Suntup Editions Books (4)

Wow! I knew the Last Unicorn was going to be huge...

Is that the *numbered* edition selling for $2k?

A lettered sold on the Facebook group recently for $3.3k

The lettereds (O and G) have been getting sold off some going for one third their initial cost - of course the discount depends on the title.

>2 howtoeatrat: Indeed it is. Crazy right? That said, I'm not surprised. Some titles are just hugely popular -- Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and also The Last Unicorn -- while arguably not as popular the aforementioned, Last Unicorn absolutely has a large following and this is without doubt the most magnificent edition of the book ever to be published. So yeah, probably will continue to appreciate in value. Congrats to everyone that managed to get a numbered copy, I hope you cherish it.

My classic edition of The Last Unicorn arrived today. Gorgeous endpapers, love the two-color printing, the fold-out illustration is lovely (but fills me with terror that I'm going to accidentally tear it).

>7 ambyrglow: Mine appeared on the porch as well today, going to open it up tonight.

>7 ambyrglow: This was my first Suntup edition in a while and I’m impressed. It feels on par with many of the previous numbered editions that were letterpress on Mohawk superfine with a full cloth binding like this.

Now I’m looking forward to my order of Life of Pi!

Are other people planning on putting a mylar cover on the jacket? The slipcase fit is tight enough that I'm worried about sliding the book back in if I do cover it.

I am new here, learning new things every day, thank you, everyone.

>10 ambyrglow:

I hadn't thought of mylar for the DJ, because between the slipcase and the fact that I keep the special books behind glass seems like protection enough.

The new release is up for pre-order: Kin by Kealan Patrick Burke

>13 Shadekeep: lovely bindings on the numbered and lettered. Too bad all are printed offset.

The illustrations aren't doing much for me. It looks like generic thriller paperback covers from the 90s.

>15 LeBacon: Fair, but they're probably meant to look like that :)
Also, got to give kudos to the author for being so talented as to illustrate his own works -- that's really fabulous! I will also say the author is good guy, I've corresponded with him and he's genuine. I know most of us are really into the letterpress work Suntup releases. That said, while his work is not as well-known as many other authors Suntup has published, the offset price differential compared to letterpress does make it far more affordable. I suspect it will sell out super quickly, but who knows.

Easy pass. Already got the CD version. If I didn't have that one, I would definitely buy.

I like the illustrations a lot and prefer no letterpress due to the price difference and since it really isn't that relevant to me. But unfortunately the topic doesn't appeal to me, so it's a pass although the edition is visually very appealing. Well, another time, I'm sure.

>14 abysswalker: My problem is that I just can't seem to find a modern horror author I enjoy. I'm pretty much limited to gothic and weird fiction from dead authors (or Clive Barker) until I can find one I like. I think the last one I tried that I even halfway enjoyed was Tender Is the Flesh by Agustina Bazterrica. I have no trouble finding new science fiction authors to like, it's only horror that proves challenging for me.

>19 Shadekeep: Have you read Ramsey Campbell? I highly recommend -- he's one of the few "horror" (although his stories are really in the "weird tales" genre) authors still alive today that I find interesting, unique, and well written. I did also enjoy "Guests" by Burke -- that said, his stories to tend to be a bit depressing at times.

Nice looking editions for sure. A bit iffy on the art myself but am impressed by such a well-rounded creator. Was intrigued about the numbered price differential between this ($350) and 'Guests' ($295 in 2021). Overall, about tracking with inflation.

I wonder how many are staying on primarily for Steinbeck next month. Hoping that it has a solid name attached to the afterword!

>19 Shadekeep: The last engaging horror I read was The Ruins by Scott Smith; try that one if you're unfamiliar. He writes with neat prose and momentum builds quickly, making it a breezy read.

>20 astropi: Campbell is a good one, though for some reason I always slot him in with the Lovecraft crowd, even though he's clearly a late addition. Probably because Arkham House was publishing him back in my college days. (Lumley ends up in the same bucket for those reasons, too.)

>22 a.friend: Thanks, I appreciate the recommendation! I should add that Jeanette Winterson puts out some readable horror-adjacent stuff as well, so she counts among my living author list.

>23 Shadekeep: Also, The Woman in Black is a fun and well written gothic from 1983. It's not amazing nor the most original story, but I enjoyed it. It's certainly much better than the 2011 film. I take it you've already ready through pretty much all of Shirley Jackson? To me, she's the epitome of the great modern "horror" writer. My favorite of her works is The Sundial :)

>22 a.friend: Interesting. That's another Cemetery Dance release. I hope Paul publishes that one too. LOL

>19 Shadekeep:

Apologies if this has been suggested to you, or if you yourself have mentioned it elsewhere, but have you read The Library at Mount Char by Scott Hawkins? Horror/dark fantasy that blew my mind.

>24 astropi: Agreed, and I've read (and re-read) Shirley Jackson with great pleasure. Same for Daphne du Maurier. I'm hoping to pick up Arion's version of The Sundial on their next sale, if it's still around by then.

>26 amysisson: It's not been mention to me, so thanks! It sounds a bit like Mordew by Alex Pheby, which I've picked up but not cracked open yet. Apparently it's really good too, so perhaps I should.

I received my copy of "Life of Pi" today, the illustrations look even better in person and both the slipcase and the quarter cloth binding are of this fascinating material that changes color depending on the angle you view it at. Overall, I'm quite pleased I purchased this one!

>28 ExLibrisDavid: I am equally impressed by Life of Pi classic. Really nice production! The dual cloth slipcase had me playing mind games looking at it coming down the stairs!

>28 ExLibrisDavid: >29 NotSoSlimShady:
Agreed! It's gorgeous. A few years ago if someone had told me you would be able to purchase a letterpress edition, signed by the artist and author, for under $200, I would have said "in what universe?" I think we all owe Suntup a thank you for really being the modern LEC and producing gorgeous and affordable books we all want.

Just received The Yellow Wallpaper. Suntup is on a roll.

The wood engravings with four-block color printing are probably the best illustrations and press work I've seen from this publisher, and I quite like the binding as well.

>31 NathanOv: It really did look lovely! But at that price, I'm going to have to content myself with the Clinker Press version.

>31 NathanOv: Got it here, it really does look and feel like Suntup's most "fine press" book to date. I hope more like this are on the slate.

>31 NathanOv: I noticed that Ascensius Press did the printing for this one - not surprised by the top-tier press work given that collaboration. Makes me wish I'd looked at this one while in stock - I love Scott's work.

>34 LBShoreBook: I think this one is peripheral to many Suntup customers' core collecting interests, so I wouldn't be surprised if you could find a secondhand copy at little to no markup, especially on the Facebook group if you watch for it.

>35 abysswalker: I'm not sure you've got that quite right. The last copy on eBay sold for over $600 total.

When Suntup does editions like this, or really anything that strays from their typical genre fare, they tend to be expanding their audience to a wider range of collectors.

>36 NathanOv: eBay sales are generally considerably higher priced than Facebook group sales for Suntup.

Collectible book vault has it at $285 for "fair market value" (which is less than list price), but only based on one sale. (I'd only rely on CBV for the collecting subculture around modern signed/limited, Suntup, etc., but it is a resource there.)

In any case, I don't speculate (in the financial sense), but my read on the community preferences is that if you watch and wait for someone wanting to make some shelf space on the Facebook group, you'll be able to find a copy reasonably priced.

Life of Pi took a little while longer to reach me but it's finally arrived, and it's gorgeous. The green and purple two-tone effect of the slipcase is very nice and I think FS did something similar with the Call of Cthulhu book (in that case leaning green). The pronounced texture of the paper, in combination with the letterpress, really give the text a dimensional look in the right light. Beautiful illustrations, author signature, really top notch work and my favourite so far alongside Animal Farm.
Hoping for more "Classic" state books in future.

May title is indeed Of Mice and Men.

Lettered edition really is the star of the show in my opinion.

https://suntup.press/of-mice-and-men/

I told myself I wouldn’t buy this if it was Mice and Men, not because I think it’s terrible, but just because it falls outside the range of my typical interest. In other words it’d be something I read once I exhaust my reading list in a couple of years, but even then not on fine press at first. But boy is that lettered edition just gorgeous.

>40 CenSur: This is definitely one of my favorite reads of all time. Would highly recommend the Folio edition on secondary if you're looking to pick up a very quality version at a fraction of the price! Great tactile experience in their edition.

The illustrations are hideous. Easy pass. Agree about better options out there at the fraction of the price. Still, I am hopeful we get more John Steinbeck titles from Suntup.

>42 Undergroundman: In regards to illustrations and illustrator's "exceptional contributions to Children’s Literature," it looks like one of his children contributed to this one ;).

And that cute, innocent rabbit with beady eyes on the cover of the Lettered... oh, wait...

Huh, the illustrations are what convinced me to pull the trigger even though I hadn’t planned to read this one again anytime soon!

Part of that is just the excellent reproduction they’ve described for this edition, but I also think I have pretty different tastes than the typical Suntup collector, and don’t tend to like a lot of their hyperrealistic or overly digital looking illustrations.

>42 Undergroundman: I may be in the minority for this one but I actually liked the art (but not 2x,5x, etc. more so than the Folio / Easton versions that both have very quality - and honestly similar themed art in the $100 range).

I think the thing that actually bummed me the most was the afterword contributor. I was really expecting a bigger name. Someone very connected to Steinbeck academically or an individual attached to the more recent film adaptation (John Malkovich, Gary Sinise, etc.). I think this one was going to be a bit difficult to please due to the number of choice out there already. But exciting new content would have been a big differentiator for me.

Not my favorite Steinbeck work (so I will pass). But the illustrations look great to me.

>45 NotSoSlimShady: John Malkovich would have been great, but I think Gary Sinise would have been more inclined to contribute. Aside actors, who else would of been a better choice? Another California writer?

>47 Undergroundman: I feel like the perfect high-profile writer introductions would be Cormac, seconded by Toni Morrison, and then finally Joan Didion which unfortunately couldn't happen. I would have to think more about California specific writers!

Back to movies - Director: Terrence Malick (Tree of Life, Badlands, Days of Heaven) would have been a dream (despite no direct Steinbeck relationship). I feel like his sense of cinematography is so close to how I perceive environment in Steinbeck novels.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think the illustrations are gorgeous. The yellow in the watercolor paintings immediately invokes the Depression, but the green is opportunity. The illustrator has done a lot of work (and won awards) for his children's illustrations. While M&M is certainly not children's literature, both protagonists are children in their own right, so I personally think the illustrations are also very apropos.

The Easton Press edition reprints the Fletcher Martin illustrations from the LEC. For the price, the EP edition is fabulous. All that said, Suntup's edition looks far more appealing than the LEC edition. Here are a couple of pictures of the LEC edition I found online --





ps Has there been any announcements/speculations on what comes after M&M?

ps2 Tough call, the lettered is very unique for sure, but all things considered, I think the numbered edition is ever so slightly more to my liking -

>49 astropi: June is a bit of a mystery right now. I think the majority believed it was Don Quixote - but while not denying it, Paul poured a bit of water on that guess in his last live stream. I've heard Divine Comedy, Count of Monte Cristo, and Tale of Genji as other somewhat popular guesses. I had originally hoped 100 Years of Solitude. Although that may be out because there is rumbling that Conversation Tree is picking that up later this year (not guaranteed).

>644 SF-72: on this page - JacobHolt has somewhat convinced me it is Tale of Genji.
https://www.librarything.com/topic/352529

>49 astropi: if I were to buy one of these, the numbered is far superior to the lettered IMO. That cover on the lettered .... not for me. 😂

The palette is pleasant, but figures in the illustrations look deformed. Quite a few of the recent books look great, but apart from the Last Unicorn, a lot of the art is a miss for me.

>52 What_What: I agree. It's interesting to me that the build specs on this are uniformly excellent (especially for the prices of the lower two states), and about half the art pieces work wonderfully for me (including 1-2 with figures), but the ones that don't work really don't work for me. The core book design is also classically pleasing (the ornamented title page and display breaks are lovely). I wonder if this is another Jerry Kelly production (wasn't obvious from the info page).

>53 abysswalker: Curious what piece(s) in particular don't appeal to you? I always found the Fletcher Martin illustrations in the LEC edition to be disappointing. Fletcher Martin is a great artist, but the illustrations in the book are basically sketches, at least that's exactly what it looks like. There are other LEC books in the same vein such as All Quiet on the Western Front -- and I can certainly respect anyone that loves that style, just felt half-finished for my taste. Currently the AE is over half sold.

>54 astropi: I do love the color palette used by the Suntup illustrations; the one that is two blue figures on yellow is great. The sitting at the river is nice. The over the shoulder overalls is not good; odd composition, dishwater colors, awkward anatomy. The hunched over one with the lady in back is not quite as bad but also doesn't work for me.

This artist's strength seems to be sunlit landscape; all of those are gorgeous. But the interior spaces not so much.

I'm not familiar with the LEC illustrations (this isn't a story that I need in a fine edition, so only something that truly blows me away would be compelling).

Easton Press lesser know edition Of Mice and Men from either the 6 or 8 volume John Steinbeck collection includes watercolor illustrations in black and white by Christopher Simon, which perhaps due to the lack of color are a bit underwhelming, but quite palatable...

>42 Undergroundman: Glad I'm not the only one who can see the faults in the illustrations. I was so ready to buy, especially after Paul teased the specs yesterday, but it looks awful.

Interesting how split we seem to be on the artwork! For me it’s a deal breaker and means I’m not interested in this version

>57 Inceptic: I had the same reaction. Even the increased price cf other AEs would be ok given that it's hand bound, but I just can't get past the art. For instance, in the one of them walking through the field, there's something very off about the proportions of Lennie Small. His head and neck are too large, or his right arm too small. I know he's supposed to be a big guy but it just looks odd, to me at least. Shame, as I was looking forward to this one.

>59 Levin40: I think it’s pretty clear from the artist’s general style here that the proportions weren’t meant to be realistic.

Total realism in art isn’t something that interests me. Unless it’s meant to be scientifically accurate, like in a nature work, I want to see the artist’s interpretation.

>60 NathanOv: The artist interprets everyone has extra long torsos and necks, and tiny little legs? Genuine question. It sounds like you’re saying the illustrator could’ve probably illustrated them with correct proportions - so what’s the philosophy with making them look that way?

>61 What_What: See page 2: http://bergenhighschool.com/Art%20Assignments/Art%20Talk/10%20-%203%20How%20Arti...

In several of the sample pieces, Lennie is specifically distorted alongside characters with fairly regular proportions. Faces and emotive features (e.g, Lennie's hung head) are emphasized. The characters fit into a general style that seems to be driven by the rustic pastoral, somewhat abstract landscapes.

Artists depict people and animals from photo-realistic to Picasso-like and everything in between. Looking at the illustrations I think they overall look great and none of the characters are so distorted as to looking hyperbolized. Also, if I understand correctly the illustrations will actually be tipped-in prints, which I know will look wonderful --

>62 NathanOv: Thanks Nathan. Maybe I’m just boring, I like normal looking people.

>53 abysswalker: “I wonder if this is another Jerry Kelly production (wasn't obvious from the info page).”

Idk if it was a recent update but the page names Mark Argetsinger as the designer. Between him and David Wolfe doing the printing, it’s shaping up to be a nice publication. I’m not on the Suntup bandwagon but I appreciate him seeking out quality printers and designers and I’m happy he also seems more open to crediting them than in the past.

>62 NathanOv: Well, of course I understand that artists sometimes exaggerate or emphasize certain characteristics. Cartoonists and caricaturists have been doing that since art was invented. But in the piece I was talking about, Lennie's proportions are far closer to someone with dwarfism than a person verging on being a giant. I'm not sure how that can be what was intended. It just looks wrong, to me at least.

>66 Levin40: So you’re saying that the artist managed to present him as both large and diminutive in one stroke. How fitting for the character.

I’m not arguing against anyone’s personal taste, the artist’s intent just seems quite clear. It’s obviously not a skills issue.

>67 NathanOv: Where did they say that?

>68 What_What: Who say what?

>69 NathanOv: Sounds like you're better at interpreting art than English ;-). I think he might be referring to the bit in your post >67 NathanOv: (directed at me) where you say 'So you're saying...'. I didn't actually say that btw, but if you think that the artist was simultaneously trying to represent Lennie as a giant and a dwarf by making him really oddly proportioned then...fair play, perhaps. Too clever by half for me though. Look, I'm glad it all works for you and that you think the intent is clear. Still doesn't work for me though, so we'll have to leave it at that.

The numbered edition is sold out. About 300 AE out of 500 are sold, so I would say that is definitely a success. When releasing such classics it's always hard to tell if there is enough demand, but I'm happy this work sold so well. While there are a gazillion and one fine press editions of Shakespeare (and I love Shakespeare) there are far far fewer Steinbeck, and in my opinion, this will be the finest Mice and Men published.

>70 Levin40: I think that if you can’t see how your comments saying that he’s a giant who gives off the impression of a small person can be synthesized into him appearing both large and diminutive, then you shouldn’t be questioning other people’s English comprehension.

Of course it’s not for everyone. But calling it an issue of the artists skills, as so many are doing, is clearly ridiculous when Lennie is the one character who’s consistently distorted in different ways throughout the artwork we see, and where it repeatedly mirrors themes from the text.

Assuming you’re talking about George and Lennie walking through the field, I believe that’s from when the two characters are both contrasted, and Lennie’s broad, sloping shoulders and limp hanging arms are the features called out in the text, exactly as are slightly overemphasized in the art to draw attention to his appearance which is repeatedly described as odd and somewhat off putting in the book. This is exactly as you seem to be interpreting it, yet are criticizing the artist’s skills for portraying him that way.

Wow, the artwork is so bad, people got off the lettered train!

>72 NathanOv: Oof. Keep trying mate.
>73 Inceptic: Seven people to be precise.

>73 Inceptic: It could be the art or that nearly $3k US dollars can buy several top-tier productions. I think the St James Park Press 1984 was less than that at issue.

>74 What_What: You are forcing your own ignorance at this point. This is one of the most notable recent illustrators to do a Suntup volume.

You do not have to like his work, everyone has different tastes, but deriding his skills as an artist when he has an award-winning 4 decade career simply because you don’t understand (and refuse to learn about) some incredibly basic art concepts that multiple people have tried to explain to you just leaves me baffled.

>73 Inceptic: There are 2 Lettered available and about 160 AEs. That means in less than a week 80% of the books have been per-ordered. How anyone can say this is anything less than a large success is beyond me. Also, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but clearly there are plenty of people that find the artwork appealing.

>73 Inceptic: I think the market might be making some collectors rethink their priorities. The lettered Rebecca was offered for $2750 on the Facebook group (against a cost of $4500 direct from Suntup), whilst Of Mice and Men is currently offered at $2500 (against a direct cost of $3000). Even if you wished to buy all Suntup lettered books it might make more sense to just buy them on the secondary market (accepting you will pay a large mark up on the one or two big hits each year) and this will still cost you less money.

I seem to remember that even the Last Unicorn lettered was offered at retail price on the Facebook group

Lettered are gone now.

>78 DMulvee: Do these cheap lettereds get sold with rights?

>80 Undergroundman: No

I love the art.

Just casting another vote!

I am wondering if anyone has gotten hold of a copy of the Richard Matheson chapbook ‘Born of Man and Woman’ that Suntup has just published? If so, what are your thoughts? It certainly looks an interesting project and you can’t go wrong with something printed by John Grice at Evergreen Press.

>83 ChestnutPress: I'd be interested in seeing more of that one as well.

>83 ChestnutPress: According to the Suntup site, it's not scheduled to go out until Fall 2024 (though they seem to be making good progress and I wouldn't be surprised if it were more like Summer, at least for the Numbered).

>85 A.Nobody: Interesting that it’s not actually published, as I thought it was all ready to go. Maybe the binding of the specials etc is holding it up.

