but quarter leather with decorated paper, with a portfolio containing a selection of the oversized proofs, but without the original borders & Curwen proof. Slipcased.

C. 45 copies. Book as in B, but quarter cloth binding and without portfolio. Slipcased.

I'm in for a C. copy for a few reasons: cost; no interest in the portfolio; confidence that the binding of even this state will be wonderful. I don't mind that states A. and B. exist.

>381 Shotcaller: do you have to have a Barbarian subscription to order the C edition? Way out of my budget for this year but interesting to know.

>382 LT79-1: No, you don't, but if you become a subscriber, you get a substantial discount (30%).

>383 Shotcaller: thank you. Will be worth every penny I'm sure. To say I'm jealous is an understatement :)

>382 LT79-1: They take advanced deposit reservations if you want individual publications. Being a subscriber grants you a discount, assuming you buy everything they release

For anyone interested in the new book but not on the rights train, there's 8 lettered and 103 numbered left as of now.

>386 zorg2099: Does anyone know how low the numbered/lettered editions have to go for the lottery system to be used? (Assuming there are any left)

>376 abysswalker: Thank you! I'd also forgotten about Aldine limited editions printed on the desired blue papers of the day, so there really is a long history of it after all. Not that that alone should make it more or less desirable.

Addendum: I suppose his wasn't a private press and his blue paper editions merely limited editions of his "trade" editions, but your point is well taken about printers offering multiple states.

Interesting to see that both states of the William Morris collection are still available. Would love to hear how it is from anyone who's seen or held it.

>389 Shotcaller: I'm not surprised. The cost for the Numbered is about twice that of a normal publication ($1250) although the deluxe is around the same price as other deluxe ($2250). It's a gorgeous publication, but with the cost and the fact that it's a poetry book likely has hampered sales. Still, at some point it will sell out :)

>390 astropi: I'm sure you're right. And this was a passion project for Paul, I believe - not something he did because he expected it to fly off the shelves.

>391 Shotcaller: For certain. Again, one of the things I love about Suntup is that they are willing to do truly magnificent productions of works that are off the beaten path. I'm sure most people on here know and/or have read William Morris, but out there in the big open world, he's not exactly a Stephen King, for better or worse!

This seems to me to be Suntup's most beautiful edition yet, and it doesn't surprise me that I likely won't have a chance to order a copy.

>393 edkennedy: how many copies are left?

73 numbered left now.

>395 Chemren: So 70% sold before the public offering. Sounds like a win.

>395 Chemren: wow. I assume the lettered are near zero now too

>389 Shotcaller: it’s really beautifully done. Luscious paper, beautiful typography. I preferred the paper to the leather. But I’m not a big fan of Morris’ poetry so it wasn’t for me.

I bought the AE. I'd rather have the AE than nothing. But if I waited for Numbered I was afraid AE would sell out and the Numbered would sell out and I'd get nothing. I wish there was some kind of mechanism where you can get an AE and if you try for a Numbered you can apply the AE to the Numbered so you don't have to buy two books.

>399 imaginarydata: I would think the simpler solution would be to put up the AE for sale at the same time as the general sale for the numbered and lettered books. Thats how CTP does it and I’m not sure why Suntup has the current arrangement. Very awkward for someone not on the rights train.

For what it’s worth though, I did place an order for the Vance AE and then later upgraded to the numbered during the general sale. I was able to cancel and refund my AE order without any issues (less the small card processing fee). But that didn't feel like an ideal solution for me nor I imagine for Suntup.

With three hours left in the pre-sale period there are 4 lettered and 56 numbered left. I don't think they will all disappear in the next few hours before the general sale. Best of luck to those hoping for one!

I have zero interest in this book, but shocked it hasn't sold out considering the prices. Is it too much for what you get?

>402 Undergroundman: I suspect its more to do with taste than a question of value. Perhaps Lovecraft doesn't appeal to all the rights holders from Under the Volcano. I would be very surprised if the remaining numbered books don't sell out within a few hours after the general sale opens up.

If Suntup were to do this more often: a series of simple wood engravings, stripped down design (monochromatic or a pinch of colour), good paper, cloth covers, slipcase, letterpress, similar page count at a similar price point with some classic literature (doesn't need to be Lovecraft) I'd quite happily build up a collection of AEs. I doubt it makes them much money but it employs ctaftspeople and draws attention to the numbered and lettered which I'm guessing does make them money. It was also good they had a 500 limitation as it cuts down this fomo frenzy. The actual template isn't far off what CTP is doing but the key for me is the wood engravings and not glossy art. Also the literature needs to be popular enough but classic and well established without anything faddish.