>84 Shadekeep: It’s a handsome piece. I saw an incomplete set of sheets for one of the specials on Barcham Green Dover handmade when I saw John in December.

Hmm... I was looking at recent sales and saw this --



BUT - the seller - and these are indeed from the same seller, has another one listed!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/256463501552

I absolutely don't want to throw out any accusations without evidence, but that said, I know the numbered Last Unicorn was incredibly hard to get. How did this guy get so many copies? Legit, or something fishy?

>88 astropi: $2000?

>89 SDB2012: Apparently $2186.11
That said, I'm not necessarily surprised, I know some of the more desirable Suntup editions can hit those prices. What I'm interested to know is how can one seller have three numbered editions (or more) on pre-order?

Suntup's new announcement is for The Divine Comedy. https://suntup.press/the-divine-comedy/?mc_cid=ae67dae5cb

I was very excited when I saw the email but the editions themselves are mostly disappointing. Nothing new. The Roman Numeral edition has some beautiful initials and an excellent binding but otherwise this is a ripoff.

>91 TomsRiverNJ:

Yeah, only the highest tier does anything interesting and of course it's way out of most people's budget. Not that anyone would get a chance to even consider it with the subscription model.

Lots of Divine Comedies in the world and Blake's illustrations have never been my thing so easy pass. If Suntup is going to do classics I'd rather see them go the Yellow Wallpaper route and choose titles that aren't covered by so many other presses.

I like the style of the Numbered Edition as it seems like something a fine press would have put out a century or two ago. That being said, I would have much preferred new art for this edition. As it is it just doesn't grab me as something different enough to pursue. But it is a lovely edition and would be notable if there weren't so many other ones out there.

>92 MobyRichard: Yes, indeed, I agree. Well, that's good for my book budget this month

Edit – and there goes the first lettered already available in the Suntup's Facebook group

>94 Shadekeep: Look for the Limited Editions Club Divine Comedy. Similar binding and better paper and better printer but arguably worse translation. The best reading copy is the Stamperia Valdonega one for my money but it is not letterpress.

>94 Shadekeep: Definitely new art would have helped make this stand out.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but in this case the recent Folio limited edition far surpasses the Suntup version.

>96 a.friend: I've always favoured the Ciardi translation, which seems to have been generally relegated to trade paperbacks and classroom editions. If anyone knows of a fine edition with his take, I'd like to hear about it.

>97 LeBacon: I believe you. I quite enjoy the work of Neil Packer and it appears he did a splendid job there as well. Something equally striking would have really made this Suntup edition unmissable.

>98 Shadekeep: the 1977 Franklin Library edition in the 100 greatest books series is attractive and uses the Ciardi translation. The leather is of a nicer grade, the Dore illustrations are reproduced well, and it is printed in two colors.

>97 LeBacon: I'm very happy to skip this one and stay with my Folio LE...

It looks great, but I'm not in the market for more Divine Comedies.

>99 abysswalker: Sounds nice, thank you!

The Hollander translation, in a letterpress printing, on Mohawk laid paper, with Blake illustrations; who am I kidding, I am almost certainly in (I collect Dante in translation and also, to a lesser degree, work by and about Blake).

That said, I am put off by a number of design decisions. Which, when I type them all out, seem rather extensive.

First, Blake produced 102 drawings illustrating the Divine Comedy. If I am reading the Suntup page correctly, only four are included as illustrations. While it is true that some were left in partial stages of completion at Blake's death, far more than four deserve inclusion in an edition like this. And, to be honest, even the partially completed images are potentially quite interesting in a book illustration context. The Folio Society "fine" edition only uses Blake for Inferno (a different shortcoming), but I believe it includes a lot more than four of the illustrations.

Second, the commentary volume is softcover. I'm not opposed to fine works "in wraps" by any means, but this kind of binding does not serve the functional use or aesthetics of this particular edition. As a commentary volume, if one were to actually consult it while reading the poem, one is likely to be picking it up, setting it down, propping it open, etc., quite regularly. It deserves at least a solid buckram binding, akin to the style used by past Folio Society editions that include commentary volumes. This approach gives me the sense that it was designed for a consumer to store as an asset on a shelf rather than an object for a bibliophile or Dante enthusiast to enjoy. Also, there is an unpleasant mismatch when the volumes are seen side by side (flat versus rounded spine, no leather edge but using the same patterned paper). Too close but not close enough.

Third, though I quite like the idea I can see behind the numbered binding, the lack of pattern alignment on the spine looks sloppy. This affects the commentary volume as well.

Fourth, the segmented solander case looks clunky in the mockups (though this criticism only affects the higher states, happily). Given the different styles of binding for the two volumes, it also might not be the best way to protect the books, though that might not be a big deal.

Fifth, a custom cut metal ornament for canto headers sounded promising, but if you look at the images, as far as I can tell, it is a quite pedestrian little thing, basically a Florentine emblem italicized into a printer's leaf. And so small!

The standout feature of all states is the hand-painted, gilded capitals by Thomas Ingmire, but that is only part of the Roman Numeral, which has a limitation of five and, of course, a prohibitively high price. (Tangent: this Ingmire is the same Ingmire as worked on the most recent Foolscap Press Thomas Paine title.)

Also I actively dislike that Roman Numeral modernist binding. It does not harmonize with the poem itself, or Blake's take, or any other aspect of the production's allusive flourishes (which also, maybe when you think about it, don't really fit Blake either).

Given that the numbered is more or less a $1K line item, I may have just talked myself out of an immediate purchase. But, Hollander, letterpress... I guess I will see how I feel come Saturday.

P.S. re: missed opportunities. Imagine the following alternate universe Suntup takes:

1. Glorious quarto or folio three volume edition including all the Doré engravings along the lines of the Folio Society Gargantua LE. And mainline Suntup fans would be all over Doré, I imagine.

2. Barry Moser's illustrations (which have not seen the page of a fine production, as far as I know, only the decent but unremarkable University of California trade press edition) in a stark high modernist binding with all the nihilistic horror one could bring to bear.

Millimeter binding was fun a time or two but this is the 3rd in a row for Suntup's numbered editions at increasing price-points.

I think at times Suntup gets a tough time here, in part because they are so successful. However generally they are well designed and desirable. I’m not sure that correct choices were made with this title. I would much rather read the FS LE as there are three volumes and so they are slender and easier to read. I’m not sure a 1100 page book supplementary work is tempting - I really don’t think I would read this, 300 pages sure, but 1100 is quite a commitment.

An 1100-page softcover commentary volume, for something like TDC, which needs so much interpretation, really doesn’t make sense. But what am I saying, most people are going to buy it and put it on the shelf anyway.

>106 DMulvee: The commentary volume is the most interesting component for me. I'd definitely buy it as a standalone if offered (and if it was bound properly but you've all been over that).

>108 Ragnaroekk: It lends itself well to illustration so if there are in fact only a handful of illustrations it's a huge missed opportunity.

If they had used the Salvador Dali Divine Comedy illustrations I might have gone for it. Those are really interesting and there's one for each canto.

A lot of harsh opinions and humbugging on this thread. I am not much of a Suntup fan but I like the numbered. It reminds me of the aesthetics of the Allen Press's Life of Dante.

https://hindmanauctions.com/items/10524916-allen-press-boccaccio-giovanni-1313-1...

>90 astropi: The person might be a kind of agent or intermediary. We see some in Facebook groups. I think it more secure and efficient when the agent knows what he is doing. I sometimes used this kind of agent to buy or sell and was happy with the service.

>111 LBShoreBook: the numbered reminds me of the 1932 LEC in terms of binding design:



(Image taken from some online listing.)

>113 abysswalker: Yes, this is the kind of edition I was referring to when I said the Numbered felt like older fine press productions. I also concur that Barry Moser illustrations would have been very welcome. Though I would also have enjoyed brand new work. The reuse of Blake, and in a rather stinting amount, just doesn't wow me. I would also have liked to see the ornate capitals in each edition, and more of them.

There are a lot of nice touches in the various editions, I would just like a bit more boldness and extravagance. Possibly the production lifespan of the book involved a number of blind alleys and this was the result of various compromises along the way?

Some years ago I read through the Easton Press DLE with all the Dore illustrations. First, Dore was brilliant, no doubt about that! Some of the illustrations are just amazing, some of them a bit less memorable. That said, EP did a very nice facsimile, but it was a facsimile. I wish the quality of the illustrations were more vibrant. Again, not knocking on EP, they did a great job with what they were aiming to do, but it definitely was not "fine press" in the true letterpress sense. Also, the Cary translation was not particularly good nor lyrical.

I never did own the LEC edition, but as far as I am aware it has no illustrations. The cheapest I've seen a copy sell for is $200. Not gonna lie, I like some illustrations in my fine press books!

The FS LE is beautifully illustrated. Not fine press (letterpress), but a unique and lovely production for certain. BUT, why spend $1100+ on the LE when in my opinion the standard edition is even more beautiful -- I prefer the SE cover over the LE. And, the standard edition is $150.

I love Blake. I wish there was more Blake in the forthcoming edition, but I can also understand that adding significantly more Blake would likely significantly increase the price, and I'm guessing Suntup wants to keep the price below $1000 and frankly I think it's a great price. One of the real draws here is the commentary volume. Does anyone remember when the FS used to put commentary volumes in their LEs? I thought the commentary volumes were just wonderful, so it's lovely to have Suntup pick up the reigns and honestly, a work of this magnitude deserves a commentary volume!

At the end of the day, if you do not care about letterpress I would say go for the FS standard edition. If you want classic illustrations, I would say go for the EP DLE with the Dore illustrations, although copies these days typically are greatly overpriced and absolutely not worth the cost many are second-hand sellers are asking -- again, in my opinion. At the end of the day, I'm actually quite impressed with the Suntup edition and the more I read into it, the more appealing it becomes, although $900 is nothing to be sneezed at.

>111 LBShoreBook: You might be right, but if you hear that a company has spent five years on a book expectations will be very high

>115 astropi: Great points!

I think one downside to the FS edition is the lack of notes. I can perhaps understand omitting them from the limited edition with the aim to create an adulterated version in a small form factor. However, for a standard edition I think it's less justifiable. For me, comprehensive notes are a basic requirement for The Divine Comedy. How else is the average, especially first-time, reader to make sense of all the references to Dante's life, medieval Italian politics and culture, leading figures, popes, history; not to mention references to the bible, Ovid, Virgil, Homer etc., if one isn't very well versed in those texts? I don't think The Divine Comedy is a difficult work to enjoy, but understanding all those references enriched my reading and understanding immensely, and made the whole text so much more accessible.

Some readers will be happy to go along for the ride and just enjoy Dante's poetry, or else are already well informed about 14th century Florentine politics and celebrities. If not, the Penguin paperback or ebook version of Kirkpatrick's translation does include notes. It just seems a bit strange to have to keep the same text open and alongside you the whole time when it would have been easy to include the notes at the back of the book, asterisk them within the main text, and make a definitive quality press edition.

There's obviously a difference between scholarly and fine/quality press versions (so it's nice that Suntup is somewhat uniting the two with their editions), but notes are pretty indispensable, IMO.

>115 astropi: >117 GardenOfForkingPaths:
I’ve only read the Cary translation in the EP DLE, so I’m not qualified to compare translations. I must say, though, that Cary’s extensive notes equal or exceed those of any other publcation I have seen — a real selling point. And they are in the form of footnotes so that I don’t have to constantly flip pages.

>118 jroger1: Definitely! Cary's notes are excellent and really helpful. I enjoy the gravitas of his translation, though I understand if some people find it a bit dated now. I like it enough to consider getting the Nonesuch Press edition one day.

Still, great that Suntup are doing this work in a modern translation. Hopefully it will be a success for them.

>118 jroger1: >119 GardenOfForkingPaths: Not to be a contrarian, but I found the translation rather dull and uninspired. I also did not find Cary's notes all that interesting nor illuminating.
For example --
https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/1008/pg1008-images.html#cantoII.IX

. 67. That to the eye of man. “That the ways of divine justice are often inscrutable to man, ought rather to be a motive to faith than an inducement to heresy.” Such appears to me the most satisfactory explanation of the passage.
v. 82. Laurence. Who suffered martyrdom in the third century.
v. 82. Scaevola. See Liv. Hist. D. 1. 1. ii. 12.
v. 100. Alcmaeon. Ovid, Met. 1. ix. f. 10.

"Outdated" is perhaps the best adjective. Not that Cary's notes are completely devoid of substance, but I don't think most of us are going to rush and open our Ovid and search for some reference which is supposedly tied to the Divine Comedy -- more power to you if you do! Overall, I feel that Cary's notes assume you either have at your desk a lot of academic works, or you already are completely familiar with classical works by Ovid, Virgil, etc. and of course the Bible.

All that said, I think the Suntup edition will be far better in just about every way -- in particular having a modern commentary volume that really delves into the history, allusions, politics, etc. AND is readable by non-experts is something that such a work deserves and is honestly quite exciting.

>120 astropi: you don't need to pay fine press prices to get a nice, informative, offset-printed commentary on the Divine Comedy in a separate volume.

Mazzotta's book Reading Dante is not a bad starting place, based on his open Yale course.

I'd also recommend Columbia's digital Dante website, particularly the "intertextual Dante" part, since Dante's heavy use of allusion is more or less an early form of hypertext anyways.

https://digitaldante.columbia.edu/intertexual-dante-vanpeteghem/

>120 astropi:
Some of us like the Cary translation and some don’t.

Some of us appreciate the notes, some don’t, probably many don’t care, others would prefer them to be in the back of the book or in a separate volume.

It sounds like a typical bibliophile disagreement, but at least most of us seem to agree that Dore’s illustrations are marvelous. :-)

>120 astropi: Fair enough :) Translation preferences are so personal - one person's meat can really be another's poison. Just look at opinions of Pevear and Volokhonsky!

As for the notes, you raise a fair point. I'd forgotten about their deficiencies in that respect. Knowledge of the bible and classical works was probably assumed in the 19th century, which isn't helpful for lots of modern readers. I still think that some of the notes are excellent, but others certainly do leave one wishing for more. I remember feeling that I got a lot out of them, but to each their own.

>122 jroger1: Well summarised!

Apologies for derailing this Suntup thread a bit.

>123 GardenOfForkingPaths: No worries, I don't think you derailed this thread. I do appreciate different opinions and viewpoints regardless of whether I agree with them all or not :)
I do appreciate Cary's notes, but I would imagine with his limited knowledge a much more comprehensive scholarly work is warranted. As >121 abysswalker: noted, you absolutely do not need to pay fine press price for a good work on Dante. That said, I guess I just find stuff like that more "appealing" if it's "built-in" to my fine press work. So, overall it sounds like many people are going to pass, but I bet it will sell out quickly.

>118 jroger1:

I definitely prefer footnotes (or notes in the margins in some cases) to having to go to the end of the book, let alone another volume.

And I'm also in the group that prefers to get some explanations and I regret that FS are not doing a good job at all in that area.

>125 SF-72: I too prefer footnotes. Though I can understand how they might not be included in some fine press takes, if the designer is going for a certain page aesthetic. Typesetting them has got to add to the work as well, if it means you have to keep reflowing set type when you discover the footnotes need more room.

I would likely consider at least a numbered edition of this title at a much lower price point. I have the Edizioni Valdonega with the Hollander translation and the Monika Beisner illustrations, which is not letterpress. I like the idea of a single, more readable (smaller) edition of the Comedia, but, as others have noted, the Folio Society standard edition provides that (albeit in a less desirable translation). I don't believe this offering checks enough boxes for me to justify the expense.

Too many Divine Comedy options out there to buy the Suntup. Which I am not a fan of anyway. Still, I get why they published it. Guessing it's way cheaper to publish a book that's in the public domain.

>128 Undergroundman: the Hollander translation is not in the public domain.

A more unusual Divine Comedy is the one done by Facsimile Finder. See https://www.librarything.com/topic/341906
Available in English and Italian.

>103 abysswalker:

The trade edition Moser advertises an upcoming limited, presumably letterpress, edition but they never went through with it apparently.

Congrats to Suntup for basically selling out in less than 24 hours! I think there's one Lettered copy available and a lottery for the Roman Numeral -- but otherwise, all gone!

So, has there been any announcements on what the next books might be?

>133 Ragnaroekk: Cool :)
So... what are people hoping for? I'm guessing at some point we'll get some Lovecraft, I would LOVE LOVE to see a fine press The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath... sigh...

>135 Ragnaroekk: Great list.
I second Lord of the Flies! Did you purchase the FS LE of Roadside Picnic? Easton Press released a beautiful signed edition of Cat's Cradle -- not letterpress, but otherwise a wonderful production. I also second Planet of the Apes, in fact I'm surprised no one has given this the royal treatment yet! I would love to see Le Guin's Earthsea, in fact, I think it's only a matter of time before it happens. Stephen King will always be an instant sell-out, I feel he's almost a bit too popular if that makes sense. I do think Suntup will do more Cormac McCarthy at some point. I would like to see The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle, although I'll be honest, I was hoping Suntup would publish The Tale of Genji rather than The Divine Comedy. I read American Psycho years ago -- it was not my thing. I thought the original Psycho was much better. And yes, you can never have too much Weird Fiction in your life :)

>134 astropi: Maybe will be part of the Conversation Tree Press Weird series.
Definitely would love to see a CTP treatment of this title.

>99 abysswalker: I don't have the funds to even consider these upscale releases but I wanted to second this recommendation of the Franklin Library version, which can often be found surprisingly cheap online.

>135 Ragnaroekk: We have surprisingly similar tastes. I'd be interested in most of these. I have a particular fondness for seeing "trash" literature in fine form. FS dipped their toes into it with Trainspotting and Fear and Loathing. I'd like to see American Psycho and something from Burroughs or Hubert Selby Jr from fine press as well.

>137 Ragnaroekk: I would love a version of Bret Easton Ellis's 'The Shards' to correspond with the upcoming HBO show. Really solid read and utterly horrifying at times.

The next round of clues are out now for the July-September 2024 titles.

July

On Wednesday, July 17th at 9 a.m. PT, I will broadcast live on Facebook. We will announce the first title of the quarter on Thursday, July 18th at 9 a.m. PT, at which time the Artist edition will be available for pre-order. Matching Pre-Orders will begin at this time, going to Lettered and Numbered owners of the Divine Comedy. If there are any copies of the Lettered or Numbered editions remaining after the Matching Pre-Orders, depending on quantities these copies will be available for purchase either by lottery or directly through the online store beginning on Saturday, July 20th at 9 a.m. PT.

Everybody, have you heard? This book won the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction. It was also the #1 most requested non-genre book in one of our surveys. The book is available in three states: Lettered, Numbered and Artist. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies, the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies and the Artist edition is limited to 500 copies. All copies are printed letterpress. The Lettered & Numbered editions are signed by the author of the afterword and the artist. The Artist edition is signed by the artist.

August

On Wednesday, August 14th at 9 a.m. PT, I will broadcast live on Facebook. We will announce this title the following day, Thursday, August 15th at 9 a.m. PT, at which time the Classic edition will be available for pre-order. Matching Pre-Orders will also begin at this time, going to Lettered and Numbered owners of the title announced on July 18th. If there are any copies of the Lettered or Numbered editions remaining after the Matching Pre-Orders, depending on quantities these copies will be available for purchase either by lottery or directly through the online store beginning on Saturday, August 17th at 9 a.m. PT.

This epic masterpiece won the author the Bram Stoker Award for Best Novel. Despite what the title might suggest, it would not be his last. In one of our surveys, this novel ranked within the top 5 most requested titles by our customers. The book is available in three states: Lettered, Numbered and Classic. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies, the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies and the Classic edition is limited to 850 copies. The Classic edition is published as a single volume, while the Lettered & Numbered editions are published as two volumes. All copies are signed by the author and artist.

September

On Wednesday, September 18th at 9 a.m. PT, I will broadcast live on Facebook. We will announce our final book of the quarter on Thursday, September 19th at 9 a.m. PT. Matching Pre-Orders will also begin at this time, going to Lettered and Numbered owners of the title announced on August 15th, as well as to Numbered owners of "The Yellow Wall-Paper" with a designation of 251-340 and Numbered owners of The Amityville Horror with a designation of 341-350. Matching Pre-Orders for Roman Numeral owners of the Divine Comedy with a designation of I-V and Roman Numeral owners of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory with a designation of VI-X will also begin at this time. If you were one of the first 1000 to join the wait list for this title in October 2022, you will receive a special pre-order link for the Classic edition at this time. If there are any copies of the Roman Numeral, Lettered or Numbered editions remaining after the Matching Pre-Orders, depending on quantities these copies will be available for purchase either by lottery or directly through the online store beginning on Saturday, September 21st at 9 a.m. PT. Remaining copies of the Classic edition will also go on sale at this time.

Have you guessed it yet? Winner of the Hugo, Nebula, Locus, SFX and Bram Stoker Award for Best Novel, this fantasy novel was an instant classic upon publication, and is widely considered to be one of the author's most admired and ambitious works. Likewise, it is our most ambitious project to date. The book is available in four states: Roman Numeral, Lettered, Numbered & Classic. The Roman Numeral edition is limited to 10 copies, the Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies, the Numbered edition is limited to 350 copies and the Classic edition is limited to 1250 copies. All states are printed letterpress. Also included are two sequel novellas by the author. The Classic edition is published as a single volume, while all other states are published as two volumes. All copies are signed by the author and artist.

>139 A.Godhelm: Ellis is great. The Evelyn Waugh of his generation. I'd love fine editions of American Psycho, Less Than Zero, and Glamorama (at least).

>136 astropi: apart from the shared word in the titles, and the occurrence of murder as a plot element, I don't see much similarity between Bloch's Psycho (which is a vaguely Freudian thriller) and American Psycho, which is much more of a social commentary.

August is presumably McCammon's Swan Song and September is obviously American Gods but I have no idea about July.

So American Gods is coming in September! Good to have a date. My best guess on August is "The Cabin at The End of The World," though frankly the clue doesn't make 100% sense with any of the Stoker winners.

No clue on the July title with the Pulitzer, but I'd love to see "All The Light We Cannot See," "The Overstory" or "The Underground Railroad."

EDIT: Ah, Swan Song does make most sense for August.

I too don't have a guess for July yet, though I'm wondering if "Everybody, have you heard?" is an oblique reference to the book and not just a salutation. Seems to be a dead author, since no signature from them unlike the other two. Unless it's Pynchon or some other author who doesn't do signings.

I scanned the Pulitzer list and nothing obvious jumped out for that clue. Must be a direct reference in a book I haven't read.

>145 Shadekeep: I do think it's a reference to the book, but that doesn't get me far! The best I can guess is To Kill a Mockingbird, based on the 1970s song "Mockingbird" that opens "Hey everybody, have you heard? He's gonna buy me a mockingbird." But that's...pretty tenuous.

>147 ambyrglow: This was all I found as well. Pretty esoteric, but a strong possibility!

>147 ambyrglow: To Kill a Mockingbird is as good a guess as any, especially if it's a "most requested non-genre" title. That means a broadly popular classic, right?

>147 ambyrglow: I do believe you've sussed it out! I was wondering if they might be doing A Confederacy of Dunces, but this is far more likely, and the clue seems to seal it.

I'm surprised that the limitation for the numbered edition of American Gods isn't higher. The interest in it would certainly be there and should have become clear when people were asked to express their interest in the different editions. Considering how long the novel is, having it in two volumes would be a lot more pleasant than in one, which is an important factor to me.

Since I don't have any numbered rights, I would like to say here that if anyone isn't interested in the novel but would buy it anyway to retain their rights, I would greatly appreciate it if they would send me a message if they should be willing to sell it. I know any hope for that is probably pretty slim, but it can't hurt to ask.

>151 SF-72: They could probably sell more, but I believe it’s their highest limitation in at least 2 years if it’s carrying rights from Amityville, and is also set to have a generous limitation of letterpress printed classics.

>152 NathanOv:

Thank you, that's interesting.

>141 Shadekeep: Everybody, have you heard?
The bird is the word? Mockingbird that is?

>155 A.Godhelm: That old song popped into my head as well. 😊

>155 A.Godhelm: >156 Shadekeep:
I was thinking this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIRr59APg38

>158 Ragnaroekk: I purchased the Classic Edition and could not be happier -- the letterpress is indeed fabulous! Curious if anyone has read any other works by Martel?

The July book is up, and it is indeed To Kill a Mockingbird: https://suntup.press/to-kill-a-mockingbird

Printed letterpress on various papers by edition, and understatedly attractive.

>147 ambyrglow: And an excellent guess it was. To Kill A Mockingbird is up. Not the sort of thing I'm collecting but it is very pretty in all of the editions for those interested.

>160 Shadekeep:
It is a good selection attractively presented, but one illustration every 50 pages isn’t enough to entice me to part with $235.

The illustrations are good, but the design is very bland. Shame, because I really was looking forward to this one. Pass.

Edited my earlier post to include the touchstone. I wanted to add that the interior design reminds me powerfully of some of the final books from the Limited Editions Club, for instance Everything That Rises Must Converge.

>163 Undergroundman: I would say more tasteful and understated than bland. It seems right for this title. It's refreshing to see something simple, classic, letterpress and free from instagram garishness and tacky marketing gimmicks.

>165 LeBacon:

That's my impression, too. It fits this title. I regret that the illustrations aren't better when it comes to the depiction of faces, but otherwise this is a very nice edition. I bought it.

>166 SF-72: "I bought it." So did I... 😊

>166 SF-72:
>167 Dr.Fiddy:

Same here! I Really like the binding design, the laid paper for the text, and the use of other interesting materials. The illustrations look excellent and appropriate, and it's great that they will be printed on a quality textured paper that should really enhance the watercolour art. Page design should be in extremely safe hands with Jason Dewinetz. Lots of boxes ticked and seemingly great value too. It turned out to be one of the easiest book buying decisions of the year for me.

This will be my first letterpress Suntup book and first Suntup book ordered directly from the publisher. I just have a few of their offset books (Johnny Got His Gun, The Collector, and Schindler's Ark) all acquired second-hand.

I like it. My first Suntup order since Pi

>166 SF-72: When I first checked out the illustrations I wondered if there might be a deliberate vagueness about them. That allows one to project a degree of their own visualisation onto the characters. And it avoids them becoming a pastiche of the famous movie visages. Initially I thought they were a bit oversimplified too, but now I rather like the ambiguity.

I think the cover to the lettered edition is sublime! If only I had the money... but, I think the AE is the second most attractive cover and obviously far more affordable :)
54 copies left as of 18:48 EST

>172 astropi: 44 left 45 minutes later after my purchase. Glad there were still some left when I got home from work.

24 available now. My first Suntup Artist Edition.

Just grabbed the last copy!

Suntup judged that spot-on -- 500 copies gone in under 12 hours!

>176 astropi: 500 copies of the Artist edition, and I guess that the Numbered (including one for me) and the Lettered are all gone too!

FS should investigate !😊

>176 astropi: They did indeed! A winning choice, and a solid design in my opinion.

I think there were a few numbered editions today and I heard it sold in about 2 minutes! There is a lottery for at least one Lettered edition -- if anyone has enough dough to enter more power to you and good luck, it's a beauty!

I managed to nab one before it sold out, to a large degree because of how happy I was with Life of Pi which had the same letterpress on Mohawk Via Laid paper production. The other part of the equation was my disappointment with FS 1984 LE. Made this look a damn steal with the money burning a hole in my pocket.

Received Hell House this weekend, looks nice so far.

Received The Island of Dr Moreau, numbered, as new from Ebay.
I find the binding and paper a bit too "classic", for my taste!

Yes, that about what I paid for, around US500 postage included to Switzerland!

>182 Maretzo: I think Suntup nailed Island of Doctor Moreau on the head! It's exactly how it should be, and the only fine and letterpress edition I'm aware of :)

You are right that it is probably the only letterpress edition. Still the binding of the numbered edition is not to my personnal taste. It is often that I would prefer the binding of the artist edition compared to the numbered one! But I do not want to lose my place in the row of the matching number ! 😁

Jeez. That Swan cover is not purty. Will stick with subpress. I am going to try, and get the numbered. Doubt I will be able to snatch one though. :(

>188 Ragnaroekk: Yeah, it's a bit like The Stand. Probably his best work. Still, I much prefer the subpress cover.

I do like the design of the Lettered Edition, but good luck getting one. None of them seem to be letterpress, unless I overlooked something (quite possible).

If it helps:

I once read King's The Stand and Swan Song almost back to back, and while there are many similarities, they are very different in execution and resolution.

Assuming that some of you good folk on this thread have received your copies of Matheson’s ‘Born of Man and Woman’, what are your thoughts?

>187 Undergroundman: You mean the dust jacket art? To teach their own of course, but I think it looks great. From my experience, Subterranean Press editions are quite inferior to Suntup in most every way. I can understand liking the illustrations more, that of course is a matter of taste. But having owned a number of Subterranean Press works, I don't think they're in the same league. Suntup really is, for the most part, a fine press that also does some offset printing -- as in this case, and I assume that's to keep it affordable. Subterranean is entirely offset, and they never seem to state the paper they use, the binding (which is often okay but not much more), etc.

>191 Ragnaroekk: Agreed. A large work, I assume having it all done letterpress would have made the cost unfeasible for most. As it stands, it looks lovely and signed by the author -- a huge bonus in my book :)

>195 Ragnaroekk: I’m glad I’m not alone in thinking it looks great. Like you, I have a standard, which is really handsome. John Grice showed me a set of sheets of a Barcham Green Dover copy and they looked exceptional!

>194 astropi: It does seem to be too large to make letterpress a reasonable approach for Suntup on this one. I was just curious if one of the editions happened to be and I overlooked it. I don't need every title to be letterpress to make it appealing to me, as some of my other purchases attest. And in this case it wouldn't have made a difference anyway, as this isn't a book I would have gone for regardless.

I do think the artwork is nice on this one, certainly better than some other titles they've done, and the bindings are nice. Again, the Lettered is especially attractive.

>197 Shadekeep: I agree, the Lettered is beautiful. I actually think the Numbered is very well done too. At the end of the day, since money is a limiting agent, I'm going for the Classic -- by the way, less than 100 copies remain.

4:41 -About 60 left, wow! Congrats to Suntup, will be sold out shortly.

5:35 -15 left...

All gone.

No surprise that the Numbered is sold out. Congrats to everyone that got a copy!

>192 St._Troy:

Is it better than The Stand, in your opinion? I’m not a fan of King’s writing.

>201 User2024: Absolutely not. McCammon is a wonderful author, read all of his books, and Swan Song is an excellent read (although I liked it less upon a recent re-read), but The Stand is the better of the two - no contest. Not sure you'll be agreeing though, seeing you're not a fan of King's writing.

SWAN SONG vs THE STAND
https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/8rwpxr/swan_song_vs_the_stand/

Just one comment from someone who read both: I can't say either is better than the other. It's two really skilled authors doing an epic story across the world. I do like the characters in swan song better. They feel less like paper dolls that are dressed up and interchangeable. There's more depth to them. In the stand, every character feels less like a person and more like a role that needs to be filled.

I have not read The Stand, but I have read a number of Stephen King books and I agree with the above. King knows how to create an atmosphere of dread and suspense, but his characters in every single book I have read of his are always one-dimensional and are more like cardboard cut-ups than multifaceted and compelling characters.

>202 frik51: How long was the gap between reads, and why did you like it less? Different outlook on life now?

>202 frik51:

Interesting, I’ve never read McCammon. Good feedback.

>204 Undergroundman: Decades. Read it upon release, late eighties, loved it, and did a re-read a couple of years ago. Lol, yes, much older, not sure about wiser, not sure about many things, including why I initially loved the book, and now I just liked it. Honestly have no idea.

>205 User2024: Thank you.

>201 User2024: I prefer The Stand (in particular, I think King runs circles around McCammon when it comes to creating and presenting characters), but some prefer Swan Song, and since you dislike King, you may well be among them.

>203 astropi: I do like the characters in swan song better. They feel less like paper dolls that are dressed up and interchangeable. There's more depth to them. In the stand, every character feels less like a person and more like a role that needs to be filled.

>208 St._Troy: I think King runs circles around McCammon when it comes to creating and presenting characters)

Interesting those two completely opposite opinions about the two books. Makes me more intrigued to read Swan Song.

>209 Levin40: I've always thought characters are a strength of Kings compared to many genre writers.

>210 SDB2012: Agreed. Honestly all of the characters in The Stand stand out to me as being some of the strongest in any genre novel I’ve read, but Frannie and Harold were especially memorable.

>210 SDB2012: Don't get me wrong, King is incredibly talented and will undoubtedly go down in history as the most successful horror writer. That said, I've always found his characters stereotypical. Be it the gentle giant John Coffey in The Green Mile, or the alcoholic Jack Torrance in The Shining, the obsessed Annie Wilkes in Misery, etc. to me they are all fairly one-dimensional. Their motivations often seem shallow and callous. But, it really doesn't matter because he's just building up for "the exciting stuff". That said, his works are for the most part fun and entertaining. But, I've always enjoyed more classical "horror" such as Arthur Machen, Poe, Lovecraft, etc. For me, it will be interesting to read Swan Song and see how it compares to King's style :)

>213 Ragnaroekk: Just grabbed the numbered as well! Outer design reminds me of Lyra's Oz a bit. Really love the style.

>213 Ragnaroekk: if the regular numbered had the red leather of the PC copies…. ❤️

Anyone have the prices for the non-Classic editions? Classics were $295 pre-tax/shipping and I'm wondering what the others were at.

I think the Lettered edition in particular is going into my "If I won the lottery..." spreadsheet.

I got a classic - I was on the wait list - but would love to get a numbered, too. I like them best of them all when it comes to the design of the binding. Beautiful.

>216 jskalitz:

The prices are at the bottom of this page:

https://suntup.press/american-gods/

>218 SF-72: doh, thanks for that!

It looks like a gorgeous edition from Suntup. Will it instantly sell out? Or considering the recent accusations against Mr. Gaiman, will there be copies remaining?
https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/neil-gaiman-movies-tv-shows-canceled.html
In the wake of sexual assault allegations made by five separate women, the production of multiple Neil Gaiman TV shows and movies has been put on hold or canceled altogether. While the much-maligned author has not yet been formally charged by authorities regarding the severe allegations, Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, and Disney have all hit the pause button on the future development of projects related to Gaiman.

Can an author be separated from their work? Age old question. I personally don't think so, at least not entirely. I know this is a big matter of debate. Regardless, my guess is that this edition will very quickly sell out.

>220 astropi: Was never of fan of his, so I never had plans on buying it. I can't support a certified creep. I feel terrible for Paul. I am sure he was was heartbroken when he heard the news. Scary how kind of a man Neil seemed. Creep.

Must say, Paul did a great job with this title.

>222 Undergroundman:
It isn’t fair to call him a “certified creep” until charges are filed and proven. It is important to note that he has denied the allegations.

i don't care at all. polanski is a great director. gibson is a great actor. nabokov is a great author. frost is a great poet. watson is a great scientist. i don't care i will absorb the great contributions that move us as a race forward and ignore the other stuff
how do you folks like gaiman as a writer? we discussed him in the other thread and people are lukewarm on him

>223 jroger1: He made them sign NDA's, and several companies have cut ties with him. They wouldn't stop the money train if they didn't know the severity of the allegations.

I agree, I don't think it's fair to call someone "guilty" until the allegations have been substantiated. That said, it also really depends on what they're "guilty" of. I'll be honest, Gaiman has always struck me as a stand-up guy, so the allegations were a bit disappointing. But again, I'm not going to damn someone only on accusations which may end up being baseless, or not. We will find out. >221 Ragnaroekk: Again, not condoning it in any way, but of course "sexual misconduct" is a broad range and as you noted not the same thing as rape.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2024/sep/13/neil-gaiman-screen-adaptations-hal...
Gaiman has strongly denied any unlawful conduct. One woman, whose first name is Scarlett, alleged that Gaiman performed sexual acts on her without her consent when she was working as a nanny for the author's family in New Zealand. Gaiman said they only engaged in consensual acts.
Again, I don't know the details, but of course there are power dynamics at play, and also the allure of fame with someone as famous as Neil Gaiman.

>224 TomsRiverNJ: As far as I can tell, it sounds like Polanski did the right thing (at least in the eyes of the law) and then got stabbed in the back by the judge --
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Polanski#Sexual_abuse
Gailey's attorney confirmed the judge changed his mind after he met the judge in his chambers: "He was going to sentence Polanski, rather than to time served, to fifty years. What the judge did was outrageous. We had agreed to a plea bargain and the judge had approved it."

Can't blame Polanski for fleeing, and yes, I think he's a great director. I draw my line at Gibson -- huge antisemite, misogynistic, racist... that's too much for me. As much as the original Mad Max is a classic, it's ruined now by Gibson. I guess we all have our line in the sand :)

>223 jroger1: No - he has denied doing anything unlawful, not denied all accusations. With one accuser 21 at the time and Gaiman 61, on her first day of working for Gaiman (and his wife), it is alleged Gaiman got into a bath with her (unasked), and a sexual act occurred. Defenders can say this was consensual (which she denies) but the power imbalance between a 21 and 61 year old, whilst the 21 year old is an employee and on her first day of employment is impossible to ignore.

>227 DMulvee:
I do not intend to debate law or ethics here. This is a thread about books.

>228 jroger1: Yet you felt the need to defend Gaiman in >223 jroger1:. I think we can safely assume there’s not a coordinated conspiracy between these women to make false allegations against Gaiman. Even if the veracity of the allegations isn’t yet confirmed, wouldn’t it be better to put Gaiman projects on hold while it’s sorted out? It’s frankly shocking that Suntup released their book today rather than issue a statement and postpone. They’re asking their customers to put money in the pocket of a living person who has (sure, “allegedly”) done abhorrent things (>226 astropi: maybe you need to read up on this since you somehow dismiss it in your comment: “”sexual misconduct" is a broad range and … not the same thing as rape.” FYI - nonconsensual sex is rape.) This is not a case of “Gill is dead so what difference does it make, I can separate the art from the artist.” This is you casting your financial vote to support a man credibly accused of terrible acts of assault against women. So go ahead all of you with no scruples and buy the books and ratify the behavior and help Gaiman pay his legal fees. Thank you >222 Undergroundman: and >227 DMulvee: for not defending him.

>229 ChampagneSVP: It’s frankly shocking that Suntup released their book today rather than issue a statement and postpone. They’re asking their customers to put money in the pocket of a living person who has (sure, “allegedly”) done abhorrent things

That's one way of looking at it. Frankly I would a imagine that Gaiman has already been paid for his contribution to this particular edition - which as far as I can tell is only the signature. So the people you'd really be punishing are Suntup and their collaborators: the artist, designers, printers, binders etc. No of these contributors would have known anything about the allegations while the project was ongoing. Even if you agree that Gaiman should be punished/cancelled, is it fair to punish them for his actions? I'm still in two minds about this but might well purchase the Classic edition. The illustrations are gorgeous and I'm an admirer of Nomad Letterpress's work.

>229 ChampagneSVP: I think that given some Suntup rights holders would have been holding rights in order to purchase this title, then postponing wouldn’t be fair. I don’t think there is an easy answer here, and purchasers will need to make their own mind up.

I for one appreciate the fact that Suntup didn't join the current cancel culture and upheld their contract, which - as stated above in post 230 - didn't just concern Gaiman, but a lot of other people. He most likely already had his money, which can't legally be withheld from him after all. The contract must have been valid for quite some time and a lot of the production aspects already over and done with.

As for Gaiman himself: What has become of innocent until proven guilty? 'Let's punish / cancel as soon as there are accusations' has gone badly wrong before, including ruined careers when someone didn't do anything wrong legally, in a lot of cases not at all.