>385 Izdubar: Thanks!

I was really interested in the Morris until I realised this is basically a collection of extracts from several of his books. Had it been a complete one I would have bought it. As it is, I will be looking into older editions of these. There seem to be some nice ones around.

We'll know in an hour what's left for public sale. But it sounds like the Lettered might be low enough to trigger a lottery scenario. Not sure what the magic threshold is for Numbered editions.

~50 numbered available
~A couple lettered available (gone before I could even look at the page, but they were there)

Must’ve been a glitch, they disappeared in a second

17 Numbered...

All gone in about 7 minutes?

It's acting weird here for me, refreshing the page keeps vacillating between 1 and 21 copies.

EDIT: Ah, even though it displays "1 Available", adding to cart indicates it's in fact sold out.

Almost missed my own calender reminder! Managed to get on the page with like 40 left but upon check out I got a bug and it said it had sold out. Had to do a double take at the page which said 30 so refreshed my basket but it managed to go through this time and managed to snag one in the end. Phew! Though in my panic I forgot to upgrade my shipping but that's a minor problem, I sent them an email and I'm sure it's not a problem though a moment after sending it I noticed Suntup's preorder email come through. Out of curiosity I clicked into it to see it sold out which would be annoying if you're relying on the official comms.

My first “open season” purchase of a sellout volume and only my second Numbered Edition after Treasure Island. I like the Suntup method of locking down the website until “go time”; although, I didn’t think I had a chance. Site opened, logged on, HAD TO VERIFY, book in basket, used PayPal, HAD TO VERIFY, back to Suntup, order confirmed at 9:03 PDT. Thank goodness for Face Verification. I checked stock at 9:05, still 21 left, and thought “what’s the big deal?”. I Checked again at 9:09, out of stock. Whew! I know most of you are veterans; please excuse my adrenaline rush. Congrats to everyone who snagged a copy.

>402 Undergroundman: You can't really say it "hasn't sold out" when applying it to the closed private pre-order. Within a few minutes of being available to more than the 276 individuals who could have purchased it privately, it did sell out.

>414 EdwinDrood: If you have an Apple device, I’ve found Apple Pay to be the most frictionless pay option that Suntup supports (probably the same for Google Wallet or whatever the Android equivalent is). No having to login to anything, etc

>414 EdwinDrood: >416 const-char-star: I don't do Apple Pay or Google Wallet, but I have shopify setup on the Suntup site and it is quick as well.

Congrats to everyone that got a Numbered and/or Lettered! I'm honestly not surprised this sold out in minutes.

>417 sdawson: Thanks for the reminder about Shopify, which I have with CTP.

Shopify one click pay is the fastest way for these fast sell out releases, significantly faster than Apple Pay or Google pay. It didn’t matter today as it took 7 minutes but for those ones like CK that sell out in 10-45 seconds it does make a difference.

I do not follow Suntup very closely but I am under the impression that their books are getting better as time goes on. Is this the general impression of those who own many of them? I was never tempted by the books a few years ago but now nearly every one has me interested.

>421 edkennedy: They've definitely been doing letterpress more often, having AE states in letterpress as well is a bonus come round the last few years, and I know when they did the "Classic Editions" (AEs with signatures from living authors) that was a big step up as well. Suntup talked a bit about the addition of giclée prints to certain titles as a new feature. There also seem to be more titles using traditional printmaking techniques. I think it is fair to say the base editions are some of the best deals in fine press sometimes given the fairly modest pricing. As to the numbered and lettered states I've just recently dipped my toes.

>421 edkennedy: >422 A.Godhelm: I definitely agree that Suntup offers some of the best deals in fine press you can get today. In many ways I view them as a new LEC. While the LEC published more "traditional" works, Suntup publishes everything from Dante to Stephen king.

>317 Shadekeep: I am personally indifferent about the printing method - whether offset or letterpress. The paper quality (most important!), paper tone, typeface and overall sharpness and consistency of printing are far, far more important to me personally.

I would gladly accept all Suntup AE/CE being offset printed if it helps the overall economics of the business and increases the profit margins for Suntup. The Numbered and Lettered states can keep the letterpress since collectors at that price point apparently value it very highly and generally consider its absence a dealbreaker.