I can't claim to know the absolute truth about these accusations - nobody here can and it's up to everyone to decide for themselves whether or not they want to buy a Gaiman book in the future or not. That being said, I find it problematic that so much of the background is usually left out when this topic is brought up. So I'll provide that here: Gaiman has been actively supporting trans rights for decades and had recently become a lot more outspoken on social media, especially when it came to comments against J. K. Rowlings by him and by others in his threads on social media. The tone was very intense and negative, and would have angered people who see things differently in that area. Then a podcast run by a supporter of Rowling's anti-trans stance published statements by some of Gaiman's exes in which they complained about him. A main aspect was in particular some things having gone wrong in consensual BDSM relationships. More than one celebrity has been cancelled when their BDSM leanings were made public because people who aren't in that scene automatically see things as abusive that would be considered normal there as long as people are in a consensual BDSM relationship. In addition, one woman that said that he'd kissed her against her will also stated in the podcast that she wrote to him about why this was a serious problem for her, and was very positively surprised because he expressed his gratitude for that. Being autistic, he said to her, he often has a problem reading signals right and can't learn to do better unless people tell him when he's doing something wrong. Both issues - BDSM and autism - need to be considered in this context. Yes, he had relationships with much younger women (it's clear that him being a celebrity opens doors there) and with the nanny or a fan. Tasteful or what you might call decent? Certainly not. A crime punishable by ending his career (and damaging those of other people involved in his projects)? Personally, I would say only if he's proven guilty in a more reliable context than an opponent's podcast that published statements by ex-girlfriends who may or may not hold a grudge or have other reasons for this that have nothing to do with actual crimes having been committed. It certainly looks like things sometimes did go wrong in his relationships, but again, I myself would like to be sure that they were criminally wrong before cancelling someone.

>231 DMulvee:

>232 Ragnaroekk:

Exactly.

It's not so much what Gaiman's done that's the problem (though that is definitely a problem) as it is that it runs so firmly counter to the image he's worked very hard for many years to put out there. Especially as he's deliberately cultivated a fanbase particularly sensitive to these kinds of issues.

If anyone's to blame for audiences turning away from Gaiman it's Gaiman himself. He's been promoting himself as something he's clearly not, and it must have been obvious to those around him that at some stage or another the truth would come out and that would damage his brand.

>236 Ragnaroekk: I’m not making any judgements on the alleged sexual assaults/rape. However that he as a 61 year old employed a 21 year old and shared a bath with her on her first day of employment has not been denied. This is an abuse of power that crosses the line for me.

Would I buy a book of his in the future? No. I had been looking forward to this edition once it was announced, and I think Suntup has done (as usual) an excellent job. My opinion is that if I purchase his works, this leads to him having more money and fame (however minutely) which would make it more likely that these events could reoccur in the future.

The impact of one person is tiny, and others can come to a different conclusion and determine that the enjoyment they will get from a work outshines any impact that their purchase will have, but I think it is up to each individual to decide.

>237 DMulvee: well said!

>237 DMulvee: However that he as a 61 year old employed a 21 year old and shared a bath with her on her first day of employment has not been denied. This is an abuse of power that crosses the line for me.

If that is the case, I certainly agree it's an abuse of power. Although, that is an ethical violation and NOT a lawful violation. Secondly, the case does become more clouded since at least a couple of the accusers admit to being in a consensual relationship with him. Although if they had non-consensual sex, that would of course be rape and terrible. Gaiman argues it was all completely consensual. Thirdly, I'm not sure the age difference should have anything to do with it? If Gaiman was 25 instead of 61 that should not excuse him any less should he be found guilty. All that said, I do have respect for you and others that decide not to support him.

But is the book good? It must be to have won all those awards. Or is that now an irrelevant question?

>241 jroger1: I think the concept of the book is better than the execution. The idea of gods being carried around the world by their believers and how they battle each other is intriguing. Shadow is a rather passive character things mostly happen to, or is used in schemes he doesn't understand, and to me it's a problem when your main protagonist is the least interesting person in the book. Gaiman dodges a fairly obvious question about his own setting - what about the most believed in God of the US - until an epilogue that's not in all editions. The Pratchett / Gaiman collaboration Good Omens worked better in my opinion, but that might also be due to a more comedic take. Pratchett's books seem tied up in some rights issues that ended the collaboration with FS at least so it may not be a candidate for future editions, but it's also fairly popular again thanks to the TV show (similar to American Gods getting a revival).
I suppose my take it the book is good, but has some structural problems, and it's not his best.

I have no problem condemning the morality of Gaiman’s actions. I remember being 21, and if an employer 40 years older than me, who I perceive to be a powerful figure, had approached me in the shower, I definitely wouldn’t have been mature enough or would have been too shocked to respond appropriately. Not that there aren’t many 21 year olds who could take care of themselves and give informed consent, but this certainly isn’t the case here, as claimed by the victim herself.

A problem I have with high age gap allegations is that there is always a large portion of people who believes that its merit should be defended strictly based on legality. But had that the accuser was 16 and had the action taken place in one of the many places where it is the age of consent, including the UK where Gaiman is from, I couldn’t help but feel that such a crowd would be considerably thinned out. If you don’t think that ethics should factor in tangibly, and are judging solely on legality, then the scenario I proposed should be permissible to you

>241 jroger1: I like most of Gaiman's work. He's a reasonably good prose stylist, and highly creative in blending various mythological sources. One of the major (if not the major) player in what I would call the "new enchantment" movement in contemporary fantasy literature (which also includes, for example, works like The Night Circus and Grossman's Magicians series).

One of his major strengths, his facility with archetypes, can also be a weakness, depending on your preference for psychological realism in characters. This can lead to characters being more typed, almost like a medieval allegory, but through a Jungian lens. The protagonist of American Gods is named Shadow, after all. Can't get more on the nose than that.

I think American Gods is a successful novel, with a surprisingly satisfying conclusion, but there's at least one important side plot which isn't quite entirely integrated with the overall narrative. The wife and the leprechaun plot thread is chef's kiss though.

His strongest works for me are his slightly less ambitious works (Stardust, Coraline, The Graveyard Book, The Ocean at the end of the Lane) that are closer to modern fairy tales. Though these may read as insufficiently adult to some.

>243 A.Godhelm: >246 abysswalker:
Thanks for your thoughtful reviews. I’m not much of a sci-fi or fantasy fan, although I have enjoyed much of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne, some of Tolkien, as well as a few of the more recent authors. I have not yet read any Gaiman, however.

Although the story is paramount in my reading decisions, I also appreciate the art that often accompanies them, and much sci-fi/fantasy art is intriguing.

I’m looking forward to filling in a few gaps.

>244 Ragnaroekk: Although not technically a book, I have to say Sandman. The mythopoetic work he did there, as well as (with a few others including Alan Moore and Grant Morrison) elevating what comics could be, has to be the biggest impact he's had on culture, as well as laying the foundations for the rest of his career. The themes he explores in American Gods as well as Neverwhere and many others are derived from ideas first explored there.
>246 abysswalker: Has it right I think.
>247 jroger1: It's really not a bad place to start. My criticisms aside it's a very popular book of his. The specs of the book and the art look great and I'm sure it'll be gone in minutes if copies even go up for public sale.
A complete aside, I noticed that one of the artworks is a homage to Breugel the Elder's Fall of the Rebel Angels. Another one includes a version of one of Böcklin's Isle of the Dead. The frontispiece is probably familiar to most as Hopper's oft referenced Nighthawks. I can't place the rest but a few of them look suspiciously like other references. Maybe someone else can recall the originals. The last one might be a take on Starry Night?

I don’t think this is a massively difficult problem for Suntup like it’s being made out to be in >230 Levin40:, >231 DMulvee:, >232 Ragnaroekk:.

If I’m Paul Suntup, I either think a) wow, these are pretty credible allegations, I believe them and I don’t want to be a part of Gaiman anything and I’m canceling the edition; I’ll put out a statement and rights holders get rights to the next book instead; b) wow, these are pretty credible allegations, I don’t want to cast judgment yet but I also want to be on the right side of this so I’m going to postpone American Gods pending whatever investigation/prosecution is done; I’ll put out a statement and rights holders get rights to the next book instead and, if we release American Gods in the future, they get rights to it also. Instead, he decided to market the book in full force, which speaks volumes.

As to the financials, this is an edition announced yesterday with a release date in Fall 2025. Certainly the artist has completed his contribution and so has the designer and both should be paid and if the edition is never released, that’s an all-out loss unless Suntup wants to sell art prints alone or some other creative solution to recoup cost. It’s unlikely printing has begun but paper has probably been ordered; fortunately, Suntup publishes many books and can use the paper in another project. Binding certainly has not begun though the binder will have completed dummy bindings (and should be paid for his work) and materials may already be on order; again, the materials can be used in a future project. And of course the text has been licensed from Gaiman but we don’t know whether the contract calls for payment at time of licensing or after sales; either way, a contract with a living author (or artist) should have a morals clause that covers this. If it doesn’t, it may be an expensive learning experience for Suntup (and a reason for a long chat with his contract attorneys).

I also never said “don’t read Neil Gaiman.” There are many ways, like buying secondhand or frequenting a library, to read his work without lining his pocket, if you’re so inclined.

>249 ChampagneSVP: the correct answer is c. suntup is a businessman and is in this to put food on the table and doesn't care about anyone's personal judgment as long as the book sells out anyway. you don't know his margins and to state he should just eat a loss if your imaginary scenarios don't line up without having any idea how that might affect his livelihood is out of touch with reality. just boycott him instead of taking the high ground and jumping to conclusions on many things you really don't and won't know about
by the way i have no interest in gaiman and i'm not buying this book but i'm also not making multiple posts about it trying to make others feel bad if they don't agree with me
now if everyone is so angry that the book doesn't sell out then it's an expensive lesson that suntup paid for while understanding the risk. that's on him. let's see what happens

>241 jroger1:

It's not an irrelevant question to me.

I just recently re-listened to the all-cast audio book and also read the notes in the annotated version while I was at it. The all-cast audio book is a very interesting way of presenting the novel, among other things because the narrator of Shadow (the lead character) does a wonderful job. I liked the novel better than the first time I read it - you just see so much more when you already have an idea of what's to come and what it's about - but already found it fascinating the first time. It's not a straightforward story, though, and not everybody finds it accessible. It's meandering through the US, the main plot, and several side stories, in particular those set in the past that are about immigrants and how they brought their beliefs and gods (as well as other mythical creatures) to America. Those can go as far back as the Ice Age and are quite fascinating. The general idea is great. I also like Shadow, who is very stoic and calm. He's certainly unusual, but interesting. But it is an unusual novel and not as easy to get into as some of Gaiman's other books.

The sequel Anansi Boys, for which you needn't know American Gods, was easier to me in that regard, partly because it's very funny, but also a very 'normal' novel when it comes to how the story is told.

Suntup includes the two sequel novellas about Shadow, which give some more clues about some previously hidden depths of his character, and there was an idea about another novel following these, but nothing has come of that so far. Still, American Gods is a finished story in itself and one of the modern classics of fantastic literature as well as postmodern literature for good reason.

It's also interesting to know that Gaiman wrote the novel after emigrating to the USA when he tried to get a deeper understanding of the country and was travelling all over the place. A lot of the novel is shaped by that because real places and sights are integrated into it, though sometimes changed so you can't necessarily follow the journey on a road map. It's reminiscent of a road movie in some ways. The Coming to America chapters about immigrants and their gods are inserted into the plot, and he wrote those whenever he got stuck in the main story.

Caravaggio was a murderer. Should we hide all his paintings in the basement ?

>252 Maretzo: i know it is so silly and ridiculous. i'm glad harvey weinstein made good will hunting and shakespeare in love. too bad if that shocks you. good stuff is good stuff i don't care if it comes from the same person who did bad stuff

>253 TomsRiverNJ: Strongly disagree. I can't even watch another Klaus Kinski movie after the revelations HIS OWN DAUGHTERS made about him. I don't think Gaiman is anywhere near that level though. Still, how many of you would be comfortable having your young daughters around him?

I agree that Suntup should of gone forward with the project, because it was promised years ago, and well into production. I don't have any problems with that.

>254 Ragnaroekk: If I may, you can’t speak for everybody. Personally for me, if the allegations against Gaiman are found to be true, it would certainly mar my love for his books. And I say that as a hardcore fan: I own multiple copies of everything he wrote, and once spent 5 hours in a queue for an autograph when he visited Israel, some 18 years ago. I think it’s this closeness to the author (a parasocial closeness, of course), which makes this a much more immediate moral question than discussing Caravaggio.

Edit: also, there’s zero chance of me ever having to decide on a purchase of a Caravaggio painting, whereas I have right this moment a choice of buying or not buying the numbered American Gods – something that would have been a dream edition of a book for me in other circumstances.

>255 Undergroundman: sure and i wouldn't let my daughter sleep over at neverland ranch but i still embarrassed her by dancing to thriller in public 8)

>258 Ragnaroekk: good philosophy but you should james joyce's letters to his wife nora for a good laugh

https://allthatsinteresting.com/james-joyce-love-letters-nora-barnacle

>258 Ragnaroekk: would it really not affect your experience of reading LotR even the tiniest bit, if you knew Tolkien was a rapist?..

I’ve recently re-read the entire Harry Potter series. Here we’re talking ‘only’ about J.K.Rowling’s anti-trans views and opinions, not about possible rape. But I strongly disagree with her anti-trans opinions, and feel that through the influence she wields she has done harm, where she might have done much good. I still re-read the books (which I owned since I was a teenager), and enjoyed them, but I wouldn’t have bought a new edition of them right now.

>252 Maretzo: Caravaggio is dead and will not benefit from someone buying a reproduction of his work which seems relevant to a moral discussion. Now living artists do benefit directly, which changes the calculus. It's always disappointing to find out someone who's work you enjoy is some measure of asshole; as to whether this can or should impact your purchasing habits it can really only be decided on a personal basis. I don't think a discussion about the morality is instructive other than to cement people's existing stances here.

At the risk of adding my unneeded opinion, I think most people are devoted to the work of someone who is problematic or has done something terrible.

There are so many factors. Do we decide that it's ok because they are dead, that they were creating work in a different time, or if they are still alive it might be that we loved their work before we found out about their misdeeds and have "grandfathered" them in...my point is that I doubt a single reader here has never decided that they can live with someone's misdeeds by one calculus or another.

By the same logic, it's also probable that even those readers who are most able to separate art from the artist probably have their limits too, and would jettison a beloved author if something was too egregious.

We all have to decide how the actions of creators intersect with our love for their work, and to me it seems important to just make those calls and not attack others for the calls they make about their problematic faves.

As someone who still purchased the book, I wish Suntup would be mentioned this controversy at least once. The silence is deafening and seems a little tone deaf - especially since the majority of allegations appear quite credible even if not always 'unlawful'.

I can definitely empathize that Suntup did not anticipate this news happening (and probably would not have pursued this at the time if known) and seem to have put a lot of resources into the production. That being said, not saying anything + attempting to cull those conversations (on the facebook page, twitter, etc.) seems to have been the wrong move (in my opinion).

>264 Ragnaroekk:

Same here, I also think that most reactions to what Rowling has said have been completely over the top. It's very ironic that criticising her the way he has is very probably what got Gaiman into the situation he's now in - the exact same one as her.

>263 NotSoSlimShady:

I actually prefer Suntup not making an issue of it. What are they supposed to say? There will always be people criticising them for whatever statement they make. This way they just leave it up to buyers to decide with their wallet, which is fine with me.

In the past, people with rights on Librarything were well informed about this, so I would like to ask if anyone knows how the numbered edition of American Gods is selling? Does it look like there's a chance to get a copy for people who don't hold rights? It's a gorgeous edition and I would really prefer reading this novel in two volumes instead of one, so I'm hoping for the best in this regard.

For anyone interested in that: It currently looks like people who weren't on the wait list will have a good chance of buying the classic edition when orders are open to everyone.

>267 SF-72: 113 copies left as of right now. There will be copies available tomorrow for sure. Just be on the website at 9h00 Pacific Time and be quick filling out your info. You should be good.

I’ll let you know tomorrow morning how many are left.

>267 SF-72: That's great intel thanks.
>268 Nerevarine: And this as well. The two volume one is out of my budget but the clear favourite among all of them.

>268 Nerevarine:

Thank you very much. I so hope this will work.

>269 A.Godhelm:

I just looked and there are about 500 copies available. That's a good chance for people who weren't on the wait list. I can't be sure, but I expect it to go faster in the open sale since there was a limit of one per customer during the sale to the wait list. I really appreciated that. It's so much fairer to people and makes things harder for scalpers.

>272 Ragnaroekk:

Thank you very much for that information.

That's not a lot and the rights holders still have some hours to buy. I really hope I can get a copy.

>273 Ragnaroekk:

524 at the moment. There was a strict limit of one per customer and I imagine they might not have filled the wait list up to the full 1000 copies, though that's just a guess. Still, I would assume that some people on the wait list didn't buy it after all due to the scandal, and some scalpers were surely disappointed by the limit. I'm pretty sure that the books will sell once they're openly available, though. I appreciate the fact that there will be enough copies for everyone, not just those that were in the loop and got on the wait list in time.

Could I ask: I never bought a numbered edition from Suntup before. Do you need an email link you can follow, or do they just become available on the website somewhere, e. g. under the link below (at the bottom) or somewhere in the shop, at the given time? I really don't want to miss out because an email is delayed. I've had that happen in another shop. The email with the link arrived three minutes after the sale started and the book was gone within one to people who were further ahead in the email pipeline.

https://suntup.press/american-gods/

It’s 522 of the standard currently left, however this counter started at 1000 and there are 1250 copies in total, so it is possible that this will jump by 250 when it is opened to the public (or it means that 250 has been taken by other sellers of Suntup books)

77 copies remaining of the numbered with about 4 hours left to the presale. I’ll update in a couple of hours.

Edit : 72 remaining with 30 minutes left
Edit2 : The last number I saw was 71 remaining

>275 Ragnaroekk:
>277 Nerevarine:

Thank you!

Looks like enough copies for everyone, hopefully a happy end for all.

The remaining Numbered Editions sold out within 4 minutes

Thank you to everyone who helped with advice and information. I managed to snag a copy of the numbered edition. I couldn't be happier. And yes, it was gone in 4 minutes. Phew!

And the classic edition is also selling fast now, over 200 copies sold in 9 minutes. I'm really happy for people who weren't in the wait list.

>280 const-char-star: there were 70 something copies available when I first loaded the page at noon. I was able to order a copy without any issue, and I think anyone ready at noon would have had time to deal with any minor delays such as needing to login again or confirm a payment method and still comfortably check out with time to spare, barring a complete bureaucratic tangle or total network failure. Slightly stressful but not a terrible situation overall either for the publisher or the buyer for this title, happily.

This will be my first numbered ordered directly from Suntup, actually. I've previously only ordered a handful of artist/classic editions.

>283 abysswalker:

It's my first numbered edition from them, directly or otherwise. It will be really interesting to see the difference to their classic or artist editions.

>283 abysswalker: 70? I am shocked that so many were available despite the allegations. I wish Swan Song would have that great of a design.

Suntup clearly got things right by raising the number of available copies compared to other editions.

And the design of all editions is really well done this time around. The illustrations are just perfect, too. I hope the print quality will do justice to Losell's work here, but things are looking good in this regard since he seems to be involved in the process. I was a bit worried there because his work is intricate and often involves gold or silver elements, which can look pretty awful if it's printed without proper care or with colours replacing the metal.

If anyone's interested, his book Forgotten Gods is really beautiful and still available from his shop. I got it back when it was financed by a Kickstarter.

>283 abysswalker: Indeed, I didn’t have much trouble ordering a copy myself :). The fast checkout options certainly help.

I just took a look at the status update page and all the American Gods editions have already been printed with all but Lettered already being in the bookbinding stage, and for Classic even the enclosure is being worked on. Excellent job, though I'm surprised that considering this, the goal is still autumn 2025. It really shows how long it takes to make high-quality books.

158 copies of the Classic left (three sold as I was completing this post). Really great job on judging interest! Out of 1250 copies nearly 90% are sold out, with enough time to let anyone who is on the fence get a chance at snatching a copy. I'm willing to bet the reason there are copies left is because of the negative publicity, but as has been correctly noted, not purchasing a copy of the book at this point only hurts Suntup and not Neil Gaiman. I haven't read American Gods so I'm honestly excited at reading it when it arrives. My favorite Gaiman work is Stardust.

You never know what causes people to change their minds. Personally I was on the wait list, but I signed up at a time when I had a bit more disposable income than I do now. Gaiman's current situation will probably affect my interest in anything new he publishes, but I'm hardly throwing out what at this stage is over 30 years worth of his work.

That said, nice as all the editions looked I really couldn't currently justify spending the money on a book that I like but don't love. Plus between then and now there's been a few additions to my wish list that leapt ahead of it in the queue. My loss is someone else's gain!

If guessing at demand was a game I'd have lost a lot of money by now. 126 copies left on day 2. I was pushing the button as soon as it released (It's great that there was no rush of course, seems like everyone who wanted one could get one). I thought they did a great job with the design, the specs look fantastic. Letterpress on such a huge book is great. I think Lossel did a fine job and I enjoy the references to other works, it seems fitting for a book that's based on myths and religions. Still not sure about the other ones, but I think I spot Raft of the Medusa in one, and something John Martin inspired. I remember someone recommending his work on Easton Press' Beowulf here and the gold foil overlays echos what he did there.
>286 SF-72: Thanks for the recommendation there.
I never read the novellas so there'll be something new to me at the re-read. And like I said, I'm hoping Good Omens gets published down the line.
Edit: Just figured out it'll be a gigantic book. Imajica is just over 1000 pages. This is 842p and has a slightly larger trim size. Some people had real issues reading Imajica so that might be a consideration if you haven't committed yet.

>289 Ragnaroekk:

Good to know. Thank you very much!

>292 A.Godhelm: Yoann Lossel has written an article on the Suntup site here in which he goes into depth on his influences. It really underlines just how much effort goes into a title like this by contributors other than the author.

>249 ChampagneSVP: Hmmm. Easy to say all this when it's not your business/livelihood on the line I suppose. Printing is complete btw. And such projects are years and years in the making (see article I linked to above) - not sure it's so simple to just reassign the purchased materials to other projects. In addition, binders (the only task remaining) would also have been contracted, produced prototypes and blocked out their schedule.

>292 A.Godhelm:

I enjoyed the special editions of Good Omens illustrated by Paul Kidby, but I would really appreciate an edition of it in the quality that Suntup or Arete (one can dream) provide. It's one of my favourite novels.

You mentioned the rights issue with FS above, and to my knowledge that was because Terry Pratchett died while FS was in the process of publishing some of his books, two were already out, two more were planned. His heirs (I think his daughter is mostly in control there, but I could be wrong) didn't uphold the contract for these books or a TV two-parter that was in the planning stage, too. I really don't know why in the case of FS, it's not like these editions were bad or anything. There have been some illustrated editions that Paul Kidby was involved in and which they clearly allowed, so maybe they just preferred him to Omar Rayyan? Terry Pratchett certainly liked his work on his novels. With regard to the TV version, most of them hadn't been that great (kind of fun, but not great) and I know that Pratchett was disappointed because he'd really liked Going Postal, but they didn't plan to do Making Money with the same cast, but Unseen Academicals instead. That might have played a role there.

All that being said, I would love to get Good Omens from Suntup, but right now more so Anansi Boys, since it would form a great set with American Gods. They can be read separately, but are connected.

>294 Levin40:

Very true. And as I mentioned above, all editions have already been printed and even the binding begun on most. This would have been a huge loss, even if Suntup is on board with cancel culture at this stage (as in accusations on a podcast with a clear interest in getting Gaiman cancelled for being pro trans and against Rowlings), which we don't know.

>294 Levin40: D'oh, he lays out all the references right there too. Though I got most of it right except for the Mucha piece. Thanks.

Fourth quarter title teasers are out:

October: Are you ready to turn the clock back this Fall? I am ready. Perhaps not quite this far though. The book is available in three states: Lettered, Numbered and Classic. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies, the Numbered edition is limited to 300 copies and the Classic edition is limited to 1000 copies. The Classic edition is printed offset as a single volume. The Numbered and Lettered editions are printed letterpress as two volumes. The Lettered & Numbered editions are signed by the author, the artist and the author of the introduction. The Classic edition is signed by the author and artist.

November: The extraordinary imagination and breathtaking prose of this British author was at the peak of excellence when he wrote these three fantasy novels first published in the 1940s and 1950s. The book is available in two states: Lettered and Numbered. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies and the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies. All copies are printed letterpress and published as three volumes. All copies are signed by the artist, as well as five authors who have contributed introductions and afterwords.

December: Praised by Stephen King as “one of the greatest horror novels of the 20th century,” this book has the Ability to compel readers to turn page after page. The book is available in three states: Lettered, Numbered and Artist. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies, the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies and the Artist edition is limited to 750 copies. The Artist edition is published as a single volume and is signed by the artist. The Lettered and Numbered editions are printed as two volumes and are signed by the author and artist.

I don't have any guesses for October, but I assume November is Gormenghast and December is Carrion Comfort.

A quick google for December suggests Carrion Comfort by Dan Simmons.

Could November be Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast? I already have the limited edition by Folio Society of these books and I'm really unlikely to go for another set there.

No clue about October.

It will be interesting to see what others come up with.

edited to add: I overlooked the last line in >298 ambyrglow:. We had the same guesses then.

Could October be Ready Player One? It’s signed by the author, and Ernest Cline is still very much alive. Also it’s a book filled with nostalgia, so it might fit the bill for a book to “turn the clock back.”

>300 KacyK: Sort of fits the clues, but 2 volumes for the numbered and lettered seems a bit overkill. I would expect the book to be 600+ pages to even consider that.

>298 ambyrglow: >299 SF-72: I agree that November is most likely the Gormenghast trilogy, given the word "peak" in the clue. Though my personal inclinations initially made me hope it was the Zimiamvian trilogy from E. R. Eddison.

Great guesses on the November and December titles. I think you guys are right on the money.

As for the October title, RPO would kind of suit the clues. I really can’t see it being 2 volumes though. But that’s a good guess.

Any guesses from the Facebook community ?

>303 Nerevarine: I saw 'Outlander' as a guess - which would fit in pretty well with the clues.

>303 Nerevarine: can’t see it being 2 volumes
It's definitely too short at 374p. For reference American Gods just got the split up edition + single volume Classic edition and that's 465p+novellas=~600p+. Imajica got split up + single volume Artist, it's 824p. Swan Song recently got the same, 960p originally. I'm guessing the minimum page count for this treatment is around 500p, probably more. The turn back the clock not quite this far clue sounds like a time travel story but to an ancient past. No clue what book that might be though.

Gormenghast seems solid. No artist edition so I'm out of the game but FS has it covered (perhaps why this doesn't try to compete?).

I tried running down the novels praised by King as "among the greatest" of the 20th century and many have already been done; Haunting of Hill House, I Am Legend, The Exorcist, Swan Song, Rosemary's Baby. Ghost Story by Straub is a possibility. But here too the book is split with a single volume Artist edition and Ghost Story is just 483p, so it might not be enough. Same with The Hunger by Streiber, another candidate at 320p. Carrion Comfort seems like a good candidate at 636p and has the exact quote, I'd place my chips there.

>305 A.Godhelm: And just to add regarding Carrion Comfort, here’s a quote from Wiki :

« The novel portrays a tiny fraction of humanity that has immense psychic powers, which they refer to as "The Ability.” »

That lines up perfectly with Suntup’s clue, with the inclusion of a capital A in the word Ability. That one is a lock imo.

Carrion Comfort is December. Not just the King quote, but the story involves people with the "Ability to compel" others . . . November is Gormenghast trilogy as others noted above. I don't see October as Ready Player One, wrong length and the reference to "turn the clock back . . . " must be a key and that doesn't really fit RPO.

>304 NotSoSlimShady: I refuse to believe Paul would be doing Outlander hahah. And even less so doing it letterpress.

Total spitballing: could October be Connie Willis's Doomsday Book? It's certainly long enough to be split into two volumes, it's award-winning and well-regarded, the author is still alive, it sold well for both Subterranean and Easton press but has never had a true fine press edition, and it's about time travel that ends up going far back to an unintended time. And the fact that involves the Black Death makes it horror-adjacent enough to suit a Halloween season title.

>308 Nerevarine: Haven't read it - but "I am ready" in Outlander is "Je Suis Prest", which is the motto of the Clan Fraser of Lovat (Per Google AI Summary).

>310 NotSoSlimShady:

That sounds convincing, and Outlander is certainly long enough to justify splitting it into two volumes. It would also sell well, I would assume. The large number of Classic edition copies would also fit a big hit like this one. It will be interesting to see if this is it.

I do actually find Outlander more likely, I'd just be more personally excited by Doomsday Book!

Doomsday book is mentioned in FB.

Probably won't get anything in this batch. I would get Gormenghast, since I haven't cared for any of the recent versions elsewhere, but there's no AE so I may not get the chance.

>313 Ragnaroekk: the FS edition does look magnificent. It was also really pricey at $1150 + shipping. Still, no doubt the illustrations by Dave McKean are superb. I know some did not like the binding, although I thought it was nicely done. That said, I love letterpress, and hopefully the Suntup edition will be a bit less expensive, we'll find out :)

>306 Nerevarine: >307 rld1012: I missed that sneaky clue completely, great catch.

>318 Ragnaroekk: I would imagine it would be closer to say 8 full-color illustrations per volume so 24 in total. Plus I also imagine some nice chapter openings as you said, that would be wonderful :)

Six illustrations per book have been more common, which I regret - more illustrations are really enjoyable and I'm very happy they did that for American Gods.

In that regard you really can't top McKean's 142 illustrations for Folio Society*, and their standard edition of this is really nice. (The binding of the limited edition takes some getting used to, but the cloth covers are gorgeous.)

* I think he was supposed to deliver 18, and then got so into it that they ended up with those 142. Impressive.

Re: Gormenghast, I'm a fan of much of McKean's work, but my favorite illustrations for Gormenghast are the black and white ones done for the older Folio Society standard edition, which fit the tone of the novel better (in my opinion). There are a similar number of them, and the set can still be found relatively affordably. If you aren't familiar with this set I would recommend checking them out.

According to an earlier LT conversation:

"The three volumes consist of Titus Groan (66 drawings 422 pages), Gormenghast (73 drawings 450 pages) and Titus Alone (53 drawings 247 pages)."

https://www.librarything.com/topic/267764

>316 astropi: The non limited Folio edition is only $230 and has the same 142 colored integrated McKean illustrations, Gaiman intro. Different binding and paper.

>322 rld1012: And a very sturdy slipcase which is a rarity for FS! One of my favorite Folio SEs!

>322 rld1012: Actually it has the exact same paper (Abbey Pure).

I had both editions (LE and standard) and decided to sell the LE. The standard is that good imo.

>324 Nerevarine: I'm in this boat precisely, I prefer the standard edition for the money (and am in the process of selling my limited edition). Although the binding of the LE is special.

Out of curiosity: One reason FS gave for the unusual binding of the limited edition of Gormenghast was that it would open to present the illustrations that often go across two pages perfectly. Is that also the case for the standard edition with its regular binding? I wouldn't sell my limited edition since I really love how they did the covers (gorgeous cloth and illustrations), it would just be interesting to know.

>326 SF-72: I indeed tested that with both editions. The SE obviously doesn’t lay as flat as the LE when opened, but I didn’t see any details lost in the illustrations.

>327 Nerevarine:

Thank you! A good sewn binding should open well, sounds like this is the case with the standard edition.

Suntup is starting to print giclée illustrations in house for some titles going forward.

https://suntup.press/news/elevating-our-editions-introducing-giclee-printed-illu...

>329 abysswalker: Funny that they announce it almost at the same time as Amaranthine.

>330 David_Mauduit: competition! Good for us.

>331 abysswalker: It's a good move for both, but I wish both presses would move away from the really digital looking art and also incorporate more relief illustration their works.

>330 David_Mauduit:

They already used that printing technique for To kill a Mockingbird, Of Mice and Men, possibly others I didn't check. They must have been preparing for that for quite some time.

I find it interesting that American Gods is conspicuously absent from the Suntup homepage. Usually, new releases for which copies are still available take pride of place there. Instead, it's currently given to The Stepford Wives and American Gods isn't even listed under 'Our In-Print Publications'. I wonder if this a Suntup's nod to the much discussed allegations. Unlikely to be an oversight I think.

I don't know if this is of interest to anyone here, but the original paintings for American Gods are for sale from Yoann Lossel. He can be contacted through his website. They are naturally not cheap, but it is beautiful art, so I thought I'd mention it here. He also sold the illustrations for the Beowulf edition by Easton Press a while ago.

Treasure hunt contest is on. Quest to find "a three-word Latin phrase and there are a total of 16 letters" spread across various pages, letters in blue.

Important to note: If you think you have the answer, please do not share it or post it publicly. This will result in being disqualified from the contest..

>337 A.Godhelm: I am exceedingly disappointed that the vast majority of my exposure to Latin is legal terms. The three languages I speak currently profit me only minimally with respect to my consumption of fine press...

Pretty cool contest. Wish more small companies were this thoughtful.

I have found all the letters but this has helped very little in determining the Latin phrase!

>340 Aleks3000: I've got 9 letters and am scratching my head for where the rest could be. Are there more hidden ones? All the ones I have were fairly obvious near the start of pages.

>341 A.Godhelm: Some were a bit harder to see or further down, yeah.

Good luck to everyone submitting!

I have the 16 letters, but I can’t find a 3 words latin phrase for the life of me. I’ve even resorted to ChatGPT / Gemini and they also can’t find anything…
That’s a tough one

**I’m not ashamed to admit using AI, after trying literally for hours on my own.

>345 Nerevarine: Are you sure it's the right 16, that you didn't double up somewhere? Because you should be getting suggestions. Though even with the proper 16 there's no obvious solution. I started out listing them but realized I was backtracking and had to list them with the page I found each on as not to record some twice.
Worth noting that the deadline to enter is: Monday, October 14, 2024 at 11:59pm Pacific. Still a bit of time if you haven't.

>346 A.Godhelm: Thanks for the suggestion. I actually did list out the pages and words it came from, so I wouldn’t double up.

I just triple checked and all 16 are from different words/pages. Guess I’m out of luck.

>347 Nerevarine: without giving hints, are any of your letters from author pages which are doubles of letters from publication pages of books by said authors? Because that’s a bug which Paul says has been fixed, but I did stumble on it when I was searching.

>348 BorisG: Thanks for helping. I saw that there was a bug in the first hour or so of the contest. But I found the letters yesterday, well past that point. But I made sure and no double letters from authors note.

I’ll have a crack at it again later today and if it doesn’t work…then no big deal. Searching for the letters on the website was a fun exercice in itself, so all is good.

Another take on the new press:
https://www.patreon.com/posts/113417195

>350 What_What: Good article, thanks. Nail on head. Good point that they ostensibly have all the elements of fine press put together, but are missing the heart: the genuine passion and enthusiasm for the subject matter and for what they are doing. And if you're going to convince someone to part with hundreds or thousands of dollars for a book, you really need that element. It's very hard to fake, you either have it or you don't.

I'd have thought this press would have been far better off trying to compete with the Folio Society than with the likes of Suntup, CTP, Lyra's, Curious King etc.

I'm confused about one thing though: are Paul Suntup and Kris Webster somehow involved in this press (first couple of paragraphs)? Or was it just a coincidence that they were also talking about Sleepy Hollow?

>352 Levin40: Disclaimer - I know nothing about this for sure, this is conjecture. I don't believe Suntup has anything at all to do with it. Seems like the new press contacted Kris W. and had him help build the online community prior to launch. The title choice is either a coincidence, or they saw the hype that discussion of Suntup's upcoming Sleepy Hollow had and wanted to beat Suntup to market with an option.

>350 What_What:

Thanks for sharing this. It hits the nail on the head.

I think another fine press is nothing but good for the community! I will absolutely never write-off a publisher before they've ever had a chance to prove themselves.
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/publisher-news/articl...

They sound like they're emulating the Suntup model -- three editions of their first publication, The Legend of Sleepy Hollow.

1)Lettered -- 26 copies, $3950
2)Numbered -- 275 copies, $895
3)Collector's -- 2500 copies (wow), $265
The most accessible of the three is the collector’s edition, which had a print run of 2,500 copies, and is priced at $265. This edition, Macmillan said, is a “three-piece bradle-bound, durable case featuring four-color art; cloth spine with hot metal press printed label, and exclusive two-color art on the endpapers. Each will be housed in a rigid acrylic slipcase with laser-etched trimmings.”

Sounds promising. Also, with 2500 copies I'm not going to feel the FOMO :)
The edition looks beautiful (although to be fair this is the expensive Lettered) -- what I would like to know is whether it is illustrated?

>355 astropi: yes. Gregory Manchess is doing the illustrations (and the ones I’ve seen look pretty great)

>356 jsg1976: Fabulous. I'm excited. Although at the moment I can't seem to access their website, maybe they're still working on it :)

>355 astropi: The main website does look rather Suntup-y, so yes, they appear to be playing in the same space.

The Collector edition is an easy pass for me as it's printed offset. The Numbered is the most attractive offering of the lot in my opinion. Though not to sound like a cheapskate, but $900 would buy me both the Russell Maret books I've been considering, plus both the Shelley Hoyt ones. Still, like you, I welcome more fine press choices to the field, whether or not a given title tempts me personally.

I am curious why there are two choices on the Numbered checkout page, to wit:

- Purchase with Matching Purchase Rights
- Purchase without Matching Purchase Rights

They seem to have no impact on the price shown, so why would someone waive their rights?

>358 Shadekeep: I think the general consensus is that all tiers of the books are more expensive than they should be given what is being offered and what is available from other presses. My personal view is they’re all twice as expensive as they should be, and that’s due to Macmillan’s required profit margins. And that’s a shame, because like you, I’d be pretty tempted by the numbered if it was priced correctly. Guess I’ll just have to wait and see what Suntup does with their version.

>359 jsg1976:

I wonder if they will start hoarding their catalog, and only publish limited themselves? That's my biggest fear. I know authors, and estates are involved with the contracts, but can a publisher decide to stop granting rights to small publishers?

>360 Undergroundman: "can a publisher decide to stop granting rights to small publishers?"

Of course, any rights holder can withhold rights as long as the work remains in copyright.

>360 Undergroundman: This would fit the depressing pattern we see elsewhere, like how streaming media was fractured as everyone wanted their slice of the pie with their IP stable. As the book market shrinks doing niche fine print editions is a good way to capture some whales with the back catalogue, you don't want other publishers to compete with you, so you limit all your IP (and maybe jack up the prices as well as we see here).
Normally more competition is better, but this might be an exception.

OMG! Thanks for depressing me. 😥

It's in everyone's best interest for Fablelistik to fail. In fact, if you can see how the future would play out with its success, then boycotting becomes your civic duty.

Huh! I can't believe a major trade publisher has launched a fine press imprint.

Seems to me like this could be a good or a bad thing, depending. If they are here to grow the community, great. If their big budget and heft means new craftspeople can open shop and new readers find their way to craft bookmaking, great.

But if they're just here to extract $ from a community that already exists, then it's FAR better to support private presses and proprietor-owned fine presses.

But I came here to mention that I received a copy of Suntup's The Yellow Wall-Paper and highly recommend it!!!