By the way, I recently received my AE copy of One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest from Suntup, and I honestly wouldn't have minded if it were offset printed, although I'm aware it's letterpress printed. The paper quality is excellent, with beautiful artwork and typography, nice endpapers, mild color tones throughout; just an overall excellent production from Suntup. Even if it were offset printed, it would not diminish the production at all in my eyes.

My Short Stories traycase is arriving tomorrow. I hope we eventually get The Scarlet Ibis and The Cask of Amontillado. The chapbooks were such a great way to publish these works without doing a standard release.

>425 HaroldScarecrow: The Cask of Amontillado would be great, but this mention of Poe reminds me I’d trade an arm for a Suntup Masque of the Red Death.

>424 Ibkay:

I feel exactly the same. I couldn't care less about letterpress, especially when it comes to full novels (something like Words of Fire by Areté on thick paper is a different matter), and would much rather have an offset printed classic edition than none at all. A lot of the time, the print quality is actually more reliable with good offset printing. (And I know that a lot of people see this differently on here, but as has ben said, this group isn't that representative of buyers in general.)

As for giclée prints: I just received the numbered Outlander, my first with giclée prints, and the quality is really astonishing and much better than the already really nice illustrations in the classic edition. The colours are fantastic. Now that's something that could make me more likely to buy something.

That being said, lately Suntup has matched my taste in art quite rarely so I haven't bought some books I would have otherwise got due to the book itself. What I did get and recently receive were To kill a Mockingbird and One flew over the Cuckoo's Nest, both of which are really beautiful. Actually all the books I got during the last year or so are gorgeous, but it hasn't been many due to the choice of illustrations.

>427 SF-72: I think giclée prints are/will become the expectation for expensive editions with reproductions of color illustrations (unless techniques like serigraphs are practical). The positive difference in quality is startling.

>424 Ibkay: "The paper quality (most important!)"

I kind of agree with you here, with the caveat all else equal; it's maybe worth noting that most of the finest papers either can't be printed on using offset, or just aren't printed on using offset for some reason. Does mechanical evenness on decent paper trump more irregular on gorgeous paper? I think I'd usually take the second.

Like I might prefer thoughtful offset on Mohawk superfine or Munken pure rough compared to letterpress, especially if it's done using a highly automated rig like a Heidelberg cylinder. But offset printing on a nice thick textured handmade, such as Barcham Green or Kelmscott? Probably not; maybe someone more experienced can tell us the degree to which the technical barriers to printing offset on such finer papers are truly blocking or more a matter of convention.

A friend is looking for Suntup's Numbered Silence of the Lambs, specifically #193. If anyone has that number, or a numbered copy for sale, please let me know!

>429 abysswalker: if the finest papers don't gel with offset I think that tells you something. Any time a collector states the paper is the most important thing or the binding, etc. it makes no sense to me. It's the package and how it all works together as a whole.

>431 LT79-1: Exactly right. Fine materials by and large require fine methods. It all goes hand in hand, every part. It seems to me that saying "I don't care what type of press is used, I just want good letterpress" or "I don't care how the printing is done, I just want good paper" is a bit like saying "I don't care what shoes they wear, I just want good ballet."

>429 abysswalker: >431 LT79-1: >432 grifgon:
Yes, I certainly agree that one naturally has to match the best printing technique and materials to the paper - I think that goes without saying. Like oil on canvas painting.

That said, my meaning is that for a given printing technique - offset or letterpress - I find the paper quality very important. For example, among offset printed books, I'm sure we've all encountered books made with paper of ultra-cheap and flimsy newspaper quality to creamy, smooth, heavy opaque paper and everything between.

I personally enjoy smooth, creamy paper over rough texture paper in general.

Fans of the television show Pawn Stars and its book expert Rebecca Romney may be interested in knowing that, on her Instagram page, Ms. Rommey presents and talks about Suntup’s To Kill A Mockingbird, citing the press as an example of a modern one Doing Things Right.

>434 Shotcaller: It seemed like a very positive video, unfortunately it looks like the book is somewhat hard to get - which is also very Suntup.

I'm really happy there seems to be a semi-viable video market for book themed Reels (if you have another way to monetize the views). The economics of long form video and writing don't really seem to work out very well.

Paul just confirmed on Facebook live that he has 5 additional Cormac McCarthy books contracted and that Suttree is one of them. No details on when.

edit: Also next round of quarterly hints on Monday.

What a haymaker of an announcement

>436 zorg2099: That is amazing. Suttree, Border Trilogy, +?

Does The Passenger/Stella Maris count as one?

I'd love to see his first three novels in fine press.

>436 zorg2099: Holy shit!