A few observations I've had on this new press:
- I'm not sure I agree with >355 astropi: that more new entrants are a good thing. Their current strategy is to use the printer and binder used by many other small fine presses. If they ramp up production - and it seems they're planning to - and pay more than other presses can afford, then this could directly impact the ability of those other presses to get their products out.
- Not sure why an offshoot of a major publisher has to rely on preorders. They'd have been better off just funding their first title internally and selling it finished at launch. They've even launched with barely any artwork ready (I've only seen one complete piece and a sketch) and without resolving their shipping issues. It just seems a bit premature and amateurish. Why are they seeking to adopt exactly the same business model as other, far smaller, presses?
- As I had a few minutes to spare and I like to geek out with such things, I totted up the total revenue they hope to receive from Sleepy Hollow (so (3950*26)+(895*275)+(265*2500)). Comes to almost bang on $1M. Could this be the magic number the big bosses in the company instructed them to bring in per title? If so, it could explain the high prices and the (frankly ridiculous) Collector's edition limitation.
- In my opinion, the only way this can succeed in terms of their pricing strategy and foreseen production ramp-up, is if they somehow manage to open up a large market of new customers willing to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a book. At the moment there aren't that many of us. A large proportion of us hang out on FB groups and forums such as this one, and many of us are already stretched by the number of titles being released by existing presses. And they already seem to have alienated most of us through their overall approach, overpricing or just refusing to ship to us. Anyway, I see no signs of them being able to attract new customers en masse with their current approach. It remains to be seen if they have further marketing tricks up their sleeve.

In summary, I can't see the awkward combination of small press business logic with large press profits and staffing working out. I'd be interested to know if anyone here has actually purchased a copy.

>366 grifgon: It is a fine edition, one of Suntup's best!

>362 A.Godhelm: I think this is highly unlikely.

More money to be made in the mass market at a lower price point.

>365 grifgon: “But if they're just here to extract $ from a community that already exists, then it's FAR better to support private presses and proprietor-owned fine presses.”

I don’t make purchasing decisions — of cars, clothing, books, etc. — based on anything except quality and price. If a company becomes abusive, the market will take care of it.

>371 jroger1: Wow, nice way to absolve yourself of any moral responsibility! So if you found out that your high quality, reasonably priced shirt was made by exploited 10 year olds in Bangladesh you'd be fine with that? You are the market.

>366 grifgon: I have the numbered, definitively cute !

>372 Levin40: “So if you found out that your high quality, reasonably priced shirt was made by exploited 10 year olds in Bangladesh you'd be fine with that?”

Actually, it may have been. Have you checked the labels on your clothing? I don’t want people trying to impose their values or politics on me, and I don’t want to be guilty of the same offense, especially when dealing with a different culture.

But we’re talking about books here. I don’t know why I should go out of my way to patronize a small, struggling publisher in preference to a larger, successful one. If the struggling publisher produces quality books at a competitive price, it, too, can become successful. Suntup is a recent case in point.

>358 Shadekeep: The Collector edition is an easy pass for me as it's printed offset.
Wow, I assumed it was printed letterpress -- did not even notice that. How unfortunate. I can't justify that price either.

>367 Levin40: I do think having a major publisher produce fine press is a good thing. That said, at those prices I do not think they are going to succeed. So my guess is some admins will just say "see, I told you people just want their cheap hardcovers or paperbacks" completely ignoring that most people are not going to spend $895 on a short story that is in the public domain. Granted, it's beautifully illustrated, but a completely asinine price.

I totted up the total revenue they hope to receive from Sleepy Hollow...Comes to almost bang on $1M. Could this be the magic number the big bosses in the company instructed them to bring in per title? If so, it could explain the high prices and the (frankly ridiculous) Collector's edition limitation.
I do agree on the ridiculous price for the collector's edition. That said, if you take a look at Suntup's American Gods -- granted a popular work for sure, but regardless the total revenue once all copies are sold is $985,000 -- ostensibly a million. So I don't feel that $1M is so outrageous.

>375 astropi: I do think having a major publisher produce fine press is a good thing.
Perhaps, but my point was that if they try to do that by monopolizing the resources and contributors of other, far smaller presses, then that's in no way a good thing. But I agree that it's probably not going to succeed long term with the current pricing strategy.

So I don't feel that $1M is so outrageous.
My point wasn't that it's 'outrageous' per se, but that the need to meet this target might account for their strange pricing and limitation decisions. But since you're comparing with American Gods, let's run with that for a second (and also bring this thread back on topic :-)). Sleepy Hollow is, as you say, 'a short story that is in the public domain'. American Gods is one of Suntup's most elaborate and lengthy productions yet; it is in copyright, author signed, letterpress across all states, lengthy and comes in four states, including the hugely pricey 'Roman edition'. The total projected revenue is, as you state, just under $1M, but this is an extreme outlier, by some margin the highest projected revenue of any Suntup title ever produced (and far more than any other small press title I can think of). And yet, the projected revenue still comes in below what they're aiming for with Sleepy Hollow!

>376 Levin40:

The illustrator, Yoann Lossel, alone spent years on research and getting the (quite complex) illustrations just right. I don't know how much more work went into the other aspects of American Gods. It's an extremely impressive set of editions. If you read Lossel's article, you also see that Suntup raised the originally planned number of illustrations from six to ten, probably because his work was so good and he was so dedicated to the project. Hat off to Suntup, Lossel and everyone else involved. This really comes across as a labour of love.

>376 Levin40: Great points. Whether someone likes the content, design, and craft of Suntup Editions or not, there can be no doubt that Paul puts his heart and soul into his work. He's a brilliant marketer and has built an impressive business that he's clearly passionate about. As you state, there's no comparison between the Suntup American Gods and the Fab Sleepy Hollow. I can't imagine paying $300+ after tax and shipping for an offset-printed short story.

Edit: A public domain offset-printed short story...for $300+

Outlander is indeed this month's title.

https://suntup.press/outlander/

Numbered and Lettered Editions are printed letterpress.

Bit shocked by the choice, but at least it's not another Ania Ahlborn book.

>381 LiamLikezLimez: Okay, I'll bend over.

I like it. I enjoyed the book when I read it some years ago (long before the TV series) and they were nicely creative with it. The illustrations are beautiful.

>383 SF-72: Yeah. While I have no interest in the book... it has a HUGE following. Definitely deserves the limited treatment by many publishers actually.

>383 SF-72: I've heard good things about it. The Suntup take gives off a kind of "thoughtful bodice-ripper" vibe, which is neither a slam nor a bad thing.

and $100 less than the Fab Sleepy Hollow at approximately 30x the number of words for the Classic edition. Same for the Numbered. Suntup's Lettered is $1000 less than Sleep Hollow.

>385 Shadekeep:

Outlander is an interesting mix between a historic novel, a romance (but with more realism than you usually get, especially in historic contexts), and a fantastic element / time travel, though the latter only sets things up. The author takes research very seriously and definitely knows what she's writing about when it comes to the historic periods and places she's setting her books in. I look forward to re-reading it when I get the Suntup edition.

>376 Levin40: I certainly agree with most of your points --
if they try to do that by monopolizing the resources and contributors of other, far smaller presses, then that's in no way a good thing
I honestly can't see them monopolizing the resources of fine press across the country. If for whatever reason this became super popular, which I would be happy with, then by supply and demand there would be more resources springing up to take in the revenue. But again, I can't see that happening as much as I would like it too. Which brings up the next point --

I will say that a "typical" Suntup production will have net revenues of around 1/2 a million. For a larger publisher to aim for about a million in revenue I think is perfectly legit. That said, I'm still unsure who exactly is making what money from this new publisher -- https://fablelistikeditions.com/
But, I'm both disappointed and angry at the price. Disappointed because it's far too much in my opinion, and angry because I feel this is already going to spell doom for the publisher before they even got off the ground.

>388 astropi: "If for whatever reason this became super popular, which I would be happy with, then by supply and demand there would be more resources springing up to take in the revenue."

This is indeed the orthodox economics doctrine, which is largely true in my opinion, but assumes a deep labor market in relevant skills and a deep market in other relevant resources.

Unfortunately this is simply not true for craftsmen necessary for fine press productions. It takes a generation to "spin up" more fine binders to the standard of Ludlow, for example. Suntup is the only publisher that is really investing in substantial new capacity, to my knowledge. A few other publishers (No Reply and Amaranthine, off hand) have invested in new infrastructure to a smaller degree, but it's not clear to me whether that translates at all into much greater demand for training necessary for new skilled labor. There are a few others in this space, such as Thornwillow, but from my vantage it looks like they are holding steady with capacity (or even declining slightly, based on change in release timetables) post Covid.

There's a reason why so many publishers use the same set of providers (Nomad Letterpress, Hand & Eye, Ludlow, etc.).

I would love for my estimate to be proved wrong, but I fear the quantity of capable skilled labor will remain small and inelastic for the foreseeable future. The financials are too small and the market too niche for the dynamics to look anything like the free market ideal.

Remember this pipeline needs to reach down as deep as current high school and university students, as those are the skilled labor pool of tomorrow. How many of them are considering fine bookbinding as a career, do you think?

>389 abysswalker: Good points for sure.
Remember this pipeline needs to reach down as deep as current high school and university students, as those are the skilled labor pool of tomorrow. How many of them are considering fine bookbinding as a career, do you think?
My alma mater had a fine press workshop that any student could use and learn from, all for free -- it was amazing and I absolutely took advantage! That was a while ago, but not that long ago. Let me say, there was a lot of demand and utilization of the workshop, which was great! I agree, it takes years to learn the trade and become masterful, but if the demand is there, and there are jobs, more people would absolutely take up the mantle. For any business to expand, there first has to be demand. Unfortunately, again I have to say at the prices they are asking ($895 for Sleepy Hollow) I feel this new publisher is just dead in the water. Happily we have other thriving letterpress publishers such as Suntup, but I feel that if a large publisher invests in letterpress and it fails, that sends an unfortunate message to other potential investors, artists, etc.

>389 abysswalker: This analysis is pretty spot-on. Consider also the small and diminishing supply of machinery, parts, materials, etc.

Let's say there is an increase in the number of working craftspeople to meet the market demand. Will, suddenly, we see new presses being fabricated, new roller cores, etc?

>391 grifgon: Let's say there is an increase in the number of working craftspeople to meet the market demand. Will, suddenly, we see new presses being fabricated, new roller cores, etc?

Depends on the level of demand. First, it's not as if all these old and wonderful letterpress machines have not had numerous parts replaced -- I promise you they have. Parts often have to be specially ordered and manufactured, but that's the nature of these machines. Secondly, there are places that restore and repair large letterpress machnes, for example --
https://www.beyondletterpress.com/
So it's not that a new press has to purchase a brand new machine, there are plenty of machines out there.

>392 astropi: If you’re right, we’re on the verge of seeing 3-5 new large-volume letterpress printers and binders catapult themselves onto the scene, to soak up all that latent demand in the months and months-long backlog we hear all the presses talking about.

>392 astropi: Yes, the letterpress community refurbishes and replaces parts. For example, when I changed my form rollers this week, I sent the old cores off to Fitz at NA Graphic so that he could restore them and send them to another Vandercook Universal I in need of roller cores. But that's because no new cores are being manufactured. (And it would be obscenely expensive to have a machinist fabricate new cores to the original specifications.) As such, we're working off a limited and atrophying supply.

I would love nothing more than for a new proofing press manufacturer to exist, just as there are current etching press manufacturers. I think the demand for letterpress would have to be much, much larger than it is now for that to happen, but here's hoping!

>393 What_What: I have a buddy here in Portland who wants to start a commercial Heidelberg cylinder shop to do letterpress book printing. He's even got the Heidelberg. Hopefully he manages to do it; I keep telling him there are fine presses looking for printers to hire. But there are a lot of barriers to getting set up.

On the other hand, Portland's only commercial hand-bindery closed last year and all of its equipment was scrapped because nobody wanted it enough to pay for the freight.

>395 grifgon: Yeah. I had letterpress fantasies a decade ago. (tilts back head and downs a shot.) Then I took letterpress and bookbinding classes and discovered that reading and perusing books was a lot more fun than crafting them by hand when you don't have the aptitude for the work or the psychological makeup to enjoy the process.

By the way, your work keeps getting better and more interesting, Griffin!

>396 SDB2012: Thanks, mighty kind!! The only goal is to improve.

>395 grifgon: Intuitively, if it were easy, more people would open up new presses and binders.

But what we’ve seen over the past year is multiple persons opening up new publishing businesses, while using the same suppliers of printing and binding services everyone else uses.

It should be plain by this point that it’s not easy to start those kinds of companies, and a new publishing enterprise backed by Macmillan can buy their way into the printing and binding queues at the expense of all the smaller businesses.

>398 What_What: I think your analysis is spot-on here.

This Macmillan thing will be really interesting to watch.

I actually think that, if they succeed, or if other major publishers jump in, it could be great for the private presses. They won't compete with us for craft capacity, but they might bring a ton of new people to the table with their advertising budgets. Bigger enterprises often serve as a "gateway drug" to private presswork. I think most private press collectors say something along the lines of, "I started off collecting Folio Society, or Easton Press, and then discovered..."

But I am a bit worried for the independent fine presses, and their collectors, who will more directly compete with Macmillan & Co. All of these guys rock and are doing incredible work at tight margins. If they have to start competing with Big Business, I hope that collectors will make note of the fundamental difference between supporting A Multigazillion Corporation and Proprietor-Publishers putting their back into it.

>399 grifgon: Thank you, and I agree with your extension as well.

>396 SDB2012:


You know, I did just a bit of letterpress back in the day. I even knew a student that purchased a small, but quality letterpress machine because he got so into it! Admittedly when you do something new, and it's not for work, it seems like the best of times. I'm sure if this is something I was doing for a living I might be more jaded. But as it stands, I thought it was just so much fun. BUT, I also had an expert on-hand to help me, so there's that :)

>401 astropi: Admittedly when you do something new, and it's not for work, it seems like the best of times

That's why, I enjoy doing some photography in my spare time:)

Outlander Numbered is up now and the lottery is open for the remaining Lettered. Personally I find the Numbered the most attractive design this time around.

Nice design for Outlander, but I have zero interest in the title. Shocked about the number of numbereds available considering the insane following that series has.

>404 Undergroundman: I'm not shocked at all. The demographics of the "insane following" and existing Suntup number holders does not match.

>405 abysswalker: Right holders have been buying books they didn't want just to stay in the train for years. Pretty common for them to flip those titles on facebook. Also, still like 100 available for a print run of 300. You would think non-Suntup regulars that are fans of the series would have rapidly snatched up the remaining copies in just minutes.

>406 Undergroundman: how do the rights work? You buy a numbered and you get rights for the next release only?

>407 bruinuclafan: Yeah. You keep that number until you stop buying every month. Unless they release a book with a lower print number that you don't have. You still are eligible for the next release with your higher number though. Sometimes you get lower numbers like 63. You never know who decides to pass on their number.

It’s possible people stayed on the train for American Gods and have stepped off now that is locked in. If so this would have happened no matter the title that followed AG

>408 Undergroundman: got it, thanks. Any idea what the next title is? That would seem important!

>410 bruinuclafan: Unconfirmed but Gormenghast is the consensus

>410 bruinuclafan: The leading guess at the moment is Mervyn Peake's Gormenghast trilogy. I'll be on-board for it if I like the art.

EDIT: And simul-posting again!

I've got the impression that the Outlander crowd mostly haven't heard of this release. For some reason I can't fathom, Gabaldon herself doesn't mention it on her social media or her website, neither does Heughan, who was involved in this edition. I'm sure there are enough people in that fandom to snap up the remaining copies, if only they knew this editions exists. A small number who discussed it on Reddit are quite enthusiastic about it since they find it far superior to the regular editions. Which it is, of course, but it's pretty obvious that editions like Suntup's are quite new to them. The only one other than Suntup Press itself that tries to direct attention to it is the artist, who did a beautiful job. I wouldn't mind this so much if the rest of the series wasn't hanging in the balance. I would love to have a complete set of this quality level, but that won't happen if it sells badly. I really would have thought that the larger-than-usual number printed was more than justified, but as I said, fans would actually have to know about it to buy it, and that's clearly not the case. And the usual Suntup crowd is more likely to buy horror than a historic romance with fantasy elements.

>413 SF-72: Agree. It seems more like a Subpress title, but maybe Bill isn't a fan? It really is a nice release. Very tempting to even get a classic.

>412 Shadekeep: hmm never heard of that series. You like it?

>416 Ragnaroekk: Diana is probably an extremely busy woman, and her agent handled most of the Suntup deal. Do Gaiman, and King promote their limiteds? She is close to them as a popular fiction writer.

>417 Undergroundman:

I can't speak for King, but Gaiman certainly promoted such releases before he withdrew from social media due to the recent shitstorm. He was very enthusiastic in his support for smaller presses and their special editions of his work, as well as literature he himself loved and enjoyed a beautiful edition of. And how much work would a quick mention on Gabaldon's website or social media be? Just say that there's an illustrated edition and link to it. This should be selling like hotcakes, if only the right people knew about it. It's really a mystery to me. There is no other such edition of her work. Her Easton Press editions are signed, but not illustrated and the usual generic release that they do when it comes to covers. It's a real shame because this edition would be a real joy to a lot of her readers, but they don't know about it, so there likely won't be more in the series. When the (admittedly not as famous, but still successful enough) author couple Ilona Andrews had some nice editions of some of their novels released earlier this year, they talked about it on their blog and in their newsletter and their fans flocked to the publishers in question quite enthusiastically. Quite a few even became members of a book club so they could get their hands on one of those special releases, and they promptly printed more copies than they usually do. This kind of thing can work really well, but it does take some engagement with the target audience from the author, not just a publisher the readers have probably never heard of. It's not like Suntup books are shown on amazon and the like. A lot of fans will probably notice this release when scalpers start selling copies on Ebay, not before.

>415 bruinuclafan: I do, it's watershed gothic fiction. Quite influential and deliciously sardonic.

75 copies of the numbered and 300 of the classic still available. Count me among those that are surprised this has not sold out. I know the TV series is big, and the books have sold some 50+ million copies. The books are clearly aimed at women, with some people saying "Outlander" Is The Feminist Answer To "Game Of Thrones" --
https://www.buzzfeed.com/annehelenpetersen/watch-outlander
I haven't read Outlander so I can't ascertain or deny that statement, but I know it's very popular so I'm a bit shocked by how slowly it has been selling.

>421 astropi: I did a quick Google search and apparently Outlander was published a few years before A Game of Thrones. The show probably came after GoT though.

>421 astropi: This gets me to wondering about the gender breakdown in fine press purchases. It's established women make up the bulk of book buyers now, but perhaps the breakdown is different for fine press? Could also be the title choices so far cultivating a majority male audience for Suntup in particular?

I would normally have purchased it, but I have rhe Easton set (cue sneers!). This production looks beautiful though. I agree that Suntup customers are likely primarily male and also maybe so people hesitate to buy a book that’s part of a long set in case Suntup doesn’t end up publishing them all?

I ordered Outlander (Classic)- and am a woman. If they do the full series I would only get the first 4 as I find the rest not as interesting. I would be ok with just the first as it ends fine as well, so am not worried about further editions either way. Couldn't pass it by though as this is my most loaned out and then had to be replaced because I never got it back book. In the end it is a book I have enjoyed and reread and given the quality of Suntup it was a guaranteed buy for me.

>425 coffeewithastraw: Thanks for this info, I had hoped the first novel was self-contained. It takes a pretty hubristic author to do otherwise. There are times where I don't bother with a series and just enjoy the first book, particularly when the continuation feels artificial.