>436 zorg2099:

First three, Suttree, and Stonemason would be perfect.

>436 zorg2099: That's great news! Even makes it hard to guess which ones will be picked. Surely the Border Trilogy (released piecemeal or as a set?), Suttree he mentioned, but then what? The Orchard Keeper?
>440 kcshankd: Stonemason seems an unlikely pick but if we're including his plays I'd love to see The Sunset Limited.

Nobody wants a Fine Press edition of the screenplay for The Counselor???

Wow - that lettered Lathe of Heaven is stunning.

I think both editions are stunning! I wasn't aware of this cyanotype printing on cloth technique used on the numbered but it sounds very intriguing. Paul mentioned in yesterdays stream its a method they've used once before (without specifying the method), I don't know which book used it previously.

In any case placed my order for the numbered without hesitation. Incredibly excited for this.

I’ve been working on cyanotypes myself so that was particularly exciting to me!

>444 zorg2099: It was used on the HEX numbered edition as well.

Both states are spectacular, and I love the idea of cyanotype on the cover, so no hesitation in reserving the Numbered. Glad to see this classic in fine press.

Darn, especially disappointed to be priced out of this one with no AE. Looks stunning!

Lovely. I join everyone else in wishing for an AE; I guess I'll see what's left after subscribers have their day!

>446 A.Nobody: Thanks! A gorgeous binding there too. Wasn't too familiar with that edition as it was from before I started collecting fine press or knew about Suntup.

>444 zorg2099: That might be my favorite numbered from Suntup ever, though I'm biased towards Le Guin editions. Cyanotype printing is such an interesting and excellent binding choice for this. I'm already regretting not trying harder to secure rights - I'm afraid I'll pay a pretty penny for a copy if I don't have good luck Saturday.

>451 NathanOv: I am also a big Le Guin fan so I was greatly looking forward to this release too and I am incredibly happy at seeing such an exceptional design and production here. Best of luck on Saturday! There are 141 numbered editions left at the moment so the rights holders are picking them up but my feeling is that there will be copies left over.

>451 NathanOv: >452 zorg2099: Phew, hopefully :)
I agree with everyone, truly striking. And Le Guin is one of the best writers in the genre. I would be shocked if any Lettered are left, but again, hopefully some numbered. I assume producing a "standard" was at this point too costly?

>451 NathanOv: Someone over on Facebook is providing hourly updates on copies remaining available; it doesn't look like it's in any rush to sell out.

Yep 101 Numbered and 11 lettered just now. Will be plenty for general sale in just over an hour from now.

>455 zorg2099: Just over twenty-five hours from now, you mean, surely? Unless you know something we don't. The email said Saturday.

>456 ambyrglow: My mistake! I thought the sale was today not saturday.

I was initially thinking I would buy this on Saturday but I just don't love the art and that's the most important aspect for me. Beautiful book though and would consider buying it at a lower price later on.

Any theories on the next release? This one is pricey enough that I’m on the fence about it.

>458 bruinuclafan: I respect your opinion, although I personally think the art is unique and inspired. I also bet it looks better in person :)

>459 Another_Bibliomane: Just some broad speculation that the next title may be a contemporary thriller (another Cormac McCarthy or perhaps similar work) or a gothic horror (Dracula? Frankenstein?) -- whether it's worth acquiring rights is always a personal decision. I do agree this work is "pricey" although truly striking and gorgeous production.

Are there any copies of either edition remaining?

>461 Izdubar: 7 lettered and 62 numbered right now.

>462 zorg2099: You beat me to it ;)

Last count from your correspondent on the ground. I believe the matching pre-orders will be closing momentarily in preparation for the general sale.

5 lettered and 57 numbered remaining.

And sold out in nine minutes. Pleased to have acquired a numbered.

>465 ambyrglow: Congrats! Was quick but not so quick that everyone who turned up on time for a numbered would couldn't have gotten one.

Was too late to the direct sale, but was just able to find a copy at pretty much original cost in the FB group. Seems like there’s another seller there for anyone else who missed it.

Always a few people who buy just to maintain their rights.

>467 greenwald1: I've been curious about that for a while, how does that usually work out? Do you pay up front and then wait a year for it to be "triangle shipped" from them to you? Or do you make some deal with Suntup to have it sent on? Or do you have a handshake agreement to pay up in a year when it's actually out?

Suntup won’t deal with it. I’ve done both of the other arrangements over the years and it’s always worked out.

Clues for next titles are out, with apparently a skip over July. One of the two will have an Artist state edition as well.

August

She is, she is, she is... not actually named Victoria. The book is available in two states: Lettered and Numbered. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies and the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies. All copies are signed by the artist, the calligrapher and the author of the introduction. There will also be a Designer's edition, hand bound by an incredibly talented design binder, of which only 1 copy will exist. This copy will be available for purchase by lottery only once the edition is closer to completion.

September

Much like yourself perhaps, we are excited for this book originally published in 1973. The edition is available in three states: Lettered, Numbered and Artist. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies, the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies and the Artist edition is limited to 750 copies. All copies are printed letterpress and signed by the world-renowned illustrator who created the woodcuts for this edition. The Lettered and Numbered editions are also signed by the author of the afterword.

Printing has already completed on the August title and we anticipate the September title will also be finished printing soon. As always, we look forward to sharing these books with you. This quarter brings you two very different authors, both equally brilliant in their unique command of prose. Thank you for your continued support.

Anyone got any ideas for the 3rd quarter hints?

The August book hint is: She is, she is, she is… not actually named Victoria.

September is: Much like yourself perhaps, we are excited for this book originally published in 1973.

For September I don't imagine there's any clue in the phrasing so its a pretty weak hint. It could be Cormac McCarthy's Child of God? Which would be a little surprising since Paul did already reveal Suttree as one of the upcoming titles but that doesn't mean its the first.

Edit: Oops, Ninja'd. Still the question stands

>471 zorg2099: My suspicion as well was that September is a Cormac McCarthy title. The quantity seems to anticipate the demand, and the clue acknowledges the general acclaim garnered from Suntup securing the titles.

The Bell Jar seems plausible for August with Child of God making a lot of sense for September (especially with those 5 upcoming McCarthy books mentioned). Paul also mentioned on a livestream that a short story is coming in July - which should round out a nice quarter!

The Bell Jar and Child of God are popular guesses at this point.

Both The Bell Jar and Child of God seem plausible Suntup titles (well, especially with CoG having been announced before).

Going to be Child of God. Not as interested in his work like I was before, so it will be a pass.

>473 NotSoSlimShady: Sound like logical guesses. If correct, I'll probably back The Bell Jar, and then hop off the rights train.

I'll probably do the same and exercise the rights to the Bell Jar and then hop off, I've not read Child of God and I do need to save some money somewhere. Saw on Facebook though I was quite wrong about the phrasing itself not being a hint, "Much like yourself" is apparently in the opening paragraph of Child of God so the guess is pretty solid.

>478 zorg2099: I do need to save some money somewhere.
Yeah, being a bibliomaniac is rough on the finances...

>479 astropi: My collection has already passed "the price of a really nice car". I'm trying to rein in my spending before it passes "the cost of a really nice house". ^_^

>480 Shadekeep: Oh wow, that makes me feel better!
Seriously though, you work hard for your money, you deserve to spend it on really great books! And let's be honest, until they make a self-driving car where you can just sit back and enjoy your fine press books, you don't really need a "really nice car" ;)

>481 astropi: Aye, I've never really been a car guy. In fact every single car I've owned has been a used car. Part of that motivation is just how terribly they depreciate as soon as you take it off the lot. That's money better spent on books!

>482 Shadekeep: I never realized that not being able to drive would help me win at book collecting, but now I see the light.

>483 ambyrglow: Also, think about how much we spend on things like "food" -- now imagine all that money going towards high-quality paper and ink works...

Are you suggesting high quality paper and ink are foods? Next tell me how coconuts migrate.

>485 Cardboard_killer: African swallows grabbing them by the husk?

>486 A.Godhelm: Well certainly not European swallows.

>486 A.Godhelm: African swallows are non-migratory.

>487 astropi: If two European swallows with the coconut tied to them. . .

Haha, I laugh in your general direction!

I like McCarthy’s style of writing. I’m a big fan of his Border Trilogy and Suttree. But I really have no interest in Child of God. That must be one of the most disturbing novels I’ve ever started. I’d recommend a brief read through of the summary before blind buying it because it’s McCarthy…

>490 CJR93: I'm with you here. Will have to pass.

A few additional copies of The Dragon Masters & The Last Castle Artist Edition popped up yesterday. Still 2 remaining if anyone's interested.

Child of God is one of those "not in a million years" would I ever expect a fine press edition, because it is just so unremittingly grim, even by McCarthy standards, which is pretty far out even at the mean. I wonder how many Suntup customers will finish reading their copy?

It is an amazing novel though.