>427 Shadekeep: Exactly my view. However, the author does leave things open in a way - don't want to give spoilers- but I am ok with ambiguity, so milage may vary. I'd say that it's mixed perhaps with this arc of the story being ended. I feel most books end at a point where the story could continue. I'd double check now but I have loaned it out again a year or so ago and haven't gotten it back again. I am not sure I would describe it as self-contained though. For me the comparison would be Dune. Book 1 is enough for a lot of people, books 2 and 3 are the next end points, and then some others want the whole series. I am a Dune series end Book 2 person (I have read them all but I feel like it's diminishing returns after book 2, so only got the fine copies for the first 2.) Same thing here. You can stop and mostly be satisfied (me anyway) with book 1, but if you liked it and want to know what happens next then continue. For me the natural end point is Book 4. After that- though I have read them all- it degrades. I reserve the right to change my mind after the final book (book 10 I hope). But I in no way need fine copies of all of them. Had to clarify since I am sure others may feel differently.

>428 coffeewithastraw: I agree with this. Personally, I have only reread Dune itself and it is the only of the series that I own in any fine(r) edition. I also only own Game of Thrones in a finer edition, not being much of a fan of the series as it progresses. I am please that the sales are slower on this edition, I am trying to quickly read Outlander because I find the Suntup numbered edition spectacular.

I would like Outlander the series to be published completely by Suntup (not that I have hopes with them selling like this) and I couldn't wait to continue after reading volume 1. It does give a kind of ending, but not one I would have been happy with if there had been no sequels. That being said, there is a strong change in place over the series, from Scotland to the continent (I vaguely remember France, it's been a while) to colonial America. It's all very well researched and I learned a lot about what led up to the War of Independence from the books. The characters were as enjoyable as ever. Personally I preferred the Scottish setting, though, but that's just my taste because I find that place in this time more interesting. The series did remain interesting and enjoyable to me despite that.

>431 Ragnaroekk:

These days I appreciate it when stories are complete in just one book, but if it moves beyond that I actually tend to prefer longer series to trilogies. It's enjoyable to me to stick with characters and a world I like for a longer time and to return there on a regular basis if it's an author who keeps on writing books in that world. Ilona Andrews is a good example, so is Patricia Briggs. It helps when the author doesn't take too long between books.

And yes, I'd love to get a nice edition of The Last Kingdom / The Uthred Saga by Cornwall, too. I think Folio Society would have done a lot better with that than with Sharpe, especially since they didn't invest in decent editions there (as in very few black-and-wite only illustrations) and didn't start in publication order either. Unfortunately, I doubt that they will tackle another series by the same author after that flop, which is a real shame.

>428 coffeewithastraw: Very good, thanks again! And funnily enough, I almost posted Dune as my example as well of a series I've just read the first of. That Hideous Strength by C.S. Lewis is the only novel of that series I enjoy, too, though that's more because he goes theologically ham-handed afterwards.

I find that book series often follow the same pattern as TV series - if the first is brilliant the second will be good (though spend a fair amount of time on "premise extension") and the third will likely be very good. After that more often then not it goes downhill, as things have to get more improbable and outlandish (pun semi-intended) to keep it going.

Since the books are not selling well, I doubt that Paul will continue the series!

Gabaldon finally mentioned the edition on her Twitter, but linked only to the numbered edition. The fans who commented clearly like what they see, but some are quite shocked by the price. It would have been much smarter to link to the general Outlander page, or both the numbered and classic editions. These aren't cheap books and people who aren't collectors have probably never seen anything as expensive as the higher tiers on Suntup.

>435 SF-72: I heard the same about Hyperion from Curious King. A lot of those readers are completely clueless when it comes to quality limiteds. They are used to the crappy Signed Target trade editions.

>434 Maretzo:

That's unfortunately possible. I would hope for a smaller print run of later titles in the series since there clearly is an audience for it, just not as large as expected. E. g. something like 750 classic editions instead of 1000 and so on. Though let's wait and see, maybe Gabaldon's fans will now notice the release, even if she made a mistake by linking only to the more expensive numbered edition on her Twitter. Suntup is used to fast sell-outs, but with this kind of inexperienced fanbase it just might take a bit longer.

>433 Shadekeep: Agree- the constant need to up the stakes and outdo what has been previously done in a series (book or TV) tends to lead to a jump the shark situation. Occasionally some do pull it off. Obviously I have continued to read the series but I only *reread* the first few. I think my preference is for stand alone stories in the same world.

>435 SF-72: I have seen these prices regularly and *still* find them shocking tbh, but unfortunately can't resist a favorite book with amazing production values. Though happily I am usually able to confine myself to the lower tiers. I am agnostic about whether or not this entire series gets the fine treatment - but I am very pleased the first volume has, no question and am happy for those who want to own the entirety if it is continued.

Fully agree on the wonderful level of research and depth of detail that makes these books immersive. Also especially the ones in Scotland. I did find the last few to be a little much on some of the plot points or maybe its just that after this many books what was ok at the start stretches my ability to suspend disbelief when the collective level of exceptional circumstances is this high for two people. I probably would not notice it as much if the setting/environment were less realistic and well researched or in a more fantastical setting- which is ironic, I know. As individual books they are good reads because of all that detail and research and because the characters are still enjoyable. I have definitely learned a bit about the flavor of daily life of centuries ago, which is its own reward.

I am really looking forward to this first one -especially that now I will have an excuse to not lend it out! It will practically pay for itself!

>436 Undergroundman:

Exactly. I'm sure what catches the attention of inexperienced people like that are the illustrations, not so much the superior quality of the paper and binding, for example. I remember being shocked by the (then still comparatively low) prices of editions by Folio Society until I saw them in person and could compare them to regular trade editions. Later on learning more about quality books and fine press especially on here and on the websites of some publishers made a big difference. I'm sure that's difficult to grasp and simply a shock when it comes to prices if your first encounter with quality editions are books by Curious King or Suntup, more so the higher tiers. It's a very large first step to take when you've got no personal experience beyond trade editions.

>438 coffeewithastraw:

Same here when it comes to the prices and usually staying in the lower tiers. I just can't afford the higher tiers on a regular basis and am usually quite happy lower down. They are beautiful editions, too, after all, and I really appreciate it that Suntup usually offers those to less wealthy collectors. American Gods and Outlander will actually be my first numbered editions by Suntup, but I just couldn't resist in these cases. The only other one that would have pulled me in enough was Red Dragon numbered, but back then I was too inexperienced to know that I had to buy it right away instead of thinking about it due to the high price, or it would be sold out.

I haven't read the last two books in the Outlander series yet because I wanted to do a complete re-read first. The Suntup edition will provide a wonderful opportunity for that. And the way I understand it, Gabaldon wants to finish the series with one or maybe two more books, depending on how the story goes, so this should come to a conclusion during the next few years.

I know what you mean about suspension of disbelief, which is easier in less realistic settings than these.

>436 Undergroundman:

What was a really interesting experience for me was comparing the weight of editions of the same novel published with high-quality archival paper and more solid cardboard (for the binding) by Anderida and an edition with nicer covers and edges, but the same paper as the trade hardcover by The Broken Binding. (Both are small independent publishers and book shops in the UK.) The latter was so much lighter due to the lower quality of the materials used. It was quite an eye-opener when it comes to what a difference paper can make in that regard, let alone longevity.

>441 SF-72: Yeah, I know a few people who collect Fairyloot, so I've seen the "quality". Of course none of those people own at least one letterpress book. Most book readers are unaware of what is even a perfect binding. Not going to hold that against them for not knowing. We are definitely in a very small community.

>442 Undergroundman:

So we are.

I like the fact that these smaller book clubs and publishers offer a large range of books in a nicer way than the regular publishers tend to do, and I've got the impression that these are good ways of attracting a younger audience that might then move to higher quality editions at some point. Those nice editions have definitely played a role in the greater popularity of printed books / hardcover editions. Realistically speaking, not everyone can afford fine press and for those that do, it's a bit of a step to get there because the prices can be shocking at first, as described above. But an appreciation of nice books can lead from one level to the other. That's a good thing in my book.

On Twitter, Gabaldon only linked her tweet to the numbered edition, so I mentioned the classic edition on there, too. There was promptly a relieved reaction because numbered was just not financially doable, but classic is. I'm sure there are more people like that. This is really not going well with regard to getting the information out to the Outlander fandom. Hopefully some word of mouth, re-tweeting etc. will do the trick now. The audience for this edition is definitely out there, it just needs to be reached.

On a side note I just looked up Diana Gabaldon for the first time, never seen a photo of her before. According to wikipedia she's 72. 72!! What the heck! She looks in her 40s max. That's incredibly impressive. Probably she knows something the rest of us don't, maybe involving time travel :-)

>444 SF-72: You've done more to sell it than the author that's hilarious.

>446 A.Godhelm:

That comment just made me laugh. I certainly invested more time and effort than she did, but I wouldn't go quite that far. My own tweets wouldn't have been noticed if they weren't replies to Gabaldon's and her followers on Twitter / X. But my impression is that she probably did a very quick post / tweet when asked to because the sale didn't go well, and then she just picked the top tweet by Suntup (numbered) instead of the one that made more sense (classic), or even better used a link to all editions. I'm really astonished at how little she tries to support this edition. It's the first and only of her work on this level, with illustrations and all. There's Easton Press (signed and leather-bound, but not illustrated) and the first four volumes had anniversary editions that have nicer covers than the regular ones, but nothing more. It's all a bit peculiar.

Surprised there are still copies of the Classic and Numbered Outlander available, but apparently only the Lettered has sold out! Anyone recall what the next book is, or if not announced, what are the clues/guesses?

>448 astropi: November is probably Gormenghast; December is probably Carrion Comfort.

Received the Winterset Hollow numbered today -- a beautiful edition.

>449 JacobHolt: Thanks. I wonder if Gormenghast will be in the same vein as Divine Comedy? The FS edition was magnificent, but after shipping it was over $1300. Here's hoping the Suntup edition is more affordable :)

Looking forward to Carrion Comfort. Simmons is a very talented writer, and his Hyperion Cantos is a masterpiece.

>451 astropi: As to affordability there will be no collector state: The book is available in two states: Lettered and Numbered.
Divine Comedy started at a numbered edition for $895 for reference, and that was two volumes.
I'd be very surprised if this is not north of 1000 and likely around the same 1300 figure as the FS set. Suntup will do letterpress for all, the FS LE was offset. It's going to be hard to compete with the sea of illustrations the FS got though.

>452 A.Godhelm: I think you're likely correct. That said, a $900 edition is significantly more affordable than a $1300 edition, obviously we'll have to wait and see. If you look at Blackwater, it was originally a 6-volume work, and Suntup published it as one massive tome, and that certainly saves a lot of money for the publisher and buyer.

Gormenghast looks brilliant and the artwork is great. Very fair price for this much letterpress, too. Will see how many copies remain in the scrum for the hoi polloi.

I'd be very surprised if there are any copies left for the store but i'll be on the there spamming the F5 button on the dot at 9AM PT Sunday 24th.

Interesting to see Suntup use the same style enclosure for the lettered that Folio designed for the LE Divine Comedy.

It looks great, better than I was expecting. I'd love a copy but I've spend a lot on books the last month and I fear this one will be a mad rush.

As predicted I am very surprised. Numbered is south of 1000 at three volumes letterpress. Both states look gorgeous and they went in a completely different direction with the illustrations.
I missed the essay on the illustration of American Gods and there's another easy to miss one here on Illustrating the World of Gormenghast. Although the artist is using gold here as well there won't be gold stamping on the reproductions that are scanned from the originals (according to the edition information).

Oh, that's a fascinating choice of illustration style. I'm a fan. If you're not going to just reprint Peake's original illustrations, it makes sense to go in as different a stylistic direction as possible.

I'm torn on whether to go for the numbered or just grab the folio set for way less money because it seems to have many more interesting illustrations. Anyone else?

>460 bruinuclafan: I think the FS standard edition is "worth the price" while the LE is not worth it. Here is the standard if anyone wants to check it out --
https://www.foliosociety.com/usa/gormenghast.html
Again, at $230 I think it's a good value. That said, the Suntup edition is letterpress, and letterpress is special. That said, if letterpress is not special to you, definitely grab the FS edition instead. But, I think most of us on here know that try as they might, you just can't reproduce the quality and beauty of letterpress printing with offset. Will be interesting to see if this sells super quickly or not! Honestly, I think many people's credit cards are already getting too plump this Holiday season :)

>461 astropi: While I’ve been tempted by the Folio edition, I’d say letterpress is the least of their differences. Just drastically different designs, approaches to illustration, etc.

>461 astropi: I think the FS LE is one of their strongest LEs!

>463 DMulvee: Why? If you compare the LE and standard, it's clear the LE has a different (not necessarily more attractive) binding, and a different (again, not necessarily more pleasant) slipcase. It is signed by Neil Gaiman and Dave McKean, which is great. If that itself is worth to you about $1000 more, then kudos. Otherwise, I think the standard is easily the way to go -- you get the exact same illustrations, all 142 of them for about 1/5 the price.

>461 astropi: Thanks for the reply. I think I'm inclined to get the FS. I like the illustrations a lot. I may even see if one comes up used in the Facebook group. I'm sort of on the Curious King train at the moment so trying to be very selective with everything else.

>464 astropi:

The thing that really makes the LE of Ghormengast by FS more attractive than the standard edition to me is the gorgeous cloth binding - photos don't do it justice. It has a beautiful shimmer which reminds me of silk. The images on it are also more beautiful to me than those of the standard edition. That being said, I wish they'd done a different binding and if both editions had been sold at the same time, I would probably have gone for standard for the cheaper price and the regular spine.

>464 astropi: In order to appreciate and fully see the illustrations the books needs to open flat. The binding on the SE doesn’t allow for this, you need the binding on the LE if the illustrations are to be fully seen

>467 DMulvee: I had both the LE and the SE at one time, and you don’t miss the illustrations in the SE, or at least I didn’t notice anything. I made the comparison side by side on several illustrations to determine which edition to keep.

I ended up keeping the SE.

While I don't own the SE I'd agree with >468 Nerevarine:, from what i see leafing through my LE there really aren't that many illustrations spread across two pages, the vast majority aren't really affected by the binding from a practical stand point, the only reason imo you'd want the LE over the standard is simply whether you want a unique binding in your collection or whether you feel it matches the overall tone/design of the set which for me were justifications enough to keep it rather than going for the standard.

I just checked page 20 and page 34 both have illustrations going over two pages (I stopped looking at this point). My view of the SE is taken from the FS video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UOSoku-Lbr4&pp=ygUZRm9saW8gc29jb2V0eSBnb3JtZW5...

In hands there’s not a noticeable difference, if at all.

I recently received the SE from Folio Society and it is an awesome piece for the price. I really enjoy the Suntup version but the price to value for the Folio SE (with all that art!) is hard to beat.

Did they end up using thicker paper for the SE to stop bleed through? It doesn’t say what it’s printed on on the website.

>473 anthonyfawkes: Are you asking about Folio’s Gormenghast SE ?

If so, the paper is Abbey Pure, the same as the LE. It’s a « thick » paper by Folio’s standard.

>455 wongie: There were 72 left as of a few hours ago, you should have ample opportunity. It’s still a $1,000 package, which is a lot for a book (or 3 books).

>475 What_What: Thanks, good to know I don't need to be so quick on the mark.

I don’t think I ever saw so many Lettered available, 7 went unclaimed.

66 left when I went onto the store page at 9 on the dot. 3 minutes past and its' down to 26.

>474 Nerevarine: yes I was, thanks for clarifying

And it's gone...

Must've been a cancellation, as I only now checked my emails and when I followed the link there was one in stock. After a bit of bank transferring to cushion the blow I bought it and it's out of stock again.

>477 Nerevarine: same. i can't recall the last time the lettered went to a general sale, rather than a lottery either. it looks like 2 are still available.

One of the things that's wonderful about Suntup is that they publish popular and arguably overlooked sci-fi, horror, etc. in beautiful, often fine-press editions. However, they also periodically publish true classics such as The Divine Comedy! I love the variety.

Agreed. I get the sense the negativity about Suntup has mostly disappeared given the decrease in the scalpers, etc --- now to be replaced by folks grumbling about the recent Folio Society LEs selling out to scalpers within the first 15 minutes.

>484 howtoeatrat: Agreed. It's been nice seeing less aggressive 'great price!' posts lately for the suntup secondary😂. The increasing number of presses has helped with that a bit - although some of the negative energy goes those directions now.

Overall, the small press community is great - but book scalpers have a special place in my halls of scorn.

I broke down and pre-ordered American Gods today. Then I got a shipping notice, including a tracking number. I panicked thinking I had ordered the wrong book, but that was not the case. Strange.

>487 Cardboard_killer: They started shipping today, so I think you just got lucky.

Yeah I just got my shipping confirmation* so you just timed your purchase right on the dot.

The Classic Edition is already finished and ready to ship, which is great. The other editions will take a while longer.

Anyone gotten a copy yet? My tracking says it is stuck in the USPS office in California for the past four days.

I received my Classic edition today and am pleased with it, especially the gold foil accents in the illustrations. It's an all-around beautiful production.

I also received my copy.

The illustrations with the gold foil accents are the highlight of this production for me. I also like the cloth used on the spine.

I’m a bit disappointed by the paper stock, which is quite thin (or at least thinner than usual for AEs/CEs). Though I can understand for the lenght of the book.

But I’m quite disappointed by the uneven letterpress work. I’ve only read the first few pages, but I’ve seen on numerous occasions letters that were far more black and bold than the rest.

But other than that it’s a good edition.

I have a standard edition. I've read the first 150 pages or so and haven't noticed any issues with the printing whatsoever. This is my first Suntup AE, but it is a solid value- 800+ page letterpress for $275.

>495 SDB2012: Agreed, I think it's a fabulous value. Letterpress, beautiful special illustrations, signed by the author -- definitely a keeper for me! Well, I guess, the only "question" is how good is the novel? I've heard great things about it. For me, Gaiman is either miss or hit -- Stardust being my favorite work of his.

Carrion Comfort is the newly announced title, and I think the first AE with a two-volume treatment. I am tempted to get the numbered, being a fan of its design and the overall artwork

>497 drizzled:

This isn't a novel I need, but yes, I think it's wonderful that the AE has got two volumes. It's just so unpleasant to deal with really thick, heavy volumes when reading.

>498 SF-72: Aye, I rather wish they had done that with Imajica, which originally was written as two volumes. The one volume edition is frankly too unwieldy.

>499 Shadekeep:
>502 Ragnaroekk:

It's the same with those Grim Oak Press editions where they stuff a whole trilogy into one volume. It's awful to read, no pleasure whatsoever. I'll definitely stay away from those in the future after reading Red Queen's War like that was plain and simply a strain.

Already have the Dark Harvest edition, and it's not an essential book that I need. Would buy the numbered if I already didn't own the book. Really like that design.

How is the actual story? I love Hyperion. Never read Carrion Comfort.

I ordered on the basis that I loved Drood and Hyperion…hoping it’s not just Stephen King type horror!

It is probably a good book and one that I might ordinarily buy, but I won’t pay for a book now that isn’t expected to be published for a year or more. That seems foolish to me. I wouldn’t do it for a car or a refrigerator or a pair of jeans, so why a book?

>507 jroger1:
That’s the way Suntup and many other fine press publishers work. If you want the book you have to pay and wait, otherwise you miss out.

>508 wcarter:
I know that’s the way many of them work, and it’s why I seldom buy from them. Folio and Easton are usually good enough for my purposes.

I have several Suntups from the days when there was a delay of just a few months, but I’ve been burned twice by other publishers’ promises that were never realized.

>509 jroger1: I doubt Suntup, and other small publishers have the luxury of warehousing so many books like Easton, and Folio. It is annoying to wait, but I get that they need upfront capital to make the books, and to save on storage.

>509 jroger1: May I ask what publishers' burned you? I know that sucks, but I will say that Suntup and other fine press publishers today will absolutely deliver.

>511 astropi:
One was Kronecker-Wallis, a publisher of classic science texts based somewhere in Europe. I think it is still in business, but it is now 7 years late with the books I ordered and paid for.

The other one is even older and more obscure so that I don’t remember its name. Maybe it will come to me.

Given that Suntup has years of delivering multiple complicated states under their belt now I'd feel pretty confident. There's been some delays and I recall some tiff about a vellum spine not being up to snuff but no outright failures I know of.

My American Gods arrived just in time for xmas and it's so nice in person. The foil stamping effect is so much better in life than in photos. If there's a downside it's for people who can't handle large books because this beast is even bigger than Imajica.

>513 A.Godhelm:

Oops about the sheer size. I'm glad I also ordered the numbered edition then.

I'm still waiting for my classic one, and for a while. It was unfortunately misdirected by USPS and has been travelling around for 16 days so far. When it's (hopefully) finally there, I'll need to have it forwarded, too. Hoping for the best - I'm really looking forward to this one.

>513 A.Godhelm: Is it really thicker than Imajica? I know some people said Imajica is rather unwieldy. I will say the classic American Gods is definitely thick, but I would argue it's still very readable while in bed... which is how I like to do my reading :)
Happy Holidays

>515 astropi: It’s been a long time since I held the AE of Imajica, but the numbered edition is MUCH thicker than American Gods. The AE is similar in thickness IIRC.

For my taste, I prefer slimmer volumes. But American God is still alright to read somewhat comfortably, but it’s the maximum size I’d be okay with.

Suntup is probably a $5m revenue a year operation. At this point, requiring customers to wait a year is a choice, not an unavoidable inconvenience.

The Scratch & Dent clearance sale will start Monday at 4 PM ET, for those interested.

>518 A.Nobody: what kind of discounts could be expected based on the past scratch&dent sales if I may ask?

>519 drizzled: Discounts can be up to 50% or more. Be prepared to act very quickly, however. I've bought two books in the past that had no discernible physical issues. One was a Numbered edition that was a PC copy and the other was an AE that seems completely fine. Be wary of books that are missing the slipcase. The sales page will note that fact but it is easy to overlook it in the rush to buy the book.

>518 A.Nobody: Thanks for the heads up.
>519 drizzled: Like Nobody said the discount can be substantial and there's usually a range depending on what state the book is in. Dented > no slipcase > actual faults. I only had one book with a real fault, a Moreau with partly untrimmed papers (some folding mistake?) the rest looked new. Trouble is these sales tend to be mostly over in minutes lately so you won't have much time to think about it. A tip is to browse the shipped editions from a year or so back and set some price points you'd snap up a title for, before the event.

>520 A.Nobody: >521 A.Godhelm: Thank you :)

>521 A.Godhelm: This is good advice. Have a "game plan" going in and be ready to act. Also, the editions marked as "Shipped" on the Suntup Status page would be the possibilities for inclusion in the sale.

The clues for the upcoming quarter are up :

JANUARY
We’ve published this title before, and yet we have never published this book. At least, not in its entirety.

FEBRUARY
Where the roman numeral for ten might mark the spot.

MARCH
Join us for a solitary flight above an aviary asylum.

Another clue : none are signed by the author, so they’re most likely deceased.

>524 Nerevarine: Don't have a guess for JANUARY yet, but FEBRUARY sounds like Treasure Island (X marks the spot) and MARCH is almost certainly One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

No clue about the others, but March should be One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

Good guesses for the March title.

The first book that came to mind for February was also Treasure Island, but it’d be kind of an unfortunate timing because of the recently released CTP editions. Tony has set the bar mighty high if I might add.

I think there is some consensus growing on the Facebook group about January being 'Born of Man and Woman' - the complete short stories with an off chance of Shirley Jackson's 'The Lottery' and other short stories.

Anyone pick up anything in the Scratch & Dent? I lost track of it until now, but if the listing is what was on offer then I didn't miss any wants myself.

>529 Shadekeep: I picked the numbered "Psycho" for $350

>529 Shadekeep: Nothing for me this year. I was only eyeing The Last Unicorn CE, and it wasn’t on sale.

I tend to buy the titles I’m really interested in, so I rarely ‘‘need’’ a book in the dinged sale anyway.

I’m only looking for The Last Unicorn so far (numbered if possible), because I completely missed it on release for some reason.

Edit : I’ve bought a numbered edition from the 2 or 3 previous dinged sales, but I always ended up regretting it. First of all because it was more of a pressured buy, as the FOMO is strong in such a sale. And also because I ultimately prefer my books to be in new condition as much as possible anyway. So for this sale i followed >521 A.Godhelm: advice.

>532 Ragnaroekk: I think you’re absolutely right.

I was wondering myself who forked out thousands of dollars for a dinged lettered book, without pictures or even knowing what ding(s) is(are). That’s crazy

>534 LT79: That's a good question. With larger publishers I know damaged books that are not sold tend to be pulped/recycled. I can't imagine any fine publisher would do this. I wonder if they're given out as gifts?

My problem with the higher-priced titles in these sales is that you don't know what you'll get while the price is still quite high. If one could get individual photos or descriptions of more expensive titles, that would be different.

>536 LT79: Technically Life of Pi and Animal Farm are sold out. I think there's a lettered copy of Pi for sale, but otherwise it's sold out. Damaged books are their own separate category, and if I had to guess, I would say people who wanted either Pi or Animal Farm already received a non-damaged copy :)

>538 astropi: No offence, but that’s incredibly pedantic. That user clearly meant sold out in terms of the scratch and dent sale. Life of Pi and Animal Farm are not sold out from the sale, which is what they obviously meant and wondered about.

My guess is that Suntup will let them linger in the shop until they are sold. It’s basically ‘‘free’’ money for them.

>539 Nerevarine: As I noted there is one copy of Life of Pi for sale, the lettered, so I don't see my response as pedantic but rather conveying more information.
It’s basically ‘‘free’’ money for them.
No, it's not. Anyone who's ever been in a business knows that keeping older items incurs what is known as holding costs. A business like Suntup would like to sell out of everything as quickly as possible.

>540 astropi: No, the user stated that they were, in the context of the scratch and dent sale, ‘‘a bit perplexed why everything else has sold out yet Animal Farm and Life of Pi haven't.’’

Both titles still have a lettered edition available from the sale that didn’t sell (along with a lettered Outsider). They aren’t technically sold out for the sale. You didn’t add any information.

I’m saying ‘‘basically’’ free. The selling prices of these remaining lettered editions far exceed any holding costs. So they’ll keep them available until they are sold. Once again a bit pedantic. And of course they’d prefer selling immediately, who’s arguing otherwise (other than Paul himself who previously stated that he was happy that not everything sell immediately so new customers can actually buy titles in the shop) ?

Edit : though I guess this whole back and forth is also pedantic and not a big deal. So that’ll be all from me on the matter.

>541 Nerevarine: FWIW I agree with you.

>543 LT79: I was surprised that Outlander has not sold out! A popular TV series, beautiful illustrations, beautiful letterpress printing, and the Classic Edition is very affordable... and nevertheless there are copies left. I honestly do not know. I can only assume that fans are not aware of this edition. The Classic Edition of American Gods had a very large print run of 1250 to meet demand, so I'm not entirely surprised it has not sold out. That said, I know the vast majority did sell, so it's definitely another win for Suntup. I'm also not surprised when there's a Lettered edition left, such as with Carrion Comfort -- they're beautiful editions, but incredibly expensive for most.

I've always been surprised that there is an entire alphabet of people around the word willing to spend $3k/book/month!

>545 howtoeatrat: My assumption is they simply make a lot of money, although I’m not sure on the turnover of rights holders.

I (unfortunately just now) totaled my spend last year and the suntup lettered editions are comparable, but I can’t really imagine sticking with just one publisher.

>544 astropi:

I also assume that a lot of fans just don't know about this Outlander edition. Gabaldon only did a minimal tweet, and that linked to the numbered edition. And some non-collectors were pretty shocked at the price tag of that (and didn't know about the less pricy classic edition), which might seem normal to you and me, but not to someone who is used to regular / mass market editions. I really wish she'd gone to more trouble mentioning this edition and maybe added some explanation why these editions cost more. Non-collectors usually don't have a clue about things like letterpress printing, sewn binding, acid-free paper and the like. I'm certain this edition could have sold a lot better. As it is, she didn't even mention it on her blog / her website, where fans would have been most likely to find out about it.

>544 astropi: I've been surprised a lot as well, even though I'm not that prolific a guesser. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for the publisher speculations about what editions they think will do well and why. Since Suntup has (re)introduced the non-AE/classic editions I take it as a reflection on how well they think those books would do having a 'low' priced edition in the hundreds. But then you mention American Gods where they had a big poll and email sign-up to gauge interest and it still managed to be off by some hundred books. Sure, it was a larger printing but that was motivated by the interest. And sure, there was the Gaiman debacle which may have affected interest. But it still says something about how hard it must be even for those running the business to know what will sell.
Aside from direct polling I'd be keen to know what sort of metrics they're looking at or if it's all fingerspitzengefühl.

>549 A.Godhelm:

The Broken Binding, a small British publisher (not fine press, but nice enough genre titles and subscriptions) has mentioned just how difficult it is to estimate demand, and that's for much cheaper books where being off wouldn't be quite such a big disaster. In cases where a lot of interest is likely, they also use interest lists, but much closer to the actual sale than Suntup did, and are still often off. In their case, they can sometimes arrange for second or third editions, but that wouldn't be an option for Suntup. As you say, this must be a really difficult, tricky problem to deal with.

>545 howtoeatrat: >546 ensuen: I assume that the the vast majority of anyone that can spend thousands of dollars on a book is either in the top 5%, which is an annual salary of around $300k, OR someone who makes an "average" salary and it's an edition they truly trl.

>547 SF-72: I'm sure if she had done just a bit more marketing the book could easily have sold out. It's really too bad, because I think it would have been nice to have had more books in the series published, and I know Suntup was open to the idea. Alas.

>548 LT79: >549 A.Godhelm: >550 SF-72: I do wonder about small presses such as Pegana -- I know at some point their books were a bit more affordable, although far from cheap. Then at a certain point they decided their prices were too little, and everything went up by hundreds of dollars. I'm not saying they are wrong necessarily, but it certainly closes the door for many patrons. Also, let me say that "fingerspitzengefühl" is a word not used often enough :)

>551 LT79: I agree, Suntup has done something unique. So many fine press publishers have traditionally done a work of poetry by this obscure person you've never heard of in your life, or every now and then you actually get a work you have heard of, but it's Arion Press prices. Suntup is publishing popular books as well as classics, often in letterpress, and truly fabulous prices. I think Suntup is aiming to be this generation's LEC and I'm all for it!

>552 astropi:

That's my regret, too. I do hope that Suntup still might give it a try with a smaller edition, but after this first book in the series didn't sell as expected chances are definitely smaller than they could have been. I'd definitely go for the rest of the series if they should do it.

I really don't understand Gabaldon, to be honest. Most authors would love to get an edition like this done for their books.

>553 SF-72: “I really don't understand Gabaldon, to be honest. Most authors would love to get an edition like this done for their books.”

One of our local authors here in Tulsa is Michael Wallis whose biography of Billy the Kid was published by EP. I took it to one of his receptions to see if he would be kind enough to sign it. He was shocked but delighted to see it because he didn’t know it had been republished in that form. He said his agent never told him about it, he had never authorized it, and certainly had not received any royalties from it. I don’t know if Michael’s experience is typical, but the number of copies EP can sell is a drop in the bucket for most authors.

>554 jroger1:

That's an interesting anecdote, and a bit worrying when the author didn't get any money for it - or didn't know about it, which might also be an option if he leaves things to his agent.

I see the activities of quite a few authors in social media or newsletters and those are definitely aware of special editions, often very supportive, and at times quite enthusiastic if they're nicely done. Some are also involved in giving information and / or feedback to the illustrators so they can get things right. My impression is that often the money isn't the main factor, although to authors that aren't very big earners it's certainly a nice extra, but more so that their book is appreciated enough that it gets a beautiful, special edition. And of course, these days many authors take things into their own hands and make their own special editions, often financed through Kickstarter. It is a really nice development - more beautiful books are a boon in my opinion.

But in Gabaldon's case, I had the impression that she just couldn't be bothered to even post a short note on it on her website and did a not so great job on X / Twitter by just posting a very short reply to the more expensive Suntup edition of Outlander. The people who saw that clearly didn't have a clue how to navigate the Suntup page to find the cheaper edition, and were kind of shocked by the price. She does post on her website about the series based in her books*, food, and snakes she saw. So she does spend time posting there, just not on this edition. Can't be helped, but it is a shame in this case.

* On her blog, I just stumbled across the information that Starz are doing a new TV series, Blood of My Blood, a kind of prequel to Outlander. That might prove interesting.

>554 jroger1: I've actually heard something similar from someone else. That said, the book in question was bound by EP but not actually published. I'm curious if the Billy the Kid book was printed and bound by EP, or only bound? Don't get me wrong, they do a great job with their bindings, but if they only did the binding and not the publishing that would explain why he had never heard of that. Also, I do recall hearing that EP pays people well, and in fact for every autograph someone signs the author get a good amount of money for it.

>555 SF-72: That's so unfortunate. I'd like to think most authors would be thrilled to have a beautiful fine press of their works published...

>556 astropi:
The book was “printed and bound in the USA.” It was part of a 3-volume set that also included biographies of Jesse James and Butch Cassidy.

I think he was thrilled to learn that his book was published in leather but miffed that he hadn’t been told about it. He said he would have a conversation with his agent.

>556 astropi:

One would think so, yes.

It is in fact, Born of Man and Woman - The Collection by Richard Matheson

Overall, I really enjoy all 3 states of the edition.

>560 NotSoSlimShady: It is a good looking take, and I like the inclusion of scanned material from the author as well. I might go for the Numbered Edition if it ends up available and priced nicely. Looks like a significant bite on the letterpress, going by the image of the foreword. The LeBé typefaces are a great choice, too.

The book as such would really interest me, but those illustrations literally stop me buying this edition. I know there's no arguing about taste, but these are absolutely awful in my opinion.

>562 Shadekeep: The numbered is $595.

>563 SF-72: Definitely not for everyone, but I personally think they're lovely. So colorful :)

>563 SF-72: I’ve just acquired Folio’s LE Beowulf in the sale - you’re likely aware it’s the same artist. I wasn’t too sure of the illustrations until I saw them in person. My guess is these will prove equally successful - at least to those who like them 😆

🤦🏼 Note - read all posts before posting

>563 SF-72: I'm with you on this one. I see in subsequent posts that the same artist did the Beowulf LE, to which I had the same reaction. To be fair this one probably won't have many people who feel neutral about it.

>564 astropi: Thanks, probably a bit more than I want to drop on it, but will see. May be some panic buying on the day thereof.

I actually like the art here, it has some of the funky aesthetic you'd see from art at the time when he was writing. Plus he wrote pulp and TV scripts, so those play into it too. I didn't care for the same artist on Beowulf, but here I feel it's a good alignment. Also agree that it's the kind of art unlikely to find many people in the middle ground about.

I’ve rarely seen an artist/classic edition sell so few copies on release. Only around 275 copies have been bought so far. Suntup was right to reduce the limitation on this one.

I’m debating buying an AE, but I’ll wait until the last few copies before placing an order if I decide to buy one.

>566 cottonoverwood:
>567 LBShoreBook:

Yes, this illustrator also stopped me from buying the Folio Society Beowulf. In that case, this was welcome since I already had more than one beautiful edition, two older ones from Folio Society and the one by Easton Press that's illustrated by Yoann Lossel and absolutely gorgeous. With the Matheson it's disappointing since I really would have been interested in the book as such, but not with these illustrations. And that's the second Matheson I'm not buying from Suntup because of how it's illustrated. I really enjoyed their 'I am Legend', but not the other two.

And I agree, this one is probably either love or hate and little to nothing in between.

I'm a fan of the artwork. Feels a bit Dave McKean. And it fits a weird story collection a lot better than Beowulf.

For me, when it comes to art, I enjoy a good variety. That said, when things get too abstract, I lose interest quickly. As an example, the illustration below was used by Arion Press for their Sappho --



No offense to anyone that appreciates it, but it's just too abstract for me especially when dealing with an ancient Greek poet, why not something less abstract and more Greek influenced?

>570 Nerevarine: I wonder. The production qualities suggest a price closer to $150. Cougar in place of Mohawk, offset instead of letterpress etc. Just a thought

>575 LT79: Agreed, her illustrations are very large and often colorful, as can be seen here --
https://nightingaledvs.com/review-julie-mehretu-new-museum-of-american-art/

At the end of the day, the illustrations for the AP Sappho are NOT colorful nor particularly evocative of most anything -- in my opinion. I'm happy that Suntup has avoided truly abstract art and/or livre d'Artiste and the illustrations for Suntup editions can range a gamut of styles and designs, yet at the end of the day the illustrations all tie-in to the writing.

575: The Colour Out of Space by Shelter Bookworks?

>578 LT79: Yikes! it amazes me that this edition is more expensive than the original 1927 Amazing Stories which features the original appearance of Colour Out of Space...

>581 LT79: And there's nothing wrong with discussing costs. There are always trolls lurking about trying to cause problems, just ignore them :)

Still some numbered copies remaining of the Born of Man and Woman Collection

Avast, ye scurvy dogs! Treasure Island now on offer. And it be letterpress too, blast yer hides!

If I didn't have the CTP edition this would be a must-get for me.

It's gorgeous.

I imagine I'm in the minority, but some part of me doesn't like tipped-in illustrations. I think I subconsciously just worry they'll get damaged.

>584 Shadekeep: agreed, it is unfortunate timing with the CTP edition. Luckily I’m very happy with that one.

>585 amysisson: same here, it feels fragile to me

How do we feel about the paper choice for Suntup's Numbered edition? Does it justify the price tag? I passed on the CTP edition, but I'm now curious about which one is the better product, dollar-for-dollar.

>587 a.friend: Dollar-to-dollar, the CTP numbered is the clear winner in an oversized edition with exceptionally fine binding from Ludlow that would likely be reserved for a Suntup lettered, as well as a wealth of newly-commissioned illustrations among other nice touches.

That said, I do like that printing sample from the Suntup numbered - the ultra-smooth paper that CTP used is probably the biggest criticism of that edition that I've seen, and Suntup's paper and typography choices seem to suit the story quite well.

It's a shame these two editions came so close together, since this is an exceptional effort from Suntup as well!

I have the CTP numbered and was thinking I could just make do with the Folio Society edition for the Wyeth illustrations, but I just had a flick through and noticed there are only 14 of them (printed on a glossy paper) and many of them look noticeably dark (perhaps muddy) compared to those that Suntup have previewed. I suppose that is to be expected, but it made me realise how nice these illustrations will probably look once printed giclée on paper with a little bit of texture.

>588 NathanOv: It's a shame these two editions came so close together, since this is an exceptional effort from Suntup as well!

Agreed. Under other circumstances this would be the prize edition in my collection for this title. And I do like how the printing looks on the paper they've chosen here.

I’m really torn. I love my CTP numbered - really one of the gems of my collection. But the Suntup edition addresses the my three biggest issues with the CTP one, namely the illustrations (I didn’t love the way Marc drew people - his ships etc are great), the map (I much prefer the original to the redrawn one), and the lack of footnotes. If I didn’t have CTP, I’d be champing at the bit to get a numbered edition from Suntup. I’m usually pretty strict about only having one version of any non-Tolkien book in my library. I just don’t know what to do.

>591 jsg1976: Honestly, sounds like you may need to double-dip...

>591 jsg1976: Given this has a summer 2026 publication estimate, if I were in your shoes I would wait and see how things develop (and they seem so behind in their publication schedule, who knows how likely summer 2026 is). When it's finally shipped, there are bound to be members of the Suntup Facebook group who will unload their copies for below the retail price. And Suntup often sells books in their periodic scratch-and-dent sales at much below original price.

While I like what I see in this title, I don't feel any urgency to bite on one of the editions now. I'll keep enjoying my CTP for the time being :)